Main Page

<mediawiki xmlns="http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.11/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.11/ http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.11.xsd" version="0.11" xml:lang="en">
  <siteinfo>
    <sitename>Wikinews</sitename>
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    <case>first-letter</case>
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      <namespace key="1" case="first-letter">Talk</namespace>
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      <namespace key="3" case="first-letter">User talk</namespace>
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      <namespace key="2600" case="first-letter">Topic</namespace>
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  <page>
    <title>Main Page</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>3</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008336</id>
      <parentid>4879477</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:21:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>force change?</comment>
      <origin>5008336</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1752" sha1="j00wdabe5axs8j0t8ipmz546e3msox3" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 1 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 2 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 3 --&gt;
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 4 --&gt;
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 5 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main around}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>j00wdabe5axs8j0t8ipmz546e3msox3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008337</id>
      <parentid>5008336</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:21:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>undo</comment>
      <origin>5008337</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1752" sha1="6kiwolflbmc86sfcm0mht3wctcqt6dt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 1 --&gt;
{{Lead article 1}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 2 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 3 --&gt;
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 4 --&gt;
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 5 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main around}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>6kiwolflbmc86sfcm0mht3wctcqt6dt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008338</id>
      <parentid>5008337</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:23:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>trying to force an update of leads</comment>
      <origin>5008338</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1672" sha1="ddfaaxlotnq7joxd8bpnhkjey5vax59" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
{{Lead article 1}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main around}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>ddfaaxlotnq7joxd8bpnhkjey5vax59</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008339</id>
      <parentid>5008338</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:24:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Undid revision [[Special:Diff/5008338|5008338]] by [[Special:Contributions/Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] ([[User talk:Michael.C.Wright|talk]]). Leads correctly update in &quot;show preview&quot; but when submitting changes, they do not.</comment>
      <origin>5008339</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1752" sha1="6kiwolflbmc86sfcm0mht3wctcqt6dt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 1 --&gt;
{{Lead article 1}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 2 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 3 --&gt;
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 4 --&gt;
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 5 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main around}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>6kiwolflbmc86sfcm0mht3wctcqt6dt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008411</id>
      <parentid>5008339</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:57:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>change order temporarily</comment>
      <origin>5008411</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1752" sha1="kg73hk2njk8jht5cjxagtxa3hp8u5d5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 1 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 2 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 3 --&gt;
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 4 --&gt;
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 5 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main around}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>kg73hk2njk8jht5cjxagtxa3hp8u5d5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008412</id>
      <parentid>5008411</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:59:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Undid revision [[Special:Diff/5008411|5008411]] by [[Special:Contributions/Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] ([[User talk:Michael.C.Wright|talk]]) I don't get it...no worky worky</comment>
      <origin>5008412</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1752" sha1="6kiwolflbmc86sfcm0mht3wctcqt6dt" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 1 --&gt;
{{Lead article 1}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 2 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 3 --&gt;
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 4 --&gt;
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 5 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main around}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>6kiwolflbmc86sfcm0mht3wctcqt6dt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008417</id>
      <parentid>5008412</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:09:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>use Main historical</comment>
      <origin>5008417</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1756" sha1="6wwpp6f2k1ryxthvz9se0fj5149k8yb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 1 --&gt;
{{Lead article 1}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 2 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 3 --&gt;
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 4 --&gt;
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 5 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main historical}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>6wwpp6f2k1ryxthvz9se0fj5149k8yb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008418</id>
      <parentid>5008417</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:14:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>use dummy parameter</comment>
      <origin>5008418</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1772" sha1="pvwzvmcdy43ilwc1jt12wv1bo1761nl" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 1 --&gt;
{{Lead article 1|update=20260415}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 2 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 3 --&gt;
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 4 --&gt;
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 5 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main historical}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>pvwzvmcdy43ilwc1jt12wv1bo1761nl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008419</id>
      <parentid>5008418</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:15:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Undid revision [[Special:Diff/5008418|5008418]] by [[Special:Contributions/Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] ([[User talk:Michael.C.Wright|talk]]) dummy parameter doesn't even force re-evaluation of the lead template.</comment>
      <origin>5008419</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1756" sha1="6wwpp6f2k1ryxthvz9se0fj5149k8yb" xml:space="preserve">&lt;templatestyles src=&quot;Main Page/minerva.css&quot; /&gt;
&lt;!-- DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ADD CSS TO THE MAIN PAGE OR ITS TEMPLATES.
     Use [[MediaWiki:Common.css/Main Page]] or [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] for all
     your CSS needs. Else, beware the wrath of SGN --&gt;
{| class=&quot;the_table&quot;
!colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
{{Main page header}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;lead_big upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 1 --&gt;
{{Lead article 1}}
|rowspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;latest_news&quot; id=&quot;MainPage_latest_news&quot;|
&lt;!-- Latest News --&gt;
{{Main headlines}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal upper_lead&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 2 --&gt;
{{Lead article 2}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 3 --&gt;
{{Lead article 3}}
|-
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 4 --&gt;
{{Lead article 4}}
|class=&quot;lead_normal&quot;|
&lt;!-- Lead 5 --&gt;
{{Lead article 5}}
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;portals&quot;|
{{Main page portals}}
|-
|class=&quot;main_popular&quot; id=&quot;writeAnArticleCell&quot;|&lt;div id=&quot;mf-write&quot;&gt;{{Main write}}&lt;/div&gt;
|class=&quot;recent_interviews&quot;|{{Main interviews}}
|class=&quot;original_stories&quot;|{{Main original}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot; class=&quot;breaker&quot;| &lt;hr&gt; 
|-
|class=&quot;main_about&quot;|{{Main about}}
|class=&quot;main_write&quot;|{{Main featured}}&lt;!-- Should be: {{Main around}}--&gt;
|class=&quot;main_devel&quot;|{{Main historical}}
|- &lt;!-- Templates that can be rotated in/out above:
   Main historical, Main popular, Main interviews, Main original,
   Main about, Main write, Main around, Main devel, Main local --&gt;
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Wikinews in other languages&lt;/span&gt;
{{Wikinewslang}} 
|-
|colspan=&quot;3&quot;|
----
&lt;span class=&quot;minihead&quot;&gt;Sister projects&lt;/span&gt;
{{Sisterprojects}} 
|}
&lt;!-- ugly hack for mobile--&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;display:none&quot;&gt;&lt;span id=&quot;mf-more-news&quot;&gt;[[Template:Latest news|» More Wikinews stories]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NOEDITSECTION__
__NOTOC__

[[Category:Portal|*]]
[[Category:No publish]]</text>
      <sha1>6wwpp6f2k1ryxthvz9se0fj5149k8yb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Wikinews talk:Water cooler</title>
    <ns>5</ns>
    <id>2779</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008741</id>
      <parentid>4971043</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T02:02:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael21107</username>
        <id>2866566</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* 100% template */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008741</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9219" sha1="s8a4er8tgsurngqeivdmz3fu2rizxcy" xml:space="preserve">'''ARE YOU TRYING TO ASK A QUESTION ON THE WATER COOLER?''' IF SO THIS IS '''NOT THE RIGHT PLACE''', AND NEITHER IS THE PROTECTED [[Wikinews:Water cooler|WIKINEWS:WATER COOLER]] Instead, please edit one of the following:
*[[Wikinews:Water cooler/policy]]
*[[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical]]
*[[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals]]
*[[Wikinews:Water cooler/assistance]]
*[[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous]]
&lt;/div&gt;

==2 things==
1. I moved the (subpages) to /subpages to allow the automated wiki link back to watercooler - a relatively minor tweak that could make the page easier to use for some newbies.
2. Speaking of newbies.. It looks like a non-wiki-savvy person didn't understand how to edit a section - and instead edited the page - and inserted a bit of prose at the end of Amgine's otherwise clean code. -- [[User:Davodd|Davodd]] | [[User_talk:Davodd|Talk]] 09:53, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

== Why is the page broken up into subpages? ==

Why is the page broken up into subpages that are pulled in? This leads to synchronisation problems when people edit the page... Is there a good reason? - [[User:Simeon|Simeon]] 09:08, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
: Can you explain how it leads to synchronization problems? I've responded to the why on the main page, but the goals was to make it easier for the pages to be organized, and archived, and discussions implemented. - [[en:User:Amgine|Amgine]]/&lt;sup&gt;[[en:User talk:Amgine|talk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 22:35, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

== Please Spell-check Water Cooler pages ==

The old grammar school adage: &quot;there's a rat in separate&quot; applies.  You keep spelling it seperate.

== Updated interlanguage links ==

I´ve updated the interwiki language links on the [http://de.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Pressestammtisch german watercooler page], and wanted to implement it here (but its protected). I rekoned it would be a good idea if it was up to date here, cause thats where most people take there interwiki links from (english is the hub). regards [[User:Sean Heron]] [[User:84.164.91.88|84.164.91.88]] 16:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
:It is only IP/new user protection, just register an account. --[[User:Brianmc|''Brian McNeil'']] / &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Brianmc|''talk'']]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
oh :) I didn´t realize, thank you. I already have an account registered :D . [[User:Sean Heron|Sean Heron]] 21:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Can I comment??
:Yes you can.--[[User:Stevenfruitsmaak|Steven Fruitsmaak]] &lt;small&gt;([[User_talk:Stevenfruitsmaak|Reply]])&lt;/small&gt; 12:00, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

== Am I sentenced to the kids' table? ==

I would have started a conversation on the project page about the [[w:User:Wikinews Importer Bot|Wikinews Importer Bot]], but all I can do is &quot;view source.&quot; Does someone else want to say something about it there? [[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 04:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind! &gt;;-o) I figured it out. ;-) [[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 04:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[bugzilla:013042]] ==

&amp;lrm;→ [[bugzilla:13042]] · &quot;''« E-mail me when my user talk page is changed » feature at English Wikinews''&quot;&amp;lrm;&lt;br /&gt;

Dear friends; I opned this request because of [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?oldid=510473#Enable_email_for_user_talk_page_changes Wikinews talk:Water cooler|oldid=510473#Enable email for user talk page changes]. Good luck and best regards&lt;br /&gt;
‫·‏[[user:לערי ריינהארט|לערי ריינהארט]]‏·‏[[user talk:לערי ריינהארט|T]]‏·‏[[m:user:לערי ריינהארט|m]]‏:‏[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/user_talk:%D7%9C%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%99_%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%94%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%98?action=history Th]‏·‏[[m:user talk:לערי ריינהארט|T]]‏·‏[[m:special:Emailuser/לערי ריינהארט|email me]]‏·‏‬ 06:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

== Please add cs iw ==

{{tl|Editprotected}}
Please add cs iw:
&lt;pre&gt;[[cs:Wikizprávy:V redakci]]&lt;/pre&gt;--[[User:Sevela.p|Sevela.p]] ([[User talk:Sevela.p|talk]]) 18:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Anonymous101|Anonymous101]] &lt;code style=&quot;background:yellow&quot;&gt;:)&lt;/code&gt; 18:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

== search feature added ==

I've decided to be bold and add a search feature to the water cooler using the &lt;tt&gt;inputbox&lt;/tt&gt; tag. Please feel free to yell at me if this breaks anything. --[[User:Ixfd64|Ixfd64]] ([[User talk:Ixfd64|talk]]) 05:34, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki==

:The page [[:pt:Wikinotícias:Esplanada]] was renamed :[[pt:Wikinotícias:Redação]]. [[User:Richard Melo da Silva|Richard Melo da Silva]] ([[User talk:Richard Melo da Silva|talk]]) 22:17, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
::{{done}} [[User:Tempodivalse|&lt;font face=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;'''Tempodivalse'''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Tempodivalse#top|&lt;font face=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;[talk]&lt;/font&gt;]] 00:00, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

== Hellow? ==

Add the &lt;nowiki&gt;[[ko:위키뉴스]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; interwiki, please.(New make.) Thank you. --[[User:Idh0854|Idh0854]] ([[User talk:Idh0854|talk]]) 13:17, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

:From what I can tell, there is no page [[ko:위키뉴스]].  Would [[ko:위키뉴스:사랑방]] be appropriate?  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:51, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
::My bot [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?diff=1109258&amp;oldid=1026901&amp;rcid=1112928 added hu:, ko:, ru:, sr:, tr:, uk: and modified he:] [[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Diego Grez|return fire]]&lt;/sup&gt; 03:08, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== fawikinews ==

Hi, Somebody Please add fa interwiki to watercooler : [[:fa:ویکی‌خبر:تالار گفتگو]], Thank you in Advance [[:fa:کاربر:Mjbmr|&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml&quot;&gt;Mjbmr&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[:fa:بحث کاربر:mjbmr|&lt;code style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;Talk&lt;/code&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
: {{done}} --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Diego Grez|return fire]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

== unprotect please ==

Please unprotect this page.  It prevents section edit links from showing up, and makes it quite confusing for anyone who wants to follow up with a thread they've read.  It is also quite unclear how to post new questions in each section -- an explicit button or link at the top of each section would make that more obvious. [[User:Sj|sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 03:46, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
* {{done}}, but would you be able to suggest the appropriate changes to hide the &quot;Add topic&quot; and &quot;Edit&quot; (for the entire page) links? Otherwise, we'll be left perpetually cleaning up for people who don't read the first two sentences on the page. --[[User:Brian McNeil|''Brian McNeil'']] / &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Brian McNeil|''talk'']]&lt;/sup&gt; 09:18, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== improved warning sign? ==
The &quot;STOP!&quot; icon at the top of this page is discouraging.  Perhaps there is a friendlier way to guide visitors... it's not the worst thing in the world if someone mistakenly leaves a comment here. [[User:Sj|sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]])
* I think we'll leave that for now; unprotecting the Water Cooler won't cause the instant decline of Western Civilisation; but, if people are put off by the STOP sign, then dog-only-knows what they'll make of a failing review on an article. --[[User:Brian McNeil|''Brian McNeil'']] / &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Brian McNeil|''talk'']]&lt;/sup&gt; 09:20, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

== Interwiki update ==

Hello. Please, change &lt;nowiki&gt;[[ar:ويكي الأخبار:غرفة الاجتماعات]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[ar:ويكي الأخبار:الميدان]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. Regards.--&lt;span style=&quot;text-shadow:-1px 0 lightblue,0 1px lightblue,1px 0 lightblue,0 -1px lightblue;&quot;&gt;[[User:Avocato|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#0645ad&quot;&gt;Avocato&lt;/b&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;font face=&quot;Tahoma&quot; size=&quot;1&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Avocato|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#fb139e&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/b&gt;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
: {{done}} --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 17:10, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

== Discussion about the forum's activity ==

I started a discussion at this page: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Activity of &quot;water cooler&quot; subpages]]. --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 06:31, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

== Stop 🤚  ==

Seems intrusive.... [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

:??? @[[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 09:41, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

== Search Engine Optimization (SEO) Packages ==

Boost your online presence and drive targeted organic traffic with All Hind InfoTech - AHIT’s professional [https://www.ahitechno.com/single-product/search-engine-optimization-seo-packages Search Engine Optimization (SEO)] packages. Whether you run an informational or service website or manage a full-fledged eCommerce store, All Hind InfoTech - AHIT’s tailored SEO solutions are designed to improve your search engine rankings and increase visibility on Google and other major search engines. [[User:Allhindinfotech|Allhindinfotech]] ([[User talk:Allhindinfotech|talk]]) 07:04, 8 January 2026 (UTC)

== 100% template ==

This entire page is essentially a carbon copy of [[Template:Water cooler|the eponymous template]]. Why? [[User:Michael21107|Michael21107]] ([[User talk:Michael21107|talk]]) 02:02, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s8a4er8tgsurngqeivdmz3fu2rizxcy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Wikinews:Sandbox</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>4500</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008792</id>
      <parentid>4974519</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:05:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Quotaoxus</username>
        <id>2954213</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>5008792</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="11" sha1="aahywrnx4bzgsx42a7kpx7dltpymm71" xml:space="preserve">{{sandbox}}</text>
      <sha1>aahywrnx4bzgsx42a7kpx7dltpymm71</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008793</id>
      <parentid>5008792</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:06:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Quotaoxus</username>
        <id>2954213</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>5008793</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="20" sha1="bm8o8ngwmrqy1m018j4kqjrxxm5uiya" xml:space="preserve">rwehitf rnfbhaerjabo</text>
      <sha1>bm8o8ngwmrqy1m018j4kqjrxxm5uiya</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008794</id>
      <parentid>5008793</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:07:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Quotaoxus</username>
        <id>2954213</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>5008794</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="36" sha1="oddpib64ykoy8rmuekk6hy6u1cnzn7m" xml:space="preserve">{{Delete|I no longer use this page}}</text>
      <sha1>oddpib64ykoy8rmuekk6hy6u1cnzn7m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008801</id>
      <parentid>5008794</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:11:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>NDG</username>
        <id>2889723</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Removing all content from page</comment>
      <origin>5008801</origin>
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      <text bytes="0" sha1="phoiac9h4m842xq45sp7s6u21eteeq1" />
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  <page>
    <title>Wikinews:Admin action alerts</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>7100</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008299</id>
      <parentid>5008278</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:05:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Administrative matters for the closure */ reply to Gryllida ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008299</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="18421" sha1="3x341iwm8zd4zwqyz7bc7vk7ec72r6q" xml:space="preserve">{{start tab
|tab font-size =300%
|link-1        =WN:Admin action alerts
|tab-1         ='''Alerts'''
|link-2        =WN:Admin action alerts/Requests
|tab-2         ='''Requests'''
|frame         =no
|border        =2px solid #000
|off tab color = 
|on tab color  =
|rounding      =0em
|tab alignment =center
}}
{{/Header}}

{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archive = Wikinews:Admin action alerts/Archive %(counter)d
|algo = old(14d)
|counter = 14
|maxarchivesize = 192K
}}

{{clear}}
__NEWSECTIONLINK__

== ~2026-19884-13 ==

* {{User|~2026-19884-13}}
Spam. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 09:16, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:14, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

== {{User|Route 2026}} ==

{{User|Route 2026}} This username is similar to mine, but it has absolutely no connection to me. Furthermore, when this user created his/her user page, he/she sets it to redirect to my user page (not created), which I felt was an intentional attempt to cause confusion. I believe he/she should be blocked for using an inappropriate username.[[User:Route 2025|Route 2025]] ([[User talk:Route 2025|talk]]) 16:48, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} That is just weird. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Requesting unprotection ==

Hi, can you please unprotect my user page ([[User:Daniel]])? It has some sort of legacy protection that prevents me from editing it. Need to clean up. Thanks, [[User:Daniel|Daniel]] ([[User talk:Daniel|talk]]) 02:02, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:47, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Administrative matters for the closure ==

Could the admins check with the Foundation to find out what ''time'' on May 4 they intend to make Wikinews read-only? (I'm not saying that this information should necessarily be publicized, since someone might exploit it to sneak some self-promotion onto the site at the last minute. But the admins should know.)

On a related note, could the admins make sure that the [[Wikinews:Newsroom|Newsroom]] is cleared out by the last day? The list of &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;, for example, is baffling enough with Wikinews being active; we don't need to have them confuse people for the rest of the Internet's lifespan. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 01:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{tq|could the admins make sure that the Newsroom is cleared out by the last day}}
: Yes. I am working through as much of the archival work as I can. At present, I am not aware of any other administrator undertaking similar efforts. I have reached out to one administrator who has left a number of incomplete changes, but they appear to have disengaged. Given that, I am focusing on what can reasonably be addressed without taking on additional cleanup beyond routine, shutting-things-down-type work.
: There are some things the 'crats typically need to do and I've pinged them in some cases to close discussions such as requests for permissions. As we get closer to D-Day, if nothing is done, I'll close more things down myself if necessary. 
: Regarding the incorrectly flagged articles, one major issue is the absence of a documented procedure for retracting articles, particularly in relation to [[:Category:No publish]]. A practical short-term fix would be to include all retracted stories in that category, or alternatively disable the DPL as the project winds down (DPL would likely be disabled as part of the mothballing process anyway). 
: That approach would leave the record as-is, including its shortcomings. At minimum, it preserves a complete account of how these issues were or were not handled, which may be of value to anyone reviewing the project in the future.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} What's DPL? Thanks for what you are working on. If there is anything that non-admins can do to help, let us know. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 20:09, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
::: DPL is [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (third-party)]]. It is used not only on the Newsroom page, but also on the main page and all infoboxes (and more). &lt;br&gt; Our use of it (or rather ru.WN's use) has some [[w:User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_247#The_Wikimedia_Foundation_broke_Russian_Wikinews_again|history]]. We should have migrated off of it long ago. Part of me wonders if that factored in to the SPTF's decision to close Wikinews. &lt;br&gt; At any rate, it will no doubt be disabled, leaving an error on every page that uses it. I'm not sure how to change all of our infoboxes so that they still return something useful once DPL is disabled and the site is read-only. And there isn't enough of a community left to try to figure it out, either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:17, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::I didn't receive any pings for 'crat tasks. If you would like me to get them done, then, please leave a message on my talk page. Please do not rely on notifications to engage me in tasks or discussions in the next four weeks here, I would really appreciate it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:16, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
::: {{tq|Please do not rely on notifications to engage me in tasks or discussions in the next four weeks here...}}
::: Alternatively, you could take responsibility for monitoring requests for bureaucrats and step in proactively where bureaucrat action is needed.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:05, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== In anticipation of DPL being disabled ==

I've started working through [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] removing DPL and replacing it with static lists. It's time-consuming and I alone won't get through all infoboxes, before the project is marked read-only and DPL likely is disabled. 

All admin are encouraged to help. See the edit histories of the following as examples of how I do it:

[[Template:2005 London bombing infobox]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2006EuropeanChampionshipsAthletics]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Iranian seizure of Royal Navy personnel]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Taipei 101 Run Up]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Taipei IT Month]]

We'll need to do similar work on normal infoboxes, which are more complicated, as well as the Main page, etc.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:40, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was going to suggest raw HTML or even [[:mw:subst:|subst:]] the templates. How were you doing it, Michael? Are you looking at the web page's code and copy/pasting the HTML? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 15:30, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::Some of the infoboxes are not admin-protected, so I will help with replacing the DPL with static lists where I can. I just did that for [[Template:War in Georgia (2008)]]. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 15:55, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: Using subst might be a much better solution...[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:: {{tq|Are you looking at the web page's code and copy/pasting the HTML?}}
:: Yes, that is essentially what I'm doing. Several categories of infoboxes are 'cookie-cutter' in that they are set up the same. For example, most of the [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] are set up the same, so it's relatively easy to rebuild them slightly and copy/paste the DPL output as a static list using wikitext. I linked to two examples [[#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260413171000-Country_Infoboxes|below]] and have since done several in the same manner. It is more pragmatic than ideal, and better alternatives are welcome. 
:: We still have roughly {{PAGESINCATEGORY:Pages using the DynamicPageList extension}} pages using DPL—most of them are likely articles with infoboxes that use DPL. So there is less work than actually having to touch that many individual pages.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:16, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Courtesy link: [[:Category:Infoboxes]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:05, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I have also done the following:
:::[[Template:WDSC2007]]&lt;br&gt;
:::[[Template:Tour de France 2007]]
:::So I recommend that the admins focus on the protected templates and leave the unprotected templates for editors like me to handle. Each template takes only a few minutes to edit. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:07, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: Much appreciated and I'll start focussing only on protected first.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
*{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} Is there a reason not to keep using [[Template:Infosection]] in these infoboxes, rather than replacing it with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;background: #bce1ff; color: #202122; padding: 2px; text-align: center; style; font-size: normal;&quot;&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt;? --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:10, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
**Also, I notice that the underlying articles linked from [[Template:WDSC2007]] are displaying the updated infobox (see [[2007 World Deaf Swimming Championships Day 5: A fantastic ending]], for example), but those from [[Template:Tour de France 2007]] and [[Template:War in Georgia (2008)]] are not (see [[Tour de France: Alberto Contador wins the grand tour]], for example). I'm not sure what the difference is. (The updated infoboxes use the correct dates for the underlying articles, rather than dating everything 17 February 2025.) --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:42, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
**: The 17 February 2025 date was the result of work we did with the license upgrade and is therefore going to be incorrect according to the publish date, unfortunately. As I've removed DPLs, I have not been adding a date. Just a bulleted list that I copied and pasted.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:25, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
**::I knew about the 17 February 2025 problem from before. My point was that if I edit the dates in the infobox to be the correct date instead of 17 February 2025, I expect that if the infobox is displayed on other articles, it should be the corrected infobox rather than the uncorrected version. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 12:54, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
**::: Ahh, sorry. I read it wrong.
::::: I just tested and do see that some of the changes aren't propagating as expected. I tested with [[Tour de France: Alberto Contador wins the grand tour]] and tried to purge that page using &lt;code&gt;?action=purge&lt;/code&gt; on the end of the URL and that didn't pull in the changes. However, when I used &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:Tour de France 2007}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at that article, it did indeed pull in the changes. So I imagine (hope?) that we can carry on and eventually the changes will propagate. I have seen in the past, notably when I created categories such as [[:Category:Peer reviewed/Passed (exception)/Michael.C.Wright]], that it took days for the categories to be populated as expected. 
::::: Unless of course someone else knows what's going on under the hood and knows a better approach.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
** I don't know of any and you're right, it might be better to simply replace the DPL.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
* I believe all that is left in [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] are infoboxes that call {{tl|Infobox}}, which utilizes [[:Template:Infobox/p2]] to generate DPLs. If someone has any ideas on how to tackle that, it would be a huge help in reducing the number of pages using DPL. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:49, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Courtesy link to all pages using DPL (note that pages in the main and category namespaces have it transcluded from a template): [[:Category:Pages using the DynamicPageList extension]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:19, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

=== State infoboxes ===
I am now rebuilding [[:Category:State infoboxes]] to be static. See the following, completed examples:
 
* [[:Template:Alabama]]
* [[:Template:Alaska]]
 
I'm working in alphabetical order. Feel free to start at the bottom and work upwards if you'd like to lend a hand. The first two were fully protected, so this may be a job only for admins, unfortunately.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:49, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{done}} The states infoboxes are now converted from DPL to static[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:55, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

=== Country Infoboxes ===
I am now rebuilding [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] to be static, following the same process as done for State infoboxes. See the following, completed examples:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]]
* [[:Template:Albania]]

One was protected, one was not. Feel free to jump in where you can. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:10, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: Infoboxes in sections J, K, and L of [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] are completed. I'll continue down the list from M later today or tomorrow (Pacific Time), unless someone else gets there first.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:02, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: I will add that should we migrate and are able to continue our use of DPL ([[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260413211700-RhinosF1-20260413201600|which remains unclear]]) these changes should be easily revert-able. Most of my updates to these infoboxes were a single edit.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:28, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:: The good news is that [[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts#c-RhinosF1-20260414062300-Michael.C.Wright-20260413211700|Miraheze would support our DPL ]]should we fork to them. &lt;br&gt; The bad news is we don't know if WMF NY is going to assume stewardship of the project (we ''need'' a parent, 501(C)(3) to operate), if the WMF is going to relinquish the name and logo, or when those decisions are even expected to be made. &lt;br&gt; Therefore, I think we should continue our work winding things down. The older pages using DPL can remain static long-term or even permanently if we do migrate and the newer pages/templates can have DPL restored easily by reverting the changes.  &lt;br&gt; I think later today I'll try to set up a project page to track and document what we've done to wind-down the project.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:32, 14 April 2026 (UTC)

== Imminent migration tasks ==

Hello, 

I stopped reviewing for next few weeks to allocate resources for migration. I am requesting you to please let me know what I can do to help. Link to the migration discussion &quot;[[meta:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]]&quot;, and I would like to invite you to participate. For now there is one possible venue with joined Miraheze and Wikimedia NYC hosting but their communication appears to be happening off-wiki as far as I know and I do not know their possible result nor the timing of that discussion. I am grateful for anything that you may do to help.

If the migration is completed I am willing to commit to reviewing more timely and to build an infrastructure and workflow that results in reasonably accurate and fresh stories being published and to help the group grow.

I refused to help with article archival, because I do not wish to be involved in quality checks at this stage. '''If there are specific non-controversial tasks related to migration that you would like my help with, please let me know.'''

Many thanks.

Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:12, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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== ~2026-19884-13 ==

* {{User|~2026-19884-13}}
Spam. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 09:16, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:14, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

== {{User|Route 2026}} ==

{{User|Route 2026}} This username is similar to mine, but it has absolutely no connection to me. Furthermore, when this user created his/her user page, he/she sets it to redirect to my user page (not created), which I felt was an intentional attempt to cause confusion. I believe he/she should be blocked for using an inappropriate username.[[User:Route 2025|Route 2025]] ([[User talk:Route 2025|talk]]) 16:48, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} That is just weird. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Requesting unprotection ==

Hi, can you please unprotect my user page ([[User:Daniel]])? It has some sort of legacy protection that prevents me from editing it. Need to clean up. Thanks, [[User:Daniel|Daniel]] ([[User talk:Daniel|talk]]) 02:02, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:47, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Administrative matters for the closure ==

Could the admins check with the Foundation to find out what ''time'' on May 4 they intend to make Wikinews read-only? (I'm not saying that this information should necessarily be publicized, since someone might exploit it to sneak some self-promotion onto the site at the last minute. But the admins should know.)

On a related note, could the admins make sure that the [[Wikinews:Newsroom|Newsroom]] is cleared out by the last day? The list of &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;, for example, is baffling enough with Wikinews being active; we don't need to have them confuse people for the rest of the Internet's lifespan. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 01:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{tq|could the admins make sure that the Newsroom is cleared out by the last day}}
: Yes. I am working through as much of the archival work as I can. At present, I am not aware of any other administrator undertaking similar efforts. I have reached out to one administrator who has left a number of incomplete changes, but they appear to have disengaged. Given that, I am focusing on what can reasonably be addressed without taking on additional cleanup beyond routine, shutting-things-down-type work.
: There are some things the 'crats typically need to do and I've pinged them in some cases to close discussions such as requests for permissions. As we get closer to D-Day, if nothing is done, I'll close more things down myself if necessary. 
: Regarding the incorrectly flagged articles, one major issue is the absence of a documented procedure for retracting articles, particularly in relation to [[:Category:No publish]]. A practical short-term fix would be to include all retracted stories in that category, or alternatively disable the DPL as the project winds down (DPL would likely be disabled as part of the mothballing process anyway). 
: That approach would leave the record as-is, including its shortcomings. At minimum, it preserves a complete account of how these issues were or were not handled, which may be of value to anyone reviewing the project in the future.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} What's DPL? Thanks for what you are working on. If there is anything that non-admins can do to help, let us know. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 20:09, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
::: DPL is [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (third-party)]]. It is used not only on the Newsroom page, but also on the main page and all infoboxes (and more). &lt;br&gt; Our use of it (or rather ru.WN's use) has some [[w:User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_247#The_Wikimedia_Foundation_broke_Russian_Wikinews_again|history]]. We should have migrated off of it long ago. Part of me wonders if that factored in to the SPTF's decision to close Wikinews. &lt;br&gt; At any rate, it will no doubt be disabled, leaving an error on every page that uses it. I'm not sure how to change all of our infoboxes so that they still return something useful once DPL is disabled and the site is read-only. And there isn't enough of a community left to try to figure it out, either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:17, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::I didn't receive any pings for 'crat tasks. If you would like me to get them done, then, please leave a message on my talk page. Please do not rely on notifications to engage me in tasks or discussions in the next four weeks here, I would really appreciate it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:16, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
::: {{tq|Please do not rely on notifications to engage me in tasks or discussions in the next four weeks here...}}
::: Alternatively, you could take responsibility for monitoring requests for bureaucrats and step in proactively where bureaucrat action is needed.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:05, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== In anticipation of DPL being disabled ==

I've started working through [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] removing DPL and replacing it with static lists. It's time-consuming and I alone won't get through all infoboxes, before the project is marked read-only and DPL likely is disabled. 

All admin are encouraged to help. See the edit histories of the following as examples of how I do it:

[[Template:2005 London bombing infobox]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2006EuropeanChampionshipsAthletics]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Iranian seizure of Royal Navy personnel]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Taipei 101 Run Up]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Taipei IT Month]]

We'll need to do similar work on normal infoboxes, which are more complicated, as well as the Main page, etc.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:40, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was going to suggest raw HTML or even [[:mw:subst:|subst:]] the templates. How were you doing it, Michael? Are you looking at the web page's code and copy/pasting the HTML? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 15:30, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::Some of the infoboxes are not admin-protected, so I will help with replacing the DPL with static lists where I can. I just did that for [[Template:War in Georgia (2008)]]. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 15:55, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: Using subst might be a much better solution...[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:: {{tq|Are you looking at the web page's code and copy/pasting the HTML?}}
:: Yes, that is essentially what I'm doing. Several categories of infoboxes are 'cookie-cutter' in that they are set up the same. For example, most of the [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] are set up the same, so it's relatively easy to rebuild them slightly and copy/paste the DPL output as a static list using wikitext. I linked to two examples [[#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260413171000-Country_Infoboxes|below]] and have since done several in the same manner. It is more pragmatic than ideal, and better alternatives are welcome. 
:: We still have roughly {{PAGESINCATEGORY:Pages using the DynamicPageList extension}} pages using DPL—most of them are likely articles with infoboxes that use DPL. So there is less work than actually having to touch that many individual pages.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:16, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Courtesy link: [[:Category:Infoboxes]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:05, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I have also done the following:
:::[[Template:WDSC2007]]&lt;br&gt;
:::[[Template:Tour de France 2007]]
:::So I recommend that the admins focus on the protected templates and leave the unprotected templates for editors like me to handle. Each template takes only a few minutes to edit. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:07, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: Much appreciated and I'll start focussing only on protected first.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
*{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} Is there a reason not to keep using [[Template:Infosection]] in these infoboxes, rather than replacing it with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;background: #bce1ff; color: #202122; padding: 2px; text-align: center; style; font-size: normal;&quot;&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt;? --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:10, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
**Also, I notice that the underlying articles linked from [[Template:WDSC2007]] are displaying the updated infobox (see [[2007 World Deaf Swimming Championships Day 5: A fantastic ending]], for example), but those from [[Template:Tour de France 2007]] and [[Template:War in Georgia (2008)]] are not (see [[Tour de France: Alberto Contador wins the grand tour]], for example). I'm not sure what the difference is. (The updated infoboxes use the correct dates for the underlying articles, rather than dating everything 17 February 2025.) --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:42, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
**: The 17 February 2025 date was the result of work we did with the license upgrade and is therefore going to be incorrect according to the publish date, unfortunately. As I've removed DPLs, I have not been adding a date. Just a bulleted list that I copied and pasted.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:25, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
**::I knew about the 17 February 2025 problem from before. My point was that if I edit the dates in the infobox to be the correct date instead of 17 February 2025, I expect that if the infobox is displayed on other articles, it should be the corrected infobox rather than the uncorrected version. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 12:54, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
**::: Ahh, sorry. I read it wrong.
::::: I just tested and do see that some of the changes aren't propagating as expected. I tested with [[Tour de France: Alberto Contador wins the grand tour]] and tried to purge that page using &lt;code&gt;?action=purge&lt;/code&gt; on the end of the URL and that didn't pull in the changes. However, when I used &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:Tour de France 2007}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at that article, it did indeed pull in the changes. So I imagine (hope?) that we can carry on and eventually the changes will propagate. I have seen in the past, notably when I created categories such as [[:Category:Peer reviewed/Passed (exception)/Michael.C.Wright]], that it took days for the categories to be populated as expected. 
::::: Unless of course someone else knows what's going on under the hood and knows a better approach.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
** I don't know of any and you're right, it might be better to simply replace the DPL.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
* I believe all that is left in [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] are infoboxes that call {{tl|Infobox}}, which utilizes [[:Template:Infobox/p2]] to generate DPLs. If someone has any ideas on how to tackle that, it would be a huge help in reducing the number of pages using DPL. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:49, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Courtesy link to all pages using DPL (note that pages in the main and category namespaces have it transcluded from a template): [[:Category:Pages using the DynamicPageList extension]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:19, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

=== State infoboxes ===
I am now rebuilding [[:Category:State infoboxes]] to be static. See the following, completed examples:
 
* [[:Template:Alabama]]
* [[:Template:Alaska]]
 
I'm working in alphabetical order. Feel free to start at the bottom and work upwards if you'd like to lend a hand. The first two were fully protected, so this may be a job only for admins, unfortunately.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:49, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{done}} The states infoboxes are now converted from DPL to static[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:55, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

=== Country Infoboxes ===
I am now rebuilding [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] to be static, following the same process as done for State infoboxes. See the following, completed examples:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]]
* [[:Template:Albania]]

One was protected, one was not. Feel free to jump in where you can. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:10, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: Infoboxes in sections J, K, and L of [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] are completed. I'll continue down the list from M later today or tomorrow (Pacific Time), unless someone else gets there first.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:02, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: I will add that should we migrate and are able to continue our use of DPL ([[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260413211700-RhinosF1-20260413201600|which remains unclear]]) these changes should be easily revert-able. Most of my updates to these infoboxes were a single edit.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:28, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:: The good news is that [[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts#c-RhinosF1-20260414062300-Michael.C.Wright-20260413211700|Miraheze would support our DPL ]]should we fork to them. &lt;br&gt; The bad news is we don't know if WMF NY is going to assume stewardship of the project (we ''need'' a parent, 501(C)(3) to operate), if the WMF is going to relinquish the name and logo, or when those decisions are even expected to be made. &lt;br&gt; Therefore, I think we should continue our work winding things down. The older pages using DPL can remain static long-term or even permanently if we do migrate and the newer pages/templates can have DPL restored easily by reverting the changes.  &lt;br&gt; I think later today I'll try to set up a project page to track and document what we've done to wind-down the project.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:32, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
: I have created the following page to ID and track work we want to do before the project is marked read-only: 
: 
::[[Wikinews:2026 Wind-down Wikinews]]
: 
: This work '''assumes no migration will be done.''' If we migrate, some or even all of the work may need to be reverted. See [[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]] for any updates on a potential migration.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:54, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Imminent migration tasks ==

Hello, 

I stopped reviewing for next few weeks to allocate resources for migration. I am requesting you to please let me know what I can do to help. Link to the migration discussion &quot;[[meta:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]]&quot;, and I would like to invite you to participate. For now there is one possible venue with joined Miraheze and Wikimedia NYC hosting but their communication appears to be happening off-wiki as far as I know and I do not know their possible result nor the timing of that discussion. I am grateful for anything that you may do to help.

If the migration is completed I am willing to commit to reviewing more timely and to build an infrastructure and workflow that results in reasonably accurate and fresh stories being published and to help the group grow.

I refused to help with article archival, because I do not wish to be involved in quality checks at this stage. '''If there are specific non-controversial tasks related to migration that you would like my help with, please let me know.'''

Many thanks.

Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:12, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5i5f5e6fszn753hmxgcpddxukewvxw0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008633</id>
      <parentid>5008362</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:28:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* In anticipation of DPL being disabled */ reply to Metropolitan90 ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008633</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="19825" sha1="7mq1uaahlzamtoojprlkiqicl6oz273" xml:space="preserve">{{start tab
|tab font-size =300%
|link-1        =WN:Admin action alerts
|tab-1         ='''Alerts'''
|link-2        =WN:Admin action alerts/Requests
|tab-2         ='''Requests'''
|frame         =no
|border        =2px solid #000
|off tab color = 
|on tab color  =
|rounding      =0em
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}}
{{/Header}}

{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archive = Wikinews:Admin action alerts/Archive %(counter)d
|algo = old(14d)
|counter = 14
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{{clear}}
__NEWSECTIONLINK__

== ~2026-19884-13 ==

* {{User|~2026-19884-13}}
Spam. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 09:16, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:14, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

== {{User|Route 2026}} ==

{{User|Route 2026}} This username is similar to mine, but it has absolutely no connection to me. Furthermore, when this user created his/her user page, he/she sets it to redirect to my user page (not created), which I felt was an intentional attempt to cause confusion. I believe he/she should be blocked for using an inappropriate username.[[User:Route 2025|Route 2025]] ([[User talk:Route 2025|talk]]) 16:48, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} That is just weird. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Requesting unprotection ==

Hi, can you please unprotect my user page ([[User:Daniel]])? It has some sort of legacy protection that prevents me from editing it. Need to clean up. Thanks, [[User:Daniel|Daniel]] ([[User talk:Daniel|talk]]) 02:02, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{done}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:47, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Administrative matters for the closure ==

Could the admins check with the Foundation to find out what ''time'' on May 4 they intend to make Wikinews read-only? (I'm not saying that this information should necessarily be publicized, since someone might exploit it to sneak some self-promotion onto the site at the last minute. But the admins should know.)

On a related note, could the admins make sure that the [[Wikinews:Newsroom|Newsroom]] is cleared out by the last day? The list of &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;, for example, is baffling enough with Wikinews being active; we don't need to have them confuse people for the rest of the Internet's lifespan. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 01:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{tq|could the admins make sure that the Newsroom is cleared out by the last day}}
: Yes. I am working through as much of the archival work as I can. At present, I am not aware of any other administrator undertaking similar efforts. I have reached out to one administrator who has left a number of incomplete changes, but they appear to have disengaged. Given that, I am focusing on what can reasonably be addressed without taking on additional cleanup beyond routine, shutting-things-down-type work.
: There are some things the 'crats typically need to do and I've pinged them in some cases to close discussions such as requests for permissions. As we get closer to D-Day, if nothing is done, I'll close more things down myself if necessary. 
: Regarding the incorrectly flagged articles, one major issue is the absence of a documented procedure for retracting articles, particularly in relation to [[:Category:No publish]]. A practical short-term fix would be to include all retracted stories in that category, or alternatively disable the DPL as the project winds down (DPL would likely be disabled as part of the mothballing process anyway). 
: That approach would leave the record as-is, including its shortcomings. At minimum, it preserves a complete account of how these issues were or were not handled, which may be of value to anyone reviewing the project in the future.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} What's DPL? Thanks for what you are working on. If there is anything that non-admins can do to help, let us know. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 20:09, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
::: DPL is [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (third-party)]]. It is used not only on the Newsroom page, but also on the main page and all infoboxes (and more). &lt;br&gt; Our use of it (or rather ru.WN's use) has some [[w:User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_247#The_Wikimedia_Foundation_broke_Russian_Wikinews_again|history]]. We should have migrated off of it long ago. Part of me wonders if that factored in to the SPTF's decision to close Wikinews. &lt;br&gt; At any rate, it will no doubt be disabled, leaving an error on every page that uses it. I'm not sure how to change all of our infoboxes so that they still return something useful once DPL is disabled and the site is read-only. And there isn't enough of a community left to try to figure it out, either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:17, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::I didn't receive any pings for 'crat tasks. If you would like me to get them done, then, please leave a message on my talk page. Please do not rely on notifications to engage me in tasks or discussions in the next four weeks here, I would really appreciate it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:16, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
::: {{tq|Please do not rely on notifications to engage me in tasks or discussions in the next four weeks here...}}
::: Alternatively, you could take responsibility for monitoring requests for bureaucrats and step in proactively where bureaucrat action is needed.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:05, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== In anticipation of DPL being disabled ==

I've started working through [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] removing DPL and replacing it with static lists. It's time-consuming and I alone won't get through all infoboxes, before the project is marked read-only and DPL likely is disabled. 

All admin are encouraged to help. See the edit histories of the following as examples of how I do it:

[[Template:2005 London bombing infobox]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2006EuropeanChampionshipsAthletics]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Iranian seizure of Royal Navy personnel]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Taipei 101 Run Up]]&lt;br&gt;
[[Template:2007 Taipei IT Month]]

We'll need to do similar work on normal infoboxes, which are more complicated, as well as the Main page, etc.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:40, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was going to suggest raw HTML or even [[:mw:subst:|subst:]] the templates. How were you doing it, Michael? Are you looking at the web page's code and copy/pasting the HTML? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 15:30, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::Some of the infoboxes are not admin-protected, so I will help with replacing the DPL with static lists where I can. I just did that for [[Template:War in Georgia (2008)]]. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 15:55, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: Using subst might be a much better solution...[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:: {{tq|Are you looking at the web page's code and copy/pasting the HTML?}}
:: Yes, that is essentially what I'm doing. Several categories of infoboxes are 'cookie-cutter' in that they are set up the same. For example, most of the [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] are set up the same, so it's relatively easy to rebuild them slightly and copy/paste the DPL output as a static list using wikitext. I linked to two examples [[#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260413171000-Country_Infoboxes|below]] and have since done several in the same manner. It is more pragmatic than ideal, and better alternatives are welcome. 
:: We still have roughly {{PAGESINCATEGORY:Pages using the DynamicPageList extension}} pages using DPL—most of them are likely articles with infoboxes that use DPL. So there is less work than actually having to touch that many individual pages.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:16, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Courtesy link: [[:Category:Infoboxes]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:05, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I have also done the following:
:::[[Template:WDSC2007]]&lt;br&gt;
:::[[Template:Tour de France 2007]]
:::So I recommend that the admins focus on the protected templates and leave the unprotected templates for editors like me to handle. Each template takes only a few minutes to edit. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:07, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: Much appreciated and I'll start focussing only on protected first.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
*{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} Is there a reason not to keep using [[Template:Infosection]] in these infoboxes, rather than replacing it with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;background: #bce1ff; color: #202122; padding: 2px; text-align: center; style; font-size: normal;&quot;&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt;? --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:10, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
**Also, I notice that the underlying articles linked from [[Template:WDSC2007]] are displaying the updated infobox (see [[2007 World Deaf Swimming Championships Day 5: A fantastic ending]], for example), but those from [[Template:Tour de France 2007]] and [[Template:War in Georgia (2008)]] are not (see [[Tour de France: Alberto Contador wins the grand tour]], for example). I'm not sure what the difference is. (The updated infoboxes use the correct dates for the underlying articles, rather than dating everything 17 February 2025.) --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 16:42, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
**: The 17 February 2025 date was the result of work we did with the license upgrade and is therefore going to be incorrect according to the publish date, unfortunately. As I've removed DPLs, I have not been adding a date. Just a bulleted list that I copied and pasted.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:25, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
**::I knew about the 17 February 2025 problem from before. My point was that if I edit the dates in the infobox to be the correct date instead of 17 February 2025, I expect that if the infobox is displayed on other articles, it should be the corrected infobox rather than the uncorrected version. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 12:54, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
**::: Ahh, sorry. I read it wrong.
::::: I just tested and do see that some of the changes aren't propagating as expected. I tested with [[Tour de France: Alberto Contador wins the grand tour]] and tried to purge that page using &lt;code&gt;?action=purge&lt;/code&gt; on the end of the URL and that didn't pull in the changes. However, when I used &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:Tour de France 2007}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at that article, it did indeed pull in the changes. So I imagine (hope?) that we can carry on and eventually the changes will propagate. I have seen in the past, notably when I created categories such as [[:Category:Peer reviewed/Passed (exception)/Michael.C.Wright]], that it took days for the categories to be populated as expected. 
::::: Unless of course someone else knows what's going on under the hood and knows a better approach.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::::: See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512. It is possible that our [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|disabling FlaggedRevs in the template namespace]] affected how pages transclude templates that were previously controlled by FlaggedRevs (which was what reviewers use to &quot;sight&quot; stable versions). 
::::: The work-around for the Main page was to recreate the templates, which is not feasible here given the number of templates we're updating.
::::: I've updated the Phabricator ticket with this information in hopes that a more systemic solution is available, considering pending closure, DPL being disabled, etc., etc.,[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 22:28, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
** I don't know of any and you're right, it might be better to simply replace the DPL.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
* I believe all that is left in [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] are infoboxes that call {{tl|Infobox}}, which utilizes [[:Template:Infobox/p2]] to generate DPLs. If someone has any ideas on how to tackle that, it would be a huge help in reducing the number of pages using DPL. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:49, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Courtesy link to all pages using DPL (note that pages in the main and category namespaces have it transcluded from a template): [[:Category:Pages using the DynamicPageList extension]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:19, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

=== State infoboxes ===
I am now rebuilding [[:Category:State infoboxes]] to be static. See the following, completed examples:
 
* [[:Template:Alabama]]
* [[:Template:Alaska]]
 
I'm working in alphabetical order. Feel free to start at the bottom and work upwards if you'd like to lend a hand. The first two were fully protected, so this may be a job only for admins, unfortunately.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:49, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{done}} The states infoboxes are now converted from DPL to static[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:55, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

=== Country Infoboxes ===
I am now rebuilding [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] to be static, following the same process as done for State infoboxes. See the following, completed examples:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]]
* [[:Template:Albania]]

One was protected, one was not. Feel free to jump in where you can. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:10, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: Infoboxes in sections J, K, and L of [[:Category:Country infoboxes]] are completed. I'll continue down the list from M later today or tomorrow (Pacific Time), unless someone else gets there first.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:02, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
: I will add that should we migrate and are able to continue our use of DPL ([[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260413211700-RhinosF1-20260413201600|which remains unclear]]) these changes should be easily revert-able. Most of my updates to these infoboxes were a single edit.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:28, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:: The good news is that [[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts#c-RhinosF1-20260414062300-Michael.C.Wright-20260413211700|Miraheze would support our DPL ]]should we fork to them. &lt;br&gt; The bad news is we don't know if WMF NY is going to assume stewardship of the project (we ''need'' a parent, 501(C)(3) to operate), if the WMF is going to relinquish the name and logo, or when those decisions are even expected to be made. &lt;br&gt; Therefore, I think we should continue our work winding things down. The older pages using DPL can remain static long-term or even permanently if we do migrate and the newer pages/templates can have DPL restored easily by reverting the changes.  &lt;br&gt; I think later today I'll try to set up a project page to track and document what we've done to wind-down the project.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:32, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
: I have created the following page to ID and track work we want to do before the project is marked read-only: 
: 
::[[Wikinews:2026 Wind-down Wikinews]]
: 
: This work '''assumes no migration will be done.''' If we migrate, some or even all of the work may need to be reverted. See [[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]] for any updates on a potential migration.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:54, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Imminent migration tasks ==

Hello, 

I stopped reviewing for next few weeks to allocate resources for migration. I am requesting you to please let me know what I can do to help. Link to the migration discussion &quot;[[meta:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]]&quot;, and I would like to invite you to participate. For now there is one possible venue with joined Miraheze and Wikimedia NYC hosting but their communication appears to be happening off-wiki as far as I know and I do not know their possible result nor the timing of that discussion. I am grateful for anything that you may do to help.

If the migration is completed I am willing to commit to reviewing more timely and to build an infrastructure and workflow that results in reasonably accurate and fresh stories being published and to help the group grow.

I refused to help with article archival, because I do not wish to be involved in quality checks at this stage. '''If there are specific non-controversial tasks related to migration that you would like my help with, please let me know.'''

Many thanks.

Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:12, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7mq1uaahlzamtoojprlkiqicl6oz273</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Rwanda</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>11416</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008469</id>
      <parentid>3807305</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:52:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008469</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1137" sha1="jbla5v4opxgbth008n67tixjboy610h" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=Rwanda}}
[[Image:Rwanda (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Inaugural African Protected Areas Congress closes]]
* [[Rwandan Senate approves constitutional change allowing third term for Kagame]]
* [[Rwandan Supreme Court agrees to hear case on allowing third presidential term]]
* [[2012 Report on Gender Equality and Development looks at women's issues in India]]
* [[2012 Report on Gender Equality and Development credits Icelandic parental policy with 'hopeful' changes]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Rwanda.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Rwanda]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>jbla5v4opxgbth008n67tixjboy610h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Koavf</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>29575</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008305</id>
      <parentid>5008275</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:27:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Koavf</username>
        <id>5879</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Thank you */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>5008305</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="43634" sha1="i20gbbo3o6cziiq40x894un03ys7kwn" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
		
{{PAGENAME}}, welcome to Wikinews! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay! If you haven't done so already, you may want to [[Special:Userlogin|create an account]].	 

'''Our key policies''' - if you read anything, read these!
*[[Wikinews:Neutral point of view]] - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
*[[Wikinews:Cite sources]] - everything in a Wikinews article ''must'' be sourced
		 
Here a few pointers to help you '''get to know Wikinews''':	 
*[[Wikinews:Introduction]] - overview of the site	 
*[[Wikinews:Writing an article]] - how to write and publish a complete article	 
*[[Wikinews:Content guide]] - what's suitable for Wikinews	
*[[Wikinews:Contents]] - the contents page.	 
*[[Wikinews:Newsroom]] - The comunity portal
	 	 
There are always '''things to do''' on Wikinews:	 
*[[Template:Latest news|Existing articles]] need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes	 
*The front page lead articles often need [[Wikinews:Workspace#Update leads|updating]]	 
*[[Wikinews:Workspace#Work on current stories|Developing stories]] need finishing and publishing
*[[Wikinews:Water cooler|Discussions]] need your input	 
*And of course, stories need [[Wikinews:Writing an article|writing]]!	 
	 
By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes (&lt;nowiki&gt;&amp;#126;&amp;#126;&amp;#126;&amp;#126;&lt;/nowiki&gt;), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the [[Wikinews:Water cooler|water cooler]] or to anyone on the [[Wikinews:Welcommittee|Welcommittee]], or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! [[user:bawolff|Bawolff]] ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 04:09, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

== [[Wikimedia Foundation receives copyright infringement claim from Mormon Church]] ==

From [[w:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]] -- &quot;The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, widely known as the '''LDS Church''' or the '''Mormon Church'''...&quot; I went with &quot;Mormon Church&quot; because this is a &quot;widely known&quot; name as well, and to use the entire &quot;The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints&quot; is very very long in the headline of an article.  I hope you do not mind if I move it back.  [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 04:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for your response.  I respect your opinion, though I also respectfully disagree, as a perusal of similar types of news stories about this organization seems to hold that [http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&amp;tab=wn&amp;ned=us&amp;q=%22Mormon+Church%22&amp;btnG=Search+News &quot;Mormon Church&quot;], is used more frequently than [http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&amp;tab=wn&amp;ned=us&amp;q=%22The+Church+of+Jesus+Christ+of+Latter-day+Saints%22&amp;btnG=Search &quot;The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints&quot;].  Thanks for the polite response. Cheers, [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 19:07, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

==Thanks!==
Thank you for taking the time to point out the transcription error in [[Interview with US political activist and philosopher Noam Chomsky|this]] article about Noam Chomsky. I had to listen to it several times before I was sure exactly what he said. Good ears;). [[User:Gopher65|Gopher65]]&lt;sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Gopher65|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/sub&gt; 23:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

You're very and thank you Justin for reading my news. did you like it? [[User:Sara walker|Sara walker]] ([[User talk:Sara walker|talk]]) 01:30, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Tell a title of one of your news Justin [[User:Sara walker|Sara walker]] ([[User talk:Sara walker|talk]]) 01:31, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Sara walker}} News stories I have written are on my user page. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:28, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

== Moving images to Commons ==

Hi.  Just wanted to explain a bit why I rv'd your seemingly perfectly reasonable edit on the image.  I don't particularly dispute the point about it being ineligible for copyright.  The thing is, though, there's a long and tragic history of Commons dissing Wikinews by deleting stuff (with neither warning nor notification) we are using and cannot replace, but which we could almost always upload locally under fair use if we knew it was about to happen.  There's probably... usually... no malice at all involved, either, but one can't help thinking if Commons cared to it could easily set up an infrastructure to check whether a pending deletion would cause problems for a sister project that allows local uploads, and either notify them or even automatically do a local upload with some sort of copyright-justification-needed-within-x-amount-of-time tag.  The worst incident I've seen was a Wikinews article we published with an image that had been sitting happily on Commons for something like six or seven years, and then a little more than a day after we published our article, while it was the number one lead on our main page so that this image was the single most prominent image displayed on our entire site, Commons deleted it.  The icing on the cake was, this was just '''after''' the article was more than 24 hours post-publication, so that our archive policy had kicked in (the reason we can't replace most images that get deleted out from under us).  So, once we've uploaded something locally, we're not likely to voluntarily delete it in favor of moving to Commons, making ourselves more vulnerable to the mishap of Commons deletion.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:05, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
:'''Okay''' But if it gets deleted there, you can undelete it here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 08:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
::Hm.  An interesting thought, except that we don't ''know'' when an image we use here is deleted there.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:42, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
:::'''Files''' You could have a tracking category like [[:w:Category:Articles_with_missing_files|Articles_with_missing_files]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:03, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
::::There are about... I think it's around 450 articles in our archives with missing images.  Two and a fraction percent of our entire archive.  Only earlier this year I created a template {{tl|missing image}} to try to at least neatify the articles involved.  Small as Wikinews is, we need less stuff to keep track of, rather than more.

::::In the specific instance, though, I concede that ''if'' the image were ever deleted from Commons, sooner or later we would presumably notice and would then find it especially easy to fix.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:32, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

== [[:Category:Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama]] ==

I hope this was an error here, I can't possibly see how anyone could argue the D.L. is not a Theologian. --[[User:Brian McNeil|''Brian McNeil'']] / &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Brian McNeil|''talk'']]&lt;/sup&gt; 23:24, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

== [[User:SarahStierch‎]] ==

Was that edit at the user's request? It's hard to follow what's going on here, locally. The impression I get hunting around is that Sarah's position at the WMF is over, is that correct? [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:22, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
:[[mailarchive:wikimedia-l/2014-January/129466.html|Yes.]] [[User:Microchip08|Microchip08]] ([[User talk:Microchip08|talk]]) 14:25, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
::'''Blood Red Sandman''' I notified her on en.voy. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:55, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

== Reviewer?? ==

I saw that you'd requested Reviewer status some time ago....doesn't look like much has happened re: that request. It seems you've done some cat'ing around here (thanks for that!!). Outside of that, have you done much else in term of proofreading etc.? I think (if I'm interpreting things properly) you are into ''Wikidata'' a bit (a project FAR BEYOND the scope of my expertise). --[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 22:56, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Bddpaux}} You can see all of my WMF edits here, of course: [[Special:CentralAuth/Koavf]]. As you can see, I've been most active in sheer number of edits on en.wp, commons, data, en.ws, en.voy, and en.wikt. I've tried to do more on non-Wikipedia projects over the past two years and although I may not be as familiar with the norms at en.wn, I don't think reviewer is too much to ask considering my history here and elsewhere on WMF projects. If you do, that's fair. Alternately, if you have in mind some threshold I should cross, let me know. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:01, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
::That's cool and I'm with you there. But considering what I'd said in the comments section over on your request, the 'general' flow here goes: Newbie, Reporter, Accredited Reporter, Reviewer (aka 'Editor'), Administrator (and a few beyond that -- but those cross into inter-wiki roles). Now, what I just said is not canonical by any means! But reviewers spend a lot of time here reading, re-reading, proof'ing and taking action on article submissions (again, functioning as a news editor). It's not a glory-filled job...I can assure you!! I have no questions about your roles/contributions across the span of WMF, but 'Reviewer' means something REAL SPECIFIC here in these parts. So, if you REALLY WANT to, you're welcome to lurk here for a while, doing some plain-old copy edits and what-not (user Pi Zero has even taken action to make a lot of those mundane things a bit easier of-late). From there, we'll see where things can go. If others think your congealed meta-role qualifies you to be a reviewer here, then I'm willing to listen, but as user Blood Red Sandman pointed out, taking that route worked out badly in the past. We've seen (in the past) that users who come here, puffed up, looking for some badge-of-honor before proving themselves tend to create more problems than they fix and then run away mad. (I'm not accusing you of being one of those people, heck, ''I don't know you''); but God's-honest humility is the order-of-the-day around here if things are to succeed.  --[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 17:02, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
:::Not sure I'd go quite as far as to say it's normal to get Accredited Reporter before Reviewer, but it's certainly known. Accredited Reporter is based entirely on trust, so a user with little track record on ''Wikinews'' can get it if they're trusted by the community (although it's most common for users to do some writing first, then apply). For reviewer, it's not as high-trust. Trust is an element, of course, but reviewer is about competence with ''Wikinews'' policies and processes. I'm not aware of any other priv on any wiki where competence is required to be demonstrated in quite the way it is for reviewer. Write a couple of articles a week for, say, a month and the community will likely be tripping over itself to hand you reviewer. [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 19:45, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

== [[Detroit teachers stage sickout to protest working conditions as Obama visits]] ==

Hi.  Some difficulties; see '''[[Talk:Detroit teachers stage sickout to protest working conditions as Obama visits#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4152278 [Not ready]}}|review comments]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:30, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
: Published.  Had difficulties, discussed in review comments.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 17:51, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
::{{Ping|Pi zero}} Thanks. I'm getting used to news writing and this is helpful. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:49, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

== wikinews-l ==

Am I correct that you're admin for this list?  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:01, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Pi zero}} Yes, I am one of two but I believe the other person has never actually been active in a year or so and I've been inactive for about two months. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 21:15, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
:: Is it by any chance moderated?  It's one of the places I send notices about en.wn ArbCom elections, but I suspect they never appear on the list.  I sent one &amp;mdash; now irrelevant &amp;mdash; eight days ago, a real-time update on the state of nominations (which closed about 90 minutes ago), and the list informed me that it had received the message, but it looks to me as if the message never actually got sent to the list.  I'd like to send a notice there when voting opens late tomorrow... if it's going to reach the list.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:37, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I can check the archives and start moderating it more aggressively. The problem is that my computer literally snapped in half several weeks ago and I still haven't gotten a new one. :/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:49, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|Pi zero}} Wow. I literally hadn't deleted my filter for a minute before I got spam. It gets several hundred messages a day. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:53, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
:::: I can't decide whether I'm more impressed by &quot;several hundred messages a day&quot; or &quot;literally snapped in half&quot;.  Thanks.  I'll plan to send my next notice to the list tomorrow.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:11, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
:::::{{Ping|Pi zero}} Best to message me once you do. By the way, you have mail--not sure if you've seen it yet. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:16, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

== [[Koreas hold joint training session for Olympics]] ==

I don't think I can make use of {{tl|reviewing}} for the article, but that is what I am doing. I would not call it {{tl|editing}} since I am not adding any information to it. If something needs to be changed, consider pinging me on IRC. I almost had an ec.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:41, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Acagastya}} We used &quot;selected&quot; in earlier stories: it's a selection, not an election. As far as all the blue links, maybe just the word &quot;bombed&quot;. Thoughts? {{Ping|Pi zero}}--is this passable? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:08, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
:: it was a note for self. So that I do not forget to check. I am still reviewing it. Let me finish it.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 07:35, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
----
Julian Assange's appeal against lifting the arrest warrant was denied by UK court -- and I would not be able to write about it -- it is going to lose its freshness. Would you like to write about it?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:38, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Acagastya}} In short, yes but I don't have time. :/ I'm trying to write something about the Olympics opening ceremony. Thanks for the request--please keep me in mind for future stories. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:28, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
::oh there are tonnes of articles I wish someone could write because right now, there are five on the to-do list. Is there a way we could discuss about what to write? Any IMs? Telegram? Ping me on Telegram if you use it; my username is @acagastya [though I noticed @koavf isn’t registered]&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/223.237.211.254|223.237.211.254]] ([[User talk:223.237.211.254|talk]]) 03:37, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|acagastya}} (this *is* you?) I'm not familiar with Telegram--usually if you want to talk off-wiki, I use email and that has an associated IM name. It's totally fine to send me an SMS, too. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:40, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
::::emails aren’t the best IMs. SMS from India to the US, that would be difficult, too. Well, I think you should try Telegram (it works on any platform, Android, iOS, Linux, macOS, Windows, and in browsers) and you would not even have to share your contact number to people for messaging.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 03:49, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::{{Ping|acagastya}} Oh, but I ''do'' have an IM account thru Gmail: justinkoavf. I can IM you that way. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:51, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
{{od}} are you talking about Google Talk? (FWIW, I hardly use anything that is owned by Google, except for YouTube services, due to Google’s privacy policy and their love of selling our information) (By the way, the url is www.telegram.org)&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:04, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Acagastya}} That is correct. And yes, I have scaled back on using everything Google ''other'' than Gmail--unfortunately, one's email address is pretty fundamental. Let me take a look and get back with you. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of an obit here now and I have so many other things going on outside of Wikinews and other wikis. :/ Do you want to set up a time to talk? That will force me to set aside time for us to collaborate. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:08, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
:: No, we can chat while editing too. But currently, I need to leave for college. And the reviewers from UTC - zones should be sleeping so I need to write articles before they wake up. :-S&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:21, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

== Quotations ==

We do not use “”. Instead, we use the plain ones &quot;&quot;.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:11, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
: We try, anyway.  (Modern software that &quot;thinks&quot; it knows better than we do can be ''really annoying'', can't it?&amp;nbsp;:-)&amp;nbsp; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:22, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
::in iOS 10, the key displayed '”' but by default, it printed '&quot;'. In iOS 11, it shows and prints '”'. And that is really annoying.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:17, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|acagastya|Pi zero}} [citation needed]. We should use typographic quotes, since they are correct. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:32, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

== Korean military parade ==

I don't know what is &quot;newsworthy&quot; in that story the way MSM is portraying it, but are you planning to write about it? If so, I suggest you to do it asap.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 16:42, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
:{{Ping|acagastya}} I won't have a separate story, just a story on the opening of the Olympics that mentions that. I don't have time for separate ones. :/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:33, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

== [[Poet, lyricist, and digital activist John Perry Barlow dies, aged 70]] ==

Alas, when I got to the end of the review, I couldn't remember all the thing I'd thought of during the review.  (This is something I want a semi-automated review assistant to help with: keeping track, through a review, of notes on what to say at the end.)  At any rate, I do try to split my edits during a review into small units that provide a meaningful diff and can be given a reasonably coherent edit summary; and if asked about a particular edit during the review, I can probably look at it and remember what it was about to provide a better explanation.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:33, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Pi zero}} Hey sorry, what is this in regards to again...? Are you apologizing for something or something? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 06:22, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::It is pizero's habit to explain (and thus, documenting what should be done in a particular situation) what they edited. Like for example, in one edit, they take care of [[WN:FUTURE]], they would explain in the edit summary -- that is how their review takes place so the authors can learn what to do and what not to do -- and when I was copyediting, I noticed the tone was not acceptable, I don't know if it is a NPOV problem or style problem (example, &quot;Barlow is survived [...] loved ones across the world.&quot;) which is one of the things that should have been mentioned in the review comments, pizero and I, we both agree. What pizero means to say is, there were other things they wanted to point out in comments, but might have missed -- because it was a long review.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:10, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::: The &quot;So-and-so is survived by&quot; is a stock phrase, of course.  But... yeah, there was something a bit off about some phrases.  I'm not sure how to sum it all up, but it may be discernible in the individual edits.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 12:01, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::::{{Ping|Pi zero}} I think I see why you're posting, thanks. All your edit summaries made sense and I don't in principle disagree with any of your edits. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

== chat ==

Seems you are technically advanced and open minded. I would like to have a 15 minutes talk about how you read and write news and ask for your guidance about a few things. What talking platform would you prefer? We could use [[WN:IRC|IRC]] text chat (my nick 'Sveta') or another place for audio chat, whatever you are more comfortable with. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Gryllida|msg]]/[[WN:IRC|chat]]&lt;/sup&gt; 21:26, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Gryllida}} Thanks for writing. I am very flexible on that--even the phone is fine with me. Tell me what method and give me two or three ranges of time. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:50, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
::Let's start with IRC (#wikinews channel) for simplicity. Does 19:00-20:00UTC work for you? If not, I can try to do a time between 22:00UTC and 06:00UTC, you choose (subject to availability - have several adhoc meetings this week). --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Gryllida|msg]]/[[WN:IRC|chat]]&lt;/sup&gt; 03:19, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|Gryllida}} Sorry this is taking so long. :/ Would a phone call work for you? Or IMing? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 03:06, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Either option would work equally well. It is just that I am in Australia and international calls can be expensive so I would rather try IRC chat first. Another option is online audio chat via for example SIP or Jitsi or a standard HTML5 audio chat app but for me it is difficult because I do not have a smartphone to do such calls from and none of my desktops are in a good place or time to have a conversation. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 03:24, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::{{Ping|Gryllida}} Okay, please choose a time Over the next 48 hours and I'll make it. Thanks. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:38, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Now (for the next hour), or Sydney this Saturday morning 6AM (again one hour). Failing that, the same time on any weekday (again in Sydney). --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 01:58, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::{{Ping|Gryllida}} Signing on now... —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:00, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I see you, but not any messages from you (as of yet). In the text box at the bottom type hi and press enter, or use another webchat ([http://www.kiwiirc.com/client/irc.gnu.org/wikinews]). --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 02:05, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I have a couple of messages that I've sent at https://webchat.freenode.net/. I'll try http://www.kiwiirc.com/client/irc.gnu.org/wikinews. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:10, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Cool, thanks. :-) --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 05:36, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::{{Ping|Gryllida}} I am signed on again--the friend who need a ride last nite needed more than just a ride. I'm not paying close attention to IRC so ping me there or post to my talk here to ensure that I see you. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 16:56, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
I guess a next step is a meeting at 9PM Sydney time today, or Wednesday morning 6AM Sydney time. If you like, prepare a story that you find interesting to write about. Otherwise I can pick one and we could walk through writing that. I think we may need approximately 30 minutes to begin with. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 08:20, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Gryllida}} I'm signed on now--same situation where I'm not actively paying attention but a ping here or a direct message on IRC will probably get my attention (the latter makes a noise, so that helps). It looks like 21:00 in Sydney is in about 3.5 hours--I will just stay on IRC thru then. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

== deleting ==

why did u delete i m trying to help get a news article published. [[User:Baozon90|Baozon90]] ([[User talk:Baozon90|talk]]) 22:42, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Baozon90}} You posted the same thing on both [[Wikinews:Requested articles]] (where it belongs) and [[Wikinews talk:Requested articles]] (which is only used for discussing the requested articles page) and I only removed it from one of those two places. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:53, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

== Ramirez5 ==

[[Special:Contributions/2601:647:6516:39B3:BC54:57DD:AC53:FD7D|2601:647:6516:39B3:BC54:57DD:AC53:FD7D]] ([[User talk:2601:647:6516:39B3:BC54:57DD:AC53:FD7D|talk]]) 22:56, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Starwars is NO MORE
:Oh, okay. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:00, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

== Article?? ==

You haven't submitted an article in a bit? You've done some interesting work here.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

:I have three exclusive interviews that I wanted to publish at times that made sense and a fourth one lined up. I prefer to do original reporting otherwise, I ''sometimes'' will do some of the &quot;I read other news sources and summarized them, but it's mostly a matter of there only being 24&amp;nbsp;hours in a day and my attention going elsewhere. :/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:08, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

== coding ==

Do you program in JavaScript?

Could you write a script that helps with article archival? Something like [[User:Gryllida/js/TagAbandoned.js|this]] that also protects the page. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:39, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

:Not really. All I have ever done in scripting is reverse engineering and tweaking things. I have barely written a script from start to finish, so I'm pretty ignorant about that. Maybe a 3/10 in JavaScript? 2/10? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:23, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] would you agree if i nominated you for adminship? i can help with the coding parts but i find article deletions and protected requests pretty boring beyond belief. i am happy to help you (do you use sip, matrix, discord or telegram?() [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 06:13, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
:::I'd be honored to serve however I can. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:22, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|Gryllida}} Are you motivated to do this still? If so, I'll happily do some work here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:52, 3 September 2025 (UTC)
::::yup thanks a min [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:42, 3 September 2025 (UTC)
:::::[[Wikinews:Requests for permissions/Administrator/Koavf|Nomination added]]. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:50, 3 September 2025 (UTC)

== Welcome to adminship at English Wikinews ==

Hi Koavf

Welcome to being a sysop at the site. 

* Please subscribe to [[WN:AAA]], this is where majority of requests are added, including requests from non-sysops for sysop action, and requests from sysops to get help from other sysops on any admin action.
* Recommended to check recent changes at least once a day, if not more frequently.
* Recommended to 'subscribe' to all Water coolers (there is 5 or 6 of them).
* If you're on IRC, I can provide you access to the admins/sysops channel; message user 'gry' on IRC for this request.
* This is a point to any user at Wikinews. Burnout has been a frequent issue. If you're getting overwhelmed, take a break for a few weeks, with a note on user page when you are planning to come back. I personally encourage myself to do this at least twice a year, although this may be different for other users.

Thank you for volunteering.

Please let me know if you have got any questions.

Many thanks.

Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 08:21, 23 November 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks. I'm honored. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 08:46, 23 November 2025 (UTC)

== A Barnstar for you! ==

[[File:Wikivandelmedal.PNG|framed|left|The Medal of Persistence]] Thank you for promptly and effectively addressing disruptions upon taking office. ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 10:34, 27 November 2025 (UTC)

:How kind. Thanks on Thanksgiving. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:36, 27 November 2025 (UTC)
::Happy Thanksgiving! ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 10:42, 27 November 2025 (UTC)

== Published: [[Grateful Dead bassist Bob Weir dies, aged 78]] (January 16) ==
i spelled out group name assuming meant to be 'the Grateful Dead' where says 'the Dead': please correct this now if this is not correct. thanks. -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 17:58, 15 January 2026 (UTC)

:Thanks kindly and you are correct. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:31, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
::Ok. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 15:32, 16 January 2026 (UTC)

== NEWS STREAK idea proposal ==

Hi Koavf

[[Wikinews:2026 streak competition|NEWS STREAK idea proposal]]

would you like to sign up? It hasn't started yet, but I am collecting interest, and you can '''add your nick to the page'''. 

If you're not doing content edits frequently you could choose another streak period for your news content participation - for example, once each two months rather than once each two weeks...

----

It is being proposed to setup [[:w:streak]] goals over a 12 week period: for example, 

* &quot;write one story each two weeks, and [[:wikt:babysit|babysit]] it until it is published&quot;

This could be either authoring a completely new article or this could be taking over someone else's article and doing focused editing on it with active collaboration with others until it is published. It is like a [[:wikt:day shift|day shift]] as you are expected to remain available '[[:wikt:on call|on call]]' to address concerns from another user or reviewer.

The aim of this is to build a habit of participation with [[:wikt:outburst|outburst]]s of eyeballing the page to collaborate with others -- but not every day, to have breaks and reduce [[:wikt:burnout|burnout]]. Could you please check out at '''[[Wikinews:Water_cooler/proposals#Streak_themed_competition_proposal|this section]]''' and let me know what you think? Parameters are subject to discussion e.g.

* 'once every two weeks' or 'once a week' or 'once a month'
* should this be same for all or each person decides for themselves
* how long total comp running for, 12 weeks or 24 weeks or some other time
* some other ideas how to modify this

i would appreciate if you could reply '''by end of this week''', it would be helpful

please note if you are interested you may signup in [[Wikinews:2026 streak competition]] at page bottom and you will be notified at your talk page if there are any updates or progress of this idea

thanks a lot

----

Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 01:25, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

:thank you for signing up, Koavf. i added one more column, the '''frequency''' -- for example, 'two weeks'. this is the streak frequency parameter you would prefer. for example, 'two weeks' means you would suggest that you work towards publishing one story per each two weeks. if you miss third and fourth week and work towards publishing on week five, then the streak is lost. so longer time period (every 4 weeks can be easier than every 2 weeks) can be easier. please add yours, when you have a moment. :-) regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 02:48, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

== CAT deletions ==

Hi, I saw you deleted a bunch of categories including [[:CAT:September 15, 2018]], that too without a deletion comment -- why is that so? [[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 09:13, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:I did, in fact, delete a bunch of empty categories, yes. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 11:18, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::I am aware that you did.  I am asking as to why -- because we have had those empty date cats since forever.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:05, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I'm trying to do clean-up of all the maintenance reports before this becomes read-only. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 12:25, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Is there a reason to remove all these CATs which we have always had for tracking purpose?  if not, please restore them. [[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 16:57, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::The reason is the one I gave above: they are empty categories. What purpose could they serve? There are also categories for dates post-locking of this wiki. How could anyone possibly be helped by that? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:06, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Those empty cats were tracking cats for if there was any news published that day XOR not -- for people to be able to access it.  Empty cat shows that there was indeed nothing published rather than having some blunder on-wiki.  This breaks pages like [[:Category:March 22, 2026]] by saying &quot;create Category:March 23, 2026&quot;.  Please do not break the age-long functionality of enwn.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 17:31, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not really sure that an empty category that gets [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikinews.org&amp;platform=all-access&amp;agent=user&amp;redirects=0&amp;start=2025-04-01&amp;end=2026-04-01&amp;pages=Category:September_1,_2006 one view every four days] while the site is still active is very useful, but I can undelete them. It will take a little time. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:35, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

== Thank you ==

Hi Koavf

I am writing to you because I am not reviewing articles for next few weeks due to imminent migration.

* I had decided not to review articles after mid-April due to possible required time and effort for migration. Link to the migration discussion &quot;[[meta:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]]&quot;, and I would like to invite you to participate. For now there is one possible venue with joined Miraheze and Wikimedia NYC hosting but their communication appears to be happening off-wiki as far as I know and I do not know their possible result nor the timing of that discussion. I am grateful for anything that you may do to help.
*If the migration is completed I am willing to commit to reviewing more timely and to build an infrastructure and workflow that results in reasonably accurate and fresh stories being published and to help the group grow.
* I appreciate you being here, your help with software and discussions has made my editing here more meaningful for me and it would not be the same without you.

If there are specific tasks related to migration that you would like my help with, please let me know.

Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:09, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

:Thanks and right back atcha. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 13:27, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i20gbbo3o6cziiq40x894un03ys7kwn</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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[[Image:New Zealand (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[New Zealand Navy ship HMNZS Manawanui capsizes one nautical mile from shore]]
* [[India defeats New Zealand to win 2025 Champions Trophy]]
* [[New Zealand court overturns Whakaari Management Limited conviction]]
* [[New Zealand defeats South Africa to win 2024 women's T20 cricket world cup]]
* [[&quot;Energized and excited&quot;: Chris Hipkins becomes 41st Prime Minister of New Zealand]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of New Zealand.svg|90px|center|link=Category:New Zealand]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>/* Protecting templates */ reply ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
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&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot;&gt;'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]&lt;/span&gt; [[File:Gtk-refresh.svg|20px|link={{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}}|Refresh this page]]'''&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
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[[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals/Archive|Archive]]
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----
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== Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace? ==

Regarding the FlaggedRevs extension in this project, I would like to propose both of the following:
# We limit the namespace to only 0 (article namespace), since other namespaces are not considered to be reader material.
# Set &lt;code&gt;$wgFlaggedRevsHandleIncludes&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;0&lt;/code&gt; (&lt;code&gt;$wgFlaggedRevsHandleIncludes = 0&lt;/code&gt;), which should no longer allow FlaggedRevs to detect the stable version of templates in articles, if available.
I have done [[:b:en:Wikibooks:Reading room/Proposals#Limit some namespaces on this project's FlaggedRevs extension?|a similar proposal]] months ago on English Wikibooks. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 06:07, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
: I like the idea. I'd like to see what other, more technical folks have to say before officially supporting it. We may also benefit from waiting until en.WB completes their change to see what issues they run into in the process.
: We would need to organize a small project team to go through all templates and deal with unsighted changes before the config change, to ensure unsighted changes aren't either lost or auto-sighted, depending on how the process handles unsighted changes. 
: We also are waiting for the WMF Board to announce their decision on the recommendation to close all Wikinews. There would be no sense in doing the work if they are closing the project.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:23, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
::If there is a plan to migrate the wiki to new hosting, then any last minute changes would also be migrated. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 19:22, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Wikibooks has already done this. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 20:05, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Yeah and what was their motivation? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 20:24, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
::::On English Wikibooks, we wanted to limit FlaggedRevs to article content namespaces, and it worked, but not before we also had to implement &lt;code&gt;$wgFlaggedRevsHandleIncludes = 0&lt;/code&gt; too. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 19:09, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::I did not understand why. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:40, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::In the context of article content namespaces, that would be the mainspace, Cookbook, and Wikijunior. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 18:29, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] In short, because otherwise banners like [[phab:F69801009]] would have been irremovably present on pages transcluding a template that (a) had once been reviewed, &amp; (b) hadn't yet had its most recent version reviewed. This is probably a bug in FlaggedRevs itself ([[phab:T411328]]), but given the extension's [[phab:T185664|current maintenance situation]], I wouldn't personally expect it to necessarily be fixed anytime soon. (In case you're interested, I left a bit of a longer explanation on phab at [[phab:T408110#11370668]] &amp; on en.wikibooks in [[b:en:special:gotocomment/c-A_smart_kitten-20251115215100-Codename_Noreste-20251115190500|this comment]].) Best, [[user:a smart kitten|a smart kitten]] ([[user talk:a smart kitten|talk]]) 13:04, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::(Oh, I just realised that you might not have been asking about why enwikibooks also set &lt;code&gt;$wgFlaggedRevsHandleIncludes&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;0&lt;/code&gt;. Apologies if so :p) [[user:a smart kitten|a smart kitten]] ([[user talk:a smart kitten|talk]]) 13:05, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
:Hi [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]], what is the motivation for these two proposed changes? What would they improve? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 19:21, 5 January 2026 (UTC)
::[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]], I replied above. I saw the [[Wikinews:Reviewing articles|article review policy]] about the following: {{tq|Please note that only users who have the reviewer permission should review and publish articles.}} Because of that, I think it would make sense to only limit FlaggedRevs to just the article namespace only. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 00:23, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::The current setup allows anyone to edit a template and it would only become visible on other pages after a reviewer approves the edit. So, the change that is being proposed, would make it harder for non-reviewer users to make minor changes to templates and other non-(Main) pages: instead of just clicking 'edit' they would need to go to talk page and request a change there. On the plus side however, it would relieve reviewers from ''that'' (non-Main) backlog. I am fine either way; I am neutral on this issue. If needed, I can help with the implementation of a change if it was desired. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 05:01, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::: {{tq|The current setup allows anyone to edit a template}}
:::: This is not true. Many are edit-protected to one degree or another. For example, no one but administrators can edit [[Template:Source]] and only an admin+reviewer can sight the change. 
:::: {{tq|the change that is being proposed, would make it harder for non-reviewer users to make minor changes to templates'}}
:::: Disabling Flagged Revs would not make it harder to make changes to templates. It would make changes immediately visible everywhere the template is transcluded.
:::: {{tq|instead of just clicking 'edit' they would need to go to talk page and request a change there.'}}
:::: What you are describing here is edit protection, not flagged revs. When templates use flagged revs, changes made by ''anyone'' must be sighted or approved by a reviewer. If the template is protected such as template:source to admin-only level, we need someone who is both reviewer ''and'' admin to make and sight the change. 
:::: {{tq|On the plus side however, it would relieve reviewers from ''that'' (non-Main) backlog.'}}
:::: Removing flagged revs would reduce the number of changes that need to be approved, but currently only by 14%. The remaining 195 changes still need to be processed. 
:::: Removing flagged revs from templates will not only make it easier to maintain our templates, it will also reduce our risk if something should go wrong with the flagged revs.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:44, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::1. OK, make it harder to edit ''some'' templates. (Not all are edit protected.)
:::::2. It would make it harder for editing ''some'' templates - those that are not edit protected.
:::::3. Not really interested in that scenario; interested in those that are not edit protected. Those that are edit protected, it is correct that they require an admin and a reviewer with current setup, and only a admin with proposed setup. But that was not the point that I was raising. 
:::::3a. Setting &lt;pre&gt;$wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['review'] = true; //allow administrators to review revisions&lt;/pre&gt; could be an option, if needed. A request would need to be made that sysops only work outside of main namespace, and possibly only with cosmetic edits to main namespace. That too would reduce reviewers backlog as they would not need to sight changes where a vandal did something and it was undone back identical to previous revision, or minor formatting and punctuation edits.
:::::4. Ok, fine. By 14% is still helpful.
:::::2, 4. It is not called &quot;removing / disabling flaggedrevs&quot;, it is called &quot;disabling flaggedrevs on namespaces that are not main&quot;. Removing it implies removing the extension from the wiki altogether, and is not a part of this proposal. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 18:38, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::: {{tq|make it harder to edit ''some'' templates}}
:::::: Disabling flagged revs in template space won't make it harder to edit ''any'' templates. It will allow for changes to be immediately transcluded, without requiring changes to be sighted (approved). 
:::::: Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say here. But since you are neutral on the change, maybe it also doesn't matter that I can't make sense of it.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:09, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::as I said earlier, if those templates that are under flaggedrevs control now will become protected, they will become harder for non-(privleged) users to edit. I am assuming that they will be protected. there was no consensus here on making them free for anyone to edit. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:07, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:* {{support}}: I do think it would be a better idea to limit it to the main namespace only. As I understand it, the primary focus of the Reviewers user group is to review and evaluate articles and publish them, along with related changes. This would certainly reduce the additional, less important pending changes burden in other namespaces. But, before implementing this as Michael.C.Wright suggests, all current non mainspace changes should be sighted first. Besides that, I do not currently have any other points against this in mind. 
:-- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 14:22, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::Pinging [[User:A smart kitten|A smart kitten]] to my FlaggedRevs proposal here, as they might know a little bit more about this extension than we do. I'll probably file a task for this today, given that some are in favor of this change. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 15:18, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::2 yes and 1 neutral. I would suggest wait a bit more before filing task. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 18:57, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::To be clear, I wouldn't say I'm an expert on FlaggedRevs by any means :p - I just know a bit that I looked into while working on [[phab:T408110]] :) 
:::I left a note re &lt;code&gt;$wgFlaggedRevsHandleIncludes&lt;/code&gt; [[#c-A_smart_kitten-20260218130400-Gryllida-20260111164000|above]], but feel free to ping me if there are any other questions about the proposal from a technical perspective. Best, [[user:a smart kitten|a smart kitten]] ([[user talk:a smart kitten|talk]]) 13:09, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
: {{Support}} Since I didn't make that explicit...apologies.
: I should have time later today to work through the pending changes to templates if someone doesn't get to them sooner.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:01, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
: &lt;strike&gt;Aside from the one above waiting on [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]],&lt;/strike&gt; we have all pending changes to templates done. I can keep an eye on them and sight them as a priority until we get the flagged revs disabled for template namespace.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:59, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
: The Phabricator ticket for the request has been closed as 'resolved.'[https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T418066]
: I checked [[Template:Source]] and [[Template:Date]] to test, and verified that I no longer have the option to ''Submit changes'' as opposed to ''Save changes'' and there is no option to &quot;Mark this version as reviewed&quot; as expected if FlaggedRevs were disabled for templates.  
: I think we should leave this discussion open for a week or two longer, just in case we run across any issues. Thank you @[[User:Pppery|Pppery]], @[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]], and @[[User:A smart kitten|A smart kitten]]![[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 00:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
=== Protecting templates ===
: I am working through the pending changes to templates now. I think it would be wise to protect all templates to 'auto-confirm' accounts as a minimum, not changing any existing protection levels. A lot of the pending changes so far include reverted vandalism (this is good, it is being found and reverted quickly). Many of the vandals are IP/temp accounts, which presumably haven't yet been auto-confirmed. 
: That could be a lot of tedious work to do up front, but may pay off in the long run. 
: Any thoughts/objections?[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:35, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::Do you have a few examples? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 18:48, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::: Feel free to look through the edit history/recent changes. I was typically descriptive using 'vandalism undone.'[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:49, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::: I just hit this one, so here's an example: [[Template:TScope/ex/doc]]. 
::: Feel free to take action on it.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:51, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Hi
::::Ah yes. Those were not edit protected, and anyone could edit them. For when nobody looking, that backlog is pretty tame... 
::::#I personally would think that edit protect them makes sense only if the proposed change was to go ahead -
::::# but then, I would suggest to make them &quot;reviewer or admin only&quot; as is more similar to like the current setup, where the intent is for the edit to be checked by a privileged user. Relying on recent change patrolling may not work well on a small wiki that is news focused.
::::# In any case of protection I would suggest to work on making it easier to request an edit. Clicking &quot;talk&quot; and leaving a message is pretty hard For a newbie. 
::::# Could the software show a banner at top of all edit protected pages with a big fat &quot;request edit&quot; button that takes to new section at talk with relevant &quot;edit protected request&quot; or whatever template already filled in with a space to describe proposed edit and reason. This banner should only show for users who do not have the privilege to edit the page. 
::::# If needed i can write a js that protects page, places a banner at page top, and sights the edit.
::::- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 19:10, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: &gt; ''I would suggest to make them &quot;reviewer or admin only&quot; as is more similar to like the current setup, where the intent is for the edit to be checked by a privileged user.''
::::: We can't set &quot;reviewer&quot; as a level of protection. It's not available in the protection menu (I'm not sure if we can somehow enable it). 
::::: Also, protecting to admin-only would put too much burden on a group that is already underserved and over-taxed. It is further frustrated by the fact that one of our two interface admins ([[User:Asked42|Asked42]]) is neither a reviewer nor an admin and therefore they would not be able make ''any'' changes to templates if we protected them all to reviewer (if we are able) or admin. 
::::: A good portion of the changes I sighted were indeed made by Asked42.
::::: I think auto-confirmed as the minimum baseline, with some fully protected (as they already are) is a good compromise/happy medium.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:23, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::yes we can add a [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgRestrictionLevels $wgRestrictionLevels], i guess 'sysop or reviewer or interface admin' could work [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:06, 21 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::This would require initiating a separate proposal to add &lt;code&gt;editautoreviewprotected&lt;/code&gt; as a protection level and user right (autoreviewed users, reviewers, and administrators). Protection for interface administrators is currently not possible, as regular administrators cannot edit site CSS/JS pages, or CSS and JS pages in any user's userspace (except for their own). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 21:10, 21 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::: Based on this, I think we should protect all templates to a minimum 'auto-confirmed' level, then increase it on an as-needed basis, with the understanding that over-protection impedes regular maintenance. &lt;br&gt;Protecting all templates to reviewer + admin is in my opinion overkill and prevents our single, active, interface admin from being able to make any changes to any templates. &lt;br&gt;Very few of our templates are used on published articles, which is arguably our most sensitive namespace as far as vandalism is concerned. &lt;br&gt;This also requires no changes be made to the overall config. &lt;br&gt;So to be clear, I would support the following (&lt;del&gt;assuming&lt;/del&gt; &lt;ins&gt;I assume&lt;/ins&gt; we also do it in the following order):
:::::::: 
::::::::* Protecting all templates to a minimum of auto-confirmed users
::::::::* Remove/disable flagged revs in the Template namespace
:::::::: [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 23:01, 21 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::that risks all sysops (who may be awol at times) missing an edit an autoconfirmed user made, whereas protecting would prevent this. i think on a small wiki it is better to reduce risk of an edit being made inadvertedly and then being missed. this is not wikipedia where good faith is assumed and infinite resources are available for post-edit page patrol. that would be a low activity backlog anyway seeing that you handled all pending revisions within less than a day - and they were accumulated over course of a few years i believed. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:09, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Whatever user right, it should be granted based on consensus or a sysop decision, not &quot;this user was on wiki for 3 days therefore not spammer&quot; (whatever that was named), in my view. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:22, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::::: I {{oppose}} applying reviewer and/or admin-only protection to all templates. It will make general maintenance too difficult. &lt;br&gt;I {{support}} applying auto-confirm protection to all templates that are not currently protected, or:&lt;br&gt;I {{support}} not changing template protection broadly at this time. I don't think this decision should impede the original proposal since it was added later.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:11, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

::I initiated [[phab:T418066]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 20:58, 21 February 2026 (UTC)
: Note that we recently had an issue with our Main page not transcluding updates to the lead article templates and the cause is suspected to be the disabling of FlaggedRevs in the template namespace. 
: See [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] for details. See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 for more details.
: If you see similar issues with templates not displaying, please notify everyone at [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]]. 
: Thanks![[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 22:30, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

==== Options how to protect ====
For templates which are current in control by flagged revs, a reviewer has to sight an edit for it to be approved and become included in other pages. With the flagged revs being disabled for them. There is a need to make a decision what to do to prevent vandalism and other unwanted edits.

* Option 1: do nothing; the templates become available for anyone to edit. Another user can undo that. There is a risk that an edit is done wrong; any user can monitor and undo.
* Option 2: protect on 'auto-confirmed' level. Accounts with the 'autoconfirmed' privilege can edit. Another 'autoconfirmed' user can undo if needed. There is a risk that an edit is done wrong; an 'autoconfirmed' user or users need to check recent changes and monitor. This inconveniences users who are not 'autoconfirmed' because they havve to open a new section at talk page to request an edit. Work load on 'auto-confirmed' is increased because they have to monitor such requests and recent changes.
* Option 3: protect on 'some new privilege name here' level. The privilege is given out to any user who was doing something constructive and is provided by request without needing to do a full vote. A vote may be held to remove it if needed or an admin can remove that privilege if it was misused. Another 'some new privilege name here' user can undo if needed. There is a risk that an edit is done wrong; an 'some new privilege name here' user or users need to check recent changes and monitor. This inconveniences users who are not a'some new privilege name here' because now they have to manually request new edits at the talk page. Work load on 'some new privilege name here' is increased because they have to monitor such requests and recent changes.
* Option 4: protect on 'reviewer or sysop or interface admin' level. Accounts with 'reviewer or sysop or interface admin' privilege can edit, and another user with that privilege can undo if needed. There is a risk that an edit is done wrong, however, the pool of users was hand selected and voted on and the risk was reduced. This inconveniences users who are not a 'reviewer or sysop or interface admin' because now they have to manually request new edits at the talk page. Work load on 'reviewer or sysop or interface admin' is increased because they have to monitor such requests and recent changes.
* Option 5: protect on 'sysop' level. Accounts with sysop (Administrator) privilege can edit, and another user with that privilege can undo if needed. There is a risk that an edit is done wrong, however, the pool of users was hand selected and voted on and the risk was reduced. This inconveniences users who are not a Administrator because now they have to manually request new edits at the talk page. Work load on 'Administrator' is increased because they have to monitor such requests and recent changes.
Let me know if I missed something. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 03:01, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

Comments and discussion

* I have stronger support for 5 than 4 than 3 than 2. The amount of such changes made in template namespace was tiny and I propose to reduce load on 'contributors, users, reviewers, and interface admins', as they best work on news. Solving vandalism or 'hey lets change this because thats how i did it somewhere else and i thought that is good here' or 'i am confused' issues is a sysop job (ignoring that sysops have huge backlog because I am here and I don't even know that these tasks exist, but still. sysop handle mitigations of abuse and approvals of legit edits, in my view. I do not want to bring up question of sysop backlog size or lack of prior involvement in such issues before as it is not directly relevant to my argument). [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 02:50, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal to ban usage of AI at Wikinews ==

From [[Wikinews:Deletion_requests#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260107193100-Israeli_naval_ships_intercept_Gaza-bound_Global_Sumud_Flotilla]] there is a note from @[[User:Ternera|Ternera]] &quot;I would even go so far as to propose that we block all AI articles on this wiki.&quot;. I agree with this proposal in short term. In long term I think it would be good to allow it after some reliable workflow is developed. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] may be interested in this discussion. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:51, 7 January 2026 (UTC)

=== Votes ===
* {{support}} noting this is for short term only and further effort could be undertaken to see what went wrong and how it could be addressed. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:51, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
*:I'm unsure about this right now [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 22:05, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
*::{{oppose}} greatly, [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 22:21, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
*::Hi @[[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] what would you think of requirement 'ai involved articles are in beta phrase, and are only allowed to be written for events which happened on first day of the month'? or some other random blanket rule that leads to effort managing ai generated content as a beta stage only and not every day. then maybe some understanding could be reached how to use ai more efficiently. please let me know, thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:26, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
*:::im just so used to using AI I personally enjoy it and I think it helps in some ways to news stories. @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 20:27, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
*:Yes, short term. When AI gets better or we have more manpower etc., we of course gonna use it. But not for now [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 04:45, 9 January 2026 (UTC)
*::Hi @[[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]], what would you think of requirement 'ai involved articles are in beta phrase, and are only allowed to be written for events which happened on first day of the month'? or some other random blanket rule that leads to effort managing ai generated content as a beta stage only and not every day. then maybe some understanding could be reached how to use ai more efficiently. please let me know, thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:26, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* {{support}} a ban on AI generated news pieces. I'm not seeing how it provides value since anyone can ask AI to summarize a news article. Plus, the AI model appears to hallucinate and includes false information or bad sources, so it seems like it creates unnecessary work. [[User:Ternera|Ternera]] ([[User talk:Ternera|talk]]) 21:55, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
*: I used AI to help with the following published articles, for just a few examples:
::
::* [[U.S. strikes Iranian nuclear sites Fordow, Natanz, Isfahan overnight]]
::* [[NASA revises asteroid 2024 YR4 threat, near-zero chance of Earth impact]]
::* [[United States sends second aircraft carrier to Middle East, extends ''Truman'' deployment]]
::* [[Oregon court rules voter-approved gun law constitutional]]
::* [[US Navy Secretary nominee Phelan outlines readiness, cost-cutting reforms in Senate hearing]]
:: 
:: I believe they all benefitted from it. I'm not saying they're perfect, but I think they benefitted from AI assistance.  
:: I also use it to check neutrality and balance during reviews and I find it's very helpful in that regard.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 22:59, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Ternera|Ternera]] what would you think of requirement 'ai involved articles are in beta phrase, and are only allowed to be written for events which happened on first day of the month'? or some other random blanket rule that leads to effort managing ai generated content as a beta stage only and not every day. then maybe some understanding could be reached how to use ai more efficiently. please let me know, thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:27, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* {{oppose}} Each instance of AI hallucinations slipping through was either 1. A violation of [[WN:AI]] or 2. Should have been caught by the review process, or both. Maybe if we de-flagged reviewers after three AI slip-ups in published articles, we'd catch more of them sooner. &lt;br&gt;I think AI should be treated no different than a human editor. That means any hallucinations, which are simply inaccuracies or unsupported statements by another name, are catchable in the review process (but should be caught in the development process). I would imagine if we ban it, we will simply drive its use &quot;underground.&quot; &lt;br&gt;And to be clear; I'm not advocating for AI-generated articles, but AI-assisted articles. &lt;br&gt;I'd prefer that we enforce the full and complete review process. Pseudo-reviews that skip the verification process predictably lead to more corrections and retractions.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 22:38, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
::I think we have yet to update [[Wikinews:The use of AI in generating content]] then approve it either as a policy or a guideline. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 22:41, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
::: I agree. The proposed guideline variously states that humans are responsible for the state of the article. 
::: 
:::* &quot;these drafts must always be critically reviewed and fact-checked by human contributors before submission.&quot;
:::* &quot;the final decisions on wording and style remain human-led.&quot;
:::* &quot;any interpretation or conclusions drawn must be reviewed by human contributors.&quot;
:::* &quot;The editorial process, including pre-reviews and final reviews, must always be carried out by human contributors.&quot;
::: [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 22:52, 7 January 2026 (UTC)
::::AI makes stuff up and this is quite dangerous. I asked it about a snow hazard in Switzerland and provided list of 3 sources; it told me the date  13 months off. If AI assistance is to be kept, I would suggest requiring that the author(s) provide a list of prompts to their AI tool on the talk page. This could help to improve quality of reports. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 02:09, 8 January 2026 (UTC)
::::: &gt; ''AI makes stuff up and this is quite dangerous.''
::::: However, those facts must be present in the listed sources to be included in our article. Bogus facts provided by AI won't be in the listed sources. &lt;br&gt;A full and complete review will catch that. That's how they were caught in both recent cases where a retraction was proposed. Someone read the article and tried to verify every statement against the sources.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 03:06, 8 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::I was told Grok AI gave information on underage kids pornography so strong delete@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 17:55, 8 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::::https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/05/elon-musk-grok-ai-digitally-undress-images-of-women-children [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 17:58, 8 January 2026 (UTC)
::&quot;Maybe if we de-flagged reviewers after three AI slip-ups in published articles, we'd catch more of them sooner.&quot; Should the authors be penalised in any way, if they repeatedly fail to catch AI's hallucinations? I'd like to know your opinion on this, @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]]. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:20, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::: Authors are responsible for accuracy. But reviewers bear final accountability for published content because review is a permission granted by the community to publish on its behalf. In these cases, the failure was not the existence of errors, but their approval through incomplete review.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:56, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Hi @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]]
::::1. I ask to approach both reviewer and author in these cases as they both need to change their approach to ensure issues don't happen again and again. I asked you and you said 'Yeah, except reviewers were elected.' Yeah, sure, but my point still stands. I'm speaking of both.
::::2. Doesn't answer my question how to handle users who repeatedly insert same kind of issues into articles. That is not even always visible as the review feedback of failed articles gets deleted along with their talk page. I try to at least post a copy of it onto talk page via 'custom message' feature of ezpr2. Make that an official policy, would you? I'm sure you would be interested in this as it would allow to keep track of issues in articles submitted by that user in one spot, and provide a path towards figuring out why they happen and how to solve them, and improve 'article quality'.
::::3. And the same could go to posting feedback to a reviewer's talk page about post-publish retractions etc. I believe I didn't even ''get'' a talk page message about that retraction request; yet I did get an insinuation here. The note that a particular reviewer is being dodgy sits in your mind and doesn't sit on their talk page. I think that's inefficient. The concern about your mentioning of de-flagging lies in unnecessary escalation; the general civil thing to do has been to leave a message at a talk page before taking further action.
::::Hope it helps. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:14, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] see [[:w:Hallucination (artificial intelligence)]] for your reference in case you didn't know, regards [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:28, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::: Since hallucinations are inaccuracies, they won't be in the linked sources. So a full and proper [[WN:REV]] would catch them. Just as they were caught in the previously mentioned articles ''once a full and proper review was performed.''
::: &lt;blockquote&gt;The reviewer should check that all information in the article is fully sourced,&lt;/blockquote&gt;
::: Seems like we already have the solution; perform full and proper reviews.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:21, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Seems like incomplete solution since users don't fix anything fast. I have seen it tried for 15 years. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 15:50, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;{{Support}}&lt;/s&gt;I don't think we are on the right side of history. But current experience shows that editers and reviewers can not determine if theres any content in an AI generated article. And we &quot;cannot edit after it published&quot;, so no remedies can be made. I also believe we should issue an announcement after disabling AI, which would show that we are a responsible media outlet.

Of course, I maintain the stance discussed earlier that, ideally, editors should consciously strive to discern, and reviewers should ensure everything meets the standards, such as accuracy. If the review process can achieve this, it doesn't matter whether the article is written by a human, Shakespeare's monkey, or AI, nor is explicit labeling necessary, because we ultimately get a good article.

I'm not saying people can't achieve this, but it requires too much effort, which is clearly not cost-effective. And if we implement policies similar to this now instead of banning AI, it will lead to situations where submissions written with AI cannot be published due to insufficient and timely review, which is obviously not in our favor.

I apologize for the mistakes in an article I participated in editing. ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 04:03, 9 January 2026 (UTC)
: &gt; ''editers and reviewers can not determine if theres any content in an AI generated article.''&lt;br&gt;If that were true, how was it identified for the proposed retraction?[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:32, 9 January 2026 (UTC)
::I'm just coming to this now and have no idea what this question is asking. Is there some background somewhere about a proposed retraction that isn't immediately clear in this thread? What is that phrase referring to? [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 04:13, 10 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Yes, the proposed deletion linked in the first sentence of this section. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:19, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Hi @[[User:Tduk|Tduk]] fyi 
:::* for last few months now, partly due to my medical issues and partly due to my preference, i have been publishing articles checking only the basics (5Ws and H) and not checking each sentence thoroughly. i read through sources and ensure that what i have read does not have serious npov issues or contradictions that immediately strike my mind, but don't check fully.
:::* i believe @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] has made it clear that he is here to uphold the standards to highest thresholds and now this is taking the form of him doing a full review of an article at time of archival. i disagree with this approach as i think it is taking away his valuable time from reviewing stories which are actually fresh. i do not believe anyone ever did a full review of an article at time of archival. this process previously only involved checking for red links, issues anyone previously flagged at a talk page, etc.
:::* this in some cases results in him finding a full bucket of issues that he does not wish to write a 'correction' for because it would require a complete article rewrite. as i am one of the active (and lazy) reviewers here i should normally reply to these requests but i lack the energy to do this as my current state for last few months results in my energy levels being extremely low, at around 40% of what an average person has got. cause is unknown. 
:::* yet i keep reviewing articles and keep ignoring these requests to retract articles because it is even harder to reply to those than to one full review in the first place (need to articulate why some of the points being nitpicked were utter bullshit, as i find that i do disagree with some of them). 
:::* this leads to me becoming more exhausted and circles back to me not participating properly
:::* there is an ondoing discussion of it in [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Proposed change to review process by Gryllida Version 202512|this section (on the very same 'proposals' subpage of water cooler)]]
:::hope this helps you to get an idea of the situation at least qualitatively. 
:::regards [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:36, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
:Hi @[[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]], i liked that thought, that catching AI hallucinations is time consuming and may lead to delays in publishing.   [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:25, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
: {{q|[A]t the time of publication, a news article must be solidly fact-checked and as objective as possible.|30px|30px|[[m:Wikinews|''Wikinews''' mission statement at Meta]]}}
: To make sure I understand the position being advanced here, I see the following claims and implications:
: 
:* That, for an extended period[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Talk:Competitive_local_elections_held_in_England#Review_of_revision_4855230_%5BNot_ready%5D], reviews have been intentionally conducted without full verification, despite policy requiring it.
:* That multiple proposals have been made to relax or redefine review expectations[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Water_cooler/assistance/archives/2024/November#c-Gryllida-20241020021900-Michael.C.Wright-20241014152800],[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Water_cooler/miscellaneous/archives/2025/June#'5W_Brief'_format] to align with this reduced, 5W-only level of scrutiny, but without community consensus.
:* That, following retractions triggered by full verification after publication, the proposed remedy is to restrict or ban AI use rather than to restore compliance with existing review standards.
:* That AI-assisted content is treated as uniquely suspect, while comparable human errors from incomplete review are framed as understandable due to fatigue.
:* That thorough verification during review is characterized as counterproductive because it increases post-publication workload, rather than being recognized as work that belongs in the review process.
: 
: I disagree with those priorities.
: You previously articulated the risk clearly yourself, noting that becoming more liberal in approvals in order to increase output is “disastrous,”[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#c-Gryllida-2013-08-28T21:28:00.000Z-Wikiwide-2013-08-28T12:57:00.000Z] and that pursuing readership through speed leads to biased, lower-quality journalism. That analysis remains sound and is manifest here in the number of resultant retractions.
: Applying full verification after publication did create additional work, but only because required checks were knowingly deferred during review. The remedy is not to restrict tools, but to align review practice with policy.
: The underlying issue is not that policy was followed, but that it was repeatedly and unilaterally dismissed.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:42, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::This is too long, but I will answer each point anyway.
::* That, for an extended period[4], reviews have been intentionally conducted without full verification, despite policy requiring it.
::** Yes. I try to do full verification to a degree, but not to each letter. The motivation here is to verify key details and publish while article is still fresh.
::* That multiple proposals have been made to relax or redefine review expectations[5],[6] to align with this reduced, 5W-only level of scrutiny, but without community consensus.
::** That discussion is still open.
::* That, following retractions triggered by full verification after publication, the proposed remedy is to restrict or ban AI use rather than to restore compliance with existing review standards.
::** This is an overloaded sentence for me. For once, it's not only 'review' standards at the plate, it's also the 'write up' standards on the plate.
::* That AI-assisted content is treated as uniquely suspect, while comparable human errors from incomplete review are framed as understandable due to fatigue.
::** I do not know where this came from; please try phrasing it again. I lack resource to attempt to read this more than once.
::* That thorough verification during review is characterized as counterproductive because it increases post-publication workload, rather than being recognized as work that belongs in the review process.
::** I do not know where this came from; please try phrasing it again. I lack resource to attempt to read this more than once.
::* Pursuing readership through speed leads to biased, lower-quality journalism
::** I do not care about readership. I do not know why you think I care of ''that''.
::* &quot;Applying full verification after publication did create additional work, but only because required checks were knowingly deferred during review. The remedy is not to restrict tools, but to align review practice with policy.&quot; is missing a 'In my view' note.
::* &quot;The underlying issue is not that policy was followed, but that it was repeatedly and unilaterally dismissed.&quot; 
::** I do not agree with this statement. I do not think the current policy requires 100% coverage of fact check.
::Hope this helps. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 15:57, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::: &gt; ''I do not think the current policy requires 100% coverage of fact check.''
::: It is explicit: &quot;The reviewer should check that all information in the article is fully sourced...&quot;
::: It's been a part of the policy since its inception, [[Special:Diff/672352|eighteen years ago]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:04, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Thanks for that. Posted below. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:35, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{Comment}} My understanding is that, for a fair amount of time:
::* There has been a lack of humans, writing articles, editing articles and reviewing them, making it difficult to publish even one article a week;
::* That for a fair amount of articles &quot;written&quot; with usage of AI, the quality problems were significant - not only in style of writing, but even in &quot;facts&quot; mentioned in the article;
::* That we currently have a tool to discourage blatant plagiarism from sources - which therefore encourages &quot;lazy&quot; (or tired, or whatever) contributors to use AI as text generator;
::* AI assisted content is not treated as uniquely suspect. Rather, where text is written by humans, humans are much less likely to generate hallucinations, and much more likely to follow guidelines for writing articles. AI assisted content doesn't know Wikinews guidelines, and even if it were provided with them, it would still be likely to hallucinate;
::The proposals in this thread have included:
::* Temporarily banning AI usage for writing of text in Wikinews articles - which I tend to agree with, though I would prefer a constructive discussion on positive and negative examples of AI generated contributions to Wikinews;
::* Removing reviewer duties from people who have missed AI hallucinations in articles they have published - which I absolutely disagree with. We need more people in Wikinews, not less.
::I would like to add the following proposals:
::* Possibly, add a tool to detect AI hallucinations - numbers (10 or ten or dozens - format doesn't matter), places, people which are not mentioned in the sources;
::* Or even better, write a Wikinews-specific (AI-powered? I don't like AI, but if you do, go ahead, contribute to development and testing) tool to generate text based on the provided links to sources;
::* Remember that having duties of being a reviewer doesn't deprive you of rights of being an editor. If an article needs improvement and editors are not showing up, feel free to improve it yourself - with caveat that you will have to find another reviewer to publish it afterwards.
::Reviewers don't have to be perfect. Reviewers need to be there, active and helping. But they don't have to be perfect. They just have to do their best. And discouraging writers and reviewers, penalizing them for their mistakes, can kill the project. This isn't school where kids have to go, whether they want to or not. This is a project based on volunteers. So instead of wasting their time with these heated opinionated threads and further dividing the community, get out there and do what you can. /AI will not write Wikinews for us./ [[User:Wikiwide|Wikiwide]] ([[User talk:Wikiwide|talk]]) 07:48, 12 January 2026 (UTC)
::: &gt; ''Reviewers don't have to be perfect. Reviewers need to be there, active and helping. But they don't have to be perfect. They just have to do their best.''
:::: We hold contributors accountable under our policies and guidelines, and the same applies to reviewers. '''Publishing inaccurate, biased, or plagiarized content due to incomplete review should not be acceptable.''' Reviewers volunteer for the role with an understanding of its requirements. Unilaterally choosing to disregard core policy for convenience undermines that responsibility, creates more work for others, and damages the project's reputation. 
::: 
::: 
:::: If reviewers knowingly accept inaccuracies, bias, or plagiarism for reasons of convenience, it raises a fundamental question about the purpose of the reviewer role itself. The review function exists precisely to prevent those failures, not to normalize them.
::: [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:49, 12 January 2026 (UTC)
::: &gt; ''Removing reviewer duties from people who have missed AI hallucinations''&lt;br&gt;That was not proposed. I forwarded a thought experiment by saying &quot;'''Maybe''' [emphasis added] if we de-flagged reviewers after three AI slip-ups in published articles, we'd catch more of them sooner.&quot;&lt;br&gt;There used to be the notion of &quot;easy-come, easy-go&quot; for the reviewer bit. There is a very brief discussion [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/archives/2010/June#%7B%7BUser Wikinews reviewer%7D%7D|here]] between Pi zero and Brian McNeil, two contributors who were instrumental in developing the modern review process. That discussion illustrates the level of attention to detail they hoped for from reviewers. Our current policies and guidelines still largely reflect that expectation. &lt;br&gt;My point is that this is not the way to go about policy change. What has occurred is one reviewer has unilaterally disregarded policy for personal convenience (as stated), and that has resulted in the publication of inaccuracies, bias, and/or plagiarism. &lt;br&gt;If [[WN:IAR]] is used as a justification (and it has not been, so far), even that requires the action to ''improve'' the project.&lt;br&gt;Reviewing as if a policy change has occurred, when it has not, predictably increases post-publication errors and workload. It then becomes circular to cite those downstream burdens as justification for lowering the standard that would have prevented them.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:42, 12 January 2026 (UTC)
::::I don't think there was disregard from one reviewer, that's why I opened RFC below. I believe that doing 100% verification was not common practice. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:04, 12 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Do we have consensus? @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]], @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 21:58, 12 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::Not before a few other contributors weigh in. This may take a few weeks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 12:58, 18 January 2026 (UTC)
*{{support}} At this time. Let's see what the future holds, though. Maybe let's revisit this next year?--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:19, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
*'''Support''' a ban on unsupervised use of genAI for article creation or expansion, {{Oppose}} a blanket ban. Part of why I oppose the &quot;nuclear option&quot; is because it's nearly impossible to definitively know whether a certain sentence was purely AI-generated or merely the signature of a more formal human writing. As long as it's used responsibly, genAI can be a very handy tool for writing [[WN:Breaking news|breaking news articles]], seeking feedback on the quality of an almost complete article, correcting the grammar, translating content, and other purposes. For example, when I wrote &quot;[[Bangladeshi interim leader Muhammad Yunus returns home after four-day visit to London]]&quot; and &quot;[https://web.archive.org/web/20250707221334/https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Australia%27s_truth_commission_finds_genocide_against_Aboriginal_Victorians,_suggests_practical_remedies Australia's truth commission finds genocide against Aboriginal Victorians, suggests practical remedies]&quot; (which was [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=delete&amp;user=&amp;page=Australia%27s+truth+commission+finds+genocide+against+Aboriginal+Victorians%2C+suggests+practical+remedies&amp;excludetempacct=1&amp;wpdate=&amp;tagfilter=&amp;wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist deleted] due to staleness), I asked ChatGPT very simple prompts such as &quot;Please assess that article&quot; and &quot;Is my article good?&quot;, and it gave me some rather useful advice (in retrospect, I admit that I should perhaps have disclosed it on the talk pages). Of course, it's a double-edged sword, and I discarded the recommendations which seemed very nitpicky or would run against P&amp;Gs such as [[WN:NPOV|NPOV]]. I think a responsible (if imperfect) approach would be to give a hard &quot;Not Ready&quot; verdict on articles that look entirely AI-generated from the beginning to the end, grant a bit of leeway for those where only a specific section or paragraph is AI-generated, add one or more sections at [[Help:AI]] for guidance on rewriting these sorts of articles, and direct contributors to both that help page and [[WN:The use of AI in generating content]]. [[User:Redireditor|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6C2E92&quot;&gt;Redir&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Redireditor|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#1245BC&quot;&gt;editor&lt;/span&gt;]] ('''[[User talk:Redireditor|talk]]''') 01:36, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
{{comment}} In light of a recent [[User talk:Michael.C.Wright#c-Gryllida-20260224194500-BigKrow-20260224180300|suggestion to use AI tools to evaluate or fact-check AI-generated material]], and a [[Talk:Moreton Bay illegally evicted homeless campers, Queensland Supreme Court rules#AI usage declaration|recent declaration of AI use in generating a published article]], it would be helpful to clarify the scope of this proposal.

If the use of AI in some capacity is considered acceptable by the original poster, then the concern being addressed here may be narrower than originally framed. If that is the case, should the proposal be revised or withdrawn so the discussion reflects that distinction more clearly? [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 02:36, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:I agree that clarification is needed. AI can be used for many things while writing an article without actually creating the wikinews-authored article text itself. [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 15:28, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

=== Consensus assessment and possible next steps ===
My read of the consensus to this point is:

* Support: 3
* Oppose: 2
* Support Retracted: 1
* No stated position: 3

Support remains conditional and temporary in framing, not a blanket permanent ban.

With only one-vote separation and multiple participants explicitly calling for further discussion, this still does not meet a strong consensus threshold.

The thread shows more agreement on process deficiencies (review standards, workload) than on prohibition itself.

Based on that, and keeping in mind that consensus is not determined by simple vote totals but by working toward a solution that reasonably addresses the main concerns raised on all sides, I suggest the following be considered for further community discussion:

* Transition [[WN:AI]] from a draft guideline into a proposed policy, so its requirements and enforcement expectations are clearer.
* We carefully monitor AI usage to ensure it is 1. transparent, 2. accurate, 3. NPOV. See [[:Category:AI usage declared]] as just one tool towards this end.
* For a limited trial period (for example, three months), apply a standardized disclosure notice on newly published articles that involve AI assistance. (&lt;del&gt;someone else&lt;/del&gt; &lt;ins&gt;[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]]&lt;/ins&gt; proposed this elsewhere[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Water_cooler/proposals/archives/2025/November#Thinking_-_asking_-_wondering]). See [[:Template:AI disclosure]] as a proposed draft.
* Reassess outcomes after the trial period to determine whether current practices are improving article quality and review reliability.

Comments welcome on whether this approach reasonably addresses the concerns raised so far.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:05, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:Agreed. Works for me. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:26, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: I have tweaked [[WN:AI]] to reflect that it is a proposed policy rather than a proposed guideline.
: If we are considering a reader-facing disclaimer placed directly on articles, as I understand [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals/archives/2025/November#c-Bddpaux-20251104213100-Thinking_-asking-_wondering|this suggestion]], I think it should first have clear and explicit consensus.
: Please comment below indicating {{tl|support}} or {{tl|oppose}} for '''using [[Template:AI disclosure]] directly on articles for a three-month trial period'''. You may also provide specific suggestions regarding the reader-facing template. If opposing, please include a brief rationale.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
::I did not understand what change is proposed. I am already following that linked guideline and the software is already prompting to declare AI usage at submission. What would &quot;support&quot; change here? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:07, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
: An interesting read at Slashdot, that may be informative to this discussion: [https://news.slashdot.org/story/26/04/05/2119210/will-ai-assisted-journalists-bring-errors-and-retractions Will 'AI-Assisted' Journalists Bring Errors and Retractions?]. Original article is [https://www.msn.com/en-us/technology/artificial-intelligence/an-ai-upheaval-is-coming-for-media-this-journalist-is-already-all-in/ar-AA1ZuM7j here].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 11:00, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

== RfC from reviewers: verifiability policy ==

{{flag}}

The current verifiability policy states &quot;''The reviewer should check that all information in the article is fully sourced''&quot;. In a discussion above, [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] noted that this requires checking each piece in the published article to the letter. 

So for example the way I understood it from above discussion, publishing an article with note 'A bus crashed, it carried 45 customers.' with a lot of other newsy information such as 5Ws, H, a driver was drunk, driver survived with one leg injury, etc other details, would require reviewer checking everything; according to this interpretation, just checking everything else while ignoring that piece of detail about '45' (and hence risking it will be published with incorrect number) would be against the current policy. This is purposefully a bit exaggerated example to get my point across. From time to time Michael.C.Wright picked up some more serious issues in my reviews, for example one article I didn't run in copyvio check, and then he went and put a dozen of issues which weren't adequately verified or attributed or some other thing, that I am yet to look at when I am slightly less busy hopefully towards the end of this week, and proposed a retraction. That retraction discussion link is located in first sentence of the above proposal to ban AI usage at ''Wikinews''.

I don't believe this is realistic to expect a reviewer to check 100% of the content in an article unless someone is hired to do such extensive reviews and another user is hired to implement the requested changes quickly (a total of 2 users hired). I believe that requiring full review will delay reviews as they are simply more time consuming for the reviewer; and this will also delay publishing because a long list of issues will be presented to an author, and an author will take longer to address them. I proposed earlier, for example, that only the 5W and H, and plagiarism, should be checked, and potentially NPOV next on the list, but I expect that checking article to the last letter of each sentence is not required. For example being satisfied that around 70% of the article was confirmed in the sources could be sufficient to publish it.

I am seeking comment from each reviewer about this. Please type it into below if you do not mind. Thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

=== Comments from reviewers ===
This section is just for reviewers to say how they are doing reviews or how they think they should be done, whether they should be '100% verification coverage', etc. When posting this I wanted it just to see what each reviewer is doing currently about this. It is not intended for discussion just to see the current status. Then, further down the page, this section is then followed by another section for discussion. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

* Space for @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Bawolff|Bawolff]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Chaetodipus|Chaetodipus]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Cromium|Cromium]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
** As noted above, I would be satisfied if 5W and H was verified and ''majority'' of the article, not necessarily 100% of the article. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:LivelyRatification|LivelyRatification]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:RockerballAustralia|RockerballAustralia]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:SVTCobra|SVTCobra]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:ShakataGaNai|ShakataGaNai]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Tom Morris|Tom Morris]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:Tyrol5|Tyrol5]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
* Space for @[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] comment (click 'reply' next to my nick and add your answer below) Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

=== General discussion ===
General discussion. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:34, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

:[[User:Asked42|Asked42]], not sure you are the best to do this but maybe you know someone who does: need to contact each reviewer off wiki asking to comment here and to advise when available for audio call as i think that is the only way to reconnect reviewers, by having a call at least once each three months. I scream in pain as this software does not have a calendar nor a doodle built into it and I am lost. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 15:42, 16 January 2026 (UTC)
::Noting I tried EmailUser and had no response. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 15:43, 16 January 2026 (UTC)

=== General discussion point 2: recent change ===
:''For a related discussion, see [[Wikinews:Water cooler/assistance#Clarification about post publish and post archive edits|Clarification about post publish and post archive edits]]''

*{{comment}} I feel that what  [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] is doing, by cross checking the work of other reviewers at time of archival (or insert some other 'eternity later' description here), and by flagging all possible issues that were missed as part of review, undermines two types of relationships: author to reviewer, and reviewer to reviewer. While both of these could be blamed on the reviewer who approved the story that was later scrutinized, I do not find this approach particularly fruitful for the quality of news output nor for the integrity of the project as a whole. I am seeking comment from everyone about this matter. In my opinion lowering the tolerance to omissions, as long as it does not land into plagiarism or substantial bias territory, was previously allowed and the level of cross check in the last year has unnecessarily -- and without a consultation -- increased, putting unnecessary burden on involved authors and other reviewers. I request that this workflow comes back to what it was previously. Thanks for your attention to this sentiment, and I hope to see your comments about it soon. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 04:00, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
*:cc @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]], please reply now and tag 3 other users who weren't tagged previously, thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 04:01, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
*::There's quite a bit here and I'm not sure which three other users would even see this conversation who weren't already pinged. I can see some value in checking articles at the time of archiving to see if the process was followed optimally and maybe tagging the talk page somehow. This is more-or-less equivalent to how some proper news organizations operate, where they review their own published works and issue retractions, make corrections, etc. (it was only two days ago that I saw my feed for ''Mother Jones'' retract a story that they couldn't verify). So I agree in principle that it's worth us having an author-to-reviewer relationship that works at the time of publication and then if someone is motivated, an archiver-to-reviewer relationship. What that looks like may be an open question. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 08:59, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
*:::Hey @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] My question is whether you have noticed review standards got tougher than usual in the last year? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 16:28, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
*::::Good question, but that is not something that I have personally experienced. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:27, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
*:::::Thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 09:54, 10 February 2026 (UTC)
*:::::Would you say there has been more discussions about review quality recently, than before? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 09:55, 10 February 2026 (UTC)

== News schedule ==

Hello

context

* some radio have news highlight every day from 8am to 815am, and
* some youtubers have $whatever new upload every week on Tuesday at noon local time. For example.

As a result, Fans sweat sitting on top of their fingers in ancipation of the release on that schedule. 

proposal.

* Could it perhaps be helpful to identify platform and format and method, to get this done here? 
** Weekly, say one entry on blyesky with list of recent news over last week; and one entry via audio podcast i.e. youtube or audible or whatever has audio outputs?

Thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 11:16, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:pinging @[[User:NikosLikomitros|NikosLikomitros]] @[[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] @[[User:Sj|Sj]] @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] @[[User:Sbb1413|Sbb1413]] @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] @[[User:Wikiwide|Wikiwide]] @[[User:RockerballAustralia|RockerballAustralia]] @[[User:Matthiasb|Matthiasb]] @[[User:Vyacheslav84|Vyacheslav84]] @[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] to name a few, as this output could include news from other languages. cc @[[User:Revi C.|Revi C.]], @[[User:Base|Base]] Hoping to hear your input and aim for first date of a first initial post on Feb-01 or thereabouts. Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 01:45, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::I didn't understand what exactly is being proposed? --[[User:Vyacheslav84|Vyacheslav84]] ([[User talk:Vyacheslav84|talk]]) 03:19, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::* {{comment}} Not totally following the proposal/question, but I will say this: If an event happens '''and that event is newsworthy''' there should be some type of jetsam present that verifies it actually DID happen. Historically, an accredited reporter's notes are valid. e.g. &quot;I watched this program/podcast/live stream on this date at this time and this thing happened then that thing happened' etc. etc. But, again, the EVENT must be newsworthy AND have solid sourcing. Because someone with the YouTube channel '''CoolDude47''' said a thing happened at his neighbor's house, that SOURCE may not be dense enough to be trustworthy. Know what I mean?--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:24, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::*If I understand Gryllida's proposal correctly, it is that we could (a) post a weekly news roundup to Bluesky or a similar site and/or (b) post a weekly audio news roundup/&quot;best of Wikinews&quot; to YouTube or a similar website. At this stage, though, I don't think we are in a good position to do either of those. I'm concerned that casual readers/listeners might not realize that Wikinews's topic selection is constrained by what our contributors take the time to write as well as what our reviewers take the time to review. We're averaging much less than one new published article per day at this point, resulting in a collection of articles that could be politely described at best as &quot;eclectic&quot;. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 06:08, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::*:Correct; there's always a chance to add one short disclaimer at the beginning of the text or audio piece noting that &quot;&lt;name of the nickname for the Wikinews broadcast&gt; is in beta and audience can add their news by going &lt;here&gt;&quot; where &lt;here&gt; is a user friendly place to start. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 19:51, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Hi @[[User:Vyacheslav84|Vyacheslav84]] 
:::* I guess you are not familiar with the services similar to the ones i described in 'context' then. here is a wiki page about them: [[:w:PBS News Hour]]. basically they air themselves every evening at same time.
:::* I am proposing Wikinews produces at least one text output and at least one audio output regularly, for example, weekly, and posts them '''at the same time of day''' on a certain day of week consistently.
:::Hope this helps. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 19:48, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::I agree, but who will do it? --[[User:Vyacheslav84|Vyacheslav84]] ([[User talk:Vyacheslav84|talk]]) 14:43, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Vyacheslav84|Vyacheslav84]] one person can not do all news media so i suggest to have one person per one or two social media accounts. I created page [[Wikinews:Social media posters]] you can add your name there and name of a social media where you are going to post and under what nick. Important not to have 'Wikinews' in the account name there as this is a trademark and requires permissions from WMF. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 23:49, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] Okay, thanks, I'll take a look! --[[User:Vyacheslav84|Vyacheslav84]] ([[User talk:Vyacheslav84|talk]]) 11:16, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
::{{comment}} I mean -- it ''sounds cool'', but: '''getting it done.....'''. Know what I mean?--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:13, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Hi [[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] please see [[Wikinews:Social media posters]], if you have a friend with social media addiction, please point them to the page, thanks! [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:18, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::{{comment}} It's been 14 days since we had a new article published. If our text and audio outputs were based on our new content over the past week (and they should be if we were to undertake those projects), that would mean we would have had to skip two weeks. With the risk that the Wikimedia Foundation might shut down Wikinews altogether, I think we need to focus on our primary mission of publishing news stories on this website rather than trying to take on projects in new formats. Keep in mind that reviewers/administrators would presumably have to take the time to review the text and audio outputs before they are released, and there aren't enough of them to even have the time to review all the articles that get submitted now. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 07:52, 5 February 2026 (UTC)
:::14 days??? Why. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 07:12, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
:::🫩 [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 07:13, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
:Concerns over the inability to regularly put out updates like this are well-founded, but I don't think a monthly update would be too much to ask for, and I believe it would put a sense of relevance back into WN. As said by others, the articles we currently publish are mainly based on contributors' interests and availability, which isn't always the most attractive to a general audience. Even 1-sentence updates or a collection of quotes from media would be better than nothing; there's so much going on in the world right now that there's always something readers urgently need to know, and I see it as a foundational step for building, maintaining and retaining an active readership. I would gladly take up this task, but of course it would be better if reviewer(s) are responsible so that the reviewing process can be skipped/streamlined. Not sure about the audio part, unless software/AI is used to turn a transcript into audio. I personally watch ''{{w|Last Week Tonight with John Oliver}}'' and ''{{w|Weekend Update}}'', so I believe in the attractiveness of such updates. [[User:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Montserrat;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#EE1C25,#BA8E23);color:transparent;background-clip:text&quot;&gt;HKLionel&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#EE1C25;font-size:60%&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:10, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:HKLionel|HKLionel]]
::* I think submissions sized 100-150 words are the easiest to review, even if they do not possess much coverage value. That's the easiest way to get through the reviewing process. NOT MORE because it is pain to review. And not less because that is too short for pass.
::* There are three high quality submissions in queue. Each of them would take me a week to 'fully review'. Presumably, if I attempt one of them tonight, that will be an express review...
::Regards, - [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 04:59, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Yes, so I suppose a coordinated effort by reviewers/making it the responsibility of a reviewer would make it more efficient. [[User:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Montserrat;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#EE1C25,#BA8E23);color:transparent;background-clip:text&quot;&gt;HKLionel&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#EE1C25;font-size:60%&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]] 16:23, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:I just had the thought that we could borrow from Wikipedia's [[w:WP:ITN|in the news]] and [[w:P:C|current events portal]]. [[User:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Montserrat;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#EE1C25,#BA8E23);color:transparent;background-clip:text&quot;&gt;HKLionel&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#EE1C25;font-size:60%&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]] 18:12, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::Borrow what? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:35, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Content for, as I suggested above, a monthly update. [[User:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Montserrat;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#EE1C25,#BA8E23);color:transparent;background-clip:text&quot;&gt;HKLionel&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#EE1C25;font-size:60%&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:28, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
::I also discovered [[:ja:ウィキニュース:短信]] (news bulletins). This is a format I'd like to see emulated. [[User:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Montserrat;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#EE1C25,#BA8E23);color:transparent;background-clip:text&quot;&gt;HKLionel&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#EE1C25;font-size:60%&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:39, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

== Streak themed competition proposal ==

Propose to encourage a user to author and publish, or reviewer to review and publish, at least one story every two weeks. Like a [[:w:streak]].

At end of a competition period, suggest for 6 months (12 fortnights), the no. of maximum consecutive fortnights would be computed for each participant. For example, if I started and was major contributor to article on week 1, 3, 7, 9, 11, then my streaks are '1 and 3' (streak of 2), then '7 and 9 and 11' (streak of 3), I would score '3'.

Top 10 participant would get a T-shirt or mug or some other object with a number (i.e. 'This user archived a 6 fortnight streak in English Wikinews in 2026' worded fancily and with fancy picture.) delivered to their desired postal address.

Not sure how to fund this, but I think there may be a few people who want to donate to that purpose. if you wanted to donate please specify payment method. cc [[User:Pharos|Pharos]] as I think you might be able to get support from NYC for this perhaps. 

thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 07:02, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
:created page [[Wikinews:2026 streak competition]] thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:12, 21 February 2026 (UTC)
::I think I could attempt this. [[User:CheatCodes4ever|Cheat]][[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|Codes]][[Special:Contributions/CheatCodes4ever|4ever]] ([[User:CheatCodes4ever/sandbox|sandbox]] | [[m:Special:CentralAuth/CheatCodes4ever|CentralAuth]]) 20:41, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Hi @[[User:CheatCodes4ever|CheatCodes4ever]] thank you, nice. 🙂 Is 'every 2 weeks' a good time frame? Or better 1 or 4 weeks? Whre do you think it could be funded from? Also, how long to run it for: 12 weeks or 24 weeks? Regards, [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 20:59, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:CheatCodes4ever|CheatCodes4ever]] please add your name on that section [[Wikinews:2026_streak_competition#Interested_users|section 'interested users signup']] Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 23:25, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Gryllida}} Two weeks sounds reasonable to me. [[User:CheatCodes4ever|Cheat]][[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|Codes]][[Special:Contributions/CheatCodes4ever|4ever]] ([[User:CheatCodes4ever/sandbox|sandbox]] | [[m:Special:CentralAuth/CheatCodes4ever|CentralAuth]]) 20:36, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::great thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 20:42, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
:The prizes would probably need to be worked out later, but this is a great idea and I'm interested. [[User:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Montserrat;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#EE1C25,#BA8E23);color:transparent;background-clip:text&quot;&gt;HKLionel&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#EE1C25;font-size:60%&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:47, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

== Install inline comments ==

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:InlineComments

Could this be installed here? It would be easuer to use than the current system, where highlight is a pain to delete on visual editor, and comment is hidden on talk tab. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 10:11, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

:I find it unlikely that devs will add it, considering the status of Wikinews. I support you making a ticket at [[:phab:]] if you feel like it's warranted. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:23, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
::That would require consensus from the community. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|talk]]) 20:32, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
:::thatas what i am asking about. would you support installation of such an extension here? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 20:43, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Which is why I was trying to provide my vote of approval. I did make that unclear, so I apologize: while I don't know that this will be successfully implemented, I am in favor of you requesting it &lt;em&gt;pending others weighing in and a general consensus that others feel the same way&lt;/em&gt;. Again, sorry for suggesting that individuals unilaterally request new features. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 21:39, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
::::yeah i got it [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 22:03, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
::lets see if using [[:w:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation#inline_comments|enwp lever]] works. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 20:34, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
:::They [[:w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Proposal_to_install_the_'Inline_comments'_MediaWiki_extension_for_Draft_namespace|are being quite positive, including PHP maintainership]], and suggest development of a gadget as prototype. Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:59, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
:Same as Justin, though the WP discussions don't seem promising. [[User:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Montserrat;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#EE1C25,#BA8E23);color:transparent;background-clip:text&quot;&gt;HKLionel&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:HKLionel|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#EE1C25;font-size:60%&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:53, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
:Just to mention, it is not exactly like inline comments, but EzPR 2025 will include a feature called &quot;Dynamic Marking&quot; under the Sentence Marking section. When enabled, it will use a global gadget to load and display specific sentences that have been highlighted and marked by the reviewer on the article.
:This is not fully implemented yet, the global script integration still needs to be completed. However, the idea is to provide a more dynamic approach to sentence-specific highlights and unsourced sentence marking.The data for each marked sentence, including its associated issue, will be stored on a JSON page. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:21, 28 February 2026 (UTC)
::Hi [[User:Asked42|Asked42]]
::* I believe the dynamically marked comments, as currently implemented in EZPR2, have two disadvantages compared with the extension. First, they can be difficult to remove when working in the visual editor. Second, the extension provides a more user-friendly interface for replying to comments about a specific phrase in the article without having to switch to the talk page and back.
::* That said, one possible improvement to the extension would be to post a copy of the inline comment discussion to the article’s talk page when the comment is removed. This could be offered as an optional feature in the extension. At present, the discussion remains only in the article’s edit history, which may not be ideal, as the talk page is generally expected to serve as the central record of discussions about previous revisions of the article.
::Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:53, 28 February 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: I was not aware that there was interest in developing the extension as a gadget, which is, in my opinion, a much more practical and better approach. When the gadget is ready, I think we could also integrate it with EzPR 2025 to allow marking and commenting on specific text within an article. Therefore, I am dropping the Dynamic Marking approach within EzPR.
:::Just to clarify regarding your comment: &quot;''First, they can be difficult to remove when working in the visual editor.''&quot; - I believe you may be referring to the current approach of wrapping text with templates. Dynamic Marking '''was not''' designed in that way; it was intended to function more like inline comments. Additionally, EN wikinews currently does not have the VisualEditor enabled. So even if that concern were valid, the current approach would not cause issues in this specific context. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 05:56, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Actually, in Wikipedia there is a dying backlog queue of drafts for review, to create a new page in Wikipedia, users may often have to wait 2-6 months while page is sitting in Draft: namespace. So, I wanted to suggest the gadget separate, then it can be added to ENWP for draft review. For this space here in Wikinews, having the gadget installed there at ENWP could be a part of leverage to get the extension installed in Wikimedia wikis, including here, eventually. Knowing how ENWP centric the ecosystem is. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 07:33, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Btw, inline comment doesn't show which phrase it was referring to, and neither does an inline citation. Only one cursor position. And inline comments were such a pain to edit in VE... For once they are not even visible until clicked or something. :( [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 07:34, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

== Should we reconsider our stance on wikilinking ==

Our [[Wikinews:Style_guide#Wikilinking_an_article|Style guide states]] &quot;Do not over-wikify articles. Link only particularly relevant background material.&quot;

I believe the reasoning can be found in [[Wikinews:Categories#Wikilinks_and_redirects|this essay]], which states &quot;Don't use wikilinks for basic information: a news article should stand on its own, understandable without consulting some other page along the way.&quot;

As a community, I believe we have strayed from this practice considerably. A drift towards more wikilinking, in my opinion, is part of our broader drift from being a journalism project first to a wiki project first and a journalism project second. 

While over-wikilinking has not been an impediment to publication (that I'm aware of), it is something we should either be actively addressing (reducing) or something we should remove from our policies and guidelines. 

Please comment below how you feel about over-wikilinking and if you feel we should keep,  remove, or update the recommendation. Justifying your response would be most helpful, but a simple !vote might suffice.  [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:27, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

Some useful polling templates might be:

*{{remove}} {{tl|remove}}
*{{keep}} {{tl|keep}}
*{{weak delete}} {{tl|weak delete}}
*{{weak keep}} {{tl|weak keep}}

=== Comments ===

* {{keep}} especially for the lede. A link away from ''Wikinews'' is an invitation to stop reading our content and start reading someone else's. I also agree that the quality of our articles should be high enough that readers can fully understand the topic without going elsewhere for additional information.
[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:27, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
*{{weak keep}} I am unsure if I have a passionate opinion here, but I will agree that the wikilinking has gotten a bit out of control. In the very least: most of our wikilinking should simply point to a new place at WN. This isn't Wikipedia. And: I '''2000% agree''' that we've lost our 'scope' of journalism first, wiki second. That is not even mentioning the 3,000 people involved with WMF that can only view us as a wiki ONLY. That has been a never ending war. Even some of us here: Admins etc. etc. -- we (including myself) sometimes get lost in the weeds on what is happening at this place: get the news, write the news, submit the news.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:32, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
*:Just commenting what I see in this...
*:* Obvious words like &quot;cat&quot; or &quot;dog&quot; are not supposed to be wikilinked. Not to point of wikilinking every second word in a page.
*:* More complex names (for me it includes name of ''any'' US state, for instance, i never knew where they are and am not going to try to build a US map in my head, and many readers are overseas) that are not understood by foreigner or by someone new to that topic, could and should be wikilinked.
*:* Adding a brief note to a thing is good. At some point I added a note like &quot;, a state in east coast of United States,&quot; for something, for that reason.
*:* Sport articles, for example, suffer a lot from lack of explanations. :S
*:* Also this approach gave advantage that items that ''are'' wikilinked do, eventually in an utopic world when news writing is an everyday thing, become wikilinks to local categories about that event series or place or topic in ''news'' context, with a feed for that. For example there is no category &quot;Dog&quot;. Or [[court]]. Or something.
*:* If I removed a wikilink, I should probably feel compelled to either add a brief note or add a local news-feed (category) link.
*:* A reviewer can do such minor chanhe if needed.
*:* And I personally do not see any reason to change that policy in its current version.
*:[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:00, 28 February 2026 (UTC)
*{{weak delete}} Admittedly, having too many wikilinks looks bad. But we should not discourage Wikinews writers from including ''useful'' links to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is our sister project, not a competitor. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 05:31, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

*'''comment''' - There are two quotes that were mentioned, the style guide, which says &quot;''&quot;Do not over-wikify articles. Link only particularly relevant background material.&quot;''&quot;, and an under construction essay called &quot;'''Categories'''&quot;, abandoned in 2021, which for reasons I can't quite figure out mentions wikilinks. When being asked &quot;''Please comment below how you feel about over-wikilinking and if you feel we should keep, remove, or update the recommendation.''&quot;, it's not entirely clear what &quot;the recommendation&quot; is. Maybe I seem like I'm being obtuse but I'm having trouble interpreting all the !votes and figuring out where I stand on an issue presented as a simply yes/no question but that lacks the needed clarity. If just a comment is being sought, I can provide that of course. [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 03:47, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

== Software suggestion to notify all users eligible to vote ==

For requests regarding permission, removal of permission, or accreditation, I suggest developing a tool that notifies all eligible users and includes a link where they can provide comments, ask questions, and cast their vote; and with a note how they can opt out of receiving such messages (if desired). I believe similar tools have been used on other wikis, such as Commons or Meta. Since this wiki is relatively small and some recent requests have received very few votes for an extended period, such a tool could help increase participation and prevent discussions from remaining open indefinitely. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:40, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

== Suggestion for [[Wikinews:Writing an article]] ==

At [[Wikinews:Writing an article#Starting out]], it says:

:If the story has not been started, you can begin it by entering an appropriate title below and clicking &quot;Create article&quot;.
:Here are ''Wikinews'' [[Wikinews:Style guide#Headlines|article title rules and guidelines]].

I suggest that we add something like this to the above: &quot;The article title should '''identify the news event''' that the article is about. A person's name alone, or a company name alone, should not be an article title.&quot; 

I am assuming that some people are indeed creating articles by starting from [[Wikinews:Writing an article]] but not reading the linked article title rules and guidelines (this assumption might be incorrect). That seems to be how we get such soon-to-be-deleted drafts as [[Rumi Von-Clarke]], [[Daud Muhammed]], and [[Zakariah gmb services]], all of which were tagged for speedy deletion on their second edits. -- [[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 14:13, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

:I support this. That seems like a reasonable assumption. This might pull in a few contributors who get discouraged at first. I don't really follow them; what is the typical path a new editor who creates one of those articles takes? Do they stop editing? Silently? [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 14:39, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
::I'm cool with that. I just hope new reporters read it. The '''event''' is the thing.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 14:52, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
:Works for me. This could be a draft title, and when the user is ready to submit it for review, they can choose a better, more representative title if it is not already set. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 14:57, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

== The future ==

I'll try to be quick here: We are a small village. There is a kind of poison that works its way in here at times -- people can (and do) begin treating this place as a general wiki, after they've been here for about 6 months.
&lt;br&gt;I am writing these words as encouragement, not to scold -- please note that. I am going to (for the remainder of 2026) focus very much on Reviewing and encouraging new reporters. This is a news site. We have policies and guidelines. I will try very hard to adhere to those -- and I ask all other people here to focus on that very thing. Good things ahead. [[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 15:19, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

== New tool for inline comments: DynamicMarking. ==

Hello, a new tool is now available that enables reviewers to attach inline comments to specific phrases in a draft article. This means phrases can be marked by a reviewer to highlight issues without actually editing the article.

Phrases that have been marked will appear highlighted in yellow. Non-reviewers can view them, but they will not be able to edit or remove the attached comments or markings. However, users can mark a specific highlight as &quot;resolved&quot;.

This gadget allows users to quickly identify the exact text in an article that needs modification or changes. Reviewers using the EzPR2025 gadget for review will find the &quot;Dynamic Marking&quot; feature integrated into it. However, the tool can also be used independently of EzPR2025.

Full documentation is available at: [[Wikinews:Easy Peer Review (2025 version)/DynamicMarking|WN:EzPR2025/Dynamic Marking]]. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 08:07, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

== Review que ==

there are currently nibe articles in review que going stale. I cannot review ''any'' of them because I either wrote them or they're original research. Can someone please get going on a review? This site must publish one article per day to remain a viable destination. Also, I am not going to be able to volunteer any more time writing articles here if everything I wrote this week goes stale for no good reason. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 10:41, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: For me, the deeper issue is a difference in what level of quality we are trying to achieve. Our Policies and Guidelines were written by a generation aiming for a much higher standard than what the current generation, broadly speaking, appears willing or able to sustain. The way we are collectively navigating that gap is creating friction (to put it politely) and, in practice, a status quo of low output.
: We need to resolve that tension. Either we reform our PaGs to reflect a more achievable standard, or we raise the quality of our work to meet them.
: Given the ongoing friction, I find myself looking for other ways to contribute here, if at all. I know at least one other reviewer has expressed a similar view.
: I believe this quality–output tension is a central factor behind the SPTF’s recommendation to close Wikinews. I understand the logic behind that recommendation: we have not yet demonstrated that a citizen journalism model can reliably and consistently sustain high output, high quality, and a meaningful wiki process all at the same time.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
::If there is a problem regarding the quality of my contributions to this project, then nobody has said anything about that to me whatsoever. I submit my articles in the best shape possible and I still feel like I have to make a scene just to get someone to even look at my submissions. This is starting to look like what I assumed was going to happen if I started reviewing -- me being expected to pick up the entire review workload -- because literally nothing will get published orherwise -- while my own submissions are just forgotten and left to rot in the review que, and hours of my personal time are just wasted. I believe this project has potential but I dont know how to proceed if nothing else is being done to fix the problem that multiple users have been bitching about for months'''. This project will be shut down if the status quo continues. ''' [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 23:41, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
::: There was no specific target in my earlier comment. I was speaking more generally about what feels like a broader tension on the project.
::: To clarify: it seems we may not all be applying the same review standard in practice. I’m not referring to you or anyone else ''specifically''. There appears to be some preference, broadly speaking, for getting articles published once they are “good enough,” even if not every statement has been explicitly checked against a source or clearly attributed, with the expectation that the wiki process can refine things later.
::: On the other hand, our existing policies and guidelines lean toward a stricter approach, where each statement is expected to be supported or removed before publication. That gap — between what the standards say and what is realistically being applied — is where I see a lot of the friction coming from.
::: I may be misreading that, but that’s the issue I was trying to point to.
::: On the concern about you being expected to carry the review workload, I’m not sure the recent activity reflects that. Publishing has been shared among a small group of reviewers, and you’ve been a significant part of that (thank you!), but not the sole contributor.[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=review&amp;user=&amp;page=&amp;excludetempacct=1&amp;wpdate=&amp;tagfilter=&amp;wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&amp;wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist][[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
::::I understand enforcing the rigorous policies for quality control, I just feel there have been too many times where a reviewer has requested revisions after an article I authored has been submitted, the requested changes are promptly made, but the reviewer just goes radio silent immediately afterward and the articles just goes stale waiting for review. It's hard to really feel motivated to make revisions to or gatwick articles I write because they have mostly just been getting left to rot these past few months. I'm not sure the community understands how much human labor power is actually just being wasted due to this failed process. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 01:58, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::i published one, others to follow during the week if i manage [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 13:03, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::it was noted elsewhere that 'a few' reviewers are required for the site to work. like i woukd say around 2-3 is a bare minimum 💀 when only 1 or 2, then, very hard to get things moving. I will also try to write one during the week for you to review! [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 13:05, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::thanks! [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 13:11, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
:hi @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] what is the issue with reviewing OR? Do you have scoop access? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 13:03, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
::I dont know how to verify sources with original research. How am I supposed to review an event or interview I did not attend? [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 13:08, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
:::you can cross check it against reporters notes. They are shared privately with scoop, an address that accredited reporters and reviewers can read. If you do not have a wn-reporters account, please email me with your desired username, and i will email you the login instructions. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 14:32, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
::::If it helps any, I have two stories currently waiting that are OR. [[Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City]] requires scoop access but I tried deliberately to make [[The Performance Space in New York City holds its annual gala honoring three artists]] verifiable using only the pictures I provided in the article and a few of the pre-event sources. This is even easier now, as since I wrote the material (immediately after it happened), some genuine sources have come out which also corroborate my OR (which I added).. So that one shouldn't be too difficult. I also made it deliberately short so we could publish it fast... [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 20:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Are we able to publish OR ten days after the focal point event? [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 20:45, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Generally, yes.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:31, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::How long do we have? [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 01:40, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::: Unfortunately, this is one of the many areas where there is no hard-and-fast rule. [[WN:Fresh]] merely states:
:::::::: &lt;blockquote&gt;Exclusive content has the potential to extend our freshness horizon by days or even weeks, depending on the nature of the original material. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
:::::::: Somewhere there is a relatively recent discussion that involved MeDaWikipedian I believe, in which some consensus formed around eight weeks as a max limit. I'll find it but it might take some time.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:50, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::: Not much of a consensus for 8 weeks, but it may still be useful to cite as recent precedent when defending publication of material up to that age:  [[Wikinews:Water cooler/assistance/archives/2024/September#Photo exhibition “Ethnic features of the world people” took place in the Crimean capital]][[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 02:14, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::: If you'd like some advice on it, let me know what article you are talking about and what you're thinking as far as why it is still publishable. If you'd rather do it quietly, feel free to use wikimail or email.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 02:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal to auto-&quot;stale&quot; from review queue ==

If an article was submitted for review on day N, then on day N+8 could it automatically mark itself as stale? This could help clear out the queue from the old end. I picked number 8 because usually an article does not get published about events over seven days old; I may be deluded there so please adjust the number of days as needed.

Alternatively, the &quot;review&quot; template could change to &quot;abandoned&quot; after 7 days.

I am suggesting to get this decided and implemented some time soon. It would reduce the load on reviewers and sysops, in my opinion. Something similar was done for another template before, but I do not remember which.

-- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 08:59, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

== Improving review visibility and collaboration for draft articles ==

I propose increasing visibility and collaboration around drafts and their talk pages so more users can contribute to review and copyediting. That could help authors who aren’t keeping up with reviewer requests and would be more like a scientific journal process where at least two people check a page before publication. Since the software supports pre-reviews, we could encourage everyone to pre-review more broadly.

Proposed actions:

1. Add a friendly site notice inviting users to join a “newsroom” and review at least one article per day. Link to a Newsroom guide explaining categories:

Drafts = need pre-review, expand, submit for review

Queue = possibly ready; check carefully and flag issues

Disputed = issues found; fix and resubmit

That page like [[Wikinews:Newsroom]] but a mini-version: with only one paragraph intro linking to key policies; three lists (draft, review, disputed) one paragraph before each; one list (published in last three days) also one para explaining process of improving or cross checking those. That could be more user friendly for newbies than the current &quot;everything and a kitchen sink&quot; current version.

2. On submission, automatically leave the user a message with a request to pre-review at least two pages from the Newsroom, again linking to its over simplified version, perhaps even transcluding it to the user's talk page (via subst, so only then-current version is included in the message) as then they do not need to open the Newsroom link to see the topics being written about in the new drafts.

These steps should speed feedback to authors and surface more issues before publishing, and bring more hands to fix them. 

Hope this is helpful. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:10, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

3. At submission, present user a button &quot;pre-review my own article&quot; which is like pre-review process they do for article they just submitted.

2a. Example: [[User:Gryllida/MiniNewsroom]]

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:31, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

:4. Add button &quot;mark as stale&quot; to the develop template. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:32, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

== Online workshop for training new reviewers ==

Hello everyone, to help increase the number of active reviewers on English Wikinews and support interested contributors in understanding the review process, I would like to propose organizing a structured, documentation-based online workshop.
Given that live video sessions may not be feasible for many participants, this workshop would primarily be text-based and hosted on-wiki (with optional use of chat platforms for discussion). However, if any experienced reviewer is interested in contributing via a presentation or live session, that would certainly be welcome.

The workshop would be divided into 4-5 sections, each focusing on a specific aspect of the reviewing process. These may include:
* Introduction to the role and responsibilities of a reviewer
* Core review criteria (newsworthiness, neutrality, verifiability, freshness, copyvio)
* Source verification and common issues in articles
* The review workflow (from submission to publication)
* Post-publication review and maintenance

Each section would include short explanatory materials (text, slides, or diagrams), followed by practical tasks. These tasks could include answering questions, identifying issues in sample articles, or performing a simulated review.

Participants who complete the workshop should gain a clearer understanding of how reviewing works in practice. Rather than replacing the existing reviewer nomination process, the workshop could serve as a preparation pathway, helping participants build the skills and confidence needed before being nominated.
Additionally, participants who demonstrate strong understanding during the workshop could be encouraged or mentored further as potential reviewer candidates.

To keep the workshop effective, participation may be limited to a small group. We would likely need at least 2-3 experienced reviewers to help guide discussions, review responses, and provide feedback. I would be happy to help prepare materials such as slides, flowcharts, and example articles.

I would appreciate the community's thoughts on this idea: Would such a workshop be useful? Would any reviewers be interested in helping organize or mentor participants? Are there improvements or alternative approaches we should consider? Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 15:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

:*'''Support''' I would've started reviewing much sooner of there was something like this in place. Why there doesn't already exist something similar to this is beyond me.
:[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 16:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:* I can also assist in creating JS-based interactive quizzes, annotation projects, a peer review comment writing playground, and other interactive tools for the workshop, which I think will make it more engaging and fun. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 17:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:*:That seems good but is being hindered by needing to process [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard#Board_of_Trustees_Approves_Closure_of_Wikinews the hosting change]. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:35, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== The last Wikinews article ==

Since the site will be frozen after May 4, I would like to suggest that we plan to have the top headline on the last day be something along the lines of &quot;Wikinews closes after 21 years; community moves to Miraheze&quot; or something like that. If the top headline is going to be permanently in place after that, it ought to be something that commemorates the ending of Wikinews. I wouldn't want the headline that the site has to live with permanently to be something like &quot;Small town car accident results in nearly $200 in damage, no injuries&quot;.

Of course, this presumes that we can have an article commemorating the site's closure ready and approved on May 3, but it will also require the cooperation of reviewers not to put something else in the lead headline position at the last minute. -- [[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 14:13, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

:{{Support}}: I think this could be some type of original report. Even if a full article is not possible, I do think we should leave a message on the main page. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 14:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} I proposed the same elsewhere (after you did). —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:21, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:[[Wikinews closes after 21 years]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:24, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} But: it will a long time before I come back here. Not being ugly about it. Maybe Michael can publish it. I'm about to sign out.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 02:07, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{Neutral}} Don't care. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 02:24, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::Not sure if we 100% are moving to other host, though we should prep the article already, and post by May 3 -- should there be any changes, we do it before the project is RO (read-only).  If someone is up for writing it -- I shall be there to review it.  PS: please come to IRC, if you all can.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 09:37, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::: I think the article would greatly benefit from someone from the previous generation of contributors to write about how the modern review process came about, the various journalism schools/classes we worked with at the time, etc. That time was our peak in regards to readership and activity and is therefore the most consequential for us as a project. 
::: I know @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] has links to external sites which praised the work of en.WN during those periods. Those could/should be used as sources, quoted, etc. 
::: See: [[Wikinews closes after 21 years]][[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 06:48, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

==  Future stewardship of Wikinews ==

As per [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Public_consultation_about_Wikinews#c-Sj-20260401032800-Victoria-20260330090000 this comment] by @[[User:Sj|Sj]], Wikimedia NYC and task force members are discussing the possible stewardship of Wikinews by [[meta:Wikimedia New York City]]. Also ping: @[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 14:56, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== Proposal to cease publishing after around April 14 ==

Hello, as resources are required for migration, I am proposing to set a date after which articles will not be published. Maybe around mid-April. Then, a week later, clear the review queue and finish any maintenance tasks and walk away. Then this would leave around two weeks to setup a new site. Otherwise, I am concerned migration will be under-resourced. cc @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] who quite rightfully in my opinion wrote [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASupreme_Court_of_Finland_convicts_Christians_of_crimes_against_the_humanity_of_gays_and_lesbians_in_a_landmark_ruling&amp;diff=5003903&amp;oldid=5003259 that]. Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 08:06, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
*If there is time to get new articles published during the second half of April, I think it should be allowed. The migration may be a more important priority, but not all the admins will necessarily be involved with that nor will it necessarily take up all their time. We are still getting submissions, albeit not many good ones. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 17:23, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
* {{oppose}} I agree with [[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] above. We could continue developing and publishing articles that reflect what we aimed to achieve: accurate, neutral reporting, provided reviewers are willing to perform full and complete reviews. More psuedo-reviews would be [[Wikinews:Deletion requests#Supreme Court of Finland convicts individuals and institutions involved in writing and publishing pamphlet for inciting hatred against gays and lesbians|counterproductive]].
: That said, it is already April 13 and there have been no substantive updates on migration, use of the name or logo, or related decisions. If the community waits for those before preparing for read-only, there will likely not be enough time (or community will) to complete the work. For that reason, some of us have already started shutting the lights down. See the following discussions:
: 
:* [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#Administrative matters for the closure]]
:* [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]
:* [[#The last Wikinews article]]  (discussion above, article located [[Wikinews:Story preparation/Wikinews closes after 21 years|here]])
: 
: Currently I am prioritizing admin/maintenance/shut-down work but am also willing to do reviewer work if no other reviewers are willing. I am also prepared to review and publish the [[Wikinews:Story preparation/Wikinews closes after 21 years|last article]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:03, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' - I'm not sure what this would change in practice anyway. [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 02:50, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
::I stopped reviewing anyway, as I cannot allocate resources for the &quot;shut lights down&quot; activities AND for reviewing AND for migration. For any non-reviewing tasks, I am happy to help. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oc7jvjtc96yj3mvqb3z1o5mjqc39wdg</sha1>
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__TOC__

== Inline comment tool status check ==

Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]]

Please confirm whether you are working on an inline comments gadget. If not, I can write a basic version. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:29, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

:I was working on that. It can be used independently by a reviewer or together with EzPR2025. But then, I felt there was not much interest in it so I stopped. I will resume work and complete the script. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 11:26, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::👍 [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 15:51, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]], please let me know if the work on this is ongoing, and if I can be involved in coding or testing. If there is some other JS task that you would like me to do I would be happy to get started on it. Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:19, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I was a bit busy IRL for the past three days, so there hasn't been much progress since my last comment, although a little work has been done. Thank you for your interest in collaboratively developing/coding the scripts. But, I honestly don't have a very structured plan for developing them. I usually have a rough plan in my mind and in my notes, and then start developing. So I am not sure if there is any specific place where I can point to collaborate right now. I know that's not an ideal practice, but I am working on organizing my development process a bit more. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:11, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Hello, the inline comment gadget (named '''DynamicMarking''') is now available. Please try it out and test it. Detailed documentation is available at [[Wikinews:Easy Peer Review (2025 version)/DynamicMarking|WN:EzPR2025/Dynamic Marking]]. 
:::Here is a quick explanation of how to activate it and attach comments:
:::# Go to any article that is not published.
:::# If you are using Windows, press &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; together. (On macOS, press &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::# Dynamic Marking mode will be activated. Select any text in the article, and an icon ([[File:Codex icon highlight.svg|18px]]) will appear next to the selected text. Click the icon.
:::# A popover box will open. Enter your comment and click '''Save'''. That's all.
:::# Don't forget to deactivate Dynamic Marking mode by pressing &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; again. (On macOS, &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::-- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 07:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

== The lead articles need to be changed ==

The last '''four''' articles published are not featured on the front page:
*[[US president Donald Trump demands the unconditional surrender of Iran]]
*[[NSW government proposes rezoning to create residences midway between Sydney and Parramatta]]
*[[PM of Australia sends E-7A Wedgetail and air-to-air missiles to UAE]]
*[[Former Major League Baseball pitcher Julio Teherán retires]]
This problem is getting worse than it was a few days ago. If there is a tool such as Lead Manager that solves this problem, it needs to be required. Any tools for changing the front page headlines that don't deal with this problem correctly should be deleted so that whoever does this sort of thing will have to use the correct tool. ----[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:11, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
: Thank you for keeping an eye on it. I’ve updated the five leads.
: This likely reflects the current mix of reviewers rather than a tooling issue. We have one brand-new reviewer and another returning after a long break, during which a few tools—such as Lead Manager—were added. It’s easy to overlook the final publish step after reviewing, and once the five leads fall out of order it takes a little work to sort them again.
: For now it probably just means keeping an eye on it and helping everyone get comfortable with the newer tools and processes.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:29, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

The problem happened again with [[Two students die when boats capsize in Japan]] not being featured. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:58, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

:Does @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] know how to do the changes? @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 14:28, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::I tried to do it but I f***ed something up and the f***up was on the Main Page, so I had to self-revert. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 16:21, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: &lt;del&gt;What tool are you using to update the leads? Or are you updating them manually?&lt;/del&gt;
::: I see you're using MakeLead, which is the old version and not as intuitive as the new one; [[User:Asked42/LeadManager.js]]. I recommend you install LeadManager, it is much easier to use and automatically performs the full shuffle of lead 1→2, 2→3, 3→4, etc.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:43, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] has [[User talk:Lofi Gurl#c-Asked42-20260313163800-Lofi_Gurl-20260313153700|offered to install it for you]] if you'd prefer.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::yes I would like that. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 18:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]]: Done. To use it, visit [[User:Asked42/LeadManager#Lead Manager Form]] and follow these steps:
:::::# You will see a form. In the '''Title''' field, select the article that you just published.
:::::# Click the '''Fetch automatically''' button.
:::::# After the summary and images are added, click '''Start Update'''.
:::::# Confirm the update and wait a few seconds for it to complete. Done.
:::::If you need any help or face any issues, please let me know. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:58, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

== Ezpr2 bug with empty custom message ==

Issue: .... then, i clicked submit, and the story published. I left weird looking messages to users: they included template, one user was addressed by name and others were addressed as &quot;User&quot;.

Proposed fix: I think if i specified custom message but did not fill it in, i should get asked to fill it in before submitting my review. (Also, in edit summary to user talk page, the section name should be included so i can click it in edit history page, and go directly to that section.) 

Hope it makes sense... 

Thanks a lot. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: The issue with the {{{user}}} parameter showing as resolved has been fixed. I recently made some modifications to the notification system, and I guess I introduced that bug during the process. Sorry about that.
:Regarding the template being used when the custom comment is empty: that was intentional, as otherwise an empty section would be created on the user's talk page. I will also add a check so that if the custom comment is empty, the reviewer cannot submit the review. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:17, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks Asked42, such a check would be helpful I think. :) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 13:22, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

== &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot; ==

At [[Wikinews:Newsroom]], there is a section labeled &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;. This section appears to be a mess. There are four retracted older articles in there, which are supposedly &quot;incorrectly&quot; flagged, but it is unknown what was incorrect about the flagging of those articles. Two of those articles are from 2013, one from 2021, and the other from 2025, so if anything is supposed to be done about them, it should be done already.

However, the fifth article is [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], an article which is currently {{tl|under review}}. It hasn't been &quot;flagged&quot; either correctly or incorrectly but is being reviewed. It ought to be listed in the &quot;Submitted for peer review&quot; section (where it does not currently appear) and omitted from &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;.

I asked a somewhat similar question at [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/archives/2025/October]] but the problem doesn't appear to have been resolved. -- [[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 03:05, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: In the case of the article [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], it has been marked stable (&quot;flagged&quot; in FlaggedRevs) in error, before being published. This can happen if a reviewer &quot;sights&quot; or approves changes before the article is published, which is relatively easy to accidentally do. [[User:Bawolff/sandbox/powerFlag]] no longer seems to work to de-flag articles in FlaggedRevs. But that article should disappear from the list once it's published or deleted as abandoned. 
: The other issue is a lack of consensus or documentation on exactly how to retract an article.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:02, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: I started [[Wikinews:Retraction policy]] in January in an attempt to get the process documented. I haven't officially proposed it yet. Input is welcome at the [[Wikinews talk:Retraction policy|talk page]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:32, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, Michael, but if Wikinews is now scheduled to be closed, I don't know if we need to deal with this any more. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 17:09, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29905755 --&gt;

== Main page leads not updating properly ==

The leads for the Main page are not updating properly on the main page, for some reason. They are correctly displayed when viewed individually. They are no longer using FlaggedRevs, so it isn't a problem of sighting. 

When I start to change the Main page, I can select &quot;show preview&quot; and the leads show correctly, but when I save changes to the main page, a cached version of the leads remains. The date is correct, so I know the page is updating. I also tried &lt;code&gt;?action=purge&lt;/code&gt; at the end of the URL and that doesn't work. 

They are properly displayed [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox#Main_page_leads_test|in my Sandbox]]

It's visible across three different browsers for me, even after clearing my browser caches. 

Any thoughts on what it could be?

{{tl|Lead article 1}}

{{tl|Lead article 2}}

{{tl|Lead article 3}}

{{tl|Lead article 4}}

{{tl|Lead article 5}}[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:33, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>964yp4te7t2ayr6wz9tc4bntkytk3i3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008344</id>
      <parentid>5008342</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:38:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Main page leads not updating properly */ reply ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008344</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14775" sha1="rhqvl2dy5jxcnalkcirgnafc4p3nc1z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 68%;&quot;&gt;''Page last updated:''&amp;nbsp;'''{{CURRENTDAYNAME}}&amp;nbsp;{{CURRENTDAY2}} at&amp;nbsp;{{evalx|(apply + (split (get-arg 2) &quot;:&quot;))|{{CURRENTTIME}}}}'''&amp;nbsp;[[w:UTC|UTC]].&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot; class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt; &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;

&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot;&gt;'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]&lt;/span&gt; [[File:Gtk-refresh.svg|20px|link={{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}}|Refresh this page]]'''&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
{{shortcut|[[WN:WCT]]}}
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
[http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews:Water_cooler/technical&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new post]
&lt;inputbox&gt;
bgcolor=transparent
type=fulltext
prefix=Wikinews:Water cooler/technical
break=yes
width=50
searchbuttonlabel=Search current discussions and archives
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
----
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archive = Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/archives/%(year)d/%(monthname)s
|algo = old(30d)
|counter = 1
|minthreadsleft = 1
}}
{{Watercooler archivebox}}
&lt;!-- Don't touch anything above this line. --&gt;
__TOC__

== Inline comment tool status check ==

Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]]

Please confirm whether you are working on an inline comments gadget. If not, I can write a basic version. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:29, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

:I was working on that. It can be used independently by a reviewer or together with EzPR2025. But then, I felt there was not much interest in it so I stopped. I will resume work and complete the script. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 11:26, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::👍 [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 15:51, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]], please let me know if the work on this is ongoing, and if I can be involved in coding or testing. If there is some other JS task that you would like me to do I would be happy to get started on it. Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:19, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I was a bit busy IRL for the past three days, so there hasn't been much progress since my last comment, although a little work has been done. Thank you for your interest in collaboratively developing/coding the scripts. But, I honestly don't have a very structured plan for developing them. I usually have a rough plan in my mind and in my notes, and then start developing. So I am not sure if there is any specific place where I can point to collaborate right now. I know that's not an ideal practice, but I am working on organizing my development process a bit more. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:11, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Hello, the inline comment gadget (named '''DynamicMarking''') is now available. Please try it out and test it. Detailed documentation is available at [[Wikinews:Easy Peer Review (2025 version)/DynamicMarking|WN:EzPR2025/Dynamic Marking]]. 
:::Here is a quick explanation of how to activate it and attach comments:
:::# Go to any article that is not published.
:::# If you are using Windows, press &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; together. (On macOS, press &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::# Dynamic Marking mode will be activated. Select any text in the article, and an icon ([[File:Codex icon highlight.svg|18px]]) will appear next to the selected text. Click the icon.
:::# A popover box will open. Enter your comment and click '''Save'''. That's all.
:::# Don't forget to deactivate Dynamic Marking mode by pressing &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; again. (On macOS, &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::-- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 07:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

== The lead articles need to be changed ==

The last '''four''' articles published are not featured on the front page:
*[[US president Donald Trump demands the unconditional surrender of Iran]]
*[[NSW government proposes rezoning to create residences midway between Sydney and Parramatta]]
*[[PM of Australia sends E-7A Wedgetail and air-to-air missiles to UAE]]
*[[Former Major League Baseball pitcher Julio Teherán retires]]
This problem is getting worse than it was a few days ago. If there is a tool such as Lead Manager that solves this problem, it needs to be required. Any tools for changing the front page headlines that don't deal with this problem correctly should be deleted so that whoever does this sort of thing will have to use the correct tool. ----[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:11, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
: Thank you for keeping an eye on it. I’ve updated the five leads.
: This likely reflects the current mix of reviewers rather than a tooling issue. We have one brand-new reviewer and another returning after a long break, during which a few tools—such as Lead Manager—were added. It’s easy to overlook the final publish step after reviewing, and once the five leads fall out of order it takes a little work to sort them again.
: For now it probably just means keeping an eye on it and helping everyone get comfortable with the newer tools and processes.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:29, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

The problem happened again with [[Two students die when boats capsize in Japan]] not being featured. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:58, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

:Does @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] know how to do the changes? @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 14:28, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::I tried to do it but I f***ed something up and the f***up was on the Main Page, so I had to self-revert. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 16:21, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: &lt;del&gt;What tool are you using to update the leads? Or are you updating them manually?&lt;/del&gt;
::: I see you're using MakeLead, which is the old version and not as intuitive as the new one; [[User:Asked42/LeadManager.js]]. I recommend you install LeadManager, it is much easier to use and automatically performs the full shuffle of lead 1→2, 2→3, 3→4, etc.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:43, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] has [[User talk:Lofi Gurl#c-Asked42-20260313163800-Lofi_Gurl-20260313153700|offered to install it for you]] if you'd prefer.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::yes I would like that. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 18:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]]: Done. To use it, visit [[User:Asked42/LeadManager#Lead Manager Form]] and follow these steps:
:::::# You will see a form. In the '''Title''' field, select the article that you just published.
:::::# Click the '''Fetch automatically''' button.
:::::# After the summary and images are added, click '''Start Update'''.
:::::# Confirm the update and wait a few seconds for it to complete. Done.
:::::If you need any help or face any issues, please let me know. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:58, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

== Ezpr2 bug with empty custom message ==

Issue: .... then, i clicked submit, and the story published. I left weird looking messages to users: they included template, one user was addressed by name and others were addressed as &quot;User&quot;.

Proposed fix: I think if i specified custom message but did not fill it in, i should get asked to fill it in before submitting my review. (Also, in edit summary to user talk page, the section name should be included so i can click it in edit history page, and go directly to that section.) 

Hope it makes sense... 

Thanks a lot. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: The issue with the {{{user}}} parameter showing as resolved has been fixed. I recently made some modifications to the notification system, and I guess I introduced that bug during the process. Sorry about that.
:Regarding the template being used when the custom comment is empty: that was intentional, as otherwise an empty section would be created on the user's talk page. I will also add a check so that if the custom comment is empty, the reviewer cannot submit the review. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:17, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks Asked42, such a check would be helpful I think. :) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 13:22, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

== &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot; ==

At [[Wikinews:Newsroom]], there is a section labeled &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;. This section appears to be a mess. There are four retracted older articles in there, which are supposedly &quot;incorrectly&quot; flagged, but it is unknown what was incorrect about the flagging of those articles. Two of those articles are from 2013, one from 2021, and the other from 2025, so if anything is supposed to be done about them, it should be done already.

However, the fifth article is [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], an article which is currently {{tl|under review}}. It hasn't been &quot;flagged&quot; either correctly or incorrectly but is being reviewed. It ought to be listed in the &quot;Submitted for peer review&quot; section (where it does not currently appear) and omitted from &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;.

I asked a somewhat similar question at [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/archives/2025/October]] but the problem doesn't appear to have been resolved. -- [[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 03:05, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: In the case of the article [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], it has been marked stable (&quot;flagged&quot; in FlaggedRevs) in error, before being published. This can happen if a reviewer &quot;sights&quot; or approves changes before the article is published, which is relatively easy to accidentally do. [[User:Bawolff/sandbox/powerFlag]] no longer seems to work to de-flag articles in FlaggedRevs. But that article should disappear from the list once it's published or deleted as abandoned. 
: The other issue is a lack of consensus or documentation on exactly how to retract an article.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:02, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: I started [[Wikinews:Retraction policy]] in January in an attempt to get the process documented. I haven't officially proposed it yet. Input is welcome at the [[Wikinews talk:Retraction policy|talk page]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:32, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, Michael, but if Wikinews is now scheduled to be closed, I don't know if we need to deal with this any more. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 17:09, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29905755 --&gt;

== Main page leads not updating properly ==

The leads for the Main page are not updating properly on the main page, for some reason. They are correctly displayed when viewed individually. They are no longer using FlaggedRevs, so it isn't a problem of sighting. 

When I start to change the Main page, I can select &quot;show preview&quot; and the leads show correctly, but when I save changes to the main page, a cached version of the leads remains. The date is correct, so I know the page is updating. I also tried &lt;code&gt;?action=purge&lt;/code&gt; at the end of the URL and that doesn't work. 

They are properly displayed [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox#Main_page_leads_test|in my Sandbox]]

It's visible across three different browsers for me, even after clearing my browser caches. 

Any thoughts on what it could be?

{{tl|Lead article 1}}

{{tl|Lead article 2}}

{{tl|Lead article 3}}

{{tl|Lead article 4}}

{{tl|Lead article 5}}[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:33, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
: Additionally, it's been this way at least since at least April 6 because [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Lead_article_1&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=5005257 this edit] and all the subsequent lead shuffles, were never visible on the Main page.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rhqvl2dy5jxcnalkcirgnafc4p3nc1z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008420</id>
      <parentid>5008344</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:17:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Asked42</username>
        <id>2864219</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Main page leads not updating properly */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="15151" sha1="3613uujpq72t9h4wga3rgplrke59tfn" xml:space="preserve">&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 68%;&quot;&gt;''Page last updated:''&amp;nbsp;'''{{CURRENTDAYNAME}}&amp;nbsp;{{CURRENTDAY2}} at&amp;nbsp;{{evalx|(apply + (split (get-arg 2) &quot;:&quot;))|{{CURRENTTIME}}}}'''&amp;nbsp;[[w:UTC|UTC]].&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot; class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt; &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;

&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot;&gt;'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]&lt;/span&gt; [[File:Gtk-refresh.svg|20px|link={{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}}|Refresh this page]]'''&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
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__TOC__

== Inline comment tool status check ==

Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]]

Please confirm whether you are working on an inline comments gadget. If not, I can write a basic version. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:29, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

:I was working on that. It can be used independently by a reviewer or together with EzPR2025. But then, I felt there was not much interest in it so I stopped. I will resume work and complete the script. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 11:26, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::👍 [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 15:51, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]], please let me know if the work on this is ongoing, and if I can be involved in coding or testing. If there is some other JS task that you would like me to do I would be happy to get started on it. Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:19, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I was a bit busy IRL for the past three days, so there hasn't been much progress since my last comment, although a little work has been done. Thank you for your interest in collaboratively developing/coding the scripts. But, I honestly don't have a very structured plan for developing them. I usually have a rough plan in my mind and in my notes, and then start developing. So I am not sure if there is any specific place where I can point to collaborate right now. I know that's not an ideal practice, but I am working on organizing my development process a bit more. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:11, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Hello, the inline comment gadget (named '''DynamicMarking''') is now available. Please try it out and test it. Detailed documentation is available at [[Wikinews:Easy Peer Review (2025 version)/DynamicMarking|WN:EzPR2025/Dynamic Marking]]. 
:::Here is a quick explanation of how to activate it and attach comments:
:::# Go to any article that is not published.
:::# If you are using Windows, press &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; together. (On macOS, press &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::# Dynamic Marking mode will be activated. Select any text in the article, and an icon ([[File:Codex icon highlight.svg|18px]]) will appear next to the selected text. Click the icon.
:::# A popover box will open. Enter your comment and click '''Save'''. That's all.
:::# Don't forget to deactivate Dynamic Marking mode by pressing &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; again. (On macOS, &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::-- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 07:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

== The lead articles need to be changed ==

The last '''four''' articles published are not featured on the front page:
*[[US president Donald Trump demands the unconditional surrender of Iran]]
*[[NSW government proposes rezoning to create residences midway between Sydney and Parramatta]]
*[[PM of Australia sends E-7A Wedgetail and air-to-air missiles to UAE]]
*[[Former Major League Baseball pitcher Julio Teherán retires]]
This problem is getting worse than it was a few days ago. If there is a tool such as Lead Manager that solves this problem, it needs to be required. Any tools for changing the front page headlines that don't deal with this problem correctly should be deleted so that whoever does this sort of thing will have to use the correct tool. ----[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:11, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
: Thank you for keeping an eye on it. I’ve updated the five leads.
: This likely reflects the current mix of reviewers rather than a tooling issue. We have one brand-new reviewer and another returning after a long break, during which a few tools—such as Lead Manager—were added. It’s easy to overlook the final publish step after reviewing, and once the five leads fall out of order it takes a little work to sort them again.
: For now it probably just means keeping an eye on it and helping everyone get comfortable with the newer tools and processes.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:29, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

The problem happened again with [[Two students die when boats capsize in Japan]] not being featured. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:58, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

:Does @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] know how to do the changes? @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 14:28, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::I tried to do it but I f***ed something up and the f***up was on the Main Page, so I had to self-revert. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 16:21, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: &lt;del&gt;What tool are you using to update the leads? Or are you updating them manually?&lt;/del&gt;
::: I see you're using MakeLead, which is the old version and not as intuitive as the new one; [[User:Asked42/LeadManager.js]]. I recommend you install LeadManager, it is much easier to use and automatically performs the full shuffle of lead 1→2, 2→3, 3→4, etc.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:43, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] has [[User talk:Lofi Gurl#c-Asked42-20260313163800-Lofi_Gurl-20260313153700|offered to install it for you]] if you'd prefer.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::yes I would like that. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 18:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]]: Done. To use it, visit [[User:Asked42/LeadManager#Lead Manager Form]] and follow these steps:
:::::# You will see a form. In the '''Title''' field, select the article that you just published.
:::::# Click the '''Fetch automatically''' button.
:::::# After the summary and images are added, click '''Start Update'''.
:::::# Confirm the update and wait a few seconds for it to complete. Done.
:::::If you need any help or face any issues, please let me know. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:58, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

== Ezpr2 bug with empty custom message ==

Issue: .... then, i clicked submit, and the story published. I left weird looking messages to users: they included template, one user was addressed by name and others were addressed as &quot;User&quot;.

Proposed fix: I think if i specified custom message but did not fill it in, i should get asked to fill it in before submitting my review. (Also, in edit summary to user talk page, the section name should be included so i can click it in edit history page, and go directly to that section.) 

Hope it makes sense... 

