Wikiversity talk:Main Page

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{{attention}} To request an edit to the [[Wikiversity:Page protection|protected]] Main Page, add {{tl|editprotected}} to your request. Such requests should either be obvious or uncontroversial, or be discussed to show consensus, so please do not make vague requests here. If possible, describe exactly what changes should be made so that any custodian can quickly satisfy the request.&lt;br&gt;
{{attention}} To raise general topics about [[Wikiversity]], make general suggestions about Wikiversity, to ask questions, or to talk about anything else of a general nature, use the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium|Colloquium]].&lt;br&gt;
{{attention}} To discuss the structure, appearance, etc. of the [[Wikiversity:Main Page|Main Page]], go to the [[Wikiversity:Main page learning project]] and the [[Wikiversity talk:Main page learning project|talk page for the main page learning project]].
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'''''If you wish to post something below, go ahead. It's a talk page. But you are more likely to get a response by going to the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium|Colloquium]], which is where the main talking at Wikiversity goes on! See you there.'''''

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== The Wikiversity:Main page learning project ==

The [[Wikiversity:Main page learning project]] was launched after the redesign of the main page in December 2007. The [[Wikiversity:Main page learning project]] has as its goal &quot;the promotion of responsible involvement of the Wikiversity community in an efficient, productive, open and inclusive maintenance of the Wikiversity main page as a flagship of the activity and values of the Wikiversity community&quot;. If you would like to get involved in the design of the main page, this is where to go. 

If you have general comments about the main page, but you don't especially want to get involved in the main page project, then you can also leave comments on the [[Wikiversity_talk:Main page learning project|talk page for the main page learning project]].

:I've suggested that it might be time to retire the &quot;quote of the day&quot; project and remove the quotes from the Main Page. See: [[Wikiversity talk:Main page learning project/QOTD]]. It might also be appropriate to deprecate the inactive [[Wikiversity:Main page learning project]] and archive it. Thoughts? --[[User:Mu301|mikeu]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Mu301|talk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 23:37, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

== add new language university ==
Now that Chinese Wikiversity is created, please add a cross-wiki link to it. --[[User:WQL|WQL]] ([[User talk:WQL|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/WQL|contribs]]) 12:52, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

:{{Done}} -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 14:29, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
::What about zulu language [[User:Lucky Shabalala|Lucky Shabalala]] ([[User talk:Lucky Shabalala|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lucky Shabalala|contribs]]) 05:57, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

== Edit request from 204.234.101.112, 14 February 2019 ==

&lt;nowiki&gt;{{editprotected}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;
&lt;!-- Begin request --&gt;


&lt;!-- End request --&gt;
[[Special:Contributions/204.234.101.112|204.234.101.112]] ([[User talk:204.234.101.112|discuss]]) 21:17, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

:{{Not done}} Empty request -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 01:11, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

== Georgian (ka) wikiversity ==
PLEASE 

Help me to make Georgian (ka) wikiversity--[[User:ჯეო|ჯეო]] ([[User talk:ჯეო|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ჯეო|contribs]]) 17:23, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

:{{at|ჯეო}} See https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Main_Page. -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 23:00, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

დიდი მადლობა (Didi Madloba-Thank You)!--[[User:ჯეო|ჯეო]] ([[User talk:ჯეო|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ჯეო|contribs]]) 08:44, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

::Please see [[betawikiversity:Category:KA]]. That is the appropriate place to create learning pages in this language. --[[User:Mu301|mikeu]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Mu301|talk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:11, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

== new langueages ==

we should admit crosing of languajes to have a better understanding--[[Special:Contributions/201.208.239.198|201.208.239.198]] ([[User talk:201.208.239.198|discuss]]) 19:34, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

:This is the English Wikiversity. See [[:es:Portada|Wikiversidad]] for Wikiversity in Spanish. -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 22:39, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

== How to change an username? ==

How to change an username? --[[User:Josephina Phoebe White|Josephina Phoebe White]] ([[User talk:Josephina Phoebe White|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Josephina Phoebe White|contribs]]) 07:27, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
*{{ping|Josephina Phoebe White}} You can request at [[Special:GlobalRenameRequest]] --[[User:94rain|94rain]] ([[User talk:94rain|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/94rain|contribs]]) 07:29, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. --[[User:Josephina Phoebe White|Josephina Phoebe White]] ([[User talk:Josephina Phoebe White|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Josephina Phoebe White|contribs]]) 07:45, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

==Religious user names allowed in Wikiversity?==

https://en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Username

Names of religious figures such as &quot;God&quot;, &quot;Jehovah&quot;,&quot;Buddha&quot;,&quot;Jainism&quot;,&quot;Bonadea&quot;,Hinduism or &quot;Allah&quot;, which user names prohibited

Please answer for my question. This Wikiversity user name policy still alive? Religious user names are prohibited? 

:It isn't a policy, but it's a guideline for people who are wanting to register an account are recommended to follow (as per the page, which could be changed with community consensus). I see no reason for this statement to be &quot;dead&quot;. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 00:15, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
::: Yes: Religious user names are under hedding &quot;Inflammatory usernames&quot;, will be blocked and not allowed.

== LinkedIn ==

I insist that a Wikiversity page should be added on LinkedIn. Wikimedia has its LinkedIn page; Wikipedia, too. But not Wikiversity. I tried to show my Swedish studies but could not choose Wikiversity as the Institution. Why not? Even when it is not a &quot;granting degree&quot; Institution, is is still an Institution, right? When I contacted LinkedIn about this, they sent me the link so that I can create myself the Wikiversity page. But then there is box I must tick: &quot; I confirm I am an approved authority of this Institution to create this page&quot;, which is not the case. But I think there are many Wikiversity experts on here that woud qualify as Wikiversity Linkedin page creators. I can create the page if someone here approves, but I would need some info: # of employees, etc. --[[User:Leonardo T. Cardillo|Leonardo T. Cardillo]] ([[User talk:Leonardo T. Cardillo|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Leonardo T. Cardillo|contribs]]) 23:34, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

:The information would go here [https://www.linkedin.com/company/setup/new/ Wikiversity institution] but it probably should have a bureaucrat or someone from the WMF tick &quot;I verify that I am an authorized representative of this organization and have the right to act on its behalf in the creation and management of this page. The organization and I agree to the additional terms for Pages.&quot; The number of employees (volunteers is not an option but we are unpaid) for our Wikiversity I guess could be the number of active users 201-500. The current logo is File:Wikiversity logo 2017.svg. The website can be https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Main_Page.--[[User:Marshallsumter|Marshallsumter]] ([[User talk:Marshallsumter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Marshallsumter|contribs]]) 00:16, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

{{At|Leonardo T. Cardillo}} Wikiversity is a community. None of us gets to insist that anything happen on behalf of the community unless there is consensus to do so. This requires a discussion in the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium]] and a vote for support or lack thereof. Because this request involves an outside organization, it may also require support from the WMF.

I have some concerns at this point that your passion regarding this issue far exceeds your demonstrated commitment to either Wikiversity or the wider Wikimedia community. It might be better to let this rest for a bit and learn more about how Wikiversity functions before insisting that this be discussed. -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 03:29, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

:{{At|Dave Braunschweig}}: I apologize for the use of the word &quot;insist&quot;, I have taken note to not use it anymore here to avoid distractions from the main topic of conversation. Also, I do not like you judge how much my passions should go against my level of contributions. With that being said, and for my personal learning on this environment, can someone please guide me on the very first step I should take to have a Wikiversity page created on LinkedIn? I think you mentioned something like a &quot;poll&quot;, how do I do that? --[[User:Leonardo T. Cardillo|Leonardo T. Cardillo]] ([[User talk:Leonardo T. Cardillo|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Leonardo T. Cardillo|contribs]]) 04:38, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

::{{At|Leonardo T. Cardillo}} I have already guided you on the next step to take. Please read my response carefully. Then slow down and learn more about Wikiversity. We often have people come in with high passions and quick fixes that Wikiversity must make in order to improve. They're typically gone within a month and we're left having to clean up after them. That's not to suggest that this is or isn't a good idea. It is simply to point out that this is a community. You must first learn to work with the community before you try to change it. We look forward to working with you as you figure this out. -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 15:31, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

:::{{At|Dave Braunschweig}} Thanks so much for your inputs. I have created this: https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Colloquium#LinkedIn. Please indicate if that is the next step that was intended to be created. Also, please guide on the following ones. Best regards, --[[User:Leonardo T. Cardillo|Leonardo T. Cardillo]] ([[User talk:Leonardo T. Cardillo|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Leonardo T. Cardillo|contribs]]) 16:27, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

== Add New Language ==

Why not bn.wikiversity?  But there is Hindi!  Make it, please.  I am ready to cooperate if needed. [[User:Hirok Raja|Hirok Raja]] ([[User talk:Hirok Raja|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hirok Raja|contribs]]) 03:07, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

:[[User:Hirok Raja|Hirok Raja]]: please see [[:betawikiversity:|Wikiversity Beta]]. &amp;mdash;Hasley&amp;nbsp;[[user talk:Hasley|&lt;span style=&quot;color: #0645AD; vertical-align: super; font-size: smaller;&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/span&gt;]] 13:04, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

:{{At|Hirok Raja}} Also see [[meta:Wikiversity]]. We are the English Wikiversity. We have no role in setting up new Wikiversity languages. When bn.wikiversity is added, please let us know, and we will add it to our main page. -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 13:59, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

== I'm learning Turkish🤩 ==

Hi(to the person reading this)! I'm learning Turkish and I would like someone(native Turkish speaker) to teach how to pronounce Turkish. I do know some words,alphabets and number☺️ and I'm still learning and I hope someone is willing to help me🥺.

@JinahJady! [[User:JanehJody|JanehJody]] ([[User talk:JanehJody|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/JanehJody|contribs]]) 18:14, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

:Hi. Welcome to Wikiversity! Please see our [[Turkish|resources relating to the study of the Turkish language]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
::Hi,@[[User:JanehJody|JanehJody]] can i help you ::) [[User:MexmetW|MexmetW]] ([[User talk:MexmetW|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MexmetW|contribs]]) 07:47, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
:Hi,@[[User:JanehJody|JanehJody]] I would love to help you to learning turkish :) [[Special:Contributions/85.105.185.109|85.105.185.109]] ([[User talk:85.105.185.109|discuss]]) 07:31, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

== Is it Wikipedia remodeled or a copy of wikipedia? ==

I am confused--[[User:Noukden|Noukden]] ([[User talk:Noukden|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Noukden|contribs]]) 20:45, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

:{{At|Noukden}} None of the above. See [[What is Wikiversity?]] and [[What Wikiversity is not]]. Wikiversity is learning projects. Link to Wikipedia rather than duplicating it and then add hands-on activities so users can learn by doing. See [[IT Fundamentals]] for one approach. -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 00:15, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

== Action in the earliest? ==

I want to know much more of all action that happend in the earliest centuries. [[User:Dilbkhay|Dilbkhay]] ([[User talk:Dilbkhay|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dilbkhay|contribs]]) 14:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

:Depending upon what you mean by &quot;earliest&quot;, have a look at [[Paleanthropology]] or [[Philosophy/Sciences]]. --[[User:Marshallsumter|Marshallsumter]] ([[User talk:Marshallsumter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Marshallsumter|contribs]]) 21:07, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

== Biology ==

What are the basic principles of ecology [[User:Aludriyo Dominic|Aludriyo Dominic]] ([[User talk:Aludriyo Dominic|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aludriyo Dominic|contribs]]) 18:25, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

:{{At|Aludriyo Dominic}} Welcome! See [[Wikipedia:Ecology]]. -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 00:17, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
:{{ping|Aludriyo Dominic}} I invite you to read [[User:Atcovi/Science/Ecology]] if you're interested in learning about the basics of Ecology. Also check out the wikipedia link above and [[:Category:Ecology|this category]]. Thanks and weclome! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:44, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

I will try to study [[User:Aludriyo Dominic|Aludriyo Dominic]] ([[User talk:Aludriyo Dominic|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aludriyo Dominic|contribs]]) 05:41, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

== Physics ==

Physics Can Be defined as A Pure Science Subject That deals with the Measurement Of Matter In relation to energy. --{{Unsigned|Oyeyemi Abdul-warith|29 January 2022}}

: Welcome to Wikiversity! Here is a landing page that may be helpful: [[Physics]]. --[[User:Marshallsumter|Marshallsumter]] ([[User talk:Marshallsumter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Marshallsumter|contribs]]) 16:42, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

== Popularize ==

Can someone popularize California or the State of Washington on the Main Page? [[Special:Contributions/2604:3D08:6286:7500:B441:2710:77A4:1304|2604:3D08:6286:7500:B441:2710:77A4:1304]] ([[User talk:2604:3D08:6286:7500:B441:2710:77A4:1304|discuss]]) 03:33, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

:No, sorry, promotion isn't part of the [[Wikiversity:Mission]]. -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 12:06, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

== [[w:Armistice of WWI|Armistice of WWI]], [[w:Paris Peace Conference|Paris Peace Conference]] and Aftermath ==

The best time to feature this on the main page was last week or yesterday;  the second best time is today.

* [[w:Template:First_World_War_treaties]]  (this template should get transcluded or copied to wikiversity, since this doesn't work: {{w:First_World_War_treaties}} although I wish it would)
* [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Proclaiming_Armistice_of_WWI_Remembrance_and_Veterans_Day_for_11th_Nov]] our course on WWI is woefully inadequate, but this is a good time to start improving it!
[[User:Jaredscribe|Jaredscribe]] ([[User talk:Jaredscribe|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jaredscribe|contribs]]) 10:22, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

== Can you please add isiZulu plz ==

Because all othere languages her so i can umderstand batter  [[User:Lucky Shabalala|Lucky Shabalala]] ([[User talk:Lucky Shabalala|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lucky Shabalala|contribs]]) 06:06, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:Add it how? Add more resources to learn the language? I think that would be fantastic, but it's very labor-intensive and I doubt anyone here has the competence to add that kind of material. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 08:40, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

== banner ==

says set learning free, propare grammer would be Start learning for free [[User:Ducklan|Ducklan]] ([[User talk:Ducklan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ducklan|contribs]]) 20:21, 3 February 2026 (UTC)

:I'm a native American English speaker and this banner is grammatical. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 08:52, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
::That’s not the problem. I’m wondering if we should more clearly emphasize what Wikiversity is on this banner. Idk maybe it’s fine as it is I would just like it to be clearer[[User:Ducklan|Ducklan]] ([[User talk:Ducklan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ducklan|contribs]]) 16:15, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
:::nevermind i just got the banner thought it was supposed to say start learning free, but its actually set learning free(like release learning) [[User:Ducklan|Ducklan]] ([[User talk:Ducklan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ducklan|contribs]]) 16:12, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

== Digi Marketing (Unbreakable Business Plan)  ==

'''Business Name: &lt;u&gt;DigiMarketing&lt;/u&gt;'''

An Online Store for Digital Products: e-books, templates, online courses.

Business Start Up 

'''Step 1. Choose your Niche'''

Decide what kind of digital products you will sell. Pick something you understand or are interested in.

'''Examples:'''

* E-books (study guides, business tips)
* Templates (resume, Canva designs, planners)
* Online courses

'''Step 2. Create your Digital Products''' 

* Design your products using tools like Canva or Google Docs
* Make sure they are:
** Useful
** Easy to understand
** High quality

'''Example:'''

“Editable Resume Templates for Students”

'''Step 3. Set up your online store''' 

'''You can sell your products using:'''

* A simple website (Facebook, raketPH)
* Online platforms (like marketplaces or social media shops)

'''Make sure your store has:'''

* Product descriptions
* Prices
* Easy payment options
* Download access after purchase

'''Step 4. Set up your payment method''' 

* Enable secure payment methods (GCash, PayPal, cards)

* Make sure transactions are fast and safe

'''Step 5. Test your System''' 

'''Before launching:'''

* Try buying your own product
* Check if download works
* Check if payment is successful

This prevents customer complaints later.

'''Step 6. Launch Your Business'''

* Announce your business online
* Offer discounts for first buyers
* Start collecting feedback

'''Business Manual (SOP)'''

Maintenance Checklist:

# '''&lt;u&gt;Backup Schedule&lt;/u&gt;'''

'''Customer Data (orders, emails, payments):'''

Backup every 1 hour (automatic cloud backup)

'''Website &amp; Digital Products:'''

Backup daily

'''Full System Backup (offsite/cloud):'''

Backup '''weekly'''

'''Why this matters:'''

If the system crashes, DigiMarketing can quickly recover data and continue operations without losing customers.

'''2. &lt;u&gt;Security Check&lt;/u&gt;''' 

To protect DigiMarketing and its users:

* Enable Two-Factor Authentication (2FA)
* Require strong passwords
* Conduct weekly security scans
* Install firewall and anti-malware tools

'''Why this matters:'''

Prevents hacking and keeps customer information safe.

'''&lt;u&gt;3. Emergency Contact System&lt;/u&gt;''' 

If DigiMarketing experiences system failure:

* IT Support / Web Developer
* Web Hosting Provider
* Payment Gateway Support

'''Why this matters:'''

Quick response minimizes downtime and financial loss.

'''4. System Monitoring'''

* Use 24/7 monitoring tools
* Set up automatic alerts (email/SMS)

* Check system performance daily

'''Why this matters:'''

Issues are detected early before affecting customers.

'''5. Redundancy Plan (Plan B)''' 

* Maintain a backup server or website
* Use cloud-based storage systems
* Prepare a manual order system (Google Forms or email)

'''Why this matters:'''

Even if the main website fails, DigiMarketing can still accept orders.

'''AUDIT TRAIL (CHANGE LOG)''' 

Every update must include a reason (Edit Summary).

'''Examples:'''

* “Added hourly backup to prevent data loss during system crash.”
* “Updated security steps to improve account protection.”
* “Included emergency contacts for faster response during downtime.”
* “Added backup order system as Plan B during website failure.”

'''Why this matters:'''

This shows '''accountability'''. If someone audits the business, there is proof that the system is properly maintained. [[User:Pelaine|Pelaine]] ([[User talk:Pelaine|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pelaine|contribs]]) 08:04, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dxcrshgpcgsrqyu19mj4vkax7khvjog</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>Wikiversity:Colloquium</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>28</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807217</id>
      <parentid>2807213</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T12:43:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jtneill</username>
        <id>10242</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Moved the threads about the curator policy proposal to be adjacent + voted support</comment>
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Codename Noreste@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=30424282 --&gt;</text>
      <sha1>e80jro3r55qtklendqq299ztgxokm9m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807226</id>
      <parentid>2807217</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:32:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PhilDaBirdMan</username>
        <id>3003027</id>
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      <comment>/* Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy */ Reply</comment>
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Codename Noreste@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=30424282 --&gt;

== Coming over From wikinews ==

Any chance someone could help me if you are allowed to write news articles here since wikinews is going read only mode soon, thank you! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 22:43, 1 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>o8adhgcyr2xydi2dls2pw7n4503gs0g</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>2807276</id>
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      <timestamp>2026-05-01T23:38:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Koavf</username>
        <id>147</id>
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      <comment>/* Coming over From wikinews */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="67616" sha1="omzz2o3r2lcnrs4t6rdz6xferl9owb2" xml:space="preserve">{{Wikiversity:Colloquium/Header}}
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
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== Coming over From wikinews ==

Any chance someone could help me if you are allowed to write news articles here since wikinews is going read only mode soon, thank you! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 22:43, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

:The scope of Wikiversity is very broad and is basically about more-or-less any learning material. We have made it a point to not have duplicative content of other WMF projects, but since Wikinews is being shuttered, I personally am fine with writing news articles here. One thing that is not controversial at all is a learning resource &lt;em&gt;about&lt;/em&gt; how to write news: that could be hugely useful here and could involve the process of writing news stories to learn and to share back and forth with an editor or fact-checker. In fact, I'd support an entire namespace dedicated to keeping the notion of Wikinews alive here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:38, 1 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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      <id>2807278</id>
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      <timestamp>2026-05-02T01:07:36Z</timestamp>
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        <id>3069766</id>
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Codename Noreste@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=30424282 --&gt;

== Coming over From wikinews ==

Any chance someone could help me if you are allowed to write news articles here since wikinews is going read only mode soon, thank you! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 22:43, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

:The scope of Wikiversity is very broad and is basically about more-or-less any learning material. We have made it a point to not have duplicative content of other WMF projects, but since Wikinews is being shuttered, I personally am fine with writing news articles here. One thing that is not controversial at all is a learning resource &lt;em&gt;about&lt;/em&gt; how to write news: that could be hugely useful here and could involve the process of writing news stories to learn and to share back and forth with an editor or fact-checker. In fact, I'd support an entire namespace dedicated to keeping the notion of Wikinews alive here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:38, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! How do I start? Cheers! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:07, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Codename Noreste@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=30424282 --&gt;

== Coming over From wikinews ==

Any chance someone could help me if you are allowed to write news articles here since wikinews is going read only mode soon, thank you! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 22:43, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

:The scope of Wikiversity is very broad and is basically about more-or-less any learning material. We have made it a point to not have duplicative content of other WMF projects, but since Wikinews is being shuttered, I personally am fine with writing news articles here. One thing that is not controversial at all is a learning resource &lt;em&gt;about&lt;/em&gt; how to write news: that could be hugely useful here and could involve the process of writing news stories to learn and to share back and forth with an editor or fact-checker. In fact, I'd support an entire namespace dedicated to keeping the notion of Wikinews alive here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:38, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! How do I start? Cheers! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:07, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:::I think it's premature to start just making news articles en masse, but if you want to start discussing the topic of citizen journalism, you can do that now. [[:Category:Journalism]] already has some material, so you can start by seeing what we already have, how you can refine that, etc. You can definitely have learning resources with collaborators who want to learn about journalism ASAP. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:24, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
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== Coming over From wikinews ==

Any chance someone could help me if you are allowed to write news articles here since wikinews is going read only mode soon, thank you! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 22:43, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

:The scope of Wikiversity is very broad and is basically about more-or-less any learning material. We have made it a point to not have duplicative content of other WMF projects, but since Wikinews is being shuttered, I personally am fine with writing news articles here. One thing that is not controversial at all is a learning resource &lt;em&gt;about&lt;/em&gt; how to write news: that could be hugely useful here and could involve the process of writing news stories to learn and to share back and forth with an editor or fact-checker. In fact, I'd support an entire namespace dedicated to keeping the notion of Wikinews alive here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:38, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! How do I start? Cheers! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:07, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:::I think it's premature to start just making news articles en masse, but if you want to start discussing the topic of citizen journalism, you can do that now. [[:Category:Journalism]] already has some material, so you can start by seeing what we already have, how you can refine that, etc. You can definitely have learning resources with collaborators who want to learn about journalism ASAP. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:24, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
::::thanks. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Codename Noreste@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=30424282 --&gt;

== Coming over From wikinews ==

Any chance someone could help me if you are allowed to write news articles here since wikinews is going read only mode soon, thank you! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 22:43, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

:The scope of Wikiversity is very broad and is basically about more-or-less any learning material. We have made it a point to not have duplicative content of other WMF projects, but since Wikinews is being shuttered, I personally am fine with writing news articles here. One thing that is not controversial at all is a learning resource &lt;em&gt;about&lt;/em&gt; how to write news: that could be hugely useful here and could involve the process of writing news stories to learn and to share back and forth with an editor or fact-checker. In fact, I'd support an entire namespace dedicated to keeping the notion of Wikinews alive here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:38, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! How do I start? Cheers! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:07, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:::I think it's premature to start just making news articles en masse, but if you want to start discussing the topic of citizen journalism, you can do that now. [[:Category:Journalism]] already has some material, so you can start by seeing what we already have, how you can refine that, etc. You can definitely have learning resources with collaborators who want to learn about journalism ASAP. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:24, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
::::thanks. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
::::If I could try and start one News Article could you please tell me how to go about it? Like what style of writing like Wikinews or something else? Thank you Justin! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:48, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Codename Noreste@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=30424282 --&gt;

== Coming over From wikinews ==

Any chance someone could help me if you are allowed to write news articles here since wikinews is going read only mode soon, thank you! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 22:43, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

:The scope of Wikiversity is very broad and is basically about more-or-less any learning material. We have made it a point to not have duplicative content of other WMF projects, but since Wikinews is being shuttered, I personally am fine with writing news articles here. One thing that is not controversial at all is a learning resource &lt;em&gt;about&lt;/em&gt; how to write news: that could be hugely useful here and could involve the process of writing news stories to learn and to share back and forth with an editor or fact-checker. In fact, I'd support an entire namespace dedicated to keeping the notion of Wikinews alive here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:38, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! How do I start? Cheers! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:07, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:::I think it's premature to start just making news articles en masse, but if you want to start discussing the topic of citizen journalism, you can do that now. [[:Category:Journalism]] already has some material, so you can start by seeing what we already have, how you can refine that, etc. You can definitely have learning resources with collaborators who want to learn about journalism ASAP. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:24, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
::::thanks. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
::::If I could try and start one News Article could you please tell me how to go about it? Like what style of writing like Wikinews or something else? Thank you Justin! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:48, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::Honestly, there are very few policies and guidelines here. I think the best way to write a news story would be in a manner that is obvious and instructive. So, for instance, it's common to use the &quot;pyramid style&quot; when you're writing news, so if you were to write a story that makes it very clear that you are using that approach, that would be helpful. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:08, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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== Requested update to [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] ==

Currently, [[Wikiversity:Interface administrators]] is a policy that includes a caveat that interface admins are not required long-term and that user right can only be added for a period of up to two weeks. I am proposing that we remove this qualification and allow for indefinite interface admin status. I think this is useful because there are reasons for tweaking the site CSS or JavaScript (e.g. to comply with dark mode), add gadgets (e.g. importing Cat-a-Lot, which I would like to do), or otherwise modifying the site that could plausibly come up on an irregular basis and requiring the overhead of a bureaucrat to add the user rights is inefficient. In particular, I am also going to request this right if the community accepts indefinite interface admins. Thoughts? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:23, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

:And who will then monitor them to make sure they don't damage the project in any way, or abuse the rights acquired in this way? For large projects, this might not be a problem, but for smaller projects like the English Wikiversity, I'm not sure if there are enough users who would say, something is happening here that shouldn't be happening. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:28, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
::Anyone would be who. This argument applies to any person with any advanced rights here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 10:46, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
:I think it is reasonable to allow for longer periods of access than 2 weeks to interface admin and support adjusting the policy to allow for this flexibility. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:57, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::+1 —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 16:38, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:@[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] I agree that the two-week requirement could be revised, but wouldn’t people just request access for a specific purpose anyway? Instead of granting indefinite access, they should request the specific time frame they need the rights for—until the planned fixes are completed—and then request an extension if more time is required. We could remove the two-week criterion while still keeping the access explicitly temporary. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:48, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
::I just don't see why this wiki needs to be different than all of the others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 07:18, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There isn’t really much of a need for a permanent one at this point in time [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 09:53, 25 January 2026 (UTC)
:I quite agree with this proposal, so long as they perform the suggested changes as mentioned here. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 04:06, 26 January 2026 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify, I support '''indefinite interface admin status'''. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:34, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:I think there is decent consensus for lengthening this, but not necessarily for indefinite permissions, so does anyone object to me revising it to the standard being 120 days instead of two weeks? I'll check back on this thread in three weeks and if there's no objection, I'll make the change. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sure [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:27, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for proposing this, Justin. I agree with the proposal to lengthen the interface admin period from 2 weeks but not indefinitely. Can I check the source(s) for the standard being 120 days (I'm guessing policies on other projects or maybe global policy?)? In any case, I think it is reasonable for us to adopt a similar period. However, note on the current policy discussion page notes from @[[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] arguing for shorter periods to lower risk, that's why it is 2 weeks. But if there are projects that need longer access, that should also be accommodated. Maybe we could adjust the policy to specify that ''interface admin rights can be given for 14 to 120 days depending on how long is required and what is supported by the community''. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::There was there was no source for 120: it was just more than 14 and less than infinity. The &quot;14 to 120&quot; also seems reasonable. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:33, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::: On some small/medium-sized wikis, such as English Wikibooks and English Wikiquote for example, indefinite interface administrator access for administrators is allowed, but they tend not to make changes to the CSS and JS page changes unless it's truly necessary. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::It's a good idea to make the length of this right on request or allow to be prolonged. However, IA should test large changes somewhere else, for example on the en.wv mirror, and only after testing it on the mirror, adapt it to the live version. That means I can't imagine a time-consuming operation right now. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:04, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Sorry, what mirror is this? Are you talking about beta.wv? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 20:32, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::Not beta.wv. Basically somewhere else then on a live wiki. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: Wouldn't testing on a user's own common.css page work anyway? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:36, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Template:AI-generated]] ==

After going through the plethora of ChatGPT-generated pages made by [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] (with many more pages to go), I'd like community input on this proposal to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] that I think would be benefical for the community:
*Resources generated by AI '''must''' be indicated as so through the project box, [[Template:AI-generated]], on either the page or the main resource (if the page is a part of a project).
I do not believe including a small note/reference that a page is AI-generated is sufficient, and I take my thinking from [[WV:Original research|Wikiversity's OR policy]] for OR work: ''Within Wikiversity, all original research should be clearly identified as such''. I believe resources created from AI should also be clearly indicated as such, especially since we are working on whether or not AI-generated resources should be allowed on the website (discussion is [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence|here]], for reference). This makes it easier for organizational purposes, and in the event ''if'' we ban AI-generated work. 

