Abstract Wikipedia abstractwiki https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page MediaWiki 1.46.0-wmf.21 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Abstract Wikipedia Abstract Wikipedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 4 2 2863 2592 2026-03-31T01:35:15Z Dot.py 917 Added article count, revert if needed 2863 wikitext text/x-wiki <templatestyles src="Template:Main_page/styles.css" /> <div id="mainpage_header" class="mainpage_header"> [[File:Wikipedia-logo.svg|100px|alt=A globe with letters on it]] <h1>Welcome to Abstract Wikipedia</h1> <p>Abstract Wikipedia is a [[foundation:Policy:Terms of Use|free]] project of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Introduction|abstract articles]] that anyone can edit.</p> <div id="articlecount"><ul><li>[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}}]] active editors</li> <li>[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]] articles in [[Q1860|English]]</li></ul></div></div> <div id="audiences" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Wikipedia "W" Rounded Black.svg|20px|middle|link=]]</span>Welcome!</h3> <div id="mainpage-welcome" title="Welcome" class="items"> '''Abstract Wikipedia''' is a Wikimedia project for everyone to collaboratively create and maintain a collection of language-independent articles, based on functions from [[:f:|Wikifunctions]] and data from [[:d:|Wikidata]], to help Wikimedia projects to expand their article base. </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon chem.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Get started</h3> <div id="mainpage-start" title="Get started" class="items"> * [[Special:CreateAbstract|Create an article]] </div> </div> </div> <div id="misc-news" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon ongoingConversation-rtl.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Learn and contribute</h3> <div id=mainpage-help-contribute" title="Support and Contributing" class="items"> ; Learn about Abstract Wikipedia * [[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Introduction to Abstract Wikipedia]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:FAQ|FAQ]] * [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Glossary|Wikifunctions Glossary]] ; Contribute to other areas * [[metawiki:Abstract Wikipedia#Participate|Get involved as a translator]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions|Suggest a function]] ; Get help * Questions? Ask at the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] or in our [https://t.me/Wikifunctions Telegram/IRC channel]! * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Report a technical problem]] </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Echo (Notifications) megaphone.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>News</h3> <div id="mainpage-news" title="News" class="items">{{Main page/News}}</div> </div> </div> <div id="many-examples" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon listBullet-ltr.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Featured abstract articles</h3> <div id=mainpage-abstract-articles" title="Abstract articles" class="items"> Our first abstract articles, coming soon! </div> </div> </div> <div id="sister" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <div id="mainpage-sister" title="Sister projects" class="items" style="border-top:unset;"> <div class="mainpage-sister-title"> <div style="width:45px; margin:0 auto; margin-top: -40px;">[[File:Wikimedia-logo.svg|45px|center|link=]]</div> <div class="plainlinks" style="color:var(--color-subtle, #54595d); font-size:120%; text-align:center; padding-top:10px;">Abstract Wikipedia is part of the non-profit, multilingual, free-content [[foundationsite:|Wikimedia]] family.</div> </div> <div class="mainpage-sister-projects"> *[[File:Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[w:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikipedia}}]]</span><br>Encyclopedia</div> *[[File:Wikidata-logo.svg|40x40px|link=d:|alt=]]<div><span>[[d:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikidata}}]]</span><br>Knowledge base</div> *[[File:Wikifunctions-logo.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[f:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikifunctions}}]]</span><br>Library of functions</div> *[[File:Commons-logo.svg|40x40px|link=c:|alt=]]<div><span>[[c:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-commons}}]]</span><br>Media repository</div> *[[File:Wiktionary-logo.svg|40x40px|link=wikt:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikt:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wiktionary}}]]</span><br>Dictionary and thesaurus</div> *[[File:Wikibooks-logo.svg|40x40px|link=b:|alt=]]<div><span>[[b:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikibooks}}]]</span><br>Textbooks and manuals</div> *[[File:Wikinews-logo.svg|40x40px|link=n:|alt=]]<div><span>[[n:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikinews}}]]</span><br>News</div> *[[File:Wikiquote-logo.svg|40x40px|link=q:|alt=]]<div><span>[[q:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiquote}}]]</span><br>Collection of quotations</div> *[[File:Wikisource-logo.svg|40x40px|link=s:|alt=]]<div><span>[[s:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikisource}}]]</span><br>Library</div> *[[File:Wikiversity logo 2017.svg|40x40px|link=v:|alt=]]<div><span>[[v:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiversity}}]]</span><br>Learning resources</div> *[[File:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-icon.svg|40x40px|link=voy:|alt=]]<div><span>[[voy:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikivoyage}}]]</span><br>Travel guides</div> *[[File:Wikispecies-logo.svg|40x40px|link=species:|alt=]]<div><span>[[species:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-species}}]]</span><br>Directory of species</div> *[[File:Incubator-logo.svg|40x40px|link=incubator:|alt=]]<div><span>[[incubator:|{{int:Project-localized-name-incubatorwiki}}]]</span><br>New language versions</div> *[[File:Wikimedia Community Logo.svg|40x40px|link=m:|alt=]]<div><span>[[m:|{{int:Project-localized-name-metawiki}}]]</span><br>Project coordination</div> *[[File:MediaWiki-2020-icon.svg|40x40px|link=mw:|alt=]]<div><span>[[mw:|{{int:Project-localized-name-mediawikiwiki}}]]</span><br>MediaWiki development</div> *[[File:Wikimania.svg|40x40px|link=wikimania:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikimania:|{{int:Project-localized-name-wikimaniawiki}}]]</span><br>Event coordination</div> </div> </div> </div> </div> __NOEDITSECTION__ __NOTOC__ bqrfhsg4avirq406isqkwzr1rbv66v2 2867 2863 2026-03-31T02:36:43Z ChaoticVermillion 169 i feel like this is better wording 2867 wikitext text/x-wiki <templatestyles src="Template:Main_page/styles.css" /> <div id="mainpage_header" class="mainpage_header"> [[File:Wikipedia-logo.svg|100px|alt=A globe with letters on it]] <h1>Welcome to Abstract Wikipedia</h1> <p>Abstract Wikipedia is a [[foundation:Policy:Terms of Use|free]] project of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Introduction|abstract articles]] that anyone can edit.</p> <div id="articlecount"><ul><li>[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}}]] active editors</li> <li>[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]] abstract articles</li></ul></div></div> <div id="audiences" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Wikipedia "W" Rounded Black.svg|20px|middle|link=]]</span>Welcome!</h3> <div id="mainpage-welcome" title="Welcome" class="items"> '''Abstract Wikipedia''' is a Wikimedia project for everyone to collaboratively create and maintain a collection of language-independent articles, based on functions from [[:f:|Wikifunctions]] and data from [[:d:|Wikidata]], to help Wikimedia projects to expand their article base. </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon chem.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Get started</h3> <div id="mainpage-start" title="Get started" class="items"> * [[Special:CreateAbstract|Create an article]] </div> </div> </div> <div id="misc-news" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon ongoingConversation-rtl.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Learn and contribute</h3> <div id=mainpage-help-contribute" title="Support and Contributing" class="items"> ; Learn about Abstract Wikipedia * [[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Introduction to Abstract Wikipedia]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:FAQ|FAQ]] * [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Glossary|Wikifunctions Glossary]] ; Contribute to other areas * [[metawiki:Abstract Wikipedia#Participate|Get involved as a translator]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions|Suggest a function]] ; Get help * Questions? Ask at the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] or in our [https://t.me/Wikifunctions Telegram/IRC channel]! * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Report a technical problem]] </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Echo (Notifications) megaphone.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>News</h3> <div id="mainpage-news" title="News" class="items">{{Main page/News}}</div> </div> </div> <div id="many-examples" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon listBullet-ltr.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Featured abstract articles</h3> <div id=mainpage-abstract-articles" title="Abstract articles" class="items"> Our first abstract articles, coming soon! </div> </div> </div> <div id="sister" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <div id="mainpage-sister" title="Sister projects" class="items" style="border-top:unset;"> <div class="mainpage-sister-title"> <div style="width:45px; margin:0 auto; margin-top: -40px;">[[File:Wikimedia-logo.svg|45px|center|link=]]</div> <div class="plainlinks" style="color:var(--color-subtle, #54595d); font-size:120%; text-align:center; padding-top:10px;">Abstract Wikipedia is part of the non-profit, multilingual, free-content [[foundationsite:|Wikimedia]] family.</div> </div> <div class="mainpage-sister-projects"> *[[File:Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[w:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikipedia}}]]</span><br>Encyclopedia</div> *[[File:Wikidata-logo.svg|40x40px|link=d:|alt=]]<div><span>[[d:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikidata}}]]</span><br>Knowledge base</div> *[[File:Wikifunctions-logo.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[f:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikifunctions}}]]</span><br>Library of functions</div> *[[File:Commons-logo.svg|40x40px|link=c:|alt=]]<div><span>[[c:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-commons}}]]</span><br>Media repository</div> *[[File:Wiktionary-logo.svg|40x40px|link=wikt:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikt:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wiktionary}}]]</span><br>Dictionary and thesaurus</div> *[[File:Wikibooks-logo.svg|40x40px|link=b:|alt=]]<div><span>[[b:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikibooks}}]]</span><br>Textbooks and manuals</div> *[[File:Wikinews-logo.svg|40x40px|link=n:|alt=]]<div><span>[[n:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikinews}}]]</span><br>News</div> *[[File:Wikiquote-logo.svg|40x40px|link=q:|alt=]]<div><span>[[q:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiquote}}]]</span><br>Collection of quotations</div> *[[File:Wikisource-logo.svg|40x40px|link=s:|alt=]]<div><span>[[s:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikisource}}]]</span><br>Library</div> *[[File:Wikiversity logo 2017.svg|40x40px|link=v:|alt=]]<div><span>[[v:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiversity}}]]</span><br>Learning resources</div> *[[File:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-icon.svg|40x40px|link=voy:|alt=]]<div><span>[[voy:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikivoyage}}]]</span><br>Travel guides</div> *[[File:Wikispecies-logo.svg|40x40px|link=species:|alt=]]<div><span>[[species:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-species}}]]</span><br>Directory of species</div> *[[File:Incubator-logo.svg|40x40px|link=incubator:|alt=]]<div><span>[[incubator:|{{int:Project-localized-name-incubatorwiki}}]]</span><br>New language versions</div> *[[File:Wikimedia Community Logo.svg|40x40px|link=m:|alt=]]<div><span>[[m:|{{int:Project-localized-name-metawiki}}]]</span><br>Project coordination</div> *[[File:MediaWiki-2020-icon.svg|40x40px|link=mw:|alt=]]<div><span>[[mw:|{{int:Project-localized-name-mediawikiwiki}}]]</span><br>MediaWiki development</div> *[[File:Wikimania.svg|40x40px|link=wikimania:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikimania:|{{int:Project-localized-name-wikimaniawiki}}]]</span><br>Event coordination</div> </div> </div> </div> </div> __NOEDITSECTION__ __NOTOC__ 93hbotrqx9stnzkm2us84u2t1qrnl2i 10 3 2862 2450 2026-03-31T01:29:06Z Dot.py 917 Added from [[en:Wikipedia:Main Page/styles.css]] in preparation to add the article count to the main page 2862 sanitized-css text/css /*[[Category:template CSS]] Base header styles */ .mainpage_header { display: flex; flex-direction: column; align-items: center; padding: 2rem 1rem; background: linear-gradient(to bottom, #f8f9fa, #ffffff); margin-bottom: 1rem; border: none; } .mainpage_header .main-title { font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, sans-serif; font-size: 2.2rem; font-weight: bold; color: #202122; margin-bottom: 0.5rem; text-align: center; } /* Article count, copied from enwiki main page */ #articlecount { font-size: 85%; } #articlecount > ul { margin: 0; padding: 0; } #articlecount > ul > li { margin: 0; display: inline; } #articlecount > ul > li::after { content: " · "; font-weight: bold; } #articlecount > ul > li:last-child::after { content: ""; } /* Row and box layout */ .mainpage_row { display: flex; flex-flow: row wrap; justify-content: space-between; gap: 1rem; padding: 0 1rem; margin: 0 0 1.2rem 0; } .mainpage_box { flex: 1; min-width: 280px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-radius: 8px; padding: 1.2rem; background: #ffffff; box-shadow: 0 2px 6px rgba(0,0,0,0.05); box-sizing: border-box; } /* Box headers */ .mainpage_box h3 { display: flex; align-items: center; gap: 0.5rem; padding: 0; color: #202122; font-size: 1.5rem; } .mainpage_box h3:not(.tpl-vheadanchor-heading) { padding-left: 0; } .mainpage_box h3 .header_icon { margin-right: 0.5rem; margin-top: 0; } .mainpage_box .items { padding-top: calc(1rem + 1px); } /* Get started and function examples sections */ #many-examples ul { display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap; gap: 0.5rem; justify-content: center; padding: 0; margin: 0; list-style: none; } #many-examples li { display: inline-block; padding: 0.5rem 1rem; background: #f8f9fa; border-radius: 4px; width: 100%; transition: background 0.2s ease; } #many-examples li:hover { background: #eaecf0; } #many-examples li::before { content: none; } /* Sister projects section */ .mainpage-sister-projects { padding: 1rem 0; } .mainpage-sister-projects ul { display: grid; grid-template-columns: repeat(auto-fill, minmax(200px, 1fr)); gap: 1rem; margin: 0; padding: 0; list-style: none; } .mainpage-sister-projects li { display: flex; align-items: center; gap: 0.75rem; padding: 0.75rem; background: #f8f9fa; border-radius: 6px; transition: background 0.2s ease; } .mainpage-sister-projects li:hover { background: #eaecf0; } .mainpage-sister-projects div { margin: 0 0.5rem; color: #404244; } .mainpage-sister-projects span { color: #202122; font-weight: 600; } /* Small content box styles */ .mainpage_boxcontents_small { font-size: 0.9375rem; } /* Sister projects title section */ .mainpage-sister-title { margin: 1.5rem auto; padding-top: 1rem; border-top: 3px double #a2a9b1; color: #202122; line-height: 1.4; width: 80%; text-align: center; } /* Language box styles */ .mw-pt-languages { background: none; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-radius: 8px; box-shadow: 0 2px 4px rgba(0,0,0,0.08); width: auto; margin: 1rem 0; } .mw-pt-languages-label { background: none; border-right: none; padding: 0.5rem 1rem; } /* Responsive adjustments */ @media screen and (max-width: 768px) { .mainpage-sister-projects span { min-width: 40px; } .mainpage_row { flex-direction: column; padding: 0; } .mainpage_box { width: 100%; min-width: unset; margin: 0.5rem 0; } .mainpage_header h1 { font-size: 2rem; } .thumb { float: none; margin: 1rem auto; } .thumbinner { margin: 0 auto; } #bottom-paragraphs { visibility: hidden; display: none; } } li::marker { color: #4f9160; } 7akxfp3webh3bhivtvkyroh1o8kp6rh 2864 2862 2026-03-31T01:35:59Z Dot.py 917 Huh, #articlecount > ul > li::after didn't seem to work with the li::marker 2864 sanitized-css text/css /*[[Category:template CSS]] Base header styles */ .mainpage_header { display: flex; flex-direction: column; align-items: center; padding: 2rem 1rem; background: linear-gradient(to bottom, #f8f9fa, #ffffff); margin-bottom: 1rem; border: none; } .mainpage_header .main-title { font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, sans-serif; font-size: 2.2rem; font-weight: bold; color: #202122; margin-bottom: 0.5rem; text-align: center; } /* Article count, copied from enwiki main page */ #articlecount { font-size: 85%; } #articlecount > ul { margin: 0; padding: 0; } #articlecount > ul > li { margin: 0; display: inline; } #articlecount > ul > li::after { content: " · "; font-weight: bold; color: #4f9160 } #articlecount > ul > li:last-child::after { content: ""; } /* Row and box layout */ .mainpage_row { display: flex; flex-flow: row wrap; justify-content: space-between; gap: 1rem; padding: 0 1rem; margin: 0 0 1.2rem 0; } .mainpage_box { flex: 1; min-width: 280px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-radius: 8px; padding: 1.2rem; background: #ffffff; box-shadow: 0 2px 6px rgba(0,0,0,0.05); box-sizing: border-box; } /* Box headers */ .mainpage_box h3 { display: flex; align-items: center; gap: 0.5rem; padding: 0; color: #202122; font-size: 1.5rem; } .mainpage_box h3:not(.tpl-vheadanchor-heading) { padding-left: 0; } .mainpage_box h3 .header_icon { margin-right: 0.5rem; margin-top: 0; } .mainpage_box .items { padding-top: calc(1rem + 1px); } /* Get started and function examples sections */ #many-examples ul { display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap; gap: 0.5rem; justify-content: center; padding: 0; margin: 0; list-style: none; } #many-examples li { display: inline-block; padding: 0.5rem 1rem; background: #f8f9fa; border-radius: 4px; width: 100%; transition: background 0.2s ease; } #many-examples li:hover { background: #eaecf0; } #many-examples li::before { content: none; } /* Sister projects section */ .mainpage-sister-projects { padding: 1rem 0; } .mainpage-sister-projects ul { display: grid; grid-template-columns: repeat(auto-fill, minmax(200px, 1fr)); gap: 