Thanks a lot. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: The issue with the {{{user}}} parameter showing as resolved has been fixed. I recently made some modifications to the notification system, and I guess I introduced that bug during the process. Sorry about that.
:Regarding the template being used when the custom comment is empty: that was intentional, as otherwise an empty section would be created on the user's talk page. I will also add a check so that if the custom comment is empty, the reviewer cannot submit the review. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:17, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks Asked42, such a check would be helpful I think. :) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 13:22, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

== &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot; ==

At [[Wikinews:Newsroom]], there is a section labeled &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;. This section appears to be a mess. There are four retracted older articles in there, which are supposedly &quot;incorrectly&quot; flagged, but it is unknown what was incorrect about the flagging of those articles. Two of those articles are from 2013, one from 2021, and the other from 2025, so if anything is supposed to be done about them, it should be done already.

However, the fifth article is [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], an article which is currently {{tl|under review}}. It hasn't been &quot;flagged&quot; either correctly or incorrectly but is being reviewed. It ought to be listed in the &quot;Submitted for peer review&quot; section (where it does not currently appear) and omitted from &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;.

I asked a somewhat similar question at [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/archives/2025/October]] but the problem doesn't appear to have been resolved. -- [[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 03:05, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: In the case of the article [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], it has been marked stable (&quot;flagged&quot; in FlaggedRevs) in error, before being published. This can happen if a reviewer &quot;sights&quot; or approves changes before the article is published, which is relatively easy to accidentally do. [[User:Bawolff/sandbox/powerFlag]] no longer seems to work to de-flag articles in FlaggedRevs. But that article should disappear from the list once it's published or deleted as abandoned. 
: The other issue is a lack of consensus or documentation on exactly how to retract an article.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:02, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: I started [[Wikinews:Retraction policy]] in January in an attempt to get the process documented. I haven't officially proposed it yet. Input is welcome at the [[Wikinews talk:Retraction policy|talk page]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:32, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, Michael, but if Wikinews is now scheduled to be closed, I don't know if we need to deal with this any more. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 17:09, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29905755 --&gt;

== Main page leads not updating properly ==

The leads for the Main page are not updating properly on the main page, for some reason. They are correctly displayed when viewed individually. They are no longer using FlaggedRevs, so it isn't a problem of sighting. 

When I start to change the Main page, I can select &quot;show preview&quot; and the leads show correctly, but when I save changes to the main page, a cached version of the leads remains. The date is correct, so I know the page is updating. I also tried &lt;code&gt;?action=purge&lt;/code&gt; at the end of the URL and that doesn't work. 

They are properly displayed [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox#Main_page_leads_test|in my Sandbox]]

It's visible across three different browsers for me, even after clearing my browser caches. 

Any thoughts on what it could be?

{{tl|Lead article 1}}

{{tl|Lead article 2}}

{{tl|Lead article 3}}

{{tl|Lead article 4}}

{{tl|Lead article 5}}[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:33, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
: Additionally, it's been this way at least since at least April 6 because [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Lead_article_1&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=5005257 this edit] and all the subsequent lead shuffles, were never visible on the Main page.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:That is super weird. I have no idea why this is happening. When I copy the content from the main page to my sandbox, the updated version shows up. It is only on the main page that this is happening. Maybe creating a Phabricator task may resolve this? since Wikinews has not been closed yet. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 17:17, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3613uujpq72t9h4wga3rgplrke59tfn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008421</id>
      <parentid>5008420</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:31:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Main page leads not updating properly */ reply to Asked42 ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
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      <text bytes="15392" sha1="bnmz2ih0o1qaiat5ficyfpnsekvgt0y" xml:space="preserve">&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 68%;&quot;&gt;''Page last updated:''&amp;nbsp;'''{{CURRENTDAYNAME}}&amp;nbsp;{{CURRENTDAY2}} at&amp;nbsp;{{evalx|(apply + (split (get-arg 2) &quot;:&quot;))|{{CURRENTTIME}}}}'''&amp;nbsp;[[w:UTC|UTC]].&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot; class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt; &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;

&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot;&gt;'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]&lt;/span&gt; [[File:Gtk-refresh.svg|20px|link={{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}}|Refresh this page]]'''&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
{{shortcut|[[WN:WCT]]}}
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__TOC__

== Inline comment tool status check ==

Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]]

Please confirm whether you are working on an inline comments gadget. If not, I can write a basic version. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:29, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

:I was working on that. It can be used independently by a reviewer or together with EzPR2025. But then, I felt there was not much interest in it so I stopped. I will resume work and complete the script. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 11:26, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::👍 [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 15:51, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]], please let me know if the work on this is ongoing, and if I can be involved in coding or testing. If there is some other JS task that you would like me to do I would be happy to get started on it. Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:19, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I was a bit busy IRL for the past three days, so there hasn't been much progress since my last comment, although a little work has been done. Thank you for your interest in collaboratively developing/coding the scripts. But, I honestly don't have a very structured plan for developing them. I usually have a rough plan in my mind and in my notes, and then start developing. So I am not sure if there is any specific place where I can point to collaborate right now. I know that's not an ideal practice, but I am working on organizing my development process a bit more. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:11, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Hello, the inline comment gadget (named '''DynamicMarking''') is now available. Please try it out and test it. Detailed documentation is available at [[Wikinews:Easy Peer Review (2025 version)/DynamicMarking|WN:EzPR2025/Dynamic Marking]]. 
:::Here is a quick explanation of how to activate it and attach comments:
:::# Go to any article that is not published.
:::# If you are using Windows, press &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; together. (On macOS, press &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::# Dynamic Marking mode will be activated. Select any text in the article, and an icon ([[File:Codex icon highlight.svg|18px]]) will appear next to the selected text. Click the icon.
:::# A popover box will open. Enter your comment and click '''Save'''. That's all.
:::# Don't forget to deactivate Dynamic Marking mode by pressing &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; again. (On macOS, &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::-- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 07:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

== The lead articles need to be changed ==

The last '''four''' articles published are not featured on the front page:
*[[US president Donald Trump demands the unconditional surrender of Iran]]
*[[NSW government proposes rezoning to create residences midway between Sydney and Parramatta]]
*[[PM of Australia sends E-7A Wedgetail and air-to-air missiles to UAE]]
*[[Former Major League Baseball pitcher Julio Teherán retires]]
This problem is getting worse than it was a few days ago. If there is a tool such as Lead Manager that solves this problem, it needs to be required. Any tools for changing the front page headlines that don't deal with this problem correctly should be deleted so that whoever does this sort of thing will have to use the correct tool. ----[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:11, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
: Thank you for keeping an eye on it. I’ve updated the five leads.
: This likely reflects the current mix of reviewers rather than a tooling issue. We have one brand-new reviewer and another returning after a long break, during which a few tools—such as Lead Manager—were added. It’s easy to overlook the final publish step after reviewing, and once the five leads fall out of order it takes a little work to sort them again.
: For now it probably just means keeping an eye on it and helping everyone get comfortable with the newer tools and processes.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:29, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

The problem happened again with [[Two students die when boats capsize in Japan]] not being featured. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:58, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

:Does @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] know how to do the changes? @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 14:28, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::I tried to do it but I f***ed something up and the f***up was on the Main Page, so I had to self-revert. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 16:21, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: &lt;del&gt;What tool are you using to update the leads? Or are you updating them manually?&lt;/del&gt;
::: I see you're using MakeLead, which is the old version and not as intuitive as the new one; [[User:Asked42/LeadManager.js]]. I recommend you install LeadManager, it is much easier to use and automatically performs the full shuffle of lead 1→2, 2→3, 3→4, etc.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:43, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] has [[User talk:Lofi Gurl#c-Asked42-20260313163800-Lofi_Gurl-20260313153700|offered to install it for you]] if you'd prefer.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::yes I would like that. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 18:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]]: Done. To use it, visit [[User:Asked42/LeadManager#Lead Manager Form]] and follow these steps:
:::::# You will see a form. In the '''Title''' field, select the article that you just published.
:::::# Click the '''Fetch automatically''' button.
:::::# After the summary and images are added, click '''Start Update'''.
:::::# Confirm the update and wait a few seconds for it to complete. Done.
:::::If you need any help or face any issues, please let me know. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:58, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

== Ezpr2 bug with empty custom message ==

Issue: .... then, i clicked submit, and the story published. I left weird looking messages to users: they included template, one user was addressed by name and others were addressed as &quot;User&quot;.

Proposed fix: I think if i specified custom message but did not fill it in, i should get asked to fill it in before submitting my review. (Also, in edit summary to user talk page, the section name should be included so i can click it in edit history page, and go directly to that section.) 

Hope it makes sense... 

Thanks a lot. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: The issue with the {{{user}}} parameter showing as resolved has been fixed. I recently made some modifications to the notification system, and I guess I introduced that bug during the process. Sorry about that.
:Regarding the template being used when the custom comment is empty: that was intentional, as otherwise an empty section would be created on the user's talk page. I will also add a check so that if the custom comment is empty, the reviewer cannot submit the review. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:17, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks Asked42, such a check would be helpful I think. :) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 13:22, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

== &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot; ==

At [[Wikinews:Newsroom]], there is a section labeled &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;. This section appears to be a mess. There are four retracted older articles in there, which are supposedly &quot;incorrectly&quot; flagged, but it is unknown what was incorrect about the flagging of those articles. Two of those articles are from 2013, one from 2021, and the other from 2025, so if anything is supposed to be done about them, it should be done already.

However, the fifth article is [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], an article which is currently {{tl|under review}}. It hasn't been &quot;flagged&quot; either correctly or incorrectly but is being reviewed. It ought to be listed in the &quot;Submitted for peer review&quot; section (where it does not currently appear) and omitted from &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;.

I asked a somewhat similar question at [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/archives/2025/October]] but the problem doesn't appear to have been resolved. -- [[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 03:05, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: In the case of the article [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], it has been marked stable (&quot;flagged&quot; in FlaggedRevs) in error, before being published. This can happen if a reviewer &quot;sights&quot; or approves changes before the article is published, which is relatively easy to accidentally do. [[User:Bawolff/sandbox/powerFlag]] no longer seems to work to de-flag articles in FlaggedRevs. But that article should disappear from the list once it's published or deleted as abandoned. 
: The other issue is a lack of consensus or documentation on exactly how to retract an article.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:02, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: I started [[Wikinews:Retraction policy]] in January in an attempt to get the process documented. I haven't officially proposed it yet. Input is welcome at the [[Wikinews talk:Retraction policy|talk page]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:32, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, Michael, but if Wikinews is now scheduled to be closed, I don't know if we need to deal with this any more. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 17:09, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29905755 --&gt;

== Main page leads not updating properly ==

The leads for the Main page are not updating properly on the main page, for some reason. They are correctly displayed when viewed individually. They are no longer using FlaggedRevs, so it isn't a problem of sighting. 

When I start to change the Main page, I can select &quot;show preview&quot; and the leads show correctly, but when I save changes to the main page, a cached version of the leads remains. The date is correct, so I know the page is updating. I also tried &lt;code&gt;?action=purge&lt;/code&gt; at the end of the URL and that doesn't work. 

They are properly displayed [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox#Main_page_leads_test|in my Sandbox]]

It's visible across three different browsers for me, even after clearing my browser caches. 

Any thoughts on what it could be?

{{tl|Lead article 1}}

{{tl|Lead article 2}}

{{tl|Lead article 3}}

{{tl|Lead article 4}}

{{tl|Lead article 5}}[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:33, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
: Additionally, it's been this way at least since at least April 6 because [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Lead_article_1&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=5005257 this edit] and all the subsequent lead shuffles, were never visible on the Main page.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:That is super weird. I have no idea why this is happening. When I copy the content from the main page to my sandbox, the updated version shows up. It is only on the main page that this is happening. Maybe creating a Phabricator task may resolve this? since Wikinews has not been closed yet. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 17:17, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Ticket created]. 👍[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:31, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bnmz2ih0o1qaiat5ficyfpnsekvgt0y</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008629</id>
      <parentid>5008421</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:14:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Main page leads not updating properly */ reply ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008629</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="16287" sha1="4l7uilyns7eo1al7ei2hy5wo0ojbk83" xml:space="preserve">&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 68%;&quot;&gt;''Page last updated:''&amp;nbsp;'''{{CURRENTDAYNAME}}&amp;nbsp;{{CURRENTDAY2}} at&amp;nbsp;{{evalx|(apply + (split (get-arg 2) &quot;:&quot;))|{{CURRENTTIME}}}}'''&amp;nbsp;[[w:UTC|UTC]].&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot; class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt; &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;

&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot;&gt;'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]&lt;/span&gt; [[File:Gtk-refresh.svg|20px|link={{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}}|Refresh this page]]'''&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
{{shortcut|[[WN:WCT]]}}
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
[http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews:Water_cooler/technical&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new post]
&lt;inputbox&gt;
bgcolor=transparent
type=fulltext
prefix=Wikinews:Water cooler/technical
break=yes
width=50
searchbuttonlabel=Search current discussions and archives
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
----
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archive = Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/archives/%(year)d/%(monthname)s
|algo = old(30d)
|counter = 1
|minthreadsleft = 1
}}
{{Watercooler archivebox}}
&lt;!-- Don't touch anything above this line. --&gt;
__TOC__

== Inline comment tool status check ==

Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]]

Please confirm whether you are working on an inline comments gadget. If not, I can write a basic version. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:29, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

:I was working on that. It can be used independently by a reviewer or together with EzPR2025. But then, I felt there was not much interest in it so I stopped. I will resume work and complete the script. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 11:26, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::👍 [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 15:51, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]], please let me know if the work on this is ongoing, and if I can be involved in coding or testing. If there is some other JS task that you would like me to do I would be happy to get started on it. Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:19, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I was a bit busy IRL for the past three days, so there hasn't been much progress since my last comment, although a little work has been done. Thank you for your interest in collaboratively developing/coding the scripts. But, I honestly don't have a very structured plan for developing them. I usually have a rough plan in my mind and in my notes, and then start developing. So I am not sure if there is any specific place where I can point to collaborate right now. I know that's not an ideal practice, but I am working on organizing my development process a bit more. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:11, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Hello, the inline comment gadget (named '''DynamicMarking''') is now available. Please try it out and test it. Detailed documentation is available at [[Wikinews:Easy Peer Review (2025 version)/DynamicMarking|WN:EzPR2025/Dynamic Marking]]. 
:::Here is a quick explanation of how to activate it and attach comments:
:::# Go to any article that is not published.
:::# If you are using Windows, press &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; together. (On macOS, press &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::# Dynamic Marking mode will be activated. Select any text in the article, and an icon ([[File:Codex icon highlight.svg|18px]]) will appear next to the selected text. Click the icon.
:::# A popover box will open. Enter your comment and click '''Save'''. That's all.
:::# Don't forget to deactivate Dynamic Marking mode by pressing &lt;code&gt;Alt&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt; again. (On macOS, &lt;code&gt;cmd&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;Shift&lt;/code&gt; + &lt;code&gt;M&lt;/code&gt;.)
:::-- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 07:37, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

== The lead articles need to be changed ==

The last '''four''' articles published are not featured on the front page:
*[[US president Donald Trump demands the unconditional surrender of Iran]]
*[[NSW government proposes rezoning to create residences midway between Sydney and Parramatta]]
*[[PM of Australia sends E-7A Wedgetail and air-to-air missiles to UAE]]
*[[Former Major League Baseball pitcher Julio Teherán retires]]
This problem is getting worse than it was a few days ago. If there is a tool such as Lead Manager that solves this problem, it needs to be required. Any tools for changing the front page headlines that don't deal with this problem correctly should be deleted so that whoever does this sort of thing will have to use the correct tool. ----[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:11, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
: Thank you for keeping an eye on it. I’ve updated the five leads.
: This likely reflects the current mix of reviewers rather than a tooling issue. We have one brand-new reviewer and another returning after a long break, during which a few tools—such as Lead Manager—were added. It’s easy to overlook the final publish step after reviewing, and once the five leads fall out of order it takes a little work to sort them again.
: For now it probably just means keeping an eye on it and helping everyone get comfortable with the newer tools and processes.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:29, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

The problem happened again with [[Two students die when boats capsize in Japan]] not being featured. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:58, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

:Does @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] know how to do the changes? @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 14:28, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::I tried to do it but I f***ed something up and the f***up was on the Main Page, so I had to self-revert. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 16:21, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: &lt;del&gt;What tool are you using to update the leads? Or are you updating them manually?&lt;/del&gt;
::: I see you're using MakeLead, which is the old version and not as intuitive as the new one; [[User:Asked42/LeadManager.js]]. I recommend you install LeadManager, it is much easier to use and automatically performs the full shuffle of lead 1→2, 2→3, 3→4, etc.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:43, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::: @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] has [[User talk:Lofi Gurl#c-Asked42-20260313163800-Lofi_Gurl-20260313153700|offered to install it for you]] if you'd prefer.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::yes I would like that. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 18:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]]: Done. To use it, visit [[User:Asked42/LeadManager#Lead Manager Form]] and follow these steps:
:::::# You will see a form. In the '''Title''' field, select the article that you just published.
:::::# Click the '''Fetch automatically''' button.
:::::# After the summary and images are added, click '''Start Update'''.
:::::# Confirm the update and wait a few seconds for it to complete. Done.
:::::If you need any help or face any issues, please let me know. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:58, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

== Ezpr2 bug with empty custom message ==

Issue: .... then, i clicked submit, and the story published. I left weird looking messages to users: they included template, one user was addressed by name and others were addressed as &quot;User&quot;.

Proposed fix: I think if i specified custom message but did not fill it in, i should get asked to fill it in before submitting my review. (Also, in edit summary to user talk page, the section name should be included so i can click it in edit history page, and go directly to that section.) 

Hope it makes sense... 

Thanks a lot. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: The issue with the {{{user}}} parameter showing as resolved has been fixed. I recently made some modifications to the notification system, and I guess I introduced that bug during the process. Sorry about that.
:Regarding the template being used when the custom comment is empty: that was intentional, as otherwise an empty section would be created on the user's talk page. I will also add a check so that if the custom comment is empty, the reviewer cannot submit the review. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 13:17, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks Asked42, such a check would be helpful I think. :) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 13:22, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

== &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot; ==

At [[Wikinews:Newsroom]], there is a section labeled &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;. This section appears to be a mess. There are four retracted older articles in there, which are supposedly &quot;incorrectly&quot; flagged, but it is unknown what was incorrect about the flagging of those articles. Two of those articles are from 2013, one from 2021, and the other from 2025, so if anything is supposed to be done about them, it should be done already.

However, the fifth article is [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], an article which is currently {{tl|under review}}. It hasn't been &quot;flagged&quot; either correctly or incorrectly but is being reviewed. It ought to be listed in the &quot;Submitted for peer review&quot; section (where it does not currently appear) and omitted from &quot;Incorrectly flagged articles&quot;.

I asked a somewhat similar question at [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/archives/2025/October]] but the problem doesn't appear to have been resolved. -- [[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 03:05, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: In the case of the article [[Two Cuba-bound aid boats located by Mexican Navy after going missing]], it has been marked stable (&quot;flagged&quot; in FlaggedRevs) in error, before being published. This can happen if a reviewer &quot;sights&quot; or approves changes before the article is published, which is relatively easy to accidentally do. [[User:Bawolff/sandbox/powerFlag]] no longer seems to work to de-flag articles in FlaggedRevs. But that article should disappear from the list once it's published or deleted as abandoned. 
: The other issue is a lack of consensus or documentation on exactly how to retract an article.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:02, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
: I started [[Wikinews:Retraction policy]] in January in an attempt to get the process documented. I haven't officially proposed it yet. Input is welcome at the [[Wikinews talk:Retraction policy|talk page]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 07:32, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, Michael, but if Wikinews is now scheduled to be closed, I don't know if we need to deal with this any more. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 17:09, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29905755 --&gt;

== Main page leads not updating properly ==

The leads for the Main page are not updating properly on the main page, for some reason. They are correctly displayed when viewed individually. They are no longer using FlaggedRevs, so it isn't a problem of sighting. 

When I start to change the Main page, I can select &quot;show preview&quot; and the leads show correctly, but when I save changes to the main page, a cached version of the leads remains. The date is correct, so I know the page is updating. I also tried &lt;code&gt;?action=purge&lt;/code&gt; at the end of the URL and that doesn't work. 

They are properly displayed [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox#Main_page_leads_test|in my Sandbox]]

It's visible across three different browsers for me, even after clearing my browser caches. 

Any thoughts on what it could be?

{{tl|Lead article 1}}

{{tl|Lead article 2}}

{{tl|Lead article 3}}

{{tl|Lead article 4}}

{{tl|Lead article 5}}[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:33, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
: Additionally, it's been this way at least since at least April 6 because [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Lead_article_1&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=5005257 this edit] and all the subsequent lead shuffles, were never visible on the Main page.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:That is super weird. I have no idea why this is happening. When I copy the content from the main page to my sandbox, the updated version shows up. It is only on the main page that this is happening. Maybe creating a Phabricator task may resolve this? since Wikinews has not been closed yet. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 17:17, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Ticket created]. 👍[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:31, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
: This does appear to be related to our [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|disabling FlaggedRevs in template namespace]] (see the [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator ticket] for details). 
: For this specific issue, I re-created all Lead article templates and moved the old ones for safe-keeping (links in the new template talk pages). 
: The Main page is once again functional. I tested Lead Manager and it updates the new templates as expected. 
: @[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]], this may be a one-off and not something that comes up again, but it could be worth keeping in mind if similar changes are proposed for other projects.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 22:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4l7uilyns7eo1al7ei2hy5wo0ojbk83</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Moldova</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>32829</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008381</id>
      <parentid>4590148</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:17:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
      <origin>5008381</origin>
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      <text bytes="1065" sha1="6w3f5l9sbwd89cb8lbvabw8rup4260p" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=Moldova}}
[[Image:Moldova on the globe (Europe centered).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Moldova denies Russian allegations of Ukrainian plan to attack breakaway Transnistria]]
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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* [[Wales: Final undecided legislators decline to run for Plaid Cymru party leader, leaving Rhun ap Iorwerth unopposed]]
* [[Wikinews attends Animeleague's summer 2023 Birmingham, UK Anime &amp; Gaming Con]]
* [[United Kingdom buries Queen Elizabeth II after state funeral]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Wales.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Wales]]}}
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      <comment>replace DPL with static list</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Iceland|
*13 December 2025: [[Iceland pulls out of Eurovision 2026, joining four other countries to do so]]
*1 July 2018: [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day 12, 13, 14, 15: Iran, Nigeria, Germany, Senegal out of the tournament]]
*27 June 2018: [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day eight, nine, ten, eleven: Belgium, England confirm knockout phase qualification; Poland, Costa Rica miss out Last 16]]
*18 June 2018: [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day three: France, Denmark and Croatia wins three points; Argentina shares the spoils with debutants Iceland]]
*16 June 2016: [[UEFA Euro 2016, days 4 and 5: three wins, two draws]]
}}
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;...[[CAT:Iceland|More articles here]]&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/div style&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Iceland|
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Göbeklitepe, Taş Tepeler and life 12,000 years ago exhibition opens in Berlin, Germany]]
* [[Turkish military transport plane crashes near Georgia border, 20 dead]]
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* [[Turkish court sentences journalist to prison for &quot;insulting Erdoğan&quot;]]
* [[Russian travel writer Viktor Pinchuk recounts Near East expedition in Verkhorechye, Crimea]]
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Prisoner exchange in Yemen ends after freeing over 800]]
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* [[Wikinews interviews Jo Jorgensen, U.S. Libertarian Party presidential nominee]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Switzerland.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Switzerland]]}}
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Football: Nottingham Forest defeat FC Utrecht 2-1]]
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{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Netherlands.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Netherlands]]}}
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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* [[International Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Deif over alleged war crimes in Israel-Hamas war]]
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* [[Hamas fires rockets at Tel Aviv]]
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{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Palestine.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Palestine]]}}
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Green Party wins major by-election in northern England city of Manchester]]
* [[&quot;I came to be the manager ... not the coach&quot;: Manchester United fire head coach Ruben Amorim]]
* [[Resident doctors in England begin five-day strike during flu surge]]
* [[UK MI6 chief Blaise Metreweli warns of 'grey zone' warfare in first speech]]
* [[10-man Preston North End draw with Coventry City in Championship fixture]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of United Kingdom.svg|90px|center|link=Category:United Kingdom]]}}
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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* [[2007 Cricket World Cup: Australia vs New Zealand]]
* [[2007 Cricket World Cup: England vs West Indies]]
* [[2007 Cricket World Cup - 1st Semi-Final: Sri Lanka vs New Zealand]]
* [[2007 Cricket World Cup - 2nd Semi-Final: Australia vs South Africa]]
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{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[:Category:2007 Cricket World Cup|All articles in category]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for the 2007 Cricket World Cup and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/2007 Cricket World Cup|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/2007 Cricket World Cup |here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/2007 Cricket World Cup |action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Mexican Navy medical plane with children transported for Michou and Mau Foundation crashes off Texas coast]]
* [[Air ambulance crashes into infrastructure in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania while transporting pediatric patient, no survivors]]
* [[Latin American expedition of Viktor Pinchuk: meeting with the traveler took place in Yalta]]
* [[Ecuadorian police break into the Mexican embassy in Quito]]
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{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Mexico.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Mexico]]}}
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[United States capture Venezuelan president, Nicolás Maduro]]
* [[On the campaign trail in the USA, October 2020]]
* [[US announces restrictions on flying to Cuba]]
* [[United States judges block third version of President Trump's travel ban]]
* [['Carlos the Jackal' on trial for third life sentence]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Venezuela.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Venezuela]]}}
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Kyiv street to be named for former Ukrainian parliament chairman Andriy Parubiy, killed in Lviv]]
* [[UK MI6 chief Blaise Metreweli warns of 'grey zone' warfare in first speech]]
* [[Russian &quot;Art Night&quot; in Crimea: Wikinews interviews Traveler Viktor Pinchuk]]
* [[Russian Justice Ministry designates former Putin advisor Sergey Markov as &quot;foreign agent&quot;]]
* [[Russia launches record drone, missile attack on Kyiv]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Russia.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Russia]]}}
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Court finds UK allowed undervalued Chinese imports into EU]]
* [[Hijackers divert Libyan passenger jet to Malta]]
* [[Five hundred migrants alleged killed in deliberate sinking in Mediterranean]]
* [[Effect of sanctions 'like war' says Iran's Ahmadinejad]]
* [[Anti-ACTA activists protest across Europe]]]]}}
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{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[UEFA Champions League 2016-2017: Draw for Last 16 held at Nyon]]
* [[Jenson Button wins 2009 Monaco Grand Prix]]
* [[Lewis Hamilton wins 2008 Monaco Grand Prix]]
* [[McLaren Mercedes drivers will start from top of 2007 Monaco Grand Prix]]
* [[Fernando Alonso wins 2007 Monaco Grand Prix]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Monaco.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Monaco]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].  Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Serbian Orthodox Church elects new Patriarch Porfirije]]
* [[UEFA Euro 2016 qualification match abandoned after brawl in Montenegro]]
* [[European Parliament committee backs visa-free travel for Balkan countries]]
* [[Eurovision 2008: First semi-final held in Belgrade]]
* [[Montenegro becomes 192nd UN Member State]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Montenegro.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Montenegro]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Iran launches missiles and drones at Israel]]
* [[UK clarifies foreign, domestic response to cost of living crisis]]
* [[Fire erupts in parking structure at Sola Airport, Norway]]
* [[Norway's Warholm wins gold in 400 m hurdles at World Championships in Doha]]
* [[Lightning strikes dead more than 300 wild reindeer in Norway]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Norway.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Norway]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[European Commission, five EU members agree to permit members to ban domestic sale of some Ukrainian agricultural products]]
* [[US President Biden says Russian President Putin must be ousted]]
* [[Shell chief executive warns Europe may have to ration energy]]
* [[British supermarket chain Tesco to sell its Polish branch to Salling Group A/S]]
* [[Polish leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski promises stricter punishments for child abusers]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Poland.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Poland]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Massive power outage hits Spain, Portugal]]
* [[Court finds UK allowed undervalued Chinese imports into EU]]
* [[Prime Minister of Slovakia Igor Matovič tests positive for COVID-19]]
* [[SARS-CoV-2 surpasses one million infections worldwide]]
* [[Hurricane Lorenzo hits Azores, heads towards Ireland]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Portugal.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Portugal]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[European Commission, five EU members agree to permit members to ban domestic sale of some Ukrainian agricultural products]]
* [[UEFA Euro 2016: France wins opening match 2-1 vs Romania]]
* [[UEFA Euro 2016, days 6 and 7: four wins, two draws]]
* [[UEFA Euro 2016, day 10: Romania-Albania, Switzerland-France]]
* [[Holocaust survivor and Nobel Laureate Elie Wiesel dies aged 87]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Romania.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Romania]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Azerbaijan win 2011 Eurovision Song Contest]]
* [[Eurovision 2008: First semi-final held in Belgrade]]
* [[Michael Schumacher breaks Formula One record for most poles]]
* [[UN holding recruitment exams in under-represented countries]]
* [[United Nations passes Declaration on human cloning]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of San Marino.svg|90px|center|link=Category:San Marino]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[European road police launch DUI enforcement campaign]]
* [[President of Serbia Aleksandar Vučić gets sick, flies home early from US visit]]
* [[Serbian protesters try to storm Parliament; fourth day of protests]]
* [[On the campaign trail in the USA, September 2020]]
* [[Serbian Orthodox Church elects new Patriarch Porfirije]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Serbia.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Serbia]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[European Commission, five EU members agree to permit members to ban domestic sale of some Ukrainian agricultural products]]
* [[Court finds UK allowed undervalued Chinese imports into EU]]
* [[Prime Minister of Slovakia Igor Matovič tests positive for COVID-19]]
* [[Fatal police helicopter crash in Slovakia due to technical failure: preliminary Interior Ministry finding]]
* [[UEFA Euro 2016, day 2: Albania-Switzerland, Wales-Slovakia, England-Russia face off]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Slovakia.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Slovakia]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]
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        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Slovenians reject referendum to recognize same-sex marriage]]
* [[Wikinews interviews academic Simon Ličen about attitudes towards US Paralympics]]
* [[Ukraine beats Great Britain women's sitting volleyball in straight sets at 2012 Summer Paralympics]]
* [[Defending Paralympic table tennis gold medalist Ying Zhou defeats Slovene Andreja Dolinar in group play]]
* [[Slovenia goes down to China in their final sitting volleyball game in pool play at London Paralympics]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Slovenia.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Slovenia]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Massive power outage hits Spain, Portugal]]
* [[Iran launches missiles and drones at Israel]]
* [[Indian and Spanish leaders inaugurate India's first private military aircraft facility]]
* [[Microsoft, Nware sign 10-year cloud gaming deal]]
* [[Australian Open: Nadal wins 21st Grand Slam]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Spain.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Spain]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Turkish court sentences journalist to prison for &quot;insulting Erdoğan&quot;]]
* [[Quran-burning refugee Salwan Momika fatally shot in Sweden apartment]]
* [[Finland becomes member of NATO]]
* [[Loreen wins Eurovision for Sweden for second time]]
* [[European Council agrees to crypto asset regulations]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Sweden.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Sweden]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008533</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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[[Image:Ukraine (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Kyiv street to be named for former Ukrainian parliament chairman Andriy Parubiy, killed in Lviv]]
* [[UK MI6 chief Blaise Metreweli warns of 'grey zone' warfare in first speech]]
* [[Russia launches record drone, missile attack on Kyiv]]
* [[Ukrainian drone strikes target four airfields in Russia]]
* [[Drone strike kills civilians in Bilopillia, Ukraine]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Ukraine.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Ukraine]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008541</origin>
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[[Image:Vatican on the globe (Europe centered).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Robert Francis Prevost elected as Pope Leo XIV]]
* [[Pope Benedict XVI dies at age 95]]
* [[Pope Francis beatifies short-lived, 'smiling Pope' John Paul I]]
* [[Pope Francis instructs reporting of sexual abuse to higher church authorities]]
* [[Chile: Pope Francis stirs outrage with 'slander' comment]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Vatican City (2023–present).svg|90px|center|link=Category:The Vatican]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/The Vatican|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/The Vatican|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/The Vatican|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:22:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>replace DPL with static list</comment>
      <origin>5008757</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Guyana|
*21 August 2011: [[Guyana president's libel case heard in court]]
*24 November 2010: [[Guyanese shadow finance minister Winston Murray dies aged 69]]
*17 March 2009: [[Latin America suffers drop in remittances]]
*26 January 2008: [[Guyana shooting is country's worst in 30 years]]
*2 June 2007: [[Four arrested in plot to bomb infrastructure at JFK International Airport, New York City]]
}}
&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;...[[Portal:Guyana|More articles here]]&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Guyana|
[[image:Guyana in its region.svg|196px|A map showing the location of Guyana]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Guyana|To view other articles on Guyana, see the Guyana Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
{{click|image=Flag of Guyana.svg|center|width=60px|height=45px|link=CAT:Guyana}}
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{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Guyana and its news. 

&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;includeonly&gt;[[Category:Guyana]]&lt;/includeonly&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;[[Category:Country infoboxes|Guyana]]&lt;/noinclude&gt;

[[CAT:Guyana]]</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Panama|
* [[Latin American expedition of Viktor Pinchuk: meeting with the traveler took place in Yalta]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day five: Sweden, Belgium, England win three points]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day eight, nine, ten, eleven: Belgium, England confirm knockout phase qualification; Poland, Costa Rica miss out Last 16]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day 12, 13, 14, 15: Iran, Nigeria, Germany, Senegal out of the tournament]]
* [[Investigation of Deutsche Bank headquarters spills into second day]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Panama|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Panama|
[[image:LocationPanama.png|196px|A map showing the location of Panama]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Panama|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Panama, see the Panama Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of Panama.svg|center|width=60px|height=45px|link=CAT:Panama}}&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Panama]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Panama and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Panama&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Panama]]
[[CAT:Panama]]
[[ar:قالب:بنما]]
[[es:Plantilla:Panamá]]
[[pt:Predefinição:Infotabela Panamá]]
[[ta:வார்ப்புரு:பனாமா]]
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
      <origin>5008455</origin>
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[[Image:Paraguay (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Latin American expedition of Viktor Pinchuk: meeting with the traveler took place in Yalta]]
* [[Argentina defeats Paraguay 6-1 in Copa America 2015 semi-finals]]
* [[Peru defeats Paraguay 2-0 in Copa America 2015 third place playoff]]
* [[Paraguayan ambassador to Chile visits Pichilemu hacienda after 'slavery' controversy]]
* [[2010 FIFA World Cup: arrivederci Italia!]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Paraguay.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Paraguay]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:40:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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[[Image:Peru (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Robert Francis Prevost elected as Pope Leo XIV]]
* [[Peruvian police locate bodies of security guards allegedly abducted by illegal goldminers]]
* [[Nobel laureate writer from Peru, Vargas Llosa dies]]
* [[Latin American expedition of Viktor Pinchuk: meeting with the traveler took place in Yalta]]
* [[Peru's top court restores pardon for ex-President Fujimori]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Peru.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Peru]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:09:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008496</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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[[Image:Suriname (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Wikinews Shorts: January 6, 2010]]
* [[United Nations passes Declaration on human cloning]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Suriname.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Suriname]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:21:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008527</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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[[Image:Trinidad and Tobago (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[United National Congress party wins elections, new government cabinet meets in Trinidad and Tobago]]
* [[Trinidad TV host charged over teen rape footage]]
* [[Trinidad TV host bailed on teen rape broadcast charges]]
* [[Blatter set to be re-elected as FIFA suspends two senior officials]]
* [[David Beckham arrives in Trinidad and Tobago amid security fears]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Trinidad and Tobago.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Trinidad and Tobago]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <title>Template:Uruguay</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008538</id>
      <parentid>4595468</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:25:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008538</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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[[Image:Uruguay (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Uruguayan Language Academy rejects FA sanction against Edinson Cavani as 'poverty of cultural and linguistic knowledge']]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 Day 2: Uruguay, Iran win three points each with late goals; Portugal-Spain share the spoils]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day seven: Portugal, Uruguay, Spain win 1-0]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day 12, 13, 14, 15: Iran, Nigeria, Germany, Senegal out of the tournament]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 Last 16: France, Uruguay send Argentina, Portugal home]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Uruguay.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Uruguay]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008752</id>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:16:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>replace DPL with static list</comment>
      <origin>5008752</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1121" sha1="a37xblm44fk8tcxbxsxrnzowkocw7j5" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=[[Grenada]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Grenada|
*23 November 2010: [[Cabinet Minister resigns after boycott in Grenada]]
*2 September 2007: [[Felix becomes Category 1 hurricane as it threatens Aruba]]
*7 September 2005: [[UN holding recruitment exams in under-represented countries]]
*14 July 2005: [[Hurricane Emily hits Grenada]]
*12 July 2005: [[Tropical Storm Emily forms in mid Atlantic, threatens North and Central America]]
}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Grenada|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Grenada|
[[image:Grenada in its region.svg|196px|A map showing the location of Grenada]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Grenada|To view other articles on Grenada, see the Grenada Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
{{click|image=Flag of Grenada.svg|center|width=60px|height=40px|link=CAT:Grenada}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Grenada]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Grenada and its news. 

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Grenada]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>5008397</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
      <origin>5008397</origin>
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[[Image:Nicaragua (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Latin American expedition of Viktor Pinchuk: meeting with the traveler took place in Yalta]]
* [[Hurricane Nate weakens as it reaches United States]]
* [[Magnitude 7.6 earthquake strikes Costa Rican coast, tsunami warnings issued]]
* [[Hurricane Ida comes ashore in Nicaragua]]
* [[Swine flu: recent developments worldwide]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Nicaragua.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Nicaragua]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008470</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[St. Lucian footballer Philip Tisson shot dead in Brooklyn, New York]]
* [[Somali pirates agree to release Egyptian ship with fertiliser cargo and 28 crew]]
* [[Tropical storm Chris strengthens]]
* [[United Nations passes Declaration on human cloning]]
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[St. Lucian footballer Philip Tisson shot dead in Brooklyn, New York]]
* [[Hurricane Dean is upgraded to a Category 2 storm]]
* [[Hurricane Dean now a Category 4 storm]]
* [[Hurricane Dean forecasted to become &quot;catastrophic&quot; Category 5 storm]]
* [[2007 Cricket World Cup: Kenya vs Canada]]
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* [[United Nations passes Declaration on human cloning]]}}
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Norway's Warholm wins gold in 400 m hurdles at World Championships in Doha]]
* [[Visa now compulsory for Qataris to enter Egypt, foreign ministry says]]
* [[Al Jazeera says Snapchat's act a 'clear attack on the rights of journalists' as Snapchat blocks Qatar-based news network's channel in Saudi Arabia]]
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Saudi Arabia announces astronaut to be nation's first female space traveler]]
* [[G20 fails to agree on joint statement on Russian invasion of Ukraine]]
* [[Prisoner exchange in Yemen ends after freeing over 800]]
* [[Sudan warring forces sign agreement to protect civilians, aid workers]]
* [[Financial Action Task Force places United Arab Emirates on money laundering 'grey' list]]
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* [[Russian travel writer Viktor Pinchuk recounts Near East expedition in Verkhorechye, Crimea]]
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* [[Reports: 'streamlined' UK asylum process to replace interview with questionnaire for five nationalities]]
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* [[Reports: 'streamlined' UK asylum process to replace interview with questionnaire for five nationalities]]
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* [[Yemeni journalist Nabil Hasan al-Quaety shot dead in Aden]]
* [[Oil facilities in Saudi Arabia hit by drone attacks]]
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* [[PM of Australia sends E-7A Wedgetail and air-to-air missiles to UAE]]
* [[UAE to impose corporate tax on business profits]]
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* [[On the campaign trail in the USA, August 2020]]
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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* [[Tonga enters lockdown after detecting new COVID-19 cases]]
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Expedition locates wreck of World War II-sunk ship Montevideo Maru]]
* [[Russian travel writer Viktor Pinchuk recounts Southeast Asia expedition in Sevastopol, Crimea]]
* [[Powerful earthquake strikes Papua New Guinea]]
* [[First Australian election debate: immigration policy, same-sex marriage]]
* [[Kiribati acquires international funding for solar power]]}}
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An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Thousands of pagers explode in Lebanon killing twelve people and injuring thousands]]
* [[US House Speaker Kevin McCarthy meets Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen in California]]
* [[China sanctions US, Asian entities after Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen visits US]]
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* [[China's Foreign Ministry sanctions US Representative Michael McCaul]]
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An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[North Korean leader Kim Jong Un oversees hypersonic missile test]]
* [[North Korea offers amnesty to criminals, marking important holidays]]
* [[North Korean veteran statesman Ri Yong Mu dies aged 97]]
* [[Kim Yo Jong criticizes US-South Korean military drills]]
* [[North Korea tests two missiles]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of North Korea.svg|90px|center|link=Category:North Korea]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
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Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground]]
* [[South Korean Constitutional Court upholds impeachment of President Yoon Suk Yeol]]
* [[Impeachment of South Korean president Yoon Suk Yeol fails]]
* [[South Korean president impeached by nation's parliament]]
* [[President of South Korea declares and lifts martial law]]
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{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of South Korea.svg|90px|center|link=Category:South Korea]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for South Korea and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:South_Korea&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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* [[Russian travel writer Viktor Pinchuk recounts Southeast Asia expedition in Sevastopol, Crimea]]
* [[Australia now recognises West Jerusalem as Israeli capital, Prime Minister Scott Morrison announces]]
* [[In Malaysia's high court, pathologist testifies Kim Jong Nam was killed by weapon of mass destruction]]
* [[Malaysian authorities arrest fourth suspect in killing of Kim Jong Nam, half-brother of North Korean leader]]
* [[Break-in attempted at mortuary housing remains of Kim Jong Nam]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Malaysia|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Malaysia|
[[image:LocationMalaysia.png|196px|A map showing the location of Malaysia]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Malaysia|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Malaysia, see the Malaysia Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

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An infobox for Malaysia and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Malaysia&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Malaysia]]

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* [[One Australian male and female archer qualify for Olympics after Ogden event]]
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&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Mongolia|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Mongolia|
[[image:LocationMongolia.png|196px|A map showing the location of Mongolia]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Mongolia|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Mongolia, see the Mongolia Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

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An infobox for Mongolia and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mongolia&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Mongolia]][[CAT:Mongolia]]&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Bangladesh beat hosts Myanmar 2–1 to qualify for 2026 AFC Women's Asian Cup]]
* [[Around 8,000 Rohingya Muslims have fled to Bangladesh]]
* [[Indian Prime Minister Modi attends 5th BIMSTEC summit virtually]]
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* [[International Criminal Court gives Myanmar till July 27 to respond on Rohingya case]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Myanmar.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Myanmar]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Indian Prime Minister Modi attends 5th BIMSTEC summit virtually]]
* [[German journalists detained in Qatar while investigating controversial 2022 FIFA World Cup hosting win]]
* [[Haitian cholera victims threaten United Nations with lawsuit]]
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{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Nepal.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Nepal]]}}
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[NBI seeks Interpol Red Notice for former lawmaker Zaldy Co]]
* [[TV host Willie Revillame files certificate of candidacy for upcoming Philippine elections]]
* [[Expedition locates wreck of World War II-sunk ship Montevideo Maru]]
* [[More than 75 dead as Typhoon Rai sweeps through Philippines]]
* [[Weightlifter Hidilyn Diaz wins the Philippines' first-ever Olympic gold medal]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Philippines.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Philippines]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[People's Action Party wins Singaporean election in landslide victory]]
* [[Indian chess grandmaster Gukesh Dommaraju, 18, becomes youngest world chess champion of all time]]
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* [[Scientists use DNA analysis to track elephant poaching networks]]
* [[Ranil Wickremesinghe sworn in as Sri Lankan President]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Singapore.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Singapore]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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[[Image:Sri Lanka (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Australian cricketer Shane Warne dies aged 52]]
* [[Indian Prime Minister Modi attends 5th BIMSTEC summit virtually]]
* [[Mass protests prompt Sri Lankan cabinet to resign]]
* [[Ranil Wickremesinghe sworn in as Sri Lankan President]]
* [[BBC newsreader Alagiah to undergo treatment for bowel cancer]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Sri Lanka.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Sri Lanka]]}}
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[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Tajikistan|
* [[Magnitude 7.5 earthquake hits Afghanistan]]
* [[21 sites added to Unesco World Heritage list]]
* [[Kyrgyzstan announces decision to close US base]]
* [[Tajik president meets Khamenei in Tehran]]
* [[ELF Cup kicks off in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Tajikistan|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Tajikistan|
[[image:LocationTajikistan.png|196px|A map showing the location of Tajikistan]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Tajikistan|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Tajikistan, see the Tajikistan Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

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{{InfosectionEnd}}{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Tajikistan]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Tajikistan and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Tajikistan&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[es:Plantilla:Tayikistán]]
[[fa:الگو:تاجیکستان]]
[[hu:Sablon:Tádzsikisztán]]
[[ru:Шаблон:Таджикистан]]
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Thai officials seize 238 tons of illegal e-waste at Bangkok port]]
* [[Thailand's Ping River water levels reach record high in 50 years]]
* [[Russian travel writer Viktor Pinchuk recounts Southeast Asia expedition in Sevastopol, Crimea]]
* [[Australian cricketer Shane Warne dies aged 52]]
* [[Indian Prime Minister Modi attends 5th BIMSTEC summit virtually]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Thailand.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Thailand]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Turkmenistan|
* [[Soviet human rights activist Yelena Bonner dies aged 88]]
* [[Turkmenistan President Niyazov dies of heart condition]]
* [[Turkmen president bans recorded music in public]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Turkmenistan|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Turkmenistan|
[[image:LocationTurkmenistan.png|196px|A map showing the location of Turkmenistan]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Turkmenistan|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Turkmenistan, see the Turkmenistan Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

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{{InfosectionEnd}}{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Turkmenistan]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Turkmenistan and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Turkmenistan&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Turkmenistan]]

[[ru:Шаблон:Туркмения]]
[[uk:Шаблон:Туркменістан]]
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Uzbekistan</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008539</id>
      <parentid>4611621</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:25:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008539</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Uzbekistan|
* [[Russian travel writer Viktor Pinchuk recounts Near East expedition in Verkhorechye, Crimea]]
* [[2012 Paralympic Village occupied by competitors as nations ready for the Games]]
* [[China leads medal race after day two of competition at London Paralympics]]
* [[Kyrgyzstan: Ethnic unrest continues, government asks Russia for help]]
* [[Top militant in Pakistan killed by suspected US missile drone]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Uzbekistan|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Uzbekistan|
[[image:LocationUzbekistan.png|196px|A map showing the location of Uzbekistan]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Uzbekistan|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Uzbekistan, see the Uzbekistan Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of Uzbekistan.svg|center|width=60px|height=34px|link=Portal:Uzbekistan}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Uzbekistan]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Uzbekistan and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Uzbekistan&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Uzbekistan]]

[[ru:Шаблон:Узбекистан]]
[[uk:Шаблон:Узбекистан]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>5008543</id>
      <parentid>4597691</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:28:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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[[Image:Vietnam (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Statuette exhibition Legends of Oriental Folklore opens in Simferopol, Crimea]]
* [[More than 75 dead as Typhoon Rai sweeps through Philippines]]
* [[Wikinews interviews 2020 Melbourne Lord Mayor Candidate Wayne Tseng]]
* [[UN tribunal dismisses Chinese claims to South China Sea]]
* [[India urges peaceful settlement of disputes at South China Sea]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Vietnam.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Vietnam]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>5008465</id>
      <parentid>4597916</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:44:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008465</origin>
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[[Image:Republic of the Congo (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Brazzaville picks up the pieces after ammo depot explosion]]
* [[Wreckage of crashed plane in Africa found]]
* [[60 reported dead in Congo train crash]]
* [[Thousands flee violence in northern Democratic Republic of the Congo]]
* [[Scientists say study proves chimps create termite gathering tools]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Republic of the Congo.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Republic of the Congo]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:13:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>replace DPL with static list</comment>
      <origin>5008751</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1095" sha1="7wijbeusqra0bjitcu4i6aobz4toa29" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=[[Gabon]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Gabon|
*2 February 2018: [[Football: Arsenal signs Aubameyang from Dortmund]]
*12 January 2015: [[Millions march in France and around the world in support of Charlie Hebdo]]
*20 October 2009: [[New Gabonese president names new government]]
*18 October 2009: [[Ali Bongo sworn in as president of Gabon]]
*13 October 2009: [[Gabon court upholds presidential candidate Bongo's win after protest]]
}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Gabon|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Gabon|
[[image:LocationGabon.png|196px|A map showing the location of Gabon]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Gabon|To view other articles on Gabon, see the Gabon Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
[[image:Flag of Gabon.svg|center|60x50px|link=CAT:Gabon]]
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Gabon]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Gabon and its news. 

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Gabon]]

[[es:Plantilla:Gabón]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>5008537</id>
      <parentid>3292484</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:24:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008537</origin>
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[[Image:United States (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City]]
* [[&quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture]]
* [[US president Donald Trump demands the unconditional surrender of Iran]]
* [[US President Donald Trump appears to wear makeup after apparent rash breaks out on neck, reports say]]
* [[Max Scherzer signs deal to return to Toronto Blue Jays]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of United States.svg|90px|center|link=Category:United States]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    <revision>
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      <parentid>4611613</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:19:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>replace DPL with static list</comment>
      <origin>5008755</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Guinea-Bissau|
*7 March 2010: [[Polio vaccination campaign targets 85 million African children]]
*3 October 2009: [[Six soldiers killed in Senegal after ambush]]
*1 April 2009: [[Guinea-Bissau to hold elections this June]]
*2 March 2009: [[President of Guinea-Bissau assassinated]]
*1 September 2005: [[West African cholera claims more than 500 lives, more deaths feared]]
}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Guinea-Bissau|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Guinea-Bissau|
[[image:LocationGuineaBissau.png|196px|A map showing the location of Guinea-Bissau]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Guinea-Bissau|To view other articles on Guinea-Bissau, see the Guinea-Bissau Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
{{click|image=Flag of Guinea-Bissau.svg|center|width=60px|height=35px|link=Portal:Guinea-Bissau}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Guinea-Bissau]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Guinea-Bissau and its news.

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Guinea-Bissau]]

[[ta:வார்ப்புரு:கினி-பிசாவு]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
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    <ns>10</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008363</id>
      <parentid>4611638</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:57:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
      <origin>5008363</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Madagascar|
* [[Wikinews interviews Aurélien Miralles about Sirenoscincus mobydick species discovery]]
* [[At least fourteen dead after eating toxic fish in Madagascar]]
* [[Madagascar's leader Andry Rajoelina 'will not run in polls']]
* [[Somali pirates seize tanker off coast of Madagascar]]
* [[Madagascar political rivals agree to unity government deal]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Madagascar|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Madagascar|
[[image:LocationMadagascar.png|196px|A map showing the location of Madagascar]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Madagascar|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Madagascar, see the Madagascar Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of Madagascar.svg|center|width=60px|height=45px|link=CAT:Madagascar}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Madagascar]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Madagascar and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Madagascar&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Madagascar]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>g3th5hpumq80um6cujzgeecyny8ybuj</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Malawi</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008365</id>
      <parentid>4869333</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:58:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008365</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Malawi|
* [[SARS-CoV-2 surpasses one million infections worldwide]]
* [[2012 Report on Gender Equality and Development looks at women's issues in India]]
* [[2012 Report on Gender Equality and Development credits Icelandic parental policy with 'hopeful' changes]]
* [[African Olympians and Paralympians prepare for their London odyssey]]
* [[Malawi President pardons jailed gay couple]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Malawi|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Malawi|
[[File:LocationMalawi.png|196px|alt=A map of southern Africa, with Malawi highlighted|A map showing the location of Malawi]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Malawi|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Malawi, see the Malawi Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of Malawi.svg|center|width=60px|height=45px|link=CAT:Malawi}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Malawi]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Malawi and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Malawi&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Malawi]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Mali</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008373</id>
      <parentid>3295098</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:12:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
      <origin>5008373</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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[[Image:Mali (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Troops freed by Mali return to Ivory Coast]]
* [[African Union summit closes; bloc reaffirms member suspensions, support for trade deal]]
* [[Bomb kills at least 50 in Gao, Mali]]
* [[Five dead after bar attack in Bamako, Mali]]
* [[Millions march in France and around the world in support of Charlie Hebdo]]]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Mali.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Mali]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>lnsxn6m9h5i18eq8ibgbcje6htkmd2t</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Mauritania</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>63677</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008369</id>
      <parentid>4611669</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:01:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008369</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Mauritania|
* [[UN passes LGBT rights resolution]]
* [[Algerian driver released by hostage takers in Niger]]
* [[Polio vaccination campaign targets 85 million African children]]
* [[Kidnapped Spanish aid worker is released]]
* [[Mauritania cuts ties with Israel, expels Israeli diplomats]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Mauritania|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Mauritania|
[[image:LocationMauritania.png|196px|A map showing the location of Mauritania]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Mauritania|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Mauritania, see the Mauritania Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of Mauritania.svg|center|width=60px|height=45px|link=CAT:Mauritania}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Mauritania]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Mauritania and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mauritania&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Mauritania]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0b0zf3sjty39q6bd7dhrmvrgtmv1m3b</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Mauritius</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>63678</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008376</id>
      <parentid>4611658</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:14:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008376</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Mauritius|
* [[Exiled Chagos islanders win right to return home]]
* [[UN holding recruitment exams in under-represented countries]]
* [[United Nations passes Declaration on human cloning]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Mauritius|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Mauritius|
[[image:LocationMauritius.png|196px|A map showing the location of Mauritius]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[CAT:Mauritius|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Mauritius, see the Mauritius Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of Mauritius.svg|center|width=60px|height=45px|link=Portal:Mauritius}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{{InfosectionEnd}}{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Mauritius]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Mauritius and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mauritius&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Mauritius]]
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Morocco|
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 Day 2: Uruguay, Iran win three points each with late goals; Portugal-Spain share the spoils]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day seven: Portugal, Uruguay, Spain win 1-0]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day 12, 13, 14, 15: Iran, Nigeria, Germany, Senegal out of the tournament]]
* [[US warns Spain of Christmas bus ramming plot in Barcelona]]
* [[Man with knife stabs people in Finnish city of Turku]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Morocco|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Morocco|
[[image:LocationMorocco.png|196px|A map showing the location of Morocco]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Morocco|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Morocco, see the Morocco Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of Morocco.svg|center|width=60px|height=45px|link=CAT:Morocco}}&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Morocco]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Morocco and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Morocco&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Morocco]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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[[Image:Mozambique (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[South African killer, rapist, serial escapee Ananias Mathe dies]]
* [[South African judge jails eight police for Mido Macia's 'barbaric' murder]]
* [[Portuguese government declares three days of mourning for Eusébio]]
* [[All plane occupants die in Namibia crash]]
* [[Report on Gender Equality and Development looks at women's issues in India]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Mozambique.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Mozambique]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Netumbo Nandi-Ndaitwah sworn in as Namibia's first female president]]
* [[Nickey Iyambo, former vice-president of Namibia, dies aged 82]]
* [[All plane occupants die in Namibia crash]]
* [[Fifteen medals awarded on London Paralympics fourth night of track and field]]
* [[Namibia votes in presidential election]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Namibia.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Namibia]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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[[Image:Niger (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Benin, Nigeria join African Union continental free trade bloc]]
* [[Nigeria allies join fight against Boko Haram]]
* [[2012 Report on Gender Equality and Development looks at women's issues in India]]
* [[Imminent danger of famine in the Sahel]]
* [[Algerian driver released by hostage takers in Niger]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Niger.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Niger]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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[[Image:Nigeria (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Nigerian abductors kill hostages despite ransom, officials report]]
* [[Electoral commission declares Bola Tinubu victor in Nigerian presidential election]]
* [[Bandit ringleader arrested in Nigeria]]
* [[Benin, Nigeria join African Union continental free trade bloc]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day eight, nine, ten, eleven: Belgium, England confirm knockout phase qualification; Poland, Costa Rica miss out Last 16]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Nigeria.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Nigeria]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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* [[United Nations passes Declaration on human cloning]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:São Tomé and Príncipe|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of São Tomé and Príncipe|
[[image:LocationSaoTomeAndPrincipe.png|196px|A map showing the location of São Tomé and Príncipe]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:São Tomé and Príncipe|To write, edit, start or view other articles on São Tomé and Príncipe, see the São Tomé and Príncipe Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of São Tomé and Príncipe.svg|center|width=60px|height=35px|link=CAT:São Tomé and Príncipe}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{{InfosectionEnd}}{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:São Tomé and Príncipe]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for São Tomé and Príncipe and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:São_Tomé_and_Príncipe&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|São Tomé and Príncipe]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Senegal|
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day six: Japan, Senegal, Russia win three points]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day eight, nine, ten, eleven: Belgium, England confirm knockout phase qualification; Poland, Costa Rica miss out Last 16]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day 12, 13, 14, 15: Iran, Nigeria, Germany, Senegal out of the tournament]]
* [[Russian government homosexuality position leads to NYC Russian vodka boycott]]
* [[2012 Paralympic Village occupied by competitors as nations ready for the Games]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Senegal|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Senegal|
[[image:Senegal (orthographic projection).svg|196px|A map showing the location of Senegal]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Senegal|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Senegal, see the Senegal Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;{{click|image=Flag of Senegal.svg|center|width=60px|height=45px|link=Cat:Senegal}}&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;!--{{InfosectionEnd}}--&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Senegal]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Senegal and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Senegal&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Senegal]][[ta:வார்ப்புரு:செனிகல்]]
[[CAT:Senegal]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Seychelles sentences Somali pirates to ten years in prison]]
* [[Pirates seize cargo ship in Indian Ocean]]
* [[Italian cruise ship thwarts attack by Somali pirates]]
* [[Somali pirates seize two European tankers, Seychelles yacht]]
* [[Pirates seize tourist yacht near Seychelles, troops deployed]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Seychelles.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Seychelles]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]
[[CAT:Seychelles]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <id>5008483</id>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:02:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[WHO warns of thousands of new Ebola cases]]
* [[Leading Sierra Leone doctor dies in Ebola epidemic]]
* [[WHO declares Ebola outbreak an international emergency]]
* [[Sierra Leone sends lone athlete for the nation's second ever Paralympic Games]]
* [[Charles Taylor gets 50 years for war crimes]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Sierra Leone.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Sierra Leone]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]
[[Cat:Sierra Leone]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Ugandan military helicopter crashes in Mogadishu, Somalia]]
* [[Fire destroys central market in Somaliland's capital]]
* [[Fifteen killed in Mogadishu, Somalia suicide bombing]]
* [[Dozens of people killed in Mogadishu, Somalia car bombings near Sahafi Hotel]]
* [[United States judges block third version of President Trump's travel ban]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Somalia.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Somalia]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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[[Image:South Africa (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[India wins 2025 Women's Cricket World Cup, defeating South Africa by 52 runs]]
* [[Several suspects dead in South Africa after shootout results in the rescue of abducted US pastor]]
* [[South African Civil Aviation Authority attributes helicopter crash to 'unsecured' penguin in the cabin]]
* [[US pastor abducted after being forced into own vehicle at gunpoint during raid of religious sermon in South Africa]]
* [[India wins T20 men's cricket world cup against South Africa]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of South Africa.svg|90px|center|link=Category:South Africa]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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  <page>
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        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[African Union summit closes; bloc reaffirms member suspensions, support for trade deal]]
* [[Prisoner exchange in Yemen ends after freeing over 800]]
* [[UN humanitarian chief Martin Griffiths urges guarantees of safe passage for aid amid Sudan conflict]]
* [[Sudan warring forces sign agreement to protect civilians, aid workers]]
* [[South Sudanese politician John Luk Jok dies aged about 68]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Sudan.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Sudan]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Activists claim sexual abuse and torture at the hands of Tanzanian authorities]]
* [[2012 Report on Gender Equality and Development looks at women's issues in India]]
* [[Effect of sanctions 'like war' says Iran's Ahmadinejad]]
* [[Observing the 2012 Human Trafficking Awareness Day in the US, and wider world]]
* [[Two politicians jailed for life over Rwandan genocide]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Tanzania.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Tanzania]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Togo|
* [[Troops freed by Mali return to Ivory Coast]]
* [[International Labour Organization elects first African leader as director general]]
* [[Vietnam's Le Van Cong wins gold in men's -49kg powerlifting at Rio Paralympics]]
* [[Polio vaccination campaign targets 85 million African children]]
* [[Two candidates in Togo elections claim victory; votes counted]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Togo|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Togo|
[[image:LocationTogo.png|196px|A map showing the location of Togo]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Togo|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Togo, see the Togo Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

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{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Togo]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Togo and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Togo&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Togo]]

[[ru:Шаблон:Того]]
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        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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* [[Tunisia's president dismisses prime minister, suspends parliament]]
* [[Tunisian Prime Minister signs decree to ban face veils in public institutions, government offices]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day five: Sweden, Belgium, England win three points]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day eight, nine, ten, eleven: Belgium, England confirm knockout phase qualification; Poland, Costa Rica miss out Last 16]]
* [[FIFA World Cup 2018 day 12, 13, 14, 15: Iran, Nigeria, Germany, Senegal out of the tournament]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Tunisia|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Tunisia|
[[image:LocationTunisia.png|196px|A map showing the location of Tunisia]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Tunisia|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Tunisia, see the Tunisia Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

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{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Tunisia]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Tunisia and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Tunisia&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Tunisia]]
[[ar:قالب:تونس]]
[[es:Plantilla:Túnez]]
[[pt:Predefinição:Infotabela Tunísia]]
[[ru:Шаблон:Тунис]]
[[uk:Шаблон:Туніс]]
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Ugandan court refuses bail to opposition politician Kizza Besigye]]
* [[Ugandan military helicopter crashes in Mogadishu, Somalia]]
* [[Activists claim sexual abuse and torture at the hands of Tanzanian authorities]]
* [[South Sudanese President Salva Kiir signs peace deal]]
* [[Congolese refugee death toll climbs]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Uganda.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Uganda]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]


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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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* [[Western Sahara campaigner still blocked from returning home by Moroccan authorities; on twentieth day of hunger strike]]
* [[Moroccan court sentences fourteen to jail on terror charges]]
* [[Parajet Skycar expedition takes off from London to Timbuktu]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Western Sahara|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Western Sahara|
[[image:LocationWesternSahara.png|196px|A map showing the location of Western Sahara]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Western Sahara|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Western Sahara, see the Western Sahara Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

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{{InfosectionEnd}}{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Western Sahara and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Western_Sahara&amp;action=purge Refresh]''
&lt;/noinclude&gt;

&lt;noinclude&gt;[[Category:Country infoboxes|Western Sahara]][[CAT:Western Sahara]]&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[SARS-CoV-2 surpasses one million infections worldwide]]
* [[Zambian President Edgar Lungu to undergo treatment abroad after collapse]]
* [[South African TV journalist mugged while preparing for live broadcast]]
* [[2012 Report on Gender Equality and Development looks at women's issues in India]]
* [[Hellen Saohaga's London performance second best for Solomon Islands at Olympics, Paralympics]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Zambia.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Zambia]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Translation links now handled by wikidata.; Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Financial Action Task Force places United Arab Emirates on money laundering 'grey' list]]
* [[Longtime leader of Zimbabwe Robert Mugabe dies aged 95]]
* [[Zimbabwean politician Bennett and four others die in New Mexico helicopter crash]]
* [[Commonwealth confirms receiving Zimbabwe's application to rejoin the bloc]]
* [[Zimbabwe: Robert Mugabe resigns presidency after military coup, threat of impeachment]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Zimbabwe.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Zimbabwe]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.


[[Category:Country infoboxes|Zimbabwe]]

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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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* [[6.9 Magnitude Earthquake strikes Solomon Islands]]
* [[Hellen Saohaga's London performance second best for Solomon Islands at Olympics, Paralympics]]
* [[Wikinews interviews Oceania Paralympic Committee President Paul Bird]]
* [[Telecom Commission of Solomon Islands issues phone company US$1M fine]]
* [[Vanuatu hit by 7.2 magnitude earthquake]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Solomon Islands|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Solomon Islands|
[[image:LocationSolomonIslands.png|196px|A map showing the location of Solomon Islands]]}}
&lt;div class=&quot;center&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Solomon Islands|To write, edit, start or view other articles on Solomon Islands, see the Solomon Islands Portal]]&lt;/div&gt;

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{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:Solomon Islands]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Solomon Islands and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Solomon_Islands&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|Solomon Islands]]

[[hu:Sablon:Salamon-szigetek]]
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        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Wikimania 2007 Site Events warming up for main conference]]
* [[Wikimania 2007 begins in Taipei, Taiwan]]
* [[Wikimania 2007 Exhibitions shows the culture of freedom]]
* [[Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[:Category:Wikimania 2007|All articles in category]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Event infoboxes]]

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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
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* [[North Macedonia parliament votes for deal with Bulgaria, clearing way for EU membership talks]]
* [[Macedonia's 'gypsy music queen' Esma Redžepova dies]]
* [[Russians top podium on second day of European Deaf Swimming Championships]]
* [[Russians continue to top podium on third day of European Deaf Swimming Championships]]
* [[2012 Report on Gender Equality and Development credits Icelandic parental policy with 'hopeful' changes]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[North Macedonia|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of North Macedonia|
[[image:LocationMacedonia.png|196px|A map showing the location of North Macedonia]]}}

&lt;div style=&quot;float: center; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;
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{{InfoboxEnd}}{{#if:{{{nocat|}}}||[[Category:North Macedonia]]}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for North Macedonia and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Macedonia&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

[[Category:Country infoboxes|North Macedonia]]

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Wikimania 2008 opens at Bibliotheca Alexandrina, Egypt]]
* [[Wikimania 2008: MediaWiki use in the U.S. Department of State]]
* [[Wikimania jury chooses Alexandria for 2008 location]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[:Category:Wikimania 2008|All articles in category]]}}
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An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

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{{Infosection|name=[[Baseball]] on Wikinews|
*11 March 2026: [[Former Major League Baseball pitcher Julio Teherán retires]]
*2 March 2026: [[Max Scherzer signs deal to return to Toronto Blue Jays]]
*1 June 2025: [[Baseball: Detroit Tigers sweep San Francisco Giants, making their fourth win in a row]]
*22 May 2025: [[Professional baseball is back in Tucson, Arizona, thanks to relocation of Mexican team]]
*22 April 2025: [[Baseball: Cincinnati Reds win against Baltimore Orioles]]
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[[ko:틀:야구 정보]]
[[sr:Шаблон:Бејзбол]]
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{{Infosection|name=[[:Category:Hugo Chávez|Hugo Chávez]] on Wikinews|
*5 March 2013: [[Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez dies aged 58]]
*18 February 2013: [[Venezuela opens granite processing facility in Bolívar]]
*9 October 2012: [[Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez re-elected]]
*25 July 2010: [[Venezuelan army on high alert after Chávez cuts diplomatic ties with Colombia]]
*25 July 2010: [[Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez cuts relations with Colombia]]
}}
&lt;center&gt;[[Venezuela]] on Wikinews&lt;/center&gt;
{{InfoboxEnd}}
&lt;noinclude&gt;
[[Category:Infoboxes|Chavez Hugo]]
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&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot;&gt;'''[[Special:Purge/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Refresh]]'''&lt;/span&gt; [[File:Gtk-refresh.svg|20px|link=Special:Purge/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Refresh this page]]&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
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&lt;!-- Don't touch anything above this line. --&gt;

== Tech News: 2026-12 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W12&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/12|Translations]] are available.

'''Updates for editors'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CodeMirror|{{int:codemirror-beta-feature-title}}]] beta feature, also known as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror|CodeMirror 6]], has been used for wikitext syntax highlighting since November 2024. It will be promoted out of beta by May 2026 in order to bring improvements and new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CodeMirror#Features|features]] to all editors who use the standard syntax highlighter. If you have any questions or concerns about promoting the feature out of beta, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help talk:Extension:CodeMirror|please share]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T259059]
* Some changes to local user groups are performed by stewards on Meta-Wiki and logged there only. Now, interwiki rights changes will be logged both on Meta-Wiki and the wiki of the target user to make it easier to access a full record of user's rights changes on a local wiki. Past log entries for such changes will be backfilled in the coming weeks. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T6055]
* On wikis using [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Flagged Revisions|Flagged Revisions]], the number of pending changes shown on [[{{#Special:PendingChanges}}]] previously counted pages which were no longer pending review, because they have been removed from the system without being reviewed, e.g. due to being deleted, moved to a different namespace, or due to wiki configuration changes. The count will be correct now. On some wikis the number shown will be much smaller than before. There should be no change to the list of pages itself. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T413016]
* Wikifunctions composition language has been rewritten, resulting in a new version of the language. This change aims to increase service stability by reducing the orchestrator's memory consumption. This rewrite also enables substantial latency reduction, code simplification, and better abstractions, which will open the door to later feature additions. Read more about [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-11|the changes]].
* Users can now sort search results alphabetically by page title. The update gives an additional option to finding pages more easily and quickly. Previously, results could be sorted by Edit date, Creation date, or Relevance. To use the new option, open 'Advanced Search' on the search results page and select 'Alphabetically' under 'Sorting Order'. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T403775]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:28}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:28|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, the bug that prevented UploadWizard on Wikimedia Commons from importing files from Flickr has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419263]
'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* A new special page, [[{{#special:LintTemplateErrors}}]], has been created to list transcluded pages that are flagged as containing lint errors to help users discover them easily. The list is sorted by the number of transclusions with errors. For example: [[{{#special:LintTemplateErrors}}/night-mode-unaware-background-color]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T170874]
* Users of the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CodeMirror|{{int:codemirror-beta-feature-title}}]] beta feature have been using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror|CodeMirror]] instead of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeEditor|CodeEditor]] for syntax highlighting when editing JavaScript, CSS, JSON, Vue and Lua content pages, for some time now. Along with promoting CodeMirror 6 out of beta, the plan is to replace CodeEditor as the standard editor for these content models by May 2026. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help talk:Extension:CodeMirror|Feedback or concerns are welcome]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419332]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror|CodeMirror]] JavaScript modules will soon be upgraded to CodeMirror 6. Leading up to the upgrade, loading the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;ext.CodeMirror&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;ext.CodeMirror.lib&lt;/code&gt; modules from gadgets and user scripts was deprecated in July 2025. The use of the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;ext.CodeMirror.switch&lt;/code&gt; hook was also deprecated in March 2025. Contributors can now make their scripts or gadgets compatible with CodeMirror 6. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror#Gadgets and user scripts|migration guide]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T373720]
* The MediaWiki Interfaces team is expanding coverage of REST API module definitions to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/API:REST API/Extensions|extension APIs]]. REST API modules are groups of related endpoints that can be independently managed and versioned. Modules now exist for [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T414470 GrowthExperiments] and [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419053 Wikifunctions] APIs. As we migrate extension APIs to this structure, documentation will move out of the main MediaWiki OpenAPI spec and REST Sandbox view, and will instead be accessible via module-specific options in the dropdown on the [https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:RestSandbox REST Sandbox] (i.e., [[{{#Special:RestSandbox}}]], available on all wiki projects).
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto|Scribunto]] extension provides different pieces of information about the wiki where the module is being used via the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual|mw.site]] library. Starting last week, the library also provides a [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#mw.site.wikiId|way]] of accessing the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Wiki ID|wiki ID]] that can be used to facilitate cross-wiki module maintenance. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T146616]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.20|MediaWiki]]

'''In depth'''
* The [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Coolest Tool Award|2026 Coolest Tool Award]] celebrating outstanding community tools, is now open for nominations! Nominate your favorite tool using the [https://wikimediafoundation.limesurvey.net/435684?lang=en nomination survey] form by 23 March 2026. For more information on privacy and data handling, please see the [[foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Coolest_Tool_Award_2026_Survey_Privacy_Statement|survey privacy statement]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/12|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W12&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 19:35, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30260505 --&gt;

== Tech News: 2026-13 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W13&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/13|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* Wikimedia site users can now log in without a password using passkeys. This is a secure method supported by fingerprint, facial recognition, or PIN. With this change, all users who opt for passwordless login will find it easier, faster, and more secure to log in to their accounts using any device. The new passkey login option currently appears as an autofill suggestion in the username field. An additional [[phab:T417120|&quot;Log in with passkey&quot; button]] will soon be available for users who have already registered a passkey. This update will improve security and user experience. The [[c:File:Passwordless_login_screencast.webm|screen recording]] demonstrates the passwordless login process step by step.
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/Server switch|All wikis will be read-only]] for a few minutes on Wednesday, 25 March 2026 at [https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1774450800 15:00 UTC]. This is for the datacenter server switchover backup tests, [[wikitech:Deployments/Yearly calendar|which happen twice a year]]. During the switchover, all Wikimedia website traffic is shifted from one primary data center to the backup data center to test availability and prevent service disruption even in emergencies.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Wikimedia site users can now export their notifications older than 5 years using a [[toolforge:echo-chamber|new Toolforge tool]]. This will ensure that users retain their important notifications and avoid them being lost based on the planned change to delete notifications older than 5 years, as previously announced. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T383948]
* Wikipedia editors in Indonesian, Thai, Turkish, and Simple English now have access to Special:PersonalDashboard. This is an [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Moderator Tools/Dashboard|early version of an experience]] that introduces newer editors to patrolling workflows, making it easier for them to move from making edits to participating in more advanced moderation work on their project. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T402647]
* The [[Special:Block]] now has two minor interface changes. Administrators can now easily perform indefinite blocks through a dedicated radio button in the expiry section. Also, choosing an indefinite expiry provides a different set of common reasons to select from, which can be changed at: [[MediaWiki:Ipbreason-indef-dropdown]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T401823]
* Mobile editors [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Contributors/Account Creation Experiments#Logged-out|at several wikis]] can now see an improved logged-out edit warning, thanks to the recent updates from the Growth team. These changes released last week are part of ongoing efforts and tests to enhance [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Contributors/Account Creation Experiments|account creation experience on mobile]] and then increase participation. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T408484]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:36}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:36|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, the bug that prevented mobile web users from seeing the block information when affected by multiple blocks has been fixed. They can now see messages of all the blocks currently affecting them when they access Wikipedia.

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Images built using Toolforge will soon get the upgraded buildpacks version, bringing support for newer language versions and other upstream improvements and fixes. If you use Toolforge Build Service, review the recent [https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/cloud-announce@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/EMYTA32EV2V5SQ2JIEOD2CL66YFIZEKV/ cloud-announce email] and update your build configuration as necessary to ensure your tools are compatible. [https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Toolforge/Building_container_images&amp;oldid=2392097#Buildpack_environment_upgrade_process][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380127]

* The [https://api.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page API Portal] documentation wiki will shut down in June 2026. API keys created on the API Portal will continue to work normally. api.wikimedia.org endpoints will be deprecated gradually starting in July 2026. Documentation on the API Portal is moving to [[mw:Wikimedia APIs|mediawiki.org]]. Learn more on the [[wikitech:API Portal/Deprecation|project page]].
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.21|MediaWiki]]

'''In depth'''
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes|WMDE Technical Wishes]] is considering improvements to [[m:WMDE Technical Wishes/References/VisualEditor automatic reference names|automatically generated reference names in VisualEditor]]. Please check out the [[m:WMDE Technical Wishes/References/VisualEditor automatic reference names#Proposed solutions|proposed solutions]] and participate in the [[m:Talk:WMDE Technical Wishes/References/VisualEditor automatic reference names#Request for comment|request for comment]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/13|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W13&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 16:51, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:UOzurumba (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30268305 --&gt;

== Upcoming Wikimedia Café meetup regarding the [[:meta:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2026-2027|the 2026-2027 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan]] ==

{{tmbox
| image = [[File:Wikimedia Café logo in plain SVG format.svg|45px]]
| type=notice
| text  = Hello! There will be a '''[[:meta:Wikimedia Café|Wikimedia Café]]''' meetup on '''Saturday, 11 April 2026 at 14:00 UTC''' ([https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1775916000 timestamp conversion tool]), focusing on the [[:meta:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2026-2027|the 2026-2027 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan]]. The featured guests will be {{Noping|KStineRowe (WMF)|label1=Kelsi Stine-Rowe}} (senior manager, [[:meta:Movement Communications|Movement Communications]], Wikimedia Foundation), and {{Noping|Samwalton9 (WMF)|label1=Sam Walton}} (senior product manager, [[:mw:Moderator Tools|Moderator Tools]], Wikimedia Foundation). &lt;br /&gt;

In addition to this Café session, [[:meta:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2026-2027/Collaboration|several additional meetings regarding the Annual Plan are listed on the Collaboration page]], and you may participate on the [[:meta:Talk:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2026-2027|talk page]]. &lt;br /&gt;

This Café meetup will be approximately two hours long. Attendees may choose to attend only for a part. Please see the Café page for more information, including [[:meta:Wikimedia Café#Signups for the April 2026 session|how to register]]. &lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Buntstifte Eberhard Faber crop 64h.jpg|860px|alt=cropped image of colored pencils]]
}}
[[User:Pine|Pine]] ([[User talk:Pine|talk]]) 05:27, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

:I did not get it. When and how is this going to happen? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:15, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:This message is 210% screen width of my mobile device. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:16, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;message&quot; /&gt;
Following [[:m:Public consultation about Wikinews|extended discussions]] within the Wikimedia movement about the Wikinews long-term sustainability, levels of community activity, and the availability of reliable news coverage on other platforms, the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has [[:m:Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|approved the closure]] of Wikinews.

Following this decision, all Wikinews editions will transition to read-only mode one month after this announcement, on 4 May. From that date onward, pages on Wikinews will remain publicly accessible for reading, reference and dump downloading, but editing and new content creation will no longer be possible.

Further information about the technical transition to read-only mode and the preservation of existing content will be shared in the coming weeks.

We thank all contributors who have participated in Wikinews over the years and helped build a unique experiment in collaborative journalism within the Wikimedia movement, and we understand that some of them might be disappointed by this decision. To our regret, the project wasn’t able to fulfil its promise, and many of its functions were eclipsed by the notable news coverage in Wikipedias. We hope the Wikinews editors will continue contributing to the other Wikimedia projects or free knowledge projects.&lt;section end=&quot;message&quot;/&gt;

[[User:Victoria|Victoria]], Affiliate and Community Liaison to the Board, 09:59, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Johan (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Johan_(WMF)/Wikinews_MassMassage_on_behalf_of_Lorenzo/Target_list&amp;oldid=29712956 --&gt;
::Pinging editors: @[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] @[[User:Wikiwide|Wikiwide]] @[[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]], @[[User:Dsuke1998AEOS|Dsuke1998AEOS]], @[[User:Ternera|Ternera]], @[[User:Monsieur2137|Monsieur2137]] @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]], @[[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]], @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]]. @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]], @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]], @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]], @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]], @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]], @[[User:Tduk|Tduk]], @[[User:Bawolff|Bawolff]], @[[User:Microchip08|Microchip08]], @[[User:RockerballAustralia|RockerballAustralia]], @[[User:SVTCobra|SVTCobra]], @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]], @[[User:Cromium|Cromium]], @[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] --[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 10:13, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Received, thank you. ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 11:25, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Gutwrenching. Oh well. It was a good run. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 12:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Im going to make a Fandom for Wikinews. Thoughts? @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 12:22, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::I won't do anything to stop you but if the project can't meet its goals on this platform then I highly doubt it can elsewhere, where articles will get far fewer readers than they will here. I'm convinced the only reason anybody even knows tgis project exists is because its WMF. We had our chance and we blew it, dude. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 12:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::I guess Miraheze is are only hope.
::::::@[[User:Victoria|Victoria]] @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 12:47, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::How many users from Wikinews do you think will actually migrate somewhere else? I'm thinking it might just be time for me to move on. I'm lowkey extremely pissed that five '''good''' articles I wrote last week went stale and unreviewed. It's a waste of fucking time. I'm not getting my hopes up just for the same thing to happen elsewhere. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 12:52, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Then write less. Sorry mate. Five a week is a bit too much for me to even read, not to mention review. I was thinking it would help if on whatever new platform, users could cluster themselves by interests and geographical location; for a decade I have not found any approachable and readily available user from my continent. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:Related discussion: [[Wikinews talk:Migration]]. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:13, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;message&quot; /&gt;
Following [[:m:Public consultation about Wikinews|extended discussions]] within the Wikimedia movement about the Wikinews long-term sustainability, levels of community activity, and the availability of reliable news coverage on other platforms, the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has [[:m:Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|approved the closure]] of Wikinews.

Following this decision, all Wikinews editions will transition to read-only mode one month after this announcement, on 4 May. From that date onward, pages on Wikinews will remain publicly accessible for reading, reference and dump downloading, but editing and new content creation will no longer be possible.

Further information about the technical transition to read-only mode and the preservation of existing content will be shared in the coming weeks.

We thank all contributors who have participated in Wikinews over the years and helped build a unique experiment in collaborative journalism within the Wikimedia movement, and we understand that some of them might be disappointed by this decision. To our regret, the project wasn’t able to fulfil its promise, and many of its functions were eclipsed by the notable news coverage in Wikipedias. We hope the Wikinews editors will continue contributing to the other Wikimedia projects or free knowledge projects.&lt;section end=&quot;message&quot;/&gt;

[[User:Victoria|Victoria]], Affiliate and Community Liaison to the Board, 11:34, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Johan (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Johan_(WMF)/Wikinews_MassMassage_on_behalf_of_Lorenzo/Target_list&amp;oldid=29712956 --&gt;
:Already got it, thanks. Who may have missed out? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:So quick, just few months;) ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 12:22, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::The decision was made before the ‘’’discussion’’’ ever began. Trust me. Mostly good memories here, though. Farewell English WN.—-[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 14:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I'm gonna cry [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 14:53, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] Agree, very sad. How can one claw back internet space from social media if the place which actually had RSS news feeds gets frozen? Want to recreate Wikinews in a different place, where it cannot be closed. And once that works, prepare for migration of whatever other project they will close next. Wikivoyage? Because at that rate, I have no willingness to contribute to Wikipedia itself - they are keeping it &quot;relevant&quot; by absorbing news reporting into encyclopaedia, which is cheating (and I don't think they have RSS feed - because their &quot;breaking news&quot; articles are not 'prepare and publish', they are 'publish and edit and improve over time'). And meanwhile, actual Wikipedia articles are years out of date - because there are so many of them. [[User:Wikiwide|Wikiwide]] ([[User talk:Wikiwide|talk]]) 00:12, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Of course! It wasted so much of my time during my most busy days, as a student volunteer, which is extremely unethical. It's downright treacherous just. [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 02:13, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::::I agree with @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] that discussion was not even started and there was no attempt to provide milestones or requests before closure. Luckily, the content is not proprietary and can be moved to another hosting space, giving access to continue work and to implement software changes that were needed a couple decades ago. As I mentioned above the related discussion is in [[Wikinews talk:Migration]]. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:24, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:Thanks for informing us. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:15, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2026-14 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W14&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/14|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Beta version of [[abstract:|Abstract Wikipedia]] a new Wikimedia project which is language-independent, was launched last week. The project allows communities to build Wikipedia articles in their native language, which can be readily accessed by other users in their own languages. The wiki is powered by instructions from Wikifunctions and also based on structured content from Wikidata. [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26|Read more]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* The Growth team is running an A/B test to evaluate a clearer, more user-friendly message that promotes account creation on wikis. Currently when logged-out mobile users begin editing, they see a jarring warning message that can feel abrupt and discouraging. This also presents temporary account editing as the default rather than encouraging account creation. The test is running on ten Wikipedias, including Arabic, French, Spanish and German. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Contributors/Account Creation Experiments#2. Improve logged-out warning message (T415160)|Read more]].
* The Wikimedia Apps team is inviting feedback on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Future of Editing on the Mobile Apps|how editing should work on the Wikipedia mobile apps]]. The discussion focuses on improving how users access editing tools when they tap &quot;Edit&quot;. This is part of a broader effort to convert readers who develop an interest in editing, to access a more user-friendly pathway to start contributing.
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:45}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:45|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, an issue where citation fetching from the large newspaper archive [https://www.newspapers.com Newspapers.com] was no longer working, due to a block in [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid|Citoid]] requests, has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419903]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.22|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/14|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W14&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 19:25, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30329462 --&gt;

== So -- I guess this is it... ==

Some of you young ones hardly know that English WN and WMF federation have had an array of skirmishes for roughly the past 19 years or so -- but this battle is finally over. I've made some good memories here and engaged in a very righteous thing: Citizen journalism. I hope each of you will take good things away. For those who've offended me: All if forgiven.😁For those I've offended: I hope to be on the receiving end of the same courtesy. I've learned a lot here. I've engaged with some cool, smart people here too. If anyone intends to create a 'fork' of this project: Please let me know. Can't make any hard promises, but I wouldn't mind checking it out. Great wishes to one and all -- and here's to many good days ahead.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 01:02, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:I have a wiki up on fandom, and one pending on miraheze @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 01:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::what wiki? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:25, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:::[[:w:Fandom (website)]], I guess [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 03:14, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:::https://newswikien.fandom.com/wiki/NewsWikiEN_Wiki
:::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 12:27, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Hi, thanks for the link. Do they allow to rename wikis? The post-migration name was not decided yet and it might not be &quot;newswikien&quot; in the final version. I will check it out on the weekend. What advantages or disadvantages does this have compared with miraheze? Do they allow installing custom mediawiki extensions? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:30, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:I guess they ultimately won. Thank you for all your time and work on this project over so many years, especially for your consistency. Many of our senior editors have become inactive over time (life happens); but you are one of the few who have continued to give your best. I truly appreciate all your help and advice during my time on Wikinews. Thank you again @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]]. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 07:37, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::I appreciate your generous words.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 12:50, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

== Excessive use of NSFW images in 1 RU WN article ==

I think [[:ru:Звездные мобильники: Ексей Пантелеев]] uses an excessive number of images. Since the uses makes these files '[[c:COM:INUSE|in use]]' and the project is due to be read-only in 1 month, now would be a good time to reduce the number of files included in it to a reasonable number. I don't speak Russian so I couldn't ask at the project or on the page's talk page. I think a smaller number of these files would be more appropriate and maybe people here could ask there and/or remove some of these files from the page if that's fine. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|talk]]) 15:32, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
: You can write in English at the RU forum. Anyways, those images are part of a [[commons:Category:Project &quot;Geekography&quot; by Exey Panteleev (nude portrayals of computer technology)|'Geekography']] photo set most of which isn't even in use, yet it remains. You could open a Commons RfD to take care of all of these photos, not just the ones used on that page. I imagine they'll be amenable there. [[User:AtUkr|AtUkr]] ([[User talk:AtUkr|talk]]) 20:54, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::Somebody could move this thread there. For example, I don't know the right place at RU.WN.
::And @M.C.Wrigth For clarity, I'm not asking for WN to be censored – the emphasis of the title is on &quot;Excessive&quot;, not on &quot;NSFW&quot;; and the post says &quot;reduce&quot;, not 'eliminate'. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|talk]]) 11:33, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
: You'll need to raise that issue at ru.WN. 
: en.WN is [[WN:NOT|not censored]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 06:26, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== wn-reporters.org mail + staying in contact ==

Pinging those who have access to wn-reporters.org mail @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]] (self) @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] @[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] (deceased &lt;/3) @[[User:RockerballAustralia|RockerballAustralia]] @[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] @[[User:Kitabc12345|Kitabc12345]] @[[User:LivelyRatification|LivelyRatification]] @Thibauld scelles (not sure what is their username -- @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] -- do you happen to know?) @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] @[[User:Cromium|Cromium]] @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] @[[User:Asheiou|Asheiou]] @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] @[[User:Leaderboard|Leaderboard]].

I have been maintaining wn-reporters.org mail server since @[[User:Brian McNeil|Brian McNeil]] passed away around July 4, 2020 -- Wow, it's been almost 6 years, that aches my heart.  Wikinews was part of my entire college life -- it is going to be 11 years on enwn this May 1, but after Pi zero's death, and writing his obituary, it became very difficult for me to come back here.  I will talk about this later.  But for now, I would request you all to individually back up your own mailboxes.  (I think if you log in via thunderbird, you would see an option to export the mails).  I am not pulling the plug on the server yet.  So you will have the access to mailboxes for the time being.  Though should we move to some other host, we would have to see how we deal with the accredited requests and access to the mailboxes.  For that, I will be lurking on Libera Chat, (OFTC, Slashnet, and tilde) on IRC as &quot;acagastya&quot;.  Additionally, I have my own IRC server irc.firebyagni.net:6667/6697 where I exist as &quot;firebyagni&quot;.

Ages ago, I had created a discord server for wikinews, but noone came, apart from @[[User:Athozus|AirSThib]].  Should anyone want to come, for the old times sake as the wikinews diaspora, please feel free to join here: https://discord.gg/cCEzC8d.

I have had some amazing people who mentored me.  I probably won't remember many of the people, but I am forever grateful to this wonderful community.  Wikinews was wikinews for me because of pizero and without him, neither would I have been on enwn, nor would I have known anyone of you.  @[[User:Abhinav619|Abhinav619]] @[[User:ImprovedWikiImprovment|ImprovedWikiImprovment]] @[[User:Tom Morris|Tom Morris]] @[[User:Chaetodipus|Chaetodipus]] @[[User:Microchip08|Microchip08]] @[[User:SVTCobra|SVTCobra]] @[[User:Tyrol5|Tyrol5]] @[[User:Cirt|Cirt]] @[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] @[[User:Amgine|Amgine]] @[[User:Wikiwide|Wikiwide]] @[[User:ShakataGaNai|ShakataGaNai]] @[[User:Blood Red Sandman|Blood Red Sandman]] @[[User:TUFKAAP|TUFKAAP]] @[[User:Skenmy|Skenmy]] @[[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] @[[User:Cspurrier|Cspurrier]] @[[User:Hawkeye7|Hawkeye7]] @[[User:LauraHale|LauraHale]] @[[User:Crtew|Crtew]] @[[User:Ezarate|Ezarate]] @[[User:DARIO SEVERI|DARIO SEVERI]] @[[User:AlvaroMolina|AlvaroMolina]] @[[User:Gopher65|Gopher65]] @[[User:Bluerasberry|Bluerasberry]] @[[User:Henrymyman|Henrymyman]] @[[User:Xbspiro|Xbspiro]] @[[User:Alextejthompson|Rubbish computer]] @[[User:Edu!|Edu!]] @[[User:Revi C.|-revi]] @[[User:MGA73|MGA73]] @[[User:Tempodivalse|Tempodivalse]] @[[User:Numbermaniac|Numbermaniac]] @[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] @[[User:Cassiopeia|Cassiopeia]] @[[User:Handraulic|Handraulic]] @[[User:AZOperator|AZOperator]] @[[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] @[[User:Cognitive137|Cognitive137]] and many more whom I forgot to ping -- thanks for being part of my mid-to-late teenage life.  enwn reminds me when I had just finished the school, wrote my first article which failed the review, the first article that passed the review -- the college days, me leaving the first college, going to Bangalore, buying scratch cards of internet data pack to write articles, hand-writing the articles, IRC bouncers and IRC bots, telegram bridges; figuring out how to do OR, and BR, ComicCons, then media interviews and what not?  When I think about it, it has been quite a journey.  Including those days when I fought with pizero -- and I hated that.  I have learnt a lot here, and I will be missing this community, which I cared in various degrees of capacity.  No matter how little we might have interacted, your allegiance to enwn was something I respected!

If you feel like being in contact, please feel free to reach out to me.  It really saddens me.  And I think I will get a big bottle of beer on May 4, after the READONLY kicks in, and drink and cry.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:08, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:Thank you for all your contributions to wikinews, @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]]. I did not have many opportunities to collaborate with you, and I wish I had. I also have spent much of my college life contributing to Wikinews, and I guess that will end with it. Thank you again, and take care. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:47, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::Also BTW, there is a [https://t.me/WikinewsComm Telegram group for Wikinews]. It has been active for quite a while, and many users are present there, although I do not know their corresponding usernames. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:58, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:Actually, there is a discord server [https://discord.gg/dvBt5mxw here] already, there is more than 2 users on it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:09, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:It has been so nice working with you, @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]]!!! 
:I think some issue with Wikinews are that it lacks social media exposure. Centralised 'one wiki somewhere' model can be confusing. Most real news papers pay someone to deliver their output to multiple channels (youtube, paper delivery to homes, newsletters to email, rss). These were not leveraged here. Even though things like Mastodon existed.
:I think one open source project had encouraged everyone to have a fork of it in GitHub, so they can experiment and merge later if their changes were substantial and successful. Perhaps someone could provide web hosting and ask everyone to create a fork if they wanted to maintain it and implement some ideas how to setup the workflow. These could possibly go into subdomains like 'Username-copy.wikinews.org' or 'Something-region-Username.wikinews.org'. Someone would need to go around and collect content from forks into their own fork. This could increase innovation for software and/or activate regional groups. While also making it more fragmented -- or not really, since content licence allows derivative works and re distribution, so someone could play around with how to present the same content to users differently. I think this could be inevitable.
:Connections with universities did not start beyond one university. This could be improved.
:Just a few thoughts on perspective in light of what you wrote above.
:(Wikinews helped me pass IELTS and TOEFL reading/writing components to 100%, and get a visa to Australia and cope with English language content in first year at uni. That was my impression.)
:Have a great day. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:20, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2026-15 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W15&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/15|Translations]] are available.

'''Updates for editors'''

* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CampaignEvents|CampaignEvents extension]] now includes a new group goal-setting feature, enabling organizers to set and track event goals such as the number of articles created and participating contributors in real time. Similarly, participants can work toward shared targets and see their collective impact as the event unfolds. The feature is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Learn more in [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CampaignEvents/Registration/Collaborative contributions#Goal setting|the documentation]].
* [[File:Maki-gift-15.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist labels|watchlist labels]] feature (announced in [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/07|Tech News 2026-07]]) is now available via VisualEditor, the source editor, and the 'watchstar' (or watch link, for skins that don't have a star icon). Previously it was only possible to assign labels via [[Special:EditWatchlist|EditWatchlist]]. In all three places it is a new field following the expiry field.
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:23}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:23|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, the issue where talk pages on mobile with Parsoid are unusable after empty section headers, has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419171]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The [[m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing|sub-referencing feature]], which lets editors add details to an existing reference without duplicating it, will be gradually rolled out to [[phab:T414094|more wikis]] later this year. Wikis using the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reference Tooltips|Reference Tooltips]] gadget are encouraged to update their version (typically at [[m:MediaWiki:Gadget-ReferenceTooltips.js|MediaWiki:Gadget-ReferenceTooltips.js]] as shown [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1344408362 here]) to ensure compatibility. Other reference-related gadgets may also be affected. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T416304]
* All Wikinews editions will be closed and switched to read-only mode on 4 May 2026. Content will remain accessible, but no new edits or articles can be added. This closure was approved by the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation following extended discussions. [[m:Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|Read more]].
* The [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/API:Action API|Action API]] has had several formats for requested output. One of them, &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;format=php&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt;, is being removed soon. Please ensure your scripts or bots use the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/API:Data formats#Output|JSON format]]. This removal should affect very few scripts and bots. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T118538]
* The [[Special:NamespaceInfo|Special:NamespaceInfo]] page now includes namespace aliases. For example &quot;WP&quot; for the &quot;Project&quot; (&quot;Wikipedia&quot;) namespace on the German Wikipedia. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381455]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.23|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/15|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W15&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 16:19, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30362761 --&gt;

== Tech News: 2026-16 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W16&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/16|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* Experienced editors are invited to [https://b24e11a4f1.catalyst.wmcloud.org/wiki/Main_Page test] the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Article guidance|Article guidance]] feature, designed to help less-experienced editors create well-structured, policy-compliant Wikipedia articles. Testing instructions are [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Article guidance/Test feature guide|available]]. Also, after reviewing [https://b24e11a4f1.catalyst.wmcloud.org/wiki/Category:Pages_using_article_guidance the outlines], please provide feedback on the [[mw:Talk:Article guidance|project talk page]]. Based on your input, the feature will be refined and transferred to the pilot Wikipedias to translate and adapt. Check out [[c:File:Article Guidance workflow demo - April 2026.webm|the video]] explaining the feature.
'''Updates for editors'''
* On most wikis, all autoconfirmed users can now use [[Special:ChangeContentModel|Special:ChangeContentModel]] page to [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:ChangeContentModel|create new pages with custom content models]], such as mass message lists, making custom page formats more accessible. Check [[Special:ListGroupRights|Special:ListGroupRights]] for the status of your wiki. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T248294]
* The Growth team has launched an [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Contributors/Account_Creation_Experiments|account creation experiment]] to evaluate whether adding an account creation button to the mobile web header increases new account registrations and encourages more mobile users to contribute to the wikis. The experiment is currently live on Hindi, Indonesian, Bengali, Thai, and Hebrew Wikipedia, and targets 10% of logged-out mobile web users.
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:30}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:30|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, an issue where VisualEditor could get stuck loading on Windows devices with animations turned off, has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T382856]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting later this week, {{int:group-abusefilter}} who have the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CodeMirror|{{int:codemirror-beta-feature-title}}]] beta feature enabled will have [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror|CodeMirror]] instead of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeEditor|CodeEditor]] as the editor at [[Special:AbuseFilter|Special:AbuseFilter]]. This is part of the broader effort to make the user experience more consistent across all editors. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T399673][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419332]
* Tools and bots that access the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Notifications/API|Notifications API]] (&lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;action=query&amp;meta=notifications&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt;) will need to update their OAuth or BotPassword grants to also include access to private notifications. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T421991]
* Due to a library upgrade, listings on category pages may be displayed out of order starting on Monday, 20th April. A migration script will be run to correct this, and will take hours to days depending on the size of the wiki (up to a week for English Wikipedia). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422544]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.24|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/16|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W16&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 15:19, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30380527 --&gt;</text>
      <sha1>65d5fs8wznj31g2wgl4orjbqykogqit</sha1>
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      <id>5008516</id>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:11:31Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Maroontruths</username>
        <id>2899178</id>
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      <comment>/* Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews */ Reply</comment>
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&lt;span style=&quot;font-size: 90%;&quot;&gt;'''[[Special:Purge/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Refresh]]'''&lt;/span&gt; [[File:Gtk-refresh.svg|20px|link=Special:Purge/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Refresh this page]]&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
[[/Archive|Archive]]
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bgcolor=transparent
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----
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{{Watercooler archivebox}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
__TOC__&lt;/noinclude&gt;
&lt;!-- Don't touch anything above this line. --&gt;

== Tech News: 2026-12 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W12&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/12|Translations]] are available.

'''Updates for editors'''
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CodeMirror|{{int:codemirror-beta-feature-title}}]] beta feature, also known as [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror|CodeMirror 6]], has been used for wikitext syntax highlighting since November 2024. It will be promoted out of beta by May 2026 in order to bring improvements and new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CodeMirror#Features|features]] to all editors who use the standard syntax highlighter. If you have any questions or concerns about promoting the feature out of beta, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help talk:Extension:CodeMirror|please share]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T259059]
* Some changes to local user groups are performed by stewards on Meta-Wiki and logged there only. Now, interwiki rights changes will be logged both on Meta-Wiki and the wiki of the target user to make it easier to access a full record of user's rights changes on a local wiki. Past log entries for such changes will be backfilled in the coming weeks. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T6055]
* On wikis using [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Flagged Revisions|Flagged Revisions]], the number of pending changes shown on [[{{#Special:PendingChanges}}]] previously counted pages which were no longer pending review, because they have been removed from the system without being reviewed, e.g. due to being deleted, moved to a different namespace, or due to wiki configuration changes. The count will be correct now. On some wikis the number shown will be much smaller than before. There should be no change to the list of pages itself. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T413016]
* Wikifunctions composition language has been rewritten, resulting in a new version of the language. This change aims to increase service stability by reducing the orchestrator's memory consumption. This rewrite also enables substantial latency reduction, code simplification, and better abstractions, which will open the door to later feature additions. Read more about [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-11|the changes]].
* Users can now sort search results alphabetically by page title. The update gives an additional option to finding pages more easily and quickly. Previously, results could be sorted by Edit date, Creation date, or Relevance. To use the new option, open 'Advanced Search' on the search results page and select 'Alphabetically' under 'Sorting Order'. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T403775]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:28}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:28|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, the bug that prevented UploadWizard on Wikimedia Commons from importing files from Flickr has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419263]
'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* A new special page, [[{{#special:LintTemplateErrors}}]], has been created to list transcluded pages that are flagged as containing lint errors to help users discover them easily. The list is sorted by the number of transclusions with errors. For example: [[{{#special:LintTemplateErrors}}/night-mode-unaware-background-color]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T170874]
* Users of the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CodeMirror|{{int:codemirror-beta-feature-title}}]] beta feature have been using [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror|CodeMirror]] instead of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeEditor|CodeEditor]] for syntax highlighting when editing JavaScript, CSS, JSON, Vue and Lua content pages, for some time now. Along with promoting CodeMirror 6 out of beta, the plan is to replace CodeEditor as the standard editor for these content models by May 2026. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help talk:Extension:CodeMirror|Feedback or concerns are welcome]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419332]
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror|CodeMirror]] JavaScript modules will soon be upgraded to CodeMirror 6. Leading up to the upgrade, loading the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;ext.CodeMirror&lt;/code&gt; or &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;ext.CodeMirror.lib&lt;/code&gt; modules from gadgets and user scripts was deprecated in July 2025. The use of the &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;ext.CodeMirror.switch&lt;/code&gt; hook was also deprecated in March 2025. Contributors can now make their scripts or gadgets compatible with CodeMirror 6. See the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror#Gadgets and user scripts|migration guide]] for more information. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T373720]
* The MediaWiki Interfaces team is expanding coverage of REST API module definitions to include [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/API:REST API/Extensions|extension APIs]]. REST API modules are groups of related endpoints that can be independently managed and versioned. Modules now exist for [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T414470 GrowthExperiments] and [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419053 Wikifunctions] APIs. As we migrate extension APIs to this structure, documentation will move out of the main MediaWiki OpenAPI spec and REST Sandbox view, and will instead be accessible via module-specific options in the dropdown on the [https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:RestSandbox REST Sandbox] (i.e., [[{{#Special:RestSandbox}}]], available on all wiki projects).
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto|Scribunto]] extension provides different pieces of information about the wiki where the module is being used via the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual|mw.site]] library. Starting last week, the library also provides a [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual#mw.site.wikiId|way]] of accessing the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Wiki ID|wiki ID]] that can be used to facilitate cross-wiki module maintenance. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T146616]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.20|MediaWiki]]

'''In depth'''
* The [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Coolest Tool Award|2026 Coolest Tool Award]] celebrating outstanding community tools, is now open for nominations! Nominate your favorite tool using the [https://wikimediafoundation.limesurvey.net/435684?lang=en nomination survey] form by 23 March 2026. For more information on privacy and data handling, please see the [[foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Coolest_Tool_Award_2026_Survey_Privacy_Statement|survey privacy statement]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/12|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W12&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 19:35, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30260505 --&gt;

== Tech News: 2026-13 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W13&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/13|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* Wikimedia site users can now log in without a password using passkeys. This is a secure method supported by fingerprint, facial recognition, or PIN. With this change, all users who opt for passwordless login will find it easier, faster, and more secure to log in to their accounts using any device. The new passkey login option currently appears as an autofill suggestion in the username field. An additional [[phab:T417120|&quot;Log in with passkey&quot; button]] will soon be available for users who have already registered a passkey. This update will improve security and user experience. The [[c:File:Passwordless_login_screencast.webm|screen recording]] demonstrates the passwordless login process step by step.
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/Server switch|All wikis will be read-only]] for a few minutes on Wednesday, 25 March 2026 at [https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1774450800 15:00 UTC]. This is for the datacenter server switchover backup tests, [[wikitech:Deployments/Yearly calendar|which happen twice a year]]. During the switchover, all Wikimedia website traffic is shifted from one primary data center to the backup data center to test availability and prevent service disruption even in emergencies.

'''Updates for editors'''
* Wikimedia site users can now export their notifications older than 5 years using a [[toolforge:echo-chamber|new Toolforge tool]]. This will ensure that users retain their important notifications and avoid them being lost based on the planned change to delete notifications older than 5 years, as previously announced. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T383948]
* Wikipedia editors in Indonesian, Thai, Turkish, and Simple English now have access to Special:PersonalDashboard. This is an [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Moderator Tools/Dashboard|early version of an experience]] that introduces newer editors to patrolling workflows, making it easier for them to move from making edits to participating in more advanced moderation work on their project. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T402647]
* The [[Special:Block]] now has two minor interface changes. Administrators can now easily perform indefinite blocks through a dedicated radio button in the expiry section. Also, choosing an indefinite expiry provides a different set of common reasons to select from, which can be changed at: [[MediaWiki:Ipbreason-indef-dropdown]]. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T401823]
* Mobile editors [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Contributors/Account Creation Experiments#Logged-out|at several wikis]] can now see an improved logged-out edit warning, thanks to the recent updates from the Growth team. These changes released last week are part of ongoing efforts and tests to enhance [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Contributors/Account Creation Experiments|account creation experience on mobile]] and then increase participation. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T408484]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:36}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:36|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, the bug that prevented mobile web users from seeing the block information when affected by multiple blocks has been fixed. They can now see messages of all the blocks currently affecting them when they access Wikipedia.

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Images built using Toolforge will soon get the upgraded buildpacks version, bringing support for newer language versions and other upstream improvements and fixes. If you use Toolforge Build Service, review the recent [https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/cloud-announce@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/EMYTA32EV2V5SQ2JIEOD2CL66YFIZEKV/ cloud-announce email] and update your build configuration as necessary to ensure your tools are compatible. [https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Toolforge/Building_container_images&amp;oldid=2392097#Buildpack_environment_upgrade_process][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380127]

* The [https://api.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page API Portal] documentation wiki will shut down in June 2026. API keys created on the API Portal will continue to work normally. api.wikimedia.org endpoints will be deprecated gradually starting in July 2026. Documentation on the API Portal is moving to [[mw:Wikimedia APIs|mediawiki.org]]. Learn more on the [[wikitech:API Portal/Deprecation|project page]].
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.21|MediaWiki]]

'''In depth'''
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes|WMDE Technical Wishes]] is considering improvements to [[m:WMDE Technical Wishes/References/VisualEditor automatic reference names|automatically generated reference names in VisualEditor]]. Please check out the [[m:WMDE Technical Wishes/References/VisualEditor automatic reference names#Proposed solutions|proposed solutions]] and participate in the [[m:Talk:WMDE Technical Wishes/References/VisualEditor automatic reference names#Request for comment|request for comment]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/13|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W13&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 16:51, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:UOzurumba (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30268305 --&gt;

== Upcoming Wikimedia Café meetup regarding the [[:meta:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2026-2027|the 2026-2027 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan]] ==

{{tmbox
| image = [[File:Wikimedia Café logo in plain SVG format.svg|45px]]
| type=notice
| text  = Hello! There will be a '''[[:meta:Wikimedia Café|Wikimedia Café]]''' meetup on '''Saturday, 11 April 2026 at 14:00 UTC''' ([https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1775916000 timestamp conversion tool]), focusing on the [[:meta:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2026-2027|the 2026-2027 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan]]. The featured guests will be {{Noping|KStineRowe (WMF)|label1=Kelsi Stine-Rowe}} (senior manager, [[:meta:Movement Communications|Movement Communications]], Wikimedia Foundation), and {{Noping|Samwalton9 (WMF)|label1=Sam Walton}} (senior product manager, [[:mw:Moderator Tools|Moderator Tools]], Wikimedia Foundation). &lt;br /&gt;

In addition to this Café session, [[:meta:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2026-2027/Collaboration|several additional meetings regarding the Annual Plan are listed on the Collaboration page]], and you may participate on the [[:meta:Talk:Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2026-2027|talk page]]. &lt;br /&gt;

This Café meetup will be approximately two hours long. Attendees may choose to attend only for a part. Please see the Café page for more information, including [[:meta:Wikimedia Café#Signups for the April 2026 session|how to register]]. &lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Buntstifte Eberhard Faber crop 64h.jpg|860px|alt=cropped image of colored pencils]]
}}
[[User:Pine|Pine]] ([[User talk:Pine|talk]]) 05:27, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

:I did not get it. When and how is this going to happen? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:15, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:This message is 210% screen width of my mobile device. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:16, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;message&quot; /&gt;
Following [[:m:Public consultation about Wikinews|extended discussions]] within the Wikimedia movement about the Wikinews long-term sustainability, levels of community activity, and the availability of reliable news coverage on other platforms, the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has [[:m:Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|approved the closure]] of Wikinews.

Following this decision, all Wikinews editions will transition to read-only mode one month after this announcement, on 4 May. From that date onward, pages on Wikinews will remain publicly accessible for reading, reference and dump downloading, but editing and new content creation will no longer be possible.

Further information about the technical transition to read-only mode and the preservation of existing content will be shared in the coming weeks.

We thank all contributors who have participated in Wikinews over the years and helped build a unique experiment in collaborative journalism within the Wikimedia movement, and we understand that some of them might be disappointed by this decision. To our regret, the project wasn’t able to fulfil its promise, and many of its functions were eclipsed by the notable news coverage in Wikipedias. We hope the Wikinews editors will continue contributing to the other Wikimedia projects or free knowledge projects.&lt;section end=&quot;message&quot;/&gt;

[[User:Victoria|Victoria]], Affiliate and Community Liaison to the Board, 09:59, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Johan (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Johan_(WMF)/Wikinews_MassMassage_on_behalf_of_Lorenzo/Target_list&amp;oldid=29712956 --&gt;
::Pinging editors: @[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] @[[User:Wikiwide|Wikiwide]] @[[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]], @[[User:Dsuke1998AEOS|Dsuke1998AEOS]], @[[User:Ternera|Ternera]], @[[User:Monsieur2137|Monsieur2137]] @[[User:Asked42|Asked42]], @[[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]], @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]]. @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]], @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]], @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]], @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]], @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]], @[[User:Tduk|Tduk]], @[[User:Bawolff|Bawolff]], @[[User:Microchip08|Microchip08]], @[[User:RockerballAustralia|RockerballAustralia]], @[[User:SVTCobra|SVTCobra]], @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]], @[[User:Cromium|Cromium]], @[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] --[[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 10:13, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Received, thank you. ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 11:25, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Gutwrenching. Oh well. It was a good run. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 12:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Im going to make a Fandom for Wikinews. Thoughts? @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 12:22, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::I won't do anything to stop you but if the project can't meet its goals on this platform then I highly doubt it can elsewhere, where articles will get far fewer readers than they will here. I'm convinced the only reason anybody even knows tgis project exists is because its WMF. We had our chance and we blew it, dude. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 12:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::I guess Miraheze is are only hope.
::::::@[[User:Victoria|Victoria]] @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 12:47, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::How many users from Wikinews do you think will actually migrate somewhere else? I'm thinking it might just be time for me to move on. I'm lowkey extremely pissed that five '''good''' articles I wrote last week went stale and unreviewed. It's a waste of fucking time. I'm not getting my hopes up just for the same thing to happen elsewhere. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 12:52, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Then write less. Sorry mate. Five a week is a bit too much for me to even read, not to mention review. I was thinking it would help if on whatever new platform, users could cluster themselves by interests and geographical location; for a decade I have not found any approachable and readily available user from my continent. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:Related discussion: [[Wikinews talk:Migration]]. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:13, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:Aww [[User:Maroontruths|Maroontruths]] ([[User talk:Maroontruths|talk]]) 20:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;message&quot; /&gt;
Following [[:m:Public consultation about Wikinews|extended discussions]] within the Wikimedia movement about the Wikinews long-term sustainability, levels of community activity, and the availability of reliable news coverage on other platforms, the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has [[:m:Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|approved the closure]] of Wikinews.

Following this decision, all Wikinews editions will transition to read-only mode one month after this announcement, on 4 May. From that date onward, pages on Wikinews will remain publicly accessible for reading, reference and dump downloading, but editing and new content creation will no longer be possible.

Further information about the technical transition to read-only mode and the preservation of existing content will be shared in the coming weeks.

We thank all contributors who have participated in Wikinews over the years and helped build a unique experiment in collaborative journalism within the Wikimedia movement, and we understand that some of them might be disappointed by this decision. To our regret, the project wasn’t able to fulfil its promise, and many of its functions were eclipsed by the notable news coverage in Wikipedias. We hope the Wikinews editors will continue contributing to the other Wikimedia projects or free knowledge projects.&lt;section end=&quot;message&quot;/&gt;

[[User:Victoria|Victoria]], Affiliate and Community Liaison to the Board, 11:34, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Johan (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Johan_(WMF)/Wikinews_MassMassage_on_behalf_of_Lorenzo/Target_list&amp;oldid=29712956 --&gt;
:Already got it, thanks. Who may have missed out? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:So quick, just few months;) ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 12:22, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::The decision was made before the ‘’’discussion’’’ ever began. Trust me. Mostly good memories here, though. Farewell English WN.—-[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 14:17, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:::I'm gonna cry [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 14:53, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] Agree, very sad. How can one claw back internet space from social media if the place which actually had RSS news feeds gets frozen? Want to recreate Wikinews in a different place, where it cannot be closed. And once that works, prepare for migration of whatever other project they will close next. Wikivoyage? Because at that rate, I have no willingness to contribute to Wikipedia itself - they are keeping it &quot;relevant&quot; by absorbing news reporting into encyclopaedia, which is cheating (and I don't think they have RSS feed - because their &quot;breaking news&quot; articles are not 'prepare and publish', they are 'publish and edit and improve over time'). And meanwhile, actual Wikipedia articles are years out of date - because there are so many of them. [[User:Wikiwide|Wikiwide]] ([[User talk:Wikiwide|talk]]) 00:12, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Of course! It wasted so much of my time during my most busy days, as a student volunteer, which is extremely unethical. It's downright treacherous just. [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 02:13, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::::I agree with @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] that discussion was not even started and there was no attempt to provide milestones or requests before closure. Luckily, the content is not proprietary and can be moved to another hosting space, giving access to continue work and to implement software changes that were needed a couple decades ago. As I mentioned above the related discussion is in [[Wikinews talk:Migration]]. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:24, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:Thanks for informing us. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:15, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2026-14 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W14&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/14|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* The Beta version of [[abstract:|Abstract Wikipedia]] a new Wikimedia project which is language-independent, was launched last week. The project allows communities to build Wikipedia articles in their native language, which can be readily accessed by other users in their own languages. The wiki is powered by instructions from Wikifunctions and also based on structured content from Wikidata. [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26|Read more]].

'''Updates for editors'''
* The Growth team is running an A/B test to evaluate a clearer, more user-friendly message that promotes account creation on wikis. Currently when logged-out mobile users begin editing, they see a jarring warning message that can feel abrupt and discouraging. This also presents temporary account editing as the default rather than encouraging account creation. The test is running on ten Wikipedias, including Arabic, French, Spanish and German. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Contributors/Account Creation Experiments#2. Improve logged-out warning message (T415160)|Read more]].
* The Wikimedia Apps team is inviting feedback on [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/Future of Editing on the Mobile Apps|how editing should work on the Wikipedia mobile apps]]. The discussion focuses on improving how users access editing tools when they tap &quot;Edit&quot;. This is part of a broader effort to convert readers who develop an interest in editing, to access a more user-friendly pathway to start contributing.
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:45}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:45|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, an issue where citation fetching from the large newspaper archive [https://www.newspapers.com Newspapers.com] was no longer working, due to a block in [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Citoid|Citoid]] requests, has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419903]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.22|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/14|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W14&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 19:25, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30329462 --&gt;

== So -- I guess this is it... ==

Some of you young ones hardly know that English WN and WMF federation have had an array of skirmishes for roughly the past 19 years or so -- but this battle is finally over. I've made some good memories here and engaged in a very righteous thing: Citizen journalism. I hope each of you will take good things away. For those who've offended me: All if forgiven.😁For those I've offended: I hope to be on the receiving end of the same courtesy. I've learned a lot here. I've engaged with some cool, smart people here too. If anyone intends to create a 'fork' of this project: Please let me know. Can't make any hard promises, but I wouldn't mind checking it out. Great wishes to one and all -- and here's to many good days ahead.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 01:02, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

:I have a wiki up on fandom, and one pending on miraheze @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 01:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::what wiki? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:25, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:::[[:w:Fandom (website)]], I guess [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 03:14, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:::https://newswikien.fandom.com/wiki/NewsWikiEN_Wiki
:::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 12:27, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Hi, thanks for the link. Do they allow to rename wikis? The post-migration name was not decided yet and it might not be &quot;newswikien&quot; in the final version. I will check it out on the weekend. What advantages or disadvantages does this have compared with miraheze? Do they allow installing custom mediawiki extensions? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:30, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:I guess they ultimately won. Thank you for all your time and work on this project over so many years, especially for your consistency. Many of our senior editors have become inactive over time (life happens); but you are one of the few who have continued to give your best. I truly appreciate all your help and advice during my time on Wikinews. Thank you again @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]]. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 07:37, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::I appreciate your generous words.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 12:50, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

== Excessive use of NSFW images in 1 RU WN article ==

I think [[:ru:Звездные мобильники: Ексей Пантелеев]] uses an excessive number of images. Since the uses makes these files '[[c:COM:INUSE|in use]]' and the project is due to be read-only in 1 month, now would be a good time to reduce the number of files included in it to a reasonable number. I don't speak Russian so I couldn't ask at the project or on the page's talk page. I think a smaller number of these files would be more appropriate and maybe people here could ask there and/or remove some of these files from the page if that's fine. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|talk]]) 15:32, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
: You can write in English at the RU forum. Anyways, those images are part of a [[commons:Category:Project &quot;Geekography&quot; by Exey Panteleev (nude portrayals of computer technology)|'Geekography']] photo set most of which isn't even in use, yet it remains. You could open a Commons RfD to take care of all of these photos, not just the ones used on that page. I imagine they'll be amenable there. [[User:AtUkr|AtUkr]] ([[User talk:AtUkr|talk]]) 20:54, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::Somebody could move this thread there. For example, I don't know the right place at RU.WN.
::And @M.C.Wrigth For clarity, I'm not asking for WN to be censored – the emphasis of the title is on &quot;Excessive&quot;, not on &quot;NSFW&quot;; and the post says &quot;reduce&quot;, not 'eliminate'. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|talk]]) 11:33, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
: You'll need to raise that issue at ru.WN. 
: en.WN is [[WN:NOT|not censored]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 06:26, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

== wn-reporters.org mail + staying in contact ==

Pinging those who have access to wn-reporters.org mail @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]] (self) @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] @[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] (deceased &lt;/3) @[[User:RockerballAustralia|RockerballAustralia]] @[[User:William S. Saturn|William S. Saturn]] @[[User:Kitabc12345|Kitabc12345]] @[[User:LivelyRatification|LivelyRatification]] @Thibauld scelles (not sure what is their username -- @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] -- do you happen to know?) @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] @[[User:Cromium|Cromium]] @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] @[[User:Asheiou|Asheiou]] @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] @[[User:Leaderboard|Leaderboard]].

I have been maintaining wn-reporters.org mail server since @[[User:Brian McNeil|Brian McNeil]] passed away around July 4, 2020 -- Wow, it's been almost 6 years, that aches my heart.  Wikinews was part of my entire college life -- it is going to be 11 years on enwn this May 1, but after Pi zero's death, and writing his obituary, it became very difficult for me to come back here.  I will talk about this later.  But for now, I would request you all to individually back up your own mailboxes.  (I think if you log in via thunderbird, you would see an option to export the mails).  I am not pulling the plug on the server yet.  So you will have the access to mailboxes for the time being.  Though should we move to some other host, we would have to see how we deal with the accredited requests and access to the mailboxes.  For that, I will be lurking on Libera Chat, (OFTC, Slashnet, and tilde) on IRC as &quot;acagastya&quot;.  Additionally, I have my own IRC server irc.firebyagni.net:6667/6697 where I exist as &quot;firebyagni&quot;.

Ages ago, I had created a discord server for wikinews, but noone came, apart from @[[User:Athozus|AirSThib]].  Should anyone want to come, for the old times sake as the wikinews diaspora, please feel free to join here: https://discord.gg/cCEzC8d.

I have had some amazing people who mentored me.  I probably won't remember many of the people, but I am forever grateful to this wonderful community.  Wikinews was wikinews for me because of pizero and without him, neither would I have been on enwn, nor would I have known anyone of you.  @[[User:Abhinav619|Abhinav619]] @[[User:ImprovedWikiImprovment|ImprovedWikiImprovment]] @[[User:Tom Morris|Tom Morris]] @[[User:Chaetodipus|Chaetodipus]] @[[User:Microchip08|Microchip08]] @[[User:SVTCobra|SVTCobra]] @[[User:Tyrol5|Tyrol5]] @[[User:Cirt|Cirt]] @[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] @[[User:Amgine|Amgine]] @[[User:Wikiwide|Wikiwide]] @[[User:ShakataGaNai|ShakataGaNai]] @[[User:Blood Red Sandman|Blood Red Sandman]] @[[User:TUFKAAP|TUFKAAP]] @[[User:Skenmy|Skenmy]] @[[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] @[[User:Cspurrier|Cspurrier]] @[[User:Hawkeye7|Hawkeye7]] @[[User:LauraHale|LauraHale]] @[[User:Crtew|Crtew]] @[[User:Ezarate|Ezarate]] @[[User:DARIO SEVERI|DARIO SEVERI]] @[[User:AlvaroMolina|AlvaroMolina]] @[[User:Gopher65|Gopher65]] @[[User:Bluerasberry|Bluerasberry]] @[[User:Henrymyman|Henrymyman]] @[[User:Xbspiro|Xbspiro]] @[[User:Alextejthompson|Rubbish computer]] @[[User:Edu!|Edu!]] @[[User:Revi C.|-revi]] @[[User:MGA73|MGA73]] @[[User:Tempodivalse|Tempodivalse]] @[[User:Numbermaniac|Numbermaniac]] @[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] @[[User:Cassiopeia|Cassiopeia]] @[[User:Handraulic|Handraulic]] @[[User:AZOperator|AZOperator]] @[[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] @[[User:Cognitive137|Cognitive137]] and many more whom I forgot to ping -- thanks for being part of my mid-to-late teenage life.  enwn reminds me when I had just finished the school, wrote my first article which failed the review, the first article that passed the review -- the college days, me leaving the first college, going to Bangalore, buying scratch cards of internet data pack to write articles, hand-writing the articles, IRC bouncers and IRC bots, telegram bridges; figuring out how to do OR, and BR, ComicCons, then media interviews and what not?  When I think about it, it has been quite a journey.  Including those days when I fought with pizero -- and I hated that.  I have learnt a lot here, and I will be missing this community, which I cared in various degrees of capacity.  No matter how little we might have interacted, your allegiance to enwn was something I respected!

If you feel like being in contact, please feel free to reach out to me.  It really saddens me.  And I think I will get a big bottle of beer on May 4, after the READONLY kicks in, and drink and cry.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:08, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:Thank you for all your contributions to wikinews, @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]]. I did not have many opportunities to collaborate with you, and I wish I had. I also have spent much of my college life contributing to Wikinews, and I guess that will end with it. Thank you again, and take care. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:47, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::Also BTW, there is a [https://t.me/WikinewsComm Telegram group for Wikinews]. It has been active for quite a while, and many users are present there, although I do not know their corresponding usernames. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:58, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:Actually, there is a discord server [https://discord.gg/dvBt5mxw here] already, there is more than 2 users on it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:09, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:It has been so nice working with you, @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]]!!! 
:I think some issue with Wikinews are that it lacks social media exposure. Centralised 'one wiki somewhere' model can be confusing. Most real news papers pay someone to deliver their output to multiple channels (youtube, paper delivery to homes, newsletters to email, rss). These were not leveraged here. Even though things like Mastodon existed.
:I think one open source project had encouraged everyone to have a fork of it in GitHub, so they can experiment and merge later if their changes were substantial and successful. Perhaps someone could provide web hosting and ask everyone to create a fork if they wanted to maintain it and implement some ideas how to setup the workflow. These could possibly go into subdomains like 'Username-copy.wikinews.org' or 'Something-region-Username.wikinews.org'. Someone would need to go around and collect content from forks into their own fork. This could increase innovation for software and/or activate regional groups. While also making it more fragmented -- or not really, since content licence allows derivative works and re distribution, so someone could play around with how to present the same content to users differently. I think this could be inevitable.
:Connections with universities did not start beyond one university. This could be improved.
:Just a few thoughts on perspective in light of what you wrote above.
:(Wikinews helped me pass IELTS and TOEFL reading/writing components to 100%, and get a visa to Australia and cope with English language content in first year at uni. That was my impression.)
:Have a great day. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:20, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2026-15 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W15&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/15|Translations]] are available.

'''Updates for editors'''

* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CampaignEvents|CampaignEvents extension]] now includes a new group goal-setting feature, enabling organizers to set and track event goals such as the number of articles created and participating contributors in real time. Similarly, participants can work toward shared targets and see their collective impact as the event unfolds. The feature is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. Learn more in [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CampaignEvents/Registration/Collaborative contributions#Goal setting|the documentation]].
* [[File:Maki-gift-15.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Wishlist item]] The new [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Watchlist labels|watchlist labels]] feature (announced in [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/07|Tech News 2026-07]]) is now available via VisualEditor, the source editor, and the 'watchstar' (or watch link, for skins that don't have a star icon). Previously it was only possible to assign labels via [[Special:EditWatchlist|EditWatchlist]]. In all three places it is a new field following the expiry field.
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:23}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:23|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, the issue where talk pages on mobile with Parsoid are unusable after empty section headers, has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419171]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* The [[m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing|sub-referencing feature]], which lets editors add details to an existing reference without duplicating it, will be gradually rolled out to [[phab:T414094|more wikis]] later this year. Wikis using the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reference Tooltips|Reference Tooltips]] gadget are encouraged to update their version (typically at [[m:MediaWiki:Gadget-ReferenceTooltips.js|MediaWiki:Gadget-ReferenceTooltips.js]] as shown [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1344408362 here]) to ensure compatibility. Other reference-related gadgets may also be affected. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T416304]
* All Wikinews editions will be closed and switched to read-only mode on 4 May 2026. Content will remain accessible, but no new edits or articles can be added. This closure was approved by the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation following extended discussions. [[m:Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|Read more]].
* The [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/API:Action API|Action API]] has had several formats for requested output. One of them, &lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;format=php&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt;, is being removed soon. Please ensure your scripts or bots use the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/API:Data formats#Output|JSON format]]. This removal should affect very few scripts and bots. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T118538]
* The [[Special:NamespaceInfo|Special:NamespaceInfo]] page now includes namespace aliases. For example &quot;WP&quot; for the &quot;Project&quot; (&quot;Wikipedia&quot;) namespace on the German Wikipedia. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T381455]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.23|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/15|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W15&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 16:19, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30362761 --&gt;

== Tech News: 2026-16 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W16&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/16|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* Experienced editors are invited to [https://b24e11a4f1.catalyst.wmcloud.org/wiki/Main_Page test] the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Article guidance|Article guidance]] feature, designed to help less-experienced editors create well-structured, policy-compliant Wikipedia articles. Testing instructions are [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Article guidance/Test feature guide|available]]. Also, after reviewing [https://b24e11a4f1.catalyst.wmcloud.org/wiki/Category:Pages_using_article_guidance the outlines], please provide feedback on the [[mw:Talk:Article guidance|project talk page]]. Based on your input, the feature will be refined and transferred to the pilot Wikipedias to translate and adapt. Check out [[c:File:Article Guidance workflow demo - April 2026.webm|the video]] explaining the feature.
'''Updates for editors'''
* On most wikis, all autoconfirmed users can now use [[Special:ChangeContentModel|Special:ChangeContentModel]] page to [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:ChangeContentModel|create new pages with custom content models]], such as mass message lists, making custom page formats more accessible. Check [[Special:ListGroupRights|Special:ListGroupRights]] for the status of your wiki. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T248294]
* The Growth team has launched an [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Contributors/Account_Creation_Experiments|account creation experiment]] to evaluate whether adding an account creation button to the mobile web header increases new account registrations and encourages more mobile users to contribute to the wikis. The experiment is currently live on Hindi, Indonesian, Bengali, Thai, and Hebrew Wikipedia, and targets 10% of logged-out mobile web users.
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:30}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:30|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, an issue where VisualEditor could get stuck loading on Windows devices with animations turned off, has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T382856]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* Starting later this week, {{int:group-abusefilter}} who have the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Extension:CodeMirror|{{int:codemirror-beta-feature-title}}]] beta feature enabled will have [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeMirror|CodeMirror]] instead of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:CodeEditor|CodeEditor]] as the editor at [[Special:AbuseFilter|Special:AbuseFilter]]. This is part of the broader effort to make the user experience more consistent across all editors. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T399673][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T419332]
* Tools and bots that access the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Notifications/API|Notifications API]] (&lt;bdi lang=&quot;zxx&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;action=query&amp;meta=notifications&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/bdi&gt;) will need to update their OAuth or BotPassword grants to also include access to private notifications. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T421991]
* Due to a library upgrade, listings on category pages may be displayed out of order starting on Monday, 20th April. A migration script will be run to correct this, and will take hours to days depending on the size of the wiki (up to a week for English Wikipedia). [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422544]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.24|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/16|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W16&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 15:19, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
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      <sha1>c4m9ci2mxhvv34x9c16hwllbutzh9z2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
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    <title>Template:2010-olympics</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>87112</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008709</id>
      <parentid>4591630</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:31:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. Translation links now handled by wikidata.</comment>
      <origin>5008709</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1299" sha1="37mfyk99e2osa8p6fjglrsqqrssyw7n" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games}}
[[Image:2010 Winter Olympics logo.svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Jon Lujan named United States flag bearer for 2014 Winter Paralympics opening ceremony]]
* [[Spaniard Jon Santacana wins downhill at 2013 IPC Alpine World Championships]]
* [[Wikinews interviews Australian blind Paralympic skier Melissa Perrine]]
* [[Olympic gold medalist Evan Lysacek gets hero's welcome in hometown]]
* [[Naperville, Illinois welcomes home Olympic silver medalist Molly Schaus]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[:Category:Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games|All articles in category]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Event infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>37mfyk99e2osa8p6fjglrsqqrssyw7n</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 1 (OLD)</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>99549</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008323</id>
      <parentid>5005257</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:01:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead1 with [[United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008323</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="528" sha1="gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On April 12, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008568</id>
      <parentid>5008323</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:16:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 1]] to [[Template:Lead article 1 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Possible problem caused by disabling FlaggedRevs on templates, per https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008323</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="528" sha1="gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On April 12, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008636</id>
      <parentid>5008568</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:31:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008636</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="544" sha1="3tnu3syam4f4fijlizlstx3otnbtab0" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On April 12, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3tnu3syam4f4fijlizlstx3otnbtab0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 2 (OLD)</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>99554</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008324</id>
      <parentid>5005249</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:01:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead2 with [[Supreme Court of Finland makes crimes against humanity convictions in landmark ruling]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008324</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1099" sha1="n0pkg8qf28ol5e7rrmpwhu4zpem3gpd" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Rainbow flag flapping in the wind.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = Supreme Court of Finland makes crimes against humanity convictions in landmark ruling
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = In a landmark ruling on March 26, the Supreme Court of Finland convicted Päivi Räsänen, a member of the Christian Democrats party in the Parliament of Finland and Juhana Pohjola, the bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Mission Diocese of Finland, as well as the Luther Foundation of Finland and the Evangelical Lutheran Mission Diocese of Finland of crimes against the humanity of gays and lesbians. The defendants were convicted under the section of the Criminal Code of Finland concerning crimes against humanity, over a pamphlet written by Räsänen, edited by Pohjola, and published by the Luther Foundation and the Evangelical Lutheran Mission Diocese that made claims about homosexuality that contradicted the consensus of the scientific community.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>n0pkg8qf28ol5e7rrmpwhu4zpem3gpd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008329</id>
      <parentid>5008324</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:14:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove retracted article</comment>
      <origin>5008329</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="611" sha1="7z08fcvn9dvacshg433rf6wfws9x8f7" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and {{w|Roberta Piket}} on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>7z08fcvn9dvacshg433rf6wfws9x8f7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008573</id>
      <parentid>5008329</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:18:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead2 with [[Australia grants refuge to five Iranian women's national soccer team players]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008573</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="550" sha1="teyu8ynw2db7foqyw1j5rwl6t8kijbn" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Zahra Ghanbari - 01.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = Australia grants refuge to five Iranian women's national soccer team players
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Early Tuesday morning, Australia government officials issued humanitarian visas to five members of Iran’s national women’s football team. The players refused to sing the Iranian anthem while at the Women's Asian Cup last week.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>teyu8ynw2db7foqyw1j5rwl6t8kijbn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008586</id>
      <parentid>5008573</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:38:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead2 with [[Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008586</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="605" sha1="ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and Roberta Piket on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008588</id>
      <parentid>5008586</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:41:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 2]] to [[Template:Lead article 2 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008586</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="605" sha1="ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and Roberta Piket on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008646</id>
      <parentid>5008588</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:37:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008646</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="621" sha1="qsp8nvr1i90s8lmqpaou5g9e2niwobh" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and Roberta Piket on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qsp8nvr1i90s8lmqpaou5g9e2niwobh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 3 (OLD)</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>99555</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008325</id>
      <parentid>5005250</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:01:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead3 with [[Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008325</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="611" sha1="pkn8a33kktpkfr5j57iaofn6tqdnpv0" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and {{w|Roberta Piket}} on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pkn8a33kktpkfr5j57iaofn6tqdnpv0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008330</id>
      <parentid>5008325</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:15:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>shuffle for retracted article</comment>
      <origin>5008330</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="793" sha1="g8p1w210vchjcrry31elrhdwo8yun2e" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, March 17, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>g8p1w210vchjcrry31elrhdwo8yun2e</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008574</id>
      <parentid>5008330</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:18:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead3 with [[Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008574</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="611" sha1="pkn8a33kktpkfr5j57iaofn6tqdnpv0" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and {{w|Roberta Piket}} on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pkn8a33kktpkfr5j57iaofn6tqdnpv0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008595</id>
      <parentid>5008574</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:44:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead3 with [[South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008595</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="783" sha1="mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008597</id>
      <parentid>5008595</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:45:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 3]] to [[Template:Lead article 3 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008595</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="783" sha1="mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008640</id>
      <parentid>5008597</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:35:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008640</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="799" sha1="p4ql2php4nighm8ymlq80ey7xs10hxa" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>p4ql2php4nighm8ymlq80ey7xs10hxa</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 4 (OLD)</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>99556</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008326</id>
      <parentid>5005251</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:01:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead4 with [[South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008326</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="793" sha1="1rce1ykzf61qb8fs5bfzgdg5acch3uo" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 4 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, March 17, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1rce1ykzf61qb8fs5bfzgdg5acch3uo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008331</id>
      <parentid>5008326</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:15:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>shuffle for retracted article</comment>
      <origin>5008331</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="523" sha1="mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 4 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Paul Thomas Anderson in 2025.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008575</id>
      <parentid>5008331</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:18:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead4 with [[South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008575</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="793" sha1="1rce1ykzf61qb8fs5bfzgdg5acch3uo" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 4 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, March 17, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1rce1ykzf61qb8fs5bfzgdg5acch3uo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008602</id>
      <parentid>5008575</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:47:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead4 with [[&quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008602</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="523" sha1="mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 4 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Paul Thomas Anderson in 2025.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008604</id>
      <parentid>5008602</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:48:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 4]] to [[Template:Lead article 4 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008602</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="523" sha1="mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 4 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Paul Thomas Anderson in 2025.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008641</id>
      <parentid>5008604</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:35:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008641</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="539" sha1="9xadenxsq7ooylyv3q2fzsc2b06qg7z" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 4 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Paul Thomas Anderson in 2025.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9xadenxsq7ooylyv3q2fzsc2b06qg7z</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 2 (OLD)</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>102331</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008589</id>
      <parentid>1085413</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:41:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template talk:Lead article 2]] to [[Template talk:Lead article 2 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>1085413</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2830" sha1="b6lf7lce9wtwldqfwuel7g6vl9nu6w1" xml:space="preserve">==Um==
Um. This headline seems biased to the uninformed reader in that it gives the impression the arrests were the result of a riot or violent activity. I think more information needs to be on this article. [[Special:Contributions/198.254.16.200|198.254.16.200]] 23:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
:It's been up for a while published and it'd be best not to change it at this point.  The article makes the intention of the protest pretty clear though. [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] - ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 02:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

------

I believe this would improve the lead, but it's locked:

The death of four soldiers Sunday from a roadside improvised explosive device has raised the number of American combat deaths in Iraq to 4,000. The milestone was reached just days after the fifth anniversary of the start of the war. [[User:judehaz|judehaz]] -- ([[User talk:judehaz|talk]])
:I changed it to your version, but I removed the word combat, since that was false, both in the original and your version. However, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 02:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

== Obama vs. Italy ==

Read the lead. -- [[Special:Contributions/65.190.141.92|65.190.141.92]] 21:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks, fixed by {{user|Markie}}. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 01:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Sony recall lead article verb agreement ==
Company names are generally considered singular nouns in English usage; thus, proper verb agreement requires &quot;Sony has&quot; instead of &quot;Sony have&quot; in the lead sentence. - [[User:John Darrow|John Darrow]] ([[User talk:John Darrow|talk]]) 03:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:{{done}}. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 06:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

==Spelling==
spelling error:&quot;All 2,500 runners in the Lake District's Original Mountain Marathon, a '''fell''' running event, were accounted for this afternoon. As previously reported, 1,700 runners had been missing.&quot;

It should be fall. [[User:Palmtree3000|Palmtree3000]] ([[User talk:Palmtree3000|talk]]) 02:14, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

: no, fell is the correct term here, used to describe a mountain/hill.  see [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fell Definition 5] --[[User:Markie|Mark]]&lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Markie|Talk to me]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:19, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

== [[Glenn Beck to hold controversial 'Restoring Honor' rally at Lincoln Memorial]] - event has been and gone, but you wouldn't know that from our main page... ==

Can someone please put another story up here to replace this one? The event was due to happen on Saturday; it's now 19:30 UTC Sunday and the front page is still referring to a past story in the future tense. [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]] ([[User talk:Bencherlite|talk]]) 19:32, 29 August 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b6lf7lce9wtwldqfwuel7g6vl9nu6w1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008638</id>
      <parentid>5008589</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:33:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008638</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2891" sha1="ab9f089kudl9qwr43ghly0u7idt67lo" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

:See also: [[Template talk:Lead article 2]]

==Um==
Um. This headline seems biased to the uninformed reader in that it gives the impression the arrests were the result of a riot or violent activity. I think more information needs to be on this article. [[Special:Contributions/198.254.16.200|198.254.16.200]] 23:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
:It's been up for a while published and it'd be best not to change it at this point.  The article makes the intention of the protest pretty clear though. [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] - ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 02:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

------

I believe this would improve the lead, but it's locked:

The death of four soldiers Sunday from a roadside improvised explosive device has raised the number of American combat deaths in Iraq to 4,000. The milestone was reached just days after the fifth anniversary of the start of the war. [[User:judehaz|judehaz]] -- ([[User talk:judehaz|talk]])
:I changed it to your version, but I removed the word combat, since that was false, both in the original and your version. However, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 02:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

== Obama vs. Italy ==

Read the lead. -- [[Special:Contributions/65.190.141.92|65.190.141.92]] 21:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks, fixed by {{user|Markie}}. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 01:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Sony recall lead article verb agreement ==
Company names are generally considered singular nouns in English usage; thus, proper verb agreement requires &quot;Sony has&quot; instead of &quot;Sony have&quot; in the lead sentence. - [[User:John Darrow|John Darrow]] ([[User talk:John Darrow|talk]]) 03:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:{{done}}. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 06:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

==Spelling==
spelling error:&quot;All 2,500 runners in the Lake District's Original Mountain Marathon, a '''fell''' running event, were accounted for this afternoon. As previously reported, 1,700 runners had been missing.&quot;

It should be fall. [[User:Palmtree3000|Palmtree3000]] ([[User talk:Palmtree3000|talk]]) 02:14, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

: no, fell is the correct term here, used to describe a mountain/hill.  see [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fell Definition 5] --[[User:Markie|Mark]]&lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Markie|Talk to me]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:19, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

== [[Glenn Beck to hold controversial 'Restoring Honor' rally at Lincoln Memorial]] - event has been and gone, but you wouldn't know that from our main page... ==

Can someone please put another story up here to replace this one? The event was due to happen on Saturday; it's now 19:30 UTC Sunday and the front page is still referring to a past story in the future tense. [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]] ([[User talk:Bencherlite|talk]]) 19:32, 29 August 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ab9f089kudl9qwr43ghly0u7idt67lo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 1 (OLD)</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>103324</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008569</id>
      <parentid>4867440</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:16:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template talk:Lead article 1]] to [[Template talk:Lead article 1 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Possible problem caused by disabling FlaggedRevs on templates, per https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>4867440</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3455" sha1="nyubdcmp5pe6cwxxro6fgzty5tjrlj6" xml:space="preserve">==19 April==
No disrespect but that Wikipedia threat thing is minor news. Can we make that 2nd/3rd/4th lead? Don't want to be arrogant either but I think our biggest story at the moment, a lead on CNN and SkyNews and on the front pages of S.A. Times, Reuters and BBC News, is [[Zimbabwe begins vote recount]].  &lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[w:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Harris Morgan|Harris Morgan]] ([[User talk:Harris Morgan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Harris Morgan|contribs]]) 18:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:UnsignedAuto --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;
:No prob. - {{done}} - Moved the Wikipedia/California threat story to Lead 4 and the Zimbabwe recount story here to Lead 1.  [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] - ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 18:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

== Wish ==

I wish there was a way to alter the width of the text without altering the width of the image. Vertical (portrait style) images become to big or the text is too narrow. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 23:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Spelling Mistake ==

In the lead it says &quot;Myanamar&quot; instead of &quot;Myanmar&quot;.

--[[User:NikNaks93|NikNaks93]] ([[User talk:NikNaks93|talk]]) 15:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

==Duplicate==
The gaza lead reads &quot;at least at least&quot;. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 18:36, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

== Headline ==

The word &quot;on&quot; should change to &quot;in&quot; to more objectivly deifne the fighting (&quot;on&quot; is the wording chosen by AlJazeera, while all other international media uses &quot;in&quot;). The fighting isn't for/on Gaza, but is taking place in/around Gaza.

The date in the lead about the surge in U.S markets states has an error in the day. It states the the rise occurred on Tuesday, when it actually occurred on Monday. The article itself also has this error.

[[Special:Contributions/216.208.235.22|216.208.235.22]] 22:12, 24 March 2009 (UTC)Phil

:Oops. Thanks for the heads-up, this error was due to time zone differences. I would fix it, but it's time to update the headlines anyway, so I'll change the story instead. Thanks. '''[[User:Tempodivalse|&lt;font color=&quot;#CC7722&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;♪''T''empo&lt;/font&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:Tempodivalse|&lt;font color=&quot;#00008B&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;di&lt;/font&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;papyrus&quot;&gt;''V''alse&amp;nbsp;♪&lt;/font&gt;]]''' 22:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== Nintendo  ==

Not showing up on ledes [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:39, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:39, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

== Soccer image is wrong ==

@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:13, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
: It's unfortunately a default image for &quot;sports&quot; I believe.  If you can find a better picture that is in Commons, I can replace it.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:06, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
::https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2024_AFC_U-17_Women%27s_Asian_Cup_map_of_teams.png
::@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 20:14, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
::: done.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:17, 3 July 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nyubdcmp5pe6cwxxro6fgzty5tjrlj6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008637</id>
      <parentid>5008569</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:32:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008637</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3471" sha1="rf2gp0z11uspdimi1o39hdihye1aiwy" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

==19 April==
No disrespect but that Wikipedia threat thing is minor news. Can we make that 2nd/3rd/4th lead? Don't want to be arrogant either but I think our biggest story at the moment, a lead on CNN and SkyNews and on the front pages of S.A. Times, Reuters and BBC News, is [[Zimbabwe begins vote recount]].  &lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[w:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Harris Morgan|Harris Morgan]] ([[User talk:Harris Morgan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Harris Morgan|contribs]]) 18:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:UnsignedAuto --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;
:No prob. - {{done}} - Moved the Wikipedia/California threat story to Lead 4 and the Zimbabwe recount story here to Lead 1.  [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] - ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 18:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

== Wish ==

I wish there was a way to alter the width of the text without altering the width of the image. Vertical (portrait style) images become to big or the text is too narrow. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 23:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Spelling Mistake ==

In the lead it says &quot;Myanamar&quot; instead of &quot;Myanmar&quot;.

--[[User:NikNaks93|NikNaks93]] ([[User talk:NikNaks93|talk]]) 15:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

==Duplicate==
The gaza lead reads &quot;at least at least&quot;. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 18:36, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

== Headline ==

The word &quot;on&quot; should change to &quot;in&quot; to more objectivly deifne the fighting (&quot;on&quot; is the wording chosen by AlJazeera, while all other international media uses &quot;in&quot;). The fighting isn't for/on Gaza, but is taking place in/around Gaza.

The date in the lead about the surge in U.S markets states has an error in the day. It states the the rise occurred on Tuesday, when it actually occurred on Monday. The article itself also has this error.

[[Special:Contributions/216.208.235.22|216.208.235.22]] 22:12, 24 March 2009 (UTC)Phil

:Oops. Thanks for the heads-up, this error was due to time zone differences. I would fix it, but it's time to update the headlines anyway, so I'll change the story instead. Thanks. '''[[User:Tempodivalse|&lt;font color=&quot;#CC7722&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;♪''T''empo&lt;/font&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:Tempodivalse|&lt;font color=&quot;#00008B&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;di&lt;/font&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;papyrus&quot;&gt;''V''alse&amp;nbsp;♪&lt;/font&gt;]]''' 22:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== Nintendo  ==

Not showing up on ledes [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:39, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:39, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

== Soccer image is wrong ==

@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:13, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
: It's unfortunately a default image for &quot;sports&quot; I believe.  If you can find a better picture that is in Commons, I can replace it.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:06, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
::https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2024_AFC_U-17_Women%27s_Asian_Cup_map_of_teams.png
::@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 20:14, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
::: done.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:17, 3 July 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rf2gp0z11uspdimi1o39hdihye1aiwy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008649</id>
      <parentid>5008637</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:38:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>see also</comment>
      <origin>5008649</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3516" sha1="tqyaq2slk060ou5t8g8ns04lvhpk4ks" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

:See also: [[Template talk:Lead article 1]]

==19 April==
No disrespect but that Wikipedia threat thing is minor news. Can we make that 2nd/3rd/4th lead? Don't want to be arrogant either but I think our biggest story at the moment, a lead on CNN and SkyNews and on the front pages of S.A. Times, Reuters and BBC News, is [[Zimbabwe begins vote recount]].  &lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[w:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Harris Morgan|Harris Morgan]] ([[User talk:Harris Morgan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Harris Morgan|contribs]]) 18:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:UnsignedAuto --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;
:No prob. - {{done}} - Moved the Wikipedia/California threat story to Lead 4 and the Zimbabwe recount story here to Lead 1.  [[User:Cirt|Cirt]] - ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 18:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

== Wish ==

I wish there was a way to alter the width of the text without altering the width of the image. Vertical (portrait style) images become to big or the text is too narrow. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 23:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Spelling Mistake ==

In the lead it says &quot;Myanamar&quot; instead of &quot;Myanmar&quot;.

--[[User:NikNaks93|NikNaks93]] ([[User talk:NikNaks93|talk]]) 15:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

==Duplicate==
The gaza lead reads &quot;at least at least&quot;. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 18:36, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

== Headline ==

The word &quot;on&quot; should change to &quot;in&quot; to more objectivly deifne the fighting (&quot;on&quot; is the wording chosen by AlJazeera, while all other international media uses &quot;in&quot;). The fighting isn't for/on Gaza, but is taking place in/around Gaza.

The date in the lead about the surge in U.S markets states has an error in the day. It states the the rise occurred on Tuesday, when it actually occurred on Monday. The article itself also has this error.

[[Special:Contributions/216.208.235.22|216.208.235.22]] 22:12, 24 March 2009 (UTC)Phil

:Oops. Thanks for the heads-up, this error was due to time zone differences. I would fix it, but it's time to update the headlines anyway, so I'll change the story instead. Thanks. '''[[User:Tempodivalse|&lt;font color=&quot;#CC7722&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;♪''T''empo&lt;/font&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:Tempodivalse|&lt;font color=&quot;#00008B&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;di&lt;/font&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;papyrus&quot;&gt;''V''alse&amp;nbsp;♪&lt;/font&gt;]]''' 22:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== Nintendo  ==

Not showing up on ledes [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:39, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:39, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

== Soccer image is wrong ==

@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:13, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
: It's unfortunately a default image for &quot;sports&quot; I believe.  If you can find a better picture that is in Commons, I can replace it.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:06, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
::https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2024_AFC_U-17_Women%27s_Asian_Cup_map_of_teams.png
::@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 20:14, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
::: done.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:17, 3 July 2025 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Dorival Caymmi, Brazilian singer and songwriter, dies aged 94</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>111579</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>move published template to bottom.</comment>
      <origin>5008700</origin>
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      <text bytes="2033" sha1="iorvqjic14hry94ch6wax4ifj1vnb0o" xml:space="preserve">{{date|August 16, 2008}}
{{Obituaries}}

[[w:Dorival Caymmi|Dorival Caymmi]], a popular [[Brazil]]ian singer and songwriter, has died today at the age of 94 at his Rio de Janeiro home. His death was caused by kidney cancer and multiple organ failures.

Caymmi wrote over one hundred songs in his lifetime. His song &quot;Das Rosas&quot; was translated into English as &quot;And Roses and Roses&quot; by the [[United States|American]] lyricist [[w:Ray Gilbert|Ray Gilbert]]. [[w:Associated Press|Associated Press]] has reported that his &quot;deep, velvety voice&quot; made Caymmi one of Brazil's most popular musicians. One of his most popular songs, &quot;O que e que a Baiana tem&quot; gained popularity after being performed by [[w:Carmen Miranda|Carmen Miranda]], who was a popular Brazilian samba singa and film star.

Also an actor, Caymmi performed in several film roles, his first being ''Joujoux e Balangandãs'' in 1939. He also starred in ''Pureza'', ''Abacaxi azul'', ''Estrela da Manhã'', ''Pluft'', ''o Fantasminha'', ''Garota de Ipanema'', ''The Sandpit Generals'' (an [[w:English language|English language]] film) and, most recently, ''Tenda dos Milagres''.  According to Maria Ferreira, a relative of Caymmi, the family is &quot;very shaken&quot; by his death. He is survived by his three children.

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources ==
*{{source
|url=http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iWUQxr6pEAU3zK63fpil1y2xVlUwD92JGHI8D
|title=Brazilian singer, songwriter Dorival Caymmi dies
|author=
|pub=Associated Press
|date=August 16, 2008}}
*{{source
|url=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0147303/
|title=Dorival Caymmi
|author=
|pub=IMDb
|date=Retrieved August 16, 2008}}
*{{source
|url=http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/ilustrada/ult90u434214.shtml
|title=Dorival Caymmi morre aos 94 anos no Rio 
|author=
|pub=Folha Online
|date=August 16, 2008}} border=&quot;2&quot; cellpadding=&quot;4&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; style=&quot;margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

[[pt:Morre o compositor Dorival Caymmi, aos 94 anos]]
{{publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 4 (OLD)</title>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:48:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template talk:Lead article 4]] to [[Template talk:Lead article 4 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="305" sha1="bph3fs5l6jhpdipadk458q380e8diqv" xml:space="preserve">==Nunavutospongia Irregulara==
&quot;Nunavutospongia Irregulara&quot; should be in italics, and &quot;Irregulara&quot; ought to have a lowercase initial. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 17:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
:{{done}}. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 17:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)</text>
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      <id>5008642</id>
      <parentid>5008605</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:36:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008642</origin>
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      <text bytes="366" sha1="m6jc3ga20c85wpqvw3ee2ufaxr6byje" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

:See also: [[Template talk:Lead article 4]]

==Nunavutospongia Irregulara==
&quot;Nunavutospongia Irregulara&quot; should be in italics, and &quot;Irregulara&quot; ought to have a lowercase initial. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 17:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
:{{done}}. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 17:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)</text>
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    <title>Template talk:Lead article 3 (OLD)</title>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template talk:Lead article 3]] to [[Template talk:Lead article 3 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
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      <text bytes="2063" sha1="naumv12ghpkw5px4gag9al973guzo5o" xml:space="preserve">&quot;US governments announcement&quot; should read &quot;US government's announcement&quot;--with apostrophe. [[User:Trevor328|Trevor328]] ([[User talk:Trevor328|talk]])
:{{tl|editprotected}}
&quot;aquired&quot; is not the correct spelling; it should be &quot;acquired&quot;.
[[User:John Darrow|John Darrow]] ([[User talk:John Darrow|talk]]) 20:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed.  [[User:Anonymous101|Anonymous101]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:Anonymous101|talk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 20:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

== title is wrong ==

The title should be changed from Nobel Prize to Nobel Memorial Prize, they are different.  There is no &quot;nobel prize&quot; for economics.  Alfred established prizes for five sciences, which did not include economics.  The prize for economics was established by the Bank of Sweden and is properly referred to as &quot;The Nobel Memorial Prize.&quot;  &lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[w:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/137.153.0.25|137.153.0.25]] ([[User talk:137.153.0.25|talk]]) 08:21, 15 October 2008 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:UnsignedIP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;

== change lead picture ==

[[File:FedEx_MD-11F_N586FE_Narita.jpg|thumb|180px|left]] Proposal to exchange lead picture with the one capturing MD 11 at Narita International Airport last December. [[User:Rien Satori|Rien Satori]] ([[User talk:Rien Satori|talk]]) 14:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:{{done}} &lt;span style=&quot;background:lavender&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Tempodivalse|&lt;font color=&quot;#CC7722&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;♪'''''T''empo&lt;/font&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;font color=&quot;#00008B&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;di&lt;/font&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;papyrus&quot;&gt;''V''alse'''&amp;nbsp;♪&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

== [[Iran hangs three suspects for mosque bombing, blames U.S. and Israel]] ==

{{tl|editprotected}}

&quot;the United States''',''' and Israel&quot; should not have a comma. --[[User:ReneJohnsen|ReneJohnsen]] ([[User talk:ReneJohnsen|talk]]) 23:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:{{done}} [[User:Tempodivalse|&lt;font face=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;'''Tempodivalse'''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Tempodivalse#top|&lt;font face=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;[talk]&lt;/font&gt;]] 23:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
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      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
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      <text bytes="2142" sha1="f68yqgr3okgoxfj36zf2g8rcjx0k9rr" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

:See also: [[Template talk:Lead article 3]]

== Correction == 
&quot;US governments announcement&quot; should read &quot;US government's announcement&quot;--with apostrophe. [[User:Trevor328|Trevor328]] ([[User talk:Trevor328|talk]])
:{{tl|editprotected}}
&quot;aquired&quot; is not the correct spelling; it should be &quot;acquired&quot;.
[[User:John Darrow|John Darrow]] ([[User talk:John Darrow|talk]]) 20:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed.  [[User:Anonymous101|Anonymous101]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:Anonymous101|talk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 20:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

== title is wrong ==

The title should be changed from Nobel Prize to Nobel Memorial Prize, they are different.  There is no &quot;nobel prize&quot; for economics.  Alfred established prizes for five sciences, which did not include economics.  The prize for economics was established by the Bank of Sweden and is properly referred to as &quot;The Nobel Memorial Prize.&quot;  &lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[w:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/137.153.0.25|137.153.0.25]] ([[User talk:137.153.0.25|talk]]) 08:21, 15 October 2008 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:UnsignedIP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;

== change lead picture ==

[[File:FedEx_MD-11F_N586FE_Narita.jpg|thumb|180px|left]] Proposal to exchange lead picture with the one capturing MD 11 at Narita International Airport last December. [[User:Rien Satori|Rien Satori]] ([[User talk:Rien Satori|talk]]) 14:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:{{done}} &lt;span style=&quot;background:lavender&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Tempodivalse|&lt;font color=&quot;#CC7722&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;♪'''''T''empo&lt;/font&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;font color=&quot;#00008B&quot; face=&quot;Papyrus&quot;&gt;di&lt;/font&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;papyrus&quot;&gt;''V''alse'''&amp;nbsp;♪&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

== [[Iran hangs three suspects for mosque bombing, blames U.S. and Israel]] ==

{{tl|editprotected}}

&quot;the United States''',''' and Israel&quot; should not have a comma. --[[User:ReneJohnsen|ReneJohnsen]] ([[User talk:ReneJohnsen|talk]]) 23:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:{{done}} [[User:Tempodivalse|&lt;font face=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;'''Tempodivalse'''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Tempodivalse#top|&lt;font face=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;[talk]&lt;/font&gt;]] 23:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Stock Market data</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
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      <contributor>
        <username>BOT-Superzerocool</username>
        <id>18821</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Bot: Update Market Data [[:es:User Talk:Superzerocool|Comments (es.wikinews)]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="1563" sha1="ai8wdv7offdu4t2igrjekgwrdxg85n8" xml:space="preserve">{{Stock Markets
| date = 15 April, 2026
| hour= 12:00
| extrainfo= {{{extrainfo|}}}
| align = {{{align}}}
| width= {{{width|{{#if:{{{width|}}}|50%|35%}}}}}}
| country= {{{country}}}
| IBEX 35 = #N/A
| IBEX 35-c = #N/A
| IBEX 35-p = #N/A
| IBEX 35-tl = {{loss}}
| FTSE 100 = 10628.35
| FTSE 100-c = 19.29
| FTSE 100-p = 0.18
| FTSE 100-tl = {{profit}}
| DAX = 24062.72
| DAX-c = 18.50
| DAX-p = 0.08
| DAX-tl = {{profit}}
| SMI = 13301.44
| SMI-c = 31.67
| SMI-p = 0.24
| SMI-tl = {{profit}}
| AEX = 1020.40
| AEX-c = 0.58
| AEX-p = 0.06
| AEX-tl = {{profit}}
| BEL20 = 5475.56
| BEL20-c = -10.35
| BEL20-p = -0.19
| BEL20-tl = {{loss}}
| OMX Stockholm 30 = 3143.74
| OMX Stockholm 30-c = 41.01
| OMX Stockholm 30-p = 1.32
| OMX Stockholm 30-tl = {{profit}}
| Nasdaq = 23639.08
| Nasdaq-c = 455.35
| Nasdaq-p = 1.96
| Nasdaq-tl = {{profit}}
| S&amp;P 500 = 6967.38
| S&amp;P 500-c = 81.14
| S&amp;P 500-p = 1.18
| S&amp;P 500-tl = {{profit}}
| Bovespa = 198657.33
| Bovespa-c = 656.63
| Bovespa-p = 0.33
| Bovespa-tl = {{profit}}
| All Ordinaries = 9181.10
| All Ordinaries-c = 16.00
| All Ordinaries-p = 0.17
| All Ordinaries-tl = {{profit}}
| Nikkei = 58134.24
| Nikkei-c = 256.85
| Nikkei-p = 0.44
| Nikkei-tl = {{profit}}
| Hang Seng = 25947.32
| Hang Seng-c = 75.00
| Hang Seng-p = 0.29
| Hang Seng-tl = {{profit}}
| BSE Sensex = 78111.24
| BSE Sensex-c = 1263.67
| BSE Sensex-p = 1.64
| BSE Sensex-tl = {{profit}}
| IDX Composite = 7623.59
| IDX Composite-c = -52.37
| IDX Composite-p = -0.68
| IDX Composite-tl = {{loss}}
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{clear}}{{documentation}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Bot: Update Market Data [[:es:User Talk:Superzerocool|Comments (es.wikinews)]]</comment>
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| date = 16 April, 2026
| hour= 00:00
| extrainfo= {{{extrainfo|}}}
| align = {{{align}}}
| width= {{{width|{{#if:{{{width|}}}|50%|35%}}}}}}
| country= {{{country}}}
| IBEX 35 = #N/A
| IBEX 35-c = #N/A
| IBEX 35-p = #N/A
| IBEX 35-tl = {{loss}}
| FTSE 100 = 10559.58
| FTSE 100-c = -49.48
| FTSE 100-p = -0.47
| FTSE 100-tl = {{loss}}
| DAX = 24066.70
| DAX-c = 22.48
| DAX-p = 0.09
| DAX-tl = {{profit}}
| SMI = 13219.58
| SMI-c = -50.19
| SMI-p = -0.38
| SMI-tl = {{loss}}
| AEX = 1015.57
| AEX-c = -4.25
| AEX-p = -0.42
| AEX-tl = {{loss}}
| BEL20 = 5475.16
| BEL20-c = -10.75
| BEL20-p = -0.20
| BEL20-tl = {{loss}}
| OMX Stockholm 30 = 3118.41
| OMX Stockholm 30-c = -12.79
| OMX Stockholm 30-p = -0.41
| OMX Stockholm 30-tl = {{loss}}
| Nasdaq = 24016.02
| Nasdaq-c = 376.93
| Nasdaq-p = 1.59
| Nasdaq-tl = {{profit}}
| S&amp;P 500 = 7022.95
| S&amp;P 500-c = 55.57
| S&amp;P 500-p = 0.80
| S&amp;P 500-tl = {{profit}}
| Bovespa = 197737.61
| Bovespa-c = -919.72
| Bovespa-p = -0.46
| Bovespa-tl = {{loss}}
| All Ordinaries = 9223.20
| All Ordinaries-c = 42.10
| All Ordinaries-p = 0.46
| All Ordinaries-tl = {{profit}}
| Nikkei = 58134.24
| Nikkei-c = 256.85
| Nikkei-p = 0.44
| Nikkei-tl = {{profit}}
| Hang Seng = 25947.32
| Hang Seng-c = 75.00
| Hang Seng-p = 0.29
| Hang Seng-tl = {{profit}}
| BSE Sensex = 78111.24
| BSE Sensex-c = 1263.67
| BSE Sensex-p = 1.64
| BSE Sensex-tl = {{profit}}
| IDX Composite = 7623.59
| IDX Composite-c = -52.37
| IDX Composite-p = -0.68
| IDX Composite-tl = {{loss}}
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Yemen horizontal</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
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      <parentid>4611626</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:31:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Yemen|[[image:LocationYemen.png|196px|A map showing the location of Yemen]]}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Other Yemen stories|
* [[Reports: 'streamlined' UK asylum process to replace interview with questionnaire for five nationalities]]
* [[Prisoner exchange in Yemen ends after freeing over 800]]
* [[Yemeni journalist Nabil Hasan al-Quaety shot dead in Aden]]
* [[Oil facilities in Saudi Arabia hit by drone attacks]]
* [[Iran's President Rouhani tells foreign powers to leave Persian Gulf]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Yemen|More...&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&gt;]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;

&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td align=&quot;right&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot; colspan=&quot;4&quot; style=&quot;background: #bce1ff;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Yemen|To write, edit, start or view other Yemen articles, see the Yemen Portal]] &amp;nbsp; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;noinclude&gt;
[[Category:Country infoboxes|{{PAGENAME}}]][[CAT:Yemen]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Disasters and accidents horizontal</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>115654</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008767</id>
      <parentid>4270523</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:01:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>replace DPL with static list</comment>
      <origin>5008767</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1323" sha1="5i1pv7rmawy020r43riccev80t68k3z" xml:space="preserve">&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; style=&quot;font-size: x-small;&quot;&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Other articles on Disasters and accidents|
[[File:Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg|right|150px|link=:Category:Disasters and accidents]]
*[[South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground]]
*[[Boats carrying Kyoto students capsize off Okinawa, fatalities reported]]
*[[Residents shelter in place for hours after gas leak outside of Los Angeles]]
*[[Mexican Navy medical plane with children transported for Michou and Mau Foundation crashes off Texas coast]]
*[[House fire triggers explosion in Salisbury, North Carolina]]
}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Disasters and accidents|More...&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;

&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td align=&quot;right&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot; colspan=&quot;4&quot; style=&quot;background: #bce1ff;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Disasters and accidents|To view other Disasters and accidents articles, see the Disasters and accidents Portal]] &amp;nbsp; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;noinclude&gt;
[[Category:Infoboxes|{{PAGENAME}}]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5i1pv7rmawy020r43riccev80t68k3z</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Burundi horizontal</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>115668</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008764</id>
      <parentid>4419508</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:53:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>replace DPL with static list</comment>
      <origin>5008764</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1308" sha1="rsmfyn3n28tivm8s2vv7dbgp4d21zw5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; style=&quot;font-size: x-small;&quot;&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Burundi|[[File:Burundi in its region.svg|196px|A map showing the location of Burundi]]}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Burundi|
*11 June 2020: [[Burundi President Pierre Nkurunziza dies aged 55]]
*3 January 2017: [[Gunman kills Burundi environment minister Emmanuel Niyonkuru]]
*9 September 2015: [[Rwandan Supreme Court agrees to hear case on allowing third presidential term]]
*26 January 2010: [[European Union offers to train Somali troops as fighting breaks out]]
*24 February 2009: [[AU peacekeepers killed in Somalia, Islamists vow more attacks]]
}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Burundi|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;

&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td align=&quot;right&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot; colspan=&quot;4&quot; style=&quot;background: #bce1ff;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Burundi|To view other Burundi articles, see the Burundi Portal]] &amp;nbsp; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;noinclude&gt;
[[Category:Infoboxes|{{PAGENAME}}]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rsmfyn3n28tivm8s2vv7dbgp4d21zw5</sha1>
    </revision>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Thailand horizontal</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>115672</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008523</id>
      <parentid>800380</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:19:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008523</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1271" sha1="pgqqeyymospa8tq1jv7kuq7nfanhbv6" xml:space="preserve">&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; style=&quot;font-size: x-small;&quot;&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Thailand|[[File:LocationThailand.png|196px|A map showing the location of Thailand]]}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Other Thailand stories|
* [[Thai officials seize 238 tons of illegal e-waste at Bangkok port]]
* [[Thailand's Ping River water levels reach record high in 50 years]]
* [[Russian travel writer Viktor Pinchuk recounts Southeast Asia expedition in Sevastopol, Crimea]]
* [[Australian cricketer Shane Warne dies aged 52]]
* [[Indian Prime Minister Modi attends 5th BIMSTEC summit virtually]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Thailand|More...&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&gt;]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;

&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td align=&quot;right&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot; colspan=&quot;4&quot; style=&quot;background: #bce1ff;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Thailand|To write, edit, start or view other Thailand articles, see the Thailand Portal]] &amp;nbsp; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;noinclude&gt;
[[Category:Country infoboxes|{{PAGENAME}}]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>pgqqeyymospa8tq1jv7kuq7nfanhbv6</sha1>
    </revision>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Crime and law horizontal</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>115673</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008766</id>
      <parentid>4519500</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:59:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>replace DPL with static list</comment>
      <origin>5008766</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1268" sha1="kgnfcu0fhxw6xbrno6i2mbbzyeonk5p" xml:space="preserve">&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; style=&quot;font-size: x-small;&quot;&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Other articles on Crime and Law|
[[Image:US Army CID agents at crime scene.jpg|right|150px|link=Category::Crime and law]]
*10 March 2026: [[Moreton Bay illegally evicted homeless campers, Queensland Supreme Court rules]]
*20 January 2026: [[Boy retrieves Nintendo Switch locked away in gun safe, and shoots his father]]
*7 January 2026: [[Homeland Security says Minneapolis woman shot by ICE officer dies]]
*5 January 2026: [[United States capture Venezuelan president, Nicolás Maduro]]
*27 December 2025: [[Knife and chemical attack at a factory in Japan]]
}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;[[Category:Crime and law|More...&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;

&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td align=&quot;right&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot; colspan=&quot;4&quot; style=&quot;background: #bce1ff;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Crime and law|To view other crime and law articles, see the Crime and Law category]] &amp;nbsp; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;noinclude&gt;
[[Category:Infoboxes|{{PAGENAME}}]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>kgnfcu0fhxw6xbrno6i2mbbzyeonk5p</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Wikinews talk:Wikinewsies</title>
    <ns>5</ns>
    <id>115759</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008721</id>
      <parentid>4748755</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:06:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael21107</username>
        <id>2866566</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Historical? */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008721</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="526" sha1="huzpfpxtfzvtvcceeky0iq4vgrvfomu" xml:space="preserve">== wikinewsie.org ==

http://wikinewsie.org/ does not work without javascript correctly, please fix it. Thanks! {{unsigned2|28 October 2008|87.78.23.227}}

== Historical? ==

This page was marked as historical by @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] in December 2025, after over four years without a proper edit. May I ask what's the reason for this mark? Is there, for example, a newer page, or is the term no longer used? [[User:Michael21107|Michael21107]] ([[User talk:Michael21107|talk]]) 01:06, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>huzpfpxtfzvtvcceeky0iq4vgrvfomu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008731</id>
      <parentid>5008721</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:40:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Historical? */ reply ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008731</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1420" sha1="liazi619nrpy304q9cyvef4bafceozg" xml:space="preserve">== wikinewsie.org ==

http://wikinewsie.org/ does not work without javascript correctly, please fix it. Thanks! {{unsigned2|28 October 2008|87.78.23.227}}

== Historical? ==

This page was marked as historical by @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] in December 2025, after over four years without a proper edit. May I ask what's the reason for this mark? Is there, for example, a newer page, or is the term no longer used? [[User:Michael21107|Michael21107]] ([[User talk:Michael21107|talk]]) 01:06, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: The page has not been updated in years. The linked lists are also outdated and some of those have also been marked as historical:
: 
:* [[Wikinews:Global Networking]] was marked as ‘historical’ in 2020.
:* [[Wikinews:User directory]] was marked as 'historical' in 2024.
: 
: I’m not aware of a newer page. 
: And with the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]], all pages will soon essentially become ''historical''. 
: We are [[Wikinews:2026 Wind-down Wikinews|winding down the project]] now while some are working on a [[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts|hail mary]]. You are welcome to contribute to either or both efforts.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:40, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>liazi619nrpy304q9cyvef4bafceozg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008732</id>
      <parentid>5008731</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:41:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* Historical? */ edit reply typo ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008732</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1424" sha1="3czjb5fj1c54zgmpwgeti8yrkgveidy" xml:space="preserve">== wikinewsie.org ==

http://wikinewsie.org/ does not work without javascript correctly, please fix it. Thanks! {{unsigned2|28 October 2008|87.78.23.227}}

== Historical? ==

This page was marked as historical by @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] in December 2025, after over four years without a proper edit. May I ask what's the reason for this mark? Is there, for example, a newer page, or is the term no longer used? [[User:Michael21107|Michael21107]] ([[User talk:Michael21107|talk]]) 01:06, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: The page has not been updated in years. The linked lists are also outdated and some of those have also been marked as historical:
: 
:* [[Wikinews:Global Networking]] was marked as ‘historical’ in 2020.
:* [[Wikinews:User directory]] was marked as 'historical' in 2021.
: 
: I’m not aware of a newer page. &lt;br&gt; And with the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]], all pages will soon essentially become ''historical''. &lt;br&gt; We are [[Wikinews:2026 Wind-down Wikinews|winding down the project]] now while some are working on a [[m:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts|hail mary]]. You are welcome to contribute to either or both efforts.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:40, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3czjb5fj1c54zgmpwgeti8yrkgveidy</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Pakistan-h</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>116670</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008448</id>
      <parentid>4613911</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:27:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008448</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2009" sha1="c6eicuv3w2vx8ci15wyvek0x1gwanh4" xml:space="preserve">&lt;table align=&quot;center&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; style=&quot;border: 0px solid black; margin: 0px auto; padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; min-width: 50%;&quot;&gt;

&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td align=&quot;left&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot;&gt;

&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; align=&quot;left&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;
&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot;&gt;[[File:Top-left-corner.png]]&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: center; min-width: 100px; background: #7ec9fd; font-weight: bold;&quot;&gt;[[w:Pakistan|Islamic Republic of Pakistan]] - اسلامی جمہوریہ پاکستان&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot;&gt;[[File:Top-right-corner.png]]&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;

&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;

&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; style=&quot;border: 1px solid #7ec9fd;&quot;&gt;

&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; style=&quot;font-size: x-small;&quot;&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Location of Pakistan|[[File:LocationPakistan.png|196px|A map showing the location of Pakistan]]}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=Other Pakistani stories|
* [[Flash flooding, landslides in Pakistan leave hundreds dead]]
* [[India defeats New Zealand to win 2025 Champions Trophy]]
* [[United States Coast Guard: Possible human remains in debris from imploded Titan submersible]]
* [[More than 100 killed in mosque bombing in Pakistan]]
* [[Pakistan reverses block on Wikimedia projects, including Wikipedia]]}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Pakistan/Articles|More articles here]]&lt;/div style&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;

&lt;td valign=&quot;top&quot; style=&quot;text-align: left;&quot;&gt;
{{Infosection|name=&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;}}
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;

&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td align=&quot;right&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot; colspan=&quot;4&quot; style=&quot;background: #bce1ff;&quot;&gt;[[Portal:Pakistan|To write, edit, start or view other Pakistan articles, see the Pakistan Portal]] &amp;nbsp; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;

&lt;/table&gt;
[[Category:Pakistan|*]]
&lt;noinclude&gt;
[[Category:Country infoboxes|Pakistan]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>c6eicuv3w2vx8ci15wyvek0x1gwanh4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Turks and Caicos Islands</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>123431</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008531</id>
      <parentid>4596413</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:22:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008531</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1101" sha1="a48w3eu8wlz73tnjt6uj33uh20ksjcj" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=Turks and Caicos Islands}}
[[Image:Turks and Caicos Islands on the globe (Americas centered).svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Hurricane Fiona batters parts of Caribbean]]
* [[Haitian migrants drown and many more still missing]]
* [[UK assumes direct rule over the Turks and Caicos Islands]]
* [[Turks and Caicos Islands Premier resigns]]
* [[Prisoner abuse, serious corruption may have occurred in Turks and Caicos Islands]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Turks and Caicos Islands.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Turks and Caicos Islands]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]

&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>a48w3eu8wlz73tnjt6uj33uh20ksjcj</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 5 (OLD)</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>140066</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008327</id>
      <parentid>5005252</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:01:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead5 with [[&quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008327</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="523" sha1="6a9afwystlr8iwvp7xg96355x6kmd2g" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Paul Thomas Anderson in 2025.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6a9afwystlr8iwvp7xg96355x6kmd2g</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008332</id>
      <parentid>5008327</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:15:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead5 with [[Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008332</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="599" sha1="4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Caloundra FC kick off versus Pine Hills.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Caloundra have won their round 3 Football Queensland Premier League 2 game against Pine Hills 5 goals to 2 at Meridan Plains, Queensland, Australia on Sunday.&quot; Two [wins] from three [games]&quot; said Caloundra captain Kaine Frew.&quot;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008576</id>
      <parentid>5008332</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:18:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead5 with [[&quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
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 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Paul Thomas Anderson in 2025.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6a9afwystlr8iwvp7xg96355x6kmd2g</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008612</id>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:51:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead5 with [[Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
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 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Caloundra FC kick off versus Pine Hills.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Caloundra have won their round 3 Football Queensland Premier League 2 game against Pine Hills 5 goals to 2 at Meridan Plains, Queensland, Australia on Sunday.&quot; Two [wins] from three [games]&quot; said Caloundra captain Kaine Frew.&quot;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008614</id>
      <parentid>5008612</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:52:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 5]] to [[Template:Lead article 5 (OLD)]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
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 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Caloundra FC kick off versus Pine Hills.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Caloundra have won their round 3 Football Queensland Premier League 2 game against Pine Hills 5 goals to 2 at Meridan Plains, Queensland, Australia on Sunday.&quot; Two [wins] from three [games]&quot; said Caloundra captain Kaine Frew.&quot;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008645</id>
      <parentid>5008614</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:36:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008645</origin>
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      <text bytes="615" sha1="n5me9bg5pwo00vndmxfmd6fdgc5m4dr" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Caloundra FC kick off versus Pine Hills.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Caloundra have won their round 3 Football Queensland Premier League 2 game against Pine Hills 5 goals to 2 at Meridan Plains, Queensland, Australia on Sunday.&quot; Two [wins] from three [games]&quot; said Caloundra captain Kaine Frew.&quot;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>n5me9bg5pwo00vndmxfmd6fdgc5m4dr</sha1>
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One page archive: [[User talk:Gryllida/Archive]]; &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gryllida&amp;oldid=4531592 Discussions made in 2019 (old revision)]&lt;/span&gt;.

== BOM ==

I've spent all of 20 seconds looking at that -- why would that not be stale at this time??--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) [[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 14:01, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:There was more information obtained from a source recently. Talk page and scoop has details. Published sources do not have it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:58, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
:For the record it was subsequently deleted as stale, and I have no plans to obtain new information about that event at this time. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:59, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Stevie Young of AC/DC ==

I'm not planning to do anything more with [[AC/DC guitarist Stevie Young admitted to hospital in Buenos Aires, spokesperson says]], but I wanted to let you know that according to https://ultimateclassicrock.com/ac-dc-stage-return/ he has returned to performing with the band after being released from the hospital. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:30, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

:Good to hear. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:44, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Central discussion page on Meta-Wiki ==

I think it's now time to create a central page on Meta-Wiki for discussions related to the migration of Wikinews and its different language editions. Would you like to start that page and also notify the Russian Wikinews community about it? [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 10:09, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

:Russian Wikinews already knows snd got a thread about it in their forum. I do not think I have the capacity to open discussion at Meta, sorry, I am needing some sleep right now. I am hoping someone does it within next few hours, if not, then I will write something. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: Sure. I am suggesting a central place so that, even after Wikinews becomes read-only, we can continue our discussions on Meta about what needs to be done next. [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 10:31, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: I have started a Meta page for a central discussion about the migration, including participation from other language editions of Wikinews. This will also allow discussions to continue after the Wikinews sites become read-only on May 4. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 14:59, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Link? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:54, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::::[[meta:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]] [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 05:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thank you, [[User:Asked42|Asked42]]. I left a few comment there but I was not able to follow all discussions. If my help is needed for migration please let me know, I can help with sysadmin or sysop tasks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:58, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Sure thing @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]. I am very sure we are going to need your help for the migration in a significant way. As one of the active bureaucrats, I assume you will need to create the site creation task and handle further configuration after the wiki has been migrated. I assume I can reach you on Telegram or email? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 17:00, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Reviewing my very first ever Wikinews article ==

Would you mind reviewing [[Supreme Court of Finland convicts Christians of crimes against the humanity of gays and lesbians in a landmark ruling|my very first ever Wikinews article]], since the previous reviewer was unable to complete reviewing it? Thank you so much in advance! [[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]] ([[User talk:Justthefacts|talk]]) 17:42, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]] 
:1. That review was completed. I revised the page and re-submitted for review.
:2. I posted [[Wikinews:Water_cooler/proposals#Proposal_to_cease_publishing_after_around_April_14|this]].
:Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 08:13, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]], will you be reviewing the article? [[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]] ([[User talk:Justthefacts|talk]]) 16:34, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I restored my previous edits and resubmitted for review. It's stale but they might make an exception. It's worth a try. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 23:31, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
::::i published it, it looks a lot better than the previous version and it checks out well against the sources. thanks to you both for the revision. @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] and @[[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]]. regards [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:34, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thank you so much, I am so glad we were able to see this through. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 01:38, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Thank you to @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] and @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] as well as @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] and @[[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]]! I put a lot of work into the article, so I'm very happy to see it published! [[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]] ([[User talk:Justthefacts|talk]]) 20:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::::For the record, the article was retracted due to inaccuracies with describing what occurred. Legal issue was outside of my vocabulary and I made a judgment to publish it, and after it was published, it was retracted. This is a normal process for a journalism site (though attempts are usually made to prevent publishing of inaccurate content, this is not always possible on smaller wikis like this where no reviewer has expertise in this area and I as a volunteer did not exercise sufficient caution to cross check, which I should have). I am now reducing my activity level to become available for migration tasks, if required; I would hope that [[User:RhinosF1|RhinosF1]] has a comment whether the migration can occur before or only after the closure date. Once a migration is completed then I may be able to resume my participation with content review. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:57, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Sighting changes ==

I am working through the list of unsighted changes ahead of the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. A number of these edits appear to be yours and relate to the use of a script that marked articles as ‘archived’ without bringing them into compliance with [[Wikinews:Archive conventions]]. Some also appear to have left routine changes (such as protection updates) unsighted.