I've left a message on Lee's talk page over a week ago and did not get a response or acknowledgement, so I'd like for the community's input for this inclusion to the policy. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

:I believe that existing Wikiversity policies are sufficient. Authors are responsible for the accuracy and usefulness of the content that is published. This policy covers AI-generated content that is: 1) carefully reviewed by the author publishing it, and 2) the source is noted.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:38, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::A small reference for pages that are substantially filled with Chat-GPT entries, like [[Real Good Religion]], [[Attributing Blame]], [[Fostering Curiosity]], are not sufficient IMO and a project box would be the best indicator that a page is AI-generated (especially when there is a mixture of human created content AND AI-generated content, as present in a lot of your pages). This is useful, especially considering the notable issues with AI (including hallucinations and fabrication of details), so viewers and support staff are aware. These small notes left on the pages are not as easily viewable as a project box or banner would be. I really don't see the issue with a clear-label guideline. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 22:34, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Lbeaumont}} I noticed your reversions [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Exploring_Existential_Concerns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788278 here] &amp; [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Subjective_Awareness&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=2788257 here]. I'd prefer to have a clean conversation regarding this proposition. Please voice your concerns here. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:53, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::Regarding Subjective Awareness, I distinctly recall the effort I went to to write that the old-fashioned way. It is true that ChatGPT assisted me in augmenting the list of words suggested as candidate subjective states. This is a small section of the course, is clearly marked, and makes no factual claim. Marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading. I would have made these comments when I reverted your edit; however, the revert button does not provide that opportunity.
:::Regarding the Exploring Existential Concerns course, please note this was adapted from my EmotionalCompetency.com website, which predates the availability of LLMs. The course does include two links, clearly labeled as ChatGPT-generated. Again, marking the entire course as AI-generated is misleading.
:::On a broader issue, I don't consider your opinions to have established a carefully debated and adopted Wikiversity policy. You went ahead and modified many of my courses over my clearly stated objections. Please let this issue play out more completely before editing my courses further. Thanks.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:11, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Understood, and I respect your position. I apologize if my edits were seen as overarching. We could change the project box to &quot;a portion of this resource was generated by AI&quot;, or something along those lines. Feel free to revert my changes where you see fit, and I encourage more users to provide their input. EDIT: I've made changes to the template to indicate that a portion of the content has been generated from an LLM. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:50, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for this reply. The new banner is unduly large and alarming. There is no need for alarm here. The use of AI is not harmful per se. Like any technology, it can be used to help or to harm. I take care to craft prompts carefully, point the LMM to reliable source materials, and to carefully read and verify the generated text before I publish it. This is all in keeping with long-established Wikiversity policy. We don't want to use a  [[w:One-drop_rule|one-drop rule]] here or cause a [[w:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]. We can learn our lessons from history here. I don't see any pedagogical reason for establishing a classification of &quot;AI generated&quot;, but if there is a consensus that it is needed, perhaps it can be handled as just another category that learning resources can be assigned to. I would rather focus on identifying any errors in factual claims than on casting pejorative bias toward AI-generated content. An essay on the best practices for using LMM on Wikiveristy would be welcome.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
::::::The new banner mimics the banner that is available on the English Wikibooks (see [[b:Template:AI-generated]] &amp; [[b:Template:Uses AI]]), so my revisions aren't unique in this aspect. At this point, I'd welcome other peoples' inputs. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 19:40, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

== How do I start making pages? ==
Is there a notability guideline for Wikiversity? What is the sourcing policy for information? What is the Manual of Style? What kind of educational content qualifies for Wikiversity? All the introduction pages are a bit unclear. 
[[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 02:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

:{{ping|VidanaliK}} Welcome to Wikiversity! I've left you a welcome message on your talk page. That should help you out. Make sure to especially look at [[Wikiversity:Introduction]]. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 03:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
::It says that I can't post more pages because I have apparently exceeded the new page limit. How long does it take before that new page limit expires? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 16:57, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
:::This is a restriction for new users so that Wikiversity is not hit with massive spam. As for when this limit will expire, it should be a few days or after a certain number of edits. It's easy to overcome, though I do not have the exact numbers atm. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:08, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
::::OK, I think I got past the limit. [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 17:21, 29 January 2026 (UTC)
==Why does it feel like Wikiversity is no longer really active anymore?==
I've been looking at recent changes, and both today and yesterday there haven't been many changes that I haven't made; it feels like walking through a ghost town, is this just me or is Wikiversity not really active anymore? [[User:VidanaliK|VidanaliK]] ([[User talk:VidanaliK|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/VidanaliK|contribs]]) 03:54, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

:There is fewer people editing these days compared to the past. Many newcomers tend to edit in Wikipedia instead. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 06:39, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:It’s a little slow, but I’m happy to know that Wikiversity is a place that I think should provide value even if the activity of editors fluctuates. If it’s any consolation your edits may be encouraging for some anonymous newcomer to start edits on their own! I think it’s hard to build community when there is such a wide variety of interests and a smaller starting userbase. Also sometimes the getting into a particular topic that already exists can be intimidating because some relics (large portals, school, categories, etc.) have intricate, unique and generally messy levels of organization. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 22:16, 9 March 2026 (UTC)
:I'd say it comes down to working hard for Wikiversity, basically if somebody or a group of people will start presenting good ideas and they turn out to be provably stable.
:I even asked Google's &quot;AI Mode&quot;, what is Wikiversity famous for? Unfortunately it could not answer that.
:Simply, we have not made Wikiversity famous by presenting really provable stable ideas yet. My hope is that this time might come. Perhaps even this year 2026!
:Hope dies last. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:12, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

== Inactivity policy for Curators ==

I was wondering if there is a specific inactivity polity for curators (semi-admins) as I am pretty sure the global policy does not apply to them as they are not ''fully'' sysops. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:20, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't see an inactivity policy, but if we were to create such a new policy for curators, it should be the same for custodians (administrators). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 18:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] There is currently none, that I could find, for custodians either. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I think we should propose a local inactivity policy for custodians (and by extension, curators), which should be at least one year without any edits ''and'' logged actions. However, I don't know which page should it be when the inactivity removal procedure starts. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] In theory, there should be a section added at [[WV:Candidates for custodianship]] [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:55, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
::::: To be consistent with the [[meta:Admin activity review|global period of 2 years inactivity]] for en.wv  [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship#How are bureaucrats removed?|Bureaucrats]] we could add something like this to [[Wikiversity:Curators]]:
::::::The maximum time period of inactivity &lt;u&gt;without community review&lt;/u&gt; for curators is two years (consistent with  the [[:meta:Category:Global policies|global policy]] described at [[meta:Admin activity review|Admin activity review]] which applies for [[Wikiversity:Custodianship#Notes|Custodians]] and [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship|Bureaucrats]]). After that time a custodian will remove the rights.
::::: -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yup, I agree with Jtneill, there is a policy proposal for Wikiversity:Curators, where it should be logically deployed. The question is if we are ready to aprove the policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::: I agree, but we should notify the colloquium about inactive curators, just like a steward would do for inactive custodians and bureaucrats per [[:m:Admin activity review|AAR]]. What is the minimum timeframe an inactive curator should receive so they can respond they would keep their rights? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 17:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:I incorporated these suggestions into the proposed curators policy. Please review/comment/improve. Summary: 2 years, notify curator's user page, then remove rights after 1 month: [[Wikiversity:Curators#Inactivity]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] I created [[Template:Inactive curator]] for this. Feel free to make any changes or improvements. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:29, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to become an official policy ==
{{Archive top|After running for a week, there is consensus, alongside comments, for [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]] to be implemented as an official policy. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:27, 17 April 2026 (UTC)}}
With the introduction of AI-material, and some material just plain disruptive, its imperative that Wikiversity catches up with its sister projects and implements an official AI policy that we can work with. The recent issue of [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]'s 50+ articles that contain significantly large AI-generated material has made me came to the Colloquium. This user has also been removing the [[Template:AI-generated]] template from their pages, calling it &quot;misleading&quot;, &quot;alarmist&quot;, and &quot;pejorative&quot; - which is all just simply nonsensical rationales. Not to even mention this user's contributions to the English Wikipedia have been [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Inner_Development_Goals contested] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Multipolar_trap removed] a couple of times (for being low-quality and clearly LLM-generated), highlighting the need for an actual policy to be implemented here on Wikiversity. I would like to ping {{ping|Juandev}} and {{ping|Jtneill}} for their thoughts as well, since I'd like this to be implemented as soon as possible. 

Wikiversity has a significant issue with implementing anti-disruptive measures, hence why we have received numerous complaints as a community about our quality. I originally was reverting the removal of the templates, but realized that this is still a proposed policy, which it shouldn't be anymore. It should be a recognized Wikiversity policy. 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC) —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:54, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] '''I agree''' that the draft, should become official policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:00, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:I provided a detailed response at: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI]]
:I will appreaciate it if you consder that carefully. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Agree it should become official Wikiversity policy on the condition &lt;u&gt;that point point 5 is about [significant/substantial] LLM-generated text specifically&lt;/u&gt;. Not a good idea to overuse it, it should be added when there is substantial AI-generated text on the page, not for other cases. [[User:Prototyperspective|Prototyperspective]] ([[User talk:Prototyperspective|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prototyperspective|contribs]]) 12:37, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
:What policy is being debated? Is it the text on this page, which is pointed to by the general banner, or the text at:   [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence|Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence,]]   which is pointed to by the specific banner? Let's begin with coherence on the text being debated. Thanks!  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] This is a call for approval of the new Wikiversity policy. You expressed your opinion [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence#Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI|on the talk page of the proposal]], I replied to you and await your response.When creating policies, it is necessary to propose specific solutions. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:12, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy 
:::As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.
:::The stakeholders are:
:::1)     The users, 
:::2)     The source providers, and
:::3)     The editors
:::There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.
:::The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 
:::As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].
:::To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.
:::Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 
:::The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:
:::Recommended Policy statement:
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
:::·       Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
:::·       Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::::Do we discuss here or there? I have replied you there as your proposal is about that policy so it is tradition to discuss it at the affected talk page. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
: {{support}} Thanks for the proposed policy development and discussion; also note proposed policy talk page discussion: [[Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:05, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::I think the Wikiversity AI policy shall be official. – [[User:RestoreAccess111|RestoreAccess111]] &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Arimo, Arial;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:RestoreAccess111|Talk!]]&lt;/sup&gt; &lt;sup style=&quot;font-family:Times New Roman, Tinos;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/RestoreAccess111|Watch!]]&lt;/sup&gt; 06:11, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}

== New titles for user right nominations ==
&lt;div class=&quot;cd-moveMark&quot;&gt;''Moved from [[Wikiversity talk:Candidates for Custodianship#New titles for user right nominations]].  [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 23:20, 17 April 2026 (UTC)''&lt;/div&gt;

I would like to propose the following retitles should a user be nominated for any of the following user rights:
* Curator: Candidates for Curatorship
* Bureaucrat: Candidates for Bureaucratship
The reason is that many curator (and probably bureaucrat) requests have run solely under {{tq|Candidates for Custodianship}}, but that title might sound misleading (especially in regards to the permission a user is requesting). CheckUser and Oversight (suppressor) are not included above since no user was nominated for these sensitive permissions, probably. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 01:30, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:And it's not that when someone at the beginning misplaced the request, no one thought to move it and the others copied it. Even today, it would be possible to simply take it all and move it. Otherwise, for me, the more fundamental problem is that there is [[Wikiversity:Curators|no approved policy for curators]] than where the requests are based. Curators then operate in a certain vacuum and if one of them &quot;breaks out of the chain&quot;, the average user doesn't have many transparent tools to deal with it, because there is no policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 07:02, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
::I am not talking about the curator page (policy proposal). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:08, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] I'll see if I can do an overhaul of [[Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship]], just like I recently did with the Requests for adminship page on English Wikiquote. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:17, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, great idea - ideally there will be separate &quot;Candidates for ...&quot; pages for each user right group. The most important for now is to separate curator and custodian pages as CN suggests. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Technical Request:  Courtesy link.. ==

[[Template_talk:Information#Background_must_have_color_defined_as_well]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
: I can't edit the template directly as it need an sysop/interface admin to do it. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
:: Also if the Template field of - https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/night-mode-unaware-background-color is examined, there is poential for an admin to clear a substantial proportion of these by implmenting a simmilar fix to the indciated templates (and underlying stylesheets). It would be nice to clear things like Project box and others, as many other templates (and thus pages depend on them.) :)
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 11:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be best to grant you interface admin rights for a short period of time to make these changes. However, I still have doubts about the suitability of this solution, which may cause other problems and no one has explained to me why dark mode has to be implemented this way @[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:43, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

: I would have reservations about holding such rights, which is why I was trying to do what I could without needing them. However if it is the only way to get the required changes made, I would suggest asking on Wikipedia to find technical editors, willing to undertake the changes needed. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ShakespeareFan00|contribs]]) 09:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

== WikiEducator has closed ==

Some of you may know of a similar project to Wikiversity, called [https://wikieducator.org/Main_Page WikiEducator], championed by [https://oerfoundation.org/about/staff/wayne-mackintosh/ Wayne Mackintosh][https://www.linkedin.com/posts/waynemackintosh_important-notice-about-the-oer-foundation-activity-7405113051688931329-Nhm9/][https://openeducation.nz/killed-not-starved/].

It seems [https://openeducation.nz/terminating-oer-foundation their foundation has closed] and they are no longer operating.

They had done quite a bit of outreach (e.g., in the Pacific and Africa) to get educators using wiki.

The WikiEducator content is still available in MediaWiki - and potentially could be imported to Wikiversity ([https://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Copyrights CC-BY-SA] is the default license).

The closing of WikiEducator arguably makes the nurturing of Wikiversity even more important.

-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I was never active there. If anyone has an account or is otherwise in contact, we may want to copy relevant information here or even at [[:outreach:]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 04:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:: I reached out to [[User:Mackiwg~enwikiversity|Wayne]] in January, and he responded briefly but positively (while travelling).  I wrote to the low-traffic wikieducator mailing list today and got a nice [https://groups.google.com/g/wikieducator/c/r_yIyUw6ZIA reply] from [[user:SteveFoerster|Steve Foerster]] who's interested in helping. If we can figure out a migration path it would be great to adopt at least the main namespace pages here.  
:: A few questions that come to mind: 
:: - would people want to create matching user accounts
:: - are there any namespaces (user/talk?) that should not be moved over
:: We could look at how this was done for the [[m:Wikivoyage/Migration]] wikivoyage migration. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 04:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:::That's fantastic, SJ, that you've reached out and that Wayne, Steve, and Jim are receptive—and that you can help! -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikinews is ending ==

Apparently mainly due to low editorial activity, low public interest, but also failure to achieve the goals from the proposal for the creation of the project, the Wikinews project is ending after years of discussions ([[Meta:Proposal for Closing Wikinews|some reading]]).

And I would be interested to see how Wikiversity is doing in the monitored metrics. We probably have more editors than Wikinews had, but what about consumers and achieving the goals? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 19:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Wikiversity's biggest issue in recent times was the hosting of low-quality, trash content. Thankfully we've done a great job in removing pseudoscience and other embarrassingly trash content (Wikidebates, for example), but the biggest concern moving forward is proper maintenance IMO. I've caught several pseudoscience pages being created within the last few months that could easily have flown under the radar (ex, [[The Kelemen Dilemma: Causal Collapse and Axiomatic Instability]]), so I'd urge our custodians/curators to be on the lookout for this type of content. Usually an AI-overview can point this type of content out relatively well.
:In terms of visibility, I believe Wikiversity is a high-traffic project. I remember my [[Mathematical Properties]] showing up on the first page of Google when searching up &quot;math properties&quot; for the longest time (and is still showing up in the first page 'till this day!). Besides, Wikinews hosted a lot of short-term content (the nature of news articles), while Wikiversity hosts content that can still be useful a decade later (ex, [[A Reader's Guide to Annotation]]). 
:I think we are on a better path than we were a few months ago, and I do want to thank everyone here who has been helping out with maintaining our website! —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:48, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, the group that did that study has since disbanded, so no one is monitoring the other sister projects in the same way. Additionally, Wikinews had some catastrophic server issues due to the maintenance of [[:m:Extension:DynamicPageList]] which don't apply here. Your questions are still worth addressing, but I just wanted to cut off any concern at the pass about Wikiversity being in the same precarious situation. Wikiversity is definitely the biggest &quot;lagging behind&quot; or &quot;failure&quot; project now that Wikinews is being shuttered, but I don't see any near- or medium-term pathway to closing Wikiversity. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 00:46, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:[[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2026-03-31/News and notes|Entirety of Wikinews to be shut down]] (Wikipedia Signpost) -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

== Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226) ==

Hello everyone,

This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as &lt;code&gt;Module:Itemgroup/list&lt;/code&gt;).

'''The Change:'''&lt;br /&gt;
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]], combined with the qualifier [[:d:Property:P180|P180]]: [[:d:Q19571328|Q19571328]]. 

We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property: '''[[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]]'''.

'''What You Need To Do:'''&lt;br /&gt;
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from [[:d:Property:P14226|P14226]] instead of the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] + [[:d:Property:P180|P180]] structure. A [[m:Wikidata/Property Migration: P1846 to P14226/List|list of pages]] was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.

'''Deadline:'''&lt;br /&gt;
We are temporarily retaining the old data on [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old [[:d:Property:P1846|P1846]] statements will be removed after '''May 1, 2026'''. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.

Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help! [[User:ZI Jony|ZI Jony]] using [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:ZI Jony@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Non-Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list&amp;oldid=29941252 --&gt;
:I didnt find such properties, so we are probably fine. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
:: +1 (agreed). [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

== Enable the abuse filter block action? ==

In light of [[Special:AbuseLog/80178]] (coupon spam), I would like to propose enabling the block action for the abuse filter. Only custodians will be able to enable and disable that action on an abuse filter, and it is useful to block ongoing vandalism. Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 19:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

:Seems like a good idea, almost all of the users which create such pages are spambots so this shouldn’t be a problem. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 23:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
:Can you explain some more (I am new to abuse filters)? It looks like the attempted edit was prevented? Which abuse filter?
:Note on your suggestion, have also reactivated Antispam Filter 12 - see [[WV:RCA]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:45, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I am proposing that we activate the abuse filter block action, which if a user triggers an abuse filter, it would actually block the user in question - the same mechanism that a custodian would use to block users. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 13:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::OK, thankyou, that makes sense. And, reviewing the abuse filter 12 log, it would be helpful because it would prevent the need for manual blocking. But I don't see a setting for autoblocking? -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 23:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::: I think it probably adds an autoblock. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
: [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] and [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], given that a little bit more than a week has passed and there is minimal consensus to activate the abuse filter block action, I filed [[phab:T424053]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:05, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank-you for doing this. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:03, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

== Advice needed: A Neurodiversity-inspired Idea/observation ==

If I want the greatest participation of others to &quot;provide constructive criticism to my idea&quot; or to &quot;shoot down my idea&quot; or &quot;idea&quot;.

What I've called it so far is &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea&quot;. At other times I used more sensationalist wording but here on Wikiversity I don't dare do that. I actually woke up with thinking about putting this into my userspace draft: &quot;Personal Observations Made By Meeting Autistic and Non-Autistic Adults&quot;.

My ultimate goal is to stop blathering about my &quot;idea&quot; to friend and family without feeling my &quot;methodology&quot; is going into any progressive direction whatsoever. My latest encounter was somewhat constructive though. A friend of a friend who worked with people presenting ideas in attempting to getting grants. I don't want a grant. I just want to figure out how I can express my &quot;idea&quot; in a way so that I can more clearly figure out what flaws it got.

At the same time I tend to overthink. If anyone thinks etherpad might be a good place and considering Wikimedia already got an etherpad at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ if anyone feels like they know me better in the future feel free to suggest a &quot;session&quot; on etherpad.

'''If I don't receive a reply to this in 1 week's time I will begin to explore this &quot;idea&quot; into my userspace''' unless you replied and refrained me from doing so, of course. Then maybe after &quot;developing it there&quot; I might reference it to you another future time here in the Colloquium, with my &quot;idea&quot; still in my userspace draft. This &quot;idea&quot; is sort of a burden, I'm happy I've made the choice to get rid of it and hopefully move on with my life, unless there is something to this &quot;idea&quot;. 

My failure is probably evident: I feel I haven't told you anything. Same happened to when I talked to friends and family. In danger of overthinking it further I'll publish this right now. I need to &quot;keep it together&quot; [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Good on you putting it out there ... and hitting publish :). I'd say go for it (no need to wait), give birth to your idea and share about it here and elsewhere. Let it take shape and see where it might go. In many ways, this is exactly what an open collaborative learning community should be doing. Others might not know well how to respond, so perhaps consider creating some questions to accompany the idea. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for encouraging me in developing the idea.
::I have created a &quot;questions&quot; section in the draft which is visible in the table of contents now. My brain was &quot;frozen&quot; today metaphorically speaking in that I felt I had like a &quot;writer's block&quot; so the draft has more &quot;AI/LLM&quot; content than before. I used the LLM for generating questions. The answers are so far human-only.
::I've also created a subsection where I could add the prompts that made the LLM generate the questions. That could help people make better prompts perhaps. I've described what it is about inside of it and there are some chaotically written notes.
::[[Draft:The_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea#Questions_that_might_encourage_the_development_of_this_idea_and_its_methodology]]
::My draft is missing stuff. Any questions that you contribute to my draft will probably help me and if I don't understand the questions I'll probably notify you and also at the same time &quot;feed them&quot; to an LLM and ask in my input like &quot;explain in simple words what this question means, what is it searching for?&quot; etc. while I wait for an answer. If you have any more feedback please give it to me here or on the Draft page, its talk page or my user talk page. Thank you for helping me! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 21:20, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::Today I woke up with not only thinking about supplying questions along with the &quot;idea&quot; but also answers. ie. Is it possible to &quot;test&quot; this idea? Is it possible to create one or multiple hypotheses based on this &quot;idea&quot;?(etc.) I've thought about this before in this &quot;idea&quot; but since I'm beginning to add to Wikiversity what was previously 'locked in my mind' it's also easier for me to see what I've done so far. Thank you for this comment! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 09:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish. Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet. Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible. Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents. --  [[User:Eric.LEWIN|Eric.LEWIN]] ([[User talk:Eric.LEWIN|discussion]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eric.LEWIN|contributions]]) 10:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::Sorry about the false positive on the profanity filter - I've fixed it. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:26, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
:::&quot;May I think that you should not add deadlines ; being read, and rising interest for collaboration, or even simply for exchange of thoughts, such an effective meeting event loads a huge bunch of unprobability, which time can help to… somehow diminish.&quot;
::Thank you Eric for this comment. Trust in time is how I interpret it. I should not feel like I need to be in a hurry. I'll try to give this time. Thank you!
:::&quot;Maybe, I would advice you having a central place for developping your ideas, your needs, your advances, maybe a page in your own user zone, and from time to time, depending your feeling, it could be every trimester or so, or more frequently, you could write a short account of progress (or even of no progress), or a call for participation, in such a place as this present one ; I think that will increase much exposure of your projet.&quot;
::A central place for developing or making &quot;project notes&quot; regarding the Neurodiversity idea on my userspace, I might need that, like a diary or &quot;project notes&quot; of the Neurodiversity idea similar to my course notes regarding my experience with Coursera.
::Any actions I take are going to be related to my Userspace from now on but I'll also update the draft when necessary. Now in the beginning I might be working daily to once every 3 days on both the draft and the daily notes I plan to make.
:::&quot;Maybe also, if you can find a project name, not necessarily very meaningfull by itseilf (at least it will gain signification with time, as your project develops), that will serve as a kind-of hook, and make your announcement titles more visible.&quot;
::Thank you for the advice. I was brainstorming yesterday about it. I concluded that since I've not yet developed a methodology that adheres to &quot;Do no harm&quot; and this is my first time working my &quot;idea&quot; into a way that is compatible with how projects develop on English Wikiversity this is new to me. My methodology isn't developed and therefore trying to get attention to my project through a name can wait. Yesterday I figured out a silly title that has nothing to do with the project: &quot;Planetary Awareness Potato Cabbage Rolls&quot; or something like that. Google output read that no such thing exists so I wanted it mainly to be unique. I don't want to raise attention that I'm unsure whether I'll actually be capable of developing a methodology for but project notes is my best bet so far in tracking my progress. Every day I think about this &quot;idea&quot; but I need to improve the important parts.
:::&quot;Best regards (and my excuses for my poor command of English, which seems to be unplease an anti-abuse filter, &quot;Questionable Language (profanity)&quot;, which I don't understand…). My few cents.&quot;
::You added great points and I felt that I was helped by you! I encourage you to post again and I can understand that interacting with any kind of automated filter can be discouraging and can be for me too! Thank you for giving me feedback! [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 16:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

== Add some user rights to the curator user group? ==

By default, only custodians have the ability to mark new pages as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;) and have their own page creations automatically marked as patrolled (&lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt;). I am proposing both of the following:
* Curators can mark new pages as patrolled, helping on reducing the backlog of new, unpatrolled pages.
* New pages made by curators will be automatically marked as patrolled by the MediaWiki software.
Before we implement this, I would suggest implementing a proposed guideline for marking new pages as patrolled for curators and custodians.

Thoughts? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 16:32, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree, &lt;s&gt;also can we also allow curators to undelete pages since they already have the rights to delete them?&lt;/s&gt; [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 02:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::I think the requirement that undelete NOT be included came from above (meta / stewards / central office). Having access to the undelete page gives access to information that is restricted by their policies to admins (custodians and bureaucrats). -- [[User:Dave Braunschweig|Dave Braunschweig]] ([[User talk:Dave Braunschweig|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dave Braunschweig|contribs]]) 20:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::: [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]], unless if requests for curator and custodian should be RfA-like processes (that is, including voting and comments), then I have to agree with Dave above. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 22:03, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I didn’t realise that. Withdrawing my comment.. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 00:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} Seems reasonable and would reduce overhead. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 14:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Agree''', implement it also to [[Wikiversity:Curators]] proposal please. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 17:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: I went ahead and filed [[phab:T424445]]. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 15:39, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Curators|Curators and curators policy]] ==

How does it come, that Wikiversity has curators, but Curators policy is still being proposed? How do the curators exists and act if the policy about them havent been approved yet? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:33, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

:It looks as if it is not just curators. The policy on Bureaucratship is still being proposed as well. See [[Wikiversity:Bureaucratship]]. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:33, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

:I think its just the nature of a small WMF sister project in that there are lots of drafts, gaps, and potential improvements. In this case, these community would need to vote on those proposed Wikiversity staff policies if we think they're ready. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 02:08, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
:What? I thought you were getting it approved, Juandev... :) [[User:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris]] ([[User talk:I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/I&amp;#39;m Mr. Chris|contribs]]) 14:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
::Yeah I think this one is important too and we need to aprove it too @[[User:I'm Mr. Chris|I'm Mr. Chris]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 15:56, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I thinks its ready to made into a policy, it seems to be complete and informative about what the rights does and how to get it. [[User:PieWriter|PieWriter]] ([[User talk:PieWriter|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PieWriter|contribs]]) 03:08, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Agree -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:00, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Let's make this the official discussion about adopting the [[Wikiversity:Curators|curators policy]] policy. Your comments are invited and welcome. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 08:40, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
: There were two similar Colloquium threads in separate places about the proposed curators policy. So I've moved them to be adjacent. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Wikiversity:Curators to become a policy ==

I've looked at the discussions about the Curators policy, I've looked at the practices, and it seems to me that there is no dispute about the wording of the policy, and what's more, the community has been using this proposal as if it were an offical policy for several years. Therefore, I propose that [[Wikiversity:Curators]] become a policy. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:{{support}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 18:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 20:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
: {{support|Yes, please}}. Especially after when I and PieWriter proposed above, I agree. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 14:27, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]]; as of now, curators now have the user rights &lt;code&gt;autopatrol&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;patrol&lt;/code&gt;. Perhaps we should also include that in [[Wikiversity:Custodianship]]? [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 12:07, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
:{{support}} -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 12:42, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
:{{Support}} per nom. [[User:PhilDaBirdMan|PhilDaBirdMan]] ([[User talk:PhilDaBirdMan|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/PhilDaBirdMan|contribs]]) 13:32, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Inactive curators ==

Hello, even though [[Wikiversity:Curators]] is not a policy yet, there are curators listed here that have been inactive for two years or more:
* {{user|Cody naccarato}} (last edit on 13 Dec 2022, last logged action on 10 Dec 2022)
* {{user|Praxidicae}} (last edit on 10 Sep 2022, last logged action on 12 Sep 2022)
[[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 21:14, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

:Yup, I would remove the rights. To get the rights back if theyll come back should not be a big deal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 20:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
:: When they don't reply by May 19, feel free (or any custodian) to do so. [[User:Codename Noreste|Codename Noreste]] ([[User talk:Codename Noreste|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Codename Noreste|contribs]]) 00:28, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? ==

Is anyone interested in Neurodiversity? Is there anyone here who is interested for Neurodiversity to be &quot;something more&quot; than it already is? Does anyone here consider Neurodiversity one of the &quot;harder topics&quot; to work on or discuss? Does anyone here have an opinion about the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]? So these questions don't appear like &quot;out of a vacuum&quot; I can tell you a bit about my background:

Many years ago I got a psychiatric diagnosis &quot;Asperger's&quot;. After I stepped out of the office and my Äsperger's was 'concluded', I stepped out into the street and thought my first negative thought(but the positive thought followed after). The thought was about concentration camps in the second world war and that the world seemed to be going into the direction of &quot;labeling others&quot;. I was unsure whether this was &quot;real science&quot; and sort of &quot;challenged myself&quot; to make up my own mind after meeting people that had been given this diagnosis. The more adults with this diagnosis I met the more I started seeing &quot;patterns&quot;.

Was it a coincidence that the first person with Asperger's I met reminded me about my father later after I had plenty of times of experience with interacting with him? None of the people I interacted with online through IRC text chat...I felt I got any clue about how &quot;their brains work&quot;. Only when I met one person from the Asperger's chat community in person we both realized that whatever we experienced was akin to the &quot;chaos theory&quot;. He told me about &quot;chaos theory&quot; while I didn't know even what that term meant but I guess I 'read between the lines'. My question that I linger on still today is &quot;did he understand about me what I think I understood about him?&quot;? That our brains had the same configuration? Most autistic adults who meet other autistic adults usually get disappointed. They think the diagnosis will help them meet somebody like themselves and then they realize the great diversity in the autistic spectrum created by Psychiatry.

I later stopped interacting with autistic communities that much, I felt that it did not benefit me. Also Neurodiversity's &quot;neurotypes&quot; interested me for a while until I realized I had &quot;misunderstood everything&quot; about them and how they are used in the Neurodiversity Movement or &quot;Neurodiversity community&quot; if that even can precisely be defined? I doubt it but if you want to contribute to the [[Neurodiversity Movement]]. My previous attempts failed as I got more and more confused. I think a community project needs a community. With a lack of that I don't think it is worth my time. If any of you would like to work on that project let me know on my talk page.

So I was kinda lost and was talking to my friend and psychologist and I realized if I never talk about my idea to anyone in a &quot;comprehensive way&quot; or show that it matters to me nothing is going to ever happen. So I started talking about my &quot;idea&quot; more. Nobody could understand the &quot;idea&quot; because I had not developed my skills regarding where to start...although the process had already started &quot;automatically&quot; and that's why I often think of &quot;well my brain sort of activated me&quot;. I don't feel like I did have a plan and this idea happened. It happened &quot;by itself&quot;. My brain reacted to what I was seeing in a video or stream.

I value interaction highly in this idea. I think it would be helpful to make a community of people who are not paranoid about stuff that can express itself like &quot;don't analyze me!&quot;, &quot;don't compare me to anyone!&quot;. 

On the contrary, more often than not those adults who were diagnosed were actually openly comparing themselves with each other and I think that is healthy in a &quot;science&quot; way if done the &quot;right way&quot; which probably means &quot;Do no harm&quot;.