1rem; margin: 0; padding: 0; list-style: none; } .mainpage-sister-projects li { display: flex; align-items: center; gap: 0.75rem; padding: 0.75rem; background: #f8f9fa; border-radius: 6px; transition: background 0.2s ease; } .mainpage-sister-projects li:hover { background: #eaecf0; } .mainpage-sister-projects div { margin: 0 0.5rem; color: #404244; } .mainpage-sister-projects span { color: #202122; font-weight: 600; } /* Small content box styles */ .mainpage_boxcontents_small { font-size: 0.9375rem; } /* Sister projects title section */ .mainpage-sister-title { margin: 1.5rem auto; padding-top: 1rem; border-top: 3px double #a2a9b1; color: #202122; line-height: 1.4; width: 80%; text-align: center; } /* Language box styles */ .mw-pt-languages { background: none; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-radius: 8px; box-shadow: 0 2px 4px rgba(0,0,0,0.08); width: auto; margin: 1rem 0; } .mw-pt-languages-label { background: none; border-right: none; padding: 0.5rem 1rem; } /* Responsive adjustments */ @media screen and (max-width: 768px) { .mainpage-sister-projects span { min-width: 40px; } .mainpage_row { flex-direction: column; padding: 0; } .mainpage_box { width: 100%; min-width: unset; margin: 0.5rem 0; } .mainpage_header h1 { font-size: 2rem; } .thumb { float: none; margin: 1rem auto; } .thumbinner { margin: 0 auto; } #bottom-paragraphs { visibility: hidden; display: none; } } li::marker { color: #4f9160; } 6r5y5qoahuo8z6bmoyeq2ie9y3hrq9o 2865 2864 2026-03-31T01:37:44Z Dot.py 917 Whoops! Didn't center, maybe this will work? 2865 sanitized-css text/css /*[[Category:template CSS]] Base header styles */ .mainpage_header { display: flex; flex-direction: column; align-items: center; padding: 2rem 1rem; background: linear-gradient(to bottom, #f8f9fa, #ffffff); margin-bottom: 1rem; border: none; } .mainpage_header .main-title { font-family: system-ui, -apple-system, sans-serif; font-size: 2.2rem; font-weight: bold; color: #202122; margin-bottom: 0.5rem; text-align: center; } /* Article count, copied from enwiki main page */ #articlecount { font-size: 85%; align-items: center; } #articlecount > ul { margin: 0; padding: 0; } #articlecount > ul > li { margin: 0; display: inline; } #articlecount > ul > li::after { content: " · "; font-weight: bold; color: #4f9160 } #articlecount > ul > li:last-child::after { content: ""; } /* Row and box layout */ .mainpage_row { display: flex; flex-flow: row wrap; justify-content: space-between; gap: 1rem; padding: 0 1rem; margin: 0 0 1.2rem 0; } .mainpage_box { flex: 1; min-width: 280px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-radius: 8px; padding: 1.2rem; background: #ffffff; box-shadow: 0 2px 6px rgba(0,0,0,0.05); box-sizing: border-box; } /* Box headers */ .mainpage_box h3 { display: flex; align-items: center; gap: 0.5rem; padding: 0; color: #202122; font-size: 1.5rem; } .mainpage_box h3:not(.tpl-vheadanchor-heading) { padding-left: 0; } .mainpage_box h3 .header_icon { margin-right: 0.5rem; margin-top: 0; } .mainpage_box .items { padding-top: calc(1rem + 1px); } /* Get started and function examples sections */ #many-examples ul { display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap; gap: 0.5rem; justify-content: center; padding: 0; margin: 0; list-style: none; } #many-examples li { display: inline-block; padding: 0.5rem 1rem; background: #f8f9fa; border-radius: 4px; width: 100%; transition: background 0.2s ease; } #many-examples li:hover { background: #eaecf0; } #many-examples li::before { content: none; } /* Sister projects section */ .mainpage-sister-projects { padding: 1rem 0; } .mainpage-sister-projects ul { display: grid; grid-template-columns: repeat(auto-fill, minmax(200px, 1fr)); gap: 1rem; margin: 0; padding: 0; list-style: none; } .mainpage-sister-projects li { display: flex; align-items: center; gap: 0.75rem; padding: 0.75rem; background: #f8f9fa; border-radius: 6px; transition: background 0.2s ease; } .mainpage-sister-projects li:hover { background: #eaecf0; } .mainpage-sister-projects div { margin: 0 0.5rem; color: #404244; } .mainpage-sister-projects span { color: #202122; font-weight: 600; } /* Small content box styles */ .mainpage_boxcontents_small { font-size: 0.9375rem; } /* Sister projects title section */ .mainpage-sister-title { margin: 1.5rem auto; padding-top: 1rem; border-top: 3px double #a2a9b1; color: #202122; line-height: 1.4; width: 80%; text-align: center; } /* Language box styles */ .mw-pt-languages { background: none; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-radius: 8px; box-shadow: 0 2px 4px rgba(0,0,0,0.08); width: auto; margin: 1rem 0; } .mw-pt-languages-label { background: none; border-right: none; padding: 0.5rem 1rem; } /* Responsive adjustments */ @media screen and (max-width: 768px) { .mainpage-sister-projects span { min-width: 40px; } .mainpage_row { flex-direction: column; padding: 0; } .mainpage_box { width: 100%; min-width: unset; margin: 0.5rem 0; } .mainpage_header h1 { font-size: 2rem; } .thumb { float: none; margin: 1rem auto; } .thumbinner { margin: 0 auto; } #bottom-paragraphs { visibility: hidden; display: none; } } li::marker { color: #4f9160; } lq68t9l4xte1ld6xkfwcbypet9eot68 4 5 2854 2231 2026-03-30T20:06:40Z TTWIDEE 1583 Fixed grammar and improved wording 2854 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages /> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia{{#translation:}}]] <translate> ==What is Abstract Wikipedia?== Abstract Wikipedia is a new sister project of Wikipedia. Wikipedia's vision is a world in which everyone has access to the sum of all knowledge. Abstract Wikipedia will help the communities of volunteers contributing to Wikipedia and its related projects to more effectively close knowledge gaps. Wikipedia has articles about more than 20 million topics in more than 300 languages. But none of these languages allow access to the knowledge about these 20 million topics: English has more than seven million articles, Croatian 230,000, and Swahili 100,000. Unless you speak those languages, that knowledge is not easily available to you. And as much machine translation has improved thanks to recent improvements in AI, it is still not at the point where it can produce translations you can trust for many language pairs. Abstract Wikipedia does that without relying on AI. Each step of the way remains under human control, is accessible and editable by the volunteers. There are no hallucinations, no inexplicable and unfixable mistakes: if anything is wrong, fixing it is just one step away, and there is full transparency about how the text has been created. It is not just a probabilistic model choosing the capital of Kenya per chance every time. It is human-curated and owned knowledge. ==How does Abstract Wikipedia work?== Articles in Abstract Wikipedia are stored in a notation independent of human languages. The interface of Abstract Wikipedia allows volunteer contributors to create and maintain that language-independent notation. In a second step, this notation is being turned into text in human language. The steps required to make this happen are also created and maintained by a community of volunteers, on Wikifunctions. These steps can use the data on [[<tvar name=0>D:</tvar>|Wikidata]], looking up population numbers, dates of birth, or irregular grammatical forms, which have been added to and are maintained on Wikidata by communities of volunteers. See [[<tvar name=1>Special:MyLanguage</tvar>/Help:How to create an article|Help:How to create an article]] for a step-by-step guide. Let's follow one example: [[<tvar name=2>Special:MyLanguage</tvar>/Q1033|Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.]] In Abstract Wikipedia, this might be stored as:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], Z27243K5)}} <translate>Or, if we use English labels for these identifiers:</translate> {{block indent|1=superlative(Nigeria, populous, country, Africa, language)}} <translate>This is a call to a function on Wikifunctions. Based on the language, another function is being called. For English, we get the following function call:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1002|Z1002]])}} <translate>And that results in the English text</translate> {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa."''}} <translate>If we had chosen German, another function would be called:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1430|Z1430]])}} <translate>And that in turn would result in the following German text:</translate> {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria ist das bevölkerungsreichste Land Afrikas."''}} <translate>An example with more languages can be found here.<!-- where?? --> Abstract Wikipedia brings together numerous communities from the Wikimedia Movement and allows them to work together. Basic lexical data and structured data about many topics from Wikidata, functions that capture the necessary computations from Wikifunctions, and images and maps from Wikimedia Commons are all tied together in Abstract Wikipedia and made available for the more than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. The goal of Abstract Wikipedia is to make more knowledge available to more people in more languages, and to allow volunteer editors to be more effective and work across languages, no matter what language they speak. Improvements to the knowledge will automatically propagate to the Wikipedias, errors will be spotted faster and fixed more effectively, and collaborations across languages become possible. We are tearing down the language barriers which are keeping knowledge apart.</translate> s9ccx6ctruoogy2q67c6jaf0y3b2scc 2855 2854 2026-03-30T20:18:18Z ~2026-19812-70 1591 2855 wikitext text/x-wiki https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k 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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV92ZQ--b3k <languages /> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia{{#translation:}}]] <translate> ==What is Abstract Wikipedia?== Abstract Wikipedia is a new sister project of Wikipedia. Wikipedia's vision is a world in which everyone has access to the sum of all knowledge. Abstract Wikipedia will help the communities of volunteers contributing to Wikipedia and its related projects to more effectively close knowledge gaps. Wikipedia has articles about more than 20 million topics in more than 300 languages. But none of these languages allow access to the knowledge about these 20 million topics: English has more than seven million articles, Croatian 230,000, and Swahili 100,000. Unless you speak those languages, that knowledge is not easily available to you. And as much machine translation has improved thanks to recent improvements in AI, it is still not at the point where it can produce translations you can trust for many language pairs. Abstract Wikipedia does that without relying on AI. Each step of the way remains under human control, is accessible and editable by the volunteers. There are no hallucinations, no inexplicable and unfixable mistakes: if anything is wrong, fixing it is just one step away, and there is full transparency about how the text has been created. It is not just a probabilistic model choosing the capital of Kenya per chance every time. It is human-curated and owned knowledge. ==How does Abstract Wikipedia work?== Articles in Abstract Wikipedia are stored in a notation independent of human languages. The interface of Abstract Wikipedia allows volunteer contributors to create and maintain that language-independent notation. In a second step, this notation is being turned into text in human language. The steps required to make this happen are also created and maintained by a community of volunteers, on Wikifunctions. These steps can use the data on [[<tvar name=0>D:</tvar>|Wikidata]], looking up population numbers, dates of birth, or irregular grammatical forms, which have been added to and are maintained on Wikidata by communities of volunteers. See [[<tvar name=1>Special:MyLanguage</tvar>/Help:How to create an article|Help:How to create an article]] for a step-by-step guide. Let's follow one example: [[<tvar name=2>Special:MyLanguage</tvar>/Q1033|Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.]] In Abstract Wikipedia, this might be stored as:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], Z27243K5)}} <translate>Or, if we use English labels for these identifiers:</translate> {{block indent|1=superlative(Nigeria, populous, country, Africa, language)}} <translate>This is a call to a function on Wikifunctions. Based on the language, another function is being called. For English, we get the following function call:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1002|Z1002]])}} <translate>And that results in the English text</translate> {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa."''}} <translate>If we had chosen German, another function would be called:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1430|Z1430]])}} <translate>And that in turn would result in the following German text:</translate> {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria ist das bevölkerungsreichste Land Afrikas."''}} <translate>An example with more languages can be found here.<!-- where?? --> Abstract Wikipedia brings together numerous communities from the Wikimedia Movement and allows them to work together. Basic lexical data and structured data about many topics from Wikidata, functions that capture the necessary computations from Wikifunctions, and images and maps from Wikimedia Commons are all tied together in Abstract Wikipedia and made available for the more than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. The goal of Abstract Wikipedia is to make more knowledge available to more people in more languages, and to allow volunteer editors to be more effective and work across languages, no matter what language they speak. Improvements to the knowledge will automatically propagate to the Wikipedias, errors will be spotted faster and fixed more effectively, and collaborations across languages become possible. We are tearing down the language barriers which are keeping knowledge apart.</translate> dly25ek8ygiq0lc3hjw66ebwjdta2s5 2856 2855 2026-03-30T20:18:40Z ~2026-19812-70 1591 2856 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages /> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia{{#translation:}}]] <translate> ==What is Abstract Wikipedia?== Abstract Wikipedia is a new sister project of Wikipedia. Wikipedia's vision is a world in which everyone has access to the sum of all knowledge. Abstract Wikipedia will help the communities of volunteers contributing to Wikipedia and its related projects to more effectively close knowledge gaps. Wikipedia has articles about more than 20 million topics in more than 300 languages. But none of these languages allow access to the knowledge about these 20 million topics: English has more than seven million articles, Croatian 230,000, and Swahili 100,000. Unless you speak those languages, that knowledge is not easily available to you. And as much machine translation has improved thanks to recent improvements in AI, it is still not at the point where it can produce translations you can trust for many language pairs. Abstract Wikipedia does that without relying on AI. Each step of the way remains under human control, is accessible and editable by the volunteers. There are no hallucinations, no inexplicable and unfixable mistakes: if anything is wrong, fixing it is just one step away, and there is full transparency about how the text has been created. It is not just a probabilistic model choosing the capital of Kenya per chance every time. It is human-curated and owned knowledge. ==How does Abstract Wikipedia work?== Articles in Abstract Wikipedia are stored in a notation independent of human languages. The interface of Abstract Wikipedia allows volunteer contributors to create and maintain that language-independent notation. In a second step, this notation is being turned into text in human language. The steps required to make this happen are also created and maintained by a community of volunteers, on Wikifunctions. These steps can use the data on [[<tvar name=0>D:</tvar>|Wikidata]], looking up population numbers, dates of birth, or irregular grammatical forms, which have been added to and are maintained on Wikidata by communities of volunteers. See [[<tvar name=1>Special:MyLanguage</tvar>/Help:How to create an article|Help:How to create an article]] for a step-by-step guide. Let's follow one example: [[<tvar name=2>Special:MyLanguage</tvar>/Q1033|Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.]] In Abstract Wikipedia, this might be stored as:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], Z27243K5)}} <translate>Or, if we use English labels for these identifiers:</translate> {{block indent|1=superlative(Nigeria, populous, country, Africa, language)}} <translate>This is a call to a function on Wikifunctions. Based on the language, another function is being called. For English, we get the following function call:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1002|Z1002]])}} <translate>And that results in the English text</translate> {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa."''}} <translate>If we had chosen German, another function would be called:</translate> {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1430|Z1430]])}} <translate>And that in turn would result in the following German text:</translate> {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria ist das bevölkerungsreichste Land Afrikas."''}} <translate>An example with more languages can be found here.<!-- where?? --> Abstract Wikipedia brings together numerous communities from the Wikimedia Movement and allows them to work together. Basic lexical data and structured data about many topics from Wikidata, functions that capture the necessary computations from Wikifunctions, and images and maps from Wikimedia Commons are all tied together in Abstract Wikipedia and made available for the more than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. The goal of Abstract Wikipedia is to make more knowledge available to more people in more languages, and to allow volunteer editors to be more effective and work across languages, no matter what language they speak. Improvements to the knowledge will automatically propagate to the Wikipedias, errors will be spotted faster and fixed more effectively, and collaborations across languages become possible. We are tearing down the language barriers which are keeping knowledge apart.