Could you review these and bring them into compliance where needed? It would also be helpful if you could revisit the articles in [[:Category:Archived by Gryllida]] and complete the [[Wikinews:Archive conventions|archiving process]] where applicable.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

:I don't think it will be worth of my time. It is better if someone else does it. I do not have the energy to negotiate what the 'correct' requirements are. The only thing I would be able to do is to edit protect them. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:12, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
:For your reference, I may be able to help with tasks which are not that controversial. If you would like me to do something specific, please let me know, I am happy to assist. I decided not to review or write new articles after this day and for the next few weeks until migration is completed (if and when it is) as then my free time becomes available for efforts related with the change of the host. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:00, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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One page archive: [[User talk:Gryllida/Archive]]; &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gryllida&amp;oldid=4531592 Discussions made in 2019 (old revision)]&lt;/span&gt;.

== BOM ==

I've spent all of 20 seconds looking at that -- why would that not be stale at this time??--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) [[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 14:01, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:There was more information obtained from a source recently. Talk page and scoop has details. Published sources do not have it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:58, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
:For the record it was subsequently deleted as stale, and I have no plans to obtain new information about that event at this time. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:59, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Stevie Young of AC/DC ==

I'm not planning to do anything more with [[AC/DC guitarist Stevie Young admitted to hospital in Buenos Aires, spokesperson says]], but I wanted to let you know that according to https://ultimateclassicrock.com/ac-dc-stage-return/ he has returned to performing with the band after being released from the hospital. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 13:30, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

:Good to hear. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:44, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Central discussion page on Meta-Wiki ==

I think it's now time to create a central page on Meta-Wiki for discussions related to the migration of Wikinews and its different language editions. Would you like to start that page and also notify the Russian Wikinews community about it? [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 10:09, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

:Russian Wikinews already knows snd got a thread about it in their forum. I do not think I have the capacity to open discussion at Meta, sorry, I am needing some sleep right now. I am hoping someone does it within next few hours, if not, then I will write something. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: Sure. I am suggesting a central place so that, even after Wikinews becomes read-only, we can continue our discussions on Meta about what needs to be done next. [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 10:31, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: I have started a Meta page for a central discussion about the migration, including participation from other language editions of Wikinews. This will also allow discussions to continue after the Wikinews sites become read-only on May 4. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 14:59, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Link? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:54, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
::::[[meta:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]] [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 05:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thank you, [[User:Asked42|Asked42]]. I left a few comment there but I was not able to follow all discussions. If my help is needed for migration please let me know, I can help with sysadmin or sysop tasks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:58, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Sure thing @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]. I am very sure we are going to need your help for the migration in a significant way. As one of the active bureaucrats, I assume you will need to create the site creation task and handle further configuration after the wiki has been migrated. I assume I can reach you on Telegram or email? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 17:00, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Reviewing my very first ever Wikinews article ==

Would you mind reviewing [[Supreme Court of Finland convicts Christians of crimes against the humanity of gays and lesbians in a landmark ruling|my very first ever Wikinews article]], since the previous reviewer was unable to complete reviewing it? Thank you so much in advance! [[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]] ([[User talk:Justthefacts|talk]]) 17:42, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]] 
:1. That review was completed. I revised the page and re-submitted for review.
:2. I posted [[Wikinews:Water_cooler/proposals#Proposal_to_cease_publishing_after_around_April_14|this]].
:Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 08:13, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]], will you be reviewing the article? [[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]] ([[User talk:Justthefacts|talk]]) 16:34, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I restored my previous edits and resubmitted for review. It's stale but they might make an exception. It's worth a try. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 23:31, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
::::i published it, it looks a lot better than the previous version and it checks out well against the sources. thanks to you both for the revision. @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] and @[[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]]. regards [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:34, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thank you so much, I am so glad we were able to see this through. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 01:38, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Thank you to @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] and @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] as well as @[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] and @[[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]]! I put a lot of work into the article, so I'm very happy to see it published! [[User:Justthefacts|Justthefacts]] ([[User talk:Justthefacts|talk]]) 20:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::::For the record, the article was retracted due to inaccuracies with describing what occurred. Legal issue was outside of my vocabulary and I made a judgment to publish it, and after it was published, it was retracted. This is a normal process for a journalism site (though attempts are usually made to prevent publishing of inaccurate content, this is not always possible on smaller wikis like this where no reviewer has expertise in this area and I as a volunteer did not exercise sufficient caution to cross check, which I should have). I am now reducing my activity level to become available for migration tasks, if required; I would hope that [[User:RhinosF1|RhinosF1]] has a comment whether the migration can occur before or only after the closure date. Once a migration is completed then I may be able to resume my participation with content review. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:57, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::::I wouldn't want to commit to any specific timeline while discussions are ongoing. Once we have a timeline to announce to the community, I'm sure one will be sent out. I expect things to start to become clear over the next week or so. [[User:RhinosF1|RhinosF1]] ([[User talk:RhinosF1|talk]]) 07:01, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

== Sighting changes ==

I am working through the list of unsighted changes ahead of the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]. A number of these edits appear to be yours and relate to the use of a script that marked articles as ‘archived’ without bringing them into compliance with [[Wikinews:Archive conventions]]. Some also appear to have left routine changes (such as protection updates) unsighted.

Could you review these and bring them into compliance where needed? It would also be helpful if you could revisit the articles in [[:Category:Archived by Gryllida]] and complete the [[Wikinews:Archive conventions|archiving process]] where applicable.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 12:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

:I don't think it will be worth of my time. It is better if someone else does it. I do not have the energy to negotiate what the 'correct' requirements are. The only thing I would be able to do is to edit protect them. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:12, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
:For your reference, I may be able to help with tasks which are not that controversial. If you would like me to do something specific, please let me know, I am happy to assist. I decided not to review or write new articles after this day and for the next few weeks until migration is completed (if and when it is) as then my free time becomes available for efforts related with the change of the host. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:00, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>czfxmwf5m3vxj3ms3naqoij94hsxfs7</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Northern Ireland loyalist group lays down arms</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="3856" sha1="qkwr5twfdu0xz0firf3d2t3jqr0pucb" xml:space="preserve">{{date|January 7, 2010}}
{{United Kingdom}}
The {{w|Ulster Defense Association}} (UDA), a paramilitary group in [[Northern Ireland]] that wants Northern Ireland to remain in the [[United Kingdom]], said today that it has rid itself of its weapons.

A statement by the group read, &quot;The Ulster Defense Association was formed to defend our communities. We state quite clearly and categorically that this responsibility now rests with the government and its institutions where legitimacy resides.&quot;

UDA spokesperson Frankie Gallagher spoke at a press conference in [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]], stating that the group regrets the approximately 400 people, primarily Catholic civilians, that they were responsible for the murder of between 1971 and 2001. He added, &quot;But we are determined and are willing to play our full part in ensuring that tragedy of the last 40 years will never happen again.&quot;

The destruction of ammunition and explosives was verified by the {{w|Independent International Commission on Decommissioning}}, stating that other groups have a deadline of February 9 to destroy arms they may still hold, after which they may potentially face imprisonment. 

[[Ireland]]'s {{w|Minister for Foreign Affairs (Ireland)|Foreign Affairs Minister}}, [[Micheál Martin]], said in a statement, &quot;This is a statement of confidence in the political process and in the devolved institutions.  Another obstacle to dialogue and partnership has been removed.&quot; 

{{w|Irish President}} {{w|Mary McAleese}} said the group's choice was &quot;a very positive milestone on the journey of peace.&quot;

The other main &quot;loyalist&quot; groups, the {{w|Ulster Volunteer Force}} (UVF) and {{w|Red Hand Commandos}} (RHC), are reported to have destroyed their arms last June, with the [[IRA|Irish Republican Army]] (IRA) having destroyed their arms four years ago.

However, two republican splinter groups, the {{w|Continuity Irish Republican Army}} (CIRA) and the {{w|Real Irish Republican Army}} (RIRA), have refused to lay down their arms and have continued to undertake attacks including three murders in March of 2009. 

The Real IRA {{w|2009 Massereene Barracks shooting|attacked the Massereene Barracks}} in Antrim, County Antrim on March 7 and killed two British soldiers. Three days later, The Continuity IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of Police Service of Northern Ireland officer Stephen Carroll, who was shot by a sniper responding to a call.

There is also concern that the power-sharing government between {{w|Sinn Féin}} and the {{w|Democratic Unionist Party}} may collapse because of disagreements between the parties on the issue of transferring policing and justice powers from [[London]].

{{haveyoursay}}

== Sources ==
*{{source|url=http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5091587,00.html|title=Northern Irish loyalist group disarms|author=|pub=Deutsche Welle|date=January 6, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hv9IEu7BFnrX5xi-fa-viPOnzStQ|title=Northern Ireland's outlawed Ulster Defence Association says it has fully disarmed|author=Shawn Pogatchnik|pub=The Canadian Press|date=January 6, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6052EZ20100106|title=Northern Irish militants disarm, dissident threat remains|author=Andras Gergely|pub=Reuters|date=January 6, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/paramilitary-uda-disarms-northern-ireland|title=Paramilitary UDA disarms in Northern Ireland|author=|pub=Radio Netherlands Worldwide|date=January 6, 2010}}

{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}

[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Police Service of Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Ireland]]
[[Category:Provisional IRA]]
[[Category:Micheál Martin]]
[[Category:Democratic Unionist Party]]</text>
      <sha1>qkwr5twfdu0xz0firf3d2t3jqr0pucb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008654</id>
      <parentid>5008652</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:49:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
      <origin>5008654</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3895" sha1="7ynjkfo8kmlmsriw60vv81shv73rz2f" xml:space="preserve">{{date|January 7, 2010}}
{{United Kingdom}}
The {{w|Ulster Defense Association}} (UDA), a paramilitary group in [[Northern Ireland]] that wants Northern Ireland to remain in the [[United Kingdom]], said today that it has rid itself of its weapons.

A statement by the group read, &quot;The Ulster Defense Association was formed to defend our communities. We state quite clearly and categorically that this responsibility now rests with the government and its institutions where legitimacy resides.&quot;

UDA spokesperson Frankie Gallagher spoke at a press conference in [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]], stating that the group regrets the approximately 400 people, primarily Catholic civilians, that they were responsible for the murder of between 1971 and 2001. He added, &quot;But we are determined and are willing to play our full part in ensuring that tragedy of the last 40 years will never happen again.&quot;

The destruction of ammunition and explosives was verified by the {{w|Independent International Commission on Decommissioning}}, stating that other groups have a deadline of February 9 to destroy arms they may still hold, after which they may potentially face imprisonment. 

[[Ireland]]'s {{w|Minister for Foreign Affairs (Ireland)|Foreign Affairs Minister}}, [[Micheál Martin]], said in a statement, &quot;This is a statement of confidence in the political process and in the devolved institutions.  Another obstacle to dialogue and partnership has been removed.&quot; 

{{w|Irish President}} {{w|Mary McAleese}} said the group's choice was &quot;a very positive milestone on the journey of peace.&quot;

The other main &quot;loyalist&quot; groups, the {{w|Ulster Volunteer Force}} (UVF) and {{w|Red Hand Commandos}} (RHC), are reported to have destroyed their arms last June, with the [[IRA|Irish Republican Army]] (IRA) having destroyed their arms four years ago.

However, two republican splinter groups, the {{w|Continuity Irish Republican Army}} (CIRA) and the {{w|Real Irish Republican Army}} (RIRA), have refused to lay down their arms and have continued to undertake attacks including three murders in March of 2009. 

The Real IRA {{w|2009 Massereene Barracks shooting|attacked the Massereene Barracks}} in Antrim, County Antrim on March 7 and killed two British soldiers. Three days later, The Continuity IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of Police Service of Northern Ireland officer Stephen Carroll, who was shot by a sniper responding to a call.

There is also concern that the power-sharing government between {{w|Sinn Féin}} and the {{w|Democratic Unionist Party}} may collapse because of disagreements between the parties on the issue of transferring policing and justice powers from [[London]].

{{haveyoursay}}

== Sources ==
*{{source|url=http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5091587,00.html|title=Northern Irish loyalist group disarms|author=|pub=Deutsche Welle|date=January 6, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hv9IEu7BFnrX5xi-fa-viPOnzStQ|title=Northern Ireland's outlawed Ulster Defence Association says it has fully disarmed|author=Shawn Pogatchnik|pub=The Canadian Press|date=January 6, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6052EZ20100106|title=Northern Irish militants disarm, dissident threat remains|author=Andras Gergely|pub=Reuters|date=January 6, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/paramilitary-uda-disarms-northern-ireland|title=Paramilitary UDA disarms in Northern Ireland|author=|pub=Radio Netherlands Worldwide|date=January 6, 2010}}

{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}

[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Police Service of Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Ireland]]
[[Category:Provisional IRA]]
[[Category:Micheál Martin]]
[[Category:Democratic Unionist Party]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Bomb left outside police station in Northern Ireland</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>191963</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008653</id>
      <parentid>4814692</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:48:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
      <origin>5008653</origin>
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      <text bytes="4233" sha1="b28zu3g1v5gpvd02kn7kslix1gcstvi" xml:space="preserve">{{date|June 20, 2010}}
{{United Kingdom}}
&lt;div style=&quot;float:left; position: relative;&quot;&gt;
[[File:Northern Ireland map - July 2007.png|thumb|left]]
{{Image label|x=0.43 |y=0.52|scale=200|text=[[File:Red pog.svg|8px|link=|alt=]]}}
&lt;/div&gt;
An explosive device was left inside a van parked outside a local police station in the small village of {{w|Aughnacloy, County Tyrone|Aughnacloy}}, {{w|County Tyrone}} in [[Northern Ireland]]. Army experts carried out a controlled explosion and have been examining the vehicle since. The van was left at about 10:00pm local time on Thursday night. 

Police from the area have confirmed that around 350 residents in the area were evacuated and spent the night in three community halls. Since the report Aughnacloy is partially open and the {{w|A5 road (Northern Ireland)|A5 road}} is accessible, although there is little access into Aughnacloy itself.

The alert was raised during a telephone call to a newspaper office in [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]]. The caller used a recognised codeword and informed the newspaper the bomb will be detonated in an hour, which triggered an automatic response from police officers. {{w|Democratic Unionist Party}} councillor Sammy Brush said the evacuation seemed &quot;fairly well organised&quot; and there was &quot;no panic&quot;, but it had to be completed within an hour to ensure the bomb could be safely disarmed and removed.

The bomb is thought to have been left by {{w|Dissident republican|Dissident Republicans}}, which have been responsible for other similar attacks on official buildings this year. The bomb was left in an unmarked white Ford Transit van, which witnesses reported had the engine left running. The detonation device was believed to have been triggered, but the 300lb worth of explosives had failed to detonate. Brain Kee, the Aughnacloy {{w|PSNI}} Superintendent said, &quot;If it had detonated it would have caused widespread devastation in the village and it's very likely that lives would have been lost.&quot;

{{w|Tom Elliott}}, {{w|Ulster Unionist Party}} MLA for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, described the event as &quot;deeply distressing.&quot; He went on to say that &quot;this was an apparently large and viable device, which was planted with just an hour's warning, is deeply saddening for those who are committed to a peaceful future&quot; and that such incidents were &quot;becoming a familiar feature of life in Northern Ireland once again&quot;.  {{w|Michelle Gildernew}}, {{w|Sinn Fein}} MP for {{w|Fermanagh and South Tyrone (UK Parliament constituency)|Fermanagh and South Tyrone}}, said those responsible for this act should &quot;seriously reflect on what they are doing&quot; and &quot;[t]heir actions are no part of a campaign to bring about Irish unity and they have little or no popular support&quot;.

A car, thought to have been used for the get-away, has been found burnt out just over the border in the {{w|Republic of Ireland}}. Mr Kee and the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs [[Micheál Martin]] have asked for any witnesses to contact the {{w|Gardai}} or the PSNI immediately.

{{haveyoursay}}

== Sources ==
*{{source|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/18/bomb-northern-ireland-police-station
|title=Bomb left outside Northern Ireland police station
|author=Henry McDonald
|pub=Guardian.co.uk
|date=18 June 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.u.tv/News/300lb-bomb-caused-Aughnacloy-alert/32056246-d341-4b29-94f4-1c30b3d3d3cc
|title=300lb bomb caused Aughnacloy alert
|author=UTV News
|pub=UTV Live
|date=18 June 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/7837888/300lb-bomb-left-outside-Northern-Ireland-police-station.html
|title=300lb bomb left outside Northern Ireland police station
|author=Telegraph
|pub=The Daily Telegraph
|date= 18 June 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/10347051.stm
|title=300lb van bomb at Aughnacloy police station
|author=BBC News
|pub=BBC News Online
|date=18 June 2010}}

{{Publish}}

[[Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:Police Service of Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Ireland]]
[[Category:Micheál Martin]]
[[Category:Democratic Unionist Party]]

{{Archived-cc-2.5}}</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>British snooker player Alex Higgins found dead at age 61</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>197073</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008655</id>
      <parentid>4815012</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:50:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
      <origin>5008655</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3737" sha1="qzkk3o5j83g5y4eap3awsqk7pbivk0l" xml:space="preserve">{{date|July 26, 2010}}
{{Obituaries}}
[[Image:Alexhiggins2008.jpg|thumb|left|150px|{{w|Alex Higgins}} in 2008. {{Image credit|[[commons:User:Bigpad|User:Bigpad]]}}]]
[[Snooker]] player {{w|Alex Higgins}}, nicknamed &quot;Hurricane&quot;, was found dead in his apartment in Donegall Road, [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]], [[Northern Ireland]] on Saturday. He was aged 61 and had been suffering from {{w|throat cancer}} since 1997.

Born in Belfast on March 18, 1949, Higgins became the champion of the {{w|World Snooker Championship}} at the age of 23 in 1972. He reached the same achievement again in 1982. Higgins' final title victory was in the {{w|Irish Professional Championship}} in 1989.

During 1986, he received a fine and was banned from five tournaments after headbutting a director of a tournament. He was also banned from playing for one year in 1990 after threatening to have {{w|Dennis Taylor}}, another snooker player, shot.

Recently, Higgins lost all his teeth as the result of having treatment for his cancer. In May 2010, a charity dinner took place in {{w|Manchester}}, {{w|England}} that raised approximately {{w|Pound sterling|£}}20,000 ({{w|United States dollar|US$}}30,997, {{w|Euro|€}}23,859, {{w|Australian dollar|A$}}34,363, {{w|Canadian dollar|C$}}31,961) so as to allow surgery for new teeth for him to occur. However, Higgins was considered to be too unhealthy to have the surgery in {{w|Marbella}}, {{w|Spain}}.

Dennis Taylor, now a snooker commentator at the {{w|BBC}}, stated that &quot;[t]here was just something about the way he played the game &amp;mdash; there was a little bit of {{w|John McEnroe|[John] McEnroe}} in there. I don't think you'll ever see a player in the game of snooker like the great Alex Higgins.&quot;

Philip Studd, another commentator of snooker for the BBC, has described the late snooker player as being &quot;snooker's original troubled genius&quot; and that Higgins was &quot;[c]harismatic, flash, fast, unpredictable, combustible &amp;mdash; you just couldn't take your eyes off the 'Hurricane'.&quot; Studd continued to explain that &quot;[w]hile he could never match the consistency of {{w|Steve Davis}} or {{w|Stephen Hendry}}, Higgins on his day was the greatest of them all. He touched the heights in 1982 when he won his second world title. He pipped {{w|Jimmy White}} to the final thanks to a break still widely regarded as the finest ever made. His tears of triumph after beating {{w|Ray Reardon}} &amp;mdash; wife and baby in arms &amp;mdash; remains one of snooker's most iconic moments. Without Alex 'Hurricane' Higgins snooker would never have become one of the most popular television sports in the 1980s and beyond.&quot;

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources ==
{{Wikipedia|Alex Higgins}}
*{{source|url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/snooker-legend-alex-hurricane-higgins-is-dead-2034992.html|title=Snooker legend Alex 'Hurricane' Higgins is dead|author=Richard Osley and Sadie Gray|pub=The Independent|date=July 25, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jul/25/alex-higgins-dies-aged-61|title=Alex Higgins, snooker's anti-hero, dies aged 61|author=Clive Everton|pub=The Observer|date=July 25, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/snooker/8852042.stm|title=Obituary: Alex Higgins|author=|pub=BBC Sport|date=July 24, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/snooker/8852020.stm|title=Snooker legend Alex 'Hurricane' Higgins dies at 61|author= |pub=BBC Sport|date=July 24, 2010}}

{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}

[[Category:Snooker]]
[[Category:Sports]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:Ryan Peteranna (Wikinewsie)]]
[[Category:Obituaries]]
[[Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Stale</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>203141</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008681</id>
      <parentid>4787126</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:16:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Stale articles may still be valid */ moot point now, [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]]</comment>
      <origin>5008681</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4008" sha1="pwd0xrv3hdtq1ud0x9wng0ze9lt5v3x" xml:space="preserve">==Let's change the wording==
*[[WN:CG]] says &quot;Ensure your reporting is timely and the story is at most a week old with sources in the last 2–3 days.&quot;, but
*[[Template:Stale]] says &quot;Wikinews does not publish reports on events that have happened three or more days ago.&quot;
These conflict.  As the content guide is approved policy/guideleine, I suggest we reword the template to &quot;Wikinews only publishes fresh stories.&quot;  Several good stories today fell foul of the two day limit in the template, (as a result of very low levels of reviewer activity) even in at least one case the print sources would be just two days old.

Current practice seems to be a three day limit, (rarely a week) and I suggest we start a Water Cooler conversation aimed at eventually tightening the limits in [[WN:CG]]

--[[User:InfantGorilla|InfantGorilla]] ([[User talk:InfantGorilla|talk]]) 15:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Stale articles may still be valid ==

{{tl|flag}}

I propose the first sentence of this template be removed. The first sentence says the ''{{wikt|validity}}'' of the article is  disputed. But a two-week-old story from, say CNN can still be valid, authentic, and genuine. It's just too old for our standards of [[WN:FRESH]].

I also propose that we set it up similar to {{tl|abandoned}} such that it marks the article for deletion automatically in two days. That means adding verbiage to the header as well. I don't think it needs to be in red, or in a warning style. The goal being to automate the next step so that we don't have to go back and mark the article a second time if it isn't edited otherwise. 

The new verbiage could be something like the following:

{{quotation|Wikinews does not publish reports on events that are not sufficiently recent. For [[wn:synthesis|synthesis articles]], new details must have come to light within the past '''five''' to '''seven days''', and the news event itself must have happened within ten days. Unless sources can be found and a news event chosen to bring this article into compliance with those requirements, the article will be deleted on April 28 (2 days). See the guideline on [[wn:gatwicking|Gatwicking]] for guidance.

Exceptions are possible where original reporting adds significant new and newsworthy information to the article.
::Note! Administrators carrying out cleanup work should take great care with items where original reporting is involved. Such should be moved to the original contributors' userspace, and a courtesy link to it added to their talk page.

Please try to resolve objections on the discussion page, or move the article to Wikipedia or another sister project where it may be more relevant.}}

[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[:Category:Michael.C.Wright_(Wikinewsie)|Published]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:06, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
:This is really a result of the messy transition from a two-to-three day staleness window to a five-to-seven day window in 2022. Previously, the abandonment process's four-days-without-editing requirement worked nicely to ensure every article {{tl|abandoned}} got applied to was already stale, and so {{tl|stale}} was not really needed (note how the documentation lists {{tl|tasks}} and {{tl|abandoned}} as preferred alternatives). I guess the simpler solution would be to just require eight days without editing before articles are considered abandoned. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 16:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
::Easier solution. Require 4 days without editing, but you can not put &lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:aband}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; on a non-stale article. I do agree with the new verbiage more or less though, however I would not support making it deleted in 2 days without Gatiwcking, which can sometimes take a while. A stale article does us no harm. @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]]@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 17:56, 18 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pwd0xrv3hdtq1ud0x9wng0ze9lt5v3x</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:9/11</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>209660</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008705</id>
      <parentid>4597991</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:20:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008705</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text bytes="1077" sha1="rv82ha23inbe937q8xqbaq5nwxn35wi" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=9/11}}
[[Image:National Guard at WTC.jpg|150px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Senate publish report on CIA torture and misinformation]]
* [[Documents regarding post-9/11 prisoner transport flights released]]
* [[Study concludes 9/11 firefighters are 19% more likely to develop cancer]]
* [[Osama bin Laden killed in U.S. operation in Pakistan, White House says]]
* [[Pakistani Taliban threaten revenge attack after bin Laden death; CIA says retaliation is likely]]
}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[:Category:9/11|All articles in category]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Event infoboxes]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rv82ha23inbe937q8xqbaq5nwxn35wi</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Topic cat</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>213550</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008735</id>
      <parentid>4879734</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:47:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael21107</username>
        <id>2866566</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Edit request: Fix dark mode legibility */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008735</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="17575" sha1="4ao14u7s707r9ocjufyqrybfvqiqon1" xml:space="preserve">==Latest stories==
Nice template.  However, the latest stories are too small, in my opinion: they are the easiest and most newsworthy way of navigating a category.  I like to see them in the main body of the page, at the size of body text or larger, such as in {{tl|Countrycategory}}. --[[User:InfantGorilla|InfantGorilla]] ([[User talk:InfantGorilla|talk]]) 10:13, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Two thoughts ==

Moved here in detail from the [[WN:Water cooler/proposals#Categories' new look|water cooler thread]], leaving a summary there:
* Lose the encyclopedic overview.  One sentence to identify the topic should suffice; leave the detail to Wikipedia, where they specialize in that.  In fact, a relatively fixed-form sentence provides stability and will probably suffice for a wide swath of categories.  (In {{tl|Areacategory}}, which offers a lot of flexibility, I'm still learning about how to provide most flexibility with fewest parameters.)
* You'll want flexibility to pick and choose which sister projects to provide links for, and what to link to at each.  Hopefully, it'll only take one optional parameter per sister, default being Wikipedia and Commons using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{PAGENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;. 
--[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:31, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

*I agree on both counts. WP often does sister links simply to search pages, which is unacceptable. As for the overview; much like [[w:WP:NOTNEWS|WP:NOTNEWS]], we're [[WN:NOT]] an encyclopedia. [[User:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''Blood Red Sandman'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:40, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
**Note the overview section is optional; and its goal is to provide some context to the readers without letting them go to the other place. I know we aren't an encyclopedia, but just for the ''context''. As for the sister projects, what if I change the sisterprojects variable to produce what you want, and make the other projects (Wikibooks, Wikiversty, etc.) optional?. @InfantGorilla &amp;ndash; Will fix that. --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Diego Grez|return fire]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:56, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
::*An overview is a distraction from what should be the most prominent feature of the category page: recent news.
::*I doubt the need for a separate parameter &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{commonscat|}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;; just use &lt;nowiki&gt;commons=category:{{PAGENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and the like.  Have &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{wikipedia|{{PAGENAME}}}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{commons|{{PAGENAME}}}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{wikibooks|}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{wikiquote|}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{wikiversity|}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:20, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

::*The only real context that's needed is a sentence or two, usually. Any kind of depth is the job of The Other Place and - much as we resent parts of their community attempting pseudonews - we should not start to do pseudoenclyclopia(ism?). The WMF projects compliment each other well. [[User:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''Blood Red Sandman'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:23, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::*Apparently I have fixed the issues. See [[:Category:Pichilemu]]. 'Overview' was shortened to two sentences, and the latest stories were moved to the main part of the category. --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Diego Grez|return fire]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:54, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

{{outdent|::::}}
I think there's just one key element missing, and then anything else will be fine tuning.  What's missing is an articulated summary sentence.  That's why you're still stuck on the idea of an &quot;overview&quot;.  With a properly articulated summary sentence, there's no reason for any overview because the summary sentence already tells the reader all they need to know to get oriented.

Your leading sentence is now just &quot;This is the &amp;mdash; category.&quot;  Uninformative.  That might be good enough for a '''topic''' category, by which I mean not a geocat and not a person-cat; but your example is a geocat.  I really think a good summary sentence is needed for any geocat smaller than a country.  That's why I put a great deal of careful thought into how {{tl|Areacategory}} generates its summary sentence.  I've been carefully planning for some time to add one more parameter to it, and I anticipate that that will be the last additional parameter ever needed for Areacategory; one could then generate a summary sentence such as
:This is the category for the [[Chile]]an city of '''[[w:Pichilemu|Pichilemu]]''', the capital of Cardenal Caro Province in the [[O'Higgins Region]] of [[Chile]].
Or some subset of those embellishments.

In fact, Areacategory's summary sentences are flexible enough that the template might just about work for people and topics, as well as for smaller geocats.  Technically, there's just one stray word further down that ''might'' need an additional parameter, though I'm worried about the burden of unwieldy parameter names in an overly generic template.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:Check [[:Category:Pichilemu|the category]] again :-) --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Diego Grez|return fire]]&lt;/sup&gt; 21:43, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:: :-).
:: Seems we're down to smaller details.  All the smaller things I can think of, at the moment:
::* Geocats often have two images &amp;mdash; above the sister links, either a locator image or a scenic image; and below the sister links, optionally a flag, seal, emblem, or the like.  E.g., [[:Category:Karnataka]].
::* I think the sister links should go above the external links, rather than below.
::* The documentation is lagging behind the template.
::* This is now such a general template that I wonder whether the name {{nowrap|&quot;topic cat&quot;}} does it justice.  I'm not sure what else to suggest, though.
::--[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:49, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I think I've fixed it ;) --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Diego Grez|return fire]]&lt;/sup&gt; 13:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== Two other changes ==

Three changes I'd like to make, but thought I should ask about first:
* &lt;s&gt;Eliminate &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{area}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;; instead, the code can just check for any of the associated image parameters.  (It isn't possible to do this with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{sisterprojects}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, because wikipedia and commons have defaults, so that sisterprojects is the only way to suppress them).&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Eliminate &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{commonscat}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;.  Categories can simply use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{commons}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and to link to a category, just say so.  (The default for &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{commons}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; would then be &lt;nowiki&gt;Category:{{PAGENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;.)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{external}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; independent of &lt;nowiki&gt;{{{sisterprojects}}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;.  Right now, there can't any external links unless there are sister-project links.&lt;/s&gt;
--[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:53, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

:On second thought, I see that the defaults for wikipedia and commons aren't actually in place.  Which makes the second change easier.  So now I'm tempted to just ''do'' some of it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:50, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:: I gave into temptation and did all three.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:05, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Good job. --[[User:Diego Grez|Diego Grez]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Diego Grez|return fire]]&lt;/sup&gt; 03:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

== Handling of commons parameter ==

It's really confusing that removing the &lt;code&gt;commons&lt;/code&gt; parameter doesn't eliminate the sister link.  I suggest a multi-step process to fix it:
# jimmy the template to automatically populate a hidden category when the &lt;code&gt;commons&lt;/code&gt; parameter is omitted.
# add explicit &lt;code&gt;commons&lt;/code&gt; parameter to all of those, so the hidden category is empty.
# change the default for the parameter.
This would be yet another big task that can't be done all at once; we've got an awful lot of those already, and I've thought for some time we need a better way to ''keep track of them all''.  Obligatory xkcd link:  [https://xkcd.com/974/]  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 12:48, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
:Why can't we just hit #3 straight away and be done with it? [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 13:00, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
:: We could do #1 and #3 simultaneously, and pick up #2 later.  That'd be a time-saver.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:07, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

== Protected edit request on 28 September 2016 ==
{{tl|sudo}}
Please change:
:&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#if:{{{no comma|}}}|&lt;span/&gt;|,}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
TO:&lt;br /&gt;
:&lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#if:{{{no comma|}}}|&lt;span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;|,}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This is to clear members from [[:Category:Pages using invalid self-closed HTML tags]]. Thank you, [[User:Xaosflux|Xaosflux]] ([[User talk:Xaosflux|talk]]) 03:46, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
: Changed &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;span/&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;nowiki/&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 11:05, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
::That works too :D, thank you. [[User:Xaosflux|Xaosflux]] ([[User talk:Xaosflux|talk]]) 13:22, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

==Alt==
{{tl|sudo}}

Add support for [[:w:en:WP:ALT|alt text]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:09, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

: {{ping|Koavf}} I'm uncomfortable with calling it &quot;alt&quot;, because there are multiple images supported by this template and this would apply specifically to just one of them.  Following the same pattern as parameter &lt;code&gt;imagecaption&lt;/code&gt;, how about &lt;code&gt;imagealt&lt;/code&gt;? --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:27, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

::Perhaps &lt;code&gt;altcaption&lt;/code&gt; --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 23:32, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
::Not sure what you mean exactly but I'm fine with whatever. Do you mean the little icons next to our sister projects? Those can be &lt;code&gt;alt=&quot;&quot;&lt;/code&gt; or omitted entirely as they are purely decorative. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:55, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

::: In addition to parameter &lt;code&gt;image&lt;/code&gt;, the template also has parameters &lt;code&gt;locmap&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;coat&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;emblem&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;logo&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;seal&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;flag&lt;/code&gt;, each of which when used specifies a &lt;code&gt;File:&lt;/code&gt;. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:04, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

:::: I like &lt;code&gt;imagealt&lt;/code&gt; because then all the fields adjunct to parameter &lt;code&gt;image&lt;/code&gt; are prefixed by the name of what they're adjunct to, providing a general convention that could be followed if we ever wanted to provide an adjunct to some other field. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

::::: In the end, I went for {{nowrap|&lt;code&gt;image alt&lt;/code&gt;}}, which is in keeping with recently added {{nowrap|&lt;code&gt;image size&lt;/code&gt;}}.  (Most parameters to this template use spaces to separate words.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:06, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

== Edit request - galleries ==

{{tl|editprotected}}

Please add, somewhere,

&lt;pre&gt;
{{#if:{{{nogallery|}}}|__NOGALLERY__}}
&lt;/pre&gt;

to allow suppression of gallery display of images. See, eg, [[Category:Donald Trump]] - [[:File:Trump 2016 TIME POTY.jpg]] is allowed for fair use in an article, but isn't allowed to be shown in the category page itself.

Thanks, --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 00:50, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

: {{ping|DannyS712|SVTCobra|Acagastya}} I'm not sure I follow what your concern is.  Are you suggesting a fair-use image cannot legally be shown at the bottom of a category it belongs to &amp;mdash; as the wiki software automatically does &amp;mdash; because fair-use images can only be used on articles? --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:04, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
::{{ping|Pi zero}} exactly - [[Wikinews:Fair use#Fair use on Wikinews]] says &quot;The use of non-free media outside of the main article namespace does not constitute fair use, and is not permitted.&quot;, meaning that it should not be shown. On enwiki, [[:w:Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria#Policy]] specifies a similar restriction, and notes in the policy that the nogallery tag can be used to hide the display on category pages. --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 02:09, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
::: {{ping|DannyS712}} I see the Wikipedia page suggesting that galleries on categories have to be suppressed in order to avoid having a fair-use image appear on a page that isn't an article.  That however sounds ludicrous to me.  By that logic, it should be a violation of fair-use policy for the image to appear on its own page in &lt;code&gt;file:&lt;/code&gt; space. &lt;p&gt; The more central matter of fair-use images not being allowed anywhere on the site other than articles, I would feel a need to investigate in-depth.  (I suspect this restriction has been knowingly deviated from by some folks whose knowledge of such legal niceties I would generally expect to be quite solid; the implication of which is simply that the investigation ought to be in-depth.) &lt;p&gt; If the needed restriction were really as dire as you're suggesting, I'm not sure why you're proposing to add markup whose default state is to allow galleries. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:41, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
:::: Because not all categories have images that are nonfree, but you're right that it would probably be better to always include it --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 02:44, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
::::: That's the third of my three points.  The first and second remain.  The second point definitely wants investigating (though where the time to do that is to be found, idk). --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:55, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::I don't know what lawyer recommended that policy to the WMF, but it is '''not''' grounded in any case law about thumbnails. Indexing has been considered to be transformative enough for fair use. See: https://garson-law.com/thumbnail-images-infringement-or-fair-use/ --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 03:14, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::: Honestly, I don't see any credible grounds for suppressing galleries on categories due to some of the images being fair-use. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:13, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

== Add parameter ==
{{tl|editprotected}}
Please change the wiki specified in the #if of the Wikisource parameter from Wiktionary to Wikispecies &amp;mdash; since Wikispecies would be following Wikisource instead &amp;mdash; add, below the Wikisource parameter, * {{nowrap|[[File:Wikispecies-logo.svg|15px|link=species:{{{Wikispecies}}}]] [[species:{{{Wikispecies}}}|Wikispecies]]}}}}{{#if:{{{wiktionary|}}}|&lt;nowiki/&gt; (at least, I think that'll work), and add the Wikispecies parameter to the documentation. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 02:00, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

:Hi @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] 
:(I am following up on backlog of edit protected requests and am trying to understand what needs to be done.)
:There are multiple requests in this. I tried to understand the first one and did not succeed. Why are Wikisource and Wiktionary not two different things? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 07:38, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
::[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]: Er...they are. I'm not sure why I thought we should place the Wikispecies parameter there specifically, since these parameters apparently aren't alphabetized, or sorted by any method I can decipher, but the point of the first thing I mentioned is that the #if parser function immediately following the Wikisource parameter currently checks to see if the next parameter the user has entered is |wiktionary= (and if so, kicks off the code for the Wiktionary parameter). This edit would change that so it checks for the Wikispecies parameter instead since that's what would be in the next bullet point of code (and if it is present, builds the Wikispecies link and then checks for the Wiktionary link). [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 00:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:55, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

== Edit request: Fix dark mode legibility ==

{{Editprotected}}

In dark mode, all body non-linked text is dark gray, making it almost illegible. [[User:Michael21107|Michael21107]] ([[User talk:Michael21107|talk]]) 01:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4ao14u7s707r9ocjufyqrybfvqiqon1</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Man cleared of Belfast bomb attempt on retrial after eleven years</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>220072</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008656</id>
      <parentid>4821616</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:50:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
      <origin>5008656</origin>
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      <text bytes="2993" sha1="7y84bl7lv65fl9tl4jkgtj8ap4qytmp" xml:space="preserve">{{Crime and law}}
{{date|November 12, 2010}}
[[File:Ford transit 6 v sst.jpg|thumb|left|250px|The trial centred around an attack launched from a Ford Transit]]
A judge hearing a retrial before the [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] {{w|Belfast Crown Court|Crown Court}} has cleared a man of an attempted {{w|bombing}} eleven years after he was first arrested. Convicted of possessing the bomb with intent to cause an explosion and endanger life in 2006, Gary Jones was granted a retrial on appeal.

On July 21, 1998 a {{w|Ford Transit}} van was used to launch a homemade mortar bomb at {{w|Newry}} police station in {{w|Belfast}}, [[Northern Ireland]]. The gas cylinder used, with 79kg of explosives inside, travelled only a few feet and did not explode. The van crashed into a parked car during the attack and was abandoned; the driver escaped despite being tackled by a witness, leaving behind his jumper.

The jumper, bomb, van, a denim jacket, and a hard hat were all examined forensically but only one piece of evidence was ever found &amp;mdash; a spot of blood on the jumper. It matched Jones and he was arrested in March 1999.
{{QuoteRight|the verdict must be one of not guilty|4=Mr Justice McCloskey}}
Forensic scientist Margaret Boyce testified that there were four possible sources for this blood: Jones coming into direct contact with it, the blood being transmitted in the air, the jumper touching something bloodstained, and 'secondary' contact. She concluded the last of these was less likely but the other three all had an equal chance of being the source.

Jones, giving evidence, denied remembering anything about the date of the offence or knowledge of the incident prior to his arrest. He said in addition to his painting and decorating business he had part-time employment at a children's home which included dealing with bags of used clothes.

Mr Justice McCloskey said this &quot;evidence does not point in a single direction. I further conclude that this evidence does not exclude reasonably tenable possibilities &amp;mdash; namely purely innocuous contact in the course of employment or daily living &amp;mdash; consistent with the defendant's innocence. The prosecution have failed to establish the defendant's guilt beyond reasonable doubt &amp;mdash; accordingly, the verdict must be one of not guilty.&quot;

Jones had been sentenced to fourteen years imprisonment.

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 

*{{source|url=http://www.u.tv/News/Man-jailed-over-Newry-bomb-not-guilty/9e606d05-47ba-4a2f-b4a5-887dd7331d06
|title=Man jailed over Newry bomb 'not guilty'
|author=
|pub=UTV News
|date=November 12, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11743663|title=Man acquitted of Newry bomb attack|author=|pub=BBC News Online|date=November 12, 2010}}

{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}

[[Category:Crime and law]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:Iain Macdonald (Wikinewsie)]]
[[Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]</text>
      <sha1>7y84bl7lv65fl9tl4jkgtj8ap4qytmp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008670</id>
      <parentid>5008656</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:58:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>remove redundant link</comment>
      <origin>5008670</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2987" sha1="nzl32japgadg0q9i2y5av8f7v601xv5" xml:space="preserve">{{Crime and law}}
{{date|November 12, 2010}}
[[File:Ford transit 6 v sst.jpg|thumb|left|250px|The trial centred around an attack launched from a Ford Transit]]
A judge hearing a retrial before the [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] {{w|Belfast Crown Court|Crown Court}} has cleared a man of an attempted {{w|bombing}} eleven years after he was first arrested. Convicted of possessing the bomb with intent to cause an explosion and endanger life in 2006, Gary Jones was granted a retrial on appeal.

On July 21, 1998 a {{w|Ford Transit}} van was used to launch a homemade mortar bomb at {{w|Newry}} police station in Belfast, [[Northern Ireland]]. The gas cylinder used, with 79kg of explosives inside, travelled only a few feet and did not explode. The van crashed into a parked car during the attack and was abandoned; the driver escaped despite being tackled by a witness, leaving behind his jumper.

The jumper, bomb, van, a denim jacket, and a hard hat were all examined forensically but only one piece of evidence was ever found &amp;mdash; a spot of blood on the jumper. It matched Jones and he was arrested in March 1999.
{{QuoteRight|the verdict must be one of not guilty|4=Mr Justice McCloskey}}
Forensic scientist Margaret Boyce testified that there were four possible sources for this blood: Jones coming into direct contact with it, the blood being transmitted in the air, the jumper touching something bloodstained, and 'secondary' contact. She concluded the last of these was less likely but the other three all had an equal chance of being the source.

Jones, giving evidence, denied remembering anything about the date of the offence or knowledge of the incident prior to his arrest. He said in addition to his painting and decorating business he had part-time employment at a children's home which included dealing with bags of used clothes.

Mr Justice McCloskey said this &quot;evidence does not point in a single direction. I further conclude that this evidence does not exclude reasonably tenable possibilities &amp;mdash; namely purely innocuous contact in the course of employment or daily living &amp;mdash; consistent with the defendant's innocence. The prosecution have failed to establish the defendant's guilt beyond reasonable doubt &amp;mdash; accordingly, the verdict must be one of not guilty.&quot;

Jones had been sentenced to fourteen years imprisonment.

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 

*{{source|url=http://www.u.tv/News/Man-jailed-over-Newry-bomb-not-guilty/9e606d05-47ba-4a2f-b4a5-887dd7331d06
|title=Man jailed over Newry bomb 'not guilty'
|author=
|pub=UTV News
|date=November 12, 2010}}
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11743663|title=Man acquitted of Newry bomb attack|author=|pub=BBC News Online|date=November 12, 2010}}

{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}

[[Category:Crime and law]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:Iain Macdonald (Wikinewsie)]]
[[Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]</text>
      <sha1>nzl32japgadg0q9i2y5av8f7v601xv5</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Scotland</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>231154</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008477</id>
      <parentid>3286884</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:58:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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      <text bytes="1083" sha1="epsyvlcj0mxctxwgx61xgg3eippcc4v" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=Scotland}}
[[Image:LocationScotland.svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Scottish Labour win Scottish Parliament by-election]]
* [[Former leader of the Scottish National Party Alex Salmond dies at 69]]
* [[Levenmouth Rail Link reopens as June timetable changes reshuffle United Kingdom rail service patterns]]
* [[Actor Alan Cumming returns OBE for British Empire's 'toxicity']]
* [[Archbishop of Canterbury crowns King Charles III in the UK]]
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    <title>Plane crash in Cork, Ireland kills six</title>
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        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="3444" sha1="3xm3yjsmel08ox33zmtsp0yebc20y6z" xml:space="preserve">{{date|February 10, 2011}}
{{Aviation}}
Six people have died as the result of an aircraft crash in {{w|Cork (city)|Cork}}, [[Republic of Ireland]]. Flight No MN7100 involved a {{w|Manx2}} aircraft travelling from [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] in [[Northern Ireland]], [[United Kingdom]] at 0812 {{w|Coordinated Universal Time|UTC}} with ten passengers and two crew members onboard the flight.

The plane crashed at {{w|Cork Airport}} after a third attempt to land the aircraft there at approximately 1000 UTC, which resulted in the vehicle impacting with Runway 17, turning upside down and catching fire, approximately 1000 feet along the runway. At the time of this incident, the weather was largely foggy, with little visibility.

[[Image:CorkAirport1.jpg|thumb|left|200px|{{w|Cork Airport}} in September 2006.]] Eight fire engines soon arrived at the scene. The accident resulted in six fatalities, two of them Irish citizens, three of them British and one of them [[Spain|Spanish]]. One of those killed was Brendan McAleese, the cousin of the husband of Irish president {{w|Mary McAleese}}. The remaining six of the twelve occupants were injured, according to a spokesperson for the Cork County Council. All of those that were injured were transported to {{w|Cork University Hospital}}. Four are reported to be in a severe condition at present. The remaining two individuals are said to be &quot;comfortable&quot;.

A statement released from the {{w|Irish Aviation Authority|Irish Aviation Authority (IAA)}} said: &quot;The aircraft made an approach to Runway 17 in low visibility conditions and went around and did not land and attempted a second landing on Runway 35. The aircraft then went around a second time and came back for an approach to Runway 17. On the second approach to Runway 17 the aircraft crashed, rescue and fire crew are in attendance. There is a fire and debris has been scattered onto the runway and over a wide area.&quot; The IAA also announced the launch of an investigation.

{{w|Brian Cowen}}, the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland, commented that his &quot;thoughts are with all of those affected by this morning's crash, including the families and friends of those who have died. I also want to send my best wishes and those of the government, to all of those who survived the crash and are being treated in hospital at present.&quot;

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources ==
*{{source|url=http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Cork-Plane-Crash-Six-People-Dead-After-Aircraft-From-Belfast-Crashes-In-Ireland/Article/201102215927419?f=rss|title=Nationalities Of Cork Plane Crash Victims|author= |pub=Sky News|date=February 10, 2011}}
*{{source|url=http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0210/breaking19.html?via=mr|title=Six killed as passenger plane crashes at Cork airport|author=Barry Roche|pub=The Irish Times|date=February 10, 2011}}
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12415541|title=President's relative among six killed in Cork crash|author= |pub=BBC News Online|date=February 10, 2011}}

== External links ==

{{Wikipedia|Flight Avia Flight 7100}}

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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* [[Australia to detain Burmese boatpeople on Nauru]]}}
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* [[UN humanitarian chief Martin Griffiths urges guarantees of safe passage for aid amid Sudan conflict]]
* [[South Sudanese politician John Luk Jok dies aged about 68]]
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* [[South Sudanese President Salva Kiir signs peace deal]]
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    <title>Thirty injured as bus crashes in Belfast, Northern Ireland</title>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="2234" sha1="d7qckn8dbrh0ik1yq3tzmtcs68pgc0a" xml:space="preserve">{{date|August 14, 2011}}
{{Disasters and accidents}}
A double-decker bus has overturned in [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]], the capital city of [[Northern Ireland]]. Approximately thirty people have been left injured as a result of the road traffic collision near {{w|Belfast Central railway station}}, located close to the centre of the city. The incident occurred at around 1415 {{w|British Summer Time|BST}} (1315 {{w|Coordinated Universal Time|UTC}}) today.

According to ambulance service spokesperson John McPoland, &quot;The vast majority of those on the bus are being taken to hospital by ambulance.&quot; He continued, &quot;Thankfully no one is seriously hurt; a lot of people are walking wounded. Probably the driver is the most seriously injured and he's been taken to the {{w|Royal Victoria Hospital, Belfast|Royal Victoria Hospital}}, but it's not expected his injuries are life-threatening.&quot;

The driver of the bus was extracted from the wreckage with the use of cutting equipment. The victims have been transported to four separate hospitals in Belfast. The bus was the only vehicle to have been involved in the accident. No passengers are thought to have been killed or seriously injured.

Albertbridge Road and East Bridge Street in Belfast have been closed as a result of the crash. According to a spokesperson for {{w|Translink (Northern Ireland)|Translink}}, &quot;an investigation is underway into what happened&quot;. The vehicle has been removed from the scene for investigative purposes. Railway services at the nearby station remain unaffected.

{{haveyoursay}}

== Sources ==
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14521653|title=More than 30 passengers hurt after bus overturns in Belfast|author= |pub=BBC News Online|date=August 14, 2011}}
*{{source|url=http://www.u.tv/News/Up-to-30-injured-in-overturned-bus/edbc4ad9-72a0-43d9-ae7a-0b3662ade706|title=Up to 30 injured in overturned bus|author= |pub=UTV|date=August 14, 2011}}

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    <title>Two arrested over Belfast, Northern Ireland fatal shooting</title>
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      <id>5008659</id>
      <parentid>4827944</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:52:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="2055" sha1="6g0slzwv531ywm10xtuyxss2llftj0q" xml:space="preserve">{{date|March 3, 2012}}
{{United Kingdom}}
In the city centre of [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]], the [[Northern Ireland|Northern Irish]] capital, a man has been killed in a shooting incident. Police have arrested one man and one woman for his murder.

The victim, identified as Christopher Mackin, was aged 31. He died at the {{w|Royal Victoria Hospital, Belfast|Royal Victoria Hospital}} after the shooting. It is believed he was shot as many as four times in the incident at College Square North at approximately 2130 {{w|Coordinated Universal Time|UTC}} Thursday.

Colin Keenan, a councillor for the {{w|Social Democratic and Labour Party}}, said the attack &quot;has completely sent shockwaves through this community&quot;, while {{w|Lord Mayor of Belfast}} Niall Ó Donnghaile described the situation as &quot;very worrying&quot;.

As of yet, no motive for this murder has been given. According to Detective Chief Inspector John McVea, police  were &quot;not looking at&quot; possible [[wikt:paramilitary|paramilitary]] involvement. &quot;He was known to police but I am not looking at any of his previous involvement with police as the motive for this murder&quot;, stated McVea. He believed the motive for this murder &quot;lies more in close associations with Christopher Mackin and I don't think it involves any of his previous criminal activity&quot;.

{{haveyoursay}}
{{update|Christopher Mackin murder: police remand two in custody after court appearance|March 9, 2012}}
== Sources ==
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17226897|title=Man dies following Belfast gun attack|author= |pub=BBC News Online|date=March 2, 2012}}
*{{source|url=http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/two-held-in-connection-with-belfast-shooting-542029.html|title=Two held in connection with Belfast shooting|author= |pub=Irish Examiner|date=March 2, 2012}}

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    <title>Christopher Mackin murder: police remand two in custody after court appearance</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="2900" sha1="0enlrdnra7hygwb93f0hrwdfhwy7ior" xml:space="preserve">{{date|March 9, 2012}}
{{Crime and law}}
Julie-Ann Valliday, 35, and her 40-year-old husband Charles Stephen Valliday were remanded in custody Tuesday after appearing in [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] Magistrates' Court, [[Northern Ireland]], having both been charged with the murder of Christopher Mackin on March 1. A police officer stated the accused &quot;worked together&quot; and &quot;lured&quot; Mackin to his death.

Meanwhile, a 27-year-old man has been released from custody without condition, after he was arrested by police on Monday in relation to Mackin's murder. Previously, a 24-year-old woman also had been released on no conditions after arrest over the same incident.

In the Vallidays' case, the court was informed of fifteen cartridges discovered at the murder scene, College Square North in Belfast. A detective inspector told the court of Mackin and Julie-Ann arranging to meet each other, in the four hours before his killing, contacting each other by phone and via text on fifty instances. Text messages by Mackin illustrated he &quot;had some concerns and suspected he may have been set up for something, but nevertheless went on to have the meeting&quot;, the detective stated. The detective said Charles was a drug dealer in the Northern Irish capital, with his wife also involved.

Defence lawyers have suggested the case against their clients is weak. Paul McCrudden, Julie-Ann's lawyer, cited an absence of evidence linking Julie-Ann to the murder scene, claiming the case was based &quot;on police speculation, on backstreet rumour and on salacious gossip&quot;. Similarly, Billy McNulty, Charles' lawyer, described the charge against his client as &quot;hastily cobbled together, based on speculation, rumour, innuendo, call it what you like, but no concrete evidence to link Mr Valliday to the charge&quot;.

The couple have been denied bail for murder, with the judge citing concerns relating to absconding, witness interference and the absence of any murder weapon, which the detective said was &quot;still out there&quot;.

{{haveyoursay}}
== Related news ==
* {{wikinews|title=Two arrested over Belfast, Northern Ireland fatal shooting|date=March 3, 2012}}
== Sources ==
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17282552|title=Man released over Mackin murder|author= |pub=BBC News Online|date=March 7, 2012}}
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17269210|title=Couple charged with Christopher Mackin murder in Belfast|author= |pub=BBC News Online|date=March 6, 2012}}
*{{source|url=http://www.u.tv/News/City-murder-victim-lured-to-death/18b48e06-5ff2-4fa1-b783-bcdbc1bb5b55|title=City murder victim 'lured to death'|author= |pub=UTV|date=March 6, 2012}}

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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Other stories from Scotland|
* [[Scottish Labour win Scottish Parliament by-election]]
* [[Former leader of the Scottish National Party Alex Salmond dies at 69]]
* [[Levenmouth Rail Link reopens as June timetable changes reshuffle United Kingdom rail service patterns]]
* [[Actor Alan Cumming returns OBE for British Empire's 'toxicity']]
* [[Archbishop of Canterbury crowns King Charles III in the UK]]
}}
&lt;small&gt;&lt;div style=&quot;text-align: right;&quot;&gt;...[[Portal:Scotland|More articles here]]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
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[[image:LocationScotland.png|210px|border|A map showing the location of Scotland]]&lt;/div&gt;}}
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    <title>2,200 jobs to be lost as JJB Sports goes into administration</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <id>5008662</id>
      <parentid>4812294</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:53:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="2176" sha1="lcpaal2mnjg2qn6dzh8w090e5thl3it" xml:space="preserve">{{date|October 1, 2012}}
{{United Kingdom}}
[[File:JJB Sports, Belfast, June 2010.JPG|thumb|left|A JJB Sports branch in [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]]. {{Image|[[Commons:User:Ardfern|Ardfern]]}}]]
{{w|JJB Sports}}, [[UK|British]] sports clothing and equipment retail chain, is to make 2,200 employees in the [[United Kingdom]] {{w|layoff|redundant}} as it enters {{w|administration (law)|administration}}.

In a {{w|Pound sterling|£}}24m deal, {{w|Sports Direct}} have agreed to purchase and rebrand 20 stores as well as purchasing the brand, stock, website, the license to the {{w|Slazenger}} Golf brand and JJB's Wigan headquarters. The deal with Sports Direct will keep 500 employees in work. In addition, 167 employees will continue working for JJB while [[KPMG]], the appointed administrators, wind the company down.

The bulk of the money from the Sports Direct deal will go to pay back loans made by {{w|Lloyds Banking Group}} as well as money owned to the sports clothing brand {{w|Adidas}} and the American sports retailer {{w|Dick's Sporting Goods}}, who had previously invested £20m in JJB. Shareholders are not expected to get any payout.

Former professional footballer and {{w|Wigan FC}} owner {{w|Dave Whelan}}, who founded the company in 1971 and sold his share in 2007, decided not to invest to save the business. To the [[BBC]] he said, &quot;When I sold it &amp;mdash; I sold it something like five years ago &amp;mdash; just before that it was valued at a billion pounds. Now it's completely worthless and it's amazing how it's happened.&quot;

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 

*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19792124
|title=JJB Sports in administration with 2,200 job losses
|pub=BBC News Online
|date=October 1, 2012
}}
*{{source|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/oct/01/jjb-administration-shop-closures-job-losses
|title=JJB goes into administration – with 133 shop closures and 2,200 job losses
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=October 1, 2012
}}

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    <title>Hillary Clinton condemns violence in Northern Ireland</title>
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      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="4282" sha1="p1wa2ond1skidc6fntidbm8alxco5et" xml:space="preserve">{{date|December 8, 2012}}
{{United Kingdom}}

[[United States]] Secretary of State {{w|Hillary Clinton}} has called yesterday (Friday) for an end to violence which has taken place in {{w|Northern Ireland}} this week, following the decision of {{w|Belfast City Council}} to stop flying the {{w|Union Flag}} year round. Clinton, who was on a visit to [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] as part of a four-day tour of {{w|Europe}}, said that violence &quot;is never an acceptable response to disagreements.&quot;

[[File:Defense.gov photo essay 120430-D-NI589-0404.jpg|thumb|left|Hillary Clinton {{image|Glenn Fawcett}}]]
At a press conference also attended by Northern Ireland First Minister {{w|Peter Robinson}} and Deputy First Minister {{w|Martin McGuinness}}, Clinton condemned the violence: &quot;We have seen this week the work is not complete and I join in condemning the recent attacks,&quot; she said. She also called for all Northern Ireland parties &quot;to confront the remaining challenge of sectarian divisions, peacefully together&quot;.

She said that even though peace in Northern Ireland was &quot;remarkably durable&quot;, &quot;there are still those who would try to destroy it.&quot; 

{{QuoteRight|[violence] is never an acceptable response to disagreements.|4={{w|Hillary Clinton}}}}
Even though Clinton will  be stepping down as Secretary of State next month, she pledged to continue working on the peace process in Northern Ireland, &quot;I offer to you, as I stand down from Secretary of State, to continue working with you in developing the peace process as an advocate and cheerleader for the process and to reach out to those who are not feeling part of it.&quot;

This week's outbreak of violence in Northern Ireland followed the decision by Belfast City Council to only fly the Union Flag on certain designated days, instead of all-year round, as is currently the case. Although nationalists on the council had wanted the flag removed completely, {{w|Alliance Party of Northern Ireland|Alliance}} persuaded them to vote for their compromise proposal, whereby the flag would only be flown on certain designated days per year. 

Alliance MP for East Belfast Naomi Long has received death threats, which Clinton called &quot;unacceptable&quot;. A {{w|Carrickfergus}} Alliance party office was set on fire and two {{w|Bangor, County Down|Bangor}} councillors' homes were attacked.

Hillary Clinton and her husband {{w|Bill Clinton}} have visited Northern Ireland several times previously. Bill Clinton played a key part in convincing both sides in the conflict to agree to end the violence.

Since becoming Secretary of State in 2008, Clinton has visited over 100 countries, meaning she has visited more countries during her tenure than any other Secretary of State. 

There is now speculation as to whether Clinton will launch another presidential bid, following her failed campaign in 2008, when she was beaten to the {{w|Democratic Party}} nomination by {{w|Barack Obama}}. Several international figures have said they would support her presidential candidacy, including former {{w|UK}} prime minister {{w|Tony Blair}}, and {{w|Jordan|Jordanian}} minister {{w|Nasser Judeh}}. 57% of those polled in a recent survey by the {{w|Washington Post}} indicated that they would support Clinton's candidacy although she has denied that she is planning to run.

Clinton is now to continue her tour of {{w|Europe}}, which is expected to be one of her last foreign trips as Secretary of State, with visits to the {{w|Czech Republic}} and {{w|Belgium}}. 

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 

*{{source|url=http://www.channel4.com/news/hillary-clinton-back-in-belfast-on-farewell-tour
|title=Clinton uses visit to condemn Belfast violence 
|author=
|pub=Channel 4 News
|date=December 7, 2012
}}
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20625735
|title=US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemns recent NI violence
|author=
|pub=BBC News Online
|date=December 7, 2012
}}

{{Publish}}
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[[Category:Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Barack Obama]]
[[Category:Bill Clinton]]
[[Category:Hillary Clinton]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Nasser Judeh]]
[[Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]</text>
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    <title>Northern Ireland police arrest man over Belfast double shooting</title>
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      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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{{Crime and law}}
The [[Police Service of Northern Ireland]] arrested a man on suspicion of {{w|Attempted murder|attempted murder}} and {{w|Offences against the Person Act 1861#Threats_to_kill|threatening to commit murder}} Saturday after a shooting incident in the [[Northern Ireland|Northern Irish]] capital [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] Friday.

Two men, one aged 24 and the other 22, were both seriously injured in the incident at Old Park Road in the north of Belfast, which was reported to police about 7:30pm local time Friday. The 24-year-old man, identified by ''{{w|UTV Live}}'' as Sean Corbett, had recently departed from a shop and was standing near a vehicle when as many as ten gunshots were fired at him. The 22-year-old victim, who has not been identified, was sitting inside the vehicle and also suffered numerous gunshots wounds.

Corbett was transported to {{w|Mater Infirmorum Hospital}}, where he was subsequently given urgent surgery. The other man, who managed to drive to hospital himself, was also given medical treatment for his wounds. The last reports indicated both men were in stable condition.

North Belfast Area Commander Chief Inspector Andy Freeburn spoke against the shooting, calling it, &quot;unacceptable in our community&quot;. He described the incident as &quot;an utterly reckless attack with up to 40 members of the public, including women and children, in close proximity&quot;, adding: &quot;[W]e are lucky that we are not dealing with many more casualties today.&quot; The suspect is understood to be cooperating with police as they investigate the incident.

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 
*{{source|url=http://www.u.tv/News/Man-held-over-north-Belfast-shooting/7831b5c5-e69c-4b7c-9a96-628b80ce6bf7|title=Man held over north Belfast shooting|author= |pub=UTV Live|date=February 17, 2013}}
*{{source|url=http://www.psni.police.uk/directory/news-archive/news-2013/february-2013/a_district_man_arrested_over_shooting.htm|title=Man arrested over shooting|author= |pub=Police Service of Northern Ireland|date=February 17, 2013}}

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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:04, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
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== Wikinews shutting down? ==

Did you hear? Sad.... @[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 22:35, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

:Wikinews is not shutting down. As of June 2025, Wikinews remains active in 31 languages, including English, with over 1.7 million articles and hundreds of recently active editors. The English Wikinews specifically is still operational, with more than 22,000 articles and ongoing user contributions. There is no official announcement or credible indication that Wikinews, or its English edition, is closing or shutting down.
:Related
:Is Wikinews planning to shut down or is it still active in 2025
:What recent community discussions suggest about Wikinews's future
:How has editor activity changed on Wikinews over the past year
:Are there any official announcements about Wikinews closing soon
:What factors are currently threatening Wikinews's sustainability
:@[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:14, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
::What did you hear? It looks like you copied this from somewhere. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:29, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
:::I found information saying Wikinews might go arcieve mode @[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:36, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:37, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Where did you find it? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:39, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Water_cooler/miscellaneous#Sister_Projects_Task_Force_reviews_Wikispore_and_Wikinews [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:48, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:48, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Public_consultation_about_Wikinews [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:49, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:49, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

== Truth is behind a paywall... ==

{{tq|[T]he truth is behind a paywall, but propaganda is free.}} An interesting quote. Since we forbid paywalled sources...it begs the question. ツ  Good post.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 00:42, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

:I mean that we are the nonpaywalled avenue to information. And people can use us to identify others. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:51, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

== Top article for June! ==

[[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025.webp|thumb|left|alt=Award for highest monthly page-views.|Original author for the top article published in June, 2025. The article has at least 3,666 views.]] Thank you for starting the article titled &quot;[[Boeing 787 crashes into Indian medical school, killing hundreds]].&quot; As of today, the article has the highest number of page-views of all articles published in June of 2025.

{{clear}}&lt;!--keep the template:clear so new sections are bumped up to wrap around image--&gt;

As the original author, you can also use the following userbox on your user page: 

{{userbox
| id = [[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025-mini.png|40px]]
| info = ''This user was the original author of the [[Wikinews:2025 Boost publication rate/Monthly top article|top article]] for June, 2025''
| border-s = 1
}}

{{clear}}

This article set a new, high bar of total page views! 
—[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:16, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

== Community response to SPTF's recommendation to close ''Wikinews'' ==

The Wikimedia Foundation’s Sister Projects Task Force (SPTF) has issued a [[m:Public consultation about Wikinews|recommendation to close Wikinews]]. A community response to the Task Force is underway and I believe it's critical that we show clear support from contributors, reviewers, and administrators if we want Wikinews to remain open.

If you believe Wikinews still has potential for revitalization and should remain active, I ask that you:

* Review and help improve the draft community response, and/or
* Add your endorsement once you're comfortable with the language

The goal is to finalize the draft before the [[m:Event:Community_consultation_on_Wikispore/Wikinews,_call_1|July 16 Task Force call]], so our response is ready for consideration.

You can find the draft here:
👉 [[Wikinews:Response to Proposal for Closing Wikinews]] 

Thanks for considering. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:50, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

:Is this the one that you and I have already commented on or is it a new one? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:18, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

== Top article in July! ==

[[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025.webp|thumb|left|alt=Award for highest monthly page-views.|Contributing author for the top article published in July, 2025. The article has at least 3,583 views!]] Thank you for contributing to the article titled  &quot;[[20-year-old astrophotographer captures rare solar eclipse on Saturn]].&quot; The article has the most number of page-views of all articles published in July of 2025.

That's three months in a row!

{{clear}}&lt;!--keep the template:clear so new sections are bumped up to wrap around image--&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:31, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

== Request for Reviewership ==

Hi Darkfrog24

Hope you're doing well.

I've closed your request for reviewership as unsuccessful as there were 3 support and 2.5 oppose vote. I would note a few items of concern

* what was described as 'interpersonal skills with others' 
* please sign your pre-reviews, then they have a 'Reply' button available to users who have quick reply feature enabled in preferences
* when pre-reviewing, if it is ready to publish, tag a few reviewers; i use template {{tl|ping-assistance-required}} for this, and subst it
* if it is not ready to publish, tag a few users; i use template {{tl|pingrr}} for it, and subst it; ideally, also ping the users who wrote the current revision
* suggest itemizing (via numbered list) things that need fixing in the pre-review, as this makes it easier for foreigners and for new users to work with your provided feedback.
* see also: [[Wikinews:Watching pages]] and [[Wikinews:Water_cooler/proposals#Collaboration_guide|this discussion]]
i'm happy to work together with you and try to be less of a nuisance, towards re-application next year provided the site is still existing somewhere given that the WMF had a consultation about closing it at [[:meta:Public consultation about Wikinews]]

have a great day, [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 20:11, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

:I consider you an involved party in this matter, G.
:I see a lot of this post of yours is a critique of the way I do pre-review. No thanks. Your time is better spent on other things. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:50, 8 August 2025 (UTC)
::It is not just you, i am aiming to get these points documented in official documentation as seen in link to water cooler discussion. I am not going away anywhere soon. Please subscribe to water cooler if you would like to be updated. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 03:17, 8 August 2025 (UTC)
:::Wow, you are? Good for you. I greatly support posting rules publicly. But in the meantime, these are your personal preferences, and they don't mean that much to me. I'm going to pass on notifications, but I'll check it out. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:55, 8 August 2025 (UTC)
::::Good plan thanks Darkfrog24 [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 13:25, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

== Thanks for your help ==

@[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 01:00, 11 August 2025 (UTC)

:It's a team effort. She was gonna time out. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:27, 11 August 2025 (UTC)

== good to see you back? ==

how's it going? Staying around? @[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 00:53, 23 September 2025 (UTC)

:I don't have plans one way or the other, BK. Most of the time I look at the news and don't see anything I would want to write a Wikinews article about. You can always call me if you need me. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:00, 23 September 2025 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Gerry Adams arrested over 1972 Jean McConville murder</title>
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      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="2814" sha1="k96oxb1g3pwvt8j09l5sya00039eunw" xml:space="preserve">{{date|May 2, 2014}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Gerry Adams Easter Lily Badge cropped.jpg|thumb|left|Gerry Adams in 2011. {{Image|Domer48}}]]
{{w|Gerry Adams}}, the leader of the {{w|Ireland|Irish}} republican party {{w|Sinn Féin}}, was arrested Wednesday by the {{w|Police Service of Northern Ireland}} as part of an investigation of the 1972 disappearance and murder of {{w|Jean McConville}}, a mother of ten. McConville was taken from her flat in {{w|Divis}} in west [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] shortly before Christmas of 1972, then shot. The {{w|Irish Republican Army}} (IRA) later admitted to the abduction and killing.

A statement from the police said: &quot;Detectives from the serious crime branch investigating the abduction and murder of Jean McConville in 1972 have arrested a 65-year-old man in {{w|Antrim, County Antrim|Antrim}}. The suspect is currently being interviewed by detectives at the serious crime suite in Antrim police station.&quot;

Adams has said he is &quot;innocent of any part&quot; of the murder of McConville: &quot;I believe that the killing of Jean McConville and the secret burial of her body was wrong and a grievous injustice to her and her family. Well publicised, malicious allegations have been made against me. I reject these. While I have never disassociated myself from the IRA and I never will, I am innocent of any part in the abduction, killing or burial of Mrs McConville.&quot;

{{w|Mary Lou McDonald}}, vice president of Sinn Féin, said the arrest was politically motivated arguing it was a &quot;concerted and malicious effort to link Gerry Adams to this case for considerable time&quot;. The Police Service of Northern Ireland reject this claim.

The Sinn Féin leader's arrest follows the release of audio tapes held by {{w|Boston College}} containing oral history from former members of the republican movement including members of the IRA. A number of arrests have been made following the release of the 'Belfast Project' tapes.

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 

*{{source|url=http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/30/gerry-adams-held-jean-mconville-killing
|title=Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams held over 1972 Jean McConville killing
|author=Henry McDonald and Nicholas Watt
|pub=The Guardian
|date=April 30, 2014
}}
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27232731
|title=Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams held over Jean McConville murder
|pub=BBC News Online
|date=April 30, 2014
}}

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[[Category:Tom Morris (Wikinewsie)]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Gerry Adams]]
[[Category:Police Service of Northern Ireland]]
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      <text bytes="74" sha1="jfjz0sugf96boasbr27ki2tp4136lqn" xml:space="preserve">#REDIRECT [[:Category:Brexit]]

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  <page>
    <title>UK documentary claims fire weakened RMS Titanic</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <id>5008666</id>
      <parentid>4828460</parentid>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="3710" sha1="7ezkc2ec3700v2kw0ebfplcfnnmx5xk" xml:space="preserve">{{DISPLAYTITLE:&lt;span&gt;UK documentary claims fire weakened RMS ''Titanic''&lt;/span&gt;}}
{{date|January 3, 2017}}
{{Disasters and accidents}}
A documentary broadcast on Sunday on the [[UK]]'s [[Channel 4]] claims the {{w|RMS Titanic|RMS ''Titanic''}} was weakened by a three-week fire before its infamous 1912 sinking.
[[File:Titanic wreck bow.jpg|thumb|left|255px|The wrecked bow of RMS ''Titanic''{{Image credit|[[U.S.]] {{w|National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration}}/Institute for Exploration/{{w|University of Rhode Island}}}}]]
More than 1,500 people died when the vessel sank partway between {{w|Southampton}}, [[England]] and [[New York, New York|New York]], [[United States]]. The disaster has long been thought down to a collision with an iceberg.

''Titanic: The New Evidence'' focuses upon research by [[Ireland|Irish]] journalist Senan Molony, who spent 30 years investigating the accident. Based on photographs of RMS ''Titanic'' at the shipyard that built it in [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]], Ireland, he suggested fire by spotting large black streaks in the region struck by the iceberg.

The documentary claims expert analysis confirmed these streaks likely signify a large fire in a fuel store. Alleging temperatures of up to 1,000 degrees Celsius, Molony said metallurgists had opined &quot;when you get that level of temperature against steel it makes it brittle, and reduces its strength by up to 75 per cent.&quot;

Molony claims &quot;This isn't a simple story of colliding with an iceberg and sinking. It's a perfect storm of extraordinary factors coming together: fire, ice and criminal negligence[....] The fire was known about, but it was played down. She should never have been put to sea.&quot; He said J Bruce Ismay, President of the firm behind construction of RMS ''Titanic'', ordered the twelve men tasked to attempting to control the fire to avoid informing passengers. Molony also claims the ship backed into its Southampton berth in a bid to hide fire damage.

A 1912 report to the UK Parliament mentioned, but dismissed as a cause, the on-board fire. Ray Boston suggested in 2008 fire may have broken out ten days prior to departure. Boston investigated the disaster for twenty years. Richard De Kerbrech, who wrote several books documenting the accident, said Molony's proposal the fire severely weakened the ship's structure is believable.

Molony said &quot;Nobody has investigated these marks before or dwelled upon them.&quot; The photographs, taken by engineers on the ship, only recently came to light when they were sold at auction.
{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 

*{{source|url=http://gulfnews.com/news/americas/usa/fire-in-boiler-real-reason-for-titanic-s-sinking-documentary-1.1954897
|title=Fire in boiler real reason for Titanic’s sinking: documentary
|author={{w|Press Trust of India|PTI}}
|pub=Gulf News
|date=January 3, 2017
}}
*{{source|url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rms-titanic-evidence-fire-senan-molony-belfast-new-york-southampton-sink-april-1912-a7504236.html
|title=Titanic sank due to enormous uncontrollable fire, not iceberg, experts claim
|author=Rachael Pells
|pub=The Independent
|date=January 2, 2017
}}

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[[Category:Disasters and accidents]]
[[Category:Fires]]
[[Category:History]]
[[Category:Transport]]
[[Category:Merchant shipping]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Ireland]]
[[Category:New York]]
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[[Category:Culture and entertainment]]
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[[Category:RMS Titanic]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Theresa May's Brexit speech rules out single market membership</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <id>5008693</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>New category. See [[Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum#Possible move]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="3691" sha1="bcrxzqbsl6wpyvqmlqvlrvpzt9nbxcj" xml:space="preserve">{{date|January 18, 2017}}

{{United Kingdom}}
[[File:Theresa May.jpg|thumb|left|Prime Minister Theresa May. {{Image|UK Home Office}}]]

[[UK]] Prime Minister [[Theresa May]] yesterday announced the government's plans for how to proceed with the United Kingdom's exit, or &quot;[[Brexit]]&quot; (British exit), from the [[European Union]]. May stated the government would not seek to be a member of the [[Europe]]an {{w|European Single Market|single market}} and would instead seek a new trade relationship. May said the UK government would seek access to the single market without retaining formal membership in it.

May's speech stressed the need for friendliness between Britain and the EU but also ruled out any deal that did not allow the British government to control [[immigration]], or which would require Britain to continue being bound by decisions of the {{w|European Court of Justice}}. In yesterday's speech, May also ruled out continued membership of the customs union as this prevented Britain from negotiating trade deals with non-EU countries.

Theresa May also said Britain's contributions to the EU budget would cease, although some contributions would be made to some pan-European schemes. In her words, &quot;the days of Britain making vast contributions to the European Union every year will end&quot;. The speech also covered the legal status of both UK citizens living abroad and EU citizens living in the UK. May said she wished to guarantee the status of both, but that she also sought &quot;[[wikt:reciprocity|reciprocity]]&quot; before doing so, and noted &quot;one or two&quot; other countries had not been willing to do so.

Following May's speech the {{w|Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union}}, {{w|David Davis (British politician)|David Davis}}, echoed the Prime Minister in a speech he gave to [[UK Parliament|Parliament]], adding &quot;the final deal agreed between the UK and the EU will be put to a vote in both Houses of Parliament before it takes effect&quot;.

Next week, on January 24, the {{w|UK Supreme Court|Supreme Court}} is due to deliver a decision in a case challenging the government's right to issue Article 50—which starts the Brexit negotiations—without the consultation of Parliament.

{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 

*{{source|url=https://twitter.com/UKSupremeCourt/status/821719482846629888
|title=Judgment in Article 50 #Brexit case to be handed down on Tuesday 24 Jan at 9.30am
|author={{w|UK Supreme Court}}
|pub=Twitter
|date=January 18, 2017
}}
*{{source|url=https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech
|title=The government's negotiating objectives for exiting the EU: PM speech
|author=[[Theresa May]]
|pub=GOV.UK
|date=January 17, 2017
}}
*{{source|url=https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/statement-on-a-new-partnership-with-the-eu
|title=Statement on a new partnership with the EU
|author={{w|David Davis (British politician)|David Davis}}
|pub=GOV.UK
|date=January 17, 2017
}}
*{{source|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38641207
|title=Brexit at-a-glance: What we learned from Theresa May
|author=Tom Moseley
|pub=BBC News Online
|date=January 17, 2017
}}

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[[Category:Immigration]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:UK Parliament]]
[[Category:Brexit]]

[[ca:Theresa May exposa el seu pla per sortir de la Unió Europea]]
[[es:Theresa May expone su plan para salir de la Unión Europea]]
[[pt:Brexit: Theresa May anuncia que Reino Unido deixará mercado único da UE]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Theresa May's Conservative Party wins UK election but loses majority, leaving Brexit plan in question</title>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>New category. See [[Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum#Possible move]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="5673" sha1="5bivk2wvrvsu5bz3uqtpeevu5sb97yo" xml:space="preserve">{{United Kingdom}}
{{date|June 11, 2017}}

While [[Theresa May]] remains Prime Minister of [[United Kingdom|Britain]], her party, the [[Conservative Party (UK)|Conservative Party]], won {{w|United Kingdom general election, 2017|Thursday's general election}} but lost its {{w|Parliamentary majority|majority}} in [[UK Parliament|Parliament]].

{{missing image|File:Theresa May (cropped).png|thumb|left|File photo of Theresa May, 2017. {{image|Controller of Her Majesty’s Stationery Office}}}}
The next scheduled general election was not until 2020.  May requested this general election, called a snap election, in April, when polls indicated it would strengthen the then-slight majority the Conservatives held in Parliament.  Talks to establish the specifics of Britain's [[2016 UK EU referendum|departure from the European Union]] are set to begin June 19.  Last year, British voters decided to leave the EU, but many of the specifics of the United Kingdom's new relationship with the rest of Europe have yet to be established.  May and the other Conservatives favor a &quot;hard [[Brexit]]&quot;, in which Britain would lose its current level of access to Europe's single market and have to deal with higher tariffs and more complicated customs processes but it would regain full control of its borders with respect to trade and immigration.&lt;!--Independent--&gt;  An increase in the number of Conservative Parliamentary seats would have supported this plan.

&quot;Officially Theresa May is still the partner in Brexit negotiations,&quot; said senior [[Germany|German]] MP {{w|Stephan Meyer}}, &quot;but the political reality is different after this disastrous defeat. I can't imagine that May will be able to remain prime minister.&quot;

{{w|Jean-Claude Juncker}} of the [[European Commission]] said, &quot;As far as the Commission is concerned we can open negotiations tomorrow morning at half past nine [...] First we have to agree on the divorce and exit modalities, and then we have to envisage the architecture of our future relations. I do hope that the result of the elections will have no major impact on the negotiations we are desperately waiting for.&quot; &lt;!--BBC--&gt;

A {{w|Parliamentary majority}} requires 326 of the organisation's 650 seats.  The Conservative Party holds 318 outright, including May's own seat in {{w|Maidenhead}}, and the [[Labour Party (UK)|Labour Party]] holds 262, having gained about 30 in this election.  In Britain, the leader of whichever political party has the most seats becomes Prime Minister, though they are also formally appointed by the monarch.  Theresa May became leader of the Conservative Party on July 11 of last year and was appointed by [[Queen Elizabeth II]] two days later.  Cases in which no political party wins outright are called a {{w|hung Parliament}}, and then two or more parties rule together in coalition.  Britain had a coalition government from 2010 to 2015.&lt;!--Sun--&gt; [[Northern Ireland]]'s {{w|Democratic Unionist Party}} has pledged an unofficial alliance with the Conservatives, which would bring them up to 328&lt;!--Reuters--&gt;.

This would make May the second Prime Minister in a row to call an election with unexpected results.  [[David Cameron]] called for a referendum on Britain's EU membership, not expecting the voters would reject it.&lt;!--Reuters--&gt;

May's current ministry said most of her senior officials, including Treasurer {{w|Philip Hammond}}, Foreign Secretary [[Boris Johnson]], and Home Secretary {{w|Amber Rudd}}, will remain in the Cabinet.&lt;!--AP--&gt;

May met with [[Queen Elizabeth II]] yesterday to request her permission to form a government in her name, a traditional formality.&lt;!--Reuters--&gt;

{{haveyoursay}}

== Related news ==
*{{wikinews|Theresa May calls for June general election|April 21, 2017}}

== Sources == 
*{{source
|url=https://apnews.com/9ed90d41fcb64d05b31b8d0f5483e6f9/Clinging-on-to-her-job,-Britain's-May-appoints-new-ministers
|title=UK leader May strikes tentative deal with N Ireland party
|author=Jill Lawless
|pub=Associated Press
|date=June 10, 2017
}}
*{{Source|url=http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15339802.Europe___s_key_players_Tusk_and_Juncker_keen_to_get_on_with_Brexit_talks/?ref=rss
|title=Europe’s key players Tusk and Juncker keen to get on with Brexit talks
|pub=The National (Scotland)
|author=Kirsteen Paterson
|date=June 10, 2017
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-idUSKBN18Z2UQ
|title  = Election debacle leaves UK government in a minority on eve of Brexit talks
|author = David Milliken, Kate Holton
|pub    = Reuters
|date   = June 9, 2017
}}
*{{source
|url    = http://www.bbc.com/news/world-40215432
|title  = UK election result: How the world reacted
|author = 
|pub    = BBC
|date   = June 9, 2017 
}}
*{{source|url    = https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3354279/general-election-uk-prime-minister-vote/
|title  =  What is a general election, how is the Prime Minister elected and who is allowed to vote in the UK?
|author = Becky Pemberton
|pub    = The Sun
|date   = June 9, 2017
}}
*{{source
|url    = http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-hard-soft-what-is-the-difference-uk-eu-single-market-freedom-movement-theresa-may-a7342591.html
|title  = What is the difference between hard and soft Brexit? Everything you need to know
|author = Alexandra Sims
|pub    = The Independent
|date   = October 3, 2016
}}

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[[CAT: Elections]]
[[CAT: United Kingdom]]
[[CAT: Theresa May]]
[[CAT: Conservative Party (UK)]]
[[CAT: Labour Party (UK)]]
[[CAT: Northern Ireland]]
[[CAT: Politics and conflicts]]
[[CAT: 2016 UK EU referendum]]
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[[Category:Brexit]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Football: Lewandowski's hat-trick against Armenia makes him Poland's top-scorer, close to World Cup qualification</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <id>5008667</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Update category. See [[Talk:Belfast#c-Heavy_Water-20240715224600-Michael.C.Wright-20240704161700]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="4894" sha1="am1n7046lix2qw85zlnl1h1gu44jp2h" xml:space="preserve">{{date|October 8, 2017}}{{football}}
On Thursday, [[Poland|Polish]] {{w|striker (association football)|striker}} [[Robert Lewandowski]] surpassed {{W|Włodzimierz Lubański}}'s goal scoring record for the country in a qualifying match against [[Armenia]] for next year's {{W|FIFA World Cup}}. Lewandowski equalled Lubanski's record of 48 goals in the eighteenth minute of the game, and became new top-scorer after scoring another in the 25th minute. Lubanski had scored 48 goals for Poland in 75 matches.

Poland's {{w|Kamil Grosicki}} opened the scoring just two minutes after the kick-off. Lewandowski scored his 48th goal via a free-kick in the eighteenth minute and 49th goal in the 25th minute. {{w|Hovhannes Hambardzumyan}} scored a header, the only goal for Armenia, in the 39th minute. The first half ended in a 3&amp;ndash;1 lead for Poland in {{W|Yerevan}}. In the second half, {{w|Jakub Błaszczykowski}} scored the fourth goal for Poland. Lewandowski, who was playing his 90th international match, completed his {{w|hat-trick|anchor=Association football}} when he scored his 50th international goal in the 64th minute. Just minutes before final time, {{w|Rafał Wolski}} scored the sixth goal for Poland.

Lewandowski has now scored fifteen goals in the qualification matches, setting up a new record of most goals scored in {{W|UEFA European Qualifiers|European Qualifiers}}. The previous record was set by {{W|Yogislavia|Yogislavian}} {{W|Predrag Mijatović}}, who scored fourteen goals. [[Portugal|Portuguese]] forward [[Cristiano Ronaldo]] equalled Mijatović's record in August, scored a goal yesterday&lt;!--on Saturday--&gt; and became the joint top-scorer with Lewandowski in European Qualifiers.

With the 6&amp;ndash;1 victory over Armenia, Poland has won 22 points in nine qualification matches, and sits on the top of the Group E table. They need just one point to earn direct qualification for the World Cup. Their next game is against [[Montenegro]] in [[Warsaw]], scheduled for today&lt;!--on Sunday--&gt;.

On the same day, defending world champions [[Germany]] defeated [[Northern Ireland]] 3&amp;ndash;1 in [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] and qualified for the World Cup with nine victories in nine qualification matches. [[England]] defeated [[Slovenia]] 1&amp;ndash;0 and qualified for the World Cup too. On Friday, [[Spain]] defeated [[Albania]] 3&amp;ndash;0 and joined Germany and England to qualify.
{{Clear}}
----
{{footballbox 
|date= October 5, 2017 
|team1= [[Armenia]] [[File:Flag of Armenia.svg|30px|link=]]
|score= 1&amp;ndash;6
|team2= [[File:Flag of Poland.svg|border|30px|link=]] [[Poland]]
|report= 1&amp;ndash;3 (HT)
|goals1= {{w|Hovhannes Hambardzumyan}} {{goal|39}}
|goals2= {{w|Kamil Grosicki}} {{goal|2}}&lt;br&gt;{{w|Robert Lewandowski}} {{goal|18', 25', 64}}&lt;br&gt;{{w|Jakub Błaszczykowski}} {{goal|58}}&lt;br&gt;{{w|Rafał Wolski}} {{goal|89}}
|stadium= &lt;!-- I could add this, I would generally agree for extra source if it provides information, but it would slow down review process --&gt;
|referee=
}}
{{haveyoursay}}

== Sources == 

*{{source
|url    = http://www.uefa.com/european-qualifiers/news/newsid=2497563.html
|title  = Ronaldo levels Lewandowski's European Qualifiers goal record
|author = Paul Saffer
|pub    = UEFA
|date   = October 8, 2017
}} &lt;!-- taking some time to load, be patient --&gt;
*{{source
|url    = http://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2017/10/06/59d7e821468aebc30b8b45a4.html
|title  = Spain book World Cup ticket
|author = Arch Bell
|pub    = Marca (newspaper)
|date   = October 6, 2017
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://fcbayern.com/us/news/2017/10/lewandowski-sets-poland-record-in-wc-qualifying
|title  =  Lewandowski sets Poland record 
|author = 
|pub    = FC Bayern
|date   = October 5, 2017
}}
*{{source
|url    = http://www.espn.in/football/poland/story/3221099/robert-lewandowski-becomes-polands-all-time-leading-scorer
|title  = Robert Lewandowski becomes Poland's all-time leading scorer
|author = 
|pub    = ESPN FC
|date   = October 5, 2017
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2017/10/05/germany-england-seal-world-cup-qualification-poland-close/106343272/
|title  = Germany, England seal World Cup qualification; Poland close
|author = [[Associated Press|AP]]
|pub    = USA Today
|date   = October 5, 2017
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://twitter.com/FIFAWorldCup/status/916048895347527680
|title  = FIFA on Twitter
|author = [[fifa|FIFA]]
|pub    = Twitter
|date   = October 5, 2017
}}

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[[Category:Football (soccer)]]
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[[Category:Robert Lewandowski]]
[[Category:Armenia]]
[[Category:Football match reports]]
[[Category:Europe]]

[[Category:Acagastya (Wikinewsie)]]
[[Category:Asia]]
[[Category:Jakub Błaszczykowski]]
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  <page>
    <title>UK Parliament begins debate on Brexit deal</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
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      <comment>New category. See [[Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum#Possible move]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="2448" sha1="qjh3d9a8406t2kuy63oz6jvd1etecq7" xml:space="preserve">{{United Kingdom}}
{{date|December 6, 2018}}
On Tuesday, the [[United Kingdom Parliament]] started five days of debates ahead of a vote over Prime Minister [[Theresa May]]'s deal to leave the [[European Union]].
[[File:Theresa May Official.jpg|left|thumb|File photo of Theresa May, 2017. {{image|Controller of Her Majesty's Stationery Office/ Andrew Parson}}]]
The deal being debated is a withdrawal agreement for the [[United Kingdom]] (UK)'s exit from the [[European Union]] (EU), and a political framework defining ambitions for the future of the UK&amp;ndash;EU relationship.

{{QuoteRight|I have spent nearly two years negotiating this deal|10px|10px|Theresa May}}

In a statement to the [[UK House of Commons|House of Commons]] shortly before debates began, Theresa May said &quot;I have spent nearly two years negotiating this deal [...] I have lost valued colleagues along the way, I have faced fierce criticism from all sides. If I had banged the table, walked out of the room, and at the end of the process delivered the very same deal that is before us today, some might say that I'd done a better job.&quot;

Following the debates, a vote in the House of Commons is to determine if the deal will be implemented. The vote is scheduled for next Tuesday, December 11.

{{haveyoursay}}

== Related news ==
*{{wikinews|title=Britain votes to leave the European Union|date=June 25, 2016}}

== Sources == 

*{{source
|url    = https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/04/theresa-may-makes-final-brexit-plea-debate-on-deal-begins
|title  = Theresa May makes final Brexit plea as debate on deal begins
|author = Peter Walker
|pub    = The Guardian
|date   = December 4, 2018
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/pm-may-suffers-setbacks-as-brexit-debate-starts-in-parliament-idUSKBN1O22O1
|title  = PM May suffers setbacks as Brexit debate starts in parliament
|author = Elizabeth Piper, William James, Kylie MacLellan
|pub    = Reuters
|date   = December 4, 2018
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46400897
|title  = Brexit deal: How MPs debate and vote will work
|author = Daniel Kraemer
|pub    = BBC News
|date   = December 3, 2018
}}

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    <title>User talk:Darkfrog24/Archive 1</title>
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== [[Chemotherapy cocktail may stimulate rejuvenation of ova in adult women]] ==

Hi.  Fortunately nothing bad came of it in this case, but, please don't edit the article while it's {{tl|under review}}.  (In fact, I quite agree with both edits you made; it's not just a matter of potential edit conflicts, though, it can be confusing, not to say frustrating, to immerse oneself in an article for in-depth review only to have it shift under one's metaphorical feet.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:08, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:Haven't seen you in a couple years Pi zero.  How've you been? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:13, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:: Cooking up something to try to rescue... well, when I started I thought I was trying to rescue Wikinews from neglect by the Foundation, but now I've come to the Awful Realization I'm trying to rescue the entire sisterhood from misjudgments by the Foundation.  I'd finally given up on Wikipedia, whose problems I figured were just too big for me so I'd stick to something more modest (yeah, that didn't work out quite how I'd envisioned).  (From a quick glance at your en.wp user talk, I think I ''shouldn't ask'' how things are going for you over there.)  Anyway, to the point. &lt;p&gt; The article avoids a whole lot of problems that first-time contributors over here often have.  The current draft does need work; see my '''[[Talk:Chemotherapy cocktail may stimulate rejuvenation of ova in adult women#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4268150 [Not ready]}}|review comments]]''' (and, of course, {{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Chemotherapy cocktail may stimulate rejuvenation of ova in adult women|action=history}}|detailed history of edits during review}}; some of that is personal preference, some not so much).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:07, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Heh, if you've seen my user talk, then you already know.  ''Let's talk about you.''
:::What's the sisterhood? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:12, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:::: {{tl|sisterprojects}}.  My understanding of the terminology is that a &quot;sister&quot; cuts across languages (or I'm just wrong about that) &amp;mdash; so there are only about a dozen sisters, lots of languages, and the number of projects is something less than the product of those two numbers.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:30, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::So you think that the Wikimedia Foundation is misjudging the Wikipedias, Wikinews, Wiktionary and other projects? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:35, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::: I think the Foundation is under a number of deep misapprehensions about the sisters, yes.  Starting with the relationship between the Foundation and the sisters; it's there to find in the wording of the mission, iirc, but words are what you make of them.  The Foundation does ''not'' share with the volunteers a mission of educating the world; the Foundation is not responsible for information providing, that's the volunteer's job; the Foundation's job is to ''empower'' the volunteers to be information providers.  The volunteers come to participate in information providing By the People; it's about ordinary human beings having a voice in the information flow.  The thing that makes that possible is wiki markup; I go into that some in [[User:Pi zero/essays/vision/sisters]].  The Foundation keeps trying to centralize control of everything, which is directly at odds both with the grassroots, bottom-up nature of the wikis, and with the Foundation's proper mission of ''empowering'' the volunteers.  The Foundation has this robustly constructed, self-consistent set of answers for everything &amp;mdash; including why participation in Wikipedia was going up and up until right about the time the Foundation finished getting set up and kicked its agenda into high gear (this is when the position of Executive Director was filled), after which the volunteer communities have shrunk.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:54, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::: I really need to develop an elevator speech for that stuff.&amp;nbsp;:-P&amp;nbsp; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:33, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Why do you think membership took a hit?  These days I see a lot of people citing increasingly hostile environments, and one guy I know IRL says that's to be expected whenever an online project hits critical mass.  I agree, but I think part of it might also be the economy.  During the mid-aughts, there was a whole generation of highly educated people starved for intellectual activity who had nothing better to do, but now that the job market's picked up, there are more people willing to pay them for their time, so off they went. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:47, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
{{outdent|:::::::}}
Ah, cause of membership decline.  I'll take a stab at that, below... after explaining why I think it's the wrong question. &lt;p&gt; The Foundation has this mindset it's got stuck in; asking certain questions that lock in required assumptions is part of it.  I even know better and yet find myself naturally drawn into the game of asking these questions.  The Foundation by asking why the membership decline skips glibly over questions of what their role is, what the volunteers' role is, and why the membership ever grew in the first place.  I see the Foundation failing to understand any of those things, and once they've got those basics wrong there's no way they can choose right actions.  Why did the sisterhood succeed in the first place?  Mainly two things:  idealism and wiki markup; the Foundation has been undermining the first through not understanding it, and the second through failing to understand its importance and instead trying to move away from it. &lt;p&gt;  Saying this sort of membership decline happens whenever a project reaches a critical mass is completely begging the question of ''why''.  Various excuses can be offered, but I do maintain that a crucial factor is a form of {{w|Conway's Law}}:  the Foundation is a centralized, top-down organization and creates software reflecting this, which fundamentally fails to meet the needs of the inherently distributed, bottom-up wiki contributor base.  Also, the idealism that is crucial to motivating the volunteers is based on the perception that the wikis are information-providing &quot;by the People&quot;, and the Foundation seems to think it should be a sort of cheerleader for the wikis but the more it cheerleads the more it destroys the appearance that the wikis are a grass-roots movement and thereby undermines the idealism that is the core source of volunteerism for the projects.  It's also, btw, supremely ironic that one of the greatest goods done by Wikipedia was to stem the tide of rampant propaganda on the internet, yet the Foundation's cheerleading has gone systemic so that the Foundation is now itself a ''source'' of propaganda.  While we're listing reasons for declining membership, I agree that sour social atmosphere (aka &quot;increasingly hostile environments&quot;) is also involved, and would add that the principle of AGF, with its surrounding supporting principles of civility and etiquette, have nurtured the problem. &lt;p&gt; Btw, congrats!  You're a published journalist on Wikinews.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:49, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

::So you're crediting the Wikipedia interface, as opposed to something like the new visual editor, with helping Wikipedia grow.  Because ...you think it's accessible?  Because it's accessible only to certain people?  And you think the Foundation should be a lot more hands-off?  And you think that AGF made things worse ...by allowing certain people to get away with things?
::Oh no, the person I know said that the ''environment becomes hostile'' when projects reach critical mass.
::''Awesome''!!  That oughtta look good on the ol' block appeal.  I don't think they were too impressed with my translating the Euryarchaota subcategory into Spanish.  That's not-in-English twice over.  And here I was ready to give you the old &quot;Oh well.  It's nothing personal&quot; speech.  Wikinews seems scant on micro and cell biology coverage in any case.  I see a niche here. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
::: I'm hesitating to get into the wiki markup issue (because it's such a time sink), and as usual that probably means it'll all come out backwards in dribs and drabs so my position won't end up in its best light.  But yes, wiki markup is crucial to the success of the wikis.  No software that isn't based on plain text can have real flexibility or real permanence to it; programming languages still use plain text after people have been trying for half a century to make a go of &quot;visual programming languages&quot;.  And wiki markup is extraordinarily easy &amp;mdash; compared to the alternatives; yes things can be done to make it easier to use, but to do so without killing the goose that lays the golden eggs you have to understand ''why'' it's worked so well.  Part of that is that even the most casual edit &amp;mdash; a spelling correction, which as I recall was my first wiki edit &amp;mdash; causes the user to ''see'' wiki markup that others have written; there's not much to it, and what there is, users tend to pick up by osmosis through constant exposure.  Except, of course, that VE systematically deprives users of that exposure and thereby prevents them from learning.  While the introduction of other languages such as Lua and javascript (not that I don't think Lua a very nice little procedural language, reminds me of an old-time VW beetle) simply locks ordinary wiki users out of infrastructure development, the sort of centralization I'd expect to be favored by a centralized organization like the Foundation.  It's all killing the wiki volunteer community by inches. &lt;p&gt; AGF.  The best thing I can say about AGF is that it's idealistic.  Not a small thing to say; idealism is the one thing that can motivate passionate volunteerism.  I remember when I first registered at Wikipedia and was presented with (tbh) vastly more rules regulations principles help pages and whatnot than I could possibly read, but quickly sorted out AGF as a key principle.  I thought, wow, this is totally unrealistic; this is insane, pie-in-the-sky idealism &amp;mdash; count me in.  It took me several years to fully grok AGF (discovering [[w:WP:ZEN|WP:ZEN]] was a milestone), and by then I was so indoctrinated that, when I finally got past Wikibooks (where I was a bit concerned to find they'd never officially adopted AGF, though they treated it as generally recommended) to Wikinews where AGF was actively rejected, I thought that was as crazy as I had originally thought AGF was.  After a few years here I understood that the reasons Wikinews gets along as well as it does without AGF are things about news writing that differ from encyclopedic writing, but I was still trying to be tolerant about Wikipedians, I guess, by taking the position that AGF was right for Wikipedia even though it was manifestly wrong for Wikinews (eventually we wrote down what had been done here for years, at [[WN:Never assume]]).  Until finally I admitted that AGF doesn't work on Wikipedia, either.  My short-list of problems with AGF was that (1)&amp;nbsp;if taken literally, it says to assume something, which is a bad thing to teach to information providers; (2)&amp;nbsp;if taken for what it actually means &amp;mdash; cf. [[w:WP:ZEN|WP:ZEN]] &amp;mdash; it says to say something different than one means, which is also bad to teach to information providers; and (3)&amp;nbsp;people who ''don't'' mean well (in one sense or another) can learn to use it as first a shield and then a weapon, defending themselves by requiring others to AGF, and needling others until their victims are provoked into reacting in a way that gets their victims into trouble from failing to AGF.  What one does instead is, I freely admit, difficult to work out; it doesn't seem to me that [[WN:Never assume]] in its form here would work there, but just what ''would'' work there I don't know (and I don't immediately see a path that would lead en.wp to exchange AGF for something else).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== [[Aleppo evacuation resumes after claims of weapon smuggling, roadblocks]] ==

Alas.  Heavily covered developing stories tend to be a difficult fit for the Wikinews workflow model; I remember when Mubarak was overthrown we had an appallingly difficult time covering it (there was little review labor available at the time while the article would repeatedly lose freshness in a matter of hours due to further dramatic developments).  In the aftermath of the Mubarak overthrow I put some thought into how we could better cover such things, but I never really came up with much of a solution, and we have more basic infrastructural challenges that I felt/feel need to be addressed first (and that I've been pouring my time into for pretty much all the time since then).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:26, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:I imagine this would be less of a problem if Wikinews got more foot traffic.  Still, I came into this with a win-some-lose-some approach.  If the article on Aleppo has aged out then it's aged out.  At least we got all those nice comments about the electoral college article. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:52, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:: I remember after the first of the Romney-Obama debates &amp;mdash; the one everyone agreed Romney had won, and Republicans crowed about it while Democrats said it was simply because Romney had lied his ass off from start to finish, which Obama hadn't had a prepared strategy to counter &amp;mdash; we wrote a (rather minor) article on it, and someone commented that they were being required to write a paper about it for school, and having searched on the subject, they said, we had the only neutral article about that debate on the entire internet.&amp;nbsp;:-P&amp;nbsp; Moments like that do encourage us to keep going. &lt;p&gt; One of the regular long-time Wikinewsies (Bddpaux) regularly advises prospective Wikinews contributors to be willing to let an article go &amp;mdash; &quot;don't marry the article&quot;, I think he once put it &amp;mdash; write it, submit it, and move on.  Your willingness to win some and lose some (which sounds a very healthy attitude, to me) may help explain why you've been doing fairly well here.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:30, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Well yes and no one has filed any heavily falsified complaints about me to WN's equivalent of AE or laid down a sanction without telling me what I supposedly did.  That helps immensely.
:::The impression I'm getting is that Wikinews concerns the news in some way but is not about journalism as it is generally understood.  With journalism, it is accepted that there will be some editorializing, but that doesn't seem to fly here.  There's also less tolerance for the elements of writing as art that we would see in news features.  This is more like Factcheck.org than like any newspaper I've seen.  The service that it provides to the reader is very different.  If something's tripping up new users, that might be it.  They think they're supposed to write news articles. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:59, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
:::: Had to look that one up.  Arbitration enforcement?  As in ArbCom?  Sounds like Secret Police. &lt;p&gt; This is news.  Hard news, as opposed to soft news.  We resist some trends in current msm, including a blurring of the line between reporting and editorializing.  Cf. [http://ro.uow.edu.au/lhapapers/428/].  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:49, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

:::::Sometimes it feels that way.
:::::Yes, but &quot;hard news&quot; can still have funnel openings or start with a detail and has a variety of writing styles, some of them quite artistic.  If those are trends, they're trends that have been holding for literally centuries.  This is a lot more uniform.  And editorializing isn't remotely new.  If anything, the 20th century saw a decline in the practice (you should have seen what they were printing in the 1770s). [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:00, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::: Yes, the ideal of objective news has never existed perfectly (of course, perfection never does), and broadly speaking the closest things have come to that ideal was in the twentieth century.  Sure.  Wikinews represents a unique strategy at the intersection of journalism and wiki, resulting in something that has some unusual properties as journalism and some unusual properties as wiki.  Offering, if I may say, some needed input into the blend of the journalism world, and some needed input into the blend of the wiki world.  We grapple with many of the same journalistic challenges as the big msm outlets, and many of the same wiki challenges as the biggest wikis.  Other &quot;citizen journalism&quot; efforts with fewer ideals have come and gone while we continue forward.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 11:59, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I am under the impression that Wikinews doesn't have much readership, that people who get their news from Project Wiki do so through Wikipedia instead.  Are there any metrics on this? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 06:25, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
{{outdent|::::::}}
On one hand, one of the evils of commercial news is to care more about readership than quality.  It's good that google news recognizes Wikinews as a news site rather than a blog (thus, in the same class as AlJaz, BBC, AFP, etc. rather than, say, Wikipedia), but I take that as evidence of google being right about something rather than as some sort of needed validation for us.  What we do would be valid even if google were to get that wrong.  I don't often bother to dig into such statistics; I recall a theory suggested a while back that we ''may'' get more traffic from our Facebook page than from gnews, anyway.  I don't know all that much about facebook statistics, and don't have access to very much since facebook decided a few years ago that I wasn't human unless I had a desire to give them my phone number, which I found an especially offensive demand from them because they were pretending their reason for asking was about verification rather than advertising (I took that to be essentially a lie and I have much contempt for liars); but I do note, at this writing, our Facebook page says near the top, &quot;119,097 people like this&quot;.  Somewhere in there we've migrated from one hand toward the other hand, which would be actual numbers.  One can, once stats become available following whatever technical delays, get a general sense of article view stats by looking on the article's history page, near the top where it says &quot;External tools: Page view statistics&quot;.  According to which, for example, our recent article [[Hijackers divert Libyan passenger jet to Malta]] got 489 hits yesterday.  I see in that no evidence that our readership is dropping off.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 12:27, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
:I share your contempt for liars.  I was trying to return an item to a store once, receipt in my hand and they kept demanding my phone number.  I was all, &quot;I don't want you to call me.&quot; &quot;We won't.&quot; &quot;Then why do you want my phone number?&quot;
:I mean this more along the lines of &quot;Yeah, but is anyone reading this?&quot; Does Wikinews serve the public, the way that we know Wikipedia serves the public?  There's also the questioof whether Wikinews is redundant. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:51, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
:: Wikinews is definitely not redundant; there's nothing else like it, we produce output and training that nobody else does.  Yes, Wikinews does a public service, in both those aspects.  Btw, also in the area of stats I don't have at my fingertips, I recall a (now former) Wikinewsie had some impressive statistics on the use of our archives, which get a lot of traffic.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:46, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
::: There is another aspect to this, btw.  I was just making the point that we ''now'' provide a valuable public service.  There's also the question of our potential.  I see the potential for Wikinews to become something that can transform the human condition in as profound a way as (but, of course, differently than) Wikipedia has done.  To bring about a vast effect from merely human actions requires a vision of the dynamics of things, where small inputs will have large long-term consequences; determination; and a willingness to persevere despite ridicule because there's no way to prove one is right except after the fact.  I'm inclined to immerse myself in the subtle dynamics of a system and find my way to the point from which the behavior of the whole system can be tuned (recalling the punchline of an old joke, &quot;knowing where to tap&quot;).  One thing I don't know how to do, thus far, is succinctly explain my vision, or the means by which I'm pursuing it, alas; I do note that what I'm doing seems to me fundamentally not something a centralized org like the WMF would be capable of doing, and my inability to succinctly articulate seems consistent with that &amp;mdash; a big centralized organization wants ''plans'', all laid out carefully ahead of time, and therefore about the most alien thing for such an org would be a development effort that inherently cannot be foreseen, requiring improvisation every step of the way.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:58, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
::::I don't mean to ridicule your efforts here.  That's not what I meant at all.  But as you've probably guessed, I wouldn't be here if I hadn't been blocked from Wikipedia or if my work at es.wiki had been recognized as valuable, and I'm getting an early start on collecting the information to use to decide whether and how much to continue at Wikinews after the block is lifted.  I enjoy the collaboration that we have on project Wiki and I like the contribution that it makes to the accessibility of human knowledge, but whether the articles are read by the public vs. whether we're just entertaining each other (and there's nothing wrong with that) makes a difference.  Like anyone who went through standard schooling, I spent years writing essays and reports that were going to be read once and thrown away.  It seems that a least a few people read these articles, at least right now.
::::Don't worry too much about explaining the vision.  The plan is that I'm here at least until March.  I wouldn't mind talking more about your ideas, but I expect I'll pick a little of it up as I go. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:15, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
::::: I do understand (and do not take ill) you washed up here because you couldn't get your wikimedian fix from Wikipedia atm.  I didn't take your remarks as ridicule; I would not expect that of you, as I recall our disagreements at WP:MOS as quite respectful.  My intended point was simply that participation on Wikinews sometimes entails taking some flak for it, as does pursuit of any project with a long lead-time.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 17:49, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::Good to know.  There have been too many misunderstandings lately.  After all that time at WP:MoS and WP:COPYEDIT, I've got quite a high tolerance for putting effort into things that others do not appreciate (or, if done well, never notice). [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:06, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

== Duplicate article ==

There's an article on the review queue about Debbie Reynolds.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:50, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
:I see.  I only checked the development page. Fast work. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:54, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
:: The Newsroom has sections for everything prior to publication, if it's refreshed. &lt;p&gt; Zanimum was writing an article about &quot;Debbie Reynolds hospitalized&quot;, then at 2:04UTC renamed it with &quot;Debbie Reynolds dies&quot;.  Though I'm too tired to do a review tonight, so either someone else picks it up or it waits eight, nine hours or more.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Nine hours.  Whatever shall we do?  Wikinews does have more than two reviewers, right? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:02, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
:::: I recall Gryllida, Bddpaux, and RockerballAustralia doing reviews within the past... few months?  Review labor shortfall is a basic imbalance in the dynamic equation of Wikinews, central in my thinking about project infrastructure.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:22, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::I like the term &quot;limiting reagent.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:32, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::: That's quite good, yes.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 05:07, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Shall I tag [[Debbie Reynolds, U.S. actress, singer and performer, dies one day after daughter Carrie Fisher|this duplicate article]] for deletion? The other one is pending review. --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 09:01, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
:Might be best if I did it.  How does the tag work? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:36, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
::Since intent was clearly expressed here, I took care of it (with sufficient info in the edit description for someone to reconstruct the grounds for deletion).  The template would be {{tl|delete}}, anything that clearly expressed the grounds for the request would do in such a situation (e.g., {{tl|delete|author request}}).  If you want it undeleted for some reason, of course, we can do that.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:58, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
:::Nah.  I transplanted most of the good stuff to the other one. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:00, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

== Relative date ==

Here's what I recommend:  When using the term &quot;today&quot; or &quot;yesterday&quot; in an article (or &quot;tomorrow&quot;, though we use that a lot less), embed an html comment after it naming the weekday.  Such as
: &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;Yesterday&lt;!-- On Thursday --&gt;,&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;
This makes it vastly easier for reviewers (and anyone else editing things) to keep track of which day is actually meant as time passes.  It's useful not only in case the article doesn't get published the same day it's written, but also, even if it ''is'' published the same day, when [[WN:Make lead|making it a lead]] on the main page one edits the lede to use a day of the week rather than &quot;today&quot; or &quot;yesterday&quot; and this makes it much easier to remember to do that and to get it right.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:19, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
:I saw a couple of those.  Didn't know what they were for. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:43, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

== Election article ==

....please see my review comments. --[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:41, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

== {{tl|under review}} ==

BRS has the Obama farewell address article tagged {{tl|under review}}.  Just to note.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:04, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:Yeah, I noticed that about a second after the edit conflict.  Really have been watching for that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:09, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
::It happens :) [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:10, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

== Need help on &quot;[[At least 26 killed in another Brazil prison riot]]&quot; ==

Hey, Darkfrog. I need your assistance on &quot;[[At least 26 killed in another Brazil prison riot]]&quot;. I haven't yet submitted a request for review. I hope you can help me on this. Thank you.  --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 09:30, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
:What does it need?  Copyedit?  Sourcing? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:14, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

== Knock, knock. ==

[[File:Team Barnstar Hires.png|left|thumb|A team barnstar for you! A total of seven news articles were published on January 18, 2017, including yours! Cheers.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 10:47, 19 January 2017 (UTC)]]
THANKS!  THIS IS SO NICE! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:25, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
{{ping|AGastya}} ...is it okay if I fix the typo?  I want to display the thing on my userpage and I don't want you to be embarassed.  If you don't care, just don't respond.  It's just a &quot;yous&quot; instead of &quot;yours.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:03, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

::I guess the problem is solved now. I feel like [http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3b/3b24853f3ae250de5a281bf9c6fda8fe1f312b4d1e06f5a738efc322f0612141.jpg Woody].&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:47, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

== [[Donald Trump inaugurated as 45th U.S. president]] ==

Was wondering if you are going to write about the story. There is a chance somebody else might jump to contribute to the article, use {{tl|editing}} template. And it seems, AlvaroMolina is writing the same story on other page.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:14, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
:{{replyto|AGastya}} I plan to write more when I'm done with my work, but I absolutely don't mind if someone builds on what I've already written, even if it ends up looking completely different.  As for duplicate pages, that's the nature of the Wikibeast.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:27, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
::It is the {{tl|ping}} template. When I edited your article, I felt there is a chance of edit conflict, that's why I notified you.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:33, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

== [[Donald Trump inaugurated as 45th U.S. president‎]] and [[Donald Trump assumes as the new U.S. president‎]] ==

Hi, I noticed that you were writing the article [[Donald Trump inaugurated as 45th U.S. president]], however, I did not notice and also accidentally created another article «[[Donald Trump assumes as the new U.S. president‎]]». I would like to know if you want me to integrate what I have written to your article or conversely. I wait your answer. Regards. [[File:Alvaro Molina.png|20px|link=]] [[User:AlvaroMolina|&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:100%; color:darkblue; text-shadow:blue 2px 1px 2px&quot;&gt;Alvaro Molina&lt;/span&gt;]] '''('''[[User Talk:AlvaroMolina|&lt;font color=&quot;#006408&quot;&gt;'''Let's Talk'''&lt;/font&gt;]]''')''' 19:28, 20 January 2017 (UTC) &lt;small&gt;Sorry if my English is not good.&lt;/small&gt;

:1) I have absolutely no problem if you want to incorporate your stuff into the article that I started or copy text from the article I started into yours.  '''Yours already has sources.''' 
:2) The inauguration is such a big story that there could be more than one article.  The one I started could be deleted or shifted to focus on just one part of the inauguration, like the protesters.

Mainly, I was worried that Wikinews wouldn't cover this at all. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:31, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
::I will integrate what I have written in your article, yours also has the advantage of being written in a more fluent English and perhaps mine is not the case. Likewise, these things often happen when one does not look at recent changes. [[File:Alvaro Molina.png|20px|link=]] [[User:AlvaroMolina|&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:100%; color:darkblue; text-shadow:blue 2px 1px 2px&quot;&gt;Alvaro Molina&lt;/span&gt;]] '''('''[[User Talk:AlvaroMolina|&lt;font color=&quot;#006408&quot;&gt;'''Let's Talk'''&lt;/font&gt;]]''')''' 19:35, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
:::As you have mentioned on your userpage that you have es-2 degree of understanding, Darkfrog24, you and AlvaroMolina can translate from Spanish Wikinews and add more information to the story. I think there will be a good long article about the event. Good luck to both!&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:40, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

== How about... ==

Why do we have two articles &lt;small&gt;([[Trump inauguration draws protesters, peaceful and otherwise]] and [[Donald Trump inaugurated as 45th U.S. president]]&lt;/small&gt;? I was thinking why not include the reaction to the inauguration article? It can provide the readers overall idea rather than going to the second story to find out. Finally, it is up to you, but /I/ feel one article describing it can also be okay.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 13:57, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
:Because they're about two different things.  One is about the inauguration in general and the other one is about the protesters.  Look at the New York Times or any other major publication.  They have more than one article about the inauguration, all focusing on different parts of the day.
:This discussion is best made on one or more of the collaboration pages of those articles. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:57, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
::I agree there is slight difference in the focus. But it can be included to the other article without losing most of the information and quality. I know that there are so many US based websites, which displays inauguration, protest, reaction, opinions, polls, ... And the same case is with some non American news websites like BBC and The Moscow Times which is kind of annoying because the whole home page of their website is filled with that news and I need to scroll down, make some clicks to find news about other ongoing events. Ah, lot of personal opinions for those websites. Well, I left the message on your talk because you are the author of this article, and co-author of that one. Finally, it is up to you.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:01, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

== You have a [[Talk:Trump inauguration draws protesters, peaceful and otherwise|new message]] ==

--Svetlana Tkachenko / [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:42, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

== Review trough ==

Alas.  Standing back from the details that appear to govern these things in specific cases, it's a very familiar pattern that when we have a big spike in review, as last week with those seven publications in one day, there's likely to be a trough in review activity for a while afterward.  Sorry the [[Trump inauguration draws protesters, peaceful and otherwise|innauguration-protest article]] hasn't gotten more prompt attention.&amp;nbsp;:-S&amp;nbsp;  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:52, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
:Just breathe, remember that you're a volunteer, and think of those dandelion summer slow news days.  Hey, maybe Trump will turn out to be a dull and sensible leader and leave us nothing to do but report on scientists making laser-activated ''ferrets'' this time. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:54, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
:There's been some unfortunate coincidences, too; the use of Spanish sources kept me out of one review, the protests made sense to be published after, and other times stuff has been reviewable have conflicted with Real Life. (I think we should think big, as Trump would have; if he's been quiet and sensible, let's have laser-activated ''rhinos''.) [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:24, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
:: We do have a [[:Category:Rhinoceros]], whereas it looks like we've only got one article on ferrets (from 2007).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:43, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

== Question ==

I was wondering if you would like to write about &quot;Mexico's President Pena Nieto calls off Trump meeting&quot;.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 17:17, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
:If you start it I'll swing by.  I don't know how much time I'm going to have. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:32, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
::I will finish [[German teenager sentenced six years for stabbing police officer]] in some time, and then, if you are not editing the Peña Nieto article, I would add something to it too. I would suggest using {{tl|editing}} template to avoid editing conflicts.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 15:00, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

== Thank you for the suggestion ==

Thanks a lot for your suggestion. I will surely take that into consideration. [[User:Krishna Kaasyap|Krishna Kaasyap]] ([[User talk:Krishna Kaasyap|talk]]) 02:02, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

== Spaces ==

I have noticed you use two spaces after the period, like typing of a typewriter. We don't use it online. If you want to remove multiple spaces, copy this &lt;code&gt;importScript('User:Agastya Chandrakant/space.js');&lt;/code&gt; to your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|Common JS page]]. You will find a link under the Tools section on the left-hand side, which reads Space fix. That will take care of the spaces.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 18:31, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
: I'm not in favor of removing double spaces, as I see it as losing information (there's no equally simple way to put the spaces ''back'' by looking at the text, so it must be losing information).  But, we know I first developed the habit of two spaces after a sentence-end by first learning to type on a typewriter (doesn't make it a bad idea, but that ''is'' where I picked it up).  So I really wonder about the correlation with online culture.  I do expect that if the software didn't fail by treating multiple spaces as if they were single spaces, the use of two spaces between sentences would be much more alive and well than it is.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:39, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
::Is ''that'' what all those edits of yours marked &quot;spaces&quot; are for?  Thank heck.  I thought I was leaving vertical space and then forgetting about it.  The Wikicode is actually rendered the same way.  Check this out.  There is one space after this sentence. And there are two after this one.  Use your select function as you roll over.  Don't they render the same?
:: In fact, adding or removing a double space is often used as a dummy edit (when you want to add an edit note but not the edit itself).   I prefer two spaces, but if they irk you, I don't mind if you remove them.  It's six to one half a dozen to the other. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:02, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
::: They are rendered the same way, yes.  The fact that they're rendered that way seems substantially responsible for the decline of the two-space sentence separator.  Like you I prefer two, finding it easier to read the raw text (where it is visible); but yeah, I wouldn't consider it worth raising a fuss about.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:23, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
::::I know that only one side is displayed, but that increases the size of the page. Since the two space is visible in the source only, it would not be useful until somebody is using the source, that to in wiki markup. Whatever it may be, it was never my primary reason to built the script. Darkfrog24, just because I remove it does not mean I am against it out I find it annoying.&lt;br&gt;[[User:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:#000000;&quot;&gt;Agastya Chandrakant&lt;/span&gt;]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:AGastya|&lt;span style=&quot; font-family:Helvetica; color:#333;font-size:125%&quot;&gt;⚽️ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰&lt;/span&gt;]] 07:08, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::Size as in file size and load time on slow connections or size as in just how much space it takes up on your screen? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:40, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

== Pacing ==

I'm doing this here because I want to talk to both of you. {{ping|Pi zero}} {{ping|Blood Red Sandman}}

Do you want me to slow down?  I'm having a good time covering American politics and the occasional laser mouse but there is a lot of it.  Sometimes even something that we do for fun can feel like an obligation, and not everyone needs that right now. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:18, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

: Well, you can see the rate at which I'm addressing your articles.  This Yemen article (now on its last day) is proving very challenging; I think in this case you may have underestimated the level of uncertainty and confusion in the story.  In practice this article looks to take up all my review attention for two days.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
::Okay.  You can imagine me taking notes here.  Basically I don't want to turn off other contributors by monopolizing the review team. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:37, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
::: I agree with BRS that it's good to have a collection of articles in the archives providing wider coherent coverage.  Atm, though, since we have an article by a Wikinewsie who hasn't been around much lately, I'm reviewing that, with the unfortunate consequence your two queued articles are sliding later.  With the weather where I am sapping some of my time/energy/attention, I seem to be getting about one full review in a day.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:51, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
:::: Alas and alack.  I missed reviewing today entirely; I did a neat ballpark estimate that I moved about five tons of snow, but I really mean to also review that other article.  I noticed you updated it, but, I think something more would be needed; I'm going to take a look now.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:00, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
::::: Yeah, it would need some sort of update.&amp;nbsp;:S --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:44, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
:(edit conflictx2) I've been neglecting enwn recently, and I know I have. I consider a bulk of US politics articles much more valuable to the archive than simply a sum of the parts contained. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow I'll dig in again. [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 17:39, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
::Thanks.  One of the things I wanted to know was whether I was spending too much time on redundant articles.  I imagine Wikipedia is covering Trump extensively.  They're less likely to cover the laser mice.
::And as that came out of my fingers I realized how dumb it sounded.  I just checked.  No we don't cover the laser mice on Wikipedia but we totally would. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:00, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

== North Korea ==

Good grief, but that story is seriously moving.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:27, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:It's a nice change, but I wouldn't want them all to be like this.  There's not much new information yet.
:At least I finally managed to write a short one.  It's got almost only two sources and everything. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:37, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:: Yes, it's actually pushing our minimal length (a bit shy on total text volume, relative to our standard rule of thumb).  And yet, in so little text, manages to dredge up some of the murkiest, messiest lexical-neutrality issues around&amp;nbsp;:P.&amp;nbsp; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:07, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
::: Erk.  In the end I just wasn't comfortable with the length on that item.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 16:33, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:::: As hope springs eternal, I still hope I might find a review in me tonight; if so I hope to do the North Korean item.  I notice you added to the white supremacist article, giving it a good safety margin over minimum; at this point, though, on Wikinews (which keeps UTC) it's Sunday, making the article appear to be four days old.  I usually treat the outer end of the 2&amp;ndash;3 freshness threshold as measuring from local date of event to Wikinews date of publication, because that's what's readily visible in the article:  if published at this point it would say &quot;this happened on Wednesday&quot; (which is local time) and &quot;this was published on Sunday&quot; (which is Wikinews time), and that sounds like four days even though less it's less than 96 hours elapsed.  I see there's something more expected on Tuesday.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:52, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::Limited reviewer resources and otherwise publishable articles timing out are nature of the beast on Wikinews.  Given the sources and context, shouldn't the number of days elapsed take into account in which time zone the event took place?  If Pence gives a speech at 9:00 p.m. on Monday in Washington D.C., it should count as Tuesday for UTC timeout purposes. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:22, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::If Mike Pence gives a speech, it's likely to be so well covered that the article may go stale ''faster''.  Freshness is a complex issue.  (I'd best not spend a lot of time discussing it just now.  Btw, have I remarked how much I appreciate the embedded sourcing comments, on these many-source articles such as the NK one can't help being after focal shifting?)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:10, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::The Mike Pence bit was just an example of ''something'' likely to happen in the eastern U.S.  Let's say that anything Mike Pence does at 9:00 a.m. in Washington D.C. should be considered five hours fresher than anything he did at 9:00 a.m. in Greenwich (and yes he could get there that fast if they brought back supersonic flight, and given that this would be over the ocean it shouldn't be a problem). [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:49, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::: Of course it was just an example; and I was just using the example as an occasion to remark this subject is very fraught.  No way I can cover much of it now.  A few small remarks, then.  Yes, my formula skews things by timezone, giving more time east of Greenwich, less west of Greenwich.  How old an article ''feels'' matters to freshness, and by the time an article is that long in the tooth, the biggest feature visible in the vicinity on the psychological landscape is likely the transition from apparently-three-days-after to apparently-four-days-after.  Which makes that transition a good fixed reference point for navigation in that vicinity.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:46, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

== Suggestion ==

I recommend a gadget we provide under &quot;User interface gadgets&quot;, called &quot;Underline in green categorizable {{tl|w}} links&quot;.  By making it obvious when a link is localized by the template, it suggests categories to consider adding; for example, viewing this white supremacist article through the gadget, the existence of a local category for the FBI leaps out.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:55, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:Sounds good.  Where do I find it? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:02, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:: [[Special:Preferences]], Gadgets tab, under &quot;User interface gadgets&quot;; atm it's fifth from the bottom of that section.  (We have a lot of clutter in our gadgets list; I suspect most of them don't even work, but checking that gadget-by-gadget would be a mess.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:25, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Found it.  ...wow.  That is annoying as hell.  I'll try it out for a while. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:32, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:::: Lol.  I wonder if I felt that way when I first started using it?   Nowadays operating with out it feels like flying blind.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:55, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::When you told me about it I figured it would show up in the text editing window and not the shut up I'm trying to read window. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:04, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
: Some conceivably-of-interest background about the motive for {{tl|w}}; I don't ''think'' I've described this to you (if I have, well, score another for absent-mindedness).  When I came to Wikinews, amongst the systemic problems I found were the following snarl:
:* Although local policy says to wikilink locally when a local target is available in preference to targets on Wikipedia (or other sister projects), actually doing it was finicky, tedious, error-prone work &amp;mdash; determining for each keyword whether or not there was a local target, and coding &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;[[target]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; if there was, &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:target|]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; if not &amp;mdash; frankly an absurd burden to put on an article author whose hands should be quite full worrying about content.  In practice the practical thing, even for experienced Wikinewsies, was to use local links for countries and US states (because one could be sure those were all locally available) and Wikipedia links for everything else.  Reviewers too had more than enough to worry about without such nonsense, so the problem tended not to get fixed during review, either.
:* If a new category were created, providing a local target for previously non-local wikilinks, finding the links to be localized would be a big, messy task, far worse than finding all the articles in our archives that should go in the new category (which could be messy in itself).  This discouraged creation of new categories.
:* Following the creation of a new category, later published articles that ought to be in that new category would only get added if somebody ''remembered'' the category was there.  Typically, this meant the person responsible for creation of the category would add new articles to it for a while, and then the category would have increasingly spotty coverage after its creator forgot or moved on.  Which further discouraged the creation of new categories.
:* All these things together meant that most links went to Wikipedia; few local targets and fewer linked to.  A project whose wikilinks aren't local subtly fails to feel like a real project.  Ideally, a reader should be able to wander about for as long as their attention lasts, and each link they click on will take them to another place ''on the project''.  The prevalence of Wikipedia links was a drain on the project identity, and thus community cohesiveness, of Wikinews.
: Despite the interconnections, what all these difficulties really have in common is the simple device to fix them.  A template, {{tl|w}}, that automatically checks for a local target and links to it if available or to a sister project otherwise, and uses hidden categories to document which was done.  The author can just use {{tl|w}} for everything (or, if they prefer, when in doubt).  Non-local links automagically divert to a new category once its mainspace redirect is created.  Because {{tl|w}} flags its local links, article curators can, sooner or later, consider each one to decide whether the article ought to be added to the targeted category, and then replace the {{tl|w}} with a hard local link so it's removed from the list.  New categories are reliably populated as time goes on (provided the categories were chosen to be the targets of keywords likely to be linked).  The discouragements to category creation are mitigated, so that over time the number of local targets available increases.  Ultimately, the proportion of local links increases dramatically, and the project subtly ''feels'' more cohesive.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:39, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
::Good to know.  I thought the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{w|whatever}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; thing ''only'' sent things to the 'pedia.  That ''is'' a good tool and far less irritating. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:51, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

== Reviewer status ==

I was kind of hoping I'd get to your article this evening after all; I keep telling myself it's important not to &quot;apologize&quot; for not getting to a review on a volunteer project, but I do admit I'm disappointed I didn't get to it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:48, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
:And if we miss it, some other new craziness will take place, and I'll write an article about that.  There's no Wikilaw saying you can't have other stuff to do or even, heck, just not ''feel'' like it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:54, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

== spaceflight article ==

Unfortunately the article had to be deleted as blatant copyvio.  I'm about to write a note to the contributor.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:46, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
:Oh darn it.  Well that happens with newbs.  Ask the guy where the sources were.  No reason we can't put together a new one. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:57, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
:: A new contributor posts material with no sources, polished prose showing characteristics of news such as a lede sentence, but missing basic characteristics of Wikinews (and even, of ''wiki'') formatting.  Plenty of warning signs, there.  I've found there is often no malice in it, just an unawareness of what one ought to be doing (and ought not to be doing).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:13, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
:::While you're here, I've got something that's scheduled to start the middle of this coming week, so I might not be around so much. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:16, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

== Redundant redirects ==

Insight, from an incident just now:  If you rename an article during its development, and wish to nominate the redirect for speedy deletion, put the {{tl|delete}} template ''below'' the #redirect line, rather than above.  That way the redirect still works.  I just had to deal with an (apparently) confused IP who got derailed looking for information on Wikinews about the Kim Jong Nam story when they washed up at the deletion-nominated page and thought it meant our article on the subject had been deleted.  (Yes, getting to the deletion more promptly would have avoided the problem too; just figuring the more prevention measures the better.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:50, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
:Oh, okay.  I didn't know it made a difference. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]])

== Sessions article ==

Fwiw, I'd hoped to tackle this right after lunch, and then just ''before'' lunch a minor crisis irl called me away.  I doubt I'll be able to get to it before midnight UTC, which (unless another reviewer comes along) means either I tackle it this evening (after midnight UTC) or tomorrow morning (after 1200 UTC).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:49, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks for the update.  I'll see if I can find time to check the outlets for new developments before you hit the review.
:We're actually in the same time zone.  You don't have to say UTC. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:15, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
:: Well, UTC (1)&amp;nbsp;is the time kept by Wikinews; midnight UTC is when the visible date of publication changes, in this case from Friday to Saturday (which is why if I'd seen a shot at getting it published before then, I would have taken it). (2)&amp;nbsp;keeps me oriented to the globe (I recall {{w|Joseph Campbell}} had some things to say about this sort of outward focus). (3)&amp;nbsp;avoids deeply confusing tangles since we ''do'' interact with people in lots of different time zones.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:52, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
::: Series of little crises and distractions here.  You got this submitted in an admirably timely manner and I fumbled, repeatedly.  But it did get out the door.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:33, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
:::: Glad to hear it.  Life is going to be life. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:34, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

== Royal Commission article ==

Oops.  Sorry.  I was writing a quick review, and should have known better than to do so without ''first'' marking the article as {{tl|under review}}.

Btw, as a matter of curiosity &amp;mdash; in case you hadn't deduced what was going on &amp;mdash; we've evidently got another {{w|University of Wollongong|UoW}} class coming through.  Generally there's first a trickle of new user accounts created with names with &quot;uow&quot; in them; then more accounts created and a few students get an early start on submitting articles (often needing some basic guidance on the pillars); and then at some point lots of students submitting, typically most of them at some particular time of week, which may reflect when the class meets.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:07, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:University of Wollongong?  This is a little new to me for &quot;another&quot; to apply.  Do they have a relationship with Wikinews? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:: [https://lha.uow.edu.au/taem/contacts/UOW213834.html David Blackall] (first-listed author of [http://ro.uow.edu.au/lhapapers/428/]).  Cf. [[:Category:UoW]].  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 05:14, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::: The class may be Monday morning (in Australia) this semester; there seem to be a lot of submissions materializing.  Looks as if when I wake up in the morning there may be a bunch more; I'm thinking I should take a look at yours (and Ssr's) before spending much time on whatever accumulates overnight.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 05:42, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I was thinking of hitting the six-month mark before requesting reviewer status.  You think I should go early?  And the Kim Jong Nam article is basically &quot;here's what's happened since last time.&quot; NBD to bump that back a couple days or punt it to development until the next thing happens. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:02, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::: Deciding when to apply for reviewer status can be a tricky thing.  It's guaranteed to be idiosyncratic.  In my case... well, when I applied the standards were different.  Time was, reviewer was sometimes given out to folks who really weren't ready to do full reviews yet; we don't do that anymore, after we had some problems with someone who was really meant to use the review bit just to sight interwikis, and then... I don't remember exactly what went wrong, but, we're more cautious now.  Anyway, when I went for reviewer, I basically said at my nomination I felt I understood the project well enough to not use the review bit for full reviews before I was ready to.  And the community accepted that.  I think the first full review I did was about half a year later.  Iirc it was ''much'' longer than that before I undertook to review an OR article, as I wasn't confident I grokked that aspect of things.  And of course I was the one who started the water-cooler thread that eventually led to page [[WN:Tips on reviewing articles]].  The point was that there wasn't any guidance on how to review; I still don't feel there's as much, or as good, as there should be, and the last time we gave someone the review bit, they used it ''once'' to review an article and never again, which might just be distraction from other projects... but I wonder if they just found it too difficult/scary.  It ''is'' scary. &lt;p&gt; I was thinking about whether I should offer a suggestion here about what aspect of review you should be most cautious about, but, you know, when I tried to imagine that in my head it just sounded ''so'' overbearing.  (The thing about &quot;no self-review&quot; is too obvious, and beyond that, well.)  &lt;p&gt; At any rate, when you feel you're ready, I suspect you'll have no problem getting in... though it may prove desirable to leave the nomination open for a while, depending on the number of active Wikinewsies who drop in on it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:58, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::: Fwiw, I've reviewed and published the Kim Jong Nam article.  I'd rather not waste an article that's by an experienced Wikinewsie and therefore very unlikely to have any fundamental problem (other perhaps than staleness if left too long) that would actually prevent publication; as opposed to articles by folks who haven't got their sea legs yet. &lt;p&gt; (I looked back over the 'Tips' page, and found it's better on the big-picture issues than I'd remembered; I guess I'd forgotten how many times it's gotten tweaked over the past several years as various issues have come up.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:51, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::: Reviewing these influxes of student articles has a distinctive feel to it.  They're ''students''; I know that sort from both sides (I spent a good seven or eight years as a TA, so did a great deal of homework-grading).  They're earnest (though more distracted in their last year), but they'll also push the envelope; one has to be diligent on &quot;copyright&quot; (which of course also includes plagiarism, and can get quite subtle), focus, and sometimes basic formatting issues.  The sheer mass of submissions changes things too; triage gets more brutal, and it's only at low submission rates that I can sometimes try to review everything in the order submitted: when things get crazy, the next one to do is the freshest article that seems likely to pass when reviewed. &lt;p&gt; At any rate, I managed to get into the swing of things early, yesterday, and keep my pace for most of the day, whereas today I'm having trouble getting into it.  I'm hoping I can get into it a bit after lunch, and if I can get started I hope to keep moving as long as possible.  It gets kind of discouraging, I admit, when in the evening, just as ''I'm'' starting to fade, the students in Australia wake up and start submitting.  I'm tentatively planning to do your article first.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:35, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks a bunch.  I've got some stuff going on this weekend or else I'd be more in-there, if only with the c/e.  Def. got the impression that the hopper is full enough.  Just didn't want to skip this issue. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:58, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

== Pockets of best-practice ==

Had the subject of single-quotes versus double-quotes never come up?  Huh.  Lots of little tidbits lying about, I suppose.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]])
:There's some evidence that double outperform single, but I don't think we need a rule about it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:19, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
::We try for consistency.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:47, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
:::On Wikipedia, that's intra-article consistency, not Wikiproject level or Wikipedia-level.  Same here? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:00, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
:::: Consistency within an article is clearly most important.  In this case I was actually talking about consistency between articles (what, couldn't you tell by reading my mind?)  The preference for single-quotes in headlines actually ''is'' mentioned in the style guide (I had to look there to see if it was, but it's standard practice), and the preference for double-quotes in articles is one of those things it had never occurred to me even needed to be said explicitly.  I'm not sure I'd ever seen anyone consistently using single-quotes in the article text, but if I had I'd not have blinked at changing it to double-quotes; afaik that's just standard English punctuation.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:38, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::I don't see inter-article consistency as necessary or desirable for a project of this kind.  So long as it's correct English, let people do what they like.  Single quotes are one of the correct options in British English, and the spelling was British, so I kept them. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:46, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::: Consistency as totally unimportant is clearly an exaggeration.  Consistency as a major priority across the board is clearly an exaggeration.  Consistency has some degree of desirability, how much depends on what one is contemplating being consistent/inconsistent ''about'', and there's also likely to be huge variations in what other considerations come into play so that it may get completely overwhelmed and become a ''practical'' irrelevance in some cases.  This particular issue strikes me as a rather small point of style, which I could easily see different reviewers handling either way (leave it or change it to double quotes).  It is interesting to hear there's a variant style of that sort in British usage; I might well leave such a thing alone when encountering it in an article in future (or at least, think seriously about doing so).  The part about using single-quotes in headlines is of a different sort, because headlines get viewed en masse so that consistency across articles has a meaningful impact; that seems to me a sufficient explanation of why the headline consideration is in the SG while the handling in the article text afaict is not.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:45, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

::::::::''depends on what one is contemplating being consistent/inconsistent about'' Yup.  That's it right there.  The articles all have the same layout and format because that makes them easier to read.  They don't all need to be in the same variety of English or have the same take on the serial comma because 1) learning how to read more than one variety correctly is educational and 2) it doesn't make much difference otherwise and 3) telling people their preferred variety is dispreferred here just alienates them. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:06, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::: Agreed (for Wikinews purposes), on those two points (variety, serial comma); other considerations often overwhelm on those.  Though the specific issue atm was use of single-quotes versus double-quotes for direct quotation in the body of an article.  I'm interested that I hadn't consciously registered the single-quote variant as a coherent style.  As a matter of curiosity, do you know if it's recommended in any major news style guides?  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:25, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::News?  I don't know.  I might be able to check ''The Economist'''s guide later.  But I've seen the single-first in other forms of British writing.  I think it might be considered old-fashioned but it hasn't fallen out of correct practice yet.
::::::::::Single quotes are one of the few correct options within English for which there's any provable difference in functionality.  Under some circumstances, they mess up search functions.  There's also the idea that the reader's going to &quot;trip&quot; over quotes-vs-apostrophes, but that's anecdotal.  Even so, I don't think it's a big enough deal to make a rule against them.  Almost no one uses them anyway. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:57, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

== [[U.S. judge blocks second Trump travel ban as religious discrimination]] ==

Oops.  [[Talk:U.S. judge blocks second Trump travel ban as religious discrimination#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4295702 [Not ready]}}|Glitch]].  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:53, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
:Was there a software malfunction somewhere? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:56, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

== London attack ==

If you have some time ... this is a story we should cover, but I won't be able to, because of internal exams. Going to write about?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:17, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
: I think there are two articles already on the queue about it.  One of them has a neutrality problem, which I noted on its talk page.  The other... well, I ''suspect'' it's lost freshness due to later developments.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:46, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:: (On second thought, that article may be getting updated.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:47, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::It sounds like the kids gave us plenty of starting material. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:08, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

== Travel ban ==

Another one for you. [http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-travel-ban-virginia-judge-affirms-236469  Virginia judge backs Trump on travel ban].&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 17:19, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

== Sacking ==

I tend to assume any reader who isn't entirely familiar with the term will pick it up fast enough.  Though I've reviewed thousands of articles by English writers of many different stripes, so my idiolect is likely somewhat international.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:42, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
:Oh sure, but there are cross-variety terms that would work just as well, and it's such a simple fix.  I say teachable moment.
:(Conversation in reference to this [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wests_Tigers_Coach_Jason_Taylor_Sacked&amp;diff=4300048&amp;oldid=4300040 article submitted by student].) [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

== Non-neutrality ==

Some of my reviews lately have been, imho, really interesting case studies.  There was one about alien moon bases that gave me an opportunity to discuss even-handed treatment of fringe claims; another that looked like it was fake news trying to infiltrate into mainstream media, affording a discussion of warning signs that stronger sourcing is needed; and then this morning a formidable example of non-neutrality.  [[Talk:Trump revokes climate change policies]].  Despite the effort I put into the review comments, I couldn't quite see how to work into those comments &amp;mdash; without sounding non-neutral myself &amp;mdash; the observation that in this case, any non-neutral presentation of the pro-environmentalist position plays into the hands of the anti-environmentalists.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:13, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
:Chimed in.  I can try to give it a closer look later.  Work's picked up in the past few weeks so I don't have as much time for this as I did.  The influx of student articles was opportune. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:28, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
:: I added another comment myself.  Honestly, I've got a very solid intuitive sense of the whole news-neutrality thing but find much of it &amp;mdash; beyond [[WN:attribution|attribution]] &amp;mdash; rather challenging to articulate at a moment's notice, which is a big part of why I've been wanting to write an essay on it.  (The WN:NPOV policy page, although I did learn from it, does imho such a poor job of explanation that I think of it as kind of an embarrassment, and, unlike things like [[WN:Newsworthiness]] or even [[WN:Inverted pyramid]], I don't link to it when writing review comments.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:17, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

== Talk page? ==

didn't you mean to contact those students on their talk pages, rather than their user pages?  Btw, I ''should'' have set up a semester category for this class (which involves figuring out which semester it is... I'd guess it's Autumn 2017) and been putting {{tl|UoW student}} on their user pages, but I've not found time for it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 12:10, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
:Well yes.  I wanted to talk to them, so I posted on their talk pages ...you don't actually mean that I ''did'' post on their talk pages do you?  You mean that I posted on their user pages.  Hoo-kay.  I'll go fix it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:13, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
:: Stuff happens.&amp;nbsp;:-)&amp;nbsp; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 12:49, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
:::Speaking of stuff, I've sent in the request for unblock-for-appeal on Wikipedia.  I was eligible March 1 but it's taking a long time.  If I seem to drop off the face of Wikinews for a week or two, it's because I'm trying to keep the appeal contained.  Regardless of the result, I'll be back as soon as the screaming stops. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:42, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

== [[International organizations ask Russian government to stop persecution of homosexuals in Chechnya]] ==

I had some freshness concerns.  '''[[Talk:International organizations ask Russian government to stop persecution of homosexuals in Chechnya#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4307180 [Not ready]}}|Review comments]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:36, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

:That's all to beexpected.  I checked the  feeds this morning to see if there was anything new to add.  Will check your specific comments later.

== [[British minister claims Chechnyan government plans to eliminate gay community by late May]] ==

We need another source to verify the news for the recent events. There is only on source which was published within the time period of 72 hours.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:30, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
:[http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/20/deputy-foreign-secretary-condemns-utterly-barbaric-abuse-of-gay-men-in-chechnya-6587799/#ixzz4fIS2VosM ''Metro''] okay? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:52, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
::Must be on or after April 22. April 22's story loses its freshness in a couple of hours.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:08, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I noticed that a little later.  I was wondering why the Independent didn't include any dates.  Still, why post this here and not on the collaboration page? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:10, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
::::{{ping|acagastya}} Better to post stuff on the article's collaboration page, with ping of relevant party.
::::{{ping|Darkfrog24}} I admire how you're keeping after this story; I really hope we finally pin it down.  (News meandering out of Chechnya in dribs and drabs, I take it, making it hard to bring an article to bear on it while it's still fresh.  And mainstream news outlets that really seem to have forgotten that &quot;when&quot; is one of the Ws.)  Yes, by all means, &quot;day&quot; word in the lede and two recent sources, so it can't wriggle away from us!  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

== [[Shallow hope: Study suggests some corals are adapting to climate change]] ==

Hi.  Relevant; but, sourcing and freshness issues.  '''[[Talk:Shallow hope: Study suggests some corals are adapting to climate change#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4311629 [Not ready]}}|Review comments]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:33, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

== Erk ==

You'd think I'd learn by now to ''check the diff'' before saving a comment on a discussion such as your RFP.  I'm really annoyed with myself; although, if it helps to move the conversation forward, that at least may be a net positive.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:18, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

: &amp;lt;sigh&amp;gt; I wanted to say something immediately, hence the preceding.  I'm really quite disappointed in the comments I wrote on my !vote; despite the long time I spent struggling with it, the comment came out imho quite ineptly.  For that, I really feel I own you an apology.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:44, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
::{{ping|Pi zero}} If it would make you feel better, I accept your apology in advance but before you feel the need for one more second, let me tell you why I had such a long night: I'm just coming out of my appeal with ArbCom.  I've just spent a year and a half being punished because asking someone &quot;Are you okay?&quot; is gaslighting if I'm the one who does it, for ''personally faking'' the idea that American and British English differ in the treatment of quotation marks, pushing POV by saying &quot;we should follow the sources even when they say things I don't like,&quot; biting the new guys (yes that one over there who thanked me for defending him), ignoring other people's sources (by looking them up, reading them, and discussing what they say), and the ultimate, ''ultimate'' disruption, saying that none of the above actually happened and asking if there's any thing that ''did'' happen or that I might have done that I need to work on, as in &quot;I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong.  Was it ''this''?&quot; And that's nothing to last year when I said &quot;yes&quot; to their demands like six times and they acted like I said no.
::You think I should be stricter about Wikinews' rules.  Maybe you think we shouldn't make exceptions for science and professional news that work on different schedules.  You have an opinion that differs from mine.  How fucking dare you?  You've poured a lot of energy into Wikinews and you're picky about who gets to be a reviewer is how.  Go ahead.  I'm pretty picky about a few things myself.  At no point did you maintain that my disagreeing with you made me some subhuman monster from whose mouth came only lies. You worked from an alternative opinion, not an alternative fact.  It's Wikinews, not opposite land.  Reading your comment wasn't fun but it was within the bell curve of reasonable discourse.  We're Wikinews not the goddamned Buddy Bears.
::What you've exercised here is ''compunction'', the desire to do better even though what you did wasn't actually wrong.  I'm in no mood to jump down your or anyone's throat for that.
::And in case you were wondering, yes you'd still have a coral bleaching article to review even if I'd been unblocked.  It's a small crowd here but it's a good one. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:16, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
::: Ah, I see.  A long night because, dealing with Wikipedian culture as it has become.  I realized later, I had joined Wikipedia in its heyday, around 2006 or 7 (which was about the time the WMF finished the paper-shuffling of assembling itself and shifted into high gear), and it was a wonderful, friendly, idealistic place.  Even though I moved on, to Wikibooks and then to Wikinews, I still have fond memories, and I still care about Wikipedia.  I could weep for how the atmosphere there has soured, and would help it if I knew how I could.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 16:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
::::Yeah, that's around the time I joined.  I didn't find it friendly, though.  As I recall, the first time I went to WT:MOS there was a knock-down-drag-out about WP:LQ going on.  And a now-retired Wikipedian blamed me for starting it.  The fight that was well under way before I got there.  But that's WT:MoS.  People ''say'' stuff like that and you just go with it and move on because no one means anything by it and it's not going to go any further than that.  If that was as far as any of this had gone, it wouldn't have been a big deal.  Right now I feel like I got held down and a plaque reading &quot;Gaslighting, lying piece of absolute filth&quot; got hammered into my head, and they don't get why I'm not okay with that.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:37, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

== Chechnya ==

When marking four-day-inactive developing articles as abandoned, I've been simply skipping over the gay-purge-in-Chechnya one.  Do you have thoughts on that article's future?  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 11:23, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
:I was thinking about it the other day.  Yeah, it's time to go.  I'll do it myself. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:45, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

== About your reviewer nom ==

Um.  Hi.

I've been wracking my brains over how this situation can work out well; it's got me deeply worried.  Eventually I decided I've been treating this like a &quot;political&quot; situation, when what I really should be doing is talking with you about it; more communication, rather than less.  Person to person.  So I'm going to try to explain to you how I see the situation.  Some of this could be appropriately said at the nomination discussion (and a little of it has been), but much of it seems to me too person-to-person to belong there.  (This has gotten rather long; but I fear that when this conversation goes wrong it'll because I didn't say ''enough''.)

You asked me a while back whether I thought you were ready for reviewer.  That's one of those moments one can think back on and wish to have done differently.  If I had said at the time, no, I don't think you're ready yet &amp;mdash; accompanied, we might as well imagine while we're at it, by an eloquent explanation of why I thought that &amp;mdash; we would... perhaps... now be in a somehow much better situation.  The trouble with that what-if scenario is that I didn't ''know'' then how I felt about it, though in retrospect there was something niggling at me.  Then, when you applied, it was in the midst of the distracting influx of student articles.  And maybe on this occasion I was overly hesitant about voicing my concerns (hesitance while sorting between the living Wikinews tradition I'm trying to preserve, and my personal quirks that I strive to keep carefully separate from the tradition).  It was only last week, more than a month into the nomination, that I understood clearly that I didn't think you were ready.

The particular issue that came up &amp;mdash; freshness as applied to covering scientific papers &amp;mdash; is of concern to me in its own right but also seems to me a symptom of a larger difficulty.  Some perspective on both halves of that concern:  Several years ago, I wondered about the same issue.  Mainstream news orgs publish some kinds of articles that we do not.  Some of that difference is our neutrality policy (there's a whole complex mix of wiki and journalism issues there).  There's some impact of our neutrality policy on our freshness policy.  And then there's also a wiki-political consideration:  we ''do not poach'' on our sister Wikipedia's territory (even though they routinely try, unsuccessfully, to poach on ours).  So I clearly understood good reasons for sticking to our guns on freshness regardless of whether the subject happens to be a science paper.  Nevertheless, I wondered, so I asked around, consulting folks whom ''I'' think of as &quot;senior editors&quot;.  I got a ''resounding'' '''no'''.

But, you perceived this as something that it would be fine to just do differently.  Which (by contrast with the above) seems to suggest problems both with awareness of which policies carry most weight within the overall structure, and with attitude toward consulting before acting (if I did really want to do something differently, and there weren't senior colleagues around for ready consultation, my natural reflex would be to hold off on changing anything however long it took to consult).

I don't see that consulting with you ''after'' you've done something out of step would work; we both know you're apt to be set in your ways, and even if you were persuadable in each case, review should stop stuff before it happens.  And, I'm worried you could cross the line simply by not seeing it.

I'm tempted &amp;mdash; and yet uncomfortable about the idea, worrying it might be taken badly &amp;mdash; to ask if you would be willing to simply withdraw-without-prejudice for now from your request for reviewer.

Do you have any thoughts/suggestions on this?  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:29, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
:I just came off a long drive and my brain is still on the highway. '' I got a resounding no.'' To which question? &quot;No we shouldn't stick to our guns?&quot; or &quot;No we shouldn't make exceptions on freshness?&quot; EDIT: Either way, I would like to read that conversation.  Got a link?
:Are those senior editors still here or has the composition of the Wikinews community changed since then?
:''we both know you're apt to be set in your ways'' Given recent events I'd like to point out that I change my ways now and then but no one notices because there's no fuss.
:Pi zero I'm getting the impression that what you're actually afraid of here is offending me/being a dick/etc.  Is that the cause of your hesitancy? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:25, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
::If you're worried that I'm mad at you for even asking me to WwP, I'm not.  I thought about it myself once the Australians died down but at that time decided against it.  One of the reasons was that the others expressed such confidence in me.  I've got some stuff going on this week that demands my focus and I'm pretty emotionally drained from Wikipedia business, so I'm going to let your suggestion settle for a while.  If the motion to grant reviewer status carries in the meantime, fine with me. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:52, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

::: It's true I really hate to offend anyone who doesn't deserve it; being too soft on people has often caused me trouble.  But I was referring to a different cause of hesitance.  When I stepped in to fill the review gap sufficiently to keep things moving while I worked on a [[User:Pi zero/essays/vision/sisters|longer-term solution]], I had a list of hazards to beware of.  One of the points of the exercise being to preserve the living tradition of Wikinews, that would ''require'' projecting the tradition I'd inherited from others; but one of the hazards on my list was to avoid letting my personal idiosyncrasies get mixed in with the tradition.  I'm not about to suppress my opinions, but need to make clear when I'm talking about site policy versus when I'm talking about personal preference.  In the particular case of dealing with you, I may have spent some extra time trying to sort things through.

::: Consensus does not work here the way it works on Wikipedia.  Part of it is that on a spectrum between democracy and meritocracy, Wikipedia is way over toward the first while Wikinews is more toward the second.  (Amongst other things, on important votes &amp;mdash; such as reviewer &amp;mdash; while everyone gets to voice their opinion, outsiders' !votes carry no weight; I don't know for sure as I wasn't here when that was set up, afaik at basically the inception of the project, but I suspect the point was to make it impossible for a gang of Wikipedians to come over and rewrite Wikinews policies to fit their encylcopedia-shaped notions.)  Another part of it is that, how to put this, site policies here have vastly more ''momentum''.  I've found something similar at Wikibooks, which is a smallish wiki but, moreover, is essentially a confederation of thousands of microprojects, called &quot;books&quot;, even smaller than Wikinews (some several orders of magnitude smaller).  Small projects have necessarily more respect for the way way things have been done in the past; they have to, for project coherence.  Since you arrived at Wikinews I have perceived vibes from you of supposing that changing the rules is a matter of consensus by the small number of people actually visible at a given moment.  But even membership in the community has much more longevity here than on Wikipedia.  A veteran Wikinewsie who comes by once or twice a year to write an article is, pretty much, active; below that they may still be semi-active; and they're likely still &quot;in the community&quot; well below.

::: '''No''' to extending freshness for certain kinds of articles.  One of our most basic slogans, penned years ago by brianmc, is &quot;Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.&quot;

::: (Btw, my impression of you fwiw is of someone very honest with a great deal of personal integrity, a good colleague to work with, who can sometimes be an intransigent pain.  Granted, I ''like'' to believe in people, which is presumably why AGF, over at Wikipedia, appealed to me so much at first, and it took me ''years'' to conclude that AGF not only doesn't work for Wikinews, but in the long term damages Wikipedia as well.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:13, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::''need to make clear when I'm talking about site policy versus when I'm talking about personal preference.''
:::::Yes, I've noticed some trouble distinguishing between the two in your posts.  Well you always give me plenty to think about, Pi zero.  Know that I respect your opinion even though I don't take it as a given that you're right like I used to.
:::::I know it's late at night for both of us, but I do want to read that conversation you reffed just now.  No hurry but it sounds important. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:39, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

:::::::: &quot;[...] even though I don't take it as a given that you're right like I used to.&quot;
::::::: Heh.  I don't remember that.  (Am I getting old?  No, don't answer that.  We all are, steadily.)  Anyway, how knowledgeable I am is context-dependent.  On Wikinews, one of my sometime hats is ''de facto'' lore-master.  I keep mentioning the &quot;living tradition&quot;?  Yeah.  Per the water cooler (wasn't it?) just recently, lots of important stuff doesn't get written down reliably on a small news project.  The only way to learn it is directly from someone who knows.  (There's a reason much is made of &quot;academic lineage&quot;, like en.wp emphasizing {{w|Peter Ladefoged}}'s descent from {{w|Henry Sweet}}.  Loss of in-person teacher-student connections killed ancient Greek science after the Hellenistic period and made it hard to reboot things in the Renaissance...)  So there has to be somebody around to learn from directly.  For me to serve as an effective conduit for passing on all this stuff, whilst minimizing attenuation of signal due to passing through the bottleneck of a single mind, means for me a lot of introspection plus consultation with other veteran Wikinewsies. &lt;p&gt; I honestly forget what I've remarked to you about my history on Wikinews.  I wasn't present for the pre-review age; I ''was'' around for &amp;lt;coughs&amp;gt; the tectonic events of 2010 and after.  An increment in my familiarity with the documentation (for its part in the tapestry) was when, in researching for [[WN:Tips on reviewing articles]], I surveyed most of what ''is'' written down on the project outside article talkspace and discussion archives.  I later tried to study the early archives, both here and at meta, when I was first nominated for en.wn ArbCom; there was too much of it to get through, but I did pick up some more historical awareness there.  I've surely done some thousands of reviews by now &amp;mdash;I've specialized, honestly I'm the review guru (and yes, the phonetics of that phrase are odd)&amp;mdash; and was startled when someone, brianmc maybe, pointed out my edit count here had passed 100,000; obviously I've contributed to precedent as well as being a diligent student of the living tradition.  If it's policy evolution within the past seven years, I'm party as well as witness, which is ''way'' more nuanced than just &quot;mine&quot; versus &quot;somebody else's&quot;.  Perhaps it'd help to think of the policies as a Platonic structure, with naturally coherent patterns that the community, including me, explore. &lt;p&gt; A great deal of it all doesn't even happen on-wiki; we use IRC a lot, including some limited-access channels.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:24, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::: Actually, the more I think about it, the more likely it seems I would use IRC in this case for an informal exchange of thoughts.  Doing things on-wiki can give them weight (not to mention momentum and persistence), and I'd have no reason to want to tediously create an on-wiki fuss and bother about this idea, which I myself could conjure plenty of good reasons against but was curious what others thought.  The most likely reason for it not to have been on IRC would be if the conversation predated my acclimation to IRC, which was probably in 2011.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:27, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::Oh it had to do with WP:LQ.  I think it was whether &quot;logical&quot; and &quot;British&quot; were the same style or not.  At first I thought they were the same, then you said they were different and made your case (but didn't cite any sources) and won me over.  Then I read a bunch of sources that contradicted what you said and changed my mind, but it did ''take'' seeing all those sources for me to change my mind.  You really sounded like you knew what you were talking about and to this day while I think your opinion was wrong, you clearly didn't pull it out of thin air.
:::::::::::I've never used IRC.
:::::::::::I think what you seem to be getting at with respect to science articles is that you think that's more Wikipedia's purview.  Not sure I agree but I'll give it some more thought.
:::::::::::Let me know when you come across that link.  Sounds like something I should read. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:49, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::: Since I have no memory of whatever specific instance you're talking about in the quotation discussions, I have no idea whether I was wrong outright, saying it wrong, being misunderstood, or what.  (I'd guess it was one of the first three, rather than &quot;or what&quot;, but even that is only a guess.) &lt;p&gt; To be clear (in case), the Wikipedia aspect of what I'm saying is that covering things later on belongs to Wikipedia's purview rather than to ours.  Nothing to do with whether the subject is science.  A way it's put somewhere about the site (and repeated, no doubt, in other places) is that a Wikinews article is a &quot;snapshot in time&quot;.  Our archives are a photo album, each picture clearly labeled as to just when it's from and carefully covered by a transparent protective cover to preserve it so people ever after can see what it looked like at that moment. &lt;p&gt; As a practical matter, freshness is how we operate, and there are ways to accomplish one's goals within it.  As I may have remarked to you somewhere earlier, and have certainly remarked to others, we usually deal with this sort of problem by interviewing one of the scientists involved.  Or sometimes several of them.  Like so much of our way of doing things, it's pretty close to the way the msm at its best does things too.  (Not I think a coincidence; it looks like a lot of know-how went into our policies-and-practices.  I tend to think such a high-quality coherent infrastructure could not have happened if Wikinews had not started out with a much larger day-to-day-active population &amp;mdash; we can still function with so few people ''now'' because there were more ''then''.)  When the msm decides to cover one of those scientific paper publications well after the paper came out, although they aren't as overt about it as we are they generally go out and collect some fresh quotes.  We generally do more than a few little quotes if we're going to interview someone, of course; and with full interviews especially, our freshness rules work differently, as discussed at [[WN:Fresh]]. &lt;p&gt; A particular favorite of mine in this vein &amp;mdash; which I had to hunt for because it's not technically categorized as an &quot;interview&quot; &amp;mdash; is BRS's classic
::::::::::::* {{wikinews|title='Fascinating' and 'provocative' research examines genetic elements of bipolar, schizophrenia|date=October 1, 2011}}
:::::::::::: (Easy to miss in the massive reporter's notes, down at the bottom of the transcript of the phone interview with the guy in Argentina:
::::::::::::: '''Not directly related to any posed question''' &lt;p&gt; Something I thought was very cool: “these are very important questions… are you a geneticist?” With thanks to George Watson (dendodge) who helped me out on question-writing.
:::::::::::: We were still getting big numbers of hits on that article many months after it was published; apparently it was some of the best information available on its topic anywhere on the web.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:27, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Oh I gathered later that it was just your opinion.  As valid as any other, sure, but I prefer a more direct interpretation of what I can see in sources.
:::::::::::::Which MSM do you mean?  Mainstream media?
:::::::::::::I'd just been about to ask you for a link to an interview. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:40, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent|:::::::::::}} If unsure how individual-quirky something is that I've popped out with, ask and I'll try to clarify. &lt;p&gt; &quot;msm&quot;=&quot;mainstream media&quot;. &lt;p&gt; We mostly do interviews presented directly as transcripts.
: {{intersection link|label=featured interviews|cat1=featured article|cat2=interview}}
: {{intersection link|label=other featured OR|cat1=featured article|cat2=original reporting|cat3=interview|not3=x}}
--[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:23, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
: Actually, on further reflection I'm not sure what you just said.  You gathered ''what'' was was just my opinion?  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:07, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
::The idea that British and logical punctuation styles were two different things rather than two names for the same thing.  I figured you might also have had some personal experiences that led you to draw this conclusion, but what's firsthand for you is secondhand for me, so I ended up giving more credence to the published sources.  So perhaps &quot;your conclusion&quot; is more accurate but it's a little clunky for the conversation we were having. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:15, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
::: Ah. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:32, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

== [[Hackers hit 99 countries with 'cyberweapons' stolen from U.S. National Security Agency‎]] ==

Financial Times is paywalled.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:01, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
:Weird.  It let me click right in. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:18, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
::Anyway, it's paywalled now.  I replaced it with two other sources.  Thanks for the heads-up. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:46, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
::But next time could you use the article collaboration page? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:14, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
:::Why did I leave a message here even though you and Pi zero said about the article's talk: You had edited recently, implying there is a probability that you are online. Sometimes, the Echo notifications would not load, so considering a possibility of that (happened with me, couldn't see the notifications for two months), I should leave a message here. Besides, you are the author, so nobody else can substitute a source for you until you ask them to.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 21:37, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::''you are the author, so nobody else can substitute a source for you until you ask them to''
:::::While it would certainly be ''easiest'' for me to be the one to do the substitution, I have no objection whatsoever to someone else performing this task.  It's part of what I mean by &quot;collaboration welcome.&quot; If you need my verbal permission, that's it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:45, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} Do not mix collaboration with the principles and guidelines of Wikinews. One must not cite any source which was not referred by the author and information was not extracted from it. Anyone else doing it is wrong, and I don't think that is acceptable.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 21:49, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
:Well of course the person replacing one source with another would have to read them both themselves to determine what lines in the Wikinews article came from where and so need to be re-sourced or removed.  That's what I mean when I say it would be easiest for me to do it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:53, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

== [[U.S. President Trump defends decision to share classified information with Russians]] ==

I wasn't comfortable with some aspects of the article.  We really want to offer a clean exposition of the story, imho, since we're covering something that's being ''really intensively'' covered by the US msm (I have no idea what sort of play it's getting elsewhere).  '''[[Talk:U.S. President Trump defends decision to share classified information with Russians#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4314586 [Not ready]}}|Review comments]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:05, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
:I'm not offended if that's what you're worried about.  This is why we have at least two people work on every article before it's approved.  I already fixed one of the problems you cited and will get to the others later. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:10, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
:: Personalized messages, and more explanation of one's thinking rather than less, I've found are generally desirable for review.  Granted, those things ''do'' make it less likely someone will be offended, and generally improve the psychological/social atmosphere.  They're also just plain good for communication and thus quality of produced news articles.  Since those are ''all'' good motives, there's no need to prioritize them.&amp;nbsp;:-)&amp;nbsp; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
:::Almost like you're trying to be a community. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:22, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
:::: I actually don't know how to interpret that, owing to the awkward reality that I've doubts about your grokking of the Wikinews community.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:15, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::It is meant to be grokked as mild sarcasm indicating recognition and approval of conscientiousness on your part.  Consider: &quot;It is almost as if you are acting as a responsible adult with a concept of basic manners and courtesy.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:01, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::: Oh, that. :p --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:23, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

== [[Simulations show planet orbiting Proxima Centauri could have liquid water]] ==

Nice.  (What can I say?  I like science.&amp;nbsp;:-)&amp;nbsp; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:29, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks.  Just remember it only ''might'' be able to support intelligent life and it would take so long to get there that the current presidential administration would be over by then anyway. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:46, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
::I recall seeing someone suggest (probably on PBS) some years back that there would be no point in a manned mission to another start until one could get up to... I think it was half the speed of light, because at any speed less than that, before you got there people would be whizzing past you in later technology.  I'm not sure I entirely buy the evident assumption about how fast future technology will advance in this area, but it's certainly something to keep in mind.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:09, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
:::Depends on the goal.  If the point is to place humans anywhere but Earth so that we don't have all our eggs in one basket, then it doesn't matter when they arrive so much as when they leave. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:36, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
:::: Aye, there's the rub.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:48, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

== [[Bill Cosby's lawyers accuse prosecutors of racial bias in jury selection for sexual assault trial|Bill Cosby sexual assault trial enters jury selection]] ==

Hi.  Hopefully not difficult (for someone other than the reviewer) to fix, but, '''[[Talk:Bill Cosby's lawyers accuse prosecutors of racial bias in jury selection for sexual assault trial#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4316695 [Not ready]}}|review comments]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 11:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

: Published.  '''[[Talk:Bill Cosby's lawyers accuse prosecutors of racial bias in jury selection for sexual assault trial#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4316824 [Passed]}}|Review comments]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:50, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
::Thanks.  And don't worry about the dimming star article.  It would be great if we published it but I still think Robert's had an okay first experience on Wikinews, and he's had the idea of holding on to the draft until the next event with this star.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:23, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
::: That's helpful perspective on the star article.  Thanks.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:38, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
::::It's a shame.  All the astronomy nerds are really riled up.  It would be a great niche piece. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:53, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

== darn you, green underlining program ==

Does that rhyme with &quot;[[q:Peanuts#Snoopy|Curse you, Red Baron!]]&quot;?  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:36, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
:The Red Baron was a warrior of such consummate style and valor that even his enemies were eager to shake his hand.  The green underlying simply annoys me ...into creating more specific links.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:40, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
:: And yet, it's one of the simplest and most awesome devices I know, changing the shape of the project like a glacier cutting through solid rock.  Granted, it doesn't get congratulated much.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:56, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
::: No, it gets darned, darned to the deepest vats of heck. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:11, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
::::Well, {{tl|w}} checks for the local link, and if the target page does not exists, it will be linked to the Wikipedia page​.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:50, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
:::::Yes, it makes a stop there on its way to heck. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:55, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
:::::: lol.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:33, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

== [[Truck bomb kills at least 80 in Afghan capital city center]] ==

That was my first review which was published. It is scary: what if I make a big mistake. I could not leave a message yesterday, I am home, and it was time I should be in my bed. Please see the [[Talk:Truck bomb kills at least 80 in Afghan capital city center|review comments]]. I had to re-word some sentences, and remove (It was: &quot;As of today, no other organization has claimed credit.&quot; because we don't know if hours after submitting the article anyone claimed the responsibility). Have a look at the article, let me know if something is wrong.

Thanks for writing this article. I was planning to write it, but you were quicker.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:43, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
:''what if I make a big mistake'' Well thanks for the vote of confidence.  If there was a ''big'' mistake, we'd take the article down.  We can do that.  I'll give it a look if it makes you feel better but I think it's just the first-timer jitters. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:31, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
:: Actually, there is almost no mistake that would justify de-publishing the article.  I think I've done that about three times; one of those times still haunts me because I'm not sure it was the right thing to do, and I'm not sure whether I'd handle the others the same way now that I did then (though they don't bother me the way the one does).  It's been suggested that even for a really huge mistake, the thing to do is replace the content with a notice ''instead of'' de-publishing; template {{tl|correction}} includes [[:Category:Published]].  Earlier revisions can be hidden if it comes to it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 11:53, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
::: Btw, I didn't take that as a concern about you-as-reporter making a big mistake, rather about acagastya-as-''reviewer'' making a big mistake.  I've talked about this with some other veteran reviewers, and I know I'm not alone in finding review a disconcerting experience; if one really understands how much responsibility it carries, the moment of clicking &quot;submit&quot; on a passing review is scary (as I remarked in my essay on [[User:Pi zero/essays/The review process|the review process]]).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 12:08, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
::::''you-as-reporter making a big mistake'' Two votes of confidence in one day! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:22, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
::::: Mistakes are so easy to come by, though.  There's the business about JFK telling the people of Berlin &quot;I am a jelly donut&quot; (which I gather didn't happen, that's an example of a mistake by the &quot;reviewer&quot;) and Jimmy Carter saying he wanted to have sex with the men of Poland (which afaict pretty much did happen, and is an example of a mistake by the &quot;writer&quot;).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:01, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

== [[Curiosity Rover analysis suggests chemically complex lake once graced Mars's Gale crater]] ==

Published.  I'm slightly paranoid about subtleties of meaning in this sort of article, so, here's hoping I didn't muff anything.

I thought for a moment we might have two articles about Curiosity, so that one more would give us enough for a category, but alas the other article was merely a reference by an interviewer during an interview.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 16:09, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
:Well then we shall have to make more.  I'm glad this one didn't age out. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:22, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

== [[Theresa May's Conservative Party wins UK election but loses majority, leaving Brexit plan in question]] ==

Argh.  '''[[Talk:Theresa May's Conservative Party wins UK election but loses majority, leaving Brexit plan in question#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4321844 [Not ready]}}|Review comments]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:53, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
:I was wondering what kind of Argh that was and now I see we're dealing with another &quot;updated&quot; source issue.  Argh. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:34, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

== User Babel matrix ==

The languages you know: en-N, es-2, fr-1. Is the list correct?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 09:21, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
:Close.  I don't speak French.  Yes, I'm a native English speaker and a level-two Spanish speaker.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 10:41, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
::fr-0?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 10:52, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
:::fr-learned a couple words many years ago but never took lessons.  I know more Latin than French. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:00, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
::::Wouldn't be surprised. You mentioned about zoology, iIrc.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:07, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

== [[Third Trump travel ban takes effect]] ==

Doesn't have a [[WN:lede|lede]].  '''[[Talk:Third Trump travel ban takes effect#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4327234 [Not ready]}}|Review comment]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:06, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

: Well, published.  I'm not sure I should have published it without further work on the lede; there's a danger that needs careful consideration, of biasing impressions, either for a &quot;left&quot; or &quot;right&quot; interpretation of events. &lt;p&gt; I'm quite concerned &amp;mdash; I don't wish to offend, but I also don't wish to fail to convey this &amp;mdash; that you aren't improving; if anything, you're slipping some.  You're not at the level where you should be applying for the review bit.  (You asked me months ago whether I thought you were ready yet for reviewer, and I punted on the question by encouraging you to ask yourself, but I don't think that was wise advice and I now have answer: no, you're not ready yet.) &lt;p&gt; That conversation a while ago has been gnawing at me, where you objected to the tone you perceived in a remark I made, and eventually you concluded that you felt I was addressing you like a teacher to a student and it made you uncomfortable.  At the time I almost asked, but was swept up by other things and never got back to it, whether you were uncomfortable with the idea of ''me'' taking a teaching role toward you, or with the idea of ''anyone'' taking a teaching role toward you, or with the idea of ''you'' being in the role of a student.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:37, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
::On Wikipedia and Wikinews, we are all equals and colleagues, not teachers and students.  We have things to offer ''each other''. &quot;Obey me because I have this T label and you have that S one&quot; isn't our thing.  I listen carefully to what you say because you've been here longer than I have, but ''you could be wrong'', and I have to remember that.
::When you tell me something, I think, &quot;Now I know what one Wikinewsie of good reputation who currently makes up a third/half the reviewer population thinks about this,&quot; but that's not itself a source or a longstanding guideline or a consensus of many Wikinewsies.  So I ask which previous conversation from years back you mean and if you have a link.
::That might be what you're seeing.  It's annoying to be second-guessed, but the alternative is to assume, and [[Wikinews:Never_assume|never assume]].
::If this weren't Wikinews, if this were a news website of which you were the founder, editor or both, our interactions would be very different.  You did something that bothered me, so I told you about it before it could become a big deal.
::&quot;Improvement&quot; suggests some kind of schedule (again, like a classroom) or an arbitrary good/bad dichotomy.  It seems kind of vague but it looks like there's something here worth exploring.  I'm going to guess that you mean &quot;Increasing level of familiarity with Wikinews's various policies, such as but not limited to WP:FUTURE.&quot; Is it that or something else?
::&quot;''you'' being in the role of a student&quot; suggests that you think I've been in the role of a teacher here on Wikinews.  Do you mean when I corrected the English in [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Police_stop_LGBT_march_in_Istanbul_for_third_consecutive_year&amp;diff=4326291&amp;oldid=4326283 this article] and provided an explanation of changes?  I provided information; I didn't issue anyone a report card. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:40, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Addendum.  You told me that you're not always good at expressing yourself and the &quot;Is it this or something else?&quot; trick is something that has worked before.  Are you okay with me using it or does it bother you? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:04, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
:::: No, Wikinews is not like Wikipedia.  I have sensed for some time, and your remarks support this, that you are stagnating &amp;mdash; failing to improve as a Wikinewsie &amp;mdash; because you're unwilling to recognize the expertise-driven nature of Wikinews.  Experience is at a premium here, and the entire project infrastructure is tuned to recognize and exploit it, in a very un-Wikipedian way.  It's not the sort of elitism promoted by the Foundation, which exploits expertise that some users have from elsewhere; here it's expected a user will continually learn, gradually advancing to become more part of the elite themselves.  If you're unable to admit that you have a lot still to learn, you prevent yourself from learning.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 06:30, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
::::::Pi zero, I never said I didn't have a lot to learn.  There is always more to learn.  I said the way you act toward me about it bothers me. I'm trying very hard not to take what you're saying here personally, but you're making some assumptions of your own.
::::::There is a difference between &quot;unwilling to recognize&quot; something and simply not having seen evidence of it.  Unless what you mean by &quot;expertise-driven nature&quot; refers to familiarity with Wikinews' specific rules and processes, in which case well then I'm not sure why you think I haven't recognized it.  You talk about Wikinews being different from Wikipedia, but my learning experience has been more involved with the Wikinews' differences from regular newspapers.
::::::You're coming off as &quot;I told you something, so why aren't you accepting it without question?&quot;  What you say ''does'' matter to me but not in that way. So far you also happen to be only person here whom I've seen talk like this.  I don't spend much time at the water cooler or anywhere but the newsroom, so perhaps there are people talking about it and I haven't run into them.  Is there some previous conversation, perhaps from years back, that you see as establishing this model?  I'd certainly give it a look.  Submitting to the will of the community is different from submitting to the will of another single individual.
::::::Your &quot;it's expected...&quot; comment again suggests some kind of specific sequential process.  I'm going to get a little speculative now and imagine a time a few years ago when Wikinews had a much larger population and you specifically saw cohort after cohort of new-to-Wikinews contributors coming in and observing that they mostly went through the same stages and followed the same pattern.  But now Wikinews has fewer people, not enough to be a cohort.  If this is what's going on, then I have not observed this pattern because, if it is still there, there are not enough people to make it visible as a pattern.  Do you think this might be it?
::::::I'm going to give what you said a lot of thought regardless.  Again, I'll try not to take it personally. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 10:23, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} I did not want to interrupt, but I need to point out that Darkfrog24, you aren't reflecting what you have learnt. About the ''teacher student thing'', you got to learn from experience. Pi zero learnt from experience, if I am not wrong. But after writing so many articles, 60 of them published, you are still there are certain things and policies anyone would expect from you. I have to agree, you add opinions (and thus, violate NPOV policy) in the articles you write. Either you are doing it deliberately, trying to get those things published by mistake (hoping a reviewer miss it) &amp;mdash; and that is really not good. But if you are not doing it purposefully, if you are not aware that you are doing this, that is worse. That consumes reviewer's time, and I wonder if you do this as the author of the article, what would you do if you become a reviewer! WN:Headlines and WN:Future are other things you need to brush up. Like the way you submitted the article with a headlines that did not explain a lot of things ([[Shooter targets Congressional baseball practice in Virginia, six hospitalized]]). 

Not to forget your argument about the choice of English. I don't want to bring up that American English is spoken only in a small fraction of the world, and not even everyone in the US prefers English (US). I listened to you, and agreed that it is okay to have diversity. But when I want to use the word &quot;thrice&quot;, you always have a problem. Why is that you have to change it every time? Just look above, I respected the choice of your English, and spelled &quot;hospitalised&quot; in the way you prefer.

Or the time when you did not care to source check about [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Police_stop_LGBT_march_in_Istanbul_for_third_consecutive_year&amp;diff=4326291&amp;oldid=4326283 this article] and instead of a comma, you thought it had to do something with where the parade was. 