I found video material is important but I'm very unsure if uploading own video material to Wikimedia Commons would constitute a &quot;reasonable&quot; use of the resources there. Maybe somebody here needs to ask more questions to me that I should answer before that happens. I also know the '''be bold''' so I could just do what I think might be ok. Though I work better in a group as long as I know what &quot;group configurations&quot; help me. This is in a non-profit way. Since the state supported me this might be a way I am trying to &quot;give back&quot; to the state and &quot;the world&quot;. May seem overly ambitious and crazy but this thing gives me energy. It gives me hope when trying to develop this idea. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

== Request for comment (global AI policy) ==

&lt;bdi lang=&quot;en&quot; dir=&quot;ltr&quot; class=&quot;mw-content-ltr&quot;&gt;A [[:m:Requests for comment/Artificial intelligence policy|request for comment]] is currently being held to decide on a global AI policy. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:58, 26 April 2026 (UTC)&lt;/bdi&gt;
&lt;!-- Message sent by User:Codename Noreste@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Distribution_list/Global_message_delivery&amp;oldid=30424282 --&gt;

== Coming over From wikinews ==

Any chance someone could help me if you are allowed to write news articles here since wikinews is going read only mode soon, thank you! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 22:43, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

:The scope of Wikiversity is very broad and is basically about more-or-less any learning material. We have made it a point to not have duplicative content of other WMF projects, but since Wikinews is being shuttered, I personally am fine with writing news articles here. One thing that is not controversial at all is a learning resource &lt;em&gt;about&lt;/em&gt; how to write news: that could be hugely useful here and could involve the process of writing news stories to learn and to share back and forth with an editor or fact-checker. In fact, I'd support an entire namespace dedicated to keeping the notion of Wikinews alive here. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:38, 1 May 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! How do I start? Cheers! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:07, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:::I think it's premature to start just making news articles en masse, but if you want to start discussing the topic of citizen journalism, you can do that now. [[:Category:Journalism]] already has some material, so you can start by seeing what we already have, how you can refine that, etc. You can definitely have learning resources with collaborators who want to learn about journalism ASAP. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 01:24, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
::::thanks. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
::::If I could try and start one News Article could you please tell me how to go about it? Like what style of writing like Wikinews or something else? Thank you Justin! @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]] [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:48, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::Honestly, there are very few policies and guidelines here. I think the best way to write a news story would be in a manner that is obvious and instructive. So, for instance, it's common to use the &quot;pyramid style&quot; when you're writing news, so if you were to write a story that makes it very clear that you are using that approach, that would be helpful. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 02:08, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::cool thanks. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 02:13, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>WikiEducator</title>
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        <username>Jtneill</username>
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      <minor />
      <comment>/* See also */</comment>
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      <text bytes="2220" sha1="m1v5mxql6tw420i1ddstuejt932nsml" xml:space="preserve">[[Image:wikieducator-logo.png|right]]
'''WikiEducator''' is an education-oriented wiki that aims to produce a free version of the education curriculum. WikiEducator has a collection of learning content in a variety of disciplines, with a unique approach to developing learning content. The project has a strong focus on users contributing free content resources, often linking incentives to the process of contribution to encourage users to participate; as a result, WikiEducator has built up a strong content database.

The WikiEducator site is powered by the [[w:MediaWiki|MediaWiki]] software, which also powers [[Wikiversity]], however WikiEducator has taken advantage of innovative extensions to the software to provide further technical infrastructure to facilitate learning. For example, the project is experimenting with collaborative video through the Kaltura system.

As of 2026, it no longer has funding from New Zealand and may be shut down.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://openeducation.nz/|title=Open Education NZ – Supporting the UNESCO OER Recommendation in Aotearoa New Zealand|language=en-NZ|access-date=2026-05-01}}&lt;/ref&gt;

==Relationship with Wikiversity==
The founder of WikiEducator, Dr. [[User:Mackiwg|Wayne Mackintosh]], sits on the [[Foundation:Advisory_Board|Advisory Board]] of the [[Wikimedia Foundation]], and has a Wikiversity account. [[User:Countrymike]]/BrentSimpson and [[User:Leighblackall]] are admins/custodians on both WikiEducator and Wikiversity. [[m:User:Eloquence|Erik Möller]] from Wikipedia and various other Wikimedia projects is on the [http://wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Community_Council/Members WikiEducator Community Council] and has run the hosting for WikiEducator as of April 2006. [[User:Leighblackall]] and [[User:Ktucker]] have also been significant contributors to both wikis and both are on the WikiEducator Community Council.

==See also==
{{wikipedia}}
* [[Educational wikis#Wikiversity and WikiEducator|Wikiversity and WikiEducator]]

==External links==
* [http://www.wikieducator.org WikiEducator]
* [http://wikieducator.org/stats/reports/ WikiEducator Statistics]
* [http://en.wikieducator.org/Initiatives Initiatives@WikiEducator]

[[Category:WikiEducator]]</text>
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  <page>
    <title>World War II/Important People</title>
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      <text bytes="1098" sha1="t3tiqswiaopxz76038drjwdrgt6yipj" xml:space="preserve">This is a list of people in WWII (World War Two) who were of importance, divided into the Allies and the Axis, the two major alliances.

==Allies==
# [[Franklin D Roosevelt]] (FDR) of the USA; president from 1933-1945, died during World War II.
# [[Wikipedia:Joseph Stalin|Joseph Stalin]] of the Soviet Union
# [[Wikipedia:Harry S. Truman|Harry S. Truman]] of the USA; president after FDR
# [[Wikipedia:Winston Churchill|Winston Churchill]] of Great Britain, Prime Minister from 1940-1945
# [[Wikipedia:Chiang Kai-shek|Chiang Kai-shek]] of China
# [[Wikipedia:Charles de Gaulle|Charles de Gaulle]] of France

===Secondary leaders===

# [[Wikipedia:Neville Chamberlain|Neville Chamberlain of Great Britain]]; prime minister from 1937-1940, succeeded by Churchill
# [[Wikipedia:Władysław Raczkiewicz|Władysław Raczkiewicz]] President and head of state of Poland from 1939-47

==Axis==
# [[World War II/Important People/Adolf Hitler|Adolf Hitler]] of Germany
# [[Benito Mussolini]] of Italy
# [[Hirohito]] of Japan
# [[Hideki Tojo]], Japanese general and prime minister


[[Category:World War II]]</text>
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    <title>User:Jtneill/Publications</title>
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        <id>10242</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* 2013 */ + 1</comment>
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      <text bytes="9000" sha1="lmwxdxns9sdtzzr9hh7xyfcqx3zoju6" xml:space="preserve">See also: [[User:Jtneill/Research|Research]]
==[[../Research/Profiles|Profiles]]==
{{../Research/Profiles}}
&lt;!-- ==2026==
--&gt;
==2025==
{{Hanging indent|1=
Brichacek, A., Neill, J. T., Murray, K., Rieger, E., Watsford, C. (2025). Body Image Flexibility and Inflexibility Scale (BIFIS). In W. Ramseyer Winter, T. L. Tylka, &amp; A. M. Landor (Eds.), ''Handbook of body image-related measures''. Cambridge University Press (pp. 118–121). https://doi.org/10.1017/9781009398275.039

{{User:Jtneill/Publications/2025/Body}}&lt;!--
Neill, J. T., Herbert, S., Hartley, R., &amp; D'Cunha, N. (in preparation). ''Art for Wellbeing at the National Gallery of Australia: Thematic analysis of participant and staff perspectives''.

Lozancic Babic, V. &amp; Neill, J. T. ...  --&gt;
}}

==2024==
{{Hanging indent|1=

Black, H. M., &amp; Neill, J. T. (2024). Wellbeing through nature: A qualitative exploration of psychosocial aspects of a Landcare ACT nature-connection program. ''Journal of Outdoor and Environmental Education''. https://doi.org/10.1007/s42322-024-00184-2

Boerma, M., Beel, N., Neill, J. T., Jeffries, C., Krishnamoorthy, G., &amp; Guerri-Guttenberg, J. (2024). Male-friendly counselling for young men: a thematic analysis of client and caregiver experiences of Menslink counselling. ''Australian Psychologist'', 1–12. https://doi.org/10.1080/00050067.2024.2378119 ([https://www.researchgate.net/publication/385649063_Male-friendly_counselling_for_young_men_a_thematic_analysis_of_client_and_caregiver_experiences_of_Menslink_counselling#fullTextFileContent pdf])

Brichacek, A. L., Neill, J. T., Murray, K., Rieger, E., &amp; Watsford, C. (accepted). The Body Image Flexibility and Inflexibility Scale (BIFIS). In V. Ramseyer Winter, T.  Tylka, &amp; A. Landor (Eds.), ''Handbook of body image-related measures'' (pp. *–*). Cambridge University Press.

Brichacek, A. L., Neill, J. T., Murray, K., Rieger, E., &amp; Watsford, C. (2024). The distinct affect regulation functions of body image flexibility and inflexibility: A prospective study in adolescents and emerging adults. ''Body Image'', ''50'', 101726. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.bodyim.2024.101726

{{User:Jtneill/Publications/2024/Collaborative}}

Neill, J. T. &amp; Black. H. (2024). ''[https://landcareact.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Wellbeing-through-Nature-Final-Report.pdf Landcare ACT Wellbeing through Nature program evaluation: Final report'']. University of Canberra, Australia.

{{User:Jtneill/Publications/2024/Rich}}

}}

==2023==
{{Hanging indent|1=
Brichacek, A. L., Neill, J. T., Murray, K., Rieger, E., &amp; Watsford, C. (2023). Ways of responding to body image threats: Development of the Body Image Flexibility and Inflexibility Scale for Youth. ''Journal of Contextual Behavioral Science'', ''30'', 31–40. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jcbs.2023.08.007

{{/2023/WIL}}

Ross, B. M., &amp; Neill, J. T. (2023). Exploring the relationship between mental health, drug use, personality, and attitudes towards psilocybin-assisted therapy. ''[https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/2054-overview.xml Journal of Psychedelic Studies]'', ''7''(2), 114–118. https://doi.org/10.1556/2054.2023.00264}}

==2022==
{{Hanging indent|1=

Neill, J. T., Goch, I., Sullivan, A., &amp; Simons, M. (2022). The role of burn camp in the recovery of young people from burn injury: A qualitative study using long-term follow-up interviews with parents and participants. ''Burns'', ''48''(5), 1139–1148. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.burns.2021.09.020

Stevenson, D. J., Neill, J. T., Ball, K., Smith, R., &amp; Shores, M. C. (2022). How do preschool to year 6 educators prevent and cope with occupational violence from students? ''Australian Journal of Education'', ''66''(2), 154–170. https://doi.org/10.1177/00049441221092472. [https://www.teachermagazine.com/au_en/articles/the-research-files-episode-77-coping-with-violence-from-students Podcast].

}}

==2021==
{{Hanging indent|1=Brichacek, A. L., Murray, K., Neill, J. T., &amp; Rieger, E. (2021). Contextual behavioral approaches to understanding body image threats and coping in youth: A qualitative study. ''Journal of Adolescent Research'', ''39''(2), 328–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/07435584211007851}}

==2020==
{{Hanging indent|1=Boerma, M., &amp; Neill, J. (2020). The role of grit and self-control in university student academic achievement and satisfaction. ''College Student Journal'', ''54''(4), 431–442.

Boerma, M., Neill, J., &amp; Brown, P. (2020). Perseverance of effort moderates the relationship between psychological distress and life satisfaction. ''European Journal of Applied Positive Psychology'', ''4''(16), 1–11. https://www.nationalwellbeingservice.org/volumes/volume-4-2020/volume-4-article-16/}}

==2018==
{{Hanging indent|1=Neill, J. T. (2018). ''[https://menslink.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/UC-Report-into-Long-term-Impacts-of-Menslink-Counselling-and-Mentoring-Oct-2018.pdf Long-term impacts of Menslink counselling and mentoring]''. University of Canberra.}}

==2017==
{{Hanging indent|1=Booth, J. W., &amp; Neill, J. T. (2017). Coping strategies and the development of psychological resilience. ''Journal of Outdoor and Environmental Education'', ''20''(1), 47–54. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF03401002}}

==2016==
{{Hanging indent|1=

Bowen, D. J., &amp; Neill, J. T. (2016). Effects of the PCYC Catalyst outdoor adventure intervention program on youths' life skills, mental health, and delinquent behaviour. ''International Journal of Adolescence and Youth'', ''21''(1), 34–55. https://doi.org/10.1080/02673843.2015.1027716

Bowen, D. J., Neill, J. T., &amp; Crisp, S. J. (2016). Wilderness adventure therapy effects on the mental health of youth participants. ''Evaluation and Program Planning'', ''58'', 49–59. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.evalprogplan.2016.05.005

{{/2016/Internationalisation}}}}

==2013==
{{Hanging indent|1=
Bowen, D. J., &amp; Neill, J. T. (2013). A meta-analysis of adventure therapy outcomes and moderators. ''The Open Psychology Journal'', ''6''(1). http://dx.doi.org/10.2174/1874350120130802001
{{/2013/Promoting}}

{{/2013/Teaching}}
}}

==2011==
{{Hanging indent|1=

Gray, T. L. &amp; Neill, J. T. (2011). Program evaluation. In ''[https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/risk-management-in-the-outdoors/8B270918DA02077EB040BF2A4646FA7F Risk management in the outdoors: A whole-of-organisation approach for education, sport and recreation]'' (pp. 164–182). Cambridge University Press. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9781139192682.010

Neill, J. T., &amp; Gray, T. L. (2011). Technology, risk and outdoor programming. In ''[https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/risk-management-in-the-outdoors/8B270918DA02077EB040BF2A4646FA7F Risk management in the outdoors: A whole-of-organisation approach for education, sport and recreation]'' (pp. 132–149). Cambridge University Press. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9781139192682.008
}}

==2010==
Mackay, G. J., &amp; Neill, J. T. (2010). The effect of “green exercise” on state anxiety and the role of exercise duration, intensity, and greenness: A quasi-experimental study. ''Psychology of Sport and Exercise'', ''11''(3), 238–245. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.psychsport.2010.01.002

==2008==
{{Hanging indent|1=Neill, J. T. (2008). Enhancing life effectiveness: The impacts of outdoor education programs. [Unpublished doctoral dissertation]. University of Western Sydney. https://researchdirect.westernsydney.edu.au/islandora/object/uws:6441/}}

==2002==
{{/2002/Dramaturgy}}

==1997==
Hattie, J., Marsh, H. W., Neill, J. T., &amp; Richards, G. E. (1997). Adventure education and Outward Bound: Out-of-class experiences that make a lasting difference. ''Review of Educational Research'', ''67''(1), 43-87. https://doi.org/10.3102/00346543067001043

==Reports==
{{Hanging indent|1=
Neill, J. T. &amp; Bowen, D. J. (2014). ''[https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2N4zSp4hmN9WUF3bzhuZ3JoNGM/view?usp=sharing&amp;resourcekey=0-y0ZTjcdhHXqQKNtz50BW0A Research evaluation of PCYC Bornhoffen Catalyst intervention programs for youth-at-risk &lt;nowiki&gt;[&lt;/nowiki&gt;2012-2013&lt;nowiki&gt;]&lt;/nowiki&gt;]''. University of Canberra.
}}

==Theses==
* [[User:Jtneill/PhD|PhD]]
&lt;!-- 
==Published==
* [http://www.wilderdom.com/JamesNeill/JamesNeillpublications.htm Articles &amp; presentations by James Neill]
--&gt;

==Ideas / In progress==
* [[User:Jtneill/4 pillars of free and open teaching|4 pillars of free and open teaching]]
* Some international trends in outdoor education - Past, present, and future
* Ingando camp (life effectiveness)
* Life Effectiveness Questionnaire psychometrics
* OE outcomes (longitudinal study)
* Adolescent Coping Scale psychometrics
* Resilience Scale psychometrics
* Overview of Outdoor Education Theory and/or Research
* Overview of Outdoor Education in Australia
* Overview of Adventure Therapy Theory and/or Education
* Past Trends and Future Directions for Outdoor Education
* Psychological Aspects of Outdoor Education
* Outdoor Education and Modern Technology
* Outdoor Education and Environmental Sustainability

==See also==
* [[User:Jtneill/Presentations]]</text>
      <sha1>lmwxdxns9sdtzzr9hh7xyfcqx3zoju6</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>The necessities in Digital Design</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>119422</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807350</id>
      <parentid>2807038</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:51:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sequential Circuits */</comment>
      <origin>2807350</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9755" sha1="tb2tvqxygbcenrlfauenp1h8slmz73n" xml:space="preserve">
== ''' Number Systems '''== 

''' Binary Representation '''
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD1.1.A.BinaryNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD1.2.A.HexaNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Other Codes ([[Media:DD1.3A.Code.20250329.pdf|A.pdf]])

''' Binary Arithmetic '''
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.4.A.BinaryArith.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* BCD Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.5.A.BCDArith.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])

''' C Program Examples '''
* Binary Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD1.6.A.BNumInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Binary Addition in C programs ([[Media:DD1.7.A.BArithInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Floating Point Numbers '''

* Floating Point Representations  ([[Media:CDesign.5.A.FPoint.20140121.pdf|5A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
:: See [http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~aboulham/F1214/Session%206Arithm/Floating_Point_Numbers.pdf Floating Point Overview]
:: See [http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~patrice/210-2006/210%20LN04_2.pdf Offset Binary Overview]
:: See [http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an96/an9657.pdf Offset Binary &amp; Sin / Cosine]
:: See [http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/hp/staff/dmb/courses/dig2/4_Analog.pdf Offset Binary &amp; ADC / DAC]
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Interfacing Digital and Analog Signals '''
* Sampling and Quantization   ([[Media:DD1.10.A.SampleQuant.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Digital-to-Analog Conversion  ([[Media:DD1.8.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Analog-to-Digital Conversion ([[Media:DD1.9.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Combinational Circuits'''==

''' Design '''
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD2.A1.BAlgebra.20250503.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* Truth Tables ([[Media:DD2.A2.TTable.20250424.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* K-Map ([[Media:DD2.A3.KMap.20250424.pdf|A3.pdf]])
* Design Examples ([[Media:DD2.A4.CombEx.20250414.pdf|A4.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Components '''
* Decoder ([[Media:DD2.B.1.Decoder.20130928.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Encoder ([[Media:DD2.B.2.Encoder.20130917.pdf|B2.pdf]])
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DD2.B.3.Multiplexer.20130928.pdf|B3.pdf]])
* Adder ([[Media:DD2.B.4..Adder.20131007.pdf|B4.pdf]], [[Media:Fa.sch.20131002.pdf|fa.sch.pdf]], [[Media:Adder4.sch.20131002.pdf|adder4.sch.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Design Metric '''
* Noise Margin ([[Media:DD2.C1.NoiseMargin.20250415.pdf|C1.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Sequential Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Types of Flip-Flops ([[Media:CDesign.1.A.FF.20130412.pdf |1A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Latches and Flipflops ([[Media:DD3.A.1.LatchFF.20160308.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* State Transition Table ([[Media:DD3.A.2.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD3.A.3.FSM.20131030.pdf|A3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* The Classic FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131126.pdf|A7.pdf]])
* The Modern FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131204.2.pdf|A8.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD3.B.1.LatchFF.20131008.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Registers ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Register.20150326.pdf|B2.pdf]], [[Media:Register.20131118.pdf|register.pdf]])
* Counters ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Counter.20150420.pdf|B3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Timing Analysis '''=== 
* Metastability ([[Media:DD3.A.4.MetaState.20131030.pdf|A4.pdf]])
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD3.A5.FFTiming.20260428.pdf|A5.pdf]])
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD3.A.5.ForbiddenState.20131030.pdf|A6.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* FF Min Max Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.MinMaxTiming.20131121.pdf |pdf]])
* FF Clock Skew Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.ClockSkew.20131121.pdf |pdf]])

* Synchronizer ([[Media:CArch.Synchronizer.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
* Resolution Time Analysis  ([[Media:CArch.Resolution.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Finite State Machine'''==

* FSM State Encoding 
* FSM Types : Mealy and Moore Machines
* FSM Example ([[Media:CArch.2.A.FSMExample.20141018.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Array  Devices''' ==

''' Memory Arrays '''
* RAM 
** RAM Structure ([[Media:DD4.A.1.RAM.20131111.pdf|A.pdf]])
** RAM Timing ([[Media:DD4.B.1.RAMTiming.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
** FPGA RAM ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGARAM.20160513.pdf|C.pdf]])

* ROM
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Logic Arrays '''
* PLA 
* PAL
* PLD
* FPGA
** FPGA Structure
** FPGA Configuration ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGAConf.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/sramop.pdf  Synchronous SRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Technical%20Note/DRAM/tn4529.pdf Asynchronous SRAM Timing]&lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/dramop.pdf DRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;

[http://www.ece.unm.edu/~jimp/415/slides/fpga_arch1.pdf FPGA Architectures] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.engr.siu.edu/~haibo/ece428/notes/ece428_fpgaarch.pdf CPLD &amp; FPGA] &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== ''' RTL Design Techniques''' ==
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Design Methodology '''
&lt;/br&gt;


''' Synthesis '''
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Logic Families and IOs''' ==
* BJT Based 
:: DTL (Diode-Transistor Logic)
:: TTL (Transistor-Transistor Logic)
:: ECL (Emitter-Coupled Logic)
 
* MOS Based
:: CMOS (Complementary MOS)
:: Pseudo-nMOS 
:: Transmission Gate
:: BiCMOS (Bipolr + CMOS)
 
* Dynamic CMOS 
:: Domino
:: Clocked-CMOS (C&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;MOS)
&lt;/br&gt; 

* Modern I/O Standards
:: TTL and LVTTL (Low Voltage TTL)
:: CMOS and LVCMOS (Low Voltage CMOS)
:: SSTL (Stub Series Terminated Logic)
:: HSTL (High Speed Tranceiver Logic)
:: LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signaling) 

&lt;/br&gt;

* Wikipedia Pages for Logic Families ([[Media:Logic Families.wiki.20140812.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Organization]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

== '''Old''' ==
'''Until 2011.12''' 
'''Chapter 1. Binary Numbers'''
* 1.1 Binary Numbers([[Media:BinaryNumbers.1.A.pdf|pdf]])

''' Minterm, Maxterm, HW '''
* 1.1 Lecture01([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110922.pdf|pdf]])

''' Overflow HW '''
* Overflow Table([[Media:Overflow table.20110924.pdf|pdf]])

''' K-Map '''
* K-Map([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110926.pdf|pdf]])

''' Binary Adder '''
* Binary Adder (C, S) ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110929.pdf|pdf]])
* Overflow detection circuit (V) ([[Media:HW Overflow20111001.pdf|pdf]])

''' BCD to Ex3 Code Coversion, Dont' Care '''
* BCD to Ex3 Code Conversion ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111006.pdf|pdf]])

''' Prime Implicant, Dont' Care '''
* Prime Implicant, Don't Care ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111010.pdf|pdf]])
* HW 3.6 - explain the method of combining 0's and X's

''' Multiplexer / Demultiplexer '''
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111024.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (TBD)

''' Flip Flop / Latch '''
* FF &amp; Latch ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* FF &amp; Latch HW ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* Gated D Latch &amp; Master-Slave D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111031.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Forbidden state and Indeterminate state) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111102.pdf|pdf]]) (note in #2, S' R' instead of S R)
* Classical Edge Triggered D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111112.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (addition in SW and HW) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111112.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM1  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM1.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM2  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM2.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* HW (FSM Waveforms) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111118.pdf|pdf]]) 
 
 
''' Counter '''
* Sychronous Counter ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111121.pdf|pdf]])
* Ripple Counter, Multiplexer, Tri-state buffer([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111124.pdf|pdf]])
* Register ([[Media:DigitalDesign.register.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Timing ([[Media:DigitalDesign.timing.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Multiplexer, Shift Register) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Universal Shift Register, Memory Cell ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111206.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Bit Serial Adder) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111206.pdf|pdf]])
 
 
''' Memory '''
* Memory ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111208.pdf|pdf]])

''' Comparator, Multiplier '''
* Comparator, Multiplier ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])
 
 
'''Multiplexer based design method '''
* Multiplexer Design Method ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])


midterm result ([[Media:MidReult.20111027.pdf|pdf]])

 
* Edge Triggered Flip Flop ([[Media:EdgeTrigFF.20111224.pdf|pdf]])
* FF Timing ([[Media:FFTiming.20111203.pdf|pdf]])


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;
'''Until 2013.07''' 

''' Number Systems '''
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.A.BinNum.20130309.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.B.HexaNum.20130417.pdf|B.pdf]])
* Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD.1.C.CNum.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
* Codes ([[Media:DD.1.D.Coding.20130319.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt;
* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Combinational Circuits '''
* Truth Tables and Boolean Functions ([[Media:DD.2.A.TTable.20130325.pdf|2A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* K-Map ([[Media:DD.2.A.KMap.20130329.pdf|2B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Addition in C ([[Media:DD.2.C.BAinC.20130329.pdf|2.C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD.2.D.BAri.2013.pdf|2.D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD.2.E.BAlgebra.20130419.pdf|2.E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Sequential Circuits '''
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD.3.A.LatchFF.20130413.pdf|3A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD.3.B.FSM.20130417.pdf|3B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD.3.C.FState.20130413.pdf|3C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD.3.D.Timing.20130413.pdf|3D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Metastability ([[Media:DD.3.E.MetaState.20130628.pdf|3E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;

[[Category:Digital Circuit Design]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>tb2tvqxygbcenrlfauenp1h8slmz73n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807351</id>
      <parentid>2807350</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:51:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Combinational Circuits */</comment>
      <origin>2807351</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9779" sha1="0pvh18th2zv6e18ua2jo8c7imnerrya" xml:space="preserve">
== ''' Number Systems '''== 

''' Binary Representation '''
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD1.1.A.BinaryNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD1.2.A.HexaNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Other Codes ([[Media:DD1.3A.Code.20250329.pdf|A.pdf]])

''' Binary Arithmetic '''
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.4.A.BinaryArith.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* BCD Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.5.A.BCDArith.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])

''' C Program Examples '''
* Binary Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD1.6.A.BNumInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Binary Addition in C programs ([[Media:DD1.7.A.BArithInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Floating Point Numbers '''

* Floating Point Representations  ([[Media:CDesign.5.A.FPoint.20140121.pdf|5A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
:: See [http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~aboulham/F1214/Session%206Arithm/Floating_Point_Numbers.pdf Floating Point Overview]
:: See [http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~patrice/210-2006/210%20LN04_2.pdf Offset Binary Overview]
:: See [http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an96/an9657.pdf Offset Binary &amp; Sin / Cosine]
:: See [http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/hp/staff/dmb/courses/dig2/4_Analog.pdf Offset Binary &amp; ADC / DAC]
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Interfacing Digital and Analog Signals '''
* Sampling and Quantization   ([[Media:DD1.10.A.SampleQuant.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Digital-to-Analog Conversion  ([[Media:DD1.8.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Analog-to-Digital Conversion ([[Media:DD1.9.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Combinational Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD2.A1.BAlgebra.20250503.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* Truth Tables ([[Media:DD2.A2.TTable.20250424.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* K-Map ([[Media:DD2.A3.KMap.20250424.pdf|A3.pdf]])
* Design Examples ([[Media:DD2.A4.CombEx.20250414.pdf|A4.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Decoder ([[Media:DD2.B.1.Decoder.20130928.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Encoder ([[Media:DD2.B.2.Encoder.20130917.pdf|B2.pdf]])
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DD2.B.3.Multiplexer.20130928.pdf|B3.pdf]])
* Adder ([[Media:DD2.B.4..Adder.20131007.pdf|B4.pdf]], [[Media:Fa.sch.20131002.pdf|fa.sch.pdf]], [[Media:Adder4.sch.20131002.pdf|adder4.sch.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Design Metric '''=== 
* Noise Margin ([[Media:DD2.C1.NoiseMargin.20250415.pdf|C1.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Sequential Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Types of Flip-Flops ([[Media:CDesign.1.A.FF.20130412.pdf |1A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Latches and Flipflops ([[Media:DD3.A.1.LatchFF.20160308.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* State Transition Table ([[Media:DD3.A.2.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD3.A.3.FSM.20131030.pdf|A3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* The Classic FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131126.pdf|A7.pdf]])
* The Modern FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131204.2.pdf|A8.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD3.B.1.LatchFF.20131008.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Registers ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Register.20150326.pdf|B2.pdf]], [[Media:Register.20131118.pdf|register.pdf]])
* Counters ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Counter.20150420.pdf|B3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Timing Analysis '''=== 
* Metastability ([[Media:DD3.A.4.MetaState.20131030.pdf|A4.pdf]])
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD3.A5.FFTiming.20260428.pdf|A5.pdf]])
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD3.A.5.ForbiddenState.20131030.pdf|A6.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* FF Min Max Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.MinMaxTiming.20131121.pdf |pdf]])
* FF Clock Skew Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.ClockSkew.20131121.pdf |pdf]])

* Synchronizer ([[Media:CArch.Synchronizer.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
* Resolution Time Analysis  ([[Media:CArch.Resolution.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Finite State Machine'''==

* FSM State Encoding 
* FSM Types : Mealy and Moore Machines
* FSM Example ([[Media:CArch.2.A.FSMExample.20141018.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Array  Devices''' ==

''' Memory Arrays '''
* RAM 
** RAM Structure ([[Media:DD4.A.1.RAM.20131111.pdf|A.pdf]])
** RAM Timing ([[Media:DD4.B.1.RAMTiming.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
** FPGA RAM ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGARAM.20160513.pdf|C.pdf]])

* ROM
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Logic Arrays '''
* PLA 
* PAL
* PLD
* FPGA
** FPGA Structure
** FPGA Configuration ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGAConf.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/sramop.pdf  Synchronous SRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Technical%20Note/DRAM/tn4529.pdf Asynchronous SRAM Timing]&lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/dramop.pdf DRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;

[http://www.ece.unm.edu/~jimp/415/slides/fpga_arch1.pdf FPGA Architectures] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.engr.siu.edu/~haibo/ece428/notes/ece428_fpgaarch.pdf CPLD &amp; FPGA] &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== ''' RTL Design Techniques''' ==
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Design Methodology '''
&lt;/br&gt;


''' Synthesis '''
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Logic Families and IOs''' ==
* BJT Based 
:: DTL (Diode-Transistor Logic)
:: TTL (Transistor-Transistor Logic)
:: ECL (Emitter-Coupled Logic)
 
* MOS Based
:: CMOS (Complementary MOS)
:: Pseudo-nMOS 
:: Transmission Gate
:: BiCMOS (Bipolr + CMOS)
 
* Dynamic CMOS 
:: Domino
:: Clocked-CMOS (C&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;MOS)
&lt;/br&gt; 

* Modern I/O Standards
:: TTL and LVTTL (Low Voltage TTL)
:: CMOS and LVCMOS (Low Voltage CMOS)
:: SSTL (Stub Series Terminated Logic)
:: HSTL (High Speed Tranceiver Logic)
:: LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signaling) 

&lt;/br&gt;

* Wikipedia Pages for Logic Families ([[Media:Logic Families.wiki.20140812.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Organization]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

== '''Old''' ==
'''Until 2011.12''' 
'''Chapter 1. Binary Numbers'''
* 1.1 Binary Numbers([[Media:BinaryNumbers.1.A.pdf|pdf]])

''' Minterm, Maxterm, HW '''
* 1.1 Lecture01([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110922.pdf|pdf]])

