Abstract Wikipedia abstractwiki https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page MediaWiki 1.46.0-wmf.26 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Abstract Wikipedia Abstract Wikipedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 4 6 7119 7105 2026-05-02T12:12:28Z Amire80 22 /* How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors */ new section 7119 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 8u94il7tgnkiw8a1h8pj4hb0rgortf2 7121 7119 2026-05-02T12:21:11Z MediaWiki message delivery 61 /* Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia */ new section 7121 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> 06wivjudd8qa9gyqx44njcd73lhesp4 7130 7121 2026-05-02T12:49:36Z Amire80 22 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ new section 7130 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 15hkburm1qsa47uf9wg5mpeiffqftx6 7131 7130 2026-05-02T13:44:17Z Amire80 22 /* Most used fragments */ new section 7131 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 5j0zo7ekxggr8yk2tdmpk35tq7gqra5 7135 7131 2026-05-02T17:20:22Z Theki 2698 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ re 7135 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) kl36e0g3rbi3glck6p0vurgvgrbwr8h 7136 7135 2026-05-02T17:22:15Z Theki 2698 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ 7136 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) qqxry7or6clp7jzouz75c5q4za2p5zh 7140 7136 2026-05-02T18:10:52Z Amire80 22 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ Reply 7140 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) a50plbwrmvtun4jboetjcs43hbve83k 7141 7140 2026-05-02T18:19:26Z Theki 2698 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ 7141 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) iv8eq05v1tnlls8ukh3wvb2o0n1wlhj 7142 7141 2026-05-02T18:21:41Z Theki 2698 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ 7142 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 23nifr5gxgk5w3wqvq9nynnt6gspa1b 7143 7142 2026-05-02T18:25:18Z Feeglgeef 36 /* How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors */ Reply 7143 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) rval7c1has0p1khj074y91tlfc5hk6q 7144 7143 2026-05-02T18:26:34Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Most used fragments */ Reply 7144 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely should've been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) n52n8x5x8h6whzazrgtr769zo6huts1 7145 7144 2026-05-02T18:26:51Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Most used fragments */ 7145 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 8b57dyypc4pdeifjv8y739v7rznuf2m 7146 7145 2026-05-02T19:38:32Z Amire80 22 /* Most used fragments */ Reply 7146 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) l6lrqxxlugll8qf4843b60hctmj5mgr 7147 7146 2026-05-02T19:41:56Z Amire80 22 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ Reply 7147 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) e9t8xhme7t2bnd7sedlgmfaucsy3bpi 7148 7147 2026-05-02T19:42:18Z Theki 2698 /* Most used fragments */ re 7148 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 3w1okqw30ugkbj6hqepga8nka1akhaa 7149 7148 2026-05-02T19:46:23Z Theki 2698 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ re 7149 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Resonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) j3ps2nh7o451eu7yazrhfcti69z9n27 7150 7149 2026-05-02T19:48:26Z Theki 2698 /* What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Resonator? Porting over functions? */ typo 7150 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 5uieruaxm0mnbdiyph2zue6mennrj5l 7151 7150 2026-05-02T20:22:13Z Arlo Barnes 953 /* Project scope */ Reply 7151 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 1kkqvql93n86v9i5u2jg7codc7zmawc 7152 7151 2026-05-02T22:22:59Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Most used fragments */ Reply 7152 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used because different discussion spaces exist for different reasons. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 35odkbre1ixcvgjdsfepiavtk31i4w2 7153 7152 2026-05-02T22:23:30Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Most used fragments */ 7153 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) sev0s0ppo7e6ra47uvepb46ezat9gkg 7154 7153 2026-05-02T22:25:52Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Project scope */ Reply 7154 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) aiqcf1txxs7d1544dw1jx59r0v90bng 7155 7154 2026-05-02T22:36:25Z Immanuelle 1434 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ Reply 7155 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) a6ozikf92vnq3eez0rl6dcg9hss0l5u 7156 7155 2026-05-02T23:28:37Z Theki 2698 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ re 7156 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) mh3ok6ydk2yt92u90rlpo4zd9wfoh1z 7159 7156 2026-05-03T00:44:29Z Immanuelle 1434 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ Reply 7159 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this {{q|Z33068}} made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) nn8mwq0qgo2xd0stzu6hfzp4i80qazk 7160 7159 2026-05-03T00:45:13Z Immanuelle 1434 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ Reply 7160 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this {{q|Z33068}} made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) g5ibmw2u0aygbaoq9172af1y57lqlyt 7161 7160 2026-05-03T01:00:52Z Theki 2698 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ re 7161 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}} __NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project Chat]] This is the Abstract Wikipedia Project chat. This is where discussions on the project happen. Add your discussion below this line. More technical issues should go to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]]. For older conversations, see the archives ([[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archive 1|1]]). == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) {{tracked|T}} :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this {{q|Z33068}} made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) fgppj63w05scwsej96ucx8n54azbx4i 10 457 7120 6785 2026-05-02T12:16:25Z Sannita (WMF) 48 update 7120 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;<translate><!--T:1--> Volunteer's Corners</translate> * <translate><!--T:2--> The next Volunteers' Corner will be at <tvar name="date-and-time"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 17:30 UTC on 2026-05-11]</bdi></tvar> on <tvar name="platform"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi></tvar> at <tvar name="link"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi></tvar>.