When someone says &quot;you are expected&quot;, you are expected to stick to the policy, remove bias and opinions and respect the difference.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:18, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
:Learning from experience, as opposed to an individual person, is fine with me.
:I didn't source-check that article because I wasn't source-checking that article.  I was checking it for English usage. (They used to call that Wikignoming.) I made a point of going over the article about the pride parade without first looking at who drafted it because who drafted it is not important.  I would have made a note of &quot;thrice&quot; regardless of who used the word.  Frankly, I didn't remember that you and I had talked about it before.
:&quot;Hospitalized&quot;/&quot;hospitalised&quot; isn't a personal preference of mine.  Specific varieties of English require certain spellings.  It's more than fair if you don't want to take my word for it, though, and perhaps better if you don't.  If you need a source, [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/spelling/spelling/british-and-spelling Oxford Dictionaries] is one good one.
:I wanted to hear from more than one person.  You have obliged me.  If you have the time, can you give an example of when you feel I added an opinion or bias to an article?   I mean recently.  I remember doing something similar to that early on in Wikinews but I stopped when I realized we don't do editorializing. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:35, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
:: You need to show that you have learnt from your mistakes. When a reviewer has mentioned that you need to fix certain things, you should make sure that it won't happen again. I don't think you see the edit history, do you? Else your efforts to improve on those weak spots would have reflected in the articles you submit. And clearly, you would have missed [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Supreme_Court_of_India_begins_hearing_against_triple_talaq&amp;oldid=4313437 this]. I had inserted the word &quot;thrice&quot; again in the article. (You might have noticed if you had read the triple talaq article after it was published and not changed it in the Istanbul Pride article.) Not checking the sources for what the user said is not a good excuse. Do not give me those links. Instead of changing thrice to three times, you could have searched for &quot;thrice&quot;.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:18, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
::: Darkfrog24, in this context early ''experience'' comes from what experienced reviews have to say about your articles.  Other vectors for experience can't come into play until you've grasped the basic principles. &lt;p&gt; Here are three obstacles I suspect are holding you back in your growth as a Wikinewsie (obviously this is a simplication; &quot;it's more complicated&quot; is almost as universally unassailable as &quot;things could be worse&quot;):
:::* You reflexively want to disbelieve things if I say them.  (Perhaps it's a ''liability'' for you that you know me from another time and place?)
:::* You think of the core principles of Wikinews as if they were arbitrary positions, rather than a coherent natural resonance point in policy space.  (There's also a danger the Wikinews policy resonance point could be one that just doens't come naturally to you; at any rate, the point where you can start learning on your own is the one where you have an instinctive sense for that resonance, so you can always ground yourself to it, and if you can't accept help from veteran Wikinewsies to learn where the resonance is, that's a problem.)
:::* You don't want to believe that Wikinews social dynamics are in any profound way different from Wikipedia's.  (You seem to be treating experience on Wikinews as a shallower thing than it is.)
::: --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 16:39, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
::::''You reflexively want to disbelieve things if I say them''
::::Wow.  I can understand how that can be upsetting.  I was on the receiving end of something similar and I have an idea of how mindbending it can be.  ''No,'' that is absolutely not what I meant (and if it had been, you'd be right to be pissed off).  It is only that the things you're saying a very subjective and difficult to independently verify and that you are one person and not a many.  I am accepting that you could be wrong, not assuming that you must be wrong.  What I remember of you from WT:MoS is that your views were based on reason and your own experiences, not pulled from thin air, and presented in a civil manner.  A given idea coming from you has a credential, not a detriment.
::::I was thinking about this earlier and I put my finger on a big part of what's bothering me about your first post before I got back and read this one.  It's not that you made complaints about the ways in which the articles I draft do and don't match policy&amp;mdash;you're ''supposed'' to do that, and if it makes me uncomfortable, too bad for me.  It's that you're using those observations to draw inferences and assumptions about what I'm thinking and feeling and what my attitude is and what kind of person I am. &quot;Darkfrog24 didn't list the day in these two articles, so he/she must have no respect for rules.&quot; (Comment not drawn to scale; no this is not exactly what you said.) &quot;Darkfrog24 said he/she remembers that I could be wrong, so Darkfrog24 must reflexively want to disbelieve what I say.&quot; &quot;Darkfrog24 did this, so Darkfrog24 must not ''want'' to believe that.&quot; What could be a discussion of articles and policy and performance becomes unnecessarily personal.
::::Getting back to articles and performance.  I think it might be an issue with the model of a division of labor.  Like I said, I've put a lot of thought into this since last night.  Is it that you and Acagastya feel that, in order to become a reviewer, one should produce articles that need little to no review? 'Cause I can get on that.  To volunteer something about my thoughts and attitude, I've been thinking of &quot;drafter,&quot; &quot;proofreader/editor&quot; and &quot;reviewer&quot; as three different hats. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:26, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
::::: There are some deep things there I'd like to address.  To address them properly &amp;mdash; so that it's worth doing &amp;mdash; should not be rushed.  I clearly don't have time to do it properly atm.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:02, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

== ?? ==

It appears this has gone pretty stale: [[Lawyer, lawmaker parse President Trump's Tweets on obstruction of justice]]. Any chance you could spin it off into something more fresh?? -[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 21:37, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Bddpaux}} At this point, it would probably be better to start from scratch the next time one of them says something newsworthy on that issue.  That is why I removed it from the &quot;development&quot; hopper.  What are the mechanics for deleting it myself? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:39, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
:: Simplest is to let it slide into oblivion through the abandonment process.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:14, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

== [[After G20 meeting between Presidents Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, ceasefire in Syria but no firm plans for cybersecurity team]] ==

Difficult '''[[Talk:After G20 meeting between Presidents Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, ceasefire in Syria but no firm plans for cybersecurity team#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4329380 [Not ready]}}|review]]''' to write.  It was clear to me there was a problem, but not an easy one to articulate (well, I tried).  The article topic itself is a tricky one, since the information being provided is all suspect.  Even though a very large part of Wikinews neutrality is about [[WN:attribute|attributing]], there ''is'' more to it, and occasionally we do hit on stories that are especially easy to get in trouble with despite attribution.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:21, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

: I'm having great difficulty with review on this story, and I realize the reporting is no cakewalk either.  At any rate, after a struggle, I wrote up a set of '''[[Talk:After G20 meeting between Presidents Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, ceasefire in Syria but no firm plans for cybersecurity team#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4329875 [Not ready]}}|review comments]]'''.  The whole carry-along-and-update thing may be just getting in the way, here, since the original event was one that was dreadfully difficult to start with and I don't think we ever got clear of those difficulties.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:39, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

== [[U.S. president's son releases emails setting up meeting with Russian lawyer during 2016 presidential campaign|Donald Trump Jr. emails]] ==

This felt like &quot;old news&quot; to me.  You submitted it more than a day and a half ago, of course, which coincided with the start of a period during which I got no review done.  I've checked my schedule and the next specifically scheduled events I see on it are Monday morning and Tuesday morning (US east-coast time, UTC-4); I'm not doing well in the afternoons and evenings these days, but I hope that Saturday or Sunday morning I would be able to review an article of this sort (supposing it were already on the queue when I got up and started planning for the day).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:02, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
:Nature of the beast, Pi Zero, nature of the beast.  As always, your compunction does you credit.  I have a few things scheduled I'll see if I can spruce it up with some new developments.  What I saw in passing on the news today was that more information about the meeting has come out, but it remains to be seen (by me) whether this counts as a new event. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:26, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

== Robotics ==

In retrospect, the reason &quot;robotics&quot; didn't redirect to the category was that the category wasn't ready yet (I'm not sure it is now, either).  It didn't use {{tl|topic cat}}, and was... probably not fully populated.  {{tl|topic cat}} was the easy part.  There are over 2000 articles that match keyword &quot;robot&quot;, and it looks as if most of them don't belong in the category.  The general principle is to add an article to a category if, when researching our archives for articles on the topic of that category, one would like that article to be included on the list.  I'm still searching for a well-formulated principle on when an article about ''use'' of a robot does, versus when it does not, belong in the category.  Robots are used for a lot of things nowadays, and it wouldn't be useful to categorize every article that mentions the bomb squad used a robot, or the deep sea submersible was a robot, or the interplanetary probe was a robot.  If you've any thoughts on where to draw the line on this sort of thing, I'd be interested to hear.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:22, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:That is weird as heck because the &lt;nowiki&gt;[[CAT:Robotics]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; showed up fine right away.
:Well articles about Commander Data definitely shouldn't be in that category.  He was clearly an android.  I would cat an article about a Mars robot if the fact that it was a new kind of robot specially designed for the mission (or adapted in some significant way).  Your concern seems to be that as robots become increasingly common just the fact that a robot is there is slowly ceasing to be enough reason to cat.  So let's use the same criteria we use for cars and airplanes.  Let's say we're writing an article that's not specifically about a car or plane, say about how an important person, say the President of Mexico, goes on a visit to say Ottowa.  We would mention the kind of car or plane he took if 1) it was a new kind of car or plane especially designed for this trip or 2) if something about the way that car or plane is different from other planes ''affected'' the core idea of the journey.  If President Peña was only able to outrun those pesky Omaha Barrier Bandits because he was in an expertly restored Mustang and all twelve of them were riding in a single Prius, that'd be worth a &quot;cars&quot; cat.  If his plane were struck by lightning because Embraer forgot to take sprites into account when designing its new Madeup 202, we'd cat it &quot;planes.&quot; But if his choice of mode of transportation had no effect on the rest of his trip, then no.
:So &quot;Is the robot there?&quot; is not enough. &quot;Did the robot do something newsworthy or newsworthy-adjacent?&quot; is.  Here, it was a robotics contest, so pretty much core concept. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

== [[After visa snags, all-girl Afghan team honored for corageous achivement at international robotics competition]] ==

I feel I shouldn't let myself get sloppy about redundant sourcing when it's &quot;convenient&quot;; I repeat the point endlessly with the students, after all.

I did do a preliminary check for similarities with sources, and tweaked the few smallish bits I noticed before submitting my review, thus discharging the notes I'd taken on that point.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:04, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:Yeah, everyone was saying Trump &quot;intervened&quot; so I figured overusing that one was out.
:What do you teach? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:08, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

:: Heh.  I meant the students who are sent Wikinews way by their university journalism professors.  (Since you've been here, there was that UoW class who came through; there used to be a professor at Southern Indiana who had his students do various projects on Wikinews, but we haven't heard from him in several years that I recall.)  I've never taught a class, although I did spend quite a lot of years in graduate school as a Teaching Assistant.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:14, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

== Opinions (aka Comments) pages ==

I guess maybe this hadn't come up in our discussions before (well, if it had, I've forgotten).

We don't create the opinions page of an article until the moment of publication.  There are technical problems &amp;mdash; it needs to be set up correctly, for the somewhat bubble-gum-and-duct-tape LQT extension to work right &amp;mdash; but the deeper principle is that the opinions page is to discuss the topic addressed by the content of the published article, and that isn't known until the article is published so we don't let that discussion start with a moving target before publication (the content might not even be ''neutral'' yet if one starts earlier, after all).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:49, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:I noticed that things tended to happen in that order but I didn't know there was any particular reason for it. Thanks. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:20, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:: I've copied the remark to the opinions page.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:34, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

== [[Polish President Andrzej Duda vetoes law placing Supreme Court under power of ruling party]] ==

Snag.  '''[[Talk:Polish President Andrzej Duda vetoes law placing Supreme Court under power of ruling party#{{anchorencode:Review of revision 4333136 [Not ready]}}|Review comments]]'''.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:53, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

== Translated your article ==

into Dutch [[n:nl:Meer balans bij spreken in de derde persoon]], (not by me, but a colleague on NL Wikinews) --[[User:LIVE NIEUWS|Livenws]] ([[User talk:LIVE NIEUWS|talk]]) 17:43, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
:Wow!  What great news.  Thanks for telling me.  I was a little disappointed because en.Wikinews' corroboration rules haven't been met for this article yet, but I guess some good came of it after all. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:01, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

== [[Israel moves to ban on Al Jazeera news network, accusing it of sponsoring terrorism]] ==

Looks like be both were editing at the same time, without causing edit conflicts. I was planning to review it, but now I feel I would do it after dinner. I am removing it from {{tl|under review}}. You may carry on copyediting work.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 13:53, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

== You might have noticed... ==

...that I have corrected the way you add external links, multiple times. Could you please use {{tl|source}} template from the next time? Thank you!&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 15:48, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Acagastya}} I see the disconnect here.  I did notice that you changed the external link format, but I don't view that as a correction per se.  The Wikinews style guide does not stipulate a preferred format for external links, and I've seen other articles that posted the external links this way, though I don't remember which ones right now, so I figured you were making a neutral change among correct options.  If you feel this is a correct vs incorrect issue, it would be appropriate to propose adding some text the style guide. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:00, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
::Not everything has to be mentioned in the rules. And it wouldn't take a genius to notice that it would be better if we want to maintain uniformity, let's say the template was changed in the future.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 17:15, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
:::No, not everything, just the things you want people to treat like rules and already know about before you talk to them.  Of the active reviewer population, 50% (one out of two people) just expressed a preference for using the source format for external links.  Yes, you cited a good reason for this preference, but there's a point at which remembering every reviewer's take on what makes an ideal article becomes burdensome. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:38, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
::::Let's not divulge the discussion in the amount of active editors. The thing is, there is not good reason not to use the template, while there is a good reason to use it. This is not a rule, you could substitute the whole code of {{tl|source}} there. But at the end, that is not going to help. Portability is an issue, and we should try to improve it.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 17:47, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
::::: (I think the word you're looking for is ''diverge''. :-) &lt;p&gt; Fwiw, I've never worried too terribly much about whether external links use {{tl|source}}.  It does make sense to me that if the link is amendable to specifying the sorts of information provided by the template &amp;mdash; especially, if it has a date of publication &amp;mdash; it'd be nice to use the template and thus provide information in a familiar format.  But the fields of {{tl|source}} provide information that are important to know about when assessing a ''source for the article'', whereas an external link doesn't have the content of the article riding on it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:13, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::::I meant that because there are so few reviewers, individual preferences have greater relative importance.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:21, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::::: Some things are a matter of individual preference, some really are not.  It ''is'' harder to tell the difference between the two by looking at reviewers' behavior when the sample size is so small.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:29, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::That's it exactly.  If something is written down, then it's a rule or at least it was at one point.  If something is merely talked about, it might just be what that individual person thinks is best. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:41, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::: Not everything written down has equal status as a rule; and not everything unwritten (or poorly articulated) is unimportant.  I guess I'm not disagreeing with you, but perhaps clarifying.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:07, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::You're just telling me how you see things in the subject that we are discussing.  This is called &quot;conversation.&quot; If we keep it up, the earthlings will never suspect a thing. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:54, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

== [[WN:Never assume]] vs NPOV ==

We are advised not to assume things on-wiki. But the &quot;never assume&quot; clause could be problematic. Your articles generally focus on US politics (or anything that mentions Trump) In some way or the another, those articles highlight that Trump did something which is not acceptable. Fine, not a problem. But then, I have (as well as the other reviewer has) noted you often break NPOV. Now it could be a pure coincidence that I think this article about firing someone, in headlines, indicates Trump, who is US president, fired someone''. Whom did he fire, or why did he fire? There is no explanation!'' So as a reader, I assume Trump took advantage of his position and fired someone (who probably had nothing to do with Trump, else it would be mentioned) For the reviewers and editors, you can ask them not to assume these things, but how would you convince a reader? There are ways one can troll someone/ provide incorrect or misleading information in headlines. In any case, NPOV is one of the pillars, not &quot;never assume&quot;. Looking at this, as a reviewer, we have to try hard to find whether there is a hidden troll is hidden somewhere in the article, if something cleverly violates NPOV et cetera. If an experienced writer does this, there is something wrong with them to follow the pillars and/or conflict of interest—and in that case, things get difficult for a reviewer. If a n00b does it, that is a different story. But you are making things difficult for reviewers. One can shield from COIs and NPOVs via never assume, if we don't pay proper attention. And it makes reviews more challenging. You don't want us to waste time looking for possible bias. (But the current image of yours is that bias is present in some of your articles.)&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/106.216.161.125|106.216.161.125]] ([[User talk:106.216.161.125|talk]]) 09:01, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
:&quot; other reviewer &quot;
:So you're a reviewer.  Log in.
:Within twenty-four-hours, you've called other people's suggestions &quot;ridiculous&quot; and complained both about a problem and our efforts to solve it.  Log in so that I know you're not just messing with me. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:58, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
::Why do you want me to log in? How would it solve your problems with Npov? Did it solve when I was logged in? And for the one last time, I did not say Gryllida's comments were ridiculous. The approach to clarify the country by saying &quot;White House of the United States&quot; sounds unnatural, and that is ridiculous. Address the problems about npov. If you think I am messing around, ask the reviewer who reviewed most of your articles.&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/103.254.128.118|103.254.128.118]] ([[User talk:103.254.128.118|talk]]) 13:57, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
::: Either you are who you pretend to be, or you're not.  If you're not, you're messing around.  If you ''are'', refusing to log in at this point could reasonably be construed as messing around.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:11, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
:Bias is best resolved on a specific article talk page, in a collaborative fashion, aiming to present the material neutrally. (Coverage of one topic is a good thing; we get an audience of people who know this topic well, and may add another story.) --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:23, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

== I've left you a [[Talk:Third_person_inner_monologue_is_good_for_more_than_just_sounding_cool,_say_scientists|new message]] ==

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:20, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
:Followed up. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:26, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

== I've left you a message at [[Talk:U.S._President_Trump_dismisses_Breitbart's_'Bannon_the_Barbarian,'_who_promises_'war'_in_print|Breitbart dismissal story talk page]] ==

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:46, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

== What to expect re. &quot;FOIA attack on 'Restoring Internet freedom'&quot;? ==

May I ask what I should expect and what, if anything, I should be doing re. [[FOIA attack on 'Restoring Internet freedom']]?  

I ask, because it's been over 49 hours since I first posted the article and over 22 hours since the last edit (apart from Pi zero adding my name to a &quot;Collaboration&quot; comment I made, then forgot to add &lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;).  I ask you, because you seem to have spent the most time with that article, other than me.  

I lost the third story I wrote for Wikinews, because I misread what someone had written and waited two or three days for a reviewer to take the next step while the reviewers were waiting for me to respond.  :-(  

Should I change the name of the article to &quot;'Restoring Internet Freedom' bill challenged under United States Freedom of Information Act&quot;, which you suggested?  It's fine with me if someone else does that.  Pi zero earlier changed the title from &lt;&lt;FOIA attack on &quot;Restoring Internet freedom&quot;&gt;&gt; to &lt;&lt;FOIA attack on 'Restoring Internet freedom'&gt;&gt; (replacing double quotes with single quotes).  

Do you want me to pick a photo of Pai to add?  I've seen his picture enough places, I'm happy not having it here.  However, its fine with me if someone else does that -- using that either in place of or in addition to the graphic I created for it.  

Should I change the description of Pai to his official title, as suggested by Gryllida?  Again, it's fine with me if someone else does that.  

I just didn't want to take the lead in making any of these changes, especially since they were posed in terms of modest suggestions, but I don't see any as superior to what I wrote -- though I would not object if someone else just made the change.  

This story is not changing as fast as events in Egypt was when Mubarak was overthrown, as you and Pi zero discussed above.  And the timeliness issue got a reboot when I learned yesterday that Pai had done something that morning:  Without that, the story was already two days old when I discovered it and posted the first draft. 

Thanks for your interest and support on this story.  [[User:DavidMCEddy|DavidMCEddy]] ([[User talk:DavidMCEddy|talk]]) 02:13, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

: &amp;lt;dropping in&amp;gt; {{ping|DavidMCEddy}} I think the ball is in my court.  To state the obvious, I've been having trouble getting to review for the past few days.  I got up this morning ''really really determined'' to review that article immediately, that morning, and... more the fool I, for all that determination.  I started to plan out a not-ready review of that article, and then, it just hasn't happened yet.  Even now I'm hoping to get it done before I get to bed tonight, though in recent years I've had mostly bad luck when attempting late-in-the-day review.  This, of course, is part of a known difficulty of the Wikinews review process, and is part of what I have targeted with my long-range plans, which makes no difference at all to the immediate situation.  But for whatever clarity it may provide to the situation, that's how I see it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:07, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
::EDIT CONFLICT: I think I see the core problem here.  You want to know why your article hasn't been reviewed yet.  It's 1) because the review team's small and they have to budget their time (as Pi Zero says) and 2) ''because the talk page discussions are still ongoing.''  Most of the time, the reviewers won't start work on an article if there are any active collaboration page discussions.  That's one of the rules they have to follow: address any issues brought up on the talk page.  If it looks like those things haven't settled out yet, they will wait.
::Basically, the reviewers are waiting for the rest of us to do our jobs before they start theirs.  You flattered me by asking a bunch of other questions, so I'll answer them:
::#) Yes, you should follow Gryllida's suggestion.  Pai's full, official title should be in the article at least once.  It's usually best to put it at the first mention.  This is more or less required by Wikinews' rules.
::#) Yes, you should change the title to something that reflects the article's new focal event.  That can be my suggestion or something else.  A title targeting the focal event is required.
::#) You do not have to add the picture of Pai.
::#) I'm not sure if we're allowed to use your graphic, since anything you make is technically your copyright, unless you have officially released it for re-use for any purpose.  The guys on Wikimedia Commons would know more about this.
::#) In general, you should not wait to do anything that ''needs'' to be done before the article can be reviewed, anything non-optional.  That would mean compliance with the pillars, style guide, and sourcing rules.
::#) Sometimes you will write a ''perfect'' article and it will still time out for lack of review.  It's just the nature of the beast and we all have to accept it.
::Here on Wikinews, the drafter of the article (that's you) plays a much bigger role than the first major contributor does in a Wikipedia article.  Technically no one ''has'' to ask your permission to make changes, but many Wikinewsies will be shy about making big ones (other than fixing spelling, etc.).  We're still a team and we all have to follow rules, but you're team leader. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:10, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

== News ==

Let me make this short and simple. Just like how a Muslim is expected to follow basic pillars of Islam, a Wikinewsie is supposed to do the same with Wikinews's pillars. See the word &quot;news&quot;. Whatever we say, it has to be new. There can not be any exceptions. If you can not tell the &quot;new&quot; thing, either the story is not new, or you need to learn how to say it. In this case, purple frog, the only new thing is the sources. Since they announced last month, it is pointless attempt getting it through review. Two things you should be really careful about. &quot;New&quot; focal event. And unbiased reporting. That is the mission of this project. If it were an obituary, where the family broke the information after x days, I could have considered it. Because the focus becomes family announcing death. In this case it was reported a month ago, and nothing can be done about the synthesis.&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/103.254.128.118|103.254.128.118]] ([[User talk:103.254.128.118|talk]]) 17:58, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Acagastya}} do you mean that this is you posting? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:00, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
::Can you stop testing my patience and use your common sense? Do you understand priorities? Do you even take it seriously? What is more important—complying with the project mission, and actually trying to see what the IP is trying to say, or trying to shield yourself from it just by saying, &quot;oh you are a troll, I don't answer trolls&quot;.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 05:15, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
:::What I think you're getting at is &quot;even if the IP ''was'' a troll, you shouldn't ignore their post!&quot; I didn't.  I read it, actually.  I just kept the response to myself so as not to encourage someone who was clearly not here for a serious discussion.  Claiming I &quot;went berserk&quot; by saying &quot;log in so I know you're not a troll&quot;?  That's what people do when they want to start a fight.
:::Getting back to the purple frog article, we are agreed that all articles on Wiknews must be new.  They must be fresh.  The issue is that this doesn't mean the same thing for all types of content.  Science publishing is inherently different from the reporting of current events, politics, weather and sports because of the secrecy involved and the lag time from peer review.
:::The research itself is almost always the real story.  Using the publication date as a focal point sometimes appeases the two-day limit, but surely we can come up with a better guideline for whether research findings are fresh or not.  There's nothing magical about the number two.
:::So I have a question for you:  According to Acagastya, what does it mean to be fresh?  What does a fresh article do to or for the reader that a stale one does not?  You want me to learn from you.  This is where I can learn from you.  This is the kind of question where hearing what you think might change what I think. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:45, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
::::You know: all of these things, let it be discovery of some ancient animal, death of some chancellor, finding a new exoplanet …out of seven billion people in the world, these things affect lot of people when it happens, but after some time, nobody cares. Now don't get disturbed because I said nobody. Who really cares: fanboys, haters and stat lovers. That is the sad part of news media. Latest things affect people. Nobody buys old news. Report something when it happened. That is new, and might qualify for news. Something that is news would eventually become archive. But to become an archive, it should be said when it happened. Our policy allows three days, Spanish Wikinews allows a week, and if you ask me, two days. Do you know when I wrote Trudeau's article, and it wasn't even the third day, it was marked stale because most of the people knew about it by the time it could be under review. In this case, the purple frog might find a spot on the archive, that is Wikipedia. Current events in every field affects individuals. But after passage of time, we are too busy with newer things that we hardly care what happened sometime ago. Now things like demonetisation in India or LGBT rights in Germany would still affect the people, reporting it now is pointless. Report the incidents when it affects the most number of people the most—that is when it happened. We are preoccupied. And by we, I mean any reader. How current things affect market, economy, income, lifestyle, comfort, peace, tension — these things work under the hood. After a point in time, new things replace those who affected those things. And this cycle continues. We should work with this cycle. It is not that you never experienced the sad part of news media, but that is the truth. Other news websites work so people read, and they get money, or have some stock value, or something that would help them eat two square meals, at least, and help them fulfill their needs. Money guides a lot of things, and it can be clearly observed if you compare a local daily and an international news website. Why news companies like the BBC would not report about a local motorcycle theft in a small town in Bangladesh, but would cover their political elections. While Wikinews is not guided by the money, readers are. Not actually money, but how would their lives be affected by those events. Like for example Jeff Bezos becoming the richest man might have something to do with stock holders of AMZN, but it is a long forgotten thing, and it hardly affects anyone to care about it. Since Wikinews deals with anything that affects few hundreds or thousands of people, a car crash might be newsworthy. But in the end, if it is not current, it is not newsworthy. You want to know how things affect people of various age group and sex: I would have told you, but read that poem by Shakespeare about seven stages in life, and try to connect it with what affects people in that age the most.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 06:57, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
:::''Report something when it happened''
:::By that standard, we would report almost no scientific discoveries, because they are almost always made weeks and months before they are published in any forum.
:::Next question: ''National Geographic'' and ''The Hindu'' and the other sources that covered this discovery clearly didn't think it was too stale to cover.  Why do you think that is and why do you think Wikinews should not share their standards?  Do you think there's money involved?
::: You have stimulated my thinking in this way:  Most discoveries are of things that are ongoing or longstanding, like &quot;this protein affects cancer in this way (and has been doing so the whole time; we just didn't know about it).&quot; Like this frog has been in the Western Ghats for millions of years.  It's only that ''people'' just found out about it.  The criterion for science news should be the degree to which people have already found out about the discovery.
:::Say it was something like the identity of Deep Throat.  Mr. F. really was Deep Throat the whole time; he just kept it a secret for decades.  But the ''release'' of that information to the public was news.  I don't think we'd reject that story just because he told a small number of people the month before the public found out. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:41, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
::::This is where you are wrong. For scientific discoveries, the focal point is &quot;them disclosing what they have found&quot;.
:::::{{quoteuser|Next question: National Geographic and The Hindu and the other sources that covered this discovery clearly didn't think it was too stale to cover. Why do you think that is and why do you think Wikinews should not share their standards? Do you think there's money involved?}} 
::::Why we should not share their standards? Because we are not them. NatGeo is not a news website, at the first place (Don't point towards the BBC and BBC News — NatGeo never dedicated itself for news). And Wikinews is different from other news websites. Other sources provides opinion (The Hindu does that, yes). They publish wardrobe malfunction (all bow before ToI). Taking the example of The Independent, they even write what the Queen of England eats, which is not even news. Others are free to downgrade their quality, break the laws of journalism. Wikinews is not going to be a part of it.
::::No matter how important the stories are — let it be killing of Osama bin Laden in 2011 or the Japan tsunami in the same year — people stop giving a damn, after a point in time. Surely it affected millions of people when it happened, but as I said, new things would replace the old &quot;news&quot;. I met someone from Manchester a week ago. When they said Manchester, the first thing that came to my mind was Manchester bombing (not Man Utd or Man City, despite being a football fan, and him talking about Man Utd). If they would have said Madrid, I would not think of 2004 Madrid bombing. Sooner or later, things go out of fashion. Wikinews should publish news which becomes archive, not directly jumping to archive — leave that for Wikipedia. For the part where money is involved — The Hindu is not a good news source. But it is better than other mediocre news websites in India (yes, ToI, I am talking about you). Did you read the headline of that article? &quot;'N.bhupathi', a frog with the face of a pig&quot; Who would even want to click it? Read the first para and tell we why should I read the next one?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 13:20, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
::::::It seems you're also reacting to whether the N. bhupathi article would have been suitable even if it had been dated August 26. From my perspective, the N. bhupathi article is over.  It was rejected once, I addressed the problem as I saw fit and re-submitted it.  It was rejected a second time.  From my perspective that's &quot;asked and answered.&quot;
::::::But I will be writing more science articles.  I think the core difference between the two of us is what the article is really about.  If the meat of announcement is ''when did it become knowable to the public'', what do we do when that's not the literal publication date? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:37, 27 August 2017 (UTC)


::::::: Just dropping in for a few miscellaneous thoughts.  (Clearly I oughtn't spend a lot of time here, with things piling up appallingly on the review queue.)  I'm not even going to ''try'' to get into the issue of similarities and differences of Wikinews standards to those of mainstream media (''way'' too big).
:::::::* We don't write ''surveys'' of scientific developments, retrospectives with nothing new in them.  But I think you'd find most mainstream news sites don't, either; they'd go out and at least talk to folks and get some new quotes and such.  Perhaps our standards for just how much OR is needed might be faintly different, but, really, if one is reaching out to these people, why not get a bit more?  We've had a bunch of imho nifty science OR of this sort, a solution that makes it irrelevant that the intial public announcement of the research is no longer fresh (and of course freshness of OR works differently).  A large fraction of our OR gets published in the form of transcribed interviews, and in a recent IRC discussion that form was criticized; I'm inclined to defend it as a straightforward way to produce a viable publication, with the proviso that a good interview has a [[WN:synthesis|synthetic]] introduction, but I'm quite willing to agree that much of our ''very best'' OR incorporates interview material without being a mere transcript; as exemplars of the two forms I might cite
::::::::: {{wikinews|title=Cold as ice: Wikinews interviews Marymegan Daly on unusual new sea anemone|date=January 21, 2014}}
::::::::: {{wikinews|title='Fascinating' and 'provocative' research examines genetic elements of bipolar, schizophrenia|date=October 1, 2011}}
:::::::* I don't think the Deep Throat revelation thing is really analogous to a scientific paper that's been published in a peer-reviewed journal.  Just saying.
:::::::* Tbh, it seems pretty clear to me that the difference here is ''not'' what the article is about.  I keep trying to treat this as a discussion of a (radical) opinion on policy, but then, from time to time in the discussion, there are these moments where it becomes particularly clear (kind of like the sun coming out from behind a cloud) that you really are misunderstanding a basic concept about news.  One of the most basic slogans of Wikinews is brianmc's classic '''Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.'''
::::::: --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:53, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} I am not reacting to that article, okay. I was talking about how The Hindu presented the article. What shit they are spreading about Prince Charming? The next thing you would demand is that bullshit in the beginning of Wikinews articles. It looks like The Hindu's author wanted to write a blog.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 14:09, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
::::::::For reasons that have nothing to do with our disparate interpretations of WN:FRESH, I don't want to do original reporting right now.  You're saying &quot;if you want to post that article, do this extra thing; then our other issue will be moot.&quot; That's extremely constructive.  But if we can deal with the other issue head on so we don't have to make it moot, that would be even better.
::::::::'''news ceases to be news''' The fundamental issue seems to be &quot;what makes it news?&quot;  Is it whether people have already heard about it?  Is it whether people have only begun to be affected by it?  Is it whether it actually didn't exist before?  The other question is &quot;How do we deliver science news that is as fresh as our other news, given that peer review and the weird science publishing schedule produces a lag?&quot; When you're dealing with different materials, sometimes you have to process them with different techniques to produce results of the same quality.  Don't cook broccoli for as long as you'd cook a pot roast. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:51, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} I bet there are lot of people who are unaware of &quot;Murderous Mary&quot;. That does not make her execution newsworthy. Many would find that story interesting and most of them would have no idea about it does not mean it is good enough to be news.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 16:25, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
:It sounds like the issue with Murderous Mary is ''significance'' rather than timing.  Like I said above, ''in addition to'' your concerns about the July 31 ''Alytes'' publication date, it sounds like you also think that the description of Bhupathy's purple frog just isn't big enough news by itself, that you rejected the article for at least two separate reasons.
:It also sounds like you believe that what makes an article newsworthy is not exclusively whether people have heard about it yet.  I can certainly use this to refine my idea.  This is helpful.  So perhaps it's more &quot;people have not yet heard about it but would&quot; or something like that.  It can't just be whether they'll be affected because people in Indonesia aren't that affected by a hurricane in Texas but we still call that news.  I will ponder this further. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:13, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
::The article failed to identify what is so important about this discovery. Is it a missing link? Does his poop yield gold? Can they regenerate? What? The only thing that was sort of important was how they adapted themselves to live, and the way you presented it–even with biology as my background, I did not find it newsworthy. You know very well that trying to sound like my advise is &quot;not to write about certain things&quot; is pointless. A. I really don't care what you try to do about it (incidentally, looking at your records, you don't care to write about events which did not happen in U.K. Or US.) let me remind you what is newsworthy: something that affects a few hundreds or thousands of people is newsworthy. One Wikinewsie once said (I can't remember who) &quot;before starting an article, think will this affect a school teacher in Manila? If not, you are wasting your time&quot;. While opinions of Wikinewsies differ about it, the article must be written in a news standard. That article was written so poorly, that I was wondering what to say! &quot;Green cousins&quot; — what do you think of Wikinews? Is this some kind of blog website that you present things in such an ambiguous and confusing way? News got to have something unique, interesting thing. Which you could not, for that article. I must say, you have cultivated a habit to deflect the underlying problem like a naïve newbie. Alas, I don't feed those frogs.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 17:31, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
:::See on that point, I don't ''happen'' to agree with you but I don't see that as a problem.  Our differences of opinion about what makes an article fresh vis a vis &quot;is it recent enough?&quot; are maybe not a ''problem'' per se, but it's likely to come up again and Pi zero's said he wants it resolved before he'd change his mind about my bid for reviewership.  As to whether &quot;is this ''important'' enough?&quot; that's just going to happen once in the while and I don't see that as a big deal.
:::As to events that didn't happen in the U.K. or U.S., you know this frog was found in India, right?  And I did that whole string of articles about the murder if Kim Jong Nam.
:::Back to developing a working definition of freshness: &quot;The readers won't have heard about it yet ''and'' it's a sufficiently big deal.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:03, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
::::(don't start squeaking because I didn't log in) by your last statement, even the execution of Mary would qualify for news. What do you have to say about it?&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/103.254.128.118|103.254.128.118]] ([[User talk:103.254.128.118|talk]]) 18:41, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::Acagastya, if this is you, say &quot;yes this IP user is me.&quot; Anon103: If you're not Acagastya, then log in.  I am willing to tolerate some rudeness from an editor who's proven himself to have other good qualities but not from an anonymous user who hasn't. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:58, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
::::::Regardless of who posted it, tell me, what do you say about execution of Mary? Since you said: &quot;The readers won't have heard about it yet ''and'' it's a sufficiently big deal.&quot;&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 06:20, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Acagastya, I want to know if I am talking to one person or two people.  If you say this IP user is you, then I will answer the posts.  If you don't, I'll delete them.
:::::::To answer you, I've never heard of &quot;Murderous Mary&quot; before just now.  Whether or not her execution is news depends on why I haven't heard about it.  If it's because it was so recent, then it's probably news.  If it's because it was long ago or unimportant, then probably not. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:23, 28 August 2017 (UTC)


Got another one.  The thing about science news is the lag between the actual event and public access to it.  We had another article about a political prisoner who'd been executed, but the public only found out about it recently.  I'm blanking on exactly who it was right now.  But I'd say the difference is that in ''that'' case the fact that the government had kept the execution secret and not told the man's spouse was news because such things are notable and unusual.  Whereas in science publishing the lag for peer review is normal, standard, deliberate and expected. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:28, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
:It really matters how you respond to messages by IPs. (Don't you rename the subheading•remember you complained when I changed your message to bullet points, and you didn't like it, I expect you to reflect the same.) Let's not talk in the air. Tell me which article are you talking about? Bassel Khartabil? Cite what you are saying. Your definition of freshness didn't mention &quot;sufficiently recent&quot;. So, according to your definition, Mary's execution is news. Which is not possible. Since you do not choose to answer about all of the points, let me remind you: focal point/newsworthy thing about a scientific discovery is its announcement. Go and check the articles: they always say when the study was published.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 13:11, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
::There is a difference between changing headers and changing someone's posts.  Your posts have your name on them.  It is perfectly natural to provide more specific headers as the conversation changes.
::It ''does'' matter how we respond to IPs.  Most IPs are just regular people who want to help, comment or ask questions.  But ''this'' IP has acted like a troll and I don't have to encourage that.  Even if the IP had been perfectly constructive, ''it matters whether I'm talking to one person or two people''.
::I don't happen to remember which article it was, and I didn't see it when I checked.  So who's Murderous Mary?
::&quot;They always say when the study was published&quot; does not mean that the date of publication is really the important part.  That's what I'm trying to do here.  Once we work out what really makes a story fresh for the reader, we can come up with a rule of thumb that works better for science news than this arbitrary two-day business.  So what do you think of different kinds of lag? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:24, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
:::The thing about science articles, or obituaries is: we say when did they die/discover, or announce it -- give a couple of quotes, and then speak what they did in their life/studied for years.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 13:53, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
::::So you think science articles are more like obituaries.  Right now my knee-jerk is to disagree.  Death itself is an event.
::::You think we should slow this down and come back tomorrow or something? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:49, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::Now, my limit has reached and I literally mean it: use your common sense. What I am trying to say is both &quot;obituary&quot; and &quot;discovery&quot; articles start when when &quot;a person died&quot; and &quot;when and who discovered something&quot;. After the lede, the only &quot;current&quot; or &quot;new&quot; thing about it is the &quot;quotes&quot; about the discovery, or &quot;tribute&quot; to the dead -- may it be in any form. Apart from it the whole article says 0% &quot;new&quot; or &quot;current&quot; thing. Do not include X is survived by Y&quot; because that would not help it cover the minimal length. So for obituary, one writes about what they did in life. After all, if they ''did'' do something notable enough, one would write a newsworthy obituary. In case of a discovery or a study -- one would cover up the things they (scientists) found out months, or years ago. Are we clear now? Though one wants to say about the &quot;death&quot;, or a &quot;study&quot;, one can't cross the minimal length.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 16:40, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
::::::''Now, my limit has reached'' Yes, you're being rude.  Discerning fine distinctions and working out definitions is fun for me, but it seems you're tired of it.  I have a response to the substance of your post ready, but I will post it tomorrow after we've both had a break. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:11, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} this may seem a game for you, but for me, when someone who understands English, concludes that what they could understand is acagastya is trying to say is an obituary and a discovery article is same, this is not a game. Nobody needs any experience in journalism to understand that. You want to deviate from the primary topic, fine. I am not going to. Do whatever you like. But don't expect me to cross paths with pillars like how you do.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 17:41, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
:I didn't say it was a game (thing done solely for fun that doesn't really matter).  I said it was fun.  I enjoy working out definitions and fine distinctions the way some people might enjoy organizing a supply closet or building a deck.  To some people these things are just chores.  To others they're enjoyable chores.  I just don't want you to mistake ''response'' for argument or hostility. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:47, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

===Nuclear fusion example===
Okay new scenario.  I saw [http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a27961/mit-nuclear-fusion-experiment-increases-efficiency/ this] today, from ''Popular Mechanics''.  That's nuclear fusion.  This stuff could change the world and because it's only now hitting the science-for-laypeople publications, it's ''possible'' to write an article such that people could read about it on Wikinews ''before'' general pubs like ''The New York Times'' publish on it.  That's the pattern for science news: first the journals, then Eurekalert and popular science mags, then the newspapers.  But because [https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys4167.epdf?author_access_token=kPYxN3CzZYD2LT4Si32eOdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0MmuIUEPmNcONMVzXjNf2zbVw9w-V0n8MdnZGKP1E4gbnnf8HWpVEg2srMePcKJH7P-Epjuig2d7CKPHhckCLXI the study itself] came out more than a few days ago, it's uncoverable on Wikinews if we interpret the freshness rule the same way we would for politics or sports.  That's where all this &quot;what gives?&quot; is coming from.  Professional news outlets are either not evaluating freshness in science news using the same criteria they use for other types of news ''or they are evaluating all of them using criteria different from Wikinews'''. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:36, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
::There are so many things that changes how the people live. Let it be the same-sex marriage legalised in the US two years ago, or send to be discussed in Chile, two days ago. But after some time, it is not &quot;new&quot; to be news. You could make a bot which would notify you whenever a study is published in a journal so you can work on it as soon as possible. I remember I could not find any sources for Debian related article. It was losing freshness, and it didn't receive main stream attention, similarly with Stielike's article. Wikinews published the article even before it hit the MSM. You should aim to share things as fast as possible, not push it back.&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/103.254.128.118|103.254.128.118]] ([[User talk:103.254.128.118|talk]]) 02:36, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
:::1) '''Log in.'''
:::2) The problem with using bots is a) it only works if you already know that a particular study is about to be completed, and like I said scientists tend to keep their work under wraps (kind of like how I'm expecting the Turtle Survival Alliance to report the results of their attempt to breed ''Rafetus swinehoei'' and have subscribed the their mailing list accordingly) and b) Wikinews cannot publish unless there are at least two ''independent'' sources.  The journal article on cold fusion came out months ago, but other sources are only picking it up now.  ''That's'' why holding science news to the two-day rule doesn't work.  The study itself and the works discussing it are often published much more than two days apart. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:26, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
::::Make use of RSS. Or something like gpy. If you have a problem with how English Wikinews works, in this case, two independent sources, I can't help you. There are sources who write about those studies quickly, but those are not big websites. It is hard to find them, but not impossible.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 03:39, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::I tried to keep my cool, and tell you what you can do. But all you want to do is revert those edits, and not looking at the things listed, I wouldn't regret to say, do what you want to do -- but this is never going to work. You would end up wasting your time, and some time of reviewers to not-ready it. I would not be entertaining any talk page messages if I find any article with the similar problem. While I try to make things available faster, so the things that go out are &quot;new&quot;, you try to push &quot;old&quot; archived things.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 12:52, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
::::::Acagastya, I already told you that I'm reading every post that whoever-it-is leaves here.  I just don't want to reward possible trolling with a response.  ''If this IP user is you,'' say &quot;yes, that's me&quot; or &quot;this is Acagastya&quot; and I'll treat those posts as if they are signed.  If these are your posts but for some reason you don't feel like saying, then I will delete anything that seems even a little trollish or rude to me.  Acagastya the Wikinewsie has earned some consideration for his brash manner and time has shown that you don't mean any trouble by it.  It's just your shtick.  I can't say the same for an anonymous poster.
::::::I do not have a problem with the two-sources rule.  The project in this thread is to work out exactly what &quot;freshness&quot; is so that it can be applied to science news articles in a way that will bring the readers fresh news without excluding newsworthy subject matter on a technicality.
::::::So whether it's you or not, you've taken responsibility for the content of that post.  You got me: I don't know how to work RSS.  It sounds like what you're saying is &quot;the objection that no two sources occur close enough together does not hold up because RSS sources are published very soon after the original paper.&quot; Let's explore that.  So let's use this nuclear fusion article as an example.  Are there any reliable RSS-accessible sources that would have covered this shortly after the scientists published their work in ''Nature Physics''?  I'll do the legwork if you can get me started on how RSS works. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:21, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} Subscribe to the RSS feed. [http://feeds.nature.com/nphys/rss/current]&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 13:26, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
:Hm this still has the problem of 1) you'd already need to know that the study was there. 2) There's nothing here from June or July at all. 3) These looks like they're just links to the scientific studies themselves.  Am I missing something? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
::Why don't you read what an &quot;RSS&quot; is? Also, since I use Telegram, I can get a bot deal with the RSS and the technical stuff, giving me the news, out of it.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 14:24, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
:::Fair enough.  I just looked up how RSS works.  It sounds like it just proactively tells me what's going on on all the websites that I would be checking anyway.  It does not sound like it would provide access to publications that I didn't know about before that might have been covering the science news before the general sites like ''National Geographic'' and newspapers.  If that's correct, then the problem &quot;We're missing out on a lot of science news because of the lag between professional journals and mainstream corroboration&quot; still stands.
:::I'm going to think about this for another day and then bring a more organized poser to the water cooler.  You were kind enough to answer my questions but I think hearing some more voices might help too. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:21, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

== Trump..... ==

Tell you what....if you can get some more 'meat' worked into that article, I'll put the finishing touches on it. How's that sound?? --[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 15:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Bddpaux}} I wanted to give the news a good read before responding.  I decided to update [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Major_Houston_dam_overflows_as_Tropical_Storm_Harvey_thrashes_Texas this one] instead.  I think it could use another set of eyes, though.  Repeated updates are prone to error. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:40, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

== [['Sunken city' discovered off Tunisian coast]] ==

Reviewed. Please check the article talk page. Thank you. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]], [[WN:IRC|chat]]) 04:22, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

== Computer trouble ==

Hi everyone.  I am experiencing severe technical difficulty and may not respond to pings promptly. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 09:46, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
:For example, I can tell I got pinged for something but can't read the ping notices. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:34, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

== Travel ban; destroying North Korea ==

Just came to know Notth Korea and Venezuela are now in the list of travel ban. Sudan is not. Act fast, before it hits MSM. Maybe we can also freshen up “totally destroying North Korea” article too. (CC {{ping|Quinton Feldberg}})&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 00:10, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
:okay... [[User:Quinton Feldberg|Quinton Feldberg]] ([[User talk:Quinton Feldberg|talk]]) 00:29, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
::{{ping|Acagastya}} is this an article request or something?  And you're posting on my talk page because I've written articles on Korean before?  Why not just start the article and invite us to collaborate? (Hm, but I keep doing that and no one steps in...) [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:55, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
::Not a request as such. I generally ping editors whenever I hear about a story which I think would interest them. That is not my type of article, and you are better at it, so I asked on talk. Also, it would help freshen up the article about his speech.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 02:44, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

== Dyslexia: scientists claim cause of condition may lie in the eyes ==

I haven’t subscribed to scientific journals, but The Guardian published [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/dyslexia-scientists-claim-cause-of-condition-may-lie-in-the-eyes this] story. If you wish to write it, you need to it as soon as possible.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 04:59, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
:When you make posts like this on my talk page, I feel that you think you're doing me a favor but you're actually asking me to do you one.
:I looked at the article request page.  I've actually never seen it before.  Maybe it's time to bring the &quot;proposed article&quot; category back to the newsroom so you can post things like this where people will actually SEE them. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]])
::Neither I am doing a favour, or asking for it. Having or not having this article is not going to affect me in any way. But, I am telling for the greater good, for having the article on Wikinews. I hate it when I come to know about a story after it is no longer fresh. And I thought this might interest you. This is not a &quot;request&quot; as such, but article suggestions from the pool. That is what I wish we [various Wikinews editors from different languages] could do off-wiki.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 13:03, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
:::Then these messages are not coming off the way you intend them to.  I think we should bring back the proposed article space in the newsroom so you could pitch stories like this to the whole field. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:12, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
::::I disagree. I suggest articles to many editors. Some work on it, some don't. It is their decision, and my task is just to suggest them the articles.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 14:03, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
::::::Please don't make suggestions to me any more.  It's not something that's inherently bad, but it bothers me.  It is not coming off as just a suggestion. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:19, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} Sure.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 14:41, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks.  I appreciate it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:45, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

== Requested articles? ==

I see that you started  [[Mirror patterns in the eye may cause dyslexia, scientists say]] with this comment  (Beginning requested article), and was wondering where I can find the list (category?) of requested articles. I have an idea I would like to post for someone else who may be interested in developing it (i don't have the time myself). Would you please share this information with me? Thanks in advance, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 00:30, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Ottawahitech}}  The correct way to request articles is actually an issue right now.  I started the dyslexia article because Acagastya came to my talk page and suggested it (see above).  I personally don't like it when he does this, but that's probably just me, and there's no rule against it.
:There ''is'' an official [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Requested_articles#He_saved_his_life Requested Articles Page], but I'm not sure many people know about it.  I didn't know it was there until this week, and there's a link to it in the Newsroom.
:I recommend that you just start the article.  Give it a title, list any source that you may already know about, and leave it in development.  Where it says &quot;delete this line,&quot; write clearly &quot;I don't have time to write this article myself and I invite anyone in the Wikinews community to do so&quot; or something to that effect in your own words.  Do the same in the edit summary.  Put a line on the collaboration page.  I've expanded plenty of articles that had nothing but a title and one source.
:So that's it 1) you're allowed to post requests on other Wikinewsies' talk pages; 2) there's an official Requested Articles Page; 3) you can start the article and indicate that you want someone else to finish it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:41, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
::{{ping|Ottawahitech}} No, that is a wrong way to do. Newbies do not necessarily write &quot;news&quot; style headline. It is often encyclopedic like, (for example [[2017 Las Vegas Mass Shooting]]) In that case, saying &quot;I don't have time to write this article myself and I invite anyone in the Wikinews community to do so&quot; is incorrect, could be confused for [[WN:SD#A12]]. The article should not say that, it would be better to leave a note on talk page.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 08:28, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
:::Again, Acagastya, it says on the newsroom page &quot;Note: Instead of requesting articles, ''Write a quick brief.''&quot; If that's out of date, we could change it, but that is exactly what it says right now. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:04, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
:::: “news briefs” are no longer written. But a brief is different from, “I don’t have time to…”. Notes of that kind should be on the talk.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 11:30, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::But in general you're fine with Ottawahitech just starting an article so long as the title's okay and the note describing his or her intentions is in the right place?  Great.  Ottawa, do that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:31, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::: {{check mark}} '''Done'''. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 15:08, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} That user has created almost a dozen articles, and only one was published -- I remember when I joined, and faced a similar situation. So I can related. Really. So I am fine. But that does not guarantee other admins/reviewers/users doing it. At the same time, I advice newbiews to see observe and learn from what others are doing. If someone else does it, and if they don't do it properly, it would be marked with A12.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 15:19, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
=== Request for help not working ===
I posted a new article in development at [[Rental unit overrun by maggots, mould and feces after city program fails landlord]] and to my surprise and pleasure has [[User: Gryllida]] come to the rescue and start a  story. However this has now run into the usual difficulty: obtaining a second source (the CBC has at least four articles published in connection, anf the {{w | Ottawa Citizen}} has included this topic with some other tidbits, obviously trying to come up with a new angle), and not enough wikinews participants are interested or even aware. Of course this story will soon be doomed to staleness. I am starting to wonder if this type of story is not of interest to this community?[[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 15:38, 26 October 2017 (UTC) &lt;small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/small&gt;
:I took a look and I think I see the problem: The way the article's written, it looks like you're saying &quot;An Ottawa landlord kicked a guy out for being a slob.&quot; Eh.  That's not ''news'' news but we can do an article on things like that once in the while.  But I checked the sources and the real story seems to be &quot;The Salvation Army promised a landlord that if he let a homeless guy stay in one of his units, they'd make sure he kept it clean and THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT HAPPENED!&quot; The issue is that the SA didn't keep their promises (OR the landlord is lying, ooooooo!)  It's got a good chunk of intrigue ''and'' it ties into a bigger social issue--Canada's homeless. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:35, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
::{{ping|Ottawahitech}} When I need another source, I find a rare word in the story and run a search for that. &quot;Nitin Mehra&quot; got me some results, but they don't seem to be independent.  Ottawa Citizen sounds like it would be a good source.  Is it not available online or something? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:57, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
:::: You have done wonders with this story, thank you so much. I am still crossing my fingers that different sources will turn up tomorrow. The CBC obviously threw a lot of resources into this story, maybe others just don't think they can compete? Anyway I am off for now. 02:03, 27 October 2017 (UTC) &lt;small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/small&gt;
:::::Well it is very small and very local, and it criticizes a charitable organization.  I can see why it wouldn't be most news outlets' first pick.  I hope you're right but we should prepare ourselves to be satisfied with a job well done and no more.
:::::Thank you very much for your kind words.  I kind of needed that today. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:17, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::: Well, you desrerve much more in my insignificant opinion. You are the main reason I am still sticking around wikinews. I admire your tenacity, continuing to plug in day after day, dealing so eloquently with ( sometimes unjustified imio)) rejection. I hope I am not the only one around who has noticed how much you do around wiki-news, and that your behavior encourages other good faith editors to persist.
:::::: As far as a small local story - I tried to address this on the [[Talk: Rental unit overrun by maggots, mould and feces after city program fails landlord  #Apopka Voice source| talkpage of the article]] [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 12:58, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

== Puerto Rico power company cancels $300 million Whitefish contract ==

I thought you succeeded in getting the previous version of this story (American citizenship of Puerto Ricans IIRC?) published. Too bad I really liked the original which I guess is still hidden in one of the revisions. 

Anyway, just wanted to alert you to the fact that the date of the article says Oct 30 and is reffered to as today in the lede , while the sources are dated Oct 29. Yes, I know first hand now how difficult it is to change direction in an existing article, sigh... Another good story imo BTW. Cheers,  [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 03:45, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
:I did copy one paragraph from another, previous article, the paragraph describing what kind of Americans Puerto Ricans are, because unfortunately even a lot of Americans don't know.  But that's just background.  I wrote the rest of the article from scratch.
:The date issue that you mentioned happens all the time isn't really a problem.  It was still October 29 where I am when I was writing it.  Things like this get ironed out in and around review.  It's possible that the reviewers won't be able to article until after I've had to update it for other reasons.  If it's bothering you, though, go ahead and change the date.  You won't be stepping on anyone's toes. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:02, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

== Oops ==

Sorry about that.  I'd moved the article, apparently while you were writing a comment on the talk page.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:52, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
:No problem.  I didn't even notice.
:(sigh) It's a one-word issue with a title.  Molehills shouldn't become mountains, but I'm not sure what else I can do about this short of asking Acagastya to just stay away from me for a couple of months. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:57, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
:: I realize you didn't notice; that's why I apologized.  I should have left a redirect behind when I moved the article, which would I think have caused an edit conflict when you tried to save your edit, but because I didn't, we now have two divergent evolutions of the talk page under different names. &lt;p&gt; I noticed you were getting cross with acagastya about the matter; evidently acagastya's way of expressing xyrself has grated with you.  Tbh, though, it's not that small an issue.  Whatever you may think of xyr form of expression (I too have gotten tangled up in how I put things myself), xe is correct that there is a problem with the word, and that you should be striving to avoid that sort of difficulty.  It's also true the article would have been much better off if the problem had been dealt with before I attempted to review it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:28, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
:::The problem is not that Acagastya thinks there's a problem with the word &quot;uncensored.&quot; The problem is that Acagastya used it as an excuse to give a rant and accuse me of a not doing a bunch of things that aren't really my job.  It feels like he had a bad day at school and felt like taking a slug at someone, and I'm not okay with it being me.  If a constructive comment is indistinguishable from a rant, then I can't use that comment without tacitly consenting to being a punching bag, and I'm not okay with that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:31, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
:::: I don’t know how to dumb it down further than this: are we cent percent sure the report is not censored, or is it someone else saying it is not censored? You would not have checked the link I had posted on the talk page, but when NSA could get a “back door” to encryption algorithm for US$ 10 million, how can we be so sure they are not lying. If tomorrow, it turns out to be that they actually mingled with the report, and the facts, think how embarrassing it would be for Wikinews. Attribute, give credit and do not opinionate the article. It sounds simple. Let’s see if you do this. Here is the difference. I have told you before. Pi zero has said this before. But you end up doing it. If you do not think it is wrong, it is possible you did not understand the underlying problem yet. Maybe I am expecting too much. But you know, I have noticed no matter how bad my day is, I don’t end up reflecting opinions until and unless I have a serious sleep backlog. I am not sure how it works for you.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Helvetica; color:rgb(153, 68, 2);&quot;&gt;acagastya&lt;/span&gt;]] PING ME! 01:26, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
::::::I did check the link you posted.
::::::Acagastya, none of this is the issue.
::::::The issue is that when you claim that a given word, &quot;uncensored&quot; or anything else, is unjustified by the source material, ''but you don't read the source material first'' OR after I ask you to, it means I can't and shouldn't trust your judgement.  It looks like you just feel like slapping me in the face because you're getting off on it.  When you claim the word is unjustified and don't read the source material ''and'' go on a rant about how I'm wasting your time and making more work for you (and I'm not), it means you just feel like ranting at someone.  I'm not your punching bag.  I'm not your employee.  I'm not your student.  I'm not your little brother.  I'm not your mom.  I'm not your dog.  I'm not okay with it.
::::::The issue is that when you rant at me to do something ''that you could easily do yourself'' it looks like you care more about ranting than about producing a good article.  Don't ask me to walk half a mile to come pick up a piece of litter that's next to your shoe.  You're already there and I'm not the janitor. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:35, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

== 'Paradise Papers' reveal tax shelters for companies, politicians, royalty ==

I am not sure Pi zero will publish your   [['Paradise Papers' reveal tax shelters for companies, politicians, royalty]] story, so I will pretend your talkpage is the public comments section:

I don’t believe these 387 reporters are serving the public good by whipping up hysteria about rich people gaming the system. This is not a calm, rational discussion meant to inform. It is more of a lynch mob attacking ''the rich''.

Why am I saying this?

Well, first, there is the implication that the reason people invest globally is that they are thereby cheating on paying taxes. Take the Queen of England,  who admitted publicly to investing ''overseas'', but she also says she pays the taxes due.

Second, in the United States and in Canada (possibly in other countries too, don’t know?) Corporate income tax is different than personal income tax. The lumping of those two groups together, is again whipping up hysteria of massive tax evasion. 

As far as personal income tax is concerned, I really don’t understand this hysteria. If individuals, rich or less rich, do not pay their taxes, their income tax should be audited, and if they didn't pay they should be punished. Why attack all rich people with the assumption that because they invest in other countries, they are automatically corrupt?

As an aside, the United States has a almost-unique (other than Eritrea) personal tax system that tries to collect taxes from people who do not reside in the United States. For example Canadians (and other nationalities) who happened to be born in the United States, but have had no other connection to America, are expected by the IRS to file an American tax return every year. That means those unlucky Canadians must file and pay taxes to both Canada and the United States (I won’t bore you with the details of foreign tax credits). This affects every Canadian &quot;US-person&quot; , rich, not so rich and those in abject poverty.

On  top of this, these ordinary citizens  are lumbered with much more complex filing requirements due to {{ w | FATCA |  FATCA legislation}} introduced during the Obama years, not to talk about the fact that the US arm-wrestled other countries to pick up the tab for implementing this legislation.

Am I making sense? If so I will continue when I get a chance. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 19:22, 8 November 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt; Please ping me &lt;/Small&gt;
: I love a good rant!  You go ahead!  But on a Wikinews note, if you can find an expert saying that this is blown out of proportion, that would make a good addition to the article.  Try searching for &quot;moral panic.&quot;
:There's another word for &quot;Canadians born in the U.S.&quot; It's &quot;Americans.&quot; Anyone born on U.S. soil is legally a U.S. citizen.  People who don't want to pay U.S. taxes can move abroad (or stay in Canada) and repudiate their citizenship.  Only if the IRS thinks the only reason a person repudiated was to avoid taxes do they continue to expect payment, and then only for a set number of years.
:Someone born with dual Canadian-American citizenship but grew up in Canada would have all the years of their childhood to let that clock run out.  But maybe they or their parents thought that the legal right to move to New York and stay as long as you want was worth it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:23, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
::So yeah, they can go, &quot;I am no nephew of yours, Uncle Sam!  I am but your northern neighbor dude, Bob of Manitoba.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:29, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
:::I also think the article won't be published because it's almost stale. Sad because it's the first article I felt I contributed on... But there will be others. I see Ottawahitech's point that much of the issue is whipped up hysteria. An argument to the contrary is that the money not being taxed is a huge part of the GDP of some countries, which shifts the tax burden onto people and companies who can afford it less. From the ICIJ source, &quot;They do so at the expense of the many – shifting the burden of taxation to middle-income taxpayers and giving multinational corporations an advantage over smaller competitors. Where it hurts most is in nations struggling to provide the basics for their populations.&quot; That's a huge issue, really. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 01:21, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
::::Perfectly good articles aging out is just nature of the beast here on Wikinews, at least when the review team is so small.  It's like how, on Wikipedia, other people ''will'' come in and change your work.  It's just how the project works and there's nothing personal about it.  If this one ages out, it's reasonably possible that some new development will allow us to retread this one and get it up there in some form.  That way, Wikinews' archive will show that it covered this great event of 2017.  Let's say that next week, Appleby issues another statement about this whole mess.  An article on ''that'' would need a different lead but could use most of the same background information.  Write a new title, a new lede and update the rest where necessary and boom.  We would use the same article page, and all the old versions would be preserved in the page history.
::::I'd have to agree on your other point.  The whole thing that makes the Paradise Papers news is not that rich people and corporations dodge their taxes.  We always knew ''that''.  It's that they're doing it a ''lot'' more than we thought they were.  It's like knowing that a certain number of people convicted of crimes were actually innocent and you imagine it's about 0.5%.  So the system isn't perfect.  Oh well.  But what if you suddenly find out it's actually 40% of all convicts who are really innocent?  That means the system isn't just imperfect; it has a serious problem and needs to be fixed ''right now''. 01:31, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
::::: I'll suppress my reflex to go on a rant about my plan to &lt;s&gt;take over the world&lt;/s&gt; overhaul the tool infrastructure of Wikinews, but I note that, by my understanding of the project's dynamic equation, the most critical figure is not the size of the review team, but how many active reporters can be supported by a given amount of review effort.  The review team comes ''from'' the pool of active reporters, but not every reporter is suited to become a reviewer, and even if they are suited for it, they will typically require quite a lot of ''experience'' before they're actually ready to review, experience that can't happen unless articles get reviewed &amp;mdash; so that the next generation of reviewers is a small fraction of the current generation of reporters.  Basically, if an average reviewer lasts N years and supports M reporters, it had better take on average less than N*M reporter-years to generate one reviewer.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:32, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
:::::::That's interesting.  I feel like we're talking about whether the unit of evolution is the gene, the individual or the population.
:::::::Right now, the reviewer/reporter ratio is low (and we should remember that reviewers are also reporters, as Acagastya demonstrates).  What that means for the process is that the reporter should assume that the article is going to sit and wait in the review hopper for a non-negligible period.  That means that it's worth it to get the draft done right away, get it from the development hopper to the review hopper ASAP so as not to miss any reviewer with time on their hands who might flit by.  That means that the draft should go into review even if it isn't perfect and polished but rather when it's merely ''presentable''.  There may be time for polishing later and there may not be time for review now. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:56, 9 November 2017 (UTC) If the ratio were higher and the reporter could assume that it would be reviewed either right away or might-as-well-be-right-away, then it would be worth it to spend that extra time in the development hopper, especially if that drew contributions from other sets of eyes (though in practice, other editors are going to work on it no matter which pile it's in). [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:58, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
::::::Darkfrog24, thank you for your explanation about reworking the article. I've been lurking on Wikinews for quite a while, reading articles and following them through review to see what's being changed and why and to understand the process. It's what I do; I don't like making huge mistakes and I like to have a sense of how things work before I try my hand at them. 
::::::The number of reporters a reviewer can support and the reviewer/reporter ratio are both describing the same thing. I don't know whether more reviewers are needed or whether the current number can support the number of reporters. Obviously over time new reviewers will be needed as reviewers &lt;s&gt;burn out&lt;/s&gt; drift away and (hopefully!) as more reporters arrive. But adding new reporters means more work for reviewers, possibly forcing them to attempt to support too many reporters, which in turn slows down reviewing, which in turn means reporters don't gain the necessary experience to review quickly enough. 
::::::In the meantime, I guess it makes sense to put articles into the review hopper once they're developed even though they're being tweaked. What I don't know is whether a reviewer might choose to not review an article that is being tweaked. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 03:37, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
:::::::But there was such a natural experiment!  If you want to see a case of a much MUCH higher reporter to reviewer ratio, we get a class full of Australian journalism students blowing through here every so often.  There have been more than twenty stories in the hopper all at once.  You could just ask Pi zero and Bloodredsandman I wanna say how they dealt with it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:57, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
::::::::{{ping|Ca2james}} A few thoughts.
::::::::* Some years ago we had many more active reviewers &amp;mdash; and articles ''still'' sometimes went stale waiting for review.  How frequently it happens depends in part, presumably, on how much upward pressure there is on our output level; but my sense is that there's a really vast pool of latent demand for review out there, so I think we can never eliminate this effect entirely.
::::::::* Just to connect the dots, my intent is to bring tooling within the purview of the wiki community (so it grows tools much as it grows content), and use those tools to massively increase reviewer productivity; a reviewer ought to be able to review a moderate-sized article by a veteran Wikinewsie in half an hour (and I'd love to eventually get that down to 15 minutes).  So the technology for growing tools becomes the means for increasing the reporter/reviewer ratio.
::::::::* There can sometimes be a problem with tweaking an article after it goes on the review queue.  As a reviewer I've been known to eye an article, trying to brace myself to attempt a review, then it gets edited and I think, I'd better leave it alone for a while until it becomes stable again, rather than risk trying to review an article that's halfway through a change.  A possible preventative (just a suggestion) is to put {{tl|editing}} at the top of the article while working on it, perhaps with an edit summary indicating how much you expect to do.
:::::::: --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:55, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

::@{{PAGENAME}}, re: ''if you can find an expert saying that this is blown out of proportion''...: 
::: To be honest if I could find an expert who can attack the myth (IMIO) surrounding properties of  [[Japanese Knotweed discovered on Google's Dublin docklands headquarters|Japanese Knotweed]], I would be a hero to many, I believe.  {{ w | Japanese Knotweed}} was brought to my attention years ago by a terrified friend. I have since seen it growing in many places, without the terrifying effects attributed to it. I may be wrong, but I believe this is one of the  most damaging myths circulating on the web (I guess I should check Snopes about it, if I ever get a-round-tuit). [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 20:02, 9 November 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/Small&gt;

{{od}}{{ping|Pi zero}} thank you for your thoughts. Those tools sound great! Reducing reviewing time would definitely help reviewers support more reporters. Of course developing tools takes precious time and energy away from reviewing making it difficult to do. Thank you also for the tip regarding the editing template. I expect this article won't be the last I contribute to here so this tip will come in handy.

Darkfrog24, the Australian students would have put quite a load on the system! In this situation I'm not sure how much energy the reviewer would expend on showing the student how things work since the students aren't committed to becoming Wikinewsies. Or were you thinking of another experiment? [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 05:56, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Now I know why the paucity of discussion at the [[Wikinews:Water_cooler|wikinews-water-coolers]]: Looks like Darkfrog’s is the place to be :-) [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 06:27, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24: Re your message at [[Talk:'Paradise Papers' reveal tax shelters for companies, politicians, royalty#Updates]]: Sorry, can't get myself in the mood to talk shop today. I am watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyddc4KxW08. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 23:54, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Hey, I was looking for something else , but happened to net this from google: http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/paradise-papers-another-cheap-shot-at-the-wealthy which refers to our  English cousin wikipedia and how they treat news. Thought you may be interested? [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 01:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/Small&gt;}}
:Yeah, it doesn't describe an event, so it couldn't be used to update the article...
:The deal is that, if this guy is an expert at something other than journalism, if he's a professor of financial law at a university, for example, then we can quote the editorial and attribute the words to him.  Otherwise, it's just a perspective read. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:07, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
 
:: &lt;s&gt;Actually I am starting to formulate in my head this half-baked idea: How about you write an article about the Paradise papers from the +perspective and others can help me, I hope, write an article from the -perspective. That way wikinews can maintain the unbiased reputation without faking it. Actually I am not sure I can take this challenge on right now, but thought I would run the idea by you, just to  see how you and others reading this feel about this aproach. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 20:55, 15 November 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/Small&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
  
[http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/jack-mintz-you-can-stop-blaming-the-rich-since-youre-a-tax-avoider-too You can stop blaming the rich, since you're a tax avoider, too] is fresh! &quot;Excerpted and edited from  a speech by Jack M. Mintz, President’s Fellow at the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy, presented to Symposium 2017, held in Toronto on Nov. 14, 2017.&quot;

Article opening:&quot;We have been hearing a lot about taxes these days: U.S. tax reform, the Paradise Papers and tax avoidance by the rich…&quot; Hope you can use this, I'd love to see this published. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 02:24, 16 November 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/Small&gt;

*I was reading about this lawyer in BC who claims that the firm’s trust account was emptied, and $7.5 million laundered through a casino and disappeared in China (pbably a stale story, but I couldn’t be bothered to check for sure). In any event it reminded me of [['Paradise Papers' reveal tax shelters for companies, politicians, royalty]] and I came here to see what its status was.

:I am glad I did because otherwise I would have found out that you (Darkfrog24) were blocked from editing wikipedia, let alone unblocked (congrats btw). I guess I will have to rush over there to find out what happened.  I hope this does not mean you will have less time to  work on Paradise? &lt;Small&gt; one of your admirers &lt;/small&gt;[[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 21:30, 6 December 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt; Please ping me &lt;/Small&gt;
::Thanks, Ottawa.  Paradise Papers has been on the back burner for reasons that have nothing to do with my block status on the 'pedia.
::Heh, my plan was for my first act to be to write an article on Bhupathy's purple frog, but someone beat me to it! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:34, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

== Writers and reviewers ==

I owe you a good post on the big picture of how the learning curve of writers learning to contribute at Wikinews relates to the reviewer-to-writer ratio (which I mentioned above).  I've had in mind to write such a thing for several months, or so.  Like so many things, I've had trouble scraping up the time; just leaving this note as a sort of IOU/general reminder.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 12:55, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
:I realize you probably didn't mean it literally, but you do not owe anyone that.  It's extra.
:Also, no need to direct it at me specifically.  An essay might be the most appropriate forum. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:07, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
:: An essay might eventually build on the things I say in such a post, but working out the ideas is more likely to happen in individual posts addressing specific situations.  (An example springs to mind:  after doing thousands of reviews &amp;mdash;I'm pretty sure that's an [[:Category:Peer reviewed/Passed/Pi zero|accurate figure]]&amp;mdash; I found I'd developed a large repertory of comments that I'd polished smooth, and I took all of them and put them together in one place, producing [[WN:PILLARS]] after filling in only a few remaining gaps in the whole.  But I couldn't have produced the whole if I'd tried, cold, even though I'd had in mind particularly to provide something compact that could be a target for shortcut &quot;&amp;lt;project&amp;gt;:PILLARS&quot;.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:01, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
::: I might add, explaining this stuff isn't a purely selfless act.  Wikipedia is set up as a vast free-for-all of users who appear and disappear at any given point in the project, and need to be able to work instantly with whoever they happen to encounter there, whom they may never have met before nor meet again.  There should be practically no learning curve for getting along with others, while technical stuff can be allowed to take arbitrarily longer.  Individual users end up being treated as interchangeable parts (with various dehumanizing and devaluing effects that come with that, alas).  Wikinews is different right down the line.  We don't have time for free-for-alls.  We're likely to run into the same users, ''especially'' when we're this small but I suspect it's in the nature of news even if we succeed in scaling up vastly.  People need to know the technical stuff immediately, and the social stuff is necessarily allowed to take longer.  Not that the social aspect isn't important; quite the contrary, Wikipedia's AFG is like training wheels for teamwork, and Wikinews social interaction is advanced, scary teamwork.  Individual users are really human individuals, they have individual accumulated reputations that matter to day-to-day operation of the project, rather than interchangeable parts.  While we operate with a great deal of autonomy we ''are'' a team (you've heard the expression &quot;news team&quot;?  well...), and are all collectively affected by what individuals do and how particular combinations of individuals interact.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:49, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
:::: (Btw, a passing observation re AGF as training wheels:  I once used training wheels on a bike.  They didn't work for any purpose that I could see; they made it impossible to do anything with the bike and prevented actually learning how to ride it.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:42, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

== Choice of reviewers ==

I point out, it is well-established on en.wn that writers don't get to choose who reviews their article.  If you think about it, since review enforces project standards, it would be untenable to allow a writer to decide who will review their article.  My own advice (though I realize you may not like to hear it) is to take advantage of the opportunity to study feedback on your article from a different reviewer than usual.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:If you're referring to Acagastya (and the &quot;if&quot; is because it's not unusual for Acagastya to review one of my articles, so it would make more sense for you to mean someone else), then no.  Acagastya is not supposed to be giving me feedback.  Acagastya is supposed to be leaving me alone.  It would be countereffective for me to go looking for interactions with him.
:More generally, Acagastya's decisions over the past few months have left me with a low opinion of his judgement.  His credibility isn't good.  You say that Wikinews is based on reputation, well, the person who says things like &quot;they won't know which White House you mean&quot; in an article explicitly about the U.S. but becomes hostile when told that &quot;Ganga&quot;/&quot;Ganges&quot; needs clarification has to be taken with a lot of salt.  I should probably stop before this devolves into speculation about Acagastya's mindset, which, you've commented, tends to just make things worse.  Anywho, if you meant someone else, let me know. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:00, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:: Have I underestimated how often acagastya reviews your articles?  As may be; that's a peripheral trivium to the main issues here, really. &lt;p&gt; I see you getting yourself into deeper and deeper difficulties through misreading of acagastya.  I fear I'll give offence by saying this clumsily (which I wouldn't care about if it only meant you getting mad at me, but it's counterproductive if it prevents the message from getting across); but leaving things you just said unchallenged seems even worse, so, here goes.
::* You moved along the Wikinews learning curve up to a point and then stopped, and it seems pretty clear you are't aware of how much you've stopped short of.  Acagastya didn't stop, but has become deeply knowledgeable about the project, achieving reviewer status.  When I disagree with acagastya, I know better than to think it's due to acagastya not grasping the fundamentals.  I see you &amp;mdash;frankly&amp;mdash; routinely rejecting sound advice from acagastya, to the detriment of your understanding, and to the detriment of the project.
::* I'm having trouble figuring, from your above comment, whether you could really believe that reviewing an article could possibly ''not'' involve intensive feedback to the article's author.
:: --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:12, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Acagastya can write whatever he wants but don't expect me to read it for a while.  I've asked for some space and some cool-down time and I don't think that's in any way unreasonable.  My I'm-angry-at-him tank is full and needs time to drain.  The point of the review is to give readers a good article, and nothing is getting in the way of that.
:::Regarding &quot;sound advice,&quot; if a good point is embedded in a rude and degrading comment, then by acting on it I would be encouraging Acagastya to continue to treat me like an emotional punching bag, and I'm not up for that.  What really bothers me about that last article is if I say &quot;Take a look at the source material and tell me if you still think the title I chose is unjustified,&quot; and the reviewer says, &quot;NO!!&quot; well, that makes me feel like the reviewer ''doesn't actually care'' about the article and is just making a scene because he gets off on giving people orders.  Sure, maybe something else is going on in Acagastya's head, but I'm angry and kind of grossed out and I need those feelings to dissipate before I take another look at him.
:::Also&amp;mdash;and I am asking your WikiN opinion on this&amp;mdash;do ''you'' see anything objectionable in the phrase &quot;both major United States political parties&quot; in the Paradise Papers article?[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=%27Paradise_Papers%27_reveal_tax_shelters_for_companies,_politicians,_royalty&amp;diff=4362649&amp;oldid=4362648]  If I'd written &quot;Democrats and Republicans,&quot; sure ''that'' might have been too U.S.-centric because more than one country has a party called &quot;Republican.&quot; That's why I chose something else. (The word &quot;both&quot; also tells the reader how many there are.) As far as I can tell, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that phrase.  Acagastya's calling me closed-minded over ''this'' one makes me feel that Acagastya is not just looking for things to complain about but willing to invent them because he's getting off on ranting.  Again, gross.
:::It looks as though Acagastya might be interested in changing his behavior, in which case his efforts will be best received if I look at them with clear eyes.  That'll be in a couple weeks.
::There's another matter.  I'm quite concerned that Acagastya has flat-out refused to respect my wishes, and I don't mean by just doing his regular job as a reviewer and Wikinewsie. He has been going out of his way to make ''more'' contact with me than he did before I asked him to leave me alone, pinging me in his response to someone else's question and posting on this talk page even though I've repeatedly asked him to stop.  That's not good. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:18, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
:::If you think answering my question &quot;Do you see anything wrong with 'both major U.S. political parties' in the Paradise Papers article&quot; would just provoke Acagastya, then don't answer it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:18, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

::::: I'll have to try to clear some time/attention to study your specific question properly. &lt;p&gt; When you say &quot;The point of the review is to give readers a good article&quot;, I'd have to say, no, that's not the point.  My perception is that you're talking about making improvements to the article, which is the way Wikipedian tradition conceptualizes a second editor working on an article written by a first editor.  Making improvements to the article, in this sense, ought usually to be a consequence of the review process, but it's not the point; that would be leaving out some really hugely important aspects of the situation.  I don't have a lot of practice at articulating this part of the big picture; it doesn't come up much in review comments; but, a couple of considerations, at least to start with.  If a veteran Wikinewsie writes an article and submits it for review, and a reviewer does a full review and, after great striving, publishes it with not a single change from the submitted version, the article has been utterly transformed, from what amounts to a blog post into a news article.  And then there's feedback to the reporter, which is a massive and crucial aspect of review.  Notice that both of those things are clearly distinct from visible improvements to the quality of the actual product that gets delivered to readers in the particular case.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 17:00, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
::::::''I'll have to try to clear some time/attention to study your specific question properly. '' Thanks, I appreciate it.  And feel free to skip for any reason.  You don't owe me this.
::::::''making improvements to the article, which is the way Wikipedian tradition conceptualizes a second editor working on an article written by a first editor. '' No that is not what I mean when I say &quot;Wikinews review.&quot;
::::::''If a veteran Wikinewsie writes an article and submits it for review, and a reviewer does a full review and, after great striving, publishes it with not a single change from the submitted version, the article has been utterly transformed, from what amounts to a blog post into a news article. '' Yes that is what I mean when I say &quot;Wikinews review.&quot; The reader gets a good article&amp;mdash;one that has been checked for facts and legal issues and endorsed by more than one set of eyes.
::::::Over the past week, I have made a conscious effort to avoid putting you in the middle of this matter between Acagastya and me.  It seems you have placed yourself there anyway, by your own decision.  I'm going to treat you accordingly.  Give me a heads up if you need to leave the middle.  It's not a fun place to be. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:52, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
::::::: Appreciated.  But, really, Wikinews is a very small place, and at least within the realm of news production proper, nobody can do anything alone; so the furthest I could get from the middle would not be too very far.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:26, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
::::::::It's worth the effort to at least to try not to make people feel uncomfortable. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:50, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

== Cyclone Ophelia batters Spain, Portugal, Ireland, the UK, and Norway ==

This article which you worked on with {{Ping|EzekielT}} has been declared Abandoned and may soon be deleted, unless it is userified. I see no reason why this article should be deleted together with the comments on the [[Talk: Cyclone Ophelia batters Spain, Portugal, Ireland, the UK, and Norway|talk-page]], but this in your hands. Just to let you know. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 01:19, 15 November 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/Small&gt;
:Articles getting deleted is just the nature of the beast here on Wikinews.  I save the userspace for the articles of which I am particularly fond or for which I have future plans.  I expect the article I did on a newly discovered purple frog will, with some restructuring, make a great Wikipedia article someday.  Heck, if someone's beaten me to it it might be a great Wikipedia article right now. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:48, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

== Limited interaction: November 2017 ==

I'm going to be limiting my involvement with Project Wiki for at least the next couple of days.   This was a pre-scheduled event arranged months ago that has nothing directly to do with anything that did or did not happen here.  I expect to check in around once per day, which may include posting some drafts.  Wish me luck! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
:Good luck! [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 01:29, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
:: {{wikt|Qapla'}}. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:56, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Thank you.  When it is done, we shall all share a barrel of bloodwine! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:05, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Ugh.  My thing is taking a lot longer than I thought it was going to. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:48, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
::::Things do that.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:06, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::Does bloodwine improve with age or is that just puny Earth vintages? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:18, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::: Bloodwine is fermented, so presumably would improve with age up to a point as other such beverages do.  (The oldest human alcoholic beverage, so I hear, is mead, which is fermented from honey, predating human agriculture.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:31, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

== Older Adults' Forgetfulness Tied To Faulty Brain Rhythms In Sleep ==

Hi {{PAGENAME}} [[Older Adults' Forgetfulness Tied To Faulty Brain Rhythms In Sleep|is this]] something of interest to you? [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 19:35, 18 December 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/Small&gt;
:Honestly, not really.  This is a legit scientific discovery but it's also kind of obvious. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:38, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

== [[Guatemalan president announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem]] ==

Was about to work on this one -- but since I did not ''start'', I might not have disqualified myself to review it.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:32, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
:I understand that's how it works yes.  I see that article as a bit bare-bones, but better simple and on time than elaborate and timed out. (Elaborate and on time being best of all, of course.) [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:46, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
::Well, I was shocked to see the length maybe because I was about to &quot;marry the article&quot; when my bot told me &quot;Darkfrog24 has created Gua...&quot; and I was like, &quot;Oh dear, I was about to start writing again, but I lost the chance!&quot; and then I saw the time, and I was the only active reviewer -- so best &quot;break the engagement&quot; with the article. You can make substantial changes to the article, I hope you do.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:59, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
:::Was wondering if you could set us the Rss/Atom feed for science related news?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:59, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
::::I don't know much about RSS feeds, and this is the first I've ever heard of Atom feeds.  I just click into Eurekalert when I want something first-cut. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:21, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

== Science news and bots ==

{{ping|Acagastya}}
''[Here Darkfrog copypasted the email sent by Acagasta in which, among other things, Acagastya asks Darkfrog to set up a feed/bot for science news and suggests responding by talk.]'' (email from Acagastya to Darkfrog)
:Short answer, because I don't know how to set up a feed.  Longer answer, there are ''hundreds'' of professional science publications, and they tend to be highly specialized. There's one that only does new chemistry technology.  There's one that only does frogs.  There's one that only does underwater basket weaving, and so on.  The kind of news story that would of interest to the general audience whom we serve could appear first in any one of them.  There are two really big ones, ''Science'' in the U.S. and ''Nature'' in England, that are considered the biggest and best and cover any kind of science, but for the most part it's decentralized.  Eurekalert is so useful to me because it covers many fields and provides the plain-English press releases written or at least approved by the research teams. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:40, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
::It would not be a good idea to flood one’s inbox with hundreds of science news emails. But a channel seems to be a good idea. I have the bot configured in such a way that it pings me on Telegram, notifies me about breaking news (I used RSS for some twenty news websites). I also have for Wikinews Recent Changes…but it is because I use Telegram a lot. (Not important, but I set up Garfield comics to be emailed to me each day) Few alternatives I can think of: Feedly (the best one), Twitter PM, Facebook PM, iOS reading list, line IM, Trello card. Compile a list of websites, and I would do it. (I am not sure if you use those services) but there is no harm trying.

:: Just a side note, that email was not licensed under CC BY-2.5, or a compatible license, and accounts for copyvio.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 07:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:::I'm sure you'll find that copypasting your email into talk amounts to fair use. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:59, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:::: Not really. &quot;You must have written your work yourself or copied it from a compatibly licensed resource or public domain resource.&quot; -- fair use is not for text. It is for other forms of media. Else what is the reason to have a CC/free licenses. [Sorry, kind of busy reviewing an article...]&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 13:01, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::Here's the U.S. Copyright Office's [https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html webpage on fair use].  Don't worry.  We're in the clear. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:06, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::Do you mean instead that you just don't ''want'' me to copypaste your emails? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:06, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::: In my experience, the wikimedia sisterhood extended-community as a whole treats emails and IRC discussions as non-public communications (by default), and it's at-least a breach of etiquette to publicize detailed contents thereof without permission.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:53, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::::My content is not governed by the US federal court. And project's TnC determines what is permitted, and what is not -- the ethics that kicks in is another case [reminds me of public logging issue with the IRC]&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:13, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Let's dial this back a little bit.  No it's not ''unethical'' for me to copypaste an email that contains no private information into talk, especially considering that's one of the ways of contacting you that you requested and considering that I can't reply by email without disclosing my own contact information. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:24, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
{{outdent}} The main point of the email was to set up some medium to get notifications for the news articles, and copyright is not the primary focus -- but we can not ignore it. It is not correct to copy someone else's work and submit it even though there is a note about it above the Save changes button. As my email says, you can ping me on talk page, but that does not mean the content can be freely used with the license Wikinews uses. I did not say, paste my email on the talk.
&quot;considering that I can't reply by email without disclosing my own contact information&quot; -- first of all, the only information that is disclosed is the sender's username, and gender [if the sender has specified]. Secondly, you sent me an email few weeks ago.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:36, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:I didn't &quot;copy and submit&quot; your work.  I moved a conversation.  And yes, replying to you would have given you my email address.  This is getting out of hand. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:39, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:: In this sort of situation I could easily imagine myself addressing the concern on-wiki, but I would carefully ''not'' quote the exact contents of the private communication.  That's a line I've walked many times.  (Note, so far I'm only addressing the question of what-ought-to-be-done, not questions of what engages copyright versus ethics versus etiquette.) &lt;p&gt; Darkfrog24, would you be willing for me to excise the direct quotation from this page and hide it in the revision log?  That would defuse the immediate problem.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:06, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
:::Done, but it's not good not to have the details of the request on record. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:48, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

== [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/guatemala-jerusalem-embassy-move-final-171230075119990.html Guatemala says Jerusalem embassy move is final] ==

You want to work on the update story?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:15, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
:I've got a family event today, but I'll see if I can check in.  If you mean you don't want to get swooped and work on it yourself, fear not! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:36, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
::Have other articles that I am stalling since there isn't enough coverage for &quot;Egypt sentences ex-President Mursi, 19 others to three years in jail&quot;. There is Israel filing to pull out of UNESCO, but that is not what I am currently eyeing.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:43, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
:::It's a holiday and I'm a bit busy. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:28, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

== This photo ==

I don’t know if you have written Economy and business articles, but do you recognise the [https://twitter.com/WhatTheFFacts/status/950269610661728257?s=17 photo]?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 10:04, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:&quot;A man skipped work for six years and was still getting paid&quot;?  No, I haven't seen it before. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:17, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
::[[Apple, Inc. confirms acquisition of Shazam]] see the photo.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks.  That six-year guy was amusing but I was a bit confused about why you would mention it.  No I haven't see the Un Poco Loco screenshot picture before.  The song itself is quite charming, however. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:48, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:::: the photo used in the infobox, not the screenshot.&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/223.237.253.44|223.237.253.44]] ([[User talk:223.237.253.44|talk]]) 12:54, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:::::With the coins and paper bills?  I don't really remember.  It looks familiar, so I've probably seen it before.  Is something wrong?  If it's on Wikimedia Commons then anyone may use it for any reason, and that includes six-year-still-paid guy. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:56, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

== Regarding your articles about the first word countries ==

There was a time when I complained about it, but your articles in the category Crime and law UNION (mathematical one) Politics and conflicts actually made me enjoy CIPE (Constitution of India and Professional Ethics) class. And it is something majority of the students dislike it. I was (and expect to be ) active in the class. You have done a good job. (And I hope you would write many good articles). After today’s class, I thought “thanks to Darkfrog24’s articles, I knew so many things that I would survive the course”. You deserve a barnstar. (But I couldn’t find one for Crime and law, so…) [[File:Current Events Barnstar Hires.png|left|thumb]]&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 10:28, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:Thank you, Acagastya.  That is very nice of you and I am glad you did well in your class. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:18, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
{{clear}}
== Net neutrality ==

Sadly, things got away from me today and I didn't get to the article until there was much less time left on the clock than the review needed.  (A potential weakness, I suppose, of the technique of repeatedly refocusing such an article is that the article gets longer and longer, which is good for article quality but bad for ease of review:  the standard technique is to start by publishing a ''small'' article, and then reuse previous material as one publishes later articles so that each article only requires a relatively small amount of entirely new material to be vetted while the articles get more and more comprehensive.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:20, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
:Yes, I was expecting it would age out again.  It'll come around on the guitar.  I was careful to remove all content and sources from the previous, now irrelevant retread. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

== The scammers gaming India's overcrowded job market ==

Not sure how I ended up on this interesting article. I think it was when I clicked on one of your sources? (see: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jan/02/the-scammers-gaming-indias-overcrowded-job-market). Cheers, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 19:28, 13 January 2018 (UTC) &lt;small&gt;Please ping me&lt;/small&gt;
:{{ping|Ottawahitech}} I use the Guardian a lot but I don't remember seeing this specific article before. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

== SpaceX launch ==

Please write this up; that was so much fun to watch. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 21:29, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
:I've got some stuff to do right now, but if you want to work on it yourself {{ping|Yngvadottir}}, I certainly don't mind. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:58, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
::I don't have the science background, I'm afraid. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 22:10, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
:::Well could you check for typos, then?  I gotta clock back into work. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:24, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Yngvadottir}} Hey, could you add the pictures?  It's so dull right now visually. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:30, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::Done and done. I note that the center rocket was supposed to land on a floating platform. Since I don't have sound, I was unable to tell what had happened with that when the feed cut to talking heads. I'm told by a friend that they lost comms with the drone platform and have sent out a watercraft to determine what happened. You're just saying &quot;elsewhere&quot;; sources presumably will be publishing more on that. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 22:45, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::[http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/latest-spacex-test-flight-delayed-high-wind-52879595 It missed and shrapnel destroyed part of the platform equipment, including possibly the video]. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 01:39, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Yngvadottir}} I need to work on something else right now.  You up to updating the part of the article that deals with this? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:59, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Acagastya may be intending to review the article, and has just asked me to flip the &quot;review&quot; back to &quot;develop&quot; - I'll leave you to decide on that. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 03:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Acagastya likes to do that.  No you do not have to replace &quot;review&quot; with &quot;develop&quot; when you edit the article, but it is polite to put up &quot;editing.&quot; However, you only made one edit and not a series of edits, and technically &quot;editing&quot; is for ''major'' rewrites, so you didn't do anything wrong by just going in and making the update.
::::::::I used to change &quot;develop&quot; to &quot;review&quot; whenever I updated an article for a new day, but when you change it back to &quot;review,&quot; it's bumped to the end of the line.  I had too many articles age out that way, so now I just leave them in the review hopper and use &quot;editing&quot; if I'm going to be doing anything major. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:41, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
If you think I enjoy doing that, wait until you become a reviewer. I learned it before becoming a reviewer because it was one of ther first things I had asked when I started editing. Number of edits does not matter — when an article with review tag is edited hours after it was submitted for review, that causes the problem. (If the duration is just a few seconds to minutes-I will either remove the article from requesting review to develop or inform reviewer off-wiki about it)&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/223.237.210.97|223.237.210.97]] ([[User talk:223.237.210.97|talk]]) 03:58, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

== article suggestion ==

I don't know if Youth STEM Program is same as the scouts programme article you wrote few months ago, but are you interested to write about &quot;Disney Donates $1 Million to Youth STEM Program in Celebration of 'Black Panther'&quot;? Just in case you need some sources:
#[https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/disney-donates-1-million-youth-stem-program-celebration-black-panther/ The Walt Disney Company]
#[http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/26/media/disney-black-panther-donations/index.html CNN]
#[http://abc7chicago.com/education/disney-donates-$1-million-to-youth-stem-programs-in-celebration-of-black-panther/3142281/ ABC]
#[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5438577/Black-Panther-success-leads-Disney-donate-1-million.html Mail Online]
&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:17, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

== Re: [[Satellites show Adelie penguin megacolony in Antarctica's Danger Islands]] ==

Tips:

* Wikinews articles are in past tense. 
* Information that happened prior to the event being reported may be in past perfect or present perfect ('has done', 'had appeared').
* It is required to expose the 'why' in the lede, but background should go to the end. ([[WN:IP|Inverted pyramid]])

Questions that I think would be nice to include:

* What is the total population size of the species?
* What is their normal habitat?
* You can add a map showing their previously thought habitat as well as the new discovery location. ([[:mw:Help:Kartographer|Help:Kartographer]]).

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:18, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
:Please address such comments to the article collaboration page where anyone who wants to work on the article will see them and not to me as an individual. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:26, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
::Copied. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:09, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
:::Appreciated. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:16, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
::::Just to clarify: I personally ''prefer'' to pass these questions to user's talk pages, because they have a better (more timely) notifications system. I don't think the way Echo works is efficient. To think of it, now I realize why: because it does not keep track of which comments I already read and which comments I did not read. (I now filed this as [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T188889 a task]). --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:35, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
More tips:
* Including ''essential'' and ''relevant'' information is required for publication. (Just like one can't speak of a plane crash in '{{W|Domodedovo (town)}}' without specifying that this is a town in Moscow Oblast, Russia, one also can't speak of a new population discovery without mentioning the existing population size. It sounds obscure and unspecific.)
* For a contributor unfamiliar with the background, it may take them more effort (and time) to work out what the answers are.
* Leaving questions to other contributors to answer makes the article development depend on the availability of these contributors, which may also slow it down.
* Incomplete articles may be classified as 'not ready' which may delay publication.
--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:35, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
::Addressing these comments solely to me renders the article dependent on my availability, which may slow it down.  If you think something is important or necessary, feel free to jump in and do it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:51, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
:::You are right, it is both effort from you and from me. Not mine exclusively and not yours exclusively. Updated article talk page. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:48, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Added original reporting questions on the talk page. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:28, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
:Followed up. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:34, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
::Followed up (V3). [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:53, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

== Re: [[Former United States television star Bill Cosby seeks to replace judge in sexual assault trial]] ==

Tips:

* Leading paragraph needs to say the country.
* Writing a story and then leaving it to others to develop instead of continuing to be engaged into its development is a poor practice which results in waste of reviewers time. Repeatedly practicing this may result in your articles being given lower priority in the review queue.

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:27, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
:Gryllida, when I say the article is &quot;presentable,&quot; I mean I consider it fit for the main page, even if it could still be improved upon. The freshness requirements here on Wikinews make it impractical to make a habit of waiting for an even-better version.  No I do not hit &quot;review&quot; on anything half done.  Wikinews is a collaborative project and I don't want anyone to feel discouraged from altering my work, even when it's good enough in its existing form, so I reiterate what is said below the editing window: &quot;If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.&quot;
:I have repeatedly developed articles that were started by other writers, [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Suspects_in_slaying_of_pregnant_North_Dakota_woman_enter_not_guilty_pleas&amp;diff=4342083&amp;oldid=4341872 sometimes with just a title and one source], and I have no problem allowing others to reciprocate. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:46, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Medieval_Amazon_may_have_been_home_to_a_million_more_people,_say_scientists|Replied]] ==

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:37, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

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== Flags ==

Care to explain why you un-flagged several discussions in the last few hours?  Now, if I say something, you would say, &quot;I am not being polite&quot;.  So how about we listen to your reasoning and then we proceed?&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/223.228.62.186|223.228.62.186]] ([[User talk:223.228.62.186|talk]]) 06:41, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:The flags say &quot;remove this flag when the discussion is over.&quot; As I noted in the edit summaries, most of those discussions had had no posts for months.  They were over.
:Log in before you post here again. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:28, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::ARCHIVE NOTE: Multiple anons repeatedly re-added the following aggressive and rude comment despite my repeated exercise of my right to remove it, per OWNTALK guidelines. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:16, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

::The discussion is over when the discussion is closed as &quot;failed&quot;/&quot;not done&quot;; or when the task is completed and the performer(s) mark it done.  For proposals to restructure the system, those who performed the changes is the one who should un-flag it.  Not any random user, especially not the one who is unaware of how things work.  Now, after reading “why&quot; you did it,  it is perfectly okay to say you do not understand how flagging or proposed restructuring works.  As a proof: I cite your answer.  So, do not mess with things you do not understand.&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/2401:4900:2504:ACA8:6CA8:75DD:3EAE:227F|2401:4900:2504:ACA8:6CA8:75DD:3EAE:227F]] ([[User talk:2401:4900:2504:ACA8:6CA8:75DD:3EAE:227F|talk]]) 15:48, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
== Smooth project function ==

Wikinews does not work the same way Wikipedia does.  Standing back to look at the two projects objectively, of course they would have different dynamics; the fundamental principle that Wikipedia applies, ultimately, to every big problem is that there is always an infinite amount of time in which to discuss and revise.  With that principle underlying everything, and that principle being manifestly, spectacularly false for news, it follows that the fundamental dynamics of Wikinews would be different.

I've remarked on the value, to any wiki project, of someone like you who &amp;mdash; simply put &amp;mdash; is scrupulously honest and continues to contribute.  I feel I need to point out, though, that in an important respect you are at cross-purposes with the optimal functioning of Wikinews.  Sure, acagastya could be less harsh in their phrasing; but while the reporter-reviewer relationship shouldn't be what you accuse acagastya of trying to make of it, it shouldn't be what you're trying to make of it, either.  The functional roles of reporter and reviewer are fundamentally different.  When this project works ''successfully'', reporters continually strive to improve the quality of their writing so that reviewing their writing will get ever-easier, using the feedback they get from reviewers.  When a reporter doesn't continue trying to improve in this way, their work becomes a heavier burden for review (both in amount of labor, and psychologically).  A symptom of this is when a reporter commonly responds to concerns in review comments not by attempting to fix the problem but by arguing that it doesn't need fixing or by saying somebody else should fix it.  After a while, that can have a significant negative impact on total project output.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:50, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
:Please take it as a sign of my respect for you that I am replying to your post instead of deleting it.
:Consciously or otherwise, Acagastya showed up looking for a fight. &quot;How many times have you been told to minimize parentheses&quot;? Try ''NEVER''.  Acagastya is inventing things to complain about and daring me to respond.  I could pick through the rest of the post and show you each time he does this if you think it's necessary.  But the bottom line is that when he gets in my face and goes &quot;OBEY ME! OBEY MEEEEEE!  I'M YOUR BOSS!&quot; the only thing I know to do is refuse to engage.  Anything else is &quot;Yes, master, I accept your right to speak to me this way.  Please do it again.&quot; If you can think of another way to shut his creepy behavior down, I'm all ears.
:Pi zero, you need to accept that there is a difference between &quot;improve&quot; and &quot;replace your way of doing things and your personal tastes with MINE.&quot; As always, whenever you think you are right, I will listen and look at any source you want to show me, but that's all I ''can'' do.  I'm not a mind reader.  
:What has happened on Wikinews is not that I have refused to improve but that you spot something that you think is a problem and I don't think is a problem and ''you can't communicate why you think it's a problem'' or you say something that contradicts what I can see elsewhere. That's where we're getting stuck.
:I 100% accept that &quot;I understand it in my head even though I can't explain it&quot; and conclusions are good enough motivations for you.  You do something, I'm fine with assuming that you have a reason that makes sense to you even if I don't understand.  You need to accept that &quot;Pi zero understands it but can't explain it&quot; is not a good enough motivation for me to do something.  Frankly, it feels like &quot;What are you going to believe?  What you see or what I tell you?&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:40, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
:: This is getting very close to the nature of things you're missing about Wikinews.  There are some really crucial points you're brushing very close to... and I (argh!) clearly can't afford to spend the time ''right now'' to try to articulate the points that want articulating at this point (compounded by awareness that my past efforts have fallen flat, and thus a need to proceed with great care and patience).&amp;nbsp;:-S&amp;nbsp; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:59, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
:::PLEASE REMOVE THE POST THAT YOU JUST MADE ON THE COLLAB PAGE.  You are encouraging him.  Aca's behavior is not merely &quot;harsh.&quot; It's creepy.  He's acting out a weird power dynamic and that has to stop. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:03, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
:::*breath* Acagastya's not stupid.  Sooner or later, even if it takes years, he will see that acting like other Wikinewsies are his little bitches and calling their comments crap doesn't work.  He'll settle down.  But don't undermine that.
:::As for &quot;what I'm missing about Wikinews,&quot; sure.  Take your time.  Whenever you feel like writing, I'll read, but I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt for a long time now.  We're hitting Emperor's New Clothes territory.  I have to entertain the idea that there's nothing there, not that there ''couldn't'' be anything there, just that there ''might'' be nothing there. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:08, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
:::: I too have come to something of an emperor's-new-clothes conclusion, reluctantly.  I rather like you, actually, and I'm inclined to approach things patiently, so I've been extremely patient with you; but gradually, over a long time, I've come to the conclusion that you don't just not understand, you are probably ''unable'' to understand.  At least, unable to understand some aspects of the situation.  Not that you don't have some genuine misconceptions, but that the primary thing I'd really ''like'' to be sharing with you is something you can't share.  So I have to find work-arounds.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:43, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::Is it that I don't understand or is it that there's something you've decided not to say, maybe because if you said it out loud you'd realize it's ugly?
:::::You get offended whenever I say &quot;I am your equal,&quot; to anyone. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:52, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
== Edit summary ==

I know there's some beef going around, but did you really need &quot;quit your bitching and just write another one&quot; in your edit summary? Let's all try to cool the jets. And please don't automatically say, Yes, you needed it. If anyone is supposed to be the cantankerous old man, it's me. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 01:51, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|SVTCobra}} Actually, that comment ''was'' an attempt to cool those very jets.  I'm trying to show that I can be a good sport about this.  At least now I know it had the opposite of the desired effect on at least one person.  In case there is ANY confusion, I was telling ''myself'' to quit bitching. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:58, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
::Fair enough. We all need to let out some steam from time-to-time. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 03:37, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
:::I concur.  So long as that steam isn't direct into someone else's face. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:44, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
:::: Curiously enough, despite the severe communication failures Darkfrog24 and I have experienced, I had not difficulty following the positive intent of that edit summary.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:00, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for the input.  I will add it to the pile.  I am confident I can find another iteration of positive snark. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:07, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
== [[Korean leaders Moon and Kim meet days after NK-US summit cancellation]] ==

This article has been published. Unfortunately, I did some 'trimming' in the review process. If you read my review comments, I hope you will understand what I did and why. It is important to not assign motives to anyone unless they explicitly state them. It may look obvious, but that is not our job. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 22:32, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
:I have no problem with you removing content from the article that you consider suitable for removal.  It's a team project. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:34, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
::Yes, but there's a little more. It's general advice not to interpret the meanings or goals of events. So, I do hope you read my comments on that article. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 22:40, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
:::Oh, I did.  This one's more of a team effort than usual, so I've been going back to check whether people are talking about parts of the article that I did or that AZ did. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:51, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
::::OK, yes, I must admit, I didn't try to decipher the edit history entirely. It was more about getting it published before we lost another one to stale. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 23:08, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::In other words, it was about the article itself and not about any one person, except perhaps the reader.  That is exactly as it should be. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::: In the interests of clarity, I point out some bounds on this.  In a reviewer dealing with a particular article, the only thing they ''can'' do is to deal with the article as it sits, and when the article has been extensively worked on by multiple authors, there is pretty much zero correlation between the nature of problems in different passages of the same article.  One has to review it as if it was composed by an anonymous crowd (like a Wikipedia article).  One ought to keep in mind, though,
::::::* That sort of review is extremely burdensome.  It's far easier to review an article by a single author of known high competency in Wikinews writing; knowing that the writer knows various project principles and is good at eliminating problems of those sorts from articles prior to submission, a reviewer can much more rapidly and easily assure that such problems do not occur or pinpoint those rare instances that do, and give more and higher-quality attention to each of those instances.  This is key to high productivity and high quality, that Wikinews writers who are good at it can produce articles that are vastly easier to review; quality follows because when the submitted article has almost nothing wrong with it, the reviewer can concentrate on what's level rather than blunting their edge clearing the underbrush of more superficial difficulties.  ''And'' the reviewer is left with not only more time remaining for additional review, but more energy for it.
::::::* What a reviewer might do, of necessity, in reviewing a single article does not absolve each individual writer of responsibility for striving continuously to improve their Wikinews writing skills, which ultimately translates into vast increases (or, in its absence, decreases) in project productivity because of the many-times-magnified effect on how much review labor is needed to process what they write.
:::::: --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:28, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I wouldn't necessarily say the review was harder in this case, just that my comments/criticisms were perhaps not all to be directed at Darkfrog as other editors were perhaps responsible for the bits I had to remove. I have acknowledged that above, and have neither the time nor inclination to figure out who actually added what to the article. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 14:53, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::::You did as you ought.  It doesn't matter who wrote what part of the article.   When a reviewer says &quot;this part of the article is NPOV,&quot; I will go back and see if I wrote that sentence and assess whether or not they're right if I feel like it.
::::::::Pi zero, I really don't see how a given sentence magically becomes more or less problematic depending on who wrote it or how two authors could compose the same article but one would be more work or take longer than the other or how an article composed by two or more people would be any more work for a reviewer than an article composed by one.  The facts are interpreted correctly or they are not.  Words are too flowery or they aren't.  These things are subjective but not affected by the number of drafters. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:08, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I mean, if what you're saying is that it's somehow harder for you, then I believe you and I don't have to understand exactly how it works, just chalk it up to individual differences among people, but I enjoy collaborating on articles and I don't plan to stop doing it unless you or anyone can show me a concrete reason why I should. [/quintessential] [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:27, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::: No, I'm not talking about an idiosyncrasy of mine.  Great depth of review experience does lead to deep insight into the review process. &lt;p&gt; I'll think on how best to explain the phenomenon.  One caveat that immediately leaps out:  it's not about a single sentence.  The effect can't be seen by considering a single sentence, any more than one can learn about the dynamics any complex system by studying a single small element in isolation. &lt;p&gt; (Btw, enjoying collaborating is ''not'' the point I'm most concerned about here, although it's certainly a multi-faceted issue that could be discussed.  My greatest concern is that there is an essential social contract on Wikinews, wherein reviewers go to great lengths to help individual writers improve, and writers perpetually strive to improve and thereby increase the project's effective review capacity and quality over time, yet you tend to respond to feedback by giving reasons why you needn't try to do better next time.  Which can undermine this essential social contract.)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 16:29, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Pi zero, you keep saying &quot;do better&quot; when it looks like you really mean &quot;submit; the sun is a reed candle if the reviewer says so.&quot;
::::::::::::In order to help me improve, the reviewer would have to know better than I do, and I've found that I'm about as likely to know best as the reviewer is, more likely if I'm dealing with a specialized topic.  Overall, Wikinews is a place where we can learn from each other on footing that averages out to be equal.
::::::::::::If someone says, &quot;You violated WN:FUTURE&quot; or &quot;that word is misused here,&quot; I can and should say &quot;I reviewed WN:FUTURE, and you will see was not writing in the future tense as described&quot; or link them to a dictionary showing that the word is not misused.  Then they can learn.  I cannot defer to expertise that the reviewer doesn't have.
::::::::::::Why should the reader get an inferior article because the drafter was required to stroke the reviewer's ego? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:09, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::You say &quot;social contract,&quot; but when I came here I did not agree to do anything but write news articles and maintain basic civility.  If there is some rule saying, &quot;Drafters must always obey reviewers, even when they are wrong&quot; or &quot;For our purposes, reviewers must be treated as if they are never wrong, like the umpire in a sports match,&quot; then that rule must be written down and endorsed by the community. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: No, Darkfrog24.  Unfortunately.  You don't know as well.  You aren't aware of not knowing as well.  And the usual means, by which newcomers here recognize that they don't know as well as the experienced reviewers, are not going to work.  Problems propagating outward from your misunderstanding are dragging down the entire project, and danged if I know what to do about it.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 17:51, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::(edit conflict) '''danged if I know what to do about it.'''  1) Stop expecting me to take &quot;because I say so&quot; for an answer. 2) WRITE IT DOWN AND DISCLOSE IT ALL PUBLICLY.  You want me to obey rules that exist only in your head where I can't see them.  Get them ''outside'' your head where I can.  And if you write them down, look at the page and find that it reads &quot;Wikinewsies must obey me, treat me like I'm better than they are, and do everything the way I like and think best,&quot; then throw it away.  Otherwise, submit it to the community for formal recognition. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:26, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::: You have been told these things, along with reasons why.  The explanations just slid off you.  It's patently false that we haven't explained things to you, but very true that the explanations have been demonstrated to not get through to you.  Naturally, you've devised alternative explanations since you couldn't see the things we presented to you (which I suspect was, from your perspective, rather like having people show you a picture of an empty field and say, &quot;see, that's the castle, right there&quot;).  The fact that your explanations insult me is just one more unpleasantness in an all-around unpleasant situation.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:39, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::There is a difference between you telling me something as an individual&amp;mdash;so it's &quot;I,&quot; not &quot;we&quot;&amp;mdash;and a formal, endorsed policy.  Your opinion is valuable to me as that of a respected colleague, but you should not expect me to treat it with the same obedience as something formally endorsed by the community.
:::::::::::::::::Pi zero, you have to admit that there's an ulterior motive here, whether you really have it or not.  You're trying to ''get me to do what you want'', and yes, that's one of those times when people tell lies.  Emperor's new clothes.  I have to entertain the idea that the Emperor's about to walk out the door in his underpants.  The no-castle-in-the-empty field metaphor is spot on: I don't seen any castle, and you tell me that's because I'm too stupid to see it.  Of ''course'' I'm not going to go &quot;Oh no!  I didn't know I was stupid!  Would you please let me be your slave?&quot;  I can give you the benefit of the doubt and ask if you've maybe got a better picture, but that is me being ''extra'' nice.
:::::::::::::::::Your word alone is not my law.  If you want me to think that you're right and I'm wrong, you need to show me proof.  There's nothing unreasonable about that.  Accept it.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
{{outdent|::::::::::::::}}
Sadly, I have trouble sitting by for some of that.
* &quot;you have to admit that there's an ulterior motive here, whether you really have it or not.&quot;  At first I thought you'd just said I had an ulterior motive.  The last qualification on that leaves me having no idea, really, what the sentence means.
* &quot;You're trying to ''get me to do what you want''&quot;.  Depending on how you mean that, it may be false.  Ultimately, I do want you to act in the best interests of Wikinews.  I'm of the opinion that if you realized you were doing something harmful to Wikinews, you would try to fix it.  And so I'm looking for ways to help you understand better.  (Though I'm having no luck, which seems to be partly because you've surrounded yourself with ways of deflecting any suggestion that you might be missing some important things.)
* Something stunningly false: &quot;you tell me that's because I'm too stupid to see it.&quot;  I most certainly did not say any such thing.  This stuff is ''way'' too complicated/subtle to admit such a crude (and insulting) description.  The portrayal as if I was asking for slavish obedience is also astray.  I'm guessing a significant contributing factor there is that you haven't realized the nature of the dynamics of the writer&amp;ndash;reviewer relationship, which is... argh.  No analogy is going to be quite right (I'm reminded of an xkcd cartoon, &quot;Teaching Physics&quot;, with mouseover &quot;Space-time is like some simple and familiar system which is both intuitively understandable and precisely analogous, and if I were Richard Feynman I'd be able to come up with it&quot;); maybe, up to a point, think of the reviewer as the presiding judge in a court case?  Another flawed analogy.  It's definitely not at all a symmetric sort of situation, though.
* You want &quot;proof&quot;.  But it's inherent in the situation that the kinds of proof you are asking for ''cannot'' exist, and I recall having pointed out in the past why that was so.  In order to see anything significant in the absence of those kinds of proof, you have to start by first assuming that what I'm saying is false.  There are several reasons that state of things could come about, and I suspect more than one of them applies here.  Seems like you came here assuming Wikinews worked the same way as Wikipedia; came here already biased against believing things heard from me; and, not having (I know you'll hate hearing this; again it's not &quot;stupid&quot;) the right sort of cognitive gift to see the abstract dynamics at play here, you literally didn't see evidence where it was presented to you.  All those things wrapped up together.
--[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

:''you literally didn't see evidence where it was presented to you''
:Show me.  Link to a time when you did that.  Maybe we're defining &quot;evidence&quot; differently and I have to use another word with you. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:59, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

== [[United States delegation travels to North Korea to plan Trump-Kim summit]] ==

I have issues with the fourth paragraph. Both NPOV concerns and stylistic concerns. I'd love to rewrite it myself. But it would go far beyond a &quot;tweak&quot; or other reasonable edits a reviewer can make independently. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 20:06, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:I'll take a look if I get the time. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:11, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
::Baker doesn't even comment on the demolition of Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site, so how can he summarize what other people think? --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 20:35, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
:::These comments are better placed on the article's collaboration page (I'd assumed you were posting to both), where anyone who wants to act on your suggestions may see them. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:05, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
== Small snake's fossil found in amber ==

I read about it the day before -- from what I read, it was the oldest known snake fossil, discovered in amber in Malaysia. I don't have any articles in my mind to write, but that type of scientific discovery is your territory. Any chance you could write about it? I can share the links if that helps.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 15:47, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:This is indeed interesting Acagastya, but I have a lot of stuff going on right now and can't promise I'll be able to get to it.  I'm still on Wikibreak for something that I thought would take a week, but it's taking months.  I just like to jump back in with a draft once in the while to show you guys I haven't bailed for good. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:00, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
::I am planning for a five-day wikibreak, but have a darned goal to complete, which I am not so close. I will start the article, if you cannot get to it, I will start it. Currently eyeing at the German bus attack. I hope you can cover up for my absence in the last week of this month, I need some time to regain the energy and confidence.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 16:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::A goal, you say?  Drop me the links and I'll see what I can do. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:27, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Acagastya}} Okay, draft is up.  I've hit review on it because the findings were published two days ago, but I don't mind if you've got changes to make.  I had some fun with the title.  Now tell me more about this goal of yours. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:38, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::Half hour and it's still not showing up in the newsroom.  Here's the direct link: [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Scientists_say_snake_was_some_Cretaceous_crawler:_earliest_ever_baby_snake_fossil_found_in_Myanmar][[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:19, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
{{od}} I don't know if you are using the UTC live clock gadget. If you are using it, click it and it will purge the cache. Otherwise, you can clear the cache by pressing Ctrl+Shift+R. Or the easiest way is to click the blue button on [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page this page]. Just in case you didn't understand what I was saying, cached data is the data your browser would save, often preventing the new information from showing up on the client-side. Others can still see it. I don't know how to link the gadget here, on talk page. Maybe {{ping|Pi zero}} can tell you. But it is in the preference section. If you search for this substring: &quot;UTC&quot; you would find it.&lt;br&gt;[[Special:Contributions/117.198.176.250|117.198.176.250]] ([[User talk:117.198.176.250|talk]]) 04:00, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
: Certain pages have a &quot;refresh&quot; button; the newsroom and the main page are amongst them.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 11:59, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
::Remember a couple of months back when I started an article and said &quot;Acagastya's version wasn't visible when I started this&quot;?
::No, I'm not using any gizmos, just the refresh on my browser. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:10, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
:::Sometimes just using refresh isn't enough because the browser just refreshes its local copy (aka the cached copy) of the page you're viewing. This is done to increase browser performance by decreasing the number of times the page has to be retrieved from the server. If there's a &quot;purge this page&quot; or similar link on a page, clicking it will clear out your local copy and show you the actual updated page. (I know I haven't been around lately... I lurk, mostly. Bad habit, I know). [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 03:50, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
::::For that, instead of &quot;Ctrl + R&quot; for normal refresh, try &quot;Ctrl+Shift+R&quot; to bypass the cache.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:57, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
::::: Just in case there were any confusion, there are two kinds of &quot;refresh&quot; involved.  Control-Shift-R, or the like, is about clearing browser cache.  However, the wiki software keeps its own cache of a page, which contains its version of dynamic page lists, which are what we're talking about here, and even if your browser doesn't cache the page, what it gets from wiki server will still be whatever is in the server's cache.  To ''request'' that the server clear its cache of a page, you do a &quot;purge&quot; action, and the simplest way to do that for the newsroom is to use the &quot;refresh&quot; button on the newsroom page.  You'll find it on the right side of the big header at the top of the newsroom; it looks like this:
:::::: &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh] [[File:Reload page.png|22px|link={{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}}|Refresh this page]]'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;
::::: Click &quot;refresh&quot; on the newsroom page when you want the server to update the DPLs on the newsroom. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 10:56, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

== Re the green underline gadget ==

Would you mind trying an alternative for that? I just want to know how the new style could be improved. If you would like to try, I will tell you what you would have to do to try it.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:53, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
:I have no idea what you're talking about.  Do you mean the green underlining thing that underlines Wikipedia links that are also Wikinews categories? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:42, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
::Not exactly. Let me explain with an example. if you use {{tl|w}} for those who have a local target, say {{tl|w|Snakes}}, well, technically, it should be &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Snakes]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. It is about those {{tl|w}} templates which can be changed to hard local links.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:49, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
:::Yes, that's what I was talking about.  What's going on?  You invented a better gadget and want me to test it? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:50, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
== [[First academic year of female Cub Scouts for Boy Scouts of America begins|Boy Scouts of America to begin accepting girls, which raises issues with Girl Scouts]] ==

Technically, because this is marked as prepared, it isn't subject to being &quot;abandoned&quot; as such; but we ''do'' have recognized grounds to delete a prepared article about an event that's already happened, on which point this article is more ambiguous.  It's been marked as abandoned for about four days.  Your thoughts? --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:09, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
:My thoughts are that I was saving it for refresh when the first girl dens get started, which should be September. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:18, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
:: Fair enough. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:22, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

::: Er.  This didn't reach publication last month ('''[[Talk:First academic year of female Cub Scouts for Boy Scouts of America begins|talk]]''').  GG tagged it for abandonment.  Should this be held for another round, or is it safe to let it go (keeping in mind, it ''can'' be undeleted at neede)?  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:37, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks for being so extra-mile, but this is an &quot;Oh well, we fought bravely&quot; case.  I kicked it to &quot;prepared&quot; the first time because I could see a new focal event coming up, but I don't see one this time.  I expected it would be deleted in due course, like other articles that time out unpublished.
::::Those Scouts are feisty ones.  They'll get in the news again sooner or later. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:25, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
== Attribution by examples ==

Hi Darkfrog24,

Here is an illustration.

&quot;On Friday (when), US-based technology giant Microsoft (who) confirmed (what; careful word choice - we don't say &quot;acquired&quot;) acquisition of software code hosting and version controlling website (introduce to international audience) GitHub. The announcement was made by Microsoft via their official blog (how), which also mentioned Nat Friedman was to become new Chief Executive Officer of GitHub (another 'what').

Microsoft had announced plans to acquire GitHub for a price of 7.5 billion US dollars (USD) on June 4. On October 19, the European Union's regulators approved the acquisition. According to the June announcement, Microsoft was to pay the amount in stock. (1. this paragraph specifies the dates exactly 2. a bit of the 'what')

After Microsoft made the announcement, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella tweeted, saying, &quot;I'm thrilled to welcome GitHub to Microsoft. Together, we will continue to advance GitHub as a platform loved by developers and trusted by organizations.&quot; (a bit more of the 'why')

In a GitHub blog titled &quot;Pull request successfully merged. Starting build...&quot;, Nat Friedman said (here we say the fact: this person said this thing. we don't say 'Microsoft was going to make the platform more reliable, secure, and performant' because this is not a fact) making the platform &quot;accessible to more developers around the world&quot; as well as &quot;[r]eliability, security, and performance&quot; were in &quot;top of mind for&quot; them. (aggressive quoting, stressing the fact that this is only the statement by this particular person) He also stated, &quot;GitHub will operate independently as a community, platform, and business&quot; and &quot;will retain its product philosophy&quot;, keeping &quot;its developer-first values&quot;. He also wrote today was to be his first day as GitHub's CEO.

Friedman was previously the CEO of Xamarin, a software company that allows developers to create native iOS, Android and Windows phone applications written in the C# programming language. Microsoft acquired Xamarin in 2016. (background; timing very clear)

According to Friedman's blog (attribution; we don't just leave this fact out there even if it seems widely known), GitHub is used by more than 31 million developers worldwide. Technology giants including companies like Airbnb, Apple, Google, Facebook and Microsoft itself have been using GitHub for their open-source projects. However, on May 31, days before Microsoft announced plans for GitHub acquisition, desktop environment software GNOME completed moving from GitHub to GitLab, another software code sharing, hosting and version control providing website, a competitor of GitHub. (balance)&quot;

Perhaps some of this is useful as a complement to the discussions above.

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:03, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:I don't think I can tell you why you're offending me without offending you.  I think you need to leave this alone for a while. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:10, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::Let's continue this discussion in a week, next Thursday. Is that OK for you? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:11, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Honestly, I might be unavailable then but I don't know.  I've been scaling back from Project Wiki due to problems on another part of the project.  I really thought I'd just duck in a write an article or two.  Didn't expect it to be a big thing.  We'll get to it when we get to it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:39, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::I guess I'll query you at that point, and you reply whenever you are ready, Darkfrog24. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:01, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
== Re: reviewers (from [[Special:PermaLink/4442301]]) ==

You say, &quot;You say you learn things from other reviewers. That is because you are colleagues. You have things to learn from each other.&quot;

This is a good way to put it. :-)

&quot;You do Wikinews and yourselves a disservice when you assume you could not possibly learn anything from me.&quot;

I am concerned. Has this actually occurred in any place from any of the reviewers? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 03:57, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

:Yes.
:The incident that springs most readily to memory was with a reviewer who spoke English as a subsequent language.  They insisted I had used an English word or phrase wrong, but I had not.  I believe I was able to provide sources showing I was expressing the intent correctly&amp;mdash;I do not expect others to just take my word for it&amp;mdash;but, as I remember it, both that reviewer and another one took exception to my not immediately submitting to the reviewer's judgement.
:This current conversation is taking place because someone objected to my &quot;arguing&quot; with a reviewer.  I explained why I chose the term &quot;on the liberal side of American politics&quot; and how I'm interpreting policy.  Even though the reviewer did not come to agree with me, that does not mean I shouldn't make my case. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:53, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks for sharing this Darkfrog24. 
::1) There are two kinds of arguing with a reviewer: pre-publication and post-publication.
::For the story at hand, arguing pre-publication is a loss of freshness (risk it doesn't get published in time; risk that not as many people open the story because they have already read it elsewhere).
::For everything, pre-publication arguing may delay review of other articles and result in their loss of freshness. (In contrast, they may postpone post-publication arguing, and ponder it in their head to give a balanced response several days later.)
::For this reason I would personally recommend against arguing with the reviewer pre-publication, unless they are adding inaccuracies. If you do decide to do this, I recommend to be highly articulate about the point and show its '''advantage''' over the version proposed by the reviewer very clearly. And be ready to accept the reviewer's point for the moment: a post-publication consensus can be reached on the water cooler afterwards.
::2) However if a reviewer insists on their point gently I do not see how they &quot;assume they could not possibly learn anything from you&quot;. What indicates that they made such assumption? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 05:14, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
:::I take correct English very seriously.  The article should be correct when published.  The real problem, though, is that the reviewer did not consider the possibility that I was right.
:::In multiple conversations with Pi zero, I've said &quot;we have things to learn from each other,&quot; to which he responds with what I remember as &quot;No no no, only ''you'' learn.  Reviewers are already always right because they're them and you're you.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:19, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::::You can find a version which is both correct English and satisfies the reviewer, and bring any other concerns to post-publication. I think there is more than two ways to do this. 
::::I agree that he said several times to you to learn something but I do not recall him denying the opportunity to learn from you. Do you have a link for this? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 05:24, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::That's not the real issue, Gryllida.  The issue is the &quot;The reviewer is always right and the drafter is always wrong&quot; attitude, which I reject.  The issue is when a reviewer's had a rotten day at work or school and takes it out on me.  I'm not here to be anyone's punching bag.
:::::There are some on this page.  Hit CTRL-F &quot;each other&quot; or &quot;colleague&quot; and look around. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:29, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::In [[User_talk:Darkfrog24#Third_Trump_travel_ban_takes_effect|this example]] Pi zero was asking you to learn, but he did not deny learning from you. These are not mutually exclusive.
::::::Where can I find an example of ''him'' actually saying he denies learning from you? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 05:42, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Keep looking.  It's there.  It might be on the talk page of an article I've worked on. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 10:38, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Hi Darkfrog24,
::::::::#In March 2017 in &quot;Non-neutrality&quot; section Pi zero first expressed difficulty elaborating what news neutrality is.
::::::::#In May 2017 there was a discussion about withdrawing your nomination for reviewer.
::::::::#In May 2017 you picked on Acagastya for not using the article talk page. (I am not sure why this causes such a large discomfort. It is not a big deal. People are volunteers and they leave messages where they can; you can suggest them what your preferences are, but asking with a sense of being offended or frustrated is a bit unhelpful.)
::::::::#There was some friendly conversations between you and Pi zero in May-=June 2017.
::::::::#July 2017 - article did not have a lede - Pi zero concerned you are not learning - you react by 'I am not your student, you learn from me too'.
::::::::#July 2017 - Pi zero said attribution works but an article needs more work for neutrality.
::::::::#August 2017 - Acagastya said your link format in sources was wrong - you reacted 'this is not in the rules' - this was not highly collaborative or positive.
::::::::#August 2017 - someone said you often break NPOV in your articles about US politics.
::::::::#6 November 2017 - acagastya left something you perceived as a hostility in his review comment.
::::::::#15 November 2017 -- you said &quot; Acagastya is not supposed to be giving me feedback. Acagastya is supposed to be leaving me alone. &quot;
::::::::#March 2018 - I gave you tips about past tense, inverted pyramid, 5Ws in the lede
::::::::#May 2018 - Pi zero said you need to cooperate with Acagastya even if he is harsh and continue to learn from his feedback.
::::::::#May 2018 - Pi zero said you &quot;[...] you don't just not understand, you are probably ''unable'' to understand. At least, unable to understand some aspects of the situation. [...]&quot; top which you replied &quot;''You get offended whenever I say &quot;I am your equal,&quot; to anyone.''&quot;  -- again NOT A REASONABLY REPLY, if he says you need to learn it does not mean he denies learning from you.
::::::::#May 2018 - you said to Pi zero &quot;You're trying to get me to do what you want&quot;. -- this is not really a big problem .. a part of the role of a reviewer
::::::::In summary, you had found Acagastya harsh at times, and you found Pi zero wants you to learn something, however '''''none of this in my view means anyone denies learning from you'''''. Perhaps your memory of it helps you find it much quicker? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 21:35, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Maybe there's a clearer case on an article talk page.  I don't remember off the top of my head and I don't keep a list of all the times people have done things that bothered me.  Let's deal with what you can see.  I'll pick a few:
::::::::::3. I was not picking on Acagastya.  Acagastya did something that happened to bother me and I asked him to stop.  What you'll notice I didn't do was pretend that Acagastya had broken a rule by bothering me in the first place or tsk at him for not magically knowing it would bother me before I told him.
::::::::::7. The link templates is actually a good example. 1) I had seen with my own eyes that Wikinews articles used more than one format for links and that the style guide doesn't have a rule about it.  2) I'd noticed Acagastya changing the format of my links from one style to another.  I did not change them back.  I figured he just liked them that way, so if he was willing to do the work, why not? 3) Acagastya comes to this page and tells me he's &quot;corrected&quot; my format and tells me to do it his way from now on. 4) I point out that the way I had been doing things wasn't incorrect, that I hadn't broken any rules, and I suggest that he add a passage to the style guide if it really is that important.  This is core.  One of two things is happening.  ''Either'' this really is rule ''that I had no way of knowing about'' or Acagastya just has a personal preference and felt like ordering someone around that day.  If it really is a rule, then writing it down not only makes it possible for the drafter to know the rule is there but keeps Acagastya from looking like a jerk.  If it's not really a rule, well, then don't get on my case for breaking it.  If you want the article changed to match your own preferences, then go ahead and change it but it's not my job to do it for you.
::::::::::When the rules aren't written down, it is not possible to tell whims and rules apart.  If, over the years I've been here, we had added to the style guide and NPOV as these individual issues came up, we wouldn't be having this discussion now.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:12, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
{{od}} regarding the source links--Darkfrog24 did not make use of {{tl|source}}, as I had highlighted in the talk page thread. They just simply dumped the URLs, which is not the way sources are cited. If they had read [[WN:Source]], they would have known that it has been explicitly sated to use that template. And even if they had not, after spending months on enwn writing articles, would not not know that they are supposed to use that template?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:22, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
:For the record, same applies for learning from edit history, and the review comments that a reviewer makes, Darkfrog24. If you had paid attention to those, and actually read the relevant pages mentioned in the welcome message, and often linked here and there during review, reviewers would have been reviewing and editors would have been submitting new stories instead of this time consuming discussion.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:24, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::The URLS in question weren't being used as sources; they were other links.  And I did not just dump them.  I used a format that I'd seen on other published articles in my months of contributing on Wikinews.
::I do pay attention and read your comments.  I just don't always agree with them.
::No one is making you or anyone participate in this discussion instead of review articles. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:29, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
:::If you want, we can temporarily UDEL those articles and see which &quot;format&quot; you had used. There is a template for any link that you want to add. You just did not follow it.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:34, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::::I don't even remember which article it was.  I ''think'' it was external links but I'm not sure.  It was a long time ago, man.  We don't have to get back into this.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:39, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::::You know what?  I take it back.  It looks like you feel attacked, and if you feel the need to defend your actions back then, go ahead.  I just did the same for myself and I won't grudge it to you. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:01, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
{{od}} funny how you want to guilt trip me by saying I feel attacked. I actually remember that you did not make use of {{tl|source}} and honestly, if we were not in hurry, and I did not have committed and promised to some people, we could have debunked at least this one case. Reminds me of what SVTCobra once said.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:07, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
:I did not mean to guilt trip you.  I was careful to say &quot;looks like&quot; so as not to presume.  Guess it didn't work.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:12, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

So instead of telling Acagastya that he is wrong you can thank him for the change and add a comment 

:Could we please add sentence 'In the external links section, the sources are listed using the {{tl|source}} template also.'  to [[Wikinews:Style_guide#External_links_section]]?
:Is this the desired format? In articles X, Y, Z from 2018 it was used, but in articles A, B, C from 2018 instead method PQRF was used. I am proposing this change by the advice of reviewer ABC from article DEF today.

...to some water cooler. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
::That's very similar to what I did, Gryllida.  If you'll look, I said &quot;If you feel this is a correct vs incorrect issue, it would be appropriate to propose adding some text the style guide.&quot; Acagastya reacted negatively to that, and I wasn't going to insist.
::To be clear, ''I'' don't want there to be a rule about formatting for external links.  I think it's unnecessary.  So long as the English is correct, let the people actually doing the work on the article decide which of the correct options they want to use. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:01, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Readers will want to see consistent format, that's why reviewers recommend it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 00:03, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Wikinews does not at this time have a rule requiring that every article use the same format for external links.  If you think Wikinews should have this rule, by all means, make the proposal. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:11, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::We need to take reviewer's feedback more seriously. Whatever is written there is the source of changes in the future. Think of it like laws in parliament are written, and decisions made by Judges are not written as law but are still followed. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 00:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::(Relevant principle: {{W|Precedent}}.) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[WN:IRC|chat]]) 00:14, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::No.
::::::You're coming back to &quot;Don't believe what you see; believe whatever I tell you.&quot; I'm not going to do that and you need to take no for an answer.
::::::Even if there were no such problems as reviewers abusing their authority and ordering drafters around for fun, there is the fact that not all reviewers agree with each other on matters like this.   This very issue, external link format, is an example of that.  Scroll up and look at the rest of the conversation.  Your formal precedent system has merit as an idea, but that's not how things work right now.   [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:28, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Now that I think of it, though, whenever I ask Pi zero if he can back up what he's saying, I do ask &quot;Is there a written rule ''or a previous discussion in which consensus was established''.&quot; So I guess I do believe in precedent, just not in the specific way you're describing it.  One reviewer's comment about procedure is not precedent, but a big, multi-Wikinewsie discussion about procedure is.
::::::This would not apply to our water cooler discussion, though, because no one on or off Project Wiki has the authority to declare me anyone's student, employee or little bitch the way they have authority over Wikinews articles. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:32, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::* Judges abuse their power from time to time, which is dealt with by means of appeal there. Here it is dealt with by consensus at the article talk page or a water cooler. 
:::::::* Arguing with the reviewer can be productive too, but you need to step in ''their'' shoes for this: make ''your'' view point interesting for ''them'', basing the message on ''their values and knowledge'' (not yours). [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:06, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::If what the reviewer wants isn't too improper or delivered creepily, I usually change the article first and then come back to the talk page to discuss theory, like with this recent &quot;liberal side of American politics&quot; issue.
::::::::I tend to base the message on reliable sources, like the AP Style Guide.  That way it's clear that I'm not expecting the other person to submit to me as a person. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I propose a change of this approach:
:::::::::
:::::::::1) If it's improper don't change it. -- looks OK, can stay as is
:::::::::
:::::::::2) If it's delivered creepily -- make the requested modifications to the article anyway and then a few days later,
:::::::::* '''''if''''' the creepiness is recurring throughout reviews of different stories, query the reviewer about their feedback delivery methods at their talk page.
:::::::::* if the creepiness is not recurring, query about it too -- but a few days later after the story is completed, and after their feelings have settled down. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:18, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::1) If the text is improper, I should fix it.  If you meant &quot;not improper,&quot; then yup, I already do that. 2) Sorry, no.  If someone creeps me out, sometimes the best thing to do is not engage. &quot;Creepiness&quot; might not be the best word in this case, but I've had talks with Acagastya about what I saw as a negative behavior pattern. I'm trying to keep it vague so that today!Acagastya does not feel attacked. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:22, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::1) I insist that '''''behaviour patterns of reviewers need to be discussed in a separate venue, where the discussion can occur without urgency; and &lt;u&gt;the reviewer feedback needs to be followed immediately&lt;/u&gt;'''''. I think this approach would be constructive towards news production and respectful. 
:::::::::::
:::::::::::2) Mixing up behaviour into the process of revising an article is not a workable approach. I recommend against it.
:::::::::::
:::::::::::3) A good venue is their personal talk page. Asking 'let us update policies' at a water cooler where the true reason is 'I disagree with this particular review and would like your confirmation of whether what they said is correct' is not a good idea. Were it posted as the latter, the confirmation could have been obtained more quickly and easier. I recommend that anyone who has issues with a review '''''is specific about this problem and links to the review in their question''''' as this greatly reduces the effort that is spent on the discussion.
:::::::::::
:::::::::::4) I know [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Acagastya&amp;oldid=4369003#If_you_want_to_talk this] but in my opinion your first message there is an attack. I think it may work better when you point him to specific comments, and ask him for his explanation of what they meant. This way he has room for not defending himself but rather for providing a good and positive explanation of his previous behaviour (in the case it was not as belittling as you interpreted it), for an apology in the case it is due, and for an improvement. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:22, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::1) No.  If a reviewer is being too aggressive or otherwise inappropriate with me, then I should reserve the option of completely disengaging so that compliance will not be misread as consent or being politely confrontational as I see fit in that specific situation.
:::::::::::::3) No I did not suggest updating WN:NPOV because I disagree with Pi zero about whether &quot;liberal&quot; is a biased term.  It's that ''this keeps happening''.  Pi zero tells me I broke a rule.  That rule's not written down anywhere, but I'm nonetheless expected to have already known it existed.  A third party speculates that I broke it on purpose.   Writing the rules down would fix all that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:40, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Does he suggest you broke a rule? I read reviewers' comments as tips for improving the content, not accusations. 
::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::You can simply ignore groundless accusations. Do not engage, like you say. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:15, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::The &quot;third party speculates I broke it on purpose&quot; refers to Ca2James claiming I was pushing boundaries.  I was not.
:::::::::::::::It depends on what's going on, but yes.  Sometimes I refuse to engage with reviewer comments that I consider inappropriate.  But that means I don't dig through them to see if there was anything useful about the article in there. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:19, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::(edit conflict) Please do not misquote me: I did not say that you had broken a rule on purpose. What I [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:U.S._pipe_bombing_suspect_makes_first_court_appearance&amp;diff=4441486&amp;oldid=4441477 said] was that the arguing seemed like pushing boundaries. Also, I'd appreciate it if you would ping me when mentioning something I said or did. Thanks! [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 04:03, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::I didn't misquote you.  I summarized.  &quot;Third party does this&quot; is a ''kind'' of thing that happens that your comment happened to fit into.  You'll notice that when I later your name to it, I also used your own words. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:05, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::But everyone, look over here.  I did something that was not improper but that Ca2James didn't happen to like, and he asked me not to.  Check out those good manners! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::: Darkfrog24, I was referring specifically to [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;diff=4442608&amp;oldid=4442604 the comment] I replied to, where you both inaccurately summarized my comment and mentioned me by name. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 13:33, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::The action I attribute to you there is the claim that I was pushing boundaries.  That made me feel pretty inaccurately summarized myself. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:39, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::: See subsection [[#Continued]] below for further replies. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 18:39, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::1) I guess if you want Pi zero to no longer tell you that you are breaking rules is by keeping a log of what rules he says you have broken. 
::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::Keep adding new articles to the list, perhaps at [[Special:MyPage/news]], with notes about what was wrong.
::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::This may help you with identifying the problematic concepts which you consistently disagree with Pi zero about, and analyse them a bit more so that you can formulate and ask any questions about them. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:50, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:{{od|::::::::::::::}}2) Here is a list of your articles from last month (October):
:
:* [[U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren releases DNA test results, asks Donald Trump to make promised donation]] missing times in 2nd+ para; not enough 'how'; insufficient attribution; analysis present in body
:* [[U.S. pipe bombing suspect makes first court appearance]] the 'liberal' thing; not withdrawn from review queue after stale; broad characterizations being made
:* [[Syria's National Museum re-opens after six years of civil war]] past tense; inverted pyramid; 5Ws; verify 'foreign'
:
:September:
:
:* [[First academic year of female Cub Scouts for Boy Scouts of America begins]] - why, when missing in lede; some times missing down in 2nd+ para; some information single-source
:* [[NASA's TESS spacecraft reports its first exoplanet]] missing 'who' in lede
:* [[Study suggests Mars hosted life-sustaining habitat for millions of years]] missing 'when'(of focus) in lede
:
:Perhaps you want to go over these again as some of the characterisations that I put may be inaccurate. 
:
:Consistently you have problems with attribution and lede I think. To avoid these issues perhaps after writing the article post a 'When: Where: Why: How: Who: What: ' section on the talk page where you copy this information from the lede as a checklist. Then split the article into sentences and for each one of them write who it is known from and whether it warrants attribution in your opinion.
:
:3) Examples of attribution:
:
:* &lt;mark&gt;Bustamante's report notes&lt;/mark&gt; searching DNA for Native American ancestry is difficult because the databases of known Native American DNA to which to compare samples are relatively small.  
:* &lt;mark&gt;An aide to &lt;/mark&gt;Warren &lt;mark&gt;said her&lt;/mark&gt; DNA was collected in August.
:
:4) Examples of lede changes:
:
:4.1) &quot;&lt;mark&gt;In a ceremony attended by archaeologists and restoration specialists, authorities &lt;/mark&gt;re-opened [[Syria]]'s {{w|National Museum of Damascus}} this Sunday, after six years of military conflict.  The displays feature archaeological exhibits dating back to prehistoric times, cloth from the ancient city of {{w|Palmyra}}, and live demonstrations of restoration of pieces damaged during the war.  &lt;mark&gt;Representatives of the government represented this as a milestone in the return to normalcy after victories in Syria's war against the [[Islamic State]].&lt;/mark&gt;&quot;
:
:4.2) &quot;In a new study announced &lt;mark&gt;on Monday&lt;/mark&gt; and available in the current volume of ''{{w|Earth and Planetary Science Letters}}'', an international team led by scientists from {{w|Brown University}} in the [[United States]] said the planet [[Mars]] once had the right water and temperatures to host simple life forms &amp;mdash; just not on its surface.  Mars's rocky, subterranean layer once, for some hundreds of millions of years, had enough water and reductants to support some of the same kinds of microbial communities seen on Earth.&quot; [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:51, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::Perhaps you're vague in your understanding of facts: &quot;inappropriate&quot;, &quot;creepy&quot;, &quot;broke a rule&quot; are not factual they are subjective and not sufficiently specific or complemented by evidence.
::
::I would suggest to challenge yourself to be more factual in your communication, both in news and at talk pages. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 06:35, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

=== 'Not the research project' (I don't like to scroll. This heading is a shortcut to the last discussion.) ===
:No.
:&quot;keeping a log of what rules he says you have broken.&quot; &quot;challenge yourself to be more factual&quot;
:I think if you'll take a minute, you'll realize you just told me to do a 500-hour research project so I can memorize every reviewer's every belief, conclusion, and whim.  For heck's sake, ''NO!''
:The idea that I am not factual enough is your opinion.  I often find that you specifically often ask for information that isn't present in the source articles (and why not ask for it? You weren't being rude).  Were those articles, those professionally published and edited articles &quot;not factual enough&quot;?  I think not.
:I am not going to do a research project on Pi zero or any other reviewers.  I am not going to spend hours and hours of my time, my ''volunteer'' time every day ''studying'' you guys to figure out what you mean so that I can anticipate your every whim like a good servant.  I have a job and other things to do.  If I ever put that much time into Wikinews, it will be for something that ''I'' want to do and think is necessary.  I am confident that what I would find is &quot;Reviewers' beliefs and preferences do not match each other's.  One person thinks 'liberal' is biased and the next one doesn't.&quot;
:It would take far less time, take up far less space, and be far, far more efficient and have far more benefits in the long run to just ''write down the rules''. The idea &quot;you must spend hours of your time so that I don't have to spend one minute of mine&quot; has come up before.  I'm not okay with that and you should not expect it of me..  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:05, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::Okay...  For the record, I don't think you were being arrogant with me just now.  I think you were doing something like thinking out loud and got caught up in your train of thought. It's perfectly natural to be absorbed in a problem and realize &quot;Oh!  The engine wouldn't overheat if we threw it in a lake!&quot; with a lag time before &quot;Oh wait but we ''shouldn't'' throw it in a lake.&quot;  It reminds me of Doc Brown in ''Back to the Future Part III'' where he's going over ways to get the Delorean to 88 miles per hour. &quot;We can wait until the lake freezes! Oh wait we can't.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:04, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::You are right that your end goal is to avoid receiving 'not ready' remarks on the same previously known by you issues again and again. This is a very correct observation.  
:::
:::However, receiving 'not ready' remarks for new issues -- issues which did not occur before, something that is either specific to the news story being reported or a principle which needs application today and did not need application yesterday -- is perfectly fine, as this allows you to learn these new principles and apply them in the future. Guessing ''this sort of new principles thing'' is not a part of your job. Moreover, this phenomenon, the absorption of new principles from 'not ready' reviewer feedback, is recurring and is a normal part of work of every author here. Would you agree? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:50, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

My goal is to write good articles.  Negative reviewer comments are merely annoying (I mean regular negative with nothing creepy).
The problem is that reviewer feedback is not always correct, not always useful, and sometimes no more than a whim.  When it comes to writing, I just know more than most of you.  Sometimes you guys are right and sometimes you're not.  That's why it's not fitting to expect me to treat you like teachers. I feel like you guys want to play pretend. -Darkfrog
::We're talking in circles.  I think we've both had productive thoughts on this matter.  How do you feel about taking a break for a while? -Darkfrog24
:::Do you mean &quot;No, I don't agree that new comments from reviewers are good to receive, because I do not believe them&quot;? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:09, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::(I do not mind taking a break. Whenever you are ready just let me know and we could explore the topic again.) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:00, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::It means I think of you guys as colleagues.  Sometimes I'm right.  Sometimes you're right.  It means &quot;live your life so as to avoid negative reviewer comments&quot; is not my goal here on Wikinews and not something I'm willing to dedicate large amounts of time and energy to doing. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:38, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::I have problems with the thought of taking a break ''and continuing to write articles''. This involves your continued interaction with reviewers. In my opinion it needs to be adjusted, and can not continue in its current form.
::::::
::::::If you want to take a break from this discussion, I recommend you to also take a break from news writing. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:12, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::No.
::::::::I'll write drafts when I feel like writing drafts.  I'll gnome when I feel like gnoming.  If you don't think my drafts are fit for publication, don't hit &quot;publish.&quot; If reviewing my work is not something you see fit to do with your time, then don't review my work. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:28, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Reviewers may postpone review of articles whose authors are uncooperative, and this may decrease the chances of publication. Would you agree? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:48, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::No, reviewers should not move articles from &quot;review&quot; to &quot;disputed&quot; just because the drafter didn't say &quot;Yes, master.&quot; That would be disruptive.  They should just go work on a different draft.
::::::::::What did you want me to say, &quot;Oh, Master Acagastya, I can see the 5Ws right there where I wrote them, but you ''say'' they're not there, so MY EYES MUST BE BROKEN!  MY MEMORY MUST BE BROKEN!&quot;
::::::::::I even ''went back and checked'' before I posted to make sure I wasn't being too hard on the guy. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:00, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Reviewers may postpone review -- leave the article in the review queue, untouched -- if its author is uncooperative. Would you agree? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::I find it disturbing that you refer to &quot;not obeying the reviewer's whims&quot; as &quot;uncooperative.&quot; That suggests that the drafter owes the reviewer &quot;cooperation&quot; in the form of mindless obedience, and the drafter does not.  I feel like if I don't contradict you here, you'll take it as tacit consent to being placed in that box. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:32, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

=== Continued ===
I'm continuing my replies here because the indent is getting to be too far and outdenting will look weird since there are threaded replies below this particular discussion.

Darkfrog24, your last comment regarding me was &quot;The action I attribute to you there is the claim that I was pushing boundaries.&quot; However, this is not correct. You originally said &quot;A third party speculates that [you] broke [a rule] on purpose&quot;, and then you later commented that &quot;The 'third party speculates I broke it on purpose' refers to Ca2James claiming I was pushing boundaries.&quot; These two comments link breaking rules with pushing boundaries, and this is what I was responding to: my comment about pushing boundaries wasn't about breaking a rule. Linking the two inaccurately summarized my comment. Do you see this? [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 18:39, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

:A third party saying I did this-and-that is a sort of thing that happens.  It's a category that I feel your &quot;you were pushing boundaries&quot; fits into.  It's like you said &quot;turquoise&quot; and I said &quot;blue.&quot; At my next comment, when I used your name, I did say &quot;turquoise.&quot;
:Your opinion is that I was pushing boundaries.  My opinion is that saying I was pushing boundaries is like saying I broke rules.  I have not said anything about you that is worse than what you've been saying about me.  If it is your position that I should look left and right and take my cues from what everyone else is doing, kindly observe that I've been doing that the whole time.
:Either we all play a little rough around here and everyone must toughen up or we must all behave with delicacy, but the idea of &quot;I may speak roughly/imprecisely to you but you must speak delicately/precisely to me&quot;&amp;mdash;and I think it's fair to say that this conversation is ''at least'' adjacent to that idea&amp;mdash;is something I don't hold with. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:00, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
::Your opinion may be that pushing boundaries is the same as breaking rules but it is not my opinion and it is definitely not what I actually ''said''. To me it looks like you are holding me responsible for something I didn't say, and that I've further clarified I didn't intend or say. That's not fair. My position is to ask you to hold me accountable for what I do say but not for what I didn't say or what you're reading into it. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 20:44, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:::And I wasn't pushing boundaries.  Hold me accountable for what I do and not what you are reading into things.  We shall both speak delicately then.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:49, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

== Re: [[Talk:U.S. pipe bombing suspect makes first court appearance]] ==

Tips:

* For court hearings the first paragraph needs to specify the orders made by the Judge.
* The motions and submissions by the parties to a court case are also important and need to be as close to the top of the article as practically possible.
* [[Wikinews:Etiquette]] requires not labelling people, like &quot;that rude (person)&quot; in a passing remark.
* There is a discussion of whether the freshness expires on midnight or on the time the event occurred. (My current believe is 'on midnight', however the discussion is ongoing and I do not know of its outcome.)
* The first paragraph may be too long. It only needs to answer the 5Ws and if there is another thought which is not required for such an answer, it needs to be moved to the next paragraph. ([[WN:IP|This]] mentions the first paragraph is 2-3 sentences, I believe.)

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:01, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

When someone says to me &quot;Don't you know how to read?&quot; I'm going to call that person rude.  I notice you didn't go to the anon's talk page to tell him or her to knock it off.  Why talk to me and only me about this?
I think you need to stop posting on my talk page for a while.  You're being unnecessarily aggressive with me, probably because we just had a big long discussion in which I repeatedly said &quot;no&quot; to you.  You need to let your annoyed-with-being-told-no tank drain for a bit, and so do I. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:08, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

:I will leave a message to Acagastya at the appropriate time after I have collected enough information and processed it and have created a sensible response to it. I have not forgot about it, please do not feel singled out.
:And yes, Darkfrog24, the discussion is a bit tiring. I'm sorry about that! These numerous questions are a natural part of someone digging deeper into a disagreement looking for its core points, and are actually ''aimed at finding agreement''. Some people are a bit better at this process than I am, which may make it less daunting. :) 
:And I think '''''it is ''important'', and needs to be prioritised over draft writing'''''. Can we try another venue -- perhaps at live chat, 
:{{channel|wikinews}}:
:and see whether it works better? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:26, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::It's late at night here for me.  I am tired, and I don't want to live chat.
::I don't think it needs to be prioritized over draft writing, but I can't stop you from not writing drafts if you don't want to.  It's a volunteer project.  Do what makes you happy.
::I've been in lots of long, sticky conversations on Project Wiki, and sometimes it's best to just let everyone have their say but then let the information sit in your head for a while. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:30, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Are you sure about this priority?

It surprises me when people prefer to bear with reviewers being rude towards them, and then complain about it. Seems like bearing with it or complaining about it aren't effective solutions. 

Are you willing to try some other solution? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:04, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Important point: I promise to '''not bother you about this topic again until you ping me and ask'''. (I understand it that you are not going to call people rude 'n' things (even if they are) anymore, so that I will not need to leave any more messages here about etiquette.) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:06, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:I only read reviewer comments when I'm feeling sufficiently tolerant.
:I am not willing to try any solution that involves subjugating myself. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:09, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

I can have a respectful dialogue with you aimed at bringing reviewers and your expectations to agreement, but you will need to ask for it whenever you are ready. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:17, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
== Some thoughts ==

I think I understand a bit more how you're approaching things here, based on [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;diff=4442850&amp;oldid=4442846 this comment] where you say &quot;When it comes to writing, I just know more than most of you.  Sometimes you guys are right and sometimes you're not.  That's why it's not fitting to expect me to treat you like teachers.&quot; I'm thinking that if you think you know more than most people here about writing, then you can conclude that you have little to nothing to learn and it further follows that reviewers would learn from you.

As someone who knows a lot about writing, you know that it's important to write for your audience, and that there are different rules - both written and unwritten - for each audience. So, for example, technical writing is different from encyclopaedia writing is different from fiction writing is different from news writing is different from Wikinews writing. And you must know that even within one specific type of writing, each company/organization/group/publishing house has its own &quot;house rules&quot; - again, both written and unwritten - and &quot;house culture&quot; (mostly unwritten). What I see happening here is that you're an expert in one audience and subgroup of that audience and are trying to port that expertise and culture over to Wikinews and it's resulting in clashes. That's not to say that you don't bring up good points, because you do sometimes. However, it also seems like you're expecting Wikinews to conform to your expertise and that's not realistic. If you're interested in changing the house culture and house rules here, there are ways to do that but demanding change is not the most effective method. 

There's a secondary thing going on that I think is related to what appears to me to be issues you might have with some authorities. I think I chose the wrong words when I said there was a teacher/student relationship here but I didn't know that you had such strongly negative thoughts about that relationship. Looked at it from your perspective that teachers subjugate students, of course you don't want that. Who would? What I don't know is if you object to the teacher-student dynamic in particular or if your objection is to the broader idea of the situation where the expectation is that writers work with reviewers to learn how to write for Wikinews (one of the unwritten house rules of Wikinews). That writer-reviewer relationship is key to the way this place functions. I think it's fair to say that if a writer isn't willing to engage in the writer-reviewer relationship as practiced on Wikinews, Wikinews most likely isn't the right place for their talents, unfortunately (not that this is a bad thing: every person isn't suited to every place, after all).

I'm putting this out there as food for thought in the spirit of understanding and clarification. I apologize if this post has been insulting because that is not at all my intent. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 18:16, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:You have successfully expressed yourself without insulting me.
:Not &quot;nothing to learn,&quot; but there is a difference between working with a teacher and with a colleague.  What I object to is the expectation that I should take whatever the reviewer says as true without questioning it.  For example, when I want to show someone on Wikinews that I'm right, I provide a source or at least offer to.  I don't expect them to take my word for it.
:The other day, one reviewer said that the 5Ws were missing from my lede.  I checked the lede and they were indeed there.  What am I supposed to say? &quot;Oh thank you, Master, for telling me to believe what you tell me instead of what I can see&quot;? It seems more likely that the reviewer just made a mistake.
:My recent problems on Wikipedia are definitely coloring my experience here.  Over there, I have admins demanding that I bow down and say &quot;I'm a dirty liar.  Water isn't wet; I made that up to hurt people just like Master said.  Never mind that the person I was accused of harassing said I didn't harass him; he's wrong about his own experiences.  How dare I believe what I read in books instead of what you told me? How dare I show you my source and say 'I'm not lying'?  Thank you for punishing me like I deserve, in your wisdom,&quot; and what you guys are doing reminds me of that even though it's not as bad.
:&quot;House rules&quot; are generally ''written down''.  Yes, I'm familiar with the company style sheet.  But when the rules exist only in reviewers' heads, they tend to make things up as they go&amp;mdash;and I don't think they realize they're doing it.  I don't think you guys realize how different you guys are from each other and over time.  Like this idea of &quot;You aren't allowed to put anything except the 5Ws in the lede&quot; that came up yesterday. WHAT?  We do that all the time!  It's not in the written rules, and tons of articles like that have passed review, so it can't be an unwritten rule either.
:I think maybe people are insecure.  I think that if they say, &quot;Hey, I had an idea just now.  The article would be better if we did this,&quot; I'll yell at them or something, so they pretend (or even convince themselves) it was always a rule.  But that just creeps me out.  I'd have to be a time-traveling mind reader to be what you guys seem to want.
:When things like that happen, I feel like people are looking for someone to push around for the sake of pushing someone around. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

== My possible explanation for IP editing by [[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]] ==

Hi Darkfrog24

There are technical reasons for this - not to annoy others or to avoid accountability.

As I understand 
* they have unstable internet 
* they use private browsing mode all the time because there are other people about who could grab the phone and try to use it (and we don't want them to review stuff at wikinews)
* they close the browser every time you look away from the phone, for the same reason
* they do not find screen locking a sufficient security measure. &lt;s&gt;maybe because they may forget to do it. but they do not forget to close the browser. so not sure how that logic works? (I wanted to find this out at [[Wikinews talk:Username]], but didn't succeed)&lt;/s&gt;I guess they are afraid someone sees the security code from behind their shoulder and uses it later

This is a rather complex situation and undoing their edits does not resolve it:
* it does not change the situation above
* it does not motivate them to find a solution, because reverting their edits is not nice and they don't start wanting to help you

Do you have tips about how to find a technically correct solution to this?

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:42, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:When I had to log in from my phone, it wouldn't do tildes (~).  I just typed in &quot;-Darkfrog24.&quot; I've already suggested this on many previous occasions.  Again, I'm not convinced the IP ''is'' Acagastya. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:18, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
== Civilty ==

here is second warning about civily do not label people Darkfrog24, this is uncondiional regardless of what others are doing

https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;curid=964769&amp;diff=4443024&amp;oldid=4443023

If you continue to do this you may be penalised

I am leaving this message in a hope that you succeed at avoiding this sort of thing in the future and we do not need to take any action

[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:27, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:Gryllida, this IP is trolling me, not for the first, second or third time, and I will delete its posts.  Saying &quot;goodbye, troll&quot; is perfectly normal.  I think you feel a little sensitive because of our recent interactions and are looking for something to complain about.
:I think you need to leave me alone for a while. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:32, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::as a sysop I am required to communicate with people who may be breaking policy
::
::counter trolling is offtopic at wikinews and may be penalised [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:34, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::labeling people is not normal in any circumstances nomatter what they are doing
::
::they can come to this page and write 'you are a donkey' still responding by labeling them will be not OK [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::I see no message from you on their talk page telling them to stop labeling ''me'', cursing at me, or calling me names.  You ''only'' talked to me.  Think about why that is.
:::I think you should leave me alone for a while.  Taking a break is also recommended at WN:CIVILITY.  Let your annoyed-with-me-for-telling-you-&quot;no&quot; tank drain. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:32, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Here's their talk page: https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User_talk:103.254.128.86  If you're just a sysop doing your job, and not singling me out in any way, go ahead.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:40, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::: Gryllida addressed Acagastya directly, rather than the IP. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:43, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::That's better than not, I guess.  Thanks for telling me.
::::::I think we should consider blocking that IP address.  If it's not Acagastya it can do him no harm.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:47, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Frankly, if someone calls is cursing and calls me &quot;ignorant&quot; and I gather the good sportsmanship to respond with a joke about Troll Island, I think that's pretty darn good. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:55, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::: Acagastya (that IP seems like him from a simple WHOIS) has a known history of editing under an IP address (and giving 'strange' reasons when asked why). While it's occasionally acceptable, I don't think this behaviour of editing under a IP address should be condoned. [[User:Leaderboard|Leaderboard]] ([[User talk:Leaderboard|talk]]) 20:04, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I think it ''might'' be Acagastya but it could be a friend who's being a little aggressive about supporting his buddy.  That would explain the cryptic answers.  In all the Internet, there must be one or two times when someone's little brother really did do it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:12, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::1) If I am finding something 'not OK' it does not mean I am annoyed
::::::::
::::::::2) I did address them at their account talk page like Pi zero said. Even if I did not do that you would still be required to be civil at all times
::::::::
::::::::3) No amount or extent of abuse is a valid excuse for personal attacks or labels. I re-iterate this because it is important and it is the second time you are demonstrating your opposite understanding. You are welcome to follow your understanding elsewhere where the place allows, but not at Wikinews.
::::::::
::::::::Being civil is an ''unconditional'' requirement.
::::::::
::::::::4) Me leaving the remark here is not singling you out or aggressive. It is a polite and gentle sharing of a point that I find relevant. In delivering it I do not mean to insult your intelligence. You are a unique and clever person and I am not challenging ''that'' point here. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:35, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::To anyone just showing up, Gryllida is reacting to the edit summary &quot;Have fun on your way back to Troll Island. Acagastya, if this is you, log in. If it's not you, this guy's making you look bad&quot; as I deleted a post that contained cursing and other rudeness. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:56, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes, and [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;curid=964769&amp;diff=4443058&amp;oldid=4443057 this now]. Huh?? It is like fishing rod with a piece of sweet cake at the end: fish doesn't eat it; if, rather than figuring out what it ''does eat'', we start screaming and kicking, we may find it ineffective. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:24, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::You mean that I'm singing Disney songs to the IP?  I'm just trying to lighten the mood.  It worked, too.  The trolling stopped.  I had one all ready for Let It Go, too. (''&quot;Sign your post!  Sign your po-ost!  Don't leave 'em blank any mooooooore!&quot;'') [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:16, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::The problem is not with Disney songs, it is a problem with you being confident that your line of thought ('they must sign') is correct and any form of objection to this is not encouraged. 
::::::::::::
::::::::::::You could sing Disney songs to a fish about how it ''should'' eat your cake; yet that would be less effective than giving it an edible worm. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:39, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::So you see it as a problem that I'm deleting the IP's posts at all?  Here's why I'm doing it:  I think this person ''just'' wants to start a fight, and we don't need any help doing that, heh heh.  I don't think they're serious about wanting answers (especially since the answer to their question has been on the article talk page since yesterday).  The best thing to [[WN:E|is show the door to trolls]].  Singing funny songs may even have helped convince this person that they were failing to make me angry.
:::::::::::::If this really were Acagastya, why wouldn't he just say &quot;IT'S ME!&quot;? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:20, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::With unstable internet logging in sometimes does not work, the page just times out. I experience this on my friend's mobile every day (they don't edit wikis from it; somehow they manage to do internet banking there, but only within a meter from the modem, or via cellular data which is expensive).
::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=4443062&amp;diffmode=source] and [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=4443043&amp;diffmode=source] while a bit challenging in meaning contained no personal attacks.
::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::About name calling people, I don't want to speak with  [[WN:AAA]] now. I'd be a lot more happy if you could withdraw the label and apologize to the IP instead. It in my opinion could be a productive and clever thing to do. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:34, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Doesn't matter if those posts contained no personal attacks.  The thing to do with a troll is to not engage.  Trolls don't really want a civilized and serious discussion.  Sometimes they pretend to, but that's just to keep you reeled in so they can make more trouble.  Asking me to apologize would only encourage this person.
:::::::::::::::Acagastya has had plenty of chances to say &quot;That was me the other day&quot; or &quot;that was me this afternoon&quot; when he's back on a stable connection.  He never has. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:43, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Not engaging would require not calling them any name (in text or edit summary). Having done it in both the edit summary and in this message is not consistent with this principle.
::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::I think you have sufficient amount of willpower and thought to not continue this. If this were the case, in my view it would be a big win for you. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:49, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::Tell you what.  When you get trolls on targeting you on your talk page, you decide what to do about 'em.  Singing silly songs may be what made this person give up on trying to make me angry and go away.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:55, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::The problem is not with Disney songs alone, it is a problem with humiliation of that person via the songs and via the word 'troll'. I reckon you want to dismiss them because they seem to want to 'make you angry'. 
::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::Generally it is a bad idea to dismiss people - I know you don't like it when others do it to you. Particularly bad when name calling comes.
::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::I am sure that it is possible for you to take the step forward and avoid the name calling even if the other person seems to be counterproductive. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:07, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::Yes, I'm dismissing them because they seem to want to make me angry. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:10, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
{{outdent}} I hate to insert myself into a particular situation about which I know nothing, but this conversation is actually managing to dominate [[WN:RC]] which is very unfortunate. What I want to say, however, is that these endless discussions are pointless. More is written on talk pages than in articles and that is sad. I am not saying, I have been immune to drama either, but we need to move on. I, too, am not the one to let someone else have the last word, but I never let it stop me from continuing what I want to do on the project. IDK, maybe these words are futile, but the lengths of these discussions seem counter-productive. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 02:33, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:What's WN:RC?  I just get a redirect.
:Are you telling me there's some list somewhere where people look at all changes for the whole Wikinews? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:43, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::No, it is just Recent Changes as in [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges] ... I don't know why the redirect is working the way it is, I assumed it would just show RC. And as far as I know this is as comprehensive as it gets for the &quot;whole Wikinews&quot; ... do you suspect there are invisible changes? --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 02:49, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::No, I mean this is the first I'm hearing that a conversation on my talk page could in any way affect anyone who wasn't here. I've never seen this thing before. &quot;Don't like the conversation?  Well it's not like it's in your face&quot; sort of thing. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:58, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Well, fuck me. I was just trying to diffuse the situation and say it looks unproductive. I am '''not''' saying anything else and I don't want to be dragged into this any further. Sorry, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 03:06, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Seems like you misread me here.  You have nothing to be sorry about.  I was saying &quot;Oh, this is affecting you?  I DID NOT KNOW THAT. I thought anyone who found this conversation annoying just didn't have to be here.&quot; Thanks for telling me. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:10, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::: Fwiw, I suspect RC is veteran Wikinewsies' most common choice for a &quot;home page&quot; on the project.  I certainly use it that way.  It's set up for the purpose, with various important stuff transcluded at the top, especially the {{tl|votings}} template.  There are some possible alternative choices, but the &quot;votings&quot; template is particularly valuable.  Other somewhat plausible candidates for a home base are the project [[Main page|main page]] and the [[WN:Newsroom|newsroom]]; and (at BRS's suggestion) I've been working on an [[User:Pi zero/Archives|upgrade]] to the archives splash page.  But afaik RC is the most popular choice in modern times.  It wouldn't work so well for Wikipedia because there's too much activity to track much via RC; but, well. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:18, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::It doesn't &quot;affect&quot; '''me''' as such, but on a low volume wiki as this is, well, I think you can see yourself how visible it is. On WP it'd pass by in the blink of an eye. On WP it is useless to look at RC, in my opinion, but here I look at it often. It is the best place to see what is going on (and to catch spammers). Well, I have no hurt feelings and I hope you don't either. And I certainly do not mean to curtail your opinions. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 03:24, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
{{od}} Of course that is not the necessary or sufficient condition for qualifying as a veteran wikinewsie, however, just open the RC and you would know the craziness. Spammers might get a free pass, some articles might suffer for the sheer reason of you deciding not to read the complete review comment. (Hm. Darkfrog24 not noticing RC. That sounds similar.)&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:SVTCobra, sorry... With Darkfrog24 being a bit quick to react (I stress here that this is not an aggressive remark - this feature can be positive and useful in some conversations and I am only mentioning it here in the context of RC spam), I guess the conversation could be taken, or at least attempted, to {{channel|wikinews-en}}:where the chat is designed to be real time.
:Darkfrog24, I think you didn't want live chat late evening once but perhaps it may be worth a try any time you are ready later. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 06:17, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

== Wow. ==

Y'know, we all 'work' here for free. Let's please try to remember that, friends. This is ABSOLUTELY nothing more than: ''a news organization''......nothing more and nothing less. People '''can''' and '''do''' get picked on here, admittedly. Darkfrog24.......so....I'm wondering: is there anything ArbComm might do to help out here? --[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 22:27, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:Hi Bddpaux
:
:In my view Darkfrog24 doesn't respond well to authority, if sysops politely approaching about civilty does not result in an immediate apology then I doubt words by arbcom would.
:
:There are some people with whom praise works a lot better than any kind of authority.
:
:----
:
:ARBCOM would probably not engage in the discussion necessary to explore the differences in thinking. 
:
:----
:
:From my personal view there is a few actions ARBCOM could, in theory, take
:
:* recommend blocking Darkfrog24 - unhelpful, last resort
:* recommend that Acagastya, Pi zero and Gryllida do not review articles of Darkfrog24 because he is not content with their tone - this would be bad for draft writing and I suspect that if we have a fourth reviewer come then Darkfrog24 would have difficulties with them as well
:* recommend that Acagastya and Darkfrog24 become civil - this has already been proposed, not sure it would have any merit coming from ARBCOM although it could
:* recommend that Darkfrog24 has a break until the end of the year - doubt it will work, they expressed it above that they do what they wish to do and when they wish
:* recommend that Darkfrog24 reads feedback of all reviewers fully, but I doubt it would work well because 1. it was suggested before 2. he does not even wish to finish reading it in the case when its beginning seems bad ('creepy')
:
:Bddpaux do you see any other helpful things ARBCOM could do? Other than be an independent body whose opinion could possibly be heard better [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:52, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

::That's very nice of you to ask, Bddpaux.  I'm not sure.  This started when a reviewer told me &quot;[Barack Obama and other targets of the pipe bomber] is on the liberal side of American politics&quot; was too biased of a statement to be read in Wikinews' voice, so I suggested that we update WN:NPOV and other written rules to make this clear.
::I fully admit that recent experiences elsewhere on Project Wiki have left me more sensitive to being pushed around and blamed for things that didn't really happen than I otherwise would be. 
::EDIT CONFLICT: In my opinion, Gryllida mistakes the kind of authority that reviewers have here.  Your authority is over ''articles'', not over me as a person.  We just had a long conversation at the Water Cooler about whether I have to treat reviewers as my teachers and be their little student.  I'll repeat what I said there '''&quot;I am a volunteer here.  You are my respected colleagues.  If ever you think that you are right and I am wrong, I will listen carefully to what you have to say, but it is on you to convince me.  I am not your student, not your employee, and not your little bitch.  If you don't think my article is fit for publication, don't hit 'publish.' If you don't want to spend your time reviewing my work, don't spend your time reviewing my work.  You are a volunteer too.&quot;'''
::For example, a reviewer recently claimed that I was required to include the 5W and no other information in the first paragraph of a draft.  Not only is there no written rule that says this, but I've seen many approved articles that include additional information in the lede, so it's not an unofficial or unwritten rule either.  It came out of thin air.  The reviewer, to my perspective, acted like I should have known about it the whole time and obeyed it in advance.  It was not phrased as a suggestion, idea or request.  I'd have to be a mind-reader ''and'' a time traveler.  This is not the only time things like this, &quot;Believe what I tell you, not what you see&quot; have happened.
::I often feel like a reviewer feels like complaining and so goes looking for things to complain about, inventing problems.
::So I ask you this, Bddpaux, when a drafter feels like a reviewer is going on a power trip, what do you think would be the best thing for that drafter to do?  In previous conflicts, I've said what amounted to &quot;Don't talk to me like that&quot; and walked away. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:13, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::You'd be reading the feedback from a colleague whom you trust. Even if they were visibly upset in their remarks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:40, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Yes, but my concern is that if the colleague treats me like a dog, and then I give them what they want, I've encouraged them to do it again.[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:08, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
{{od}} for the record, {{ping|Bddpaux}} the lede thing comes from Darkfrog24's failure to read the review comment completely, jumping to conclusions, and not even parsing the half read comments properly. They demonstrated lack of understanding of inverted pyramid, that the background information needs to be left for relatively lower section of the article, and then start complaining that &quot;it is not written here&quot;, &quot;that is not written there&quot;. Oh, fuck me, as if it was our fault that they do not read the pages or understand basic things about news writing. Just look at the history, when they were busy singing songs instead of attempting to fix the article so that it would be published, for the greater good. Seriously, editors are fortunate if they work in almost comparable timezone as reviewers. Some might not have noticed, but an important monthly activity seems to be pending.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:27, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:Also, a lot of their articles have a massive lizard tail of background. Not necessarily a bad thing, a bit hard to fact check though for me personally
:
:I hope this can all be fixed by adequate communication, let's move it off this page and back to their next article talk page. Let's try to be more illustrative there and more encouraging. I think we can try to do it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 06:41, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::&quot;How do you even know who drafted the article?&quot;--A lot of people, including reviewers monitor the RC. It is quite crucial for any wiki especially when the time is one of the constraints. Also, name of the page creator is displayed on the top of the page. The writing style also hints towards who wrote the article. (I am pretty sure pi would have reviewed at least 350 of my articles, and within a second pi can say that, &quot;It is very likely it is written by acagastya.) I have written a great deal of football match reports and it would not take me a second to see obvious flaws for an article which would lead to a failed review, in order to fix it. It comes from experience, learning the mistakes which I made, which others made by learning from histories, which also helps learning how others think, and work. One needs to gather reputation, and every single thing of how anything was handled is archived in the memory. Yes, we do that. (Feels like Agent Hill was saying that)
:::Acagastya when you fill your review with abuse and talking-down, of course I don't want to read it.  I don't want to encourage you.
:::When the reviewer is careless and complains about problems that don't exist, no I don't feel I should spend any more of my time indulging them. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:02, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::This &quot;abuse&quot; exists in your head which is so busy jumping the conclusion without reading the things. You know what, I am done tolerating this BS that you have been spreading. I really want ArbCom to take this matter.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 13:12, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

===Possible ...not solution but mitigating technique===
::::I've been thinking about this problem.  And I ''don't'' want to tell other people &quot;well just do a ton of extra work to accommodate me.&quot; Gryllida asked something similar of me (the 500-hour research project), possibly just thinking out loud, and I didn't like that.
::::There's a way to mitigate this that would involve ''less'' work!
::::In the past, I asked one reviewer &quot;Talk about the article; don't talk about me.  Say 'I think this article would look better with X' and not 'You didn't do X, so [often followed by assumptions about which character flaw I must therefore have].'&quot; But I just realized it can be taken a step further.
::::I thought &quot;Wait a second.  ''How do you even know who drafted the article?''&quot; The name's not on it.  You'd have to check the page history and look.
::::So would ''that'' work?  Skip that step.  Read the article and then post your review based on the article and not the person.  I think that would make it a lot easier to make things less personal.  How does that fit into your process?
::::We all learned to check the page history of any stub to see if it was Acagastya calling dibs.  This would be less work than that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:07, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::: Reviewing an article without knowing its history would be, well, reckless.  As I've remarked, the whole project infrastructure is tuned to earned reputation of individuals. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:16, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Knowing the author, reviewers say them good things too, like 'yay you learned to format sources' or 'yay you identified a fresh event, that is progress from the last time'. I'm sorry if that's something you have not often experienced. 
:::::
:::::Two examples about relative improvements compared with previous writing.
:::::
:::::1) There has been more than three times of discussion of past tense, that still has not moved. You and the reviewers are doing it differently. This is the source of frustration: you do things your own way, and the burden of changing your approach and motivating you to change it falls fully on the reviewers, they simply get tired. They want '''''more effort toward agreement''''' from you. You don't have to agree with them; but ''some'' form of agreement needs to be reached, so that the perceptions and practices of the two people become identical.
:::::
:::::This want is without insulting your intelligence. You are a great person and the discussion and the expressed frustration is aimed at finding a way to work together.
:::::
:::::Perhaps if you write more slowly it may work better?? Can you time yourself and tell me how quickly you write?
:::::
:::::2) In my personal opinion you have improved in the communication on talk pages, the answers changed from 'I do not have time, please change it yourself' to something useful like 'this is from my radio station' or 'I have fixed this'. I like this. I found we were able to collaborate on draft writing a few times. I appreciate this. I hope this works well in the next ones too. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:20, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Let this idea kick around in your heads for a day or two.  Sometimes I think I can't do something or that it's incompatible with my system, but then it doesn't seem so bad. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:22, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I of course not mind some thinking...
::::::::
::::::::&lt;small&gt;Side remark in small print: Perhaps 'our heads' would be less condescending.. this reply reads like we need to think about it for a day or two but you don't. That makes me feel singled out. :-(&lt;/small&gt; [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:25, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm sorry.  I didn't mean to make you feel that way.  I did mean &quot;your&quot; because I'm trying to convince you.  I already think that my own idea is good.  But I suppose you mean I might not like it so much after a day or two?  Sure.  That could happen.  I'll let it kick around too. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:29, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Oh thanks Darkfrog24, I really appreciate this remark. It is such a kind move.
::::::::::
::::::::::I mean perhaps, in addition to me thinking about your proposal in my head, you could also think about it -- both &quot;as is&quot; and in the context of my response. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:37, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
== Re: [[US: Missouri police announce they are investigating Danye Jones's death as suicide]] ==

Tips:
* I edited the story to make it more balanced, by adding police's excuses for their decision.
* I edited for inverted pyramid, splitting the &quot;this is under investigation, lots of family members were in the room on October 17&quot; quote into two.
* I shortened the paragraphs: one thought, 2-3 sentences per paragraph.
* I struggled to clarify the 'black' and 'white' thing for international audience. I found it unclear. One reviewer remarked the presentation was biased.
* Agreement on verb tense was not reached, which resulted in some reverts.
* You removed attribution for the para about lynching, commenting &quot;It's in most of the history textbooks that cover the period.&quot;.
* Does &quot;police announced that&quot; in headline accurately describe the press interviews?
* One of the authors wanted to add British spelling, but [[Wikinews:Style_guide#Spelling|this was unnecessary]].