''' Overflow HW '''
* Overflow Table([[Media:Overflow table.20110924.pdf|pdf]])

''' K-Map '''
* K-Map([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110926.pdf|pdf]])

''' Binary Adder '''
* Binary Adder (C, S) ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110929.pdf|pdf]])
* Overflow detection circuit (V) ([[Media:HW Overflow20111001.pdf|pdf]])

''' BCD to Ex3 Code Coversion, Dont' Care '''
* BCD to Ex3 Code Conversion ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111006.pdf|pdf]])

''' Prime Implicant, Dont' Care '''
* Prime Implicant, Don't Care ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111010.pdf|pdf]])
* HW 3.6 - explain the method of combining 0's and X's

''' Multiplexer / Demultiplexer '''
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111024.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (TBD)

''' Flip Flop / Latch '''
* FF &amp; Latch ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* FF &amp; Latch HW ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* Gated D Latch &amp; Master-Slave D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111031.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Forbidden state and Indeterminate state) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111102.pdf|pdf]]) (note in #2, S' R' instead of S R)
* Classical Edge Triggered D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111112.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (addition in SW and HW) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111112.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM1  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM1.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM2  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM2.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* HW (FSM Waveforms) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111118.pdf|pdf]]) 
 
 
''' Counter '''
* Sychronous Counter ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111121.pdf|pdf]])
* Ripple Counter, Multiplexer, Tri-state buffer([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111124.pdf|pdf]])
* Register ([[Media:DigitalDesign.register.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Timing ([[Media:DigitalDesign.timing.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Multiplexer, Shift Register) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Universal Shift Register, Memory Cell ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111206.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Bit Serial Adder) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111206.pdf|pdf]])
 
 
''' Memory '''
* Memory ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111208.pdf|pdf]])

''' Comparator, Multiplier '''
* Comparator, Multiplier ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])
 
 
'''Multiplexer based design method '''
* Multiplexer Design Method ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])


midterm result ([[Media:MidReult.20111027.pdf|pdf]])

 
* Edge Triggered Flip Flop ([[Media:EdgeTrigFF.20111224.pdf|pdf]])
* FF Timing ([[Media:FFTiming.20111203.pdf|pdf]])


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;
'''Until 2013.07''' 

''' Number Systems '''
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.A.BinNum.20130309.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.B.HexaNum.20130417.pdf|B.pdf]])
* Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD.1.C.CNum.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
* Codes ([[Media:DD.1.D.Coding.20130319.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt;
* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Combinational Circuits '''
* Truth Tables and Boolean Functions ([[Media:DD.2.A.TTable.20130325.pdf|2A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* K-Map ([[Media:DD.2.A.KMap.20130329.pdf|2B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Addition in C ([[Media:DD.2.C.BAinC.20130329.pdf|2.C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD.2.D.BAri.2013.pdf|2.D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD.2.E.BAlgebra.20130419.pdf|2.E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Sequential Circuits '''
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD.3.A.LatchFF.20130413.pdf|3A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD.3.B.FSM.20130417.pdf|3B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD.3.C.FState.20130413.pdf|3C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD.3.D.Timing.20130413.pdf|3D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Metastability ([[Media:DD.3.E.MetaState.20130628.pdf|3E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;

[[Category:Digital Circuit Design]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>0pvh18th2zv6e18ua2jo8c7imnerrya</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807352</id>
      <parentid>2807351</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:52:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/*  Number Systems  */</comment>
      <origin>2807352</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9819" sha1="csgshe4w2wqg2ms9nqonpzou8e9x39f" xml:space="preserve">
== ''' Number Systems '''== 

=== ''' Binary Representation '''=== 
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD1.1.A.BinaryNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD1.2.A.HexaNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Other Codes ([[Media:DD1.3A.Code.20250329.pdf|A.pdf]])

=== ''' Binary Arithmetic '''=== 
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.4.A.BinaryArith.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* BCD Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.5.A.BCDArith.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])

=== ''' C Program Examples '''=== 
* Binary Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD1.6.A.BNumInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Binary Addition in C programs ([[Media:DD1.7.A.BArithInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Floating Point Numbers '''=== 

* Floating Point Representations  ([[Media:CDesign.5.A.FPoint.20140121.pdf|5A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
:: See [http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~aboulham/F1214/Session%206Arithm/Floating_Point_Numbers.pdf Floating Point Overview]
:: See [http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~patrice/210-2006/210%20LN04_2.pdf Offset Binary Overview]
:: See [http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an96/an9657.pdf Offset Binary &amp; Sin / Cosine]
:: See [http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/hp/staff/dmb/courses/dig2/4_Analog.pdf Offset Binary &amp; ADC / DAC]
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Interfacing Digital and Analog Signals '''=== 
* Sampling and Quantization   ([[Media:DD1.10.A.SampleQuant.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Digital-to-Analog Conversion  ([[Media:DD1.8.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Analog-to-Digital Conversion ([[Media:DD1.9.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Combinational Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD2.A1.BAlgebra.20250503.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* Truth Tables ([[Media:DD2.A2.TTable.20250424.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* K-Map ([[Media:DD2.A3.KMap.20250424.pdf|A3.pdf]])
* Design Examples ([[Media:DD2.A4.CombEx.20250414.pdf|A4.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Decoder ([[Media:DD2.B.1.Decoder.20130928.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Encoder ([[Media:DD2.B.2.Encoder.20130917.pdf|B2.pdf]])
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DD2.B.3.Multiplexer.20130928.pdf|B3.pdf]])
* Adder ([[Media:DD2.B.4..Adder.20131007.pdf|B4.pdf]], [[Media:Fa.sch.20131002.pdf|fa.sch.pdf]], [[Media:Adder4.sch.20131002.pdf|adder4.sch.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Design Metric '''=== 
* Noise Margin ([[Media:DD2.C1.NoiseMargin.20250415.pdf|C1.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Sequential Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Types of Flip-Flops ([[Media:CDesign.1.A.FF.20130412.pdf |1A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Latches and Flipflops ([[Media:DD3.A.1.LatchFF.20160308.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* State Transition Table ([[Media:DD3.A.2.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD3.A.3.FSM.20131030.pdf|A3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* The Classic FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131126.pdf|A7.pdf]])
* The Modern FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131204.2.pdf|A8.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD3.B.1.LatchFF.20131008.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Registers ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Register.20150326.pdf|B2.pdf]], [[Media:Register.20131118.pdf|register.pdf]])
* Counters ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Counter.20150420.pdf|B3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Timing Analysis '''=== 
* Metastability ([[Media:DD3.A.4.MetaState.20131030.pdf|A4.pdf]])
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD3.A5.FFTiming.20260428.pdf|A5.pdf]])
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD3.A.5.ForbiddenState.20131030.pdf|A6.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* FF Min Max Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.MinMaxTiming.20131121.pdf |pdf]])
* FF Clock Skew Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.ClockSkew.20131121.pdf |pdf]])

* Synchronizer ([[Media:CArch.Synchronizer.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
* Resolution Time Analysis  ([[Media:CArch.Resolution.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Finite State Machine'''==

* FSM State Encoding 
* FSM Types : Mealy and Moore Machines
* FSM Example ([[Media:CArch.2.A.FSMExample.20141018.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Array  Devices''' ==

''' Memory Arrays '''
* RAM 
** RAM Structure ([[Media:DD4.A.1.RAM.20131111.pdf|A.pdf]])
** RAM Timing ([[Media:DD4.B.1.RAMTiming.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
** FPGA RAM ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGARAM.20160513.pdf|C.pdf]])

* ROM
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Logic Arrays '''
* PLA 
* PAL
* PLD
* FPGA
** FPGA Structure
** FPGA Configuration ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGAConf.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/sramop.pdf  Synchronous SRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Technical%20Note/DRAM/tn4529.pdf Asynchronous SRAM Timing]&lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/dramop.pdf DRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;

[http://www.ece.unm.edu/~jimp/415/slides/fpga_arch1.pdf FPGA Architectures] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.engr.siu.edu/~haibo/ece428/notes/ece428_fpgaarch.pdf CPLD &amp; FPGA] &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== ''' RTL Design Techniques''' ==
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Design Methodology '''
&lt;/br&gt;


''' Synthesis '''
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Logic Families and IOs''' ==
* BJT Based 
:: DTL (Diode-Transistor Logic)
:: TTL (Transistor-Transistor Logic)
:: ECL (Emitter-Coupled Logic)
 
* MOS Based
:: CMOS (Complementary MOS)
:: Pseudo-nMOS 
:: Transmission Gate
:: BiCMOS (Bipolr + CMOS)
 
* Dynamic CMOS 
:: Domino
:: Clocked-CMOS (C&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;MOS)
&lt;/br&gt; 

* Modern I/O Standards
:: TTL and LVTTL (Low Voltage TTL)
:: CMOS and LVCMOS (Low Voltage CMOS)
:: SSTL (Stub Series Terminated Logic)
:: HSTL (High Speed Tranceiver Logic)
:: LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signaling) 

&lt;/br&gt;

* Wikipedia Pages for Logic Families ([[Media:Logic Families.wiki.20140812.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Organization]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

== '''Old''' ==
'''Until 2011.12''' 
'''Chapter 1. Binary Numbers'''
* 1.1 Binary Numbers([[Media:BinaryNumbers.1.A.pdf|pdf]])

''' Minterm, Maxterm, HW '''
* 1.1 Lecture01([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110922.pdf|pdf]])

''' Overflow HW '''
* Overflow Table([[Media:Overflow table.20110924.pdf|pdf]])

''' K-Map '''
* K-Map([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110926.pdf|pdf]])

''' Binary Adder '''
* Binary Adder (C, S) ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110929.pdf|pdf]])
* Overflow detection circuit (V) ([[Media:HW Overflow20111001.pdf|pdf]])

''' BCD to Ex3 Code Coversion, Dont' Care '''
* BCD to Ex3 Code Conversion ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111006.pdf|pdf]])

''' Prime Implicant, Dont' Care '''
* Prime Implicant, Don't Care ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111010.pdf|pdf]])
* HW 3.6 - explain the method of combining 0's and X's

''' Multiplexer / Demultiplexer '''
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111024.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (TBD)

''' Flip Flop / Latch '''
* FF &amp; Latch ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* FF &amp; Latch HW ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* Gated D Latch &amp; Master-Slave D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111031.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Forbidden state and Indeterminate state) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111102.pdf|pdf]]) (note in #2, S' R' instead of S R)
* Classical Edge Triggered D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111112.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (addition in SW and HW) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111112.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM1  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM1.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM2  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM2.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* HW (FSM Waveforms) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111118.pdf|pdf]]) 
 
 
''' Counter '''
* Sychronous Counter ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111121.pdf|pdf]])
* Ripple Counter, Multiplexer, Tri-state buffer([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111124.pdf|pdf]])
* Register ([[Media:DigitalDesign.register.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Timing ([[Media:DigitalDesign.timing.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Multiplexer, Shift Register) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Universal Shift Register, Memory Cell ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111206.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Bit Serial Adder) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111206.pdf|pdf]])
 
 
''' Memory '''
* Memory ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111208.pdf|pdf]])

''' Comparator, Multiplier '''
* Comparator, Multiplier ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])
 
 
'''Multiplexer based design method '''
* Multiplexer Design Method ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])


midterm result ([[Media:MidReult.20111027.pdf|pdf]])

 
* Edge Triggered Flip Flop ([[Media:EdgeTrigFF.20111224.pdf|pdf]])
* FF Timing ([[Media:FFTiming.20111203.pdf|pdf]])


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;
'''Until 2013.07''' 

''' Number Systems '''
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.A.BinNum.20130309.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.B.HexaNum.20130417.pdf|B.pdf]])
* Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD.1.C.CNum.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
* Codes ([[Media:DD.1.D.Coding.20130319.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt;
* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Combinational Circuits '''
* Truth Tables and Boolean Functions ([[Media:DD.2.A.TTable.20130325.pdf|2A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* K-Map ([[Media:DD.2.A.KMap.20130329.pdf|2B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Addition in C ([[Media:DD.2.C.BAinC.20130329.pdf|2.C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD.2.D.BAri.2013.pdf|2.D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD.2.E.BAlgebra.20130419.pdf|2.E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Sequential Circuits '''
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD.3.A.LatchFF.20130413.pdf|3A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD.3.B.FSM.20130417.pdf|3B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD.3.C.FState.20130413.pdf|3C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD.3.D.Timing.20130413.pdf|3D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Metastability ([[Media:DD.3.E.MetaState.20130628.pdf|3E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;

[[Category:Digital Circuit Design]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>csgshe4w2wqg2ms9nqonpzou8e9x39f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807353</id>
      <parentid>2807352</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:52:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Array  Devices */</comment>
      <origin>2807353</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9835" sha1="pddhdlxlst8t0z5e7pcqr19p3mrezgq" xml:space="preserve">
== ''' Number Systems '''== 

=== ''' Binary Representation '''=== 
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD1.1.A.BinaryNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD1.2.A.HexaNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Other Codes ([[Media:DD1.3A.Code.20250329.pdf|A.pdf]])

=== ''' Binary Arithmetic '''=== 
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.4.A.BinaryArith.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* BCD Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.5.A.BCDArith.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])

=== ''' C Program Examples '''=== 
* Binary Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD1.6.A.BNumInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Binary Addition in C programs ([[Media:DD1.7.A.BArithInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Floating Point Numbers '''=== 

* Floating Point Representations  ([[Media:CDesign.5.A.FPoint.20140121.pdf|5A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
:: See [http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~aboulham/F1214/Session%206Arithm/Floating_Point_Numbers.pdf Floating Point Overview]
:: See [http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~patrice/210-2006/210%20LN04_2.pdf Offset Binary Overview]
:: See [http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an96/an9657.pdf Offset Binary &amp; Sin / Cosine]
:: See [http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/hp/staff/dmb/courses/dig2/4_Analog.pdf Offset Binary &amp; ADC / DAC]
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Interfacing Digital and Analog Signals '''=== 
* Sampling and Quantization   ([[Media:DD1.10.A.SampleQuant.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Digital-to-Analog Conversion  ([[Media:DD1.8.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Analog-to-Digital Conversion ([[Media:DD1.9.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Combinational Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD2.A1.BAlgebra.20250503.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* Truth Tables ([[Media:DD2.A2.TTable.20250424.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* K-Map ([[Media:DD2.A3.KMap.20250424.pdf|A3.pdf]])
* Design Examples ([[Media:DD2.A4.CombEx.20250414.pdf|A4.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Decoder ([[Media:DD2.B.1.Decoder.20130928.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Encoder ([[Media:DD2.B.2.Encoder.20130917.pdf|B2.pdf]])
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DD2.B.3.Multiplexer.20130928.pdf|B3.pdf]])
* Adder ([[Media:DD2.B.4..Adder.20131007.pdf|B4.pdf]], [[Media:Fa.sch.20131002.pdf|fa.sch.pdf]], [[Media:Adder4.sch.20131002.pdf|adder4.sch.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Design Metric '''=== 
* Noise Margin ([[Media:DD2.C1.NoiseMargin.20250415.pdf|C1.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Sequential Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Types of Flip-Flops ([[Media:CDesign.1.A.FF.20130412.pdf |1A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Latches and Flipflops ([[Media:DD3.A.1.LatchFF.20160308.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* State Transition Table ([[Media:DD3.A.2.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD3.A.3.FSM.20131030.pdf|A3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* The Classic FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131126.pdf|A7.pdf]])
* The Modern FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131204.2.pdf|A8.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD3.B.1.LatchFF.20131008.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Registers ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Register.20150326.pdf|B2.pdf]], [[Media:Register.20131118.pdf|register.pdf]])
* Counters ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Counter.20150420.pdf|B3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Timing Analysis '''=== 
* Metastability ([[Media:DD3.A.4.MetaState.20131030.pdf|A4.pdf]])
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD3.A5.FFTiming.20260428.pdf|A5.pdf]])
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD3.A.5.ForbiddenState.20131030.pdf|A6.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* FF Min Max Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.MinMaxTiming.20131121.pdf |pdf]])
* FF Clock Skew Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.ClockSkew.20131121.pdf |pdf]])

* Synchronizer ([[Media:CArch.Synchronizer.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
* Resolution Time Analysis  ([[Media:CArch.Resolution.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Finite State Machine'''==

* FSM State Encoding 
* FSM Types : Mealy and Moore Machines
* FSM Example ([[Media:CArch.2.A.FSMExample.20141018.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Array  Devices''' ==

=== ''' Memory Arrays '''=== 
* RAM 
** RAM Structure ([[Media:DD4.A.1.RAM.20131111.pdf|A.pdf]])
** RAM Timing ([[Media:DD4.B.1.RAMTiming.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
** FPGA RAM ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGARAM.20160513.pdf|C.pdf]])

* ROM
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Logic Arrays '''=== 
* PLA 
* PAL
* PLD
* FPGA
** FPGA Structure
** FPGA Configuration ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGAConf.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/sramop.pdf  Synchronous SRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Technical%20Note/DRAM/tn4529.pdf Asynchronous SRAM Timing]&lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/dramop.pdf DRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;

[http://www.ece.unm.edu/~jimp/415/slides/fpga_arch1.pdf FPGA Architectures] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.engr.siu.edu/~haibo/ece428/notes/ece428_fpgaarch.pdf CPLD &amp; FPGA] &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== ''' RTL Design Techniques''' ==
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Design Methodology '''
&lt;/br&gt;


''' Synthesis '''
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Logic Families and IOs''' ==
* BJT Based 
:: DTL (Diode-Transistor Logic)
:: TTL (Transistor-Transistor Logic)
:: ECL (Emitter-Coupled Logic)
 
* MOS Based
:: CMOS (Complementary MOS)
:: Pseudo-nMOS 
:: Transmission Gate
:: BiCMOS (Bipolr + CMOS)
 
* Dynamic CMOS 
:: Domino
:: Clocked-CMOS (C&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;MOS)
&lt;/br&gt; 

* Modern I/O Standards
:: TTL and LVTTL (Low Voltage TTL)
:: CMOS and LVCMOS (Low Voltage CMOS)
:: SSTL (Stub Series Terminated Logic)
:: HSTL (High Speed Tranceiver Logic)
:: LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signaling) 

&lt;/br&gt;

* Wikipedia Pages for Logic Families ([[Media:Logic Families.wiki.20140812.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Organization]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

== '''Old''' ==
'''Until 2011.12''' 
'''Chapter 1. Binary Numbers'''
* 1.1 Binary Numbers([[Media:BinaryNumbers.1.A.pdf|pdf]])

''' Minterm, Maxterm, HW '''
* 1.1 Lecture01([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110922.pdf|pdf]])

''' Overflow HW '''
* Overflow Table([[Media:Overflow table.20110924.pdf|pdf]])

''' K-Map '''
* K-Map([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110926.pdf|pdf]])

''' Binary Adder '''
* Binary Adder (C, S) ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110929.pdf|pdf]])
* Overflow detection circuit (V) ([[Media:HW Overflow20111001.pdf|pdf]])

''' BCD to Ex3 Code Coversion, Dont' Care '''
* BCD to Ex3 Code Conversion ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111006.pdf|pdf]])

''' Prime Implicant, Dont' Care '''
* Prime Implicant, Don't Care ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111010.pdf|pdf]])
* HW 3.6 - explain the method of combining 0's and X's

''' Multiplexer / Demultiplexer '''
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111024.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (TBD)

''' Flip Flop / Latch '''
* FF &amp; Latch ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* FF &amp; Latch HW ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* Gated D Latch &amp; Master-Slave D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111031.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Forbidden state and Indeterminate state) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111102.pdf|pdf]]) (note in #2, S' R' instead of S R)
* Classical Edge Triggered D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111112.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (addition in SW and HW) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111112.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM1  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM1.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM2  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM2.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* HW (FSM Waveforms) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111118.pdf|pdf]]) 
 
 
''' Counter '''
* Sychronous Counter ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111121.pdf|pdf]])
* Ripple Counter, Multiplexer, Tri-state buffer([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111124.pdf|pdf]])
* Register ([[Media:DigitalDesign.register.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Timing ([[Media:DigitalDesign.timing.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Multiplexer, Shift Register) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Universal Shift Register, Memory Cell ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111206.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Bit Serial Adder) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111206.pdf|pdf]])
 
 
''' Memory '''
* Memory ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111208.pdf|pdf]])

''' Comparator, Multiplier '''
* Comparator, Multiplier ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])
 
 
'''Multiplexer based design method '''
* Multiplexer Design Method ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])


midterm result ([[Media:MidReult.20111027.pdf|pdf]])

 
* Edge Triggered Flip Flop ([[Media:EdgeTrigFF.20111224.pdf|pdf]])
* FF Timing ([[Media:FFTiming.20111203.pdf|pdf]])


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;
'''Until 2013.07''' 

''' Number Systems '''
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.A.BinNum.20130309.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.B.HexaNum.20130417.pdf|B.pdf]])
* Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD.1.C.CNum.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
* Codes ([[Media:DD.1.D.Coding.20130319.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt;
* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Combinational Circuits '''
* Truth Tables and Boolean Functions ([[Media:DD.2.A.TTable.20130325.pdf|2A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* K-Map ([[Media:DD.2.A.KMap.20130329.pdf|2B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Addition in C ([[Media:DD.2.C.BAinC.20130329.pdf|2.C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD.2.D.BAri.2013.pdf|2.D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD.2.E.BAlgebra.20130419.pdf|2.E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Sequential Circuits '''
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD.3.A.LatchFF.20130413.pdf|3A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD.3.B.FSM.20130417.pdf|3B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD.3.C.FState.20130413.pdf|3C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD.3.D.Timing.20130413.pdf|3D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Metastability ([[Media:DD.3.E.MetaState.20130628.pdf|3E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;

[[Category:Digital Circuit Design]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>pddhdlxlst8t0z5e7pcqr19p3mrezgq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807354</id>
      <parentid>2807353</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:54:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/*  Timing Analysis  */</comment>
      <origin>2807354</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9835" sha1="hgme8pe3bgftq13ud52119z12f3ah10" xml:space="preserve">
== ''' Number Systems '''== 

=== ''' Binary Representation '''=== 
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD1.1.A.BinaryNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD1.2.A.HexaNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Other Codes ([[Media:DD1.3A.Code.20250329.pdf|A.pdf]])

=== ''' Binary Arithmetic '''=== 
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.4.A.BinaryArith.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* BCD Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.5.A.BCDArith.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])

=== ''' C Program Examples '''=== 
* Binary Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD1.6.A.BNumInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Binary Addition in C programs ([[Media:DD1.7.A.BArithInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Floating Point Numbers '''=== 

* Floating Point Representations  ([[Media:CDesign.5.A.FPoint.20140121.pdf|5A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
:: See [http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~aboulham/F1214/Session%206Arithm/Floating_Point_Numbers.pdf Floating Point Overview]
:: See [http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~patrice/210-2006/210%20LN04_2.pdf Offset Binary Overview]
:: See [http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an96/an9657.pdf Offset Binary &amp; Sin / Cosine]
:: See [http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/hp/staff/dmb/courses/dig2/4_Analog.pdf Offset Binary &amp; ADC / DAC]
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Interfacing Digital and Analog Signals '''=== 
* Sampling and Quantization   ([[Media:DD1.10.A.SampleQuant.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Digital-to-Analog Conversion  ([[Media:DD1.8.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Analog-to-Digital Conversion ([[Media:DD1.9.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Combinational Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD2.A1.BAlgebra.20250503.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* Truth Tables ([[Media:DD2.A2.TTable.20250424.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* K-Map ([[Media:DD2.A3.KMap.20250424.pdf|A3.pdf]])
* Design Examples ([[Media:DD2.A4.CombEx.20250414.pdf|A4.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Decoder ([[Media:DD2.B.1.Decoder.20130928.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Encoder ([[Media:DD2.B.2.Encoder.20130917.pdf|B2.pdf]])
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DD2.B.3.Multiplexer.20130928.pdf|B3.pdf]])
* Adder ([[Media:DD2.B.4..Adder.20131007.pdf|B4.pdf]], [[Media:Fa.sch.20131002.pdf|fa.sch.pdf]], [[Media:Adder4.sch.20131002.pdf|adder4.sch.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Design Metric '''=== 
* Noise Margin ([[Media:DD2.C1.NoiseMargin.20250415.pdf|C1.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Sequential Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Types of Flip-Flops ([[Media:CDesign.1.A.FF.20130412.pdf |1A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Latches and Flipflops ([[Media:DD3.A.1.LatchFF.20160308.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* State Transition Table ([[Media:DD3.A.2.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD3.A.3.FSM.20131030.pdf|A3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* The Classic FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131126.pdf|A7.pdf]])
* The Modern FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131204.2.pdf|A8.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD3.B.1.LatchFF.20131008.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Registers ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Register.20150326.pdf|B2.pdf]], [[Media:Register.20131118.pdf|register.pdf]])
* Counters ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Counter.20150420.pdf|B3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Timing Analysis '''=== 
* Metastability ([[Media:DD3.A.4.MetaState.20131030.pdf|A4.pdf]])
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD3.A5.FFTiming.20260429.pdf|A5.pdf]])
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD3.A.5.ForbiddenState.20131030.pdf|A6.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* FF Min Max Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.MinMaxTiming.20131121.pdf |pdf]])
* FF Clock Skew Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.ClockSkew.20131121.pdf |pdf]])

* Synchronizer ([[Media:CArch.Synchronizer.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
* Resolution Time Analysis  ([[Media:CArch.Resolution.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Finite State Machine'''==

* FSM State Encoding 
* FSM Types : Mealy and Moore Machines
* FSM Example ([[Media:CArch.2.A.FSMExample.20141018.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Array  Devices''' ==

=== ''' Memory Arrays '''=== 
* RAM 
** RAM Structure ([[Media:DD4.A.1.RAM.20131111.pdf|A.pdf]])
** RAM Timing ([[Media:DD4.B.1.RAMTiming.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
** FPGA RAM ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGARAM.20160513.pdf|C.pdf]])

* ROM
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Logic Arrays '''=== 
* PLA 
* PAL
* PLD
* FPGA
** FPGA Structure
** FPGA Configuration ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGAConf.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/sramop.pdf  Synchronous SRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Technical%20Note/DRAM/tn4529.pdf Asynchronous SRAM Timing]&lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/dramop.pdf DRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;

[http://www.ece.unm.edu/~jimp/415/slides/fpga_arch1.pdf FPGA Architectures] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.engr.siu.edu/~haibo/ece428/notes/ece428_fpgaarch.pdf CPLD &amp; FPGA] &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== ''' RTL Design Techniques''' ==
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Design Methodology '''
&lt;/br&gt;


''' Synthesis '''
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Logic Families and IOs''' ==
* BJT Based 
:: DTL (Diode-Transistor Logic)
:: TTL (Transistor-Transistor Logic)
:: ECL (Emitter-Coupled Logic)
 
* MOS Based
:: CMOS (Complementary MOS)
:: Pseudo-nMOS 
:: Transmission Gate
:: BiCMOS (Bipolr + CMOS)
 
* Dynamic CMOS 
:: Domino
:: Clocked-CMOS (C&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;MOS)
&lt;/br&gt; 

* Modern I/O Standards
:: TTL and LVTTL (Low Voltage TTL)
:: CMOS and LVCMOS (Low Voltage CMOS)
:: SSTL (Stub Series Terminated Logic)
:: HSTL (High Speed Tranceiver Logic)
:: LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signaling) 

&lt;/br&gt;

* Wikipedia Pages for Logic Families ([[Media:Logic Families.wiki.20140812.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Organization]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

== '''Old''' ==
'''Until 2011.12''' 
'''Chapter 1. Binary Numbers'''
* 1.1 Binary Numbers([[Media:BinaryNumbers.1.A.pdf|pdf]])

''' Minterm, Maxterm, HW '''
* 1.1 Lecture01([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110922.pdf|pdf]])

''' Overflow HW '''
* Overflow Table([[Media:Overflow table.20110924.pdf|pdf]])

''' K-Map '''
* K-Map([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110926.pdf|pdf]])

''' Binary Adder '''
* Binary Adder (C, S) ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110929.pdf|pdf]])
* Overflow detection circuit (V) ([[Media:HW Overflow20111001.pdf|pdf]])

''' BCD to Ex3 Code Coversion, Dont' Care '''
* BCD to Ex3 Code Conversion ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111006.pdf|pdf]])

''' Prime Implicant, Dont' Care '''
* Prime Implicant, Don't Care ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111010.pdf|pdf]])
* HW 3.6 - explain the method of combining 0's and X's

''' Multiplexer / Demultiplexer '''
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111024.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (TBD)

''' Flip Flop / Latch '''
* FF &amp; Latch ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* FF &amp; Latch HW ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* Gated D Latch &amp; Master-Slave D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111031.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Forbidden state and Indeterminate state) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111102.pdf|pdf]]) (note in #2, S' R' instead of S R)
* Classical Edge Triggered D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111112.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (addition in SW and HW) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111112.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM1  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM1.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM2  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM2.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* HW (FSM Waveforms) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111118.pdf|pdf]]) 
 
 
''' Counter '''
* Sychronous Counter ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111121.pdf|pdf]])
* Ripple Counter, Multiplexer, Tri-state buffer([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111124.pdf|pdf]])
* Register ([[Media:DigitalDesign.register.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Timing ([[Media:DigitalDesign.timing.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Multiplexer, Shift Register) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Universal Shift Register, Memory Cell ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111206.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Bit Serial Adder) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111206.pdf|pdf]])
 
 
''' Memory '''
* Memory ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111208.pdf|pdf]])

''' Comparator, Multiplier '''
* Comparator, Multiplier ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])
 
 
'''Multiplexer based design method '''
* Multiplexer Design Method ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])


midterm result ([[Media:MidReult.20111027.pdf|pdf]])

 
* Edge Triggered Flip Flop ([[Media:EdgeTrigFF.20111224.pdf|pdf]])
* FF Timing ([[Media:FFTiming.20111203.pdf|pdf]])


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;
'''Until 2013.07''' 

''' Number Systems '''
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.A.BinNum.20130309.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.B.HexaNum.20130417.pdf|B.pdf]])
* Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD.1.C.CNum.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
* Codes ([[Media:DD.1.D.Coding.20130319.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt;
* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Combinational Circuits '''
* Truth Tables and Boolean Functions ([[Media:DD.2.A.TTable.20130325.pdf|2A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* K-Map ([[Media:DD.2.A.KMap.20130329.pdf|2B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Addition in C ([[Media:DD.2.C.BAinC.20130329.pdf|2.C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD.2.D.BAri.2013.pdf|2.D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD.2.E.BAlgebra.20130419.pdf|2.E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Sequential Circuits '''
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD.3.A.LatchFF.20130413.pdf|3A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD.3.B.FSM.20130417.pdf|3B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD.3.C.FState.20130413.pdf|3C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD.3.D.Timing.20130413.pdf|3D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Metastability ([[Media:DD.3.E.MetaState.20130628.pdf|3E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;

