Abstract Wikipedia abstractwiki https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page MediaWiki 1.47.0-wmf.6 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Abstract Wikipedia Abstract Wikipedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 4 6 10375 10368 2026-06-15T17:20:32Z Arlo Barnes 953 /* readiness indicator */ Reply 10375 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) k6ij44hieuehlk9le3pbgr6t7j3q7r2 10399 10375 2026-06-16T05:16:50Z Theki 2698 /* Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? */ 10399 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) k1v8815fyj8ejwe19hzllrllrubsg14 0 382 10397 10104 2026-06-16T04:33:18Z 99of9 614 rm duplicate Human Rights 10397 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q408", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36038", "Z36038K1": { "Z1K1": "Z310", "Z310K1": "M15573788" }, "Z36038K2": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z24766", "Z24766K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z24766K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q6256" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q55643" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": 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"Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27243", "Z27243K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q130283188" }, "Z27243K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q2625603" }, "Z27243K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q200250" }, "Z27243K4": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q408" }, "Z27243K5": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27243", "Z27243K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q3141" }, "Z27243K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q2625603" }, "Z27243K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q702492" }, "Z27243K4": { "Z1K1": 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"Z6091", { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q5377064" }, { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q5377182" }, { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q7313096" } ], "Z36083K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33690", "Z33690K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q34104" }, "Z33690K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33690", "Z33690K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q49389" }, "Z33690K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36083", "Z36083K1": [ "Z6091", { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q782217" } ], "Z36083K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } 28hd2txixdg5vc6bhztm1fvlv8ebb1a 4 2595 10400 9107 2026-06-16T05:17:12Z Theki 2698 10400 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I suggest a bot that extract useful information and statistics including which functions are used. [[github:dpriskorn/wf-dump-scripts|See my prototype pipeline]]. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::Great 🤩 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:28, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::I agree that we need to be able to reduce the noise when finding functions. ::::::I also agree that it would be very valuable to create function categories and be able to filter when searching. ::::::I also agree that defaulting on AW to "top-level" functions is a good idea. ::::::@ainali what do y mean mark them in Wikidata? Functions are not notable there if I understood correctly. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:33, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:So9q|So9q]] Oh, it's my mistake, mind wandering while writing. Instead of "on Wikidata" I meant "in metadata". <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:48, 31 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Oh, ok, I agree. My prototype to extract statistics could be used to find sll top level html functions. ::::::::We could limit it to functions over a certain number to not count the built in functions. ::::::::We could do quite a lot of work with the data to help people gaps. E.g. most used functions in AW missing support for Swedish for example. 😀 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:17, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::The prototype script used to generate https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Statistics/Z8 could rather easily be forked and adapted to AW 😀 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:45, 1 April 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::I agree, I recently wrote the team and suggested a clear backtrace so the user can see an overview of the chain of functions and steps in which step failed in which function. :::I'm imagining something like the GitHub actions job pipeline overview, where you can easily see the process and the output from the failing step. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:41, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) 6pqai66q36bvb0g67emvqnknee35rqv 0 3860 10384 10332 2026-06-15T19:01:19Z Arlo Barnes 953 header 10384 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q1522", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32962", "Z32962K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z32962K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q35657" }, "Z32962K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z31465", "Z31465K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z10251", "Z10251K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z23753", "Z23753K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q309" }, "Z23753K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32179", "Z32179K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29588", "Z29588K1": { 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abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q140237703", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z31921", "Z31921K1": { "Z1K1": "Z89", "Z89K1": "Diébly est un village situé en Côte d'Ivoire. Il est rattaché administrativement à la sous-préfecture de Bléniméouin, dans le département de Bangolo, région du Guémon." }, "Z31921K2": { "Z1K1": "Z89", "Z89K1": "https://rp2021.anstat.ci/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Repertoire-des-Localites-Guemon.pdf" } } ] } } } t8792on1lgggi0nzdwtbdqf6m8k4lwd 10394 10393 2026-06-15T23:26:07Z Poro26 4173 Mise du contenu en anglais 10394 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q140237703", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z31921", "Z31921K1": { "Z1K1": "Z89", "Z89K1": "Diebly is a village located in Côte d'Ivoire. It is administratively attached to the sub-prefecture of Bléniméouin, in the department of Bangolo, within the Guémon Region." }, "Z31921K2": { "Z1K1": "Z89", "Z89K1": "https://rp2021.anstat.ci/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Repertoire-des-Localites-Guemon.pdf" } } ] } } } 4nhh8t7xezxu3f42mucjs9rbc8h2tnz 0 3891 10395 2026-06-16T03:03:08Z Dudzcar 1961 Created page with "{ "qid": "Q138503695", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": { "Z1K1": "Z9", "Z9K1": "" } } ] } } }" 10395 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q138503695", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": { "Z1K1": "Z9", "Z9K1": "" } } ] } } } 067qpjot9my6mh5h5dwoy0xnqfp7x1y 10396 10395 2026-06-16T03:03:57Z Dudzcar 1961 10396 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q138503695", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89" ] } } } 2a0rx4dhaydao71qua9gplq2qmraplm