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:16, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
::In our travels on this article, you said you wanted to say &quot;what kind of black they were.&quot; What did you mean?  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:32, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
:::I meant their ethnicity (as written in passport). [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:24, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
::::U.S. passports don't include ethnicity, but if you mean what does the government officially call people in general, what they'd put on their census form would be &quot;'''Black or African American''' – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.&quot;[https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html] By the same standard, the police officer would be just &quot;white.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:38, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
== Continued discussion ==

({{ping|Pi zero|Gryllida|Darkfrog24}} I thought I'd continue this discussion from [[Talk:Satellite_photos_show_North_Korean_missile_sites_going_strong#Suggestions]] here as this part of the discussion isn't about the specific article)

{{hidden2 |1=Previous discussion copied from [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Satellite_photos_show_North_Korean_missile_sites_going_strong&amp;oldid=4445848 article Talk page] for reference 
|2= 
 :::::{{u|Gryllida}}, my impression is that when {{u|Darkfrog24}} says &quot;If you &lt;think this thing&gt;, then go ahead and change it&quot; (which is basically the form of the two sentences you're referring to, above), they're essentially saying &quot;I don't have a problem with &lt;this thing&gt; and don't think your problem with it requires change, but I won't stop you from changing it.&quot; It's less a request for help and more of a shrugging of the shoulders and saying &quot;I don't agree with you, and won't change it, but won't stop you if you want to change it yourself.&quot; [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 21:39, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::Thanks for sharing the additional sources, Ca2james. Really impressive! I have difficulty thinking in the correct dimension for foreign articles ... something to work on.
::::::
::::::I guess your interpreatation is good, but we can just say &quot;I don't agree with you [and here is why]&quot;.  This could be followed by a constructive conversation and reaching agreement. A great thing.
::::::
::::::The other half, &quot;'', and won't change it, but won't stop you if you want to change it yourself.''&quot;, is a way to say &quot;I don't want to reach agreement here&quot;. That appears to be counter collaborative and appears to be [[:wikt:shun|shunning]] the discussion. Would you agree? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:40, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::::I think for {{u|Darkfrog24}}, it's less a case of &quot;I don't want to reach agreement&quot; and more a case of thinking that reaching agreement isn't necessary. From what Darkfrog24 has said before, I think they see others' comments as preferences, not requirements, and unless Darkfrog24 feels strongly about something, won't argue about it... but won't change it, either. I think this approach happens in part because Darkfrog24 does not recognize any person as having authority here; they see only written pages as being the sum of all authority on Wikinews and if something isn't written down, it must not be a rule and is therefore a preference. To me this approach does seem uncollaborative, partly because it ignores the fact that writers with more responsibilities on Wikinews know more about how to write for Wikinews. Also partly because this approach looks to me like Darkfrog24 is demanding that everyone does things Darkfrog24's way without making any compromises towards a middle ground or suggesting change (rather than demanding it be done). [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 23:56, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::::: The only-if-written-down thing is a factor.  There's also a difference of thinking mode, that can cause some things that ''are'' written down to not be fully understood (I mean, in some cases where those who wrote it thought in a different mode than the person reading it).  There's also something somewhat elusive to do with individual responsibility.  It's related to the more straightforward matter of commitment to the ideals of the project; that's more straightforward because there is a significant problem, to do with those earlier points, of not getting across what the ideals of the project ''are'', without which there naturally wouldn't be commitment to them. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:31, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::The word &quot;help&quot; has connotations of power dynamics in which I do not wish to engage.  That is all I meant by that.  Also, the first part of Ca2James' interpretation is correct: You're proposing changes that I don't think are necessary but don't think are bad either.  If you want to make them, go ahead.  If you don't, then don't.  But I will spend my limited Wiki time on things I think are more important.
:::::::::''if something isn't written down, it must not be a rule and is therefore a preference'' No, that is not the only thing I use to distinguish necessary from unnecessary changes.
:::::::::''Wikinews know more about how to write for Wikinews'' This is the core issue.  I've had a lot of time to observe things on this site, and review decisions change from reviewer to reviewer and even within the same reviewer on different days.  The decisions seem to have to do with on-Wiki social dynamics and supposed hierarchies.  Gut feelings, not core principles.  The reviewers don't look like they know what they're doing, so I might as well read the AP Style Guide, take my cues from credentialed professionals, write something that looks good and compliant with Wikinews principles to me, and throw the dice.  People who want something to complain about will look until they find it.  Complaining is fun.
:::::::::As for wanting other people to do things my way, I can't force anyone to talk to me like a colleague, but if anyone talks to me as if I were their subordinate, I reserve the right to disengage.
:::::::::The middle ground I see, Ca2James is &quot;I'll write a draft and if you don't want to review it, then don't.  I'm a volunteer here but I recognize you are too.&quot; But oceans have many islands.  If you see another middle ground, go ahead and point it out.  You are my colleague and I am listening. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::So the problem with ''this specific article'' is that you think it's propaganda?  And not so much the facts themselves but the fact that these newspapers chose to give space to those facts rather than to some other story?  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::As for &quot;shunning,&quot; work picked up.  That's all. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:17, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::: Cause and solution are separate concerns here, and the practical concern ought to be finding a solution... but nothing useful will be served by blaming the problem on an imagined social hierarchy of people making stuff up.  At the heart of the matter &amp;mdash;I've no longer reasonable doubt&amp;mdash; you don't grok the core principles, leaving you to mis-perceive &quot;gut feelings, not core principles&quot;.  Worse, I don't think the core principles are ''going'' to come naturally to you; they belong to a mode of operation that dominates on Wikinews but isn't your natural mode.  Making Wikinews an uncomfortable fit for you, and the practical question is how for you to operate smoothly in the Wikinews environment.  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:26, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Emperor's New Clothes, Pi zero.  You keep claiming there's something here that I can't see and I ''would'' see it if I weren't so stupid/whatever.  Regardless of whether ''you're'' using it that way, it's a manipulative tactic to get people to play along.  I've been here for years with eyes wide open.  Maybe you're describing a system that ''used'' to be there, and I don't see it because it's not there now.
:::::::::::::The social hierarchy I'm talking about is reviewers vs drafters.  When I happen to know better than the reviewer and say &quot;Actually, it works like ''this'', and here's the book/websites/examples to show ''I'' don't expect to be obeyed as an individual,&quot; everyone gets all &quot;how dare you.&quot; This is not consistent with improving articles. It is consistent with a social system.
:::::::::::::Here's how I fit in here: I'll draft articles.  If you don't want to review them, then don't.  If you want a change, consider doing it yourself. I will not grudge you being selective with your time. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: There is something that I see happening over and over.  Specific vs. general.  I say something like &quot;Professional journalists did X, so let's do X&quot; and I get &quot;no no no stop this emphasis on professional journalists&quot; without any comment on X or whether it's right for the article.  It makes it look like the reviewer is trying to break me of the habit of preferring professional journalists to the point where they don't care if doing so would make a better article.  Then we end up arguing about the professional vs. amateur principle rather than looking at X. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:38, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::: I do try to put things less prescriptively than that, which... unfortunately, tends to play into the way my cognitive mode favors putting things, rather than yours, so my efforts tend not to work out so well.  However, specific versus general (as a reflection of preferred cognitive modes) is, indeed, a pretty good description of what I've been getting at, so there's a sign we're seeing the same things happening, after all. &lt;p&gt; To avoid a snowballing effect (and the associated likelihood for a feedback loop), I'll just remark on one point (that I found particularly hurtful).  My approach is kind of the ''opposite'' of manipulative: it's a consequence of my impulse to speak honestly even when it's apt to be counterproductive to my own goals (comparison/contrast invited with the current US President).  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:58, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::: I enjoy piecing things out like this.
:::::::::::::::: My intention with &quot;maybe ''you're'' not using it that way&quot; and &quot;consistent with X and not with Y&quot; was to acknowledge that it might not have been your intent or your conscious intent.  But most of the time, when people say what you're saying, that's why. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:08, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::: There are lots of nuances to this, but, I point out that the likelihood of encountering that sort of manipulation is a quality of the community.  Two factors make it less prevalent amongst en.wn natives (compared to, say, &amp;lt;brr&amp;gt; en.wp): we're a small community, and, especially, the sort of folks apt to be particularly interested in journalism are also apt to particularly dislike being manipulated.  (On the general topic of manipulation, a link I've hung on to is [https://www.theonion.com/humanity-surprised-it-still-hasn-t-figured-out-better-a-1819576640]; though I generally get stuck trying to identify some of the faces shown at the top.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
}}

When Gryllida mentioned &quot;shunning&quot;, she wasn't referring to you taking time to respond but the way your attitude conveys a &quot;I don't want to reach agreement here&quot; thought. 

I think there are a couple of things here that are leading to issues between Wikinews and you. One is that Wikinews has historically been, and is set up to be, a project with deep underlying principles into which rules (written and unwritten) and customs (written and unwritten) are slotted in. For someone like me, who needs to understand how an overall structure fits together before I can follow instructions, that's awesome, and when I see differing interpretations of certain rules or customs, I can still see how those differing interpretations fit into the whole structure. I know that there are other people, and I think you might be one of them, who don't need or care about the overall structure and who want defined rules; any differences in the way those rules are expressed appear to be different rules (or individual preferences). It must be frustrating and a bit incomprehensible to be in this position where you don't think that way and everyone else is saying to think that way.

Another thing is that you think you know more than everyone else. As I've said before, you might know more about things outside of Wikinews but that does not mean that you're an expert here. ''You're not an expert here and you don't know more than everyone else about how to do things here''. And just because other places do something a particular way does not in any way imply that Wikinews does things that way. I can see that this would be very frustrating for you, because from your perspective there are very few firm rules and people keep talking about principles that don't matter. So you try to bring in external rules and people just say &quot;nope, those won't work here because their principles aren't Wikinews principles&quot;. 

I can also see that all this talk about how you're not fitting in here would be annoying and maybe a little demoralising and you just want to get on with your work on your terms. In this way, you don't seem willing to compromise or find true middle ground (&quot;I'll draft articles.  If you don't want to review them, then don't. If you want a change, consider doing it yourself.&quot; is not finding middle ground or trying to fit in because it doesn't involve any compromise on your part). If I was in your situation I'd feel frustrated and maybe a little attacked and definitely backed into a corner; when that happens I know I get stubborn and inflexible. But the thing is, you trying to do things on your terms is disruptive for everyone else and is a time-sink. Your articles show up in the newsroom and can't be ignored. Besides, it's obvious that you have some skill when it comes to writing and Wikinews would be so much better if your skill could be applied within Wikinews principles. It's frustrating for everyone else to see that you're so skilled and yet so unwilling to follow even the rules that are spelled out (like the article structure one, which is a rule that you don't follow).  

I do think it would be good to articulate more of the rules on Wikinews for writers who don't want/need to see the overarching structure and to make it easier for them to contribute, but this project will always be more big-picture-like than rules-oriented. That said, demanding change isn't going to make change happen. Suggesting specific changes might, if you're willing to work to understand why those changes might/might not be adopted.

So where does that leave everyone, other than frustrated and annoyed? At an impasse, I think. But I don't know where to go from here. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 18:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:You seem to mistake me in a few places, Ca2James, and you don't seem to see the compromises I've made.
:I was fine with the system you're describing at first.  When I was the new guy, I did as I was told as a new guy should.  But that was years ago.  I kept my eyes open and had my own experiences, and of course I prefer what I've seen myself to what others tell me.
:Yes, there are times when I know better than the reviewer, but I don't expect anyone to just take my word on that.  You will notice that whenever that happens, I can produce a source or example.   Even if the reviewer is right nine times out of ten, they reject the tenth.  It seems you guys care more about making drafters obedient than about making articles good.  Scroll up to the conversation with Gryllida.  G didn't happen to know that &quot;what kind of black&quot; isn't a thing in American public life, at least not in a way that concerns an article about Ferguson.  Slavery erased national lines and produced a new cultural group that doesn't have as direct a connection to the old country as a German-American or Chinese-American would have.  It's no great thing if she needs a little proof, but then take it and move on.
:I keep hearing, &quot;The rules, which are invisible, mean ''you'' do whatever ''I'' say and do it NOW!&quot; and &quot;Don't believe what you see; believe what I tell you.&quot; That's inherently suspect. &quot;Children who want to play school&quot; is the nice way to put it.  People go to work and say &quot;yes boss&quot; all day and now they want a place where ''they'' give the orders, and you're not happy that I don't want to play pretend.
:You say you want me to be a student.  Teachers are teachers because they know significantly more than their students do.  You keep ''telling'' me that you know better than I do, but you really don't seem to.  In the real world, this issue is solved with credentials and degrees and CVs.  On Wikipedia it's sidestepped (at least when things are working) with &quot;You're not deferring to ''me''; we're both deferring to this professionally published source.&quot; So you believe you know better than I do.  How would you go about establishing this?
:I don't see &quot;Don't review my drafts if you don't want to&quot; as a demand for change.  I see it as passive.  I see it as &quot;I'm not telling you what to do.&quot;
:Here's something that people have been dancing around: Why ''couldn't'' you just skip past a draft that you don't happen to want to work on?  I've skipped collaboration on drafts after checking that Acagastya made them.  Is it because there aren't so many drafts these days?  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:30, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

::I am not sure how to be anyone's collegue without receiving help and rewarding people for offering it.
::1) When you agree with their suggestion you -- while implement it -- don't say thanks and don't seem to show signs of appreciating it. An example:
:::*&quot;''The center also identified 13 sites suitable for short- and medium-range ballistic missiles, &lt;u&gt;but there may be as many as 20&lt;/u&gt;''&quot; (''' not a fact - attribution missing ''').&lt;!--CSIS--&gt;  (me)
::::*Attribution is not missing.  See &quot;the center.&quot; (you)
:::::*Yea, &quot;''The center also identified 13 sites suitable for short- and medium-range ballistic missiles, &lt;del&gt;but&lt;/del&gt;&lt;ins&gt;saying&lt;/ins&gt; there may be as many as 20.''&quot; had it in Wikinews's own voice, the new version is much better. Thanks for the change.  (me)
::Another example:
:::which activist (Acagastya)
::::&quot;McKinnies is a member of the activist group {{w|Lost Voices}}.&lt;!--Rolling Out--&gt; &quot; added to article by you (15:11)
::::Because the activist isn't famous and the readers aren't likely to have heard of her, calling her &quot;an activist&quot; is more likely to be useful than using her name. I think the title's already a little long, but you could say &quot;Ferguson activist&quot; or &quot;Lost Voices activist.&quot; (your reply, at 15:42)
::2) When you disagree, you write &quot;I do not want to reach agreement or to receive your help here; do it yourself as a separate contributor if you wish&quot;. This is an euphemism for &quot;I do not care&quot; and is dismissive and discouraging.
::Is this really a great way to be a collegue? 
::Is the act of receiving a suggestion and thanking people for it also a part of 'you are an authority' thing which you dislike?
::I call for an improvement.
::--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:34, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::If you feel I'm not being a good colleague, then I will absolutely listen closely.
:::&quot;Help&quot; is a loaded word because it has to do with power dynamics.  The person doing the helping has all the power and the person asking for help has, in however large or small a way, offered to submit to them.  So no, I don't want you to think that I asked you for help because we already have problems with power dynamics here.
:::Yes, the suggestions are part of the power dynamic thing that bothers me so.  You've picked up on that correctly.
:::Okay, here's the question then.  Why ''didn't'' you just do it yourself from the first?  Why did it get to the point of telling me to do it so that I answered &quot;Go ahead and do it yourself&quot;?  That would have taken less time and effort than telling me to do it for you.  I don't call you over and say &quot;Gryllida, fix those commas.&quot; I just see a misplaced comma and I fix it.  Then we ''don't'' have a big long talk about it.
:::&quot;Ah, but if I do too much it would disqualify me from being a reviewer.&quot; Yes it would.  But what's so bad about that?
:::It's not that I don't care.  It's that I don't mind. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:50, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Fixing things can be harder than asking a question at the talk page. That's why I don't always do it.
::::Not minding is another form of not caring. A caring approach is that of devoting your full earnest attention to the precious suggestion, with a will to utilize it to its maximum both now and in the future.
::::--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:59, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Yeaaaah, but ''is'' the suggestion precious, though?  And is it really a suggestion?
:::::A lot of the time, I'm left with the impression that the reviewer didn't read the article or at least was determined to find something to complain about before they even clicked in.  You personally have demanded I add material that was already there, for a more clear-cut example.  You have to acknowledge that it ''looks'' like you just felt like making suggestions/giving orders/complaining for the fun of doing so and not because it was necessary. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:22, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::What is the difference between a demand and a suggestion? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 21:53, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::It's in what you expect the other person to do.
:::::::How do you feel when the person doesn't do what you say?  Or if they say, &quot;Do it if you want.  I don't mind but I don't think it's a big deal&quot;?
:::::::How do you feel when the person discusses the demand/suggestion rather than just acting on it?
:::::::That's the difference that's relevant to us, I think. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:57, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Wouldn't a discussion be welcomed in either case? I think there is some other difference. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:41, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Let me think on it a bit.
:::::::::The problem is not suggestions in and of themselves.  It's the power dynamic. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:44, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::I'm trying to write articles without tacitly consenting to being treated like a subordinate and it looks like you're trying to collaborate without either being creepy about it or tacitly surrendering anything ''you'' think is important.  I can respect that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

::I wrote my post because I thought that if I could empathize with you and try to understand your point of view, we (you, me, and everyone else, not just you and me) could figure out some kind of solution to the problems that: a) your work doesn't meet Wikinews standards; and b) in response to questions or criticisms of your work, you come across as defensive, dismissive, uncollaborative, and arrogant; and c) you apparently don't see a problem with any of that. But now I think that if you don't see a problem with your own behaviour, you're not going to change it, and that no amount of explaining or empathy or examples or encouragement will change the current situation. So everyone is still frustrated and at an impasse. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 18:03, 15 November 2018 (UTC) 
:::You're relatively new to this discussion Ca2James.  I've had reviewers who were a lot more aggressive than Gryllida.  The &quot;You're attacking me because someone kicked ''you'' in the head today and now you want to take a swing at someone else&quot; was a lot more blatant.  That's left me very unwilling to encourage it, even on smaller levels.  I'm not here to be anyone's emotional receptacle.  I've had reviewers scream at me for misinterpreting sources that they didn't bother to read first.  I've had reviewers demand that I add content that was already there.
:::When a reviewer tells me to make a change that doesn't really need making, I have three options 1) Argue with them and tell them why my original version is better (which sometimes ''is'' the right thing to do, like if the reviewer wants to insert mistakes), 2) perform the overt action of making the change, which is equivalent to saying &quot;Yes, Master!  Yes, Master! Your dirty, stupid slave obeys!!&quot; or 3) Say &quot;Okay, go ahead if you want to&quot; and not make a big deal out of it.  #3 here ''is'' the middle ground.
:::You should ask yourself why there are so few drafters. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:16, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::: Alternatively, ask someone who's been here for a really long time and has made a particular study of what makes the project tick.  The project has been shrinking pretty much since it was created, long before review was adopted.  The adoption of review is barely visible as a small squiggle in the curve.  Although a major cause, I'm confident, has been persistent dissing of Wikinews both from a powerful subcommunity of Wikipedia and from upper echelons of the Foundation, I still hope we can reverse the trend through local measures, keeping in mind we're doing something here that's genuinely new and genuinely difficult. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:50, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
::::I may be inexperienced but I am a ''lurker''. I've read most of the discussions on this site, and I'm at least partly familiar with what's been going on. I disagree with your characterizations that a reviewer &quot;screamed&quot; at you, or that reviewers are attacking you for some unknown personal reason, or that you're anyone's emotional receptacle: what I see and have seen is that you have read things (particularly emotions and motivations) into the situations that weren't there. What I also see is that you've assumed that your reading of the situation was the right one and have behaved rudely in return, where a better (more productive, more collaborative) approach would have been to ''ask'' if the other person meant what you think they did. 
::::That said, I do agree that a reviewer was unnecessarily rude to you, and that this should not have happened. However, that particular experience does not justify or excuse your current behaviour. I get the need to protect yourself, I really, really do, but that's not the only thing you're doing.
::::I know reviewers don't always read things closely, and sometimes they ask for things that don't make sense. So what? You don't always read things closely, and you have put outright wrong things in your writing. No one is perfect, but lack of perfection in someone otherwise knowledgeable does not imply that the person's thoughts should be automatically ignored.
::::The problem with your second paragraph is the initial assumption that a reviewer is asking you to change something that (you think) doesn't really need changing. That's a faulty assumption, and the way forward is to ''not assume'' that the thing doesn't need changing, and to ''ask'' why they think it needs changing. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 22:53, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Of course I think my own reading of the situation was the right one.  Otherwise my reading would have been something else.
:::::If I feel someone's pushing me around, the best thing to do is ''not'' to ask them.  It's to not engage.
:::::&quot;someone otherwise knowledgeable&quot; Yeaaaaah.  But ''are'' they, though?  A big part of this is that I'm just not convinced that the reviewers know better than I do.  You seem to want me to assume that the reviewer is always right and I'm always wrong because they're them and I'm me.  I'm not going to do that.  I'll listen and if you want to show me proof or examples, great, but that's it.  But the fact that people usually don't do the same when I have proof or examples to show makes the whole system suspect.
:::::I think we made progress on the last Korea article.  There was a lot of &quot;This looks good because it's in professional publications&quot; vs &quot;No no no!  Don't listen to professionals; obey ''me''&quot; going into a long conversation about the role of professional publications, but someone ''finally'' answered my question about &quot;What is it that you think the professionals are doing wrong?&quot; Some of you guys thought it was propaganda.  ''FINALLY''.  Instead of bludgeoning each other over the principal of whether I should value a pro journalist over one of my fellow Wikinews amateurs, we should have been talking about specifics. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:08, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::: &amp;lt;pi zero drops in&amp;gt; That doesn't altogether match what I saw.  You make claims here about being told to assume others are always right, and subservience/obedience, but you've been told [[WN:never assume|'''not''']] to assume things, you haven't been told others are always right, and it's not about subservience/obedience.  If a reviewer gives a warn-off that something's problematic (at least, in most obvious situations where this would happen), it's pretty certain to not make sense to raise a stink about it.  For a simple reason separate from &quot;right&quot;ness or &quot;subservience&quot; or whatever.  A lot of Wikinews practice is about completely circumventing controversy.  If it's worrisome to someone clueful, obliterate the subject of concern, leaving nothing to discuss.  On Wikipedia, one might decide it's more important to stick to one's guns and argue details than to just make the problem go away (though I did once get a barnstar there for making a problem disappear in a puff of smoke), but on Wikinews, making the problem go away is usually better than &quot;winning&quot; an argument about it. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:34, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not repeating exactly what Ca2James said and he isn't repeating exactly what I said.  That's normal for talk pages.
:::::::For the content I mean, I'm not ''assuming'' that the change in question is unnecessary.  &quot;Multiple&quot; vs &quot;several&quot; in the recent article is six to one half a dozen to the other.  I look at it, think &quot;this is a nothing and I don't want to encourage people to think I'm willing to jump around and do their nothings for them.&quot;
:::::::The collective actions of reviewers have led me to believe that this is more about obedience and identity than about writing good articles.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:46, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::: Wikinews is a meritocracy; I've never gotten the impression you'd really internalized that.  Wikinewsies generally have zero patience with silly social games (heck, lots of us are somewhere on the autistic spectrum), but identity (''if'' I'm understanding your use of the term) is key to the whole dynamics of the project, and the more one understands how that works, the less credible it is that the whole active reviewer population of the project, who have been here longer than you, accumulated much more experience here than you have, and been far more immersed in the project than you have been or (truthfully) shown interest in being, would all know less about Wikinews writing than you do. &lt;p&gt; I've had occasion, in some of my own intellectual pursuits, to think my way carefully around the likelihood that I (along with everyone else in a scientific field) am missing some unidentified important factor in a situation.  It's possible, but devilishly tricky, to think one's way around that sort of thing.  When you say the collective actions of reviewers have led you to believe thus-and-such, evidently your ''perception'' of their actions has led you to do so; and if you were missing some important factor in the basis for the reviewers' actions, that would skew how you'd perceive the actions. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:04, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

::::::::::Of course I use my own perception.  You're using yours, aren't you?  The air of &quot;believe what I tell you, not what you see&quot; is part of the problem.
::::::::::No, I don't see that Wikinews is a meritocracy.  You ''say'' it is, but my eyes tell me otherwise.  I see silly social games, as you put it.  Maybe you just don't notice them because they service you.  But they are played at my expense, so I'll skip them.  It's also possible that you're describing a system that was on Wikinews years ago when the group was larger but faded away before I got here.
::::::::::Yeah, you would think that they'd know more about it than I would, but it looks like they don't.  Actions are more consistent with a &quot;I want a place where ''I'' am the boss&quot; model than with any kind of &quot;write the best articles&quot; model. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:15, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

::::::::::: I don't see silly social games on Wikinews because they aren't there. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:28, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::We should both probably call it a night. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:32, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::: Probably.  Sleep well.&amp;nbsp;:-)&amp;nbsp; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:35, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

=== Proposal ===
I have a proposal. 
* If you find someones suggestion useful, implement it; thank them and let them know you have implemented it.
* If you find someone's suggestion useful but you want to ''both'' explain yourself and implement it, thank them and explain.
* If you find someone's suggestion useful but you don't know how to do it, thank them and ask them how to do it.
* If you find someone's suggestion useless, and &quot;[you are] left with the impression that the reviewer didn't read the article or at least was determined to find something to complain about before they even clicked in.&quot;, forget about this feeling for the moment; thank them for looking at the article (or at a part of the article which you think they read); and concisely, without attacking their motivations and without shunning them using the 'do it yourself' technique, explain your point. I bet they will be open to reaching agreement in a non-condescending way, and it will be a positive experience.
To me it seems like these things are 
* balanced and do not involve power dynamics. (They also appear to not involve naming yourself a student and them a teacher, or yourself a slave and them a slave owner.);
* more like a colleague relationship than the current situation.
Does this sound OK to you? If not, please write what looks unrealistic and why.
--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:04, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:(To make it clear: this proposal is non-binding; it is only an experiment that I would suggest you to take for your entertainment if you wish. If you say 'yes', and start working on it, I won't supervise you or boss you around about any successes or failures in this regard.) --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:07, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:Whoa...  Think about a;; that for a second.  You want me to ''thank'' you for making comments?  Whenever I feel like I'm being used as punching bag, you want me to assume that I must be wrong, dismiss those feelings and ''thank you'' for doing whatever it was?  Oho no.
:They are not balanced and they absolutely involve power dynamics.  You're basically saying &quot;Thank me when I tell you what to do, even when I'm wrong&quot; and &quot;When you feel like you're being used as a punching bag, you're wrong.  Now say 'thank you.'&quot;
:Sometimes a comment merits thanks, but most of the time, they're just comments.
:I get that you're trying, but no.  No no no no no.  I figure you're just thinking out loud here, like with the 500-hour research project. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:54, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

I guess that's two separate points, &quot;Thank me when I tell you what to do, even when I'm wrong&quot; is the first (in the cases when you're not being used as a punching bag). Yes indeed. This means you appreciate their attention, and you appreciate it enough to enlighten them gently about what they were wrong with, so that they learn; it also means you welcome their feedback in the future in case they share something useful. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:38, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

&quot;When you feel like you're being used as a punching bag, you're wrong.  Now say 'thank you.'&quot; is the second. How do you define or identify this case to differ it from positive intentions? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:38, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Also people ask questions without telling you what to do in some cases. Can you include this case? They are not always demands, they can be are suggestions. ('In my personal opinion this is biased. I am concerned. Can you clarify it?' as opposed to 'This is objectively wrong and you must fix it now.') --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:40, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

=== Proposal v2 ===
While this is correct that the vast majority of people are idiots ... I would think that being dismissive and complaining are two good ways to create unnecessary hostility.

What about this voluntary non-binding experiment? It is only two little steps away from what you are already doing.

* If a comment is productive:  implement it adding 'per talk' to edit summary
* If a comment seems unimportant or useless: write why
* If the proposed change worsens the story (there is no way to satisfy the concern without making the story inaccurate): write why and emphasize that you currently oppose the change
* In the last two cases do not add 'you can fix it if you like', it is implied (it is the default) and may seem like you do not want to engage into further discussion.
--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:38, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::This doesn't seem so different from what I've been doing, with one exception: Unimportant and useless comments, though this is even truer of hostile comments, are best left unanswered.  Best not to make a big deal out of it.  Just disengage. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:58, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::I guess you could ignore hostile comments if you wish. Would the proposed way of doing things be OK with you for not hostile comments? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::I love that you're processing this and I don't mind that you're using my talk page to think out loud but I don't feel like committing to a plan like this at this time.  You have successfully communicated that I hurt your feelings and did not foster the impression that I see you as a respected colleague. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:29, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for seeing me like that I guess. I really appreciate it.
:::::
:::::How you say, the plan with 'ignore hostile comments completely' added at the end already corresponds to current situation, but I disagree. I think instead of ignoring them you currently leave a defensive remarks. Is this difference the reason why you don't want to commit to the plan at this time? Or it is something else.
:::::
:::::The reason why I ask this is because the dismissive remarks terrify me and require a disproportionate amount of emotional effort to handle to maintain a conversation. I suspect this situation may be similar with some of the other contributors who tried to speak with you previously. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::Your comments were less hostile than the ones I'm thinking of.  But yes, I did tell that person &quot;Don't talk to me like that,&quot; now that I remember. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:29, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Ya, ignoring means don't tell them &quot;don't talk to me like that&quot; and also do not discuss article content with them and also do not dismiss them.
:::::::
:::::::I mean simply do not reply in any manner whatsoever to comments which look hostile and make you feel abused. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:34, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I will do what seems best to me at the time.  I'm a volunteer here.  I'm not here to take abuse in silence. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 06:06, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I am not sure what to offer here, perhaps when dealing with seemingly intentional abuse it is time to call it a conflict and follow the steps of [[WN:DISPUTE|dispute resolution]] (of which the first step is avoidance, but not the last). Perhaps that can be a good solution? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 06:20, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Maybe.  We'll see.   Hey, maybe there won't be any hostile comments to find out. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 06:25, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
== Qapla' ==

{{ping|Pi zero|Blood Red Sandman|Ca2james|Ottawahitech|Robertinventor}}
I just got unblocked from Wikipedia.  It's a long story with a lot of twists and turns but the short version is that it got very ''very'' personal.  Thank you for giving me a place where I could prove that the things that were said about me were never true.  Thank you for being my community, my mysterious, aggravating, funny, productive community.

Enough Federation-style talking about my emotions!  Come taste the bloodwine! [[File:Klingon_trekkie.jpg|left|thumb]]
[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:58, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

: Congratulations.  ([[User:Blood Red Sandman|Blood Red Sandman]]. :-)  --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:12, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
::Thanks.  And now I can check in here more than once a day without that &quot;you've got new messages&quot; heart attack. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:13, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
: Congratulations!! [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 23:01, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
::Some people already started the article about [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Darkfrog24/BPurple Bhupathy's purple frog] with which I'd planned to make my glorious return.  I settled for adding a glorious evolutionary implications section. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:07, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

*I appreciate I'm an ''entire'' year late to this news, but it gave me a big smile. [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 21:50, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|Blood Red Sandman}} Oh dear...  In June I got blocked again.  For doing something that policy explicitly states that I am allowed to do.  When I was told to do it.  Where I was told to do it.  I just sent my appeal in last night. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:53, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
::Sigh. Disappointing; unsurprising. Best of luck. [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 21:57, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:00, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
== Restored comment ==

I've just [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Second_confirmed_death_of_migrant_child_in_custody_of_U.S._border_authorities_this_December&amp;diff=4454524&amp;oldid=4454474 restored] the comment you removed. That comment wasn't particularly troll-like and you don't own the talk page (had it been posted on your talk page of course removing it would have been ok but it was an article talk page). Let third parties remove comments about you, if they judge it necessary, rather than removing the comment yourself. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 22:49, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|Ca2james}} Then I ask you to remove it.  Anon117 is trying to pick a fight and has received too much encouragement already. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:02, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
::No, I won't remove it; as I said, that comment wasn't particularly troll-like (at least to me).  Pinging {{ping|Pi zero}} for input. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 00:08, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
:::Then this is not a two-way conversation any more.  I think this should take place at dispute resolution instead of on my talk page. I waited for you to respond before posting there.  I propose any further discussion take place here:[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Admin_action_alerts#Anonymous_user_being_rude_again] [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:19, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
::::I have posted there. I appreciate that you notified me of the is discussion but I've asked you before to ping me when you talk about me and I'm repeating that request. If you're going to talk about people and their actions, name them and ping them please. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 00:52, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::I did think about pinging you, but I decided against it because that would have required me to use your name in front of third parties, which might have made it look like I was complaining about ''you'' and not about the anon, which might have made other users take sides on a you-vs-me basis.
:::::The anon is trying to start a fight, and that would have been a step toward giving them what they want.
:::::Also, it doesn't ''matter'' which other logged-in user restored the comment that I deleted.  The fact that it was you as opposed to say AZ or Gryllida or Pi zero or BRSandman is not relevant.  It's a distraction. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:00, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
::::::Thanks for explaining your thinking. My view is that the editor who restored the comment (aka me) might need to explain why they'd done so. I'd object less if you'd presented my reasons for restoring the comment but you didn't; you presented the situation as if yours was the only possible view, and leaving my reasoning unsaid implies that it was an invalid reason (which it was not, even if you disagree with it). [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 02:05, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::::No, I did not present it as if my point of view was the only possible one.  Even if I had, it's a signed talk page post, not an article or an RfC opener.  It doesn't have to be neutral.
:::::::The last time I summarized something you did, you said my interpretation was inaccurate.  At least this way what you said, how much, which part, and whether or not to say anything at all was up to you. &quot;[Ca2james] didn't think it was trolling&quot; is not what I would have said. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:13, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Of course you wouldn't have said that I thought it wasn't trolling because you didn't mention trolling in your post. You said the anon was being rude and aggressive in their third post and you tried to delete that post, which I reverted. But when you deleted the post you indicated in your edit summary that you were doing it because you thought the anon was trolling. Being rude and aggressive isn't the same thing as trolling... And conflating the two misrepresents both your deletion and my restoration of the post. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 03:21, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::I said they were trying to pick a fight, which is another way to say, as Oxford Dictionaries puts it, &quot;elicit an angry response&quot;:  Troll: &quot;Make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.&quot;[https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/troll]
::::::::::If you still think that misrepresents anything, then so much the better I didn't attempt to speak for you. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:41, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Yes I suppose that's true (that it's better that you didn't try to summarize my words). And I know it can be difficult to summarize events. (As an aside, although &quot;picking a fight&quot; and &quot;trolling&quot; are similar, they're not exactly interchangeable. A person can pick a fight but not be trolling the other person, and a person can troll someone else without picking a fight with them. (The accusation of trolling tends to be viewed much more seriously than one of picking a fight.) Since you'd used trolling as the reason for removing the anon's post, when I didn't see trolling in the notice board post I didn't think the one summarized the other. Now I know that you thought they were interchangeable.) [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 04:03, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::I think you may be attributing more specificity to both these terms than they really have, but whether you call it &quot;picking a fight&quot; or &quot;trolling,&quot; it's bad, they're not supposed to be doing it, I shouldn't be expected to be the target of it, and we should take steps to get it to stop.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:09, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
{{od}} Maybe I am attributing specificity to these words because I'm looking at not just their dictionary definition (or denotative meaning) the connotative meaning, too. It's like saying that sky blue and turquoise are the same colour: they're similar, for sure, but they're also different and not truly interchangeable.

I think the anon is is expressing themselves in an unnecessarily prickly, rude way. I don't think all their comments are trolling or picking a fight. However, some of their comments, like that &quot;learn to write&quot; one, are totally unproductive and could be called trolling. I agree that you don't deserve the vitriol expressed in that comment and that comments like that should stop. In other words, I agree that the anon has crossed a line, at least with that comment. We may disagree on exactly where the line is or how to describe it but we agree that there is a line and the anon has crossed it. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 04:41, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
== Oops ==

Fortunately nothing too serious happened because I was just starting the review.  Though I did get a weird error when I tried to edit the sources section of the article and it had been moved out from under me. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:07, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
:I thought about it and weighed it against the extra hassle of changing the article title after it's published.  Hm, what had to change among the sources?  I'll give 'er a look. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:49, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
:: The way to go about it, once {{tl|under review}}, is to leave a note on the discussion page. &lt;p&gt; I don't think anything changed in the sources section; I just needed to collect the urls from it. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:18, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
:::At which point I'm likely to get heckled.  Right now I'm brainstorming ways to avoid using collaboration pages. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:55, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
:::: I see nothing objectionable about asking that &quot;US&quot; in the headline be changed to &quot;U.S.&quot; for consistency with the article author's stylistic preference.  Any heckling would not be ''your'' problem to worry about. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:20, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
:::::No I mean the IP is on a roll right now and likely to show up and misbehave.  And yes, as the target of said action, it ''is'' my problem.  To use a metaphor, if someone forms a habit of punching me in the face, even if it's someone else's responsibility to put a stop to it, it is very much my problem.  Ca2james was right about one thing: I can't ''make'' anyone else do what I think is best&amp;mdash;I can suggest and ask and insist, but I can't make you do it&amp;mdash;so I must explore things to do on my own.  Right now, I'm exploring, &quot;if the talk page is unusable, don't use it.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:40, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
::::::There is no equivalence between being punched in the face and having someone use strong language while criticizing you on a wiki.  It does seem you're also misjudging the proportion of strong language to substantive criticism involved, apparently because you're missing the substance.  The latter point is important to interpreting my remark about who would be responsible for dealing with heckling:  this is a situation where, unlike the earlier ones I recall, there seems to be no substantive criticism to be made, so that complaints really would be ''heckling'' in a clear-cut sense. &lt;p&gt; Not using the article talk page for the purpose it exists for is an inappropriate measure, and causes problems for everyone. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
::::::::The cause of these problems is the abusive posts themselves, not that I'm avoiding the person who makes them.  I've already suggested we address this by A) blocking the IPs, B) granting permission to delete abusive anonymous posts, C) collectively giving this person the silent treatment and you've already made it clear you're not on board with any of these, at least not yet.  Now I'm trying D) avoiding this person.  It's more passive than I'd like but E) Darkfrog puts up and shuts up and accepts their role as verbal punching bag is not okay with me.  EDIT: Actually, just walking away ''is'' putting up and shutting up.  Sticking around on the talk page would be F) actively rewarding and reinforcing abusive behavior.
::::::::Pi zero, you don't like it when I don't obey you.  We've been through why I don't several times.  This person is ''pretending'' to agree with you on this point or that so you will let them get away with the way they're acting.  I'm not &quot;missing the substance&quot;; I'm recognizing the true point of the post&amp;mdash;the aggression itself.  It is more important to stop the inappropriate behavior than to address anything that this person has ever included in a post. They were only ever camouflage. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:39, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::You've consistently demonstrated that you don't get the substance of the criticisms, which undermines the credibility of your judgement that the IP is only pretending to the substantive position you appear not to understand; others here who ''do'' understand, consistently perceive the IP's transgressions as a lesser aspect of their remarks than you're portraying.  The evidence before you should be suggesting to you, by now, that there is something about this situation that you're not seeing (this is a common situation for scientists, seeing there must be something there they're not seeing), which should be making you more cautious about your estimate of the IP's provocation-to-substance ratio. &lt;p&gt; You've claimed repeatedly that others are demanding obedience of you, but it appears to me you are trying to bully admins into doing your bidding.  It's possible for the IP to be partly in the wrong and for you to be creating additional problems at the same time. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:53, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::We've been through your belief that I'm &quot;not seeing it&quot; before.  That is not the issue right now.  If you want to talk about it, I invite you to start a separate thread.
::::::::::It sounds like you're saying, &quot;It is okay for this IP to curse at you, call your work crap, and otherwise grossly violate our written etiquette rules so long as their posts also contain anything whose substance matches my own views.&quot;
::::::::::I'm saying &quot;I'm going to avoid this person,&quot; and you're saying, &quot;NO!  Get back OVER there and TAKE THE ABUSE or else YOU are the bully and being manipulative.&quot; I feel a bit manipulated and bullied by that myself.  I feel that there's some &quot;become an obedient little underling or else the abuse will continue&quot; on the table.
::::::::::Let me ask you something, if the thing I want the admins to do is enforce [[WN:E|etiquette guidelines]] that were written down a long time before I got here and that I played no role in composing, what is so bad about that? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:38, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::If you really think I'm that much of a dishonest narcissistic imbecile, it's a waste of time for me to talk to you; no matter what I say, unless I treat you as the final authority on all things you'll just assume I'm either stupid or lying (or both). --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 05:57, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::I don't think any of those things and did not say them.  I think it's late and we both need a break. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 06:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::The etiquette guidelines, btw, were mostly written down a long time before I got here too, flaws in them sometimes get discussed, and overhauling them has been on my to-do list for years (but some aspects of them are fine as-is, and retuning some others ought to be tractable, but then some others we've been puzzling over for years and still haven't figured out how to fix). --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 06:48, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

===Simple solution===
If you ''really'' don't wanna use the talkpage, you could use the reviewers talkpage. Bypassing where you have an issue feeling uncomfortable, but without the risk of interrupting a review; the review can't exactly miss a talkpage post. [[U:BRS|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;'''BRS'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;(Contribs)&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 19:00, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
:Articles have reviewer talk pages that are just for reviewers?
:Oh, you mean the reviewer-person's individual talk page.  Well that wouldn't work for something like the title of the Tony Mendez article where it doesn't have a reviewer yet.  Like I said, I'm brainstorming ways to avoid talk pages so this will go in the jar. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]])
== Newsroom ==

Looking at the Newsroom, it looks like you'd written two articles on Romeo the lonely frog ([https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Bolivian_scientists_find_female_for_world%27s_loneliest_frog here] and [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Scientists_find_female_frog_to_save_Sehuencas_species here]); their page histories show that they were created within minutes of each other. It's an interesting topic but I'm sure you didn't mean to write two articles on it!

When you check the Newsroom to see if an article already exists, are you refreshing the page using the green arrows icon on the page and then clicking &quot;OK&quot; to purge the cache of the page? This &quot;green arrows refresh process&quot; ensures that you're looking at the most updated version of the page. Refreshing using just the browser doesn't guarantee that you see the most up-to-date version of the page. If you're not refreshing the Newsroom page using the green arrows refresh process, it might be something to do, if only to avoid doing all that writing twice. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 05:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
:Don't worry about it.  That's not what happened.  I didn't do all that writing twice. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:39, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
== Re [[Talk:Plane crashes into home in Yorba Linda, California]] ==

Hi Darkfrog24 please don't confuse newcomers, you could have just written &quot;Hi Joshua since in edit summary thats a first hand account, do you have any photos or videos? If so, please upload them [[:c:Special:UploadWizard|here]], and then add them to the article&quot; That'd be more clear and confuse them less. Personally I tend to leave such messages at their personal talk page (with link back at article talk) since within the first day of article creation they are the primary author, and only after a day has passed I start using the article talk page more. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:55, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
:I don't think my post is why he's confused.  He just said he's a first timer.
:That's exactly why I pinged you and BRS, Gryllida.  You would think to ask for photographs and video but I wouldn't.  It didn't even occur to me that JM might have any to post.  I figured his own eyes would do so long as he documented what he saw properly. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:13, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
::In that case I guess it could be appropriate to ask them what did they saw thats not included in the original sources. Could they please detail that here. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:59, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
:::Yeah, poor guy seems intimidated by his first attempt though.  Now that he's told us what his deal is, I think our goal should be not to scare him off or overwhelm him.  Let him see if he likes contributing here. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:59, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
== Little technical detail ==

I believe {{tl|sports}}, {{tl|United States}} and similar infoboxes templates automatically add the article to the relevant category, and adding the category by hand where a template already exists is -- technically speaking -- not necessary. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:56, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
: Actually, some of those infoboxen ''used'' to do categorization, sporadically, but over the years we've been gradually removing the code to do so (as opportunities present themsevles), on the theory it's better to have the categories explicitly specified on the article page itself. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 05:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
== Lead Reporter ==

[[Image:Wikinews Lead Reporter.png|right|frame|150px|This [[Wikinews:Contributing Reporter Awards|award]] is presented to Wikinews reporters upon their 100th published news article.  By my estimate, you reached #100 at or about [[Senator Ted Cruz proposes amendment to U.S. Constitution setting Congressional term limits]]. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:40, 26 February 2019 (UTC)]]
Afaik we don't have a [[:Category:Wikinewsies|Wikinewsie category]] for you, but by my count, 109 articles that you created have been published. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:40, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
:(HEART EYES) I love stuff like this!  Thank you! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:35, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
::Congratulations. I have a feeling it was harder earned than mine. ;-) Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 01:50, 27 February 2019 (UTC) Oh, wait. I never got one. LOL! --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 01:52, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
== Reviewing policy ==

Hello Darkfrog24,

Regarding [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Mummified_%27Crusader%27_found_decapitated_in_Dublin_church_vault&amp;curid=2862970&amp;diff=4467623&amp;oldid=4467604&amp;diffmode=source this diff] I ask you to understand that 
# I was not involved in the lengthy discussion, and 
# the edits that I had made to the article were minor and did not disqualify me from reviewing.

&lt;big&gt;&lt;big&gt;If you continue to submit articles for review '''without addressing the concerns indicated by a reviewer''', we may have to '''''stop reviewing your submissions'''''. I hope this does not occur, however as I am seeing that you are continuing to engage in the &quot;your understanding of verb tenses is wrong so I will not address your concern&quot; activity repeatedly, I feel obligated to remind you of this consequence.&lt;/big&gt;&lt;/big&gt;

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:58, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
:For the verb tenses I have an easy fix for you, it is mentioned at the talk page of the article at [[Talk:Mummified_%27Crusader%27_found_decapitated_in_Dublin_church_vault|the last section here]]. I hope it works for you.
:
:If &quot;It was raining yesterday&quot; ''still'' reads to you as &quot;it was raining yesterday and it is not raining today&quot;, please let me know. This would be '''very bizarre to me personally''', and in that case I am not sure how to address this. I would suggest you to speak with your dad and mum about it, or with your school teacher, or whoever has taught you this principle, and ask them to suggest a workaround that works and fits the wish to report in past tense. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:08, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::Yes, Gryllida, English is bizarre.  It's well known for being bizarre.
::EDIT CONFLICT: {{ping|Gryllida}} I consider you involved in the dispute because you are the one who changed &quot;are&quot; to &quot;were.&quot; And ...yes.  In this article &quot;On Monday&quot; does imply that things have since changed.
::As for you not reviewing articles that I draft, um, yes.  You have every right to not review articles that you don't want to review, for any reason or not reason.  ''We're all doing this for fun.'' But then you should leave them in the hopper for someone else to review, not reject it.
::Gryllida, I didn't want to say this in front of everyone, but now that we're in a slightly less public part of the site, would it be possible for you to view Wikinews as a place to educate yourself and improve your English?  Everyone makes mistakes now and then and sometimes we get called on them.  I will try not to hurt your feelings but I'm not going to use incorrect English in the article just because correct English seems counterintuitive to you.  I will add that this issue, where &quot;were&quot; means &quot;it stopped&quot; is really subtle.  It's an advanced-level mistake, not a rookie mistake.  People who've been living in English-speaking countries for years don't always get this one.  To build on what you're saying about parents and teachers, this is not the sort of thing that's taught in schools so much as what you pick up from years and years of actual use &quot;in the wild.&quot;
::When you make a mistake, like here with verb tenses and implications, what would you like me to do about it? &quot;Just leave the mistake in the article&quot; is not something I'm cool with, but there are other options.  Do you want an email and some time to fix it yourself?  Do you want me to message you privately with a source and an explanation?  What do you want?  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:21, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::And don't talk about parents and teachers like that.  It makes it look like you're trying to infantalize me. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:26, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I think I perhaps want to suggest that you avoid using &quot;is doing&quot; &quot;is reading&quot; &quot;is investigating&quot; in your news articles because it causes this controversy and you can work without it. 
::::
::::If not, then we may have to agree -- not just me but the entire reviewing team as a group -- to avoid reviewing your articles, this is what I meant not my personal involvement [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:35, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::I remarked on the article talk that as it is a news item, a workaround can be &quot;it started doing&quot; &quot;they started reading&quot; &quot;they started investigating&quot; specifying the start time.
:::::
:::::Perhaps it can get complicated for example an airplane crashed when it was raining yesterday and we don't know anything of today, then we can not say &quot;it started raining yesterday&quot; as it may have started 2-3 days ago instead... in that case &quot;the day started to a rainy windy weather&quot; or another phrase would need to be used or &quot;5mm of rain fell on that day&quot;. I hope this latter phrase does not imply that zero rain fell today... [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:47, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::The issue is this: When a change is not necessary, then it's not the draft team's responsibility.  Address your personal preferences yourself.  If you think there's a problem when there's not, then it ''might'' be my job to reassure you that there really isn't a problem by providing reliable sources and reference materaial, which is what I did, but I'm not going to cater to this sort of thing otherwise.  You're an adult.  I gave you all you needed to educate yourself.
::::::By all means, go to the sources, or look up some new ones, and place any of those things in the article, but it is not my job to do it for you.  The sources I used did not say when the investigation began, for example.
::::::What would you like me to do when I find you've made an English mistake, as here?
::::::If you don't want to review an article, then don't.  But then don't kick it out of the review hopper either.  Leave it for someone who may not share your beliefs to look at.  Frankly, I think you should put it back in the hopper now.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:03, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::We do not publish in the present tense, now we need to find a workaround and apply this workaround diligently to new submissions. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:28, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::No workaround is necessary, for reasons I gave on the talk page, but if you want to change correct text to other correct text, go ahead.  It's a collaborative project. -Darkfrog24
::::::I already said above that you must follow the current procedure, including applying workarounds where necessary, otherwise we may stop reviewing your submissions. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:45, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::I'll be more blunt, Gryllida: Stop ordering me around.  I'm not your employee, servant, slave, or dog.  It is absolutely not my job to make unnecessary changes to articles.  If you want non-problematic text changed, change it yourself.
:::::::If you don't want to review my work, then don't.  We're all volunteers here.  Leave it in the hopper for someone else to review. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:03, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::I'm not ordering your around, the decision whether you wish to be using the reviewing services is up to you. I am only reminding you that this service is conditional subject to you listening to what the reviewers are telling you and implementing it in the next submissions [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:06, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::And I am not speaking of myself here I am speaking of a possible decision to cease reviewing of your work as an entire team, I already said this numerous times above and I am a bit disappointed that it has not been heard or acknowledged [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:06, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Gryllida, I did listen to you.  I just didn't obey you.  I have no obligation to because I'm not an employee, servant, slave or dog.  If you want me to do something instead of doing it yourself, it is on you to convince me that it is necessary.  Or ask me for a favor.
:::::::::I did hear you when you made that threat.  How would that work exactly?  You run around to all the other reviewers and say nasty things about me, ''probably'' things that aren't exactly true, and ...then what?  Do you threaten them unless you get your way?  What is this, high school?
:::::::::I repeat: English is a tricky language.  It has quirks.  What would you like me to do when I catch you making one of these subtle mistakes?  Would you like to be contacted privately so you can correct it yourself?  If the New York Times isn't the kind of source you respect, then what is?  Should I write a Wikinews essay about tenses and submit it to the community for approval to see if it eventually becomes a guideline?  Is that the sort of thing that might prevent future conflict on this point. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:59, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::I don't ask you to obey me, just to see that &quot;if you don't want to review my drafts then don't&quot; is offtopic here because it is about the possibility of cessation of review efforts in their entirety. At the moment we do not publish anything in the present tense and the best way forward, ibstead of proposing it every time, is to write phrases which are accurate and in the past tense. I understand this limits you in the sense that your resulting articles would not use &quot;are doing&quot; or &quot;were  doing&quot; verb forms at all and may be crippling but in each of these cases a fully grammatically correct workaround is available.
::::::::::
::::::::::I also ask you to understand that our readers are international audience and &quot;police are investigating&quot; is not a good way to say to them &quot;police were investigating yesterday and they did not stop, there is a possibility (not a fact) that they are still investigating&quot;
::::::::::
::::::::::This is why I again recommend to avoid present tense and avoid anything else that you like to find inaccurate. We will continue to not-ready your submissions in the present tense as they imply a currently ongoing action and we have no citation for that.
::::::::::
::::::::::You are welcome to choose to &quot;not obey&quot; this, which will result in not-ready decisions for your articles, and we will not always be able to find workarounds for you as the volunteers availability is limited. If you could find the workaround yourself whenever you can then the chances of publishing in time would be increased. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 21:22, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::I do not want to spend my time looking for unnecessary workarounds, especially if the reviewer is going to go &quot;NO, this does NOT solve the imaginary problem that I saw in my head. Do it again!&quot; Because the problem that you perceived is not based on real English or on sources, it is impossible for me to know exactly what would please you, and I'm not going to dance and jump for your amusement.  In that scenario, a reviewer could even ''lie'' and pretend they saw a problem just to make someone else find &quot;solutions&quot; for them to throw out. I am not willing to put myself in a position to be victimized in that way.
::::::::::Gryllida, our international audience is best served by writing English the way it really is, not the way someone imagines or wishes it to be.  Real English is counterintuitive.  I know it can be embarrassing when someone catches you making a mistake, but like I said if you'd rather be contacted privately, just say &quot;Yes, thanks.  Contact me privately.&quot;
::::::::::If you mean that you will go to article's I've drafted and mark them &quot;Not ready&quot; on the grounds that I didn't grovel low enough on a separate article, then you are the one being disruptive and you risk sanctions.  I support your right to not review drafts that you don't want to review but not to render them less visible or less accessible to other reviewers. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:53, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:{{od|:::::::::}}We do not publish &quot;police are investigating this&quot; because it leads the reader to believe the investigation is ongoing at the time of reading.
:
:You do not wish to publish &quot;police were investigating this [on Monday]&quot; because it leads you to believe the investigation stopped at the time of reading.
:
:I think in this situation it is best to avoid both these phrases in the published articles. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:14, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::That's just it, Gryllida.  The investigation ''is'' ongoing as of the time BBC and NPR and our other sources did their investigations.  Our readers know they're on Project Wiki and that there's a lag.  Just like when we write &quot;Paris is the capital of France,&quot; they know the French are capable of changing their capital to Toulouse if they want to.  The term &quot;the police are ongoing&quot; expresses exactly what we want.
::I do not want to say &quot;were&quot; because it leads the reader to believe that the investigation has stopped.  Yes.  That's it exactly.
::If that is what you think, then you are perfectly free to alter the article to some third option that you put the time and effort into finding.  If the standard English form of expression makes you uncomfortable, go ahead and find an alternative, but it is not for me to do it for you and I really wish you'd stop acting like it's my job. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:22, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::We don't publish articles with lagged behind information, it is inaccurate. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:52, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::::No, we always publish articles with lagged behind information.  I think we might be at the part where we don't understand each other again.  Every Wikinews article is a snapshot in time.  It's the key way they're different from Wikipedia articles.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:55, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::The information should be accurate at the time of publication, 'police are investigating' may be inaccurate as at the time of publication we do not have a way to check at the same second as we click 'publish'. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:12, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, and the information &quot;the police are investigating&quot; is accurate at the time of publication per standard practices in high-quality journalistic sources.  It's okay if you think you're better than I am so long as you keep it to yourself, but it is not okay for you to expect me to act as I think you're better not only than I am but than the New York Times, BBC, and Associated Press.  They're professionals and we're not, so we defer to them.
:::::::You've explained why you think you're right, and I've listened to you.  I've explained why I'm right and I hope you've listened to me.  I showed professional sources to support my position and you didn't.  It's time to move on.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:25, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think we have consensus on &quot;''Yes, and the information &quot;the police are investigating&quot; is accurate at the time of publication per standard practices in high-quality journalistic sources''&quot;, instead we have to adhere to the current policy :
::::::::
::::::::* Articles should be written in the past tense or the present perfect. [[WN:SG]]
::::::::
::::::::This is because we can only report of the (recent) past, as we don't know anything of the present.
::::::::
::::::::This is why I suggest to avoid this high-quality English grammar construct in the articles submitted for review here. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:11, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Yes, you and I disagree on that point, but forgive me I think my judgement is better than yours.  I've been a professional writer for a long time now.  ''I do not expect you to just take my word for it regarding my credentials'' because Wiki is an anonymous project, but I hope that helps you understand that I have a good reason to not change my mind just because an equally anonymous stranger on the Internet tells me to.
:::::::::I think the Wikinews style guide was written to cover most cases most of the time and to be easy for newcomers to use.  This case, in which the past tense indicates that the ongoing situation has ended, is rare.  I think this is the second time it's been discussed in all my years at Wikinews.  Covering it in the Wikinews style guide is likely to just confuse new contributors, and over a problem that doesn't come up that much.  It makes more sense to just say &quot;occasional exceptions&quot; at the top of the page.
::::::::::Look at it this way: In American English, the color between black and white can be spelled &quot;gray&quot; or &quot;grey.&quot; They're both correct.  I happen to like &quot;gray&quot; more, so I use it more.  But if you think that &quot;gray&quot; is a misspelling, and you tell me &quot;fix that misspelled word!&quot; then it's not my job to snap to it.  It's my job, at most, to link you to a dictionary so you can put your mind at ease that there are no misspellings in the article. ''That'' is the way to address that kind of reviewer concern.  If you don't believe the dictionary, or you think you know better than the dictionary, you can ''still'' change it to &quot;grey,&quot; but you have to do it yourself.  And if you yell &quot;Don't make me clean up your misspellings!&quot; and accuse me of carelessness, I get to resent that.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:28, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:{{od|:::::::::}}I am just suggesting that you
:* when people introduce inaccuracies, you do not correct this to present tense, as it is against the present policy and is an absolute waste of time, and 
:* you do not submit articles with the present tense in them for review, as this is also an absolute waste of time
:(except those that say things like 'Paris is the capital of France'
:
:In return I could promise that I:
:* when editing your articles I will not use the grammar construct which you consider wrong
:
:I hope this is OK with you and is not considered bossy or disrespectful. These two things are rather unambiguously inefficient and counter productive and I hope that we can reach agreement here. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:39, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
::There are two problems with &quot;just change it 'back' to something other than present tense.&quot; First, this is a lot more work than you think.  It would have involved 1) running down additional sources (this is something you specifically do a lot, asking for extra information that you don't seem to realize would require extra sourcing) and 2) guessing, guessing, ''guessing'' and more guessing about what it is that you actually want.  Since the problem is coming from your thoughts and beliefs and not from the English language or standard journalistic practice or anything else that's outside your skull where I can see it, I'd be working blind, and I refuse to do that.
::Second, there's also the problem that this creates an environment in which other Wikinewsies can lie and ''pretend'' they see a problem, having decided ahead of time that they will reject every &quot;solution&quot; that the drafter offers, going &quot;No, not ''that'', stupid.  Now do it again!  Not that either, ''honestly''.  AGAIN!! (Ha ha ha ha ha, ''dance'' you stupid $#@%, ''DANCE!!'')&quot; I'm not okay with fostering that kind of environment.
::When you think there is a problem, and I can provide sources that show that it's at least possible that it's all in your head, just fix or &quot;fix&quot; it yourself.  Not my job to dance. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:00, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:::We want past tense, it is written in the policy and needs no guessing or dancing. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:55, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I don't have anything new to tell you, Gryllida.  I've explained why past tense is counterfactual in these rare cases.  I've explained why I am not willing to make unnecessary changes.  I'd like to think you've listened to me and looked at the sources I provided.  If you've done that and you're still not convinced, oh well.  I doubt that's going to change tonight.  This doesn't come up often, at least. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:03, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::In these rare cases we should agree to avoid the present tense. When someone fixes it and creates a past tense which you find inaccurate, we should agree that whatever correction or query that is made in response does not involve the present tense. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:11, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::I do not agree to that, for reasons given above.  If you happen to want a workaround, do the work yourself. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:32, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::I'd be glad to do this work myself for some time in return for two things:
:::::::# If my new proposed wording seems bad to you, ask at the article talk without undoing it. This is more efficient than communication in the edit summaries.
:::::::# In your next submissions please refer to the previous articles to learn the previous workarounds, and attempt to apply them in your next submission to the best of your ability. This is more efficient than having me do this work for the rest of my life.
:::::::
:::::::Is this OK with you. If not, you may wish to find another news site which does not require publishing in the past tense. Please let me know. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 07:17, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::I think we're talking in circles you and I.  It is time to let this matter sit.  I don't think I need to tell you to go out and read news articles because your participation here suggests you're already doing that.  If you see tenses used in the wild enough times, this will eventually click for you.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:01, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:{{od|::::::::}}I'd be glad to do this work for some time if you don't undo my edits. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:06, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
::I will undo edits when you introduce an error, as in the Crusader article.  I will bear with you if you change one correct form to another. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:09, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Would you please introduce a correction that is valid by the policy at the time of undoing. Ie not put the present tense back. We will not be paying attention to your request to change the policy if you don't do this. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:17, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I think we need to redirect if we're going to get anywhere.
::::Of all the articles currently linked on the main page, only two don't use any present tense.  How do you feel about this?
::::When I was researching this proposal, I found [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews_talk:Style_guide&amp;diff=4467929&amp;oldid=4467928 lots of articles] that used occasional present tense in the ways I've described to you.  How do you feel about this?  Do you think Blood Red Sandman and Hyrule and Qwerty were wrong, and that the reviewers like Pi zero were wrong to approve the articles for publication? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:30, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Before we do this analysis and discuss. First I would like you to agree to not undo peoples edits when they feel a correction is needed and you think it isn't. If you don't agree to this then we will have to close that discussion. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:09, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::No I will not do that first.  I find it creepy that you're asking at all.  But I will give you a lot of benefit of the doubt and not refuse just yet either.  I don't think you'll convince me, but maybe we'll learn a few things from each other.
::::::I'd like to point a few things out.  You're here trying to extract a promise from me not to use the present tense.
::::::...and not asking for similar promises from Blood Red Sandman or Qwerty or any of the other drafters who have recently used present tense.
::::::...and not talking to any of the reviewers who approved articles with present tense.
::::::...and not changing the present tense to past in any of the articles that have not yet been archived&amp;mdash;I add that I ''don't'' think you should do that.  I just think you need to figure out why you didn't, even if you never tell anyone.
::::::...and why did none of the reams of present tense on Wikinews bother you until just now?
::::::It ''was'' a long time ago, and you could certainly have changed your mind since then, but out of the twelve most recent articles that you approved through review that I saw, nine included some present tense.[[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_economy_triple_dip_recession_%27to_be_avoided%27_says_British_Chambers_of_Commerce][https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Cyclists_Jason_English_and_Liz_Smith_win_24_Solo_in_Australia][https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Icelandic_Hekla_volcano_shows_signs_of_activity][https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Kiribati_acquires_international_funding_for_solar_power][https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Florida_schools_begin_to_enforce_new_statewide_ban_on_saggy_pants_and_other_revealing_attire][https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Obama_decides_against_the_release_of_graphic_photos_of_bin_Laden][https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Scientists_create_schizophrenic_brain_cells&amp;&amp;oldid=1216447][https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_Premier_criticised_over_government_structure][https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Microsoft_waits_for_death_of_Internet_Explorer_6]
::::::Have I given you things that you consider worth thinking about?  Do you understand why &quot;you must promise not to use present tense because that is bad bad bad and no one should do it&quot; does not ring true for me?  Shall we let it sit and come back in a few days, when maybe you've got something closer to the real issue, whatever it might be?  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:40, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::I'm refusing to analyse this situation, ie explain why we use present tense there or document it or correct it, until you remove &quot;do it yourself, I will undo it if I don't like it&quot; approach to collaboration. I don't have it and others don't either. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:43, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Okay.  You don't have to analyze the situation just because I ask you to.  We're all volunteers here.  Feel free to let me know if you change your mind. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:20, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
== Learning format ==

You effectively wish to become the curator of your created articles, who undoes any changes until you have been convinced that these changes are OK. When someone else requests a change you say &quot;do it yourself it is a wiki&quot;, but you continue to undo it if it seems bad to you.

I can see all this is well meant and you care of the accuracy but this communication manner is inefficient. We can't work with it in the limited time. One thing that would make it more efficient is that if someone starts an improvement, then everyone else ''assists'' this improvement (whether it documented or not) and continues it rather than undo it.

Could you please try to do this. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:16, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:Get sources.
:Get sources.
:Get sources and show them to me.
:You want to communicate more efficiently with me specifically?  That's how.  That's what I find impressive.  That's what makes me change my mind.  You are my colleague and not more than my equal.  You know who's more than my equal?  The professional journalists and style experts at the New York Times, AP, BBC and all that.
:...and if you can't find a source that supports your position&amp;mdash;like in this case&amp;mdash;maybe consider that your position isn't as strong as you thought.  If you can't find a source that supports your position ''and I can find a source that supports mine'', or especially if I have outside sources ''and examples from within Wikinews''&amp;mdash;''like in this case''&amp;mdash;maybe gracefully bow out of the conversation.  It's easier than you'd think.
:And sometimes when you're out there looking for sources ''you learn things and get better''.  The source doesn't know you read it.  The source doesn't know you're changing your mind.  You don't have to trust the source not to laugh at you or call you a flip-flopper.  You're out there, by yourself, ''no witnesses'' and no one will ever know unless you tell them. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:29, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Or you could accept the rest of the articles published on Wikinews as sources. Or you could just follow the style guide even though you disagree with it and even though you can find exceptions to it. 
:::This whole thing: your disagreement with the standard, your unwillingness to accept the standard as a source, your starting discussions across multiple pages when you don't get the answer you want on any one page,your personalising disputes by talking about others' moods and frames of mind  - all of it, is a repeat of your crusade against LQ on Wikipedia. 
:::Collaboration means doing things you don't necessarily agree with. You don't do collaboration: your approach, when you disagree with something, is to campaign to make things go the way you want. I think that collaborative projects are not the place for you. Why not start your own site, where you don't have to listen to anyone but yourself? [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 12:52, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Good news!  I ''did'' find on-Wikinews articles to use at sources.  That's what [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews_talk:Style_guide&amp;diff=4467931&amp;oldid=4467929 that list of articles] in the style guide thread is.  It's not just exceptions either.  Of the fifteen articles linked to the front page at the time, only two of them didn't have any present tense in them.  It looks like standard practice here on Wikinews is to use the present tense when warranted.
:::::I feel like you are personalizing and speculating about my moods and frames of mind yourself right now.  Please stop.
:::::If you look at the Crusader article talk page, you'll see I said &quot;go ahead&quot; eight times.  I was not stopping Pi zero or Gryllida from making changes to the text.  I'm sure you'll say that sometimes when you've shown your sources and explained your reasoning, sometimes you have to step back and say &quot;So you still don't agree with me.  Oh well.&quot;  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:35, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::You're right that I'm personalising this dispute because I see your approach here as decidedly uncollaborative and a waste of resources. You've been asked to abide by the style guide and you've said no. Then you tried to change the style guide to suit you, and you've personalized the standard as whims and fetishes of individuals. This behaviour is uncollaborative. 
::::::But nowhere have I speculated on your moods or frame of mind. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 14:25, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Let's see if we can bring down that level of hostility.  I'm going to give you two questions and you answer whichever one of them you're more comfortable with.  Good?
::::::Do you believe that Blood Red Sandman and Qwerty and other drafters were wrong to use present tense in their articles and/or that Pi zero and Acagastya and other reviewers were wrong to approve those articles for publication?  Simple mistake that just happened to go on for a long time?  Blatant violation of the rules?
::::::You just asked me about on-Wikinews sources, and I was able to provide you with a link to some.  What do you think of this? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:10, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::There ''is'' a common thread between here and Wikipedia but it isn't that I can't collaborate.  It's this: When someone tells me &quot;The sources are wrong.  Believe and obey ''me'' instead,&quot; that doesn't work for me.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:16, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Not good. Why would my being &quot;comfortable&quot; - a state about which you have no knowledge or information - have any bearing on any discussion? Answer: it doesn't, and by suggesting it's a factor, you're personalising the issue. I find such personalisation to be condescending and passive-aggressive and manipulative.
:::::::I think your &quot;sources&quot; are irrelevant to the issue at hand. You think that if you want to do something and other people did do that something (ie you can find examples of what you want to do even if those examples aren't directly relevant to what you want), you're completely justified in doing what you want. That thinking is fundamentally flawed. It also ignores the broader context of your problematic behaviour here. You don't understand how review works or why the process is what it is, you don't understand why Wikinews has different standards than other places, and you don't understand that the writer-reviewer dynamic is fundamentally unequal. So it isn't that you want to change things because you think Wikinews could operate better; it's that you want to change things because things don't work the way you want them to, and you haven't bothered to think about the merits of the approach used here.
::::::: I think your whole approach - ignoring standards and then attempting to change those standards to suit you, all the while personalising the dispute - is aggressive and not at all collaborative, because the end goal isn't to make the project better but to let you do what you want. If you're not willing to truly collaborate (which means doing things you don't want to do, especially when you think those things are wrong; collaboration means working within current standards, not shaping the project to suit you), then a collaborative environment like a wiki isn't a good fit for you. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 15:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm trying to bring down the level of hostility.  You are being very hostile.
:::::::::Okay, I observe you're characterizing my efforts to keep you comfortable as evidence of wrongdoing, and you're not responding to any of the points I brought up and you're repeating the same points you've made before, recently.  I don't think we can have a productive discussion, at least not right now.  You saw fault with the big long discussion I had with Gryllida, so I hope you'll understand that I don't want to have one with you.  Please take this as proof that I listen to you, even when you appear mean.  If you want to try again another day, that's okay, but I think we're done for now. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
{{od}}I don't want you to try to &quot;make me comfortable&quot;. I want you to stop thinking about me in terms of how I feel because my feelings have no relevancy here. Look at what I say, not how you think I feel. 

Notice that you are repeating the same points in multiple venues, so accusing me of doing that is ... Hypocritical? Disingenuous? One of those. In fact I reject the basis for your sources because they're a red herring to the issue at hand. 

Finally, I did not object to your long conversation with Gryllida. I objected to the fact that you'd started ''yet another'' discussion on ''yet another'' page because you were being asked to do something you didn't want to do. It really is Wikipedia LQ all over again. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 20:05, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
:Oh good.  You're back.  I was thinking about your posts and I thought of ''the'' most wonderful solution.  Instead of me leaving, you should arrive!
:I was thinking how do I explain why I'm here and who'd do the draft work if I left, and I realized: YOU, buddy!
:You should try your hand at drafting Wikinews articles.  Thrn you wouldn't have to ask me these questions because you'd know.  Gryllida snd Pi seem to like you and we'd all be glad to have you.  And you'd really get some insight into the review process.  I bet you'd BE a reviewer in a year if you wanted.  And I'd be glad to help!
:And not that anyone should disregard you now, but it would give your voice more weight in our discussions.  So what do you say?  Want to be publication pals?  -Darkfrog
&quot;It looks like standard practice here on Wikinews is to use the present tense when warranted.&quot; is correct, but pushing your point does not motivate people to explain when it is. How can you create motivation in a better way? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:10, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

:G, I love where you're going with this.  This is why those long conversations are worth it.  Which of my actions is the &quot;pressing the point&quot; in this scenario?  Above, I told you that sources are what I find convincing and impressive.  What does it for you?  Previous Wikinews articles?  Reputable essays?  Logic examples? -Darkfrog
::&quot;Hi guys, your current language usage seems wrong, here are previous wikinews articles and reputable essays and logic examples&quot;.
::And then no-matter what my or Pi zero's reply is, 
::&quot;Hi again guys, your current language usage seems wrong, here are previous wikinews articles and reputable essays and logic examples&quot;.
::Does such repetition work as a motivator? Is there anything that would work better? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Are you asking me to address you in that way next time I catch an English error?  I can certainly do that.  Or are you saying you ''don't'' want me to do that?  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm not guiding you. I'm just asking whether there is a more appealing motivator than [[Talk:Mummified_%27Crusader%27_found_decapitated_in_Dublin_church_vault|repeating 'nope, media is not wrong, I believe it']]. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:36, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::&quot;Yes, please do provide me with on-Wiki sources and logical examples because I find that useful&quot; or &quot;No do not provide me with those things because I do not find them useful,&quot; please.
:::::Let's also go back to the part of your post that showed promise.  You said &quot;pressing the point.&quot; To which of my actions do you refer by this?  Identify the action that bothers you so I can achieve my goal by doing something else, if reasonably practical.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:44, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::I meant repeating. It is also called &quot;sticking to your guns&quot;, figuratively speaking.
::::::
::::::Is there a better motivator than &quot;Please give me the information about this topic which &lt;mark&gt;I&lt;/mark&gt; find useful&quot;? Followed by &quot;No, I don't find this useful. I don't find the style guide useful. I don't find your logic useful. I don't find previously published articles useful. I don't find your please-dance-now feedback useful. Please give me the information about this topic which &lt;mark&gt;'''I'''&lt;/mark&gt; find useful.&quot;
::::::
::::::What about &quot;please give me any information about this topic that &lt;mark&gt;you&lt;/mark&gt; find useful to learn from&quot;? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:10, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Okay, I will gladly give you information on this topic that I find useful.  That's outside sources, professionally published.  However, this is what I've been doing from day one. &quot;I have a source for this and I'll show it if you want&quot; or &quot;here's one source; I have more if you want.&quot; I've also repeatedly asked other people for their sources.
:::::::But if the thing the other person finds useful is &quot;well this seems more sensible to me&quot; or &quot;well I say it's right, so that's that,&quot; that is not something I find convincing.
:::::::You and Pi zero both stuck to your guns too, though.  If it's not wrong for you, then it's not wrong for me.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:14, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::I guess it is difficult to find information useful to you, because you reject the logic item (paragraph 1 [[Talk:Mummified_%27Crusader%27_found_decapitated_in_Dublin_church_vault|here]]) by saying &quot;You are not a paid accredited professional high quality journalist, and they are&quot;. Is that [[:wikt:ad hominem|ad hominem]] ([[:File:Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement.svg|ref]]) or not? Is there a more efficient way? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:36, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Yes, I consider sources more reliable and credible than reasoning.  Pi zero thinks like a logician.  I think like a scientist.  I like evidence.  To my mind, does &gt; should.  If we observe something ''does'' work in a certain way, then it doesn't matter what it logically ''should'' do.  This is especially appropriate for the English language, which is famously counterintuitive, illogical and bizarre.
:::::::::Ad hominem would apply if I rejected an idea because of who said it.  What's going on here is &quot;lack of evidence.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:08, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::You've spent quite a lot of time here saying how things '''should''' work instead of observing how they '''do''' work. True logical systems work with what is present within the system itself. They do not rely on external sources. 
::::::::::Relying on sources leaves you vulnerable to cherry-picking and confirmation bias. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 20:26, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::With respect, Ca2james, I have been doing the exact opposite of that. &quot;Hey, actual practice around here is to publish articles that use present tense&quot; [how things do work], &quot;so let's update the style guide&quot; [how things should work].  If I'd gotten in everyone's face and said, &quot;HEY!  EVERYONE start following the style guide!&quot; that would be valuing should over do.  If I'd gone into articles and changed every present to past/present perfect, even where unambiguously inappropriate, that would be valuing should over do.
:::::::::::The vaccine against cherry-picking and confirmation bias is to have more than one person bring in the sources. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:48, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
== Ad hominem ==

Hi,

&quot;''Ad hominem would apply if I rejected an idea because of who said it.  What's going on here is &quot;lack of evidence.&quot; ''&quot;

You said,
* I think you're good at this, Pi zero, but I think the New York Times, CNN, AP and other professional sites are better
* New York Times, BBC, and Associated Press. They're professionals and we're not, so we defer to them.

That's rejection because of who said it, is it not? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:No, it's not.
:If your doctor says &quot;you have a bacterial infection, so take antibiotics&quot; and your neighbor, whom you like and think is smart but who isn't a medical professional says &quot;I think you have allergies, take allergy medicine,&quot; and you defer to the doctor, that's not ad hominem. :Also, philosophy isn't my forte, but ad hominem involves ''saying something bad'' about the person making the argument.  If I'd said &quot;Don't believe what Pi zero says about English because he's eats too much ice cream,&quot; that's ad hominem.
:According to this [https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/1/Ad-Hominem-Abusive website about logical fallacies], it isn't ad hominem even if you ''do'' attack the arguer, so long as your &quot;attack&quot; is relevant. &quot;Don't believe Mary because she's not a doctor&quot; is not ad hominem so long as you're talking about medicine.  So &quot;I believe the AP more than Pi zero because the AP is made by professional journalists and Pi zero isn't one&quot; is not ad hominem.
:Because of you, I have learned more about logical fallacies.  Thank you, Gryllida. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:36, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::Ah. I guess your current point of disagreement with Pi zero is that he does not believe in the authority of that particular doctor. 
::
::He said &quot;mass media is wrong&quot;, and the correct response to that is not &quot;nope it is not, it is professional&quot;, but instead a visit to a doctor that you both trust (a good English dictionary or British Council or an English textbook or something else that you both consider trustworthy). [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:29, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Now we're getting somewhere.  I worked with Pi zero for many years at WT:MOS, and I haven't heard of any particular outside source that he likes.  He tends to use internal logic when he wants to impress or convince someone, and I don't find that very impressive.  Do you know of what kind of source he likes?  I would gladly consult it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:56, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::[[:wikt:ad hominem]] is defined as &quot;an attempt to argue against an opponent's idea by discrediting the opponent himself.&quot;
::
::I suppose &quot;Don't believe Mary because she's not a doctor&quot; is ad hominem still?
::
::To address the substance of the argument you could, for instance, a) discuss the symptoms of allergies and bacterial infections or b) visit the doctor to do a medical test to confirm the bacterial infection or c) do something else that is related to the point which your neighbour is making [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:55, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::By that reasoning, you and Pi zero wanting to close the style guide update proposal on the [untrue] claim that the person who proposed it does not understand review is an ad hominem attack, and you should instead discuss the proposal on its merits. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:27, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Two things. 1) I think &quot;Mary is not a doctor, therefore she is wrong&quot; is an ad hominem but &quot;Mary is not a doctor, therefore I prefer to not speak with her about this&quot; is not -- the latter is not an attempt to argue against her idea. 2) &quot;Mary is not a doctor&quot; is not a personal attack; saying &quot;Mary is silly, therefore she is wrong about my bacterial infection&quot; or &quot;Mary is a terrible cook, therefore she is wrong about my bacterial infection&quot; would be closer to ad hominem. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:50, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
== Necessity for publication ==

At [[Talk:New samples may tell if type D killer whale is a unique species, say scientists|this talk page]] I asked &quot;''I'm also wondering: when you submit an article for review, does it usually mean you mostly do not plan to edit it anymore?''&quot; you said &quot;''No. It means I will make edits that are necessary for publication''&quot;. 

I am curious now, how do you know what is required for publication? You've said that clarifying what it means to &quot;see live&quot; is not required, &quot;skin samples from how many individuals?&quot; is not required

Does your definition mean that inaccuracies should be corrected, but adding clarifications is optional?

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:03, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
:Yes, it absolutely includes inaccuracies that should be corrected but also any violation of policy, English language mistakes, and other things that I'm sure will come to me.  Clarifications that are necessary are necessary and those that are not are not.  Off the top of my head I think we should case-by-case that one.
:Let me give you an example.  I just wrote a draft about two mountaineers and I did one paragraph about how they were experienced.  Let's say I wrote &quot;Nardi had climbed Narga Parbat before but never reached the top.&quot; If another Wikinewsie goes &quot;Hey!  The source says he attempted to climb Narga Parbat but it doesn't say whether he made it to the top or not,&quot; I should respond with &quot;''Oh!'' 'Attempt' is mountaineer-speak for 'didn't make it to the top.'&quot; The other Wikinewsie had a good-faith concern about accuracy, but no change to the article was needed in that case.  Now let's flip it around and say I wrote &quot;Nardi had attempted Narga Parbat before,&quot; and the other Wikinewsie goes &quot;Attempted?  What the blorgh does ''that'' mean?&quot; (reading the source wouldn't have helped because it doesn't say) Since our readership is (presumably) partially people who speak English as a subsequent language, maybe we should change that to &quot;Nardi had attempted Narga Parbat before, meaning he had climbed on it but turned back without summiting.&quot;
:As to what to include and what to leave out, it's subjective.  There is almost always more information that we could put into an article, but then the article would be too big.  Off the top of my head, I don't think we should have a rule about it.  It basically involves guessing at what the readers will want to know and we should expect that different Wikinewsies should have different guesses.  For my own part, though, if the source articles decided that it wasn't necessary to include a given piece of information, it's probably not going to bother me too much if we don't either.  But now that I think of it, sometimes I chase down more information anyway (look at pretty much anything I used that has &quot;date of access&quot; written next to it, or any much-older source, like [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/U.S._Senator_Elizabeth_Warren_releases_DNA_test_results,_asks_Donald_Trump_to_make_promised_donation this one about the Hauvasupai showing why Native Americans so often don't want to do DNA tests and who Pocahontas was] that means I added some more.  But finding it took work, and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to tell someone else to do all that work to serve a vision not their own.
:I have no objection to you telling the readers how many whales were sampled if you can find that information (it isn't in the sources I used), but it's not speaking to me.  It doesn't seem shiny and interesting and fun, so I don't want to do the extra work of running it down.  The part about the crossbow?  That, I think, will turn a few heads!  But if you're feeling &quot;ick!  NO CROSSBOWS&quot; then take it out.  The article's still good without it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:21, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
::Waaaaiit what do you mean &quot;clarify what it means to 'see live' is not required&quot;?  Do you mean you thought &quot; this is the first time scientists have seen these animals live&quot; was confusing?   Well [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/New_samples_may_tell_if_type_D_killer_whale_is_a_unique_species,_say_scientists boop] then.[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:30, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
== Time saving ==

I am about to exit this talk page shortly, but I just wanted to check whether you would like to share any examples of you putting effort into saving the time of another person as a part of collaborative work.

I understand that the above discussions, and my rejections of some of your articles, may seem not really me saving ''your'' time. I was unprepared to nitpicking. I am hoping to learn to handle it better in the future.

Cheers, --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:15, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:Yes.  Every time I volunteered a source without being asked--saved having to ask and wait for an answer.
:Every time I took a stub article and expanded it--saved having to wait for the poster to get to it/figure out the site.
:Every time I saw a non-ready article in the review hopper and fixed it up to reviewable condition--saved reject-and-redo.
:Every time I helped a new guy figure out how this site worked--saved the poster having to figure out the site.
:Generally the production of high-quality drafts that don't need as much work as other drafts--saves review time.
:Most recently, the three times in the previous discussion that I suggested we close and move on (but you wanted to continue and I was okay with that). [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:10, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::Nice, thanks. Do you find '[[:w:compromise|compromise]]' useful for saving time, and if so, do you see it used at Wikinews for collaboration? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 18:32, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::: &quot;Do whatever you want to the article so long as it is correct; I will not fight you on it&quot; is a compromise, so I guess I do. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:37, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Does ''saying'' that out loud save anyone's time, as opposed to not saying anything? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:33, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::So your idea of collaboration is when you &quot;drive the bus&quot; and can do your own thing with no interference or comment or requests from anyone. But collaboration also involves compromise, which typically results in both sides giving something up or finding a middle way through a dispute. Darkfrog24, you don't do that. When challenged or when you disagree, you dig in your heels and the situation becomes one of &quot;your way or the highway&quot;. In other words, you spend time and  energy trying to convince the other party that you're right and you don't try to find a middle solution (and saying &quot;do it if you want to&quot; is not be an acceptable compromise on this site). You work fine with other people when things go your way but not otherwise - I daresay that's not an actual collaborative approach. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 20:36, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Let's look at the text at the very bottom of this page: &quot;If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.&quot; Note that it says &quot;by others.&quot; It does not say &quot;If you don't want to be forced to rip up your own hard work with your own hands and replace it with something that isn't as good just because a stranger on the Internet wants you to, especially if they don't have a good reason.&quot;
:::Also consider, that when things don't go my way, and I quietly let it go, you wouldn't have found out about it, would you?
:::What do you think of trying your hand at drafting articles yourself?  I think you should give the review process a try.  You'd get some real insight into it if you tried it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:53, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::The disclaimer at the bottom has nothing to do with expected standards of writing: it's both true that others may mercilessly edit one's text AND that editors are expected to abide by the style guide even if they think it's wrong or stupid or not best practice. And shifting the focus on me is a clear attempt to get the focus off of you... And is also clearly an attempt to focus on me as a person instead of my arguments, which qualifies as an ''ad hominem'' fallacy methinks.
::::Do you have examples of you letting things go? Not just the &quot;do it if you think it's a problem&quot; but of you either actively trying to find a compromise or you letting go and doing what you're asked to do (since you started refusing). Because I do follow what's going on here and I don't remember seeing anything like that from you. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 22:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::If abiding by this part of the style guide is important, shouldn't you also be talking to all the other drafters and reviewers who have not been abiding by this rule?
::::::I don't remember a good example off the top of my head right now, but something will probably come to me.  The point is that there wouldn't have been an argument or a big long talk thread, so it wouldn't have been that memorable and there wouldn't be that much left behind.  I'll have to go look through old articles and remember what I was thinking. 
::::::Something is only ad hominem if it's not relevant, like &quot;Don't listen to Ca2james' opinion of minimum wage laws; he eats too much ice cream.&quot; &quot;Ca2james' understanding of the review process would be more valuable if he went through it a few times&quot; is relevant.  Why ''shouldn't'' your experience or lack thereof affect the weight I give your opinion?  It doesn't make you bad or stupid or not worth listening to at all.  But it does mean your understanding may be limited.
::::::...but you can fiiiiiiiiix that!  Want to do an obituary?  That 90210 actor [https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/04/entertainment/celebrity-reactions-luke-perry/index.html Luke Perry] just died.  Want to do science news?  Eurekalert.com is a great place to find [https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-03/uou-tai022819.php sources].  U.S. politics?  We don't have an article on Cohen's testimony yet, and we could use one.  Art?  I will gladly help you.
::::::If you made reviewer, maybe Pi zero wouldn't feel so overworked.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:41, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::&quot;Hi Ca2james, you lack writing experience&quot; does not address the substance of the argument, does it? What substance did Ca2james tell you and how do you address it? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:49, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::I don't mean he necessarily lacks writing experience, only that he does not seem to have drafted any extant articles here on Wikinews, and you can read my response to him for yourself.  It's right there. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Hi Ca2james, you lack writing experience &lt;mark&gt; here at Wikinews&lt;/mark&gt;&quot; (with your correction added and marked) does not address the substance of the argument either, does it? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:05, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::I already answered that question. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:06, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::1) You said &quot;I don't mean he lacks writing experience, only that he maybe lacks it here at Wikinews&quot;, but you did not answer my question.
:::::::::::
:::::::::::2) Also when I ask &quot;X does not address Y, does it?&quot; I want to hear your opinion about that, not &quot;go read X yourself&quot;. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:15, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::Well we don't always get what we want.  You've taken on a condescending tone and I do not think it fruitful to go there. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:49, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Sorry.
:::::::::::::
:::::::::::::I would like to know your opinion about that, please. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:41, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::(By the way, congratulations, you've '''[[:File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg|moved]]''' from &quot;I am discrediting you&quot; to &quot;I dislike your tone&quot;; that's progress.) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I was never discrediting anyone.
::::::::::::::I commented on your tone because your tone changed. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:46, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::I do not wish to comment on any of these two statements here, as it may sidetrack this conversation.
:::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::I am still interested in knowing your opinion about the original question. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:55, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|Darkfrog24}} (pinging because this is nested pretty deeply) Actually, according to {{w|Ad hominem}}, ad hominem &quot;is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.&quot; So, yes, by talking about my experience here rather than the arguments I've made you're engaging in ad hominem attacks.
:::::::I sort of understand why you're doing that, how can I know anything if I'm not doing it like you do? And yes, there's something to be said for experience, but there's also something to be said for reading and understanding guidelines and how they work. And the fact is, my experience or lack thereof really isn't relevant except that I'm obviously butting in with my observations. Still, that butting in is not sufficient reason to discredit my opinions or observations.
:::::::And why am I not talking to anyone else about following the style guide? No one else argues against doing what they're asked to do like you do, which is what I object to. People slip up and don't follow the style guide, or they deliberately make an exception (while still following the spirit of Wikinews and its principles). But if a reviewer were to ask the writer to do something different, the writers will either just do it or find a compromise that works, because time is of the essence and they're working within the spirit of Wikinews.
:::::::But over the last year or so, you've balked at making changes, mostly because you think they're necessary or you think you're being asked to do different things friend different reviewers. When you receive a request you denigrate the reviewer request as a personal preference or a fetish rather than as attempts to align the article with the spirit of Wikinews as captured by its guidelines. Then you bring in outside sources to justify your position; those outside sources are almost invariably irrelevant (because Wikinews is not the mainstream media, so mainstream media standards and guidelines don't apply on Wikinews). 
:::::::The argument over all that spans multiple pages; eventually, it dies down only to be repeated upon the next request that you do something different. I object to the arguments and their repetition. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 01:13, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

::::''Does ''saying'' that out loud save anyone's time, as opposed to not saying anything? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:33, 4 March 2019 (UTC)'''[copied by Darkfrog24]
:::::Yes.  It keeps them from thinking they need to wait for me.  That might not matter on Wikipedia but it does here. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:03, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Do you then wait for them? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:03, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Here's an example from a recent article. [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Sixteen_states_sue_U.S._President_Trump_to_stop_declaration_of_emergency_for_border_wall&amp;diff=4465752&amp;oldid=4465751 Pi zero claims my draft] &quot;claimed what someone was thinking.&quot; Whaaaaaaaat? No it didn't.  It was fine the way it was!!  Note the absence of talk page discussion.  It wasn't a big deal and I treated it like it wasn't a big deal.  This sort of thing happens all the time. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:06, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:&lt;small&gt;Pi zero was right, there; saying that someone is doing something &quot;with the idea that&quot; (whatever) is equivalent to saying that we know what the someone is thinking about (whatever).&lt;/small&gt; 
:In that case the article was passed with a note to watch out for Wikinews saying what someone else is thinking, and no requests were made of you. It's great that you did let that go but that wasn't the situation I was asking about.. I was asking for examples where you were &quot;either actively trying to find a compromise or you letting go and doing what you're asked to do (since you started refusing).&quot; [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 01:13, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::Right.  Pi zero makes edits I disagree with all the time, but so long as he does them himself, oh well.  Tolerating other people making changes to articles we've worked on is how this place works.  Making changes I don't believe in ''myself'' is not how this place works.
::I don't remember off the top of my head, but generally if things get that far I have a good reason for believing what I believe.  I have no more obligation to change my mind because Person X says so than Person X does because I say so.
::But would the one about the singing mice count?  While looking for sources to support my position, I ran across one that could be read as supporting Pi zero's position.  I posted it on that article's talk page and by the proposal to update the manual of style, where I recommended that its contents be considered for inclusion.  Covered &quot;succession of tenses&quot; or somesuch.  So I guess I'm relatively good about confirmation bias and cherry picking.
::Whenever you give me these questions, I think &quot;Hm, I should check his user history for the last time he was in that situation,&quot; but then I remember.  But were you ever in a similar situation on some other part of Project Wiki?  When was the last time someone told you &quot;I want THIS change to the article.  No, Ca2james ''you'' do it,&quot; and you did it even though you believed it was detrimental to the article?  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:32, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Of course I've had work changed and asked to be changed and I've argued and whatnot. But Wikinews isn't like Wikipedia in many ways; for one, on Wikipedia someone else will change things they think are wrong because one goal of Wikipedia is to get things right ''eventually''. Wikinews is different in that the article has to be right ''now''. There's a time limit on Wikinews and everyone has to work together to publish the best possible article. That means everyone has to work together and do their part to not hold up the process. Reviewers ''can't'' be &quot;fixing&quot; the article for an editor or they disqualify themselves from reviewing. It's unreasonable and against Wikinews principles for an editor to just leave things for others to fix. 
:::Another key difference is that on Wikipedia all editors are equal but there is definitely a hierarchy on Wikinews. And this is one area where it seems you are seeing things as you want them to be, not as they are. 
:::Yes, there are articles where the style guide isn't followed. But if people don't follow it, the first solution isn't to change it; it's to examine what's going on and address it with the contributors. And this is for two reasons: first, the guide cannot cover every possible circumstance so exceptions will occur. Second, the guide has been developed as a way to embody the core principles of neutrality on Wikinews. In other words, each of its elements has been chosen for a reason, and to change any one thing requires careful thought as to how to maintain core principles. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 12:29, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
::::So in other words, &quot;No I have never had this experience.&quot; That can be fixed.  The newsroom is right there.
::::Right, so I don't have time to sit there and pretend that Gryllida didn't make a mistake and guess and guess and guess at what pretend solution will satisfy someone with an imaginary problem.
::::I don't think the guide has been developed to embody core principles.  This style guide looks like it's meant to be simple so that it doesn't put off newcomers.  I don't think the &quot;past or present perfect&quot; line is meant to be taken that literally.  I think whoever put it there just forgot &quot;Oh, but present tense for ongoing things.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:57, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You, who takes written words and sources literally, ''don't'' think that the style guide is meant to be taken literally? Holy contradiction, Batman! Do you see why, when you contradict yourself like that, I think that you're trying to change the guide to suit you? It doesn't make any sense that the architects of the guide just forgot something, or if they did, it hasn't been fixed already, given how long Wikinews has been around. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 14:53, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Hm. The way Pi zero contradicted himself this past week did bother me a lot, yes. So let's be consistent and talk literally.
::::::The style guide never literally says &quot;never use present tense.&quot; I think this hasn't been &quot;fixed&quot; because no one started inferring that &quot;use past or present perfect&quot; also meant &quot;''and'' never use present tense&quot; until last week.
:::::: The style guide does ''use'' the present tense the way our articles do: &quot;Jennifer Smith is best known for Really Boring Song, which appeared on her 1992 debut Mindlessly Rubbish Album,&quot; &quot;Michelangelo's famous sculpture David is to be loaned to Djibouti for a year,&quot; &quot;They are scheduled to meet next Tuesday,&quot; &quot;The event is supposed to continue through August.&quot; There are more.  I wish I'd noticed this before the proposal was closed.
::::::So either the style guide is not meant to be read as &quot;never use present tense&quot; or the architects sometimes do forget things: they forgot to take these examples out.
::::::Some of those present-tense examples have been there since [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews:Style_guide&amp;diff=24560&amp;oldid=24557#Reporting_on_future_events at least 2005].
::::::My proposal was not about changing the guidance.  It was about clarifying it so people would not get confused or worked up and think that the style guide forbids present tense. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:02, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I thought of one.  I absolutely do not think that science news articles should be held to the two-day rule because of the lag between making the discovery, publishing in a professional journal, and publishing in mainstream media.  To me, treating the date of publication as a focal event is silly.  So many news stories that would work well for Wikinews are unpublishable here on a technicality: the date of publication in a scientific journal is often more than two days before the date of corroboration in an independent publication.  I contacted a scientist to find out why there was such a lag, but I don't remember what they said off the top of my head.
Nonetheless, I've been going with the two-day rule and the silly &quot;treat the date of publication as the focal event&quot; workaround that we have here.  I got so used to chucking out newsworthy discoveries that were published more than two days ago that I forgot I was doing it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:44, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
:That's a great example of collaboration! So... Why did you accept the status quo in that case and not with respect to other topics? [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 12:29, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
::Because &quot;We use present tense all the time&quot; ''is'' the status quo.
::The two-day rule is inappropriate for science news articles, but it was around for a long time before I got here.
::The problem in this case is Pi zero didn't care about the &quot;past or present perfect [but doesn't actually say 'only']&quot; rule last week.  He ''suddenly'' acted like I was doing something wrong and went on about &quot;compromising standards&quot; and &quot;betraying [his] charge&quot; when he ''literally'' didn't feel that way two days earlier and hadn't for years.  Even if we avoid speculating about exactly what's going on in his head, I think it's safe for me to say &quot;The fact that this article uses present tense is not the real reason Pi zero rejected it.&quot;  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:53, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Oh, the verb tense issue is clearly a problem because you don't even try to do it right. What others do against the style guide does not justify your own behaviour or magically become the &quot;right&quot; way to do things. But it also looks to me like the verb tense issue might possibly be the hill {{ping|Pi zero}} has chosen to &quot;die on&quot; (as it were) with respect to you and your unwillingness to abide by the guide. You've sought to compromise standards for a long time, and you've wasted countless hours and energy by refusing to work with others when they ask you do something and by arguing for change without, it appears, truly understanding why things are the way they are (and that understanding matters). [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 14:53, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
::::&quot;Don't even try to do it right&quot;?  Let me see if I've got this straight:
::::1) I'm not the only drafter who uses present tense.  Articles that use it are so common that they outnumber the ones that don't, by a lot, and they have for years.
::::2) But when I use present tense, that's undesirable &quot;behavior&quot; and I'm &quot;wasting people's time&quot; and I'm &quot;not even trying to do it 'right.'&quot; 
::::3) ''Noooooobody else'' who uses present tense is &quot;behaving badly&quot; or &quot;wasting people's time and energy.&quot; This isn't a case of, &quot;Hey, I just ''noticed'' that no one obeys this part of the style guide, so let's change that.  Let's talk to Blood Red Sandman and Qwerty ''and'' Darkfrog and make sure ''everyone'' uses it from now on! (Thank you, Darkfrog and Pi zero for bringing this matter to the community's attention.)&quot; Nope.  People are talking to me and only me.
::::4) When I make it clear I don't want to do something and explain why I don't want to do it, and someone else keeps pressuring me to do it anyway, you say that I'm the one &quot;being aggressive,&quot; even though I'm not stopping anyone else from doing it.
::::Does this help you see why I feel like ''maybe'' something funny's going on here?
::::Because if it doesn't, I think our conversation might be done.  Wouldn't want to waste people's time, would you? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Yep your arguing against doing things according to the style guide and not working to the spirit of Wikinews on time-sensitive article pages, justifying your behaviour not as something as desireable to improve Wikinews, but as something that everyone else does so you should be allowed to do it and it should be codified so you can keep working against principles here, is aggressive and behaving badly and ''you are the '''only''' one doing it''. And you do it over and over and over and you don't see a problem with it.. which is part of the problem. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 21:58, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Yes, if everyone else is doing something, then it is okay for me to do it too, especially if they were already doing it for a long time before I got here.  To use your words, I'm going with how this place actually works rather than by how anyone thinks it should work.
::::::That's why I think this is not about the present tense or the style guide.  I think this is about social relationships and group identity.
::::::I do have to ask: How would you know if I'm the only one doing X, Y or Z?  I'm not the only one with complaints around here[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews:Water_cooler/proposals&amp;diff=4370960&amp;oldid=4370950#From_a_discouraged_newbie]. You talk about the &quot;spirit of Wikinews&quot; but you registered in January 2017 and you have fewer than 100 edits, almost all of them on talk pages. You've never drafted an article (at least not one that's extant).  It looks likely to me that I know more about how things work here than you do, probably by a lot.  Did you perhaps used to contribute to Wikinews using a different account?  I know Acagastya has two accounts.  Do you do a lot of lurking?  We write all these articles, I'd ''hope'' someone reads them. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:47, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Looking at the core of this argument, yes I agree with you that this is not just about the style guide, this is about social relationships.
:::::::
:::::::I guess what is bad is that in arguments you tend to decrease confidence of your opponent:
:::::::* &quot;i'm undoing your edit&quot;
:::::::* 'you're not a professional journalist, i do not believe you'
:::::::* 'your edit count is low, better fix that'
:::::::* 'you didn't read the sources, better do that. i have difficulty saying what it is that you will find'
:::::::* 'others do it like i do, so why not revert your edit?'
:::::::Just looking from the side, this sort of thing decreases the confidence of your opponent in themselves. As a result, for them, raising this confidence back before preparing a response is emotionally challenging. I would encourage you to seek approaches which raise the confidence of your opponent as this may help with the efficiency of the team work.
:::::::
:::::::Another important aspect is not to take their messages personally. If a reviewer is wrong or seems picking on you, it is important to respond without saying 'you are incompetent' or 'you are constantly picking on me, please go away' but instead respond in a way that raises their confidence.
:::::::
:::::::I understand that this may be something that is difficult to do when you are continuously confronted with 'we are veteran wikinewsies and you are not'. But I believe that adding the above described tactics to you will greatly help with not judging each other's competence, instead people would start discussing the core of the argument more and more, leading to less conflicts and more resolutions. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::I do not agree with everything you've said here, Gryllida, but since you've said it politely and seem to be sincere, I'll read it again later and give it more thought.
::::::::But I'd like you to think about it too.  I'd like you to compare two people to each other: Compare Gryllida before reading the sources to Gryllida after.  Which one do ''you'' think is more knowledgeable and credible?  Imagine that Ca2james' next post is &quot;I actually did draft ten or twelve articles under my previous username, Ca1james.&quot; Wouldn't you give his opinion more credence?
::::::::Is it really such a bad thing that I think those things are important? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:36, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Also...  I never said &quot;incompetent&quot; and I never said &quot;fetish.&quot; These words aren't coming from me.  Where ''are'' they coming from? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:37, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Reputation does improve credibility. However, no, reputation is not a countable. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:51, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::My experience is irrelevant when we're talking about your actions. Please stop the ''ad hominem'' attacks and insinuations.
:::::::A style guide encapsulates how articles ''should'' be written. In other words, the guide drives the way things are written, not the other way around. And again, other people doing things is ''never'' justification for any other person to do those things.
:::::::If editors have questions about additional information in an article, then readers will have those questions too ''whether or not the information is in the source articles''. One possible approach in response to questions about things not covered in the sources could be to say to oneself something like, &quot;Clearly there's something about the way I've presented information in this article that is leaving things unclear. What's the best way to tweak the article to either answer those questions or remove the need for them?&quot; Whether you think the specific issues are a problem or not, if an issue is raised then there is room for improvement in an article.
:::::::I also agree with Gryllida regarding decreasing confidence in your opponent when you reply to them; it comes across as tearing the other person down or dismissing them and it escalates, rather than reduces, tensions. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 00:34, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::(Adding: looking at the &quot;just because others do something doesn't mean anyone can do that thing&quot; and why I say that: Say Leslie beats their spouse. Kelly says &quot;hey, Leslie is beating their spouse, so I can too, even though the laws are against it&quot;. Is Kelly justified in beating their spouse just because Leslie does it? Well, no, of course not, because beating one's spouse is intrinsically, morally wrong. That Leslie does it doesn't automatically make it ok to do. This same reasoning applies to even such things as following a style guide. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 00:50, 8 March 2019 (UTC))
::::::::No, this is more like following the speed limit.  If all the other cars on the highway are doing 65 mph, you'd better do it too.  The one car doing 50 mph is the one likely to cause an accident.  There's no moral element to driving at a certain speed the way there is to beating one's spouse, though there are rules involved, so it fits this situation better.
::::::::I think your experience very relevant.  By your reasoning, the things Pi zero and Gryllida said about me at the style guide proposal were ad hominem attacks and you all should have considered it on its merits regardless of what they thought of the proposer's expertise or deficiencies. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:04, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::I did share a characteristic of you, but not for the sake of winning the argument, I don't think so.
:::::::::
:::::::::I did not say &quot;your credibility would improve if you did ... (these changes to you) ... until then I consider you wrong.&quot;
:::::::::
:::::::::I did say &quot;the efficiency of this discussion would improve if you did ... (these changes to you) ... until then I consider you either right or wrong, no comment on that.&quot; [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:26, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::I didn't say Ca2james was automatically wrong either.  I was careful to say just the opposite, but yes, if I've worked on Wikinews and he hasn't, then it's almost impossible for him to know more about it than I do. -Darkfrog
::::::::::Reputation is not a countable (by edit count, number of drafts, time spent at Wikinews etc). [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::The difference between 20 articles and 50 may not be so big, but a guy who's done no articles is not an expert. -Darkfrog
::::::::::::I don't see why not. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:09, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::We need a break.
:::::::::::::We need a break because you are saying things that I do not think you believe.  I don't think you're lying, just that you've got some inertia going and are a bit carried away.  I think you're stuck in a moment where you care more about who's on what side and on winning, a bit like battlegrounding on Wikipedia, than on the core matters of the site.  If you stop and let yourself settle I think you'll find that of course whether or not someone has worked on Wikinews articles matters to whether they're an expert on Wikinews' review process.  The proposal thread is closed, so there's no ticking clock. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:27, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::A side remark, [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;curid=964769&amp;diff=4469160&amp;oldid=4469157&amp;diffmode=source this] is not name calling. His point was &quot;I think edit count is not relevant. Bringing it up is useless and is a waste of time. Please focus on the content of the discussion instead.&quot;, I believe. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 06:04, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I'm willing to come back with an opinion on this subject a week later, if you like.
::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::I expect that I will think that reputation matters, but 'whether or not someone has worked on Wikinews' (for how long, or for how much) does not. Like I say now (and expect to agree with this in the future), for some people, starting from their first edit, their reputation skyrockets above that of other contributors who have a hundred of edits. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 06:13, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::and in some cases it is stagnant at very low, even when they have thousands of edits.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:31, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Since you came back and were polite this time, I'll leave this here.
::::::::::::::::The post was highly aggressive and rude, used inflammatory language, and did not add anything that had not already been said by others.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 07:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Going 65 mph in a non-65 mph zone (or 50 mph in a non-50 mph zone) can still result in a ticket because it's against the law. Sometimes, if the flow if traffic is 65, a person can also do 65 but they are doing so in contravention of the rules and if they get a ticket they still have to pay. &quot;But other drivers were going 65!&quot; will not get the driver out of paying the penalty, and neither will arguing that the speed limit should be changed because other drivers are going 65. The rules are the rules and breaking them can result in a penalty. 
:::::::::A person can understand the rules by reading them, and a person need not have exact experience in something to understand how it works. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 11:39, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::Better a ticket than a car accident.
::::::::::Right, or maybe you'd been reading Wikinews every day for ten years or maybe you'd written a bunch of Wikinews articles and for some reason they didn't show up under &quot;Ca2james.&quot; I also [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;diff=4468241&amp;oldid=4468224 said from the start] that I didn't mean anyone should disregard what you have to say.  I just think if you actually went through review a few times, or had a similar experience on Wikipedia (which you say you haven't), you might be saying different things. 
::::::::::I guess that's why I don't feel like I'm attacking you as a person by observing that you've never written a Wikinews article. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:57, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=4469003 Above], I said I had had similar experiences so where are you getting that I haven't had them? Your focus on me and my experience (and no, you're not &quot;just observing&quot; because you're implying that my views are invalid or to be discounted as  a result) is classic ''ad hominem'' attack because it's an attempt to discredit my comments and focuses on ''me'', not ''my comments''. Which is to say attacking me. So please stop doing that.
:::::::::::In the speeding analogy, what on Wikinews is the equivalent of the car crash? [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 13:46, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::You did? [Reread post] You had someone insist that ''you'' make their changes for them?  Did you do it?  And did you face consequences when the article was then of poorer quality?  I'm not talking about tolerating someone else making changes you don't like.
::::::::::::I am not attacking you or attempting to discredit your comments.  Again, by your reasoning, Pi zero and Gryllida arguing to close the proposal thread because I proposed it was a personal attack and they should have judged it on its merits.
::::::::::::There are a couple different kinds of car crashes.  1) If I failed to revert a change that said something counterfactual, the readers could be misled, as in &quot;the police were investigating&quot; implying that the investigation had stopped. 2) If I produced articles that had past tense where there should be present and so clogged the review hopper with unpublishable drafts. 3) If I produced articles that had past tense where there should be present and the reviewers published them anyway and Wikinews got a reputation for being sloppy. 4) If I went around &quot;correcting&quot; Blood Red Sandman and Qwerty's work so it contained no present tense and so became unpublishable or misleading and left a bad impression on readers. 5) If I obeyed orders to make changes I didn't believe in and then got punished, blocked or otherwise penalized for the resulting poor quality of the article.  This happened to me on Wikipedia.  One admin told me I was required to do something.  Then I did it.  Then I got blocked for it.  I was able to point to the diff with the order but no one gave a $#@%. 6) Probably more.
::::::::::::While I've got you here, I have a question.  If I could show you an on-Wikinews guideline that's been here a long time that says to use present tense (but does not happen to say to use it every time), would that affect your view of this at all? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:06, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
{{od}} Quality is subjective, and what is correct in one place may not be correct in another. I don't always understand why someone wants something done a certain way (although I do try to understand), but I do understand that there are reasons for things. It's not a big deal, really. There's always more than one way to do or say something and none of them can really lay claim to being &quot;right&quot;.

You're twisting the definition of ''ad hominem'' above: what the reviewers have been discussing with you '''is''' your behaviour, which '''has been''' a problem. And which appears to be about to get you a ticket out of Wikinews.

If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, your representation of what happened on Wikipedia is not accurate. I assume you're referring to the situation where you told someone that you couldn't participate in the discussion (which the admin told you to do) and also made reference to a discussion about the topic area (which an admin did not tell you to do, and which was found to be a contravention of your topic ban). Had you stuck to the first part you wouldn't have been blocked. 

One thing that occurred to me about the speeding example: following the flow of traffic speed is an unwritten rule. Ironic, that, given your evident distaste for them. I'm not sure that the accident scenarios you've given necessarily apply because they're mostly based on your insistence that you're being asked to do something &quot;wrong&quot;, which I disagree is the case. 

I don't know if seeing another guideline would change anything, because it would depend in what the guideline actually said and how the guideline fits into the broader context. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 22:50, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
:Are you perhaps talking about six words that were up for a whole forty seconds before I self-reverted?
:You consider yourself an expert on Wikinews.  How about you write those unwritten rules down?  That would solve this whole issue.
:I don't know, man, it's a really good guideline...  But I'm worried that you've showed up here determined not to be pleased with anything I had to say, highly mobile goalposts at the ready. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:50, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
::I put unwritten things it into a personal essay, this allows me to remember it and to receive feedback in the case I got it wrong; and it may become policy if it is useful. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:16, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Exactly!  Yes!  That is what I am talking about!
:::If you think &quot;All drafters must immediately comply with all talk page 'suggestions,' even if they don't agree with them,&quot; then write it down and submit it to the community for approval.  If the community goes &quot;Yes,&quot; then ''all'' drafters should be held to that, not just me.  Or maybe the community goes &quot;Hm, no that's too extreme, but maybe we could do ''this'' instead...&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:49, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

== Guardian attributes this so we probably should too ==

To be clear (in case).  We don't attribute because other news orgs do; not directly, anyway.  We attribute because clueful wikinewsies thought about it and worked out what we ought to be doing.  The principle generally applies to other news sites too, so that in this case when we see the Guardian attributing something that should be attributed, we might say something approving about the Guardian for getting it right. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:03, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
:In what I perceive as your vision of Wikinews, Wikinews should attribute ''more'' often than reliable sources do, so I, a clueful Wikinewsie, consider an in-text attribution by a reliable source a clue.  Also, as you know, I generally defer to the professionals.  How fortunate that there are so many of us with so many different perspectives.  That makes it so much less likely that a mistake will slip through. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:10, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
:I think what you are trying to do with this post is to establish that you don't agree with me.  Duly noted.  Maybe you should make a post like this one where Dan the new guy will see it.  I don't always agree with your vision, but if this is about rendering or keeping Wikinews consistent with it, you should tell the new guys how you interpret policy.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:25, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
::* Well... you're more clueful, on balance, than the average Wikinews newcomer, but less clueful than your evident self-image.
::* Your naive deferal to professional journalists abput Wikinews issues is a fundamental flaw in your approach.  It's not at all simple, of course:  you aren't ''good'' at the sort of individual reasoning wikinewsies are called upon to exercise ubiquitously.  That's not, in some metaphysical sense, a &quot;defect&quot;; some people are like that, and at their best can be highly valuable contributors within a community, in a role with the right sort of structure to it; such as, one strongly suspects, Wikipedia gnomes.  Awkwardly, though, for your fit here, Wikinews isn't shaped that way; this place is made for a different sort of individual.  It hasn't escaped my notice that you've described me as a &quot;logician&quot;, which from context I do think you meant pejoratively though I wouldn't be surprised were you unaware of doing so.
::* You prefer to believe everything is just different opinions, and you rate your own opinions about Wikinews just as high as mine, all evidence to the contrary.  I'm deeply pessimistic on this front.
::* As for what I'm trying to do with my comment here?  You've clearly missed the direness of the current crisis.  I wish, totally unrealistic as it may be, for a way to avert the grim consequences of the situation, hence my efforts yesterday (just about universally unsuccessful) to find something, anything, I could usefully inject as a comment into the situation.  Trying to explain everything to you all at once would clearly be unworkable (in multiple ways at once); raising issues one at a time (though you may notice, I'm not doing that nearly as well as I might, here) is the evident alternative, other than giving up on saving anything from the situation.  I don't like to give up.
:: --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:16, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
:::By the standards Ca2james used not long ago, that could be considered a personal attack.
:::If it's not just personal opinion and preference, then it should be written down in a formal policy or guideline. If it's too ugly to acknowledge, then it's too ugly to do. -Darkfrog
:::What?? That's not at all the definition of ''ad hominem'' I provided above or at all what I said. ''Ad hominem'' is a personal attack when used to discredit the opponent as a person '''instead of addressing the argument the opponent is making'''. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 22:16, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Exactly.  Pi zero is calling me naive and disparaging my capacity for reasoning instead of addressing the point I was making.
::::Ca2james, it came up in a previous conversation that you consider yourself an expert on Wikinews.  How about you try your hand at writing down these invisible policies that Pi zero has so far not been able to put to words? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:38, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::No, I didn't say I was an expert. I'm not. But I do understand what I'm reading, I do understand that unwritten cultures exist, and I've tried to help you understand all that (inasmuch as I understand it). You really don't understand all of that and that's not a bad thing: the problem, and the bad thing, appears because you don't ''care'' to understand all of that. You think you know how things work and you are wrong. But you don't say you're wrong, you say this site isn't doing it your way. No, it isn't, and it doesn't have to. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 00:15, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::If I didn't care, I wouldn't be asking you to write it down for me.  You believe you understand Wikinews and you believe that I don't: Enlighten me.  Write it down in a formal context and submit it to the community to be an official guideline. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

== Definition of politeness ==

Seeing [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;curid=964769&amp;diff=4469511&amp;oldid=4469506&amp;diffmode=source], I found it surprising that you have called the sentence impolite. Looking at [[:wikt:polite]], it says that's &quot;[[:wikt:Well-mannered|Well-mannered]], [[:wikt:civilized|civilized]].&quot;, those two are defined as 
* Having good manners; polite, courteous and socially correct; conforming to standards of good behaviour.
* Showing evidence of moral and intellectual advancement; humane, reasonable, ethical.
Is it really socially incorrect to say that you &quot;do not understand&quot; something? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:05, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
:Yes, &quot;Don't mess with what you don't understand&quot; is rude.
:This person was clearly not here to have a productive discussion about flag removal policy, so I didn't engage with him/her.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
::Do you find &quot;You do not understand how the (thing XYZ) works.&quot; rude too? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:22, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
:::It ''can'' be.  Depends on the context.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:39, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
== Attacking a person versus attacking a behaviour, and how to respond ==

Hi Darkfrog24,

Following on some discussions above, I would like to take the opportunity to show you a few possibly interesting and relevant ideas.

1) Difference between personal attack and criticism

* Personal attack is directed at you.
* Criticism says what is bad, '''and''' provides some supportive reasoning (either valid or invalid).

Examples:

* You are a fool. 
*:personal attack; no criticism
* You do not understand dates.
*:no personal attack; non-criticism as reason is not provided
* You do not understand dates, there is 12 months in a year, not 14.
*:no personal attack; criticism as reason is provided
* You are a poor collaborator. I think when someone asks to make a change, you should do it yourself at least sometimes, not always give it to them.
*:no personal attack as it is directed at your collaboration style and not at you; criticism, as a reason is provided
* You are new, I suppose you don't know anything about how to do dates.
*:personal attack &quot;new therefore do not know nothing&quot;; criticism (with invalid reasoning but at least it is present)

Since you like external sources, here are a few:

* https://www.skillsyouneed.com/ips/dealing-with-criticism.html
* https://www.quora.com/Where-is-the-line-between-constructive-criticism-and-personal-attack-When-things-are-said-behind-a-person-s-back-is-it-considered-constructive-criticism
* https://www.reddit.com/r/LeagueOfMeta/comments/38l200/valid_criticism_or_personal_attack/

2) How to respond: ignore personal attacks; when a message contains a mix of personal attacks and attacks at your behaviour, respond to the latter while ignoring the former

* When people attack your action or knowledge, you should not become offended. It is not a personal attack.
* If it is not a personal attack, it is best to respond constructively. Aim to address the issue, without dismissing it.
* Personal attacks are best ignored (on the spot).
* If a message contains mixed personal attacks and attacks at your actions, it is best to understand the &quot;attack at your action&quot; part and -- while discarding the personal attack -- respond constructively.
* If the personal attacks are repeated, the attacker should be approached at their talk page (NOT in the same topic where they attacked you) a day or two after (NOT immediately on the spot) suggesting which messages you saw as a personal attack and that you would like this to stop.

Since you like external sources, here are a few:

* https://blog.liberationist.org/stop-criticizing-others-it-will-make-you-more-attractive-a1a379e083b2
* https://buffer.com/resources/haters-and-critics-how-to-deal-with-people-judging-you-and-your-work

I hope you find some of this useful. I would be glad to know your opinion about this too.

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:11, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:Such diligence, Gryllida.  I ''do'' like external sources. [takes a look]  I like ''professional'' sources, written by experts, published, that sort of thing.  I read the Quora article and it's good but it's just one person's opinion.  You and I are also people with opinions.  I don't think this guy's better than we are.
:But clearly ''you'' think the Quora article is good, so let's start there: &quot;A personal attack will focus on blame and guilt. Will try to diminish all the person to that error - be it small or big.&quot; That's what I feel is happening today.  Blame is being laid at my door and no one is moving toward the solution: Writing down these unwritten policies so that I may view and understand them.  To cite the other source you offered, I feel the criticism being thrown my way is destructive, not constructive.  Pi zero insinuates that I &quot;don't understand&quot; whenever I don't agree with him.  Yeah it could be coincidence, but I feel manipulated.
:The solution is simple, though probably work: Write down all these rules so that I know they're not made up on the spot for me as an individual.  If Wikinews has a rule that says &quot;All talk page suggestions must be implemented by the drafter, whether s/he believes in them or not,&quot; then that needs to be written down where people can see it.
:Here's the pattern: 1) Someone on a talk page insinuates that they want something or want to make a change. 2) I explain my point of view. 3) I get &quot;How DARE you insinuate that it's even POSSIBLE that you are right! YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE YOU'RE YOU!  Obey your master, dog!&quot; Actually what goes through my head is a lot more intense than that, but we've had too much drama already and I think this is enough to get the idea across.  Bddpaux said something the other day about getting up and moving on, but that doesn't work if I'm the only one letting it go.
:I really appreciate the way you and I can actually ''talk'' about this. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:41, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::I wish to add that I have read every single source you posted here.  I don't put much stock in blogs, but I do think their point 3 is relevant here: &quot;Stop guessing other people’s intention.&quot;
::That's what's going on here.  I keep guessing at why you and Pi zero and others want what looks like doglike submission from me.  If the conduct expectations were written down, I would get to stop guessing. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:56, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I don't think I require doglike submission from people. I would prefer if you didn't dish me into that group. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:59, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Yes, but it ''feels'' like you do.  How can I express &quot;When you do X, I feel Y&quot; in a way that you find acceptable? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:06, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Demonstrate to me what is a doglike submission and what isn't. In my opinion suggesting that a certain change is required for publication isn't. To the best of my knowledge, I haven't gone any further than such suggestions. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:11, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::I will have to think about this one in order to give you a really good example, befitting the energy and thought you are putting into this conversation.
::::::For now, though, did you see [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mummified_%27Crusader%27_found_decapitated_in_Dublin_church_vault&amp;diff=4467621&amp;oldid=4467554 this diff] about the difference between asking for a favor and not?  Part of it is when someone says &quot;do THIS because you are not my equal,&quot; I feel like if I do it, I'll be proving them right.  Like if someone says &quot;You are my dog.  Wear this collar and crawl on all fours,&quot; well you wouldn't ''do'' it, would you?
::::::Another part is what I'm picking up as emotional labor, to put it gently.  You know when you have a real-world boss, ''sometimes'' you have to manage and flatter that person.  You obey and say &quot;Yes, boss!&quot; but it's understood that it's because that's your job, the way we understand that someone standing on a stage wearing makeup is not really Hamlet and didn't really murder poor Polonius.  Some bosses make their employees go &quot;You're so ''smart''&quot; when they really don't think so and glower at anyone who doesn't generally act like they truly agree with everything and not the reality that they are obeying because that's the deal inherent in the job and they'll get fired if they don't.  Sometimes the boss will change his mind and pretend that he's not changing his mind, &quot;No, I've ''always'' hated the color green for our business cards!  How could you be so stupid as to order green cards?&quot; and expect the employees to pretend they don't know that he loved green last week, and spoke about his love for it in three meetings, and is on record in the minutes of those meetings as saying he loved the color green for the business cards.  The matter about suddenly not allowing present tense even though we did the previous week has some similarities to that.
::::::Gryllida, I think you are very good at this but you acknowledge on your userpage that you're still learning English.  I've been writing English professionally for a long time now and I'm a native speaker, so yes, I think I'm better at English than you are, and the idea that I should ''pretend that I don't think that'' bothers me a whole lot.  There's no stage here.  There's no curtain.  There's no established understanding that it's not real. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:07, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

::Does (A) these things being unwritten, or (B) you disagreeing with them, make this blame nonconstructive? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:57, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I'm not sure what you mean.  The criticism is nonconstructive because no solution is offered. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:06, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I don't think that this is required for valid criticism. &quot;This road is unsafe, look it has a hole in the middle&quot; is valid constructive criticism, even though no solution is offered either. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:15, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::I consider &quot;you are naive,&quot; &quot;you are not capable of [the good kind of] reasoning&quot; with no solution offered to be non-constructive criticism. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:46, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::That's a judgment. Does it come together with any meaningful content attached to it?
::::::
::::::Example: &quot;You are forgetful. Every morning when going to school you forget something, either a pen or your lunch or a book.&quot; [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:51, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Your example comes with evidence that the person really ''is'' forgetful.  No evidence is offered here.  I do no think that valuing the opinions of published professionals over that of a semi-anonymous person on Project Wiki is naive. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:09, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

A peripheral remark touched on here, which you've mentioned on a number of past occasions in various terms.  You allude to &quot;why you and Pi zero and others want what looks like doglike submission from me.&quot;  This seems to me to go to the crux of the matter.  What we want is not what you're describing.  On another recent occasion you mentioned a boss-employee relationship, which seems to be getting at the same thing; again, nobody is asking that of you.  We've been unable to get across to you what we're asking for, and the reasons it's not getting across seem to be a mixture of a whole bunch of things variously messy complicated and intractable.  The elephant in the room &amp;mdash;okay, ''one'' of the elephants in the room; it's quite crowded in here&amp;mdash; is, what sort of collaborative relationship ''are'' we asking of you?  I'm wary of several difficulties in contemplating another attempt to explain that:&amp;nbsp; past attempts to explain this to you have failed, with intimations both that the manner of explanation might not work for you, and that the relationship might for one reason or another not make sense to you; composing an attempt to explain it is likely to take a massive investment of time and attention; and there's some doubt in my mind as to whether you'd simply dismiss what I said as eccentric personal opinion &amp;mdash; though that could synergize in complicated ways with some sort of misunderstanding of the message. &lt;p&gt; I'm also interested to address (in another section, and at some better moment if only one can be found) the interesting question of why ''not'' write up what we're alluding to in the form of project documentation; because I do have some answer-like things to offer about that. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:57, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:Well sounds like we're getting somewhere.
:I have several ideas of why you don't write it down, ''one'' of which I've already told you about.
:You once said you want the reviewers to be teachers and the drafters to be their students.  The fallacy in this is that sometimes the drafter knows better than the reviewer on some point or other.  The implication that I could learn things from anyone here is not a problem.  Everyone knows something that other people don't.  The problem is the rejection of the idea that I might have something to teach others.  Not just rejection but significant hostility.  That's one of the things that makes this smell so fishy.  The air must be cleared.
:So I'll go first and clear part of it: If by :attempts to explain&quot; you mean &quot;I went to your talk page and told you that I was right and you were wrong,&quot; that didn't work because &lt;u&gt;you gave me no reason to believe you&lt;/u&gt;.
:If you want me to reject my own judgement and replace it with yours, to believe not what I see but what you tell me, I need something more than &quot;because I am your master and I say so.&quot; Had you been able to say &quot;Here is this written Wikinews guideline.  It has been here for a long time.&quot; or &quot;Here is the archived discussion in which the community agreed on this rule, even though we never formally wrote it up.  Here are several previous cases in which other people were asked to do then what I am asking you to do now&quot; that would prove, at least, that no one was making anything up on the spot. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:31, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:: Well, that does seem, off hand, to be a good demonstration of one of the reasons it'd be a waste of time for me to put a lot of effort into articulating something for your sake; you've got these odd distorted ideas you claim were said to you, that are pretty clearly based loosely on things you were told in the past, modified to fit into the narrative lines you gravitate to (mostly, either dark lines, or lines particularly useful as excuses for disregarding what others say). --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:07, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::&quot;Claim&quot; were said to me?  Which diff do you need? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::Someone being a diligent disciplined student does not exclude the teacher learning something new from them. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:24, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::But here 1) I'm not a student at all and 2) the idea of you learning something from me was nonetheless completely and wholly rejected.
:::The teacher-student dynamic does not work here because teachers can be presumed to know much, much more than their students, because they're adults and the students are children or because the teachers are experienced professionals and the students are not.  For these reasons, a student can be expected to just snap to it when the teacher says &quot;No, do this instead.&quot; This is an all-adult anonymous Wiki where no one's credentials are known.  That level of obedience is not appropriate here. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::: Everyone interested in participating in this project is a student; an uninquiring mind has no place here.  Sadly, no; you're not a student. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:17, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::The key difference here seems to be between inquiring and submitting.  Pi zero, I've taken some initiative and started a [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Darkfrog24/Speed Wikinews essay].  I encourage you to take it as a starting place for expressing your vision to the community. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:29, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::: You are the only persistent contributor to this project I have ever seen who has failed to grasp pretty much any of the core principles of what the project is and how it works.  I've never seen any persistent contributor fail to understand even a ''few'' of those principles before.  Perhaps it's my fault; I spoiled you, tolerated you and kept trying to help you understand what was wanted by demonstrating with fixes to your articles; but other persistent contributors in the past had always tried and succeeded in learning the basics, and even though not everyone became adept at all of it, that was okay because they did know what they were trying for, and cared to keep trying.  And of course you also demand that we either spend all our time doing nothing but servicing your demands that we petition you for permission to have a project that isn't just an extension of your will, or simply allow you to continue exercising contempt for the project and everyone on it.  You're not remotely qualified to write any sort of essay about how Wikinews should work, and the fact that you aren't aware of that is part of the problem. &lt;p&gt; All this started when I was tempted to thrown you a soft ball, giving you an opportunity to agree that you certainly hadn't meant your remarks to sound as if you had no respect for anyone else here.  I was looking forward to completing that review, thought it an interesting news event, hoped the review wouldn't have any unexpected problems and thought it probably wouldn't since I'd already skimmed the article and checked it for obvious copyvio, and thought I'd have it done long before midnight that day.  I went out shopping and came back to find a response from you saying, no, you mean those remarks just the way they'd sounded.  I spent the rest of the day (all the time I'd thought I would be finishing that review and moving on to other things on the queue, by other contributors) looking hopelessly for something to say that could prevent the situation from meaning your work could never be reviewed again.  Finally, when I admitted heartbroken defeat (I anticipate you mocking my honesty, there), that your will to hold the whole project and its denizens in contempt could not be remedied, you said not to ''overdramatize'' the situation.  I dind't think you'd top that... until some of your remarks today.  Like the one about &quot;Wiki where no one's credentials are known.&quot; --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:06, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::You say you want to complete the review  ...what exactly is stopping you?  Do you consider the conversation between Gryllida and me incomplete?
:::::Pi zero, I often think that you are demanding that I service your needs and that you are trying to make this site an extension of your will&amp;mdash;and you will remember I'm not he first one to say so.
:::::Let's focus on one point where we're almost agreed: ''You're not remotely qualified to write any sort of essay about how Wikinews should work, and the fact that you aren't aware of that is part of the problem.'' I wouldn't say not ''remotely'' and definitely not &quot;not aware.&quot; Remember how I kept asking you to do it?  You claim that there are things, invisible but ''massive'' things about Wikinews that I just don't understand and you do.  Yes, I think ''you'' would be the best person to write down what these things are.  Yes, you are more qualified, by far, than I am for this task.  But I get the impression you've decided not to do it.  You've repeatedly said that you don't know how to put it to words.  So I took some initiative and got things started.  Maybe if you give it a try the right words will come to you.  ...part of the reason I started that essay was because of what Gryllida says just below: &quot;the burden of resolving it is mutual and not purely ours.&quot; I'm just trying to do my share of the work around here.
:::::And yes, your credentials are not known.  I don't know whether you went to journalism school.  I don't even know your real name. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:49, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::: You've implemented a spectacularly effective, though I think quite unintentional, denial-of-service attack on the project, drawing us in to this stuff.  That's another thing I evidently screwed up royally by indulging from early on, though perhaps I was pre-conditioned to that mistake, from our en.wp past.  You make comments with multiple misapprehensions embedded in them; there's no possibility of addressing all of them, or often even one in its entirety, so one tries to address some one very narrow point, which goes horribly awry as we fail to get it across and additional side misapprehensions pile up; and then eventually you object that we don't explain things.  You've already failed to understand (or believe) our past explanations, and formulating new ones would be a humongous effort wasted (if it could even be completed) when you neither understood nor believed them either. &lt;p&gt; Who you, or any of us, are outside Wikinews is, for the first cut, irrelevant to Wikinews; not only is there no such thing as a professional wikinewsie, it's inherently impossible for there to be such a thing.  The whole project is tuned to facilitate gathering and applying earned-on-project reputation.  The upper echelons need people who have excellent instincts for judging stuff, including judging other wikinewsies &amp;mdash; which (sorry) isn't you.  Just not one of your strengths.  For many purposes a workable surrogate is professionalism &amp;mdash; figure the people being paid to do something are the experts &amp;mdash; but even aside from its flaws, that has no applicability to Wikinews.  Which... might... still be not a problem if you weren't in denial about Wikinews credentials. &lt;p&gt; (Btw, at the risk of stating the obvious, when you say you disagree with &quot;remotely&quot;, and then say you disagree with &quot;not aware&quot;, you're contradicting yourself.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:51, 11 March 2019 (UTC) 
::::::::&quot;Denial of service&quot;?  Pi zero, is someone making you post here instead of somewhere else?
::::::::I just suggested a moratorium, so I'll just to explain my previous post instead of any additional response. By &quot;I wouldn't say 'remotely'&quot; I mean that I do not consider myself completely unqualified to write about how Wikinews works.  I only think you'd be better at it than I would. When I say &quot;I wouldn't say I'm 'not aware,'&quot; I mean the fact that I repeatedly asked you to write the essay and pointed out how since it's supposed to be about something that you understand and I don't, you'd be better at it, should be considered evidence that I think you'd be better at it.  Does that make more sense now? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:12, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

:I reckon what we are asking is that after a problem is identified, the burden of resolving it is mutual and not purely ours. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:49, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::Depends on the problem.  If the problem is &quot;You do not understand this thing that exists in my head and my thoughts&quot; then it is not possible for me to write those thoughts down for the other person.
::Maybe we could build a FAQ-style structure that you could fill in. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:49, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Okay, I started a Wikinews essay on one of the issues that we've talked about in the past week and a half (one of the less emotionally loaded one).  I think it should be called either [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Darkfrog24/Speed WN:SPEED or WN:WHOSEJOB].  It's basically where &quot;all drafters must obey all suggestions&quot; rule would be if we had one.  I invite and welcome your insight and participation. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:31, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

== The reason for suggesting that you write personal essays about unwritten procedures ==

A cut from the previous section,

I do not think &quot;All talk page suggestions must be implemented by the drafter, whether s/he believes in them or not,&quot; is true. However, in this particular instance I think that 

a) you find it a lot easier to find these unwritten rules; 

b) having them written down is more important for you than for everyone else who just learns them from discussions;

c) having them written down may turn out to be helpful for some people in the future, who find it difficult to learn from discussions; 

d) having it in an essay means that, unlike a proposal to change a policy, any feedback is voluntary and the utility of the essay is of primary interest to its author; 

e) if something that you write in your essay is wrong, everyone gets an opportunity to correct it, which is better than you following a misinterpreted practice silently.

[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:50, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

:a) I don't understand this one.
:b) Yes.
:c) YES.
:d) Well yes but the idea is that if it really is what the community works then it would become a guideline.
:e) Not 100% on what you mean by this.
:I don't think ''I'' should be the one to write the essay.  1) Pi zero thinks that I do not understand how Wikinews works and there have been minimum two me-toos.   2) My speculation about how I think Pi zero wants this site to work is really ''REALLY'' UGLY.  '''Whether I am right or wrong''', it is going to make people upset and angry if I tell them what I think other people want from me.
:I think the best person to write down how this site works or &quot;works&quot; would be Pi zero, but he is not the only one capable of doing it.
:Also, remember, if I'm the one writing a proto-guideline for how Wikinewsies treat each other, it's going to read &quot;We are all colleagues and equals,&quot; which Pi zero and Ca2james have explicitly stated that they do not believe. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:03, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::By (a) I mean that because for me there is no difference between learning from a discussion or from a wiki page, often it is difficult for me to know what it is that you don't grok.
::
::Are you worried about the possibility of you getting it wrong in your personal essay? How would that be a problem? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:53, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Oh but there ''is'' a difference!
:::1) The Wiki page addresses the whole community.  A discussion addresses only me. 2) A Wiki page stays mostly still over time and a discussion cannot help but reflect its own time.  Both these things prove that no one is making up pretend rules just to mess with me.
:::What that means is that if it's just a discussion, I don't know if the person talking to me is just making it all up.
:::&quot;Well the ''rules'' say you have to give me your lunch money/do my work for me/bark like a dog&quot; is an ''inherently suspect'' statement.  It looks like the person is just making it up because they feel like pushing someone around.  And then I say &quot;Oh, where's this rule written down?&quot; and the person says &quot;It's not.  It's in my HEAD.  Just believe whatever I tell you and do whatever I tell you like you were my dog and you'll be fine.&quot; That's also inherently suspect.  This is compounded by my own observations: Everyone here was &quot;There is a RULE saying 'no present tense,' so OBEY IT!!&quot; but they were only saying it to me, even though multiple recent drafters had also used present tense.  That suggests to me that there is no such rule and people were making things up on the spot just because they want me to be their dog.
:::If it's a Wiki page, the speaker can say &quot;See?  That rule was already here before we started talking.  I ''could not'' have made it up just to mess with you&quot; and &quot;See?  That rule really ''is'' for everyone and not something I made up just to mess with you and you alone.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:38, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I said there is no difference for me. I already know that there is a huge difference for you. This is why it is a lot easier for you (but not for me) to see what items are undocumented. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:12, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::The things that I believe need to be documented are whatever these big important principles that Pi zero says I don't understand are.  So I don't really think I'm the best person to write this stuff down either.  (And neither does Pi zero.  [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;diff=4469765&amp;oldid=4469746 YOWZA] does he ever not think so!) But I have started an essay on one of the issues we've talked about anyway, and I've invited the whole community to participate.  Maybe that will get us started and we can move on to one of the principles later, like a stepping stone. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:18, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
== Quality of reasoning: diving into their head ==

Following from &quot;you are incapable of [the good kind of] reasoning&quot; quote above. I suspect it occurs because you [[:wikt:sidetrack|sidetrack]] conversations. Sidetracking is defined as this:

* An alternate train of thought, issue, topic, or activity, that is a deviation or distraction from the topic at hand or central activity, and secondary or subordinate in importance or effectiveness. 

Examples:

* &quot;Hi Darkfrog24! We need past tense. With the present tense it is something we don't and can't, know.&quot; &quot;No, we don't, mass media doesn't.&quot; (could be &quot;Why can't we and don't we know? Mass media uses it.&quot;) &quot;It is wrong and often inaccurate.&quot; (good but vague, because the 'Why can't and don't we know?' question was not asked) &quot;No, it is not wrong, it is professional.&quot; (already side tracked) leading into a conversation about whether being professional matters.
* &quot;Hi Darkfrog24! This improvement would be nice to have.&quot; &quot;Go ahead do it, I will not revert.&quot; (could be &quot;This is an optional extra which is not required for publication and makes the article look too big and this is why I do not wish to add it&quot;, or &quot;this would indeed be a nice improvement to add, it is in source number three.&quot;)
* &quot;Hi Darkfrog24! Please do not mess with tags which you do not understand.&quot; &quot;No, I understand them.&quot; (could be &quot;Hi! I think this tag is not needed because the conversation has been dead for over 11 months. Do you agree?&quot;)

Basically this is a &quot;here is why I do it&quot; focused approach. It means that you are interested in showing your approach, but you are not really interested in knowing whether they agree or what they think. In my opinion it is important to show this.

There are three ways to do it:

# Show them your reasoning, and ask them to provide their reasoning to you.
# Show them your reasoning, and ask them whether they agree.
# Ask them to provide their reasoning to you.

Example:

* &quot;Hi, this tag does not need to be removed.&quot; &quot;Why not? The conversation is over 11 months old.&quot;
* &quot;Hi Darkfrog24! This improvement would be nice to have.&quot; &quot;Would it not make the article too big? Is it required for publication?&quot;
* &quot;Hi Darkfrog24! We need past tense. With the present tense it is something we don't and can't, know.&quot; &quot;Professional mass media uses it all the time, don't you agree with them? And why is it something we don't and can't know?&quot;

This in my opinion may make it less difficult to reason with you. Also, to the best of my knowledge, none of these reactions are submissive.

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:22, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:The pattern I have observed on Wikinews is this:
:1) Someone tells me to do something or insinuates that they want something.
:2) [Sometimes I do it.] I explain why I'm doing it the way I'm doing it or why I don't want to do what they're telling/insinuating&amp;mdash;which is what you're recommending here, right?
:3) Conflict.  Usually in the form of the person getting angry that I didn't immediately jump and do what they wanted in step 1.
:So yes, I think explaining why I do what I do is a good idea, but I've been doing that for years here and it does not produce peaceful results.
:As for the thing about tags.  I don't think the anon actually cares about tags.  I think the anon saw that you and Pi zero and Ca2james were ...&quot;attacking&quot; might not be the best word. &quot;Piling on,&quot; perhaps&amp;mdash;and wanted to join in.  The anon does not want a productive discussion; he/she wants a fight.  The right thing to do is to not answer posts like that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:55, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::I'm going to place a guess here.
::Is it that my &quot;Make the change if you want; I won't revert it&quot; made you feel unappreciated? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:18, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:::It shuts the conversation down and makes you seem like an &quot;administrator of this article&quot;. The reader is like &quot;What??? Did Darkfrog24 even like this idea?????? Or they just don't mind it (neutral)... :-/&quot;
:::
:::Instead you could say &quot;this looks like a good idea&quot;, which is '''encouraging''', and also leaves opportunity for continuing the conversation about how to implement it or what could be an even better idea. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:26, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::::That's fine for when it does look like a good idea, but 1) it doesn't always look like a good idea, and 2) I'm not a liar. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:38, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Usually I think the idea is neutral.  Six to one half a dozen to the other, as the expression goes.  I didn't think how many skin samples would make the article worse but I didn't think it'd make it better either.  Also, there was the extra work of running down the information.  Also, there's the general vibe that I don't want to tacitly indicate that I am a willing servant.  So how would you like me to encourage you to make your recommended changes yourself? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:13, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
===Flash and substance===
Naturally, I've spent the past couple days thinking about this.
Speaking to you as an individual, {{ping|Gryllida}}, is it ''not'' that you want me to snap to it whenever you insinuate you wand something and enact suggested article changes whether I think they're a good or not, but that you want me to adopt a more encouraging, nurturing and supportive ''tone'' to attend to the emotional needs of whoever it is who made the suggestion and so foster a more friendly work environment? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:23, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== Moratorium ==

Pi zero just said on another page that the site has been hell for the past [actually a week and a half].  How do we all feel about a moratorium?  I don't know how this is preventing Pi zero from reviewing the articles he wants to review, but if ''he'' thinks it is, okay. How about we just ''take a break'' from all this obedience/not understanding/personal stuff and do what we actually came to Wikinews to do for, say, seven days, and come back to it on Tuesday the 19th with fresh eyes and calmer hearts? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:24, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:Then you may wish to stop editing, as we will be unable to talk about your edits. I try to do this in the most concise and efficient manner still there is so many observations and questions. I hope you are OK with not editing during this period. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:48, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
::No, I'll keep drafting, and if you guys don't want to review my drafts, don't.  As always, I support your decision to spend your volunteer time how you feel like spending it.  This week, you have felt like talking to me on talk pages. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:14, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
:::What do I do then if I have a query about one of your changes? Like with the specific information you put in, or the timing, or the topic, or how you wrote a message to someone etc? Suggesting I just shut up about that is a bit counter productive don't you think [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:19, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Oh HECK no.  I do NOT mean for you to shut up!!
::::What would you have done about it before the decapitated crusader article?  To my mind, you would do that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:39, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Do you suggest to stop approaching you at your personal talk page for a week, then? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:44, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Not specifically, but if it helps you to do it that way, sure.  It could work. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:45, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
:When you say &quot;this obedience/not understanding/personal stuff&quot;, are you referring to others saying &quot;please obey&quot;, &quot;you are not obeying&quot;, &quot;please understand&quot;, &quot;you do not understand&quot;, and their personal judgments about you? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:46, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
::That sounds pretty close. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I reckon I haven't used any &quot;this obedience/not understanding/personal stuff&quot; on this page previously? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:16, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I don't remember off the top of my head.  Kind of distracted at the moment by Pi zero deleting an essay right out of my userspace. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:18, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
::Basically, Pi zero said that something here, probably the size of this conversation, was tantamount to a denial-of-service attack on the site.  I've invited other participants to stop or take a break at several points in this conversation (except for the anon; that I shut down).  The other party has usually decided to the continue and I am almost always okay with that.  Since Pi zero points out that other people ''not'' involved in this conversation might not be okay with that, I'm suggesting again that we cool it, at least for a while.  It might result in a more productive conversation in the long run anyway. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:02, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

== 'Email' requires login ==

Re [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4469817&amp;diffmode=source], emailing users requires login, FYI. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:39, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
:I did not know that.  I will try to remember not to suggest emailing me to our mysterious anon. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:41, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
== Undeletions ==

Hello,
It took me a few days, but I got around to your undeletion for &quot;downturns&quot; and by the time I did notice there was another called &quot;slowdown&quot;. (Sorry, if the names are not exact).
I agree with you 100% in principle, you should be able to dream up any policy or guideline you feel like as long as it is within your userspace. There are some exceptions, of course (Genocide, spam, harassment, etc.) but generally you could propose most anything and furthermore, you should feel free to work on it in your own user space.
Once finished, you could submit it to the [[WN:Water cooler]] and let people voice their opinions. I can tell you, however, as a practical matter they seem unworkable. I understand you are trying to shorten discussions, but what is the punishment for violating the ''downturn'' rule for example? Do you really want to issue blocks to regular contributors on a project this small? And how long is the block for going over by a few words? I know Pi zero called it a 'game' and looking at it, he's not far off. In my mind, it will boil down to people using abbreviations until the rules make the messages so short one says &quot;GTFO&quot; and the reply is &quot;FU&quot;.
Just for fun, I looked at your recent conversations on various talk pages. It's not universal, but your messages are the ones that get longer and longer as the conversation persists. I am not saying you are the problem ''buuuut'' ... Well, we all have issues to work on. I encouraged Pi zero to restore your pages, but I will equally encourage you to stop fighting for their restoration. Because they will never come to pass and I think we have both written more words about them than you put into them. Already violating the idea of '''downturn''; aren't we? Anyway, I am getting sick of it. By the way, you have some excellent articles published on the  front page. Congrats, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 05:30, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
:Thanks.  It's less these specific essays themselves and more that writing userspace essays is a normal activity around here and I'm alarmed that anyone would try to frame it as misconduct.
:I wasn't thinking of them as anything that would be enforced but rather as a voluntary exercise, for when both parties want to be considerate.  Blocks never crossed my mind.  When people said &quot;unenforceable&quot; I thought they were referring to how to get people do it, but it sounds like you're talking about how to punish people if they don't.  But this is good concrit.  It would work if it were a tradition, but you can't just stand up and say you're making a tradition; it has to just happen.
:Of course I wasn't using downturn in those conversations.  I hadn't had the idea yet.
:Thanks.  They're all team efforts. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:02, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
== user essay template phrasing ==

Is it necessary to get into complicated discussions on the details of my wording? --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:13, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
:It'd probably be more productive to just keep improving upon each other's versions and triangulate toward a good wording, BOLD-style.  I'll go next in a couple hours. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:15, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
::I have serious doubts; I thought that phrasing through.  It's not like I'm eager to write an essay, though.  (&quot;What Words I Chose and Put Where on my Summer Vacation&quot;.)  So maybe sufficient unto the hour is the evil thereof. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:43, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I thought it through too.  Couple hours.  See if you like it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:04, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
:::: The difficulty here is that the term ''vetting'' was pointedly expunged from that template some time back because it's not necessarily how that works on Wikinews.  Which gets into one of those principles-of-Wikinews I sometimes refer to that you just haven't been grasping.  In this case, I do get why the idea doesn't come naturally to you, or, more blatantly, why explanations of it are either incomprehensible or simply unbelievable to you, but for somewhat that very reason I have no effective way to explain it to you.  (Which is not, by the way, that I &quot;don't have the right words&quot;.  I'm very good with words; the real challenge is getting across concepts that aren't shared, and worse, how to deal with concepts that ''can't'' be shared &amp;mdash; which ought to be a problem reserved for science fiction, but it turns out we're actually living in a world like that.) &lt;p&gt; Anyway, where we are is, you want to explain just a bit more of how community essays differ, but ''vetting'' describes a process that doesn't, usually, explicitly manifest as a formal vetting process.  If I were to describe how we do it, in terms that most wikinewsies would likely recognize, I fear it would sound implausible to you.  So I'm looking for a way to describe it that explains more that nothing, doesn't overspecify it (as ''vetting'' does), and is going to sound reasonable to you. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:12, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::It sounds like you want to take out the word &quot;vetting.&quot; Okay, I replaced it.
:::::Look at this from another angle.  I got the impression that you believe that I'm trying to use essays to recruit newcomers to my diabolical viewpoint like some kind of Wikinews Harvey Milk (I'm not, by the way).  But think of a hypothetical newcomer who comes to Wikinews.  That person ''might'' read an essay written by me, but you know what they're ''very'' likely to read?  [[WN:CONTENT]].  [[WN:WRITE]].  [[WN:WWI]].  [[WN:4WP]].  They don't list the principles to which you refer and they have a few lines in there that might contradict them.  Don't worry about me for a second.  Think about communicating with that new guy.  Or imagine it was twenty new guys all at the same time. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:38, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
== Re: [[Wikinews_talk:Original_reporting#Consent_for_audio_recordings]] ==

This query affects policy and other contributors, and requires attention from reviewers or administrators. Would you agree? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:07, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:Yes, this is a suggestion about policy.  It does not suggest changing policy, but the page it concerns is a policy.  I'd say more &quot;the whole community,&quot; but that includes reviewers and administrators. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:10, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
::The problem can not be resolved without attention from reviewers and administrators. Would you agree? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:40, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Well ''maybe'' it could done without them, but that strikes me as unlikely.  I'm sure we could come up with a theoretical scenario in which it was handled without a single reviewer if we felt like a puzzle.
:::Why?  Is the &quot;items to be attended by reviewers and administrators&quot; schedule full or something?  Or do you just want me to post a note in the policy water cooler? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:47, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
== Wikipedia's &quot;talk page guidelines&quot; do not apply here, do they? ==

Re [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24/IDrafter&amp;curid=2864351&amp;diff=4471406&amp;oldid=4471405&amp;diffmode=source] I don't think we have a policy which allows the removal of rude comments from personal talk pages at Wikinews.

In my personal opinion, the content which you have removed should be understood as &quot;this write-up does not adequately represent how this project works, and a shortcut to it is not needed&quot;.

In my personal opinion, also, this task has a low priority. I encourage you to use your essays in your personal namespace as a guide for your own work; if that works out well, I am sure others will propose addition of shortcuts as appropriate. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
:They do apply here.  A few weeks ago I saw a Wikinews policy page that said &quot;we use these talk page guidelines&quot; and linked to the Wikipedia page.  I can try to find the exact Wikinews page if you like but I don't remember which one it was off the top of my head.
:The thread was about &quot;What title do you think would be good for this essay&quot; and Pi zero answered with &quot;Don't bother finding a title because you're TOO STUPID to write essays.&quot; That's heckling.  The rules allow me to shut that stuff down before it becomes a fight, so I'm going to do that. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:45, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
::It'd be great to find where we link to Wikipedia's talk page guidelines. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
:::We do that more than once, actually, but I'll see if I can find it.  The recent conflicts here have had me rereading a lot of Wikinews policy, and it does run together. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:53, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
::I don't think he said you are too stupid. That's a personal characteristic. 
::
::Rather, he said &quot;you do not understand&quot;. This is a characterization of your current level of knowledge, which does not suggest inferiority of your brain. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:54, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
:::It amounted to the same thing.
:::At this point, Pi zero has had lots of chances to write down whatever it is that he believes I don't understand, and we know his fingers aren't broken.  When there's a simple solution, and someone won't use it, then something else is going on.  The most obvious answer to why he's lashing out at me like this is pretty ugly, and stating it here is unlikely to help.
:::When he tries to pick a fight with me in my userspace, I'm going to delete his posts.  He's making us look bad in front of the new guys. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Sharing your lackings with you may feel like shame, but it is not a bad thing. When done without diminishing your intelligence (that one tool that allows you to grow your knowledge), it can lead to making you more informed about what additional work needs to be done. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::The &quot;lackings&quot; as you put it, are not real.
:::::I've been here for years now.  I've seen how this place works.  I don't ''actually'' misapprehend anything.  Pi zero just wants me to think I do.  Are you familiar with the story of the Emperor's New Clothes? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:09, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::I agree you observe Wikinews for a while, but it appears you are not fully following some concepts. It seems you need a lot of things written down, else you face difficulty working with others. That's something that others are unable to address as quickly as is required for your learning curve to be sufficiently steep.
::::::
::::::A somewhat offtopic hypothetical example: do you have documentation at home for the lunch and dinner family procedures as well? I imaging without it, following their unwritten rules is a huge difficulty. Without documentation, you may end up having a meal half an hour before or after everyone else; or you start with the dessert first; or you leave the table before the head of the table stopped eating. Yet usually in the family such rules are not documented. By many people (not all, of course, but many) things like this are learned by requests (someone instructing you to please come to the table as everyone has already gathered) without spelling the rules out.
::::::
::::::Similarly, the writing here is not solo (compare with solo driving, with nobody directing the driver in their motion) and it has never been an official recommendation. Writing that into an essay and suggesting to make it a guideline is a bit disappointing... [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:36, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, if there really is some mysterious principle that I'm just not seeing, then the thing to do is to write it down.
:::::::I'm sorry, what are &quot;lunch and dinner family procedures&quot;?
:::::::It seems you've missed something.  You know how the first comment on the essay talk page is &quot;Hey, Acagastya, ''you'' write a lot of solo articles, don't you? Want to contribute?&quot; Acagastya's process is to call dibs on an article by starting it, then write a draft offline, then upload the nearly finished thing.  Yes, solo drafting is a thing here, and it's been endorsed and supported by other users.  The recommendations in IDRAFTER are meant to prevent the kinds of edit conflicts that Acagastya has had with myself and other users who did not know that's what he was doing. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::SOLODRAFT/IDRAFTER does not propose inventing something.  It's more like a description of something that's already been around for a while but might be hard for a newcomer to see. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:58, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Acagastya's writingn is not solo. After the initial upload, he expands the story based on feedback, if it becomes available. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:02, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::What you're describing is what I mean by SOLODRAFT.  I have repeatedly had conversations with Acagastya about how he doesn't want people editing his articles until he's ready. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:07, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Him not being ready for you to edit directly does not exclude you from writing an edit proposal at the talk page. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:10, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::Since we're talking about the content of the essay, let's take this to the essay talk page. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:29, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
== About direct editing ==

Jumping into the direct editing deprives the author of writing practice. It also wastes the helper's time which could be better spent working on other articles.  Why do you find it more efficient?

Perhaps it seems to you that direct editing is more quick and gives people more complete articles. I do not understand this point: asking for help is very quick and easy. Do you think that they can not read messages quickly? Or do they find it difficult to reply?

Also, if you think that direct editing provides more content for the article and earlier, you can do it in your personal sandbox. This way the original author complete as much as they can, and you merge later. Do you consider this a better option for training newcomers than jumping in? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 06:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:Yes, it is faster and gives the reader more complete articles.
:Why bother with a personal sandbox?  Why add an extra step with all that delay?
:No, I consider collaboration to be the best way to show newcomers how things work here.  Imagine you're a new guy.   You write an article and hit &quot;review.&quot; The next thing that happens is that a reviewer comes and yells at you for not getting it perfect on your first try.  Do you think Wikinews is a fun place to spend your volunteer time?
:&quot;Giving the author writing practice&quot; is not the goal of Wikinews.  At most, it is a means to an end.  We may be an amateur site, but we'e not a training ground.  What we do here isn't practice for something else. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:54, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
== [[Scientists coin Stormtropis genus for smooth-legged spiders]] ==

That's {{tl|stale}}, I can't review as I was involved in editing. I guess you can take it off the review queue to save the precious reviewer time , by replacing the review tag with the stale tag, if you like. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:07, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:Maybe I'll email the corresponding author.  See if they're more interested in talking to Wikinews than the killer whale guy was. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
::In this case it is not ready for review, either. Marking it with {{tl|prepared}} {{tl|original reporting}} may be of use. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:22, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I think this is still not done. The article status should be updated. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 06:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Could you please do this? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:50, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Is there a way I can say &quot;no thanks&quot; that will not make you feel disheartened?
:::::This article got tied up in drama, and I do not wish to perform the aforementioned overt act because it's likely to be misread.
:::::It's possible that Pi zero knows that he should not have deleted my essays but doesn't want to undelete my essays because he feels put on the spot, because he's worried the people who want him to will lord it over him.  If someone else does it, they cannot do so.  This feels like a smaller version of that.  I'm worried how it'll be read in the weird social game with no rules that's going on. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:58, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Okay, thanks I was just checking. I've updated the article status accordingly, hope to hear from you about the original reporting soon. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:07, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::I figured I'd look into [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Talk:Starry_frog_discovered_in_India%27s_biodiversity_hotspot,_say_scientists#Interview the other one] first.  Work's picked up this week, so I've less time for Wikinews. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:10, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
== Temporary undeletes ==

I'm temporarily undeleting both pages.  Please do let me know when you're done (though if I don't hear I'll assume after a while it's been taken care of). --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:55, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:I have requested information on how to do a specific type of page transfer at Meta-Wiki.  If I don't have an answer in a day or two, I'll do it the simpler way.
:I still think you should just undelete them permanently.  It is very disheartening when admins and reviewers go against policy. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:31, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:: There's no reason for a complicated operation.  You're the sole copyright holder of the final versions of both pages.  I've been expecting, once the pages were undeleted, it would only take you moments to take care of the thing. &lt;p&gt; (Btw: Pretty sure we've long since established that each of us disapproves of the other's actions.  On my closure comments and since, I've been filtering out digs at your position; I encourage you to do likewise.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:::I have been.  We're on the same page there.
:::I'll wait for the answer to my Meta question. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:28, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:::: (Just to note, the reason I mentioned filtering was that your immediately preceding comment was less than successful in that regard.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:36, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::...the &quot;disheartening&quot; comment?  That seems mean to you? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:58, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I think I remarked to you earlier to not communicate with Pi zero extensively. Responses to his messages may be appropriate, but nothing that concerns him as a person. This time you have attacked his obedience to the policy on this wiki. Please do not do that. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Gryllida, you seem to be confused about why I am talking to Pi zero even though you told me not to.  I read your suggestion, thought about it, and made my decision.  I am a colleague listening to another colleague's advice, not a subordinate obeying orders.
:::::It also concerns me that you find &quot;disheartening when admins and reviewers go against policy&quot; to be an attack but not the things Pi zero has said to me, like the rationale he gave for the deletions and the claim I said anything improper to SVTCobra.  It's not a personal attack if there's evidence, in this case our deletion policies.  Neither of my userspace essays met any of the criteria, so summarily deleting them was against policy.
:::::I appreciate your efforts to keep the peace, but the double standard bothers me. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:58, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Yes, indeed I was repeating my suggestion. You are free to discard it if you wish. Bothering Pi zero like this may result in a drop of the reviewing productivity on this wiki. We do not wish this to occur.
::::::
::::::Administrator judgments about deletion are backed up by two kinds of evidence: documentation, and precedents. Someone could find the precedents for you, but I don't think this is urgent, particularly if you succeed at finding the new venue where the essay could be hosted. I have provided technical assistance to you at Meta, which is hopefully useful to you.
::::::
::::::I am not sure what to do with non-urgent questions like this. I don't want to make it seem like I am discarding it. I have an organizer, and I could put it into the first week of May if you like. Would this be a good solution? Then we would be able to postpone this task and do more news writing meanwhile. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::I profoundly doubt that any such precedents exist.
:::::::There is another reason I don't want them deleted.  On Wikipedia, I was accused of a whole lot of things that I did not do.  For example, I was accused of harassing a new guy.  I had a ''thank-you note'' posted to my talk page by that very new guy.  I was able to point to it.  If someone comes and says &quot;You were TROLLING on Wikinews!!&quot; I want to be able to point to these essays and say &quot;No I wasn't.&quot; I don't want the evidence deleted.
:::::::I concur that it is not time for another long discussion. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:30, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Okay, thanks.
::::::::
::::::::I guess comments like &quot;It is very disheartening when admins and reviewers go against policy&quot; can be interpreted as an invitation for a long discussion. If you do not think today is a good time for such a long discussion, perhaps it is best to not write comments like this today; instead come back to it at a later time which is more appropriate. I recommend this approach. I hope it is useful to you. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:36, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Since we're talking about diplomacy, allow me to say &quot;look at ''that''.&quot; (TONE: Comment is meant to be positive.) [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:59, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:: This seems to be developing into a misuse of meta. You're proposing to use meta as a storage area for a backup copy of information that, regardless of page deletion, remains available here for adminstrative consultation.  I was given to understand the purpose of temporary undeletion was to rescue your content for use in pursuit of an appropriate generalized guideline on meta (where, I note, your opinions about how Wikinews-in-particular should work would no longer be relevant).  You're being given ''lots'' more time than you need to do that.  I'll leave them up for a bit longer and then delete them again.  If there's a future administrative need for the record, it'll be here. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 03:18, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::It seems there is an official way to store pages like that and I'm looking into how it works.
:::Expect this to take a day or two. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:33, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I just checked and it looks like I need to get a Meta admin or importer to do this for me because I don't have import permissions. This could be a couple days. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:48, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::: If you find a meta admin who thinks this is a legitimate use of meta, we can undelete the pages again for them.  It doesn't sound legit to me. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:00, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Well of course you don't think so, but you're not uninvolved.
::::::I found the correct place to make the request and made it just now.  It will be a lot easier for the Meta guys to see if the request is legit if they can actually see the drafts when they click on the link instead of having to go through some kind of cross-Wiki administrative request. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:09, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::: There's no &quot;of course&quot; about it; this is separate.  The fact that you're treating it as part of the earlier incident, but omitting mention of that reason for your complicated request at meta, suggests to me you're gaming the system.  From your remarks over there it sounds as if you've already got the information.  So I figure on re-deleting the pages before I turn in tonight (which could be any minute now, or possibly not for as much as a half hour from now). --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:30, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Separate from what?  What earlier incident?
::::::::What information?  Pi zero, I cannot import the file because, on Meta, you need import permissions, which I don't have.  I ''have'' to ask an admin to do it for me.  Leave them access to the information they need to make whatever decision you think they need to make. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:35, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::: If your purpose is the development of a more general behavioral guideline, you don't need import. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:54, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::You'll understand why I don't consider you unbiased about that.  Besides, you made it clear you don't want to participate in developing them, so it's not something with which you need to concern yourself.  Give the guys at Meta some time to take a look and make up their minds.  I do not have them at my beck and call. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 05:01, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::My concern is to protect other projects from your seeming desire to export disputes to them from here. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 06:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::Pi zero, you accused me of something I didn't do in a formal context.
::::::::::::Maybe you meant it dramatically, but that doesn't mean no one would ever take it literally.
::::::::::::That's what happened on Wikipedia.  Someone got dramatic, made up some exaggerations, mixed them with out-and-out lies and the admins were too busy or too tired to actually look at what I actually wrote.  If someone calls me a troll or heaven forbid tries to file a complaint at some point in the future, I want to be able to point to the essay and say &quot;See?  ''That'' is trolling?&quot; even if no one looks at it, just like I was able to point to the thank-you-for-helping-me-when-those-OTHER-guys-harassed me post from that new guy and say &quot;See? The so-called victim doesn't think ''I'' harassed him,&quot; even though no one looked at it.  At least ''I'' can look at it so I don't go crazy and think I really did go back in time and murder President Kennedy or whatever.  Think of it this way: Someone else established that I have to do some proactive defense before you got here.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::How about we export the essay to .xml file which can be imported to another wiki as it includes the content as well as the history; email it to Darkfrog24; and then remove the pages from this wiki? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 05:51, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Because I need a Meta sysop to import them for me, and it would simplify the process if they can see what they'd be importing without a fuss. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:41, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Seeing that the essays were deleted today, I'll leave the decision about this export to Pi zero.
:::::
:::::You can also self-host a wiki on your home laptop (using dynamic dns) and import it there. Installing MediaWiki on a debian system takes about two minutes. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:00, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

== Climbers article ==

.....looked interesting. Any way it could be freshened up a wee bit??--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 18:28, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:And here I thought this was going to be a dull day.  I'll see if there are any new developments. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:48, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::The most recent stuff I see on a two-minute web search is from March 9, I'm afraid.  This one may have gotten past us.
::Ordinarily I'd suggest interviewing someone by email, but this is a death-in-the-family situation. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:51, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

== Thank you for writing about discoveries, Darkfrog24 ==

[[File:Leopard Tree AdF.jpg|thumb|right|Image by Arturo de Frias Marques.]] Thank you for writing about the discovery of species and the weather, Darkfrog24. They are really interesting events. The manner in which mass media writes about them is shallow and vague, and you taking them to Wikinews makes for a clear report. 

I am also grateful for your understanding, and for your asking of valid questions, in various discussions. I am hopeful personal essays become a useful note-taking technique for you, to complement the existing documentation without editing the existing documentation directly, and without necessarily requiring any approval or vetting procedure.

Cheers, --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:15, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:Thank you for your kind words, Gryllida.
:I can see my essays going to community status once they're finished, though. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:26, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::I'll take that long discussion, if you move it to a separate section and confirm that yes, you would like to have a long discussion. :-)
::
::I don't think such a counter-argument diminishes my gratitude to you for the things that you have done, or their potential. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:24, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Nah, I just don't want it to look like I'm agreeing with you and then have someone accuse me of being inconsistent later on.  People treat inconsistency like it's a war crime. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
== Evidence regarding present tense ==

Nice, Pi zero said earlier &quot;'' ... &quot;are looking into&quot; is inaccurate because it claims something we don't, and can't, know ... ''&quot; Does [[:w:Present_continuous#Common_uses]] pass as evidence for it. This verb form is used &quot;To describe something which is happening at the exact moment of speech&quot;. Pi zero was objecting to reporting that the investigation is happening at the exact moment (of publication) because this fact is unconfirmed. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 18:06, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:No it does not pass as evidence for it.
:Pi zero can be a very logical person and sometimes acts as though the English language were more logical than it really is under actual use.
:News articles are a snapshot in time.  In English, it is understood that the present tense refers to an event ongoing at the time of reporting, not at the time of reading.  Here's a source: [https://englishforjournalists.journalism.cuny.edu/2012/11/07/tense-about-tenses/] City University of New York.
:If you find this expert credible, we could email her with this specific question. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:45, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::Yes at the time of reporting not reading,
::
::Say we report on Thursday &quot;police are investigating&quot; means we need a source that says that the investigation is ongoing as of Thursday? Is there a source for that? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:24, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::The way we work, I'd say using the present tense from sources printed Wednesday is still okay, so long as there is no reason to expect that the investigation has since stopped.  Again, if you want to consult the expert, I'm game. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::We are not reporting expectations only verifiable facts? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:31, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::Yes, this is how we report verifiable facts in English.
:::::You don't have to take my word for it.  What kind of source or expert, on-Wiki or off, do you find credible and impressive?  Let's not waste anyone's time showing you something you won't care about.[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::To provide you with the source I need to know what is the problem here.  I do not fully follow it.  To simplify it here is a series:
::::::# We agree that we only report verifiable facts.
::::::# We agree that present tense relates to what is ongoing at the time of speech.
::::::# We agree that publishing 'police is investigating' today would mean the fact 'police has an ongoing investigation at the moment of publication'.
::::::# We agree that publishing such a phrase would require that the reviewer somehow verifies the fact. Typically the sources are from a day or two ago, or several hours ago.
::::::# We agree that the reviewer usually does not have access to such a current source that would allow the reviewer to verify the fact.
::::::# We agree therefore that the fact 'police has an ongoing investigation at the moment of publication' is not possible to verify.
::::::# We agree therefore that the phrase  'police is investigating' can not be published in an article at Wikinews.
::::::
::::::Please let me know which part of this list you disagree with. It would make it a lot easier to find the best source for it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:33, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::No, I meant ''I'' would find ''you'' a source.  Just tell me what kind you respect.  I was offering to do the work.
:::::::Okay.  We do not agree that &quot;police are investigating&quot; is impossible to verify to a reasonable standard given Wikinews' lag.  If you read enough source articles (which you are already doing if you review Wikinews articles) then this will eventually click for you.
:::::::Maybe it is time to let this rest.  Let everything everyone has said settle in your head, read some source articles ''without'' the pressure of a WN conversation and see how you feel after all the emotions have cooled down.  -Darkfrog

I think you wish to make an ''assumption'' that, if a source said &quot;police are investigating&quot; two days ago, then they are still investigating. I am not comfortable with this assumption. It is not only because two days is long and they may have finished the investigation; it is simply a matter of principle of not making any assumptions.

If they said it two minutes before I click &quot;publish&quot; I would not be comfortable with this, either. I would wish to write, in some kind of English that is deemed acceptable, that &quot;they were investigating as of two minutes ago, and we do not know whether or not they are investigating now&quot;. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:06, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
:It's not an assumption.  It's how the English language works.  Read enough of our sources, which I figure you're already in the habit of doing, and this will click for you.  No need to rush it.  It'll happen on its own.
:Bddpaux complained about the two of us having a perfectly civil, reasonably productive discussion over on the mosque article, so it looks like perfectly civil discussions aren't allowed on Wikinews.  We'd better stop. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:12, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
::What I mean is that reporting 'they are investigating' requires making an assumption that during the 2 minutes or 2 days or whatever else the lag is, the investigation did not stop. This is in reply to your last comment here, and has nothing to do with the English language. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:38, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
:::You have made it clear that you think it involves making that assumption.  Have I made it clear that I think it does not?
:::If you don't want to wait for this to click for you in time, the only other thing to say would be for you to tell me what kind of source you would find credible.  You clearly don't intend to just take my word for it, and I can respect that I may have to run down a resource or two, but I've heard you out too and I'm not convinced.  Time to accept it and move on before a third party complains again. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
:::: Re your remark above about &quot;how the English language works&quot;.  You're pointing at things done in msm and saying &quot;see, they do that, and they get paid for what they're doing, so it must be okay&quot;.  Which doesn't at all follow, btw; it's ordinary for some poor practice to become ubiquitous in a profession.  In this case, it's not about how the English language works, but rather about precise, or imprecise, use of whatever language one uses.  Here on en.wn we're very precise in our use of language, and tend to deplore the sloppiness that creeps into msm.  It's one of the several areas in which we expect to do better than most of our msm sources. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:20, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::We've been through this already, Pi zero.  Accept that I do not agree with you and move on.  I've shown my sources and explained my position, and you still have the right to prefer your own opinion to mine.  Respect my right to prefer mine to yours.
:::::To outward appearances, you didn't care about this until very recently, approving articles by myself and by other drafters that used present tense in a professional way.  Changing your mind isn't a war crime, but you should say &quot;Hey, I changed my mind.&quot;
:::::Let me see if we can move on fruitfully.  I request your opinion.  Scenario: On the talk page, someone proposes a change, in tense, in content.  The drafter obeys as you seem to want me to obey.  After publication, it becomes clear that the readers were misled, and we have to do a retraction.  To your mind, whose fault is it?  Suggester or implementor? -Darkfrog24
::::::You're assuming your opinion carries as much weight as {{ping|Pi zero}}'s. It doesn't. You don't have to agree with anyone to follow the style guide: you just have to accept that you are being asked to do something you disagree with, ''and find a way to do it''. [[User:Ca2james|Ca2james]] ([[User talk:Ca2james|talk]]) 16:17, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::My opinion actually carries more weight than Pi zero's ''to me''.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:16, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::: Emphasis on ''find a way''.  If there's a problem that needs fixing, how you fix it is up to you.  Suppose the existing phrasing isn't SG-compliant because it uses present tense.  You consider what would happen if you simply changed the present tense to past tense, and conclude that it would be saying the wrong thing (or that it would be misunderstood, or whatever); well then, that isn't the way you should be fixing it.  You should be finding a different way to fix it, that works for you ''and'' is SG-compliant.  Finding a third way that doesn't have either of two problems is a basic technique for moving things along rapidly and smoothly on Wikinews (or, for that matter, on Wikipedia or most any sister project). --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 17:55, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::I don't believe that it is not SG-compliant.
::::::::You didn't believe it was not SG-compliant until this month.
::::::::If you want to keep things moving rapidly and smoothly on Wikinews, then accept that I disagree with you and move on.  Per [[Wikinews:Writing_an_article#Essential_steps|WN:WRITE]], among other policies and guidelines, I don't have to make changes to articles if I don't want to.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:16, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::* For the point about a third way &amp;mdash;which is a matter of collaboration versus obstructionism, and not specific to Wikinews or even to wikis (it's more of a life lesson)&amp;mdash; it doesn't even ''matter'' whether it's compliant with the style guide.  A version isn't okay with user A, another version isn't okay with user B; so when A says the existing version isn't okay, and B changes it, as a matter of common sense B doesn't chance it to a version B isn't okay with.  The goal is to find something both are okay with.
:::::::::* You are creating a long-term-unsupportable burden on reviewers.  Nobody's forcing you to write articles in a way that creates that burden; the English language isn't forcing you to; and I don't think you're unable to wield the English language effectively.  There are only two ways to &quot;move on&quot;: either you contribute without doing that, or you don't contribute.  We would greatly prefer the first of those two possibilities, which is why we engage you in dialogue about the matter; but we ''need'' one or the other.
::::::::: --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:50, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::I promised not to revert anyone even if they did something that I think is wrong, so we're good.  No obstructionism.
::::::::::It wasn't an unsupportable burden on reviewers last month.  You have had zero problem with drafts like the ones I write at any point in your time on Wikinews.
::::::::::I cultivate good writing habits for my job.  Even if I were willing to produce content with improper English for Wikinews (or anywhere), I am not willing to risk accidentally doing it at work.  Please respect this boundary. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:01, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::: Nobody has told you to use improper English; that's &amp;mdash;sorry to be blunt&amp;mdash; just silly.  You've been making two different kids of statements about this that aren't accurate, and since I've got an instinct to point out inaccuracies I tend to mention both and there's then confusion between the two.  You've been saying that people are requiring you to use a certain kind of English, which is false; as I've pointed out repeatedly, you're being told certain things should not be done, and what you do instead is up to you.  That's the point that really matters.  Quite independent of that, you've been saying that certain constructions (which nobody is requiring you to use) are improper English, when &amp;mdash;supposing we are talking about the same thing&amp;mdash; they are not.  The second point, however, doesn't matter nearly as much exactly ''because'' nobody's requiring you to use that particular construction; the concern is to avoid gratuitously switching around between tenses, not to use a specific construction to accomplish that end. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:54, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::You and I have a difference of opinion on this matter.
::::::::::::I will continue my pattern of never edit warring and respecting other parties' right to edit and change my work as part of our established collaboration process.
::::::::::::I would like to stop talking about this&amp;mdash;for now.  People have complained about our talks.  We're not getting anywhere, and this issue is too tied in with the creepy power dynamic stuff.  I feel like you're trying to get me to say &quot;uncle,&quot; and over a matter that no one cared about until very recently.  Best to let it sit for a while and [[Wikinews:Etiquette#Principles_of_Wikinews_etiquette|come back to it with clear eyes later]].  Let all of that dissipate.  Until then, I plan to, as Bddp put it, &quot;just report the news.&quot; If you want to change the tenses, go ahead.  I promise no edit warring over this (or anything, as usual). [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:10, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
:{{od|:::::::::::}}We [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Darkfrog24&amp;curid=964769&amp;diff=4473515&amp;oldid=4473495 can not] delay, and the present situation is not a complete solution. To resolve this, in addition to not reverting, I suggest against submitting an article with the present tenses in it for review. Especially for things which are not eternal; &quot;police are investigating&quot; is not, while &quot;Paris is a capital of France&quot; is. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:45, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
:I decline your recommendation.  This isn't really about the present tense.  If it hadn't been that, it would be something else.  I'm not a servant or employee.
:Time to ask: Would you, Gryllida, rather have no draft at all? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:32, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
::I'd prefer the draft existed in {{tl|develop}} state until and unless it is ready. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:02, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
:::That's what I do already. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:07, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
== Happy Easter, Darkfrog24 ==

Hi Darkfrog24

Happy holidays this Easter (19th to 22th is a long weekend in the UK). I hope you have some great and sweet time with your wonderful friends and family.