[[Category:Digital Circuit Design]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>hgme8pe3bgftq13ud52119z12f3ah10</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807363</id>
      <parentid>2807354</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:58:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/*  Timing Analysis  */</comment>
      <origin>2807363</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9835" sha1="sx8zlzfcmd3sqzvko5lvq7idkycbih3" xml:space="preserve">
== ''' Number Systems '''== 

=== ''' Binary Representation '''=== 
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD1.1.A.BinaryNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD1.2.A.HexaNum.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Other Codes ([[Media:DD1.3A.Code.20250329.pdf|A.pdf]])

=== ''' Binary Arithmetic '''=== 
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.4.A.BinaryArith.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* BCD Arithmetic ([[Media:DD1.5.A.BCDArith.20130918.pdf|A.pdf]])

=== ''' C Program Examples '''=== 
* Binary Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD1.6.A.BNumInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Binary Addition in C programs ([[Media:DD1.7.A.BArithInC.20140103.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Floating Point Numbers '''=== 

* Floating Point Representations  ([[Media:CDesign.5.A.FPoint.20140121.pdf|5A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
:: See [http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~aboulham/F1214/Session%206Arithm/Floating_Point_Numbers.pdf Floating Point Overview]
:: See [http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~patrice/210-2006/210%20LN04_2.pdf Offset Binary Overview]
:: See [http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an96/an9657.pdf Offset Binary &amp; Sin / Cosine]
:: See [http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/hp/staff/dmb/courses/dig2/4_Analog.pdf Offset Binary &amp; ADC / DAC]
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Interfacing Digital and Analog Signals '''=== 
* Sampling and Quantization   ([[Media:DD1.10.A.SampleQuant.20150425.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Digital-to-Analog Conversion  ([[Media:DD1.8.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Analog-to-Digital Conversion ([[Media:DD1.9.A.DAC.20140208.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Combinational Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD2.A1.BAlgebra.20250503.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* Truth Tables ([[Media:DD2.A2.TTable.20250424.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* K-Map ([[Media:DD2.A3.KMap.20250424.pdf|A3.pdf]])
* Design Examples ([[Media:DD2.A4.CombEx.20250414.pdf|A4.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Decoder ([[Media:DD2.B.1.Decoder.20130928.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Encoder ([[Media:DD2.B.2.Encoder.20130917.pdf|B2.pdf]])
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DD2.B.3.Multiplexer.20130928.pdf|B3.pdf]])
* Adder ([[Media:DD2.B.4..Adder.20131007.pdf|B4.pdf]], [[Media:Fa.sch.20131002.pdf|fa.sch.pdf]], [[Media:Adder4.sch.20131002.pdf|adder4.sch.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Design Metric '''=== 
* Noise Margin ([[Media:DD2.C1.NoiseMargin.20250415.pdf|C1.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Sequential Circuits'''==

=== ''' Design '''=== 
* Types of Flip-Flops ([[Media:CDesign.1.A.FF.20130412.pdf |1A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Latches and Flipflops ([[Media:DD3.A.1.LatchFF.20160308.pdf|A1.pdf]])
* State Transition Table ([[Media:DD3.A.2.pdf|A2.pdf]])
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD3.A.3.FSM.20131030.pdf|A3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* The Classic FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131126.pdf|A7.pdf]])
* The Modern FF Design ([[Media:DD3.A.6.ClassicFF.20131204.2.pdf|A8.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Components '''=== 
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD3.B.1.LatchFF.20131008.pdf|B1.pdf]])
* Registers ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Register.20150326.pdf|B2.pdf]], [[Media:Register.20131118.pdf|register.pdf]])
* Counters ([[Media:DD3.B.2.Counter.20150420.pdf|B3.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Timing Analysis '''=== 
* Metastability ([[Media:DD3.A.4.MetaState.20131030.pdf|A4.pdf]])
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD3.A5.FFTiming.20260430.pdf|A5.pdf]])
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD3.A.5.ForbiddenState.20131030.pdf|A6.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

* FF Min Max Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.MinMaxTiming.20131121.pdf |pdf]])
* FF Clock Skew Timing Constraints ([[Media:CArch.ClockSkew.20131121.pdf |pdf]])

* Synchronizer ([[Media:CArch.Synchronizer.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
* Resolution Time Analysis  ([[Media:CArch.Resolution.20131216.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Finite State Machine'''==

* FSM State Encoding 
* FSM Types : Mealy and Moore Machines
* FSM Example ([[Media:CArch.2.A.FSMExample.20141018.pdf |pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Array  Devices''' ==

=== ''' Memory Arrays '''=== 
* RAM 
** RAM Structure ([[Media:DD4.A.1.RAM.20131111.pdf|A.pdf]])
** RAM Timing ([[Media:DD4.B.1.RAMTiming.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
** FPGA RAM ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGARAM.20160513.pdf|C.pdf]])

* ROM
&lt;/br&gt;

=== ''' Logic Arrays '''=== 
* PLA 
* PAL
* PLD
* FPGA
** FPGA Structure
** FPGA Configuration ([[Media:DD4.C.1.FPGAConf.20131130.pdf|B.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/sramop.pdf  Synchronous SRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Technical%20Note/DRAM/tn4529.pdf Asynchronous SRAM Timing]&lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ece548/localcpy/dramop.pdf DRAM Timing] &lt;/br&gt;

[http://www.ece.unm.edu/~jimp/415/slides/fpga_arch1.pdf FPGA Architectures] &lt;/br&gt;
[http://www.engr.siu.edu/~haibo/ece428/notes/ece428_fpgaarch.pdf CPLD &amp; FPGA] &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== ''' RTL Design Techniques''' ==
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Design Methodology '''
&lt;/br&gt;


''' Synthesis '''
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== '''Logic Families and IOs''' ==
* BJT Based 
:: DTL (Diode-Transistor Logic)
:: TTL (Transistor-Transistor Logic)
:: ECL (Emitter-Coupled Logic)
 
* MOS Based
:: CMOS (Complementary MOS)
:: Pseudo-nMOS 
:: Transmission Gate
:: BiCMOS (Bipolr + CMOS)
 
* Dynamic CMOS 
:: Domino
:: Clocked-CMOS (C&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;MOS)
&lt;/br&gt; 

* Modern I/O Standards
:: TTL and LVTTL (Low Voltage TTL)
:: CMOS and LVCMOS (Low Voltage CMOS)
:: SSTL (Stub Series Terminated Logic)
:: HSTL (High Speed Tranceiver Logic)
:: LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signaling) 

&lt;/br&gt;

* Wikipedia Pages for Logic Families ([[Media:Logic Families.wiki.20140812.pdf|A.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;
&lt;[[The necessities in Computer Organization]]&gt;  &lt;/br&gt;


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

== '''Old''' ==
'''Until 2011.12''' 
'''Chapter 1. Binary Numbers'''
* 1.1 Binary Numbers([[Media:BinaryNumbers.1.A.pdf|pdf]])

''' Minterm, Maxterm, HW '''
* 1.1 Lecture01([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110922.pdf|pdf]])

''' Overflow HW '''
* Overflow Table([[Media:Overflow table.20110924.pdf|pdf]])

''' K-Map '''
* K-Map([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110926.pdf|pdf]])

''' Binary Adder '''
* Binary Adder (C, S) ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20110929.pdf|pdf]])
* Overflow detection circuit (V) ([[Media:HW Overflow20111001.pdf|pdf]])

''' BCD to Ex3 Code Coversion, Dont' Care '''
* BCD to Ex3 Code Conversion ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111006.pdf|pdf]])

''' Prime Implicant, Dont' Care '''
* Prime Implicant, Don't Care ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111010.pdf|pdf]])
* HW 3.6 - explain the method of combining 0's and X's

''' Multiplexer / Demultiplexer '''
* Multiplexer ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111024.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (TBD)

''' Flip Flop / Latch '''
* FF &amp; Latch ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* FF &amp; Latch HW ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111027.pdf|pdf]])
* Gated D Latch &amp; Master-Slave D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111031.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Forbidden state and Indeterminate state) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111102.pdf|pdf]]) (note in #2, S' R' instead of S R)
* Classical Edge Triggered D FlipFlop ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111112.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (addition in SW and HW) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111112.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM1  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM1.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* FSM2  ([[Media:DigitalDesign.FSM2.20111117.pdf|pdf]]) 
* HW (FSM Waveforms) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111118.pdf|pdf]]) 
 
 
''' Counter '''
* Sychronous Counter ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111121.pdf|pdf]])
* Ripple Counter, Multiplexer, Tri-state buffer([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111124.pdf|pdf]])
* Register ([[Media:DigitalDesign.register.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Timing ([[Media:DigitalDesign.timing.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Multiplexer, Shift Register) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111201.pdf|pdf]])
* Universal Shift Register, Memory Cell ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111206.pdf|pdf]])
* HW (Bit Serial Adder) ([[Media:DigitalDesign (HW).20111206.pdf|pdf]])
 
 
''' Memory '''
* Memory ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111208.pdf|pdf]])

''' Comparator, Multiplier '''
* Comparator, Multiplier ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111219.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])
 
 
'''Multiplexer based design method '''
* Multiplexer Design Method ([[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.spread.pdf|1.pdf]], [[Media:DigitalDesign.20111221.draw.pdf|2.pdf]])


midterm result ([[Media:MidReult.20111027.pdf|pdf]])

 
* Edge Triggered Flip Flop ([[Media:EdgeTrigFF.20111224.pdf|pdf]])
* FF Timing ([[Media:FFTiming.20111203.pdf|pdf]])


&lt;/br&gt; &lt;/br&gt;
'''Until 2013.07''' 

''' Number Systems '''
* Binary Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.A.BinNum.20130309.pdf|A.pdf]])
* Hexadecimal Numbers ([[Media:DD.1.B.HexaNum.20130417.pdf|B.pdf]])
* Numbers in C programs ([[Media:DD.1.C.CNum.20130309.pdf|C.pdf]])
* Codes ([[Media:DD.1.D.Coding.20130319.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt;
* Helpful Wikipedia Pages ([[Media:DD.WP.NumberSystem.20130309.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Combinational Circuits '''
* Truth Tables and Boolean Functions ([[Media:DD.2.A.TTable.20130325.pdf|2A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* K-Map ([[Media:DD.2.A.KMap.20130329.pdf|2B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Addition in C ([[Media:DD.2.C.BAinC.20130329.pdf|2.C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Binary Arithmetic ([[Media:DD.2.D.BAri.2013.pdf|2.D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Boolean Algebra ([[Media:DD.2.E.BAlgebra.20130419.pdf|2.E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

''' Sequential Circuits '''
* Latches and Flip-flops ([[Media:DD.3.A.LatchFF.20130413.pdf|3A.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* FSM (Finite State Machine) ([[Media:DD.3.B.FSM.20130417.pdf|3B.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* SR Latch Forbidden State ([[Media:DD.3.C.FState.20130413.pdf|3C.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Flip-flop Timing ([[Media:DD.3.D.Timing.20130413.pdf|3D.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
* Metastability ([[Media:DD.3.E.MetaState.20130628.pdf|3E.pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

See also &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Design]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;
&quot;[[The necessities in Computer Architecture]]&quot;  &lt;/br&gt;

[[Category:Digital Circuit Design]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>sx8zlzfcmd3sqzvko5lvq7idkycbih3</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>VHDL programming in plain view</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>121359</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807240</id>
      <parentid>2806962</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T15:48:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Data */</comment>
      <origin>2807240</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2278" sha1="ml62znjebl3m91zwbb48omh7lx6bhsd" xml:space="preserve">&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

== Flip Flop and Latch ==
* FFLatch.Overview.1.A ([[Media:FFLatch.Overview.1.A.20111103.pdf|pdf]])
* Counter.74LS193.1.A ([[Media:Counter.74LS193.1.A.20111108.pdf|pdf]])
* Clock.Overview.1.A ([[Media:Clock.Overview.1.A.20111108.pdf|pdf]])
* Function.Overview.1.A ([[Media:Function.Overview.1.A.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;br&gt; 

== Versions of VHDL ==
* VHDL Versions ([[Media:VHDL.1.A.Versions.20120619.pdf|pdf]])
* VHDL Libraries ([[Media:VHDL.1.A.Libraries.20140219.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;br&gt;

== Basic Features of VHDL ==
==== Data ====
* Data Objects ([[Media:Data.Object.1A.20260429.pdf|A]], [[Media:Data.Object.1B.20260429.pdf|B]])
* Data Types ([[Media:Data.Type.2A.20260429.pdf|A]], [[Media:Data.Type.2B.20260429.pdf|B]])
* Packages ([[Media:Data.Package.3A.20251206.pdf|pdf]])
* Signal Types ([[Media:Signal.Type.1A.20250614.pdf|pdf]])
* Attributes ([[Media:Data.4.A.Attribute.20251021.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;br&gt;

==== Signals &amp; Variables ====
* Signals &amp; Variables ([[Media:Signal.1A.SigVar.20250614.pdf|pdf]])
* Sequential Signal Assignments ([[Media:Signal.4A.Sequential.20250612.pdf|pdf]])
* Concurrent &amp; Sequential Signal Assignments ([[Media:Signal.1.A.ConSeq.20120611.pdf|pdf]])
* Inertial &amp; Transport Delay Models ([[Media:Signal.2.A.InertTrans.20120704.pdf|pdf]])
* Simulation &amp; Synthesis ([[Media:Signal.3.A.SimSyn.20120504.pdf|pdf]])


&lt;br&gt;

==== Structure ====
* Component ([[Media:Struct.1.A.Component.20120804.pdf|pdf]])
* Configuration ([[Media:Struct.1.A.Configuration.20121003.pdf|pdf]])
* Generic ([[Media:Struct.1.A.Generic.20120802.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

==== Entity and Architecture ====

&lt;br&gt; 
==== Block Statement ====

&lt;br&gt; 
==== Process Statement ====

&lt;br&gt;
==== Operators ====

&lt;br&gt;
==== Assignment Statement ====

&lt;br&gt; 
==== Concurrent Statement ====

&lt;br&gt; 
==== Sequential Control Statement ====

&lt;br&gt;
==== Function ====
* Function.1.A Usage ([[Media:Function.1.A.Usage.20120611.pdf|pdf]])
* Function.2.A Conversion Function ([[Media:Function.2.A.Conversion.pdf|pdf]])
* Function.3.A Resolution Function ([[Media:Function.3.A.Resolution.pdf|pdf]])

&lt;br&gt;
==== Procedure ====


&lt;br&gt;
==== Package ====
&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

[[Category:VHDL]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>ml62znjebl3m91zwbb48omh7lx6bhsd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807247</id>
      <parentid>2807240</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T16:07:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Data */</comment>
      <origin>2807247</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2278" sha1="2v9kvng84roemxn6taka1j7oq3wnju5" xml:space="preserve">&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

== Flip Flop and Latch ==
* FFLatch.Overview.1.A ([[Media:FFLatch.Overview.1.A.20111103.pdf|pdf]])
* Counter.74LS193.1.A ([[Media:Counter.74LS193.1.A.20111108.pdf|pdf]])
* Clock.Overview.1.A ([[Media:Clock.Overview.1.A.20111108.pdf|pdf]])
* Function.Overview.1.A ([[Media:Function.Overview.1.A.20111201.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;br&gt; 

== Versions of VHDL ==
* VHDL Versions ([[Media:VHDL.1.A.Versions.20120619.pdf|pdf]])
* VHDL Libraries ([[Media:VHDL.1.A.Libraries.20140219.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;br&gt;

== Basic Features of VHDL ==
==== Data ====
* Data Objects ([[Media:Data.Object.1A.20260430.pdf|A]], [[Media:Data.Object.1B.20260430.pdf|B]])
* Data Types ([[Media:Data.Type.2A.20260430.pdf|A]], [[Media:Data.Type.2B.20260430.pdf|B]])
* Packages ([[Media:Data.Package.3A.20251206.pdf|pdf]])
* Signal Types ([[Media:Signal.Type.1A.20250614.pdf|pdf]])
* Attributes ([[Media:Data.4.A.Attribute.20251021.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;br&gt;

==== Signals &amp; Variables ====
* Signals &amp; Variables ([[Media:Signal.1A.SigVar.20250614.pdf|pdf]])
* Sequential Signal Assignments ([[Media:Signal.4A.Sequential.20250612.pdf|pdf]])
* Concurrent &amp; Sequential Signal Assignments ([[Media:Signal.1.A.ConSeq.20120611.pdf|pdf]])
* Inertial &amp; Transport Delay Models ([[Media:Signal.2.A.InertTrans.20120704.pdf|pdf]])
* Simulation &amp; Synthesis ([[Media:Signal.3.A.SimSyn.20120504.pdf|pdf]])


&lt;br&gt;

==== Structure ====
* Component ([[Media:Struct.1.A.Component.20120804.pdf|pdf]])
* Configuration ([[Media:Struct.1.A.Configuration.20121003.pdf|pdf]])
* Generic ([[Media:Struct.1.A.Generic.20120802.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

==== Entity and Architecture ====

&lt;br&gt; 
==== Block Statement ====

&lt;br&gt; 
==== Process Statement ====

&lt;br&gt;
==== Operators ====

&lt;br&gt;
==== Assignment Statement ====

&lt;br&gt; 
==== Concurrent Statement ====

&lt;br&gt; 
==== Sequential Control Statement ====

&lt;br&gt;
==== Function ====
* Function.1.A Usage ([[Media:Function.1.A.Usage.20120611.pdf|pdf]])
* Function.2.A Conversion Function ([[Media:Function.2.A.Conversion.pdf|pdf]])
* Function.3.A Resolution Function ([[Media:Function.3.A.Resolution.pdf|pdf]])

&lt;br&gt;
==== Procedure ====


&lt;br&gt;
==== Package ====
&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

[[Category:VHDL]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>2v9kvng84roemxn6taka1j7oq3wnju5</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Linux System programming in plain view</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>136794</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807263</id>
      <parentid>2806977</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T18:01:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* File System */</comment>
      <origin>2807263</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3197" sha1="nzmfpgfn4dwxxhz894g4jghly2q19um" xml:space="preserve">This course belongs to the [[Electrical &amp; Computer Engineering Studies]]

== Introduction ==
* Introduction ([[Media:SysP.Intro.20161128.pdf|pdf]])

== File System ==
* File System ([[Media:SysP.FileSystem.20251023.pdf|pdf]])
* File Pointer ([[Media:SysP..FilePointer.20161103.pdf|pdf]])
* System Calls ([[Media:SysP.File.SysCall.20161128.pdf|pdf]])
* File IO ([[Media:SysP.FileIO.20251023.pdf|pdf]])


* Copilot: File System ([[Media:glibcFileSystem.20251029-2.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: File Buffer ([[Media:glibcFileBuffer.20251025-2.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: File IO ([[Media:glibcFileIO.20251025-2.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: File Permission ([[Media:glibcFilePerm.20260121.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: File Control ([[Media:CP.FileCntl.20260428.pdf|pdf]], [[Media:CP.FileCntl.A.20260429.pdf|A]], [[Media:CP.FileCntl.B.20260430.pdf|B]], [[Media:CP.FileCntl.C.20260501.pdf|C]])

&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;

== Process ==
* Process  ([[Media:SysP.Process.20251120.pdf|pdf]])
* Fork  ([[Media:SysP.Fork.20251126.pdf|pdf]])


* Copilot: Process Information ([[Media:glibc.Process.1Info.20251101.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Process Control ([[Media:glibc.Process.2Control.20251103.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Process Execution ([[Media:glibc.Proc.3Exec.20251105.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Process Fork ([[Media:glibc.Proc.4Fork.20251106.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Process Context Switching ([[Media:glibc.Proc.5Context.20251107.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Process Exec family of functions ([[Media:glibc.Proc.6ExecCall.20251112.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Process Wait family of functions ([[Media:glibc.Proc.7WaitCall.20251112.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Process Exit ([[Media:glibc.Proc.8Exit.20251113.pdf|pdf]])

&lt;/br&gt;

== Inter Process Communication==

=== Signal ===
* Signal  ([[Media:SysP.7.A.Signal.20121206.pdf|pdf]])


* Copilot: Signal 1. Alarm ([[Media:glibc.Signal.Alarm.20251201.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Signal 2. Other Functions ([[Media:glibc.Signal.2Other.20251205.pdf|pdf]])

&lt;/br&gt;

=== Pipe ===

* Pipe ([[Media:SysP.3.A.IPC.20121115.pdf|pdf]])


* Copilot: Pipe 1. A Special File ([[Media:glibc.Pipe.File.20260307.pdf|pdf]])

&lt;/br&gt;

=== System V IPC ===

* Message Queue  ([[Media:SysP.5.A.MessageQ.20121213.pdf|pdf]])

* Shared Memory  ([[Media:SysP.8.A.SharedMem.20121227.pdf|pdf]])

* Semaphore  ([[Media:SysP.6.A.Semaphore.20251215.pdf|pdf]])

&lt;/br&gt;

* Copilot: Message Queue ([[Media:glibc.MessageQ.20251202.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Shared Memory ([[Media:glibc.SharedMem.20251203.pdf|pdf]])
* Copilot: Semaphore ([[Media:glibc.Semaphore.20251215.pdf|pdf]])

&lt;/br&gt;

=== Socket ===

* Socket  ([[Media:SysP.4.A.Socket.20121122.pdf|pdf]])

&lt;/br&gt;

== Thread ==
* POSIX thread (pthread)  ([[Media:SysP.9.A.Pthread.20130225.pdf|pdf]])

==External links==
* [http://www.tldp.org/LDP/tlk/tlk.html The Linux Kernel]
* [http://www.tldp.org/LDP/lpg/lpg.html The Linux Programmer's Guide]
* [http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/C/ Programming in C - UNIX System Calls and Subroutines using C.]
* [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/academic/class/15492-f07/www/pthreads.html POSIX thread (pthread) libraries]
* [https://computing.llnl.gov/tutorials/pthreads/#Thread POSIX Threads Programming]

[[Category:Linux]]
[[Category:Computer programming]]
[[Category:C programming language]]</text>
      <sha1>nzmfpgfn4dwxxhz894g4jghly2q19um</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Understanding Arithmetic Circuits</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>139384</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807223</id>
      <parentid>2807102</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:26:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Adder */</comment>
      <origin>2807223</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="3135" sha1="l29b32rpgrudn3p067n7bk72q9z46az" xml:space="preserve">
== Adder ==

* Binary Adder Architecture Exploration ( [[Media:Adder.20131113.pdf|pdf]]  )
 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot;
|-
!  Adder type      !! Overview !! Analysis !! VHDL Level Design  !! CMOS Level Design  
|-
| '''1. Ripple Carry Adder'''
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1A.RCA.20250522.pdf|A]]||
|| [[Media:Adder.rca.20140313.pdf|pdf]]
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1D.RCA.CMOS.20211108.pdf|pdf]]
|-
| '''2. Carry Lookahead Adder'''
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.CLA.20260109.pdf|org]], [[Media:VLSI.Arith.2A.CLA.20260501.pdf|A]], [[Media:VLSI.Arith.2B.CLA.20260304.pdf|B]] ||
|| [[Media:Adder.cla.20140313.pdf|pdf]]||
|-
| '''3. Carry Save Adder''' 
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.CSave.20151209.pdf|A]]||
|| ||
|-
|| '''4. Carry Select Adder''' 
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.CSelA.20191002.pdf|A]]||
|| || 
|-
|| '''5. Carry Skip Adder'''
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.5A.CSkip.20250405.pdf|A]]||
|| 
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.5D.CSkip.CMOS.20211108.pdf|pdf]]
|- 
|| '''6. Carry Chain Adder'''
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.6A.CCA.20211109.pdf|A]]||
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.6C.CCA.VHDL.20211109.pdf|pdf]],  [[Media:Adder.cca.20140313.pdf|pdf]]
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.6D.CCA.CMOS.20211109.pdf|pdf]]
|- 
|| '''7. Kogge-Stone Adder'''
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.KSA.20140315.pdf|A]]||
|| [[Media:Adder.ksa.20140409.pdf|pdf]]||
|-
|| '''8. Prefix Adder'''
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.PFA.20140314.pdf|A]]||
|| || 
|-
|| '''9.1 Variable Block Adder'''
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1A.VBA.20221110.pdf|A]], [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1B.VBA.20230911.pdf|B]], [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1C.VBA.20240622.pdf|C]], [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1C.VBA.20250218.pdf|D]]||
|| || 
|-
|| '''9.2 Multi-Level Variable Block Adder'''
|| [[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.VBA-Multi.20221031.pdf|A]]||
|| || 
|}
&lt;/br&gt;
 
=== Adder Architectures Suitable for FPGA === 
* FPGA Carry-Chain Adder ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.FPGA-CCA.20210421.pdf|pdf]])
* FPGA Carry Select Adder ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.B.FPGA-CarrySelect.20210522.pdf|pdf]])
* FPGA Variable Block Adder ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.C.FPGA-VariableBlock.20220125.pdf|pdf]])
* FPGA Carry Lookahead Adder ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.D.FPGA-CLookahead.20210304.pdf|pdf]])
* Carry-Skip Adder
&lt;/br&gt;

== Barrel Shifter ==
* Barrel Shifter Architecture Exploration ([[Media:Bshift.20131105.pdf|bshfit.vhdl]], [[Media:Bshift.makefile.20131109.pdf|bshfit.makefile]])
&lt;/br&gt;

'''Mux Based Barrel Shifter'''
* Analysis  ([[Media:Arith.BShfiter.20151207.pdf|pdf]]) 
* Implementation 
&lt;/br&gt;

== Multiplier == 
=== Array Multipliers ===
* Analysis  ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.Mult.20151209.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== Tree Mulltipliers ===
* Lattice Multiplication  ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.LatticeMult.20170204.pdf|pdf]])
* Wallace Tree  ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.WallaceTree.20170204.pdf|pdf]])
* Dadda Tree  ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.DaddaTree.20170701.pdf|pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

=== Booth Multipliers ===
* [[Media:RNS4.BoothEncode.20161005.pdf|Booth Encoding Note]]
* Booth Multiplier Note ([[Media:BoothMult.20160929.pdf|H1.pdf]])
&lt;/br&gt;

== Divider == 
* Binary Divider ([[Media:VLSI.Arith.1.A.Divider.20131217.pdf|pdf]])&lt;/br&gt;

&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

[[Category:Digital Circuit Design]]
[[Category:FPGA]]</text>
      <sha1>l29b32rpgrudn3p067n7bk72q9z46az</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Complex analysis in plain view</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>171005</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807232</id>
      <parentid>2807108</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:46:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Geometric Series Examples */</comment>
      <origin>2807232</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5296" sha1="s06icmiyzd6radrcukvdxes430x3aqn" xml:space="preserve">Many of the functions that arise naturally in mathematics and real world applications can be extended to and regarded as complex functions, meaning the input, as well as the output, can be complex numbers &lt;math&gt;x+iy&lt;/math&gt;, where &lt;math&gt;i=\sqrt{-1}&lt;/math&gt;, in such a way that it is a more natural object to study. '''Complex analysis''', which used to be known as '''function theory''' or '''theory of functions of a single complex variable''', is a sub-field of analysis that studies such functions (more specifically, '''holomorphic''' functions) on the complex plane, or part (domain) or extension (Riemann surface) thereof. It notably has great importance in number theory, e.g. the [[Riemann zeta function]] (for the distribution of primes) and other &lt;math&gt;L&lt;/math&gt;-functions, modular forms, elliptic functions, etc. &lt;blockquote&gt;The shortest path between two truths in the real domain passes through the complex domain.  — [[wikipedia:Jacques_Hadamard|Jacques Hadamard]]&lt;/blockquote&gt;In a certain sense, the essence of complex functions is captured by the principle of [[analytic continuation]].{{mathematics}}

==''' Complex Functions '''== 
* Complex Functions ([[Media:CAnal.1.A.CFunction.20140222.Basic.pdf|1.A.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.1.B.CFunction.20140111.Octave.pdf|1.B.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.1.C.CFunction.20140111.Extend.pdf|1.C.pdf]])

* Complex Exponential and Logarithm ([[Media:CAnal.5.A.CLog.20131017.pdf|5.A.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.5.A.Octave.pdf|5.B.pdf]])

* Complex Trigonometric and Hyperbolic ([[Media:CAnal.7.A.CTrigHyper..pdf|7.A.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.7.A.Octave..pdf|7.B.pdf]])

'''Complex Function Note'''
: 1. Exp and Log Function Note ([[Media:ComplexExp.29160721.pdf|H1.pdf]])

: 2. Trig and TrigH Function Note ([[Media:CAnal.Trig-H.29160901.pdf|H1.pdf]])

: 3. Inverse Trig and TrigH Functions Note ([[Media:CAnal.Hyper.29160829.pdf|H1.pdf]])

==''' Complex Integrals '''== 
* Complex Integrals ([[Media:CAnal.2.A.CIntegral.20140224.Basic.pdf|2.A.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.2.B.CIntegral.20140117.Octave.pdf|2.B.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.2.C.CIntegral.20140117.Extend.pdf|2.C.pdf]])

==''' Complex Series '''== 
* Complex Series ([[Media:CPX.Series.20150226.2.Basic.pdf|3.A.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.3.B.CSeries.20140121.Octave.pdf|3.B.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.3.C.CSeries.20140303.Extend.pdf|3.C.pdf]])

==''' Residue Integrals '''==
* Residue Integrals ([[Media:CAnal.4.A.Residue.20140227.Basic.pdf|4.A.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.4.B.pdf|4.B.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.4.C.Residue.20140423.Extend.pdf|4.C.pdf]]) 

==='''Residue Integrals Note'''===
* Laurent Series with the Residue Theorem Note ([[Media:Laurent.1.Residue.20170713.pdf|H1.pdf]])
* Laurent Series with Applications Note ([[Media:Laurent.2.Applications.20170327.pdf|H1.pdf]])
* Laurent Series and the z-Transform Note ([[Media:Laurent.3.z-Trans.20170831.pdf|H1.pdf]])
* Laurent Series as a Geometric Series Note ([[Media:Laurent.4.GSeries.20170802.pdf|H1.pdf]])

=== Laurent Series and the z-Transform Example Note === 
* Overview ([[Media:Laurent.4.z-Example.20170926.pdf|H1.pdf]])

====Geometric Series Examples====

* Causality ([[Media:Laurent.5.Causality.1.A.20191026n.pdf|A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.Causality.1.B.20191026.pdf|B.pdf]]) 

* Time Shift ([[Media:Laurent.5.TimeShift.2.A.20191028.pdf|A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.TimeShift.2.B.20191029.pdf|B.pdf]]) 

* Reciprocity ([[Media:Laurent.5.Reciprocity.3A.20191030.pdf|A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.Reciprocity.3B.20191031.pdf|B.pdf]]) 

* Combinations ([[Media:Laurent.5.Combination.4A.20200702.pdf|A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.Combination.4B.20201002.pdf|B.pdf]]) 

* Properties ([[Media:Laurent.5.Property.5A.20220105.pdf|A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.Property.5B.20220126.pdf|B.pdf]]) 