</translate> * <translate><!--T:3--> The [[<tvar name="1">:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-04.webm</tvar>|most recent Volunteer's Corner]] is available on Commons.</translate> ; <translate><!--T:4--> Recent status updates about Wikifunctions</translate> <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <translate>[[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02</tvar>|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia?</translate> * <translate><!--T:14--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25</tvar>|2026-04-25]]: The Foundation's search for the perfect language</translate> * <translate><!--T:13--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16</tvar>|2026-04-16]]: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved</translate> * <translate><!--T:11--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10</tvar>|2026-04-10]]: Community proposals for capturing meaning</translate> * <translate><!--T:12--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02</tvar>|2026-04-02]]: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables</translate> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status_updates <span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small"><translate><!--T:10--> More news</translate></span>]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> 98y01t5w72wifob023l1l4rav64u0qx 7122 7120 2026-05-02T12:41:13Z Tanbiruzzaman 13 Marked this version for translation 7122 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;<translate><!--T:1--> Volunteer's Corners</translate> * <translate><!--T:2--> The next Volunteers' Corner will be at <tvar name="date-and-time"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 17:30 UTC on 2026-05-11]</bdi></tvar> on <tvar name="platform"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi></tvar> at <tvar name="link"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi></tvar>.</translate> * <translate><!--T:3--> The [[<tvar name="1">:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-04.webm</tvar>|most recent Volunteer's Corner]] is available on Commons.</translate> ; <translate><!--T:4--> Recent status updates about Wikifunctions</translate> <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <translate><!--T:15--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02</tvar>|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia?</translate> * <translate><!--T:14--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25</tvar>|2026-04-25]]: The Foundation's search for the perfect language</translate> * <translate><!--T:13--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16</tvar>|2026-04-16]]: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved</translate> * <translate><!--T:11--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10</tvar>|2026-04-10]]: Community proposals for capturing meaning</translate> * <translate><!--T:12--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02</tvar>|2026-04-02]]: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables</translate> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status_updates <span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small"><translate><!--T:10--> More news</translate></span>]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> 96aplajgy37vja5zg1525r5w10mjv4q 0 536 7157 4579 2026-05-02T23:32:50Z Theki 2698 7157 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q128910", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33068", "Z33068K1": [ "Z1", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32581", "Z32581K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q128910" }, "Z32581K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q99516640" }, 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updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia? * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|2026-04-25]]: The Foundation's search for the perfect language * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|2026-04-16]]: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|2026-04-10]]: Community proposals for capturing meaning * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|2026-04-02]]: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables </div> <span class="plainlinks">[https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status_updates <span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">More news</span>]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> qhl1oejr13y6zz2xf6flt1epw40if65 10 1989 7125 6787 2026-05-02T12:41:14Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 7125 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;স্বেচ্ছাসেবক সভা * পরবর্তী স্বেচ্ছাসেবক সভা <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 17:30 UTC on 2026-05-11]</bdi>-এ <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi>-এ <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>-এ হবে। * [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-04.webm|সর্বশেষ স্বেচ্ছাসেবক সভা]] কমন্সে পাওয়া যাবে। ; উইকিফাংশন্স সম্পর্কে সাম্প্রতিক হালনাগাদ <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia?</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|2026-04-25]]: The Foundation's search for the perfect language</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|2026-04-16]]: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|2026-04-10]]: Community proposals for capturing meaning</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|2026-04-02]]: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables</span> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status_updates <span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">আরও সংবাদ</span>]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> npjyfq1swz0wpc15ti1zju7p9gkwxko 10 2061 7124 6860 2026-05-02T12:41:14Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 7124 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;Freiwilligentreffen * Das nächste Freiwilligentreffen findet um <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 17:30 UTC on 2026-05-11]</bdi> auf <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> unter <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi> statt. * Das [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-04.webm|letzte Freiwilligentreffen]] ist auf Commons verfügbar. ; Aktuelle Neuigkeiten zum Status von Wikifunctions <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia?</span> * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|2026-04-25]]: Die Suche der Foundation nach der perfekten Sprache * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|2026-04-16]]: Meilensteine; Einige größere Probleme hoffentlich behoben * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|2026-04-10]]: Community-Vorschläge zur Erfassung von Bedeutungen * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|2026-04-02]]: Diskussionsanfrage: Syntaktische Tabellen </div> <span class="plainlinks">[https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status_updates <span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">Weitere Neuigkeiten</span>]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> cwvbam4a8394xwzgah5xrmmz3svub8u 10 2080 7126 6794 2026-05-02T12:41:14Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 7126 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;ركن المتطوعين * سيكون ركن المتطوعين التالي في <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 17:30 UTC on 2026-05-11]</bdi> على <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> في <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>. * [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-04.webm|أحدث ركن المتطوعين]] متاح على كومنز. ; تحديثات الحالة الأخيرة حول ويكي الدوال <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia?</span> * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|2026-04-25]]: بحث المؤسسة عن اللغة المثالية * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|2026-04-16]]: إنجازات هامة؛ تم حل بعض المشكلات الرئيسية على أمل * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|2026-04-10]]: مقترحات المجتمع لالتقاط المعنى * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|2026-04-02]]: طلب مناقشة: الجداول النحوية </div> <span class="plainlinks">[https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status_updates <span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">المزيد من الأخبار</span>]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> rb9229x90vdpekv2b49umt38c6cui3j 10 2278 7129 6792 2026-05-02T12:41:15Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 7129 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;-{A|zh-hans:志愿者;zh-hant:志工;}-角落 * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">The next Volunteers' Corner will be at <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 17:30 UTC on 2026-05-11]</bdi> on <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> at <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>.</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">The [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-04.webm|most recent Volunteer's Corner]] is available on Commons.</span> ; <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Recent status updates about Wikifunctions</span> <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia?</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|2026-04-25]]: The Foundation's search for the perfect language</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|2026-04-16]]: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|2026-04-10]]: Community proposals for capturing meaning</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|2026-04-02]]: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables</span> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status_updates <span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">更多新闻</span>]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> 74cjiivlwrda8lrzvhpdkmuqvhk3coo 10 2418 7128 6790 2026-05-02T12:41:15Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 7128 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;Volontärshörnan * <span class="mw-translate-fuzzy">Nästa volontärshörna kommer hållas [$1 17:30 UTC den 2026-04-13] på Google Meet, på $2.</span> * Den [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-04.webm|förra volontärshörnan]] finns att se på Commons. ; Senaste nytt om Wikifunctions <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia?</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|2026-04-25]]: The Foundation's search for the perfect language</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|2026-04-16]]: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|2026-04-10]]: Community proposals for capturing meaning</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|2026-04-02]]: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables</span> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status_updates <span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">Fler nyheter</span>]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> imteiejj4nycrb2bxlhal17639nyabw 0 2661 7163 6879 2026-05-03T07:45:33Z Jsamwrites 874 7163 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q16038495", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z14396", "Z14396K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32581", "Z32581K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z32581K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q3305213" }, "Z32581K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q460344" }, "Z32581K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32145", "Z32145K1": { "Z1K1": 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"Z7", "Z7K1": "Z24766", "Z24766K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z21449", "Z21449K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6092", "Z6092K1": "P276" }, "Z21449K2": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z6821", "Z6821K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" } } }, "Z24766K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } } ] } ] } ] } } } l990att3ggtqo80vdiz2kyeq3mqlo85 0 2711 7133 7045 2026-05-02T17:09:51Z Theki 2698 7133 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q108540806", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33068", "Z33068K1": [ "Z1", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q683111" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33185", "Z33185K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z33185K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q275131" }, "Z33185K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q332903" }, "Z33185K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ], "Z33068K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } hy3fi8nvaso9xhhfv81ljfk6kg7whd4 3 2721 7134 7104 2026-05-02T17:15:21Z Theki 2698 7134 wikitext text/x-wiki == Welcome to Abstract Wikipedia! == <div style="border:solid medium lightgrey; border-width: medium; padding: 0.3em 0.5em;"> <div class="lang-en" lang="en"> Hello, Some helpful person. Welcome to '''[[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Abstract Wikipedia]]'''! View the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Community portal|Community portal]] or post to the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] if you need help with something. Happy editing! </div> </div><!