Here is a cake for you:

[[File:Chocolate buttermilk pound cake, January 2011.jpg|x200px|{{image source|Divya Kudua (flickr)}}]]

See you around,

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:01, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
Aw, thanks G! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:23, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
== Troll feeding ==

Regarding that side discussion on the neurosurgery article talk page:  please don't feed the troll. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 18:55, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
:You think Ssr is a troll?  The guy's user history goes back to 2007 and he or she has composed articles for Wikinews.  They swear less than that anon and they do more work around here than Ca2James, so I think Ssr should get at least as much patience as the less-deserving of those two. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:04, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
:: Of course they're a troll.  I remember when they left, and I see the content of what they say. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:09, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::: &quot;Troll&quot; is someone who doesn't mean what they say and is only trying to start a fight.  But Ssr's posts could be sincere frustration with our deletion rate, low readership and arguable redundancy with Wikipedia, all of which seems plausible.  Also, consider that the post is about Wikinews in general and not any one person.
:::Speaking of stuff directed at one person, over the years, I've told you to stop encouraging this person and asked you for support against someone who was literally cursing at me.  Remember why you said no.  I'll keep an eye on Ssr in case they do something trollish but no I won't promise not to talk to them.
:::If Ssr declines to talk about solutions, then perhaps he or she should be invited to blow off that steam somewhere else, but just pointing out a problem isn't trolling. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:16, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::::Yeah, like [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Jjmbo_Wa!es this guy].  ''That's'' a troll. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:50, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::::: You're misjudging Ssr's motives. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:31, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::Could be.  I don't know the guy that well.  I'm judging based on what I see.  If the guy starts cussing at you or making trouble, I'll be all for taking action, but I've seen people say way worse things here on Wikinews.  Let's not make a bigger deal wondering about what Ssr might do. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:38, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::: You care way too much about cussing.  I'm interested in content. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:47, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::The reason I focus so much on cursing is that it isn't subjective. Is &quot;$#@%&quot; a curse word?  Yes it is/no it's not.  No quibbling.  Someone can write something just as bad without using curse words.  But Ssr didn't.  Like I said, if he starts making trouble, I'll support asking him to take it somewhere else, but he hasn't started making trouble. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:55, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::: Of course curse words are subjective.  Just ask whether &quot;bullshit&quot;, in the Frankfurtian sense, is a curse word.  And yes Ssr is making trouble. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:06, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::What trouble?  Is something happening off the talk page somewhere? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
:Ssr opposes fact check prior to publishing. I do not think there is anything constructive to say to them, that they do not know. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:33, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
::Well he didn't say anything anti-fact-checking when I was around.
::Right now, this conversation is longer than the exchange between Ssr and me.  If he really is as rotten as you say then I'll see it for myself soon enough, and if he doesn't act rotten, then it's all of our gain. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:41, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
:::It is my understanding that he favours quick publishing over completing the fact check correctly, particularly in the cases when fact check takes over two weeks. Perhaps it is not obvious from his words, but here you have my understanding. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:18, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::Okay, that's what we shouldn't bring up in front of Ssr, then.  If Ssr thinks anyone is saying, &quot;Hey, do you still hold that WRONG and STUPID position that we should publish quickly and not do our wonderful, PERFECT review?&quot; S will be tempted to go, &quot;That's not wrong or stupid and review's not perfect!! YES I DO!!&quot; If we're worried he's here to start a fight, no need to start it ourselves. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:24, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::I've already brought this point up in their sight, twice: here and also at their talk page. In both places, I would openly admit that 1) our reviewing practices are not perfect, 2) work is in progress to improve them, and 3) while people suggesting to abolish peer review altogether is not uncommon it should be done elsewhere. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:33, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::Inviting S to be part of the solution.  I like it.  That's pretty much what I did on the Neuroscience article talk page. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:53, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::I think that their personal talk page can be a more appropriate venue, as 1) the discussion topic is not related to that particular article, and 2) their tone is a bit toxic and discouraging suggesting that it is better to bring it up in a place that is less likely to be read by others (articles talk pages are read more often than contributors' personal talk pages). 
:::::::
:::::::In either case as this contributor has started out in a toxic way, they might fail to have a constructive response, and a sysop may have to terminate the discussion (in either venue) with a request to not continue unless a constructive solution is found. I hope you are able to cooperate with such a request in the case it is required. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:04, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Please don't make this about whether I'm going to obey like a good little doggie. That bothers me a lot.  Makes ''me'' feel the need to prove you wrong.  Just don't go there.  The power dynamic here is weird enough. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:09, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:{{od|:::::::}}I am asking for your cooperation in the case a sysop considers that further continuation of a discussion with ssr is unproductive. This is a common shared goal of improving this site, that leads to all involved parties winning in the case it is successful.
:
:This is in contrast to little dogs being asked to obey, of which they receive no gain. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:42, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::After having sent this I now think that there is nothing wrong in little dogs obeying what they are told. They receive gain in the form of less stick punishments, more food rewards, and more time spent doing enjoyable things with their owner in the case they spend less time training.
::
::Obeying is something children do in a family and it usually is a healthy commitment of children to the relationship. The same occurs in the relationship of a teacher with a student and is also a healthy feature; on the contrary, children and students who do ''not'' obey can be a problem.
::
::This does not exclude the possibility of the children, or students, raising their concerns about rules in case they want to improve them. I've seen many cases in which a student or a child communicated with their supervisor and came to mutual agreement about a new modified set of rules to obey. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:46, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::And I'm saying &quot;don't ask.&quot; When you put on airs and tell me what to do as you so often to, I have to either obey you and let you think I'm your servant or make a point of not obeying you so that you don't.  Do not put me in that position.  Talk to Ssr if you want to.  Don't if you don't.  Leave me out of your plans.
:::EDIT CONFLICT: THAT IS THE PROBLEM. ''We'' don't have an obedience relationship.  ''I'm'' not your dog, your kid, your student or your employee, but you keep acting as if I were.  On several subjects, such as English writing, I find I know more than you do.  I'd give you lessons, adult-to-adult if you wanted.  You could go find some actual children or dogs and cultivate their obedience, but do not expect me to play pretend.
:::Leave me out of your plans for Ssr.  If I see a conversation and want to participate, I will, like I did with De W's unblock request.  Right now, I don't think S did or said anything wrong on the article talk, and I think you aren't doing such a bad thing by asking him if he has any ideas for how to improve Wikinews, but do ''not'' ask me to commit to any plans.  I don't make promises when I do not know what they will entail. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:58, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::Comparing obedience with that of a little doggie implies lack of trust to its owner with the judgments that they are making. Is that so? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:21, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::I usually enjoy theoretical discussions, but other people have complained about them here on Wikinews.  Before this goes any further, what do you want to accomplish with this conversation? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:23, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::I'm exploring your perception of obeying as a humiliating kind of interaction. I want to learn more from you about this angle. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:27, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::To address the complaints (if you care), there is [[WN:IRC|live chat]], for which I personally recommend {{W|Quassel IRC}}. The downside is lack of transparency, as only a dozen or two people at most will be able to read our discussions. The upside is that it is in real time, and information can be shared quickly. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:41, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::I don't feel like doing that right now.  Perhaps some other time. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:44, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:{{od|:::::::}}Does that apply to live chat only, or to the exploration of the obedience as well? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:45, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::Both, yes. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:48, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::This may involve your continued exposure to requests which may leave both sides unhappy (the requester unhappy with your lack of obedience, and you unhappy with being asked in the first place). Are you sure you want this to continue to occur, as an alternative to a peaceful discussion in which I try to identify the core of this disagreement without adding any restrictions? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:54, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::Simple: Stop making such requests.  There is no need for you to do so. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:57, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::: As a direct consequence of our functions as admins and reviewers, we routinely make requests ranging from mild suggestions and advice, through strong suggestions and advice, all the way up to requirements.  None of which are this mindless-obedience thing you've repeatedly described.  All evidence suggests you don't grok any form of obedience other than the mindless/abject sort, creating a serious handicap for you and major problems for others here as well.  (This evidently isn't the ''only'' significant difficulty you've having here that's causing problems; but it's one of them.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 21:05, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::And yet you get so irritated when I refer to reviewers as my equals.  Pi zero, when you want to know what I do and don't grok, ask me to tell you what I'm thinking.  I've had my eyes open and it has become clear that the &quot;treat reviewers like teachers/sources&quot; model is inappropriate because the reviewers are, among other problems, not sufficiently consistent with written policy, each other, or themselves over time.  Not a war crime, but not usable either.
::::::The review process appears to be the ''only'' time that obedience or hierarchy of any kind is endorsed by written Wikinews policy, and then it does so in limited fashion&amp;mdash;Gryllida's authority is over articles, not people.  Right here, however, Gryllida is telling me, &quot;Do you promise to support action against Ssr, a person whom you've seen do nothing wrong, even if it should happen that Ssr is right and the sysop is wrong?&quot; and I'm saying &quot;Don't put me in that position.  Leave me out of it.&quot;
::::::If Ssr really is so rotten, S will do something rotten where I can see sooner or later, but considering I've seen you cry troll about people who merely did not agree with you, it stands to reason that that may be all Ssr did. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:26, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::: There is no &quot;and yet&quot; involved.  I was addressing a ''single'' difficulty, one that had just been mentioned and whose resolution, if achieved, could lead to improvements even if other difficulties remained unresolved.  Specifically, you evidently do not function effectively in the sorts of asymmetric collaboration involved.  The collaborative difficulty might (potentially) be addressed even if other difficulties remain in place, ''and'' some of those other difficulties (such as the &quot;and yet&quot; you mention) might be more intractable as long as the collaboration difficulty remains. &lt;p&gt; I lack confidence in your estimation that I've 'cried troll about people who merely did not agree with me'. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Me.  You said it about me.  You called my essays trolling, and they're not.  I know because I was with me when I wrote them. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:02, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::If we continue like this, you don't trust anything I say. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:47, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::[https://www.inc.com/yoram-solomon/3-critical-prerequisites-to-build-trust-in-your-team.html (1)] [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:08, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::Basically you are saying &quot;When you have a suggestion that I take a different course of action, such as stop talking with ssr after I started it, or start adding information to a draft that I did not plan to add previously, I do not want you to make these requests. I want to stay isolated, continue to do what I am doing, and do not need any such advice.&quot; In my opinion this '''alienates''' you from others. I am proposing that you utilize the energy of others to your own benefit: I think this can lead to you learning new things that you did not know before, as well as accomplishing goals that you would be unable to accomplish previously. 
:::::
:::::* For instance, when they ask some work to be done and it seems too massive, you show appreciation and invite them to do a part of the task.
:::::* For instance, when they ask you to stop doing something, you show appreciation and invite them to address problems which seem to be unresolved, which you originally wanted to address by continuing your original activity.
:::::
:::::I am seeing both of these kind of interactions good for you, as well as for others. Of course, for these wonderful things to occur, you should show that you believe that my completion of a part of a task would be appreciated by you and you believe my output would be accurate and useful, and that you believe that my suggestion to stop a particular activity is worthwhile and you are willing to address the original problem together in a more efficient way. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:24, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::Currently I see no indication of your belief that output of my work is valuable. Same with Pi zero's reviews of your articles. If they are unappreciated or unwanted, they can stop. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::The review isn't for me.  It's for the reader.  It doesn't matter if I appreciate it or not.
:::::::This is an amateur website, and although Pi zero once guessed (correctly) that I have professional experience, we are ''all'' acting in amateur capacity.  In that way, we are all equals.  Asymmetrical collaboration doesn't work because no one is better than anyone else.
:::::::Gryllida, let's flip this around: Look [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Climate_change_has_exacerbated_inequality_among_nations,_say_researchers_from_Stanford_University_in_US&amp;diff=4477265&amp;oldid=4477263 here].  You can probably tell I've been in science news for a long time, long before I came to Wikinews.  I know a lot about it that you don't.  By cramming yourself into a position of artificial superiority, by putting on airs with &quot;no no no ''reviewers'' are teachers and drafters are students,&quot; you lose the chance to improve because you have put yourself in a frame of mind where the lowly drafters are ''being bad'' if they correct you.  If you think of all of us here as colleagues, then you're ready to see what everyone has to offer.
:::::::To bring this back to the original issue, I think you and I have very different ideas of conflict resolution.  But in this case, you and I both did the same thing: ask Ssr if S knew of any solutions to the problems raised.
:::::::I'll state what I want from this conversation: For it to end.  Any final words before we let all this cook in our heads for a while? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:01, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::In any social group, everyone is better than you, otherwise you have no value from participating in the group. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:07, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::I do not think I have ever heard that particular idea before. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:49, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::To be more precise, everyone is better than you ''at something''. (To my knowledge, suggesting that people completely avoid directing you in your work implies they are worse than you ''at everything''; a position that is doomed to fail, unless a person is working in absence of others.) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:23, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::But learning is not the primary goal of Wikinews.  Writing the news for our readers is.  That some of our drafters and reviewers may learn a few things occasionally is a side benefit. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:46, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::Does each act of accepting a learning opportunity --ideally every time one is offered-- lead to more effective news writing? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 04:54, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Around here?  No.  As I said, usually, the only thing one can learn is what that reviewer happens to want in that moment.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 11:12, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Is the seeming inconsistency of reviewer feedback a result of your perception? It seems introducing you to a concept in written discussion repeatedly and consistently results in your annoyance rather than your noting it down somewhere. I don't think this annoyance should occur. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 12:22, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::No, it is not my imagination or perception.  Remember, I can go back and look at previous articles.  You've seen me do it.  I'm not working from memory.
:::::::::::::::Also, about reviewers saying things more than once and my finding it annoying.  Consider this: Reviewer Robby says &quot;You spelled that word wrong.  It's 'greh,' not 'gray'!&quot; and I say &quot;Nope, it really is 'gray.' The other option is 'grey.' Here's a dictionary.&quot; Then Reviewer Robby tells me two weeks later, &quot;STOP SPELLING 'GREH' WRONG!&quot; Of course I'm going to be annoyed.  So if you told me something more than once, maybe you just didn't convince me that you were right.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:31, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Yes I think it is a problem of not convincing. Not a problem of reviewers being whimsical or wanting one thing today and another tomorrow. So since you read the same thing from reviewers multiple times you can put effort into reaching agreement, it is a process that both sides need to work on not only reviewers themselves. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:13, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::That's only the case in situations where there isn't a clear right/wrong, like when it's only a matter of opinion on both sides.  If I have a dictionary that says &quot;gray&quot;/&quot;grey&quot; (and lots of source articles and previous Wikinews articles that spell the color that way) and Reviewer Robby doesn't, then no it is not on both sides.  I do not have to come to agreement with Reviewer Robby.  Reviewer Robby needs to educate himself.   If Reviewer Rachel and Reviewer Richard also say &quot;No!  It's 'greh'!!  Spell it the way Master Robby told you to, or else we'll punish you!  Now ''apologize'' to Master Robby for lecturing him.&quot; then all three of them need to educate themselves.  Or they are playing a creepy game in which I have not agreed to participate.
:::::::::::::::::Key issue: Sources.  Dictionaries.  Wikinews articles.  Professional articles.  You'll notice I'm not asking Reviewer Robby to take my word for it.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:24, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::Wouldn't informing him to the point of reaching agreement make news writing more efficient? --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:44, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::I think this conversation has turned productive.  You have asked a good question.
:::::::::::::::::::The issue is that I can't ''make'' Robby agree with me.  Robby ''should'' look at the dictionary and say to himself, &quot;It really isn't 'greh' after all!  Even if I never admit that I was wrong, I will also never tell drafters to spell it 'greh' ever again.  I'll drop the matter&quot; but usually Robby goes &quot;Dictionaries don't count!&quot; and if you show him a previous Wikinews article/written policy/etc. instead he'll go, &quot;''Those'' don't count either!&quot;
:::::::::::::::::::My options are then either 1) obey like a dog/slave/servant/{{w|Waylon Smithers}}/etc., ''lie'' and tell Robby I agree with him and do a disservice to the reader and embarrass Wikinews by putting 'greh' and Robby's other mistakes in the article, 2) waste my time and patience by coddling Robby like a nursemaid, taking away &quot;gray&quot; and writing a bulky, unnecessary &quot;color between light black and dark white&quot; workaround just because Robby, or 3) show Robby the source once or twice but then accept that he disagrees with me and say &quot;I will not spell it 'greh.' I will explain why not again if you want&quot; and then drop the matter.  Assertive but not aggressive.
:::::::::::::::::::Now if you can think of a 4) that'd be great, but it has to be something ''I'' can do. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:43, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::I find options (1)-(3) unacceptable with (3) being the worst. Option (4) can be continuing to inform Robby until agreement is reached. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:44, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::::So in your eyes, I should 4) tell Robby over and over that he is wrong, linking to the dictionary/Wikinews policy every time until he is finally worn down and caves in?  That does not happen.
:::::::::::::::::::::What happens is that Robby will run to the disciplinary system and say &quot;Darkfrog24 is harassing me!  Darkfrog24 always tells me I'm wrong even though ''I'm'' a reviewer, and that means I'm always right!  Darkfrog24 is being disruptive by not agreeing with me!  Darkfrog24 is disrespecting me by thinking a dictionary knows spelling better than I do!&quot; Here on Wikinews ''I'' have been blamed for &quot;disruption&quot; when I showed evidence.  You were there.  You saw.  On Wikipedia, I even had someone claim I was ''lying'', that I'd made up the information in the sources I showed ''and I really did get punished'' even though I had those sources right there to show.
:::::::::::::::::::::So I will stick to 3). [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:55, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::::You really dislike this Robby, don't you? &quot;Telling over and over that he is wrong&quot; is REALLY not handy. Could you just ask him, &quot;what dictionaries do you use?&quot; and look up the word there and show the results to him. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:47, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::::::Reviewer Robby is a useful fiction.  But the things he does are real.
:::::::::::::::::::::::I tried that and it doesn't work.  You may remember my asking &quot;Do you guys have any sources that back up your position?&quot; in previous disputes.  You remember what happened next, don't you?  It was either some version of &quot;''I'' don't need a source&quot; or &quot;''you'' just don't understand.&quot; I think I understand just fine.  Asking for sources only works when the other person can say &quot;Yes, I have a source; here it is!&quot; but that almost never happens.  Again, your form of conflict resolution requires me to depend on the other person acting in a certain way.  I can't make them go find a source that might not even exist.
:::::::::::::::::::::::May I suggest a 12-hour break so that this conversation does not flood the &quot;recent changes&quot; link? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:00, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::::::Do you really dislike the fictional Robby? The fictional response that you have provided to him was really anything but handy. Two things. 
::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::1) I think that when a person does not trust a dictionary and you ask them which dictionaries they trust, &quot;I don't need a source&quot; is invalid. It is their own fault that they refused to accept your source; the burden of sharing what sources they find acceptable is on them. If they do say 'I don't need a source', just ask them, &quot;Do you really not trust any dictionaries? I don't think this is the case, and indeed it would also make it very difficult to come to agreement about spelling. Please tell me how to choose a dictionary that we could both use.&quot;
::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::2) &quot;You just don't understand&quot; is in my opinion easy to act on: just say &quot;I really want to understand. I will do my best. Please explain it to me.&quot; [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:27, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::::::::I will sit here for 12 hours, until 12:27 26 April UTC, and not add any new messages until then. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:28, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::::::::::I realize I did just ask Pi zero to ask me what I was thinking if he wanted me to know, so I'd be a big {{w|patootie}} if I rebuffed you for doing exactly that.  But we should slow down so that we don't clog the RC for other Wikinewsies.  On a larger Wikiproject it wouldn't matter but it does here.  I composed this reply last night and waited to post it.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::In the past few years, studies have shown that offering people evidence that contradicts their opinions just makes them dig in harder: [https://qz.com/869587/using-science-in-an-argument-just-makes-people-more-partisan/ Science information] [ New Yorker] [https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/this-article-wont-change-your-mind/519093/ The Atlantic article] says &quot;The people who dismiss your claims, or '''even those who just ask how you know''', are not people you can count on to automatically side with you no matter what,&quot; and that is what is happening here, I think.  I make it very clear that no I won't side with people based on identity, but that's what's wanted.  EDIT: The more I read this Atlantic article, the more useful I find it.  I recommend it highly.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::Fictional Reviewer Robby allows me to describe the kinds of things that reviewers do around here without targeting any one person.  If I say &quot;the time Acagastya did this&quot; or &quot;the time you did that&quot; or &quot;when Pi zero said the other thing&quot; it would be more confrontational than necessary.  Robby is a useful fiction.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::Yes, I agree that &quot;I don't need a source&quot; is invalid.  But it has happened, both on Wikipedia and here on Wikinews, and the parties have told me why they do not trust dictionaries/other sources.  I have asked Pi zero to write down his underlying principles many times.  He has said he does not know how to put them to words.  I have come to believe that they do not exist.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::So I guess what I'm saying is that your ideas aren't bad, but I tried them many times and they did not work.  The more I think about and experience this type of conflict, the more I think the best thing to do is expose people to the resources they need to educate themselves and then let them do it at their own pace. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 10:55, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
:{{od|:::::::::::::::::::::::::}}While you say &quot;I tried them many times and they did not work&quot;, now I have suggested you new ways how to respond to &quot;I do not need a source&quot; and &quot;You do not understand&quot;. To the latter, &quot;please write your underlying principles&quot; does not work; &quot;I will try to understand. I will do my best. Please explain it to me.&quot; could possibly work better. Would you like to give it a try?
:
:Yes, Robby is useful fiction. I am glad that we have him here. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:36, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
::I have already tried something similar to that already, though a little less servile in tone.  It was more like, &quot;Take your time.  Whenever you feel like writing it down, I'll read it.  No hurry.&quot; I don't think it's a dumb idea; that's why I tried it, but it does not work.  I think we must simply accept that we have differing views and work around them.
::Did you get a chance to read the Atlantic article?  I already knew a little bit about the issue, but it was a ''real'' eye-opener all the same. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:41, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
:::Is there anything servile in emphasising your commitment to trying to understand, and your clear wish that they please explain it to you? In my opinion these two points are key, and a clear signal of your dignity, whereas your response nearly misses them. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:02, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
::::Yes there is.
::::Part of the problem is reviewers putting on airs.  Claiming to know better or to be better than other contributors here, whether they really do or not.  If we all treated each other as colleagues most of the time it would not matter if I said something a little submissive once in the while; it would be interpreted, correctly, as excess politeness.  But there is this game of pretend going on, and I do not want people to think I have consented to play.
::::Did you get a chance to look at the Atlantic article?  I cannot recommend it highly enough. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:38, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style=&quot;background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;&quot;
|rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;&quot; | [[File:Team Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style=&quot;font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;&quot; | '''{{int:wikilove-barnstar-teamwork-title}}'''
|-
|style=&quot;vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;&quot; | Thanks for collaboration. Your help was very timely. If it were not for your support, I would not have completed my work. [[User:Дмитрий Кошелев|Дмитрий Кошелев]] ([[User talk:Дмитрий Кошелев|talk]]) 06:21, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
|}
Thanks!  I love barnstars! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
== do it yourself ==

Hi Darkfrog24

I'm quite '''offended''' at &quot;''I mean it looks like Gryllida made this suggestion just because G feels like suggesting something, feels like getting involved and having a hand in and having the article reflect his/her own voice and vision. I'm fine with that, so long as G does it him/herself, and I'm trying to be polite about it.''&quot; at [[Talk:Newly discovered theropod shows another avenue to flight, say scientists]]. It is '''disappointing''' when others not only forget that my suggestions are not out of my personal pride or authority but for the benefit of the readers whom I want to make more informed, but also when others expect that questions which I ask are well within my competence to address in the story myself. While this can be the case for many stories, clearly this is not the case here. I '''appreciate''' you asking me to confirm this, which [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Newly_discovered_theropod_shows_another_avenue_to_flight,_say_scientists&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=4479807&amp;oldid=4479806&amp;diffmode=source I did].

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 01:19, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
:Well I'm sorry to offend you, then, but I'm surprised to hear you say that's not why you made the suggestion.  It really does look like that's what's going on.
:If you believe a given change is to the benefit of the readers, then why not ''just make it''?  Why go on the talk page and ask me to do it?  If you're uncertain, why not make the change yourself and then start a talk page thread?  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:28, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
== argument ==

Hi Darkfrog24

When you want to persuade someone about that point -- 'paper says' -- why not start with asking the other person what do they think of the concept and of your source? Do you really need to '''''start your response with &quot;you are wrong&quot;'''''? I think this is something people learn at a very young age before they commence school. It is a more important and fundamental concept than names of dinos and the eras. Is this not so?

I'm just asking, because not only lack of your usage of this principle is decreasing the efficiency of interactions with peers and reviewers, but also explaining this to you is a laborious task. I don't think many people undertake it. I just wanted to quickly check whether you are aware of the procedure.

I am hoping that your answer is not &quot;But asking them for an opinion about my concept is me being a slave. I do not want to do that.&quot;. If this is the case, just write 'Yes, it is.' and do not put effort into spelling it out; then I will attempt finding supporting documentation.

Thanks and regards, --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 07:48, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
:Are you talking about the &quot;you happen to be mistaken&quot; that I said to Pi zero?
:Pi zero has already told me what he thinks of the concept and of sources&amp;mdash;he's not impressed with them.  Why ask a question that he has already answered?
:The goal of that post is not to persuade him.  It's to just make an offer of a source quickly so he can say no and we can move on.
:I don't expect Pi zero to ''be'' persuaded.  Remember the Atlantic article I showed you about how offering people proof doesn't tend to change their minds?  I don't know what to do other than offer proof, so that's what I'll do until I think of something else.
:If you mean there is some persuasion technique that you know about that would be appropriate here on Wikinews, please do toss me a link to an article about it.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 10:22, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
::[[User:Gryllida/Persuasion]] maybe for a good start, ''if'' you are interested in persuading and not just spending time. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:36, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
:::Persuasion ''or'' everyone just accepting that we disagree with each other and moving on.
:::When people expect me to believe that I'm wrong/stupid/etc. with no proof, I feel a disrespected.  Showing me proof would be easy. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:00, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
::::Wait a second, &quot;Persuasion&quot; ''was'' the link!  I checked out your essay and I like it.  I think on this particular issue, Pi zero and I are both dug in.  There's emotional baggage attached, but it's got some good stuff for preventing new conflicts from becoming entrenched. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:25, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
:::::Technical note -- Links are colored in blue here. Sometimes people also mark them in bold.
:::::
:::::I'm glad you like it. Thanks for sharing that. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:05, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
== How you read news ==

I would like to read news every day, and am looking for help. How do you read your news? What software do you use? (I use mPages RSS client for Firefox, but I would be happy to learn what you use.) --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
::I use Firefox too, G.  I like the Guardian and subscribe to the New York Times, but I got ideas for some good Wikinews reports bu listening to NPR in the car. -Darkfrog
== Fram incident on English Wikipedia ==

Hi {{PAGENAME}},

I have not been around here for a long time. I gave up trying to contribute, but was thinking of you recently when I stumbled on this wiki-controversy and saw it was being covered by slate, buzzfeed and breitbart, and particularly by The Signpost which has devoted to it several articles (one of which has been deleted) in the last two issues. Freshness should not be an issue with statements continuing to be made by Jimbo, WMF, Arbcom, you name it. 

I personally believe that more mainstream news sources would cover this story if they could figure out what was going on. Wikipedia has become too much of an old boys network with a secret language that few can follow. It is open and transparent only to insiders.

I also believe that Wikipedia has arrived at the fork in the road. How they resolve this may mean life or death to this movement.

So how about it? Up to the challenge? Cheers, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 06:14, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
:Do you mean you want someone to draft an article about the Fram business? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 10:38, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
::Thanks for responding. Not sure what you mean by ''draft an article'' - is this wiki-news terminology? What I was hoping for is a  wiki-news  story explaining  this incident which is very confusing, not only to people who do not understand wikipedianese, but also to most people who are totally immersed in it. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 14:36, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
::: Re drafting an article, see the first pillar at [[Wikinews:Pillars of writing]].
::: Also to keep in mind, [[Wikinews:Newsworthiness#The Wikimedia exception]].  (No, I'm ''not'' saying we couldn't cover it.)
::: I've been thinking myself this is a crucial moment.  It's also a really ''intense'' exercise in [[Wikinews:Neutrality]]. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:18, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
:::: Thanks for dropping by @Pi zero. I don't have the time at the moment to read the information you linked to, and am glad to see that you are not completely ruling out a wikinews story. A well-written and vetted story about this incident, even though a challenge as you say, can be used as a source for articles on the topic at various wikipedias. The English wikipedia community has afded its copy because at the time there were not enough RSes but there are at least two other wikipedias that have allowed it, for  now. Cheers, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 15:42, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::Yes, Ottawahitech, &quot;drafting&quot; means writing the article draft.  But I'm afraid you haven't confirmed that it's the Fram business you mean.  I'd love to see some links to the articles you mentioned. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:03, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::Yes,do, I mean the Fram business. Links to Wikipedia articles can be located through Wikidata. Links to the individual articles at the signpost are on enwiki. Google does a great job of finding everything else, at least for me (not sure if it provides the same links to others). I would love to have the time to provide those links, but I am on an unreliable connection, on an unreliable device, and to top it all some software keeps changing what I type. Cheers, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 01:08, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Nasty!  Good luck, man. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:14, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
== Dupdet ==

I'm a bit concerned about how, well, ''anyone'' might use dupdet if set loose with it without... some sort of guidance or something; not sure what would be effective.  We specifically and particularly do not want people to think in terms of only avoiding verbatim copying, as that might lead to copying with word-level subsitutitons here and there &amp;mdash; synonyms, verb forms, and the like &amp;mdash; which does not avoid accusations of plagiary.  It's all more frustrating, from my perspective as a reviewer, because we ''want'' our reviewer edits to provide intensive feedback to reporters on what to do differently, but in the case of distance-from-source the best solutions involve extensive medium-to-large-scale rearrangements of text, which reviewers are ''not allowed'' to do as they'd then have to disqualify themselves.  It's a puzzle, how most effectively to encourage best practices.  Thoughts? --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:52, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
:Solution: ESSAY!!
:If you want people on Wikinews to do things a certain way, write an essay advocating that way of acting.  It might become a guideline or policy one day.
:You and I have had our differences, Pi zero.  We still have them, in fact, but you have seen me use and quote your essays with enthusiasm.  An essay with examples is a wonderfully non-confrontational way to show a reporter what you want.  Perhaps you and I could work on one together.  I do have an anti-plagiarism scpiel that I wrote for some students that might do to start. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:58, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
::{{ping|Pi zero}} Okay, I've got the skeleton of an [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Darkfrog24/DistancefromSource essay] up.  Let 'er rip! [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:16, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

::: [Decanting some thoughts on this subject.  Keeping in mind, time for writing essays comes out of development time for dialog and dialog-based tools which, in turn, comes out of time for review...]
::: Though I do like a good essay &amp;mdash;they have their place&amp;mdash; I feel it's not always the most effective way to deliver how-to knowledge.  Depending on the circumstances and the recipient.  I'd actually been thinking about other means.  However, yes, an essay could be useful.  In this case, it's been discussed, and attempted at least twice that I know of, over many years.  There was brianmc's attempt, at [[Wikinews:Plagiarism]]; as we're discussing composition of essays, there's also some interesting discussion on its talk page (noting, my own attitude toward his essay has matured since).  He had in mind not so much a how-two guide as something to convey the importance of taking it seriously.  And then there's my own effort:  {{nowrap|[[User:Pi zero/essays/How to use sources without plagiary]]}}.  Over the years I've discussed that essay, mostly I think with BRS, but the discussion has probably largely been off-wiki, or scattered here and there so there'd be no way of recovering the concrete record.  To explain where my thinking for it started:  A remark I've sometimes heard from others, and thought a few times myself, is &quot;but there isn't any other way of saying it!&quot;; not envisioning what else to do seems to be an especially common, difficult, and frustrating experience for anyone trying to use sources without plagiarizing them, to which it's just adding insult to injury to then be told, when one goes looking for help, &quot;write it in your own words&quot; (or, &quot;use your own words&quot;).  The question is, ''how do I do that?''  For which I found a startlingly illuminating experience was the first time I reviewed one of BRS's synthesis articles.  Synthesis sentences often drew information from widely scattered points in the sources, and source sentences often contained facts that got distributed to widely scattered points in the synthesis, resulting in a whole that was remarkably straightforward to verify from the sources yet didn't remotely resemble any of the sources at any level from overall organization down through paragraph and sentence structure to lower-level wordings.  I was reminded, actually, of the difference between ''listening'' to a Joplin rag and ''playing'' it, where from the inside one can see the structure of the thing in a way that just isn't visible (or, not to me anyway) from the outside.  I wished there were a way to share this inside view with newcomers struggling to understand the scope of possibilities for &quot;using your own words&quot;.  I imagined presenting in parallel a synthesis text and two sources, with highlighting to show which parts correspond to each other, and letting the reader click on different parts of the text to select which parts they want to see correspondences for.  Two major troubles with this idea were the lack of suitably interactive wiki pages, which resulted in my setting that essay aside in favor of spending a bunch of years ''developing'' [[Help:Dialog|interactivity]], and the lack of two sources for use in such an illustration that could be hosted on the wiki without (ironically) copyright violation.  I hit on the idea of using something from fiction old enough to be in the public domain, which is how I got started on the example that's under construction for the essay. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 19:20, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
::::Hm, not terrible...
::::What I put in my essay about the tool was &quot;Dupdet ''looks'' like it's a way to identify duplicate text so it can be rephrased.  But you should use it to ''count'' stretches of duplicate text.  If you've got more than two, overhaul the article.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:01, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
::::: Interesting.  Two things that come to mine for me about dupdet: (1)&amp;nbsp;the word-sequences it detects are often clues to much longer passages that differ from the source only by superficial word-level substitutions, so that a human has to study the dupdet output with an eye to similarities of context; and (2)&amp;nbsp;when rephrasing is wanted, it's important to include structural rearrangements in what one does rather than applying mere word-level substitutions.  The word-level-substitution-isn't-adequate theme I've found important to emphasize. &lt;p&gt; Notice the pattern, in these three essays (brianmc's, mine, yours)?  The pattern I see is that everyone has a different idea of what should go into an essay on this subject.&amp;nbsp;:p&amp;nbsp; It matters partly because it greatly retards exporting ideas from one such essay to another.  There are some facets of your arrangement I quite like, but have no immediate clue how to integrate with my own essay. &lt;p&gt; I notice, btw, one of your examples involves saying that &quot;''Coolest Reliable News'' described Smith's actions as very brace&quot;, but that's not a good example because it's a subjective call by the news source and, therefore, we wouldn't report it except in those rare situations where the news source becomes part of the story. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:07, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
== Iranian article ==

Sorry this article didn't make it. I am deleting it soon, if you want to paste some/all of it over into a sandbox page for later reference. Your call. --[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 18:25, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
:Which Iranian article?  Thanks for the heads-up. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:27, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
::Can't remember the exact name, but it appears to be gone now. Just added the Aband template to your Brazilians article as well, if you want to do the same.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 18:37, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
:::Eh, Wikinews is pretty much a &quot;freshness be a harsh mistress&quot; site. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:38, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
== [[Sao Paulo]] ==

works because it's not actually the cat, it's a mainspace redirect to the cat. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 13:41, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
:Yes, it quickly became clear it was the tilde above the a in &quot;Sao.&quot; A common issue with cats here on Wikinews. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:33, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
:: We do consider it an acceptable style choice to use the no-diacritics form in an article.  Though I can understand wanting the usage in the article to match the category tag.  (Myself, I no longer see the two as linked, after much cat-work.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:17, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
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Sincerely,
&lt;/div&gt; [[User:RMaung (WMF)|RMaung (WMF)]] 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
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== [[:Category:Fish]] ==

Did I get the science bits correct in setting up this category? Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 05:40, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
:Ditto for [[:Category:Sharks]] --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 07:29, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
::They look okay to me.  There's a bit of a kerfluffle in the taxonomy community about &quot;fish,&quot; but the bottom line is that we're communicating with our readers, who are likely to define fish in the manner popularly understood. (Short version, a lungfish and ceaolocanth are both more closely related to humans than to tuna, but we still classify them all as fish.  Here, enjoy some [https://varkarrus.tumblr.com/post/187730925542/that-rabbithare-post-is-messing-me-up-id pictures].) [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:35, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
::: {{ping|SVTCobra|Darkfrog24}} If there's a kerfuffle, our readers &amp;mdash; who are research-y enough to go to the category &amp;mdash; should basically know ''that''.  This is getting heavy for the intro, so maybe shorten the intro and put some stuff in a usage note? --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:53, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
::::I think the definition of &quot;fish&quot; currently given in the category's lede is good and will satisfy anyone who knows about the kerfluffle, though perhaps I misspoke in calling it such. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:01, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::Nevertheless, I reworked it a bit, retaining the same elements, but hopefully making it a bit more clear. As a side note, my impression was lungfish were long ago not considered like other fish and if there was any recent reclassification it involved hagfish. Anyway, that's just a layman's impression from the far, far sidelines. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 21:39, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::The only rule about English that doesn't change over time is &quot;write for your audience.&quot; If someone comes to Wikinews and wants to read about lungfish, will they expect them to be listed under &quot;Fish&quot;?  I think that yes they will.  If that changes ten years from now, we update the category, but I consider our audience well served with the layman's impression. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:43, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::: The question isn't whether lungfish get listed under Category:Fish.  The question is whether someone who is researching in our archives ought to be made aware that there may be some instability over the meaning of the term. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 22:10, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::::So far, said instability is strictly about cladistics.  Again, not something our readership is likely to care about.  It might enter the popular consciousness eventually, but it isn't there now. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:34, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::::: Popular consciousness isn't the issue, nor is expert consciousness.  Possible discrepancy between the two, though, is just the sort of thing one mentions in a usage note.  (It looks as if it now reads somewhere along those lines, giving the researcher something of a heads-up.  I'm kind of appalled by the absurd balooning of taxa in recent years; &quot;superclasses within the subphylum&quot;, indeed.  What ever happened to &quot;King Philip Came Over For Good Soup&quot;?) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 04:54, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::It was replaced with &quot;Kermit and Piggy Cursed Our Filthy Gym Shorts.&quot; Honestly, though?  Genomics.  Back when cladistics was getting started, people barely knew about genetic associations.  They did the best they could and classified animals based on observable traits.  However, with fish, there's the fact that there are only so many ways to move through water efficiently.  Even birds have a bunch of different body types that work reasonable well for different niches.  With aquatic organisms it's tail-up-and-down, tail-side-to-side, or manta ray. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:07, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
== &quot;okay, I hit review on this once last night and once this morning, and the request didn't go through TWICE&quot; ==

As the maintainer of the software that implements that button, I need to know as much as I can about any problems with it.  What did these request-not-going-through incidents look like? --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 17:16, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
:They looked normal.  The last-night time, I don't remember if I hit the review button or went into the code and changed &quot;develop&quot; to &quot;review,&quot; but the this-morning time I definitely hit the button.  I didn't turn off my computer or close the window until after the process appeared to have completed, taking me to the next screen.  It looked like it had gone through, like always.  In the Newsroom screen, the title still appeared under &quot;Development,&quot; but some lag in that is normal. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:02, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
:: Very strange.  Btw, there is a &quot;refresh&quot; button in the newsroom that brings it up-to-date. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:12, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
::: Okay, here is a further thought on this, fwiw:  The dialog tools are ''client-side'' software; that is, they run on your machine.  So if you don't actually see the modified page with the {{tl|review}} tag on it, it's a good bet the operation hasn't completed yet. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:48, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
== Three tips ==

Three tips (which I hope will be useful for you not in just this one story but also in others)

1)  Similarity of structure

I would like to remark here that the similarity of some passages to sources -- not in phrases but in the order that they go one after another -- is quite troubling. There is parargaph 

&quot;Police said they were called to Fishmonger's Hall shortly before 2 p.m. local time, where Khan had attended a conference on criminal justice and prisoner rehabilitation, called &quot;Learning Together,&quot; run by the University of Cambridge's Institute of Criminology. Khan had been wearing a fake suicide vest, police said, adding that the attack started inside Fishmonger's Hall. Khan stabbed &quot;a number of people&quot; inside the hall, police said, and The Times reported that one of the two killed died inside the hall. &quot; (source)

&quot;According to police, they were called to Fishmonger's Hall at Cambridge University around 2:00 p.m. local time. The University had been hosting a program called &quot;Learning Together&quot; for criminals wishing to rehabilitate. Khan was attending a related event. Police also said that Khan claimed to be wearing a suicide vest, though it was later found to be a harmless fake. &quot; (yours)

As it is a feature of author rather than article I am commenting about it here. It is a bad mix of background with details without connection between these pieces. Can you please avoid this? 

2) Missing details

Also some important details about the third person removing the knife and police surrounding the criminal with guns out are missing in the wikinews report. I hope this is not on purpose...

3) Attribution

Also it is important to note where the information comes from - lots of the information about how the event went is either from police or from social media and the source of each information should be stated clearly for the readers to be aware.

Thanks, [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:47, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
== Move alert ==

Hi.  In case if you were working on the CDC article and have not saved your edit, I have moved it to [[US Centers for Disease Control sends measles experts to Tonga, Fiji, American Samoa]].  Don't lose your edits.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 18:06, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
:{{ping|Acagastya}} This was most conscientious of you; thanks. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:42, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
== Oops ==

sorry, didn't mean to interrupt if you're editing the article. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:01, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
:If you mean the stampede article, I was done.  &lt;strike&gt;A single-edit thing.&lt;/strike&gt; A felt-like-a-single-edit thing.  You are conscientious as ever, Pi zero. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:03, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
== Greeting folks ==

You left a nice note of greeting on that user's talk page.  I think that's great; a friendly greeting to a new user is altogether a good thing.  Alas, that particular account had the clear markings of a spambot (generic introductory message saying their gender, where they're from, and some supposed interest, followed by something like &quot;take a look at my blog&quot; with a link to some completely unrelated commercial site, often in a non-English language that isn't even remotely consistent with the persona they just claimed).  I block several spambot accounts of that general sort per day; but in this case I felt bad about it, because I really did like the nice note you left them.  Anyway, I wanted to leave a note of approval for the spirit of you greeting. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:51, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
:The possibility did occur to me.
:Possibility #1: Imogen is human.  I have provided a happy greeting.  Our chances of a long-term wikinewsie have increased.  Good effect points, say positive 1200.
:Possibility #2: Imogen is a bot.  I have made an ever so mild fool of myself.  Negative effect points, say 5.  Mitigating factor: If it is a bot, it will be deleted along with the post I made showing my mild foolishness.
:It was a calculated decision.  I am good at math.  You probably made a similar one before making this post.  Good effect points to you. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:39, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
== Collaboration effort: analysis; 5Ws ==

Hi [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]].

This year you have written the following.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
!title
!comments or corrections made
|-
|[[Solar panel efficiency could be boosted 30%, say scientists]]
|[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Solar_panel_efficiency_could_be_boosted_30%25,_say_scientists&amp;oldid=4550281 &quot;H&quot; not answered; 'affordability' neither attributed nor supported by figures]; wrong order of paragraphs?
|-
| [[Easter Island mayor blames lax traffic standards for truck-statue smash]]
|[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Easter_Island_mayor_blames_lax_traffic_standards_for_truck-statue_smash&amp;oldid=4550494 &quot;H&quot; not answered]
|-
| [[Canadian government representatives meet with Wet'suwet'en leaders over pipeline]]
|&quot;elected councils&quot; unexplained; one para copied from source
|-
| [[COVID-19 may spread like flu, say scientists]]
|[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=COVID-19_may_spread_like_flu,_say_scientists&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=4547837&amp;oldid=4547836&amp;diffmode=source over generalization (corrected by reviewer)]; [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=COVID-19_may_spread_like_flu,_say_scientists&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4547841&amp;diffmode=source attribution missing (reviewer)]; 
|-
| [[World Health Organization names new coronavirus COVID-19]]
|'H' missing; numerous claims vague and not attributed - [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=World_Health_Organization_names_new_coronavirus_COVID-19&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=4546435&amp;oldid=4546434&amp;diffmode=source reviewer], [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=World_Health_Organization_names_new_coronavirus_COVID-19&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=4546175&amp;oldid=4546173&amp;diffmode=source again]
|-
| [[First foreigners die from coronavirus in Wuhan, China]]
|missing 'When' in lede; attribution missing; rm analysis; vague figure - [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=First_foreigners_die_from_coronavirus_in_Wuhan,_China&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=4545792&amp;oldid=4545787&amp;diffmode=source reviewer]; [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=First_foreigners_die_from_coronavirus_in_Wuhan,_China&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4545796&amp;diffmode=source again]; [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=First_foreigners_die_from_coronavirus_in_Wuhan,_China&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4545811&amp;diffmode=source again] [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=First_foreigners_die_from_coronavirus_in_Wuhan,_China&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4545812&amp;diffmode=source x2]; [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=First_foreigners_die_from_coronavirus_in_Wuhan,_China&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4545817&amp;diffmode=source reviewer]
|-
| [[Seismic activity continues to shake Puerto Rico with 5.2 quake]]
|attribution missing - [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Seismic_activity_continues_to_shake_Puerto_Rico_with_5.2_quake&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4541387&amp;diffmode=source reviewer]
|-
| [[Samoan government ends state of emergency over measles outbreak]]
|attribution missing - [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Samoan_government_ends_state_of_emergency_over_measles_outbreak&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4536397&amp;diffmode=source reviewer]
|-
|}

Can you please afford 

* removing analysis and 
* inserting more attribution and
* answering the 5Ws in the first paragraph consistently
in the future? This would not necessarily require in depth research, and it would reduce the work that the reviewers need to do. Thank you.

--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:50, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
::Gryllida, I don't happen to have time to go over this with you.  I am doing something else right now.  Your comments might be valid and they might not, but you've taken to ordering me around and I don't want to do anything that could encourage you to act in a way that I don't want you to act.  I'll just say that on cursory glance, this post of yours seems polite.
::On same cursory glance, I'm guessing you mean &quot;H&quot; for &quot;how,&quot; as in &quot;In the lede, you did not say how the agent performed the act that is the focus of this article.&quot; In my opinion, the &quot;5W&quot; rule is a suggestion.  You see it in writing textbooks given to young highschoolers.  It's a stage to go through while learning how to write well, but it is not the end stage.  It's a &quot;do this most of the time and you'll be close enough&quot; kind of thing.  It's not a &quot;you have to do this all the time&quot; kind of thing.  If you look at professional news articles and many of own Wikinews articles, you'll see that that's more or less what they and we do: most of them most of the time, not all 5W all of the time.
::In other words, the quantitative question &quot;Does the lede say who, what, where, when, and how?&quot; is a tool to help us answer the qualitative and subjective but far more important question &quot;Does the lede introduce the article well?&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:37, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Oh well I guess you've intrigued me.  I'll take a closer look at some of these.  Help me, but I'm a sucker for a nice clear chart.  That thing is really pretty to me.
:::Easter Island article: I didn't hit review because I couldn't find a corroborating source in time.  Everything about that article is moot.
:::Solar panel article: 1) The paragraph order isn't wrong.  It's just not exactly what you personally happen to think is best.  You and I have different interpretations of the paragraph order guideline.  That's all.  If you want a change in paragraph order, go on and make it.  You have every right to think your way is better than mine but it's not okay for you to act like I don't have the right to think my way is better than yours.  We are all colleagues and equals here.  2) I already told you about the affordability thing: The sources do not say, so we both cannot say and don't have to.
:::Samoan: As per the attribution, we don't have to attribute facts that are not controversial. &quot;128 teams participated&quot; is not controversial or in dispute. Pi zero is free to add extra attribution if he wants to, but it's not actually required for publication.  Let me see if I can find the exact Wikinews guideline that covers this.  Ah, it's Pi zero's essay [[WN:ATTRIBUTE]].  The statement &quot;128 teams participated&quot; is not &quot;analysis, or opinion, or disputed.&quot; Rather, it is an objective fact that no one has questioned.
:::&quot;The Chinese government's initial response to the outbreak was to attempt to conceal it&quot; is not analysis.  It's the international consensus, and I got it from the sources provided.  I didn't check every link you labeled &quot;analysis,&quot; but I'm guessing this is what it is in most cases, something from the sources and not original research on my part.
:::I'm out of time, so I'll look at this last link: [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=First_foreigners_die_from_coronavirus_in_Wuhan,_China&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=4545817&amp;diffmode=source]  This happens ''a lot''.  The source says &quot;over two million,&quot; but if I put in &quot;over two million,&quot; it will bother Pi zero because of copyright/copying/plagiarism issues.  So I say it in a different way &quot;millions.&quot; Then Pi zero sees it and thinks &quot;'over two million' is better!&quot; (which it is) and puts that there.  But because Pi zero did it himself, it doesn't bother him or seem as copyright-problematic.
:::So to sum up, a lot of this is just you and I interpreting the rules differently.  If you want an article to match your own vision of what it should be, as always, I welcome your contribution.  But do the work yourself.  Wikinews ''requires'' us to consent to be &quot;edited mercilessly and redistributed by others.&quot; In other words, I do have to let other people rip up my work and remake it into something I don't think is exactly best, but I am not required to rip it up myself. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:51, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
::::* &quot;The sources do not say, so we both cannot say and don't have to.&quot; suppose they don't have to, but don't you ''want to''? Wouldn't it make you and the readers more informed?
::::* Perhaps it is better to attribute anything that is only from a single source, or that was untrivial to obtain? Counting number of teams is not a trivial task. Compared with, say, a murderer pleading guilty. (Opened a query [[Wikinews_talk:Attribution#Examples|here]].)
::::* &quot;Millions&quot; may lead the reader to believe &quot;nine millions&quot;. It is an exaggeration. I do not think Pi zero replaces &quot;over two million&quot; with &quot;millions&quot; just like that. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:47, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
:::I'm sorry, the &quot;official guideline&quot; status of a document is not good enough for you to follow? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:15, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::I don't quite know what you mean when you say &quot;official guideline status of a document.&quot; Are you trying to cite a Wikinews guideline or something else?
::::::Per your three examples here, they all boil down to &quot;I think the article would be better if someone did X.&quot; That's the disconnect.  It's not about whether a given change would make the article better or wouldn't.  It is about whether it is ''necessary'' or ''not necessary''.  You seem to think it's my responsibility to make the draft into (YOUR personal vision of) the best possible version of itself.  It is not.  It is the responsibility of whoever hits review to make sure the draft is good enough to publish as-is.  All of these were.
::::::*No, I don't want to.  I've explained many times that adding that extra information would require hours of extra research running around looking for an additional source that I have guessed is not there to find.  No I will not waste hours of my time just because you feel like it, and the fact that you don't think it's worth ''your'' time makes me wonder why you think it's worth mine.
::::::*It's not about whether it's better.  It's about whether it's necessary.  If someone else wants to add extra attribution, that's fine.
::::::The bottom line is that Wikinews is a volunteer site.  Everyone here has work or school or should be assumed to have other obligations that are important to them.  I am ''donating'' my time.  '''The only person with the authority to decide how much time I will donate is me.'''
::::::This conversation is very similar to many we've had before.  It is time for you to respect my wishes, accept that I will not obey you the way an employee would obey an employer, and move on. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:37, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, WN:5W's status is &quot;official guideline&quot;. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:51, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::It is a question of motivation. Everyone else thinks that (a) making that change would make the article better; (b) they want to be that one person who makes it better because they have time and knowledge to do so. I am wondering now, which of these two steps you are not willing to make? Alas, it seems both. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::::So you were talking about [[WN:5W]].  Then you must note that WN:5W does not say &quot;all ledes must contain 'who,' 'what,' 'where,' 'when,' and 'how.'&quot; It doesn't even say all articles must contain them.  It says they are &quot;flexible reminders of the kinds of information important to include.&quot; It says &quot;how&quot; should be included only if the mechanism is unclear and that &quot;why&quot; is often subject to neutrality issues.  Sounds good to me.  In my experience it's pretty common for people to remember the ''name'' of a guideline and forget what it actually says.  On Wikipedia people cite WP:BATTLEGROUNDING when they mean any kind of being aggressive but if you read what it actually says, it cites various specific kinds of fighting dirty.  People act like WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS means &quot;Don't complain if someone wrongs you on Wikipedia; you must passively accept all punches&quot; but it actually says &quot;Don't use Wikipedia to right wrongs out in the real world.&quot; It sounds like you had a memory shift about WN:5W.  It's perfectly normal to need to reread the guidelines once every few years.
::::::::What I am not willing to do is play along with a let's-pretend game. &quot;Darkfrog24, can you ''pretend'' that Bill or Bob or Gryllida is a professional journalist and that you're their stupid intern who must jump and dance for their amusement?&quot; Nope.  You guys do that if you want but leave me out of it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:42, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} Re: 128 teams, where did the number come from?
# Did you count them?  Then you don't have to attribute it to anyone else.
# Did you ask the organiser?  Then you must attribute them by writing &quot;..., the organisers told Wikinews&quot;.
# Did the organiser say that in a public statement/press release?  Then you must attribute them by writing &quot;..., the organisers said in a press release/public statement&quot;.
# Did the organiser tell another news agency?  Then you must attribute both the parties by saying &quot;..., the organisers told XYZ agency&quot;.
# Did other news agency count it?  Then you must attribute the agency by writing &quot;..., XYZ agency reported&quot;.
# If multiple agencies reported that, you should say how you got that information by writing &quot;..., multiple reports claimed&quot;.  Give credit where credit is due.  Someone is ,making the information available, and they must get their credit.--[[Special:Contributions/103.66.49.33|103.66.49.33]] ([[User talk:103.66.49.33|talk]]) 17:00, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
::Nope.  None of that is necessary.  The word &quot;must&quot; does not apply.  You can add that extra detail if you feel like it (and if the information is available), but it is not required for publication.  Per your fifth point, attributing a fact to the news source, at least a few of the reviewers here don't like that and have told me so.  Per your sixth, if multiple agencies are reporting something, then it's common knowledge.  That's a sign that the information does not need to be attributed in most cases.
::It comes back to this: All initial drafters are volunteers and have only so much time to devote to each draft.  The drafter does a bit of mental triage.  What do ''I'' think is important to include?  I do that.  Then if any of my colleagues want to add or delete text, they get to.  Attribution is not necessary for every single fact; articles would be too cumbersome to read if it were.
::Read [[WN:ATTRIBUTE]] and you will see this for yourself. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 03:04, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
:::The fifth point makes sure that you give the credit to that news agency who bothered counting.  Maybe on-field counting, or looking through the attendance list, or via CCTV camera.  They did the work to get that number, not you.  So they must get the credit.  There is no ethical way to bypass it.  :::What if that news agency got it wrong?  They made a blunder and reported incorrectly?  By not attributing, we are damaging our reputation by reporting false information, as well as not even crediting where the information came from.
:::This is not a rare incident.  Take [[Astronomers discover smallest known star|this]] article for example.  The radius of the star was 80% of Jupiter's.  Multiple sources including CBC reported it.  To quote CBC, &quot;The small star is just slightly larger than Saturn, or 80 per cent the size of Jupiter, with a radius of 49,000 kilometres&quot;.  They made a mistake while reporting the actual radius.  49000 km is 80% of Saturn's radius, which renders the first half of the sentence incorrect.
:::For [[Footballers Neymar, Zlatan, Nolito sign contracts|this]] article, Premier League source claimed Zlatan has won one UEFA Champions League with Inter Milan.  However, that is not true.  So if someone were to write &quot;Player A has won XYZ award&quot;, when in fact he didn't, that is damaging our reputation.  But, if you were to write &quot;Player A has won XYZ award&quot;
:::If multiple agencies are reporting it becomes a common knowledge.  Are you sure?  Multiple news sources stated for [[Commonwealth confirms receiving Zimbabwe's application to rejoin the bloc|this]] article the letter was dated May 15.  But when it was confirmed with Commonwealth's PR, it was May 9.  Not only the well-known MSMs were wrong, it was factually incorrect.  Showing multiple photos of white swans don't prove all swans are white.  It proves &quot;yes, there are many white swans&quot; but does not say anything about the existence of black swans.--[[Special:Contributions/103.66.49.53|103.66.49.53]] ([[User talk:103.66.49.53|talk]]) 05:46, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::The news agency is credited by being listed as a source.  That is what Wikinews requires.  Drafters may go above and beyond requirements if they wish.  In fact, it is better if they do so once in the while and not every time because listing the source in-sentence every time would make the article cumbersome to read.  What is ''not'' appropriate is to demand that someone else go above and beyond requirements.  IP users are not blocked from editing articles.  You go right ahead whenever you want.  Now respect my wishes and leave me alone. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:38, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

::::I am sure the '[[WN:Attribute]]' page will be updated with examples and reasons for them, as a way of consensus. This may take a while, perhaps several months. Wikinews documentation has a backlog, please be patient.
::::
::::There is one thing that can make this backlog shorter: writing drafts which pass the review quicker. When one can not provide steps toward this mission which is stuffed with teachers and inadequate documentation, it is best to let willing students to do this. 
::::
::::I think the &quot;do it yourself&quot;, in the cases when it is a substitute for &quot;I do not wish to learn this concept or read any of your documentation for it&quot;, can be safely replaced with zero words. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 08:57, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::I've asked Pi zero about updating WN:ATTRIBUTE.  He's decided not to.  If you can get him to do it, good on you, but ask just once and then respect his wishes and leave him alone.
:::::I think I've established that I did take an interest in learning the concepts and reading the documentation.  They just don't say what you wish they said.  You are perfectly free to propose changes to any Wikinews guideline or policy that you see fit.  However, if the guidelines are changed to &quot;Drafters must obey all demands that they change the article to fit the personal preferences of all suggestors, whether they have time or not, whether they agree with the change or not, whether the change is required by policy or not,&quot; I don't think many people will want to volunteer here.
:::::The Wikinews review backlog is caused by the dearth of active reviewers.  We simply don't have enough people.  I believe you are a reviewer, aren't you Gryllida?  I see from your user history that you haven't actually done review in a while.  If you want a smaller backlog, the solution is in your hands.  Now leave me alone. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:38, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

&lt;small&gt;The number of teams in Samoa was actually [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Samoan_government_ends_state_of_emergency_over_measles_outbreak&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=4535999 added by me]. The data was published by the WHO, but its origin was the Samoan government (via the Recovery Appeal). I have decided not to attribute it to them, as I have wanted to avoid repeating 'government' over and over again. To help the reviewer, the sources of the sentence were added as hidden text. - [[User:Xbspiro|Xbspiro]] ([[User talk:Xbspiro|talk]]) 22:40, 11 March 2020 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;

::::::&amp;lt;pi zero briefly drops in&amp;gt; Small note: I have not decided not to update [[WN:Attribution]].  I 've not yet gotten to it.  En.wn has been slow to update documentation since long before I got here; from what I've heard, it's a common property of small news organizations, as their time tends to go into news production to the exclusion of time for writing about what they're doing. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 23:56, 11 March 2020 (UTC)


=== Follow-up ===
I am afraid I have a problem with this &quot;leave me alone&quot;. We have an important unresolved question here. 

Are you comfortable writing &quot;I corrected 1,2,3 and I did not correct 4,5,6&quot; instead of &quot;do 4,5,6 yourself. [I hate teachers and I do not think it is required and it is not professional]&quot;? 

This means others '''''have an opportunity to think about asking you for help implementing the change''''' (&quot;I want to do this myself but I find it difficult &lt;navigating the source, understanding the subject, finding contact info, whatever&gt;. Darkfrog24, can you help?&quot;), instead of face-desking and thinking that you absolutely hate these proposed changes 4,5,6. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:37, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
:Gryllida, I am quite finished.  If you wish to continue discussing this, do it on your own talk page or some other part of Wikinews that does not send me an email.  You've said your piece and I've said mine.  Time to move on.  Per your feelings, I've already told you that I usually feel your suggestions, on their own merits, are not that good but not that bad.
:I answered you a long time ago: [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Darkfrog24/Suggestions here]. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:13, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
== Abandoned ==

Hi. Thank you for adding the {{tl|abandoned}} template to files that needed them. I just wanted to highlight that it is better to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:aband}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; because this adds the date automatically. Cheers. -[[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 18:13, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
:Nice.  Thanks. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
== Mortgage payments article ==

.....could probably easily be freshened up with just a bit of source re-work.....? Just a suggestion. --[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 13:58, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
:I'll look at it later if there's time. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:10, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
::I took a quick check and didn't see much in the way of new sources for new developments, not none, but not much.  I'm cool with this draft aging out. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:39, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
== pangolins ==

Just continuing discussion from [[Talk:Researchers_point_to_pangolins_as_coronavirus_jumps_from_bats_to_humans #no_evidence_that SARS-CoV-2_—_the_cause_of COVID-19_—_came_out_of_a_lab|here]]  so it does not disappear from non-admin views before we are done: I found [https://www.quora.com/q/covid19?q=covid another reason (Coronavirus: China needs to stop!)] why  your article is so important. Thought I would share with you. Cheers, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 21:31, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
:For my own future brain, Ottawahitech is talking about the article about the scientists who proved that SARS-CoV-2 probably went through pangolins from bats and that it wasn't related to HIV.  This article is likely to age out and be deleted because the Eurekalert press release doesn't match what the scientific study says and no one in the MSM has corroborated either one.  One of the sources I speculated about using cited a study that proved SARS-CoV-2 wasn't made in a lab.
:For Ottawa, hm, that Kyle guy makes a few interesting points.  I put the content we wanted to use in two articles on the Simple English Wikipedia: [https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome_coronavirus_2&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=6882125#Conspiracy_theories] [https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic&amp;diff=6882142&amp;oldid=6882121#Conspiracy_theories] [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:40, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
== Between 3 and 10% of recovered COVID-19 patients tested positive again ==

Not sure if you have eard about [https://www.fox29.com/news/wuhan-study-between-3-and-10-of-recovered-covid-19-patients-tested-positive-again this] yet? Is it fake news [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 02:02, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:I had vaguely heard.  I already took my Wikinews break from work today, but if you want to run with it I might be able to help some. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:10, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
== Hey, happy quarantine ==

[[Image:Pat_Toomey_and_Clifford_the_Big_Red_Dog.jpg]]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the hard work you've been doing man. I really appreciate it!

:Thank you, whoever you are.  My job is still actually going strong, so I Wikinews when I can fit it in. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:35, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
::Glad to hear everything is going good!

Any idea why the original poster(op) was blocked on wikinews? I see no reason provided in the pink box that shows up when one looks at the op's contributions? Or am I missing something? [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 13:20, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
::The pink sections says it was for &quot;inserting nonsesne/gibberish into pages.&quot;
::OP was an IP address, so I assumed it was Acagastya not logging in again, but it looks like Acagastya's the one who blocked the IP.  It could be newly minted admin Acagastya just wanting to use the admin function now that he or she has it.  That seems likely especially considering the IP's last edit was deleted from the page history instead of just reverted even though Aca describes it as mere &quot;nonsense-gibberish.  It's overkill.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:32, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Boy (man?) you are quick! I did not even consider the possibility that this ip was aca himself, but you are most probably right looking at:
https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/70.224.32.30

And here I thought editors at wikinews were supposed to spend their precious volunteer time working on articles instead of chasing imaginary ips. cheers, 14:13, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

: Darkfrog24, there are three problems with the (frankly) mud you're slinging at acagastya.  Not that admins aren't used having mud slung at them.  One, nothing about the IP or its behavior offers any support for it being acagastya (the internal evidence, which I've just looked over, indicates some bored... person in Indiana lacking the imagination to do anything more constructive than randomly embed images and fart noises on various pages 'round the project; I'd say acagastya has been settling nicely into the &quot;cleanup on aisle three&quot; aspect of adminship, and their block in this case was quite appropriate).  Two, your accusations aren't a plausible fit with acagastya's character.  And three, you're not doing will on our principle of &quot;[[WN:Never assume|don't assume bad faith]]&quot;. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:24, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
::Ease off, Pi zero.  Saying &quot;I thought the IP who posted a NICE message on my page was the person with a history of not logging in&quot; and &quot;deleting rather than reverting a nonsense edit is overkill&quot; is not slinging mud.  It's not assuming bad faith.  It's not an accusation.  If you think it is, then you need to start holding your own posts to a much, much higher standard.  I have looked the other way on a lot of mud from you, not even counting the times you claim I'm blind, stupid or both&amp;mdash;those I call you on, as you know.
::These are tense times, and I think you need to be careful not to start fights.  Since you seem to think I was talking about the block, and not the deletion as &quot;overkill,&quot; maybe you just didn't read my post carefully.  You can reread it if you think that would put your mind at ease, but if it would upset you, then just go do something else. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:45, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
:::The mud was &quot;just wanting to use the admin function now that he or she has it&quot;, not the IP assumption. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:19, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
::::I don't consider that mud either, Gryllida. (&quot;Mud&quot; meaning &quot;an insult&quot; on the order of calling someone a jerk but not as bad as calling them a liar.)
::::People, especially people who are a bit younger, tend to be a bit exuberant about such things.  Believe me, if I think Acagastya's action were ''harmful'', I would have said something to Acagastya about it.  Right now, I just think it's overkill.  People with a brand new tool to use tend to overestimate how often or how much they need to use it.  It wears off when the newness wears off, a self-correcting problem that does not usually require intervention.
::::''Just in case this is the point of confusion,'' I do NOT think Acagastya blocked ''their own'' IP account just for funsies.  I initially though that the poster who put the nice Clifford the Dog picture here was Acagastya.  When I said &quot;I assumed it was Acagastya not logging in again, '''''but''''' it looks like Acagastya's the one who blocked the IP,&quot; I meant &quot;''so the IP is probably not Acagastya''.&quot; No I do not think Acagastya went in as an IP just to test the blocking function.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:53, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::Indeed &quot;just wanting&quot; is an insult, implying the only reason for the block is his want (and there is no other legitimate reason to.) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:16, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::Then it seems you think it is an insult and I don't.  It is also far, far less critical than the flak I've taken on this site, to which you voiced no objection.
::::::I think things IRL are very tense and we should end this conversation now, so I'm putting this thread under WN:SLOWDOWN.  Anyone may make a post in this thread so long as it is at least twenty-four hours ''after'' their last post.  That should keep everyone's heads cool and words polite and considered (I do not consider your post impolitely worded, Gryllida; I just disagree with you).  This does not apply to posts about articles or anything else.  Just put them in their proper thread as normal. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:39, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Without you acknowledging that it is both an accusation and an insult, seeing how the person is presented in the text, we may not proceed. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 22:26, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::::If the things Pi zero likes to say about me are not insults, then this is nothing at all.  If this is an insult at all, then so are the things Pi zero says about me are very serious.
::::::::A high standard can work.  An everyone-toughen-up standard can work.  A &quot;people are allowed to attack you but you may not even mildly criticize others&quot; is not fine.  Perhaps you think &quot;But Acagastya is a reviewer.  That makes him your boss!  Lowly workers must never criticize the boss, but bosses may criticize lowly workers.  Why aren't you kissing up?!?!&quot; That is because that is not how things work here.  [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Policies_and_guidelines Per Wikinews policy and guidelines, we are all equals].  Per [[WN:INTRO]] we do not have a hierarchy, and adminship applies to technical tasks alone.  Here is also [[WN:ETIQUETTE]] for your perusal.
::::::::Your time is better spent drafting and proposing a new, public, written and explicit rule for whom you want to submit to whom and in what way. However, if it reads, &quot;reaching reviewer status or adminship means you are allowed to criticize anyone else you please and they are not allowed to reciprocate,&quot; then very few people will want to volunteer here.
::::::::We've had this conversation before, Gryllida.  Accept that I don't want to play social games and move on.  Moving on may take the form of writing a real guideline.  I even did the legwork for you.  Either put your money where your mouth is or call it a day. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:45, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::Pi zero says things about your work without misrepresenting or attacking your person in the text. This is acceptable. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:59, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Pi zero both misrepresents my work and attacks me as a person.  Whenever I disagree with him, he claims I have some kind of defect that prevents me from seeing underlying principles that he claims are important but refuses to write down or define, strongly indicating that no such principles exist and that they are an excuse to order people around.  ''Maybe'' he doesn't realize he's doing it.  In the comment I made about Acagastya, I say basically &quot;he did it because he had a new tool and felt like it.&quot; An admin action is a public action, and if I feel it's overkill I get to say so.  My opinion matters exactly as much as everyone else's.
::::::::::The only explanation I have for your post here is &quot;Pi zero says this is bad, so I must agree with Pi zero for social reasons.&quot; If you want to play pretend-boss-and-pretend-underling with Pi zero, that is between the two of you, but leave me out of it.  Have fun, but I'm not playing.  I decline the role of pretend-enemy.
::::::::::I think you need to think about what you want from this conversation. If it is for me to think of myself as not worthy to state an opinion of others while passively accepting that whatever Master says about me must be right because it was Master who said it,&quot; then your time is better spent going to the Wikinews policy pages that explicitly state &quot;Wikinews aspires to be non-hierarchical&quot; and &quot;everyone matters as much as everyone else&quot; and proposing that they be changed. 
::::::::::Now leave me alone.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:26, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::I suppose your view is that Pi zero was attacking you, ''and'' you were attacking acagastya. Is this correct? This is a hierarchical wiki; if you remove my message, I'm taking this to ANI. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:38, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::My view is that Pi zero was attacking me, many times, and that I am not attacking Acagastya.
:::::::::::::No, it is a ''NON-HIERARCHICAL'' Wiki.  I linked you to the policy.  This is my talk page and I am allowed to remove messages from it, especially when I am trying to prevent a fight.
::::::::::::There is a global pandemic on and I am not here for you to take your frustration out on me.  I do not have the emotional energy to teach you why trying to force people to think of themselves as less-than is bad.
::::::::::::By saying &quot;if you don't allow me to continue [let's say harassing because I can't think of another word right now] then I will take punitive action,&quot; then you are daring me to delete your comment because if I don't then I'm tacitly consenting to taking orders from you.  It is manipulative and it is wrong.  ''I'm'' trying to prevent a fight by drawing a painful conversation to a close.
:::::::::::::We need formal dispute resolution. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:47, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
== Hi ==

{{archivetop}}Summary added by closer: ''Although started in what can be assumed to be good faith, this thread has devolved into circular talk and name-calling.  Please go to [[WN:DISPUTERESOLUTION]] if you wish to discuss the underlying issue about who is allowed to speak an opinion, which opinions count as consistent with [[WN:ETIQUETTE]], and why.  This thread has accomplished its initial good-faith goal of allowing both parties to explain why they feel the way they do.'' [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC)}}

Hi.  Looks like things are going way out of hand.  So let's try to understand.  Conversations lead to misunderstanding and let's give an opportunity to fix it.  Let's keep it to the point, because there are a lot of points to cover.

Could you tell me, if &lt;s&gt;Green Giant&lt;/s&gt; ANY-OTHER-ADMIN was to block that IP in the same circumstance, and if I were to ask you &quot;Any idea why the original poster(op) was blocked on wikinews? I see no reason provided in the pink box that shows up when one looks at the op's contributions? Or am I missing something?&quot;  What would you reply be.  (Assume I did not have the admin rights to check for myself)

And could you please explain me the meaning of {{q|The pink sections says it was for &quot;inserting nonsesne/gibberish into pages.&quot;
OP was an IP address, so I assumed it was Acagastya not logging in again, but it looks like Acagastya's the one who blocked the IP. It could be newly minted admin Acagastya just wanting to use the admin function now that he or she has it. That seems likely especially considering the IP's last edit was deleted from the page history instead of just reverted even though Aca describes it as mere &quot;nonsense-gibberish. It's overkill.}}. I mean, please break down the sentences and tell me what you meant, so that we are on the same page.

I would be afk for many hours, but I hope you would attempt to clarify the misunderstandings.  See you later.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:52, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

If you notice, I am involved in interviews these days.  So there will be follow up questions like in the interview, to better understand.  I hope you cooperate, so that this is resolved once and fo all.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:55, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:I'm saying this before reading the content of your post.  I am 100% convinced that it is not about you, or else I would have contacted you.  This is not about whether your action was overkill.  This is about whether I, Darkfrog24, am allowed to give an opinion, &quot;That's overkill&quot; here on a website where the opinion &quot;Darkfrog24 is blind/stupid&quot; has been expressed to my face many times.  It's not about whether my opinion is right or wrong.  It's about whether I'm allowed to have one or whether I must be a silent, passive, submissive receptacle for other people's opinions, often very hurtful opinions.  I've had this conversation with Pi zero and Gryllida many times.
:There is a saying, &quot;I don't know what a feminist is but I know people call me one whenever I differentiate myself from a doormat.&quot; This is not about you.  It is about people attacking me when I act like a person and not a doormat.
:But you want to know about the parts that are about you.  Here they are.
:I said &quot;The pink section says it was for 'inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages'&quot; because {{ping|Ottawahitech}} had said, &quot;I don't see any official listing of why the comment was deleted.&quot; My response was basically, &quot;The official listing is right there in the pink section: Nonsense/gibberish.&quot;
:I'm saying you're acting like a person who has a new hammer and goes out to the fence and taps every nail that looks like it even might need to be driven in a little further because they want to use their new hammer.  Six months down the road they'll be used to the hammer and they won't do that any more.  So no I wouldn't have said &quot;GG's just having fun with the new tool&quot; about GG because for GG the tools are not new.  If the comment had only been nonsense or gibberish, then there was no reason to delete it.  The usual thing to do, even with vandalism that has curse words in it, is to revert the edit but not remove it from the page history. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:07, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::Little clarification.  Ottawahitech did not say &quot;I don't see any official listing of why the comment was deleted.&quot;  They asked for the reason of block&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:11, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::Thank you for responding.  Would you be so kind to tell me if &quot;Nonsense/gibberish&quot; was the reason of deleting the comment from the history, or blocking the user, or both?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:12, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::I was paraphrasing.  Ottawa asked for the reason for the block, meaning that Ottawa did not already know, but you ''did'' say what the reason for the block was: nonsense/gibberish.  I figured O missed it and told O where to find it.
:::::Uh...  I thought &quot;nonsense/gibberish&quot; was ''your'' motive.  Aren't you the admin who performed this block?  It looks like you're saying, &quot;I, Acagastya, have blocked this IP for one week.  Their offense was inserting nonsense/gibberish into articles.&quot;
:::::If you meant &quot;It's overkill,&quot; I used that sentence to apply solely to the deletion of the comment from history. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:20, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::....you notice how you mentioned Green Giant but this threat isn't ''about'' Green Giant?  The &quot;happy quarantine&quot; thread is not about you in the way this thread is not about Green Giant. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:21, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} So you do understand the rationale was for block, and not for deleting the edit, right?
:Yes, I said Green Giant.  You can substitute any other admin who was not involved.  It does not matter.  Actually, I am going to strike off their name to be on the safer side because I don't want this to be about them.  I would appreciate if you were to answer this above question.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:26, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::That's the way block descriptions work.  And from that I infer that the deleted comment was nonsense or gibberish.  If it had been something worse, you would have said ''that'' was the reason for the block as in &quot;user blocked for attempted WN:OUTING&quot; or &quot;user blocked for making violent threats.&quot; [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:31, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::The deleted edit might qualify for nonsense/gibberish.  Maybe.  But that was pure coincidence.  It was not the rationale supplied for deleting the comment.  If you didn't know, I was sleeping at that time.  Woke up all of a sudden, saw it on RC and did what had to be done.
:::My follow-up is, do you know what was the content of the deleted edit?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:36, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::I can't know because it was deleted.  That's why deleting a post from the page history is such a big deal.  It could have been completely harmless or completely reprehensible, but there is no way for anyone to know.  [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:38, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} So you don't know what was deleted.  Do you think the community, who gave me the rights to admin bits trust that I can make a wise decision and use the tools appropriately?  (Um, don't answer that.  It is somewhat rhetorical.)  Tell me, when you don't know what was the content that was deleted, which was there for eight minutes, do you think calling it an &quot;overkill&quot; was justified?  I understand it is your opinions, and we can call anything we don't understand as an &quot;overkill&quot;.  But when I wasn't an admin, I didn't call ANY-OTHER-ADMIN's decision of deleting something as an overkill.  I was tempted to know what did they delete, but I never called it an overkill.  Do you think your response was justified?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:48, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:Yes, I think calling it overkill is justified.  That's why I said it.
:Since, as you say, admins' authority over technical matters (for they have no other authority) comes from the community, then the fact that someone in that community thinks a specific admin action was overkill is relevant to the choices you make going forward when performing your duties.
:You're new at this.  Maybe you're feeling insecure.  The global pandemic probably doesn't help.  But the fact that I think your action is overkill and that you're a new admin with some new-admin overeagerness that ''will go away on its own'' with no intervention is not a big deal. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:09, 2 April 2020 (UTC)}}
::Tell me, how can you call something an &quot;overkill&quot; when you don't even know what was in there?  Did you bother asking me, or ANY-OTHER-ADMIN what was there, before calling it as an overkill?  If you have a problem with my actions, feel free to bring it up to the [[WN:AAA]].  If someone in the community feels my action is an overkill, and publicly voices it, they would have to state why it is an overkill.  Else that is considered as making blatant accusations to tarnish one's reputation.  I am pretty sure you would have an explanation of why it was an overkill.  Please do enlighten me.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:13, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::Do not alter other people's talk page posts, Acagastya.
:::I've already explained why I think it was overkill.
:::Not only do I think an overkill deletion is not a big enough deal to take to the AAA, I clearly didn't think it was a big enough deal to go to your talk page and tell you not to do it again&amp;mdash;as here, where I tell you not to alter my posts.  I think a bit of overkill early in an admin's career is normal.  No accusations have been made against you.
:::You ask for enlightenment.  Here it is:  Do not create trouble where there is none already.  It is normal for Wikinewsies to talk about admin actions.  It is normal for Wikinewsies to like some of them and not others.  None of what you've seen here means that anything is wrong for you.  You can breathe. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:31, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::I would appreciate if you would stick to the relevant points.  If you are going to call someone's action overkill, you have a duty to explain why you are tarnishing their image.  If you do not know what was in the deleted edit, refrain from calling it an overkill unless you know what what the content of the deleted edit.  That deleted edit contained an unconsolidated content I am pretty sure many users would not appreciate.  It was totally within the bounds of an admin to delete that edit.  Feel free to confirm that by asking ANY-OTHER-ADMIN if it was an overkill, or if it was not.  Blatant accusation without any concrete evidence is not considered a good gesture.  Are you willing to clarify with ANY-OTHER-ADMIN about this?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:39, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::No one is tarnishing your image.  No one has made any accusations against you.  I must insist that you stop mischaracterizing my actions.  Be assured that if I thought you had done something seriously wrong I would go through established channels: 1) talking to you directly and 2) if it came to that, showing up with proof.  But &quot;overkill&quot; is an opinion and no one needs proof to have an opinion.
:::::You asked why I think your action is overkill, and now I've told you.
:::::I think your feelings are relevant.  Sometimes people have trouble dealing with it when someone has a negative thought about one of their actions.  Have you seen the show ''Brooklyn Nine Nine'' in which {{w|The_Venue_(Brooklyn_Nine-Nine)|Terry finds out that another officer thinks he's silly}} and he tries to throw her a party so that she'll like him?  At the end, he takes all his decorations and food and throws a party for someone else who'd just had a success because he's learned that not having universal adoration is not a big deal.  And on that pleasant image of Terry and his friends surrounded by banners and ice cream, let's call this over. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:48, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} My understanding is Ottawahitech had asked a genuine question, and the response to a genuine question should be a genuine answer.  If you do not know the answer, you must say so.  It is not the place to opine.  If you want to opine, you must clearly state it is an opinion when you don't have an answer to a genuine question.  I assume you have a good reason to hold the opinion that it was an overkill.  Without knowing what was in the edit, how can you not be concerned &quot;the opinion I hold is wrong?&quot;  Regardless of the opinion, don't you want to know if it was truly an overkill?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:53, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:I've answered Ottawa's genuine question and I've answered your genuine question.  We've begun to talk in circles, so it's time to bring this to an end.  You've expressed far harsher things to me than &quot;it's overkill&quot; over the years.
:Of course it does not bother me that you think my opinion is wrong.  You have exactly as much right to an opinion as I do.  Just not more.
:I don't want to know what was in that comment more than I want this conversation to end.  If the fact that I said something negative about a public admin action that you performed while in casual conversation still bothers you in a month, you can show me then.  But I think you will find it no longer bothers you.  You might not even remember unless something reminds you. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 09:07, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::&quot;Let's acknowledge the difference between speaking up with intention and speaking up for attention.&quot;
::Thanks for stating that you are unwilling to learn the truth and still hold an opinion.  Most, if not all of your answers were opinions, when genuine honest answer was expected.  But thanks, anyways.  If you have something from the past let me know.
::It is funny that there are 67 revisions were [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=delete&amp;user=&amp;page=&amp;wpdate=&amp;tagfilter=&amp;subtype=revision deleted] since I got the admin bits; but now was the first time you chose to say this.  I am not saying you can't have your opinions.  But when you are stating your opinion publicly, you better give a fair rationale or you back down.  But well, what is the point?  You have acknowledged you don't care for the truth.  You just want to state things, and you have.  Again, thank you for clarifying to the community that you wish to hide in the veil of ignorance, and denounce other's actions.
::When community had trusted me with the rights, and when someone from the community later thinks otherwise, that accuser is the one standing against the community.  Might as well prove why they are right.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:17, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::Yes, Acaggastya, I am allowed to have opinions.  I already gave you my rationale.
::::This deletion by you is the first deleted edit that I have ever seen on Wikinews. 
::::Now you seem to be calling me ignorant.  You are harassing me.  Leave me alone.  If you are worried about your reputation as an admin, then you should be more concerned about &quot;Someone said one negative thing Acagastya and he went to their talk page and bit their head off.&quot;
::::This whole mess feels like a SLAPP lawsuit. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:29, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} I am well aware of what I should be concerned with: that is everything that happens on the site.  You have clearly stated you didn't know what was in the edit before you publicly stated your opinion I was misusing my privs.  Saying things without knowing is an act committed in ignorance.  And someone who does that is called an ignorant.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:36, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:You should apologize. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:42, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::For stating the fact?&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:43, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::For making personal attacks and calling me names.  For treating me the way you say you don't want to be treated. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:45, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} Pointing out how you are ignoring facts to form an opinion, is not a personal attack or calling names.  You committed an act of ignorance is a fact.  And hence, you are ignorant in that aspect.  Prove me wrong.  Prove me you are not ignorant in this matter by actually trying to seek what was in the revision and then revising your opinion.  And then I will take back my comment.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:52, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:I don't have to prove to you that I am not ignorant, just like you don't have to prove to me why you don't think your action is overkill.  You just need to accept that I have a right to think of it that way and say so because it isn't personal, and you don't have the right to call me names, because it is personal.
:We are talking in circles, Acagastya.  I filed a request for mediation per [[WN:DISPUTERESOLUTION]] but as I said this isn't really about you.
:I think you should go buy yourself a punching bag or take some martial arts classes.  Hit someone who has consented to be hit.  It would make you feel better.  But then apologize. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:56, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::There is a global pandemic on and everyone is tense.  To turn this in a lighter direction, I recommend you watch [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN8bJb8biZU this video] about SLAPP. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:58, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} I don't know if you read it properly DarkFrog24, the comment you are referring to is &quot;you wish to hide in the veil of ignorance&quot;.  You assumed that I was calling you ignorant, while I highlighted you were unwilling to seek the truth.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 15:12, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:I didn't assume anything.  Acagastya, I am a great believer in objective truth (&quot;Perception is reality&quot;? BAH!) but you are acting as if whatever you think or want must be the truth, and that is not the case.  We are both people with eyes and ears.
:Take the standard you are applying to your own comment &quot;veil of ignorance&quot; and apply it to my &quot;it's overkill.&quot; If yours isn't a personal attack then mine isn't either. If what you truly believe is &quot;I, Acagastya, am allowed to attack Darkfrog24, but Darkfrog24 is not allowed to attack me,&quot; then perhaps non-hierarchical projects are not for you and you would thrive in a more military-style environment. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:16, 2 April 2020 (UTC)}}}}
}}{{archivebottom}}

== Harassment ==

This is an administrative warning.  You've been harassing other active contributors on en.wn, creating a highly toxic social atmosphere on the project.  Some major recent examples:
* You accused an admin of serious abuse of their privileges, without having seen the evidence on which they based their administrative action.  You thereby committed a straightforward violation of [[Wikinews:Never assume]].  When another, veteran admin examined the evidence you didn't have access to, and found the administrative action was commensurate with the evidence, you simply disregarded this.
* When other users have raised concerns on your user talk page &amp;mdash; which is a major function of user talk pages &amp;mdash; if you didn't want to hear what they had to say, you would selectively remove the comments you didn't like.  Not only is that short-sighted, since it discourages others from seeking to discuss things with you rather than escalating them to a higher level, it also tampers with the potentially-administratively-relevant record of the concerns raised.
You also recently responded to a not-ready review with a flamboyant (to the point of interfering with the serious function of the article talk page) response insinuating that it was extraordinary for the reviewer to base their review on project guidelines.  That's the same reviewer you already owed an apology for falsely accusing them of administrative misconduct. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 14:12, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:The person being harassed here ''IS ME''.  Gryllida was badgering me after repeatedly being told to stop.
:No I did not accuse anyone of anything.  I made a normal comment in casual conversation.  Other Wikinewsies including you personally have said far harsher things about me, including you specifically.
:The comments I removed came from editors who were badgering me after ''repeated'' instructions to leave me alone.  I had heard them out and we were talking in circles.  Wikinews guidelines allow me to curate my own talk page.
:The images of fireworks are consistent with [[WN:ETIQUETTE]]: Give praise where it is due.
:The person owed an apology ''is me''.
:If you believe that Wikinewsies are required to quietly endure badgering from others, go propose a guideline saying so 
:Per Wikinews policy, we are all equals here.  The authority given admins applies solely to technical matters.  It does not mean &quot;Once you become an admin, you are allowed to criticize others but no one may give an opinion of you.&quot;
:If you believe drafters should be some kind of emotional servant to admins and reviewers, then go draft a guidelines saying so.
:My participation here is not consent to abuse from you or anyone. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:21, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::I will now try another step in dispute resolution: Ask the community to get involved. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:21, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::: You're wikilawyering; you insinuated; you have not been attacked, you've just gotten a lot of negative feedback because you've been causing a lot of problems for others.  The community is already involved.  And I repeat:  you're creating a toxic atmosphere on the project by harassing others.  I'm letting you know, in my responsibility as a an admin, so that you have the opportunity to self-improve. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 15:00, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::Scroll up.  Acagastya just called me names like &quot;ignorant.&quot; Go tell A to apologize to me and to stop creating a toxic environment.  If your standard for courtesy is so strict that &quot;this admin action is overkill&quot; counts as an accusation and attack, as you say above, then you should make a post like this one on Acagastya's talk page.
::::But if you truly believe &quot;other people may make personal attacks against Darkfrog24, who is not allowed to voice any opinion, whether negative or positive,&quot; then your time is better spent defining it in an essay and proposing it as a guideline, because it is a ''radical'' departure from the principles of this project.
::::Another possibility: There is a ''global pandemic'' on.  We probably all know people who are sick or in dagner because they work in health care.  I am not okay with people working out their anxiety by attacking me. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:07, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::Ignorant is a characteristic of what a person is doing, not a personal attack. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 15:17, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::No, ignorance is personal.  Overkill is a characteristic of an action and not a personal attack.  When you badger me for saying something to someone else, but defend other people when they say bad things about me, I feel that you are trying to turn me into some ind of punching bag.  I'm not anyone's dog, little brother, or mommy to scream at, and you have to stop treating me like one.  Either we all talk loud and toughen up or we all lower our voices and act delicately. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:22, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

== AAA ==

Added a query to AAA. Please understand that being limited to talk pages is not a bin; this is the correct place to reach consensus and it is still powerful. Thanks --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 18:11, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:Sorry, I don't know what a bin is.  Did you put this in the right place?
:It occurs to me that, as an involved party, Pi zero should not act as an admin in this matter. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:18, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::I meant the rubbish bin.
::
::He will be able to share his view on this; if everyone agrees that my proposed limitations are a good idea, then they can be actioned by any admin. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 18:27, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::I saw your proposal and I find it premature.  I provided a link to the water cooler discussion where I request dispute resolution.
:::There is a global pandemic on and tempers are high.  The thing to do is follow the established process, which needs time to work.
:::Bottom line, locating the rule I read years ago that says Wikinewsies are allowed to curate their own talk pages would resolve this.
:::It would help a great deal if you apologized for continuing to post here when I told you I was not okay with continuing. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:32, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::[[Wikinews:Admin_action_alerts#User:Darkfrog24|backlink]]. I confirm that I'm sorry for the disruption of your personal space, and you can remove this entire section if you desire; I only felt it necessary to post it here because otherwise you might have been unaware that a discussion was opened at AAA. That would have been awfully bad. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 18:53, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::You are required to notify me when you post a complaint of that kind, so you did right, excepting that you should not have made the complaint at all.  I meant to apologize to me for continuing to badger (or choose another word) in the &quot;happy quarantine&quot; thread. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:59, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::You can remove that entire section, if you desire. (In my defense, I aimed to output as few judgments as it was practically possible. I hope this is helping you with your well-being.)
::::::
::::::I only felt it was necessary to participate in that discussion because another person seemed attacked, and there was a seeming misunderstanding (by you) of what specifically made it seem that way. I wouldn't retract my first remark there. Seeing that attempts to explain it were in vain, in that section and in the next one, I've given up.
::::::
::::::However, I'm sorry for making that conversation too long.
::::::
::::::I hope that, when someone approaches you with &quot;did you attack Alice here?&quot;, you will be able to say something different from &quot;Rob attacked me there!&quot;. This was one of the points that made that discussion excessively long; we didn't seem to really become able to get to the point of specifically what and how read out as an attack.
::::::
::::::If I approach such a situation again, it will be in a different way; I will try to maximize the chances that I will not need to explain such things more than once, thus lengthening the conversation.
::::::
::::::Thanks and best regards, [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:13, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} informing the concerned editors about AAA is a rule of thumb: so that something does not happen behind their back.  It is generally done by the one who creates the AAA request.  Expecting one to not do that is considered going against the proper functioning of the project.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:01, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:There is currently no dispute about that, Acagastya. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:05, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

== Hi again ==

Hi DF, 

Thanks so much for your message yesterday (which I can longer locate?) Anyway I was way too tired yesterday to respond and like to  apologize to you for not doing it and  just to come back today to find out everything here is in chaos, or at least thats  what it seems to me?

Anyway, I have discovered during my recent wiki-travels that this upset is not unique, not to you,  not  to wikinews, and not to the general wmf movement, but to the whole world. I don't know if this is consolation for your predicament, but I hope it is.

I am trying very hard at the moment to concentrate on covid-related issues, both on wiki and in real life. Yes it is hard to ignore the background noise and the backseat drivers, but I feel it is a matter of survival both virtually and not. 

I hope when this is over we will have time to address all the issues we are confronting right now [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 20:44, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:Since a formal accusation has been made against me, I do not have the luxury of tabling this until later.
:I would like it if you gave your two cents at the water cooler.  Nothing on Wikinews or basic courtesy demands that you do so, but you are certainly allowed to.  I included you on the list of involved parties but didn't say what position you held.
:As I said, a &quot;no one's allowed to say negative things&quot; rule might be restrictive but could work and an &quot;everyone may voice their opinion and everyone toughen up&quot; rule would work, but &quot;other people are allowed to shout but you may not even whisper&quot; is very, very hurtful to me.  It's like that old saying &quot;Don't fight fire with fire&quot; might be okay, but not if you follow it with &quot;don't fight it with water, don't fight it with foam, don't evacuate the building, stand there and burn.&quot;
:If you want to talk about the thing I posted on your talk page about privately, my &quot;email this user&quot; is enabled. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:49, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

== Trump's malaria drug ==

Just thought I'd share with you: I was watching cnn earlier,  where the reporter (a woman) interviewed Dr Wilbour Chen in regards to the drug trials they have speeded up. They mentioned one of the issues was people currently taking the drug were afraid they would face shortages if the drug is approved for covid treatment. There was mention of an interview with a woman  suffering from Lupus who was taking this drug, but unfortunately I could not listen to it. 

Please take care of yourself, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 20:44, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:Yes, I heard of that last week.  It's so sad.
:I've been trying to focus on things that I'm worried might get overlooked because of the pandemic, like what's happening with indigenous peoples and with strikes.  I managed to revamp the article about the Mashpee Wampanoag, but I'm still awaiting corroboration of the new focal event. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:50, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
== Short block ==

I've applied a short block to your account.  Per generally observed standards for blocking actions, this is preventative, not punitive; you've been spreading misinformation.  You've had reasonable warning that this was a concern.  If you're willing to agree to limit yourself as Gryllida has outlined at AAA, I'm inclined to simply let the block expire, and we'll see how things go. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
: Clarification: I have in mind option (c) that Gryllida described, &quot;limit partitipation only to new articles and talk pages of these articles and personal talk page but nothing else&quot;. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 01:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::Pi zero, you are an involved party, so you should not apply a block to my account.  I also performed no disruptive action, so you should expunge the record. If you think requesting dispute resolution or participating in a thread after someone's posted an accusation, then you should post a link to the diff and own up that you think so.
::A block from anyone is premature because my request for dispute resolution is under way.  I must be able to participate in that dispute resolution process, and this block prevents me from doing that.  It also prevents me from participating in discussion of the policy changes that you have proposed, which makes it look like you have an ulterior motive.  You have created the appearance of impropriety.
::Correct the situation and remove the block. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::If you actually want to prevent disruption, the answer is for you, Gryllida and Acagastya to stay off my talk page and accept that no person here has the right to abuse me or expect me to tolerate abuse. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

{{tl|unblock|Blocked in violation of policy.

Per [[WN:BLOCK]] &quot;Likewise, users should not block those with whom they are currently engaged in conflict.&quot; Pi zero is an involved party in this dispute and should not be blocking any other involved party.  I also disputed some changes that the blocking admin made to a policy, the discussion of which is ongoing.  Either of these things alone is enough to render this admin ineligible to perform the block.

Pi zero, I could buy this was an oversight on your part, but correct it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)}}

{{unblock-no|William S. Saturn|The block is justified.  If the disruption continues once the block expires, the user should be blocked for a longer period.  If this occurs, as I suggest at [[WN:AAA]], perhaps the user should remain blocked for the duration of the coronavirus pandemic}} 
: Comment from blocking admin: The fact that Darkfrog24 doesn't like to hear what I have to say does not disqualify me from administrative action in the case. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 02:31, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::Pi zero, you are involved in two disputes with me right now.  You create a toxic environment when you violate policy.
::I've heard what you've had to say many times.  You need to accept that I do not share your opinion and move on. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:37, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Pi zero is not in a conflict with you; he has in the last week limited communication with you only to the benefit of other contributors. Also you kept misleading others, and don't seem to commit to any change (such as the proposed limitations), I don't think an unblock is wanted here. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:01, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:Conflict #1: Pi zero has not been a disinterested observer here on my talk page.  One of the posts I deleted was his. Conflict #2:  The other conflict is about his proposed changes to WN:INTRO.
:This feels like a strategic action to prevent someone with a habit of disagreeing with you from participating in discussions of proposed changes to policy.  You should avoid even the appearance of that kind of impropriety.
:Gryllida, if you think &quot;Darkfrog24 is not allowed to voice an opinion&quot; ''and'' &quot;Darkfrog24 must sit still while people call D 'ignorant' and other insults,&quot; then the person in need of some limitation is you. 03:35, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::Correcting [[WN:INTRO]] seems like a less urgent issue than resolving your dislike of authority here, which has interfered with reviewing and publishing your work, has mislead other authors, and has resulted in wiki-lawyering that has delayed review of complex original reporting. If you want to propose changes like that, you've got at least improve your timing. If it were only for the [[WN:INTRO]] correction and everything else was fine, I'd've unblocked three hours ago (and Pi zero wouldn't've blocked in the first place). 
::I'm not going to speak about the insults here; I am sure nobody would be fascinated by the idea of insulting you on a page which you are blocked from editing, and you will have plenty of room to converse about that, wherever it occurs.
::--[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:56, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::The long-term problem here is that you think have a reveiwership or adminship grants people social privileges that it does not grant.  But a global pandemic is NOT THE TIME.  You are scared of the virus and trying to find something you can control and treating other people as a receptacle for your feelings in that way is not okay.
:::You have said your piece, now stop spamming this page. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:09, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
{{od}} You have said your part of global pandemic more than enough, Darkfrog24.  Stop pretending you know someone else's mind.  You have done that enough, and if you continue to break [[WN:never assume|never assume]], this will not help your case.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:12, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:Darkfrog24, this is a warning: if you engage in causing hindrance to the administrative discussion, you would lose access to edit your talk page.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:The person hindering administrative action is YOU.  Stop harassing me. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 06:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::Wow this is really frustrating for both of you. Quite obviously Acagastya meant your hiding of content, which Pi zero reverted. If you didn't understand this yourself, perhaps you need a friend ([[:wikt:IRL|IRL]]) to assist you with communication on the wiki.
::
::How about you move this page to &quot;[[User talk:Darkfrog24/Messages]]&quot;? Then it won't show notifications that much, and won't bother you as much by email. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 08:36, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::Gryllida, moving all this somewhere else actually a good idea.  I may come back and do that later. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 13:39, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
== Longer block ==

You've made clear your intent not to curb the behavior that led to your last block, and indeed you even blew through my suggestion to address the matter on another page.  So I'm adopting the suggestion at AAA to apply a substantially longer block, which was recommended as a preventative measure with size chosen to let pandemic tensions ease.  I am, however, concerned that underlying issues will remain after six months if I don't clarify here.  We're all (I hope) interested to see you settle into a constructive role on en.wn.  Here are several difficulties I see in your approach to the project, which tend to interlock with each other.
:: ''Note, going into this:  In recent times I've usually not been as blunt about these things as I'm about to be.  Your negative reactions to criticism have had the unfortunate side-effect of discouraging honesty, and lately I've sought to say as little as possible.  However, my purpose here is to try to help you with the underlying problems that have led to the block, which it seems to me I cannot do by saying as little as possible, nor by shying aware from bluntness.  I am not, thereby, &quot;in dispute&quot; with you; quite the contrary.''
* You have tended, historically, to treat attempts to explain anything to you as either an exchange of opinions between equals, or as personal attacks.  Since people passing knowledge one-to-another is the primary way knowledge is disseminated on en.wn, and doesn't fit either model, limiting things to those two models seriously curtails your ability to increase your knowledge of the project.
* You have clearly indicated you believe you have nothing to learn about the project (well, okay, I pulled that punch:  honestly, you've indicated you are more of an expert on how the project works than the entire rest of the veteran Wikinews community put together).  This is a problem because it's not true.  Your development as a Wikinewsie has been substantially arrested at a rather early stage in our learning curve, creating more work for the rest of us as we have to compensate.  Compensating this way is something we're happy to do for newcomers as they're learning the ropes, with the hope that as they learn more the burden on us will drop to a more reasonable level.  It's a problem when the level of burden ''doesn't'' drop, since the drop allows us to greatly increase our output volume over time.  Some of our long-time contributors we've happily helped along even though they never fully master some aspects of Wikinews writing &amp;mdash; happily, ''because'' they gamely struggle to improve.  You've projected an impression that you're not trying to improve.  If that impression is wrong, perhaps we can do something to make it look less that way; if the impression is right, that's inherently a problem that's going to need some sort of redress to allow you to function effectively on the project.
:* You said something on that article talk page with the newbie, about being qualified to teach newbies because you've been here for four years and written a whole bunch of articles.  The trouble with that reasoning is, those statistics ''aren't'' in themselves a reliable measure of knowledge about how the project works.  You haven't been improving much during most of that time, and correspondingly the effort by others to move your articles through the process has not dropped.  The number of articles you've gotten published doesn't reflect how much compensatory extra work others put into those, nor how many other articles didn't succeed for directly or indirectly related reasons (which is very hard to assess); or to take the optimistic view, how many more articles could have been produced if that effort-drop had occurred.
:* In that incident you also underestimated the problem with your remarks to the newcomer.  You made a whole series of incorrect statements, not limited to the point acagastya raised about neutrality (though that's part of it).  You misrepresented what kinds of articles Wikinews publishes (no, OR does not contrast with &quot;discrete events&quot;); talked about &quot;guessing&quot; why that type of article isn't allowed when there's no mystery about it (policy and guideline violations), and incorrectly suggested the problem with the article type was some sort of inferiority of Wikinews because we're a volunteer project (rather than because of our neutrality policy); threw in a gripe about how somebody with &quot;a journalism degree or years of working at a newspaper [... could]n't use it as a credential&quot; (whereas such credentials even if verified wouldn't mean anything here: while some professional journalists have fit in quite well here, others have failed here disastrously because they ignored the goals/policies of the project).
* You've repeatedly put forward professional journalism as a superior standard that trumps the Wikinews style guide.  Besides the simple unworkability of any project submordinating its own style guide to the whims of contributors, it's been pointed out to you, and honestly should be rather self-evident once noticed, that we're not trying to do the same thing professional journalism sites are trying to do, so the very idea of using professional journalism as an exemplar of what we're trying to do is a non sequitur.  Wikinewsies over the years have been quite familiar with various flaws of mainstream journalism and our infrastructure seeks to do better on various of those things, which is very far from viewing msm as an exemplar.
* On multiple occasions over the years, you've indicated that the only two interpersonal relations you conceive for a project like this are technical equals, or master-servant (a.k.a. employer-employee).  Unfortunately, neither of those sorts of relationships is applicable to Wikinews.  You've repeatedly claimed that everyone on a wiki is equal, which is not true of any wiki.  Wikipedia makes some pretense (unsuccessfully, as some of its critics have been known to point out) of embracing some such radically egalitarian philosophy; the Wikinews infrastructure embraces individuality and deliberately nurtures awareness of the individual characteristics of each user (cf. [[WN:ROLE]]).  Even Wikinews !voting on local policy (such as RFPs) explicitly factors in accumulated reputation; e.g., at the low end, outsiders are welcomed to express opinions but their opinions carry no weight.
--[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 07:50, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

In other words, learning did not work, and the only venue which you supported was writing documentation. When you tried writing documentation, it seemed inconsistent and contrary to the existing interpretations or practice. When others tried to write, you would offer new interpretations, and nobody went out of their way to prioritise documentation writing over news writing. That was sad; instead of limiting your contributions to what you can do well (correcting wiki markup) to reduce reviewing burden, you kept doing what the situation did not permit you to learn (write content with inverted pyramid; without copyvio; aim to answer 5Ws; attribution; research the story; the reputation thing), and as you kept doing it poorly, it got out of hand. Sob. Sad face. I am sorry I could not help, and was only told to go away. I wish there was a working solution. Now I can only suggest to learn another language, perhaps that is a good way to position yourself among people who know something better than you so that you can practice relationships and learning there, possibly without the pain or slavery. Yes, learning a new language contains zero slavery. Please consider it. While language grammar rules are written, vocabulary is not, and neither is the culture. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:59, 4 April 2020 (UTC)


Pi zero, per [[WN:BLOCK]] you should not be issuing blocks against people with whom you are in a dispute yourself.  I did not see any suggestion from you on another page.  I gave myself a 24-hour time out from the water cooler discussion so that I wouldn't be tempted to reply after every single post.  What was the suggestion?

In writing my response to your comments here, I believe I've put my finger on exactly what has been causing all these problems:

'''I don't trust rules that aren't written down.'''

I believe we are all equals here because Wikinews policy, a rule that's written down, says so. [https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Policies_and_guidelines Per Wikinews policy and guidelines, we are all equals].  Per [[WN:INTRO]], we do not have a hierarchy.  This idea is not coming from me. So it's not only that the principles you seem to believe in aren't written down, it's also that they actively contradict things that are written down. &quot;Don't believe what you see; believe what I ''tell'' you&quot; is an inherently suspect statement.

Written policy is written for a reason.  If policy exists only in one person's head, then only that one person may consult it.  That person might change it to suit their mood, either deliberately or without realizing it, but it puts everyone else at so very profound a disadvantage that even a partially egalitarian Wiki has great trouble functioning.  When the rules are invisible, who can tell the difference between &quot;You broke a rule?&quot; and &quot;You did something I personally did not like?&quot;

*I disagree with this characterization of me.
*You claim I act like I have nothing to learn, but in fact I've often asked you, &quot;Is there policy on this?  Is there a previous consensus conversation on that?&quot; and other versions of &quot;Is there some written reference that I could consult?&quot; &quot;Oh there isn't?  Want to write one together?&quot; But when you don't get an answer enough times over and over, the only thing for it is to stop asking.
*&quot;I do not see why someone who has been here four years and drafted over a hundred published articles (I mean myself) should not tell a newcomer how they might one day come to do the same if they choose to continue volunteering their time.&quot; I stand by that.  Frankly, when you tell me that I shouldn't talk to a newcomer about a very basic idea, it feels ...it's hard to explain exactly what kind of hurtful.  It feels like you think there's something wrong with me because I think of myself as having worth.  This has happened many times here.  It's fine for you to think you're right and I'm wrong, but you've often said things that left me thinking that you felt you were so right that my disagreeing with you is proof of some defect.  You often attributed my disagreeing with you to being blind or stupid.  That is why I feel personally attacked.
:*If memory serves, you once praised my instruction of a newbie.[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User_talk:Darkfrog24/Archive_1#What_to_expect_re._%22FOIA_attack_on_'Restoring_Internet_freedom'%22?]
*I have no problem with the idea that people who have been to journalism school and worked at newspapers would be more qualified to write articles containing analysis than we would be.  We're amateurs or at least acting in amateur capacity.  Like you say, we don't do the exact same thing here.
*I don't think this is about the style guide. I believe you're talking about the issue with past tense last year.  My decision to use present tense where appropriate was based not only on general practice in the wider world but also on common practice here on Wikinews going back years.  Every reviewer I saw, including yourself as recently as the previous week, used and approved articles using present tense the way I used it.  The reviewer in question speaks English very well but is not a native speaker and made a very understandable mistake, which I corrected.  To all outward appearances, you immediately changed your mind to agree with the reviewer.  This made it look to me that you cared more about a drafter correcting a reviewer than about producing a good article.  It made it look like you felt the reviewer was owed the pretense that he or she was right, even if it was provably not so by either Wikinews practice or published-source criteria.
*I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, Pi zero, but&amp;mdash;again, a look at the departures lounge&amp;mdash;that your principal problem with me is that I disagree with you about things you care about, like the way the social structure here does and should work.  For example, let's say you genuinely and sincerely believe that I shouldn't be allowed to say &quot;it's overkill&quot; of an admin action while in casual conversation.  In contrast, you actively defended that admin when he came here and called me some pretty awful names.  That's not only treating me like I am not this person's equal, but treating me as something so lowly that you think it's my job to let him abuse me.  That's not some non-toxic not-equals-but-not-master/slave relationship.  That's &quot;you're not allowed to criticize him but he gets to do whatever he wants to ''you'' and you must in fact hold still and let him.&quot; I feel like I came here to write the news, but there's this play going on and people want me to pretend that I'm less knowledgeable, less kind, less of a person than I really am.
*I've looked and looked and found no written policy or guideline saying that reviewers or admins gain any special social privileges on Wikinews, like being allowed to call people names or tell other people not to answer newcomers' questions.
*I see Gryllida has posted.  I will respond: &quot;Learning&quot; only works when there is something concrete to learn from. &quot;I am right and you are wrong becuase I say so&quot; offers no opportunity for learning.  On an anonymous project like this one, we cannot use our real-world credentials without outing ourselves.  That is why citing policy&amp;mdash;creating it if need be&amp;mdash;and outside sources is so fundamental.  Otherwise &quot;I want you to learn&quot; is indistinguishable from &quot;I want you to be more submissive to me personally.  I want to give you orders because that's fun for me.&quot;

Putting all of these things together, you say you want me to &quot;improve&quot; but when the rules are in other people's heads where I can't see them, &quot;improve&quot; is functionally indistinguishable from &quot;become more obedient and submissive to me personally,&quot; and I'm sure you can see why I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

The answer, then, is to take those rules and put them somewhere public, like a written policy or guideline.  Even if I find those rules are things I don't like, and I and others decide to stop contributing here, it would take this shadow of suspicion&amp;mdash;that Wikinews' expectations and your own are the same thing&amp;mdash;and dispel it.  We can take &quot;believe what I tell you&quot; and transform it into &quot;believe what you see.&quot;

I would like this block lifted, but right this moment I formally request that the word &quot;misinformation&quot; be removed and replaced with something that has to do with the discussion that took place at AAA and not Pi zero's beliefs about my statement to Charis.  The word misinformation makes it look like I was lying or something, and the discussion at AAA focused more on things like tensions from the COVID-19 epidemic. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:14, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

{{hidden|Since the article by Charis is likely to be deleted and the talk page discussion erased, and since it is so important to all this, I did a quick copypaste of the whole thing and put it here. -Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24|

What means &quot;analysis of an ongoing situation&quot; is not allowed?

Regards: &quot;This is analysis of an ongoing situation. Analysis is not allowed under our neutrality policy; and our newsworthiness criterion calls for a focal event that is sufficiently specific to pin down to a specific very recent day.&quot;

Pi zero, if you see feaver as an ongoing sitation, so it's in en.WN only allowed to report about begin and end of feaver and it's a not allowed because an analyse to report that feaver went down to a certain value by a view onto the list of the daily temperature measurements? This would effect that I cannot tell that a team did win every match in last 3 weeks because the season is ongoing... 

&quot;Each article must report only objective facts, without endorsing or promoting opinion&quot; I cannot see where I fail (except my suggestive question at the beginning, I removed ;-)

The focus (a news event or phenomenon that is specific, relevant, and fresh):
1. that the first country in the world is able to recover from an corona eruption really stabile over a certain time.
The significance of the success and it's relation to a unique combination of methods in the world of democratic countries - and I miss complete in the information spread in newspapers as far as their articles can be searched by google. 
2. The second event is based on this as well fresh, that now the other countries like Germany start to discuss similar methods and plan to introduce them.

If links in the body are not allowed, where best to put them? Charis 21:53, 2 April 2020 (UTC)


:Charis I just performed a heavy [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Three_weeks_stable_-_South_Korea_has_the_corona_eruption_under_control&amp;diff=4556152&amp;oldid=4556087 copyedit] of the article.  You've read the sources and I haven't, so could you quickly look at it and make sure I didn't accidentally change the factual meaning of any sentence?  If it would take you a long time, let me know and I'll either self-revert or do it myself.  I think I took out a lot of the non-neutral stuff as well.
:To answer your question, Wikinews only publishes two kinds of articles 1) Original reporting (if you went out and did an interview yourself) and 2) Discrete events.  Yes, lots of professional newspapers do article like this one that you've written, but you can see from reading old Wikinews articles that we almost never do, going back at least ten years.  I'm guessing because all those newspapers use professional journalists and we're amateurs or at least acting in amateur capacity.  Also, we're anonymous.  Even if someone on Wikinews has a journalism degree or years of experience working at a newspaper, they can't use it as a credential because there's no way to prove it without self-outing.
:To give you an example, this overall article that describes a long-term trend (South Korea's handling of the Coronavirus from January through today), is not a discrete event ''BUT'' you can say, &quot;Yesterday, South Korea's Official of This and That announced [specific number] about coronavirus in the country,&quot; and then you could use a lot of this article for background and context.
:For another example, over on the article about the Mashpee Wampanoag, I initially wrote it about one discrete event, &quot;The Department of Interior tells the Mashpee it's dissolving their reservation,&quot; but no reviewer was able to pass it in time.  It got too old to be news.  So today I reworked it.  The discrete event is now &quot;Yesterday, the Mashpee filed for an emergency injunction to stop the Department of the Interior from dissolving their reservation.&quot; I was able to keep the background information, about when the reservation was established, why the Department wanted to dissolve it, and who the Mashpee are.
:Is there a specific, recent event that you think epitomizes South Korea's handling of the coronavirus? Was there an announcement yesterday or today? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:40, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
:: Wow, {{ping|Darkfrog24}}.  Saying &quot;I'm guessing because all those newspapers use professional journalists and we're amateurs or at least acting in amateur capacity&quot; while totally forgetting one of the core [[WN:pillars|pillars]] of wikinews.  Please stop deliberately spreading wrong or misleading information.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:48, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::::Please do not make accusations, Acagastya.  You and I have both been sensitive about that very recently.  Per [[WN:NEVERASSUME]] please do not say I am &quot;deliberately&quot; spreading misinformation.  I am saying what I'm saying because I believe it's correct.
::::In case this is the point of contention, the word &quot;[https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=amateur amateur]&quot; means we're doing this for fun/as a hobby rather than as a profession/to earn a living and as far as I know none of us went to journalism school.  It can mean &quot;unskillful&quot; when used as an adjective but not always. &quot;Wikinewsies are amateur journalists&quot; just means we don't get paid. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:57, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::: {{ping|Darkfrog24}} You are correct that the word &quot;deliberately&quot; is one to avoid in this situation.  However, you should have refrained from trying to explain how Wikinews works to a newcomer; you would need to accumulate much more Wikinews-fu yourself.  There ''are'' a number of fundamental errors in your presentation of Wikinews principles, misinforming a newcomer.  (I've said these few words here only so that they would be visible to the author of the article.  Further discussion in this vein should be taken elsewhere.) --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 00:21, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::I do not see why someone who has been here four years and drafted over a hundred published articles (I mean myself) should not tell a newcomer how they might one day come to do the same if they choose to continue volunteering their time.  But if you interpret the pillars differently from me, that is also quite natural, and Charis would benefit from hearing from more than one person. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 02:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::For the information of others, the &quot;elsewhere&quot; will be the Darkfrog24's personal talk page. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:54, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
:: Thank's Drarkfrog24 for improving the style, I re-added that the first week the results of PCR test are more reliable and the link to #flattenthecurve. I found that Korea offers in the &quot;Press release&quot; in the central COVID-19 portal that I cited (http://ncov.mohw.go.kr/en/) not the more detailed and up to date updates  of https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&amp;bid=0030. In update of 3 April is first graph a number of the new cases and second a ideal flat curve: https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&amp;bid=0030&amp;act=view&amp;list_no=366730&amp;tag=&amp;nPage=1. This is the official announcement of Korea. The success is as evident as if a sports team being able to win all games 3 weeks in a row. Which is also the first new event and the second is, that therefore just now the responsible persons in other countries start to discuss and plan similar methods as far as possible, mainly the tracking but also the surgery mask is now recommended in Germany - but only few available ;-)
:: Regards the rule of &quot;Discrete events&quot; = Newsworthiness: &quot;Each Wikinews article focuses on a news event.&quot; seems to be a traditional interpretation that is strange for me. Newsworthiness is for me something that is a change on a relevant factor of the present life, it must not be a discrete &quot;switch&quot;. That is for me a contraction to the continuous flow of life. All live is in an ongoing situation unless it has died. In this flow we humans mark events like a birthday but nature of live does not care. But an accepted rule I have to accepted to cooperate and could understand Darkfrog24's explanation and how to handle the rule - was very appreciated. I hope with 2 discrete events one will hit the rule :-) Charis 22:16, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::Another concept you should see is [[WN:FRESH]].  Usually, we publish things about events no more than two days ago.
:::I think this article is now a little better but I'm not sure it fully meets our standards yet. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:57, 3 April 2020 (UTC)}}

===&quot;Overkill&quot; and &quot;ignorant&quot;===

{{ping|Green Giant}} I just now read your response in the water cooler thread where I requested dispute resolution.  I don't agree with all of it, but I wanted input from an uninvolved party and that's what you are.  From this I am extracting, among other things, 1) You do think I'm allowed to remove talk page posts by others. 2) You think I should retract the &quot;it's overkill&quot; portion of my statement about Acagastya.  I have a question before I proceed.  It is important to me.

Do you think he should apologize for or otherwise retract the &quot;you are an ignorant&quot; comments that he made about me, which I feel are attacks, or do you feel that he's allowed to talk do that and should do it again?

I would like this block lifted, and I'm planning a proposal, but I think I need to know the answer to this first.  I also want your input on something.  I feel the core problem that has caused all this conflict is that the social privileges that Pi zero seems to believe reviewers and admins are to receive here on Wikinews are not written down.  The obvious answer would be to fix that by writing it all down.  However, this would require work not only on my part but by the community.  Even if I were to write the entire draft myself, the community would have to weigh in and there would be an approval process.  I see this as in conflict with your stated belief that we have to stop paying attention to my needs and get back to writing the news. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:14, 4 April 2020 (UTC)


===Working it all out===

As I've explained above, I believe the answer is to work out a code of conduct that's open and written down for all parties to see.  I&quot;m just thinking out loud here for the moment...

''By being elected as a reviewer or admin, the individual is not only authorized to review articles and perform technical duties but is also given the following social privileges over other Wikinewsies:''

*&lt;strike&gt;Drafters and other non-admins must address reviewers as Boss, admins as Teacher and Pi zero as Enlightened Master.&lt;/strike&gt; (This is crossed out because it is a counterexample, something I think you probably don't want.)
*Drafters are not allowed to give their opinions of admin actions except when filing a formal complaint, backed up by evidence.  For example &quot;it's overkill&quot; is not allowed.
*Admins and reviewers are allowed to give opinions, criticism, and personal attacks against others.  For example &quot;you are ignorant&quot; is allowed.
*It is forbidden to tell a reviewer that they are wrong under any circumstances. (see below)
*Drafters are only allowed to tell reviewers they are wrong if they can present sources, previous Wikinews articles or guidelines or policy proving or at least strongly suggesting it. (see above)
*No drafter is allowed to answer a new user's questions.
*Drafters are only allowed to answer new users' questions under the following criteria: 1... 2...
*Admins may, at will, tell non-admins &quot;you are not allowed to participate in this conversation.&quot;
*Admins may expect non-admins to behave as their personal inferiors, fully aware of their own lack of worth.  For example, they may say, &quot;You should have known that you are not knowledgeable enough to answer this new user's question,&quot; even if they have been on Wikinews for years and drafted many published articles.
[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:14, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
== 'Paradise Papers' reveal tax shelters for companies, politicians, royalty ==

I am not sure Pi zero will publish your   [['Paradise Papers' reveal tax shelters for companies, politicians, royalty]] story, so I will pretend your talkpage is the public comments section:

I don’t believe these 387 reporters are serving the public good by whipping up hysteria about rich people gaming the system. This is not a calm, rational discussion meant to inform. It is more of a lynch mob attacking ''the rich''.

Why am I saying this?

Well, first, there is the implication that the reason people invest globally is that they are thereby cheating on paying taxes. Take the Queen of England,  who admitted publicly to investing ''overseas'', but she also says she pays the taxes due.

Second, in the United States and in Canada (possibly in other countries too, don’t know?) Corporate income tax is different than personal income tax. The lumping of those two groups together, is again whipping up hysteria of massive tax evasion. 

As far as personal income tax is concerned, I really don’t understand this hysteria. If individuals, rich or less rich, do not pay their taxes, their income tax should be audited, and if they didn't pay they should be punished. Why attack all rich people with the assumption that because they invest in other countries, they are automatically corrupt?

As an aside, the United States has a almost-unique (other than Eritrea) personal tax system that tries to collect taxes from people who do not reside in the United States. For example Canadians (and other nationalities) who happened to be born in the United States, but have had no other connection to America, are expected by the IRS to file an American tax return every year. That means those unlucky Canadians must file and pay taxes to both Canada and the United States (I won’t bore you with the details of foreign tax credits). This affects every Canadian US-person , rich, not so rich and those in abject poverty.

On  top of this these ordinary citizens  are lumbered with much more complex filing requirements due to {{ w | FATCA |  FATCA legislation}} introduced during the Obama years, not to talk about the fact that the US arm-wrestled other countries to pick up the tab for implementing this legislation.

Am I making sense? If so I will continue when I get a chance. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 19:22, 8 November 2017 (UTC) &lt;Small&gt; Please ping me &lt;/Small&gt;

:Hi {{PAGENAME}} I believe you are still blocked here, not sure. I hope though, that you can still access your talkpage? Just wanted to share a  new development I have come across:
::https://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/2020/10/13/canadian-businessman-toronto-real-estate-firm-implicated-in-multi-million-dollar-offshore-tax-scheme-in-channel-islands.html
:Just trying to revive this old thread that seems to have disappeared from your talk page  about a topic I believe we are both interested in. Cheers, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 00:07, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
== Re: help template ==

Hey, thanks for your offer of help on my talk page, but I think I may have done it wrong. I put it there as a kind of &quot;I am a noob, beware my mistakes&quot;(not that I've made any contribs so far, shame on me), so sorry if it's not right, I'll take it down. And sorry again if this isn't how to reply to a message :P {{User:Steelthumbs}} &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[w:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Steelthumbs|Steelthumbs]] ([[User talk:Steelthumbs|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Steelthumbs|contribs]]) 14:05, 8 January 2017 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned2 --&gt;

=== Re-blocked ===

{{block|1=continued disruption per [[WN:BP#Disruption]]}}
In particular, that last subsection shows that you are clearly unwilling to consider anything that different people have written. You and others asked me to give an uninvolved view, which I did at WN:AAA. You can disagree with it but if you were expecting vindication, you’ve asked the wrong person. {{ping|Pi zero|Gryllida|Acagastya}} were blamed by you for being too involved. In order to ensure clarity and transparency I, an uninvolved administrator, have re-blocked your account for six months because of your disruptive comments after User:Pi zero blocked you. From this point on, you only have talk page access for one purpose:

# '''requesting an unblock in which you constructively address the reason for the block'''.

Despite what it says on the block notice, you may not request unblock on IRC or by email (which I’ve also revoked), because I prefer these things to be open and transparent (and the latter also because of the way you publicised confidential emails on your Meta Userpage). If you make any other edit on this talk page (e.g. like the ones in the above section), I will change the block to an indefinite one with talk page access revoked and we can continue on the same basis as your block on English Wikipedia. -[[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 13:14, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
:An uninvolved view is exactly what I asked for Green Giant, and I recognize you as uninvolved.  I will take some time to think about what kind of unblock request I would like to make and under what terms I would want to continue volunteering here. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:11, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
::See, Froggy.....? You just have a HORSEY way about you. Even your response here is: 'Let me work on my rebuttal and then we'll see if I intend to grace you all with my presence down the road.' I don't know you peronally.....I don't. But: I do know enough to say that you come across as a person with a personality disorder. When someone dares to correct you or even NUDGE YOU, your immediate response is to take on the reductionistic, hostile stance. You've written a few decent articles....you have and that is good. But: you are the kind of person around here who breaks more than they fix. Your presence here (mostly) just isn't worth the trouble you bring. I honestly think you '''like''' fighting. I hope you can look inward and maybe take a more positive stance in the future. --[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 18:39, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
{{outdent}} I have re-blocked your account indefinitely. This is due to two actions on your part:
* Firstly, I asked you to not make any edit other than an unblock request on this page but you did make such an edit. I let it go as a goodwill gesture at the time.
* Secondly, you have contacted me by email today, even though I specifically said I will not engage in any discussions by email or IRC.
* I have not revoked talk page access yet.
* I have also globally locked four disruptive accounts, which appeared in the days after your last block.
* Additionally I have globally blocked the IP range they operated in.
I am not going to insinuate that these were your accounts but suffice to say that such disruption needs to stop. Please bear in mind that your account is now within the criteria to be globally locked. Once that happens, it is a very, very long and difficult route to get back to being unlocked. --[[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 03:23, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

{{unblock-no|Green Giant|This appeal does not address the reasons for the block.
;Appeal reason
Hello, I am appealing the change in this block from six months to indef because I believe it was made in error.  Green Giant says he indeffed me because of an email that I sent to him. I think he may have misunderstood that email as containing an unblock request, which he did indeed clearly tell me not to do by email.

My email did not in fact contain or refer to any unblock request in any way.  It is a request for admin/steward assistance with another matter that came up suddenly.

[[Wikinews:Admin_action_alerts&amp;diff=4557683&amp;oldid=4557675|Here at AAA]], Green Giant states very clearly that emails about matters not related to the block are permitted.  It was based on this understanding that I sent the email.  Green Giant had also said that I must not use my talk page for anything but an unblock request, so email was my only option for requesting help.

Green Giant also raised a concern about sockpuppet accounts, but I can assure you that I am not the person behind those accounts. Everything we do here is in public view, and it is probably someone else aware of the case. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)}}
Here is a working link to [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews:Admin_action_alerts&amp;diff=4557683&amp;oldid=4557675 the AAA post] to which I refer above.  It seems the template doesn't work if there's a diff link in it. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

: An incidental technical note: the following notation provides a suitable link:
:: &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:WN:AAA|diff=4557683&amp;oldid=4557675}}|the AAA post}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;
: output of which looks like this:
:: {{plainlinks|{{fullurl:WN:AAA|diff=4557683&amp;oldid=4557675}}|the AAA post}}
: {{ping|Green Giant}} Since you have the email access, this request appears to be in your bailiwick. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|talk]]) 20:15, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
:: {{re|Pi zero}} thank you for the ping. I re-blocked indefinitely because I refuse to have email discussions about anything to do with your block. This is because full transparency is needed as a result of the factors outlined in the original block message by me. You are in acrimonious dispute with three other administrators and you have had opinions from two uninvolved administrators. Your action in publicly advertising the email communication you had with a Wikipedia administrator is a clear example that you do not respect the confidentiality of emails. I am completely unwilling to discuss the contents of your emails to me.
::If you require steward assistance, you can do so by making a request at Meta or if secrecy is necessary, emailing &lt;code&gt;stewards at wikimedia dot org&lt;/code&gt;. Your block on this wiki is not a steward issue. Your two current blocks (here and Wikipedia) together make you eligible for a global lock but this will not happen unless you create further disruption.
::I repeat what I typed earlier. If you want to return to this wiki, you will need to write a proper appeal addressing the issues you were blocked for and give us a cast-iron guarantee that you will not disrupt the wiki. Appealing for a change back to six months does not address the core issues. If at the end of six months you had not addressed the issues, what would stop this cycle repeating?
::I understand your declaration about sockpuppet accounts but they are just a diversion from the core issues but they do not impinge on your route to unblocking. I urge you to stop all peripheral actions around this block and consider carefully the reasons for the block. --[[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 21:22, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
== October 2020 ==

:::{{ping|Green Giant}} I am brainstorming an unblock request and I have some questions to ask you.  Ordinarily, I'd ask you privately, but you don't seem to like that.  Are you available to talk this week? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:15, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
{{outdent}} It is not that I do not like private messages. It is that you do not seem to respect the privacy of such messages. There is no need for a brainstorming session on the issue. You just need to promise that you will not repeat the disruptive behaviour '''AND''' stick to your promise. -- [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 10:49, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
:{{ping|Green Giant}} I have concerns and I request permission to talk to you about them.  Otherwise, no matter what promise I make or how perfectly I keep it, all this will just happen again. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 15:13, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
::What are the concerns? --[[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 12:06, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
:::There are a few.  Here's the first one:  In my experience, whenever there's a conflict and only one person is punished, the other parties read it as &quot;I did absolutely nothing wrong.  My actions have been endorsed as good.  I can and should repeat them&quot;&amp;mdash;and then they do.  Especially if it is possible to interpret events as &quot;the person who was punished was punished ''for'' telling me to stop/pointing it out/reporting me.&quot; Directly telling the person, &quot;X wasn't good. Don't do X again&quot; usually prevents this.
:::To head off any confusion, no I'm not calling for sanctions.  For one thing, it's months after the fact.  For another, I've known all these people for years and I think being told &quot;Don't do that again&quot; might be enough to put a stop to it.  I can name exactly who and exactly what if needed. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:05, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
{{ping|Green Giant}} See above. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:37, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
== New year, new Wikinews ==

{{tl|unblock}}I request unblock for two reasons: I have made changes to this talk page that will make the trigger problem--the argument in March 2019--less likely to recur.  I have also been reading conflict resolution books and have a plan for getting along with everyone here.  The public needs access to uninfluenced news coverage more than ever, and I look forward to contributing again. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:06, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
{{unblock-ok|1=Cromium|2=It has been more than a year since the last discussion and I’m happy to see an intention to be cooperative by an otherwise productive person}} ['''[[:User:Cromium|&lt;sub&gt;24&lt;/sub&gt;Cr]]''']['''[[:User talk:Cromium|talk]]'''] 01:26, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
== Correct and consistent punctuation ==

I personally agree with you there. It was the way I was taught in school, too. Pi zero insisted to me, that unless the period was in the original quote, one cannot assume the speaker was finished so the period should be ''after'' the quotation mark. He and I debated these things until he wore me down. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 03:34, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

:In fairness that's generally the policy taken by news agencies and standard for quoting sources: if the full text is &quot;Tax relief will come in several forms, the first of which will be launched today.&quot;, we would have the first section be (&quot;Tax relief will come in several forms&quot;.) and the second be (&quot;the first of which will be launched today.&quot;). [[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 03:43, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

::This is actually a British English/American English difference.  In American English, the period goes inside the adjacent closing quotation mark every time.  A British news agency would do it the way JJ describes but an American one wouldn't.  For example, here's the Associated Press' take [https://www.codot.gov/business/grants/safetygrants/assets/APStyleGuideCheatSheet.pdf].  Since the draft is about an American subject and written in American English, I used American rules.  You'll see I quite cheerfully use British rules where appropriate.
::Pi zero may have sincerely believed that the reader can't assume the speaker was finished, but the truth is that no such assumption is being made.  In American English, the closing period or comma is understood to be part of the quotation process. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 04:46, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
:::Pi zero was heavily influenced by BRS who is British as far as I know, so that may be an explanation. --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 23:28, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
::::It might also be his time in computer science.  Over the years, I've heard many different rationales from people who think this system or that is better than the other, including Pi zero's.  People with any background in computer programming tend to prefer British style and/or be driven nuts by American style.  I've heard that this sort of character-by-character issue can affect at least some computer programs, even though it does not affect human readers.  It's all about writing for your audience. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:42, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
:::::Visually, it still bothers me to no end to see punctuation marks outside of the quotation marks. But I guess I can learn to live with both styles. Cheers, [[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 02:42, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
== Nice to see you back ==

Did not know you were back until I saw [[Scientists use DNA analysis to track elephant poaching networks]]. Nice to see your work again. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 05:29, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
:Thank you, Ottawa.  Perhaps you and I shall collaborate sometime.  In the era of fake news, the public needs non-ad-influenced delivery more than ever. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:04, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
:: Any idea what the holdup is in approving [[Guilty verdict for first trial in the January 6 U.S. Capitol attack]]. Just curious -- if you feel my small addition is at fault, please feel free to remove it. I would hate your great story to go stale. Cheers,  [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 02:28, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
:::I am very confident that your small addition about Trump is not the holdup.  If it were, the reviewer could just remove it with no fuss. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:49, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
::::FYI ''pandora papers'' back in the news, you probably already know? [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 19:39, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
:::::I did not.  Wanna do a follow-up? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 21:37, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Just on one of my infrequent visits to WN looking for quotes. Hope you are well? Cheers [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 15:55, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
:{{ping|Ottawahitech}} Just got unblocked on en.wiki.  Now for the long, slow and hopefully uneventful process of regaining that community's trust. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 22:49, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
::Congratulations, though I hope it doesn't mean you will stop contributing to Wikinews. Cheers, [[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 22:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
:::No, but I will of course be splitting my time between three projects.  I was pleased to post &quot;Wikinews covered this&quot; over at [[w:spongy moth]] on my first day back.  Perhaps you can tell me, do those tags expire after a certain time or is there just a custom about taking them down after a week or two? (checks) And she's already gone. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:10, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
::::There is (my opinion only) a bias against Wikinews on Wikipedia. I have tried, in vain, to add links but it's just a matter of time before they get removed. Our best hope is links via Wikidata. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 23:16, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
::Congratulations! ...and lots of good luck. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 17:01, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
== Bans Off Our Bodies Protests across United States after leaked Supreme Court draft ==

Source for 6-weeks pregnant from [[q:Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]]:
*Six weeks pregnant means two weeks late for your period... And two weeks late on your period for any person -- any person with a menstrual cycle -- can happen if you're stressed, if your diet changes or for really no reason at all. So you don't have six weeks.
**[https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/abbott-abortion-fact-check/index.html  Fact Check: Texas abortion law doesn't give full 6 weeks to get an abortion, by Tara Subramaniam,''CNN''],  (September 9, 2021)

HTH, [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 23:38, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
== Requesting some c/e help ==

Greetings @ Darkfrog24 

If you are open to c/e requests, I am looking for help in copy edit help for news article [[Kerala: Cleric disappointed over school award organisers inviting girl student on the stage]].  

On en wp I work on rights related articles and also promote drafts article expansion having info or knowledge gaps. For example [[:w:My body, my choice]] is substantially contributed by me but English language not being my native language I am too dependent on c/e support.

Even if  [[Kerala: Cleric disappointed over school award organisers inviting girl student on the stage]] does not get approval this time I wish to learn here how to be on same page of the reviewers here, hence I will prefer to have specific inputs and c/e help if possible.

Thanks and warm regards

[[User:Bookku|Bookku]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 03:17, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
:Since it looks like this article is going to time out anyway, {{ping|Bookku}}, I would rather not.  But ping me the next time you have a draft working and I will gladly polish up the English. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:20, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
::Thanks That would be very nice of you. [[User:Bookku|Bookku]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 14:41, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
== United States Supreme Court overturns decades-old abortion decision ==

You did a great job in [[United States Supreme Court overturns decades-old abortion decision]]. Here are a couple of comments:
* terminology such as (Mississippi law limiting abortion to) '''no longer than 15 weeks into pregnancy'''&quot; should be changed to &quot;''' no longer than 13 weeks from conception'''. Why everyone uses terminology that has been favored by physicians who have their own convenient way of counting the weeks of pregnancy as starting from the end of the last menstrual cycle is anyone's guess. But for the sake of factual accuracy we should count abortion from the moment of conception, don't you agree? This will set WN as a  pioneer in reporting
* possibly remove &quot;acquire pills for medication abortion, &quot; (see comment below re economic inequality)

For future articles there will be many angles to cover:
* trigger laws in terms of weeks after conception. In other words, since abortion law is now regulated differently in every state, it would be good to know the # of week after conception limiting abortions in every state. btw I saw a useful map somewhere showing what states have enabled trigger laws, which allow abortion, and which have not changed. IIRC only 16 states now allow abortion.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Abortion_by_country   shows 114 articles in en-wikipedia about abortion by country
*economic equality issue - only relatively well-to-do women will be able to afford abortions in states that prohibit abortions because of prohibitive travel costs (medicated abortions must still be supervised by a physician, I think?)
* this will completely change society, not only women. Sex outside of marriage will return to the taboo it was, men will have to marry women who they have impregnated, women careers outside the home will suffer and with it educational institutions will suffer a loss of women students, etc.
* Companies -there have already been reports about companies that help employees access abortions
** SEE: [https://www.axios.com/2022/05/05/abortion-travel-benefit-uber-apple-amazon-lyft These companies are helping employeesaccess abortions]
* Canada and Mexico will have to brace for an huge increase demand for abortions, which is already causing debate in Canada, at least, about the shortage of abortion facilities. Abortion costs in Canada are cpaid for by universal health coverage [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 14:10, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

::Just found this on commons:
::[[File:Legal_status_of_abortion_by_US_state_without_Roe_v._Wade_(New_York_Times).svg|thumb|left]]
::There are more in: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Abortion_maps_of_the_United_States [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 14:36, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
{{ping|Ottawahitech}} This post belongs on the article's own talk page where anyone who wants to work on the article will see it.  I have to run, but I agree about your &quot;future angles&quot; section. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 19:58, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
== Please explain this revert ==

[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews%3AWater_cooler%2Fpolicy&amp;diff=4795940&amp;oldid=4795939 This] is what I'm talking about. Why did you revert that? If a user wishes to remove their own comments, why are you reverting that? [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 16:23, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

:An IP posted a post. The same IP removed that post. We do not have a case of one person removing a different person's post. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 20:38, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::This is exactly my point. An IP posted something and removed their own post. You readded it. Why? [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 21:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Oh, I see. You weren't asking why I ''removed'' someone else's post. You're asking why I ''re-added'' it. I see you do not have any form of private messaging enabled. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 23:45, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
::::I exist on IRC...but thats about it...yes. [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 01:11, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::If you're still curious, PM me. I just rejoined the Wikipedia channel and I'm on the Simple English Wikipedia channel as well. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 01:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] whats the simple IRC channel? But honestly I prefer on-wiki communication [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 01:26, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::The IRC for simple.wiki, the Simple English Wikipedia. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:04, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] I know, whats the link... [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 17:51, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:I'd like to know the answer also please, if you wouldn't mind. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 03:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::I have sent you a message privately. I trust you to be as discreet as is reasonably practical. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] would it be possible to tell me too... [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 17:51, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::::My preference would be 1) Gryllida tells you &quot;okay, it's clear there's no funny business going on&quot; and you take G at G's word but 2) if it would cause disruption to leave you in suspense, then enable a private mode of communication. I don't see you at #wikinews-en right now.
::::So stop and think. Where are you on the spectrum between &quot;need to know for concrete practical reason&quot; and &quot;just curious&quot;? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 18:07, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] if Gryllida says its okay I'm fine with that (although I now think I actually know what it is). It won't cause disruption. My place on that spectrum is that someone should know why &quot;it's clear there's no funny business going on&quot; because said revert is a bit strange, I don't care who it is. [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 18:36, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] has Darkfrog24 provided some satisfactory explaination of this to you? [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 20:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
::::::The revert and the additional edit re-adding the same content signed properly helped to revdel the previous revisions and hide the exposed IP. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] Thank you [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 20:31, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
== side note ==

There is a rule, which may or may not be written somewhere (let me know if you would like to see it), that communication with other contributors needs to be concise. Not everything thought of in your mind needs to come out: some things may be left unsaid if they are not going to lead to good consequences (being understood correctly, leading to other people or yourself doing good things). When something does need to be said, the &quot;way&quot; or &quot;manner&quot;, and also &quot;timing&quot;, both matter a lot regarding how effectively the desired outcome is achieved.

So a contributor constantly makes '''choices'''

* whether a thing needs to be said
* if yes, then how and when to say it

I would like to note to you that some of your communications, and choices, are lacking one or more of these things.

Suggesting to be more selective about what you are writing and more prompt to let others know your availability and commitment in the case it is reduced. 

If I know I am away this weekend, I won't start a draft, or I will but I will tell others that I am planning to be away.

If I see a contributor who is of another opinion, I have to be strategic about how I write to them: am I trying to persuade them or not? Is it going to work or is it going to result in no changes to their mindset?

There is a news writing mission, it does not work if contributors are distracted.

Suggesting you to think one step ahead, anticipating responses from others and whether this is what you want to achieve, before you post. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:47, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

:I'm already doing that, Gryllida. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:15, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
::I was suggesting that this is not the case. I am worried. I will give you three examples.
::* Often after writing a draft, when someone provides feedback, you don't revise. 
::* The drafts include background mixed with newsworthy information. Inverted pyramid is not followed. This was in recent Maori story. Thinking ahead, this can easily be avoided leading to the story being published.
::* Picking on words. There was some word-- &quot;suggested&quot; or &quot;recommendation&quot;, I don't remember which -- which led you to write, with several days delay, that you didn't and don't want to edit this because the proposed changes are &quot;not required&quot; i e. &quot;are optional&quot;.
::* At talk page of Me Da Wikipedian you proposed to share your point of view despite the discussion including phrases such as &quot;persona non grata&quot; and &quot;not making this talk page tourist attraction&quot; (from Acagastya) and Bddpaux remarking elsewhere that the user being here is highly inappropriate and they need to conpletely go away, even from their own talk page. (Phrase &quot;adding fuel to fire&quot; comes to mind).
::I am sure that for each of the above there can be a valid reason and motivation however I am '''concerned that things like these are not entirely helpful for efficient news writing''' and may drive good people away as a result of the lack of interest in actual results being achieved quickly and without noise.
::There is no AGF here. If a comment is noisy it is not assumed that the contributor didn't know or was confused. If a draft is not structured properly, good faith is not assumed. Not unless there is a good reason to.
::I don't need justification of any of the above points. I am only hoping that this is something that you can improve in future edits - that is more important to me. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:49, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
:::It sounds like you're concerned that I didn't engage with your review of the one article I drafted recently. That is deliberate. You and I have too much history.  A reviewer may make suggestions or commands that I may choose not to act on. My attempts to explain in the past resulted in fights. I quietly accepted that the article would succeed or fail without me because experience has shown me that this is the best thing to do.
:::My one and only comment on Me Da's block was posted ''before'' Acagastya made the &quot;tourist attraction&quot; post (&quot;persona non grata&quot; does not show up on CTRL-F). Since this is the second time this week you've noted that I did not follow orders/suggestions/etc. that had not yet been posted, I will feel free to ask you to check the timestamps next time. I observe that many users spoke on Me Da's talk page, but you do not seem to have posted on their talk pages about it.
:::I invite you to use my history here at Wikinews to evaluate the review system, drafter retention, and article quality and save the site, with or without my direct help. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:33, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
::::It is not about &quot;orders&quot;. It is about your expectation of the direct (i.e. what Gryllida or Me Da Wikipedian will reply to you) and indirect (how this will affect others and their involvement) responses.
::::I don't think my comments at the Maori story were too ... nostalgic of a &quot;history&quot; between us two. They were rather clear and non controversial. To me. I tried to invest my time and effort into being clearer to you than I was previously. I was trying to think of the &quot;direct&quot; response.
::::The other aspect, the &quot;indirect&quot; one. Other contributors didn't have any way to know that you walked away from the article.
::::So instead of saying &quot;Gryllida, your comments didn't look required, looked optional&quot; next year.
::::Why not '''''call things their proper names'''''? Write &quot;I didn't like your feedback yesterday, Gryllida, and I don't like your comments today either. They still suffer the same problems. Specifically this and that and that&quot;.
::::And why not write &quot;I am not going to edit this article, communication with you, Gryllida, is more than I am willing to bear today&quot;?
::::Plus even if I am annoying or incompetent in the feedback I write, at least '''some''' improvement could be devised from the noise I made. The inverted pyramid wasn't followed, that's pretty unambiguous.
::::Why not do it straight away, so that someone has a chance to edit the article for you, instead of waiting?
::::Maybe there is a reason why you did it differently to what I wrote above. I would be curious to hear it.
::::-------
::::It seems to me that you care of direct response (Gryllida left a message, yoi didn't reply, therefore Gryllida won't bother you) but nothing of the indirect one (others await your answers, don't touch the story, consider you unresponsive therefore the desire to jump in and edit diminishes, etc), consider you shy and slow (as you don't call things their proper names straight away). These aspects might matter a lot in a group of more than two people.
::::(I tend to jump in after author is away for 12 hours, but only for stories I can understand. Names of New Zealand monarchs is too much for me. It did seem your knowledge of it was unique and not possessed by someone else.) [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 20:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::I'm going to engage with the review process in a different way because doing so can to prevent the kind of trouble we had years ago. I said I had a plan, and I meant and mean it. If that means you prefer to spend your volunteered time and energy elsewhere, that's only fair. Hopefully, we will fix up the site and get so many more drafters that our history won't matter. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:47, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
== Additional reviewers ==

I appreciate and commend the collaborative mentorship work you're doing with Melledelle. That kind of teamwork is exactly what en.WN needs to move forward and break free from our [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/The_problem|perennial challenges]].

We’re in urgent need of more active reviewers. How would you feel about the possibility of being nominated for reviewer in the future? —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:20, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

:I think it is necessary to remember that Melledelle agreed to some level of mentorship while we talked on en.wiki. I asked for and received permission to interact with M in this way.
:I'd be fine with it, but I need you to remember that I was turned down before and ''why'': The most likely reason is because my vision for this site and the way users should treat each other differs profoundly from the one Pii zero and other people in official positions had for it at the time and may or may not still have at present.
:I'll check out your essay. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 00:32, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
== Top article in January! ==

[[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025.webp|thumb|left|alt=Award for highest monthly page-views.|Contributing author for the top article published in January, 2025. The article has at least 1,558 views!]] Thank you for contributing to the article titled &quot;[[US President Trump orders government recognize male, female as only sexes]].&quot; The article has the most number of page-views of all articles published in January of 2025. 

Thank you for your continued contributions! —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:01, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
{{clear}}&lt;!--keep the template:clear so new sections are bumped up to wrap around image--&gt;
== Welcome back sort of???? ==

Glad to see you here... {{ping|Darkfrog24}} [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 11:17, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

:I think you understand it well. It's partly because of your message but the truth is I saw a news story that was able to hold my interest long enough to put together a draft.
:If Wikinews really is struggling then we need to change a few things, even if only temporarily. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 17:07, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
== Luigi ==

Hi, they frequently get on me to write in past tense in the Reviwer's notes, so that is why the Luigi article was written the way it was. Let me know if you have any questions [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 19:15, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

:Short answer, no it's not supposed to be past tense. Luigi M is still in prison and has not been released, so you say he is in prison, not was in prison. The Wikinews Manual of Style says that the ''article'' should be in the past tense but that does not mean that every verb should be in the past tense. If you look at published news articles, you'll see that they treat their verbs the same way.
:Also, somes of our reviewers speak English as a subsequent language&amp;mdash;it's not a secret; many of us post our language skill levels on our userpages&amp;mdash;and it's not unusual for them to make mistakes with this famously inconsistent language. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:30, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
::It may be fair to tell you that there was a huge fight about this some years ago. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 12:32, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Do you have a link to the discussion? I'm intrigued [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 14:09, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Not off the top of my head, but when I call it a fight, I mean it wasn't a serious discussion that set precedent for Wikinews practice going forward. I mean it was a ''fight''. It was about the social dynamic of the site, specifically whether drafters have to obey reviewers even if they have proof that the reviewer is wrong. It did not come to any usable conclusion. But this was years ago, long enough for people to change their minds about some or even all of it, so there is no sense putting any one person on the spot.
::::Short answer, ''you'' are responsible for every edit you make even if you are just following orders. If a reviewer tells you to do something bad, or if anyone reacts negatively proof that part of the review is incorrect or unnecessary or even just not how you want to spend your volunteered time, remember that you have the option of making no response and leaving the article to be published or time out without further input from you. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 14:36, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::I mean, it's a wiki/collab community, so worst case scenario if I do something wrong it can be corrected or reverted (which you did, which I appreciate). [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 16:12, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::I hope that that has become the norm. I was active from 2016 in through the pandemic, and then completely gone, and am now far less active. The dynamic may have changed considerably. [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:46, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::It's a work in progress. Thanks for talking to me about this. Onward and upward! [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 16:59, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
== Hi ==

How are you friend? @[[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:16, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

:Of whom? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:20, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::You silly, lol [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:21, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:::You feeling okay, BK? [[User:Darkfrog24|Darkfrog24]] ([[User talk:Darkfrog24|talk]]) 16:22, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Somewhat [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 16:38, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
== Top article in May! ==

[[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025.webp|thumb|left|alt=Award for highest monthly page-views.|Contributing author for the top article published in May, 2025. The article has at least 1,768 views!]] Thank you for contributing to the article titled  &quot;[[Authorities arrest Belarusian Wikipedia sysop and only bureaucrat Maksim Lepushenka]].&quot; The article has the most number of page-views of all articles published in May of 2025.

Keep up the great work!

{{clear}}&lt;!--keep the template:clear so new sections are bumped up to wrap around image--&gt;

[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:14, 19 June 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c9w56cv115wh29u02btn7rql6m7kssq</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Thousands march in anti-Brexit protest, London</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
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        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>New category. See [[Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum#Possible move]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="5867" sha1="pu3xdose75qkngzocblbbu1ylev3plb" xml:space="preserve">{{United Kingdom}}
{{date|March 28, 2019}}
Estimates by event organizers indicate roughly one million people marched in [[London]] on Saturday during an anti-[[Brexit]] (&quot;British exit&quot;) march, protesting the pending exit of the [[United Kingdom]] from the [[European Union]] (EU).

Protesters, carrying placards asking the government to revoke {{w|Article 50}} &amp;mdash; the EU treaty clause invoked by Brexit &amp;mdash; and [[European Union]] flags, marched from {{w|Hyde Park Corner}} to Parliament. The mayor of London, {{w|Sadiq Khan}}, {{w|twitter|tweeted}}, &quot;Here in London, thousands of people from across our city and country have come together with @peoplesvote-uk to send a clear message: Enough is enough - it's time to give the British public the final say on Brexit.&quot;

There were several speakers at the rally, including First Minister of {{w|Scotland}} {{w|Nicola Sturgeon}}, {{w|Labour Party (UK)|Labour}} MP ({{w|UK House of Commons|Member of Parliament}}) {{w|Tom Watson}}, and Sadiq Khan. Tom Watson called Prime Minister [[Theresa May]]'s proposed Brexit deal &quot;lousy&quot; and said he would only vote for it if the British people could also vote for or against it. Nicola Sturgeon said it was &quot;the moment of maximum opportunity&quot; for stopping a no-deal Brexit.

Some of the protesters ''Wikinews'' interviewed said they had gone to &quot;defend [their] children's right to live and work in Europe&quot; and &quot;secure [their own] right to work in the EU&quot;. One interviewee said people changed their minds and several said they wanted the politicians to stop ignoring them.

Not everyone agreed there should be another referendum. One MP told the {{w|BBC}}, &quot;We know that 16 million people wanted to stay in the EU, and some of those would still like to stay in the EU, and within that quite a few would like to have another go and have another referendum &amp;mdash; but it was always a minority&quot;.

In 2016, the United Kingdom held a referendum on whether to remain part of the European union, which it joined in 1973. About 52% of participating voters voted to leave and 48% to stay.

&lt;gallery widths=&quot;300&quot; heights=&quot;200&quot;&gt;
File:2019-03-23 Put it to the People 01.jpg|Stage where speeches were given. {{image|[[Commons:Special:Contributions/C.Suthorn|C.Suthorn]]}}
{{missing image|File:Anti-Brexit March.jpg|Protesters with flags and a banner from People's Vote saying &quot;put it to the people&quot;. {{image|{{w|Voice of America}}}}}}
File:Flags and placards at the People's Vote march, London, 23 March 2019.jpg|Protesters at the march. {{image|[[Commons:User:Andrew Gray|Andrew Gray]]}}
File:Panoramic of Trafalgar Square.jpg|Trafalgar Square. {{image|[[Commons:User:Mirrys|Mirrys]]}}
File:People's Vote March at Parliament Square .jpg|Parliament Square. {{image|[[Commons:User:Mirrys|Mirrys]]}}
File:Brexit March (133 of 134) (32516969787).jpg|&quot;Revoke arrrticle 50&quot; poster at anti-Brexit march in March 2019. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/144624646@N05 Thomas Davies] ({{w|flickr}})}}
File:'Where is David Cameron? Danny Dyer for PM' sign, anti-Brexit march (46733679694).jpg|&quot;Where is David Cameron? Danny Dyer for PM&quot; sign. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/12383598@N00 mia!] ({{w|flickr}})}}
File:Put it to the People march, London, 23 March 2019.jpg|Another part of the march. {{image|[[Commons:User:Michael Maggs|Michael Maggs]]}}
File:185A4949 (40500836673).jpg|Lots of protestors. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/130535894@N08 John Lubbock] ({{w|flickr}})}}
File:185A4998 (40500808523).jpg|Placards. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/130535894@N08 John Lubbock] ({{w|flickr}})}}
File:2019-03-23 Put it to the People 32.jpg|EU flags and placards. {{image|[[Commons:Special:Contributions/C.Suthorn|C.Suthorn]]}}
File:Put it to the People - 05 (32514617407).jpg|Children. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/8176740@N05 Garry Knight] ({{w|flickr}})}}
File:Peoples Vote March 2019-03-23 14.10.23.jpg|More protestors. {{image|[[Commons:User:Chris j wood|Chris j wood]]}}
File:23 March 2019 stop brexit march mime artists against brexit.jpg|Mime artists against Brexit. {{image|[[Commons:Special:Contributions/EliasHabermas|EliasHabermas]]}}
File:185A4898 (46743771354).jpg|In front of a WW2 monument. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/130535894@N08 John Lubbock] ({{w|flickr}})}}
File:Put it to the People - 07 (32514610797).jpg|Protestors wearing EU flags. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/8176740@N05 Garry Knight] ({{w|flickr}})}}
File:185A4991 (33590327268).jpg|Protestor dressed as the {{w|Grim Reaper}} in Whitehall. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/130535894@N08 John Lubbock] ({{w|flickr}})}}
File:185A4925 (47413984622).jpg|People holding a banner saying &quot;united in diversity&quot;. {{image|[https://www.flickr.com/people/130535894@N08 John Lubbock] ({{w|flickr}})}}
&lt;/gallery&gt;
{{have your say}}

==Sources==
*{{source|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46318565|pub=BBC News Online|title=Brexit: Your simple guide to the UK leaving the EU|author=|date=March 26, 2019}}

*{{source
|url=https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-march-2019-hundreds-of-thousands-descend-on-central-london-demanding-a-people-s-vote/ar-BBV89UP?ocid=AMZN
|pub=Evening Standard
|author=Patrick Grafton-Green, Olivia Tobin, Jacob Jarvis
|title=Brexit march 2019: Hundreds of thousands descend on central London demanding a People’s Vote
|date= March 23, 2019
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47678763
|date= March 23, 2019
|title=Brexit march: Million joined Brexit protest, organisers say
}}

{{Original}}

{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}

[[Category:2016 UK EU referendum]][[Category:United Kingdom]][[Category:European Union]][[CAT:Politics and conflicts]][[CAT:London]]
[[Category:Nicola Sturgeon]]
[[Category:UK Parliament]]
[[Category:UK House of Commons]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:Sadiq Khan]]
[[Category:Brexit]]</text>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [['Let's finish this job': US President Joe Biden announces 2024 reelection bid]]
* [[US jury finds Proud Boys members guilty of seditious conspiracy, other charges]]
* [[Former US President Donald Trump pleads not guilty over alleged attempts to 'subvert' 2020 presidential election results]]
* [[Georgia grand jury indicts former US President Trump, alleging 'conspiracy to unlawfully change outcome' of 2020 presidential election]]
* [[US political commentator Tucker Carlson, Fox News separate]]
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{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[:Category:2020 United States presidential election|All articles in category]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for the {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title={{urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}&amp;action=purge Refresh]''

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    <title>Queen Elizabeth agrees to suspend UK Parliament ahead of Brexit deadline</title>
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      <comment>New category. See [[Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum#Possible move]]</comment>
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{{date|August 29, 2019}}

Yesterday&lt;!--Wednesday--&gt;, the [[United Kingdom]]'s [[Queen Elizabeth II]] announced she will comply with the request of Prime Minister [[Boris Johnson]] to suspend [[UK Parliament|Parliament]] for parts of September and October. Critics from across Britain's political spectrum have claimed this is a move by Johnson to foil opposition to his plans for a no-deal [[Brexit]] by October 31.
[[File:Boris_Johnson GOV UK (cropped).jpg|thumb|left|Prime Minister Boris Johnson asked Queen Elizabeth II to suspend Parliament this fall.{{image|Gov.UK}}]]
Per the request, Parliament would meet briefly in early September and then not reconvene until October 14, two weeks before the current Brexit deadline.&lt;!--NPR--&gt; According to Johnson, this break will allow him to develop plans for his administration, which he is to present on October 14, the same day the Queen is scheduled to give a speech.

According to Johnson's critics, this is a ploy to achieve a no-deal Brexit, meaning the UK would cease to be part of the [[European Union]] (EU) without any specific arrangements made about trade, tariffs, the {{w|European Court of Justice}}, the border between [[Northern Ireland]] and the [[Republic of Ireland]], trademarks, and other matters. Currently, the British parliament has a majority against a no-deal Brexit.

&quot;We're not going to wait until Oct. 31 before getting on with our plans to take this country forward&quot;, Johnson said in an interview. &quot;This is a new government with a very exciting agenda&quot;.&lt;!--NPR--&gt;

[[UK Labour Party|Labour Party]] leader [[Jeremy Corbyn]] called the move a &quot;smash and grab on our democracy&quot;.

[[UK House of Commons|House of Commons]] Speaker {{w|John Bercow}} commented on the matter &amp;mdash; which the ''BBC'' noted as an unusual move by a Speaker &amp;mdash; &quot;However it is dressed up, it is blindingly obvious that the purpose of [suspending Parliament] now would be to stop [Parliament] debating Brexit and performing its duty in shaping a course for the country.&quot;&lt;!--BBC--&gt;

Prime Minister Johnson told the public via [[Twitter]], &quot;Jeremy Corbyn wants to cancel the referendum and argue about Brexit for years [...] I am committed to leading our country forward and getting Britain out of the EU by October 31st.&quot;&lt;!--NPR--&gt;

Member of Parliament (MP) [[Yvette Cooper]] of the Labour Party added, &quot;Boris Johnson is trying to use the Queen to concentrate power in his own hands — this is a deeply dangerous and irresponsible way to govern.&quot;&lt;!--NPR--&gt;

[[UK Conservative Party|Conservative]] MP {{w|Philip Hammond}} commented, &quot;It would be a constitutional outrage if Parliament were prevented from holding the government to account at a time of national crisis.&quot;&lt;!--NPR--&gt;

In the government of the United Kingdom, the monarch is the head of state but not the head of government. Officially, the monarch is allowed to ''{{w|Prorogation in the United Kingdom|prorogue}}'' a session of Parliament, in which it is suspended but not officially dissolved. During prorogation, the members of parliament may not officially debate or work on laws or policies.&lt;!--NPR--&gt; According to the {{w|House of Commons Library}}, in the past few decades most prorogations have been for at most two weeks.

{{haveyoursay}}

== Sources == 

*{{source
|url    = https://www.npr.org/2019/08/28/754990771/britains-prime-minister-asks-queen-to-suspend-parliament-ahead-of-brexit-deadlin 
|title  = Queen Will Suspend U.K. Parliament At Boris Johnson's Request
|author = Shannon Van Sant and Bill Chappell
|pub    = NPR
|date   = August 28, 2019
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49493632
|title  = Parliament suspension: Queen approves PM's plan
|author = 
|pub    = BBC News Online
|date   = August 28, 2019
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48511379 
|title  = What is 'no-deal Brexit'?
|author = 
|pub    = BBC News Online
|date   = August 6, 2019
}}

{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}

[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:UK Parliament]]
[[Category:UK House of Commons]]
[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:2016 UK EU referendum]]
[[Category:Queen Elizabeth II]]
[[Category:Boris Johnson]]
[[Category:Jeremy Corbyn]]
[[Category:Yvette Cooper]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:Brexit]]</text>
      <sha1>2lvou2pe7v9u8oa2hbrhhrjwtymhyji</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>UK Prime Minister Johnson suspends parliament for five weeks as Brexit deadline approaches</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>2878319</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008692</id>
      <parentid>4828401</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:41:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>New category. See [[Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum#Possible move]]</comment>
      <origin>5008692</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4156" sha1="jmpzj78cn0u24cocnaqwz7egahtek5w" xml:space="preserve">{{date|September 11, 2019}}
{{United Kingdom}}
Per request of [[United Kingdom]] [[prime minister of the United Kingdom|Prime Minister]] [[Boris Johnson]], the [[Elizabeth II|Queen]] suspended [[UK Parliament|parliament]] for five weeks yesterday&lt;!--on Tuesday--&gt;. The move, called {{w|prorogation}}, came after a second motion for {{w|snap elections}} failed to pass. The United Kingdom is in the process of leaving the [[European Union]] which has been termed [[Brexit]] for &quot;''British exit''&quot;.

[[File:Johnson met with Macron for Brexit issue.jpg|thumb|left|Johnson (r) discusses Brexit with [[Emmanuel Macron]] of [[France]] in August {{Image|paren=yes|UK Prime Minister}}]]
Monday's bid for October elections failed to get the two-thirds majority required. According to the [[BBC]], it is commonplace for new governments &amp;mdash; Johnson became prime minister in July &amp;mdash; to suspend parliament, but apparently using it as a tool in his [[Brexit]] strategy has been controversial. Parliament is to remain out-of-session through October 14; the Brexit deadline is October 31.

The [[United Kingdom]] voted on June 23, 2016, to leave the European Union in the [[2016 UK EU referendum|Brexit referendum]]. The original deadline to leave was extended previously to its current date, but it is Johnson's stated intent for the UK to leave with or without a trade deal with the EU and not seek any further extensions. 

&quot;[W]e must get Brexit done, because the UK must come out [...] by October 31st, or else I fear that permanent damage will be done in the UK to trust our democratic system&quot;, Johnson said in a video statement released in conjunction with a visit to [[Ireland]] with [[Taoiseach]] [[Leo Varadkar]].

During these five weeks of prorogation, parliament cannot pass legislation, as no votes, debates or {{w|Prime Minister's Questions}} can take place. Members of the [[UK House of Commons|House of Commons]] protested by shouting &quot;shame on you!&quot; and holding signs which read &quot;silenced&quot; during Monday's final session.

Opposition leader [[Jeremy Corbyn]] said his [[Labour Party (UK)|Labour Party]] &quot;[are] eager for an election &amp;mdash; but as keen as we are, we are not prepared to risk inflicting the disaster of no deal on our communities, our jobs, our services, or indeed our rights&quot;.

Johnson asked [[Queen Elizabeth II]] for this prorogation in August. Johnson became leader of the [[Conservative Party (UK)|Conservative Party]] and prime minister after [[Theresa May]] stepped down on July 24 after she was unable to negotiate a Brexit deal.

{{haveyoursay}}

== Related news ==
*{{wikinews|Queen Elizabeth agrees to suspend UK Parliament ahead of Brexit deadline|August 29, 2019}}
*{{wikinews|Boris Johnson elected Conservative leader, slated to be Britain's next Prime Minister|July 24, 2019}}
*{{wikinews|Britain votes to leave the European Union|June 25, 2016}}

== Sources == 

*{{source
|url    = https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49645338
|title  = Brexit: Protests as five-week Parliament suspension begins
|author = 
|pub    = BBC News Online
|date   = September 10, 2019
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.npr.org/2019/09/10/759285001/u-k-parliament-recesses-as-boris-johnson-reels-from-string-of-defeats
|title  = U.K. Parliament Recesses As Boris Johnson Reels From String Of Defeats
|author = Colin Dwyer
|pub    = NPR
|date   = September 10, 2019
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1171095244940750848
|title  = Statement from UK Prime Minister
|author = Boris Johnson
|medium = Video
|pub    = Twitter
|date   = September 9, 2019
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.vox.com/2019/4/11/18305082/brexit-news-deadline-october-31-eu-theresa-may
|title  = The new Brexit deadline is October 31
|author = Jen Kirby
|pub    = Vox
|pubtarget=Vox (website)
|date   = April 11, 2019
}}

{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}

[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:European Union]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:2016 UK EU referendum]]
[[Category:UK Parliament]]
[[Category:Jeremy Corbyn]]
[[Category:Boris Johnson]]
[[Category:Queen Elizabeth II]]
[[Category:Brexit]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:CheatCodes4ever</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>2922612</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008322</id>
      <parentid>5008272</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:00:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Notifying about the review of [[United_States_announces_blockade_on_the_Strait_of_Hormuz]]</comment>
      <origin>5008322</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text bytes="16475" sha1="s02z1c7nh6h4h10p5vgby72fs5w7rj4" xml:space="preserve">==dates==
Hello,

[[Bruce Lehrmann judge says he has no links to published book of judgement]] lists a few events

* Michael Lee has said that he had no involvement in a book written about his judgement in the trial.
* Lee found that considering a balance of probabilities, it was likely that Lehrmann had raped fellow political staffer Brittany Higgins,
* Melbourne University Press announced it would publish a book about his judgement entitled He Went Back for His Hat. 
* a spokesperson for the Federal Court of Australia said that neither the court nor Lee were involved in the writing or publication of the book.
* Lehrmann has appealed against his loss in the lawsuit. 

'''When''' did these events happen? Especially the focal event (points 1 and 4).

Please add. Ref: [[WN:IP|inverted pyramid]], [[WN:5W|5W]].

Thank you. [[File:Smiley.svg|20px]] [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:09, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
:Hi, are you still available? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 21:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Gryllida}} Yeah sorry, I was unable to deal with this immediately. I have added dates when I could; if a date is not listed specifically, it presumably happened the same day as everything else.
*This happened on October 15. The date is at the top of the page; since it is the first thing said, I would think one would presume it would have happened on the date.
*I have specified this was in the conclusion of the trial, which is dated earlier on the page as April 2024.
*This presumably happened on October 15.
*Same as above
*I have dated this.
[[User:CheatCodes4ever|CheatCodes4ever]] ([[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|talk]]) 11:12, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
::a reviewer has requested more edits, please check article talk page and revise a.s.a.p [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
:{{tq|This happened on October 15. The date is at the top of the page; since it is the first thing said, I would think one would presume it would have happened on the date.}} The date at the top of the article reflects the article's publication date and will be updated once the article passes review. To ensure clear and accurate reporting, it's essential to explicitly address the &quot;When&quot; in the article's prose. For example, rather than relying solely on the article's publication date, use language similar to, 'in a statement released on October 15, a spokesperson said...' This provides clarity and accuracy. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[:Category:Michael.C.Wright_(Wikinewsie)|Published]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:06, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} Alright fair enough. [[User:CheatCodes4ever|CheatCodes4ever]] ([[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|talk]]) 20:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

== Hi ==

I would like to propose writing news together, you are welcome to participate as either a writer or as tipper (or both). 

As a news tipper share url to a '''today event''' here [[WN:RA]]. Make sure you click &quot;subscribe&quot; in your new section and keep checking notifications twice a day.

As a news writer click &quot;subscribe&quot; on that page and any time someone leaves a note, if it indeed is current event, then make a tiny article about it. Just find two sources, answer 5Ws, keep it around 101-150 words. (Bait for easy reviewing here).

Please let me know how you would like to be involved?

Regards, 🙂 [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:51, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

== [[Snorkeller drowns at popular Gold Coast swimming spot]] ==
Hi. Unfortunately this had to be not-ready'd again. Please see my review comments on the article's talk page. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 05:28, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

==Article reviewed==
I just reviewed [[Trump removes X gender option on American passports]] and noted a few areas where it could be improved.

I'll keep an eye out for it to be re-submitted for review. I typically have time to review articles before noon (Pacific Time). Thank you for sticking with it! —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:04, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
:Yes to the above - and: Can you add maybe an image or two to 'fancy' it up just a hair?--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:06, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

==Swimming article==
Please don't get discouraged. Keep at it!! We must maintain a certain distance from source articles. Stay with it! Let me know if I can help in any way.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:12, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Bddpaux}} It is far past the point where it was newsworthy. [[User:CheatCodes4ever|CheatCodes4ever]] ([[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|talk]]) 00:28, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
::[[Search for South Australia shark attack victim formally called off|This]] too. Missed it. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 02:55, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

== Top article in January! ==

[[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025.webp|thumb|left|alt=Award for highest monthly page-views.|Original author for the top article published in January, 2025. The article has at least 1,558 views!]] Thank you for starting the article titled &quot;[[US President Trump orders government recognize male, female as only sexes]].&quot; The article has the most number of page-views of all articles published in January of 2025. 

Thank you for your continued contributions! —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:58, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
{{clear}}&lt;!--keep the template:clear so new sections are bumped up to wrap around image--&gt;
:As the original author, you can also use the following userbox on your user page: 

{{userbox
| id = [[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025-mini.png|40px]]
| info = ''This user was the original author of the [[Wikinews:2025 Boost publication rate/Monthly top article|top article]] for January, 2025''
| border-s = 1
}}
{{clear}}

:Thanks again! —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:55, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

==Paul Keating article==
We have this little sticky wicket around here: Imagine ''Neutrality'' and ''the Spirit of Neutrality'' as two siblings, that share a bit of animosity between themselves. Reviewers (often) have to understand that weird thing, and try to manage it. This article seems pretty solid (only gave it about a 2-minute read, nothing more) -- but in terms of the Spirit of Neutrality, it has a pinch more '''bite''' to it that I think is proper for this project. Can you take a few steps to maybe &quot;neutralize&quot; the language just a hair?--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 17:09, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Bddpaux}} What specifically do you think I should change? [[User:CheatCodes4ever|Cheat]][[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|Codes]][[Special:Contributions/CheatCodes4ever|4ever]] ([[User:CheatCodes4ever/sandbox|sandbox]] | [[m:Special:CentralAuth/CheatCodes4ever|CentralAuth]]) 20:34, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
::I am copying in the first two paragraphs (as they sit now) below:
&lt;br&gt;&quot;Former Prime Minister of Australia, Paul Keating, reportedly gave the current Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Albanese, advice regarding his first face-to-face meeting with US President Donald Trump, giving him &quot;fighting words&quot; in case things became heated.

Keating informed the audience at the State Library of New South Wales last night. &quot;I did give our prime minister a heap of fighting points in the event that Trump turned nasty on him,&quot; he revealed. &quot;It turned out he didn't have to use them.&quot; Keating also commented that he felt that Albanese was &quot;up for having Australia punch back&quot; if Trump had indeed became more hostile. &quot;If you showed the slightest sign of weakness, you're buggered with him,&quot; he added.&quot; 
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;Essentially: Our lede (and certainly our focal event, based on the title) is that a notable person advised another notable person about strategic mechanisms to use in an upcoming meeting. I don't know -- sometimes, as I type, I re-think things. I wonder, if re-calibrating things so that the TOP of the inverted pyramid here is actually the meeting itself...(and outcomes?) -- then a bit or two about the advice that was given. Was any other advice given, beyond &quot;fighting words&quot; -- I'm just not sure that &quot;a notable person told another notable person how to properly tell Donald Trump off, if needed&quot; is a credible way to start an article, in terms of neutrality.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 22:54, 6 November 2025 (UTC)
::If we confirm the news value of &quot;Paul Keating advising Anthony Albanese about his first meeting with Donald Trump&quot;, then that's the article's main point, and the existing structure seems fine. A former prime minister offering diplomatic advice to the current prime minister is a relatively rare political phenomenon in most places, and therefore has news value. If this opening has supporting evidence, why can't it be trusted? I don't detect any bias in it. [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 00:07, 8 November 2025 (UTC)
:::Amidst it all — seems to have gone stale. You familiar with gatwicking?—[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 16:41, 23 November 2025 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Bddpaux}} I am but I don't think it can be applied in this case. [[User:CheatCodes4ever|Cheat]][[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|Codes]][[Special:Contributions/CheatCodes4ever|4ever]] ([[User:CheatCodes4ever/sandbox|sandbox]] | [[m:Special:CentralAuth/CheatCodes4ever|CentralAuth]]) 20:18, 23 November 2025 (UTC)

== invite to edit 24/11 ==

Based on Taglet report the following 3 stories would benefit from editing

* [[Midtown Manhattan Nightclub Shooting: One Killed, Shooter at Large]] expand submit for review, event nov-23
* [[3.2 earthquake hits near San Ramon, California]] submit it for review now mate Nov-20
* [[Dina Titus presses Nevada governor over dropped probe, fine against Musk’s Boring Co.]] minor editing for structure. check copyright of 3 large quotes. get info or comment from FD -- Nov-20 
* [[UN Security Council approves Trump peace plan for Gaza]] major news, too short. see [[WN:IP]]. only work on it if it can be refreshed. Nov-18

There are 5-10 others that can be refreshed with some effort, also, in the report.

Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 23:38, 23 November 2025 (UTC)

== Your article submission for review (December 3) ==
{{Notify_review/passed|article=Australian_MP_Barnaby_Joyce_resigns_from_the_National_Party|author=CheatCodes4ever|reviewer=Michael.C.Wright}} -- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:20, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

== Revision requested: [[Police suggest alleged Bondi shooters did not receive training]] (January 3) ==
1) First paragraph does not specify 5W. Please revise it to include this information.

2) 'training' is vague. Please see talk page. Please clarify this in headline and in the text.

3) Some passages are copied from sources. 

3a) Please don't use the 'Copy' button when you are writing articles at Wikinews. If you do, please paste into quotation marks to ensure your pasted content will be fully reworded.

3b) Please revise the text, using the Earwig copyvio checker linked in the 'Reviewer tools' part of the box, to ensure everything is written in your own words.

After these issues are fixed, please re-submit for review. Thank you. -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 04:50, 3 January 2026 (UTC)

== Published: [[White House deletes Truth Social post portraying Obamas as apes]] (February 7) ==
{{Notify_review/passed|article=White House deletes Truth Social post portraying Obamas as apes|author=CheatCodes4ever|reviewer=Michael.C.Wright}} -- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:15, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

==streak proposal==
Hi, I am proposing to setup [[:w:streak]] goals over a 12 week period: for example, 

* &quot;write one story each two weeks, and [[:wikt:babysit|babysit]] it until it is published&quot;

This could be either authoring a completely new article or this could be taking over someone else's article and doing focused editing on it with active collaboration with others until it is published. It is like a [[:wikt:day shift|day shift]] as you are expected to remain available '[[:wikt:on call|on call]]' to address concerns from another user or reviewer.

The aim of this is to build a habit of participation with [[:wikt:outburst|outburst]]s of eyeballing the page to collaborate with others -- but not every day, to have breaks and reduce [[:wikt:burnout|burnout]]. Could you please check out at '''[[Wikinews:Water_cooler/proposals#Streak_themed_competition_proposal|this section]]''' and let me know what you think? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 03:16, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
:Thank you for signing up. You haven't included a role: author or collaborator or reviewer. What would you like to do? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 02:04, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Gryllida}} I think I would like to be an author. [[User:CheatCodes4ever|Cheat]][[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|Codes]][[Special:Contributions/CheatCodes4ever|4ever]] ([[User:CheatCodes4ever/sandbox|sandbox]] | [[m:Special:CentralAuth/CheatCodes4ever|CentralAuth]]) 00:01, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Updated, thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 00:31, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

== Trump article ==

I think if you can tighten up that 2nd paragraph, we might be golden.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 19:24, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

== Thank you ==

Hi [[User:CheatCodes4ever|CheatCodes4ever]]

I am writing to you because one of your articles is in the review queue.

I had decided not to review articles after mid-April due to possible required time and effort for migration. Link to the migration discussion &quot;[[meta:Migration of Wikinews and future hosts]]&quot;, and I would like to invite you to participate. For now there is one possible venue with joined Miraheze and Wikimedia NYC hosting but their communication appears to be happening off-wiki as far as I know and I do not know their possible result nor the timing of that discussion.

Regards, -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:04, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Published: [[United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz]] (April 15) ==
&lt;div style=&quot;border:2px solid #57DB1E;background:linear-gradient(135deg,#E6FFE6 0%,#F0FFF0 100%);padding:1em 1.5em;color:#1a1a1a;margin:1.5em;border-radius:4px;box-shadow:0 2px 8px rgba(87,219,30,0.15);&quot;&gt;

[[File:Artículo bueno.svg|50px|left|link=]]

&lt;div style=&quot;margin-left:64px;&quot;&gt;
&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:1.1em;font-weight:bold;color:#2d5016;&quot;&gt;
Hi CheatCodes4ever! Thank you for your submission!
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br/&gt;

Your article '''[[United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz]]''' has been reviewed by '''{{User|Michael.C.Wright}}''', and it has been accepted and published. '''Congratulations! 🎉'''

&lt;div style=&quot;margin-top:0.5em;&quot;&gt;
The reviewer's comments and decision are available on the [[Talk:United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz|article's talk page]].
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;margin-top:0.5em;&quot;&gt;
Excellent work, please keep it up! We hope you will continue contributing to Wikinews. If you have some time, consider taking a look at other articles currently [[:Category:Developing|under development]] or [[:Category:Review|awaiting review]]. Your help in improving or reviewing them would be greatly appreciated.
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;font-size:0.9em;color:#555;&quot;&gt;
----
This is an automated review notification. You can change your message preferences, including receiving notices only for articles you created or majorly contributed to, or disabling them entirely, at [[WN:EzPR 2025/NP|EzPR 2025/NP]].
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt; -- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:00, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s02z1c7nh6h4h10p5vgby72fs5w7rj4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>'Each makes the other more difficult to recover from': University of Sussex professor L. Alan Winters speaks to Wikinews on trade, COVID-19, Brexit</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>2923763</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008684</id>
      <parentid>4812099</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:29:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>New category. See [[Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum#Possible move]]</comment>
      <origin>5008684</origin>
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      <text bytes="39307" sha1="cjuz4r2vhswqfuno7msjd15bc4d5dak" xml:space="preserve">{{DISPLAYTITLE:'Each makes the other more difficult to recover from': University of Sussex professor L. Alan Winters speaks to &lt;em&gt;Wikinews&lt;/em&gt; on trade, COVID-19, Brexit}}
{{date|June 30, 2021}}
[[File:L. Alan Winters.jpg|thumb|L. Alan Winters, CB. {{image|University of Sussex}}]]
Earlier this month, ''Wikinews'' spoke with {{w|University of Sussex}} professor of economics {{w|L. Alan Winters}} regarding the decision of the [[United Kingdom]] to leave the [[European Union]] (EU) in the {{w|2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum|2016 Brexit referendum}} and the subsequent negotiations leading up to and following the {{w|EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement}} of December, which he has researched extensively.  In a call, a ''Wikinews'' correspondent spoke with Professor Winters about recent developments in UK trade policy to learn more about his observations.

Winters is professor of economics at the University of Sussex, as well as founding director and fellow of the UK Trade Policy Observatory (UKTPO).  His career spans over 15 years, including as chief economist at the {{w|Department for International Development}}, director of the Development Research Group of the [[World Bank]], CEO of the Migrating Out of Poverty Research Programme Consortium and advisor for the [[Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development]], the {{w|Commonwealth Secretariat}}, the [[European Commission]], the [[European Parliament]], the {{w|United Nations Conference on Trade and Development}}, the [[World Trade Organization]] and the {{w|Inter-American Development Bank}}.

Three reports where Winters is listed as an author were used as reference during the interview: &quot;[[COVID-19]] will reinforce the Brexit shock&quot;, &quot;The Costs of Brexit&quot; and &quot;Taking stock of the new UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement: governance, state subsidies and the level playing field&quot;. &lt;!--Capitalisation is accurate as page https://sro.sussex.ac.uk/id/eprint/96591/ can confirm; I did not want to source it as it has no relevance to the article's content--&gt;

Winters was awarded the title &quot;Companion of the Most Honourable {{w|Order of the Bath}}&quot;, styled C.B., on June 16, 2012 as part of the {{w|2012 Birthday Honours}}.

==Interview with L. Alan Winters==
[[File:L. Alan Winters.ogg|thumb|Interview with L. Alan Winters on June 3, 2021. {{image|J.J. Liu}}]]

{{WNI first question}} '''You're a member of the UK Trade Policy Observatory and wrote in December 2020's &quot;The Cost of Brexit&quot; the British exit from the European Union &quot;increases UK-EU costs, reduces trade between them, and requires resources for form-filling, queuing&quot; and that &quot;Brexit will be costly for UK society&quot; free trade agreement or not.  Do you think the government made a mistake when negotiating the Christmas agreement with the EU, or that Brexit was the mistake?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} Well I was certainly opposed to Brexit, and I continue to believe that it was a very poor piece of economic policy.  You have to concede that there's been a little bit of sovereignty that has been won back, but actually it's very difficult to exercise, and the government hasn't got too much idea, about how it wants to exercise its sovereignty.  So overall, I'm not very sympathetic over the Brexit decision but, you know, it's made, it's done.

Do I think there was a mistake with having agreed we're going to do Brexit?  Did we get the right sort of Brexit?  Well no, again, I think we would have been much better off economically with a tighter relationship with [[Europe]] that kept some of the trade costs lower, and therefore there would be less hits on the amount of trade that's going on.
&lt;!--2:13--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''Now, you've indicated in a May 2020 article that you also wrote on the Trade Policy Observatory web site that issues such as an interrupted UK-EU negotiations and an increase in {{w|United Kingdom national debt|government debt}} as a result of the pandemic would &quot;reinforce the Brexit shock&quot;.  Does this hold true a year on?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} I mean, we've negotiated our way to a trade agreement, which in May last year wasn't certain, by any means, so that's an issue that hasn't arisen, except that the hurry is one of the reasons it's not a very good trade agreement for us, I think.  The reinforcement of government debt: I think we don't know yet.  It's very difficult to sort out what's a Brexit shock and what's a COVID shock, but what certainly is the case is that the UK public finances will take a hit from Brexit, particularly given that it, I think without any doubt, activity in the financial services sector will go down, and they pay a very large amount of tax.

And so add to that that we've now sort of taken on potentially an extra three or four hundred billions worth of debt; and [it] is going to constrain economic policy.  So in that sense, the two issues reinforce each other.
&lt;!--4:00--&gt;
[[File:Coronavirus Covid-19 Lordship Lane, closed shops, Tottenham, London, England 2.jpg|thumb|An empty High Street and shuttered shops in {{w|Tottenham}}, [[London]], [[England]] on April 5, 2020. {{image|[[c:User:Acabashi|User:Acabashi]]}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''I believe you said [in the article] somewhat along the lines of that 'you may think that Brexit and COVID are separate, but in actuality they're very interchanged, or at least the effects of it are very interchanged.'  But from what you've said right now, how can you define between a Brexit shock and a COVID shock?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} Yeah, well, economists are working hard on this and, you know, we don't have enough data.  But, for instance, Brexit affects primarily UK trade with the European Union; it affects trade with other countries only through sort of second-order effects.  So if we see trade with the EU behaving differently from trade with the rest of the world, that suggests we are starting to identify a Brexit shock.

It's also the case that we have an idea of sectors that are going to be particularly affected by Brexit that wouldn't necessarily have been particularly affected by COVID.  For instance, some of the processed food trade, fishing, areas where regulations are important like some services where, for instance, the music industry.  You know, we think that COVID has had a temporary—well, clearly the COVID has had a temporary effect on travelling music concerts gigs, but Brexit looks set to have a permanent effect because it's changing the way in which these things can be organised.

So, we can't observe it at the moment, but two years from now, three years from now, we hope COVID will [be] behind us, and then sort of the difference between before and after 2019 [in] music, trade ought to be showing up as Brexit effects.  So we try to do it, or we plan to do it by finding dimensions where one or the other is very much bigger and you use that to identify the two.

I mean I think they are interactive.  I was trying to think what was this blog about, I think I remember now.  It was making the point the export markets don't just sort of come and go and it's easy to move in and out.  Once you've lost an export market, it tends to be rather long term.  And so, losing export markets because of COVID which, at least in May [2020], we wondered whether it was going to be worse in the UK than the EU; it hasn't turned out that way.  But losing export markets in COVID, then trying to recover them when trading conditions have got[ten] worse, in a sense makes that recovery a lot less likely.

So I think it's in the sense there's also this fact that they interact with the dynamics: that you lose an export market, that's costly, it's hard to win back, costly to win back.  We have got two potential hits on our export trade, and therefore, you know, each makes the other more difficult to recover from.
&lt;!--8:00--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''You have some that would say that trade with the EU would decline, but that the UK can make up for it with increased trade with the {{w|Commonwealth of Nations|Commonwealth}} or with the [[United States|US]], or, you know, this is an idea that some Brexiteers are in favour of: {{w|CANZUK}}, with [[Canada]], [[Australia]] and [[New Zealand]].  Do you think that is plausible?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} No, it's complete nonsense.  Make that slightly more polite, but no look, it's just not plausible.  The EU is half our trade, approximately half our trade, it's very close, it's very rich, it's very similar, we've spent forty years integrating our way into that market and prior to Brexit, we had very, very close alignment with standards in goods and fairly close alignment in standards with services.  These other markets are a lot further away, we know there is economic research now that suggests that the benefitd of signing trade agreements are weaker, the further away is the partner.

So, even if we could sign the same sort of agreement with Australia and New Zealand as we had with the EU, it is likely to have a weaker effect.  And the point is, these other free trade agreements are nothing like as deep.  They still require a lot of customs formalities, there will be standards issues that arise, there will be regulations like {{w|Validation of foreign studies and degrees|recognition of qualifications}}, and you can sort of agree you'll recognise Australian dentists, but all the rest of the professions, you know, still don't get that sort of recognition.

So frankly, it's just a myth.  I think I would by all means use that: it's just not gonna happen.
&lt;!--10:00--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''A big sticking point in the Brexit negotiations, and I would say they're still pretty debated today, is fishing, and the UK being able to determine its own {{w|Individual fishing quotas|fishing quotas}}, fish stocks, control of the fish in its own borders.  Even though it's lower than Brexiteers may have wanted, the December agreement still means the UK will get 25% of EU fishing rights in its waters between now and 2026 but would still be, in some ways, bound to the EU's rules.  What are your thoughts?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} The EU rules get into the story in two different ways.  You're exactly right that there has been a small amount of quota transfer.  It's quite a complicated process, and I'm not an expert—we did produce a blog or a briefing paper perhaps in the UKTPO on fishing, I don't know, six months ago &amp;mdash; no, maybe less than that &amp;mdash; where a fishing expert helped us go through the numbers.  You know, some of the catch quotas weren't binding, some of them spill over—there's a lot of swapping of quotas.  So, once you look at it, it wasn't that 25% of the EU quota will be caught by UK fishermen.

But the way that the EU rules get into this is in two ways: one is we have agreed that we will manage fisheries with a degree of co-operation and scientific co-operation with the Europeans so that we do agree, between us, what the maximum sustainable take is, so that that's a scientific decision in principle.  And so in a sense, the EU view of what is sustainable, it does feed into this.