* Permutations ([[Media:Laurent.6.Permutation.6A.20230711.pdf|A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.Permutation.6B.20251225.pdf|B.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.Permutation.6C.20260501.pdf|C.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.Permutation.6C.20240528.pdf|D.pdf]]) 

* Applications ([[Media:Laurent.5.Application.6B.20220723.pdf|A.pdf]]) 

* Double Pole Case

:- Examples ([[Media:Laurent.5.DPoleEx.7A.20220722.pdf|A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.DPoleEx.7B.20220720.pdf|B.pdf]]) 

:- Properties ([[Media:Laurent.5.DPoleProp.5A.20190226.pdf|A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.5.DPoleProp.5B.20190228.pdf|B.pdf]])

====The Case Examples====
* Example Overview : ([[Media:Laurent.4.Example.0.A.20171208.pdf|0A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.6.CaseExample.0.B.20180205.pdf|0B.pdf]])
* Example Case 1 : ([[Media:Laurent.4.Example.1.A.20171107.pdf|1A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.4.Example.1.B.20171227.pdf|1B.pdf]])
* Example Case 2 : ([[Media:Laurent.4.Example.2.A.20171107.pdf|2A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.4.Example.2.B.20171227.pdf|2B.pdf]])
* Example Case 3 : ([[Media:Laurent.4.Example.3.A.20171017.pdf|3A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.4.Example.3.B.20171226.pdf|3B.pdf]])
* Example Case 4 : ([[Media:Laurent.4.Example.4.A.20171017.pdf|4A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.4.Example.4.B.20171228.pdf|4B.pdf]])
* Example Summary : ([[Media:Laurent.4.Example.5.A.20171212.pdf|5A.pdf]], [[Media:Laurent.4.Example.5.B.20171230.pdf|5B.pdf]])

==''' Conformal Mapping '''== 
* Conformal Mapping ([[Media:CAnal.6.A.Conformal.20131224.pdf|6.A.pdf]], [[Media:CAnal.6.A.Octave..pdf|6.B.pdf]])

go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

[[Category:Complex analysis]]</text>
      <sha1>s06icmiyzd6radrcukvdxes430x3aqn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>The necessities in Filter Theory</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>199550</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807359</id>
      <parentid>2806981</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:56:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sample Processing Methods */</comment>
      <origin>2807359</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1524" sha1="16qsfqk97u7zjgfdsinlkrdv6fk2wbl" xml:space="preserve">==''' Background '''==
=== Bode plot ===

See [http://lpsa.swarthmore.edu/Bode/Bode.html swarthmore]
&lt;/br&gt;

=== OP Amp ===
Overview ([[Media:OPAmp.A.1.20151203.pdf  |pdf]])
 
See [http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/opampcon.html#c1 Hyperphysics]
&lt;/br&gt;

==''' Analog Filter Analysis (Continuous Time) '''==
=== First Order Filters ===
&lt;/br&gt;

=== Second Order Filters ===
&lt;/br&gt;

==''' Digital Filter Analysis (Discrete Time) '''==

=== Sample Processing Methods  ===
* Tapped Delays ([[Media:Sample.TappedDelay.20260429.pdf  |A.pdf]])
* Programming Considerations
* Circular Buffers

=== FIR Filter Realizations ===
* Direct Form FIR Filter 
* Canonical Form FIR Filter
* Cascade Form FIR Filter

=== IIR Filter Realizations ===
* Direct Form IIR Filter ([[Media:IIR.DirectForm.20231209.pdf  |A.pdf]])
* Canonical Form IIR Filter
* Cascade Form IIR Filter 
&lt;/br&gt;

=== FIR (Finite Impulse Response) Filters ===
* Block Processing Methods
* Sample Processing Methods
* Window Method
* Kaiser Window
* Frequency Sampling Method
&lt;/br&gt;

=== IIR (Infinite Impulse Response) Filters ===
* Bilinear Transform
* 1st Order Lowpass and Highpass Filters
* 2nd Order Lowpass and Highpass Filters
* Parametric Equalizer Filters
* Comb Filters
* High Order Filters
&lt;/br&gt;


=== Example Octave Codes for Digital Filters === 

==== Octave Functions for Filters ====
* Octave Functions for Filters ([[Media:Octave.1.Function.1.A.20180219.pdf  |A.pdf]]) 


&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]</text>
      <sha1>16qsfqk97u7zjgfdsinlkrdv6fk2wbl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807361</id>
      <parentid>2807359</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:57:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Sample Processing Methods */</comment>
      <origin>2807361</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1524" sha1="jgrwxckc5cq64legxgkot0d78ap1bgp" xml:space="preserve">==''' Background '''==
=== Bode plot ===

See [http://lpsa.swarthmore.edu/Bode/Bode.html swarthmore]
&lt;/br&gt;

=== OP Amp ===
Overview ([[Media:OPAmp.A.1.20151203.pdf  |pdf]])
 
See [http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/opampcon.html#c1 Hyperphysics]
&lt;/br&gt;

==''' Analog Filter Analysis (Continuous Time) '''==
=== First Order Filters ===
&lt;/br&gt;

=== Second Order Filters ===
&lt;/br&gt;

==''' Digital Filter Analysis (Discrete Time) '''==

=== Sample Processing Methods  ===
* Tapped Delays ([[Media:Sample.TappedDelay.20260430.pdf  |A.pdf]])
* Programming Considerations
* Circular Buffers

=== FIR Filter Realizations ===
* Direct Form FIR Filter 
* Canonical Form FIR Filter
* Cascade Form FIR Filter

=== IIR Filter Realizations ===
* Direct Form IIR Filter ([[Media:IIR.DirectForm.20231209.pdf  |A.pdf]])
* Canonical Form IIR Filter
* Cascade Form IIR Filter 
&lt;/br&gt;

=== FIR (Finite Impulse Response) Filters ===
* Block Processing Methods
* Sample Processing Methods
* Window Method
* Kaiser Window
* Frequency Sampling Method
&lt;/br&gt;

=== IIR (Infinite Impulse Response) Filters ===
* Bilinear Transform
* 1st Order Lowpass and Highpass Filters
* 2nd Order Lowpass and Highpass Filters
* Parametric Equalizer Filters
* Comb Filters
* High Order Filters
&lt;/br&gt;


=== Example Octave Codes for Digital Filters === 

==== Octave Functions for Filters ====
* Octave Functions for Filters ([[Media:Octave.1.Function.1.A.20180219.pdf  |A.pdf]]) 


&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]</text>
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    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>World War II/Causes of WWII</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>210403</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807271</id>
      <parentid>2743051</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T21:48:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PhilDaBirdMan</username>
        <id>3003027</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807271</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2817" sha1="k1c42uqslt26w3zaq87wtaygwt30jkf" xml:space="preserve">=== Political instability and economic devastation in Europe resulting from WWI ===
# Worldwide depression 
# High war debt owed by Germany et al from the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles Treaty of Versailles] 
# High intonation 
# Massive unemployment
# Bitterness over the Versailles treaty, rhetoric especially focused on re-militarization of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland The Rhineland] by Germany - a direct affront to the treaty.
#President Roosevelt pushed Japan into war by refusing to sell oil to Japan, thereby contributing to the outbreak of war.

=== Rise of Fascism ===
# Fascism is a political philosophy in which total power is given to a dictator and individual freedoms are denied, and nationalism and often racism are emphasized.
# Mussolini's rise to power
# Fascist dictators included Adolf Hitler (Germany) and Benito Mussolini (Italy).
# These dictators led the countries that became known as the Axis Powers.
# The rise of Fascism, Communism, and President Roosevelt threatened peace.

=== Threat of Communism===
* The Communist International held desires for world domination and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country Socialism in one country], which fueled efforts to impose Comintern rule over primarily Eastern European and North Asian States.

* The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge Great Purge] or &quot;The Great Terror&quot; was the result of insatiable paranoia on Josef Stalins part and created large degrees of oppression and distrust amongst every state and person in the Comintern, it can be argued that whilst this degree of authoritarian control created great friction in The Soviet Union it also produced a much stronger as well as a more efficient and trustworthy state for Stalin to Control.

* An unexpected and uneasy pact was signed between the Soviet Union and Hitler's Germany after the division of Poland (Late September 1939) between the two States. This was known as the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact] and was a very unexpected move by both parties. This caused a lot of friction throughout Europe as it essentially gave Hitler a free pass to chase his territorial and political ambitions, free of the imposing Soviet threat.

* After an aggressive offensive against Finland in 1939 ( known as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War The Winter War]) produced moderate success for Stalin, the Soviet Union soon found itself expelled from the League of Nations, mainly through the actions of a USSR-friendly President Roosevelt. This expulsion was a result of Soviet aggression and led to tensions not only between the USSR and America but also in Europe, as Stalin was quickly being painted as just another dictator in the powder keg.

[[Category:World War II]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Python programming in plain view</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>212733</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807252</id>
      <parentid>2806971</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T16:51:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Using Libraries */</comment>
      <origin>2807252</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2647" sha1="evbyffg5co60tf4v50q5s7vkuj4jter" xml:space="preserve">==''' Part I '''==
&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;
===  Introduction ===

* Overview 
* Memory 
* Number 

&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;


=== Python for C programmers ===

* Hello, World! ([[Media:CProg.Hello.1A.20230406.pdf |pdf]])
* Statement Level  ([[Media:CProg.Statement.1A.20230509.pdf |pdf]])
* Output with print
* Formatted output
* File IO

&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;


=== Using Libraries ===

* Scripts ([[Media:Python.Work2.Script.1A.20231129.pdf |pdf]])
* Modules ([[Media:Python.Work2.Module.1A.20231216.pdf |pdf]])
* Packages ([[Media:Python.Work2.Package.1A.20241207.pdf |pdf]])
* Libraries ([[Media:Python.Work2.Library.1A.20260429.pdf |pdf]])
* Namespaces ([[Media:Python.Work2.Scope.1A.20231021.pdf |pdf]])


&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

===   Handling Repetition ===
 
* Control ([[Media:Python.Repeat1.Control.1.A.20230314.pdf |pdf]])

* Loop ([[Media:Repeat2.Loop.1A.20230401.pdf |pdf]])

&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

=== Handling a Big Work ===

* Functions ([[Media:Python.Work1.Function.1A.20230529.pdf |pdf]])
* Lambda ([[Media:Python.Work2.Lambda.1A.20230705.pdf |pdf]])
* Type Annotations ([[Media:Python.Work2.AtypeAnnot.1A.20230817.pdf |pdf]])

  
&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

=== Handling Series of Data ===

* Arrays ([[Media:Python.Series1.Array.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Tuples ([[Media:Python.Series2.Tuple.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Lists ([[Media:Python.Series3.List.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Tuples ([[Media:Python.Series4.Tuple.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Sets ([[Media:Python.Series5.Set.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Dictionary ([[Media:Python.Series6.Dictionary.1A.pdf |pdf]])

&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

=== Handling Various Kinds of Data ===
  
* Types 
* Operators ([[Media:Python.Data3.Operators.1.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Files ([[Media:Python.Data4.File.1.A.pdf |pdf]])


&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

=== Class and Objects ===
  
* Classes &amp; Objects ([[Media:Python.Work2.Class.1A.20230906.pdf |pdf]])
* Inheritance

 
&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== Python in Numerical Analysis  ==
 
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

==External links==
* [http://www.southampton.ac.uk/~fangohr/training/python/pdfs/Python-for-Computational-Science-and-Engineering.pdf Python and Computational Science and Engineering]</text>
      <sha1>evbyffg5co60tf4v50q5s7vkuj4jter</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807254</id>
      <parentid>2807252</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T16:52:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Using Libraries */</comment>
      <origin>2807254</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="2647" sha1="lgandyqnph2kn6qoiuyqwssregfstvu" xml:space="preserve">==''' Part I '''==
&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;
===  Introduction ===

* Overview 
* Memory 
* Number 

&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;


=== Python for C programmers ===

* Hello, World! ([[Media:CProg.Hello.1A.20230406.pdf |pdf]])
* Statement Level  ([[Media:CProg.Statement.1A.20230509.pdf |pdf]])
* Output with print
* Formatted output
* File IO

&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;


=== Using Libraries ===

* Scripts ([[Media:Python.Work2.Script.1A.20231129.pdf |pdf]])
* Modules ([[Media:Python.Work2.Module.1A.20231216.pdf |pdf]])
* Packages ([[Media:Python.Work2.Package.1A.20241207.pdf |pdf]])
* Libraries ([[Media:Python.Work2.Library.1A.20260430.pdf |pdf]])
* Namespaces ([[Media:Python.Work2.Scope.1A.20231021.pdf |pdf]])


&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

===   Handling Repetition ===
 
* Control ([[Media:Python.Repeat1.Control.1.A.20230314.pdf |pdf]])

* Loop ([[Media:Repeat2.Loop.1A.20230401.pdf |pdf]])

&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

=== Handling a Big Work ===

* Functions ([[Media:Python.Work1.Function.1A.20230529.pdf |pdf]])
* Lambda ([[Media:Python.Work2.Lambda.1A.20230705.pdf |pdf]])
* Type Annotations ([[Media:Python.Work2.AtypeAnnot.1A.20230817.pdf |pdf]])

  
&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

=== Handling Series of Data ===

* Arrays ([[Media:Python.Series1.Array.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Tuples ([[Media:Python.Series2.Tuple.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Lists ([[Media:Python.Series3.List.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Tuples ([[Media:Python.Series4.Tuple.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Sets ([[Media:Python.Series5.Set.1A.pdf |pdf]])
* Dictionary ([[Media:Python.Series6.Dictionary.1A.pdf |pdf]])

&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

=== Handling Various Kinds of Data ===
  
* Types 
* Operators ([[Media:Python.Data3.Operators.1.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Files ([[Media:Python.Data4.File.1.A.pdf |pdf]])


&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;

=== Class and Objects ===
  
* Classes &amp; Objects ([[Media:Python.Work2.Class.1A.20230906.pdf |pdf]])
* Inheritance

 
&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;

== Python in Numerical Analysis  ==
 
&lt;/br&gt;
&lt;/br&gt; 
go to [ [[Electrical_%26_Computer_Engineering_Studies]] ]

==External links==
* [http://www.southampton.ac.uk/~fangohr/training/python/pdfs/Python-for-Computational-Science-and-Engineering.pdf Python and Computational Science and Engineering]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Category:Bengali Language</title>
    <ns>14</ns>
    <id>222051</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807347</id>
      <parentid>2610263</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:07:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>~2026-26516-86</username>
        <id>3069850</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807347</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="163" sha1="skbyd56yyp4gt0yjazcau3d2546t82r" xml:space="preserve">[[Category:Modern languages]]
[[Category:Languages by name]]
[[Category:Indo-Aryan languages]]
[[Category:Bangladesh]]
আমার নাম এন্টোনি</text>
      <sha1>skbyd56yyp4gt0yjazcau3d2546t82r</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>World War II/Related Books</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>232007</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807214</id>
      <parentid>2807153</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T12:00:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PhilDaBirdMan</username>
        <id>3003027</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Add Atkinson and his trilogy</comment>
      <origin>2807214</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1704" sha1="pa4b496cdyak3hudtytvno9jh1ahudy" xml:space="preserve">
==Authors==
&lt;!-- Please put authors alphabetical by last name --&gt;
=== Rick Atkinson ===
Pulitzer Prize winner.

* [[Wikipedia:The Liberation Trilogy|''The Liberation Trilogy'']]
** [[Wikipedia:An Army at Dawn|''An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa, 1942–1943'']] (2002), won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize
** ''The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943–1944'' (2007)
** ''The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944–1945'' (2013)

=== Antony Beevor ===

A great (and one of the most well-known) WWII authors is [[Wikipedia:Antony Beevor|Antony Beevor]]; some of his highest-held works include:

* [[Wikipedia:The Second World War (book)|''The Second World War'']] 
* [[Wikipedia:Berlin: The Downfall 1945|''Berlin: The Downfall 1945'']]
* ''The Spanish Civil War''
* ''Paris After the Liberation, 1944–1949''
* [[Wikipedia:Stalingrad (Beevor book)|''Stalingrad'']]

=== Max Hastings ===
* [[Wikipedia:All Hell Let Loose|''All Hell Let Loose:  The World at War 1939-1945'']] (2011), released in the US as ''Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945''
=== Cornelius Ryan ===
* [[wikipedia:The Longest Day (book)|''The Longest Day'']] (1959); {{ISBN|9780671890919}}

=== Norman Stone ===

If you find big books too much to digest and prefer a snappier, more to-the-point overview of things, try [[Wikipedia:Norman Stone|Norman Stone]]. He writes shorter books on WWII subjects as well as other interesting historical subjects. Works include:

* ''World War Two: a Short History'' (2013), Allen Lane/Basic Books
* ''Hitler'' (1980); {{ISBN|0-340-24980-3}} (Coronet Publ.)
* ''Czechoslovakia: Crossroads and Crises, 1918-88'' (1989); {{ISBN|0-333-48507-6}}


[[Category:World War II]]</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>2807273</id>
      <parentid>2807214</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T21:54:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PhilDaBirdMan</username>
        <id>3003027</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807273</origin>
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      <text bytes="1733" sha1="a0m6xkoi5d69t0zuyustrrew3bjts2s" xml:space="preserve">
==Authors==
&lt;!-- Please put authors alphabetically by last name --&gt;
=== Rick Atkinson ===
Pulitzer Prize winner.

* [[Wikipedia:The Liberation Trilogy|''The Liberation Trilogy'']]
** [[Wikipedia:An Army at Dawn|''An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa, 1942–1943'']] (2002), won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize
** ''The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943–1944'' (2007)
** ''The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944–1945'' (2013)

=== Antony Beevor ===

A great (and one of the most well-known) WWII authors is [[Wikipedia:Antony Beevor|Antony Beevor]]; some of his highest-held works include:

* [[Wikipedia:The Second World War (book)|''The Second World War'']] 
* [[Wikipedia:Berlin: The Downfall 1945|''Berlin: The Downfall 1945'']]
* ''The Spanish Civil War''
* ''Paris After the Liberation, 1944–1949''
* [[Wikipedia:Stalingrad (Beevor book)|''Stalingrad'']]

=== Max Hastings ===
* [[Wikipedia:All Hell Let Loose|''All Hell Let Loose:  The World at War 1939-1945'']] (2011), released in the US as ''Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945''
=== Cornelius Ryan ===
* [[wikipedia:The Longest Day (book)|''The Longest Day'']] (1959); {{ISBN|9780671890919}}

=== Norman Stone ===

If you find big books too much to digest and prefer a snappier, more to-the-point overview of things, try [[Wikipedia:Norman Stone|Norman Stone]]. He writes shorter books on WWII subjects as well as other interesting historical subjects. Works include:

* ''World War Two: a Short History'' (2013), Allen Lane/Basic Books
* ''Hitler'' (1980); {{ISBN|0-340-24980-3}} (Coronet Publ.)
* ''Czechoslovakia: Crossroads and Crises, 1918-88'' (1989); {{ISBN|0-333-48507-6}}


[[Category:World War II]]
[[Category:Reading lists]]</text>
      <sha1>a0m6xkoi5d69t0zuyustrrew3bjts2s</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807274</id>
      <parentid>2807273</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T21:54:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PhilDaBirdMan</username>
        <id>3003027</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807274</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1734" sha1="25qvsvu69bm22zh7y1kce0abo100yah" xml:space="preserve">
==Authors==
&lt;!-- Please put authors alphabetically by last name --&gt;
=== Rick Atkinson ===
Pulitzer Prize winner.

* [[Wikipedia:The Liberation Trilogy|''The Liberation Trilogy'']]
** [[Wikipedia:An Army at Dawn|''An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa, 1942–1943'']] (2002), won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize
** ''The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943–1944'' (2007)
** ''The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944–1945'' (2013)

=== Antony Beevor ===

A great (and one of the most well-known) WWII authors is [[Wikipedia:Antony Beevor|Antony Beevor]]; some of his highest-held works include:

* [[Wikipedia:The Second World War (book)|''The Second World War'']] 
* [[Wikipedia:Berlin: The Downfall 1945|''Berlin: The Downfall 1945'']]
* ''The Spanish Civil War''
* ''Paris After the Liberation, 1944–1949''
* [[Wikipedia:Stalingrad (Beevor book)|''Stalingrad'']]

=== Max Hastings ===
* [[Wikipedia:All Hell Let Loose|''All Hell Let Loose:  The World at War 1939-1945'']] (2011), released in the US as ''Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945''
=== Cornelius Ryan ===
* [[wikipedia:The Longest Day (book)|''The Longest Day'']] (1959); {{ISBN|9780671890919}}

=== Norman Stone ===

If you find big books too much to digest and prefer a snappier, more to-the-point overview of things, try [[Wikipedia:Norman Stone|Norman Stone]]. He writes shorter books on WWII subjects as well as other interesting historical subjects. Works include:

* ''World War Two: a Short History'' (2013), Allen Lane/Basic Books
* ''Hitler'' (1980); {{ISBN|0-340-24980-3}} (Coronet Publ.)
* ''Czechoslovakia: Crossroads and Crises, 1918-88'' (1989); {{ISBN|0-333-48507-6}}


[[Category:World War II]]
[[Category:Bibliographies]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Digital Media Concepts/Call of Duty Black Ops 2</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>268840</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807317</id>
      <parentid>2773201</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:42:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>~2026-26651-24</username>
        <id>3069797</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Steaming spelling on streaming effects on cable tv</comment>
      <origin>2807317</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9491" sha1="9kwwzh11kxbtnquv5ms8tl5jydl2tn9" xml:space="preserve">[[File:Netflix 2016 N logo.svg|alt=Netflix is one of the most popular streaming services in the US. |thumb|Netflix logo created in 2015.]]
A streaming service is a digital platform that provides entertainment by the means of video or music through a subscription via any device the service allows. Over the years, streaming services have been very popular and are so close to taking over the cable industry altogether. &lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://media.thinknum.com/articles/a-brief-history-of-video-streaming-by-the-numbers/|title=How streaming started: YouTube, Netflix, and Hulu's quick ascent|website=media.thinknum.com|language=en|access-date=2020-10-12}}&lt;/ref&gt;
== Early Stages ==
On September 5, 1995, ESPNSportsZone streamed a live radio broadcast of a baseball game between the Seattle Mariners and the New York Yankees to all those around the world who had subscribed to the network. They had used newly developed technology by the company Real Networks to conduct this broadcast, for this is said to be the first live-streamed event. Over the years, many companies like Macromedia, Microsoft, and even Apple have developed new technologies to help streaming evolve into what it is today. &lt;ref&gt;{{Cite news|url=https://www.theguardian.com/media-network/media-network-blog/2013/mar/01/history-streaming-future-connected-tv|title=A history of media streaming and the future of connected TV|last=Zambelli|first=Alex|date=2013-03-01|work=The Guardian|access-date=2020-10-12|language=en-GB|issn=0261-3077}}&lt;/ref&gt;

== Streaming in the Early 2000's ==
In the years following this, not only did technology develop, but more companies started to create and start their video streaming functions that led to streaming services. One of the most notable events that took place was the creation of YouTube, an online video company that created a website for people to upload videos on April 23, 2005. YouTube popularity skyrocketed, gaining 30-100 million views per day in between March and July 2006. American streaming site Crunchyroll was founded on May 14, 2006, in which they had streamed video media of East Asia including anime, manga, music, and other forms of entertainment. They had streamed all over the world, but founded in America, to give exposure and to make East Asian entertainment available to people in the states. Not only was the US coming up with all of these streaming services, but the UK also developed “Liveleak”, a Youtube-like website that was mainly focused on sharing politics and footage of world events. Streaming service, Youku was developed in December of 2006 and become one of China’s top online video streaming services. Many streaming services are constantly being developed in different parts of the world to cater to large audiences all over the world. &lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|date=2020-09-09|title=Timeline of online video|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Timeline_of_online_video&amp;oldid=977566661|journal=Wikipedia|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;

== YouTube ==
Many may not classify YouTube as a streaming service, but it did in fact play a huge role in shaping the streaming industry as a whole. Launched in 2005, YouTube was a digital platform that allowed anyone who was a member of the website to post videos to be available to the public. YouTube gained much popularity over the years hitting millions of hits within that same year. In the years following, they also made a deal with NBC which had paved the way for advertisements and partnerships for many of the content creators on the site. Google too also made an acquisition which ended up being a huge step for the evolution of YouTube and the internet. It wasn’t long after where YouTube in 2007 created a partner program allowing content creators to earn income through their content. Many people had and are still earning a decent living by being a YouTuber. In 2011, they entered the broadcasting business where they had started streaming live content for events like concerts, news coverage, and even the Royal Wedding and the Olympics. What started out to be a predominantly video sharing platform evolved into bigger things like YouTube Red, where they had exclusive YouTube content like web series and movies for its subscribers. &lt;ref&gt;https://www.officetimeline.com/blog/youtube-history-timeline&lt;/ref&gt; 
== Amazon Video ==
Widely known for its online store, Amazon was one of the first major US companies to have founded a streaming service in 2006 called “Amazon Video”, or originally known as “Amazon Unbox”. Though the company went through many changes in branding, what stayed the same was the “pay-per-video” streaming service. Amazon though didn’t get very popular until 2018 where they developed “Prime Video”, which allowed Amazon Prime members to not only receive free 2-day shipping on their online store but also allowed an array of movies and TV shows for free with their subscription as Prime members. As of recently, Amazon not only streams movies and TV shows, but they have also started their own production where they have produced their own films and TV shows. To this day, they are one of the more popular streaming services that many people use. &lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://medium.com/@mikeboas/the-forgotten-history-of-amazon-video-c030cba8cf29|title=The Forgotten History of Amazon Video|last=Boas|first=Mike|date=2018-03-14|website=Medium|language=en|access-date=2020-10-12}}&lt;/ref&gt; 
== Netflix ==
Before streaming, Netflix was already coined as one of the world’s leading internet entertainment platforms. Netflix was originally made to be a movie rental service back in 1997. People would order online via the Netflix website and would receive the rental in the mail. They would send it back as soon as their rental was up which was found to be more convenient for those who do not have rental stores near them. They began to grow as a rental service, reaching 5 million members in 2006. 10 years later since its development, Netflix had introduced video streaming where subscribers were able to watch TV and movies on their devices at an instant. By the end of 2007, they had 7.5 million subscribers which continued to grow over the years to come. Now 13 years later, Netflix has over 151 million subscribers and growing, in over 190 countries all over the world. They offer movies, TV shows, documentaries, and such, including Netflix, produced content as well. &lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://interestingengineering.com/the-fascinating-history-of-netflix|title=The Fascinating History of Netflix|date=2020-07-04|website=interestingengineering.com|language=en-US|access-date=2020-10-12}}&lt;/ref&gt;
== Hulu ==
Just like Amazon Video and Netflix, Hulu is one of the more common streaming services that are widely popular in the US. Hulu first started out as a personal blog in 1999 by Amy Hung, who had used it to share pictures and videos with family and friends, way before Myspace, Facebook or Instagram was ever a thing. In 2007, NBC contacted Amy, where she had sold the site to them for an undisclosed amount. After NBC had purchased Hulu, it was not yet a streaming service, for it was partnered with companies like AOL, Comcast, MySpace, Facebook, and Yahoo!. At this time, they didn’t have any content to put out and were strictly partners with these said companies. In 2009 was when The Walt Disney Company offered a deal to Hulu where they could stream content from ABC and Disney Channel, both owned by the company. Hulu began to grow and wherein 2011, they had gained $420 million in revenue, which was shockingly $80 billion short of the target goal. In 2017, Disney had bought 21st Century Fox in which had included 30% stake in Hulu. Then a deal was made where Disney had controlled 60% interest in Hulu. Today, Hulu is officially under Disney’s complete ownership. &lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|date=2020-10-07|title=Hulu|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hulu&amp;oldid=982377245|journal=Wikipedia|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/the-weird-history-of-hulu-com/|title=The Weird History of Hulu.com|date=2016-02-02|website=Cord Cutters News|language=en-US|access-date=2020-10-12}}&lt;/ref&gt; 
== Other Streaming Services ==
In the past few years, many streaming services have been on the rise. Specifically, TV networks like NBC, CBS, ESPN, HBO, and even Apple have all started their own streaming services where they offer their content on-demand to their subscribers. 

Some on-demand streaming TV services are:

- Peacock (NBC)

- ESPN+ 

- Disney+

- HBO Max

- CBS All Access

- Apple TV+

&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.cabletv.com/blog/best-streaming-services|title=Best Live TV Streaming Services for 2020|date=2020-08-21|website=CableTV.com|language=en-US|access-date=2020-10-12}}&lt;/ref&gt;
== Streaming Effects on CableTV ==
Currently, more people pay for a streaming video service than those paying for cable services. This trend is based on the generational difference, where the younger generation are the ones using streaming and the older generation are using cable. In the US, 43% of consumers pay for both streaming and cable services. 