</translate> s9ccx6ctruoogy2q67c6jaf0y3b2scc 4 6 2831 2813 2026-03-30T12:11:02Z Jdforrester (WMF) 5 /* Searching for other namespaces in the search bar */ Reply 2831 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages with Parsoid rendering enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) qu71osjznji5nja908r5mdn93tzomw5 2833 2831 2026-03-30T13:11:56Z GrounderUK 54 /* Searching for other namespaces in the search bar */ Reply …or like this 2833 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages with Parsoid rendering enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) d4kws3y1n7wb3zhqw3r081rmg03ba57 2835 2833 2026-03-30T14:37:27Z GrounderUK 54 /* Templates - per usual or as abstract content? */ Reply [are embedded function calls working here?] 2835 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages with Parsoid rendering enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) 7b48xeejv6mvf64q0dqmoqmnnu3a9h4 2837 2835 2026-03-30T14:54:45Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? */ Reply 2837 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages with Parsoid rendering enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|this |should work}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) kzscsk2vjxecpc3hld0ygj2kthjoxux 2838 2837 2026-03-30T14:55:19Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? */ 2838 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages with Parsoid rendering enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll |see this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) a01b1tkshvqlwldpjw80jx2ipklmk2r 2839 2838 2026-03-30T14:57:32Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? */ 2839 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages with Parsoid rendering enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll| see this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) 6gzwgiw7rsqt9nytrewhbm6vmyggxyt 2840 2839 2026-03-30T14:57:57Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? */ 2840 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages with Parsoid rendering enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) 7kb16hkqpc1vke5nw3vag0cebggfi0t 2841 2840 2026-03-30T14:58:47Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? */ 2841 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) fvcicc72twcsic5yhm0e09efib0k8v7 2852 2841 2026-03-30T19:58:58Z GPSLeo 1581 /* List articles */ new section 2852 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) t7wpczmiwre8byi52utnjywpqlaqnz7 2872 2852 2026-03-31T06:00:17Z Kinopiko 1608 /* Logo */ new section 2872 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Logo == In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) tbjgc37oej410ipjxq9j32j1p2k6w94 2874 2872 2026-03-31T06:26:10Z So9q 1553 /* Making it easier to contribute */ Reply 2874 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I suggest a bot that extract useful information and statistics including which functions are used. [[github:dpriskorn/wf-dump-scripts|See my prototype pipeline]]. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Logo == In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) 22yj2mgsbpnn6fy14ty1maw4zkhy07c 2875 2874 2026-03-31T06:28:45Z So9q 1553 /* URL-Parameter for specific language */ Reply 2875 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I suggest a bot that extract useful information and statistics including which functions are used. [[github:dpriskorn/wf-dump-scripts|See my prototype pipeline]]. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::Great 🤩 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:28, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Logo == In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) pug8wp2ki37owzr0jvjy1s0p9xwsfrh 2876 2875 2026-03-31T06:33:32Z So9q 1553 /* Purpose of language-specific functions? */ Reply 2876 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I suggest a bot that extract useful information and statistics including which functions are used. [[github:dpriskorn/wf-dump-scripts|See my prototype pipeline]]. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::Great 🤩 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:28, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::I agree that we need to be able to reduce the noise when finding functions. ::::::I also agree that it would be very valuable to create function categories and be able to filter when searching. ::::::I also agree that defaulting on AW to "top-level" functions is a good idea. ::::::@ainali what do y mean mark them in Wikidata? Functions are not notable there if I understood correctly. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:33, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Logo == In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) 5hpsf9n8vz9wtnrfhm0pko498in568n 2877 2876 2026-03-31T06:41:17Z So9q 1553 /* Supported languages for an article */ Reply 2877 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I suggest a bot that extract useful information and statistics including which functions are used. [[github:dpriskorn/wf-dump-scripts|See my prototype pipeline]]. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::Great 🤩 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:28, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::I agree that we need to be able to reduce the noise when finding functions. ::::::I also agree that it would be very valuable to create function categories and be able to filter when searching. ::::::I also agree that defaulting on AW to "top-level" functions is a good idea. ::::::@ainali what do y mean mark them in Wikidata? Functions are not notable there if I understood correctly. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:33, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::I agree, I recently wrote the team and suggested a clear backtrace so the user can see an overview of the chain of functions and steps in which step failed in which function. :::I'm imagining something like the GitHub actions job pipeline overview, where you can easily see the process and the output from the failing step. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:41, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content \{\{Z26039|Q7257\}\}\ and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be \{\{subject is|Q7257\}\}\. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Logo == In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) fl0mnx5evz6hvuykpmtxtg9oz3szeh2 4 8 2880 2600 2026-03-31T06:54:34Z LastCelebration 1451 /* Rate limits and other non-intelligible errors */ new section 2880 wikitext text/x-wiki This is a page where to report technical problems and bugs you might encounter on the website. Please, add your report below this line. __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Report A Technical Problem]] ---- == Editing and viewing abstract pages do not work == Essentially the title. To reproduce, go to, say [[Q319]]. Notice you cannot use it (it just displays JSON), and when you try to edit it, the same JSON is shown and editable. I'm sure the team is aware, just writing this down. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] notes that abstract articles are being created in the wrong namespace, which seems the likely cause. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:00, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Function links are 404s == If I click from https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q142 to the function view https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Z27868 I get a 404 error. That seems to be true for all the "Z" links. [[User:Eloquence|Eloquence]] ([[User talk:Eloquence|talk]]) 23:17, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :This also seems to happen if you click "Read". [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 00:29, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::It seems to try and view functions in Abstract Wikipedia when the functions are on Wikifunctions instead. https://wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z27868 is where the link should go. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|talk]]) 00:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Fix underway in [[phab:T420666|T420666: Our /view/ URLs aren't working on abstract.wikipedia.org, so we're generating links for users that don't work]]. Sorry for the disruption. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:43, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::Note: This part is fixed; the second part is [[phab:T420670|T420670: from Abstract Wikipedia, links to ZIDs should go to Wikifunctions]] which will get deployed next week. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Search not working == Whne I search, say Canberra, which has an Abstract Wikipedia article, the search bar takes me to [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q3114?wprov=acrw1_0 Not Found], with an error. It should go to [[Q3114|Q3114 - Abstract Wikipedia]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|talk]]) 00:31, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Fix underway in [[phab:T420666|T420666: Our /view/ URLs aren't working on abstract.wikipedia.org, so we're generating links for users that don't work]] for this one too. Sorry for the disruption. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:43, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::This fix is now deployed. Sorry for the disruption! [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Undo not working == When I try to "undo" from history, it doesn't show the revert screen, but only shows the edit screen of the latest article. Maybe the same reason of mis-created namespace... [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 06:45, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Filed as [[phab:T420915|T420915: Attempting to undo an Abstract article edit appears to fail, and opens the editor with the current revision]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:48, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == Special:CreateAbstract with an argument == Steps to reproduce: * Go to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q123456]] * Add some content * Try to publish Error message: <blockquote>The value of the 'qid' property ('Q0') does not match the page title 'Q123456'</blockquote> [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:38, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I got this same error message when trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q151]] (of course with it saying Q151 rather than Q123456). Also occurred when I tried to create a blank page. <span class="nowrap"><code>[[User:Dot.py|dot]][[User talk:Dot.py|.]][[Special:Contributions/Dot.py (alt)|p]][[Special:Contributions/Dot.py|y]]</code></span> 23:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :Filed as [[phab:T420916|T420916: Direct browses to Special:CreateAbstract/Q123456 don't work on publishing, attempt to publish to Q0]]. Thanks for the report! [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:49, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::This fix is now deployed. Sorry for the disruption! [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:43, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Pages can't be viewed == When trying to view pages longer than a sentence that aren't hard coded copies of articles from enwiki, I get "Reached max retries. Try again later." Is this expected behavior? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 13:59, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :ex: [[Q213]] [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 14:00, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes it's a bug. Tracked in [[phab:T420630]]. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 14:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] not working == Hello, I could just file a task on Phabricator but checking here first. For some reason, I can't find [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] in the list of functions. [[User:FantasticWikiUser|FantasticWikiUser]] ([[User talk:FantasticWikiUser|talk]]) 17:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:FantasticWikiUser|FantasticWikiUser]]: Z26095 outputs a "[https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en-gb/Z11 Monolingual text]" item, not a fragment of HTML, so it won't show up in search except in places you can use a monolingual text item, like as an argument to a Z32234 call. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Mainspace content model == The content model of abstract articles, as reported by <syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext" inline>{{#contentmodel:canonical|Q1}}</syntaxhighlight>, is <code>abstractwiki</code>. Can this be changed to something else more descriptive, akin to Wikidata's <code>wikibase-item</code>/<code>wikibase-lexeme</code>/<code>wikibase-property</code> and Wikifunctions's <code>zobject</code>? <code>abstractarticle</code>, for example. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 01:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == 1 (Q199) isn't appearing when I choose it == For some reason, Q199 doesn't show up when it is used. 2 works fine. [[User:FantasticWikiUser|FantasticWikiUser]] ([[User talk:FantasticWikiUser|talk]]) 09:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Example: [[Q199]] itself, or [[Q556]] [[User:FantasticWikiUser|FantasticWikiUser]] ([[User talk:FantasticWikiUser|talk]]) 09:31, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::On Wikidata, [[d:Q199]] didn't have a special label for English, instead using the default for all languages. The [[f:Z23753|label of item reference in language]] function was only able to find labels in the given language, without looking for defaults, so it showed up as nothing. I added an English label for 1, so everything should be fine now. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 10:11, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Rate limits and other non-intelligible errors == I've been editing some pages here to experiment around, and the first thing I notice, aside from the very slow speed of how these very short sentences are constructed, are the constant errors I get. Some of these are: * [[Q711]]<br/>Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Could not acquire WASI runner within time limit * [[Q183]]<br/>Unable to render this fragment due to an unknown error. There was also something about a rate limit for the orchestrator? Is this a problem with the WMF servers? I've never noticed these kinds of performance issues, even in wikis like en-WP which have stacks and stacks of Lua modules and wikitext templates built on top of each other! [[User:LastCelebration|'''<span style="color:#d98dd3;">Last</span><span style="color:#033a7f;">Celebration</span>''']] ([[User talk:LastCelebration|talk]]) 06:54, 31 March 2026 (UTC) 05dnsyyq2dsr9c89ymax7vf2m69qsis 5 24 2860 2810 2026-03-31T00:23:01Z GrounderUK 54 /* Article count */ Reply 2860 wikitext text/x-wiki == Editing Main page? == I suppose main page isn't critical and we are not a bureaucracy, but I am surprised I can edit main page even with 0 edits on this Wiki [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 17:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Something tells me it's not going to be kept open for very long… [[User:HartOve|HartOve]] ([[User talk:HartOve|talk]]) 19:12, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Shouldn't project pages be in 'abstract language'? AFAICT this is only available in English [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 19:37, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::That's not what the project means. It will be translatable eventually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:40, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :It's fine for now. I'd expect that to change in the next day but popular edits to the main page are necessary to ensure it is good before it is locked, especially since we have no administrators locally (besides global admins, I suppose, and staff have the rights). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:39, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I was just coming to comment the same thing, but I suppose only people who follow WMF closely will know about this project so far, so the chance of vandalism is low. [[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]] ([[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]) 20:25, 19 March 2026 (UTC) While waiting for a more formal decision I pre-emptively protected the main page (to autoconfirmed only for now). Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I don't think anyone is autoconfirmed on this wiki yet. Doesn't this mean no one can edit the main page? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|talk]]) 23:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|ChaoticVermillion}} indeed there is no autoconfirmed user yet, but that could/should change soon. Also, stewards and global admins can still edit the main page (cf. below). Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 06:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Initial design of main page == I just wanted to share that the initial design was copied from [[:f:Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions' main page]], so it is originally our team's idea, but the sister projects' section and the CSS at the base are product of the Wikifunctions community. This message is to acknowledge copyright where it's due. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 21:18, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :If it's for copyright reasons, providing a permalink to the version that was copied is customary. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 21:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Right. The base is from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page&oldid=1170 this version], but the sister projects are from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page&oldid=258133 this version]. The CSS is from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page/styles.css&oldid=173459 this version]. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 21:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Remove broken notice == Please remove the notice that creating a page is broken. It has been fixed! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:21, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{Done}} [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:41, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Broken Links == Some of the links leading to the other Wikimedia projects lead to "Create a New Abstract Article for V:⧼lang⧽:", which seems counter-intuitive, shouldn't it lead to the actual sites? [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:07, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :More specifically, it leads to an abstract wikipedia article, whereas I would expect it to lead to their own websites, since, for example, wikidata leads to its own website. This therefore demonstrates inconsistent behavior. [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]]: I've temporarily [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page&diff=prev&oldid=2122 removed the language-specific links] which are broken to fix this. They can be restored when/if the page is converted to use the Translate extension; for now, they will always point to the English Wikipedia/Wikibooks/''etc.'' regardless of the user's language, sadly. CC @[[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 20:43, 24 March 2026 (UTC) == Misspelling == Wikifunctions Glossary is spelled as "Wiki functions Glossary" [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:12, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :If [[Special:diff/1627|this]] is the case, {{fixed}}. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 23:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yep! My auto-correct was little too helpful this time around! [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17384-61|&#126;2026-17384-61]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17384-61|talk]]) 23:24, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Article count == On [[en:Main Page]], there's a counter for active users and articles. Would anyone object if I were to add the counter to this page and the accompanying css to [[Template:Main page/styles.css]]? <span class="nowrap"><code>[[User:Dot.py|dot]][[User talk:Dot.py|.]][[Special:Contributions/Dot.py (alt)|p]][[Special:Contributions/Dot.py|y]]</code></span> 01:21, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :They might, after you’ve done it. We are young and beta enough for you to be bold! But be not offended if the reversion is swift. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:23, 31 March 2026 (UTC) 0wpo2hoa3au2nhre0zckxkul8qp5b4m 2861 2860 2026-03-31T01:03:26Z ~2026-19898-12 1632 2861 wikitext text/x-wiki == Editing Main page? == I suppose main page isn't critical and we are not a bureaucracy, but I am surprised I can edit main page even with 0 edits on this Wiki [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 17:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Something tells me it's not going to be kept open for very long… [[User:HartOve|HartOve]] ([[User talk:HartOve|talk]]) 19:12, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Shouldn't project pages be in 'abstract language'? AFAICT this is only available in English [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 19:37, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::That's not what the project means. It will be translatable eventually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:40, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :It's fine for now. I'd expect that to change in the next day but popular edits to the main page are necessary to ensure it is good before it is locked, especially since we have no administrators locally (besides global admins, I suppose, and staff have the rights). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:39, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I was just coming to comment the same thing, but I suppose only people who follow WMF closely will know about this project so far, so the chance of vandalism is low. [[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]] ([[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]) 20:25, 19 March 2026 (UTC) While waiting for a more formal decision I pre-emptively protected the main page (to autoconfirmed only for now). Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I don't think anyone is autoconfirmed on this wiki yet. Doesn't this mean no one can edit the main page? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|talk]]) 23:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|ChaoticVermillion}} indeed there is no autoconfirmed user yet, but that could/should change soon. Also, stewards and global admins can still edit the main page (cf. below). Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 06:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Initial design of main page == I just wanted to share that the initial design was copied from [[:f:Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions' main page]], so it is originally our team's idea, but the sister projects' section and the CSS at the base are product of the Wikifunctions community. This message is to acknowledge copyright where it's due. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 21:18, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :If it's for copyright reasons, providing a permalink to the version that was copied is customary. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 21:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Right. The base is from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page&oldid=1170 this version], but the sister projects are from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page&oldid=258133 this version]. The CSS is from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page/styles.css&oldid=173459 this version]. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 21:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Remove broken notice == Please remove the notice that creating a page is broken. It has been fixed! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:21, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{Done}} [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:41, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Broken Links == Some of the links leading to the other Wikimedia projects lead to "Create a New Abstract Article for V:⧼lang⧽:", which seems counter-intuitive, shouldn't it lead to the actual sites? [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:07, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :More specifically, it leads to an abstract wikipedia article, whereas I would expect it to lead to their own websites, since, for example, wikidata leads to its own website. This therefore demonstrates inconsistent behavior. [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]]: I've temporarily [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page&diff=prev&oldid=2122 removed the language-specific links] which are broken to fix this. They can be restored when/if the page is converted to use the Translate extension; for now, they will always point to the English Wikipedia/Wikibooks/''etc.'' regardless of the user's language, sadly. CC @[[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 20:43, 24 March 2026 (UTC) == Misspelling == Wikifunctions Glossary is spelled as "Wiki functions Glossary" [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:12, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :If [[Special:diff/1627|this]] is the case, {{fixed}}. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 23:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yep! My auto-correct was little too helpful this time around! [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17384-61|&#126;2026-17384-61]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17384-61|talk]]) 23:24, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Article count == On [[en:Main Page]], there's a counter for active users and articles. Would anyone object if I were to add the counter to this page and the accompanying css to [[Template:Main page/styles.css]]? <span class="nowrap"><code>[[User:Dot.py|dot]][[User talk:Dot.py|.]][[Special:Contributions/Dot.py (alt)|p]][[Special:Contributions/Dot.py|y]]</code></span> 01:21, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :They might, after you’ve done it. We are young and beta enough for you to be bold! But be not offended if the reversion is swift. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:23, 31 March 2026 (UTC) @ [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-19898-12|&#126;2026-19898-12]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-19898-12|talk]]) 01:03, 31 March 2026 (UTC) 1hq8olhznt1xmxcfzjfeqlc9xfazamk 2868 2861 2026-03-31T02:56:23Z NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 876 Reverted edit by [[Special:Contributions/~2026-19898-12|~2026-19898-12]] ([[User talk:~2026-19898-12|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] 2860 wikitext text/x-wiki == Editing Main page? == I suppose main page isn't critical and we are not a bureaucracy, but I am surprised I can edit main page even with 0 edits on this Wiki [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 17:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Something tells me it's not going to be kept open for very long… [[User:HartOve|HartOve]] ([[User talk:HartOve|talk]]) 19:12, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Shouldn't project pages be in 'abstract language'? AFAICT this is only available in English [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 19:37, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::That's not what the project means. It will be translatable eventually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:40, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :It's fine for now. I'd expect that to change in the next day but popular edits to the main page are necessary to ensure it is good before it is locked, especially since we have no administrators locally (besides global admins, I suppose, and staff have the rights). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:39, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I was just coming to comment the same thing, but I suppose only people who follow WMF closely will know about this project so far, so the chance of vandalism is low. [[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]] ([[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]) 20:25, 19 March 2026 (UTC) While waiting for a more formal decision I pre-emptively protected the main page (to autoconfirmed only for now). Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I don't think anyone is autoconfirmed on this wiki yet. Doesn't this mean no one can edit the main page? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|talk]]) 23:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|ChaoticVermillion}} indeed there is no autoconfirmed user yet, but that could/should change soon. Also, stewards and global admins can still edit the main page (cf. below). Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 06:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Initial design of main page == I just wanted to share that the initial design was copied from [[:f:Wikifunctions:Main Page|Wikifunctions' main page]], so it is originally our team's idea, but the sister projects' section and the CSS at the base are product of the Wikifunctions community. This message is to acknowledge copyright where it's due. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 21:18, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :If it's for copyright reasons, providing a permalink to the version that was copied is customary. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 21:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Right. The base is from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page&oldid=1170 this version], but the sister projects are from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page&oldid=258133 this version]. The CSS is from [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Main_page/styles.css&oldid=173459 this version]. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 21:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Remove broken notice == Please remove the notice that creating a page is broken. It has been fixed! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:21, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{Done}} [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:41, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Broken Links == Some of the links leading to the other Wikimedia projects lead to "Create a New Abstract Article for V:⧼lang⧽:", which seems counter-intuitive, shouldn't it lead to the actual sites? [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:07, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :More specifically, it leads to an abstract wikipedia article, whereas I would expect it to lead to their own websites, since, for example, wikidata leads to its own website. This therefore demonstrates inconsistent behavior. [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]]: I've temporarily [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page&diff=prev&oldid=2122 removed the language-specific links] which are broken to fix this. They can be restored when/if the page is converted to use the Translate extension; for now, they will always point to the English Wikipedia/Wikibooks/''etc.'' regardless of the user's language, sadly. CC @[[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 20:43, 24 March 2026 (UTC) == Misspelling == Wikifunctions Glossary is spelled as "Wiki functions Glossary" [[User:Raiunip|Raiunip]] ([[User talk:Raiunip|talk]]) 23:12, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :If [[Special:diff/1627|this]] is the case, {{fixed}}. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 23:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yep! My auto-correct was little too helpful this time around! [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17384-61|&#126;2026-17384-61]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17384-61|talk]]) 23:24, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Article count == On [[en:Main Page]], there's a counter for active users and articles. Would anyone object if I were to add the counter to this page and the accompanying css to [[Template:Main page/styles.css]]? <span class="nowrap"><code>[[User:Dot.py|dot]][[User talk:Dot.py|.]][[Special:Contributions/Dot.py (alt)|p]][[Special:Contributions/Dot.py|y]]</code></span> 01:21, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :They might, after you’ve done it. We are young and beta enough for you to be bold! But be not offended if the reversion is swift. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:23, 31 March 2026 (UTC) 0wpo2hoa3au2nhre0zckxkul8qp5b4m 12 41 2884 2665 2026-03-31T10:03:41Z Redmin 1445 +note about Z32962 2884 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <translate> In Abstract Wikipedia you can only create articles about topics that already have a Wikidata item. If the topic does not already exist on Wikidata that you can tell by [[<tvar name="1">d:special:search</tvar>|search]], follow [[<tvar name="2">d:Special:MyLanguage/help:items#Creating a new item</tvar>|this help page]] to make a new item for it. == Steps == In order to create an article, you can go to [[<tvar name="1">Special:CreateAbstract</tvar>|Create a New Abstract Article]]. </translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-1.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Select a topic</translate>]] <translate>Type to select a topic, and click on create.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-2.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Empty abstract article</translate>]] <translate>You will get to a new screen. On the right hand side you see the preview in the selected language, on the left hand side the abstract content.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-3.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Click on the plus sign to add a fragment.</translate>]] <translate>Click on the plus button in the left panel to add a new fragment. For now, we are adding an empty fragment.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-4.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>An empty fragment</translate>]] <translate>This will look like this, showing a function call without a function selected yet. We click on the caron next to the red "Select Function" text.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-5.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Function selector open</translate>]] <translate>That will open the function selector.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-6.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Selecting a function</translate>]] <translate>We select a function. It has to be a function that exists on Wikifunctions, and at this point, it has to return an HTML fragment. In this example we choose the function "string to HTML fragment", as this allows us to enter a string, or choose a function that creates a string.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-7.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Selected the "string to HTML fragment" function</translate>]] <translate>We have now selected a function. We get fields for the arguments. Instead of typing a string, we want to add another function,</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-8.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Change the mode of the argument</translate>]] <translate>In order to do so, we change the mode of the argument named string by clicking on the three dots next to string. This allows us to change from the current mode, literal, to a function call.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-9.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Select the inner function</translate>]] <translate>Here we can now select a function that returns a string.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-10.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Choose a function returning a string</translate>]] <translate>We select the function "Article-less instantiating fragment" -- a function that creates sentences such as "Paris is a city." Note that selecting the function “Article-less instantiating HTML fragment” would have allowed us to skip using the function “string to HTML fragment”.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-10.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Arguments for article-less instantiating fragment function</translate>]] <translate>Now we see the arguments for this function. We also get automatically fitting arguments filled in. This leads to the sentence "Paris is a Paris.", because the arguments "entity" and "class" both get prefilled with the item we are writing about.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-11.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Changing the mode on the "class" argument</translate>]] <translate>We need to change the mode on the "class" argument from the automatically filled value (an Argument reference) to a literal.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-12.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Changed the mode of "class" to literal.</translate>]] <translate>This gives us now a field to select a Wikidata item for the value of the "class" argument.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-13.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>Selecting city for the class argument</translate>]] <translate>We select the "city" item for the class argument.