Abstract Wikipedia abstractwiki https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page MediaWiki 1.46.0-wmf.21 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Abstract Wikipedia Abstract Wikipedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 4 6 2613 2608 2026-03-28T15:58:45Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Put this on ice */ Reply 2613 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) g8aw6mrwdoaud5anmhrmxzsbc9lz6rd 2614 2613 2026-03-28T16:15:36Z Kowal2701 91 /* Put this on ice */ Reply 2614 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) cl80s5w8xxkuqb0mwaeg4uaojri8t6l 2615 2614 2026-03-28T16:57:20Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Put this on ice */ Reply 2615 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) 28rvtrurtfkodyxdv5wxrkxg2u0h9ei 2616 2615 2026-03-28T17:04:30Z Kowal2701 91 /* Put this on ice */ Reply 2616 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) enc267wxwi4tvu6kyndijjpxnmgfktb 2620 2616 2026-03-28T18:50:08Z Immanuelle 1434 /* Code editing */ Reply 2620 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) izsodoth4q9cbiu7jegqg5b89d73v6i 2621 2620 2026-03-28T18:55:51Z Sannita (WMF) 48 /* Put this on ice */ Reply 2621 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ayqckevmtljste3y3sc0e5zbh1zstcj 2651 2621 2026-03-28T20:39:49Z EatingCarBatteries 1378 /* Put this on ice */ Reply 2651 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) rci28icf4q3vl5p9bo79g7x9nsw78el 2667 2651 2026-03-28T23:07:46Z ChaoticVermillion 169 /* Project namespace alias */ question 2667 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) radglj63jqk0tgkz4ywhpx57liyw1iy 2674 2667 2026-03-28T23:49:46Z Skyshifter 1473 /* Gendered languages */ new section 2674 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it uses the masculine word for singer. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to that? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) kpanr0xfonn7l7sbjvnvkghvgg7vy4t 2675 2674 2026-03-28T23:50:34Z Skyshifter 1473 /* Gendered languages */ 2675 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) 1xsc04xd3q1test8w2gxiuqbu3keks6 2678 2675 2026-03-29T00:48:32Z GrounderUK 54 /* Gendered languages */ Reply 2678 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) k303zxl4cwet9y0in7t7959at0leupk 2693 2678 2026-03-29T04:34:58Z Immanuelle 1434 /* Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? */ new section 2693 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ohfpiy1azl7x0aee8b5jw5p6vu1s7ol 2716 2693 2026-03-29T10:41:53Z Sannita (WMF) 48 /* Put this on ice */ Reply 2716 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ags10xj5kxot5cxyby9g2jbs7cjv6cu 4 14 2663 2550 2026-03-28T21:11:10Z EatingCarBatteries 1378 /* Useful links */ 2663 wikitext text/x-wiki <div style="border:1px solid grey; margin:1em 4em 2em; padding:1.5em 1em;"><!-- Don't remove this, it adds the new-thread tool to the page.--> <span "style=font-size:110%">Welcome to the '''community portal for Abstract Wikipedia'''!</span> This is the central place to discuss Abstract Wikipedia, what it is and is not working for you, and what thoughts or ideas you have. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Community Portal]] </div> == Useful links == * [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Contents|Help:Contents]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for deletion]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] ==Main page accessibility== Copying from [[User talk:Feeglgeef#Main page]]: <blockquote> All of these [changes made in [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page&diff=prev&oldid=126 this edit]] are obvious acceessibility improvements, like fixing skipped heading levels (jumping from <code>&lt;h1&gt;</code> to <code>&lt;h3&gt;</code>) and broken definition list markup (<code>; </code> without following <code>: </code>). </blockquote> [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17307-00|&#126;2026-17307-00]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17307-00|talk]]) 20:40, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree. Even if the changes also had a visual impact, I find the revert comment "please discuss stylistic changes" to go against the wiki spirit. Especially in a young wiki like this one, when being bold should be emphasized. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) c7u4sbgfvxm23hu9ma0i4js03snmeat 2718 2663 2026-03-29T11:43:51Z GrounderUK 54 /* Main page accessibility */ Reply 2718 wikitext text/x-wiki <div style="border:1px solid grey; margin:1em 4em 2em; padding:1.5em 1em;"><!-- Don't remove this, it adds the new-thread tool to the page.--> <span "style=font-size:110%">Welcome to the '''community portal for Abstract Wikipedia'''!</span> This is the central place to discuss Abstract Wikipedia, what it is and is not working for you, and what thoughts or ideas you have. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Community Portal]] </div> == Useful links == * [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Contents|Help:Contents]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for deletion]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] ==Main page accessibility== Copying from [[User talk:Feeglgeef#Main page]]: <blockquote> All of these [changes made in [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page&diff=prev&oldid=126 this edit]] are obvious acceessibility improvements, like fixing skipped heading levels (jumping from <code>&lt;h1&gt;</code> to <code>&lt;h3&gt;</code>) and broken definition list markup (<code>; </code> without following <code>: </code>). </blockquote> [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17307-00|&#126;2026-17307-00]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17307-00|talk]]) 20:40, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree. Even if the changes also had a visual impact, I find the revert comment "please discuss stylistic changes" to go against the wiki spirit. Especially in a young wiki like this one, when being bold should be emphasized. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I propose moving this topic to [[Abstract Wikipedia Talk:Main page]], but please feel free to move it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat]], if you prefer. :Please see [[Abstract Wikipedia Talk:Community portal#Purpose]] for any discussion about the misleading content of this page. This will be attended to in due course, assuming we reach some sort of consensus. :(I would offer an apology, but it’s nothing to do with me. I do consider it regrettable, however.) [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:43, 29 March 2026 (UTC) d3uvmi6uk33er92mf0mj1s6fk72x3u2 5 30 2669 2533 2026-03-28T23:17:51Z ChaoticVermillion 169 /* Purpose */ Reply 2669 wikitext text/x-wiki == Broken links == Clicking on my User account with text Shushugah leads to [[Shushugah]] which is not editable by me. I would expect that my [[meta:User:Shushugah]] would preview there by default and or be editable by me. I imagine this is a known issue, but just raising if it is unexpected. I imagine forking a new multilingual Wiki here, is more akin to Wikidata or Commons than language specific editions. [[ talk:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :You also notably cannot edit or view pages in the proper format, and talk pages are dysfunctional. Hopefully they fix it soon. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 18:20, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]: Sorry about that; [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#c-Jdforrester (WMF)-20260319183400-Feeglgeef-20260319180500|I posted about the bug on the project chat]]. For the scope of the wiki, see [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:37, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] [[User:Shushugah]] now works correctly and so do ''new'' signatures work as expected. ::Is there a useful place for me to list different bugs I encounter? I can imagine many bugs will fix themselves as the configurations are updated. No stress and lots of excitement for this launch! [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:41, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would probably be best. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Абстрактная защита абстрактной заглавной от абстрактных вандалов == Здраствуйте! Может закрыть заглавную страницу от посторонних лиц? А то её сейчас легко могут отвандалить. — [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17300-49|&#126;2026-17300-49]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17300-49|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:~2026-17300-49|~2026-17300-49]]: [en] Also being discussed at [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Main page#c-HartOve-20260319191200-Shushugah-20260319173600]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose == I’m not sure exactly what this page is for but I don’t think we want it to be “…the central place to discuss Abstract Wikipedia, what it is and is not working for you, and what thoughts or ideas you have.” I think general and project discussion should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat]]. If we have any need for something like the [[f:Wikifunctions:Community_portal#Tasks_listed_by_users|Tasks listed by users]] on Wikifunctions, I suggest we have a separate page just for that. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:24, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Looking at [[en:WP:Community portal]], I think the community portal should just have useful links for new users to follow. I think anything akin to the Tasks listed by users section on [[f:WF:Community portal]] is better served on a different page. (I also agree that it should be on a different page on Wikifunctions as well, but that's for a different project.) [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:17, 28 March 2026 (UTC) 68402tpd0r4zpw6pyvbuc4x59o7zqpg 2692 2669 2026-03-29T03:50:31Z Immanuelle 1434 /* Purpose */ Reply 2692 wikitext text/x-wiki == Broken links == Clicking on my User account with text Shushugah leads to [[Shushugah]] which is not editable by me. I would expect that my [[meta:User:Shushugah]] would preview there by default and or be editable by me. I imagine this is a known issue, but just raising if it is unexpected. I imagine forking a new multilingual Wiki here, is more akin to Wikidata or Commons than language specific editions. [[ talk:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :You also notably cannot edit or view pages in the proper format, and talk pages are dysfunctional. Hopefully they fix it soon. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 18:20, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]: Sorry about that; [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#c-Jdforrester (WMF)-20260319183400-Feeglgeef-20260319180500|I posted about the bug on the project chat]]. For the scope of the wiki, see [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:37, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] [[User:Shushugah]] now works correctly and so do ''new'' signatures work as expected. ::Is there a useful place for me to list different bugs I encounter? I can imagine many bugs will fix themselves as the configurations are updated. No stress and lots of excitement for this launch! [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:41, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would probably be best. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Абстрактная защита абстрактной заглавной от абстрактных вандалов == Здраствуйте! Может закрыть заглавную страницу от посторонних лиц? А то её сейчас легко могут отвандалить. — [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17300-49|&#126;2026-17300-49]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17300-49|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:~2026-17300-49|~2026-17300-49]]: [en] Also being discussed at [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Main page#c-HartOve-20260319191200-Shushugah-20260319173600]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose == I’m not sure exactly what this page is for but I don’t think we want it to be “…the central place to discuss Abstract Wikipedia, what it is and is not working for you, and what thoughts or ideas you have.” I think general and project discussion should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat]]. If we have any need for something like the [[f:Wikifunctions:Community_portal#Tasks_listed_by_users|Tasks listed by users]] on Wikifunctions, I suggest we have a separate page just for that. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:24, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Looking at [[en:WP:Community portal]], I think the community portal should just have useful links for new users to follow. I think anything akin to the Tasks listed by users section on [[f:WF:Community portal]] is better served on a different page. (I also agree that it should be on a different page on Wikifunctions as well, but that's for a different project.) [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:17, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah this is a talk page, not a project chat page [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:50, 29 March 2026 (UTC) m5gdj7zr2yu79a3vx3ybzsdg37z0soo 2719 2692 2026-03-29T11:53:29Z GrounderUK 54 /* Purpose */ Reply 2719 wikitext text/x-wiki == Broken links == Clicking on my User account with text Shushugah leads to [[Shushugah]] which is not editable by me. I would expect that my [[meta:User:Shushugah]] would preview there by default and or be editable by me. I imagine this is a known issue, but just raising if it is unexpected. I imagine forking a new multilingual Wiki here, is more akin to Wikidata or Commons than language specific editions. [[ talk:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :You also notably cannot edit or view pages in the proper format, and talk pages are dysfunctional. Hopefully they fix it soon. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 18:20, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]: Sorry about that; [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#c-Jdforrester (WMF)-20260319183400-Feeglgeef-20260319180500|I posted about the bug on the project chat]]. For the scope of the wiki, see [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:37, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] [[User:Shushugah]] now works correctly and so do ''new'' signatures work as expected. ::Is there a useful place for me to list different bugs I encounter? I can imagine many bugs will fix themselves as the configurations are updated. No stress and lots of excitement for this launch! [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:41, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]]: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would probably be best. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Абстрактная защита абстрактной заглавной от абстрактных вандалов == Здраствуйте! Может закрыть заглавную страницу от посторонних лиц? А то её сейчас легко могут отвандалить. — [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17300-49|&#126;2026-17300-49]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17300-49|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:~2026-17300-49|~2026-17300-49]]: [en] Also being discussed at [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Main page#c-HartOve-20260319191200-Shushugah-20260319173600]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose == I’m not sure exactly what this page is for but I don’t think we want it to be “…the central place to discuss Abstract Wikipedia, what it is and is not working for you, and what thoughts or ideas you have.” I think general and project discussion should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat]]. If we have any need for something like the [[f:Wikifunctions:Community_portal#Tasks_listed_by_users|Tasks listed by users]] on Wikifunctions, I suggest we have a separate page just for that. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:24, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Looking at [[en:WP:Community portal]], I think the community portal should just have useful links for new users to follow. I think anything akin to the Tasks listed by users section on [[f:WF:Community portal]] is better served on a different page. (I also agree that it should be on a different page on Wikifunctions as well, but that's for a different project.) [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:17, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah this is a talk page, not a project chat page [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:50, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia Talk:Community portal|This page]] is a Talk page about a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Community portal|Project page]] that suggests it is a project-chat page. [[Abstract Wikipedia Talk:Community portal#Purpose|This topic]] is about agreeing the purpose of the Project page so that it can re-direct project chat to the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat page]], if that is the consensus. Sorry for the confusion. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) bka4vq8bkiawpvfzfzkzml5w8qxzuv0 12 41 2665 2534 2026-03-28T21:42:04Z Mdktb 971 +Preparation for translation 2665 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <translate> In Abstract Wikipedia you can only create articles about topics that already have a Wikidata item. If the topic does not already exist on Wikidata that you can tell by [[<tvar name="1">d:special:search</tvar>|search]], follow [[<tvar name="2">d:Special:MyLanguage/help:items#Creating a new item</tvar>|this help page]] to make a new item for it. == Steps == In order to create an article, you can go to [[<tvar name="1">Special:CreateAbstract</tvar>|Create a New Abstract Article]]. </translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-1.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Select a topic</translate>]] <translate>Type to select a topic, and click on create.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-2.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Empty abstract article</translate>]] <translate>You will get to a new screen. On the right hand side you see the preview in the selected language, on the left hand side the abstract content.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-3.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Click on the plus sign to add a fragment.</translate>]] <translate>Click on the plus button in the left panel to add a new fragment. For now, we are adding an empty fragment.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-4.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>An empty fragment</translate>]] <translate>This will look like this, showing a function call without a function selected yet. We click on the caron next to the red "Select Function" text.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-5.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Function selector open</translate>]] <translate>That will open the function selector.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-6.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Selecting a function</translate>]] <translate>We select a function. It has to be a function that exists on Wikifunctions, and at this point, it has to return an HTML fragment. In this example we choose the function "string to HTML fragment", as this allows us to enter a string, or choose a function that creates a string.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-7.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Selected the "string to HTML fragment" function</translate>]] <translate>We have now selected a function. We get fields for the arguments. Instead of typing a string, we want to add another function,</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-8.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Change the mode of the argument</translate>]] <translate>In order to do so, we change the mode of the argument named string by clicking on the three dots next to string. This allows us to change from the current mode, literal, to a function call.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-9.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Select the inner function</translate>]] <translate>Here we can now select a function that returns a string.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-10.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Choose a function returning a string</translate>]] <translate>We select the function "Article-less instantiating fragment" -- a function that creates sentences such as "Paris is a city."</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-10.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Arguments for article-less instantiating fragment function</translate>]] <translate>Now we see the arguments for this function. We also get automatically fitting arguments filled in. This leads to the sentence "Paris is a Paris.", because the arguments "entity" and "class" both get prefilled with the item we are writing about.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-11.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Changing the mode on the "class" argument</translate>]] <translate>We need to change the mode on the "class" argument from the automatically filled value (an Argument reference) to a literal.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-12.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Changed the mode of "class" to literal.</translate>]] <translate>This gives us now a field to select a Wikidata item for the value of the "class" argument.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-13.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Selecting city for the class argument</translate>]] <translate>We select the "city" item for the class argument.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-14.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>The first sentence is created.</translate>]] <translate> Once this is selected, the first sentence of the article should be ready. We can now click on publish and have a first version of the article available. Now you can click edit to add more. == This is far too complicated! == Yes, agreed. There are two ways to make this easier:</translate> * <translate>improve the UX</translate> * <translate>improve the catalogue of functions</translate> <translate> Whereas the development team at the Wikimedia Foundation will be focused on the first approach (and will always appreciate UX ideas), the community can work on a more comprehensive and easy to use catalogue of functions in Wikifunctions. Here we see that naming the functions and arguments is important, and that we probably want to avoid too many functions which turn one type in another in the above flow. But yes, most importantly, Abstract Wikipedia is currently in an early public Beta, and it is currently difficult to create and edit articles. We all will need to work together to improve that. If you have ideas for new functions, please suggest them at [[<tvar name="1">Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions</tvar>|Suggested functions]]. == See also == </translate> * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] [[category:help{{#translation:}}]] qzc0frvj6ukxeia1uteoqfoxtlqg0df 0 225 2636 1859 2026-03-28T20:20:02Z AyomideObe 1467 Replaced content with "{ "qid": "Q30", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89" ] } } }" 2636 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q30", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89" ] } } } ipgeln26d7t5saiwcu86lk4c5di42ec 2641 2636 2026-03-28T20:23:13Z Tenshi Hinanawi 9 Reverted 1 edit by [[Special:Contributions/AyomideObe|AyomideObe]] ([[User talk:AyomideObe|talk]]) (TwinkleGlobal) 2641 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q30", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32123", "Z32123K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32234", "Z32234K1": [ "Z1", { "Z1K1": 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text/plain { "qid": "Q865", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z14396", "Z14396K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q6256" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q27231" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q1867" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q5119" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } 33pho1v1p6x0f9v19x1queyobqzqv7g 4 723 2717 2588 2026-03-29T11:21:58Z GrounderUK 54 /* Link to Wikidata */ new section 2717 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Suggested functions]] Content that can be added to abstract articles is limited by which functions exist on [[f:WF:Main page|Wikifunctions]]. If you're making an article that needs a new type of sentence, either [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateObject&zid=Z8 create it on Wikifunctions], or suggest it here to get input from others. Due to different grammar rules in different languages it may be beneficial to discuss new functions here first, as not all generic concepts work across all languages. To suggest a function, create a section below (new sections go at the bottom), and provide an example of its use. Make sure to sign your suggestions using <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>. == Intro sentence for species articles == I imagine Abstract Wiki will be largely used for taxa articles, similar to that of Lsjbot. For example, for a species:</br> '''''Bursadella dichroalis''''' is a '''moth''' in the '''family''' '''Immidae'''.</br> '''''article name''''' is a(n) '''X''' in the '''Y''' '''Z''' </br></br> [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 19:18, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Furthermore, there could be more information like:</br>It was described in '''1880''' :</br> [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 19:21, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps a useful step towards that would be to make a function that takes a Wikidata reference and outputs a label, with the label of the more general concept linked through 'instance of' or 'subclass of' as an adjective, plus determiner for languages that use them: the family Immidae, the dog Rin Tin Tin, the planet Mars. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:40, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::I started with a simple helper function [[f:Z32852]], which outputs something along the lines of "Homo sapiens is a species" or "Canis is a genus" The implementation isn't connected yet with no testcases, because I don't have functioneer (am currently requesting). ::I'm not sure yet how to do the whole instance/subclass of and adding determiners, are there functions that already would do that? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:42, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Can we not just fetch the taxonomic information from WD? I guess you'd want to manually set it sometimes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:54, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::Agreed. I think it wwould be really useful to have something like '''Wikidata ID''' is a '''[function getting the common name of the correct taxon rank]''' in the family '''[function getting the family name]''' ::However, figuring out the expected common name of the right taxon rank above is not easy, as going from a moth species to [[d:Q56315380]] seems non-trivial. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:16, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Link to Wikidata == We have [[f:Z32428]] for internal (Abstract Wikipedia) links and [[f:Z31697]] for Wikipedia links (article title). Other link functions are available! So far, though, I don’t think we have a function to generate a link to a Wikidata item, and I’m not sure how it should by styled so as to avoid confusion with an Abstract Wikipedia link. Note: we have no architecture for injecting a link into a sentence fragment, so a link like this would need to be a standalone HTML fragment and should be reusable within many “sentence fragment” functions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:21, 29 March 2026 (UTC) f5vtcpxir1bv60xej9qtcnyns0rx83v 0 726 2617 2584 2026-03-28T17:10:14Z Immanuelle 1434 2617 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q687168", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z14396", "Z14396K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q845945" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q17" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } } ] } } } pmq3k2e0bhoalb5co8w0poxdvarkp88 0 738 2637 2596 2026-03-28T20:20:24Z AyomideObe 1467 2637 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q23809", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89" ] } } } ofl3t9ktpzfrtalrdmpvf856euefka9 2642 2637 2026-03-28T20:23:15Z Tenshi Hinanawi 9 Reverted 1 edit by [[Special:Contributions/AyomideObe|AyomideObe]] ([[User 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