&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisbrantner/2019/03/20/americans-now-pay-more-for-streaming-services-than-cable-tv/|title=More Americans Now Pay For Streaming Services Than Cable TV|last=Brantner|first=Chris|website=Forbes|language=en|access-date=2020-10-12}}&lt;/ref&gt;
== References ==

[[Category:Digital Media Concepts]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>C language in plain view</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>285380</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807228</id>
      <parentid>2807106</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:38:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Applications */</comment>
      <origin>2807228</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="9878" sha1="axapqnkteqnr24r79j9mo6r7jrkoe1p" xml:space="preserve">=== Introduction ===
* Overview ([[Media:C01.Intro1.Overview.1.A.20170925.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C01.Intro1.Overview.1.B.20170901.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:C01.Intro1.Overview.1.C.20170904.pdf |C.pdf]])
* Number System ([[Media:C01.Intro2.Number.1.A.20171023.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C01.Intro2.Number.1.B.20170909.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:C01.Intro2.Number.1.C.20170914.pdf |C.pdf]])
* Memory System ([[Media:C01.Intro2.Memory.1.A.20170907.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C01.Intro3.Memory.1.B.20170909.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:C01.Intro3.Memory.1.C.20170914.pdf |C.pdf]])

=== Handling Repetition ===
* Control ([[Media:C02.Repeat1.Control.1.A.20170925.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C02.Repeat1.Control.1.B.20170918.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:C02.Repeat1.Control.1.C.20170926.pdf |C.pdf]])
* Loop ([[Media:C02.Repeat2.Loop.1.A.20170925.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C02.Repeat2.Loop.1.B.20170918.pdf |B.pdf]])

=== Handling a Big Work ===
* Function Overview ([[Media:C03.Func1.Overview.1.A.20171030.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C03.Func1.Oerview.1.B.20161022.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Functions &amp; Variables ([[Media:C03.Func2.Variable.1.A.20161222.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C03.Func2.Variable.1.B.20161222.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Functions &amp; Pointers ([[Media:C03.Func3.Pointer.1.A.20161122.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C03.Func3.Pointer.1.B.20161122.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Functions &amp; Recursions ([[Media:C03.Func4.Recursion.1.A.20161214.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C03.Func4.Recursion.1.B.20161214.pdf |B.pdf]])

=== Handling Series of Data ===

==== Background ==== 
* Background ([[Media:C04.Series0.Background.1.A.20180727.pdf |A.pdf]])
 
==== Basics ====
* Pointers ([[Media:C04.S1.Pointer.1A.20240524.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series2.Pointer.1.B.20161115.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Arrays ([[Media:C04.S2.Array.1A.20240514.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series1.Array.1.B.20161115.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Array Pointers ([[Media:C04.S3.ArrayPointer.1A.20240208.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series3.ArrayPointer.1.B.20181203.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Multi-dimensional Arrays ([[Media:C04.Series4.MultiDim.1.A.20221130.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series4.MultiDim.1.B.1111.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Array Access Methods ([[Media:C04.Series4.ArrayAccess.1.A.20190511.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series3.ArrayPointer.1.B.20181203.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Structures ([[Media:C04.Series3.Structure.1.A.20171204.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series2.Structure.1.B.20161130.pdf |B.pdf]])

==== Examples ==== 
* Spreadsheet Example Programs
:: Example 1 ([[Media:C04.Series7.Example.1.A.20171213.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series7.Example.1.C.20171213.pdf |C.pdf]])
:: Example 2 ([[Media:C04.Series7.Example.2.A.20171213.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series7.Example.2.C.20171213.pdf |C.pdf]])
:: Example 3 ([[Media:C04.Series7.Example.3.A.20171213.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C04.Series7.Example.3.C.20171213.pdf |C.pdf]])
:: Bubble Sort ([[Media:C04.Series7.BubbleSort.1.A.20171211.pdf |A.pdf]])

==== Applications ==== 
* Address-of and de-reference operators ([[Media:C04.SA0.PtrOperator.1A.20260501.pdf |A.pdf]])
* Applications of Pointers ([[Media:C04.SA1.AppPointer.1A.20241121.pdf |A.pdf]])
* Applications of Arrays ([[Media:C04.SA2.AppArray.1A.20240715.pdf |A.pdf]])
* Applications of Array Pointers ([[Media:C04.SA3.AppArrayPointer.1A.20240210.pdf |A.pdf]])
* Applications of Multi-dimensional Arrays ([[Media:C04.Series4App.MultiDim.1.A.20210719.pdf |A.pdf]])
* Applications of Array Access Methods ([[Media:C04.Series9.AppArrAcess.1.A.20190511.pdf |A.pdf]])
* Applications of Structures ([[Media:C04.Series6.AppStruct.1.A.20190423.pdf |A.pdf]])

=== Handling Various Kinds of Data ===
* Types ([[Media:C05.Data1.Type.1.A.20180217.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C05.Data1.Type.1.B.20161212.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Typecasts ([[Media:C05.Data2.TypeCast.1.A.20180217.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C05.Data2.TypeCast.1.B.20161216.pdf |A.pdf]])
* Operators ([[Media:C05.Data3.Operators.1.A.20161219.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C05.Data3.Operators.1.B.20161216.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Files ([[Media:C05.Data4.File.1.A.20161124.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:C05.Data4.File.1.B.20161212.pdf |B.pdf]])

=== Handling Low Level Operations ===
* Bitwise Operations ([[Media:BitOp.1.B.20161214.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:BitOp.1.B.20161203.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Bit Field ([[Media:BitField.1.A.20161214.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:BitField.1.B.20161202.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Union ([[Media:Union.1.A.20161221.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Union.1.B.20161111.pdf |B.pdf]])
* Accessing IO Registers ([[Media:IO.1.A.20141215.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:IO.1.B.20161217.pdf |B.pdf]])

=== Declarations ===
* Type Specifiers and Qualifiers ([[Media:C07.Spec1.Type.1.A.20171004.pdf |pdf]])
* Storage Class Specifiers ([[Media:C07.Spec2.Storage.1.A.20171009.pdf |pdf]])
* Scope 


=== Class Notes ===

* TOC ([[Media:TOC.20171007.pdf |TOC.pdf]])
* Day01 ([[Media:Day01.A.20171007.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day01.B.20171209.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day01.C.20171211.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Introduction (1) Standard Library
* Day02 ([[Media:Day02.A.20171007.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day02.B.20171209.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day02.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Introduction (2) Basic Elements
* Day03 ([[Media:Day03.A.20171007.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day03.B.20170908.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day03.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Introduction (3) Numbers
* Day04 ([[Media:Day04.A.20171007.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day04.B.20170915.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day04.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Structured Programming (1) Flowcharts
* Day05 ([[Media:Day05.A.20171007.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day05.B.20170915.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day05.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Structured Programming (2) Conditions and Loops
* Day06 ([[Media:Day06.A.20171007.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day06.B.20170923.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day06.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Program Control
* Day07 ([[Media:Day07.A.20171007.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day07.B.20170926.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day07.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Function (1) Definitions
* Day08 ([[Media:Day08.A.20171028.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day08.B.20171016.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day08.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Function (2) Storage Class and Scope
* Day09 ([[Media:Day09.A.20171007.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day09.B.20171017.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day09.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Function (3) Recursion
* Day10 ([[Media:Day10.A.20171209.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day10.B.20171017.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day10.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Arrays (1) Definitions
* Day11 ([[Media:Day11.A.20171024.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day11.B.20171017.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day11.C.20171212.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Arrays (2) Applications
* Day12 ([[Media:Day12.A.20171024.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day12.B.20171020.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day12.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Pointers (1) Definitions
* Day13 ([[Media:Day13.A.20171025.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day13.B.20171024.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day13.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Pointers (2) Applications
* Day14 ([[Media:Day14.A.20171226.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day14.B.20171101.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day14.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... C String (1) 
* Day15 ([[Media:Day15.A.20171209.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day15.B.20171124.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day15.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... C String (2)
* Day16 ([[Media:Day16.A.20171208.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day16.B.20171114.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day16.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... C Formatted IO
* Day17 ([[Media:Day17.A.20171031.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day17.B.20171111.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day17.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Structure (1) Definitions
* Day18 ([[Media:Day18.A.20171206.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day18.B.20171128.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day18.C.20171212.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Structure (2) Applications
* Day19 ([[Media:Day19.A.20171205.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day19.B.20171121.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day19.C.20171209.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Union, Bitwise Operators, Enum
* Day20 ([[Media:Day20.A.20171205.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day20.B.20171201.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day20.C.20171212.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Linked List 
* Day21 ([[Media:Day21.A.20171206.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day21.B.20171208.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day21.C.20171212.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... File Processing
* Day22 ([[Media:Day22.A.20171212.pdf |A.pdf]], [[Media:Day22.B.20171213.pdf |B.pdf]], [[Media:Day22.C.20171212.pdf |C.pdf]]) ...... Preprocessing


&lt;!----------------------------------------------------------------------&gt;
&lt;/br&gt;
See also https://cprogramex.wordpress.com/

== '''Old Materials '''==

until 201201
* Intro.Overview.1.A ([[Media:C.Intro.Overview.1.A.20120107.pdf |pdf]])
* Intro.Memory.1.A ([[Media:C.Intro.Memory.1.A.20120107.pdf |pdf]])
* Intro.Number.1.A ([[Media:C.Intro.Number.1.A.20120107.pdf |pdf]])
* Repeat.Control.1.A ([[Media:C.Repeat.Control.1.A.20120109.pdf |pdf]])
* Repeat.Loop.1.A ([[Media:C.Repeat.Loop.1.A.20120113.pdf |pdf]])
* Work.Function.1.A ([[Media:C.Work.Function.1.A.20120117.pdf |pdf]])
* Work.Scope.1.A ([[Media:C.Work.Scope.1.A.20120117.pdf |pdf]])
* Series.Array.1.A ([[Media:Series.Array.1.A.20110718.pdf |pdf]])
* Series.Pointer.1.A ([[Media:Series.Pointer.1.A.20110719.pdf |pdf]])
* Series.Structure.1.A ([[Media:Series.Structure.1.A.20110805.pdf |pdf]])
* Data.Type.1.A ([[Media:C05.Data2.TypeCast.1.A.20130813.pdf |pdf]])
* Data.TypeCast.1.A ([[Media:Data.TypeCast.1.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Data.Operators.1.A ([[Media:Data.Operators.1.A.20110712.pdf |pdf]])
 
&lt;br&gt;

until 201107
* Intro.1.A ([[Media:Intro.1.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Control.1.A ([[Media:Control.1.A.20110706.pdf |pdf]])
* Iteration.1.A ([[Media:Iteration.1.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Function.1.A ([[Media:Function.1.A.20110705.pdf |pdf]])
* Variable.1.A ([[Media:Variable.1.A.20110708.pdf |pdf]])
* Operators.1.A ([[Media:Operators.1.A.20110712.pdf |pdf]])
* Pointer.1.A ([[Media:Pointer.1.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Pointer.2.A ([[Media:Pointer.2.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Array.1.A ([[Media:Array.1.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Type.1.A ([[Media:Type.1.A.pdf |pdf]])
* Structure.1.A ([[Media:Structure.1.A.pdf |pdf]])


go to [ [[C programming in plain view]] ]

[[Category:C programming language]]

&lt;/br&gt;</text>
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      <comment>/* Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator */ Wording</comment>
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      <text bytes="98072" sha1="4y2qh7lswjug9v62qxw6p929027nxul" xml:space="preserve">{| style=&quot;width:20%; font-size:13px;&quot; align=right

|{{../Other Topics (header)}}

|}

==Early history of the twin paradox==

{{Lorentzbox|Text={{center|Date of article creation: 9 November 2023; Last major revision: 2 March 2026}}}}

a) When was the [[:w:twin paradox]] applied to life forms and human beings?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=pes /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=during /&gt; report that {{slink||Einstein 1911-HU}} discussed the aging of living organisms, and that {{slink||Langevin 1911-HU}} and {{slink||Wiechert 1911-HU}} explicitly discussed the aging of human beings. 

:*More details in sections {{slink||Human beings in 1911|Twins from 1911 to 1920}}, including newspaper articles from 1911 written by {{slink||Lämmel 1911-HU}} and {{slink||Müller 1911-HU}} that clearly show that Einstein was the first to explicitly discuss the aging of human beings as well.

b) Who was the first to formulate the principle of maximal proper time along straight worldlines, upon which differential aging in the standard twin paradox is based?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=during /&gt; mention Langevin (1911), Laue (1911). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Maximal proper time}} with the contributions of Langevin (1911), Wiechert (1911), Study (1911), Laue (1911-13).

c) Who was the first to formulate [[w:Triangle inequality#Reversal in Minkowski space|inverse triangle inequality]] in Minkowski space, which represents the simplest version of the twin paradox?

:*See details in section {{slink||Triangle inequality}} with the contributions of Robb (1914-20), Eddington (1922), Rogers (1922).

d) Who was the first to show that any influence of proper acceleration on clocks can be neglected in the computation of the twin paradox from the viewpoint of the stay-at-home twin?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=pes /&gt; mention Einstein (1911), Laue (1913). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Negligibility of proper acceleration}} with the contributions of Einstein (1911), Wiechert (1911), Laue (1913), Lorentz (1913).

e) Who was the first to introduce the three clock/brother example that completely removes acceleration from the clock/twin paradox?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=debs /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=alizzi /&gt; date it back to Lange (1927) and Lord Halsbury (1957).

:*More details in section {{slink||Relay (three brothers) experiment}} with the contributions of Grünbaum (1911) and Wiechert (1920-22).

f) Who was the first to use acceleration as an asymmetry indicator?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref name=cuvaj group=S /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=pes /&gt; mention Langevin (1911), Einstein (1918). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Acceleration as asymmetry indicator}} with the contributions of Langevin (1911), Sommerfeld (1913), Lorentz (1913), Einstein (1914-20).

g) Who was the first to use different frame distribution as asymmetry indicator as an asymmetry indicator?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=pes /&gt; mention Laue (1911-13). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator}} with the contributions of Laue (1911-13), Bloch (1918).

h) Who was the first to describe the perspective of the traveler?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=beng /&gt; mention Langevin (1911), Lorentz (1914), Einstein (1918). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Perspective of the traveler}} with the contributions of Langevin (1911), Lorentz (1913-14), Einstein (1918), Thirring (1921).

i) Who was the first to describe a round-trip experiment in curved spacetime?

:*See section {{slink||Curved spacetime}} with the contribution of Becquerel (1922).

j) Who was the first to denote the round-trip experiment as paradoxical?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=during /&gt; point to Laue (1911).

:*See section {{slink||Paradoxical?}} for details.

k) Who was the first to misunderstand the twin paradox?

:*See section {{slink||Misunderstandings}} with the contributions of Berg (1910), Wiechert (1911), Campbell (1911/12), Gruner (1912).

==Human beings in 1911==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

![[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]] 

|-

|{{anchor|Einstein 1905}}In 1905&lt;ref name=einstein05 /&gt; he showed that a clock moving on a round-trip away from A and back along a polygonal or curved path, is retarded with respect to a clock stationary at A by approximately &lt;math&gt;\tfrac{1}{2}t(v/V)^{2}&lt;/math&gt; at reunion. For example, a clock on the equator is retarded with respect to a clock on the pole. He described this consequence as being &quot;peculiar&quot; (German: eigentümlich).

{{anchor|Einstein 1911-HU}}In a lecture given on January 1911&lt;ref name=einstein11a /&gt; (published in November), he extended this &quot;funny&quot; (German: drollig) experiment to living organisms:

{| 

! width=55% | Einstein wrote

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Wenn wir z. B. einen lebenden Organismus in eine Schachtel hineinbrächten und ihn dieselbe Hin- und Herbewegung ausführen lassen wie vorher die Uhr, so könnte man es erreichen, dass dieser Organismus nach einem beliebig langen Fluge beliebig wenig geändert wieder an seinen ursprünglichen Ort zurückkehrt, während ganz entsprechend beschaffene Organismen, welche an den ursprünglichen Orten ruhend geblieben sind, bereits längst neuen Generationen Platz gemacht haben. Für den bewegten Organismus war die lange Zeit der Reise nur ein Augenblick, falls die Bewegung annähernd mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit erfolgte!

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |For example, if we put a living organism in a box and make it undergo the same back and forth movement as the clock before, we could achieve that this organism returns to its original location with arbitrary little change after a flight of arbitrary length, whereas completely identical organisms that remained at rest in the original location have long since made room for new generations. To the moving organism, the long journey was only a moment if the movement happened close to the speed of light!

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Two participants of that lecture, {{slink||Lämmel 1911-HU}} and {{slink||Müller 1911-HU}}, report that Einstein also talked about the aging of ''human beings''.}}

|-

!{{anchor|Lämmel 1911-HU}}[[w:Rudolf Lämmel|Lämmel]]

|-

|He attended Einstein's 1911 lecture and gave a popular report about it in the Swiss newspaper &quot;[[w:Neue Zürcher Zeitung|Neue Zürcher Zeitung]]&quot; published on 28 April 1911,&lt;ref name=lammel /&gt; including additional details. Regarding the round-trip clock experiment he wrote:

{| 

! width=50% | Lämmel wrote

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Bewegt sich eine Uhr mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit längs einer Geraden, auf der gerichtete Uhren stehen, so scheint die bewegte Uhr, beurteilt vom Standpunkt der ruhenden aus, im oben stizzierten Sinn, stillzustehen. Kehrt die Uhr, nach einem Ruck, mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit wieder zurück zur Zentral-Uhr, so ist, nach Einstein, für den Beobachter bei der Zentral-Uhr die Sache so, als ob ein mit der bewegten Uhr mitgeführter Beobachter (samt dessen Uhr) nicht gealtert hätte. Hinge also des letzteren Alter von den Angaben des ruhenden Beobachters ab, so könnte der von einer großen Reise ins Weltall zurückkehrende Beobachter bei der Zentral-Uhr spätere Generationen antreffen – er selber hätte nicht gealtert. Welche Bedeutung diese ''ad absurdum'' geführte Gedankenspielerei etwa hat, läßt sich heute nicht absehen – vielleicht, ja wahrscheinlich ist sie ohne jeden Einfluß auf die tatsächlichen Verhältnisse. Aber man sieht dabei immerhin, daß die Physik imstande ist, die kühnsten Träume der Phantasie noch – zu überbieten.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Let a clock be moving at speed of light along a line on which regulated clocks are standing, then the moving clock's hand appears to be standing still (in the sense described above) as judged from the standpoint of the resting one. If the clock, after one jolt, comes back with light speed to the central clock, then according to Einstein the matter presents itself to the observer at the central clock, as if the observer comoving with the clock (together with his clock itself) hasn't been grown older. Thus if the age of the latter would depend on the indications of the resting observer, the observer returning from a great journey into space could meet later generations at the central-clock – he himself hasn't been grown older. The importance of this play of thought led ''ad absurdum'' cannot be seen today – maybe, or even probably, it is without any influence on the actual situations. Though at least one can see that physics is able to – surpass – even the boldest dreams and fantasies.

|}

Lämmel in December 1920 (published 1921)&lt;ref name=lammel2 /&gt; again alluded to Einstein's lectures in Zürich (possibly the one from 1911, and maybe also later ones), describing a discussion between himself and Einstein. After Einstein concluded that the travelers who came back after their journey will probably meet their former contemporaries as old men while they themselves could have been away for only a few years, Lämmel objected that this conclusion is only drawn with respect to rods and clocks, but not with respect to living beings. Einstein responded though, that all processes in the blood, in the nerves etc. are eventually periodical oscillations, i.e. motions. Yet to any such motion the relativity principle applies, thus the conclusion regarding the unevenly rapid aging it permissive.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=While the official publication of Einstein's January lecture ({{slink||Einstein 1911-HU}}) mentions the aging of organisms, Lämmel recalls the reference to the aging of a human space traveler (&quot;observer returning from a great journey into space&quot;). This means that Einstein was the first to use human beings in the clock/twin paradox on January 16 which was first published by Lämmel on April 28, 1911. In comparison, {{slink||Langevin 1911-HU}} used space travelers in a lecture on April 10 with publication in July, and {{slink||Wiechert 1911-HU}} used space travelers in lectures held between March 25 and May 23 with publication in July/September. It seems very unlikely that before April 28, Lämmel became somehow aware of the content of Langevin's or Wiechert's lectures held a few weeks earlier, in order to use them in his description of Einstein's lecture.}}

|-

!{{anchor|Langevin 1911-HU}}[[w:Paul Langevin|Langevin]]

|-

|On 10 April 1911, published July 1911,&lt;ref name=langevin1 /&gt; he held a now famous lecture popularizing the clock/twin paradox which he derived from the proper time integral as described in {{slink||Langevin 1911-PT}}. He demonstrated that a moving radioactive sample of radium is less evolved and less aged and therefore more active at return then the ones that remained in the laboratory. He also used light signals and the Doppler effect to visualize the effect. The most famous part concerned his description of the aging of human space travelers:

{| 

! width=50% | Langevin wrote

! [[:s:Translation:The Evolution of Space and Time|English Wikisource translation]]

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Cette remarque fournit le moyen, à celui d’entre nous qui voudrait y consacrer deux années de sa vie, de savoir ce que sera la Terre dans deux cents ans, d’explorer l’avenir de la Terre en faisant dans la vie de celle-ci un saut en avant qui pour elle durera deux siècles et pour lui durera deux ans, mais ceci sans espoir de retour, sans possibilité de venir nous informer du résultat de son voyage puisque toute tentative du même genre ne pourrait que le transporter de plus en plus avant.

Il suffirait pour cela que notre voyageur consente à s’enfermer dans un projectile que la Terre lancerait avec une vitesse suffisamment voisine de celle de la lumière, quoique inférieure, ce qui est physiquement possible, en s’arrangeant pour qu’une rencontre, avec une étoile par exemple, se produise au bout d’une année de la vie du voyageur et le renvoie vers la Terre avec la même vitesse. Revenu à la Terre ayant vieilli de deux ans, il sortira de son arche et trouvera notre globe vieilli de deux cents ans si sa vitesse est restée dans l’intervalle inférieure d’un vingt-millième seulement à la vitesse de la lumière. Les faits expérimentaux les plus sûrement établis de la physique nous permettent d’affirmer qu’il en serait bien ainsi.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |This remark provides the means for any among us who wants to devote two years of his life, to find out what the Earth will be in two hundred years, and to explore the future of the Earth, by making in his life a jump ahead that will last two centuries for Earth and for him it will last two years, but without hope of return, without possibility of coming to inform us of the result of his voyage, since any attempt of the same kind could only transport him increasingly further.

For this it is sufficient that our traveler consents to be locked in a projectile that would be launched from Earth with a velocity sufficiently close to that of light but lower, which is physically possible, while arranging an encounter with, for example, a star that happens after one year of the traveler's life, and which sends him back to Earth with the same velocity. Returned to Earth he has aged two years, then he leaves his ark and finds our world two hundred years older, if his velocity remained in the range of only one twenty-thousandth less than the velocity of light. The most established experimental facts of physics allow us to assert that this would actually be so.

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Reading his lecture in full, one finds the word &quot;paradoxical&quot; only in relation to the constancy of light speed, not on relation to the round-trip clock experiment.}}

|-

!{{anchor|Wiechert 1911-HU}}[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]

|-

|In lectures on 25 March and 23 May 1911, submitted July and published September 1911,&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt; he described the round-trip clock experiment with two equal clocks regulated to the same rate and brought to the same pointer position, or by introducing the same chemical process two times, or by introducing ''two life forms that began their life at the same time''. At the end of his paper he applied this to human travelers:

{|

! width=50% | Wiechert wrote

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Nehmen wir aber wieder eine Relativgeschwindigkeit an, die bis auf 3 Proz. der Lichtgeschwindigkeit nahekommt, dann wird das Verhältnis der empfundenen Zeitlängen wie 4:1. Das Bild mag etwas weiter noch ausgemalt werden. Denken wir uns, daß ein Beobachter durch den Raum unseres Sternhimmels mit dieser Geschwindigkeit in einer Kreisbahn mit einem Radius von 16 Lichtjahren fährt, dann wird er nach unserer Zeitrechnung nach je 100 Jahren wieder an unserem Sonnensystem vorüberkommen. In seinem Gefährt wird dabei die Zentrifugalkraft so auf ihn einwirken, daß sie gemäß den Relativitätsgesetzen der Einwirkung der Schwerkraft auf uns Erdenbewohner gleich erscheint. Es sind also die wirkenden Kräfte nur so groß, daß der Phantasie die Möglichkeit geboten wird, den Reisenden als menschliches Wesen zu denken. Da hier dauernd &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; ist, fließt die Eigenzeit für den Reisenden viermal langsamer dahin, als für die Bewohner der Gestirne. Wenn er also nach 100 unserer Jahre wieder zu unserem Sonnensystem zurückkehrt, wird er sich selbst nur um 25 Jahre gealtert fühlen. Erreicht er nach der Entwicklung seines Körpers und nach seiner Zeitempfindung ein Alter von 75 Jahren, so entspricht dies doch einer dreimaligen Wiederkehr zu unserem Sonnensystem, also 300 unserer Erdenjahre.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Yet if we again assume a relative velocity approximating the speed of light by 3 percent, then the ratio of the experienced duration of time becomes 4:1. This image can be further extended. Let's imagine that an observer travels with that velocity on a circular path at a radius of 16 light years through the space of our galaxy, then according to our time calculation he passes by our solar system every 100 years. In his vehicle the centrifugal force will act on him in such a way, that in accordance with the relativity laws it will appear to be equal to the force of gravity acting upon the inhabitants of Earth. Thus the acting forces are only thus big, in order to give our fantasy the possibility to imagine the traveler as a human being. Since we have &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; throughout, proper time flows four times slower for the traveler than for the inhabitants of the stars. Thus when he comes back to our solar system after 100 of our years, he will feel to have aged only by about 25 years. If he reaches an age of 75 years according to the development of his body and his own time experience, then this corresponds to a threefold return to our solar system, i.e. 300 of our Earth years.

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=a) Wiechert (1915)&lt;ref name=wiechert15 /&gt; later provided a short historical survey of the clock/twin paradox. He referred to the fact that already {{slink||Einstein 1905}} considered the case of two clocks (&quot;Einstein's clock experiment&quot;), and even though [[w:Hermann Minkowski|Minkowski]] himself didn't consider the case, his proper time formula provides the result in a straight forward manner. The latter was done by himself in lectures on 25 March and 23 May 1911, as well as by Langevin published in July 1911. Wiechert pointed out that he himself and Langevin used &quot;humorist&quot; examples in order to clarify the situation: While Wiechert argued that one has to make a journey in order to stay young, Langevin argued that one has to romp about in a laboratory in order to stay young. Both of them used human beings, arguing that their physical and mental life should have been influenced in the same way as any other process in nature.

b) The dates given by Wiechert (1915) are not complete. The correct ones are:

*Langevin's lecture on 10 April 1911, published in July.

*Wiechert's lectures on 25 March and 23 May 1911, submitted on July 26, published in September.

*He was still unaware of Einstein's lecture from January 1911, published in November 1911.}}

|-

!{{anchor|Müller 1911-HU}}[[w:Fritz Müller-Partenkirchen|Müller]]

|-

|The freelance writer and law student Fritz Müller (who was later known as [[w:Fritz Müller-Partenkirchen|Müller-Partenkirchen]]) attended Einstein's lecture and wrote a popular report about it in the German newspaper &quot;[[w:Berliner Tageblatt|Berliner Tageblatt]]&quot; on 16th and 23rd October 1911,&lt;ref name=muller /&gt; in which he gave further details (compare with {{slink||Lämmel 1911-HU}}). Regarding the clock/twin paradox he wrote:

{| 

! width=50% | Müller wrote

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Zwei gleichgehende Uhren sollen je einen Beobachter haben und nebeneinander ruhen. Nun soll die eine mit ihrem Beobachter plötzlich mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit in den Weltenraum hinausreisen. Vorher haben die beiden vereinbart, sich alle Sekunden mit einem Lichtsignal die Zeit zu telegraphieren. [...] In unserem Grenzfall, wo die Reise mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit vor sich geht, müßte der ruhende Beobachter erklären, jene andere Uhr käme in der Zeit überhaupt nicht voran. Die Zeit stünde dort still. Tatsächlich kommen die Einsteinschen Gleichungen zu diesem Resultat. Für den mit der Uhr reisenden Beobachter, sagt Einstein, gelte dasselbe. Das heißt, im Urteil des Zurückbleibenden würde jener niemals alt. „Und wenn er auf einer gebrochenen Reiselinie wieder an seinen Ausgangspunkt zurückkehrte?&quot; fragt man den Vortragenden in der Diskussion. – „So bliebe er in unserem Urteil so jung wie bei der Ausreise,&quot; erwidert Einstein mit vollem Ernst, „selbst wenn wir Zurückgebliebenen inzwischen Männer mit weißen Bärten geworden sind – die Gleichungen liefern für jede Richtung der Bewegung, auch für eine gebrochene Bewegung, unerschütterlich die selben Resultate.&quot; – Wir sehen einander an. Das klingt märchenhaft. Märchenhaft? Gewiß, die alten Märchen vom Mönch von Heisterbach, vom Rip van Winkle, von Urashima Taro steigen auf. Merkwürdig, wie die Volksphantasie bei den Deutschen, bei den Amerikanern, bei den Japanern in der gleichen Richtung gearbeitet hat – alle drei Märchen erzählen ja von Leuten, deren Leben still steht, viele hundert Jahre lang, während die andern altern. So fanden sie bei ihrer Rückkehr ein anderes Land und eine andere Generation.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Two synchronous clocks at rest next to each other, shall each be accompanied by an observer. Now one of them, together with its observer, suddenly travels into space at the speed of light. Previously, both have arranged that every second they telegraph their time to each other using light signals. [...] In our limiting case where the journey happens at light speed, the resting observer would have to declare that the other clock would not proceed in time at all. Time would stand still at this place. Einstein's equations indeed produce this result. As to the observer traveling with the clock, says Einstein, the same is true. That means in the judgment of the remaining one, the other one would never become old. Then the lecturer [i.e. Einstein] was asked in the discussion: &quot;And if he comes back to his starting point on a curved travel path?&quot;, to which Einstein replied in full earnest: &quot;Then in our judgment he would remain as young as he was at departure, even if we remaining ones became men with white beards in the meantime, the equations unshakably give the same result in every direction of motion, also for curved motion&quot;. We look at each other. That sounds fabulous. Fabulous? Of course, the old fairy tales of [[w:Heisterbach Abbey|w:The monk of Heisterbach]] or [[w:Rip Van Winkle]] or [[w:Urashima Tarō]] come forward. Strange, how the folk fantasy of the Germans, the Americans, the Japanese worked in the same direction, all three fairy tales indeed tell about people whose life stands still, many hundred years long, while the other ones grow old. Thus they found another country and another generation when they returned.

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Müller's account confirms {{slink||Lämmel 1911-HU}} that Einstein indeed mentioned human beings, but his description also suggests that Einstein was the first to use mutually sent light signals. However, as this was published in October, it cannot be excluded that Müller's description of light signals was influenced by {{slink||Langevin 1911-HU}}, published in July, in which light signals were used as well.}}

|}

==Twins from 1911 to 1920==

We now provide a list of authors who employed ''twins'', i.e. ''two'' life forms or humans that initially were of ''same age'' when the round-trip began:

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Date !! Description

|-

|[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt;

|1911

|Two life forms that begin their life at the ''same time'' (German: &quot;Zwei Lebewesen [..] die ihr Leben gleichzeitig beginnen&quot;), of which the moving one returns retarded in its progression with respect to the stationary one.

|-

|[[w:Paul Gruner|Gruner]]&lt;ref name=gruner /&gt;

|1912

|Two persons of ''same age'' (French: &quot;deux personnes du même âge&quot;), of which the moving one returns less developed than stationary one.

|-

|[[w:Max von Laue|Laue]]&lt;ref name=laue3 /&gt;

|1913

|The moving life form returns younger than its ''former agemates'' (German: &quot;ehemaligen Altersgenossen&quot;).

|-

|[[w:Hermann Weyl|Weyl]]&lt;ref name=weyl /&gt;

|Easter 1918

|

{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Von zwei Zwillingsbrüdern, die sich in einem Weltpunkt A trennen, bleibe der eine in der Heimat (d. h. ruhe dauernd in einem tauglichen Bezugsraum), der andere aber unternehme Reisen, bei denen er Geschwindigkeiten (relativ zur »Heimat«) entwickelt, die der Lichtgeschwindigkeit nahekommen; dann wird sich der Reisende, wenn er dereinst in die Heimat zurückkehrt, als merklich jünger herausstellen denn der Seßhafte.

|Suppose we have two twin-brothers who take leave from one another at a world-point A, and suppose one remains at home (that is, permanently at rest in an allowable reference-space), whilst the other sets out on voyages, during which he moves with velocities (relative to “home”) that approximate to that of light. When the wanderer returns home in later years he will appear appreciably younger than the one who stayed at home. 