The second issue is that, perversely, it might seem, most of the fish that the UK fishing industry catches is sold in Europe, and it can only be sold subject to EU regulations, EU standards.  And because we haven't got any agreement on those, we are discovering that these things are very costly to prove that you've got, you know, you have to have a vet sign off on every consignment and that sort of thing.  And so, it's not that, in a sense, Britain is obliged to stick to the EU regulations for its own fish consumed in the UK.  The problem is that we now have to prove as a third country, an external member, a non-member of the EU, that our fish meet their standards.

There's been one change I gather that's been fairly unsympathetic of: shellfish, but, you know, the EU has sovereignty as well.  So, it's in those ways that EU rules get into it and, you know, we have a bit extra quota, but essentially the way the trade agreement works is if we get difficult over the quota, we'll end up not selling any fish.  It's a long bit of the treaty, you know, about who can hit whom, and how it all has to go on, so it was immensely sensitive.  They've spent so much effort on this, for a sector that is tiny, tiny, it's the tiniest bit of the economy, but there we are, that's where we're at.
&lt;!--13:51--&gt;
[[File:Official portrait of Elizabeth Truss crop 2.jpg|thumb|Cropped official portrait of Elizabeth (Liz) Truss taken June 2017. {{image|Chris McAndrew}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''I want to ask you now about the {{w|Trade Act 2021|Trade Act}} which was given {{w|royal assent}} on 29th of April and puts updated trade deals worth {{money/ISO 4217|GBP}}218 billion on the statute books.  Trade Secretary {{w|Liz Truss}} called the &quot;newfound sovereignty&quot; in a press release enough to &quot;propel a jobs-led, exports-led and investment-led recovery from COVID-19 and bring prosperity to all parts of our United Kingdom.&quot;  Now of course, some of the trade agreements were entirely new, a lot of them were also simply rehashed versions of already-agreed upon ones when the UK was under the EU.  So what are your thoughts on that?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} There's a very unfortunate way of expressing it.  First, the 218 billion is the amount of trade that is affected.  It's not the value of the income that is generated, it's the amount of trade.  Secondly, that 218 billion is all from agreements that were rolled over from the EU.  These agreements were rolled over to the maximum extent possible—they're not quite as good as we had in the EU, but they're nearly—and the UK government was very clear it wouldn't give any more, it wouldn't ask any more, it just wanted to roll them over.  So all that's happened is that trade agreements that were originally created and, sort of, justified through the EU legal system, you know, are now justified through the UK legal system.

One {{w|UK-Japan Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement|agreement}} with [[Japan]] was billed as being a new agreement but in fact, de facto, it was basically a rollover.  And we're now looking at Australia as the first genuinely new agreement.  The {{w|Australia-United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement|Australia deal}} is predicted to increase UK {{w|Gross domestic product|GDP}} [gross domestic product] by between one and two ten-thousandths of UK gross domestic product.  Its, you know, its worth in terms of new income is very, very small.

So, this is a real bit of, that's an unfortunate bit of statistics, I mean, it just ''is'' not a fair representation of what was going on.
&lt;!--16:35--&gt;

[[File:Ursula von der Leyen (49468709252) (cropped).jpg|thumb|left|Cropped portrait of Ursula von der Leyen taken January 31, 2020. {{image|Unión Europea en Perú}}]]
[[File:Theresa May official portrait (cropped).jpg|thumb|Cropped portrait of Theresa May taken August 1, 2016. {{image|Controller of Her Majesty's Stationery Office}}]]
[[File:Boris Johnson official portrait (cropped 3).jpg|thumb|left|Cropped portrait of Boris Johnson taken August 14, 2019. {{image|Ben Shread}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''Post-Brexit checks on goods heading to and from [[Northern Ireland]] and the rest of the UK angered many {{w|Unionism in Ireland|Unionists}} and {{w|Ulster loyalism|Loyalists}} who claim the {{w|Northern Ireland Protocol}} is a {{w|Irish Sea border|border down the Irish Sea}}.  However, {{w|Ursula von der Leyen}} said the 25th of May the complications were caused not by the Protocol, but by Brexit.  What do you think?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} Well, it's a bit of both, in a sense.  You know, if we hadn't had Brexit, we wouldn't have had the Protocol, so in that sense von der Leyen is exactly right: this is all the result of Brexit.  But, there were different ways of doing Brexit, and the position that [[Theresa May]] had eventually, I suppose, worked out as being the best way, was to say that the whole of the United Kingdom would align pretty closely with the EU on many, many dimensions, and that that would have made continuing sort of free, I mean entirely free, bureaucratic-free trade between Great Britain and [[Northern Ireland]], or between Northern Ireland and the [[Republic of Ireland]] perfectly straightforward. It wouldn't have changed the ''status quo.

So, it wouldn't have happened without Brexit, that is correct, but it also wouldn't have happened if we had had a different Brexit agreement.  The Protocol arose essentially because Mr [Boris] [[Boris Johnson|Johnson]] suddenly decided that he could live with it.  It was something he had rejected while he was in government with Mrs May, and Mrs May had said no British government could accept [this], so it's absolutely not the case that it is just the fault of the Protocol, and even if it were the question is: &quot;where did that Protocol come from?&quot;  And it came from a particular conception of Brexit which was one of very very arm's length, very little integration.
&lt;!--18:46--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''COVID-19 has restricted the opportunity and the willingness to spend, leading some economists to predict a post-lockdown surge in {{w|consumer spending}}, not just in the UK but across the world.  What impact do you think this will have on UK imports from other countries, and do you think it will impact any trade talks that would go on during this time?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} I mean I think we don't know yet how COVID is going to turn out, but we know that a pretty close connection between the country's income and the amount that it imports.  So, for any country in the world, you cut income, you cut imports.  If COVID, you know, while we are recovering from COVID, imports are going to be mostly is going to be somewhat lower.  If we don't ever catch up, as it were, to where we would have been without COVID, imports won't catch up either.

I think its impact on trade talks is a second-order thing.  I mean, you know, if you import a bit less, there might be a little bit less interest in having a trade agreement, it might just be the thing that stops you from signing one, but it's all so small that I certainly couldn't make any prediction in that dimension; I don't think that really anybody else could.  But, you know, trade is affected by income, we know that, that's clear.
&lt;!--20:19--&gt;
[[File:The Lord Frost (cropped).jpg|thumb|Cropped portrait of David Frost, the Lord Frost taken May 2021. {{image|UK Government}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''The country's Brexit minister {{w|David Frost, Baron Frost|Lord Frost}} said 12th of March that &quot;[f]reight volumes between the UK and the EU have been back to their normal levels&quot; since the beginning of February and that recent drops in UK-EU trade were made &quot;inevitable&quot; because of the &quot;unique&quot; circumstances of pre-Christmas stockpiling and lockdowns across Europe.  What are your thoughts?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} We're waiting for the data.  The UKTPO published a paper last week, possibly ten days ago, looking at [the] first three months' trade data, and in most cases it turned out that trade had not recovered to, sort of, pre-2020 levels after the end of the transition period.  The drop was not as large as it looked like in January, and it is certainly true that because of stockpiling prior to the end of the transition period January and February always were going to have very low trade volumes.

So, I think I don't agree with Frost that things have got back to normal, and in particular this statement on March the 12th I believe is about, actually, the volume of ''movements'', not the value of trade.  When you talk to the logistics companies, they say &quot;yeah, but, you know, half of those containers are empty!&quot;  One of the disruptive things over the last three months is lining up containers on both directions, and that is one of the things that Brexit has done.  When we were members of the EU, a British lorry could take exports out to, say, [[Italy]], it could call in [[France]], it could call in [[Germany]] and call in [[Belgium]] to pick up stuff to bring back, cross back.  Now it's no longer able to: it picks up to bring EU goods into the UK, they only can pick up in one place; on the way out, it can only deliver [to] two places.

So, there's as much shipping—you have to ship these things around, but they're not generating the same value of trade as previously.  So the value numbers are fairly clearly down, yet, we just don't know.  We think, my prediction is, trade is going to be lower.  But, we don't yet have the absolutely firm evidence that that is the case.
&lt;!--23:17--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''The UK started talks yesterday with members of the {{w|Trans-Pacific Partnership}} (CPTPP).  The Trade Secretary on [30] January, which is when the UK first applied to join, said that in joining the agreement it would &quot;create enormous opportunities for UK businesses that simply weren’t there as part of the EU&quot;.  What impacts on trade do you foresee if the UK actually does join the CPTPP?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} There will be some impact, there's no doubt, but we, in general, we don't think there'll be a huge impact, and so in a sense it all hangs around how enormous is 'enormous'.  Why don't we think there will be enormous impacts on trade?

Well one, these countries are a long way away!  And so, trade is costly, it's difficult to co-ordinate, it's expensive to carry out.

Secondly, of the members of the CPTPP, we already have trade agreements, I think, with seven of them.  We are busily negotiating a trade agreement with Australia and New Zealand, so that's another two that would be taken care of, you know.  The number of areas where CPTPP opens up trade is really rather small.  [[Malaysia]] is a country we would get, you know, some tariff concessions from, and offer tariff concessions to, which we don't have any other way.

The CPTPP also liberalises 95% of tariff lines in the goods classification that we use for international trade: about twelve thousand, fifteen thousand entries; CPTPP aims to have zero tariffs and 95% of them−I think UK-Japan has got zero tariffs, eventually [they're] going to have them on 99.7%; with Europe it's a 100%, and so on.  So, CPTPP doesn't ''really'' add much liberalisation in goods.  It will affect trade, probably digital trade, digital rules will be a bit different, it will have a bit of an effect, probably, on {{w|intellectual property}} issues, pharmaceuticals, just slightly different regulations.

So it will have some effect, but we, frankly, wouldn't have expected it to be enormous.  Yeah, it's what Ms Truss has to say, but, yeah, frankly it's sort of, it's not, in any standard usage of the word, it would not be 'enormous'.
&lt;!--26:16--&gt;
[[File:Boris Johnson and Yoshihide Suga at the meeting of G-7 Carbis Bay Summit.jpg|thumb|UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson (right) with Japanese Prime Minister {{w|Yoshihide Suga}} at the G7 on June 11, 2021. {{image|Prime Minister's Office}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''{{w|Carbis Bay}}, [[Cornwall]] will host {{w|47th G7 summit|this year's G7}} in a week's time.  What do you think the Prime Minister needs to bring up as it relates to trade opportunities?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} Well, I think the important thing for the G7 is actually for the Prime Minister not to focus on British trade at all, but to focus on trying to repair the multilateral trading system.

A couple of things that would be important here: one is to try and make the Americans think more favourably about restoring the health of the {{w|Dispute settlement in the World Trade Organization|dispute settlement}} process within the [[World Trade Organization]].  They refused the reappointment of the judges who run the {{w|Appellate Body|appellate system}} in the [[World Trade Organization]] &amp;mdash; the WTO &amp;mdash;, and so that whole system has just ground to a halt.  I think it would be very constructive if we could get a G7 agreement that, no no, we now intend and we can see how, we're going to repair that.

The second is that one ought to be able to think about advancing the way to do so-called 'plurilateral agreements' within the WTO.  The WTO, by convention, works by consensus: everybody has to agree, or, at least, not oppose.  And that may have made it impossible to change the rules in the WTO for 27 years, since 1994.  That's an exaggeration: it's made it impossible to do significant changes.  And the reason, often, is there's only a small number of countries, a small number of interests who don't want to do particular things.

Making it easier for subsets of countries to agree to improve trading conditions would be a big step forward−you can still have a system whereby either they agree they're going to change their trading conditions, improve conditions for imports into their country, and apply it to everybody, even those people who haven't agreed to make those changes, and that just seems like a straightforward game.  But even getting that through the WTO has proved very difficult.

And secondly, we have a few, small number of trade agreements that apply only between a few members of the WTO: less than the whole of the membership of the WTO.  And they can ''only'' be instituted and introduced into the WTO if everybody agrees, even those people who are outside, and that just hasn't happened.

So, allowing smaller−but still quite large−I mean, 60, 70, 80 members to go ahead and make agreements among themselves to change their conditions of trade would start to ease up the log-jam that we have in the world['s] trading system, and that would help bring it into line.  Yeah, we really don't have agreements about {{w|e-commerce}}, we don't have very much agreement on services, and all the things that are the dynamic elements of international trade that sort of lie outside WTO's effective range, because there are a few countries that resisted; we can't bring them in.

And so, one wants to sort of set up a system that is largely a political system that makes it possible for those countries to say: &quot;we're not very interested, but as long as it doesn't hurt us, we don't mind if you go ahead with it.&quot;  And at the moment, they don't have incentives, they don't have trust enough to do it.

So, the other thing I would do would do is have G7 work, in a very focused way, on how you can reassure people, members of the member countries in the WTO, that other subsets of countries can do things which don't harm them, and therefore they ought to let it go ahead, rather than block it.  So those are the two things I would put on Johnson's agenda. &lt;!--31:12--&gt;
[[File:Family photo of G7 leaders and the invited guests at Carbis Bay (1).jpg|thumb|G7 leaders and guests on June 13, 2021, which includes the South Korean and South African presidents and the Prime Minister of Australia; Prime Minister of India [[Narendra Modi]] did not attend in-person. {{image|首相官邸ホームページ}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''This meeting will be with quite a lot of large countries, and the Prime Minister has invited [[India]] and Australia [to attend], countries which he is making an active effort to make agreements with, for the UK to have greater relations with them.  Would you believe, in any way, a part of recovery from COVID-19 could be reached next week that would involve the countries in the G7?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} You know, the COVID recovery is not an area which I feel I have great expertise in.  There are certainly things that can be done to ease recovery, one of which would be agreements on providing [COVID-19] vaccines for the whole of the world rather than just the rich countries; agreements on trading vaccines or components of vaccines or other medical equipment without restrictions, and if G7, or G7 plus India, Australia and [[South Korea]] decided to agree to go down those routes, they would certainly help a bit.

I confess I don't have much of a feel for what the politics would be, and whether that's very likely.

What you say about the three extra members is this is not, as you say, as you hinted, sort of a self-interested group of the next three democracies: they're three democracies Britain is trying hard to court!  Now, I'm all in favour of co-operation, and I think for world trade purposes, certainly getting the Indians to feel more comfortable with the multilateral trading system would be quite a leap forward.

I'm not very happy if this is an attempt to further encircle [[China]].  I'm concerned about Chinese-versus-West tensions, and while I think it's perfectly legitimate for China and the democracies to say &quot;no no, we believe in different things&quot;, at the moment it seems to me, rather, ramped up, and it would, in the slightly longer run, we need to be aiming to make it more co-operative, and less confrontational.  And, the Democracies Club, is presented sometimes in a somewhat anti-China light, and I think that would be an unfortunate way of starting it off.  There are useful things that the democracies can do together, quite irrespective of their policies with China, and if they certainly do need to think about how [the] West and China get on, but it's not clear to me that this is necessary the best modality.

We have to wait and see.  I mean, in a sense for China, the really critical thing is where's India going to come out in this, I think, and it's difficult to know.  The Indians do not always like international groups and international laws.  So, I think we have to wait and see how it works out.
&lt;!--35:38--&gt;
[[File:President Trump at the Signing Ceremony for the USMCA (49461675592).jpg|thumb|Donald Trump signs the {{w|United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement}}, the successor to NAFTA, on January 29, 2020. {{image|The White House}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''Do you believe that there is any 'perfect' trade relationship in the world between two countries or organisations that the UK could look to for guidance?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} On the whole, I think that trade relations should be very close.  I think we're all beneficiaries of, essentially, removing barriers to international commerce, so that they are very low.  And we have to recognise that if that harms people, we have to support them: we need systems that allow one to adjust to foreign shocks.

But what are the ideal relationships in my mind?  You sent me the question, I thought about it, and I suddenly realised: every relationship that I can think of that is deep and is a model, is essentially between neighbouring countries.  So, the real message is, just be more sensible about Europe!  But, you know, France and Germany [have] a very strong relationship; Australia and New Zealand, pretty good relationship; {{w|North American Free Trade Agreement|NAFTA}} [North American Free Trade Agreement]: [Donald] [[Donald Trump|Trump]] rather disturbed it, but, frankly, NAFTA has had a big effect in [[North America]].

Neighbours, and co-operation.
&lt;!--37:06--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''Do you think the UK should work harder to align itself more with the World Trade Organization?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} The UK is moderately-well-aligned with the World Trade Organization.  There was a view, a few years ago, that Britain suddenly having an independent voice in the World Trade Organization would suddenly dynamise the organisation and solve all its problems: it was just immense {{wikt|hubris|anchor=Noun}}.  That has clearly not come to pass, as, frankly, the whole international trade profession predicted it doesn't work like that.

And so Britain ought, as a middle-sized country with a long tradition of openness, [to] have [an] extremely important role to play in the WTO.  It's a role of leadership and leadership by example, but it's a quiet and self-effacing role, and that's not something that Brits, yet, have got their heads around.  The {{w|Harvard Kennedy School|Kennedy School}} in {{w|Harvard University}} produced a series about Britain after Brexit, and the most recent one, you know, essentially said, you know: &quot;what now?&quot;  And the biggest single theme out of that was humility.  The Brits have got to get their head around, they cannot just boss people around!

And if you look–I'm going around to one of your previous questions–if you look at the comments about accession to the CPTPP, you very often hear to say: &quot;oh no, we need to be in that group so we can influence it&quot;, and 'influence' is a polite word for 'date'.  This idea that Britain is going to lead the CPTPP is, my view: embarrassing.  And it's not the way that you achieve influence, at least in world trade.  I can't comment on other aspects of foreign policy, but in world trade, in a sense, showing off and squaring your shoulders: it doesn't work.

The people who are good at managing world trade organisations are the countries that are naturally, or perhaps have learned, to be much quieter, much more subtle than the Brits are at the moment.  You think about Canadians, or think perhaps about the Japanese.  So, you know, I think we ought to align with the WTO, but we should do it, as it were, quietly and co-operatively rather than pushing our way to the front and saying &quot;we're the leaders, follow us!&quot;  They won't, that's the truth: they're just not going to!
&lt;!--40:15--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''Is there anything else you'd like to say about Brexit and UK trade, more broadly?'''

{{WNIR|L. Alan Winters}} I suppose only that, you know, most trade policy is a, sort of a quiet business, it's plodding away, it's sorting out little difficulties.  It's not grand, it's not photo opportunities.  And this focus that, in a sense, signing these trade agreements is 90% of what trade policy is, in the end, is not very helpful.  Real trade agreements take a long time to negotiate, even longer to implement and ''even'' larger to, sort of, enlarge and deepen.  And so, we ought to have, you know, in a sense acquire a more thoughtful, more analytical view of trade policy.

We also need to work out in Britain what we think about lots of other things, and then make trade policy commensurate with it.  You know, I wrote a letter to ''[[The Times (UK)|The Times]]'' a couple of weeks ago–less than a couple weeks ago, I think, when I said: &quot;look, you know, it's fine the government says 'oh, it signs this deal with Japan, with the most advanced digital trade chapter, you know, known in European or in UK trading history', but the trouble is there's been no debate within Britain at all about what sort of digital policies we want&quot;.  Trade policy in Britain is almost unconstrained: the executive has almost no constraints on doing what it wants with trade policy.

And I am concerned that they are trying to use trade policy, as it were, to influence other areas of policy that actually ought to be subject to real, internal debate, and internal agreement, and then use the trade policy to reinforce, you know, back it up when it comes to dealing with other countries. So, I think it needs to be sort of longer-sighted, and it needs to be put into a larger context, and neither of these generate headlines and photo opportunities like signing free trade agreements, even rather small ones.

So, I mean, I guess that's sort of my overview of where we are with UK trade policy.
&lt;!--43:00--&gt;
{{haveyoursay}}

== Related news==

*{{wikinews|UK Parliament begins debate on Brexit deal|December 6, 2018}}
*{{wikinews|Britain votes to leave the European Union|June 25, 2016}}
*{{wikinews|IMF says UK leaving the EU will lead to negative economic consequences|May 13, 2016}}

== Sister links ==
{{sisters|w|Brexit and the Irish border|Post-Brexit United Kingdom relations with the European Union|Economic effects of Brexit|D-10 Strategy Forum}}

== Sources ==
{{interview|media=audio}}
*{{source
|url    = https://profiles.sussex.ac.uk/p97501-l-alan-winters/about
|title  = Prof L. Alan Winters
|author = 
|pub    = University of Sussex
|date   = June 4, 2021 (date of access)
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.thejournal.ie/protocol-not-to-blame-brexit-tensions-northern-ireland-5447197-May2021/
|title  = Von der Leyen says Northern Ireland trade problems are caused by Brexit, not the Protocol
|author = PA Media
|pub    = TheJournal.ie
|date   = May 25, 2021
}}
*{{source
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|title  = Post-Brexit: UK Trade in Goods
|author = Yohannes Ayele, Guillermo Larbalestier, Nicolò Tamberi
|pub    = UK Trade Policy Observatory
|date   = May 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.gov.uk/government/news/historic-trade-act-becomes-law
|title  = Historic Trade Act becomes law
|author = Department for International Trade, Elizabeth Truss
|pub    = GOV.UK
|date   = April 29, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2021/03/23/a-fine-kettle-of-fish/
|title  = A Fine Kettle of Fish
|author = Michael Gasiorek, Suzannah Walmsley
|pub    = UK Trade Policy Observatory
|date   = March 23, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-david-frost-exports-b1816398.html
|title  = Trade experts ridicule David Frost for denying his Brexit deal is responsible for exports crash
|author = Rob Merrick
|pub    = The Independent
|date   = March 12, 2021
}}
*{{source
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|title  = Finding 'Global Britain': political slogan to hard economic policy choices
|author = Ed Balls, Nyasha Weinberg, Jessica Redmond, Sechi Kailasa, Tommaso Cariati
|pub    = Harvard Kennedy School
|date   = February 2021
|medium = PDF
}}
*{{source
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|title  = UK applies to join huge Pacific free trade area CPTPP
|author =
|pub    = GOV.UK
|date   = January 30, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.bbc.com/news/46401558
|title  = Brexit trade deal: What does it mean for fishing?
|author = Chris Morris, Oliver Barnes
|pub    = BBC News Online
|date   = January 20, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/publications/the-cost-of-brexit/
|title  = The Costs of Brexit
|author = Ilara Fusacchia, Luca Salvatici, L. Alan Winters
|pub    = UK Trade Policy Observatory
|date   = December 2020
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*{{source
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|title  = COVID-19 will reinforce the Brexit shock
|author = L. Alan Winters, Mattia Di Ubaldo, Palitha Konara
|pub    = UK Trade Policy Observatory
|date   = May 27, 2020
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|title  = The London Gazette
|author = 
|pub    = The London Gazette
|date   = June 16, 2012
}}
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    <title>Technological University Dublin senior lecturer Dr Lorcan Sirr speaks to Wikinews on housing market in Ireland</title>
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      <text bytes="44234" sha1="mx1pjhlc32j9zo5ljlaveoe74j6nedp" xml:space="preserve">{{DISPLAYTITLE:Technological University Dublin senior lecturer Dr Lorcan Sirr speaks to &lt;em&gt;Wikinews&lt;/em&gt; on housing market in Ireland}}

{{date|July 21, 2021}}

[[File:Dr Lorcan Sirr.png|thumb|Dr Lorcan Sirr. {{image|J.J. Liu}}]]
''Wikinews'' correspondent J.J. Liu spoke with {{w|Technological University Dublin}} (TUD) senior lecturer at the School of Surveying &amp; Construction Management, Dr Lorcan Sirr on Friday regarding the supply of housing in the [[Republic of Ireland]] and relevant parallels across the rest of [[Europe]], as well as recent developments by the government and private sector that are causing a rise in rents and home prices in the Irish {{w|real estate}} market.

Dr Sirr is a regular contributor to ''{{w|The Irish Times}}'' and has provided commentary to Irish radio station {{w|Newstalk}}, national broadcaster {{w|Raidió Teilifís Éireann}} (RTÉ) and various other publications.  In addition to being a chartered planning and development surveyor and assessor to the Society of Chartered Surveyors, Dr Sirr is a {{w|Peace Commissioner}} and former external examiner for the {{w|Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology}}, according to his profile on {{w|Worky}}.

Dr Sirr was a lecturer and former head of research for the Faculty of the Built Environment at the {{w|Dublin Institute of Technology}}, which entered a merger with two partner institutes to become TUD January 1, 2019.  He received his {{w|bachelor's degree}} in estate management at the {{w|University of Greenwich}}, [[United Kingdom]], and {{w|master's degree}} in urban design and {{w|Doctor of Philosophy|PhD}} in town planning at the {{w|University of Manchester}}.  He has a second master's in literature from [[KU Leuven]], [[Belgium]], and speaks {{w|French language|French}}.

==Interview with Lorcan Sirr==
[[File:Lorcan Sirr.ogg|thumb|Interview with Dr Lorcan Sirr on July 16, 2021. {{image|[[User:JJLiu112|J.J. Liu]]}}]]

{{WNI first question}} '''By most measures, Ireland is a far wealthier country than it was decades ago, yet the cost of rent and owning one's own home has been steadily on the rise.  A Q1 Daft.ie price report found the average monthly rent in Ireland is up to [[EUR]]1443.  Broadly speaking, to what do you attribute this to?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} One of the main reasons for rents rising significantly over the last decade has been the increased use of the rental sector for {{w|Public housing|social housing}}.  So, social housing is typically housing that's provided by the state for people that can't afford their own housing.  And traditionally what has happened is that the state builds houses for people who need housing.  And increasingly, they've not been doing that, but instead they've been placing families who need housing into the rental sector.

So, what they're doing there is, they're putting a lot more demand into the rental sector, constraining supply, and then rents are going up.  So, if we got rid of the government's practice of using the private rental sector for state housing or for social housing, you would find that there's a lot more supply available, and that is a huge driver of rents.

The other driver of rents, of course, has been that, about four years ago, the government introduced a new system whereby rents could be increased annually up to a maximum of 4%, but of course when you introduce a maximum, the maximum quickly becomes the target.  So, every landlord just increase[s] their rent by 4% every year.  So over a number of years 4% on 4% on 4% on 4% adds up to significant rental increases.

&lt;!-- 01:55 --&gt;
{{WNIQ}} '''Now, you're saying, 'the 4% the 4% the 4%', I know the [government] opposition, {{w|Social Democrats (Ireland)|Social Democrats}} and {{w|Sinn Féin}}, even before the &amp;#91;[[COVID-19]]] pandemic, they've been advocating for a temporary, I believe, ban on rent increases, or just a rent-freeze overall.  Do you think that would help the situation?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} It depends on what you mean by 'the situation'.  It would help tenants, without a doubt, it would help tenants ''{{wikt|in situ|anchor=Adjective}}'', because suddenly they'd have a rent-freeze and their rents would be stuck where they are.

Whether it would benefit the sector overall is a different thing—whether it's constitutional is a third thing—but, so, it would benefit tenants.  Would it benefit the system overall?  If landlords aren't able to make a return on their rents, there is an increased chance that the landlords will leave the sector.  Now, the house is still there, but the house will go for home ownership or for something else.  So, you know, at a more {{w|macroeconomics|macro}}[economic]-level, maybe that wouldn't be the best thing to happen.
&lt;!-- 02:53 --&gt;

And the third issue is that constitutionally there has been a court case in 1982, Blake [v.] the {{w|Attorney General of Ireland|Attorney General}}, which said that rent-freezes, ''per se'', are unconstitutional.  So, you're beginning to trickle in legal ground by doing something like that.  Having said that, what they've brought in—it happened today, actually; [it] comes into effect today—is rents are now linked to the {{w|Harmonised Index of Consumer Prices|European harmonised price}}; basically {{w|inflation}}.  And that happens, today.
&lt;!-- 03:25 --&gt;
[[File:SIEOct07.jpg|thumb|Construction in {{w|Sandyford}}, [[Dublin]] on October 20, 2007. {{image|[[c:User:Sarah777|User:Sarah777]]}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''Daft.ie relates the COVID-19 pandemic to the situational cession of construction activity and the second-hand market.  Do you expect these variables to change in the coming weeks and months?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Funnily enough, last year, you know, we had built 21 thousand houses in 2019, and we kind of thought that last year, because of COVID[-19], we might get 12 or 13 thousand houses: these are really small numbers, like.  But we got 20 thousand houses, I think 20 thousand houses in the last year, which was really surprising, it was nearly the same as the year before.  So, COVID[-19] didn't really stop that much housebuilding activity.  It didn't really have the change, the impact that we thought it was going to have.
&lt;!-- 04:10 --&gt;

Yeah, the construction industry are quite [fortunate] that construction sites [are] open-air, should be allowed to be open and remain open, and they kind of won their case a lot of the time.  But, the other thing is like, do we expect these variables to change in the next months?  I don't think we'll ever see.  You have a lot of people out there who say we need 33 thousand houses a year, 48 thousand houses a year, whatever, all that numbers.
&lt;!-- 04:33 --&gt;

The market isn't going to supply more houses than it can sell, and over the last four or five years it has been selling the same number of houses every year: about seven or eight thousand houses.  Out of the 20 thousand houses, only about seven or eight thousand come on the market for sale for ordinary people.  And that's about right, that's about the level where prices are stabilising, at seven or eight [thousand].  If they build any more houses, sales prices will fall because they've increased the supply.  And so, I think builders are quite clever and that, no matter what happens with COVID[-19], right, I still think we're only going to churn out 20, 22, 24 thousand houses every year.  Because if they churn out any more than that, they're going to oversupply the market &amp;mdash; and negatively impact the sales price.  So they're very clever about maintaining, drip-feeding the market like that.
&lt;!-- 05:19 --&gt;
[[File:Houses in Tyrrellspass - geograph.org.uk - 167115.jpg|thumb|Three homes in {{w|Tyrrellspass}}, {{w|County Westmeath}}, part of the Midlands Region on May 4, 2006. {{image|Brian Shaw}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''Speaking of the prices, residential property prices rose by 4.5% the year to April, in a range from 0.5% in apartments in [[Dublin]] to 8.5% in houses on the border with the North [of Ireland; [[Northern Ireland]]], according to the {{w|Central Statistics Office (Ireland)|Central Statistics Office}}.  Do you expect this to change as post-pandemic consumer price inflation—European harmonised inflation—eases more broadly?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Well, you've got to remember the places like {{w|Border Region|the Border}}, {{w|Midlands Region, Ireland|Midlands}} and {{w|West Region, Ireland|western region}} that you're referring to now with the 8.5%, they are starting from a really low base.  So 8.5% is coming from something very low, so it's 8.5% of something low anyway, so [in] those areas, 8.5% doesn't scare me at all.  It's more in the large cities, or, we don't really have large cities, but in the cities, our price rise is moderating.
&lt;!-- 06:18 --&gt;

And the interesting thing that's driving the sales prices outside Dublin is COVID[-19], and the idea that a lot of people have decided that, &quot;instead of living in a city, and now that we can {{w|Telecommuting|work from home}}, I'm going to move back to [the] Border, Midlands, wherever I'm from originally where I can buy or get free land and buy a big house that I could never buy or build in Dublin, blah blah blah, and do that&quot;.  And that's driving prices, with the people moving to other areas.

&lt;!-- 06:49 --&gt;
How long that will last is the other question.  I don't know: I think a lot of employers will want a return at some stage, but I think we haven't fully thought out this idea [of] working from home, I think we're only [in the] very early stages of it.  So I'm not sure of those price rises will sustain themselves over the next few years.  I think there could be a moment of excitement at the moment, where people are going: &quot;oh great, I can get out of the city, I can buy a cheaper house back in the countryside, and I'll do that&quot;, but, you know, pretty soon I think people will realise they want to be back in the city, or the excitement will wear off of that, and only a certain number of people do that, and the rest of the people stay in the cities.

&lt;!-- 07:29 --&gt;
{{WNIQ}} '''What are your thoughts on the government's ''Rebuild[ing] Ireland'' initiative?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} ''Rebuilding Ireland'' was the government policy from 2016 until this year, actually, last month.  So it's finished now, it failed.  It had five main pillars, like reusing stock, ending homelessness, all that stuff.  It failed on all the pillars.  It didn't hit any of its targets, and one of the problems with it was that it was very simplistic in many ways, and very much driven by quantity over quality.  So, it was all about numerical targets, and it didn't matter if the houses that were built under these numerical targets were connected with public transport, they had local infrastructure, they had services ''et cetera'', ''et cetera''.  That didn't matter, that was secondary; the most important part was to get numbers of houses up, you know, get those numbers, hit those targets.

&lt;!-- 08:22 --&gt;
So, very simplistic.  We're [a] first-world country, we're quite a wealthy country.  We should be doing better planning than, you know, the target is 25 thousand houses a year, let's hit 25 thousand, and it doesn't matter if they're not serviced by public transport, it doesn't matter if they're not sustainable development, it doesn't matter if they're in areas where they're not needed.  You know, it was very much targets-driven, which is why it failed.

&lt;!-- 08:44 --&gt;
So, it failed on all their targets.  So, you know, you need it better.  We have a national planning policy that's telling us to do one thing in a kind of more correct, best-practice way, and then you have a ''Rebuilding Ireland'' housing strategy that's telling us to throw up houses everywhere as quickly as we can, and the two things do not compute, they're not compatible, you know.  So we ended up with this mess, you know, as always.

&lt;!-- 09:11 --&gt;
{{WNIQ}} '''So you're saying that the numerical strategy is not the best approach.  I don't know if you've had the chance to read this, but [on] 14 July the government published its Summer Economic Statement and it's included a promise for a Housing for All strategy that's &quot;designed to boost housing outputs&quot;.  So, what do you think is most crucial in pursuing that aim, if not strictly numerical?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} There's no point in building houses if it means that people are living far away from employment, for example, because you're building houses, but yet you're creating other pressures on traffic and congestion and forced car ownership and a whole lot of other issues.  So, you know, it's not about the numbers, and in any event, one of the problems with these strategies is that it's one thing to have a numerical target if I have control over the numbers that are going to be delivered, because I am the state.

&lt;!-- 10:05 --&gt;
The problem with the Irish state is that it relies nearly entirely on the private market to deliver its housing output targets.  You can't control the free market, you know, the market will do what it wants to do, so even though we might need 30, 40, 50 thousand houses a year, if the market decides that 20 thousand houses is the optimal level, that's all they're gonna build.  And the state can't force them to build 40 thousand, so one of the problems with ''Rebuilding Ireland'' and having a targets-driven system is that targets are fine if you are in control of the delivery of the targets, but targets are pointless if you're relying on someone else to deliver those targets for you.  And that was where we went wrong with that.

&lt;!-- 10:43 --&gt;
So I think, with the new Housing for All strategy, I haven't seen it, and I know there's arguments in the government about how much money should be allocated towards it, but I mean really, if it's going to achieve what it wants to achieve, the state needs to take far more control over the delivery of housing.  Because if you don't have control over it, you lose control over quality, you lose control over costs, you lose control over timing, and by relying on the market, these are all lessons that we know from 20 years ago, but we're a bit dumb in that we don't, kind of, learn the lessons that we should be learning.

&lt;!-- 11:20 --&gt;
So we're back again relying on the market, and then, you know, you just lose control over everything.

&lt;!-- 11:29 --&gt;
{{WNIQ}} '''What would you recommend the government do then, for its Housing for All strategy?  It hasn't been published yet, but what would you personally think would be best, just in trying to solve [through] the strategy?''' 

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Yeah, I think we already have a lot of lands and we already have a lot of vacant housing in Ireland.  We have an incredibly high rate of vacant housing, and the government seems to be reluctant to tackle either land that we have &amp;mdash; a lot of land owned by the state itself, not even private land &amp;mdash; and the reuse of existing housing.  Like, we don't even tax people who leave properties empty, for example.  I could leave my house in Dublin for ten years and nobody would tax me, nobody would say anything to me.  And that's crazy, you know, when you have a housing shortage, like how could you let people leave their houses empty in a housing shortage?  But we do!  We can, in Ireland.  There's no way to, kind of, penalise people for doing that.

&lt;!-- 12:27 --&gt;
And we don't charge {{w|Local property tax (Ireland)|property tax}} really, we don't charge a meaningful property tax.  So we're very reluctant to interfere with people's ownership of property and people's usage of property.  So, we have land, and we have a lot of empty housing.  I think really what has been happening over the last ten years is an increased centralisation over the control of the delivery of housing, so in other words, taking away power from local government—we have very weak local government anyway, like councils and town councils—and bringing it back to a centralised government department.

&lt;!-- 12:53 --&gt;
Really, what needs to happen is responsibility for the delivery of housing needs to go back to a local level, and put responsibility on councillors and mayors and people like that to deliver housing, not having it done from a central office up in Dublin.

&lt;!-- 13:11 --&gt;
[[File:Darragh O'Brien.jpg|thumb|Portrait of Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage Darragh O'Brien, Fianna Fáil {{w|Teachta Dála}} (TD) for {{w|Dublin Fingal (Dáil constituency)|Dublin-Fingal}}, taken in 2016. {{image|Houses of the [[Oireachtas]]}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''What are your thoughts on the Affordable Housing Bill [2021], which was defended by the {{w|Fianna Fáil}} Minister [for] Housing[, Local Government and Heritage] {{w|Darragh O'Brien}} as &quot;empowering local authorities to deliver affordable homes [for] purchase on their own lands&quot;?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Yeah, it's kind of interesting because it's doing the opposite of what I was talking about, like.  So I'm, you know, saying &quot;give more power back to councils&quot;, and at the same time the Minister is taking power away from councils on the disposal of land.  He's, you know, forcing councils to give up good land they have zoned for housing to a centralised body, and really it's the opposite that needs to happen.

&lt;!-- 13:46 --&gt;
A lot of the affordable housing stuff still brings in the private sector.  And when you're bringing in the private sector you're bringing in profit, and the more you bring in, the less affordable the housing becomes, because the private sector has to make a profit, that's understandable.  Well, unless you're kind of willing to do it yourself, then you need to use the private sector and the affordability comes out the window.  So really, what the government's been urged to do by opposition and even by its own internal members is to borrow, at a time like now when money is quite cheap to borrow, to borrow more money and build housing ourselves, and forget the private sector.  Let the private sector look after the private sector, and let the state look after the state.

&lt;!-- 14:21 --&gt;
But we've mixed up the two for so many years now that we're finding it hard to disentangle ourselves from our reliance on the state.
&lt;!--14:31--&gt;

[[File:Eoin Ó Broin TD (46698081992).jpg|thumb|left|Spokesperson on housing for Sinn Féin Eoin Ó Brien, TD for {{w|Dublin Mid-West (Dáil constituency)|Dublin Mid-West}} being interviewed by RTÉ on January 15, 2018. {{image|Sinn Féin}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''The Residential Tenancies Act [2021] which, as you said, comes into effect today, it ensures that the rent pressure zones can increase with the consumer prices.  It has been challenged by the opposition obviously, just because they think that it's unfair on tenants, and that sort of thing.  What are your thoughts?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Well actually, a lot of the opposition people were in favour, I know Sinn Féin were very much in favour of an inflation rate-related rent change system.  I mean, I think it's better than the current system: when you set an upper limit, a ceiling, of what rents can go, so in our case it was 4%, that just becomes a target for landlords.  So landlords go, &quot;well, the most I can increase it by is 4%, so I'm just going to increase it to 4%&quot;, and everybody does, and then rents go up, and suddenly that's the market rent, so the next year you can increase your rent by another 4%, and the rents all go up and up by 4%.

&lt;!--15:29--&gt;
Look, when you have an inflation one, at least it's more broadly related to your expenditure on everything, and it should take some of the sting.  Now, having said that, inflation has been rising over the last few years, so what I would have liked to have seen would have been inflation, related as it is as of today, inflation-related rent increases, but with a cap of, say, two-and-a-half or three per cent on it.  I would have liked to see that, because if inflation does take off, and say we get 6% inflation, then we're in a worse position than we were before when it was only 4%.

&lt;!--16:02--&gt;
But in principle, I think I would be supportive of inflation[-related] rent increases.  And I think most of the opposition would be too.
&lt;!--16:11--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''You wrote in ''{{w|The Sunday Times}}'' on 24 July, 2016 on the obsolete housing rate &quot;[h]ousing policy deserves a better evidential basis.&quot;  Could you speak more to this?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} What I meant with that was, for a start, we didn't know how many houses we were counting every year.  We're very bad at data, so we didn't know how many houses we were building every year, we couldn't count them.  We didn't really know how many empty houses we had, and we didn't know [of] how many obsolete houses.  So, obsolete.  So, we have houses that we live in, we have empty houses like vacant houses, so, I'm away on holidays and my house in Dublin at the moment is empty, that's a vacant house, and then we have obsolete houses.

So, obsolete houses are houses that are, effectively, uninhabitable.  Houses that we have let fall into a huge state of disrepair, so that nobody can live in them: so there's no water, no electricity.  It's just, you know, windows, no rooms, whatever.  And we have a huge problem with that.  Our rate of obsolescence is about four times the international norm, so we're letting an awful lot of buildings that could be potentially reused go un-reusable, if you know what I mean.
&lt;!--17:26--&gt;

[[File:Dr Lorcan Sirr in front of Building 2021 07 16.png|thumb|The outside of the building discussed, with Dr Sirr in the centre. {{image|J.J. Liu}}]]
We're letting them fall down.  [The computer is moved to the outside of his building.]  You see this building here?  That is part of an old farm, and that was a building that was almost obsolete, and the people spent some, borrowed some money and refurbished it, and now they rent it out on {{w|Airbnb}} or whatever.  [The computer is brought back inside.]  And that's the way to do it, like.  It's a perfectly good building, it's a beautiful building.  It's huge and it's really nice and it's really well-done, and, like, we have thousands of houses every year that we let fall into a state that they can't be reused.  And we didn't know how many we were doing it [to].

&lt;!--18:11--&gt;
So, in other words, we have a potential stock of housing that we're just letting rot and letting fall away, and that's what I was talking about in ''The Sunday Times'', that we need to capture that data about how many houses that we're letting fall obsolete, and get a strategy to reuse them, and to, kind of, bring them back to life.  Because not everybody wants a new building, and you can't rely on builders to build every new building, you know, all the new buildings we need.  So, we also need to sort of capitalise on our existing housing stock.
&lt;!--18:37--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''And who do you think should be held responsible for fixing these dilapidated buildings?  Do you think it should be the private sector and the private people or the local government or the national government?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} I think it's not really a kind of a punishment exercise, if you know what I mean.  I think this is probably a situation where a lot of people will have, say, you know, an example, this area I'm in, there's a farm next door and they own this building.  Maybe they didn't have the money, maybe some farmers, maybe some people who own obsolete or derelict buildings don't have the money to do it.  So I think there should be probably a process whereby we can give them a grant, and help them bring the buildings back to use, and then, you know, over 40 years they can repay the loan or repay the grant or whatever.
&lt;!--19:18--&gt;

But I think it can't be just a punishment, we can't just tax people for letting buildings fall out, I think we need to help them bring them back in use again, as well.  So, {{w|carrot and stick}}.
&lt;!--19:26--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''You wrote again in ''The Sunday Times'' that September, and in fact, we've actually been talking a bit right now about, you know, Dublin and the cities, the government under the [[Taoiseach]] [[Enda Kenny]] has been focusing too much &quot;on crowd-pleasing, anti-urban policies that can never work&quot; with regards to its growth centres and {{w|Subsidized housing|housing supports}}.  What are some policy ideas you think could work in, you know, de-incentivising that sort of thing?'''

[[File:Cottonopolis1.jpg|thumb|1800s engraving of industrial-era Manchester as &quot;Cottonopolis&quot;. {{image|Edward Goodall}}]]

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Yeah, so traditionally Ireland has been a fairly rural country, you know, and {{w|Agrarianism|rural issues}} have dominated politics in Ireland for a long, long time.  We didn't have cities like they did in the [[United Kingdom|UK]], so we didn't have an {{w|Industrial Revolution}}.  Like, in the UK they were building big cities in the 1830s, 1840s, 1850s like [[Manchester]], [[Leeds]], [[Birmingham]] and, you know, [[London]] grew and all those kinds of places.  We didn't have any of that!  Now, [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] did, which is like 150 miles up the road, because that was part of the United Kingdom and Belfast grew a {{w|Victorian era|Victorian}}, industrial city, but Dublin never did.
&lt;!--20:27--&gt;

The Industrial Revolution bypassed us because we've had {{w|President of Ireland|presidents}} and prime ministers who had no interest in cities.  We don't have an {{w|urban culture}}, you know.  We don't know how it is to manage a city, we don't even know what a big city really looks like, you know.  You come to Ireland and it's like, what we call cities, like, they're just towns, you know what I mean.  Like, the whole population of Ireland is just a suburb of somewhere in [[Singapore]], you know what I mean.  The scale here is tiny, and we've never had an interest in, kind of, you know, in developing our cities and developing how they should work.  So, it's always been, kind of, the rural politicians have quite often got their way.
&lt;!--21:03--&gt;

And not only that, the people we've had managing places like Dublin have often been rural people, people from a rural background.  So they're not even city livers or city dwellers: they weren't born in the city, they don't know how it is to live in the city.
&lt;!--21:14--&gt;

So, you know, we've neglected our cities over the years.  And it's getting better, but we have neglected our cities over the years.  One of the things I think we could do is have {{w|Direct election|directly-elected}} lord mayors, with powers over the police and over urban developments and things like that.  We don't do that, we don't do local government at all, and I think the most successful things, looking at [[Europe]]an and international cities, is when they have strong local government, they have a directly-elected lord mayor, and if I don't like what the lord mayor has done in my city, I'm going to vote them out.  Whereas we don't have that here.  We have lord mayors, but they're nominal, they're kind of titular honorary kind-of positions; they have no power.  So, everything is determined by the {{w|Civil Service of the Republic of Ireland|civil servants}}, and quite often they are wrong.
&lt;!--21:51--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''Going back to the whole housing supply [question], you know, do you think the government should focus on, you know, incentivising people to move out of Dublin, or starting new jobs outside of cities, or?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Yeah, I mean, for those who want it, absolutely.  I think we should, you know, if it takes pressure off big cities, absolutely help them, kind of, move.  But there's a caveat, and the caveat is: you don't let people move outside Dublin to live like where I am at the moment, which is a one-off house in the middle of the countryside, right.  And if I want to get a pint of milk or a newspaper, I have to get in my car outside, I have to drive five or ten kilometres to the shop, right, and then back here, okay?  That's crazy, it's not sustainable, you know, it's not economic, it's not clever.  So you can't let them do that, but I think if you let them move out of Dublin and into towns and villages, absolutely, why not?
&lt;!--22:43--&gt;

Repopulate the towns and villages, rather than let people live all over the place.
&lt;!--22:48--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''The {{w|Dáil Éireann}} voted recently for an amendment to a bill that would impose a 10% {{w|stamp duty}} rate on '{{w|Leaseback|sale and leaseback}}' or 'cuckoo funds' with an exception if they were purchased for the purpose of social housing.  Do you think this will have a noticeable impact on the number of units available?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} That's a really interesting question, because I think the stamp duty rate, like exempting the funds from the stamp duty rate, is just nonsense, absolutely nonsense.  These funds make so much money that paying the stamp duty will have no effect because when they're renting to the state, the state is the equivalent of having, you know, a {{w|Blue chip (stock market)|blue chip}} tenant in your property, okay.  The state isn't going to {{w|Default (finance)|default}} on the rent, the state will look after the property ''et cetera et cetera''.
&lt;!--23:33--&gt;

So they're making so much money off the state, there was no need to cut the stamp duty.  Previously, nobody wanted the state as a tenant because they were like &quot;poor people in houses, we don't want them.&quot;  Now, the {{w|investment fund}}s have realised &quot;actually, having the state, having the local authorities and councils as a tenant to take 300 of my properties, that's a brilliant thing!  Because they'll always be full, they're going to guarantee me 95% of market rent, and they're going to look after the properties and they will never default on the rent.  The state will not default on the rent, so therefore, it's brilliant!&quot;
&lt;!--24:06--&gt;

So as long as the state keeps doing the crazy stuff of renting properties rather than building properties, these funds will always come.  So [it] probably will increase supply, yeah, but it's a bonkers policy because it's like living on your {{w|credit card}}s, you know: you're constantly paying rent, and at the end of 25 years, you don't own the building.  So, it's kind of a crazy practice for the state to get into, but that's what they're into.
&lt;!--24:28--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''What do you feel about such a large pre[valence] of international, or just large investment companies' presence in the Irish housing market, overall?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Yeah, I'm a bit worried about it because it's a smaller market, they have a disproportionate effect.  In a large country like [[Germany]] or, I don't know where you're from.  Where are you from?

{{WNIQ}} '''From [the United States of] [[United States|America]].'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} In [the United States of] America, a huge market, right?  Those funds are, like, so prevalent in the US and in [[Canada]] and places like that.  I'm quite concerned about them because they tend to have so much money that they can crowd out the small landlords.  In Ireland, the majority of our landlords are small landlords: ordinary people who happen to have a property that they rent out to somebody else.  Like 90% of our landlords are small, they're not these large funds.  I would be worried that these funds will come in, they'd crowd out the small landlords and they won't be competitive.
&lt;!--25:28--&gt;

They won't introduce competition into the market because they're top-end, and they're only interested in the expensive product, and they won't bring down prices because they're not bringing in competition.  I would rather they were, like in other countries in [[Spain]] and places, they're not allowed to be involved in the residential market.  I think that's the correct approach, really.
&lt;!--25:49--&gt; 

[[File:New Housing at Garter Lane - geograph.org.uk - 813414.jpg|thumb|A row of houses in Dublin with a 'for sale' sign at its entryway on May 20, 2008. {{image|Ian Paterson}}]]
{{WNIQ}} '''What are the features of a 'stable' housing market and 'optimal' buying conditions, in your opinion?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} To be honest with you, I don't think there's such a thing as a stable housing market really.  You know, I've never known a market that's 'stable', not in housing.  There's so many various things; housing's not like {{w|stock}}s and {{w|Share (finance)|share}}s, you know stocks and shares, they're pieces of paper.  Housing is always changing.
&lt;!--26:14--&gt;

The demand for housing is always fluctuating, the type of housing is always changing, our needs are always changing.  Other issues impact housing: {{w|employment}}, {{w|taxation}}, {{w|Planning permission|planning}}, {{w|zoning}}, that all impacts on housing.  So it's different to stocks and shares, which nothing affects really except the market demand.
&lt;!--26:30--&gt;

So I've never known a stable housing market, to be honest with you, but one of the things that causes the greatest amount of instability is the idea [in] Ireland and other countries like us, like the UK and [[Australia]]; we have a system called {{w|asset-based welfare}}, and that really means that the government will help you buy your house, and then you're looking after yourself.  So, my house is my {{w|asset}}.  In Ireland, each man, woman and child is worth something like [[USD]]180 thousand each, something like that, alright?  More than half of that is in housing, in real estate property.  So we rely on our property for our wealth.  So when your parents die or when your parents want to send you to university, they can {{w|Home equity loan|borrow against the value of their house}} and send you to university, to get a loan based on the {{w|Home equity|value of their house}}.
&lt;!--27:16--&gt;

So we're relying on our houses for our wealth.  In other countries, they rely on their housing for shelter.  Yeah?  I'm not talking about poor countries, I'm talking about a place like [[Belgium]] and things like that where the housing is not an asset, the housing is shelter, and like in time you sell the house, you don't make much money on it.  Here, we're constantly relying on making money from our housing, so in our heads we always want to see prices rise.  And that of course negatively affects everybody else, particularly young people who need to buy a house, so our approach to housing is one of, we know it's the wrong thing that we should be wanting our value [of] our property to rise, but yet, like, we all secretly want it because it means we're wealthier.
&lt;!--27:56--&gt;

And of course, you're doing nothing.  Like, the price rises in housing are not anything I've done to my house, it's just because demand in my area has gone up, you know?  So, it's kind of {{w|Productive and unproductive labour|non-productive wealth}}, and it's bad to rely on it because we're always looking for things that would keep prices high and not lower them.
&lt;!--28:15--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''Do you think there's any country Ireland can look to as a role model?'''

[[File:View from Sofitel Vienna (5309355120).jpg|thumb|Vienna, [[Austria]] on December 30, 2010. {{image|Jean Léonard POLO}}]]
{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Every country except Ireland, I think, and maybe not the US.  I think, like, no country has it perfect to be honest with you, and every country that I've looked at in, housing has good sides and it has flaws.  I think there's probably more cities than countries that have done so; [[Vienna]] does it very well.  The city of Vienna is really well involved in the delivery of seven thousand apartments every year for citizens of Vienna, and they get them at a subsidised rent and it's, you know, it's much more affordable.
&lt;!--28:50--&gt;

Places like [[Copenhagen]] have also done quite well on {{w|Housing cooperative|housing co-operative}}s, where people get together to build their houses.  I think the {{w|English-speaking world|Anglophone countries}} like Ireland, the US, Australia, [[New Zealand]], we have a very similar system of asset-based welfare and that's totally unhealthy and that's why we have these booms and crashes and booms and crashes.  And unless we start taking the profit element or the asset element out of housing, we're always going to be like that.  
&lt;!--23:16--&gt;

So when you look at countries that don't have that kind of {{w|Financialization|financialisation}} of housing, like the [[Denmark|Danes]] and some of the Austrian cities, some German cities, some from the [[Switzerland|Swiss]], you find a much more, this back to your previous question, a much more stable environment where the risks are in other parts of the economy, but not in housing.  Whereas with us, one of the major systemic risks to our economy is housing, and it shouldn't be.  Housing should be a given, housing should be just something that's there all the time like roads and electricity.  But in Ireland it's not, it's up and down and up and down and it's a major threat to the economy.
&lt;!--29:44--&gt;

{{WNIQ}} '''Do you have any other comments on the state of the Irish housing market?'''

{{WNIR|Dr Lorcan Sirr}} Well, we often talk about the Irish housing market as being dysfunctional, right?  But I don't think there's any such thing as a 'functional' housing market.  There's just so many variables, there's so many human, you know, interactions with it.  The big variable now, of course, is the international money coming in that we can't control—well, we could control, but we're not controlling it.  So now not alone do we have {{w|supply and demand}} and wages and employment and planning and all those things affecting housing, now we can have {{w|Wall Street}} money coming in and effectively telling us what to do, and deciding rents, and so that's another, you know, it's part of {{w|Globalization|globalisation}}, it's part of financialisation.
&lt;!--30:27--&gt;

So, we're kind of constantly leading ourselves down a path which is really hard to get out of.  And really what it's creating is kind of {{w|Social inequality|social inequity}}, because if you're a homeowner, you are increasingly getting more and more advantages over people who don't own homes, and of course homeownership perpetuates homeownership because, you know, when I die or when I'm older I'll be able to get a deposit together and help children buy their house, and they'll be able to help their children buy their houses.  Whereas if you're never a homeowner, you can't do that.  So [it] perpetuates social [in]equality.
&lt;!--30:56--&gt;

So, we need to look at housing in a much broader way than just [[economics]] and money, we need to look at housing much more {{w|Holism|holistically}} in terms of society, planning, {{w|demographics}} and so on.
{{haveyoursay}}

== Sister links ==
{{sisters|w|Irish property bubble|Economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic in the Republic of Ireland}}

== Sources ==
{{interview|media=audio}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.sinnfein.ie/eoin-o-broin
|title  = Eoin Ó Broin TD
|author =
|pub    = Sinn Féin
|date   = July 18, 2021 (date of access)
}}
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|pub    = Worky
|date   = July 16, 2021 (date of access)
}}
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|pub    = Technological University Dublin
|date   = July 16, 2021 (date of access)
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.irishtimes.com/topics/topics-7.1213540?article=true&amp;tag_person=Lorcan+Sirr#
|title  = Lorcan Sirr
|author = 
|pub    = The Irish Times
|date   = July 16, 2021 (date of access)
}}
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}}
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|title  = Summer Economic Statement 2021
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|pub    = Government of Ireland
|date   = July 14, 2021
|medium = PDF
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.thejournal.ie/president-higgins-signs-rent-increase-bill-5491071-Jul2021/
|title  = President Higgins signs rent increase bill into law
|author = Jane Moore
|pub    = TheJournal.ie
|date   = July 9, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.thejournal.ie/10-stamp-duty-cuckoo-funds-5488173-Jul2021/
|title  = Dáil passes controversial amendment allowing cuckoo funds to avoid 10% stamp duty
|author = Christina Finn, Rónan Duffy, Lauren Boland, PA Media
|pub    = TheJournal.ie
|date   = July 7, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40326428.html
|title  = New measures linking rent hikes to inflation are too late, says Sinn Féin
|author = Elaine Loughlin
|pub    = Irish Examiner
|date   = July 1, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/vote/dail/33/2021-06-23/59/
|title  = Residential Tenancies (No. 2) Bill 2021: Committee and Remaining Stages
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|pub    = Houses of the Oireachtas
|date   = June 23, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexapril2021/
|title  = Residential Property Price Index April 2021
|author =
|pub    = Central Statistics Office (Ireland)
|date   = June 16, 2021
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/a8178-minister-obrien-welcomes-cabinet-approval-for-the-publication-of-affordable-housing-bill-2021/
|title  = Minister O’Brien welcomes Cabinet approval for the publication of Affordable Housing Bill 2021
|author =
|pub    = Government of Ireland
|date   = May 4, 2021
}}
*{{source
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|author = Ronan Lyons, Tom Gillespie, Raychel O'Connell, Julian Czeryba
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}}
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|title  = Three-year rent freeze and major investment in cost rental housing is the only way to tackle the rental crisis - Eoin Ó Broin TD
|author = Eoin Ó Broin
|pub    = Sinn Féin
|date   = January 11, 2021
}}
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}}
*{{source
|url    = https://arrow.tudublin.ie/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1058&amp;context=beschrecmed
|title  = To solve housing crisis, we must get over our problem with cities
|author = Lorcan Sirr
|pub    = The Sunday Times
|date   = September 25, 2016
|medium = PDF
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/social-democrats-mark-dail-return-with-call-for-nationwide-rents-freeze/
|title  = Social Democrats mark Dáil return with call for nationwide rents freeze
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|pub    = Social Democrats (Ireland)
|date   = September 18, 2018
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://arrow.tudublin.ie/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1057&amp;context=beschrecmed
|title  = We Must Count on Policy Change to Halt Obsolete Housing Rate
|author = Lorcan Sirr
|pub    = The Sunday Times
|date   = July 24, 2016
|medium = PDF
}}
*{{source
|url    = https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0412/781253-lorcan-sirr-on-cpos/
|title  = Calls for compulsory purchase orders for undeveloped land
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|date   = April 12, 2016
}}
*{{source
|url    = http://www.supremecourt.ie/supremecourt/sclibrary3.nsf/(WebFiles)/B185B01CDB8376FE802575EB005090AF/$FILE/Housing%20(Priv%20Rntd%20Dwlngs)%20Bill_%5B1983%5D%20IR%20181.pdf
|title  = In the matter of Article 26 of the Constitution and in the Matter of The Housing (Private Rented Dwellings) Bill, 1981.
|author =
|pub    = Supreme Court of Ireland
|date   = February 19, 1982
|medium = PDF
}}
[[Category:Ireland]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:Economy and business]]
[[Category:JJLiu112 (Wikinewsie)]]
[[Category:Katholieke Universiteit Leuven]]
[[Category:Dublin]]
[[Category:Oireachtas]]
[[Category:Enda Kenny]]
[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]
[[Category:Real estate]]

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      <text bytes="4201" sha1="exdct4dyva21zvi7xyesy69v1uy0jlu" xml:space="preserve">Can anyone add on to this so it doesn't go stale??? If not I tried, sorry. [[User:Groggytortoise4121|Groggytortoise4121]] ([[User talk:Groggytortoise4121|talk]]) 05:14, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

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== Paywalled sources ==

Very concerned {{re|Bddpaux}} reviewed &amp; published this article that sources The Washington Post, a paywalled source that therefore violates [[Wikinews:PAYWALL]]. Hope someone more experienced than I could help speedily resolve this issue. --[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] {{undated|00:21, 23 January 2022}}
:Also @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]], @[[User:Xbspiro|Xbspiro]], the author of the article [[User:Groggytortoise4121]] had just created his/her account on January 21, 2022 which is just 2 days ago. So getting the first article published this fast is a bit strange. [[User:2006nishan178713|2006nishan178713]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:2006nishan178713|t@lk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:31, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
::I encourage an administrator dialogue. Regardless of what you think should be the paywall policy going forward, I would seriously consider such a conversation in the context of an article that was published, and is on the main page, which breaks current practice. --[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 06:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
:::&lt;small&gt;{{w|Template:Non-admin comment|(non-administrator comment)}}&lt;/small&gt; Well, for what it's worth, I totally agree with you. 
:::Some other things caught my attention here: the sources aren't organized from newest to oldest; the image credit says &quot;at {{w|Flickr}}&quot; instead of linking to the image or simply naming the photographer; the image caption is confusingly worded, and ''Wikinews'' always uses MDY dates; the last sentence says &quot;it was announced&quot;-'''who''' announced it? [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 05:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
A general comment on this topic. [[WN:PAYWALL]] has been in effect for over a decade. The gist of the justification for paid-access sources can never be used is &quot;everyone&quot; needs to be able to verify it. Well, what about stuff that is sent to Scoop? I, for one, don't have access to Scoop. I have to trust the reviewer. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me if the reviewer happens to have already paid for access to a site like WP or WSJ, we should trust that they were able to verify the information. Otherwise, we are suggesting either collusion (as in sock-puppetry or meat-puppetry) or just downright sloppy reviewing. My disagreement with the restrictive nature of the policy aside, it is a serious allegation. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 08:07, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
::::Bumping this conversation since @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] is active these days. 

::::It appears that the KALW article contains all of the necessary facts needed for the article except the quote &quot;the statue itself communicates a racial hierarchy...&quot;[https://www.kalw.org/npr-news/2022-01-20/new-york-citys-natural-history-museum-has-removed-a-theodore-roosevelt-statue] In the KALW article, it is truncated to &quot;communicates a racial hierarchy...&quot; If the WaPo source is removed, a correction should be issued because of the necessary change in our version of the quote, right?

::::The Yahoo! source link (last in the list) leads to a 404 error now. There is a good, archived link available.[https://web.archive.org/web/20220123043854/https://uk.news.yahoo.com/theodore-roosevelt-statue-removed-front-142547558.html] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[:Category:Michael.C.Wright_(Wikinewsie)|Published]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:43, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::No, because we ''cannot'' remove any sources after publication; the sources section is intended to be an accurate documentation of what sources were used for the article. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 16:24, 30 April 2024 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Northern Ireland First Minister Paul Givan resigns over Brexit border checks</title>
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      <comment>New category. See [[Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum#Possible move]]</comment>
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      <text bytes="9800" sha1="rogleyjfy9i58ugdbo3n5yst3kp4wuz" xml:space="preserve">{{date|February 4, 2022}}
{{Infobox|Northern Ireland}}
{{missing image|File:Paul Givan MLA.jpg|thumb|left|Paul Givan as DUP Lagan Valley MLA on May 9, 2016.{{image|{{w|Northern Ireland Assembly Commission}}}}}}

The {{w|Democratic Unionist Party}} (DUP) First Minister of [[Northern Ireland]] {{w|Paul Givan}} resigned effective midnight Friday as part of his party's protests against checks on goods coming from {{w|Great Britain}}.

The checking provision was introduced as part of the {{w|Northern Ireland Protocol}}, which was decided during [[2016 UK EU referendum|Brexit]] negotiations that saw the UK leave the [[European Union]]. However, prominent {{w|Unionism in Ireland|Unionists}} in Northern Ireland have strongly opposed its terms.

Givan's resignation will also force [[Sinn Féin]] Deputy First Minister {{w|Michelle O'Neill}} from office in the devolved {{w|Northern Ireland Executive|Executive}} (Stormont). This cripples the body's legislative power, meaning it can no longer meet to pass vital policies like the three-year budget, an energy bills grant and relaxing [[COVID-19|Covid-19]] restrictions. However, other Stormont ministers remain in portfolio until the {{w|2022 Northern Ireland Assembly election|next elections}} scheduled for May.

Givan's emotional press statement indicated Northern Ireland's institutions are &quot;being tested once again and the delicate balance created by the {{w|Good Friday Agreement|Belfast}} and {{w|St Andrews Agreement|St Andrew’s}} agreements has been impacted by the agreement made by the United Kingdom government and the European Union [Brexit]&quot;. He specifically mentioned the &quot;cornerstone&quot; {{w|principle of consent}} provided as part of the [[Belfast, Northern Ireland|Belfast]] Good Friday Agreement that introduced the power-sharing Executive.

However, he emphasised his &quot;earnest desire that all sections of the community will soon be able to give consent to the restoration of a fully functioning executive, through a resolution to the issues that have regrettably brought us to this point&quot;.

He called his resignation after almost eight months in the post &quot;the end of what has been the privilege of my lifetime - to serve as the First Minister of Northern Ireland&quot;. He succeeded {{w|Arlene Foster}} after she resigned in June 2021. It was something &quot;I never expected to have the opportunity to [do]&quot; when first elected as {{w|Lagan Valley (Assembly constituency)|Lagan Valley}} {{w|Member of the Legislative Assembly (Northern Ireland)|MLA}} in {{w|2011 Northern Ireland Assembly election|2011}}, he added.

The decision was criticised by opposition parties, including &quot;reckless and self-serving&quot; by Sinn Féin finance minister {{w|Conor Murphy}}, in addition to officials in the British and [[Ireland|Irish]] governments. Leader of Sinn Féin {{w|Mary Lou McDonald}} urged an early election to be called &quot;in the absence of a functioning Executive&quot; to show &quot;the DUP actions have consequences, real consequences for people struggling&quot;. Leader of the {{w|Ulster Unionist Party}} {{w|Doug Beattie}} framed it as destabilising, generating &quot;more hardship for the people of Northern Ireland&quot; and ultimately fruitless: &quot;At the end of it all, the Protocol will still be there&quot;.

While McDonald criticised coming inaction on the budget and healthcare investment for &quot;the DUPs own narrow and self-serving political interests&quot;, others expressed concern over the crippling of government services. UK {{w|Secretary of State for Northern Ireland}} {{w|Brandon Lewis}} called the move &quot;extremely disappointing&quot; and urged a reinstatement to &quot;ensure the necessary delivery of public services for the citizens of Northern Ireland&quot;. Prime Minister [[Boris Johnson]] emphasised the UK government's priority &quot;for a resilient Northern Ireland Executive&quot;.

Taoiseach of Ireland {{w|Michéal Martin}} called Givan's decision &quot;a highly damaging move&quot;. Through a spokesperson he warned &quot;[i]t is absolutely vital for peace and prosperity in Northern Ireland that the Executive is delivering for the people of Northern Ireland, particularly now as we emerge from the [[COVID-19|Covid]] pandemic&quot;. He urged &quot;the DUP to return to full engagement with all the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement&quot; that the Protocol protects &quot;in all its dimensions&quot;.

He added talks between the UK and EU, of which Ireland is a member, are ongoing and &quot;must be given every chance to succeed&quot;. He further said: &quot;The [European] [[European Commission|Commission]] has put forward serious proposals which directly address the concerns about outstanding issues on implementation of the Protocol&quot;. Givan had told reporters he was resigning as Unionists were being required &quot;to be seen and not heard&quot; regarding the Protocol.

British Foreign Secretary {{w|Liz Truss}} and Commission vice president {{w|Maroš Šefčovič}} met via video conference on Thursday to discuss the Protocol, &quot;the only solution we have found with the UK government to protect the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement&quot;. In a statement, Šefčovič called yesterday's instruction by Stormont Agriculture Minister and former DUP leader {{w|Edwin Poots}} to suspend certain checks for goods entering Northern Ireland &quot;very unhelpful&quot;. Truss and Šefčovič will meet again on February 11.

[[File:Stroud Street Belfast 01.02.21.jpg|thumb|left|February 1, 2021 graffiti in Belfast opposes the &quot;{{w|Irish Sea border}}&quot; introduced as part of the Northern Ireland Protocol.{{image|[[:c:User:Whiteabbey|User:Whiteabbey]]}}]]
Unionist politicians have made their position on the Protocol clear. Following Givan's resignation, DUP party leader Sir {{w|Jeffrey Donaldson}} said it &quot;represents an existential threat to the future of Northern Ireland's place within the Union&quot;. He added the UK government has not held up the {{w|New Decade, New Approach}} agreement that was the basis for the DUP re-entering the Executive in January 2020. The deal ended a three-year impasse in power-sharing between Sinn Féin and the DUP following the {{w|Renewable Heat Incentive scandal}}.

The ''{{w|Irish Independent}}'' understands the statement and time of Givan's resignation was confirmed in a meeting between high-ranking DUP members earlier on Thursday.

Poots's decision to suspend sanitary and phytosanitary checks not imposed by December 31, 2020 allegedly followed legal advice which &quot;concluded that I can direct the checks to cease in the absence of Executive approval&quot;. Although the UK government has said it will not intervene in a &quot;matter for the Northern Ireland Executive&quot;, it faced criticism as &quot;a breach of international law&quot; by Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs {{w|Simon Coveney}}. Šefčovič called it as &quot;essential&quot; that checks are still being conducted, while a spokesperson on Johnson's behalf expressed support for &quot;a swift resolution.&quot;

{{haveyoursay}}

== Sources ==
*{{source
|url        = https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/03/northern-ireland-first-minister-poised-to-quit-over-brexit-reports-say
|title      = Northern Ireland first minister resigns over Brexit checks on goods
|author     = Lisa O'Carroll
|pub        = The Guardian
|date       = February 3, 2022
|archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20220203190055/https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/03/northern-ireland-first-minister-poised-to-quit-over-brexit-reports-say
}}
*{{source
|url        = https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/dups-paul-givan-resigns-as-first-minister-of-northern-ireland-in-brexit-protocol-protest-as-sinn-fein-calls-for-early-election-41307670.html
|title      = DUP’s Paul Givan resigns as first minister of Northern Ireland in Brexit Protocol protest, as Sinn Féin calls for early election
|author     = David Young, Jonathan McCambridge, Philip Ryan
|pub        = Irish Independent
|date       = February 3, 2022
|archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20220203190137/https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/dups-paul-givan-resigns-as-northern-ireland-first-minister-as-taoiseach-brands-it-very-damaging-move-41307670.html
}}
*{{source
|url        = https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2022/0203/1277530-paul-givan/
|title      = Paul Givan resigns as NI First Minister
|author     = Vincent Kearney
|pub        = Raidió Teilifís Éireann
|date       = February 3, 2022
|archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20220203190228/https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2022/0203/1277530-paul-givan/
}}
*{{source
|url        = https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_22_787
|title      = Statement by Vice-President Šefčovič following his videoconference with the UK Foreign Secretary on the implementation of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland
|author     = Maroš Šefčovič
|pub        = European Commission
|date       = February 3, 2022
|archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20220203190323/https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_22_787
}}
*{{source
|url        = https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0202/1277443-ni-checks/
|title      = UK Government will not intervene in order to halt NI Protocol checks
|author     = Vincent Kearney
|pub        = Raidió Teilifís Éireann
|date       = February 2, 2022
|archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20220203190459/https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0202/1277443-ni-checks/
}}
{{Publish}}
{{Archived-cc-2.5}}
[[Category:Northern Ireland]]
[[Category:Ireland]]
[[Category:Economy and business]]
[[Category:Europe]]
[[Category:European Commission]]
[[Category:Boris Johnson]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:2016 UK EU referendum]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]
[[Category:JJLiu112 (Wikinewsie)]]
[[Category:Liz Truss]]
[[Category:Sinn Féin]]
[[Category:Democratic Unionist Party]]
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[[Cagegory:Brexit]]</text>
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      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
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{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[UK MI6 chief Blaise Metreweli warns of 'grey zone' warfare in first speech]]
* [[Russian Justice Ministry designates former Putin advisor Sergey Markov as &quot;foreign agent&quot;]]
* [[Russia launches record drone, missile attack on Kyiv]]
* [[Ukrainian drone strikes target four airfields in Russia]]
* [[Drone strike kills civilians in Bilopillia, Ukraine]]
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{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for {{PAGENAME}} and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Event infoboxes]]
[[Category:Russia]]
[[Category:Ukraine]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>Talk:Belfast</title>
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      <comment>/* Is this still an important conversation? */ reply ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
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      <text bytes="6258" sha1="8zsr6ej0p88y4b4ctm8vv0k1aixhmlr" xml:space="preserve">== April 2022 ==
{{flag}}
Why have this page, when we don't have similar ones for [[Boston]], which has a town in England with 35,000 people; [[Richmond, Virginia]], a city in California with 100,000+ people, etc? If we don't have enough articles on Belfast, Maine to make it an article, why keep a disambig for it? Why not just redirect to [[Belfast, Northern Ireland]]? --[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 07:26, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
:{{re|JJLiu112}} Agreed. I’ve redirected to the category. ['''[[:User:Cromium|&lt;sub&gt;24&lt;/sub&gt;Cr]]''']['''[[:User talk:Cromium|talk]]'''] 13:47, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
:{{re|Acagastya}} See the above request. I disagree with this disambiguation for those reasons. ['''[[:User:Cromium|&lt;sub&gt;24&lt;/sub&gt;Cr]]''']['''[[:User talk:Cromium|talk]]'''] 19:58, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
::I know that Pi zero disliked Wikipedia's practice of having redirects point to the most commonly used target, arguing it was subjective and played favorites. He much preferred disambiguation pages and created {{tl|mainspace disambig}} specifically for that purpose. This is a very useful tool and I used it myself for [[:George Bush]]; but he and I disagreed on when it should be used. I feel that for geo-cats it is not useful when there is a great disparity in usage. I echo JJ's sentiment above, especially when Wikinews only has one category. It is a veritable Pandora's box where [[:Paris]] should point to a disambiguation page for [[:Paris, France]] and {{w|Paris, Texas}}, just to list another example. Where I agreed with Pi zero, are cases like [[:Obama]], where Wikipedia points straight to [[:Barack Obama]]. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 20:35, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
:::When a disambig is added already, one should not be putting the effort removing it -- a little bit of precaution and future-proofing does not hurt as much as when things need to be moved when there wasn't much future-proofing.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 20:59, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
::::[[:Belfast]] is currently used in 14 articles, all of which are intending to point to [[:Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]. What is more work? Changing a disambiguation to a redirect or fixing the archive? What if someone suddenly changed [[:Paris]] to a disambiguation? Would we be obliged to fix the archive or simply undo it? Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 21:10, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
:::::I think in a situation like this where all the incoming links are to one cat, we should either change their targets to that cat immediately or make the page with the short name into a redirect temporarily and incrementally work on changing the link targets, rather than creating a disambiguation page there. And in the Paris hypothetical, we could revert that edit and, if we agreed we wanted to implement it, we could move the cat and then work on the link targets, leaving the redirect in place temporarily. As to when we should create disambig pages, I would support being as specific as the situation demands in the naming convention, but only creating a disambig when there are at least two relevant ''cats'' (which reminds me, actually, that en.wp does a similar thing, only creating a disambig when there are at least two articles). When we have one, we could link to anything else relevant through the en.wp disambiguation page if there is one. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 22:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I completely agree. Obama could be either Barack or Michelle, there are articles on them both. Belfast, Maine has a population under seven thousand, while Belfast, Northern Ireland has many articles categorised under it already. --[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 21:17, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

== Is this still an important conversation? ==

I was going to go through the archive and edit all sixteen of the articles that point here. But then I realized I can't even edit them because they are protected (I assumed I could make un-sighted changes that would then need to be sighted).

Given there has been no new comment in just over two years, do we need to retain the flag? Too many flagged conversations dilutes the effectiveness of the flag. Too many flagged and stale conversations is even worse. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[:Category:Michael.C.Wright_(Wikinewsie)|Published]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
:I think it's an important conversation to have, and I don't think there's a consensus for anything yet. Since the articles are all [[WN:ARCHIVE|archived]], no, only admins can edit them (edits still need to be sighted, which can only be done by someone who has both reviewer and admin, which is pretty much all of the human admins). [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 22:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]]
::Is any action required. I think for now users have to link to  [[Belfast, Northern Ireland]] in news and not to [[Belfast]], which in principle is ok, but links are confusing for new users anyway. Mentioned this in 
::* [[Wikinews:Water_cooler/technical#Software_request_to_make_wikilinks_less_confusing_for_new_users]]
::Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 03:27, 23 November 2025 (UTC)
: I have split the difference: I've pointed all existing links in archived articles from Belfast to [[:Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]. Now nothing points to the disambiguation page, which I have left according to @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya's]] [[#c-Acagastya-2022-04-10T20:59:00.000Z-SVTCobra-2022-04-10T20:35:00.000Z|comment above]]. In this way, if a link is made to simply Belfast, it will hit the disambiguation page. 
: I'm now closing this flag [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 23:04, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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      <comment>/* April 2022 */ close flag.</comment>
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      <text bytes="6261" sha1="ln2yxidj6nzho195d9lp355r080eqnm" xml:space="preserve">== April 2022 ==
{{tl|flag}}
Why have this page, when we don't have similar ones for [[Boston]], which has a town in England with 35,000 people; [[Richmond, Virginia]], a city in California with 100,000+ people, etc? If we don't have enough articles on Belfast, Maine to make it an article, why keep a disambig for it? Why not just redirect to [[Belfast, Northern Ireland]]? --[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 07:26, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
:{{re|JJLiu112}} Agreed. I’ve redirected to the category. ['''[[:User:Cromium|&lt;sub&gt;24&lt;/sub&gt;Cr]]''']['''[[:User talk:Cromium|talk]]'''] 13:47, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
:{{re|Acagastya}} See the above request. I disagree with this disambiguation for those reasons. ['''[[:User:Cromium|&lt;sub&gt;24&lt;/sub&gt;Cr]]''']['''[[:User talk:Cromium|talk]]'''] 19:58, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
::I know that Pi zero disliked Wikipedia's practice of having redirects point to the most commonly used target, arguing it was subjective and played favorites. He much preferred disambiguation pages and created {{tl|mainspace disambig}} specifically for that purpose. This is a very useful tool and I used it myself for [[:George Bush]]; but he and I disagreed on when it should be used. I feel that for geo-cats it is not useful when there is a great disparity in usage. I echo JJ's sentiment above, especially when Wikinews only has one category. It is a veritable Pandora's box where [[:Paris]] should point to a disambiguation page for [[:Paris, France]] and {{w|Paris, Texas}}, just to list another example. Where I agreed with Pi zero, are cases like [[:Obama]], where Wikipedia points straight to [[:Barack Obama]]. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 20:35, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
:::When a disambig is added already, one should not be putting the effort removing it -- a little bit of precaution and future-proofing does not hurt as much as when things need to be moved when there wasn't much future-proofing.&lt;br&gt;[[User talk:Acagastya|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #000; box-shadow: 0 0 7px #5de; padding-left:2.5px; padding-right:2.5px; border-radius:10px;&quot;&gt;•&amp;ndash;•&lt;/span&gt;]] 20:59, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
::::[[:Belfast]] is currently used in 14 articles, all of which are intending to point to [[:Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]. What is more work? Changing a disambiguation to a redirect or fixing the archive? What if someone suddenly changed [[:Paris]] to a disambiguation? Would we be obliged to fix the archive or simply undo it? Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 21:10, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
:::::I think in a situation like this where all the incoming links are to one cat, we should either change their targets to that cat immediately or make the page with the short name into a redirect temporarily and incrementally work on changing the link targets, rather than creating a disambiguation page there. And in the Paris hypothetical, we could revert that edit and, if we agreed we wanted to implement it, we could move the cat and then work on the link targets, leaving the redirect in place temporarily. As to when we should create disambig pages, I would support being as specific as the situation demands in the naming convention, but only creating a disambig when there are at least two relevant ''cats'' (which reminds me, actually, that en.wp does a similar thing, only creating a disambig when there are at least two articles). When we have one, we could link to anything else relevant through the en.wp disambiguation page if there is one. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 22:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:::I completely agree. Obama could be either Barack or Michelle, there are articles on them both. Belfast, Maine has a population under seven thousand, while Belfast, Northern Ireland has many articles categorised under it already. --[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 21:17, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

== Is this still an important conversation? ==

I was going to go through the archive and edit all sixteen of the articles that point here. But then I realized I can't even edit them because they are protected (I assumed I could make un-sighted changes that would then need to be sighted).

Given there has been no new comment in just over two years, do we need to retain the flag? Too many flagged conversations dilutes the effectiveness of the flag. Too many flagged and stale conversations is even worse. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[:Category:Michael.C.Wright_(Wikinewsie)|Published]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
:I think it's an important conversation to have, and I don't think there's a consensus for anything yet. Since the articles are all [[WN:ARCHIVE|archived]], no, only admins can edit them (edits still need to be sighted, which can only be done by someone who has both reviewer and admin, which is pretty much all of the human admins). [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 22:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]]
::Is any action required. I think for now users have to link to  [[Belfast, Northern Ireland]] in news and not to [[Belfast]], which in principle is ok, but links are confusing for new users anyway. Mentioned this in 
::* [[Wikinews:Water_cooler/technical#Software_request_to_make_wikilinks_less_confusing_for_new_users]]
::Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 03:27, 23 November 2025 (UTC)
: I have split the difference: I've pointed all existing links in archived articles from Belfast to [[:Category:Belfast, Northern Ireland]]. Now nothing points to the disambiguation page, which I have left according to @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya's]] [[#c-Acagastya-2022-04-10T20:59:00.000Z-SVTCobra-2022-04-10T20:35:00.000Z|comment above]]. In this way, if a link is made to simply Belfast, it will hit the disambiguation page. 
: I'm now closing this flag [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 23:04, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ln2yxidj6nzho195d9lp355r080eqnm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Category talk:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine</title>
    <ns>15</ns>
    <id>2965880</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008769</id>
      <parentid>4931163</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:03:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>rm flag template</comment>
      <origin>5008769</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4395" sha1="2qke7e0ehq0w5rlw8ahibk34h3nflb0" xml:space="preserve">== Rename ==

Rename to 2022-23 Russian invasion of Ukraine, as the war continues; see [[:Category:2008-09 financial crisis]]. [[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 00:02, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

:Wikipedia had many long and painful discussions about this (from midnight on January 1) and there was no consensus to move because ''the invasion'' happened in 2022, although ''the war'' continues into 2023. Not saying that we should just follow what Wikipedia does, but. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 00:09, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
::Yet there, it's named {{w|2007–2008 financial crisis}} :p...anyways, it'd be worth at the least discussing here, in the context of an evolving current events site. [[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 00:25, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
::That was in December. In February, they renamed it to Russian invasion of Ukraine (2022-23), then in March renamed it ''again'' to just {{w|Russian invasion of Ukraine}}. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 02:16, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
:I would say do Russian invasion of Ukraine, as were now in 2024 and it will probably continue for a while. As well, an end date implies that it ended in that year, which we have no way of knowing until if and when it does. Besides, particularly for news, the '''current news''' isn't about the initial invasion, its about whats happening now [[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] ([[User talk:Me Da Wikipedian|talk]]) 00:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Chiming in a little late here, but an invasion is a starting point and thus can only be a single point in time regardless of whether it continues or was successful, hence 2022. If we change it, the new name should be an agreed-upon name of the conflict (&quot;Russo-Ukrainian War&quot; or something along those lines). My two cents. Cheers, --[[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 06:15, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

:However, I just realized WP uses it for all hostilities since 2014 (see [[w:Russo-Ukrainian War]]). [[User:SVTCobra|'''SVT''']][[User Talk:SVTCobra|''Cobra'']] 06:30, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
:Would it be worth consolidating all articles of the Russian-Ukrainian hostilities into one mega-category titled 'Russo-Ukrainian War'? Same for [[:Category:2016 UK EU referendum]] to one big 'Brexit' category, and I'm sure other examples exist. [[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 16:04, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
::It would be a big task: everything in [[:Category:War in Donbas]] and [[:Category:Crimea]] (post-2014) would need recategorizing. Worth it, though. I would certainly {{support}} renaming &quot;2016 UK EU referendum&quot;: besides the repetitive acronyms and non-standard name, recent articles there mention Brexit's aftermath, not the referendum itself (see [[Loyalists suspected of threatening Irish Foreign Minister with fake bomb]], for example). [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 16:35, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
:::I withdraw both recommendations per talk there. But I support renaming to Russian invasion of Ukraine. [[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 04:12, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
::::Bumping the topic to see if there is still interest in it. 

::::I would support a rename inline with [[User:SVTCobra|SVTCobra]]'s comments [[Category_talk:2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#c-SVTCobra-20230301061500-Rename|here]] and [[Category_talk:2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#c-SVTCobra-20230301063000-SVTCobra-20230301061500|here]] and [[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]]'s comment [[Category_talk:2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#c-JJLiu112-20230301160400-SVTCobra-20230301061500|here]]. Meaning I would support a move to something like ''Russo-Ukrainian War''. I could also lend a hand in changing [[:Category:War in Donbas]] and [[:Category:Crimea]]. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[:Category:Michael.C.Wright_(Wikinewsie)|Published]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::As still ongoing so '2022-23' does not make sense. Would it be ok to keep it as is. @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] and @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] and @[[User:Me Da Wikipedian|Me Da Wikipedian]] and @[[User:SVTCobra|SVTCobra]] ? I liked the 2022 as it seemed as start year. Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 03:22, 23 November 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2qke7e0ehq0w5rlw8ahibk34h3nflb0</sha1>
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  <page>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>2866566</id>
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      <comment>Clarified usage</comment>
      <origin>5008736</origin>
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{{possible-risk}}

Add this template to the talk page of a protected page if you request that it be edited, in a new topic, and while listing your requested changes below it. The request will be automatically listed below, and on the [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts]] page.

If the protected page is an archived published Wikinews article with a factual error, the edit will have to take the form of a {{tl|correction}}.

This sorts the page into [[:Category:Protected edit requests]].

'''Note''': Do not &quot;[[w:Wikipedia:Template substitution|subst]]&quot; this template as '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:editprotected}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''', simply use '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{editprotected}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;'''.

=== List of pages requested ({{PAGESINCATEGORY:Protected edit requests}}) '''&lt;small&gt;{{refresh|Refresh}}&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;[[File:Reload page.png|22px|link={{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}}]]''' ===
&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
category=Protected edit requests
addfirstcategorydate=true
&lt;/DynamicPageList&gt;

=== Usage ===


=== See also ===

&lt;includeonly&gt;
&lt;!-- CATEGORIES AND INTERWIKIS HERE, THANKS. --&gt;

&lt;/includeonly&gt;</text>
      <sha1>htzp086ofbu9nx7qn76k6zahxyikh2o</sha1>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:51:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael21107</username>
        <id>2866566</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Removed empty sections</comment>
      <origin>5008737</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1071" sha1="85ptsou00zfstjvtqyp1b1kl2yufrmg" xml:space="preserve">{{Documentation subpage}}
{{possible-risk}}

Add this template to the talk page of a protected page if you request that it be edited, in a new topic, and while listing your requested changes below it. The request will be automatically listed below, and on the [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts]] page.

If the protected page is an archived published Wikinews article with a factual error, the edit will have to take the form of a {{tl|correction}}.

This sorts the page into [[:Category:Protected edit requests]].

'''Note''': Do not &quot;[[w:Wikipedia:Template substitution|subst]]&quot; this template as '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:editprotected}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''', simply use '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{editprotected}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;'''.

=== List of pages requested ({{PAGESINCATEGORY:Protected edit requests}}) '''&lt;small&gt;{{refresh|Refresh}}&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;[[File:Reload page.png|22px|link={{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}}]]''' ===
&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
category=Protected edit requests
addfirstcategorydate=true
&lt;/DynamicPageList&gt;
&lt;includeonly&gt;
&lt;!-- CATEGORIES AND INTERWIKIS HERE, THANKS. --&gt;

&lt;/includeonly&gt;</text>
      <sha1>85ptsou00zfstjvtqyp1b1kl2yufrmg</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:Michael.C.Wright/common.js</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>2967421</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008432</id>
      <parentid>4988331</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:55:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>let's see what this breaks</comment>
      <origin>5008432</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="1290" sha1="6yawlhfa3x5gljyirqk5m24a66kytqc" xml:space="preserve">mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/QuickCat.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/LeadManager.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/js/pageviewURLbuilder.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/js/MarkupManager.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
//mw.loader.load('/wiki/User:Michael.C.Wright/js/MarkupTestRunner.js');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/js/Admin-tools.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/SourceHelper.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/ORNotesWizard.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load( '/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/EPRv2.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript' ); // Backlink: [[User:Asked42/EPRv2.js]]
mw.loader.load( '/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/Taglet.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript' ); // Backlink: [[User:Asked42/Taglet.js]]
mw.loader.load('/wiki/User:Michael.C.Wright/js/Template-rebuild.js?ctype=text/javascript');</text>
      <sha1>6yawlhfa3x5gljyirqk5m24a66kytqc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008435</id>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:02:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>match others</comment>
      <origin>5008435</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="1331" sha1="b5a3n3ewf2hbxvm4fm5m63w9xf6fr99" xml:space="preserve">mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/QuickCat.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/LeadManager.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/js/pageviewURLbuilder.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/js/MarkupManager.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
//mw.loader.load('/wiki/User:Michael.C.Wright/js/MarkupTestRunner.js');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/js/Admin-tools.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/SourceHelper.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/ORNotesWizard.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load( '/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/EPRv2.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript' ); // Backlink: [[User:Asked42/EPRv2.js]]
mw.loader.load( '/w/index.php?title=User:Asked42/Taglet.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript' ); // Backlink: [[User:Asked42/Taglet.js]]
mw.loader.load('//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/js/Template-rebuild.js&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/javascript');</text>
      <sha1>b5a3n3ewf2hbxvm4fm5m63w9xf6fr99</sha1>
    </revision>
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  <page>
    <title>User:Michael.C.Wright/Committed identity</title>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Quotaoxus</username>
        <id>2954213</id>
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      <origin>5008795</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="75" sha1="348gueb3lr8sevhc4t3gojn1solskuw" xml:space="preserve">{{Delete|Personal subpages, upon request by their owner}}
badar delete this</text>
      <sha1>348gueb3lr8sevhc4t3gojn1solskuw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008796</id>
      <parentid>5008795</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:08:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Quotaoxus</username>
        <id>2954213</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>5008796</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8" sha1="gtt43ed7kdhsigvctg9h555tpxj05zx" xml:space="preserve">{stwrfae</text>
      <sha1>gtt43ed7kdhsigvctg9h555tpxj05zx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008797</id>
      <parentid>5008796</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:09:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>NDG</username>
        <id>2889723</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contribs/Quotaoxus|Quotaoxus]] ([[User talk:Quotaoxus|talk]]) to last version by Michael.C.Wright: purely nonsense content</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="57" sha1="kzsxrw325j7nvfyrvyhil2w7qh1caqu" xml:space="preserve">{{Delete|Personal subpages, upon request by their owner}}</text>
      <sha1>kzsxrw325j7nvfyrvyhil2w7qh1caqu</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Main page leads test */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008334</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6807" sha1="9vxc39jmh8z0mcc25w75ll3f92931yq" xml:space="preserve">{{Clickable button|New section|url=http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new|class=mw-ui-progressive}}

== Working pages ==
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/wikibreak]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/TranslationAnalysis|Michael.C.Wright/TranslationAnalysis]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/timeline|Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/timeline]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/pre-review|Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/pre-review]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/quotation|Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/quotation]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/review-checklist|User:Michael.C.Wright/review-checklist]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/The problem]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/Review process study|Review process study]]

[[:Special:PrefixIndex/User:Michael.C.Wright/]]

== Test pre-review ==

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;{{User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/pre-review
|evaluated-url=
|status=
|updated=15:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
|copyright=
|earwig-permalink=
|newsworthy=
|verifiable=
|npov=
|style=
|author-notes=test
|reviewer-notes=
|updated-notes=test updated notes
}}&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== Test Verify ==
{{develop|nocat=1}}
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.{{Verify|source1=User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox}}

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

== test wikibreak ==
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;{{User:Michael.C.Wright/wikibreak|type=christmas|leave=December 18, 2024|back=January 2, 2025}}&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== test archive/sandbox ==

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;{{Archive/sandbox}}&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== test PrinteditionSXW ==

{{tl|PrinteditionSXW}}

== test template:Translated Wikinews ==

&lt;pre&gt;{{Translated Wikinews/sandbox
| language = German
| wiki = de
| title = Airplane crash in South Korea: 179 of 181 passengers dead
| cc-ver = 3.0
}}&lt;/pre&gt;

== test template:PhraseReview ==

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. {{PhraseReview|text=Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit|src=https://cnn.com}}. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

== test Module:DetectTemplates ==

&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch: {{#invoke:DetectDraft|detectTemplates}}
  | true  = &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;&quot;&gt;This page is under development or review.&lt;/span&gt;
  | false = &lt;span style=&quot;color:red;&quot;&gt;This page is not under development or review.&lt;/span&gt;
  | #default = &lt;span style=&quot;color:gray;&quot;&gt;Unable to determine page status.&lt;/span&gt;
}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;

== test module and template:ConvertTime ==
Not substituted:

&lt;nowiki&gt;{{ConvertTime|convert|time=1:45 p.m.|timezone=CDT}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;

substituted: using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:#invoke:ConvertTime|convert|time=1:45 p.m.|timezone=CDT}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;

1:45 p.m. CDT (1845 UTC)

Use 'local time' if not specified:

1:45 p.m. local time (0945 UTC)

== test template:latest news  ==

&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Latest news/sandbox2}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;

Namespace: {{NAMESPACE}}

== test template:date ==

{{Date/sandbox|February 28, 2025}}

== new userbox ==

{{userbox
| id = [[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025-mini.png|40px]]
| info = ''This user was the original author of the [[Wikinews:2025 Boost publication rate/Monthly top article|top article]] for January, 2025''
| border-s = 1
}}
{{clear}}

== test wikibreak ==

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;{{User:Michael.C.Wright/wikibreak
 |imagesize=100px
 |type=normal
 |leave=April 2, 2025
 |back=May 5, 2025
 |message=I will be less available on Wikinews during this time. There may be periods when I have no access at all, so I may not be able to respond promptly or contribute as usual. Thank you for your patience and understanding.}}&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== Published but not archived ==

&lt;pre&gt;&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
allowcachedresults = true
category=Published
notcategory=Archived
addfirstcategorydate=true
&lt;/DynamicPageList&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;

== test delete template ==

{{tl|delete/sandbox|a1}}

== test markupmanager ==

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed non risus.  Praesent mauris.  Fusce nec tellus sed augue semper porta.  Curabitur blandit tempus porttitor.  Integer posuere erat a ante venenatis dapibus posuere velit aliquet.  Morbi leo risus, porta ac consectetur ac, vestibulum at eros.  Nullam id dolor id nibh ultricies vehicula ut id elit.

[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Michael.C.Wright/MarkupManager?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox&amp;do=remove]

== Testing template:highlight ==

This is a generic highlight (no type specified) for general emphasis.

This sentence type=expand

Here's a type=preserve|text=type=preserve: well-written phrase we might want to keep unchanged.

This phrase contains type=bias|text=type=bias: loaded language that could raise neutrality concerns.

This statement type=attribution|text=type=attribution: claim needs citation in prose lacks in-text sourcing.

This is a type=preserve|text=preserve with note|note=Quoted directly from source, preserve wording — it demonstrates a custom tooltip using `note=`.

This is a type=preserve|text=preserve with note|note=Quoted directly from source, preserve wording|visibility=hidden — it demonstrates a custom tooltip using `note=`.

== Advanced searches ==

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext&gt;insource:/\{\{\s*[Cc]orrection/ -insource:/\{\{\s*[Pp]ublish/&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== test ezprv2 ==

Some article here

{{tl|review}}

== test ==

=== Heading text ===
{{#ifeq:{{PROTECTIONLEVEL:edit}}|sysop|This page is fully protected|}}

== list five articles from category ==

{{#invoke:List5articles|main|cat=2008 SecuTech Expo}}

== Main page leads test ==


{{Lead article 1}}

{{Lead article 2}}

{{Lead article 3}}

{{Lead article 4}}

{{Lead article 5}}</text>
      <sha1>9vxc39jmh8z0mcc25w75ll3f92931yq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008335</id>
      <parentid>5008334</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:21:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* list five articles from category */ delete test</comment>
      <origin>5008335</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6712" sha1="7yr90wrnswz7m5pkkkngmen6i7ppzzq" xml:space="preserve">{{Clickable button|New section|url=http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}&amp;action=edit&amp;section=new|class=mw-ui-progressive}}

== Working pages ==
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/wikibreak]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/TranslationAnalysis|Michael.C.Wright/TranslationAnalysis]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/timeline|Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/timeline]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/pre-review|Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/pre-review]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/quotation|Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/quotation]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/review-checklist|User:Michael.C.Wright/review-checklist]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/The problem]]
* [[User:Michael.C.Wright/Review process study|Review process study]]

[[:Special:PrefixIndex/User:Michael.C.Wright/]]

== Test pre-review ==

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;{{User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox/pre-review
|evaluated-url=
|status=
|updated=15:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
|copyright=
|earwig-permalink=
|newsworthy=
|verifiable=
|npov=
|style=
|author-notes=test
|reviewer-notes=
|updated-notes=test updated notes
}}&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== Test Verify ==
{{develop|nocat=1}}
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.{{Verify|source1=User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox}}

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

== test wikibreak ==
&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;{{User:Michael.C.Wright/wikibreak|type=christmas|leave=December 18, 2024|back=January 2, 2025}}&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== test archive/sandbox ==

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;{{Archive/sandbox}}&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== test PrinteditionSXW ==

{{tl|PrinteditionSXW}}

== test template:Translated Wikinews ==

&lt;pre&gt;{{Translated Wikinews/sandbox
| language = German
| wiki = de
| title = Airplane crash in South Korea: 179 of 181 passengers dead
| cc-ver = 3.0
}}&lt;/pre&gt;

== test template:PhraseReview ==

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida. {{PhraseReview|text=Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit|src=https://cnn.com}}. Nulla facilisi. Vestibulum vitae elit non velit accumsan gravida.

== test Module:DetectTemplates ==

&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch: {{#invoke:DetectDraft|detectTemplates}}
  | true  = &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;&quot;&gt;This page is under development or review.&lt;/span&gt;
  | false = &lt;span style=&quot;color:red;&quot;&gt;This page is not under development or review.&lt;/span&gt;
  | #default = &lt;span style=&quot;color:gray;&quot;&gt;Unable to determine page status.&lt;/span&gt;
}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;

== test module and template:ConvertTime ==
Not substituted:

&lt;nowiki&gt;{{ConvertTime|convert|time=1:45 p.m.|timezone=CDT}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;

substituted: using &lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:#invoke:ConvertTime|convert|time=1:45 p.m.|timezone=CDT}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;

1:45 p.m. CDT (1845 UTC)

Use 'local time' if not specified:

1:45 p.m. local time (0945 UTC)

== test template:latest news  ==

&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Latest news/sandbox2}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;

Namespace: {{NAMESPACE}}

== test template:date ==

{{Date/sandbox|February 28, 2025}}

== new userbox ==

{{userbox
| id = [[File:Wikinews-barnstar-2025-mini.png|40px]]
| info = ''This user was the original author of the [[Wikinews:2025 Boost publication rate/Monthly top article|top article]] for January, 2025''
| border-s = 1
}}
{{clear}}

== test wikibreak ==

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=&quot;wikitext&quot;&gt;{{User:Michael.C.Wright/wikibreak
 |imagesize=100px
 |type=normal
 |leave=April 2, 2025
 |back=May 5, 2025
 |message=I will be less available on Wikinews during this time. There may be periods when I have no access at all, so I may not be able to respond promptly or contribute as usual. Thank you for your patience and understanding.}}&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== Published but not archived ==

&lt;pre&gt;&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
allowcachedresults = true
category=Published
notcategory=Archived
addfirstcategorydate=true
&lt;/DynamicPageList&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;

== test delete template ==

{{tl|delete/sandbox|a1}}

== test markupmanager ==

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed non risus.  Praesent mauris.  Fusce nec tellus sed augue semper porta.  Curabitur blandit tempus porttitor.  Integer posuere erat a ante venenatis dapibus posuere velit aliquet.  Morbi leo risus, porta ac consectetur ac, vestibulum at eros.  Nullam id dolor id nibh ultricies vehicula ut id elit.

[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Michael.C.Wright/MarkupManager?title=User:Michael.C.Wright/sandbox&amp;do=remove]

== Testing template:highlight ==

This is a generic highlight (no type specified) for general emphasis.

This sentence type=expand

Here's a type=preserve|text=type=preserve: well-written phrase we might want to keep unchanged.

This phrase contains type=bias|text=type=bias: loaded language that could raise neutrality concerns.

This statement type=attribution|text=type=attribution: claim needs citation in prose lacks in-text sourcing.

This is a type=preserve|text=preserve with note|note=Quoted directly from source, preserve wording — it demonstrates a custom tooltip using `note=`.

This is a type=preserve|text=preserve with note|note=Quoted directly from source, preserve wording|visibility=hidden — it demonstrates a custom tooltip using `note=`.

== Advanced searches ==

&lt;syntaxhighlight lang=wikitext&gt;insource:/\{\{\s*[Cc]orrection/ -insource:/\{\{\s*[Pp]ublish/&lt;/syntaxhighlight&gt;

== test ezprv2 ==

Some article here

{{tl|review}}

== test ==

=== Heading text ===
{{#ifeq:{{PROTECTIONLEVEL:edit}}|sysop|This page is fully protected|}}

== Main page leads test ==


{{Lead article 1}}

{{Lead article 2}}

{{Lead article 3}}

{{Lead article 4}}

{{Lead article 5}}</text>
      <sha1>7yr90wrnswz7m5pkkkngmen6i7ppzzq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Category talk:2016 UK EU referendum</title>
    <ns>15</ns>
    <id>2971261</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008696</id>
      <parentid>4931160</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:46:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Possible move */ reply ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008696</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1548" sha1="a2n2yrge6flds78qppatw2le1iu7fsi" xml:space="preserve">== Possible move ==
{{flag}}
There's been talk on [[Category talk:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]] of renaming this to [[:Category:Brexit]] as it has been used for years for articles less related to the referendum than the general issue. Alternatively, that cat could be created as a parent cat of this and some later articles recategorized out of here. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 01:23, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

:Similar sentiment was expressed by Pi zero at [[Special:Diff/4533179]]. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 22:29, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
::How about creating another category for Brexit, and keeping this as a distinct event, particularly considering the referendum itself can be considered on its own merit to be the focal point of, from my view, five-ish articles? [[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 04:09, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
:::Hello @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] and @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] not sure what to do, I'd suggest keeping both categories. Does this mean the next action item is create and populate [[:Category:Brexit]] ? Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 03:20, 23 November 2025 (UTC)
: I created [[:Category:Brexit]] as @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] advised [[#c-JJLiu112-20230603040900-Heavy_Water-20230508222900|above]] and populated it with several articles.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 23:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>a2n2yrge6flds78qppatw2le1iu7fsi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008697</id>
      <parentid>5008696</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:46:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Possible move */ close flat</comment>
      <origin>5008697</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1551" sha1="k3lf63j603ikjgl8sqzg2yng8mbnv7n" xml:space="preserve">== Possible move ==
{{tl|flag}}
There's been talk on [[Category talk:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine]] of renaming this to [[:Category:Brexit]] as it has been used for years for articles less related to the referendum than the general issue. Alternatively, that cat could be created as a parent cat of this and some later articles recategorized out of here. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 01:23, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

:Similar sentiment was expressed by Pi zero at [[Special:Diff/4533179]]. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 22:29, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
::How about creating another category for Brexit, and keeping this as a distinct event, particularly considering the referendum itself can be considered on its own merit to be the focal point of, from my view, five-ish articles? [[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] ([[User talk:JJLiu112|talk]]) 04:09, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
:::Hello @[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] and @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] not sure what to do, I'd suggest keeping both categories. Does this mean the next action item is create and populate [[:Category:Brexit]] ? Thanks [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 03:20, 23 November 2025 (UTC)
: I created [[:Category:Brexit]] as @[[User:JJLiu112|JJLiu112]] advised [[#c-JJLiu112-20230603040900-Heavy_Water-20230508222900|above]] and populated it with several articles.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 23:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k3lf63j603ikjgl8sqzg2yng8mbnv7n</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Northern Ireland</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>2972354</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008403</id>
      <parentid>4733343</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:51:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].</comment>
      <origin>5008403</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1167" sha1="bnvjzm04bvyrbjk9rptemhpnxneztlt" xml:space="preserve">{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=Northern Ireland}}
[[Image:Northern Ireland in the UK and Europe.svg|200px|center]]
{{Infosection|name=Related articles|
* [[Labour becomes largest party in UK local government after 2023 English elections]]
* [[Sinn Féin becomes largest party in Northern Ireland local government after 2023 elections]]
* [[Archbishop of Canterbury crowns King Charles III in the UK]]
* [[Northern Ireland First Minister Paul Givan resigns over Brexit border checks]]
* [[Loyalists suspected of threatening Irish Foreign Minister with fake bomb]]}}
{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of Northern Ireland.svg|90px|center|link=Category:Northern Ireland]]}}
{{InfoboxEnd}}&lt;noinclude&gt;
An infobox for Northern Ireland and its news. ''Are newer articles not showing? [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} Refresh]''

Customize this infobox '''{{#ifexist:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|[[Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|here]]|{{plainlinks|{{fullurl:Template:Infobox/lookup/{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;preload=Template:Infobox+table/preload}}|here}}}}{{hidden use|Template:Infobox table/preload}}'''.

[[Category:Country infoboxes]]
&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>bnvjzm04bvyrbjk9rptemhpnxneztlt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:Angelicadia/Sandbox/Exchange rates/EUR</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>2980762</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008702</id>
      <parentid>5008177</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:00:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>BOT-Superzerocool</username>
        <id>18821</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Bot: Updating Exchange Rates [[:es:User Talk:Superzerocool|Comments (es.wikinews)]]</comment>
      <origin>5008702</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="581" sha1="5hnpqrso1t3iwiuahlf8c0jp74wd9cc" xml:space="preserve">{{User:Angelicadia/Sandbox/Exchange Rates/core 
| date = 16 April, 2026
| hour= 00:00
| extrainfo= {{{extrainfo|}}}
| align = {{{align}}}
| width= {{{width|{{#if:{{{width|}}}|50%|35%}}}}}}
| country= {{{country}}}
| AUD = 1.645574
| USD = 1.180782
| JPY = 187.528815
| GBP = 0.869962
| CHF = 0.922592
| BRL = 5.896705
| CNY = 8.050866
| MXN = 20.363822
| HKD = 9.248787
| RUB = 89.144503
| INR = 110.269731
| CRC = 541.893684
| ARS = 1604.092122
| CLP = 1045.523871
| BOB = 8.159019
| COP = 4270.769783
| NIO = 43.357893
| PEN = 4.062478
| UYU = 47.490531
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>5hnpqrso1t3iwiuahlf8c0jp74wd9cc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Talk:At least 20 die in Odesa in Russian missile strike, Ukraine reports</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>2990228</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008770</id>
      <parentid>4776854</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:03:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Meduza */ rm flag template</comment>
      <origin>5008770</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4368" sha1="c9rjc60tdc7f3f57iijzxn2e117r4vz" xml:space="preserve">== Spelling? ==

Odessa? [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 01:28, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

:Thank you [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]]. I have [https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Russian_missile_strike_in_Odesa_kills_at_least_21_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=4772000 fixed] it. Regards, [[User:Oleg Yunakov|Oleg Yunakov]] ([[User talk:Oleg Yunakov|talk]]) 23:02, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
::::also spelled Odessa? [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:39, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

== Source?? ==

I wouldn't normally, but since this is a translation from Russian WN, I will let the non-English source article slide.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 21:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

== Review of revision 4772470 [Passed] ==

&lt;!-- Submitted using easy peer review - MediaWiki:Gadget-easyPeerReview.js --&gt; {{peer_reviewed|revid=4772470|copyright=pass|newsworthy=pass|verifiable=pass|npov=pass|style=pass|reviewer=Bddpaux|comments=A valuable contribution.|time=21:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC)}}

== Meduza ==

[[User:Oleg Yunakov]]: So, it was pointed out to me that this article contains a substantial amount of content apparently copied from a translation of the Meduza article cited as a source for the original article on Russian Wikinews. The article here on English Wikinews does not cite that Meduza article, as it should, because not citing it left some statements in the article unverified. But even more seriously, this raises the question of whether doing so constitutes a copyright violation. Translation does not remove copyright restrictions imposed on the pre-translation text, but ''can'' impose further restrictions if an automatic translator is used. Both the Russian and English Wikinews editions license their publications under version 2.5 of the same license, yet I see that the Russian Wikinews article describes the Meduza article as distributed under CC-BY 4.0. Even such a usage, afaik, is a copyright violation by Wikinews since there were updates from 2.5 to 4.0. Moreover, I can't locate anything on Meduza's website that offers information on what license the article's under, aside from a &quot;© Meduza, 2024&quot;, from which I can't determine anything with certainty other than that it isn't in the public domain. If you could shed light on this, that'd be great. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 07:15, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
:*I just noticed the first edit summary, which clarifies that the Russian Wikinews article is supposed to be under CC-BY 4.0 (the author of both editions' articles is the same person); so the incompatibility exists only between Russian Wikinews and English Wikinews if that is indeed the license Meduza's article is under. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 07:48, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
:*Hello, [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]]. Here you go: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/03/08/meduza-is-granting-open-access-to-all-content-about-the-war-in-ukraine-under-a-creative-commons-license [[User:Oleg Yunakov|Oleg Yunakov]] ([[User talk:Oleg Yunakov|talk]]) 11:17, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks. But under [[WN:Copyright]], text on en.wn can only be released under CC-BY 2.5. There is a discussion at [[Wikinews:Water cooler/policy#Update of license|the water cooler]] about the possibility of switching licenses, and one of the suggestions there is switching to CC-BY 4.0, but that is still only under consideration. I know in the past when copyvios were published, they were retracted, but that's a drastic step, so I'll flag the discussion first. [[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]] ([[User talk:Heavy Water|talk]]) 19:19, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
::::The en.Wikinews article fails to meet the terms of Meduza's license by not attributing the original publisher. I'm not certain about the compatibility between CC-BY 2.5 and CC-BY 4.0 licenses, and I don't fully understand the legal nuances of Creative Commons backward compatibility. However, it's clear that our article is non-compliant due to this omission. At a minimum, this article should list the Meduza article as a source and link to the CC-BY 4.0 Deed. The Russian version of the article does. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[:Category:Michael.C.Wright_(Wikinewsie)|Published]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 00:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c9rjc60tdc7f3f57iijzxn2e117r4vz</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Morvellane</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3004505</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008830</id>
      <parentid>4806745</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:28:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Syunsyunminmin</username>
        <id>2843269</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Syunsyunminmin moved page [[User talk:VersedVoyager67]] to [[User talk:Morvellane]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/VersedVoyager67|VersedVoyager67]]&quot; to &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Morvellane|Morvellane]]&quot;</comment>
      <origin>4806745</origin>
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      <text bytes="165" sha1="17a88pzp6r1j5hsp268thdbipbnjmnb" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=VersedVoyager67}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:12, 1 December 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>17a88pzp6r1j5hsp268thdbipbnjmnb</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>User:Michael.C.Wright/maintenance</title>
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      <id>5008716</id>
      <parentid>5007597</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:37:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Remove DPL from event infoboxes */ update to country infoboxes</comment>
      <origin>5008716</origin>
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      <text bytes="3648" sha1="sk2cdtbpzg0tkj712bhgi30oblp59df" xml:space="preserve">{{User:Michael.C.Wright/maintenance/template:header}}

{{Clickable button|Refresh|url=https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}&amp;action=purge|class=mw-ui-progressive}}

[[Special:SpecialPages|SpecialPages]]

== Review queue ==
Pages in the review queue: '''{{PAGESINCAT:Review}}'''

{{#ifexpr: {{PAGESINCAT:Review-High_Priority|R}} &gt; 0|
The following articles are [[:Category:Review-High Priority|time sensitive]], and should be reviewed first; '''not under review''':
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{{#ifexpr: {{PAGESINCAT:Under_review|R}} &gt; 0|
Time-sensitive articles '''now under review''':
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Current review queue, '''not under review''':
&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
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{{#ifexpr: {{PAGESINCAT:Under_review|R}} &gt; 0|
Articles '''currently under review''':
&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
category=Review
category=Under review
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addfirstcategorydate=true
mode=unordered
&lt;/DynamicPageList&gt;|}}

[[Special:TagletReport|TagletReport]] (doesn't 'exist' until viewed, i.e., always red)

== Developing queue ==
Pages in the developing queue: '''[[:category:Developing|{{PAGESINCAT:Developing}}]]'''

&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
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category=Developing
notcategory=Abandoned
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== Disputed, not developing, not stale, not abandoned (No Man's Land)==

&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
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== Check for abandonment ==
[[WN:PROD]]: &lt;nowiki&gt;{{subst:aband}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; if not edited in four days

=== Stale articles  ===

&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
allowcachedresults = true
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&lt;/DynamicPageList&gt;

=== Copyright violations not marked for deletion (mark for deletion after 24 hours) ===

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allowcachedresults = true
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notcategory=Speedy_deletion
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=== Not in typical queues, not disputed, and not OR ===
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=== Abandoned ===
&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
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== Remove DPL from infoboxes ==
=== Country infoboxes w/ DPL ===
&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
namespace=template
allowcachedresults = false
category=Pages using the DynamicPageList extension
category= Country infoboxes
addfirstcategorydate=true
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&lt;DynamicPageList&gt;
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      <sha1>sk2cdtbpzg0tkj712bhgi30oblp59df</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Talk:Nuclear negotiations between US and Iran commence in Muscat, Oman</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>3012813</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008679</id>
      <parentid>5005341</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:15:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Previously identified plagiarism not all addressed */ reply ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008679</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="10365" sha1="7isl57nszmmsvbvziiaaeevftoj64u0" xml:space="preserve">== Copy and pasted content ==
This article appears to have entire statements copied and pasted from [https://www.aol.com/iran-says-wants-fair-agreement-113238669.html this article]. Unfortunately, [[WN:Copyright|Wikinews can't accept that]]. Everything you submit to our site must be your own work. I have moved the article back to the developing queue for further development. 

Please see [https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&amp;project=wikinews&amp;oldid=4850732&amp;action=search&amp;use_engine=1&amp;use_links=1 this page] for exact details. Direct quotes are okay to keep. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:05, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

== Review of revision 4850979 [Passed] ==

&lt;!-- Submitted using easy peer review - MediaWiki:Gadget-easyPeerReview.js --&gt; {{peer_reviewed|revid=4850979|copyright=pass|newsworthy=pass|verifiable=pass|npov=pass|style=pass|reviewer=Gryllida|comments=I am accepting the &quot;numbers approximated in tonne units, instead of original kg units, for readability&quot; note in article for now, as well as short dashes in last sentence of first paragraph. There are no known to me style guides which say no to these items.

If must, the article may be revised within 24 hours.

Thank you for the comprehensive report. Hope to see the April 19 update very soon.|time=10:09, 20 April 2025 (UTC)}}

== Previously identified plagiarism not all addressed ==
{{flag}}
: For flag, see [[#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260406083100-Michael.C.Wright-20250606154500|new comment below]]. 

{{tl|editprotected}}

There is still an unacceptable amount of plagiarized content in the published version of this article. Since it is now edit protected, only an administrator can remove the plagiarism and issue a correction. The following statements must be addressed[https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&amp;project=wikinews&amp;oldid=4853305&amp;action=search&amp;use_engine=1&amp;use_links=1]:

* &quot;...of the 2015 deal, Iran agreed to..&quot;
* &quot;...up to 3.67% purity for the next 15 years...&quot;
* &quot;... IAEA nuclear watchdog reported that...&quot;
* &quot;...that he had instructions to resolve the...&quot;
* &quot;Araghchi had said ahead of the discussions that his country wanted a &quot;fair agreement&quot;&quot; (Copied verbatim from [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g2eggzvjgo the BBC])

As with [[Explosion in Iran's largest port, Shahid Rajaee, heard 50 km away, leaves dozens killed, thousands injured|a previous article published with copyright violations]], I propose the following correction statement be posted after the plagiarism is removed:

&lt;blockquote&gt;This article previously included copyrighted material copied from a source. The content has been removed. Wikinews regrets the oversight.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

—[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:48, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Note: once an article is edit-protected, only administrators can make and sight changes. To remove plagiarism from such pages promptly, the administrator making the edit should also self-sight the change. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::i am happy to self sight after a reviewer notes on the talk page that the edit is ok. ugly approach but at least it would mean the edit is actually checked by another reviewer before being sighted. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 21:26, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

{{outdent|2}}The third paragraph (beginning &quot;According to the provisions of the 2015 deal...&quot;) presents several serious problems:

* Plagiarism / close paraphrasing: The phrase &quot;of uranium enriched up to&quot; is repeated multiple times, verbatim from the IAEA report.
* Original analysis: The note &quot;[numbers approximated in tonne units, instead of original kg units, for readability]&quot; introduces unsourced interpretation, which violates [[WN:NPOV]] and [[WN:OR]].
* Unsupported claim: The sentence &quot;On January 5, 2020, Iran declared...&quot; is not supported by any of the cited sources (though it is verifiable elsewhere).
* Lack of news value: The detailed uranium enrichment figures are highly technical and not covered in any of the six cited journalistic sources. They add little to the story and may mislead readers by overemphasizing technical minutiae.

Any key facts from this paragraph (e.g., enrichment caps under the JCPOA) are already addressed elsewhere in the article. Therefore, removing it would not remove any key facts. 

However, the article is archived, and per [[WN:ARCHIVE]], substantive content edits are not permitted after archival. Removing or significantly rewriting this paragraph would clearly fall under content modification and is therefore not allowed without administrative consensus.

[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] acknowledged the article has issues but declined to act, instead removing edit protection and requesting someone else fix the article. This has significantly disrupted the project’s workflow by placing non-admins in an untenable position: either violate archive policy by editing content, or leave known policy violations in place. This situation could have been avoided had the paragraph been properly reviewed and addressed prior to publication.

I’m willing to help fix this, but an administrator needs to either (a) initiate and implement a consensus-based correction or (b) provide a clear rationale for leaving the paragraph unchanged despite the outlined problems.

I request that another admin review the situation and take appropriate action. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:45, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:I'm going to try to work on this.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 15:08, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::Paragraph 3: Man, that uranium stuff is super crufty for a new article. Lemme think on this for a bit.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 15:15, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
: I have removed the third paragraph entirely, to address the concerns above. I have also updated the correction statement. I have not self-sighted these changes, but may if another reviewer does not. I have down-graded page protection so that a non-admin reviewer can sight, edit, or revert those changes.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:31, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
: The extent of the issues in this article raises broader concerns. Plagiarism was identified prior to publication, as early as April 18, 2025, but was not fully resolved for nearly a year, indicating a breakdown in both the development and review processes. Delays of this length—particularly where plagiarism is involved—are not acceptable for a news organization. Given the project’s [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure]], it is also important that unresolved issues of this nature are not left in the final, read-only record.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:48, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
: I have self-sighted the correction [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 23:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Template:Develop mistakenly added ==

{{tl|editprotected}}
In a recent edit[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Nuclear_negotiations_between_US_and_Iran_commence_in_Muscat,_Oman&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=4857198] the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Develop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template was added to the article, which is already published and therefore should not have the template. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:37, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Develop tag needs to go!!! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:37, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]], still says developing... [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 15:01, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]], @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] not developing anymore. Thanks. Is it broken or something???? [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 21:19, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::removed develop tag. still, someone will need to sight the edit for 'add correction and revise content'. a reviewer can tag me saying it's ok, then i will sight it as currently only a sysop can sight, but i don't want to self sight without someone else checking the edit. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 21:25, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I had hoped another reviewer or admin might step in to sight these changes, to avoid this becoming a back-and-forth between [[User:Gryllida]] and myself. The remaining flagged text appears limited to formal titles and common-use phrases, as shown by the [https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&amp;project=wikinews&amp;oldid=4857952&amp;action=search&amp;use_engine=1&amp;use_links=1 Earwig results]. These do not constitute plagiarism. 

:::In the case of plagiarism, once an administrator has rechecked the revision, it should be sighted without delay. Leaving such corrections unsighted unnecessarily extends public exposure to plagiarized content. While the project itself faces reputational harm, the original contributor and the reviewer who published the material may also face legal risk. Promptly sighting corrections is a basic editorial responsibility, and a necessary step to protect all parties involved. Even self-sighting and asking for a second opinion after-the-fact is better. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:32, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::::ok [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7isl57nszmmsvbvziiaaeevftoj64u0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008680</id>
      <parentid>5008679</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:15:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Previously identified plagiarism not all addressed */ close flag</comment>
      <origin>5008680</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="10368" sha1="snzvkyuv5yfl5wmcrfw0fequkb01o1a" xml:space="preserve">== Copy and pasted content ==
This article appears to have entire statements copied and pasted from [https://www.aol.com/iran-says-wants-fair-agreement-113238669.html this article]. Unfortunately, [[WN:Copyright|Wikinews can't accept that]]. Everything you submit to our site must be your own work. I have moved the article back to the developing queue for further development. 

Please see [https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&amp;project=wikinews&amp;oldid=4850732&amp;action=search&amp;use_engine=1&amp;use_links=1 this page] for exact details. Direct quotes are okay to keep. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:05, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

== Review of revision 4850979 [Passed] ==

&lt;!-- Submitted using easy peer review - MediaWiki:Gadget-easyPeerReview.js --&gt; {{peer_reviewed|revid=4850979|copyright=pass|newsworthy=pass|verifiable=pass|npov=pass|style=pass|reviewer=Gryllida|comments=I am accepting the &quot;numbers approximated in tonne units, instead of original kg units, for readability&quot; note in article for now, as well as short dashes in last sentence of first paragraph. There are no known to me style guides which say no to these items.

If must, the article may be revised within 24 hours.

Thank you for the comprehensive report. Hope to see the April 19 update very soon.|time=10:09, 20 April 2025 (UTC)}}

== Previously identified plagiarism not all addressed ==
{{tl|flag}}
: For flag, see [[#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260406083100-Michael.C.Wright-20250606154500|new comment below]]. 

{{tl|editprotected}}

There is still an unacceptable amount of plagiarized content in the published version of this article. Since it is now edit protected, only an administrator can remove the plagiarism and issue a correction. The following statements must be addressed[https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&amp;project=wikinews&amp;oldid=4853305&amp;action=search&amp;use_engine=1&amp;use_links=1]:

* &quot;...of the 2015 deal, Iran agreed to..&quot;
* &quot;...up to 3.67% purity for the next 15 years...&quot;
* &quot;... IAEA nuclear watchdog reported that...&quot;
* &quot;...that he had instructions to resolve the...&quot;
* &quot;Araghchi had said ahead of the discussions that his country wanted a &quot;fair agreement&quot;&quot; (Copied verbatim from [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g2eggzvjgo the BBC])

As with [[Explosion in Iran's largest port, Shahid Rajaee, heard 50 km away, leaves dozens killed, thousands injured|a previous article published with copyright violations]], I propose the following correction statement be posted after the plagiarism is removed:

&lt;blockquote&gt;This article previously included copyrighted material copied from a source. The content has been removed. Wikinews regrets the oversight.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

—[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:48, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

:Note: once an article is edit-protected, only administrators can make and sight changes. To remove plagiarism from such pages promptly, the administrator making the edit should also self-sight the change. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:34, 13 May 2025 (UTC)
::i am happy to self sight after a reviewer notes on the talk page that the edit is ok. ugly approach but at least it would mean the edit is actually checked by another reviewer before being sighted. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 21:26, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

{{outdent|2}}The third paragraph (beginning &quot;According to the provisions of the 2015 deal...&quot;) presents several serious problems:

* Plagiarism / close paraphrasing: The phrase &quot;of uranium enriched up to&quot; is repeated multiple times, verbatim from the IAEA report.
* Original analysis: The note &quot;[numbers approximated in tonne units, instead of original kg units, for readability]&quot; introduces unsourced interpretation, which violates [[WN:NPOV]] and [[WN:OR]].
* Unsupported claim: The sentence &quot;On January 5, 2020, Iran declared...&quot; is not supported by any of the cited sources (though it is verifiable elsewhere).
* Lack of news value: The detailed uranium enrichment figures are highly technical and not covered in any of the six cited journalistic sources. They add little to the story and may mislead readers by overemphasizing technical minutiae.

Any key facts from this paragraph (e.g., enrichment caps under the JCPOA) are already addressed elsewhere in the article. Therefore, removing it would not remove any key facts. 

However, the article is archived, and per [[WN:ARCHIVE]], substantive content edits are not permitted after archival. Removing or significantly rewriting this paragraph would clearly fall under content modification and is therefore not allowed without administrative consensus.

[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] acknowledged the article has issues but declined to act, instead removing edit protection and requesting someone else fix the article. This has significantly disrupted the project’s workflow by placing non-admins in an untenable position: either violate archive policy by editing content, or leave known policy violations in place. This situation could have been avoided had the paragraph been properly reviewed and addressed prior to publication.

I’m willing to help fix this, but an administrator needs to either (a) initiate and implement a consensus-based correction or (b) provide a clear rationale for leaving the paragraph unchanged despite the outlined problems.

I request that another admin review the situation and take appropriate action. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:45, 6 June 2025 (UTC)
:I'm going to try to work on this.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 15:08, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
::Paragraph 3: Man, that uranium stuff is super crufty for a new article. Lemme think on this for a bit.--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 15:15, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
: I have removed the third paragraph entirely, to address the concerns above. I have also updated the correction statement. I have not self-sighted these changes, but may if another reviewer does not. I have down-graded page protection so that a non-admin reviewer can sight, edit, or revert those changes.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:31, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
: The extent of the issues in this article raises broader concerns. Plagiarism was identified prior to publication, as early as April 18, 2025, but was not fully resolved for nearly a year, indicating a breakdown in both the development and review processes. Delays of this length—particularly where plagiarism is involved—are not acceptable for a news organization. Given the project’s [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure]], it is also important that unresolved issues of this nature are not left in the final, read-only record.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:48, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
: I have self-sighted the correction [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 23:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Template:Develop mistakenly added ==

{{tl|editprotected}}
In a recent edit[https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Nuclear_negotiations_between_US_and_Iran_commence_in_Muscat,_Oman&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=4857198] the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Develop}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template was added to the article, which is already published and therefore should not have the template. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:37, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Develop tag needs to go!!! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:37, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]], still says developing... [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 15:01, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
:@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]], @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] not developing anymore. Thanks. Is it broken or something???? [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 21:19, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
::removed develop tag. still, someone will need to sight the edit for 'add correction and revise content'. a reviewer can tag me saying it's ok, then i will sight it as currently only a sysop can sight, but i don't want to self sight without someone else checking the edit. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 21:25, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:::I had hoped another reviewer or admin might step in to sight these changes, to avoid this becoming a back-and-forth between [[User:Gryllida]] and myself. The remaining flagged text appears limited to formal titles and common-use phrases, as shown by the [https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&amp;project=wikinews&amp;oldid=4857952&amp;action=search&amp;use_engine=1&amp;use_links=1 Earwig results]. These do not constitute plagiarism. 

:::In the case of plagiarism, once an administrator has rechecked the revision, it should be sighted without delay. Leaving such corrections unsighted unnecessarily extends public exposure to plagiarized content. While the project itself faces reputational harm, the original contributor and the reviewer who published the material may also face legal risk. Promptly sighting corrections is a basic editorial responsibility, and a necessary step to protect all parties involved. Even self-sighting and asking for a second opinion after-the-fact is better. —[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:32, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
::::ok [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 11:30, 24 May 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>snzvkyuv5yfl5wmcrfw0fequkb01o1a</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:At1as</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3018887</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008463</id>
      <parentid>4869745</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:44:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>HakanIST</username>
        <id>2143175</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>HakanIST moved page [[User talk:TurkMapper]] to [[User talk:At1as]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/TurkMapper|TurkMapper]]&quot; to &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/At1as|At1as]]&quot;</comment>
      <origin>4869745</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="0btkbfm46y0hujr3oyv6zx8a8ezb6dg" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=TurkMapper}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:52, 19 July 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0btkbfm46y0hujr3oyv6zx8a8ezb6dg</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Raf42</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3028941</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008647</id>
      <parentid>4889188</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:37:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Mfield</username>
        <id>89407</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Mfield moved page [[User talk:Rafaelloaa]] to [[User talk:Raf42]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Rafaelloaa|Rafaelloaa]]&quot; to &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Raf42|Raf42]]&quot;</comment>
      <origin>4889188</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="8ig45q6mqhdks1eilcolxoif8mga7tc" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Rafaelloaa}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:03, 19 October 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8ig45q6mqhdks1eilcolxoif8mga7tc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Talk:United States, Maryland: Baltimore Police Department detective hospitalized</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>3061068</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008742</id>
      <parentid>4964476</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T02:08:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael21107</username>
        <id>2866566</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Edit request - remove geography section */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008742</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2384" sha1="de0l66gbn0hddekw8zn02cbygf6dxg6" xml:space="preserve">

== Review of revision 4964155 [Passed] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4964155
| copyright = pass
| newsworthy = pass
| verifiable = pass
| npov = pass
| style = pass
| reviewer = Gryllida
| comments = Congratulations, article has been published,

Following edits were made 

1) specified location of the state, which i should not have done, as it is nearly major edit that could disqualify me from reviewing

2) re-ordered sentences to say it was accidental crash after actually mentioning the crash

3) fixed some wikilinks

https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/maps/reference/us_regdiv.pdf

following notes were left by reviewer

1) for location of MD please add the following source https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/maps/reference/us_regdiv.pdf and i will sight the edit, please do this now

2) please note for future reference to write slightly longer articles even when a information is not yet available in source, what i did was a rushed ugly hack

thank you for submitting the report, it is appreciated

have a great day
| time = 21:08, December 25, 2025 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:08, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
*Why does this article contain the sentence &quot;Maryland borders Virginia to its south, West Virginia to the west, Pennsylvania to the north, and Delaware to its east, and the national capital Washington, D.C. district to the southwest&quot;? It seems to place a much larger emphasis on the geography than warranted, particularly in such a short article, and could be perceived as padding just to make the article longer. If the article were talking about some kind of police chase that went from state to state, it might be appropriate, but not in this one where the events described did not take place near an interstate border. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 03:25, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
*:It is just because foreigners do not know what this location is. You are welcome to expand the newsy part now, and then remove this sentence, if you wish; and I can sight your edit. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 08:09, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

== Edit request - remove geography section ==

As [[wikipedia:Maryland|Maryland]] is a famous place, does this article really need a section that lists its neighbors? [[User:Michael21107|Michael21107]] ([[User talk:Michael21107|talk]]) 02:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>de0l66gbn0hddekw8zn02cbygf6dxg6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008743</id>
      <parentid>5008742</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T02:10:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael21107</username>
        <id>2866566</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Undid revision [[Special:Diff/5008742|5008742]] by [[Special:Contributions/Michael21107|Michael21107]] ([[User talk:Michael21107|talk]]) Remove my own unwarranted edit request of an archived article</comment>
      <origin>5008743</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2120" sha1="qul1icatd763duqiedrd85opimk66zx" xml:space="preserve">

== Review of revision 4964155 [Passed] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4964155
| copyright = pass
| newsworthy = pass
| verifiable = pass
| npov = pass
| style = pass
| reviewer = Gryllida
| comments = Congratulations, article has been published,

Following edits were made 

1) specified location of the state, which i should not have done, as it is nearly major edit that could disqualify me from reviewing

2) re-ordered sentences to say it was accidental crash after actually mentioning the crash

3) fixed some wikilinks

https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/maps/reference/us_regdiv.pdf

following notes were left by reviewer

1) for location of MD please add the following source https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/maps/reference/us_regdiv.pdf and i will sight the edit, please do this now

2) please note for future reference to write slightly longer articles even when a information is not yet available in source, what i did was a rushed ugly hack

thank you for submitting the report, it is appreciated

have a great day
| time = 21:08, December 25, 2025 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 21:08, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
*Why does this article contain the sentence &quot;Maryland borders Virginia to its south, West Virginia to the west, Pennsylvania to the north, and Delaware to its east, and the national capital Washington, D.C. district to the southwest&quot;? It seems to place a much larger emphasis on the geography than warranted, particularly in such a short article, and could be perceived as padding just to make the article longer. If the article were talking about some kind of police chase that went from state to state, it might be appropriate, but not in this one where the events described did not take place near an interstate border. --[[User:Metropolitan90|Metropolitan90]] ([[User talk:Metropolitan90|talk]]) 03:25, 26 December 2025 (UTC)
*:It is just because foreigners do not know what this location is. You are welcome to expand the newsy part now, and then remove this sentence, if you wish; and I can sight your edit. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 08:09, 26 December 2025 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qul1icatd763duqiedrd85opimk66zx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Talk:Roblox player uncovers cheating, awarded Guinness World Record</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>3066441</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008724</id>
      <parentid>5007131</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:15:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Removing image? */ reply to Lofi Gurl ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008724</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="23097" sha1="n4cy2fi795mdljla8tbcukwrdvhxug1" xml:space="preserve">

== Review of revision 4971109 [Not Ready] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4971109
| copyright = n/a
| newsworthy = n/a
| verifiable = n/a
| npov = Possible [[WN:COI]]. See below
| style = n/a
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = This article raises two neutrality concerns:

# It reads as a promotional profile rather than an independently sourced news report.
# The images were uploaded by [[c:User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]], presumably Delaere, and are reused across multiple language versions of the article.

I also agree with [[User:Taichi|Taichi]] ([https://w.wiki/HPu$ here]) that the article was likely written by Delaere himself, which suggests a potential [[WN:COI|conflict of interest]] due to self-promotion.

:''For my review standards and conduct, see: [[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer#Review_Standards_and_Conduct|my review standards and conduct]]. Unless I place {{tl|Under review}} on an article, I claim no exclusive rights to review or re-review an article. All reviewers are welcome to step in and collaborate to get the article ready for publication.''
| time = 15:19, January 10, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:19, 10 January 2026 (UTC)

== Information and rewrite request ==

Information is requested:

1) I agree that clarification is required from @[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] about image. Who photographed you? The photogramer owns the copyright, and needs to confirm release rights. See Wikimedia Commons home page for details of this requirement. (note from Michael.C.Wright's review above)

2) If you are or you are affiliated with article subject, please clarify. (note from Michael.C.Wright's review above)

Rewrite is requested:

1) Update photo author and licence if the images were not photographed by the uploader. (note from Michael.C.Wright's review above)

2) Edit to [[Special:MyPage]] by the article author to disclose the conflict of interest, if this is the case. (note from Michael.C.Wright's review above)

3) Date is missing in two English language sources. I request that date is added into the first paragraph and is verified by at least two of the provided sources. See [[WN:IP]] for details of this requirement.

Please do these changes immediately, and re-submit for review. Thank you. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 20:52, 10 January 2026 (UTC)

:Hi @Gryllida. I have completed the requested changes:
::1. I have edited my User Page to disclose the COI.
::2. I have added the date (January 7, 2026) to the first paragraph.
::3. I have sent the VRT authorization email for the photos.
:Please review the article. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 17:58, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

== Stale ==

19 November 2025 [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:08, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

:While the GWR record date is indeed November 19, 2025, the news event reported here is the reinstatement of the record following the anti-cheat investigation. This decision and the media coverage (Kotaku, PCGamesN) occurred in January 2026. Therefore, this is current news, not stale. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 18:26, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

== Quinten Delaere ==

It wasn't him it was schlep [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:27, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:48, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

== Is this Even reliable news? ==

i don't think so, Roblox news huh? @[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 12:51, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

== You can't write about yourself  ==

 [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:13, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

:Background An 18-year-old Roblox speedrunner named Quinten Delaere (also known online as kannotlogin) was competing in an official Guinness World Records-linked speedrun event on the Roblox game Ultimate Easy Obby. The challenge was to finish the obstacle course as fast as possible. �
:Wikinews
:🚩 Fraudulent Records Appeared After hours of practice, Quinten set a fast time of 5:48.96 — which he believed should be the record. However, just before the event deadline, three other accounts suddenly posted times about six seconds faster, an improvement that was mathematically impossible under normal gameplay for a run that already had “optimized every corner and jump.” �
:Wikinews
:🔍 Investigation and Evidence Rather than accepting defeat, Quinten launched a detailed investigation into the suspicious runs. His findings included: �
:Wikinews
:Impossible badge timestamps: Some accounts unlocked badges out of logical order, suggesting teleports or hacks. �
:Wikinews
:Missing game-verified indicators: Legitimate runs automatically award a special Guinness World Record gold medal accessory — the suspicious accounts lacked it. �
:Wikinews
:Expired/inconsistent inventory items: Some accounts held items that shouldn’t have been attainable then, hinting at script-enabled unlocks. �
:Wikinews
:Video and frame-by-frame analysis: Quinten calculated theoretical minimum times based on physics and showed the suspect runs were too fast to be real. �
:Wikinews
:🏆 Guinness Reinstates the True Record Armed with this technical evidence, Quinten submitted a report to Guinness World Records. After reviewing it internally, Guinness disqualified the fraudulent times and officially validated Quinten’s run as the true world record, awarding him the certificate. �
:Wikinews
:🎮 Significance This story highlights how a dedicated player used data analysis and meticulous investigation to hold others accountable for cheating and help a major record-keeping organization correct its listings — showing that even in gaming communities, evidence and integrity can make a difference. �
:Wikinews
:If you want more details on how Quinten proved the fraud mathematically or what skills he used, I can break that down too! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:14, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:14, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::User is '''spamming '''talk page with '''ai content'''.
::User fails to realize that the text is writing using legitimate sources.
::A request has been done for a re-write about the article using a different fair opinion.
::This user should stop spamming and rather help us improve the article using legitimate sources as asked. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 13:22, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

== Formal Declaration: COI and Original Reporting ==

Per the request of administrator @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]], I am making this formal declaration to comply with Wikinews policies:

1. '''Conflict of Interest (COI):''' I, Quinten Delaere (User:Kannotlogin), declare that I am the subject of this article. I am the person who performed the speedrun and the forensic investigation described in the text.
2. '''Original Reporting (WN:OR):''' This article is submitted under the [[Wikinews:Original reporting|Original Reporting policy]]. I have direct access to the raw data, evidence, and correspondence with Guinness World Records. I am available to verify any details required by reviewers.

I have also added the {{tl|Original reporting}} template to the main article page. I will refrain from editing the article directly where possible to respect neutrality, and I will await reviewer guidance. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 14:38, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
: Thank you. Because you have identified yourself as a real person, we'll need to verify that. The easiest and fastest way is for you to send an email to Scoop@wn-reporters.org from an email address in your public domain quintendelaere.be identifying that Kannotlogin is Quinten Delaere. 
: OR gets a bit of a break on [[WN:Freshness]] but not [[WN:Source]]. Any statement of fact in the article still needs to be verified. Since you are writing about yourself, we'll need to be incredibly transparent, accurate, and neutral in the article to avoid bias or the appearance of self-promotion. 
: To that end, I strongly recommend you strip motive entirely from the article and report only verifiable actions and claims. For example, I would rewrite the entire third paragraph to something like the following: ''Delaere conducted a digital forensic analysis and compiled a report alleging that the new records were fraudulent. The report cited three technical points.''
: @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]], please weigh in here if you disagree or have other advice.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:02, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for the guidance regarding the Original Reporting policy.
::*I have sent the verification email to ''Scoop@wn-reporters.org'' from my domain address (@quintendelaere.be).
::*I have rewritten some parts of the article to strip all &quot;motive&quot; and strictly report verifiable actions and claims, using the exact phrasing you suggested for the third paragraph.
::*Regarding verification: I cross-referenced the facts in the article with the international sources listed (Kotaku [EN], PCGamesN [EN], JeuxVideo [FR], Meristation [ES], KW [NL]). While some additional sources were removed during previous suggestions by another user, the remaining sources should cover all the technical claims made in the text.
::Best regards, Quinten [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 22:47, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::: An email was received confirming that [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] is Quinten Delaere.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:51, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

== Pre Review ==

{{Pre-review
|evaluated-url=https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Roblox_player_exposes_fraud_to_claim_Guinness_World_Record&amp;oldid=4973611
|status=pass
|updated=
|copyright=
|earwig-permalink=
|newsworthy=pass
|verifiable=pass
|npov=pass
|style=pass
|author-notes=
|reviewer-notes=
|updated-notes=
}}

--[[Special:Contributions/&amp;#126;2026-29099-8|&amp;#126;2026-29099-8]] ([[User talk:&amp;#126;2026-29099-8|talk]]) 10:16, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

== Review of revision 4973865 [Not Ready] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4973865
| copyright = pass
| newsworthy = pass
| verifiable = [[WN:Paywall|Paywalled source]] used. Unsupported &quot;when&quot; in the [[WN:5Ws]]
| npov = n/a
| style = n/a
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = I think we are very close to getting this published. However, the January 7th date is not supported in the four listed, non-paywalled sources. The KW article is behind a paywall and therefore not valid for ''Wikinews.'' Any statements solely supported by it should be removed. I removed two unsupported statements not related to the [[WN:5Ws]] that may have been supported by it. See the edit history for details. 

Without a source supporting that date, the article is stale, per [[WN:Freshness]]. Three of the articles that assert Delaere is finally the official winner were dated [published] ''before'' January 7, implying the Jan. 7 date is incorrect. 

:''For my review standards and conduct, see: [[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer#Review_Standards_and_Conduct|my review standards and conduct]]. Unless I place {{tl|Under review}} on an article, I claim no exclusive rights to review or re-review an article. All reviewers are welcome to step in and collaborate to get the article ready for publication.''
| time = 16:48, January 14, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:48, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] I have updated the article based on your review and placed the {review} tag back.
:#'''Removed Paywalled Info''': I accepted your removal of the KW-sourced details.
:#'''Date &amp; Phrasing''': You are correct that the major sources (Kotaku, etc.) are dated January 6, while the physical certificate was received earlier. To be factually accurate and align with the &quot;Freshness&quot; policy, I rephrased the lead to: &quot;On January 6, 2026, international media reported that Quinten Delaere... had been officially recognized&quot;.
:This ensures the date matches the verifiable sources provided. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 17:24, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

== Review of revision 4974067 [Passed] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4974067
| copyright = pass
| newsworthy = exception
| newsworthy_exception_comment = We don't know the exact date GWR determined it was cheating
| verifiable = pass
| npov = pass
| style = pass
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = Particular care was taken during review to manage the inherent conflict of interest by distinguishing Delaere’s own assertions—all of which are supported by listed sources—from media reporting and from Guinness World Records’ documented actions. While the article synthesizes multiple sources, it introduces no facts beyond those reported by independent publications and aims to present them in a neutral, verifiable manner, with careful consideration for [[WN:COI]].

Upon reconsideration, I am undoing my earlier OR assessment; authorship alone does not constitute original research, and the article does not introduce facts beyond what independent sources report.

Despite being written by the subject, the article is not promotional because it reports only independently published information, clearly attributes assertions, and avoids advocacy or exaggeration, making it a COI-sensitive but policy-compliant synthesis article.
| time = 01:17, January 15, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:17, 15 January 2026 (UTC)

== Award ==

Why is it blurred out? @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:29, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
: That might have been a request from Commons' VRT to conceal the GWR logo and Roblox imagery for copyright reasons. Both images have it.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:05, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
::Yes it was a request from Commons' VRT. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 13:48, 17 January 2026 (UTC)

== Fyi ==

No need to add headings in article body, this should be [[WN:IP|inverted pyramid]] ideally not wikipedia. Cc @[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] regards, [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 12:52, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

== Delete ==

This user seems fishy to me, and he disappeared writes about himself Promotional big time then fights with me for deletion tags. What gives? @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 19:22, 22 January 2026 (UTC)
: The article was published and therefore isn't a candidate for {{tl|Stale}} or [[WN:Speedy]]. 
: I don't believe the article is promotional, as all of the content was already published by the articles listed in the Sources section, making it simply a synthesis article, albeit authored by the main subject of the article. The author was clear and forthright with the conflict of interest statement. They worked with and complied with requests from multiple reviewers. 
: If you have a deletion request that falls under [[WN:DG]], that should be posted following the guidance at [[WN:DR]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:11, 22 January 2026 (UTC)
::Another user pointed out they were promotional and both accounts have been blocked. @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:20, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This story is not notable enough for a news article. @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:51, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
=== Related discussions ===
* [[Wikinews:Deletion requests#Roblox player uncovers cheating, awarded Guinness World Record]]
* [[Category talk:Quinten Delaere#Fishy users]]
* [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#User:Kannotlogin edit warring with me]]
* [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#Check User]]
* [[User talk:Michael.C.Wright#FYI]]
* [[Wikidata:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Kannotlogin]] 
* [[es:Discusión:Jugador de Roblox expone fraude y reclama Récord Guinness]]
[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:05, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

:https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinten_Delaere? [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:49, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

== Claude a.i results on kannotlogin ==

You're right to be skeptical. Looking at the search results more critically, the information does have a promotional quality to it - it reads like polished PR content rather than independent coverage. The sources appear to be press releases or promotional articles rather than investigative journalism.

@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 14:07, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

== Promotional now seen on PL Wikinews ==

https://pl.wikinews.org/wiki/18-letni_Belg_ujawnia_oszustwo_w_Roblox_i_zdobywa_rekord_%C5%9Bwiata

@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:27, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
: You need to report it there.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:33, 27 January 2026 (UTC)

== My 2 cents ==

Yes, the Chinese edition of Wikinews also received a machine-translated submission, which was published after being manually revised locally. That approach was not entirely appropriate; however, when discussing whether there are issues with the article, it would be better to focus on the content of the article itself.

Personally, I don't really believe that “one must not write one’s own article” is an absolute principle. As I mentioned, if there is nothing wrong with the article itself, then at most an appropriate disclosure of interest should be required.

I am not familiar with the subject matter of the article or the relevant community context, but at present it appears to have sources and substantive content, and its news value seems acceptable (albeit niche). Of course, any improper conduct on the part of the author should be addressed separately.

It probably shouldn’t be subject to speedy deletion. Awaiting the outcome of the discussion…   (after all, there are many participants in this discussion, so zhwn should be able to refer to it as well) ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 10:17, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

:Well, the layout and writing style of this article are indeed a bit strange... but perhaps this is something worth reporting in this field? If properly edited, this original material should be useful maybe. ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 10:21, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

== Pre-archive note update ==

{{Flag}}
Before archiving this article, I updated the note at the top. Given the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]], there will not be further opportunity for discussion.

As the reviewer, I have not sighted this change and am seeking brief community confirmation that the note and the article’s final status are acceptable, including that it was written by its subject.

@[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]], @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]], @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]] — please weigh in or sight the change. Once confirmed, I will proceed with archiving.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:52, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

== Removing image? ==

Quinten Delaere holding his official Guinness World Records certificate after the validation of his record.
Image: Kannotlogin.

User doesn't exist? @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 22:59, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
When you click on link of Kannotlogin. Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 23:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

:[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kannotlogin He does indeed exist], just no userpage. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 00:04, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
::He also got a wikinews article about roblox published, i think it's self promotional @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 00:17, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::Shit, really? [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 00:49, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::What is the full story behind this? [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 00:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: The short version is Quinten Delaere is the real name of the user Kannotlogin. They authored an article (this one) for which they are the subject, and provided a [[#Formal Declaration: COI and Original Reporting|formal COI]] as [[#c-Gryllida-20260110205200-Information_and_rewrite_request|requested by Gryllida]]. 
:::: I reviewed and published the article, determining that the article does not state anything that is not already stated in the listed source articles (i.e., nothing original—all statements are supported by independent sources). 
:::: The long version is contained in a number of discussions, most of which are listed and linked [[#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260207160500-Related_discussions|here (above)]]. 
:::: After you've gotten up to speed with all of that, you are very much welcome to weigh in [[Wikinews:Deletion requests#January 22, 2026|on this discussion regarding the proposed deletion of this article]].
:::: As the publishing reviewer, I've done all I plan to do regarding documenting everything. If you, as an independent reviewer, think it should be retracted, I will not oppose that. If you think it can be kept as is, with the note, which is unsighted at the top of the article, then feel free to sight the note. 
:::: If you take either action, I'll then close the request at [[WN:DR]] accordingly and we can move on.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:15, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n4cy2fi795mdljla8tbcukwrdvhxug1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008725</id>
      <parentid>5008724</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:19:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Related discussions */ edit opening comment ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008725</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="23153" sha1="ae7pgo1pw4ad7t58h4vzsabpk55vklm" xml:space="preserve">

== Review of revision 4971109 [Not Ready] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4971109
| copyright = n/a
| newsworthy = n/a
| verifiable = n/a
| npov = Possible [[WN:COI]]. See below
| style = n/a
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = This article raises two neutrality concerns:

# It reads as a promotional profile rather than an independently sourced news report.
# The images were uploaded by [[c:User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]], presumably Delaere, and are reused across multiple language versions of the article.

I also agree with [[User:Taichi|Taichi]] ([https://w.wiki/HPu$ here]) that the article was likely written by Delaere himself, which suggests a potential [[WN:COI|conflict of interest]] due to self-promotion.

:''For my review standards and conduct, see: [[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer#Review_Standards_and_Conduct|my review standards and conduct]]. Unless I place {{tl|Under review}} on an article, I claim no exclusive rights to review or re-review an article. All reviewers are welcome to step in and collaborate to get the article ready for publication.''
| time = 15:19, January 10, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 15:19, 10 January 2026 (UTC)

== Information and rewrite request ==

Information is requested:

1) I agree that clarification is required from @[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] about image. Who photographed you? The photogramer owns the copyright, and needs to confirm release rights. See Wikimedia Commons home page for details of this requirement. (note from Michael.C.Wright's review above)

2) If you are or you are affiliated with article subject, please clarify. (note from Michael.C.Wright's review above)

Rewrite is requested:

1) Update photo author and licence if the images were not photographed by the uploader. (note from Michael.C.Wright's review above)

2) Edit to [[Special:MyPage]] by the article author to disclose the conflict of interest, if this is the case. (note from Michael.C.Wright's review above)

3) Date is missing in two English language sources. I request that date is added into the first paragraph and is verified by at least two of the provided sources. See [[WN:IP]] for details of this requirement.

Please do these changes immediately, and re-submit for review. Thank you. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 20:52, 10 January 2026 (UTC)

:Hi @Gryllida. I have completed the requested changes:
::1. I have edited my User Page to disclose the COI.
::2. I have added the date (January 7, 2026) to the first paragraph.
::3. I have sent the VRT authorization email for the photos.
:Please review the article. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 17:58, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

== Stale ==

19 November 2025 [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:08, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

:While the GWR record date is indeed November 19, 2025, the news event reported here is the reinstatement of the record following the anti-cheat investigation. This decision and the media coverage (Kotaku, PCGamesN) occurred in January 2026. Therefore, this is current news, not stale. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 18:26, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

== Quinten Delaere ==

It wasn't him it was schlep [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:27, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:48, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

== Is this Even reliable news? ==

i don't think so, Roblox news huh? @[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 12:51, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

== You can't write about yourself  ==

 [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:13, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

:Background An 18-year-old Roblox speedrunner named Quinten Delaere (also known online as kannotlogin) was competing in an official Guinness World Records-linked speedrun event on the Roblox game Ultimate Easy Obby. The challenge was to finish the obstacle course as fast as possible. �
:Wikinews
:🚩 Fraudulent Records Appeared After hours of practice, Quinten set a fast time of 5:48.96 — which he believed should be the record. However, just before the event deadline, three other accounts suddenly posted times about six seconds faster, an improvement that was mathematically impossible under normal gameplay for a run that already had “optimized every corner and jump.” �
:Wikinews
:🔍 Investigation and Evidence Rather than accepting defeat, Quinten launched a detailed investigation into the suspicious runs. His findings included: �
:Wikinews
:Impossible badge timestamps: Some accounts unlocked badges out of logical order, suggesting teleports or hacks. �
:Wikinews
:Missing game-verified indicators: Legitimate runs automatically award a special Guinness World Record gold medal accessory — the suspicious accounts lacked it. �
:Wikinews
:Expired/inconsistent inventory items: Some accounts held items that shouldn’t have been attainable then, hinting at script-enabled unlocks. �
:Wikinews
:Video and frame-by-frame analysis: Quinten calculated theoretical minimum times based on physics and showed the suspect runs were too fast to be real. �
:Wikinews
:🏆 Guinness Reinstates the True Record Armed with this technical evidence, Quinten submitted a report to Guinness World Records. After reviewing it internally, Guinness disqualified the fraudulent times and officially validated Quinten’s run as the true world record, awarding him the certificate. �
:Wikinews
:🎮 Significance This story highlights how a dedicated player used data analysis and meticulous investigation to hold others accountable for cheating and help a major record-keeping organization correct its listings — showing that even in gaming communities, evidence and integrity can make a difference. �
:Wikinews
:If you want more details on how Quinten proved the fraud mathematically or what skills he used, I can break that down too! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:14, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:14, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::User is '''spamming '''talk page with '''ai content'''.
::User fails to realize that the text is writing using legitimate sources.
::A request has been done for a re-write about the article using a different fair opinion.
::This user should stop spamming and rather help us improve the article using legitimate sources as asked. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 13:22, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

== Formal Declaration: COI and Original Reporting ==

Per the request of administrator @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]], I am making this formal declaration to comply with Wikinews policies:

1. '''Conflict of Interest (COI):''' I, Quinten Delaere (User:Kannotlogin), declare that I am the subject of this article. I am the person who performed the speedrun and the forensic investigation described in the text.
2. '''Original Reporting (WN:OR):''' This article is submitted under the [[Wikinews:Original reporting|Original Reporting policy]]. I have direct access to the raw data, evidence, and correspondence with Guinness World Records. I am available to verify any details required by reviewers.

I have also added the {{tl|Original reporting}} template to the main article page. I will refrain from editing the article directly where possible to respect neutrality, and I will await reviewer guidance. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 14:38, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
: Thank you. Because you have identified yourself as a real person, we'll need to verify that. The easiest and fastest way is for you to send an email to Scoop@wn-reporters.org from an email address in your public domain quintendelaere.be identifying that Kannotlogin is Quinten Delaere. 
: OR gets a bit of a break on [[WN:Freshness]] but not [[WN:Source]]. Any statement of fact in the article still needs to be verified. Since you are writing about yourself, we'll need to be incredibly transparent, accurate, and neutral in the article to avoid bias or the appearance of self-promotion. 
: To that end, I strongly recommend you strip motive entirely from the article and report only verifiable actions and claims. For example, I would rewrite the entire third paragraph to something like the following: ''Delaere conducted a digital forensic analysis and compiled a report alleging that the new records were fraudulent. The report cited three technical points.''
: @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]], please weigh in here if you disagree or have other advice.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 18:02, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for the guidance regarding the Original Reporting policy.
::*I have sent the verification email to ''Scoop@wn-reporters.org'' from my domain address (@quintendelaere.be).
::*I have rewritten some parts of the article to strip all &quot;motive&quot; and strictly report verifiable actions and claims, using the exact phrasing you suggested for the third paragraph.
::*Regarding verification: I cross-referenced the facts in the article with the international sources listed (Kotaku [EN], PCGamesN [EN], JeuxVideo [FR], Meristation [ES], KW [NL]). While some additional sources were removed during previous suggestions by another user, the remaining sources should cover all the technical claims made in the text.
::Best regards, Quinten [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 22:47, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::: An email was received confirming that [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] is Quinten Delaere.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:51, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

== Pre Review ==

{{Pre-review
|evaluated-url=https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Roblox_player_exposes_fraud_to_claim_Guinness_World_Record&amp;oldid=4973611
|status=pass
|updated=
|copyright=
|earwig-permalink=
|newsworthy=pass
|verifiable=pass
|npov=pass
|style=pass
|author-notes=
|reviewer-notes=
|updated-notes=
}}

--[[Special:Contributions/&amp;#126;2026-29099-8|&amp;#126;2026-29099-8]] ([[User talk:&amp;#126;2026-29099-8|talk]]) 10:16, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

== Review of revision 4973865 [Not Ready] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4973865
| copyright = pass
| newsworthy = pass
| verifiable = [[WN:Paywall|Paywalled source]] used. Unsupported &quot;when&quot; in the [[WN:5Ws]]
| npov = n/a
| style = n/a
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = I think we are very close to getting this published. However, the January 7th date is not supported in the four listed, non-paywalled sources. The KW article is behind a paywall and therefore not valid for ''Wikinews.'' Any statements solely supported by it should be removed. I removed two unsupported statements not related to the [[WN:5Ws]] that may have been supported by it. See the edit history for details. 

Without a source supporting that date, the article is stale, per [[WN:Freshness]]. Three of the articles that assert Delaere is finally the official winner were dated [published] ''before'' January 7, implying the Jan. 7 date is incorrect. 

:''For my review standards and conduct, see: [[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer#Review_Standards_and_Conduct|my review standards and conduct]]. Unless I place {{tl|Under review}} on an article, I claim no exclusive rights to review or re-review an article. All reviewers are welcome to step in and collaborate to get the article ready for publication.''
| time = 16:48, January 14, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:48, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] I have updated the article based on your review and placed the {review} tag back.
:#'''Removed Paywalled Info''': I accepted your removal of the KW-sourced details.
:#'''Date &amp; Phrasing''': You are correct that the major sources (Kotaku, etc.) are dated January 6, while the physical certificate was received earlier. To be factually accurate and align with the &quot;Freshness&quot; policy, I rephrased the lead to: &quot;On January 6, 2026, international media reported that Quinten Delaere... had been officially recognized&quot;.
:This ensures the date matches the verifiable sources provided. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 17:24, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

== Review of revision 4974067 [Passed] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4974067
| copyright = pass
| newsworthy = exception
| newsworthy_exception_comment = We don't know the exact date GWR determined it was cheating
| verifiable = pass
| npov = pass
| style = pass
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = Particular care was taken during review to manage the inherent conflict of interest by distinguishing Delaere’s own assertions—all of which are supported by listed sources—from media reporting and from Guinness World Records’ documented actions. While the article synthesizes multiple sources, it introduces no facts beyond those reported by independent publications and aims to present them in a neutral, verifiable manner, with careful consideration for [[WN:COI]].

Upon reconsideration, I am undoing my earlier OR assessment; authorship alone does not constitute original research, and the article does not introduce facts beyond what independent sources report.

Despite being written by the subject, the article is not promotional because it reports only independently published information, clearly attributes assertions, and avoids advocacy or exaggeration, making it a COI-sensitive but policy-compliant synthesis article.
| time = 01:17, January 15, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:17, 15 January 2026 (UTC)

== Award ==

Why is it blurred out? @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:29, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
: That might have been a request from Commons' VRT to conceal the GWR logo and Roblox imagery for copyright reasons. Both images have it.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:05, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
::Yes it was a request from Commons' VRT. [[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] ([[User talk:Kannotlogin|talk]]) 13:48, 17 January 2026 (UTC)

== Fyi ==

No need to add headings in article body, this should be [[WN:IP|inverted pyramid]] ideally not wikipedia. Cc @[[User:Kannotlogin|Kannotlogin]] regards, [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 12:52, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

== Delete ==

This user seems fishy to me, and he disappeared writes about himself Promotional big time then fights with me for deletion tags. What gives? @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 19:22, 22 January 2026 (UTC)
: The article was published and therefore isn't a candidate for {{tl|Stale}} or [[WN:Speedy]]. 
: I don't believe the article is promotional, as all of the content was already published by the articles listed in the Sources section, making it simply a synthesis article, albeit authored by the main subject of the article. The author was clear and forthright with the conflict of interest statement. They worked with and complied with requests from multiple reviewers. 
: If you have a deletion request that falls under [[WN:DG]], that should be posted following the guidance at [[WN:DR]].[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:11, 22 January 2026 (UTC)
::Another user pointed out they were promotional and both accounts have been blocked. @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:20, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This story is not notable enough for a news article. @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:51, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
=== Related discussions ===
* [[Wikinews:Deletion requests#Roblox player uncovers cheating, awarded Guinness World Record]]
* [[Category talk:Quinten Delaere#Fishy users]] (category since deleted)
* [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts/Archive 13#User:Kannotlogin edit warring with me]]
* [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts/Archive 13#Check User]]
* [[User talk:Michael.C.Wright/Archive 2#FYI]]
* [[Wikidata:Requests for checkuser/Case/Kannotlogin]]
* [[es:Discusión:Jugador de Roblox expone fraude y reclama Récord Guinness]]
[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 16:05, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

:https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinten_Delaere? [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 23:49, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

== Claude a.i results on kannotlogin ==

You're right to be skeptical. Looking at the search results more critically, the information does have a promotional quality to it - it reads like polished PR content rather than independent coverage. The sources appear to be press releases or promotional articles rather than investigative journalism.

@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 14:07, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

== Promotional now seen on PL Wikinews ==

https://pl.wikinews.org/wiki/18-letni_Belg_ujawnia_oszustwo_w_Roblox_i_zdobywa_rekord_%C5%9Bwiata

@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 18:27, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
: You need to report it there.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:33, 27 January 2026 (UTC)

== My 2 cents ==

Yes, the Chinese edition of Wikinews also received a machine-translated submission, which was published after being manually revised locally. That approach was not entirely appropriate; however, when discussing whether there are issues with the article, it would be better to focus on the content of the article itself.

Personally, I don't really believe that “one must not write one’s own article” is an absolute principle. As I mentioned, if there is nothing wrong with the article itself, then at most an appropriate disclosure of interest should be required.

I am not familiar with the subject matter of the article or the relevant community context, but at present it appears to have sources and substantive content, and its news value seems acceptable (albeit niche). Of course, any improper conduct on the part of the author should be addressed separately.

It probably shouldn’t be subject to speedy deletion. Awaiting the outcome of the discussion…   (after all, there are many participants in this discussion, so zhwn should be able to refer to it as well) ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 10:17, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

:Well, the layout and writing style of this article are indeed a bit strange... but perhaps this is something worth reporting in this field? If properly edited, this original material should be useful maybe. ~ [[User:Sheminghui.WU|Sheminghui.WU]] ([[User talk:Sheminghui.WU|talk]]) 10:21, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

== Pre-archive note update ==

{{Flag}}
Before archiving this article, I updated the note at the top. Given the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]], there will not be further opportunity for discussion.

As the reviewer, I have not sighted this change and am seeking brief community confirmation that the note and the article’s final status are acceptable, including that it was written by its subject.

@[[User:Heavy Water|Heavy Water]], @[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]], @[[User:Acagastya|Acagastya]] — please weigh in or sight the change. Once confirmed, I will proceed with archiving.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:52, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

== Removing image? ==

Quinten Delaere holding his official Guinness World Records certificate after the validation of his record.
Image: Kannotlogin.

User doesn't exist? @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 22:59, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
When you click on link of Kannotlogin. Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 23:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

:[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kannotlogin He does indeed exist], just no userpage. [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 00:04, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
::He also got a wikinews article about roblox published, i think it's self promotional @[[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 00:17, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::Shit, really? [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 00:49, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::What is the full story behind this? [[User:Lofi Gurl|Lofi Gurl]] ([[User talk:Lofi Gurl|talk]]) 00:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: The short version is Quinten Delaere is the real name of the user Kannotlogin. They authored an article (this one) for which they are the subject, and provided a [[#Formal Declaration: COI and Original Reporting|formal COI]] as [[#c-Gryllida-20260110205200-Information_and_rewrite_request|requested by Gryllida]]. 
:::: I reviewed and published the article, determining that the article does not state anything that is not already stated in the listed source articles (i.e., nothing original—all statements are supported by independent sources). 
:::: The long version is contained in a number of discussions, most of which are listed and linked [[#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260207160500-Related_discussions|here (above)]]. 
:::: After you've gotten up to speed with all of that, you are very much welcome to weigh in [[Wikinews:Deletion requests#January 22, 2026|on this discussion regarding the proposed deletion of this article]].
:::: As the publishing reviewer, I've done all I plan to do regarding documenting everything. If you, as an independent reviewer, think it should be retracted, I will not oppose that. If you think it can be kept as is, with the note, which is unsighted at the top of the article, then feel free to sight the note. 
:::: If you take either action, I'll then close the request at [[WN:DR]] accordingly and we can move on.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 01:15, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ae7pgo1pw4ad7t58h4vzsabpk55vklm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Talk:Max Scherzer signs deal to return to Toronto Blue Jays</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>3080459</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008677</id>
      <parentid>5005073</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:11:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Correction for paywalled source */ self-sighted</comment>
      <origin>5008677</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4301" sha1="2sp8y3qbddbaicmdaiuu6s5gsysliir" xml:space="preserve">== Really hoping to get this one published ==

@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]], @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]]

I'm focused on writing more positive news, thanks I put up for pre-review for possible feedback! Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 18:31, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

:Hi, what is the date if the event? Please include in first parahraph. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 19:05, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
::Done @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 19:24, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

== Pre Review ==

{{Pre-review
|evaluated-url=https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=MLB_pitcher_Max_Scherzer_comes_to_agreement_on_deal_to_return_to_Toronto_Blue_Jays_says_source&amp;oldid=4991635
|status=pass
|updated=
|copyright=pass
|earwig-permalink=https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&amp;project=wikinews&amp;oldid=4991635&amp;action=search&amp;use_engine=1&amp;use_links=1
|newsworthy=pass
|verifiable=pass
|npov=pass
|style=pass
|author-notes=
|reviewer-notes=
|updated-notes=
}}

--[[User:DrKay|DrKay]] ([[User talk:DrKay|talk]]) 16:37, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

== Review of revision 4991691 [Passed] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 4991691
| copyright = pass
| newsworthy = pass
| verifiable = pass
| npov = pass
| style = pass
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = An easy and quick article to review. Thank you for the contribution!

There was one instance of an unsupported statement regarding Shi Davidi. I'm not sure where the statement came from but I could not find it in the listed sources so I removed it.
| time = 17:57, March 2, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:57, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

:Shi Davidi reported that Max Scherzer is returning to the Toronto Blue Jays on a one-year deal with a low base salary and significant incentives
:@[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 18:19, 2 March 2026 (UTC)
::https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/what-the-max-scherzer-signing-means-for-the-blue-jays/ Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 18:20, 2 March 2026 (UTC)
:first reported by Sportsnet colleague Shi Davidi. @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 18:21, 2 March 2026 (UTC)
::I had to use ai though.
::Perplexity 
::I just searched didn't really use ai for article @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] Don [[User:BigKrow|Don]] 18:22, 2 March 2026 (UTC)
::: [[Category:AI usage declared]] 
::: Please be sure in the future that all output, regardless of its source, whether AI or otherwise is properly sourced. We shouldn't rely solely on the review process to ensure our articles are accurate and verifiable for our readers.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:17, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

== Correction for paywalled source ==

{{tl|flag}}
The News Tribune source article has since been paywalled. When published, I was not aware News Tribune used a paywall. I have issued a correction but not self-sighted at this time. I have also reduced protection to allow a non-admin reviewer to sight, edit, or revert it prior to archival. If it isn't sighted soon, I may self-sight.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:41, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{done}} self sighted. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 23:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Category Toronto? ==

can someone add? @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] [[Special:Contributions/&amp;#126;2026-20994-53|&amp;#126;2026-20994-53]] ([[User talk:&amp;#126;2026-20994-53|talk]]) 12:33, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

:Category:Toronto, Ontario [[Special:Contributions/&amp;#126;2026-20994-53|&amp;#126;2026-20994-53]] ([[User talk:&amp;#126;2026-20994-53|talk]]) 12:34, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{done}} but not sighted, as there is a pending correction that must also be sighted first.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:15, 5 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2sp8y3qbddbaicmdaiuu6s5gsysliir</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:StevenMondaw1</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3081474</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008558</id>
      <parentid>5002972</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:59:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Vandalism */ new topic ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008558</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7283" sha1="96fzw3mzz3y9y7dmld1341ayyv5v89a" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=StevenMondaw1}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 02:47, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

== Gambino Crime Family Soldier John Prestia ==

John &quot;Squeege&quot; Prestia is an member of the Gambino crime family, one of New York City’s historic Five Families of organized crime.
Born on December 25, 1965, Prestia grew up in the Gravesend neighborhood of Brooklyn, an area long known for deep Italian-American roots and, historically, ties to organized crime.

Prestia got involved with Extortion, Gambling, and Loan Sharking Operations on Stillwell Ave in Brooklyn operating with guys like Patsy Marsala, Richard V Gotti, Anthony Ciccone, Vincent Nasso, and more. FBI Surveillance states that he has been seen around other Mobsters in restaurants such as Ponte Vecchio, Michaels of Brooklyn, and others.

John “Squeege” Prestia was associated with New York City nightclub owner Peter Gatien and was frequently seen at clubs such as Limelight and The Tunnel.

Prestia was also connected to gambling operations run by the Café Roma crew on Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn. Café Roma was owned by Rocco Ritorto, a made member of the Gambino crime family and a close associate of Prestia.
Individuals said to have been seen at Café Roma include Primo Cassarino, Anthony Ciccone, Richard G. Gotti, John Prestia, Anthony Pansini, and Vincent Nasso.

The Cafe Roma crew was allegedly involved in various criminal activities throughout South Brooklyn, including extortion, loan sharking, illegal gambling operations, and other rackets. According to a 2006 indictment, Ritorto later sold the café. After the sale, Ciccone was accused of extorting the new owners as part of a gambling machine scheme. [[User:StevenMondaw1|StevenMondaw1]] ([[User talk:StevenMondaw1|talk]]) 03:16, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

:Sorry, deleted that page as it isn't news. Has anything interesting happened recently, like within the last week? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:48, 3 March 2026 (UTC)
::Hi StevenMondaw1
::I left a few notes on this page, please check them out. I suggested to change headline and add sources, and to submit for review when it is ready. Could you please do this now?
::* [[Talk:Brooklyn Mobster Arrested on Violent Rackateering Charges]] 
::Thanks! [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:17, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

== Revision requested: [[Brooklyn Mobster Arrested on Violent Rackateering Charges]] (March 7) ==
Hi All,

Sending this message to all contributors who edited the article recently...

Please resolve the following issues:

1. check tasks flagged at top of the page. require improvement to sourcing: provide at least two sources dated after the event occurred.

2. Provide date more clearly. Is this last Tuesday March 3, 2026? // [[WN:5W]]

3. Write article content in past tense -- change present tense verbs, to past tense. // [[WN:SG]], [[WN:CG]]

4. Add paragraph at the end of the page with basic background what 'Gambino' is. // [[WN:IP|Wikinews:Inverted pyramid]]

5. There is sentence in the text about the suspect having 'denied all accusations'. This should be clarified to specify how this occurred or perhaps add attribution. Did this happen on the date of the Wednesday court hearing mentioned further down the page? // [[WN:Attribution]]

6. Restructure the content of the page to follow [[WN:IP|inverted pyramid]], with more newsworthy/current information at the top, and background information further down the page. This was generally already done however I believe the Wednesday court appearance should be moved further up the page as it happened rater recently. Not yet sure what to do on this.

7. Add attribution for the quote &quot;intends to fight the charges vigorously&quot;. // [[WN:Attribution]]

Please resolve these issues and re-submit for review. I am happy to help with the revision, if desired -- leave me a message if you would like to get help or clarification with some of these changes.

I would greatly appreciate if you could do the changes today.

Thank you!

Regards, --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:42, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

----
This is an automated review notification. You can change your message preferences, including receiving notices only for articles you created or majorly contributed to, or disabling them entirely, at [[WN:EzPR 2025/NP|EzPR 2025/NP]]. -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:42, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

:Hi StevenMondaw1, are you available today to make these edits? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:29, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

== Notice regarding article submissions ==

Several recent submissions you have made, including mafia-focused articles, do not appear to describe a verifiable recent news event and therefore fall outside the scope of what Wikinews publishes.

Wikinews publishes only recent, independently verifiable news written in the contributor’s own words. Please review [[Wikinews:What Wikinews is not|What Wikinews is not]] before submitting additional articles for review.

You have previously been asked about this on your talk page but have not responded. Please engage in discussion before submitting additional articles to the review queue.

If submissions that do not meet these requirements continue to be added to the review queue without addressing these concerns, they may be removed and further administrative action may be taken.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:13, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
: Please also check out [[WN:AI|our AI guideline]]. Both articles appear to be entirely AI generated, which does not conform to the guideline.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:31, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

== Hello ==

Hi @[[User:StevenMondaw1|StevenMondaw1]]

I would like to ask you a favor. Just wondering:

1. What is your first language?

2. Have you checked lemmy? It may be more credible than reddit. https://join-lemmy.org/

Thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Vandalism ==

{{Block|vandalism|24 hours}}

This action is based on a pattern of repeatedly creating similar content, including material that has previously been deleted under this account:

* [[Genovese Crime Family Captain Dean Prestia]]
* [[FBI probe examined alleged Genovese captain’s ties to NYC waste and towing firms]]
* [[Alleged Gambino crime family member John Prestia arrested in racketeering investigation]]
* [[Brooklyn Mobster Arrested on Violent Rackateering Charges]]
* [[Gambino Crime Family Soldier John Prestia]] (deleted four times)

Please use this time to respond here, on your talk page, and address the concerns raised about these articles. Continued issues of this nature after the block, or a lack of engagement, may lead to a longer or indefinite block.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:59, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>96fzw3mzz3y9y7dmld1341ayyv5v89a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008561</id>
      <parentid>5008558</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:05:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Notifying about the review of [[Accused_Mafia_Captain_Walks_Free_After_Racketeering_Trial_Ends_in_Acquittal]]</comment>
      <origin>5008561</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9174" sha1="270cg1raqat54eeomo364utbxyrtuay" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=StevenMondaw1}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 02:47, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

== Gambino Crime Family Soldier John Prestia ==

John &quot;Squeege&quot; Prestia is an member of the Gambino crime family, one of New York City’s historic Five Families of organized crime.
Born on December 25, 1965, Prestia grew up in the Gravesend neighborhood of Brooklyn, an area long known for deep Italian-American roots and, historically, ties to organized crime.

Prestia got involved with Extortion, Gambling, and Loan Sharking Operations on Stillwell Ave in Brooklyn operating with guys like Patsy Marsala, Richard V Gotti, Anthony Ciccone, Vincent Nasso, and more. FBI Surveillance states that he has been seen around other Mobsters in restaurants such as Ponte Vecchio, Michaels of Brooklyn, and others.

John “Squeege” Prestia was associated with New York City nightclub owner Peter Gatien and was frequently seen at clubs such as Limelight and The Tunnel.

Prestia was also connected to gambling operations run by the Café Roma crew on Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn. Café Roma was owned by Rocco Ritorto, a made member of the Gambino crime family and a close associate of Prestia.
Individuals said to have been seen at Café Roma include Primo Cassarino, Anthony Ciccone, Richard G. Gotti, John Prestia, Anthony Pansini, and Vincent Nasso.

The Cafe Roma crew was allegedly involved in various criminal activities throughout South Brooklyn, including extortion, loan sharking, illegal gambling operations, and other rackets. According to a 2006 indictment, Ritorto later sold the café. After the sale, Ciccone was accused of extorting the new owners as part of a gambling machine scheme. [[User:StevenMondaw1|StevenMondaw1]] ([[User talk:StevenMondaw1|talk]]) 03:16, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

:Sorry, deleted that page as it isn't news. Has anything interesting happened recently, like within the last week? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:48, 3 March 2026 (UTC)
::Hi StevenMondaw1
::I left a few notes on this page, please check them out. I suggested to change headline and add sources, and to submit for review when it is ready. Could you please do this now?
::* [[Talk:Brooklyn Mobster Arrested on Violent Rackateering Charges]] 
::Thanks! [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 23:17, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

== Revision requested: [[Brooklyn Mobster Arrested on Violent Rackateering Charges]] (March 7) ==
Hi All,

Sending this message to all contributors who edited the article recently...

Please resolve the following issues:

1. check tasks flagged at top of the page. require improvement to sourcing: provide at least two sources dated after the event occurred.

2. Provide date more clearly. Is this last Tuesday March 3, 2026? // [[WN:5W]]

3. Write article content in past tense -- change present tense verbs, to past tense. // [[WN:SG]], [[WN:CG]]

4. Add paragraph at the end of the page with basic background what 'Gambino' is. // [[WN:IP|Wikinews:Inverted pyramid]]

5. There is sentence in the text about the suspect having 'denied all accusations'. This should be clarified to specify how this occurred or perhaps add attribution. Did this happen on the date of the Wednesday court hearing mentioned further down the page? // [[WN:Attribution]]

6. Restructure the content of the page to follow [[WN:IP|inverted pyramid]], with more newsworthy/current information at the top, and background information further down the page. This was generally already done however I believe the Wednesday court appearance should be moved further up the page as it happened rater recently. Not yet sure what to do on this.

7. Add attribution for the quote &quot;intends to fight the charges vigorously&quot;. // [[WN:Attribution]]

Please resolve these issues and re-submit for review. I am happy to help with the revision, if desired -- leave me a message if you would like to get help or clarification with some of these changes.

I would greatly appreciate if you could do the changes today.

Thank you!

Regards, --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:42, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

----
This is an automated review notification. You can change your message preferences, including receiving notices only for articles you created or majorly contributed to, or disabling them entirely, at [[WN:EzPR 2025/NP|EzPR 2025/NP]]. -- [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:42, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

:Hi StevenMondaw1, are you available today to make these edits? [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 10:29, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

== Notice regarding article submissions ==

Several recent submissions you have made, including mafia-focused articles, do not appear to describe a verifiable recent news event and therefore fall outside the scope of what Wikinews publishes.

Wikinews publishes only recent, independently verifiable news written in the contributor’s own words. Please review [[Wikinews:What Wikinews is not|What Wikinews is not]] before submitting additional articles for review.

You have previously been asked about this on your talk page but have not responded. Please engage in discussion before submitting additional articles to the review queue.