</translate> [[file:aw-tutorial-step-14.png|center|frameless|800px|<translate>The first sentence is created.</translate>]] <translate> Once this is selected, the first sentence of the article should be ready. We can now click on publish and have a first version of the article available. Now you can click edit to add more. == This is far too complicated! == Yes, agreed. There are two ways to make this easier:</translate> * <translate>improve the UX</translate> * <translate>improve the catalogue of functions</translate> <translate> Whereas the development team at the Wikimedia Foundation will be focused on the first approach (and will always appreciate UX ideas), the community can work on a more comprehensive and easy to use catalogue of functions in Wikifunctions. Here we see that naming the functions and arguments is important, and that we probably want to avoid too many functions which turn one type in another in the above flow. But yes, most importantly, Abstract Wikipedia is currently in an early public Beta, and it is currently difficult to create and edit articles. We all will need to work together to improve that. If you have ideas for new functions, please suggest them at [[<tvar name="1">Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions</tvar>|Suggested functions]]. == See also == </translate> * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] [[category:help{{#translation:}}]] rb076opgcteaa7l1zz34j5m0tbv9uda 0 228 2834 2732 2026-03-30T13:21:52Z GrounderUK 54 Wikidata links working 2834 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q1344227", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32123", "Z32123K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z14396", "Z14396K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q283202" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q914040" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z30805", "Z30805K1": "", "Z30805K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z31465", "Z31465K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z23753", "Z23753K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q7445582" }, "Z23753K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32149", "Z32149K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32428", "Z32428K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q914040" }, "Z32428K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32428", "Z32428K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q283202" }, "Z32428K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ], "Z32149K2": " • " }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32149", "Z32149K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32878", "Z32878K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z32878K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32878", "Z32878K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q283202" }, "Z32878K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32878", "Z32878K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q914040" }, "Z32878K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ], "Z32149K2": " • " } ] } } } 1i6u3pa5hopvlw62cngnv18lm65k74u 4 386 2882 2586 2026-03-31T08:49:08Z Redmin 1445 +note about conversion of the first letter of subject's name to uppercase in English 2882 wikitext text/x-wiki These functions are considered useful for composing abstract articles, in that they have typical use cases in composing them and have broad support across languages. For more discussion and tracking of fragment functions, see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Abstract Wikipedia/2025 fragment experiments]]. For a list of functions relating to natural language, see [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]]. == Article-less instantiating fragment == [[f:Z26039]] creates a sentence along the lines of "X is a(n) Y." The "entity" field should be the subject (typically, but not always, your article's subject). The "class" field should be what it is being described as. === Example === *: Entity: Q3870/Nairobi *: Class: Q515/city *: Language: English *: Result: "Nairobi is a city" Note that this function converts the subject's name's first letter to uppercase in some languages which may not always be appropriate. In such cases, you can use [[f:Z32954]] to undo that behavior. == Article-ful instantiating fragment == [[f:Z26095]] creates a sentence along the lines of "A(n) X is a(n) Y." The "entity" field should be the subject (typically, but not always, your article's subject). The "class" field should be what it is being described as. === Example === *: Entity: Q89/apple *: Class: Q3314483/fruit *: Language: English *: Result: "An apple is a fruit" == Defining role sentence == [[f:Z28016]] creates a sentence along the lines of "X is the Y of Z." The "subject" field should be the subject (typically, but not always, your article's subject). The "role" field should be which role it serves to the dependency. The dependency should be what is related to the subject. === Example === *: Subject: Q3870/Nairobi *: Role: Q5119/Capital city *: Dependency: Q114/Kenya *: Language: English *: Result: "Nairobi is the capital city of Kenya" == State location using entity and class == [[f:Z26570]] creates a sentence along the lines of "X is a Y in Z". The "entity" field should be the subject (typically, but not always, your article's subject). The "class" field should be what is being described as. The "location" field should say where it is located. === Example === *: Entity: Q3870/Nairobi *: Class: Q515/city *: Location: Q114/Kenya *: Language: English *: Result: "Nairobi is a city in Kenya" ==sentence case section title from Wikidata label== [[f:Z32145]] makes a capitalised section title (level 2 heading), using the label of the chosen Wikidata item from the appropriate language or a fallback. === Example === *: Entity: Q309/history *: Language: English *: Result: "<nowiki><h2>History</h2></nowiki>" ===plural sentence case title from Wikidata label=== A plural version of [[f:Z32145]] is [[f:Z32839]]. '''Example''' *: Entity: Q121769/reference *: Language: English *: Result: "<nowiki><h2>References</h2></nowiki>" == Join text-like objects into HTML fragments == [[f:Z32234]] combines certain text-like objects (currently [[f:Z6|strings]], [[f:Z11|monolingual texts]], and [[f:Z89|HTML fragments]]) into one big HTML fragment. It is useful for making multi-sentence paragraphs and avoiding the divide between the 3 types in linguistic functions. ==Monolingual text as HTML fragment w/ auto-langcode== [[f:Z29749]] converts a monolingual text into an HTML fragment. If the target language is not matched, it prepends a language code. This helps to still display a fallback when the functions available to a language are incomplete. ==Collective role sentence== [[f:Z32326]] creates a sentence along the lines of "Xs are Ys of Z". The "subject" field should be the subject (typically, but not always, your article's subject). The "role" field should be which role it serves to the dependency. The dependency should be what is related to the subject. === Example === *: Subject: Q523/star *: Role: Q31464082/source entity *: Dependency: Q9128/light *: Language: English *: Result: "Stars are sources of light." ==Simple present collective sentence== [[f:Z32531]] creates a sentence along the lines of "Xs verb Ys". The "subject" field should be the subject (typically, but not always, your article's subject). The "object" field should be the entity or concept that the subject is acting upon or relating to (i.e. what receives the action in the sentence). The "verb" field should describe the type of relationship or action between the subject and object, typically expressed as a base concept that can be converted into a natural verb. === Example === *: Subject: Q523/star *: Object: Q11426/metal *: Verb: Q6014822/containment *: Language: English *: Result: "Stars contain metals." [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Useful Functions]] 8jc8sy3xdwge4q994saagyy43x7khqz 0 411 2879 1757 2026-03-31T06:49:17Z Mormegil 1192 you cannot just say a string is an HTML; what if it’s not? 2879 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q5424", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z20898", "Z20898K1": { "Z1K1": "Z20159", "Z20159K1": { "Z1K1": "Z17813", "Z17813K1": "Z17814" }, "Z20159K2": { "Z1K1": "Z13518", "Z13518K1": "1234" } }, "Z20898K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z31465", "Z31465K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28254", "Z28254K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q1656682" }, "Z28254K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } ] } } } fke39zek21xfzhhxikk4gcuqjmyrpeq 0 416 2871 1768 2026-03-31T05:55:58Z LastCelebration 1451 Replaced literal reference to Wikidata item with reference to value of "instance of" 2871 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q137862439", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32163", "Z32163K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z21449", "Z21449K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6092", "Z6092K1": "P31" }, "Z21449K2": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z6821", "Z6821K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" } } }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q34004" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } ] } ] } } } foo8i8a4g10t62erhp0xaqcqfe6otpu 2873 2871 2026-03-31T06:02:48Z LastCelebration 1451 Making very slightly good progress: replaced short "x is y" definitional sentence with "x is y of z" sentence with subclass 2873 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q137862439", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32163", "Z32163K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28109", "Z28109K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28109K2": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z23459", "Z23459K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z6821", "Z6821K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" } }, "Z23459K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6092", "Z6092K1": "P31" } }, "Z28109K3": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z23459", "Z23459K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z6821", "Z6821K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" } }, "Z23459K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6092", "Z6092K1": "P279" } }, "Z28109K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q34004" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } ] } ] } } } mms7gkg3lp5tgvbi18ifwv68hbmnq4v 4 451 2844 2601 2026-03-30T17:25:41Z Asked42 130 /* Miscellaneous requests */ 2844 wikitext text/x-wiki This page is the place to request for permissions. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration]] : ''Add your request to the appropriate section below.'' == Administrator == === [[User:Koavf]] === I am an admin on [[:d:]] and I've been trying to bring some structure to this wiki since it launched. If the community is hesitant about having local admins this early, I am willing to be a temporary admin and reapply after <var>x</var> months. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 07:14, 27 March 2026 (UTC) * {{oppose}} Most of your edits here are to templates (87/132) and categories (22/132), all of which are meta-esque/administration-related. Abstract Wikipedia is in its infant stage, and so its admins should be more content-focused. Not to mention, there are barely any admin-level tasks to be done at this moment (vandals, if any, can be handled by global sysops and stewards). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 07:36, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :{{oppose}}'''Oppose''', Nguoi said it well above. I'd prefer an admin that I can trust to handle the content side. You don't have any mainspace edits to WF so I don't think you qualify here. I might be willing to support a 1-month adminship if you elaborate on what you would do as an administrator. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:08, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::I do however think a local admin would do us good (I don't trust Stewards and Global Admins to perform content-related tasks), and for that reason I nominate {{ping|99of9}}. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:09, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Interface administrator == == Bureaucrat == == Miscellaneous requests == === Translation administrators for [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] === Hello, the translation feature seems enabled now. I'm requesting for the translationadmin rights to help out with the translations in project namespaces (not mainspace translation), e.g. marking pages for translation.[[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) * @[[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]]: Note that it's not fully working yet for some reason, but hopefully soon! [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) * Could you please provide an example of a page that you have marked up for translation yourself? [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 13:53, 26 March 2026 (UTC) *: @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]], thanks for the follow-up, here is an example from metawiki: [[:m:WikiBarta]], and here [[Help:Contents]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 14:21, 26 March 2026 (UTC) * {{support}}'''Support''': lgtm [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:00, 26 March 2026 (UTC) * '''Support''': If we want this project to be a global one, it's best to have people who don't speak English come in from the start, having PAGs that can be read is an important part of that. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 16:32, 26 March 2026 (UTC) *{{support}} Globally trusted user. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 07:13, 27 March 2026 (UTC) * {{Support}} --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 08:39, 27 March 2026 (UTC) * {{support}}'''Support'''. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|talk]]) 08:54, 27 March 2026 (UTC) *{{support}}'''Support'''. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 14:39, 27 March 2026 (UTC) * {{support}} --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:28, 28 March 2026 (UTC) * {{support}} --[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ==See also== * [[Abstract Wikipedia:User groups]] ** [[Special:ListGroupRights]] for the listing of rights per user group 4ab3xmlho1ec18uiw4b8gud3bfhkvpn 4 723 2836 2717 2026-03-30T14:45:38Z GrounderUK 54 /* Link to Wikidata */ Reply ✅ 2836 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Suggested functions]] Content that can be added to abstract articles is limited by which functions exist on [[f:WF:Main page|Wikifunctions]]. If you're making an article that needs a new type of sentence, either [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateObject&zid=Z8 create it on Wikifunctions], or suggest it here to get input from others. Due to different grammar rules in different languages it may be beneficial to discuss new functions here first, as not all generic concepts work across all languages. To suggest a function, create a section below (new sections go at the bottom), and provide an example of its use. Make sure to sign your suggestions using <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>. == Intro sentence for species articles == I imagine Abstract Wiki will be largely used for taxa articles, similar to that of Lsjbot. For example, for a species:</br> '''''Bursadella dichroalis''''' is a '''moth''' in the '''family''' '''Immidae'''.</br> '''''article name''''' is a(n) '''X''' in the '''Y''' '''Z''' </br></br> [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 19:18, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Furthermore, there could be more information like:</br>It was described in '''1880''' :</br> [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 19:21, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps a useful step towards that would be to make a function that takes a Wikidata reference and outputs a label, with the label of the more general concept linked through 'instance of' or 'subclass of' as an adjective, plus determiner for languages that use them: the family Immidae, the dog Rin Tin Tin, the planet Mars. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:40, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::I started with a simple helper function [[f:Z32852]], which outputs something along the lines of "Homo sapiens is a species" or "Canis is a genus" The implementation isn't connected yet with no testcases, because I don't have functioneer (am currently requesting). ::I'm not sure yet how to do the whole instance/subclass of and adding determiners, are there functions that already would do that? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:42, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Can we not just fetch the taxonomic information from WD? I guess you'd want to manually set it sometimes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:54, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::Agreed. I think it wwould be really useful to have something like '''Wikidata ID''' is a '''[function getting the common name of the correct taxon rank]''' in the family '''[function getting the family name]''' ::However, figuring out the expected common name of the right taxon rank above is not easy, as going from a moth species to [[d:Q56315380]] seems non-trivial. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:16, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Link to Wikidata == We have [[f:Z32428]] for internal (Abstract Wikipedia) links and [[f:Z31697]] for Wikipedia links (article title). Other link functions are available! So far, though, I don’t think we have a function to generate a link to a Wikidata item, and I’m not sure how it should by styled so as to avoid confusion with an Abstract Wikipedia link. Note: we have no architecture for injecting a link into a sentence fragment, so a link like this would need to be a standalone HTML fragment and should be reusable within many “sentence fragment” functions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:21, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :{{done}} This is now working. Thank you, @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] :{{#function:Z32878|Q96807071|}} :(I think the third argument defaults to the page content language here.) [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:45, 30 March 2026 (UTC) gpglbmepsp3bzvkyuhxgvnux2h82b8n 2843 2836 2026-03-30T16:20:46Z GrounderUK 54 /* Link to Wikidata */ switched to Q104587954; failing call 2843 wikitext text/x-wiki __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Suggested functions]] Content that can be added to abstract articles is limited by which functions exist on [[f:WF:Main page|Wikifunctions]]. If you're making an article that needs a new type of sentence, either [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateObject&zid=Z8 create it on Wikifunctions], or suggest it here to get input from others. Due to different grammar rules in different languages it may be beneficial to discuss new functions here first, as not all generic concepts work across all languages. To suggest a function, create a section below (new sections go at the bottom), and provide an example of its use. Make sure to sign your suggestions using <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>. == Intro sentence for species articles == I imagine Abstract Wiki will be largely used for taxa articles, similar to that of Lsjbot. For example, for a species:</br> '''''Bursadella dichroalis''''' is a '''moth''' in the '''family''' '''Immidae'''.