-- Template:Welcome --> [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:56, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Hooray! It wouldn’t be Wikipedia without a <code><nowiki>{{welcome}}</nowiki></code>, would it? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:03, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::I certainly don't think so. Glad you're here. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 01:04, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == [[Q108540806]] == Hi, I thought it would be worthwhile to share some pointers with you for article creation, namely about the linked article that you just made. I went and corrected some of the problems I saw, and I'd like to tell you about them so that you know what to do next time. These are not official rules, though, of course, so whether or not you choose to utilize these is up to whether or not you consider them proper. Do not use the ''paragraph from list of sentences separated by spaces'' functions and similar functions. Japanese, Chinese, etc. do not use spaces. [[f:Z33068]] is more appropriate as it handles these discrepancies for you. You also don't need to use HTML fragment-returning sentence generation functions (and you probably shouldn't), and you don't need to use any "string of monolingual text"-adjacent functions either. Z33068 conveniently does these things for you in a way that is consistent and puts less effort on the editor. I have been making an effort to document what is, in my opinion, the most regular and consistent ways to do things. Self-centered of me, maybe, but I think you might find it useful to read [[f:User:Theki/best practices]]. Again, however, note that this is all opinionated, and I am not at all demanding that you do things this way. Happy editing! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:15, 2 May 2026 (UTC) gtlne65n7ye5cas2oh3ggiy9hcv94bg 7137 7134 2026-05-02T17:37:49Z Some helpful person 2820 /* Q108540806 */ Reply 7137 wikitext text/x-wiki == Welcome to Abstract Wikipedia! == <div style="border:solid medium lightgrey; border-width: medium; padding: 0.3em 0.5em;"> <div class="lang-en" lang="en"> Hello, Some helpful person. Welcome to '''[[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Abstract Wikipedia]]'''! View the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Community portal|Community portal]] or post to the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] if you need help with something. Happy editing! </div> </div><!-- Template:Welcome --> [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:56, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Hooray! It wouldn’t be Wikipedia without a <code><nowiki>{{welcome}}</nowiki></code>, would it? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:03, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::I certainly don't think so. Glad you're here. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 01:04, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == [[Q108540806]] == Hi, I thought it would be worthwhile to share some pointers with you for article creation, namely about the linked article that you just made. I went and corrected some of the problems I saw, and I'd like to tell you about them so that you know what to do next time. These are not official rules, though, of course, so whether or not you choose to utilize these is up to whether or not you consider them proper. Do not use the ''paragraph from list of sentences separated by spaces'' functions and similar functions. Japanese, Chinese, etc. do not use spaces. [[f:Z33068]] is more appropriate as it handles these discrepancies for you. You also don't need to use HTML fragment-returning sentence generation functions (and you probably shouldn't), and you don't need to use any "string of monolingual text"-adjacent functions either. Z33068 conveniently does these things for you in a way that is consistent and puts less effort on the editor. I have been making an effort to document what is, in my opinion, the most regular and consistent ways to do things. Self-centered of me, maybe, but I think you might find it useful to read [[f:User:Theki/best practices]]. Again, however, note that this is all opinionated, and I am not at all demanding that you do things this way. Happy editing! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:15, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Appreciate it, those sound like good practices, and choosing the right function has been kind of confusing. It seemed easiest to use whatever worked, as there do not appear to be standards in place. Will attempt to use more efficient and accessible functions. May just me, but the paragraph from sentence function [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q108540806?uselang=en&oldid=7133 does not seem to be working] at the moment, whereas [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q108540806?uselang=en&oldid=7045 the space-separated one is]? <code>Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Could not acquire WASI runner within time limit</code> [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 17:37, 2 May 2026 (UTC) lvjzi492pc2vvhuds7ckedqdyhnaeqk 7138 7137 2026-05-02T17:38:17Z Some helpful person 2820 /* Q108540806 */ 7138 wikitext text/x-wiki == Welcome to Abstract Wikipedia! == <div style="border:solid medium lightgrey; border-width: medium; padding: 0.3em 0.5em;"> <div class="lang-en" lang="en"> Hello, Some helpful person. Welcome to '''[[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Abstract Wikipedia]]'''! View the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Community portal|Community portal]] or post to the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] if you need help with something. Happy editing! </div> </div><!-- Template:Welcome --> [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:56, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Hooray! It wouldn’t be Wikipedia without a <code><nowiki>{{welcome}}</nowiki></code>, would it? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:03, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::I certainly don't think so. Glad you're here. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 01:04, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == [[Q108540806]] == Hi, I thought it would be worthwhile to share some pointers with you for article creation, namely about the linked article that you just made. I went and corrected some of the problems I saw, and I'd like to tell you about them so that you know what to do next time. These are not official rules, though, of course, so whether or not you choose to utilize these is up to whether or not you consider them proper. Do not use the ''paragraph from list of sentences separated by spaces'' functions and similar functions. Japanese, Chinese, etc. do not use spaces. [[f:Z33068]] is more appropriate as it handles these discrepancies for you. You also don't need to use HTML fragment-returning sentence generation functions (and you probably shouldn't), and you don't need to use any "string of monolingual text"-adjacent functions either. Z33068 conveniently does these things for you in a way that is consistent and puts less effort on the editor. I have been making an effort to document what is, in my opinion, the most regular and consistent ways to do things. Self-centered of me, maybe, but I think you might find it useful to read [[f:User:Theki/best practices]]. Again, however, note that this is all opinionated, and I am not at all demanding that you do things this way. Happy editing! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:15, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Appreciate it, those sound like good practices, and choosing the right function has been kind of confusing. It seemed easiest to use whatever worked, as there do not appear to be standards in place. Will attempt to use more efficient and accessible functions. May just me, but the paragraph from sentences function [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q108540806?uselang=en&oldid=7133 does not seem to be working] at the moment, whereas [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q108540806?uselang=en&oldid=7045 the space-separated one is]? <code>Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Could not acquire WASI runner within time limit</code> [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 17:37, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 850kpvkclt49iz6kvk0to4deg2d0wwz 7139 7138 2026-05-02T18:05:37Z Theki 2698 /* Q108540806 */ re 7139 wikitext text/x-wiki == Welcome to Abstract Wikipedia! == <div style="border:solid medium lightgrey; border-width: medium; padding: 0.3em 0.5em;"> <div class="lang-en" lang="en"> Hello, Some helpful person. Welcome to '''[[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Abstract Wikipedia]]'''! View the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Community portal|Community portal]] or post to the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] if you need help with something. Happy editing! </div> </div><!-- Template:Welcome --> [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:56, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Hooray! It wouldn’t be Wikipedia without a <code><nowiki>{{welcome}}</nowiki></code>, would it? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:03, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::I certainly don't think so. Glad you're here. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 01:04, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == [[Q108540806]] == Hi, I thought it would be worthwhile to share some pointers with you for article creation, namely about the linked article that you just made. I went and corrected some of the problems I saw, and I'd like to tell you about them so that you know what to do next time. These are not official rules, though, of course, so whether or not you choose to utilize these is up to whether or not you consider them proper. Do not use the ''paragraph from list of sentences separated by spaces'' functions and similar functions. Japanese, Chinese, etc. do not use spaces. [[f:Z33068]] is more appropriate as it handles these discrepancies for you. You also don't need to use HTML fragment-returning sentence generation functions (and you probably shouldn't), and you don't need to use any "string of monolingual text"-adjacent functions either. Z33068 conveniently does these things for you in a way that is consistent and puts less effort on the editor. I have been making an effort to document what is, in my opinion, the most regular and consistent ways to do things. Self-centered of me, maybe, but I think you might find it useful to read [[f:User:Theki/best practices]]. Again, however, note that this is all opinionated, and I am not at all demanding that you do things this way. Happy editing! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:15, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Appreciate it, those sound like good practices, and choosing the right function has been kind of confusing. It seemed easiest to use whatever worked, as there do not appear to be standards in place. Will attempt to use more efficient and accessible functions. May just me, but the paragraph from sentences function [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q108540806?uselang=en&oldid=7133 does not seem to be working] at the moment, whereas [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q108540806?uselang=en&oldid=7045 the space-separated one is]? <code>Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Could not acquire WASI runner within time limit</code> [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 17:37, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::This is an ongoing issue, the orchestrator just freaks out like that sometimes. This doesn't usually happen, see [[Q241691]] for a working article that does things this way. I think the WASI runner error is tracked on Phabricator, but I can't find it... &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:05, 2 May 2026 (UTC) 1yake5w1m1nlunir36itojk93rgldzh 1198 2751 7123 2026-05-02T12:41:13Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 7123 wikitext text/x-wiki [[$1|2026-05-02]]: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia? 4mzkywhcbetc51cagiqa23918dwzvsa 0 2752 7162 2026-05-03T06:45:14Z GiovanniPen 3303 Created 7162 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q1903", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32123", "Z32123K1": { "Z1K1": "Z89", "Z89K1": "" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z31921", "Z31921K1": { "Z1K1": "Z89", "Z89K1": "" }, "Z31921K2": { "Z1K1": "Z89", "Z89K1": "" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z31465", "Z31465K1": "" }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32123", "Z32123K1": { "Z1K1": "Z89", "Z89K1": "" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z31870", "Z31870K1": "", "Z31870K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z31870K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } 0hjy6odfyl3j6bpi3r9vhwza2gyq8nd