If submissions that do not meet these requirements continue to be added to the review queue without addressing these concerns, they may be removed and further administrative action may be taken.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:13, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
: Please also check out [[WN:AI|our AI guideline]]. Both articles appear to be entirely AI generated, which does not conform to the guideline.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:31, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

== Hello ==

Hi @[[User:StevenMondaw1|StevenMondaw1]]

I would like to ask you a favor. Just wondering:

1. What is your first language?

2. Have you checked lemmy? It may be more credible than reddit. https://join-lemmy.org/

Thanks. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] ([[User talk:Gryllida|talk]]) 09:24, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

== Vandalism ==

{{Block|vandalism|24 hours}}

This action is based on a pattern of repeatedly creating similar content, including material that has previously been deleted under this account:

* [[Genovese Crime Family Captain Dean Prestia]]
* [[FBI probe examined alleged Genovese captain’s ties to NYC waste and towing firms]]
* [[Alleged Gambino crime family member John Prestia arrested in racketeering investigation]]
* [[Brooklyn Mobster Arrested on Violent Rackateering Charges]]
* [[Gambino Crime Family Soldier John Prestia]] (deleted four times)

Please use this time to respond here, on your talk page, and address the concerns raised about these articles. Continued issues of this nature after the block, or a lack of engagement, may lead to a longer or indefinite block.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 20:59, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Revision requested: [[Accused Mafia Captain Walks Free After Racketeering Trial Ends in Acquittal]] (April 15) ==
&lt;div style=&quot;border:2px solid #E8A938;background:linear-gradient(135deg,#FFF9E6 0%,#FEF8F0 100%);padding:1em 1.5em;color:#1a1a1a;margin:1.5em;border-radius:4px;box-shadow:0 2px 8px rgba(232,169,56,0.15);&quot;&gt;

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&lt;div style=&quot;margin-left:64px;&quot;&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:1.1em;font-weight:bold;color:#8B5A00;&quot;&gt;
Hi StevenMondaw1! Thank you for your submission!
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br/&gt;

Your article '''[[Accused Mafia Captain Walks Free After Racketeering Trial Ends in Acquittal]]''' has been reviewed by '''{{User|Michael.C.Wright}}'''. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons for the decision are explained in detail on the [[Talk:Accused Mafia Captain Walks Free After Racketeering Trial Ends in Acquittal|article's talk page]].

&lt;div style=&quot;margin-top:0.5em;&quot;&gt;
You are encouraged to address the issues noted and resubmit the article once the necessary improvements have been made. Please keep in mind that news loses freshness quickly, so making updates in a timely manner will increase the chances of successful publication.
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;margin-top:0.5em;&quot;&gt;
If you need help, feel free to ask at the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/assistance|Water Cooler assistance]], or on the [[User talk:Michael.C.Wright|reviewer's talk page]].
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style=&quot;font-size:0.9em;color:#555;&quot;&gt;
----
This is an automated review notification. You can change your message preferences, including receiving notices only for articles you created or majorly contributed to, or disabling them entirely, at [[WN:EzPR 2025/NP|EzPR 2025/NP]].
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt; -- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:05, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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== Tech News: 2026-10 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W10&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/10|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* Wikipedia 25 [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikipedia 25/Easter egg experiments|Birthday mode]] is now live on Betawi, Breton, Chinese, Czech, Dutch, English, French, Gorontalo, Indonesian, Italian, Luxembourgish, Madurese, Sicilian, Spanish, Thai, and Vietnamese Wikipedias! This limited-time campaign feature celebrates 25 years of Wikipedia with a birthday mascot, Baby Globe. When turned on, Baby Globe is shown on [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikipedia 25/Easter egg experiments/article configuration|~2,500 articles]], waiting to be discovered by readers. Communities can choose to turn Birthday mode on by getting consensus from their community and asking an admin to enable the feature and customize it via [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikipedia 25/Easter egg experiments#Community Configuration Demo|community configuration]] on the local wiki.

'''Updates for editors'''
* [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing|Sub-referencing]], a new feature to re-use references with different details has been released to Swedish Wikipedia, Polish Wikipedia and [[:phab:T418209|a couple of other wikis]]. You can [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing#test|try the feature]] on these projects or on testwiki and [https://en.wikipedia.beta.wmcloud.org/wiki/Sub-referencing betawiki]. Learnings from the first pilot wiki German Wikipedia have been [[:m:Special:MyLanguage/WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing/Learnings|published in a report]]. Reach out to the Wikimedia Deutschland team if you are [[:m:Talk:WMDE Technical Wishes/Sub-referencing#Pilot wikis|interested in becoming a pilot wiki]].
* [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Edit check#Paste check|Paste Check]] will become available at all Wikipedias this week. The feature prompts newcomers who are pasting text they are not likely to have written into VisualEditor to consider whether doing so risks a copyright violation. Paste Check [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Edit check/Tags|tags]] all edits where it is shown for potential review. Local administrators can configure various aspects of the feature via [[{{#special:EditChecks}}]]. [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Edit check/Paste Check#A/B Experiment|Research]] across 22 wikis found that Paste Check resulted in an 18% decrease in relative reverted-edits compared to the control group. Translators can [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslate&amp;group=ext-visualeditor-ve-mw-editcheck&amp;filter=&amp;optional=1&amp;action=translate help to localize] this and related features.
* The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Readers/Reader Experience|Reader Experience team]] will be standardizing the user menu in the top right for all mobile users so that it is closer to the desktop experience. Currently this user menu is only visible to users with Advanced Mobile Controls (AMC) turned on. The only change is that a couple buttons previously in the left-side menu will move to the top right for users who do not have AMC turned on. This change is expected to go out March 9 and seeks to improve the user interface. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T413912]
* Starting in the week of March 2, the emails sent out when an email address was added, removed, or changed for an account will switch to a substantially nicer and clearer HTML email from the prior plaintext one. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T410807]
* Notifications are currently limited to 2,000 historic entries per user, and extend back to 2013 when the feature was released. This is going to be changed to only store Notifications from the last 5 years, but up to 10,000 of them. This will help with long-term infrastructure health and help to prevent more recent notifications from disappearing too soon. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T383948]
* The [[m:Special:GlobalWatchlist|Global Watchlist]] which lets you view your watchlists from multiple wikis on a single page continues to see improvements. The latest update improves label usage experience. The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:GlobalWatchlist|extension]] now allows activating the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Language#Fallback languages|language fallback system]] for Wikidata items without labels in the viewed language, and showing those labels in the user’s preferred Wikidata language if no &lt;code dir=ltr&gt;uselang=&lt;/code&gt; URL parameter is provided. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T373686][https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T416111]
* The Wikipedia Android team has started a beta test of [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Readers/Information Retrieval/Phase 1|hybrid search]] on Greek Wikipedia. Hybrid search capabilities can handle both semantic and keyword queries enabling readers to find what they’re looking for directly on Wikipedia more easily.
* For security reasons, members of certain user groups are [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Mandatory two-factor authentication for users with some extended rights|required to have two-factor authentication]] (2FA) enabled. Currently, 2FA is required to use the group, but not to be a member of it. Given that this model still has some vulnerabilities, the situation will [[phab:T418580|gradually change in March]]. Members of these groups will be unable to disable last 2FA method on their account, and it will be impossible to add users without 2FA to these groups. Users will still be able to add new authentication methods or remove them, as long as at least one method is continuously enabled. In the second half of March, users without 2FA will be removed from these groups. This applies to: CentralNotice administrators, checkusers, interface administrators, suppressors, Wikidata staff, Wikifunctions staff, WMF Office IT and WMF Trust &amp; Safety. Nothing will change for other users. See the linked task for deployment schedule. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T418580]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:27}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:27|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, the issue preventing users from creating an instance in [https://www.wikibase.cloud/ Wikibase.cloud] has now been fixed. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T416807]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* To help ensure [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/MediaWiki Product Insights/Responsible Reuse|fair use of infrastructure]], over the next month the Wikimedia Foundation will implement global API rate limits across our APIs. In early March, stricter limits will be applied to unidentified requests from outside Toolforge/WMCS and API requests that are made from web browsers. In April, higher limits will be applied to identified traffic. These limits are intentionally set as high as possible to minimise impact on the community. Bots running in Toolforge/WMCS or with the bot user right on any wiki should not be affected for now. However, all developers are advised to follow updated best practices. For more information, see [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia APIs/Rate limits|Wikimedia APIs/Rate limits]].
* The Wikidata Query Service Linked Data Fragment (LDF) endpoint will be decommissioned in February. This endpoint served limited traffic, which was successfully migrated to other data access methods that were better suited to support existing use cases. The hardware used to support the LDF endpoint will be reallocated to support the ongoing backend migration efforts. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T415696]
* The new Parsoid parser [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Parsoid/Parser Unification/Updates|continues to be deployed to additional wikis]], improving platform sustainability and making it easier to introduce new reading and editing features. Parsoid is now the default parser on 488 WMF wikis (268 Wikipedias), now covering more than 10% of all Wikipedia page views.
* The process and criteria for [[Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Enterprise#Access|requesting exceptional access]] to the high volume feed of the ''Wikimedia Enterprise'' APIs (at no cost for mission-aligned usecases), [[m:Talk:Wikimedia Enterprise#Exceptional access criteria|have now been published]]. This is to provide more thorough and clearer documentation for users.
* [https://techblog.wikimedia.org/ Tech Blog], the blog dedicated to the Wikimedia technical community [https://techblog.wikimedia.org/2026/02/24/a-tech-blog-diff/ will be migrating] to [[diffblog:|Diff]], the community news and event blog. The migration should be complete in April 2026, after which new posts will be accepted for publishing. Readers will be able to access posts – old and new – on the landing page at https://diff.wikimedia.org/techblog.
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.18|MediaWiki]]

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/10|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W10&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 17:51, 2 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30137798 --&gt;

== New Language Addition ==

&lt;code&gt;English
American
Simple&lt;/code&gt; [[Special:Contributions/&amp;#126;2026-14068-42|&amp;#126;2026-14068-42]] ([[User talk:&amp;#126;2026-14068-42|talk]]) 16:51, 4 March 2026 (UTC)
== Wikinews to stay open ==

the board has withdrawn from closing wikinews as reported on Russian wikinews. Great news! @[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] @[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 13:04, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

:Wow. Do you have any links? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 17:26, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
::https://ru.wikinews.org/wiki/Рабочая_группа,_предлагавшая_закрытие_Викиновостей,_расформирована @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 19:46, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
:::please use a translator. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 19:46, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
::::As a non-Russian speaker, using DuckDuckGo doesn't support your conclusion. It is true that the task force was shuttered, but that is common for tasks forces: they complete their mission to greater or lesser extent and then are dissolved. From what I can glean from your link, I don't see anyone saying that the WMF have decided against shuttering Wikinews. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:26, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Yeah:I think you may be right. 'Disbanded' is for the Task Force itself. I thought a decision was set to be reached in December '25 -- any such decision yet?--[[User:Bddpaux|Bddpaux]] ([[User talk:Bddpaux|talk]]) 19:12, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
::::: No decision has been made yet, but the Board now expects to discuss the matter during their next board meeting on March 30. See [[#WMF Board of Trustees to meet March 30]] below.[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:20, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

== Tech News: 2026-11 ==

&lt;section begin=&quot;technews-2026-W11&quot;/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;
Latest '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|tech news]]''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/11|Translations]] are available.

'''Weekly highlight'''
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/Server switch|All wikis will be read-only]] for a few minutes on Wednesday, 25 March 2026 at [https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1774450800 15:00 UTC]. This is for the datacenter server switchover backup tests, [[wikitech:Deployments/Yearly calendar|which happen twice a year]]. During the switchover, all Wikimedia website traffic is shifted from one primary data center to the backup data center to test availability and prevent service disruption even in emergencies.
* Last week, all wikis had 2 hours of read-only time, and extended unavailability for user-scripts and gadgets. This was due to a security incident which has since been resolved. Work is ongoing to prevent re-occurrences. For current information please see the [[m:Steward's noticeboard#Statement on Meta about today's user script security incident|post on the Stewards' noticeboard]] ([[m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation/Product and Technology/Product Safety and Integrity/March 2026 User Script Incident|translations]]).

'''Updates for editors'''
* Users facing multiple blocks on mobile will now see the reasons for each block separately, instead of a generic message. This helps them understand why they are blocked and what steps they can take to resolve the issue. For example, users affected for using common VPNs (such as [[Special:MyLanguage/Apple iCloud Private Relay|iCloud Private Relay]]) will receive clearer guidance on what they need to do to start editing again. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T357118]
* Later this week, [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/VisualEditor/Suggestion Mode|Suggestion Mode]] will become available as a beta feature within the visual editor at all Wikipedias. This feature proactively suggests various types of actions that people can consider taking to improve Wikipedia articles, and learn about related guidelines. The feature is locally configurable, and can also be locally expanded with custom Suggestions. Current settings can be seen at [[Special:EditChecks]] and there are [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Suggestion mode#For administrators %E2%80%93 local customization|instructions for how administrators can customize]] the links to point to local guidelines. The feature is connected to [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Edit check|Edit check]] which suggests improvements while someone is writing new content. In the future, the Editing team plans to evaluate the feature's impact with newcomers through a controlled experiment. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T404600]
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] View all {{formatnum:23}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:23|task|tasks}} that were [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Recently resolved community tasks|resolved last week]]. For example, the issue where the cursor became misaligned during the use of CodeMirror’s syntax highlighting, which makes wikitext and code easier to read, has now been fixed. This problem specifically affected users who defined a font rule in a custom stylesheet while creating a new topic with DiscussionTools. [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T418793]

'''Updates for technical contributors'''
* API rate limiting update: To help ensure [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/MediaWiki Product Insights/Responsible Reuse|fair use of infrastructure]], global API rate limits will be applied this week to requests without a compliant User-Agent that originate from outside Toolforge/WMCS and to unauthenticated requests made from web browsers. Higher limits will be applied to identified traffic in April. Bots running in Toolforge/WMCS or with the bot user right on any wiki should not be affected for now. However, all developers are advised to follow updated best practices. For more information, see [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia APIs/Rate limits|Wikimedia APIs/Rate limits]].
* The new GraphQL API has been released. The API was developed as a flexible alternative to select features of the Wikidata Query Service (WDQS), to improve developer experience and foster adaptability, and efficient data access. Try it out and [[d:Wikidata:Wikibase GraphQL#Feedback and development|give feedback]]. You can also [https://greatquestion.co/wikimediadeutschland/GraphQLAPI/apply sign up for usability tests].
* The [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Product and Technology Advisory Council/Unsupported Tools Working Group|PTAC Unsupported Tools Working Group]] continued improvements to [[commons:Special:MyLanguage/Commons:Video2commons#|Video2Commons]] in February, with fixes addressing authentication errors, large-file handling, task queue visibility, and clearer upload behavior. Work is still ongoing in some areas, including changes related to deprecated server-side uploads. Read [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Product and Technology Advisory Council/Unsupported Tools Working Group#February 2026|this update]] to learn more.
* [[File:Reload icon with two arrows.svg|12px|link=|class=skin-invert|Recurrent item]] Detailed code updates later this week: [[mw:MediaWiki 1.46/wmf.19|MediaWiki]]

'''In depth'''
* The Article Guidance team invites experienced Wikipedia editors from selected [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Article guidance/Pilot wikis and collaborators#Collaborators|pilot wikis]] and interested contributors from other Wikipedias to fill out this questionnaire which is available in [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfmLeVWnxmsCbPoI_UF2jyRcn73WRGWCVPHzerXb4Cz97X_Ag/viewform English], [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd6rzr4XXQw8r4024fE3geTPFe13M_6w7Mitj-YJi0sOlWTAw/viewform?usp=header Arabic], [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdok3-RfB18lcugYTUMGkpwmqG_8p760Wv4dCXitOXOszjUDw/viewform?usp=header Bengali], [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfjTfYp4jEo0akA4B1e-Nfg3QZPCudUjhJzHzzDi6AHyAaMGA/viewform?usp=header Japanese], [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScteVoI29Aue4xc72dekk-6RYtvmMgQxzMI900UOawrFrSTWg/viewform?usp=header Portuguese], [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSetdxnYwL3ub2vqA7awCg5hJZPMIYcDPaiTe12rY9h0GYnVlw/viewform?usp=header Persian], and [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScNvfJF-Ot-4pzA4qAN771_0QDJ4Li19YcUsaTgSKW8Nc7U_Q/viewform?usp=header Turkish]. Your answers will help the team customize guidance for less experienced editors and help them learn community policies and practices while creating an article. Learn more [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Article guidance|on the project page]].

'''''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News|Tech news]]''' prepared by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/Writers|Tech News writers]] and posted by [[m:Special:MyLanguage/User:MediaWiki message delivery|bot]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News#contribute|Contribute]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2026/11|Translate]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Tech|Get help]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Talk:Tech/News|Give feedback]]&amp;nbsp;• [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Tech ambassadors|Subscribe or unsubscribe]].''
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;section end=&quot;technews-2026-W11&quot;/&gt;

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot;&gt;[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]&lt;/bdi&gt; 18:52, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:STei (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Tech_ambassadors&amp;oldid=30213008 --&gt;

== WMF Board of Trustees to meet March 30 ==

One of the Board members, [[User talk:LLosa (WMF)#c-LLosa_(WMF)-20260316100700-Gryllida-20260215231900|recently provided an update]] on the SPTF recommendation to close Wikinews. No decision has been made yet, but the Board now expects to discuss the matter during their next board meeting on March 30.

They plan to update us via Meta and/or diff, and at our Water cooler (village pump).[[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 13:19, 16 March 2026 (UTC)</text>
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        <username>Neriah</username>
        <id>2815768</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Neriah moved page [[User talk:Omrfkk]] to [[User talk:Omer Faruk Baltaci]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Omrfkk|Omrfkk]]&quot; to &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Omer Faruk Baltaci|Omer Faruk Baltaci]]&quot;</comment>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:48, 12 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>3091494</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008295</id>
      <parentid>5008045</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:48:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Place under review.</comment>
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      <text bytes="3888" sha1="3bc6ns17n3xim4hxghpxygs3gn312xa" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz to prevent other countries trading with Iranian ports in the area and to further weaken the Iranian regime. According to the US Central Command, the blockade will start at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

Trump announced the blockade via a Truth Social post. &quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be blockading any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. The blockade occurs in the aftermath of failed peace talks between the United States and Iran over the weekend in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices have increased to over $100 a barrel in the aftermath of news of the blockade, and gas prices have also increased.

Iran has dismissed the blockade, with parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf sarcastically telling Americans on X to &quot;enjoy the current pump figures&quot; and stated that with the &quot;so-called blockade,&quot; Americans would be &quot;nostalgic for $4-$5 gas.&quot; He further denied that the blockade would impact Iran and stated that it would retaliate if the United States escalated.

China has expressed their wish for the ceasefire to be maintained. The spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Chinese government is willing to work with other countries to maintain the continued flow of oil supplies in the Strait of Hormuz, and have stated that the maintence of stability in the strait is of &quot;paramount importance&quot; to China. 

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008297</id>
      <parentid>5008295</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:50:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>normalize link</comment>
      <origin>5008297</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3901" sha1="8iyaudy08k4xu1toeihqn1giwuvks7z" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz to prevent other countries trading with Iranian ports in the area and to further weaken the Iranian regime. According to the US Central Command, the blockade will start at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

Trump announced the blockade via a Truth Social post. &quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be blockading any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. The blockade occurs in the aftermath of failed peace talks between the United States and Iran over the weekend in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices have increased to over $100 a barrel in the aftermath of news of the blockade, and gas prices have also increased.

Iran has dismissed the blockade, with parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf sarcastically telling Americans on X to &quot;enjoy the current pump figures&quot; and stated that with the &quot;so-called blockade,&quot; Americans would be &quot;nostalgic for $4-$5 gas.&quot; He further denied that the blockade would impact Iran and stated that it would retaliate if the United States escalated.

China has expressed their wish for the ceasefire to be maintained. The spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Chinese government is willing to work with other countries to maintain the continued flow of oil supplies in the Strait of Hormuz, and have stated that the maintence of stability in the strait is of &quot;paramount importance&quot; to China. 

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
      <sha1>8iyaudy08k4xu1toeihqn1giwuvks7z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008300</id>
      <parentid>5008297</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:10:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as verified. Answer 'where' announcement was made. Remove unsupported analysis (no listed source supports that Trump mentioned why the blockade was imposed).</comment>
      <origin>5008300</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4007" sha1="gd2axhx1fj9kwasnqmquz0t93qitjty" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz|source2=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4|focal_event=1}} According to the US Central Command, the blockade will start at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be blockading any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. The blockade occurs in the aftermath of failed peace talks between the United States and Iran over the weekend in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices have increased to over $100 a barrel in the aftermath of news of the blockade, and gas prices have also increased.

Iran has dismissed the blockade, with parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf sarcastically telling Americans on X to &quot;enjoy the current pump figures&quot; and stated that with the &quot;so-called blockade,&quot; Americans would be &quot;nostalgic for $4-$5 gas.&quot; He further denied that the blockade would impact Iran and stated that it would retaliate if the United States escalated.

China has expressed their wish for the ceasefire to be maintained. The spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Chinese government is willing to work with other countries to maintain the continued flow of oil supplies in the Strait of Hormuz, and have stated that the maintence of stability in the strait is of &quot;paramount importance&quot; to China. 

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
      <sha1>gd2axhx1fj9kwasnqmquz0t93qitjty</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008301</id>
      <parentid>5008300</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:13:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Guardian reports that Trump announced the 10a effective time.</comment>
      <origin>5008301</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3996" sha1="s1ndnd9yar76h8vx1ujh70mhfwv4uu5" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz|source2=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4|focal_event=1}} According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be blockading any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. The blockade occurs in the aftermath of failed peace talks between the United States and Iran over the weekend in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices have increased to over $100 a barrel in the aftermath of news of the blockade, and gas prices have also increased.

Iran has dismissed the blockade, with parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf sarcastically telling Americans on X to &quot;enjoy the current pump figures&quot; and stated that with the &quot;so-called blockade,&quot; Americans would be &quot;nostalgic for $4-$5 gas.&quot; He further denied that the blockade would impact Iran and stated that it would retaliate if the United States escalated.

China has expressed their wish for the ceasefire to be maintained. The spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Chinese government is willing to work with other countries to maintain the continued flow of oil supplies in the Strait of Hormuz, and have stated that the maintence of stability in the strait is of &quot;paramount importance&quot; to China. 

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
      <sha1>s1ndnd9yar76h8vx1ujh70mhfwv4uu5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008302</id>
      <parentid>5008301</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:14:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Capitalize as the source does.</comment>
      <origin>5008302</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4243" sha1="1qgvu7yx0jxfuaonlvltln5yh7pnesx" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz|source2=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4|focal_event=1}} According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}} 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared.{{Verify|source1=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4}} The blockade occurs in the aftermath of failed peace talks between the United States and Iran over the weekend in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices have increased to over $100 a barrel in the aftermath of news of the blockade, and gas prices have also increased.

Iran has dismissed the blockade, with parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf sarcastically telling Americans on X to &quot;enjoy the current pump figures&quot; and stated that with the &quot;so-called blockade,&quot; Americans would be &quot;nostalgic for $4-$5 gas.&quot; He further denied that the blockade would impact Iran and stated that it would retaliate if the United States escalated.

China has expressed their wish for the ceasefire to be maintained. The spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Chinese government is willing to work with other countries to maintain the continued flow of oil supplies in the Strait of Hormuz, and have stated that the maintence of stability in the strait is of &quot;paramount importance&quot; to China. 

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008303</id>
      <parentid>5008302</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:21:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Make past tense. copy edit. For accuracy, add that oil prices later eased back, as reported by the Guardian article.</comment>
      <origin>5008303</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4382" sha1="r6o7fwbdt1khvzohcgki2aq309rl0c1" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz|source2=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4|focal_event=1}} According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}} 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared.{{Verify|source1=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4}} The blockade was imposed following the collapse of weekend peace talks between the United States and Iran in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}}

Iran has dismissed the blockade, with parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf sarcastically telling Americans on X to &quot;enjoy the current pump figures&quot; and stated that with the &quot;so-called blockade,&quot; Americans would be &quot;nostalgic for $4-$5 gas.&quot; He further denied that the blockade would impact Iran and stated that it would retaliate if the United States escalated.

China has expressed their wish for the ceasefire to be maintained. The spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Chinese government is willing to work with other countries to maintain the continued flow of oil supplies in the Strait of Hormuz, and have stated that the maintence of stability in the strait is of &quot;paramount importance&quot; to China. 

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
      <sha1>r6o7fwbdt1khvzohcgki2aq309rl0c1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008304</id>
      <parentid>5008303</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:26:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>remove commentary (sarcastically). Correct the misquote, Ghalibaf did not single out 'Americans' according to TOI</comment>
      <origin>5008304</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4498" sha1="plya56spk9nazvspmzp8dp0x1py1gl6" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz|source2=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4|focal_event=1}} According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}} 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared.{{Verify|source1=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4}} The blockade was imposed following the collapse of weekend peace talks between the United States and Iran in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}}

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called ‘blockade’, soon you’ll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot;{{Verify|source1=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms}} He further denied that the blockade would impact Iran and stated that it would retaliate if the United States escalated.

China has expressed their wish for the ceasefire to be maintained. The spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Chinese government is willing to work with other countries to maintain the continued flow of oil supplies in the Strait of Hormuz, and have stated that the maintence of stability in the strait is of &quot;paramount importance&quot; to China. 

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
      <sha1>plya56spk9nazvspmzp8dp0x1py1gl6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008306</id>
      <parentid>5008304</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:31:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>According to TOI, he denied &quot;threats&quot; would have no effect, not the blockade. Improve for accuracy; Ghalibaf not only said Iran would respond to attacks, but they would respond to logic...</comment>
      <origin>5008306</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4762" sha1="lthv4nq1l84mv8oei5ikc1js5sl43eq" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz|source2=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4|focal_event=1}} According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}} 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared.{{Verify|source1=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4}} The blockade was imposed following the collapse of weekend peace talks between the United States and Iran in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}}

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called ‘blockade’, soon you’ll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot;{{Verify|source1=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms}} He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would “deal with logic” if approached constructively.{{Verify|source1=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms}}

China has expressed their wish for the ceasefire to be maintained. The spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the Chinese government is willing to work with other countries to maintain the continued flow of oil supplies in the Strait of Hormuz, and have stated that the maintence of stability in the strait is of &quot;paramount importance&quot; to China. 

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
      <sha1>lthv4nq1l84mv8oei5ikc1js5sl43eq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008309</id>
      <parentid>5008306</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:42:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Improve. I think &quot;oil supplies&quot; is too specific given the quote stated &quot;energy suplies&quot;, therefore use quote. Rephrase for accuracy.</comment>
      <origin>5008309</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4803" sha1="0frtllttlpr765q2e4vss7a2fye37lu" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz|source2=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4|focal_event=1}} According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}} 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared.{{Verify|source1=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4}} The blockade was imposed following the collapse of weekend peace talks between the United States and Iran in Islamabad. According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}}

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called ‘blockade’, soon you’ll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot;{{Verify|source1=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms}} He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would “deal with logic” if approached constructively.{{Verify|source1=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms}}

China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.{{Verify|source1=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/}}

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
      <sha1>0frtllttlpr765q2e4vss7a2fye37lu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008310</id>
      <parentid>5008309</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:46:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Re-order paragraphs for [[WN:IP]]</comment>
      <origin>5008310</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4807" sha1="slwqrldrpdhicj9gpxs30dmcynwhuhw" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz|source2=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4|focal_event=1}} According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}} 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of weekend peace talks between the United States and Iran in Islamabad. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.{{Verify|source1=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz}}

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared.{{Verify|source1=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4}} 

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called ‘blockade’, soon you’ll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot;{{Verify|source1=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms}} He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would “deal with logic” if approached constructively.{{Verify|source1=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms}}

China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.{{Verify|source1=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/}}

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
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{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of weekend peace talks between the United States and Iran in Islamabad. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called ‘blockade’, soon you’ll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would “deal with logic” if approached constructively.

China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
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{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of weekend peace talks between the United States and Iran in Islamabad. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called 'blockade', soon you'll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would &quot;deal with logic&quot; if approached constructively.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
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{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of talks held in Islamabad between the United States and Iran. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called 'blockade', soon you'll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would &quot;deal with logic&quot; if approached constructively.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
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{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of talks held in Islamabad between the United States and Iran. 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called 'blockade', soon you'll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would &quot;deal with logic&quot; if approached constructively.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]</text>
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{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of talks held in Islamabad between the United States and Iran. 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called 'blockade', soon you'll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would &quot;deal with logic&quot; if approached constructively.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]
[[Category:Energy]]</text>
      <sha1>4qzfiymic6wp4uvbjx5eisbq8w24n1p</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008316</id>
      <parentid>5008315</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:55:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>added [[Category:Economy and business]] using [[Help:Gadget-HotCat|HotCat]]</comment>
      <origin>5008316</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3716" sha1="j05c62ksuizc87tlg41tgmsmh245djg" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of talks held in Islamabad between the United States and Iran. 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above $100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over $99; gas prices also increased.

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called 'blockade', soon you'll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would &quot;deal with logic&quot; if approached constructively.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]
[[Category:Energy]]
[[Category:Economy and business]]</text>
      <sha1>j05c62ksuizc87tlg41tgmsmh245djg</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008317</id>
      <parentid>5008316</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:56:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Specify US dollar, per [[WN:SG]]</comment>
      <origin>5008317</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3722" sha1="3u9rv6cj7q7wmtrqaqxhooiq74q5n5m" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of talks held in Islamabad between the United States and Iran. 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above US$100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over US$99; gas prices also increased.

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called 'blockade', soon you'll be nostalgic for US$4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would &quot;deal with logic&quot; if approached constructively.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]
[[Category:Energy]]
[[Category:Economy and business]]</text>
      <sha1>3u9rv6cj7q7wmtrqaqxhooiq74q5n5m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008318</id>
      <parentid>5008317</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:57:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>don't edit quote</comment>
      <origin>5008318</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3720" sha1="ahpm0wjt0jq9bykgv5bhx08xyde21qr" xml:space="preserve">{{under review}}
{{review}}
{{date|13 April 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of talks held in Islamabad between the United States and Iran. 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above US$100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over US$99; gas prices also increased.

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called 'blockade', soon you'll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would &quot;deal with logic&quot; if approached constructively.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]
[[Category:Energy]]
[[Category:Economy and business]]</text>
      <sha1>ahpm0wjt0jq9bykgv5bhx08xyde21qr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008320</id>
      <parentid>5008318</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:00:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Publishing the article. (via [[WN:EzPR_2025|EasyPeerReview 2025]])</comment>
      <origin>5008320</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3706" sha1="imk7tffbre1grci9adjdurcztgg3mjb" xml:space="preserve">{{Date|April 15, 2026}}
{{Politics and conflicts}}
[[File:Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg|thumb|left|alt=Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. |Map depicting the Strait of Hormuz. {{image|[[c:User:Goran_tek-en|Goran_tek-en]]}}]]

On Sunday, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC). 

The blockade was imposed following the collapse of talks held in Islamabad between the United States and Iran. 

&quot;Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will be BLOCKADING any and all ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz,&quot; Trump declared. 

According to ''The Guardian'', oil prices briefly rose above US$100 a barrel following news of the blockade, before easing back to just over US$99; gas prices also increased.

Iranian parliament speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf posted on X to &quot;Enjoy the current pump figures. With the so-called 'blockade', soon you'll be nostalgic for $4–$5 gas.&quot; He further stated that Iran would respond in kind to both escalation and diplomacy, warning that it would &quot;fight&quot; if confronted militarily but would &quot;deal with logic&quot; if approached constructively.

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed hope that the ceasefire would remain stable, stating that Beijing is willing to cooperate with all parties to &quot;guarantee the uninterrupted flow of energy supplies,&quot; and that stability in the Strait of Hormuz is critically important to China.

{{haveyoursay}}

==Sources==
*{{source
|url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
|title=Oil price tops $100 a barrel after peace talks fail and Trump orders blockade
|author=Julia Kollewe
|pub=The Guardian
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094025/https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/13/oil-price-tops-100-dollars-barrel-us-blockade-strait-of-hormuz
}}
*{{source
|url=https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
|title=Oil surges past $100 a barrel after US-Iran peace talks fail and Trump threatens to blockade the Strait of Hormuz
|author=Lauren Edmonds, Huileng Tan, and Theron Mohamed
|pub=Business Insider
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}
*{{source
|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
|title='Enjoy it now:' Iran warns of painful oil price surge as Trump escalates blockade threat
|pub=The Times of India
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260413094735/https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/enjoy-it-now-iran-warns-of-painful-oil-price-surge-as-trump-escalates-blockade-threat/articleshow/130224254.cms
}}
*{{source
|url=https://iranwire.com/en/news/151161-china-reacts-to-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-global-energy-security-at-risk/
|title=China Reacts to Strait of Hormuz Blockade: Global Energy Security at Risk
|pub=IranWire
|date=13 April 2026
|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20260414101411/https://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-surge-failed-us-iran-peace-talks-trumps-blockade-2026-4
}}

{{Publish}}

[[Category:Politics and conflicts]]
[[Category:United States]]
[[Category:Iran]]
[[Category:Middle East]]
[[Category:North America]]
[[Category:Donald Trump]]
[[Category:Energy]]
[[Category:Economy and business]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Talk:United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>3091573</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008319</id>
      <parentid>5008004</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:00:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Review of revision 5008318</comment>
      <origin>5008319</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2676" sha1="fgrnzsc8sjpvyl8klhux8vzctm95nd0" xml:space="preserve">==While waiting for review==
While waiting for review, consider addressing the following:

* '''Attribution vs assertion:''' The lede states:
** &quot;the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz...&quot;
:While the sentence begins with &quot;...Trump has announced...&quot;, the structure risks reading as a statement of fact. Consider separating or repeating attribution (e.g., &quot;Trump announced...&quot; / &quot;He said...&quot;) to clearly distinguish the announcement and its stated intent.

* '''Tone:'''
** &quot;Ghalibaf scoffing at the blockade...&quot;
:&quot;Scoffing&quot; is editorial; use neutral wording (e.g., &quot;said&quot; or &quot;responded dismissively&quot;).

* '''Claims vs facts:'''
** &quot;the blockade will start at 10:00AM ET...&quot;
:Ensure this is clearly attributed, not presented as independently verified.

* '''Causation:'''
** &quot;Oil prices have increased... in the aftermath of news of the blockade...&quot;
:Avoid implied causation; attribute the observation to a qualified source where possible (or the reporting outlet if necessary), or as a last resort, use neutral phrasing such as &quot;following the announcement&quot; or &quot;amid reports&quot;.

* '''Balance:'''
:Currently limited to US + Iran. Consider adding third-party or contextual viewpoints if available.

* '''Minor:'''
** &quot;has announced&quot; → &quot;announced&quot; [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 17:50, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{ping|Michael.C.Wright}} The start time of the blockade is already attributed to the US Central Command. Other than that I have applied the feedback for the most part. [[User:CheatCodes4ever|Cheat]][[User talk:CheatCodes4ever|Codes]][[Special:Contributions/CheatCodes4ever|4ever]] ([[User:CheatCodes4ever/sandbox|sandbox]] | [[m:Special:CentralAuth/CheatCodes4ever|CentralAuth]]) 11:11, 14 April 2026 (UTC)

== Review of revision 5008318 [Passed] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 5008318
| copyright = pass
| newsworthy = pass
| verifiable = pass
| npov = pass
| style = pass
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = As part of the review process, edits were made to improve accuracy, attribution, and neutrality; remove unsupported analysis and commentary; correct and align quotations with sources; ensure proper paraphrasing to avoid close copying; standardize formatting and style per [[WN:SG]]; restructure the article to follow the inverted pyramid. See the edit history for full details. 

Thank you for contributing!
| time = 14:00, April 15, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 14:00, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
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    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091941</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008285</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:07:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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      <id>5008286</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:08:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008286</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="53my0xiwn8x1godsk393kfdjoiv32g4" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=VitaminCBringer}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:08, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>53my0xiwn8x1godsk393kfdjoiv32g4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Kelawiki</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091943</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008287</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:12:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008287</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="22r687vi389ao29qbma420e3rfxmpxu" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Kelawiki}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:12, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>22r687vi389ao29qbma420e3rfxmpxu</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Athenapreciousmarfil</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091944</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008288</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:13:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008288</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="168" sha1="h7ambb6v4n8hyj7zzs88v9p9w4p41nl" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Athenapreciousmarfil}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:13, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>h7ambb6v4n8hyj7zzs88v9p9w4p41nl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Jumbo Cole</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091945</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008289</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:18:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008289</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="09jd1zujwea1xvbfp70ryo4uhz4dst4" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Jumbo Cole}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:18, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>09jd1zujwea1xvbfp70ryo4uhz4dst4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ayalyc</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091946</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008290</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:20:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008290</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="154" sha1="a6ofnhuxfupabyr3ykrbghtab9y99ly" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ayalyc}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:20, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>a6ofnhuxfupabyr3ykrbghtab9y99ly</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:098765433228j</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091947</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008291</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:23:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008291</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="e2z8trgnw502xxkdcma6cd31gzigxw0" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=098765433228j}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:23, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>e2z8trgnw502xxkdcma6cd31gzigxw0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Myslfvivek</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091948</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008292</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:38:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008292</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="fnbok3tqy3dn0blqfq5e53pc53l2zd1" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Myslfvivek}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fnbok3tqy3dn0blqfq5e53pc53l2zd1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Numbyzzyz</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091949</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008293</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:39:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008293</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="ckm8ifbe1qtzcypkf76in9wimr9u7yk" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Numbyzzyz}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:39, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ckm8ifbe1qtzcypkf76in9wimr9u7yk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Sussmilch</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091950</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008294</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:42:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008294</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="5tbyp1mixfdws3r0tt3zrizppj5uyai" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Sussmilch}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:42, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5tbyp1mixfdws3r0tt3zrizppj5uyai</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Nusrat Tanha</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091951</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008296</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T12:49:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008296</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="015nk3fitw8ogqzxwmazbnlq3cbcqlo" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Nusrat Tanha}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 12:49, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>015nk3fitw8ogqzxwmazbnlq3cbcqlo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Unnamed q</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091952</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008298</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:02:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008298</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="riqkyngvz30umy3qtylx0lh678q9fna" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Unnamed q}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 13:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>riqkyngvz30umy3qtylx0lh678q9fna</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Happyish</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091953</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008307</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:32:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008307</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="n8juap8naj7yzqeykwpwysj6uciyiac" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Happyish}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 13:32, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n8juap8naj7yzqeykwpwysj6uciyiac</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Sugarcookie86</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091954</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008308</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T13:40:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008308</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="lpawefbsj98k0aholsiu1v6a9ejoosd" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Sugarcookie86}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 13:40, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lpawefbsj98k0aholsiu1v6a9ejoosd</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Comments:United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz</title>
    <ns>102</ns>
    <id>3091955</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008321</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:00:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Creating initial comment page (via [[WN:EzPR_2025|EasyPeerReview 2025]])</comment>
      <origin>5008321</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="49" sha1="8fid0u82ko8gcxt6of5p9qd2rseb7u2" xml:space="preserve">{{Commentary/DT}} &lt;!-- Leave this line alone. --&gt;</text>
      <sha1>8fid0u82ko8gcxt6of5p9qd2rseb7u2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008825</id>
      <parentid>5008321</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T08:46:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>~2026-23418-12</username>
        <id>2954238</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The sad of are wordl */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008825</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="219" sha1="foww4ji7jve8hvpi3eduw6rfqat0ixu" xml:space="preserve">{{Commentary/DT}} &lt;!-- Leave this line alone. --&gt;

== The sad of are wordl ==

Rinuk

[[Special:Contributions/&amp;#126;2026-23418-12|&amp;#126;2026-23418-12]] ([[User talk:&amp;#126;2026-23418-12|talk]]) 08:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>foww4ji7jve8hvpi3eduw6rfqat0ixu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008826</id>
      <parentid>5008825</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T08:46:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>~2026-23418-12</username>
        <id>2954238</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The sad of are wordl */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008826</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="389" sha1="8vkga36zurfrjjkrjw1zcy03dsu0s26" xml:space="preserve">{{Commentary/DT}} &lt;!-- Leave this line alone. --&gt;

== The sad of are wordl ==

Rinuk

[[Special:Contributions/&amp;#126;2026-23418-12|&amp;#126;2026-23418-12]] ([[User talk:&amp;#126;2026-23418-12|talk]]) 08:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

== The sad of are wordl ==

Rinuk

[[Special:Contributions/&amp;#126;2026-23418-12|&amp;#126;2026-23418-12]] ([[User talk:&amp;#126;2026-23418-12|talk]]) 08:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8vkga36zurfrjjkrjw1zcy03dsu0s26</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Sorairi</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091956</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008328</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:09:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008328</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="4j4deuf8ltn3is2sv9lxn61diaihbzs" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Sorairi}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:09, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4j4deuf8ltn3is2sv9lxn61diaihbzs</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Mrns.bsf</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091957</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008333</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:19:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008333</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="fvqej6dy15wuaff905zjkaqoitgnx86" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Mrns.bsf}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:19, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fvqej6dy15wuaff905zjkaqoitgnx86</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Profoundsage018</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091958</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008340</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:29:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008340</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="bly5vb8bdd8axajo11sdjcdh0slaao2" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Profoundsage018}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:29, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bly5vb8bdd8axajo11sdjcdh0slaao2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Intit</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091959</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008341</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:31:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008341</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="153" sha1="gvuuxky6lzsf8ow7ga7yse7zuswirpd" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Intit}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:31, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gvuuxky6lzsf8ow7ga7yse7zuswirpd</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:KBEkanayake</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091960</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008343</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:36:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008343</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="2odomowgzvtf02bc72rcbybocc8lxu6" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=KBEkanayake}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2odomowgzvtf02bc72rcbybocc8lxu6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Yurkov n</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091961</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008345</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:39:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008345</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="45tdqfrkprfpwi6tw4j8utyhlpjaw12" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Yurkov n}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:39, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>45tdqfrkprfpwi6tw4j8utyhlpjaw12</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Franekpanek122</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091962</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008346</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:42:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008346</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="9ogu7dut9iz777juxt475krhn42prtl" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Franekpanek122}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:42, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9ogu7dut9iz777juxt475krhn42prtl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:VirtuousCodex</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091963</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008347</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:44:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008347</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="alsix33vledocn8upjarzq1md75j2zz" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=VirtuousCodex}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:44, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>alsix33vledocn8upjarzq1md75j2zz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Nahidontfeellikeit</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091964</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008348</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:49:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008348</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="166" sha1="mkml23zpx21g99000f00pxqdmfzoqqz" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Nahidontfeellikeit}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:49, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mkml23zpx21g99000f00pxqdmfzoqqz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008349</id>
      <parentid>5008348</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:52:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Nahidontfeellikeit</username>
        <id>2954080</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Reply</comment>
      <origin>5008349</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="321" sha1="db43dl7gz51zbwr1nwloty0q1gzonpa" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Nahidontfeellikeit}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:49, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

:isnt wikinews getting read only-ified? [[User:Nahidontfeellikeit|Nahidontfeellikeit]] ([[User talk:Nahidontfeellikeit|talk]]) 14:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>db43dl7gz51zbwr1nwloty0q1gzonpa</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:ThelaLuna</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091965</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008350</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:53:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008350</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="cv1mxi69j18dypobdsa3on8faji9rsz" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=ThelaLuna}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:53, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cv1mxi69j18dypobdsa3on8faji9rsz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Polydoro18b</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091966</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008351</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:54:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008351</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="03ras6pcrqs791zg5wz99vhs8tw335w" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Polydoro18b}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 14:54, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>03ras6pcrqs791zg5wz99vhs8tw335w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:Nahidontfeellikeit</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>3091967</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008352</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T14:55:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Nahidontfeellikeit</username>
        <id>2954080</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Page created with &quot;Please go to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nahidontfeellikeit%5D My userpage on wikipedia] to view my userpage&quot;</comment>
      <origin>5008352</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="115" sha1="fc6rkpkqg3uusvy9l8t8i69kx0fwjfg" xml:space="preserve">Please go to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nahidontfeellikeit%5D My userpage on wikipedia] to view my userpage</text>
      <sha1>fc6rkpkqg3uusvy9l8t8i69kx0fwjfg</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:RaggedDan</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091968</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008353</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:12:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008353</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="i7eumxw5074e2mgjzda3i2tnhwk7zwf" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=RaggedDan}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:12, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i7eumxw5074e2mgjzda3i2tnhwk7zwf</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Irakoze Jules Maurice</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091969</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008356</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:15:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008356</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="169" sha1="tld827k1smr54xsvkwkulkhluqlkt34" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Irakoze Jules Maurice}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tld827k1smr54xsvkwkulkhluqlkt34</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:GIGIPOTENTE</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091970</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008357</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:18:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008357</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="k8fk22bjzbxt0hbaj2mxs5lpfqm0jp7" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=GIGIPOTENTE}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:18, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k8fk22bjzbxt0hbaj2mxs5lpfqm0jp7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Mainmadhav</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091971</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008358</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:22:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008358</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="ohp7770a2emb60o7za0vk78vd4yk464" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Mainmadhav}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ohp7770a2emb60o7za0vk78vd4yk464</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Tom N Waugh</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091972</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008359</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:39:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008359</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="19vtiti9gl0hmecf81iz3cewuzw2zb7" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Tom N Waugh}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:39, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>19vtiti9gl0hmecf81iz3cewuzw2zb7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Gloomstack</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091973</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008360</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:46:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008360</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="bw6a2qxfi6mgncmkgzfmwe5z6l44sna" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Gloomstack}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bw6a2qxfi6mgncmkgzfmwe5z6l44sna</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Wikinews:2026 Wind-down Wikinews</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>3091974</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008361</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:51:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>shiny new</comment>
      <origin>5008361</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1255" sha1="codcg7iydqnhg6ecwvs3tttp7g11lzi" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: See [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

So far, most of the [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] have been done, except for those that utilize {{tl|Infobox}} instead of {{tl|Infosection}}. 

[[:Category:State infoboxes]] are done. 

[[:Category:Country infoboxes]] has been started. Sections J, K, and L have been converted to static lists. See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]]
* [[:Template:Albania]]

Feel free to add to this page.</text>
      <sha1>codcg7iydqnhg6ecwvs3tttp7g11lzi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008371</id>
      <parentid>5008361</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:04:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */ explain a bit</comment>
      <origin>5008371</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1463" sha1="czqmdliru2eqidkybr7w6dw4ukp3g7b" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: See [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

So far, most of the [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] have been done, except for those that utilize {{tl|Infobox}} instead of {{tl|Infosection}}. 

[[:Category:State infoboxes]] are done. 

[[:Category:Country infoboxes]] has been started. Sections J, K, and L have been converted to static lists. See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.</text>
      <sha1>czqmdliru2eqidkybr7w6dw4ukp3g7b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008372</id>
      <parentid>5008371</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:09:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */ archive articles</comment>
      <origin>5008372</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1833" sha1="iahks1hgdqp40fwnz6yqv8qm3dobcsh" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: See [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

So far, most of the [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] have been done, except for those that utilize {{tl|Infobox}} instead of {{tl|Infosection}}. 

[[:Category:State infoboxes]] are done. 

[[:Category:Country infoboxes]] has been started. Sections J, K, and L have been converted to static lists. See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.</text>
      <sha1>iahks1hgdqp40fwnz6yqv8qm3dobcsh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008374</id>
      <parentid>5008372</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:12:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Koavf</username>
        <id>5879</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>added [[Category:Wikinews]] using [[Help:Gadget-HotCat|HotCat]]</comment>
      <origin>5008374</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1856" sha1="s0c1os9cn2t4sbk3bzu04ee9288dv3l" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: See [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

So far, most of the [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] have been done, except for those that utilize {{tl|Infobox}} instead of {{tl|Infosection}}. 

[[:Category:State infoboxes]] are done. 

[[:Category:Country infoboxes]] has been started. Sections J, K, and L have been converted to static lists. See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>s0c1os9cn2t4sbk3bzu04ee9288dv3l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008377</id>
      <parentid>5008374</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:16:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Koavf</username>
        <id>5879</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */</comment>
      <origin>5008377</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1914" sha1="40ny69vt8xd4n4dryrreiw0qlouzgm5" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: See [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

So far, most of the [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] have been done, except for those that utilize {{tl|Infobox}} instead of {{tl|Infosection}}. 

[[:Category:State infoboxes]] are done. 

[[:Category:Country infoboxes]] has been started. Sections J, K, and L have been converted to static lists. See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>40ny69vt8xd4n4dryrreiw0qlouzgm5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008409</id>
      <parentid>5008377</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:55:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */ sections M and N are done</comment>
      <origin>5008409</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1906" sha1="jxwdt3qnbuw7puknz6zzmjarpb9i5j0" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: See [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

So far, most of the [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] have been done, except for those that utilize {{tl|Infobox}} instead of {{tl|Infosection}}. 

[[:Category:State infoboxes]] are done. 

[[:Category:Country infoboxes]] has been started. Sections J-N have been converted to static lists. See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>jxwdt3qnbuw7puknz6zzmjarpb9i5j0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008501</id>
      <parentid>5008409</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:11:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */ Completed L through S</comment>
      <origin>5008501</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1906" sha1="28jjh7p2kouwdmu06rxqpp4to4utniq" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: See [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

So far, most of the [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] have been done, except for those that utilize {{tl|Infobox}} instead of {{tl|Infosection}}. 

[[:Category:State infoboxes]] are done. 

[[:Category:Country infoboxes]] has been started. Sections J-S have been converted to static lists. See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>28jjh7p2kouwdmu06rxqpp4to4utniq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008551</id>
      <parentid>5008501</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:32:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */ completed to Z</comment>
      <origin>5008551</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1906" sha1="e3atnym79yr94xyat9nqo5qqyt7evln" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: See [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

So far, most of the [[:Category:Event infoboxes]] have been done, except for those that utilize {{tl|Infobox}} instead of {{tl|Infosection}}. 

[[:Category:State infoboxes]] are done. 

[[:Category:Country infoboxes]] has been started. Sections J-Z have been converted to static lists. See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>e3atnym79yr94xyat9nqo5qqyt7evln</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008717</id>
      <parentid>5008551</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:42:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */ update with table</comment>
      <origin>5008717</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1864" sha1="svb05hpzoelxd3sq9mjlb7kpxcchz0b" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]
: See also: [[Wikinews talk:2026 Wind-down Wikinews#Bot to convert DPL to static lists]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
! Infoboxes !! Status
|-
| Event infoboxes || {{done}}
|-
| State infoboxes || {{done}}
|-
| Country infoboxes || Sections J–Z done
|}

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>svb05hpzoelxd3sq9mjlb7kpxcchz0b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008719</id>
      <parentid>5008717</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:49:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */ expand table</comment>
      <origin>5008719</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2164" sha1="96v0c7otysmi2139vx7yjh2thirz38w" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]
: See also: [[Wikinews talk:2026 Wind-down Wikinews#Bot to convert DPL to static lists]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

See the following for examples of how it is being done:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
! Infoboxes !! Status
|-
| [[:Category:Event infoboxes|Event infoboxes]] || {{done}}
|-
| [[:Category:State infoboxes|State infoboxes]] || {{done}}
|-
| [[:Category:Country infoboxes|Country infoboxes]] || Sections J–Z done
|-
| [[:Category:Election infobox templates|Election infobox templates]] ||
|-
| [[:Category:Hurricane season infoboxes|Hurricane season infoboxes]] ||
|-
| [[:Category:Infoboxes|Uncategorized infoboxes]] ||
|}

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>96v0c7otysmi2139vx7yjh2thirz38w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008734</id>
      <parentid>5008719</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:44:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Infoboxes */ clarify</comment>
      <origin>5008734</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2186" sha1="4e7wn05pvbrmewiwv0f4d0q8t3iiqey" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]
: See also: [[Wikinews talk:2026 Wind-down Wikinews#Bot to convert DPL to static lists]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

See the following for examples of how DPL is being converted to static lists:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
! Infoboxes !! Status
|-
| [[:Category:Event infoboxes|Event infoboxes]] || {{done}}
|-
| [[:Category:State infoboxes|State infoboxes]] || {{done}}
|-
| [[:Category:Country infoboxes|Country infoboxes]] || Sections J–Z done
|-
| [[:Category:Election infobox templates|Election infobox templates]] ||
|-
| [[:Category:Hurricane season infoboxes|Hurricane season infoboxes]] ||
|-
| [[:Category:Infoboxes|Uncategorized infoboxes]] ||
|}

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>4e7wn05pvbrmewiwv0f4d0q8t3iiqey</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008738</id>
      <parentid>5008734</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:52:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>add tasks for non-admin/reviewers</comment>
      <origin>5008738</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2727" sha1="oi6n5gyy3ttz4cvj06sqeguqhy0jf8a" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

If you are a non-reviewer and non-admin and still want to help, consider the following tasks:

* See the list of [[:Category:flag|flagged discussions]] and weigh in on any of them to help resolve the issues. 
* See the list of requests at [[WN:DR|Deletion requests]] and weigh in on any of them to help move the needle towards resolution
* Know of any other tasks that need done? Post on the [[Wikinews talk:2026 Wind-down Wikinews|talk page]]
* Contribute to our last article: [[Wikinews:Story preparation/Wikinews closes after 21 years]]

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]
: See also: [[Wikinews talk:2026 Wind-down Wikinews#Bot to convert DPL to static lists]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

See the following for examples of how DPL is being converted to static lists:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
! Infoboxes !! Status
|-
| [[:Category:Event infoboxes|Event infoboxes]] || {{done}}
|-
| [[:Category:State infoboxes|State infoboxes]] || {{done}}
|-
| [[:Category:Country infoboxes|Country infoboxes]] || Sections J–Z done
|-
| [[:Category:Election infobox templates|Election infobox templates]] ||
|-
| [[:Category:Hurricane season infoboxes|Hurricane season infoboxes]] ||
|-
| [[:Category:Infoboxes|Uncategorized infoboxes]] ||
|}

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>oi6n5gyy3ttz4cvj06sqeguqhy0jf8a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008739</id>
      <parentid>5008738</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:55:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* DPL */ expand list of pages</comment>
      <origin>5008739</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2813" sha1="4p2wfekwstocucgxgll1z3pfh5pfb59" xml:space="preserve">With the [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]] there are several tasks that could be done to ensure the read-only version of ''Wikinews'' is presented appropriately. We can use this page to track that work. 

If you are a non-reviewer and non-admin and still want to help, consider the following tasks:

* See the list of [[:Category:flag|flagged discussions]] and weigh in on any of them to help resolve the issues. 
* See the list of requests at [[WN:DR|Deletion requests]] and weigh in on any of them to help move the needle towards resolution
* Know of any other tasks that need done? Post on the [[Wikinews talk:2026 Wind-down Wikinews|talk page]]
* Contribute to our last article: [[Wikinews:Story preparation/Wikinews closes after 21 years]]

== DPL ==
DPL will likely be disabled, causing an error to be reported on any page that uses DPL to return a list of pages. 

We use DPL on many pages that will need to be updated to avoid having an error reported. The following is a list of pages we should probably remove DPL from and replace it with static lists:

* [[Main page]]
* [[Newsroom]]
* [[Wikinews:Water cooler]]
* [[Wikinews:Archives]] (and a boat-load of its subpages)
* Infoboxes (see below)

=== Infoboxes ===
: See also: [[Wikinews:Admin action alerts#In anticipation of DPL being disabled]]
: See also: [[Wikinews talk:2026 Wind-down Wikinews#Bot to convert DPL to static lists]]

All of the infoboxes we place on articles use DPL.

See the following for examples of how DPL is being converted to static lists:

* [[:Template:Afghanistan]] (manually rebuild using {{tl|Infosection}} to replace {{tl|infobox}})
* [[:Template:Albania]]
* [[:Template:Mauritania]] (already used {{tl|Infosection}} instead of {{tl|infobox}}, simply replace DPL with copied/pasted static list)

Feel free to add to this page.

{{Ping|Michael.C.Wright}} See [[phab:T421796#11825297]].

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
! Infoboxes !! Status
|-
| [[:Category:Event infoboxes|Event infoboxes]] || {{done}}
|-
| [[:Category:State infoboxes|State infoboxes]] || {{done}}
|-
| [[:Category:Country infoboxes|Country infoboxes]] || Sections J–Z done
|-
| [[:Category:Election infobox templates|Election infobox templates]] ||
|-
| [[:Category:Hurricane season infoboxes|Hurricane season infoboxes]] ||
|-
| [[:Category:Infoboxes|Uncategorized infoboxes]] ||
|}

== Archive published articles ==
We should archive all published articles and make sure the quality is at the level we want it to be. See [[Wikinews:Archive_conventions]] for instructions on the archival process. 

This will require someone who is both a reviewer and admin to complete, as admin can't sight changes, but published articles are protected to admin-only.

[[Category:Wikinews]]</text>
      <sha1>4p2wfekwstocucgxgll1z3pfh5pfb59</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Sanwortive</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091975</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008364</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:57:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008364</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="9rf0zd04n81ajyu1zu4otvwoazhauub" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Sanwortive}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:57, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9rf0zd04n81ajyu1zu4otvwoazhauub</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Tums2060</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091976</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008366</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T15:58:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008366</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="kgcgd97nbo3idfc6cmbsjyo5q8w2dnx" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Tums2060}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 15:58, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kgcgd97nbo3idfc6cmbsjyo5q8w2dnx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:ConnyPorsch</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091977</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008368</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:00:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008368</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="hqimfthzqtmiienn1iio5hpa53bhe6l" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=ConnyPorsch}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:00, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hqimfthzqtmiienn1iio5hpa53bhe6l</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:SterlingSilv</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091978</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008370</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:03:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008370</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="n003gvumkp2tj1o1y4l27f7n041tici" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=SterlingSilv}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n003gvumkp2tj1o1y4l27f7n041tici</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Mitchmoose77</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091979</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008379</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:17:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008379</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="3iyk85k661nm5q4x8aognpi0w1i00yk" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Mitchmoose77}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:17, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3iyk85k661nm5q4x8aognpi0w1i00yk</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ayanai Freestyle</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091980</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008380</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:17:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008380</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="6ew9fk5voixow6stxy1f7ynk0chzt2w" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ayanai Freestyle}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:17, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6ew9fk5voixow6stxy1f7ynk0chzt2w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ma1ayaJ</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091981</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008385</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:24:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008385</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="c343o8zpjyjtx0q0o6ycb2qbrxkp73e" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ma1ayaJ}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:24, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c343o8zpjyjtx0q0o6ycb2qbrxkp73e</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:FS-Rentner</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091982</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008390</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:31:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008390</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="syi9cjd8yyghbxgmnnwphx4cjeombnb" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=FS-Rentner}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:31, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>syi9cjd8yyghbxgmnnwphx4cjeombnb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Lorfenn</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091983</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008392</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:32:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008392</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="m3wg1vo62hmwsagfy4o3czy1rkygw44" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Lorfenn}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:32, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>m3wg1vo62hmwsagfy4o3czy1rkygw44</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Tduong06</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091984</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008396</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:37:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008396</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="fn6h16citz2ffv1qjqwy924n3gi0e83" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Tduong06}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:37, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fn6h16citz2ffv1qjqwy924n3gi0e83</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ahmedelshabory</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091985</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008402</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:50:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008402</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="413qwlx4mzli14hb1fyrvze2gg0z165" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ahmedelshabory}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:50, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>413qwlx4mzli14hb1fyrvze2gg0z165</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ankit Kumar ojha bardod Bhilwara</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091987</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008405</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:52:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008405</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="180" sha1="b1ff7y7v8gfcq75g9epkq7v78pmuyf6" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ankit Kumar ojha bardod Bhilwara}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b1ff7y7v8gfcq75g9epkq7v78pmuyf6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:ByLblGA</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091988</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008408</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:55:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008408</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="hb5l6p7kub65tgl0umq8ybltxp8pn9w" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=ByLblGA}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hb5l6p7kub65tgl0umq8ybltxp8pn9w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:FlowerHell20</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091989</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008410</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T16:55:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008410</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="jasstd5hqhlvy0kzbwu9o9tgbwd1efe" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=FlowerHell20}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 16:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jasstd5hqhlvy0kzbwu9o9tgbwd1efe</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Waliahmetov</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091990</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008415</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:01:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008415</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="2ryis9zprhw1cjj50d3s9upnp1bxoyx" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Waliahmetov}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2ryis9zprhw1cjj50d3s9upnp1bxoyx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Anapodaris</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091991</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008416</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:08:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008416</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="284vz1vkqujv7e55rt78i1v796lzhln" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Anapodaris}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:08, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>284vz1vkqujv7e55rt78i1v796lzhln</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:MrJacobsNeighbor</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091992</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008422</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:34:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008422</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="pe2bl53035y419b14mhc5s547i9crho" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=MrJacobsNeighbor}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pe2bl53035y419b14mhc5s547i9crho</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Poteatthegeek</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091993</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008423</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:42:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008423</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="7oxgwd4enimhmevtec0sahpcp9pqtmc" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Poteatthegeek}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:42, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7oxgwd4enimhmevtec0sahpcp9pqtmc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Omrfkk</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091994</id>
    <redirect title="User talk:Omer Faruk Baltaci" />
    <revision>
      <id>5008425</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:44:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Neriah</username>
        <id>2815768</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Neriah moved page [[User talk:Omrfkk]] to [[User talk:Omer Faruk Baltaci]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Omrfkk|Omrfkk]]&quot; to &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Omer Faruk Baltaci|Omer Faruk Baltaci]]&quot;</comment>
      <origin>5008425</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="42" sha1="8jtn4yz4yahoowdnkyhvp9yhwyym9tm" xml:space="preserve">#REDIRECT [[User talk:Omer Faruk Baltaci]]</text>
      <sha1>8jtn4yz4yahoowdnkyhvp9yhwyym9tm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Cat.Baton</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091995</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008426</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:47:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008426</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="8mf1v2sf15iv5fu8sz06y2yfxmt77pl" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Cat.Baton}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:47, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8mf1v2sf15iv5fu8sz06y2yfxmt77pl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Karrar.29</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091996</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008427</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:50:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008427</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="perz3fg57git8r9omc0elgguu1ozbtf" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Karrar.29}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:50, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>perz3fg57git8r9omc0elgguu1ozbtf</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Divyanshu186</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091997</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008428</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:51:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008428</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="1l08spi9qmuyypu7o142jsl9iej9uah" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Divyanshu186}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:51, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1l08spi9qmuyypu7o142jsl9iej9uah</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:JulienB82</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3091998</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008429</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:52:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008429</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="e5qogrejmc9owbigylv2u2d7mcj2b0h" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=JulienB82}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>e5qogrejmc9owbigylv2u2d7mcj2b0h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:Michael.C.Wright/js/Template-rebuild.js</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>3091999</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008430</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:54:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Shiny new</comment>
      <origin>5008430</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="2700" sha1="qi320ds03qarzmyr0t4aix0jtpginxi" xml:space="preserve">// &lt;nowiki&gt;
/**
 * Template rebuild
 * First tool: &quot;Linkify List&quot;
 *
 * When editing a template, adds an action link that:
 * 1. Reads plain text from the clipboard
 * 2. Converts lines like:
 *    28 April 2025: Iran and United States schedule fourth round of talks
 *    into:
 *    * [[Iran and United States schedule fourth round of talks]]
 * 3. Inserts the result at the current cursor position
 */

mw.loader.using(['mediawiki.util'], function () {
	'use strict';

	// Only run in Template namespace while editing or submitting source
	if (
		mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber') !== 10 ||
		!['edit', 'submit'].includes(mw.config.get('wgAction'))
	) {
		return;
	}

	var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
	if (!textbox) {
		return;
	}

	function linkifyList(text) {
		return text
			.split(/\r?\n/)
			.map(function (line) {
				line = line.trim();
				if (!line) {
					return '';
				}

				// Match lines like:
				// 28 April 2025: Some article title
				// Remove the leading date and colon, keep the title
				var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
				if (!match) {
					return line;
				}

				return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
			})
			.filter(function (line) {
				return line !== '';
			})
			.join('\n');
	}

	function insertAtCursor(field, text) {
		var start = field.selectionStart;
		var end = field.selectionEnd;
		var scrollTop = field.scrollTop;

		field.value =
			field.value.substring(0, start) +
			text +
			field.value.substring(end);

		field.focus();
		field.selectionStart = field.selectionEnd = start + text.length;
		field.scrollTop = scrollTop;
	}

	async function handleLinkify() {
		try {
			var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

			if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
				mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
				return;
			}

			var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

			if (!output.trim()) {
				mw.notify('No valid lines were found in the clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
				return;
			}

			insertAtCursor(textbox, output);
			mw.notify('Linked article list inserted.', { type: 'success' });
		} catch (err) {
			console.error('Template rebuild: clipboard read failed', err);
			mw.notify(
				'Could not read the clipboard. Your browser may require permission or a direct user gesture.',
				{ type: 'error' }
			);
		}
	}

	var portletLink = mw.util.addPortletLink(
		'p-cactions', // Actions
		'#',
		'Linkify List',
		'ca-linkify-list',
		'Convert clipboard article list into wikilinks and insert at cursor'
	);

	if (portletLink) {
		portletLink.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
			e.preventDefault();
			handleLinkify();
		});
	}
});
// &lt;/nowiki&gt;</text>
      <sha1>qi320ds03qarzmyr0t4aix0jtpginxi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008434</id>
      <parentid>5008430</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:00:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>provide link this time (hopefully)</comment>
      <origin>5008434</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="2088" sha1="294wfik9adq8ac2fzuy2fnw3npdma6j" xml:space="preserve">// &lt;nowiki&gt;
mw.loader.using(['mediawiki.util'], function () {
	'use strict';

	// Only run in Template namespace on view
	if (
		mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber') !== 10 ||
		mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'view'
	) {
		return;
	}

	function linkifyList(text) {
		return text
			.split(/\r?\n/)
			.map(function (line) {
				line = line.trim();
				if (!line) return '';

				var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
				if (!match) return '';

				return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
			})
			.filter(Boolean)
			.join('\n');
	}

	async function handleLinkify() {
		try {
			var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

			if (!clipboardText.trim()) {
				mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
				return;
			}

			var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

			if (!output.trim()) {
				mw.notify('No valid lines found.', { type: 'warn' });
				return;
			}

			sessionStorage.setItem('templateRebuild_linkify', output);

			window.location = mw.util.getUrl(mw.config.get('wgPageName'), { action: 'edit' });
		} catch (err) {
			console.error(err);
			mw.notify('Clipboard access failed.', { type: 'error' });
		}
	}

	var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
		'p-cactions',
		'#',
		'Linkify List',
		'ca-linkify-list',
		'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks'
	);

	if (link) {
		link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
			e.preventDefault();
			handleLinkify();
		});
	}
});

mw.loader.using([], function () {
	'use strict';

	if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit') return;

	var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
	if (!textbox) return;

	var stored = sessionStorage.getItem('templateRebuild_linkify');
	if (!stored) return;

	sessionStorage.removeItem('templateRebuild_linkify');

	var start = textbox.selectionStart;
	var end = textbox.selectionEnd;

	textbox.value =
		textbox.value.slice(0, start) +
		stored +
		textbox.value.slice(end);

	textbox.selectionStart = textbox.selectionEnd = start + stored.length;
	textbox.focus();

	mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });
});
// &lt;/nowiki&gt;</text>
      <sha1>294wfik9adq8ac2fzuy2fnw3npdma6j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008436</id>
      <parentid>5008434</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:04:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>ignore namespace</comment>
      <origin>5008436</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="2041" sha1="e1dhjayh1mmzlx0iken0lqqwazzyf6l" xml:space="preserve">// &lt;nowiki&gt;
mw.loader.using(['mediawiki.util'], function () {
	'use strict';

	// Only run in Template namespace on view
	if (
		mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'view'
	) {
		return;
	}

	function linkifyList(text) {
		return text
			.split(/\r?\n/)
			.map(function (line) {
				line = line.trim();
				if (!line) return '';

				var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
				if (!match) return '';

				return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
			})
			.filter(Boolean)
			.join('\n');
	}

	async function handleLinkify() {
		try {
			var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

			if (!clipboardText.trim()) {
				mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
				return;
			}

			var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

			if (!output.trim()) {
				mw.notify('No valid lines found.', { type: 'warn' });
				return;
			}

			sessionStorage.setItem('templateRebuild_linkify', output);

			window.location = mw.util.getUrl(mw.config.get('wgPageName'), { action: 'edit' });
		} catch (err) {
			console.error(err);
			mw.notify('Clipboard access failed.', { type: 'error' });
		}
	}

	var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
		'p-cactions',
		'#',
		'Linkify List',
		'ca-linkify-list',
		'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks'
	);

	if (link) {
		link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
			e.preventDefault();
			handleLinkify();
		});
	}
});

mw.loader.using([], function () {
	'use strict';

	if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit') return;

	var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
	if (!textbox) return;

	var stored = sessionStorage.getItem('templateRebuild_linkify');
	if (!stored) return;

	sessionStorage.removeItem('templateRebuild_linkify');

	var start = textbox.selectionStart;
	var end = textbox.selectionEnd;

	textbox.value =
		textbox.value.slice(0, start) +
		stored +
		textbox.value.slice(end);

	textbox.selectionStart = textbox.selectionEnd = start + stored.length;
	textbox.focus();

	mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });
});
// &lt;/nowiki&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e1dhjayh1mmzlx0iken0lqqwazzyf6l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008438</id>
      <parentid>5008436</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:05:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>debug</comment>
      <origin>5008438</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="2075" sha1="1dzkairz234gu1p9nsvmoi00i3uicag" xml:space="preserve">// &lt;nowiki&gt;
alert('Template rebuild loaded');
mw.loader.using(['mediawiki.util'], function () {
	'use strict';

	// Only run in Template namespace on view
	if (
		mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'view'
	) {
		return;
	}

	function linkifyList(text) {
		return text
			.split(/\r?\n/)
			.map(function (line) {
				line = line.trim();
				if (!line) return '';

				var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
				if (!match) return '';

				return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
			})
			.filter(Boolean)
			.join('\n');
	}

	async function handleLinkify() {
		try {
			var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

			if (!clipboardText.trim()) {
				mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
				return;
			}

			var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

			if (!output.trim()) {
				mw.notify('No valid lines found.', { type: 'warn' });
				return;
			}

			sessionStorage.setItem('templateRebuild_linkify', output);

			window.location = mw.util.getUrl(mw.config.get('wgPageName'), { action: 'edit' });
		} catch (err) {
			console.error(err);
			mw.notify('Clipboard access failed.', { type: 'error' });
		}
	}

	var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
		'p-cactions',
		'#',
		'Linkify List',
		'ca-linkify-list',
		'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks'
	);

	if (link) {
		link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
			e.preventDefault();
			handleLinkify();
		});
	}
});

mw.loader.using([], function () {
	'use strict';

	if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit') return;

	var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
	if (!textbox) return;

	var stored = sessionStorage.getItem('templateRebuild_linkify');
	if (!stored) return;

	sessionStorage.removeItem('templateRebuild_linkify');

	var start = textbox.selectionStart;
	var end = textbox.selectionEnd;

	textbox.value =
		textbox.value.slice(0, start) +
		stored +
		textbox.value.slice(end);

	textbox.selectionStart = textbox.selectionEnd = start + stored.length;
	textbox.focus();

	mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });
});
// &lt;/nowiki&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1dzkairz234gu1p9nsvmoi00i3uicag</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008439</id>
      <parentid>5008438</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:10:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>try, try again</comment>
      <origin>5008439</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="2988" sha1="gfxw87n2sqg59bucnn2pkwrxlq0f0mq" xml:space="preserve">// &lt;nowiki&gt;
// Template-rebuild.js
// Adds &quot;Linkify List&quot; under Actions on template pages.
// Clicking it reads the clipboard, converts dated lines into wikilink bullets,
// then opens the edit form and inserts the result into the textbox.

(function () {

    // Only run on template page views
    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'view' || mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber') !== 10) {
        return;
    }

    function linkifyList(text) {
        return text
            .split(/\r?\n/)
            .map(function (line) {
                line = line.trim();
                if (!line) return '';

                // Example:
                // 28 April 2025: Iran and United States schedule fourth round of talks
                var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                if (!match) return '';

                return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
            })
            .filter(Boolean)
            .join('\n');
    }

    async function handleLinkify() {
        try {
            var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

            if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

            if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            sessionStorage.setItem('templateRebuild_linkify', output);
            window.location = mw.util.getUrl(mw.config.get('wgPageName'), { action: 'edit' });

        } catch (err) {
            console.error('Template rebuild: clipboard read failed', err);
            mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
        }
    }

    mw.util.addPortletLink(
        'p-cactions',
        '#',
        'Linkify List',
        'ca-linkify-list',
        'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks'
    ).addEventListener('click', function (e) {
        e.preventDefault();
        handleLinkify();
    });

})();

(function () {

    // Only run on edit form
    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
        return;
    }

    var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
    if (!textbox) {
        return;
    }

    var stored = sessionStorage.getItem('templateRebuild_linkify');
    if (!stored) {
        return;
    }

    sessionStorage.removeItem('templateRebuild_linkify');

    var start = textbox.selectionStart;
    var end = textbox.selectionEnd;
    var scrollTop = textbox.scrollTop;

    textbox.value =
        textbox.value.substring(0, start) +
        stored +
        textbox.value.substring(end);

    textbox.focus();
    textbox.selectionStart = textbox.selectionEnd = start + stored.length;
    textbox.scrollTop = scrollTop;

    mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });

})();
// &lt;/nowiki&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gfxw87n2sqg59bucnn2pkwrxlq0f0mq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008440</id>
      <parentid>5008439</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:11:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>see if this sticks</comment>
      <origin>5008440</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="3500" sha1="mbkdx69z31zc8r7jidmdr0smgk8pbjd" xml:space="preserve">// &lt;nowiki&gt;
// Template-rebuild.js

(function () {

    function addLinkifyAction() {
        // Only run on template page views
        if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'view' || mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber') !== 10) {
            return;
        }

        function linkifyList(text) {
            return text
                .split(/\r?\n/)
                .map(function (line) {
                    line = line.trim();
                    if (!line) {
                        return '';
                    }

                    var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                    if (!match) {
                        return '';
                    }

                    return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
                })
                .filter(Boolean)
                .join('\n');
        }

        async function handleLinkify() {
            try {
                var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

                if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                    mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                    return;
                }

                var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

                if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                    mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                    return;
                }

                sessionStorage.setItem('templateRebuild_linkify', output);
                window.location = mw.util.getUrl(mw.config.get('wgPageName'), { action: 'edit' });

            } catch (err) {
                console.error('Template rebuild clipboard error:', err);
                mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
            }
        }

        var existing = document.getElementById('ca-linkify-list');
        if (existing) {
            return;
        }

        var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
            'p-cactions',
            '#',
            'Linkify List',
            'ca-linkify-list',
            'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks'
        );

        if (link) {
            link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
                e.preventDefault();
                handleLinkify();
            });
        } else {
            console.log('Template rebuild: p-cactions not found');
        }
    }

    function insertStoredText() {
        if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
            return;
        }

        var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
        if (!textbox) {
            return;
        }

        var stored = sessionStorage.getItem('templateRebuild_linkify');
        if (!stored) {
            return;
        }

        sessionStorage.removeItem('templateRebuild_linkify');

        var start = textbox.selectionStart;
        var end = textbox.selectionEnd;
        var scrollTop = textbox.scrollTop;

        textbox.value =
            textbox.value.substring(0, start) +
            stored +
            textbox.value.substring(end);

        textbox.focus();
        textbox.selectionStart = textbox.selectionEnd = start + stored.length;
        textbox.scrollTop = scrollTop;

        mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });
    }

    $.when(
        mw.loader.using('mediawiki.util'),
        $.ready
    ).then(function () {
        addLinkifyAction();
        insertStoredText();
    });

}());
// &lt;/nowiki&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mbkdx69z31zc8r7jidmdr0smgk8pbjd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008441</id>
      <parentid>5008440</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:13:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>again</comment>
      <origin>5008441</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="2757" sha1="d4eg5vtwkk8p6g8yi8z9izqods1vf5y" xml:space="preserve">(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'view' || mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber') !== 10) {
        return;
    }

    var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
        'p-cactions',
        '#',
        'Linkify List',
        'ca-linkify-list',
        'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks'
    );

    if (!link) {
        console.log('Template-rebuild: addPortletLink returned null');
        return;
    }

    function linkifyList(text) {
        return text
            .split(/\r?\n/)
            .map(function (line) {
                line = line.trim();
                if (!line) {
                    return '';
                }

                var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                if (!match) {
                    return '';
                }

                return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
            })
            .filter(Boolean)
            .join('\n');
    }

    async function handleLinkify() {
        try {
            var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

            if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

            if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            sessionStorage.setItem('templateRebuild_linkify', output);
            window.location = mw.util.getUrl(mw.config.get('wgPageName'), { action: 'edit' });

        } catch (err) {
            console.error('Template-rebuild clipboard error:', err);
            mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
        }
    }

    link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
        e.preventDefault();
        handleLinkify();
    });

}());

(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
        return;
    }

    var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
    if (!textbox) {
        return;
    }

    var stored = sessionStorage.getItem('templateRebuild_linkify');
    if (!stored) {
        return;
    }

    sessionStorage.removeItem('templateRebuild_linkify');

    var start = textbox.selectionStart;
    var end = textbox.selectionEnd;
    var scrollTop = textbox.scrollTop;

    textbox.value =
        textbox.value.substring(0, start) +
        stored +
        textbox.value.substring(end);

    textbox.focus();
    textbox.selectionStart = textbox.selectionEnd = start + stored.length;
    textbox.scrollTop = scrollTop;

    mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });

}());</text>
      <sha1>d4eg5vtwkk8p6g8yi8z9izqods1vf5y</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008442</id>
      <parentid>5008441</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:15:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>stop checking namespace</comment>
      <origin>5008442</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="2712" sha1="n1nt24scbk43iph962j6hq813dud3ym" xml:space="preserve">(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'view') {
        return;
    }

    var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
        'p-cactions',
        '#',
        'Linkify List',
        'ca-linkify-list',
        'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks'
    );

    if (!link) {
        console.log('Template-rebuild: addPortletLink returned null');
        return;
    }

    function linkifyList(text) {
        return text
            .split(/\r?\n/)
            .map(function (line) {
                line = line.trim();
                if (!line) {
                    return '';
                }

                var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                if (!match) {
                    return '';
                }

                return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
            })
            .filter(Boolean)
            .join('\n');
    }

    async function handleLinkify() {
        try {
            var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

            if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

            if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            sessionStorage.setItem('templateRebuild_linkify', output);
            window.location = mw.util.getUrl(mw.config.get('wgPageName'), { action: 'edit' });

        } catch (err) {
            console.error('Template-rebuild clipboard error:', err);
            mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
        }
    }

    link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
        e.preventDefault();
        handleLinkify();
    });

}());

(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
        return;
    }

    var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
    if (!textbox) {
        return;
    }

    var stored = sessionStorage.getItem('templateRebuild_linkify');
    if (!stored) {
        return;
    }

    sessionStorage.removeItem('templateRebuild_linkify');

    var start = textbox.selectionStart;
    var end = textbox.selectionEnd;
    var scrollTop = textbox.scrollTop;

    textbox.value =
        textbox.value.substring(0, start) +
        stored +
        textbox.value.substring(end);

    textbox.focus();
    textbox.selectionStart = textbox.selectionEnd = start + stored.length;
    textbox.scrollTop = scrollTop;

    mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });

}());</text>
      <sha1>n1nt24scbk43iph962j6hq813dud3ym</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008443</id>
      <parentid>5008442</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:17:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>make it available in editor</comment>
      <origin>5008443</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="2421" sha1="hj69co7terq7xuep64u7ayw5vj626of" xml:space="preserve">(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
        return;
    }

    var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
    if (!textbox) {
        return;
    }

    var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
        'p-cactions',
        '#',
        'Linkify List',
        'ca-linkify-list',
        'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks and insert at cursor'
    );

    if (!link) {
        console.log('Template-rebuild: addPortletLink returned null');
        return;
    }

    function linkifyList(text) {
        return text
            .split(/\r?\n/)
            .map(function (line) {
                line = line.trim();
                if (!line) {
                    return '';
                }

                var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                if (!match) {
                    return '';
                }

                return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
            })
            .filter(Boolean)
            .join('\n');
    }

    function insertAtCursor(field, text) {
        var start = field.selectionStart;
        var end = field.selectionEnd;
        var scrollTop = field.scrollTop;

        field.value =
            field.value.substring(0, start) +
            text +
            field.value.substring(end);

        field.focus();
        field.selectionStart = field.selectionEnd = start + text.length;
        field.scrollTop = scrollTop;
    }

    async function handleLinkify() {
        try {
            var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

            if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

            if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            insertAtCursor(textbox, output);
            mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });

        } catch (err) {
            console.error('Template-rebuild clipboard error:', err);
            mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
        }
    }

    link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
        e.preventDefault();
        handleLinkify();
    });

}());</text>
      <sha1>hj69co7terq7xuep64u7ayw5vj626of</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008447</id>
      <parentid>5008443</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:26:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>add ability to detect and replace infobox (hopefully)</comment>
      <origin>5008447</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="4174" sha1="ez8q55w5dsd1couofa1mhdr0cq93pn4" xml:space="preserve">(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
        return;
    }

    var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
    if (!textbox) {
        return;
    }

    function addActionLink(id, text, tooltip, handler) {
        var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
            'p-cactions',
            '#',
            text,
            id,
            tooltip
        );

        if (!link) {
            console.log('Template-rebuild: failed to add link &quot;' + text + '&quot;');
            return null;
        }

        link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
            e.preventDefault();
            handler();
        });

        return link;
    }

    function linkifyList(text) {
        return text
            .split(/\r?\n/)
            .map(function (line) {
                line = line.trim();
                if (!line) {
                    return '';
                }

                var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                if (!match) {
                    return '';
                }

                return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
            })
            .filter(Boolean)
            .join('\n');
    }

    function insertAtCursor(field, text) {
        var start = field.selectionStart;
        var end = field.selectionEnd;
        var scrollTop = field.scrollTop;

        field.value =
            field.value.substring(0, start) +
            text +
            field.value.substring(end);

        field.focus();
        field.selectionStart = field.selectionEnd = start + text.length;
        field.scrollTop = scrollTop;
    }

    async function handleLinkify() {
        try {
            var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

            if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

            if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            insertAtCursor(textbox, output);
            mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });

        } catch (err) {
            console.error('Template-rebuild clipboard error:', err);
            mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
        }
    }

    function findInfoboxCall(text) {
        // Matches {{Infobox|Pakistan}}
        // Allows whitespace and case variation in &quot;Infobox&quot;
        var regex = /\{\{\s*[Ii]nfobox\s*\|\s*([^|}\n]+?)\s*\}\}/;
        return text.match(regex);
    }

    function buildReplacement(name) {
        return [
            '{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=' + name + '}}',
            '[[Image:' + name + ' (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]',
            '{{Infosection|name=Related articles|',
            '}}',
            '{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of ' + name + '.svg|90px|center|link=Category:' + name + ']]}}',
            '{{InfoboxEnd}}'
        ].join('\n');
    }

    function handleReplaceInfobox() {
        var text = textbox.value;
        var match = findInfoboxCall(text);

        if (!match) {
            mw.notify('No {{Infobox|...}} found.', { type: 'warn' });
            return;
        }

        var placeName = match[1].trim();
        var replacement = buildReplacement(placeName);

        textbox.value = text.replace(match[0], replacement);
        textbox.focus();

        mw.notify('{{Infobox}} replaced.', { type: 'success' });
    }

    // Always available
    addActionLink(
        'ca-linkify-list',
        'Linkify List',
        'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks and insert at cursor',
        handleLinkify
    );

    // Only show if {{Infobox|...}} exists in page text
    if (findInfoboxCall(textbox.value)) {
        addActionLink(
            'ca-replace-infobox',
            'Replace {{Infobox}}',
            'Replace {{Infobox|...}} with expanded infobox markup',
            handleReplaceInfobox
        );
    }

}());</text>
      <sha1>ez8q55w5dsd1couofa1mhdr0cq93pn4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008453</id>
      <parentid>5008447</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:33:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>add edit summary</comment>
      <origin>5008453</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="4483" sha1="gflkoja6kfoj1052cklw0cifo2z62n0" xml:space="preserve">(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
        return;
    }

    var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
    if (!textbox) {
        return;
    }

    function addActionLink(id, text, tooltip, handler) {
        var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
            'p-cactions',
            '#',
            text,
            id,
            tooltip
        );

        if (!link) {
            console.log('Template-rebuild: failed to add link &quot;' + text + '&quot;');
            return null;
        }

        link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
            e.preventDefault();
            handler();
        });

        return link;
    }

    function linkifyList(text) {
        return text
            .split(/\r?\n/)
            .map(function (line) {
                line = line.trim();
                if (!line) {
                    return '';
                }

                var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                if (!match) {
                    return '';
                }

                return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
            })
            .filter(Boolean)
            .join('\n');
    }

    function insertAtCursor(field, text) {
        var start = field.selectionStart;
        var end = field.selectionEnd;
        var scrollTop = field.scrollTop;

        field.value =
            field.value.substring(0, start) +
            text +
            field.value.substring(end);

        field.focus();
        field.selectionStart = field.selectionEnd = start + text.length;
        field.scrollTop = scrollTop;
    }

    async function handleLinkify() {
        try {
            var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

            if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

            if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            insertAtCursor(textbox, output);

            var summaryBox = document.getElementById('wpSummary');
            if (summaryBox) {
                summaryBox.value = 'Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].';
            }

            mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });

        } catch (err) {
            console.error('Template-rebuild clipboard error:', err);
            mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
        }
    }

    function findInfoboxCall(text) {
        // Matches {{Infobox|Pakistan}}
        // Allows whitespace and case variation in &quot;Infobox&quot;
        var regex = /\{\{\s*[Ii]nfobox\s*\|\s*([^|}\n]+?)\s*\}\}/;
        return text.match(regex);
    }

    function buildReplacement(name) {
        return [
            '{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=' + name + '}}',
            '[[Image:' + name + ' (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]',
            '{{Infosection|name=Related articles|',
            '}}',
            '{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of ' + name + '.svg|90px|center|link=Category:' + name + ']]}}',
            '{{InfoboxEnd}}'
        ].join('\n');
    }

    function handleReplaceInfobox() {
        var text = textbox.value;
        var match = findInfoboxCall(text);

        if (!match) {
            mw.notify('No {{Infobox|...}} found.', { type: 'warn' });
            return;
        }

        var placeName = match[1].trim();
        var replacement = buildReplacement(placeName);

        textbox.value = text.replace(match[0], replacement);
        textbox.focus();

        mw.notify('{{Infobox}} replaced.', { type: 'success' });
    }

    // Always available
    addActionLink(
        'ca-linkify-list',
        'Linkify List',
        'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks and insert at cursor',
        handleLinkify
    );

    // Only show if {{Infobox|...}} exists in page text
    if (findInfoboxCall(textbox.value)) {
        addActionLink(
            'ca-replace-infobox',
            'Replace {{Infobox}}',
            'Replace {{Infobox|...}} with expanded infobox markup',
            handleReplaceInfobox
        );
    }

}());</text>
      <sha1>gflkoja6kfoj1052cklw0cifo2z62n0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008457</id>
      <parentid>5008453</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:39:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>hopefully detect adn remove language cat links</comment>
      <origin>5008457</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="5683" sha1="6mpfiebyszluossc0ecjlenqy5ipn8z" xml:space="preserve">(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
        return;
    }

    var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
    if (!textbox) {
        return;
    }

    function addActionLink(id, text, tooltip, handler) {
        var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
            'p-cactions',
            '#',
            text,
            id,
            tooltip
        );

        if (!link) {
            console.log('Template-rebuild: failed to add link &quot;' + text + '&quot;');
            return null;
        }

        link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
            e.preventDefault();
            handler();
        });

        return link;
    }

    function appendEditSummary(summaryText) {
        var summaryBox = document.getElementById('wpSummary');
        if (!summaryBox) {
            return;
        }

        if (!summaryBox.value) {
            summaryBox.value = summaryText;
            return;
        }

        if (summaryBox.value.indexOf(summaryText) === -1) {
            summaryBox.value += '; ' + summaryText;
        }
    }

    function linkifyList(text) {
        return text
            .split(/\r?\n/)
            .map(function (line) {
                line = line.trim();
                if (!line) {
                    return '';
                }

                var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                if (!match) {
                    return '';
                }

                return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
            })
            .filter(Boolean)
            .join('\n');
    }

    function insertAtCursor(field, text) {
        var start = field.selectionStart;
        var end = field.selectionEnd;
        var scrollTop = field.scrollTop;

        field.value =
            field.value.substring(0, start) +
            text +
            field.value.substring(end);

        field.focus();
        field.selectionStart = field.selectionEnd = start + text.length;
        field.scrollTop = scrollTop;
    }

    async function handleLinkify() {
        try {
            var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

            if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

            if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            insertAtCursor(textbox, output);
            appendEditSummary('Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].');

            mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });

        } catch (err) {
            console.error('Template-rebuild clipboard error:', err);
            mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
        }
    }

    function findInfoboxCall(text) {
        // Matches {{Infobox|Pakistan}}
        // Allows whitespace and case variation in &quot;Infobox&quot;
        var regex = /\{\{\s*[Ii]nfobox\s*\|\s*([^|}\n]+?)\s*\}\}/;
        return text.match(regex);
    }

    function buildReplacement(name) {
        return [
            '{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=' + name + '}}',
            '[[Image:' + name + ' (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]',
            '{{Infosection|name=Related articles|',
            '}}',
            '{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of ' + name + '.svg|90px|center|link=Category:' + name + ']]}}',
            '{{InfoboxEnd}}'
        ].join('\n');
    }

    function removeLanguageCategoryLines(text) {
        var lines = text.split(/\r?\n/);
        var kept = [];
        var removedAny = false;

        lines.forEach(function (line) {
            var trimmed = line.trim();

            // Matches lines like:
            // [[es:Plantilla:Perú]]
            // [[pt:Predefinição:Infotabela Peru]]
            // [[ru:Шаблон:Перу]]
            if (/^\[\[[a-z]{2}:[^\]]+\]\]$/i.test(trimmed)) {
                removedAny = true;
                return;
            }

            kept.push(line);
        });

        return {
            text: kept.join('\n'),
            removedAny: removedAny
        };
    }

    function handleReplaceInfobox() {
        var text = textbox.value;
        var match = findInfoboxCall(text);

        if (!match) {
            mw.notify('No {{Infobox|...}} found.', { type: 'warn' });
            return;
        }

        var placeName = match[1].trim();
        var replacement = buildReplacement(placeName);

        text = text.replace(match[0], replacement);

        var languageCleanup = removeLanguageCategoryLines(text);
        textbox.value = languageCleanup.text;
        textbox.focus();

        if (languageCleanup.removedAny) {
            appendEditSummary('Translation links now handled by wikidata.');
        }

        mw.notify('{{Infobox}} replaced.', { type: 'success' });
    }

    // Always available
    addActionLink(
        'ca-linkify-list',
        'Linkify List',
        'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks and insert at cursor',
        handleLinkify
    );

    // Only show if {{Infobox|...}} exists in page text
    if (findInfoboxCall(textbox.value)) {
        addActionLink(
            'ca-replace-infobox',
            'Replace {{Infobox}}',
            'Replace {{Infobox|...}} with expanded infobox markup',
            handleReplaceInfobox
        );
    }

}());</text>
      <sha1>6mpfiebyszluossc0ecjlenqy5ipn8z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008467</id>
      <parentid>5008457</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:50:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>automagically place linkified list</comment>
      <origin>5008467</origin>
      <model>javascript</model>
      <format>text/javascript</format>
      <text bytes="6272" sha1="5ssdjq8g7i3yvfswskptq4de2x6pphh" xml:space="preserve">(function () {

    if (mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'edit' &amp;&amp; mw.config.get('wgAction') !== 'submit') {
        return;
    }

    var textbox = document.getElementById('wpTextbox1');
    if (!textbox) {
        return;
    }

    function addActionLink(id, text, tooltip, handler) {
        var link = mw.util.addPortletLink(
            'p-cactions',
            '#',
            text,
            id,
            tooltip
        );

        if (!link) {
            console.log('Template-rebuild: failed to add link &quot;' + text + '&quot;');
            return null;
        }

        link.addEventListener('click', function (e) {
            e.preventDefault();
            handler();
        });

        return link;
    }

    function appendEditSummary(summaryText) {
        var summaryBox = document.getElementById('wpSummary');
        if (!summaryBox) {
            return;
        }

        if (!summaryBox.value) {
            summaryBox.value = summaryText;
            return;
        }

        if (summaryBox.value.indexOf(summaryText) === -1) {
            summaryBox.value += '; ' + summaryText;
        }
    }

    function linkifyList(text) {
        return text
            .split(/\r?\n/)
            .map(function (line) {
                line = line.trim();
                if (!line) {
                    return '';
                }

                var match = line.match(/^\d{1,2}\s+[A-Za-z]+\s+\d{4}:\s*(.+)$/);
                if (!match) {
                    return '';
                }

                return '* [[' + match[1].trim() + ']]';
            })
            .filter(Boolean)
            .join('\n');
    }

    function insertAtCursor(field, text) {
        var start = field.selectionStart;
        var end = field.selectionEnd;
        var scrollTop = field.scrollTop;

        field.value =
            field.value.substring(0, start) +
            text +
            field.value.substring(end);

        field.focus();
        field.selectionStart = field.selectionEnd = start + text.length;
        field.scrollTop = scrollTop;
    }

    async function handleLinkify() {
        try {
            var clipboardText = await navigator.clipboard.readText();

            if (!clipboardText || !clipboardText.trim()) {
                mw.notify('Clipboard is empty.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var output = linkifyList(clipboardText);

            if (!output || !output.trim()) {
                mw.notify('No valid lines found in clipboard.', { type: 'warn' });
                return;
            }

            var text = textbox.value;

            var match = text.match(/\{\{\s*Infosection\s*\|\s*name\s*=\s*Related articles\s*\|\s*\n/i);

            if (!match) {
                mw.notify('Related articles section not found. Inserting at cursor.', { type: 'warn' });
                insertAtCursor(textbox, output);
            } else {
                var insertIndex = match.index + match[0].length;

                textbox.value =
                    text.slice(0, insertIndex) +
                    output + '\n' +
                    text.slice(insertIndex);

                textbox.focus();
            }

            appendEditSummary('Remove DPL, replacing with static list [[Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous#Board of Trustees Approves Closure of Wikinews|pending closure of the project]].');

            mw.notify('Linked list inserted.', { type: 'success' });

        } catch (err) {
            console.error('Template-rebuild clipboard error:', err);
            mw.notify('Could not read clipboard.', { type: 'error' });
        }
    }

    function findInfoboxCall(text) {
        // Matches {{Infobox|Pakistan}}
        // Allows whitespace and case variation in &quot;Infobox&quot;
        var regex = /\{\{\s*[Ii]nfobox\s*\|\s*([^|}\n]+?)\s*\}\}/;
        return text.match(regex);
    }

    function buildReplacement(name) {
        return [
            '{{InfoboxStart|infotitle=' + name + '}}',
            '[[Image:' + name + ' (orthographic projection).svg|200px|center]]',
            '{{Infosection|name=Related articles|',
            '}}',
            '{{Infosection|name=Read more|[[File:Flag of ' + name + '.svg|90px|center|link=Category:' + name + ']]}}',
            '{{InfoboxEnd}}'
        ].join('\n');
    }

    function removeLanguageCategoryLines(text) {
        var lines = text.split(/\r?\n/);
        var kept = [];
        var removedAny = false;

        lines.forEach(function (line) {
            var trimmed = line.trim();

            // Matches lines like:
            // [[es:Plantilla:Perú]]
            // [[pt:Predefinição:Infotabela Peru]]
            // [[ru:Шаблон:Перу]]
            if (/^\[\[[a-z]{2}:[^\]]+\]\]$/i.test(trimmed)) {
                removedAny = true;
                return;
            }

            kept.push(line);
        });

        return {
            text: kept.join('\n'),
            removedAny: removedAny
        };
    }

    function handleReplaceInfobox() {
        var text = textbox.value;
        var match = findInfoboxCall(text);

        if (!match) {
            mw.notify('No {{Infobox|...}} found.', { type: 'warn' });
            return;
        }

        var placeName = match[1].trim();
        var replacement = buildReplacement(placeName);

        text = text.replace(match[0], replacement);

        var languageCleanup = removeLanguageCategoryLines(text);
        textbox.value = languageCleanup.text;
        textbox.focus();

        if (languageCleanup.removedAny) {
            appendEditSummary('Translation links now handled by wikidata.');
        }

        mw.notify('{{Infobox}} replaced.', { type: 'success' });
    }

    // Always available
    addActionLink(
        'ca-linkify-list',
        'Linkify List',
        'Convert clipboard list into wikilinks and insert into Related articles',
        handleLinkify
    );

    // Only show if {{Infobox|...}} exists in page text
    if (findInfoboxCall(textbox.value)) {
        addActionLink(
            'ca-replace-infobox',
            'Replace {{Infobox}}',
            'Replace {{Infobox|...}} with expanded infobox markup',
            handleReplaceInfobox
        );
    }

}());</text>
      <sha1>5ssdjq8g7i3yvfswskptq4de2x6pphh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Nekrokvlto</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092000</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008431</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:55:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008431</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="sfxyklgcv4wju7u3lw99q93p0nx07x8" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Nekrokvlto}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sfxyklgcv4wju7u3lw99q93p0nx07x8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Beardedvet222</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092001</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008433</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T17:59:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008433</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="kyvcz61x50740y2yqft4ioog57ulnhh" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Beardedvet222}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 17:59, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kyvcz61x50740y2yqft4ioog57ulnhh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:EpitomeOfParacosm</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092002</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008437</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:04:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008437</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="165" sha1="rboihb3c217h4u5230qkzayp9idnp23" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=EpitomeOfParacosm}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 18:04, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rboihb3c217h4u5230qkzayp9idnp23</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Cristiano Nobre</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092003</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008445</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:25:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008445</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="ju7wtsis4vz7cjeflsjgl6wmi6nsmti" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Cristiano Nobre}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 18:25, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ju7wtsis4vz7cjeflsjgl6wmi6nsmti</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Violetdoesntexist</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092004</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008446</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:26:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008446</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="165" sha1="tts8a3zzsemxoxb1bdeanr423qzizph" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Violetdoesntexist}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 18:26, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tts8a3zzsemxoxb1bdeanr423qzizph</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Joardao</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092006</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008452</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:33:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008452</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="kzxwebl3srndhx9wciw5vwhfdedg8g1" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Joardao}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 18:33, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kzxwebl3srndhx9wciw5vwhfdedg8g1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Kristhell Mandujano</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092007</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008456</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:38:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008456</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="167" sha1="fdksta46nknba9n60fko0uqkb0lpi4z" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Kristhell Mandujano}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 18:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fdksta46nknba9n60fko0uqkb0lpi4z</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:TurkMapper</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092008</id>
    <redirect title="User talk:At1as" />
    <revision>
      <id>5008464</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:44:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>HakanIST</username>
        <id>2143175</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>HakanIST moved page [[User talk:TurkMapper]] to [[User talk:At1as]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/TurkMapper|TurkMapper]]&quot; to &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/At1as|At1as]]&quot;</comment>
      <origin>5008464</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="29" sha1="2v0ybcnf5dnf3ehkrzo40qr9u49ax0t" xml:space="preserve">#REDIRECT [[User talk:At1as]]</text>
      <sha1>2v0ybcnf5dnf3ehkrzo40qr9u49ax0t</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Muthumaniventan</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092009</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008471</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T18:54:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008471</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="bymhufxt4n12q9k5tgp7f408m2mjkc4" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Muthumaniventan}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 18:54, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bymhufxt4n12q9k5tgp7f408m2mjkc4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Tevilainen</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092010</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008480</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:01:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008480</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="dfrgnri4zlhhb8bns3zna0c6xgvx36r" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Tevilainen}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 19:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dfrgnri4zlhhb8bns3zna0c6xgvx36r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:YorlynBC</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092011</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008485</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:04:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008485</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="6c5cwqbrmsq5bnem3mjnffieoid9yz2" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=YorlynBC}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 19:04, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6c5cwqbrmsq5bnem3mjnffieoid9yz2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Hkgu</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092012</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008502</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:15:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008502</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="152" sha1="28ts8b8emqx5hn0l5k38ziogcciqreb" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Hkgu}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 19:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>28ts8b8emqx5hn0l5k38ziogcciqreb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:K1moRebi</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092013</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008503</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:18:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008503</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="cxjixu0zy034y43l5q1h485n748s1bt" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=K1moRebi}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 19:18, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cxjixu0zy034y43l5q1h485n748s1bt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:EVELYN VANHOY</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092014</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008504</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:19:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008504</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="pl7z8xxih6aevilea2vscw7bbyeq6ri" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=EVELYN VANHOY}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 19:19, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pl7z8xxih6aevilea2vscw7bbyeq6ri</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Majo0008</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092015</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008505</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:22:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008505</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="mxb3aszj8h26mpb1p8buc2t5he51yra" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Majo0008}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 19:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mxb3aszj8h26mpb1p8buc2t5he51yra</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Wikinews talk:2026 Wind-down Wikinews</title>
    <ns>5</ns>
    <id>3092016</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008506</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:29:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Bot to convert DPL to static lists */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008506</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="998" sha1="2izswa0mtx5bpz4rjfw9phadgdl4hth" xml:space="preserve">== Bot to convert DPL to static lists ==

@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], thanks for [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T421796#11825297 the link] to the Phabricator conversation. Are you comfortable running the bot mentioned by [[User:Ladsgroup|Ladsgroup]]? I've personally never used a bot. 

We'd also have to get bot+admin privileges, and possibly flood? That may take some time to get approved by the community and implemented by one of our 'crats (or a steward if neither respond). 

If its possible, we should get a manual test run as a proof-of-concept first, as it will impact nearly every single published article. 

Will it produce output of some sort, some where, so we can tell what pages were affected? I'd imagine we want to hold of on changing pages such as Main page, Newsroom, etc until the last minute if we could. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:29, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2izswa0mtx5bpz4rjfw9phadgdl4hth</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008512</id>
      <parentid>5008506</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:59:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Koavf</username>
        <id>5879</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Bot to convert DPL to static lists */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>5008512</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1455" sha1="gfxcb9nikx5be015pi2v4drpqu2h22u" xml:space="preserve">== Bot to convert DPL to static lists ==

@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], thanks for [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T421796#11825297 the link] to the Phabricator conversation. Are you comfortable running the bot mentioned by [[User:Ladsgroup|Ladsgroup]]? I've personally never used a bot. 

We'd also have to get bot+admin privileges, and possibly flood? That may take some time to get approved by the community and implemented by one of our 'crats (or a steward if neither respond). 

If its possible, we should get a manual test run as a proof-of-concept first, as it will impact nearly every single published article. 

Will it produce output of some sort, some where, so we can tell what pages were affected? I'd imagine we want to hold of on changing pages such as Main page, Newsroom, etc until the last minute if we could. [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 19:29, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

:Tragically, I am too ignorant to run the bot, but to answer just one of your good questions, yes, anyone running it should have a flood flag. I'd recommend posting to Phab and asking if a user there is competent to run the bot. :/ —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 19:59, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gfxcb9nikx5be015pi2v4drpqu2h22u</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Brazil defeat Zambia 6-1</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>3092017</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008507</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:37:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Maroontruths</username>
        <id>2899178</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Page created with &quot;Brazil women's national team defeat Zambia 6-1 in a friendly. [[File:Selection feminine.jpg|thumb]] On the 15th April 2026, Brazil defeat Zambia in a thrilling 6-1 thrashing. Zambia and Brazil's national teams have been on a similar run of form, with Zambia having 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses whilst Brazil have 3 wins and 2 losses in their last five. Only being 1-0 at the break, Brazil then went on to score five whilst Zambia's first-choice goalkeeper Nali got a red card,...&quot;</comment>
      <origin>5008507</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1136" sha1="nwctc4m8e6kgvg1jw0sectln37mmwni" xml:space="preserve">Brazil women's national team defeat Zambia 6-1 in a friendly. [[File:Selection feminine.jpg|thumb]]
On the 15th April 2026, Brazil defeat Zambia in a thrilling 6-1 thrashing. Zambia and Brazil's national teams have been on a similar run of form, with Zambia having 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses whilst Brazil have 3 wins and 2 losses in their last five. Only being 1-0 at the break, Brazil then went on to score five whilst Zambia's first-choice goalkeeper Nali got a red card, Zambia were reduced to 10 women. Zabmia's Banda scored their only goal in the 51st minute, whilst Brazil's scorers were Yasmim (30'), Tainá Maranhão (47'), Angelina (60' pen), Raissa Bahia (77'), Kerolin (90'+1) and Vitória Calhau (90'+6 pen). 2 of Brazil's goals were from penalties. Nali's red card was likely the reason Zambia got thrashed so hard.

== Sources ==
* {{source
| url        = https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cwywre0w7d7t
| title      = Brazil vs Zambia: Friendlies Women stats &amp; head-to-head
| author     = BBC
| pub        = BBC Sport
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = en
| medium     = Match report
}}</text>
      <sha1>nwctc4m8e6kgvg1jw0sectln37mmwni</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008704</id>
      <parentid>5008507</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:09:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>add required elements</comment>
      <origin>5008704</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1307" sha1="936wgtjihl92njutixhat2exc4ws43s" xml:space="preserve">{{Develop}}
{{Date|April 15, 2026}}

Brazil women's national team defeat Zambia 6-1 in a friendly. [[File:Selection feminine.jpg|thumb]]
On the 15th April 2026, Brazil defeat Zambia in a thrilling 6-1 thrashing. Zambia and Brazil's national teams have been on a similar run of form, with Zambia having 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses whilst Brazil have 3 wins and 2 losses in their last five. Only being 1-0 at the break, Brazil then went on to score five whilst Zambia's first-choice goalkeeper Nali got a red card, Zambia were reduced to 10 women. Zabmia's Banda scored their only goal in the 51st minute, whilst Brazil's scorers were Yasmim (30'), Tainá Maranhão (47'), Angelina (60' pen), Raissa Bahia (77'), Kerolin (90'+1) and Vitória Calhau (90'+6 pen). 2 of Brazil's goals were from penalties. Nali's red card was likely the reason Zambia got thrashed so hard.

{{Haveyoursay}}

== Sources ==
* {{source
| url        = https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cwywre0w7d7t
| title      = Brazil vs Zambia: Friendlies Women stats &amp; head-to-head
| author     = BBC
| pub        = BBC Sport
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = en
| medium     = Match report
}}
*{{source
|url        = 
|title      = 
|author     = 
|pub        = 
|date       = 
|archiveurl = 
|medium     =
}}</text>
      <sha1>936wgtjihl92njutixhat2exc4ws43s</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008771</id>
      <parentid>5008704</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:11:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>ce</comment>
      <origin>5008771</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1407" sha1="002i83kgju3iq8vq4lisfxo5b54x4qx" xml:space="preserve">{{Develop}}
{{Date|April 15, 2026}}

{{w|Brazil women's national football team}} defeated {{w|Zambia women's national football team|Zambia}} 6-1 in a friendly. [[File:Selection feminine.jpg|thumb]]
On 15 April 2026, Brazil defeated Zambia in a thrilling 6-1 thrashing. Zambia's and Brazil's national teams have been on a similar run of form, with Zambia having 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses in their last five matches, whilst Brazil have 3 wins and 2 losses in their last five. Only being 1-0 at the break, Brazil then went on to score five. When Zambia's first-choice goalkeeper Nali got a red card, Zambia were reduced to 10 women. Zambia's Banda scored their only goal in the 51st minute, whilst Brazil's scorers were {{w|Yasmim}} (30'), {{w|Tainá Maranhão}} (47'), {{w|Angelina (footballer)|Angelina}} (60' pen), {{w|Raissa Bahia}} (77'), {{w|Kerolin}} (90'+1) and {{w|Vitória Calhau}} (90'+6 pen). Two of Brazil's goals were from penalties. Nali's red card was likely the reason Zambia got thrashed so hard.

{{Haveyoursay}}

== Sources ==
* {{source
| url        = https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cwywre0w7d7t
| title      = Brazil vs Zambia: Friendlies Women stats &amp; head-to-head
| author     = BBC
| pub        = BBC Sport
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
}}
*{{source
|url        = 
|title      = 
|author     = 
|pub        = 
|date       = 
|archiveurl = 
|medium     =
}}</text>
      <sha1>002i83kgju3iq8vq4lisfxo5b54x4qx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008773</id>
      <parentid>5008771</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:13:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Metropolitan90</username>
        <id>314212</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>add cats</comment>
      <origin>5008773</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1535" sha1="g0g40w45vw1o619kc6oi0zsd0w2o6xr" xml:space="preserve">{{Develop}}
{{Date|April 15, 2026}}

{{w|Brazil women's national football team}} defeated {{w|Zambia women's national football team|Zambia}} 6-1 in a friendly. [[File:Selection feminine.jpg|thumb]]
On 15 April 2026, Brazil defeated Zambia in a thrilling 6-1 thrashing. Zambia's and Brazil's national teams have been on a similar run of form, with Zambia having 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses in their last five matches, whilst Brazil have 3 wins and 2 losses in their last five. Only being 1-0 at the break, Brazil then went on to score five. When Zambia's first-choice goalkeeper Nali got a red card, Zambia were reduced to 10 women. Zambia's Banda scored their only goal in the 51st minute, whilst Brazil's scorers were {{w|Yasmim}} (30'), {{w|Tainá Maranhão}} (47'), {{w|Angelina (footballer)|Angelina}} (60' pen), {{w|Raissa Bahia}} (77'), {{w|Kerolin}} (90'+1) and {{w|Vitória Calhau}} (90'+6 pen). Two of Brazil's goals were from penalties. Nali's red card was likely the reason Zambia got thrashed so hard.

{{Haveyoursay}}

== Sources ==
* {{source
| url        = https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cwywre0w7d7t
| title      = Brazil vs Zambia: Friendlies Women stats &amp; head-to-head
| author     = BBC
| pub        = BBC Sport
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
}}
*{{source
|url        = 
|title      = 
|author     = 
|pub        = 
|date       = 
|archiveurl = 
|medium     =
}}

[[Category:Sports]]
[[Category:Football (soccer)]]
[[Category:Football match reports]]
[[Category:Brazil]]
[[Category:Zambia]]</text>
      <sha1>g0g40w45vw1o619kc6oi0zsd0w2o6xr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Lkhooton</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092018</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008508</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:42:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008508</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="pejhwpzvy44ldcm3582upb8f23xnu0z" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Lkhooton}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 19:42, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pejhwpzvy44ldcm3582upb8f23xnu0z</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Accused Mafia Captain Walks Free After Racketeering Trial Ends in Acquittal</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>3092019</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008509</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:46:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>StevenMondaw1</username>
        <id>2944115</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Page created with &quot;{{develop}}{{date|{{subst:#time:F j, Y}}}}  Brooklyn mob figure Dean “Knuckles” Prestia, a reputed captain in the Genovese crime family, walked free after a racketeering trial ended in acquittal, delivering a sharp setback to prosecutors who had tried to tie him to organized crime activity in New York City. Prestia, long described by law enforcement and criminal-world sources as a violent and ruthless presence in Brooklyn, had been facing serious allegations tied to...&quot;</comment>
      <origin>5008509</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text bytes="4020" sha1="0npwtd1rgx3s3xbzl7exnx36rqfq79p" xml:space="preserve">{{develop}}{{date|April 15, 2026}}

Brooklyn mob figure Dean “Knuckles” Prestia, a reputed captain in the Genovese crime family, walked free after a racketeering trial ended in acquittal, delivering a sharp setback to prosecutors who had tried to tie him to organized crime activity in New York City. Prestia, long described by law enforcement and criminal-world sources as a violent and ruthless presence in Brooklyn, had been facing serious allegations tied to violent racketeering and other underworld conduct.

Prestia, who has been linked to the Genovese family for decades, built a reputation around intimidation and toughness, earning the nickname “Knuckles.” Public reporting describes him as a Brooklyn-based figure with ties to organized crime in both Brooklyn and Long Island, and one account says he was the subject of an FBI probe in early 2026 involving waste, demolition, and towing companies. In the broader federal crackdown on Mafia activity in the region, prosecutors have repeatedly argued that organized crime families use violence, fear, and clandestine business fronts to control revenue streams.

The acquittal marks a notable win for Prestia and his defense, especially given the government’s long-running focus on dismantling the Genovese organization’s rackets in New York. Even so, the verdict does not erase the decades of allegations, associations, and notoriety that have followed him through Brooklyn’s organized-crime landscape.

'''Background'''

Dean Prestia is widely identified in public reporting as “Dean ‘Knuckles’ Prestia,” a Genovese crime family figure associated with Brooklyn. Sources describe him as having spent years around mob-connected figures and later rising within the organization. He has also been mentioned in connection with past organized-crime prosecutions involving extortion and conspiracy-related conduct.

'''Trial outcome'''

The racketeering case ended with Prestia being acquitted, allowing him to avoid conviction on the charges brought against him. That outcome stands in contrast to the federal government’s continuing efforts to target Mafia leadership and associates through racketeering cases in New York. For prosecutors, the loss underscores how difficult it can be to secure convictions in complex organized-crime cases, especially when evidence is built around association, reputation, and coded conduct rather than direct public acts.

'''Mob reputation'''

Prestia’s name has long carried a reputation for violence and ruthlessness in Brooklyn’s underworld circles. Reporting linked to his background describes him as someone who moved through mob networks from a young age and became associated with hardened figures in the Genovese orbit. In organized crime reporting more broadly, violence remains a central tool of enforcement and intimidation, even as some families try to avoid public attention
{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 


* {{source
| url        = https://medium.com/@m14399833/case-collapses-alleged-genovese-captain-cleared-of-violent-racketeering-charges-dd9c550186b4
| title      = Case Collapses: Alleged Genovese Captain Cleared of Violent Racketeering Charges
| author     = Marissa Monroe
| pub        = Medium
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = 
| medium     = 
}}
*{{source|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/23/nyregion/nba-gambling-mafia-gambino-genovese-bonanno-luchese.html
|title=New York City’s Mob Families Are Still in Business
|author=NY Times
|pub=
|date=April 15, 2026
}}
*{{source|url=https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Genovese_Crime_Family_Captain_Dean_Prestia
|title=Genovese Crime Family Captain Dean Prestia
|author=WikiNews
|pub=
|date=April 15, 2026
}}
* {{source
| url        = https://www.reddit.com/r/Mafia/comments/1qzozw8/genovese_crime_family_soldier_dean_prestia/
| title      = Reddit - Please wait for verification
| author     = 
| pub        = www.reddit.com
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = 
| medium     = 
}}</text>
      <sha1>0npwtd1rgx3s3xbzl7exnx36rqfq79p</sha1>
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      <id>5008510</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>StevenMondaw1</username>
        <id>2944115</id>
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      <comment>Submitting article for review (via [[MediaWiki:SubmitWizard.js/doc|SubmitWizard]])</comment>
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      <text bytes="4020" sha1="9ynswm7g37mcnkshew7l7j6wc0q863o" xml:space="preserve">{{Review}}
{{date|April 15, 2026}}

Brooklyn mob figure Dean “Knuckles” Prestia, a reputed captain in the Genovese crime family, walked free after a racketeering trial ended in acquittal, delivering a sharp setback to prosecutors who had tried to tie him to organized crime activity in New York City. Prestia, long described by law enforcement and criminal-world sources as a violent and ruthless presence in Brooklyn, had been facing serious allegations tied to violent racketeering and other underworld conduct.

Prestia, who has been linked to the Genovese family for decades, built a reputation around intimidation and toughness, earning the nickname “Knuckles.” Public reporting describes him as a Brooklyn-based figure with ties to organized crime in both Brooklyn and Long Island, and one account says he was the subject of an FBI probe in early 2026 involving waste, demolition, and towing companies. In the broader federal crackdown on Mafia activity in the region, prosecutors have repeatedly argued that organized crime families use violence, fear, and clandestine business fronts to control revenue streams.

The acquittal marks a notable win for Prestia and his defense, especially given the government’s long-running focus on dismantling the Genovese organization’s rackets in New York. Even so, the verdict does not erase the decades of allegations, associations, and notoriety that have followed him through Brooklyn’s organized-crime landscape.

'''Background'''

Dean Prestia is widely identified in public reporting as “Dean ‘Knuckles’ Prestia,” a Genovese crime family figure associated with Brooklyn. Sources describe him as having spent years around mob-connected figures and later rising within the organization. He has also been mentioned in connection with past organized-crime prosecutions involving extortion and conspiracy-related conduct.

'''Trial outcome'''

The racketeering case ended with Prestia being acquitted, allowing him to avoid conviction on the charges brought against him. That outcome stands in contrast to the federal government’s continuing efforts to target Mafia leadership and associates through racketeering cases in New York. For prosecutors, the loss underscores how difficult it can be to secure convictions in complex organized-crime cases, especially when evidence is built around association, reputation, and coded conduct rather than direct public acts.

'''Mob reputation'''

Prestia’s name has long carried a reputation for violence and ruthlessness in Brooklyn’s underworld circles. Reporting linked to his background describes him as someone who moved through mob networks from a young age and became associated with hardened figures in the Genovese orbit. In organized crime reporting more broadly, violence remains a central tool of enforcement and intimidation, even as some families try to avoid public attention
{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 


* {{source
| url        = https://medium.com/@m14399833/case-collapses-alleged-genovese-captain-cleared-of-violent-racketeering-charges-dd9c550186b4
| title      = Case Collapses: Alleged Genovese Captain Cleared of Violent Racketeering Charges
| author     = Marissa Monroe
| pub        = Medium
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = 
| medium     = 
}}
*{{source|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/23/nyregion/nba-gambling-mafia-gambino-genovese-bonanno-luchese.html
|title=New York City’s Mob Families Are Still in Business
|author=NY Times
|pub=
|date=April 15, 2026
}}
*{{source|url=https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Genovese_Crime_Family_Captain_Dean_Prestia
|title=Genovese Crime Family Captain Dean Prestia
|author=WikiNews
|pub=
|date=April 15, 2026
}}
* {{source
| url        = https://www.reddit.com/r/Mafia/comments/1qzozw8/genovese_crime_family_soldier_dean_prestia/
| title      = Reddit - Please wait for verification
| author     = 
| pub        = www.reddit.com
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = 
| medium     = 
}}</text>
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        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Marking article as under review (via [[WN:EzPR_2025|EasyPeerReview 2025]])</comment>
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{{Review}}
{{date|April 15, 2026}}

Brooklyn mob figure Dean “Knuckles” Prestia, a reputed captain in the Genovese crime family, walked free after a racketeering trial ended in acquittal, delivering a sharp setback to prosecutors who had tried to tie him to organized crime activity in New York City. Prestia, long described by law enforcement and criminal-world sources as a violent and ruthless presence in Brooklyn, had been facing serious allegations tied to violent racketeering and other underworld conduct.

Prestia, who has been linked to the Genovese family for decades, built a reputation around intimidation and toughness, earning the nickname “Knuckles.” Public reporting describes him as a Brooklyn-based figure with ties to organized crime in both Brooklyn and Long Island, and one account says he was the subject of an FBI probe in early 2026 involving waste, demolition, and towing companies. In the broader federal crackdown on Mafia activity in the region, prosecutors have repeatedly argued that organized crime families use violence, fear, and clandestine business fronts to control revenue streams.

The acquittal marks a notable win for Prestia and his defense, especially given the government’s long-running focus on dismantling the Genovese organization’s rackets in New York. Even so, the verdict does not erase the decades of allegations, associations, and notoriety that have followed him through Brooklyn’s organized-crime landscape.

'''Background'''

Dean Prestia is widely identified in public reporting as “Dean ‘Knuckles’ Prestia,” a Genovese crime family figure associated with Brooklyn. Sources describe him as having spent years around mob-connected figures and later rising within the organization. He has also been mentioned in connection with past organized-crime prosecutions involving extortion and conspiracy-related conduct.

'''Trial outcome'''

The racketeering case ended with Prestia being acquitted, allowing him to avoid conviction on the charges brought against him. That outcome stands in contrast to the federal government’s continuing efforts to target Mafia leadership and associates through racketeering cases in New York. For prosecutors, the loss underscores how difficult it can be to secure convictions in complex organized-crime cases, especially when evidence is built around association, reputation, and coded conduct rather than direct public acts.

'''Mob reputation'''

Prestia’s name has long carried a reputation for violence and ruthlessness in Brooklyn’s underworld circles. Reporting linked to his background describes him as someone who moved through mob networks from a young age and became associated with hardened figures in the Genovese orbit. In organized crime reporting more broadly, violence remains a central tool of enforcement and intimidation, even as some families try to avoid public attention
{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 


* {{source
| url        = https://medium.com/@m14399833/case-collapses-alleged-genovese-captain-cleared-of-violent-racketeering-charges-dd9c550186b4
| title      = Case Collapses: Alleged Genovese Captain Cleared of Violent Racketeering Charges
| author     = Marissa Monroe
| pub        = Medium
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = 
| medium     = 
}}
*{{source|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/23/nyregion/nba-gambling-mafia-gambino-genovese-bonanno-luchese.html
|title=New York City’s Mob Families Are Still in Business
|author=NY Times
|pub=
|date=April 15, 2026
}}
*{{source|url=https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Genovese_Crime_Family_Captain_Dean_Prestia
|title=Genovese Crime Family Captain Dean Prestia
|author=WikiNews
|pub=
|date=April 15, 2026
}}
* {{source
| url        = https://www.reddit.com/r/Mafia/comments/1qzozw8/genovese_crime_family_soldier_dean_prestia/
| title      = Reddit - Please wait for verification
| author     = 
| pub        = www.reddit.com
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = 
| medium     = 
}}</text>
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        <id>1936983</id>
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      <comment>Not ready when reviewed: article needs improvement(s). Add article flag. (via [[WN:EzPR_2025|EasyPeerReview 2025]])</comment>
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{{date|April 15, 2026}}

Brooklyn mob figure Dean “Knuckles” Prestia, a reputed captain in the Genovese crime family, walked free after a racketeering trial ended in acquittal, delivering a sharp setback to prosecutors who had tried to tie him to organized crime activity in New York City. Prestia, long described by law enforcement and criminal-world sources as a violent and ruthless presence in Brooklyn, had been facing serious allegations tied to violent racketeering and other underworld conduct.

Prestia, who has been linked to the Genovese family for decades, built a reputation around intimidation and toughness, earning the nickname “Knuckles.” Public reporting describes him as a Brooklyn-based figure with ties to organized crime in both Brooklyn and Long Island, and one account says he was the subject of an FBI probe in early 2026 involving waste, demolition, and towing companies. In the broader federal crackdown on Mafia activity in the region, prosecutors have repeatedly argued that organized crime families use violence, fear, and clandestine business fronts to control revenue streams.

The acquittal marks a notable win for Prestia and his defense, especially given the government’s long-running focus on dismantling the Genovese organization’s rackets in New York. Even so, the verdict does not erase the decades of allegations, associations, and notoriety that have followed him through Brooklyn’s organized-crime landscape.

'''Background'''

Dean Prestia is widely identified in public reporting as “Dean ‘Knuckles’ Prestia,” a Genovese crime family figure associated with Brooklyn. Sources describe him as having spent years around mob-connected figures and later rising within the organization. He has also been mentioned in connection with past organized-crime prosecutions involving extortion and conspiracy-related conduct.

'''Trial outcome'''

The racketeering case ended with Prestia being acquitted, allowing him to avoid conviction on the charges brought against him. That outcome stands in contrast to the federal government’s continuing efforts to target Mafia leadership and associates through racketeering cases in New York. For prosecutors, the loss underscores how difficult it can be to secure convictions in complex organized-crime cases, especially when evidence is built around association, reputation, and coded conduct rather than direct public acts.

'''Mob reputation'''

Prestia’s name has long carried a reputation for violence and ruthlessness in Brooklyn’s underworld circles. Reporting linked to his background describes him as someone who moved through mob networks from a young age and became associated with hardened figures in the Genovese orbit. In organized crime reporting more broadly, violence remains a central tool of enforcement and intimidation, even as some families try to avoid public attention
{{haveyoursay}}
== Sources == 

* {{source
| url        = https://medium.com/@m14399833/case-collapses-alleged-genovese-captain-cleared-of-violent-racketeering-charges-dd9c550186b4
| title      = Case Collapses: Alleged Genovese Captain Cleared of Violent Racketeering Charges
| author     = Marissa Monroe
| pub        = Medium
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = 
| medium     = 
}}
*{{source|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/23/nyregion/nba-gambling-mafia-gambino-genovese-bonanno-luchese.html
|title=New York City’s Mob Families Are Still in Business
|author=NY Times
|pub=
|date=April 15, 2026
}}
*{{source|url=https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Genovese_Crime_Family_Captain_Dean_Prestia
|title=Genovese Crime Family Captain Dean Prestia
|author=WikiNews
|pub=
|date=April 15, 2026
}}
* {{source
| url        = https://www.reddit.com/r/Mafia/comments/1qzozw8/genovese_crime_family_soldier_dean_prestia/
| title      = Reddit - Please wait for verification
| author     = 
| pub        = www.reddit.com
| date       = April 15, 2026
| archiveurl = 
| lang       = 
| medium     = 
}}</text>
      <sha1>8i0ed2qsop7k3wuthasrfqjoaufh032</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:Lady Of Mayhem</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092020</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008511</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T19:57:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 19:57, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>64pz3sa42kiuwxdi9uvhb17bj72gby8</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:Pykkedd</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
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      <id>5008513</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:05:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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      <text bytes="155" sha1="0w0zu5aalxuy7fd772yezbrz45wq4ns" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Pykkedd}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:05, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0w0zu5aalxuy7fd772yezbrz45wq4ns</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Nawako</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092022</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008514</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:07:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008514</origin>
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      <text bytes="154" sha1="enxspgx1n6q2iv80emz0iftsqu3jzi9" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Nawako}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>enxspgx1n6q2iv80emz0iftsqu3jzi9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Andy625</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092023</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008515</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:10:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008515</origin>
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      <text bytes="155" sha1="km9717wjyh17x56ba9jdvmq3kuuz8bi" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Andy625}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:10, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>km9717wjyh17x56ba9jdvmq3kuuz8bi</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:LeCracker04</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092024</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008517</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:11:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
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      <text bytes="159" sha1="rb6byioo7dms7ax4r9f6ierbt17kgpx" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=LeCracker04}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rb6byioo7dms7ax4r9f6ierbt17kgpx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Liu yi19930615</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092025</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008519</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:16:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008519</origin>
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      <text bytes="162" sha1="r80cpyuchopj9aua6dya4qdwff1gnni" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Liu yi19930615}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:16, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r80cpyuchopj9aua6dya4qdwff1gnni</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Bulbul96</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092026</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008534</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:23:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008534</origin>
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      <text bytes="156" sha1="ccmldgx6gwl4xh5oxt6lqyvs40nd38r" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Bulbul96}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:23, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ccmldgx6gwl4xh5oxt6lqyvs40nd38r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Youngreezyy</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092027</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008545</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:29:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008545</origin>
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      <text bytes="159" sha1="1oiipvomay77dz5ava4y93573ivv41g" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Youngreezyy}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:29, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1oiipvomay77dz5ava4y93573ivv41g</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Quince&amp;Medlar</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092028</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008552</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:36:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008552</origin>
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      <text bytes="161" sha1="40pah2di9vjhsnsbaspi0c61zhf14lb" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Quince&amp;Medlar}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>40pah2di9vjhsnsbaspi0c61zhf14lb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Bivo 3</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092029</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008553</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:38:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008553</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="154" sha1="bn2bx9hkoe60pn1h4gudlowklm0syhu" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Bivo 3}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bn2bx9hkoe60pn1h4gudlowklm0syhu</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Dmdjdu</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092030</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008554</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:41:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008554</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="154" sha1="ik1rq4i9mhsznr4z3kaibixr0h8x53x" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Dmdjdu}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:41, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ik1rq4i9mhsznr4z3kaibixr0h8x53x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Narchtwill</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092031</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008556</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:57:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008556</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="jyt0ouus9cg66664o8ijf5uwoik9sw0" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Narchtwill}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jyt0ouus9cg66664o8ijf5uwoik9sw0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Swtyanemshi</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092032</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008557</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T20:59:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008557</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="e6ext22y6pckg2ayjijwgh5w8zshr92" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Swtyanemshi}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 20:59, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>e6ext22y6pckg2ayjijwgh5w8zshr92</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Talk:Accused Mafia Captain Walks Free After Racketeering Trial Ends in Acquittal</title>
    <ns>1</ns>
    <id>3092033</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008560</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:05:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Review of revision 5008555</comment>
      <origin>5008560</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1500" sha1="jwjozodbrqdqejul2j8jxukczv3uq6z" xml:space="preserve">

== Review of revision 5008555 [Not Ready] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 5008555
| copyright = n/a
| newsworthy = The Medium and Reddit articles are not adequate sources, The NYTimes article is from last year, and the linked Wikinews article does not exist
| verifiable = In addition to issues with Newsworthiness that coincide with Verifiability, this article appears to be entirely AI-generated.
| npov = n/a
| style = n/a
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = This submission reflects a pattern of content previously created and deleted under the same account:

* [[Genovese Crime Family Captain Dean Prestia]]
* [[FBI probe examined alleged Genovese captain’s ties to NYC waste and towing firms]]
* [[Alleged Gambino crime family member John Prestia arrested in racketeering investigation]]
* [[Brooklyn Mobster Arrested on Violent Racketeering Charges]]
* [[Gambino Crime Family Soldier John Prestia]] (deleted four times)

The recurrence of similar, AI-generated content, combined with a lack of engagement on the user’s talk page when concerns were raised, led to [[User talk:StevenMondaw1#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260415205900-Vandalism|administrative action on the account]]. As a result, this article cannot proceed in its current form.[[Category:AI usage declared]]
| time = 21:04, April 15, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:05, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jwjozodbrqdqejul2j8jxukczv3uq6z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008562</id>
      <parentid>5008560</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:07:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* Review of revision 5008555 [Not Ready] */ typo</comment>
      <origin>5008562</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1500" sha1="bnld1dxq2229924nbtjfdl52sthc0qr" xml:space="preserve">

== Review of revision 5008555 [Not Ready] ==

{{Peer_reviewed
| revid = 5008555
| copyright = n/a
| newsworthy = The Medium and Reddit articles are not adequate sources, The NYTimes article is from last year, and the linked Wikinews article does not exist
| verifiable = In addition to issues with Newsworthiness that coincide with Verifiability, this article appears to be entirely AI-generated.
| npov = n/a
| style = n/a
| reviewer = Michael.C.Wright
| comments = This submission reflects a pattern of content previously created and deleted under the same account:

* [[Genovese Crime Family Captain Dean Prestia]]
* [[FBI probe examined alleged Genovese captain’s ties to NYC waste and towing firms]]
* [[Alleged Gambino crime family member John Prestia arrested in racketeering investigation]]
* [[Brooklyn Mobster Arrested on Violent Rackateering Charges]]
* [[Gambino Crime Family Soldier John Prestia]] (deleted four times)

The recurrence of similar, AI-generated content, combined with a lack of engagement on the user’s talk page when concerns were raised, led to [[User talk:StevenMondaw1#c-Michael.C.Wright-20260415205900-Vandalism|administrative action on the account]]. As a result, this article cannot proceed in its current form.[[Category:AI usage declared]]
| time = 21:04, April 15, 2026 (UTC)
}}

-- [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:05, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bnld1dxq2229924nbtjfdl52sthc0qr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:DR ALI SAAD MASAUD KAZOUZ</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092034</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008563</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:11:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008563</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="173" sha1="m66xfl8377qt48qvi1cgblxv9zp448f" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=DR ALI SAAD MASAUD KAZOUZ}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>m66xfl8377qt48qvi1cgblxv9zp448f</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Katuska093</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092035</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008564</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:12:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008564</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="t7qpa1we6c8ecwiecedxxmhgfii65vj" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Katuska093}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:12, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>t7qpa1we6c8ecwiecedxxmhgfii65vj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 1</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>3092036</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008565</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:14:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Trying to address issue with Main page, Lead templates, and possibly FlaggedRevs: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008565</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="528" sha1="gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On April 12, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008570</id>
      <parentid>5008565</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:17:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 1a]] to [[Template:Lead article 1]] without leaving a redirect: Possible problem caused by disabling FlaggedRevs on templates, per https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008565</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="528" sha1="gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On April 12, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008571</id>
      <parentid>5008570</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:17:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead1 with [[Australia grants refuge to five Iranian women's national soccer team players]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008571</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="550" sha1="3jjgmaxs520cevxbia2rzmpua1f0he5" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Zahra Ghanbari - 01.jpg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = Australia grants refuge to five Iranian women's national soccer team players
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Early Tuesday morning, Australia government officials issued humanitarian visas to five members of Iran’s national women’s football team. The players refused to sing the Iranian anthem while at the Women's Asian Cup last week.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>3jjgmaxs520cevxbia2rzmpua1f0he5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008572</id>
      <parentid>5008571</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:18:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead1 with [[United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008572</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="528" sha1="gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On April 12, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008584</id>
      <parentid>5008572</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:37:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead1 with [[Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008584</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="605" sha1="br1s1111re9o8qmjnafj5oc6k87mbxs" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and Roberta Piket on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>br1s1111re9o8qmjnafj5oc6k87mbxs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008585</id>
      <parentid>5008584</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:38:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updating Lead1 with [[United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz]] ([[User:Asked42/LeadManager|Lead Manager]])</comment>
      <origin>5008585</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="528" sha1="gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On April 12, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008619</id>
      <parentid>5008585</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:57:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Protected &quot;[[Template:Lead article 1]]&quot;: [[Wikinews:Protection policy|High use template]]: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 ([Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))</comment>
      <origin>5008585</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="528" sha1="gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 1 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Strait of Hormuz-svg-en.svg
 |width = 150x150px
 |type  = none
 |title = United States announces blockade on the Strait of Hormuz
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On April 12, United States President Donald Trump announced on Truth Social that the US is imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. According to Trump, the blockade was in effect as of 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time (1400 UTC).
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>gqlz6clmxgp75c829f8j2ph6glbsa4p</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Manana Soa</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092037</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008566</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:14:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008566</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="457d2p94vts7pgk50odo2qls7h6eh9s" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Manana Soa}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>457d2p94vts7pgk50odo2qls7h6eh9s</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:DR ALI SAAD MASAUD KAZOUZ</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>3092038</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008567</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:15:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DR ALI SAAD MASAUD KAZOUZ</username>
        <id>2954141</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>الأمن الدبلوماسي هو مجموعة من السياسات والإجراءات التي تهدف إلى حماية البعثات الدبلوماسية والعاملين فيها، خاصة في البيئات التي تعاني من عدم الاستقرار السياسي أو الأمني. ويُعد هذا المجال جزءًا من منظومة الأمن الوطني والدولي، حيث يرتبط ارتباطًا وثيقًا بمفاهيم الحوكمة وسيادة القانون والتعاون بين الدول.
تزداد أهمية الأمن الدبلوماسي في الدول الخارجة من النزاعات، حيث تواجه هذه الدول تحديات تتعلق بإعادة بناء مؤسساتها الأمنية وضمان حماية التمثيل الدبلوماسي الأجنبي. وتُشكل الأطر القانونية الدولية، مثل...</comment>
      <origin>5008567</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="208" sha1="3diop259vzwtebo9vn8fm606elohpic" xml:space="preserve">مساهم في مجالات الأمن الدولي والعلاقات الدبلوماسية، مهتم بتطوير مقالات تتعلق بالحوكمة وإعادة بناء مؤسسات الدولة.</text>
      <sha1>3diop259vzwtebo9vn8fm606elohpic</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Fx.lacerda</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092039</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008577</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:19:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008577</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="f2vq9aodp0czw2qy6uggcw976yo6cyb" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Fx.lacerda}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:19, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f2vq9aodp0czw2qy6uggcw976yo6cyb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Novsers</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092040</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008578</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:23:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008578</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="icc5zs5budsbql46vykvisnbezvf0a3" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Novsers}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:23, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>icc5zs5budsbql46vykvisnbezvf0a3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Nathan Veritas</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092042</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008580</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:25:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008580</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="30emyomtu9u41xr1pe71pz15cb49idm" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Nathan Veritas}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:25, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>30emyomtu9u41xr1pe71pz15cb49idm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Missael Zambrano</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092043</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008581</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:26:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008581</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="8zjnq6dllqcel7b24t9dau2zo0k4ovl" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Missael Zambrano}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:26, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8zjnq6dllqcel7b24t9dau2zo0k4ovl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Powwu</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092044</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008582</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:33:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008582</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="153" sha1="1q8vynnjnil42u0v3omnx8vchnlrc0j" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Powwu}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:33, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1q8vynnjnil42u0v3omnx8vchnlrc0j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 1</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>3092045</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008583</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:35:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work around for [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]]</comment>
      <origin>5008583</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1010" sha1="9sz9md4s6hmzlcmgxo3msarzgga9dkm" xml:space="preserve">== Template and talk page recreated ==
Possibly due to [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|limiting FlaggedRevs to the article namespace]]—which resulted in FlaggedRevs being disabled in the Template namespace—the Main Page stopped reflecting updates made to this template.

Following feedback from [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator T423512], I worked around this by creating a new template that had never had FlaggedRevs enabled. I then moved the existing template to [[:Template:Lead article 1 (OLD)]] and placed the new template at the original title, effectively replacing it.

The original talk page content was preserved at [[Template talk:Lead article 1 (OLD)]]. 

See also: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:35, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9sz9md4s6hmzlcmgxo3msarzgga9dkm</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 2</title>
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    <id>3092046</id>
    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:40:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008587</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="605" sha1="ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and Roberta Piket on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008590</id>
      <parentid>5008587</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:41:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 2a]] to [[Template:Lead article 2]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008587</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="605" sha1="ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and Roberta Piket on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008620</id>
      <parentid>5008590</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:57:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Protected &quot;[[Template:Lead article 2]]&quot;: [[Wikinews:Protection policy|High traffic page]]: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 ([Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))</comment>
      <origin>5008587</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="605" sha1="ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 2 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Musiclibrefemmes 08.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Musique Libre Femmes plays for Women's History Month at Tompkins Square Library in New York City
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Thursday, March 12, 2026, the Tompkins Square Library in New York City hosted a concert by Musique Libre Femmes, in its basement performance space. This performance featured Cheryl Pyle on flute, Ayumi Ishito on saxophones, and Roberta Piket on piano.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ajt2jm6vpemq37s1azlyg3mcfnkwe9j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Lotteroos.f</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092047</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008591</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:41:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008591</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="7f1q53osux5yvnoxwxz92qvxjh6opyj" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Lotteroos.f}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:41, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7f1q53osux5yvnoxwxz92qvxjh6opyj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Camiller1111</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092048</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008592</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:42:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008592</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="hqqrtbfucjitcii7m1hh9y4oxwyucap" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Camiller1111}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:42, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hqqrtbfucjitcii7m1hh9y4oxwyucap</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 2</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>3092049</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008593</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:43:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008593</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1010" sha1="sivjr2rdytvjaikfszucfnox9npo8wm" xml:space="preserve">== Template and talk page recreated ==
Possibly due to [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|limiting FlaggedRevs to the article namespace]]—which resulted in FlaggedRevs being disabled in the Template namespace—the Main Page stopped reflecting updates made to this template.

Following feedback from [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator T423512], I worked around this by creating a new template that had never had FlaggedRevs enabled. I then moved the existing template to [[:Template:Lead article 2 (OLD)]] and placed the new template at the original title, effectively replacing it.

The original talk page content was preserved at [[Template talk:Lead article 2 (OLD)]]. 

See also: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:43, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sivjr2rdytvjaikfszucfnox9npo8wm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Elwing</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092050</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008594</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:43:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008594</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="154" sha1="3sq1w2gowdbeth2mwxqm7stxl8tt96n" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Elwing}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:43, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3sq1w2gowdbeth2mwxqm7stxl8tt96n</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 3</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>3092051</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008596</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:44:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008596</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="783" sha1="mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
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 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008599</id>
      <parentid>5008596</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:45:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 3a]] to [[Template:Lead article 3]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008596</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="783" sha1="mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008621</id>
      <parentid>5008599</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:57:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Protected &quot;[[Template:Lead article 3]]&quot;: [[Wikinews:Protection policy|High use template]]: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 ([Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))</comment>
      <origin>5008596</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="783" sha1="mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On Tuesday, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mjmrhjik03fqqe2iybji58w615okron</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008625</id>
      <parentid>5008621</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:00:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Update date w/o time-sensitive word</comment>
      <origin>5008625</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="784" sha1="ai97u2ggrpehnxrna4vkq35iv0ezjpf" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 3 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Blue lightbar (fire and rescue).jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = South Korean military halts small firearms drills after stray bullet strikes young girl on playground
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = On March 19, officials for the South Korean Army said at a press conference that they were suspending all scheduled drills involving smaller firearms such as rifles and handguns. The decision was made in response to an incident earlier in the week on Monday that resulted in a young girl at a children playground in Daegu being injured near the neck by an alleged stray bullet from a military drill at nearby military facility.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ai97u2ggrpehnxrna4vkq35iv0ezjpf</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 3</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>3092052</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008600</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:47:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008600</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1010" sha1="7fqtoh0p4unknckus6srhhivva7zj22" xml:space="preserve">== Template and talk page recreated ==
Possibly due to [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|limiting FlaggedRevs to the article namespace]]—which resulted in FlaggedRevs being disabled in the Template namespace—the Main Page stopped reflecting updates made to this template.

Following feedback from [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator T423512], I worked around this by creating a new template that had never had FlaggedRevs enabled. I then moved the existing template to [[:Template:Lead article 1 (OLD)]] and placed the new template at the original title, effectively replacing it.

The original talk page content was preserved at [[Template talk:Lead article 1 (OLD)]]. 

See also: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:47, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7fqtoh0p4unknckus6srhhivva7zj22</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008610</id>
      <parentid>5008600</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:50:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Template and talk page recreated */ edit opening comment fix number ([[mw:c:Special:MyLanguage/User:JWBTH/CD|CD]])</comment>
      <origin>5008610</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1010" sha1="r47a99st754at63kig6r2336ygcdd8z" xml:space="preserve">== Template and talk page recreated ==
Possibly due to [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|limiting FlaggedRevs to the article namespace]]—which resulted in FlaggedRevs being disabled in the Template namespace—the Main Page stopped reflecting updates made to this template.

Following feedback from [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator T423512], I worked around this by creating a new template that had never had FlaggedRevs enabled. I then moved the existing template to [[:Template:Lead article 3 (OLD)]] and placed the new template at the original title, effectively replacing it.

The original talk page content was preserved at [[Template talk:Lead article 3 (OLD)]]. 

See also: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:47, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r47a99st754at63kig6r2336ygcdd8z</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Andreslence75</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092053</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008601</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:47:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008601</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="m8y25m19s9h9bljptcxi37bq2lims4d" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Andreslence75}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:47, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>m8y25m19s9h9bljptcxi37bq2lims4d</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 4</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>3092054</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008603</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:48:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008603</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="523" sha1="mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
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 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008606</id>
      <parentid>5008603</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:49:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 4a]] to [[Template:Lead article 4]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008603</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="523" sha1="mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 4 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Paul Thomas Anderson in 2025.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008622</id>
      <parentid>5008606</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:58:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Protected &quot;[[Template:Lead article 4]]&quot;: [[Wikinews:Protection policy|High use template]]: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 ([Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))</comment>
      <origin>5008603</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="523" sha1="mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 4 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Paul Thomas Anderson in 2025.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = none
 |title = &quot;One Battle After Another&quot; wins 6 Oscars including Best Picture
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = One Battle After Another was the big winner at the 98th Academy Awards ceremony, held on Sunday, March 15 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The film received six Oscars including Best Picture.
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>mq677lpw0qlf0rqnmntf42wxh32jha6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Andre3788</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092055</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008607</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:49:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008607</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="c09ii727n2hf2pinbw82gxiu0beud1r" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Andre3788}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:49, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c09ii727n2hf2pinbw82gxiu0beud1r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 4</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>3092056</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008608</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:49:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008608</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1010" sha1="dh32hihzzr5t66ir82rsnl3gnvdvjxa" xml:space="preserve">== Template and talk page recreated ==
Possibly due to [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|limiting FlaggedRevs to the article namespace]]—which resulted in FlaggedRevs being disabled in the Template namespace—the Main Page stopped reflecting updates made to this template.

Following feedback from [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator T423512], I worked around this by creating a new template that had never had FlaggedRevs enabled. I then moved the existing template to [[:Template:Lead article 1 (OLD)]] and placed the new template at the original title, effectively replacing it.

The original talk page content was preserved at [[Template talk:Lead article 1 (OLD)]]. 

See also: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:49, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dh32hihzzr5t66ir82rsnl3gnvdvjxa</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008609</id>
      <parentid>5008608</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:50:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>/* Template and talk page recreated */ fix number</comment>
      <origin>5008609</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1010" sha1="4vr1oc2db68fhlgd38gsfxgt8j5sb3w" xml:space="preserve">== Template and talk page recreated ==
Possibly due to [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|limiting FlaggedRevs to the article namespace]]—which resulted in FlaggedRevs being disabled in the Template namespace—the Main Page stopped reflecting updates made to this template.

Following feedback from [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator T423512], I worked around this by creating a new template that had never had FlaggedRevs enabled. I then moved the existing template to [[:Template:Lead article 4 (OLD)]] and placed the new template at the original title, effectively replacing it.

The original talk page content was preserved at [[Template talk:Lead article 4 (OLD)]]. 

See also: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:49, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4vr1oc2db68fhlgd38gsfxgt8j5sb3w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Kasenke umar</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092057</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008611</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:50:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008611</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="3zkz9zn8ytqcur6lkpasf8pdxp47i73" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Kasenke umar}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:50, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3zkz9zn8ytqcur6lkpasf8pdxp47i73</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008624</id>
      <parentid>5008611</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:59:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kasenke umar</username>
        <id>2954156</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Children drop out of school */ new section</comment>
      <origin>5008624</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="371" sha1="hhe08kvfbjgrq77n0y079gxea5r03m8" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Kasenke umar}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:50, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

== Children drop out of school ==

People who have money should help these children so that they can go to school [[User:Kasenke umar|Kasenke umar]] ([[User talk:Kasenke umar|talk]]) 21:59, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hhe08kvfbjgrq77n0y079gxea5r03m8</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template:Lead article 5</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>3092058</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008613</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:51:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008613</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="599" sha1="4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Caloundra FC kick off versus Pine Hills.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Caloundra have won their round 3 Football Queensland Premier League 2 game against Pine Hills 5 goals to 2 at Meridan Plains, Queensland, Australia on Sunday.&quot; Two [wins] from three [games]&quot; said Caloundra captain Kaine Frew.&quot;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008615</id>
      <parentid>5008613</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:52:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Michael.C.Wright moved page [[Template:Lead article 5a]] to [[Template:Lead article 5]] without leaving a redirect: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008613</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="599" sha1="4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Caloundra FC kick off versus Pine Hills.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Caloundra have won their round 3 Football Queensland Premier League 2 game against Pine Hills 5 goals to 2 at Meridan Plains, Queensland, Australia on Sunday.&quot; Two [wins] from three [games]&quot; said Caloundra captain Kaine Frew.&quot;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008623</id>
      <parentid>5008615</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:58:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Protected &quot;[[Template:Lead article 5]]&quot;: [[Wikinews:Protection policy|High use template]]: Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 ([Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))</comment>
      <origin>5008613</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="599" sha1="4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy" xml:space="preserve">{{Lead 2.0
 |id    = 5 &lt;!-- Do not change. Each lead must have its own unique ID --&gt;
 |image = Caloundra FC kick off versus Pine Hills.jpg
 |width = 100x100px
 |type  = original-report
 |title = Caloundra win round 3 game in Australian soccer's Football Queensland Premier League 2 competition
 |short_title = 
 |summary     = Caloundra have won their round 3 Football Queensland Premier League 2 game against Pine Hills 5 goals to 2 at Meridan Plains, Queensland, Australia on Sunday.&quot; Two [wins] from three [games]&quot; said Caloundra captain Kaine Frew.&quot;
}}&lt;noinclude&gt;{{Lead article doc}}&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>4e5ztp4gsrozvnwdrz2nup8ducs2kxy</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 5</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>3092059</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008616</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:53:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Work-around for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512</comment>
      <origin>5008616</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1010" sha1="8ctzfrgzkb674g7zxvpnywii92oly4n" xml:space="preserve">== Template and talk page recreated ==
Possibly due to [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|limiting FlaggedRevs to the article namespace]]—which resulted in FlaggedRevs being disabled in the Template namespace—the Main Page stopped reflecting updates made to this template.

Following feedback from [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator T423512], I worked around this by creating a new template that had never had FlaggedRevs enabled. I then moved the existing template to [[:Template:Lead article 5 (OLD)]] and placed the new template at the original title, effectively replacing it.

The original talk page content was preserved at [[Template talk:Lead article 5 (OLD)]]. 

See also: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:53, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8ctzfrgzkb674g7zxvpnywii92oly4n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008618</id>
      <parentid>5008616</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:55:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Template and talk page recreated */ edited</comment>
      <origin>5008618</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1149" sha1="dwclk1ds7xc07z3a6bjym324d5ix8lg" xml:space="preserve">== Template and talk page recreated ==
Possibly due to [[Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals#Limit the FlaggedRevs extension to the article namespace?|limiting FlaggedRevs to the article namespace]]—which resulted in FlaggedRevs being disabled in the Template namespace—the Main Page stopped reflecting updates made to this template.

Following feedback from [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T423512 Phabricator T423512], I worked around this by creating a new template that had never had FlaggedRevs enabled. I then moved the existing template to [[:Template:Lead article 5 (OLD)]] and placed the new template at the original title, effectively replacing it.

&lt;del&gt;The original talk page content was preserved at [[Template talk:Lead article 5 (OLD)]].&lt;/del&gt; &lt;ins&gt;There was no talk page previously on this template.&lt;/ins&gt; 

See also: [[Wikinews:Water cooler/technical#Main page leads not updating properly]] [[User:Michael.C.Wright|Michael.C.Wright]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Michael.C.Wright|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[User:Michael.C.Wright/reviewer|Reviewer]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 21:53, 15 April 2026 (UTC); edited, no previous talk page exited 21:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dwclk1ds7xc07z3a6bjym324d5ix8lg</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Kairatos</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092060</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008617</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T21:55:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008617</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="8gl5qjyyd7w6qbfcfbh8d29n8wze39h" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Kairatos}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 21:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8gl5qjyyd7w6qbfcfbh8d29n8wze39h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Bonjour2067</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092061</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008626</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:06:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008626</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="fahv6vdqms3o74i22gfe7xaplfftouy" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Bonjour2067}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:06, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fahv6vdqms3o74i22gfe7xaplfftouy</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Pedrocastilla1</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092062</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008627</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:08:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008627</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="8m7xxcwqa0dm5umldqgao3d4usb4i5t" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Pedrocastilla1}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:08, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8m7xxcwqa0dm5umldqgao3d4usb4i5t</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Jean.2edi</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092063</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008628</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:12:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008628</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="s9ofg0bbpnt657hnzr2ya5w9990yqs7" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Jean.2edi}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:12, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s9ofg0bbpnt657hnzr2ya5w9990yqs7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:P1ckledrad1sh</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092064</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008630</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:19:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008630</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="58gqvl6uipr3nendh2k4jjphlu5z063" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=P1ckledrad1sh}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:19, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>58gqvl6uipr3nendh2k4jjphlu5z063</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Sgnolls</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092065</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008631</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:20:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008631</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="cdrbfcx72y4k3r2d5tj9jzsk6rq4g24" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Sgnolls}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:20, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cdrbfcx72y4k3r2d5tj9jzsk6rq4g24</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Leafystrongman</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092066</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008632</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:26:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008632</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="agu7sptip6ebge8cbq8nqu39cbae74r" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Leafystrongman}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:26, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>agu7sptip6ebge8cbq8nqu39cbae74r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Xanneman</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092067</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008635</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:30:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008635</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="9v3hhovrn2bctvrkk55x5gyh6yejhpm" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Xanneman}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:30, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9v3hhovrn2bctvrkk55x5gyh6yejhpm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template talk:Lead article 5 (OLD)</title>
    <ns>11</ns>
    <id>3092068</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008643</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:36:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mark as historical</comment>
      <origin>5008643</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="59" sha1="eo2kht0b2zkn0qutn8ycb8dja5hfkg8" xml:space="preserve">{{Historical}}

:See also: [[Template talk:Lead article 5]]</text>
      <sha1>eo2kht0b2zkn0qutn8ycb8dja5hfkg8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Reynohun</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092069</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008644</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:36:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008644</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="qvplsyfsgfbabrgwrftfxy8ifa8fva5" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Reynohun}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qvplsyfsgfbabrgwrftfxy8ifa8fva5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Rafaelloaa</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092070</id>
    <redirect title="User talk:Raf42" />
    <revision>
      <id>5008648</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:37:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Mfield</username>
        <id>89407</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Mfield moved page [[User talk:Rafaelloaa]] to [[User talk:Raf42]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Rafaelloaa|Rafaelloaa]]&quot; to &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Raf42|Raf42]]&quot;</comment>
      <origin>5008648</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="29" sha1="9nc6h81upgjuq749lstceulcq8899tn" xml:space="preserve">#REDIRECT [[User talk:Raf42]]</text>
      <sha1>9nc6h81upgjuq749lstceulcq8899tn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Loae5loae</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092071</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008650</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:38:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008650</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="oqivm85ej0pm6x2madep6mdc1j3k0rc" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Loae5loae}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oqivm85ej0pm6x2madep6mdc1j3k0rc</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Aurefer</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092072</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008651</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:38:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008651</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="fxpszmt0ql4nruwirxi26n64t64mp2c" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Aurefer}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fxpszmt0ql4nruwirxi26n64t64mp2c</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Armando.franck</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092073</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008661</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:52:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008661</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="kx7xqokvxvz6suwshqxr3rjyhef8xqq" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Armando.franck}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kx7xqokvxvz6suwshqxr3rjyhef8xqq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Im lsbrar</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092074</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008669</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T22:58:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008669</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="dsjkkrya4wp34e247j99qps5jcf3033" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Im lsbrar}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 22:58, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dsjkkrya4wp34e247j99qps5jcf3033</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:S.Japeto</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092075</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008671</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:01:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008671</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="ngfog82ksg7xgrzyehvtr3c8q8bmcnh" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=S.Japeto}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ngfog82ksg7xgrzyehvtr3c8q8bmcnh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:SixSevenFan67</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092076</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008672</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:01:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008672</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="oxbhvckvm0atyykueyzxm56wx92m4cm" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=SixSevenFan67}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oxbhvckvm0atyykueyzxm56wx92m4cm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Cristalmoon 27</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092077</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008675</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:06:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008675</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="8y36hsiwy2pe8xhfd8r4s59uh8l9ysv" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Cristalmoon 27}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:06, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8y36hsiwy2pe8xhfd8r4s59uh8l9ysv</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:NotSoGreatRiley</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092078</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008676</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:07:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008676</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="l4xpuwwt5nfwfa7a4orcume8y5lth6y" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=NotSoGreatRiley}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>l4xpuwwt5nfwfa7a4orcume8y5lth6y</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Javieleuy</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092079</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008678</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:13:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008678</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="1tiotc5idb8t9289iz8um2korcrg8th" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Javieleuy}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:13, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1tiotc5idb8t9289iz8um2korcrg8th</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Category:Brexit</title>
    <ns>14</ns>
    <id>3092080</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008682</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:25:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Shiny new</comment>
      <origin>5008682</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="464" sha1="4ez7la7q9ivfkiq17rwurqe6du91h9b" xml:space="preserve">{{Topic cat
|the=1
|pipe=2016 referendum
|no comma=1
|intro= The withdrawal of the [[United Kingdom]] from the [[European Union]]
|image=Flag of brexit.svg
|imagecaption=The flag of the United Kingdom and the flag of the European Union combined.{{image credit|[[c:User:Robins7|Robins7]]}}
|portal=no
|offset={{{offset|0}}}
|sisterprojects=yes
|commons=Category:Brexit
|wikidata= Q7888194
|wikipedia=Brexit
}}
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:European Union]]</text>
      <sha1>4ez7la7q9ivfkiq17rwurqe6du91h9b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008685</id>
      <parentid>5008682</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:30:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>make portal?</comment>
      <origin>5008685</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="465" sha1="7up76m160p3k1jybwdige91iinq2jlm" xml:space="preserve">{{Topic cat
|the=1
|pipe=2016 referendum
|no comma=1
|intro= The withdrawal of the [[United Kingdom]] from the [[European Union]]
|image=Flag of brexit.svg
|imagecaption=The flag of the United Kingdom and the flag of the European Union combined.{{image credit|[[c:User:Robins7|Robins7]]}}
|portal=yes
|offset={{{offset|0}}}
|sisterprojects=yes
|commons=Category:Brexit
|wikidata= Q7888194
|wikipedia=Brexit
}}
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:European Union]]</text>
      <sha1>7up76m160p3k1jybwdige91iinq2jlm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5008686</id>
      <parentid>5008685</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:32:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Michael.C.Wright</username>
        <id>1936983</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>update pipe</comment>
      <origin>5008686</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="456" sha1="93q89lp5fi74euit7gn2gufdiyopvgt" xml:space="preserve">{{Topic cat
|the=1
|pipe=Brexit
|no comma=1
|intro= The withdrawal of the [[United Kingdom]] from the [[European Union]]
|image=Flag of brexit.svg
|imagecaption=The flag of the United Kingdom and the flag of the European Union combined.{{image credit|[[c:User:Robins7|Robins7]]}}
|portal=yes
|offset={{{offset|0}}}
|sisterprojects=yes
|commons=Category:Brexit
|wikidata= Q7888194
|wikipedia=Brexit
}}
[[Category:United Kingdom]]
[[Category:European Union]]</text>
      <sha1>93q89lp5fi74euit7gn2gufdiyopvgt</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Alexheberling</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092082</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008689</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:37:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008689</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="ntycgwc1h7hf1srasf7lzszaxh4u161" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Alexheberling}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:37, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ntycgwc1h7hf1srasf7lzszaxh4u161</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Kaletrosa~eswiki</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092083</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008698</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:46:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008698</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="fhujsk7k7t0qn07ftfxgnmjf19s971h" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Kaletrosa~eswiki}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fhujsk7k7t0qn07ftfxgnmjf19s971h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Mr kungubayo</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092084</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008699</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:50:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008699</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="45ozgr0gl7onvdbc9zkuidxdov4egqa" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Mr kungubayo}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:50, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>45ozgr0gl7onvdbc9zkuidxdov4egqa</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:1ofOneee</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092085</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008701</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-15T23:57:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008701</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="t0q1hqbnptgdxpfhcp1z9c8wrrjera1" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=1ofOneee}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 23:57, 15 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>t0q1hqbnptgdxpfhcp1z9c8wrrjera1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Tankajahari1</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092086</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008711</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:33:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008711</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="eame691hh46sewvn83o02ygeazn6l8x" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Tankajahari1}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 00:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>eame691hh46sewvn83o02ygeazn6l8x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Arthur Warlock</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092087</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008712</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:33:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008712</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="qjlxle0ktb1haj52u9ral93zwiv3pto" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Arthur Warlock}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 00:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qjlxle0ktb1haj52u9ral93zwiv3pto</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Tarik Estrella Diaz</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092088</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008713</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:34:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008713</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="167" sha1="i2tshty5b60ewzejezepyim8s119vew" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Tarik Estrella Diaz}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 00:34, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i2tshty5b60ewzejezepyim8s119vew</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Triscuit89</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092089</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008718</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:48:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008718</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="76uzp0bdaqcwgrse14qjacwwybgq05i" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Triscuit89}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 00:48, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>76uzp0bdaqcwgrse14qjacwwybgq05i</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Lainde589</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092090</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008720</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T00:51:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008720</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="k2ds4s1j2aznaz8kb02pzpf4favgyd8" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Lainde589}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 00:51, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k2ds4s1j2aznaz8kb02pzpf4favgyd8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Saimyatkhaing0</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092091</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008722</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:08:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008722</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="nqttxjjzaq9l3m4nwbni40quog9nyyb" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Saimyatkhaing0}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nqttxjjzaq9l3m4nwbni40quog9nyyb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Requiem shark</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092092</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008723</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:09:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008723</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="en9ud2pgvli4rubz9g79739m6ax08pp" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Requiem shark}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:09, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>en9ud2pgvli4rubz9g79739m6ax08pp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:The 42124th bean to exist</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092093</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008726</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:19:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008726</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="173" sha1="qmwt71j4tsv9ohnd9c57haxmdk5uaft" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=The 42124th bean to exist}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qmwt71j4tsv9ohnd9c57haxmdk5uaft</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ape Freunde Niedersachsen</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092094</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008727</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:23:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008727</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="173" sha1="tn173vgve5e9y0re3qk1uj3ih023ul9" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ape Freunde Niedersachsen}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:23, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tn173vgve5e9y0re3qk1uj3ih023ul9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Elliotsleftear</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092095</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008728</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:25:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008728</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="d5ip5nmhtsf7zoewxg8qdogvp0rbtt3" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Elliotsleftear}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:25, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>d5ip5nmhtsf7zoewxg8qdogvp0rbtt3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:ToddGillilandFan</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092096</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008729</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:26:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008729</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="6c1p6e5ka0uh2r7ug88ndh0uotbzwx2" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=ToddGillilandFan}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6c1p6e5ka0uh2r7ug88ndh0uotbzwx2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Thib112</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092097</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008730</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:31:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008730</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="ihb0ztmqlcl8w92bdpveje7wvj0llf0" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Thib112}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ihb0ztmqlcl8w92bdpveje7wvj0llf0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:The awe in AuDHD</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092098</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008733</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:44:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008733</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="4gnhcyqbae8tloakk5znrbge8j6afua" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=The awe in AuDHD}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4gnhcyqbae8tloakk5znrbge8j6afua</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:AkashicLibrarian</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092099</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008740</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T01:59:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008740</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="18bised0qzawx4r59tvedq115n148et" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=AkashicLibrarian}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 01:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>18bised0qzawx4r59tvedq115n148et</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Rvcore</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092100</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008744</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T02:14:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008744</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="154" sha1="pxi5msir7mdh5ndmwy00airgfktqshr" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Rvcore}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 02:14, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pxi5msir7mdh5ndmwy00airgfktqshr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Galal Homouda</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092101</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008745</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T02:20:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008745</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="6gwur6mh4b6lwsd152zn4yqly3w82bw" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Galal Homouda}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 02:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6gwur6mh4b6lwsd152zn4yqly3w82bw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:SuzukiRanka</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092102</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008746</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T02:33:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008746</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="hcq2z3f7iqn0kkq7wk23gmdodti9ujq" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=SuzukiRanka}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 02:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hcq2z3f7iqn0kkq7wk23gmdodti9ujq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:XBNTG</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092103</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008747</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T02:44:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008747</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="153" sha1="pecv1zwt8ryrg1bjoolsn6eya9z8nno" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=XBNTG}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 02:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pecv1zwt8ryrg1bjoolsn6eya9z8nno</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Raisadiq</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092104</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008748</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T02:53:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008748</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="n2u4ozp0h1zddxl55p7zbfiubdnv28t" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Raisadiq}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 02:53, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n2u4ozp0h1zddxl55p7zbfiubdnv28t</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:User208865</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092105</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008749</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:00:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008749</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="2oguoh07bd3xy9p64fruw8rs37rx5e2" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=User208865}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 03:00, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2oguoh07bd3xy9p64fruw8rs37rx5e2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Leptoaraneasalticbombycidae</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092106</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008750</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:11:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008750</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="175" sha1="okjiwd6v8325spcss7qexqrea6vwsw6" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Leptoaraneasalticbombycidae}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 03:11, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>okjiwd6v8325spcss7qexqrea6vwsw6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Karina Joselin</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092107</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008756</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:19:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008756</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="1lub8zd4ixn2p5grshtp35m7o08fu7w" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Karina Joselin}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 03:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1lub8zd4ixn2p5grshtp35m7o08fu7w</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Rama Chandra Pandey</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092108</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008758</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:28:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008758</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="167" sha1="lczieh09orx1rg4aw23vc0y8eeybofw" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Rama Chandra Pandey}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 03:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lczieh09orx1rg4aw23vc0y8eeybofw</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Wartander89</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092109</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008760</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:35:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008760</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="48nsz8ckbczqtp3pmar55e14t9rclxz" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Wartander89}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 03:35, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>48nsz8ckbczqtp3pmar55e14t9rclxz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ayus2026</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092110</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008761</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:45:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008761</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="tjm1fz6nqh29ilg6sb5i3yjv8195znj" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ayus2026}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 03:45, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tjm1fz6nqh29ilg6sb5i3yjv8195znj</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Edersonsitibaldi</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092111</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008762</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T03:47:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008762</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="mca627f0kjet15610rhu3nakd9jzs8h" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Edersonsitibaldi}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 03:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mca627f0kjet15610rhu3nakd9jzs8h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:CuchUwU</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092112</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008772</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:12:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008772</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="emvovyc8ylvse5q7alqfp2xk9b6pfz2" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=CuchUwU}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 04:12, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>emvovyc8ylvse5q7alqfp2xk9b6pfz2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Meatball 660</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092113</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008774</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:14:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008774</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="21ovvwo9ailebb34hw1msxmgxwh3j1e" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Meatball 660}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 04:14, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>21ovvwo9ailebb34hw1msxmgxwh3j1e</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:JESUS CRIST GOD</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092114</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008775</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:19:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008775</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="5y4666anzs9pi64xkevpw10y7gfd7a4" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=JESUS CRIST GOD}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 04:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5y4666anzs9pi64xkevpw10y7gfd7a4</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Pikachuslilhands</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092115</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008776</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:27:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008776</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="164" sha1="sl2hm5nesajk7rtmts8hbqcx0jm888r" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Pikachuslilhands}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 04:27, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sl2hm5nesajk7rtmts8hbqcx0jm888r</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:SinkingMind</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092116</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008777</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T04:54:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008777</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="6nm4t1h392eje2ijgtu4vl4r5lnev1h" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=SinkingMind}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 04:54, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6nm4t1h392eje2ijgtu4vl4r5lnev1h</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Phatin</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092117</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008778</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T05:08:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008778</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="154" sha1="0bjcqsve6599nbbxt5rv9og2kg5skmr" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Phatin}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 05:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0bjcqsve6599nbbxt5rv9og2kg5skmr</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Nerdi0t</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092118</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008779</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T05:24:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008779</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="86m6e1goli1uw6ks4r6o67dfap19mqz" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Nerdi0t}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 05:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>86m6e1goli1uw6ks4r6o67dfap19mqz</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Quotaoxus</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092119</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008780</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T05:30:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008780</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="1qkcbm1otqf2q7je5t0dmuorg0o8b8c" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Quotaoxus}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 05:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1qkcbm1otqf2q7je5t0dmuorg0o8b8c</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Uicypress14</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092120</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008781</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T05:39:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008781</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="hq3qn7s4bgjitqffw8admrhuefj2nyx" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Uicypress14}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 05:39, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hq3qn7s4bgjitqffw8admrhuefj2nyx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ziiiiiìiiìii</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092121</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008782</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T05:41:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008782</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="48fe5fieb7xskvaprpfb6ur3ju6s4up" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ziiiiiìiiìii}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 05:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>48fe5fieb7xskvaprpfb6ur3ju6s4up</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Fotel105</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092122</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008783</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T05:42:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008783</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="fbgv1dwzb7dgqv2uzhrvcslckg9haai" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Fotel105}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 05:42, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fbgv1dwzb7dgqv2uzhrvcslckg9haai</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Justinn1431</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092123</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008784</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T05:45:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008784</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="rlx7edczn4lfmse51sd8e3p2h1i6zyx" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Justinn1431}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 05:45, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rlx7edczn4lfmse51sd8e3p2h1i6zyx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Kbapi</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092124</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008785</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T05:46:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008785</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="153" sha1="a7c9ct4wbppitejxouw4kcyzku514t8" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Kbapi}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 05:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>a7c9ct4wbppitejxouw4kcyzku514t8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:WoordenBrei</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092128</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008789</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:00:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008789</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="qx16eywf026qt4hic0awav56a1mgtk1" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=WoordenBrei}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 06:00, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qx16eywf026qt4hic0awav56a1mgtk1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Kanaansteel2847</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092130</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008803</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:13:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008803</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="tv71zizvpbu1h7vthbryep1iwhao2bx" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Kanaansteel2847}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 06:13, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tv71zizvpbu1h7vthbryep1iwhao2bx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:SupergGrobi</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092131</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008804</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:15:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008804</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="i86vywankm5kdberi9t110zisajxeic" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=SupergGrobi}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 06:15, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i86vywankm5kdberi9t110zisajxeic</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Gligorije Gruja</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092133</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008806</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:27:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008806</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="e35jib06hyhxho505r43rmvhrwz3nb2" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Gligorije Gruja}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 06:27, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>e35jib06hyhxho505r43rmvhrwz3nb2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:CesareGMartinez</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092134</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008807</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:39:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008807</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="p2xived6p3xlccc8frgjmzo6g14gisd" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=CesareGMartinez}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 06:39, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>p2xived6p3xlccc8frgjmzo6g14gisd</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:New editing editor</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092135</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008808</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T06:58:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008808</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="166" sha1="f1nexvlzb88iozldpdwqusnd0lxg39x" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=New editing editor}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 06:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f1nexvlzb88iozldpdwqusnd0lxg39x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Bubadibako</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092136</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008810</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:11:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008810</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="4kibbn44p7ef0c4yvtj45p6qw0x7ng7" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Bubadibako}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:11, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4kibbn44p7ef0c4yvtj45p6qw0x7ng7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Ssentamu Wycliffe</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092137</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008811</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:15:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008811</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="165" sha1="il135zoutadkdxg1mxc0uen9bz4h0i7" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Ssentamu Wycliffe}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:15, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>il135zoutadkdxg1mxc0uen9bz4h0i7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Matilim</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092138</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008812</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:28:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008812</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="k0wt7wzpcequvailjacnyind8ocp5zx" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Matilim}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k0wt7wzpcequvailjacnyind8ocp5zx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Leroy McGillicuddy</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092139</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008813</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:30:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008813</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="166" sha1="7uphsc03b0wmflbwv8ljva51bavr3b6" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Leroy McGillicuddy}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7uphsc03b0wmflbwv8ljva51bavr3b6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Outoftune2000</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092140</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008814</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:32:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008814</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="i659maa211d23m67anbllfjpzawza47" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Outoftune2000}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:32, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i659maa211d23m67anbllfjpzawza47</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:785296dowon</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092141</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008815</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:32:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008815</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="oor1uk20dece0w1lk5cb5cbnjy4p7w9" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=785296dowon}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:32, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oor1uk20dece0w1lk5cb5cbnjy4p7w9</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Spinster01</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092142</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008816</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:42:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008816</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="hpc0ovvgpbluc9r3nhg9y0aqgg89w0o" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Spinster01}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:42, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hpc0ovvgpbluc9r3nhg9y0aqgg89w0o</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Darde</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092143</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008817</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:47:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008817</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="153" sha1="topdxnmzcr7o78tlvpjb6rwbu53ao46" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Darde}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>topdxnmzcr7o78tlvpjb6rwbu53ao46</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Alibnd77</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092144</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008818</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T07:53:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008818</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="qqhsetdc73gj8zbptl0nr91rjx4trqm" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Alibnd77}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 07:53, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qqhsetdc73gj8zbptl0nr91rjx4trqm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Fattystool</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092145</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008819</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T08:00:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008819</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="7v82ou8x0iwdxc54tgu055w16qp9bki" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Fattystool}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 08:00, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7v82ou8x0iwdxc54tgu055w16qp9bki</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:RomiBena</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092147</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008821</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T08:12:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008821</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="156" sha1="12bd8cd96sybsvrdnjwy2d1n43h4jwx" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=RomiBena}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 08:12, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>12bd8cd96sybsvrdnjwy2d1n43h4jwx</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Mysal</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092148</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008822</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T08:23:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008822</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="153" sha1="h3ojw6ir9w1qkbs5y5uje2a5odyeg61" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Mysal}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 08:23, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>h3ojw6ir9w1qkbs5y5uje2a5odyeg61</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Geordiemcgrath</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092149</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008823</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T08:26:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008823</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="i0himbfr1gll3mg8hc3nuosib8t5tqu" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Geordiemcgrath}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 08:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i0himbfr1gll3mg8hc3nuosib8t5tqu</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Shekinah lubuko</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092150</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008827</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T08:47:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008827</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="lck7lih95wqqyq9h3wd7aba7l9h4vt0" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Shekinah lubuko}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 08:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lck7lih95wqqyq9h3wd7aba7l9h4vt0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Armanxrose</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092151</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008828</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:04:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008828</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="s2yqt20must3xywnc5f6adr0lula26j" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Armanxrose}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 09:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s2yqt20must3xywnc5f6adr0lula26j</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Wikier1625</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092152</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008829</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:27:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008829</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="azpbm99tlvmmkectdc6yn2qstf7q5c2" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Wikier1625}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 09:27, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>azpbm99tlvmmkectdc6yn2qstf7q5c2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:VersedVoyager67</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092153</id>
    <redirect title="User talk:Morvellane" />
    <revision>
      <id>5008831</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:28:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Syunsyunminmin</username>
        <id>2843269</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Syunsyunminmin moved page [[User talk:VersedVoyager67]] to [[User talk:Morvellane]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/VersedVoyager67|VersedVoyager67]]&quot; to &quot;[[Special:CentralAuth/Morvellane|Morvellane]]&quot;</comment>
      <origin>5008831</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="34" sha1="0qjh7f7128yo63iv8iq6xha3wqcy2st" xml:space="preserve">#REDIRECT [[User talk:Morvellane]]</text>
      <sha1>0qjh7f7128yo63iv8iq6xha3wqcy2st</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Mohammad umair peerzada</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092154</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008832</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:29:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008832</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="171" sha1="0v6oi75bc0zl8rzdy36jhth03pxmfkp" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Mohammad umair peerzada}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 09:29, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0v6oi75bc0zl8rzdy36jhth03pxmfkp</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Noahfearnley10</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092155</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008833</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:30:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008833</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="mmfg3kvdd2pux8qtxnpkqsx2wgord3a" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Noahfearnley10}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 09:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mmfg3kvdd2pux8qtxnpkqsx2wgord3a</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:LooseWeight101</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092156</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008834</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:33:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008834</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="sv95eivh882rjm59l9stk6a4hbi8b9g" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=LooseWeight101}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 09:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sv95eivh882rjm59l9stk6a4hbi8b9g</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Hatma01</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092157</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008835</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:34:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008835</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="155" sha1="tcgldmpp2jv1ea266mim96twysqddxm" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Hatma01}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 09:34, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tcgldmpp2jv1ea266mim96twysqddxm</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Prosto pancho</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092158</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008836</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:48:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008836</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="q5a36fbotj8kwsk2sv9imcytqmjn1o8" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Prosto pancho}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 09:48, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>q5a36fbotj8kwsk2sv9imcytqmjn1o8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Suuvid</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092159</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008837</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T09:54:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008837</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="154" sha1="9n7sb9hfbqzckffalcq20tbb97q8t0x" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Suuvid}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 09:54, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9n7sb9hfbqzckffalcq20tbb97q8t0x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:RosePandaRed</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092160</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008838</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:00:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008838</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="160" sha1="5vaq6y7eumtqry498tpxnjj15ak3fb5" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=RosePandaRed}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:00, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5vaq6y7eumtqry498tpxnjj15ak3fb5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:BRizzerWizz</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092161</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008839</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:02:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008839</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="159" sha1="69po9yfkgkdouz9ytuqo4d32ib58qy2" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=BRizzerWizz}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:02, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>69po9yfkgkdouz9ytuqo4d32ib58qy2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Embers9393</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092162</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008840</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:02:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008840</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="2swlx7cihvyxc4a42wv8gd5qtda7lne" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Embers9393}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:02, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2swlx7cihvyxc4a42wv8gd5qtda7lne</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Scrumdiddly00</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092163</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008841</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:05:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008841</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="161" sha1="6jnxa84pxek34730lxvosjqb8wemebi" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Scrumdiddly00}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:05, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6jnxa84pxek34730lxvosjqb8wemebi</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Mr BALASCO</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092164</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008842</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:11:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008842</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="158" sha1="5bq8izeh6q5nqxx91huwtr7egc7mfmi" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Mr BALASCO}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:11, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5bq8izeh6q5nqxx91huwtr7egc7mfmi</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Dalethecoolguy</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092165</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008843</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:13:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008843</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="162" sha1="5p49cvjyb1andaikjslaj3lw8wh763b" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Dalethecoolguy}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:13, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5p49cvjyb1andaikjslaj3lw8wh763b</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Jomarchssortoftwin</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092166</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008844</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:14:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008844</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="166" sha1="jyjnvzi9fpxrqiutvxtuj637wcjfrr6" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=Jomarchssortoftwin}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:14, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jyjnvzi9fpxrqiutvxtuj637wcjfrr6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:SamRB2314</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092167</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008845</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:26:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008845</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="157" sha1="lwq7j6x3f9d989yu8pessafupsihzuo" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=SamRB2314}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lwq7j6x3f9d989yu8pessafupsihzuo</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Derickjonescorpen</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>3092168</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008846</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:56:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
      <origin>5008846</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:56, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:Eliolezozo</title>
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    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-16T10:57:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 10:57, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:Aby k Raj</title>
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    <id>3092170</id>
    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2026-04-16T11:24:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 11:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:LikeCowboysDoInTVLand</title>
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    <id>3092171</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008849</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T11:33:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 11:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:Oumagmaill</title>
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    <id>3092172</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008850</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T11:40:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
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      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 11:40, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b93eqkkbiq7cynd7r4krl5vusbli9fr</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:21mis</title>
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    <id>3092173</id>
    <revision>
      <id>5008851</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T11:46:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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      <text bytes="153" sha1="3fouuaxygx5hcewzockp415vg3hm6kg" xml:space="preserve">{{Template:Welcome|realName=|name=21mis}}

-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 11:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3fouuaxygx5hcewzockp415vg3hm6kg</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>User talk:ScribeNoVibe</title>
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    <revision>
      <id>5008852</id>
      <timestamp>2026-04-16T11:56:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Wikinews Welcome</username>
        <id>183942</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Welcoming the newest member of the Wikinews community.</comment>
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-- [[User:Wikinews Welcome|Wikinews Welcome]] ([[User talk:Wikinews Welcome|talk]]) 11:56, 16 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
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