</br> '''''article name''''' is a(n) '''X''' in the '''Y''' '''Z''' </br></br> [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 19:18, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Furthermore, there could be more information like:</br>It was described in '''1880''' :</br> [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 19:21, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps a useful step towards that would be to make a function that takes a Wikidata reference and outputs a label, with the label of the more general concept linked through 'instance of' or 'subclass of' as an adjective, plus determiner for languages that use them: the family Immidae, the dog Rin Tin Tin, the planet Mars. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:40, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::I started with a simple helper function [[f:Z32852]], which outputs something along the lines of "Homo sapiens is a species" or "Canis is a genus" The implementation isn't connected yet with no testcases, because I don't have functioneer (am currently requesting). ::I'm not sure yet how to do the whole instance/subclass of and adding determiners, are there functions that already would do that? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:42, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Can we not just fetch the taxonomic information from WD? I guess you'd want to manually set it sometimes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:54, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::Agreed. I think it wwould be really useful to have something like '''Wikidata ID''' is a '''[function getting the common name of the correct taxon rank]''' in the family '''[function getting the family name]''' ::However, figuring out the expected common name of the right taxon rank above is not easy, as going from a moth species to [[d:Q56315380]] seems non-trivial. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:16, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Link to Wikidata == We have [[f:Z32428]] for internal (Abstract Wikipedia) links and [[f:Z31697]] for Wikipedia links (article title). Other link functions are available! So far, though, I don’t think we have a function to generate a link to a Wikidata item, and I’m not sure how it should by styled so as to avoid confusion with an Abstract Wikipedia link. Note: we have no architecture for injecting a link into a sentence fragment, so a link like this would need to be a standalone HTML fragment and should be reusable within many “sentence fragment” functions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:21, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :{{done}} This is now working. Thank you, @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] :{{#function:Z32878|Q104587954|}} :(I think the third argument defaults to the page content language here.) [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:45, 30 March 2026 (UTC) d0qsyvc2adhjkwk31hkfb2fs44rguga 2 735 2842 2803 2026-03-30T15:36:31Z Amire80 22 " 2842 wikitext text/x-wiki [[File:Snark Bellman.jpg|frameless|center]] ---- <div style="font-family: serif; font-size: x-large;"> <div lang="he" dir="rtl"> <poem> מִקָּצֶה לְקָצֶה זֶה תָּמִיד מִתְמַצֶּה בְּאוֹתָהּ נְקֻדָּה, הַכְּתָמִים מֻפְשָׁטִים, הַלֵּילוֹת מִתְקַצְּרִים לְקַו לָבָן, בֵּין רַקָּה לָרַקָּה נְקָמָה מְתוּקָה, מְנוֹעִים שְׁקֵטִים, [[Special:AllPages|רַכָּבוֹת שֶׁל מִלִּים]] חוֹלְפוֹת כְּמוֹ צְלָלִים מֵעָלַי. </poem> <div style="text-align: left; font-size: medium;"> ''אסף אמדורסקי, יהלי סובול, סיון שביט'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="fr" dir="ltr"> Lorsqu’il aborda la planète il salua respectueusement l’allumeur : « Bonjour. Pourquoi viens-tu d’éteindre ton réverbère ? — C’est la consigne, répondit l’allumeur. Bonjour. — Qu’est-ce que la consigne ? — C’est d’éteindre mon réverbère. Bonsoir. » Et il le ralluma. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="sv" dir="ltr"> Vem har du med dig? frågade mumintrollet. Det är Ninni, sa Tooticki. Ungen heter Ninni. Hon höll fortfarande upp dörren och väntade. Ingen kom. Nåja, sa Tooticki och ryckte på axlarna. Hon kan ju hålla sig där ute om hon är blyg. Men blir hon inte våt, frågade mumintrollets mamma. Jag vet inte om det gör så mycket när man när man är osynlig, svarade Tooticki och kom fram och satte sig. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Tove Jansson'' </div> </div> ---- — What is this that this is that this thing there? — Sorry, what is this that you have said? — That thing there, what is this that this is? — Oh, dad's beard? — No, the other thing. — You want to say a bald mouse? — No, not that. — Maybe a washing rat? — No... in the sky! — Oh yeah, of course. It's a flying deer.<!-- — A-tchoo! — To your wishes! — A-tchoo! — To your loved ones! — A-tchoo! — And may they last forever! — I call myself Roya, and you? — I call myself Alex, enchanted. — Enchanted, and what age have you? — Me I'm born in one thousand nine hundred four twenty yen eight and I have twenty seven years, and you? — Me I'm born in thousand nine hundred four twenty fourteen, so I have thirty one years. — Oh the cow! — Yeah, that is cowly owl that! — I love you my cabbage! — I love you strong, my fleas. — You miss us a lot. — You miss me too. --> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NaXZVAycV54 ''@atfrenchies, @royaventurera''] </div> ---- <div lang="es" dir="ltr"> —¡Válame Dios —dijo don Quijote—, y qué vida nos hemos de dar, Sancho amigo! ¡Qué de churumbelas han de llegar a nuestros oídos, qué de gaitas zamoranas, qué de tamborines y qué de sonajas y qué de rabeles! Pues ¡qué si destas diferencias de músicas resuena la de los albogues! Allí se verá casi todos los instrumentos pastorales. —¿Qué son albogues —preguntó Sancho—, que ni los he oído nombrar, ni los he visto en toda mi vida? —Albogues son —respondió don Quijote— unas chapas a modo de candeleros de azófar, que dando una con otra por lo vacío y hueco hace un son, que, si no muy agradable ni armónico, no descontenta y viene bien con la rusticidad de la gaita y del tamborín. Y este nombre ''albogues'' es morisco, como lo son todos aquellos que en nuestra lengua castellana comienzan en ''al'', conviene a saber: ''almohaza'', ''almorzar'', ''alhombra'', ''alguacil'', ''alhucema'', ''almacén'', ''alcancía'' y otros semejantes, que deben ser pocos más; y solos tres tiene nuestra lengua que son moriscos y acaban en ''í'', y son ''borceguí'', ''zaquizamí'' y ''maravedí''; ''alhelí'' y ''alfaquí'', tanto por el ''al'' primero como por el ''í'' en que acaban, son conocidos por arábigos. Esto te he dicho de paso, por habérmelo reducido a la memoria la ocasión de haber nombrado albogues; y hanos de ayudar mucho al parecer en perfeción este ejercicio el ser yo algún tanto poeta, como tú sabes, y el serlo también en estremo el bachiller Sansón Carrasco. Del cura no digo nada, pero yo apostaré que debe de tener sus puntas y collares de poeta; y que las tenga también maese Nicolás, no dudo en ello, porque todos o los más son guitarristas y copleros. Yo me quejaré de ausencia; tú te alabarás de firme enamorado; el pastor Carrascón, de desdeñado; y el cura Curiambro, de lo que él más puede servirse, y, así, andará la cosa, que no haya más que desear. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Miguel de Cervantes'' </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> You can imagine Piglet's joy when at last the ship came in sight of him. In after-years he liked to think that he had been in Very Great Danger during the Terrible Flood, but the only danger he had really been in was in the last half-hour of his imprisonment, when Owl, who had just flown up, sat on a branch of his tree to comfort him, and told him a very long story about an aunt who had once laid a seagull's egg by mistake, and the story went on and on, rather like this sentence, until Piglet who was listening out of his window without much hope, went to sleep quietly and naturally, slipping slowly out of the window towards the water until he was only hanging on by his toes, at which moment luckily, a sudden loud squawk from Owl, which was really part of the story, being what his aunt said, woke the Piglet up and just gave him time to jerk himself back into safety and say, "How interesting, and did she?" when—well, you can imagine his joy when at last he saw the good ship, ''The Brain of Pooh'' (''Captain'', C. Robin; ''1st Mate'', P. Bear) coming over the sea to rescue him. Christopher Robin and Pooh again.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;. And that is really the end of the story, and I am very tired after that last sentence, I think I shall stop there. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Alan Alexander Milne'' </div> </div> </div> {{#babel:ru|he-5|en-4}} tnufgsvozyif3az5zejb346iutj0tva 2845 2842 2026-03-30T18:59:59Z Amire80 22 This reading, though shocking, is beyond disputation. 2845 wikitext text/x-wiki [[File:Snark Bellman.jpg|frameless|center]] ---- <div style="font-family: serif; font-size: x-large;"> <div lang="he" dir="rtl"> <poem> מִקָּצֶה לְקָצֶה זֶה תָּמִיד מִתְמַצֶּה בְּאוֹתָהּ נְקֻדָּה, הַכְּתָמִים מֻפְשָׁטִים, הַלֵּילוֹת מִתְקַצְּרִים לְקַו לָבָן, בֵּין רַקָּה לָרַקָּה נְקָמָה מְתוּקָה, מְנוֹעִים שְׁקֵטִים, [[Special:AllPages|רַכָּבוֹת שֶׁל מִלִּים]] חוֹלְפוֹת כְּמוֹ צְלָלִים מֵעָלַי. </poem> <div style="text-align: left; font-size: medium;"> ''אסף אמדורסקי, יהלי סובול, סיון שביט'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="fr" dir="ltr"> Lorsqu’il aborda la planète il salua respectueusement l’allumeur : « Bonjour. Pourquoi viens-tu d’éteindre ton réverbère ? — C’est la consigne, répondit l’allumeur. Bonjour. — Qu’est-ce que la consigne ? — C’est d’éteindre mon réverbère. Bonsoir. » Et il le ralluma. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'' </div> </div> ---- Only when Professor Duby reminded us that penguins are birds, that they do not swim but ''fly in water'', only then could the therolinguist begin to approach the sea literature of the penguin with understanding; only then could the miles of recordings already on film be restudied and, finally, appreciated. But the difficulty of translation is still with us. A satisfying degree of promise has already been made in Adélie. The difficulties of recording a group kinetic performance in a stormy ocean as thick as pea soup with plankton at a temperature of 31° Fahrenheit are considerable; but the perseverance of the Ross Ice Barrier Literary Circle has been fully rewarded with such passages as “Under the Iceberg,” from the ''Autumn Song''—a passage now world famous in the rendition by Anna Serebryakova of the Leningrad Ballet. No verbal rendering can approach the felicity of Miss Serebryakova's version. For, quite simply, there is no way to reproduce in writing the all-important ''multiplicity'' of the original text, so beautifully rendered by the full chorus of the Leningrad Ballet company. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Ursula K. Le Guin'' </div> ---- <div lang="sv" dir="ltr"> Vem har du med dig? frågade mumintrollet. Det är Ninni, sa Tooticki. Ungen heter Ninni. Hon höll fortfarande upp dörren och väntade. Ingen kom. Nåja, sa Tooticki och ryckte på axlarna. Hon kan ju hålla sig där ute om hon är blyg. Men blir hon inte våt, frågade mumintrollets mamma. Jag vet inte om det gör så mycket när man när man är osynlig, svarade Tooticki och kom fram och satte sig. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Tove Jansson'' </div> </div> ---- — What is this that this is that this thing there? — Sorry, what is this that you have said? — That thing there, what is this that this is? — Oh, dad's beard? — No, the other thing. — You want to say a bald mouse? — No, not that. — Maybe a washing rat? — No... in the sky! — Oh yeah, of course. It's a flying deer.<!-- — A-tchoo! — To your wishes! — A-tchoo! — To your loved ones! — A-tchoo! — And may they last forever! — I call myself Roya, and you? — I call myself Alex, enchanted. — Enchanted, and what age have you? — Me I'm born in one thousand nine hundred four twenty yen eight and I have twenty seven years, and you? — Me I'm born in thousand nine hundred four twenty fourteen, so I have thirty one years. — Oh the cow! — Yeah, that is cowly owl that! — I love you my cabbage! — I love you strong, my fleas. — You miss us a lot. — You miss me too. --> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NaXZVAycV54 ''@atfrenchies, @royaventurera''] </div> ---- <div lang="es" dir="ltr"> —¡Válame Dios —dijo don Quijote—, y qué vida nos hemos de dar, Sancho amigo! ¡Qué de churumbelas han de llegar a nuestros oídos, qué de gaitas zamoranas, qué de tamborines y qué de sonajas y qué de rabeles! Pues ¡qué si destas diferencias de músicas resuena la de los albogues! Allí se verá casi todos los instrumentos pastorales. —¿Qué son albogues —preguntó Sancho—, que ni los he oído nombrar, ni los he visto en toda mi vida? —Albogues son —respondió don Quijote— unas chapas a modo de candeleros de azófar, que dando una con otra por lo vacío y hueco hace un son, que, si no muy agradable ni armónico, no descontenta y viene bien con la rusticidad de la gaita y del tamborín. Y este nombre ''albogues'' es morisco, como lo son todos aquellos que en nuestra lengua castellana comienzan en ''al'', conviene a saber: ''almohaza'', ''almorzar'', ''alhombra'', ''alguacil'', ''alhucema'', ''almacén'', ''alcancía'' y otros semejantes, que deben ser pocos más; y solos tres tiene nuestra lengua que son moriscos y acaban en ''í'', y son ''borceguí'', ''zaquizamí'' y ''maravedí''; ''alhelí'' y ''alfaquí'', tanto por el ''al'' primero como por el ''í'' en que acaban, son conocidos por arábigos. Esto te he dicho de paso, por habérmelo reducido a la memoria la ocasión de haber nombrado albogues; y hanos de ayudar mucho al parecer en perfeción este ejercicio el ser yo algún tanto poeta, como tú sabes, y el serlo también en estremo el bachiller Sansón Carrasco. Del cura no digo nada, pero yo apostaré que debe de tener sus puntas y collares de poeta; y que las tenga también maese Nicolás, no dudo en ello, porque todos o los más son guitarristas y copleros. Yo me quejaré de ausencia; tú te alabarás de firme enamorado; el pastor Carrascón, de desdeñado; y el cura Curiambro, de lo que él más puede servirse, y, así, andará la cosa, que no haya más que desear. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Miguel de Cervantes'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> You can imagine Piglet's joy when at last the ship came in sight of him. In after-years he liked to think that he had been in Very Great Danger during the Terrible Flood, but the only danger he had really been in was in the last half-hour of his imprisonment, when Owl, who had just flown up, sat on a branch of his tree to comfort him, and told him a very long story about an aunt who had once laid a seagull's egg by mistake, and the story went on and on, rather like this sentence, until Piglet who was listening out of his window without much hope, went to sleep quietly and naturally, slipping slowly out of the window towards the water until he was only hanging on by his toes, at which moment luckily, a sudden loud squawk from Owl, which was really part of the story, being what his aunt said, woke the Piglet up and just gave him time to jerk himself back into safety and say, “How interesting, and did she?” when—well, you can imagine his joy when at last he saw the good ship, ''The Brain of Pooh'' (''Captain'', C. Robin; ''1st Mate'', P. Bear) coming over the sea to rescue him. Christopher Robin and Pooh again.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;. And that is really the end of the story, and I am very tired after that last sentence, I think I shall stop there. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Alan Alexander Milne'' </div> </div> </div> {{#babel:ru|he-5|en-4}} 07fdvgw4wlkzw0yqvxj42yfklr60ref 2846 2845 2026-03-30T19:00:50Z Amire80 22 ---- 2846 wikitext text/x-wiki [[File:Snark Bellman.jpg|frameless|center]] ---- <div style="font-family: serif; font-size: x-large;"> <div lang="he" dir="rtl"> <poem> מִקָּצֶה לְקָצֶה זֶה תָּמִיד מִתְמַצֶּה בְּאוֹתָהּ נְקֻדָּה, הַכְּתָמִים מֻפְשָׁטִים, הַלֵּילוֹת מִתְקַצְּרִים לְקַו לָבָן, בֵּין רַקָּה לָרַקָּה נְקָמָה מְתוּקָה, מְנוֹעִים שְׁקֵטִים, [[Special:AllPages|רַכָּבוֹת שֶׁל מִלִּים]] חוֹלְפוֹת כְּמוֹ צְלָלִים מֵעָלַי. </poem> <div style="text-align: left; font-size: medium;"> ''אסף אמדורסקי, יהלי סובול, סיון שביט'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="fr" dir="ltr"> Lorsqu’il aborda la planète il salua respectueusement l’allumeur : « Bonjour. Pourquoi viens-tu d’éteindre ton réverbère ? — C’est la consigne, répondit l’allumeur. Bonjour. — Qu’est-ce que la consigne ? — C’est d’éteindre mon réverbère. Bonsoir. » Et il le ralluma. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'' </div> </div> ---- Only when Professor Duby reminded us that penguins are birds, that they do not swim but ''fly in water'', only then could the therolinguist begin to approach the sea literature of the penguin with understanding; only then could the miles of recordings already on film be restudied and, finally, appreciated. But the difficulty of translation is still with us. A satisfying degree of promise has already been made in Adélie. The difficulties of recording a group kinetic performance in a stormy ocean as thick as pea soup with plankton at a temperature of 31° Fahrenheit are considerable; but the perseverance of the Ross Ice Barrier Literary Circle has been fully rewarded with such passages as “Under the Iceberg,” from the ''Autumn Song''—a passage now world famous in the rendition by Anna Serebryakova of the Leningrad Ballet. No verbal rendering can approach the felicity of Miss Serebryakova's version. For, quite simply, there is no way to reproduce in writing the all-important ''multiplicity'' of the original text, so beautifully rendered by the full chorus of the Leningrad Ballet company. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Ursula K. Le Guin'' </div> ---- <div lang="sv" dir="ltr"> Vem har du med dig? frågade mumintrollet. Det är Ninni, sa Tooticki. Ungen heter Ninni. Hon höll fortfarande upp dörren och väntade. Ingen kom. Nåja, sa Tooticki och ryckte på axlarna. Hon kan ju hålla sig där ute om hon är blyg. Men blir hon inte våt, frågade mumintrollets mamma. Jag vet inte om det gör så mycket när man när man är osynlig, svarade Tooticki och kom fram och satte sig. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Tove Jansson'' </div> </div> ---- — What is this that this is that this thing there? — Sorry, what is this that you have said? — That thing there, what is this that this is? — Oh, dad's beard? — No, the other thing. — You want to say a bald mouse? — No, not that. — Maybe a washing rat? — No... in the sky! — Oh yeah, of course. It's a flying deer.<!-- — A-tchoo! — To your wishes! — A-tchoo! — To your loved ones! — A-tchoo! — And may they last forever! — I call myself Roya, and you? — I call myself Alex, enchanted. — Enchanted, and what age have you? — Me I'm born in one thousand nine hundred four twenty yen eight and I have twenty seven years, and you? — Me I'm born in thousand nine hundred four twenty fourteen, so I have thirty one years. — Oh the cow! — Yeah, that is cowly owl that! — I love you my cabbage! — I love you strong, my fleas. — You miss us a lot. — You miss me too. --> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NaXZVAycV54 ''@atfrenchies, @royaventurera''] </div> ---- <div lang="es" dir="ltr"> —¡Válame Dios —dijo don Quijote—, y qué vida nos hemos de dar, Sancho amigo! ¡Qué de churumbelas han de llegar a nuestros oídos, qué de gaitas zamoranas, qué de tamborines y qué de sonajas y qué de rabeles! Pues ¡qué si destas diferencias de músicas resuena la de los albogues! Allí se verá casi todos los instrumentos pastorales. —¿Qué son albogues —preguntó Sancho—, que ni los he oído nombrar, ni los he visto en toda mi vida? —Albogues son —respondió don Quijote— unas chapas a modo de candeleros de azófar, que dando una con otra por lo vacío y hueco hace un son, que, si no muy agradable ni armónico, no descontenta y viene bien con la rusticidad de la gaita y del tamborín. Y este nombre ''albogues'' es morisco, como lo son todos aquellos que en nuestra lengua castellana comienzan en ''al'', conviene a saber: ''almohaza'', ''almorzar'', ''alhombra'', ''alguacil'', ''alhucema'', ''almacén'', ''alcancía'' y otros semejantes, que deben ser pocos más; y solos tres tiene nuestra lengua que son moriscos y acaban en ''í'', y son ''borceguí'', ''zaquizamí'' y ''maravedí''; ''alhelí'' y ''alfaquí'', tanto por el ''al'' primero como por el ''í'' en que acaban, son conocidos por arábigos. Esto te he dicho de paso, por habérmelo reducido a la memoria la ocasión de haber nombrado albogues; y hanos de ayudar mucho al parecer en perfeción este ejercicio el ser yo algún tanto poeta, como tú sabes, y el serlo también en estremo el bachiller Sansón Carrasco. Del cura no digo nada, pero yo apostaré que debe de tener sus puntas y collares de poeta; y que las tenga también maese Nicolás, no dudo en ello, porque todos o los más son guitarristas y copleros. Yo me quejaré de ausencia; tú te alabarás de firme enamorado; el pastor Carrascón, de desdeñado; y el cura Curiambro, de lo que él más puede servirse, y, así, andará la cosa, que no haya más que desear. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Miguel de Cervantes'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> You can imagine Piglet's joy when at last the ship came in sight of him. In after-years he liked to think that he had been in Very Great Danger during the Terrible Flood, but the only danger he had really been in was in the last half-hour of his imprisonment, when Owl, who had just flown up, sat on a branch of his tree to comfort him, and told him a very long story about an aunt who had once laid a seagull's egg by mistake, and the story went on and on, rather like this sentence, until Piglet who was listening out of his window without much hope, went to sleep quietly and naturally, slipping slowly out of the window towards the water until he was only hanging on by his toes, at which moment luckily, a sudden loud squawk from Owl, which was really part of the story, being what his aunt said, woke the Piglet up and just gave him time to jerk himself back into safety and say, “How interesting, and did she?” when—well, you can imagine his joy when at last he saw the good ship, ''The Brain of Pooh'' (''Captain'', C. Robin; ''1st Mate'', P. Bear) coming over the sea to rescue him. Christopher Robin and Pooh again.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;. And that is really the end of the story, and I am very tired after that last sentence, I think I shall stop there. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Alan Alexander Milne'' </div> </div> </div> ---- {{#babel:ru|he-5|en-4}} h8cb0na1z8f2klzuo1rpwfrnzd2kxcl 2847 2846 2026-03-30T19:17:06Z Amire80 22 ’ 2847 wikitext text/x-wiki [[File:Snark Bellman.jpg|frameless|center]] ---- <div style="font-family: serif; font-size: x-large;"> <div lang="he" dir="rtl"> <poem> מִקָּצֶה לְקָצֶה זֶה תָּמִיד מִתְמַצֶּה בְּאוֹתָהּ נְקֻדָּה, הַכְּתָמִים מֻפְשָׁטִים, הַלֵּילוֹת מִתְקַצְּרִים לְקַו לָבָן, בֵּין רַקָּה לָרַקָּה נְקָמָה מְתוּקָה, מְנוֹעִים שְׁקֵטִים, [[Special:AllPages|רַכָּבוֹת שֶׁל מִלִּים]] חוֹלְפוֹת כְּמוֹ צְלָלִים מֵעָלַי. </poem> <div style="text-align: left; font-size: medium;"> ''אסף אמדורסקי, יהלי סובול, סיון שביט'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="fr" dir="ltr"> Lorsqu’il aborda la planète il salua respectueusement l’allumeur : « Bonjour. Pourquoi viens-tu d’éteindre ton réverbère ? — C’est la consigne, répondit l’allumeur. Bonjour. — Qu’est-ce que la consigne ? — C’est d’éteindre mon réverbère. Bonsoir. » Et il le ralluma. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'' </div> </div> ---- Only when Professor Duby reminded us that penguins are birds, that they do not swim but ''fly in water'', only then could the therolinguist begin to approach the sea literature of the penguin with understanding; only then could the miles of recordings already on film be restudied and, finally, appreciated. But the difficulty of translation is still with us. A satisfying degree of promise has already been made in Adélie. The difficulties of recording a group kinetic performance in a stormy ocean as thick as pea soup with plankton at a temperature of 31° Fahrenheit are considerable; but the perseverance of the Ross Ice Barrier Literary Circle has been fully rewarded with such passages as “Under the Iceberg,” from the ''Autumn Song''—a passage now world famous in the rendition by Anna Serebryakova of the Leningrad Ballet. No verbal rendering can approach the felicity of Miss Serebryakova’s version. For, quite simply, there is no way to reproduce in writing the all-important ''multiplicity'' of the original text, so beautifully rendered by the full chorus of the Leningrad Ballet company. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Ursula K. Le Guin'' </div> ---- <div lang="sv" dir="ltr"> Vem har du med dig? frågade mumintrollet. Det är Ninni, sa Tooticki. Ungen heter Ninni. Hon höll fortfarande upp dörren och väntade. Ingen kom. Nåja, sa Tooticki och ryckte på axlarna. Hon kan ju hålla sig där ute om hon är blyg. Men blir hon inte våt, frågade mumintrollets mamma. Jag vet inte om det gör så mycket när man när man är osynlig, svarade Tooticki och kom fram och satte sig. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Tove Jansson'' </div> </div> ---- — What is this that this is that this thing there? — Sorry, what is this that you have said? — That thing there, what is this that this is? — Oh, dad’s beard? — No, the other thing. — You want to say a bald mouse? — No, not that. — Maybe a washing rat? — No... in the sky! — Oh yeah, of course. It’s a flying deer.<!-- — A-tchoo! — To your wishes! — A-tchoo! — To your loved ones! — A-tchoo! — And may they last forever! — I call myself Roya, and you? — I call myself Alex, enchanted. — Enchanted, and what age have you? — Me I'm born in one thousand nine hundred four twenty yen eight and I have twenty-seven years, and you? — Me I'm born in thousand nine hundred four twenty fourteen, so I have thirty-one years. — Oh the cow! — Yeah, that is cowly owl that! — I love you my cabbage! — I love you strong, my fleas. — You miss us a lot. — You miss me too. --> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NaXZVAycV54 ''@atfrenchies, @royaventurera''] </div> ---- <div lang="es" dir="ltr"> —¡Válame Dios —dijo don Quijote—, y qué vida nos hemos de dar, Sancho amigo! ¡Qué de churumbelas han de llegar a nuestros oídos, qué de gaitas zamoranas, qué de tamborines y qué de sonajas y qué de rabeles! Pues ¡qué si destas diferencias de músicas resuena la de los albogues! Allí se verá casi todos los instrumentos pastorales. —¿Qué son albogues —preguntó Sancho—, que ni los he oído nombrar, ni los he visto en toda mi vida? —Albogues son —respondió don Quijote— unas chapas a modo de candeleros de azófar, que dando una con otra por lo vacío y hueco hace un son, que, si no muy agradable ni armónico, no descontenta y viene bien con la rusticidad de la gaita y del tamborín. Y este nombre ''albogues'' es morisco, como lo son todos aquellos que en nuestra lengua castellana comienzan en ''al'', conviene a saber: ''almohaza'', ''almorzar'', ''alhombra'', ''alguacil'', ''alhucema'', ''almacén'', ''alcancía'' y otros semejantes, que deben ser pocos más; y solos tres tiene nuestra lengua que son moriscos y acaban en ''í'', y son ''borceguí'', ''zaquizamí'' y ''maravedí''; ''alhelí'' y ''alfaquí'', tanto por el ''al'' primero como por el ''í'' en que acaban, son conocidos por arábigos. Esto te he dicho de paso, por habérmelo reducido a la memoria la ocasión de haber nombrado albogues; y hanos de ayudar mucho al parecer en perfeción este ejercicio el ser yo algún tanto poeta, como tú sabes, y el serlo también en estremo el bachiller Sansón Carrasco. Del cura no digo nada, pero yo apostaré que debe de tener sus puntas y collares de poeta; y que las tenga también maese Nicolás, no dudo en ello, porque todos o los más son guitarristas y copleros. Yo me quejaré de ausencia; tú te alabarás de firme enamorado; el pastor Carrascón, de desdeñado; y el cura Curiambro, de lo que él más puede servirse, y, así, andará la cosa, que no haya más que desear. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Miguel de Cervantes'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> You can imagine Piglet’s joy when at last the ship came in sight of him. In after-years he liked to think that he had been in Very Great Danger during the Terrible Flood, but the only danger he had really been in was in the last half-hour of his imprisonment, when Owl, who had just flown up, sat on a branch of his tree to comfort him, and told him a very long story about an aunt who had once laid a seagull’s egg by mistake, and the story went on and on, rather like this sentence, until Piglet who was listening out of his window without much hope, went to sleep quietly and naturally, slipping slowly out of the window towards the water until he was only hanging on by his toes, at which moment luckily, a sudden loud squawk from Owl, which was really part of the story, being what his aunt said, woke the Piglet up and just gave him time to jerk himself back into safety and say, “How interesting, and did she?” when—well, you can imagine his joy when at last he saw the good ship, ''The Brain of Pooh'' (''Captain'', C. Robin; ''1st Mate'', P. Bear) coming over the sea to rescue him. Christopher Robin and Pooh again.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;. And that is really the end of the story, and I am very tired after that last sentence, I think I shall stop there. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Alan Alexander Milne'' </div> </div> </div> ---- {{#babel:ru|he-5|en-4}} kajonjkjxucop8m3i1k7hkj8mxzzv1t 2848 2847 2026-03-30T19:28:44Z Amire80 22 . 2848 wikitext text/x-wiki [[File:Snark Bellman.jpg|frameless|center]] ---- <div style="font-family: serif; font-size: x-large;"> <div lang="he" dir="rtl"> <poem> מִקָּצֶה לְקָצֶה זֶה תָּמִיד מִתְמַצֶּה בְּאוֹתָהּ נְקֻדָּה, הַכְּתָמִים מֻפְשָׁטִים, הַלֵּילוֹת מִתְקַצְּרִים לְקַו לָבָן. בֵּין רַקָּה לָרַקָּה נְקָמָה מְתוּקָה, מְנוֹעִים שְׁקֵטִים, [[Special:AllPages|רַכָּבוֹת שֶׁל מִלִּים]] חוֹלְפוֹת כְּמוֹ צְלָלִים מֵעָלַי. </poem> <div style="text-align: left; font-size: medium;"> ''אסף אמדורסקי, יהלי סובול, סיון שביט'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="fr" dir="ltr"> Lorsqu’il aborda la planète il salua respectueusement l’allumeur : « Bonjour. Pourquoi viens-tu d’éteindre ton réverbère ? — C’est la consigne, répondit l’allumeur. Bonjour. — Qu’est-ce que la consigne ? — C’est d’éteindre mon réverbère. Bonsoir. » Et il le ralluma. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'' </div> </div> ---- Only when Professor Duby reminded us that penguins are birds, that they do not swim but ''fly in water'', only then could the therolinguist begin to approach the sea literature of the penguin with understanding; only then could the miles of recordings already on film be restudied and, finally, appreciated. But the difficulty of translation is still with us. A satisfying degree of promise has already been made in Adélie. The difficulties of recording a group kinetic performance in a stormy ocean as thick as pea soup with plankton at a temperature of 31° Fahrenheit are considerable; but the perseverance of the Ross Ice Barrier Literary Circle has been fully rewarded with such passages as “Under the Iceberg,” from the ''Autumn Song''—a passage now world famous in the rendition by Anna Serebryakova of the Leningrad Ballet. No verbal rendering can approach the felicity of Miss Serebryakova’s version. For, quite simply, there is no way to reproduce in writing the all-important ''multiplicity'' of the original text, so beautifully rendered by the full chorus of the Leningrad Ballet company. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Ursula K. Le Guin'' </div> ---- <div lang="sv" dir="ltr"> Vem har du med dig? frågade mumintrollet. Det är Ninni, sa Tooticki. Ungen heter Ninni. Hon höll fortfarande upp dörren och väntade. Ingen kom. Nåja, sa Tooticki och ryckte på axlarna. Hon kan ju hålla sig där ute om hon är blyg. Men blir hon inte våt, frågade mumintrollets mamma. Jag vet inte om det gör så mycket när man när man är osynlig, svarade Tooticki och kom fram och satte sig. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Tove Jansson'' </div> </div> ---- — What is this that this is that this thing there? — Sorry, what is this that you have said? — That thing there, what is this that this is? — Oh, dad’s beard? — No, the other thing. — You want to say a bald mouse? — No, not that. — Maybe a washing rat? — No... in the sky! — Oh yeah, of course. It’s a flying deer.<!-- — A-tchoo! — To your wishes! — A-tchoo! — To your loved ones! — A-tchoo! — And may they last forever! — I call myself Roya, and you? — I call myself Alex, enchanted. — Enchanted, and what age have you? — Me I'm born in one thousand nine hundred four twenty yen eight and I have twenty-seven years, and you? — Me I'm born in thousand nine hundred four twenty fourteen, so I have thirty-one years. — Oh the cow! — Yeah, that is cowly owl that! — I love you my cabbage! — I love you strong, my fleas. — You miss us a lot. — You miss me too. --> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NaXZVAycV54 ''@atfrenchies, @royaventurera''] </div> ---- <div lang="es" dir="ltr"> —¡Válame Dios —dijo don Quijote—, y qué vida nos hemos de dar, Sancho amigo! ¡Qué de churumbelas han de llegar a nuestros oídos, qué de gaitas zamoranas, qué de tamborines y qué de sonajas y qué de rabeles! Pues ¡qué si destas diferencias de músicas resuena la de los albogues! Allí se verá casi todos los instrumentos pastorales. —¿Qué son albogues —preguntó Sancho—, que ni los he oído nombrar, ni los he visto en toda mi vida? —Albogues son —respondió don Quijote— unas chapas a modo de candeleros de azófar, que dando una con otra por lo vacío y hueco hace un son, que, si no muy agradable ni armónico, no descontenta y viene bien con la rusticidad de la gaita y del tamborín. Y este nombre ''albogues'' es morisco, como lo son todos aquellos que en nuestra lengua castellana comienzan en ''al'', conviene a saber: ''almohaza'', ''almorzar'', ''alhombra'', ''alguacil'', ''alhucema'', ''almacén'', ''alcancía'' y otros semejantes, que deben ser pocos más; y solos tres tiene nuestra lengua que son moriscos y acaban en ''í'', y son ''borceguí'', ''zaquizamí'' y ''maravedí''; ''alhelí'' y ''alfaquí'', tanto por el ''al'' primero como por el ''í'' en que acaban, son conocidos por arábigos. Esto te he dicho de paso, por habérmelo reducido a la memoria la ocasión de haber nombrado albogues; y hanos de ayudar mucho al parecer en perfeción este ejercicio el ser yo algún tanto poeta, como tú sabes, y el serlo también en estremo el bachiller Sansón Carrasco. Del cura no digo nada, pero yo apostaré que debe de tener sus puntas y collares de poeta; y que las tenga también maese Nicolás, no dudo en ello, porque todos o los más son guitarristas y copleros. Yo me quejaré de ausencia; tú te alabarás de firme enamorado; el pastor Carrascón, de desdeñado; y el cura Curiambro, de lo que él más puede servirse, y, así, andará la cosa, que no haya más que desear. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Miguel de Cervantes'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> You can imagine Piglet’s joy when at last the ship came in sight of him. In after-years he liked to think that he had been in Very Great Danger during the Terrible Flood, but the only danger he had really been in was in the last half-hour of his imprisonment, when Owl, who had just flown up, sat on a branch of his tree to comfort him, and told him a very long story about an aunt who had once laid a seagull’s egg by mistake, and the story went on and on, rather like this sentence, until Piglet who was listening out of his window without much hope, went to sleep quietly and naturally, slipping slowly out of the window towards the water until he was only hanging on by his toes, at which moment luckily, a sudden loud squawk from Owl, which was really part of the story, being what his aunt said, woke the Piglet up and just gave him time to jerk himself back into safety and say, “How interesting, and did she?” when—well, you can imagine his joy when at last he saw the good ship, ''The Brain of Pooh'' (''Captain'', C. Robin; ''1st Mate'', P. Bear) coming over the sea to rescue him. Christopher Robin and Pooh again.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;. And that is really the end of the story, and I am very tired after that last sentence, I think I shall stop there. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Alan Alexander Milne'' </div> </div> </div> ---- {{#babel:ru|he-5|en-4}} 61290udubx66mwhprnp8qh6675ygh92 2851 2848 2026-03-30T19:44:11Z Amire80 22 nbsp 2851 wikitext text/x-wiki [[File:Snark Bellman.jpg|frameless|center]] ---- <div style="font-family: serif; font-size: x-large;"> <div lang="he" dir="rtl"> <poem> מִקָּצֶה לְקָצֶה זֶה תָּמִיד מִתְמַצֶּה בְּאוֹתָהּ נְקֻדָּה, הַכְּתָמִים מֻפְשָׁטִים, הַלֵּילוֹת מִתְקַצְּרִים לְקַו לָבָן. בֵּין רַקָּה לָרַקָּה נְקָמָה מְתוּקָה, מְנוֹעִים שְׁקֵטִים, [[Special:AllPages|רַכָּבוֹת שֶׁל מִלִּים]] חוֹלְפוֹת כְּמוֹ צְלָלִים מֵעָלַי. </poem> <div style="text-align: left; font-size: medium;"> ''אסף אמדורסקי, יהלי סובול, סיון שביט'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="fr" dir="ltr"> Lorsqu’il aborda la planète il salua respectueusement l’allumeur&thinsp;: «&thinsp;Bonjour. Pourquoi viens-tu d’éteindre ton réverbère&thinsp;? — C’est la consigne, répondit l’allumeur. Bonjour. — Qu’est-ce que la consigne&thinsp;? — C’est d’éteindre mon réverbère. Bonsoir.&thinsp;» Et il le ralluma. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'' </div> </div> ---- Only when Professor Duby reminded us that penguins are birds, that they do not swim but ''fly in water'', only then could the therolinguist begin to approach the sea literature of the penguin with understanding; only then could the miles of recordings already on film be restudied and, finally, appreciated. But the difficulty of translation is still with us. A satisfying degree of promise has already been made in Adélie. The difficulties of recording a group kinetic performance in a stormy ocean as thick as pea soup with plankton at a temperature of 31°&nbsp;Fahrenheit are considerable; but the perseverance of the Ross Ice Barrier Literary Circle has been fully rewarded with such passages as “Under the Iceberg,” from the ''Autumn Song''—a passage now world famous in the rendition by Anna Serebryakova of the Leningrad Ballet. No verbal rendering can approach the felicity of Miss Serebryakova’s version. For, quite simply, there is no way to reproduce in writing the all-important ''multiplicity'' of the original text, so beautifully rendered by the full chorus of the Leningrad Ballet company. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Ursula&nbsp;K.&nbsp;Le&nbsp;Guin'' </div> ---- <div lang="sv" dir="ltr"> Vem har du med dig? frågade mumintrollet. Det är Ninni, sa Tooticki. Ungen heter Ninni. Hon höll fortfarande upp dörren och väntade. Ingen kom. Nåja, sa Tooticki och ryckte på axlarna. Hon kan ju hålla sig där ute om hon är blyg. Men blir hon inte våt, frågade mumintrollets mamma. Jag vet inte om det gör så mycket när man när man är osynlig, svarade Tooticki och kom fram och satte sig. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Tove Jansson'' </div> </div> ---- — What is this that this is that this thing there? — Sorry, what is this that you have said? — That thing there, what is this that this is? — Oh, dad’s beard? — No, the other thing. — You want to say a bald mouse? — No, not that. — Maybe a washing rat? — No... in the sky! — Oh yeah, of course. It’s a flying deer.<!-- — A-tchoo! — To your wishes! — A-tchoo! — To your loved ones! — A-tchoo! — And may they last forever! — I call myself Roya, and you? — I call myself Alex, enchanted. — Enchanted, and what age have you? — Me I'm born in one thousand nine hundred four twenty yen eight and I have twenty-seven years, and you? — Me I'm born in thousand nine hundred four twenty fourteen, so I have thirty-one years. — Oh the cow! — Yeah, that is cowly owl that! — I love you my cabbage! — I love you strong, my fleas. — You miss us a lot. — You miss me too. --> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NaXZVAycV54 ''@atfrenchies, @royaventurera''] </div> ---- <div lang="es" dir="ltr"> —¡Válame Dios —dijo don Quijote—, y qué vida nos hemos de dar, Sancho amigo! ¡Qué de churumbelas han de llegar a nuestros oídos, qué de gaitas zamoranas, qué de tamborines y qué de sonajas y qué de rabeles! Pues ¡qué si destas diferencias de músicas resuena la de los albogues! Allí se verá casi todos los instrumentos pastorales. —¿Qué son albogues —preguntó Sancho—, que ni los he oído nombrar, ni los he visto en toda mi vida? —Albogues son —respondió don Quijote— unas chapas a modo de candeleros de azófar, que dando una con otra por lo vacío y hueco hace un son, que, si no muy agradable ni armónico, no descontenta y viene bien con la rusticidad de la gaita y del tamborín. Y este nombre ''albogues'' es morisco, como lo son todos aquellos que en nuestra lengua castellana comienzan en ''al'', conviene a saber: ''almohaza'', ''almorzar'', ''alhombra'', ''alguacil'', ''alhucema'', ''almacén'', ''alcancía'' y otros semejantes, que deben ser pocos más; y solos tres tiene nuestra lengua que son moriscos y acaban en ''í'', y son ''borceguí'', ''zaquizamí'' y ''maravedí''; ''alhelí'' y ''alfaquí'', tanto por el ''al'' primero como por el ''í'' en que acaban, son conocidos por arábigos. Esto te he dicho de paso, por habérmelo reducido a la memoria la ocasión de haber nombrado albogues; y hanos de ayudar mucho al parecer en perfeción este ejercicio el ser yo algún tanto poeta, como tú sabes, y el serlo también en estremo el bachiller Sansón Carrasco. Del cura no digo nada, pero yo apostaré que debe de tener sus puntas y collares de poeta; y que las tenga también maese Nicolás, no dudo en ello, porque todos o los más son guitarristas y copleros. Yo me quejaré de ausencia; tú te alabarás de firme enamorado; el pastor Carrascón, de desdeñado; y el cura Curiambro, de lo que él más puede servirse, y, así, andará la cosa, que no haya más que desear. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Miguel de Cervantes'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> You can imagine Piglet’s joy when at last the ship came in sight of him. In after-years he liked to think that he had been in Very Great Danger during the Terrible Flood, but the only danger he had really been in was in the last half-hour of his imprisonment, when Owl, who had just flown up, sat on a branch of his tree to comfort him, and told him a very long story about an aunt who had once laid a seagull’s egg by mistake, and the story went on and on, rather like this sentence, until Piglet who was listening out of his window without much hope, went to sleep quietly and naturally, slipping slowly out of the window towards the water until he was only hanging on by his toes, at which moment luckily, a sudden loud squawk from Owl, which was really part of the story, being what his aunt said, woke the Piglet up and just gave him time to jerk himself back into safety and say, “How interesting, and did she?” when—well, you can imagine his joy when at last he saw the good ship, ''The Brain of Pooh'' (''Captain'', C.&nbsp;Robin; ''1st Mate'', P.&nbsp;Bear) coming over the sea to rescue him. Christopher Robin and Pooh again.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;. And that is really the end of the story, and I am very tired after that last sentence, I think I shall stop there. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Alan Alexander Milne'' </div> </div> </div> ---- {{#babel:ru|he-5|en-4}} e45zcag5zbkx8at62znvyj24r17221f 2858 2851 2026-03-30T22:51:26Z Amire80 22 Og kammerherrerne gik og bar på slæbet, som der slet ikke var. 2858 wikitext text/x-wiki [[File:Snark Bellman.jpg|frameless|center]] ---- <div style="font-family: serif; font-size: x-large;"> <div lang="he" dir="rtl"> <poem> מִקָּצֶה לְקָצֶה זֶה תָּמִיד מִתְמַצֶּה בְּאוֹתָהּ נְקֻדָּה, הַכְּתָמִים מֻפְשָׁטִים, הַלֵּילוֹת מִתְקַצְּרִים לְקַו לָבָן. בֵּין רַקָּה לָרַקָּה נְקָמָה מְתוּקָה, מְנוֹעִים שְׁקֵטִים, [[Special:AllPages|רַכָּבוֹת שֶׁל מִלִּים]] חוֹלְפוֹת כְּמוֹ צְלָלִים מֵעָלַי. </poem> <div style="text-align: left; font-size: medium;"> ''אסף אמדורסקי, יהלי סובול, סיון שביט'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="fr" dir="ltr"> Lorsqu’il aborda la planète il salua respectueusement l’allumeur&thinsp;: «&thinsp;Bonjour. Pourquoi viens-tu d’éteindre ton réverbère&thinsp;? — C’est la consigne, répondit l’allumeur. Bonjour. — Qu’est-ce que la consigne&thinsp;? — C’est d’éteindre mon réverbère. Bonsoir.&thinsp;» Et il le ralluma. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'' </div> </div> ---- Only when Professor Duby reminded us that penguins are birds, that they do not swim but ''fly in water'', only then could the therolinguist begin to approach the sea literature of the penguin with understanding; only then could the miles of recordings already on film be restudied and, finally, appreciated. But the difficulty of translation is still with us. A satisfying degree of promise has already been made in Adélie. The difficulties of recording a group kinetic performance in a stormy ocean as thick as pea soup with plankton at a temperature of 31°&nbsp;Fahrenheit are considerable; but the perseverance of the Ross Ice Barrier Literary Circle has been fully rewarded with such passages as “Under the Iceberg,” from the ''Autumn Song''—a passage now world famous in the rendition by Anna Serebryakova of the Leningrad Ballet. No verbal rendering can approach the felicity of Miss Serebryakova’s version. For, quite simply, there is no way to reproduce in writing the all-important ''multiplicity'' of the original text, so beautifully rendered by the full chorus of the Leningrad Ballet company. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Ursula&nbsp;K.&nbsp;Le&nbsp;Guin'' </div> ---- <div lang="sv" dir="ltr"> Vem har du med dig? frågade mumintrollet. Det är Ninni, sa Tooticki. Ungen heter Ninni. Hon höll fortfarande upp dörren och väntade. Ingen kom. Nåja, sa Tooticki och ryckte på axlarna. Hon kan ju hålla sig där ute om hon är blyg. Men blir hon inte våt, frågade mumintrollets mamma. Jag vet inte om det gör så mycket när man när man är osynlig, svarade Tooticki och kom fram och satte sig. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Tove Jansson'' </div> </div> ---- — What is this that this is that this thing there? — Sorry, what is this that you have said? — That thing there, what is this that this is? — Oh, dad’s beard? — No, the other thing. — You want to say a bald mouse? — No, not that. — Maybe a washing rat? — No... in the sky! — Oh yeah, of course. It’s a flying deer.<!-- — A-tchoo! — To your wishes! — A-tchoo! — To your loved ones! — A-tchoo! — And may they last forever! — I call myself Roya, and you? — I call myself Alex, enchanted. — Enchanted, and what age have you? — Me I’m born in one thousand nine hundred four twenty yen eight and I have twenty-seven years, and you? — Me I’m born in thousand nine hundred four twenty fourteen, so I have thirty-one years. — Oh the cow! — Yeah, that is cowly owl that! — I love you my cabbage! — I love you strong, my fleas. — You miss us a lot. — You miss me too. --> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NaXZVAycV54 ''@atfrenchies, @royaventurera''] </div> ---- <div lang="da" dir="ltr"> Så gik kejseren i processionen under den dejlige tronhimmel og alle mennesker på gaden og i vinduerne sagde: »Gud hvor kejserens nye klæder er mageløse! hvilket dejligt slæb han har på kjolen! hvor den sidder velsignet!« Ingen ville lade sig mærke med, at han intet så, for så havde han jo ikke duet i sit embede, eller været meget dum. Ingen af kejserens klæder havde gjort sådan lykke. »Men han har jo ikke noget på,« sagde et lille barn. »Herregud, hør den uskyldiges røst,« sagde faderen; og den ene hviskede til den anden, hvad barnet sagde. »Men han har jo ikke noget på,« råbte til sidst hele folket. Det krøb i kejseren, thi han syntes, de havde ret, men han tænkte som så: »Nu må jeg holde processionen ud.« Og kammerherrerne gik og bar på slæbet, som der slet ikke var. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Hans Christian Andersen'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> Alice had been looking over his shoulder with some curiosity. “What a funny watch!” she remarked. “It tells the day of the month, and doesn’t tell what o’clock it is!” “Why should it?” muttered the Hatter. “Does ''your'' watch tell you what year it is?” “Of course not,” Alice replied very readily: “but that’s because it stays the same year for such a long time together.” “Which is just the case with ''mine'',” said the Hatter. Alice felt dreadfully puzzled. The Hatter’s remark seemed to her to have no sort of meaning in it, and yet it was certainly English. “I don’t quite understand you,” she said, as politely as she could. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Lewis Carroll'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="es" dir="ltr"> —¡Válame Dios —dijo don Quijote—, y qué vida nos hemos de dar, Sancho amigo! ¡Qué de churumbelas han de llegar a nuestros oídos, qué de gaitas zamoranas, qué de tamborines y qué de sonajas y qué de rabeles! Pues ¡qué si destas diferencias de músicas resuena la de los albogues! Allí se verá casi todos los instrumentos pastorales. —¿Qué son albogues —preguntó Sancho—, que ni los he oído nombrar, ni los he visto en toda mi vida? —Albogues son —respondió don Quijote— unas chapas a modo de candeleros de azófar, que dando una con otra por lo vacío y hueco hace un son, que, si no muy agradable ni armónico, no descontenta y viene bien con la rusticidad de la gaita y del tamborín. Y este nombre ''albogues'' es morisco, como lo son todos aquellos que en nuestra lengua castellana comienzan en ''al'', conviene a saber: ''almohaza'', ''almorzar'', ''alhombra'', ''alguacil'', ''alhucema'', ''almacén'', ''alcancía'' y otros semejantes, que deben ser pocos más; y solos tres tiene nuestra lengua que son moriscos y acaban en ''í'', y son ''borceguí'', ''zaquizamí'' y ''maravedí''; ''alhelí'' y ''alfaquí'', tanto por el ''al'' primero como por el ''í'' en que acaban, son conocidos por arábigos. Esto te he dicho de paso, por habérmelo reducido a la memoria la ocasión de haber nombrado albogues; y hanos de ayudar mucho al parecer en perfeción este ejercicio el ser yo algún tanto poeta, como tú sabes, y el serlo también en estremo el bachiller Sansón Carrasco. Del cura no digo nada, pero yo apostaré que debe de tener sus puntas y collares de poeta; y que las tenga también maese Nicolás, no dudo en ello, porque todos o los más son guitarristas y copleros. Yo me quejaré de ausencia; tú te alabarás de firme enamorado; el pastor Carrascón, de desdeñado; y el cura Curiambro, de lo que él más puede servirse, y, así, andará la cosa, que no haya más que desear. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Miguel de Cervantes'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> You can imagine Piglet’s joy when at last the ship came in sight of him. In after-years he liked to think that he had been in Very Great Danger during the Terrible Flood, but the only danger he had really been in was in the last half-hour of his imprisonment, when Owl, who had just flown up, sat on a branch of his tree to comfort him, and told him a very long story about an aunt who had once laid a seagull’s egg by mistake, and the story went on and on, rather like this sentence, until Piglet who was listening out of his window without much hope, went to sleep quietly and naturally, slipping slowly out of the window towards the water until he was only hanging on by his toes, at which moment luckily, a sudden loud squawk from Owl, which was really part of the story, being what his aunt said, woke the Piglet up and just gave him time to jerk himself back into safety and say, “How interesting, and did she?” when—well, you can imagine his joy when at last he saw the good ship, ''The Brain of Pooh'' (''Captain'', C.&nbsp;Robin; ''1st Mate'', P.&nbsp;Bear) coming over the sea to rescue him. Christopher Robin and Pooh again.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;. And that is really the end of the story, and I am very tired after that last sentence, I think I shall stop there. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Alan Alexander Milne'' </div> </div> </div> ---- {{#babel:ru|he-5|en-4}} 63z3q2ptdd54h5591f44w6kmuyrt3eh 0 740 2881 2639 2026-03-31T08:42:25Z Redmin 1445 Make sure the software's name is not turned to uppercase 2881 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q966109", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32953", "Z32953K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q7397" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } } ] } } } kcxv6239x4vhr0nl36x48pzl6ri4k25 0 811 2878 2734 2026-03-31T06:43:57Z LastCelebration 1451 Replace encoded word "country" with reference to best value of "instance of" in source Wikidata entry 2878 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q183", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z23459", "Z23459K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z6821", "Z6821K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" } }, "Z23459K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6092", "Z6092K1": "P31" } }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q27509" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } 4i1us35365czg4eb787wjwx6zcp35mu 0 812 2832 2738 2026-03-30T12:49:27Z GearsDatapacks 35 Centre of solar system 2832 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q525", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q5864" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q544" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q23595" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q544" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } i1uq3a2pl4c0vseit3beo5qisfx957v 0 856 2857 2827 2026-03-30T21:24:49Z Tvpuppy 1474 Add population size 2857 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q244898", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q515" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q865" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27243", "Z27243K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z27243K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q138758272" }, "Z27243K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q515" }, "Z27243K4": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q865" }, "Z27243K5": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } 1js9ppnkjr5gdtv29dxnvoiukltl3sq 2 860 2849 2026-03-30T19:37:11Z Mathmitch7 1572 Create intro to page 2849 wikitext text/x-wiki Hi all! I'm a Wikipedian who mostly edits on [[:en:User:Mathmitch7|English Wikipedia]] and [[:wikisource:en:User:Mathmitch7|English Wikisource]]. Cheers! 8t2rj1goh2zj4jtfsw9m8jlg94aka19 2 861 2850 2026-03-30T19:43:06Z Spartan.arbinger 1578 Created page with "test" 2850 wikitext text/x-wiki test jrwjerxiekdtj9k82lg930wpkr6tq6r 0 862 2853 2026-03-30T20:03:25Z Mathmitch7 1572 Create page (boy is this tricky) 2853 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q184226", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q4964182" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } ] } } } kxl235qkhbi05m0ucn569snmx0g8m09 2859 2853 2026-03-31T00:11:38Z GrounderUK 54 Agreed! 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