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Weyl was the first to ''explicitly use twins'' in relation to the round-trip experiment. The fourth edition (1920) of that book was translated from German into English and French in 1922.}}

|-

|[[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]]&lt;ref name=einstein20 /&gt;

|1920/21

|{{Anchor|Einstein 1921-TW}}

{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | Trifft A wieder bei B ein, so kann es sich ereignen, daß der beharrende Zwilling inzwischen 60 Erdjahre alt geworden ist, während der zurückkehrende nur 15 Jahre zählt, oder sich gar noch im Säuglingsstadium befindet. [..] Bei diesen Zwillingen, erklärte Einstein, haben wir zunächst eine ''Gefühls -Paradoxie'' vor uns. Eine ''Denk-Paradoxie'' würde indeß nur dann vorliegen, wenn sich für das Verhalten der beiden Geschöpfe kein zureichender Grund anführen ließe. 

|If A then returns to B, it may happen that the twin who stayed at home is now sixty years old, whereas the wanderer is only fifteen years of age, or is perhaps only an infant still. [..] In the case of these two twins, Einstein declared, we have merely a paradox of ''feeling''. It would be a paradox of ''thought'' only if no sufficient ground could be suggested for the behaviour of these two creatures. 

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=This was based on an interview of Einstein by Moszkowski. While the expression &quot;clock paradox&quot; was used since 1911/12 (see section {{slink||Paradoxical?}}), this seems to be the first time that it was rebranded as &quot;twin paradox&quot;. The copyright mark indicates 1920, while the title page indicates 1921. The translation from German into English also appeared in 1921.}}

|}

==Maximal proper time==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|[[w:Paul Langevin|Langevin]]

1911

|{{anchor|Langevin 1911-PT}}In April 1911 (published July),&lt;ref name=langevin1 /&gt; he described the round-trip experiment without formulas using two portions of matter present at two events happening at the same place. The ''integration of proper time'' along the entire wordlines shows that the portion of matter that starts a closed cycle by receding and finally coming back, will have a ''smaller proper time'' than the one that stayed behind.

In October 1911 (published 1912),&lt;ref name=langevin2 /&gt; Langevin again showed that the portion of matter that described a closed cycle will have a ''smaller proper time'' &lt;math&gt;R&lt;/math&gt; than the one that stayed in an inertial frame, which is defined by the equation:

:&lt;math&gt;\begin{matrix}V^{2}\left(t-t_{0}\right)^{2}=d^{2}-R\\
\left[d^{2}=\left(x-x_{0}\right)^{2}+\left(y-y_{0}\right)^{2}+\left(z-z_{0}\right)^{2}\right]
\end{matrix}&lt;/math&gt; 

|-

|[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt;

Lectures March-May 1911

submitted July

published September

|{{anchor|Wiechert 1911-PT}}Let two equal processes be observed in two equal material systems colocated in two moments (1) and (2), and let there velocities have been changed in arbitrarily different ways in the meantime. It follows that the ratio of advancement of those processes is given by the two intervals &lt;math&gt;\Delta\tau &lt;/math&gt; of their respective ''proper times''. He concluded that any round-trip clock experiment can be easily comprehended from that theorem by computation. The corresponding integral is:

:&lt;math&gt;\Delta\tau=\int_{1}^{2}d\tau=\int_{1}^{2}dt\sqrt{1-\frac{\mathfrak{v}^{2}}{c^{2}}}&lt;/math&gt; 

|-

|[[w:Eduard Study|Study]]&lt;ref name=study /&gt;

June 1911

|Minkowski's concept of worldlines implies that the straight path between two points of the same worldline is the ''longest'' among all paths between those points, if the path length on a worldline is defined by the related proper time.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Study's book was purely mathematical without mentioning clocks or the round-trip experiment, alluding to his result only in a footnote.}}

|-

|[[w:Max von Laue|Laue]]

1911-13

|{{anchor|Laue 1911/12-PT}}In December 1911 (published 1912),&lt;ref name=laue1 /&gt; Laue showed without formulas that the round-trip experiment is represented by a curved worldline, which at worldpoint A decomposes into a row of curves, after which all of them will be re-united at worldpoint B to a single line. Of all curves connecting the points A and B having time-like direction throughout, the straight connection has the ''longest proper time.''

{{anchor|Laue 1912/13-PT}}In December 1912 (published 1913) in the second edition of this relativity book,&lt;ref name=laue1 /&gt; Laue described the proper time integral between events 1 and 2 of a slowly accelerated clock covering a broken line and a stationary clock covering a straight worldline. Of all worldlines covering 1 and 2, the straight line has the ''longest proper time''. Therefore the traveling clock in the round-trip experiment is retarded at reunion, because its curved worldline corresponds to a shorter proper time. This result he presented in terms of the following inequality, of which the right-hand side refers to the straight curve of the stationary clock, while all others possible curves are represented on left-hand side:

:&lt;math&gt;\tfrac{1}{c}\int_{1}^{2}\sqrt{du^{2}-\left(dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2}\right)}&lt;\tfrac{1}{c}\int_{1}^{2}du&lt;/math&gt; 

{{Lorentzbox|Text={{anchor|Sommerfeld 1913-PT}}Similar treatments can be found in the textbooks of [[w:Arnold Sommerfeld|Sommerfeld]] (1913),&lt;ref name=sommerfeld /&gt; [[w:Hermann Weyl|Weyl]] (1918),&lt;ref name=weyl /&gt; [[w:Wolfgang Pauli|Pauli]] (1921),&lt;ref name=pauli /&gt; [[w:August Kopff|Kopff]] (1921),&lt;ref name=kopff /&gt; [[w:Jean Becquerel|Becquerel]] (1922).&lt;ref name=becqu1 /&gt;}}

|}

==Triangle inequality==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|valign=top|[[w:Alfred Robb|Robb]]

1914-1920

|{{anchor|Robb 1914-TR}}In 1914&lt;ref name=robb1 /&gt; he showed that there are three types of triangles formed by intervals in Minkowski space, depending on whether one deals with &quot;separation lines&quot; (spacelike intervals), &quot;optical lines&quot; (lightlike intervals), or &quot;inertia lines&quot; (timelike intervals representing the path of nonaccelerated particles defined by &lt;math&gt;{\scriptstyle \left(x_{1}-x_{0}\right)^{2}+\left(y_{1}-y_{0}\right)^{2}+\left(z_{1}-z_{0}\right)^{2}-c^{2}\left(t_{1}-t_{0}\right)^{2}&lt;0}&lt;/math&gt;). As to a triangle formed by inertia lines, he showed that the sum of a certain two sides is ''less'' than that of the third one. 

{{Lorentzbox|Text=So the triangle inequality derived from time-like intervals in Minkowski space is ''[[w:Triangle inequality#Reversal in Minkowski space|inverse]]'' to the inequality in Euclidean space. This inverse inequality directly represents the most simple variant of the twin paradox: the traveler follows two sides of the time-triangle, while the stay-at-home observer follows the third side indicating maximal proper time.}}

[[File:RobbTriangle.svg|right|150px]]
In 1920&lt;ref name=robb2 /&gt; Robb gave a numerical example of the triangle ABC with time-like intervals (&quot;inertia lines&quot;) defined by coordinates

:&lt;math&gt;\begin{matrix} &amp; x &amp; y &amp; z &amp; t\\
A\  &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0\\
B\  &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 10\\
C\  &amp; 4 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 5
\end{matrix}&lt;/math&gt; 

which he plugged into 

:&lt;math&gt;\bar{s}^{2}=\left(t_{1}-t_{0}\right)^{2}-\left(x_{1}-x_{0}\right)^{2}-\left(y_{1}-y_{0}\right)^{2}-\left(z_{1}-z_{0}\right)^{2}&lt;/math&gt; 

from which he obtained the sides AB=10, AC=3, CB=3 and the inequality &lt;math&gt;AC+CB&lt;AB&lt;/math&gt;.

|-

|[[w:Arthur Eddington|Eddington]]&lt;ref name=edding2 /&gt;

1922

|He distinguished between the &quot;space-triangle&quot; for spacelike intervals, and the &quot;time-triangle&quot; for time-like intervals. The latter is measured with a clock from A to B and from B to C, with the sum of those readings ''is always less'' than the reading of a clock measuring directly from A to C. In the ordinary space-triangle any two sides are together greater than the third side; in the time-triangle two sides are together ''less'' than the third side. 

|-

|Rogers&lt;ref name=rogers /&gt;

1922

|He showed that the &quot;pure time-triangle&quot; C, A, B (in their proper time order) satisfies the relation &lt;math&gt;\cosh C=\tfrac{\alpha^{2}+\beta^{2}-\gamma^{2}}{2\alpha\beta}&lt;/math&gt;, where &lt;math&gt;\cosh C&lt;/math&gt; denotes the unit-scalar product of the vectors CA, CB, and &lt;math&gt;\alpha,\beta,\gamma &lt;/math&gt; the real and positive intervals BC, CA, AB. Since &lt;math&gt;\alpha&gt;\beta &lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;\cosh C&gt;1&lt;/math&gt;, it follows that &lt;math&gt;\alpha&gt;\beta+\gamma &lt;/math&gt;. That is, &quot;the greatest side of pure time-triangle is greater than the sum of the other two sides&quot;. It follows at once that the stationary value of the proper time integral is an &quot;absolute maximum&quot;.

|}

==Negligibility of proper acceleration==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|valign=top |[[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]]

1905-1918


|In 1905,&lt;ref name=einstein05 /&gt; Einstein used velocity time dilation &lt;math&gt;\tau=t\sqrt{1-\left(\frac{v}{V}\right)^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; to derive the retardation of a clock performing a round-trip with constant speed &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; along a polygonal path or a continuously curved line, without mentioning any influence of acceleration at turnaround.

{{anchor|Einstein 1911-VA}} In 1911 (published 1912),&lt;ref name=einstein3 /&gt; Einstein said that special relativity doesn't say anything about what happened to the clock's pointer position during the acceleration that changes the clock's direction along the round-trip, yet the influence of this change must be getting smaller the longer the clock ''is moving uniformly'', i.e. the longer one chooses the dimensions of the path.

{{anchor|Einstein 1912-VA}}In an unpublished manuscript on special relativity from 1912,&lt;ref name=einst12manu /&gt; he pointed out that any influence of acceleration during the round-trip experiment, can be neglected if one makes the time of acceleration negligible with respect to the total time of motion along the polygonal path. 

{{anchor|Einstein 1914a-VA}}In a letter from April 1914,&lt;ref name=einstpetz /&gt; Einstein showed that any ''finite'' acceleration at turnaround during the round-trip experiment can only influence the clock in a ''finite'' way, thus it can be neglected by minimizing the time of acceleration with respect to the time of uniform translation. So it ''must be concluded'' that the clock is retarded at reunion after traveling on a polygonal path.

{{anchor|Einstein 1914b-VA}}During a conversation in May 1914,&lt;ref name=rowe group=S /&gt; Einstein is reported to have replied that the accelerations during the round-trip are &quot;irrelevant for the amount of the time difference&quot;. (Compare with {{slink||Einstein 1914b-AC}}) 

{{anchor|Einstein 1918-VA}}In his famous &quot;Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity&quot; from 1918,&lt;ref name=einstein18 /&gt; Einstein pointed out that any effect of velocity changes at turnaround must be limited, thus the traveling clock must be retarded at reunion due to time dilation if one makes the path AB and back along the round-trip long enough. (Compare with {{slink||Einstein 1918-AC}})

|-

|[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt;

1911

|{{Anchor|Wiechert 1911-VA}}[[File:WiechertTwin.svg|110px|right]] He demonstrated that differential aging along the round-trip cannot be caused during the passage from one velocity to another (i.e. acceleration) at turnaround, because the same result also follows when ''both'' A and B experience the ''same velocity changes'' with respect to another frame, only with the difference that B has relative velocities &lt;math&gt;+u&lt;/math&gt;  and &lt;math&gt;-u&lt;/math&gt; for a long time, while A is brought after a short time from relative velocity &lt;math&gt;+u&lt;/math&gt; to relative rest at which it remains a long time, and then it is brought to relative velocity &lt;math&gt;-u&lt;/math&gt;  for a short time.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=He was probably the first to use an example in which both accelerate with same magnitude.}}

|-

|[[w:Max von Laue|Laue]]&lt;ref name=laue3 /&gt;

1913

|{{anchor|Laue 1913-VA}}He showed that the problem of the influence of acceleration at turnaround in the round-trip experiment, can be eliminated by ''arbitrarily'' enlarging the time in inertial motion.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=This is the same argument as given in {{slink||Einstein 1911-VA}}. The Einstein-Laue argument was also used by others such as [[w:Hans Thirring|Thirring]] (1921)&lt;ref name=thirring /&gt; or [[w:Max Born|Born]] (1921).&lt;ref name=born /&gt;}}

|-

|[[w:Hendrik Lorentz|Lorentz]]&lt;ref name=lorentz1 /&gt;

1913

|He pointed out that any effect of acceleration on the traveling clock at turnaround, can be separated from the time dilation effect since only the latter depends on the distance traversed along the round-trip.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Similarly, [[w:Wolfgang Pauli|Pauli]] (1921) stated that the arising infinitesimal accelerations at turnaround are certainly independent of the total travel time and ''therefore easy to eliminate''.&lt;ref name=pauli /&gt;}}
|}

==Relay (three brothers) experiment==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|[[w:de:Fritz Grünbaum (Physiker)|Grünbaum]]&lt;ref name=gbaum /&gt;

1911

|He discussed a one-way time dilation experiment in which the first clock is set into motion from the origin and then moving to the second clock. He argued that one can avoid the problem of acceleration experienced by the first clock when set into motion, by replacing it with a ''third'' clock that is already in motion with constant velocity and is synchronized at the origin with the first clock.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=While Grünbaum didn't discuss round-trip experiments, his introduction of a third clock in order to avoid acceleration is the basis of the three-brother experiment.}}

|-

|valign=top|[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]

1920-1922

|In 1920 (published 1921),&lt;ref name=wiechert20 /&gt; Wiechert explained how to completely remove acceleration from the round-trip experiment: Bodies A, B, C move undisturbed and non-accelerated in different directions. A and B pass each other at time (1), B and C pass each other at a later time (2), and C and A finally pass each other at an even later time (3). So in this setup, the condition of C is the continuation of the condition of B. On any of the three bodies one can count the oscillations of light of a certain spectral-line, in which case relativity predicts that the ''combined sum of all oscillations'' on B+C is smaller than the number of oscillations on A alone. Wiechert also held that one can replace the light oscillations by the life functions of human-like beings which live on A, B and C. For instance, while the inhabitants of B+C only had time for one meal, there were arbitrarily many generations on A who follow after each other by death and birth.

[[File:Wiechert1922a.png|180px|right]]
In 1921 (published 1922),&lt;ref name=wiechert21 /&gt; Wiechert extended his previous acceleration-free round-trip experiment to an arbitrary number of non-accelerated bodies &lt;math&gt;B_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, &lt;math&gt;B_{2}&lt;/math&gt;, ..., which constitutes a &quot;relay&quot; (German: Stafette) starting from body A and back again. The first B passes A and moves away, and after some time the last B comes back to A. Since any B body continues the fate of the previous one, all bodies &lt;math&gt;B_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, &lt;math&gt;B_{2}&lt;/math&gt;, ..., combined have emitted fewer oscillations than A alone during the relay race. Wiechert pointed out that instead of light oscillations one can also choose the aging of life forms.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Such relay experiments were later independently rediscovered in English language papers&lt;ref name=debs group=S /&gt; such as by Lange (1927)&lt;ref group=S name=lange /&gt; in which the brothers synchronize their times when they pass each other (“three brother experiment”).}}
|}

==Acceleration as asymmetry indicator==

While it was known that any direct influence of [[w:proper acceleration]] on clocks can be neglected in the computation of the inertial frame of the stay-at-home twin (see previous section {{slink||Negligibility of proper acceleration}}), the very fact that only one of them is accelerating is still useful as an asymmetry argument in order to show that there is no contradiction to the relativity principle.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|[[w:Paul Langevin|Langevin]]&lt;ref name=langevin1 /&gt;

1911

|{{Anchor|Langevin 1911-AC}}He derived differential aging in the round-trip experiment using the proper time integral along worldlines (see {{slink||Langevin 1911-PT}}) and used acceleration as an asymmetry indicator: The result of the round-trip experiment is &quot;another example of the absolute character of acceleration&quot; in which the &quot;asymmetry occurred because only the traveler, in the middle of his journey, has undergone an acceleration that changes the direction of his velocity&quot;. 

|-

|[[w:Arnold Sommerfeld|Sommerfeld]]&lt;ref name=sommerfeld /&gt;

1913

|After he showed (see {{slink||Sommerfeld 1913-PT}}) that retardation of time in the round-trip experiment derived from the proper time integral rests on the assumption that the clock's rate ''only depends on its momentary velocity'' (now called &quot;clock hypothesis&quot;), he used acceleration as an asymmetry indicator: There is no contradiction to the relativity principle since one of the clocks has to be accelerated in order to come back, thus the retardation in the round-trip experiment does not demonstrate &quot;motion&quot;, but &quot;accelerated motion&quot;.

|-

|[[w:Hendrik Lorentz|Lorentz]]

1913&lt;ref name=lorentz1 /&gt;

|After he derived differential aging in the round-trip experiment from velocity time dilation and pointed out the negligibility of proper acceleration for the computation, he used acceleration as an asymmetry indicator: There is no contradiction to the relativity principle, since one of them changes velocity and accelerates; the relativity principle does not require symmetry between inertial and non-inertial observers.

|-

|valign=top|[[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]]

1914-1920

|{{anchor|Einstein 1914b-AC}} During a conversation in 1914,&lt;ref name=rowe group=S /&gt; Einstein is reported to have said that moving clock B is retarded because it was accelerating in contrast to clock A; while those accelerations are ''irrelevant'' for the ''amount'' of the time difference, their ''presence'' nevertheless cause B to fall behind (&quot;accelerated motions are absolute&quot;).

{{anchor|Einstein 1918-AC}}In his famous &quot;Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity&quot; from 1918&lt;ref name=einstein18 /&gt;, Einstein pointed out the negligibility of velocity changes from the viewpoint of an inertial frame (see {{slink||Einstein 1918-VA}}). Then he used ''acceleration as an asymmetry indicator'' in order to show, that there is no contradiction to the relativity principle, because relativity only predicts the equivalence of non-accelerated inertial frames: &quot;only K is such a frame while K' is temporarily accelerated, thus the retardation of U2 with respect to U1 cannot be used to construe a contradiction against the theory.&quot; 

{{anchor|Einstein 1920-AC}}Einstein is reported to have said in an interview from 1920:&lt;ref name=einstein20 /&gt;
{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Bei diesen Zwillingen, erklärte Einstein, haben wir zunächst eine ''Gefühls-Paradoxie'' vor uns. Eine ''Denk-Paradoxie'' würde indeß nur dann vorliegen, wenn sich für das Verhalten der beiden Geschöpfe kein zureichender Grund anführen ließe. Dieser Grund für das Jüngerbleiben des A ergibt sich vom Gesichtspunkt der speziellen Relativitätstheorie aus der Tatsache, daß das betreffende Geschöpf — und nur dieses — Beschleunigungen erlitten hat.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |In the case of these two twins,&quot; Einstein declared, &quot;we have merely a paradox of ''feeling''. It would be a paradox of ''thought'' only if no sufficient ground could be suggested for the behaviour of these two creatures . This ground, which counts for the comparative youth of A, is given, from the point of view of the special theory of relativity, by the fact that the creature in question, and only this creature, has been subject to accelerations.&quot;
|}

In a discussion from 1922,&lt;ref name=morand /&gt; Einstein is reported to have said that there is no contradiction in the round-trip experiment (in terms of a train leaving the station and returning later): The relativity principle is not applicable to this case, because the train is not in a Galilean system (i.e. inertial frame) any longer during the period of velocity change at turnaround, i.e. the ensemble of two frames having velocities in opposite direction is not an inertial frame. There is no reciprocity between a frame that changes direction and one that doesn't.

|}

==Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator==

Because any direct influence of proper acceleration on the traveling clock at turnaround can be neglected (see {{slink||Negligibility of proper acceleration}}), the importance of {{slink||Acceleration as asymmetry indicator}} is limited to the mere fact that it reveals that only the traveler was in a non-inertial frame as only he changed his inertial frames, thus instead of emphasizing the occurrence of proper acceleration at turnaround, it's possible to describe the asymmetry more geometrically by emphasizing the different distribution of inertial frames of the twins along their worldlines.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|valign=top|[[w:Max von Laue|Laue]]

1911-1913

|{{Anchor|Laue 1911/12-VA}} In 1911/12,&lt;ref name=laue1 /&gt; he pointed out that during the time of separation, that clock is most advanced which was at rest in an inertial frame all the time; namely there is ''always one, and only one inertial frame'', in which the locations of separation and re-encounter lie in the same geometric point. He clarified this fact by alluding to different paths in spacetime (compare with {{slink||Laue 1911/12-PT}}).

In 1912/13,&lt;ref name=laue2 /&gt; he argued that in the round-trip experiment, we indeed can decide, which one of the clocks was steadily at rest in one and the same reference system, and which one was in the meantime at rest in two or more such systems. Among them there is of course a real physical difference. He clarified this fact by alluding to different paths in spacetime (compare with {{slink||Laue 1912/13-PT}}).

In 1913&lt;ref name=laue3 /&gt; Laue pointed out:

{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | Aber nach unseren Voraussetzungen ruht während der Zeit der Trennung die erste Uhr in ''einem'' berechtigten Bezugssystem, die zweite hingegen ruht zwar sowohl bei der Hin- wie bei der Rückbewegung in berechtigten Bezugssystemen, aber notwendig in ''zwei verschiedenen. Deshalb'' unterscheiden sich beider Schicksale physikalisch. Ließe man die zweite Uhr in der ihr anfangs erteilten Bewegung und schickte man ihr dafür die erste Uhr nach einiger Zeit mit größerer Geschwindigkeit nach, so würde beim Zusammentreffen die erste gegen die zweite zurückgeblieben sein; denn jetzt hat die erste während der Trennung in zwei verschiedenen Systemen geruht. (Footnote: Dem naheliegenden Einwand, daß wir über den Gang einer Uhr während eines Geschwindigkeits''wechsels'' nichts aussagen können, begegnet man am einfachsten mit dem Hinweis, daß man die Zeiten der gleichförmigen Bewegung ''beliebig'' groß gegen die der Beschleunigung machen kann.)

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | However, by our presuppositions, one clock is at rest in ''one'' valid reference system during the time of separation, while the second one is at rest in valid reference systems both during the forward- and the backward motion, but necessarily in ''two different ones. Therefore'' the two fates differ physically. If the second clock remains in the motion which was given to it at the start, and if after some time it is followed by the first clock by a greater velocity, then the first one would be retarded with respect to the second one at the encounter; since now it was the first one that was at rest in two different systems during the separation. (Footnote: The objection which is near at hand, that we cannot say anything about the rate of a clock during a velocity ''change'', can be met most simply by the allusion, that we can render the times of uniform motion ''arbitrarily'' great with respect to acceleration..)
|}

|-

|[[w:Werner Bloch|Bloch]]&lt;ref name=bloch /&gt;

September 1918

|{{anchor|Bloch 1918-VA}} He represented the frames with three movable slots K, K' and K”, provided with hooks on which one can hang clocks at the origins of K and K'; while one clock always hangs on a hook of slot K, the other clock moved away with K' and after some time was transferred (neglecting any effect of acceleration) by a mechanical device to slot K” that moves in the other direction, by which it comes back; there is no contradiction to the relativity principle, as one clock rested in one inertial frame while the other one rested in two such frames.

|}

==Perspective of the traveler==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|[[w:Paul Langevin|Langevin]]&lt;ref name=langevin1 /&gt;

1911

|{{anchor|Langevin 1911-LI}}[[Image:rstd4.gif|170px|right]] After deriving differential aging from the proper time integral in {{slink||Langevin 1911-PT}} and using human beings in {{slink||Langevin 1911-HU}}, he described the perspectives of both observers using light signals and the Doppler effect. When they separate they see each other live 200 times slower, while at return they see each other live 200 times faster. So ''from the explorer's viewpoint'', in the first year he sees the Earth perform the actions of two days, while in the second year he sees the Earth perform the actions of two centuries. The asymmetry can be seen by noticing, that the observer on Earth in 200 years sees the explorer performs the actions of 1 year. Then the explorer turns around, after which the observer on Earth in 2 days sees the projectile perform the actions of another year.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Langevin used &lt;math&gt;v=c\left(1-\tfrac{1}{20000}\right)&lt;/math&gt;, producing Lorentz factor &lt;math&gt;\gamma\approx100&lt;/math&gt; and Doppler factor &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{\tfrac{c+v}{c-v}}\approx200&lt;/math&gt;.}}

|-

|[[w:Hendrik Lorentz|Lorentz]]

Lectures published in 1913&lt;ref name=lorentz1 /&gt;

Similar treatment in 1914&lt;ref name=lorentz3 /&gt;

|{{anchor|Lorentz 1913/14-LI}}Described the round-trip experiment in terms of inertial observer A (equipped with clock K) and traveling observer B (equipped with clock K'). In the frame of A, clock K' is retarded with respect to K at reunion due to time dilation. He then described the perspective of the traveling observer B by using two-way propagation of light from K' to K and back to K', leading to three periods defined by the moment of B's turnaround: In the first period the light signals return to K' before turnaround; in the second period the signals are emitted before turnaround and return after turnaround; in the third period emission and return of the signals are both happening after turnaround. Lorentz showed that K is time dilated by a factor of &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; with respect to K' in the first and third period, but in the second period K is ticking ''faster'' than K' by a factor of &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{\tfrac{c+v}{c-v}}&lt;/math&gt; which overcompensates the dilation in the other periods and explains, even from the perspective of B, why K' is retarded with respect to K at reunion.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=In a review of the German translation of Lorentz's book, Einstein (1914) didn't directly mention Lorentz's treatment of the twin paradox, but he wrote that nobody who is seriously interested in relativity should neglect to read that book.&lt;ref name=einstlor /&gt; [[w:Wolfgang Pauli|Pauli]] (1921) refers to Lorentz's book as one of three papers that analyze the twin paradox more closely.&lt;ref name=pauli /&gt;}}

|-

|valign=top| [[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]]

1916-1920

|{{anchor|Einstein 1916-EP}}In a lecture from 1916,&lt;ref name=einstein16 /&gt; of which only an abstract was published, Einstein spoke about the &quot;clock paradox of special relativity from the standpoint of [[w:general relativity]].&quot;

{{anchor|Einstein 1918a-EP}}In a letter from September 1918,&lt;ref name=einadl /&gt; Einstein showed that general relativity makes the inertial frame K and and the accelerated frame K' of the clocks in the round-trip experiment &quot;equally justified&quot;, explaining the time difference in K' by combining the influence of velocity and gravitational potential on clocks.

{{anchor|Einstein 1918-EP}}In his famous &quot;Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity&quot; from November 1918,&lt;ref name=einstein18 /&gt; aimed at clarifying misconceptions of the clock paradox, he explained that there is no paradox in special relativity because there is no symmetry between clock U1 at rest in inertial frame K and clock U2 at rest in accelerated frame K' (see {{slink||Einstein 1918-AC}}). Yet [[w:general relativity]] and the [[w:equivalence principle]] allow the treatment of this problem also from the standpoint of frame K', where clock U2 remains at rest all of the time while U1 makes the following movements: (1) It is accelerated by a homogeneous gravitational field in the negative direction, (2) it moves with constant velocity &lt;math&gt;-v&lt;/math&gt;, (3) it is accelerated in the positive direction until it turns around and comes by with constant velocity &lt;math&gt;+v&lt;/math&gt;, (4) it moves with velocity &lt;math&gt;+v&lt;/math&gt;, (5) it is accelerated in the negative direction until it stops. Clock U1 is retarded with respect to U2 in periods 2) and 4) due to velocity time dilation, but this retardation is overcompensated by the faster rate of U1 during period 3), because U1 is at a higher gravitational potential. He argued that the computation (which he didn't provide) shows that the advance of U1 in period 3) is double its retardation during periods 2) and 4). Einstein concluded that by this consideration &quot;the paradox is completely resolved&quot;. Using [[w:Mach's principle]], he pointed out that the gravitational field in K' might be induced by the masses of the universe that are accelerated in this frame.

{{anchor|Einstein 1918b-EP}}In a letter to Einstein from December 1918, [[w:Max Jakob|Jakob]] doubted the result that the advance in period 3) is double the retardation during periods 2) and 4). Einstein responded by letter,&lt;ref name=einstein18b /&gt; in which he used the gravitational time dilation factor &lt;math&gt;1+\Phi/c^{2}&lt;/math&gt; in K' in order to show that U1 at distance &lt;math&gt;l&lt;/math&gt; is advancing by &lt;math&gt;\Phi/c^{2}=2vl/c^{2}&lt;/math&gt; in period 3), which is indeed the double of approximated delay &lt;math&gt;vl/c^{2}&lt;/math&gt; caused by velocity time dilation during periods 2) and 4).

{{anchor|Einstein 1921-EP}}Einstein is reported to have said in an interview from 1920,&lt;ref name=einstein20 /&gt; that while acceleration explains the age difference between the stationary twin B and the traveling twin A in terms of special relativity (see {{slink||Einstein 1920-AC}}), the &quot;proper&quot; description in terms of general relativity is as follows:

{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | Eine tiefere Erfassung des Grundes ist indeß nur auf dem Boden der „Allgemeinen Relativitätstheorie&quot; zu erlangen, die uns erkennen läßt, daß von A aus beurteilt ein Zentrifugalfeld existiert, von B aus betrachtet aber nicht; und dieses Feld hat einen Einfluß auf den relativen Ablauf und die Raschheit der Lebensvorgänge.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | A proper grasp of the reason is furnished only when we adopt the general theory of relativity, which tell us that, from the point of view of A, a centrifugal field exists, whereas it is absent from the point of view of B. This field exerts an influence on the relative rate of happening of the events of life.&quot;
|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=a) Einstein's explanation was quickly adopted in the textbooks of [[w:Werner Bloch|Bloch]] (1920),&lt;ref name=bloch2 /&gt; [[w:Wolfgang Pauli|Pauli]] (1921),&lt;ref name=pauli /&gt; [[w:August Kopff|Kopff]] (1921),&lt;ref name=kopff /&gt; [[w:Karl Bollert|Bollert]] (1921),&lt;ref name=bollert1 /&gt; [[w:Max Born|Born]] (1921),&lt;ref name=born /&gt; expressing the view that general relativity is &quot;necessary&quot; to provide the &quot;complete&quot; solution of the twin paradox.
b) From a modern standpoint, however, Einstein's explanation has nothing to do with general relativity, but is rather an application of accelerated frames and &quot;pseudo&quot;-gravitational fields to flat Minkowski space of ''special'' relativity.&lt;ref name=weiss group=S /&gt;}}

|-

|[[w:Hans Thirring|Thirring]]&lt;ref name=thirring /&gt;

April 1921

|{{anchor|Thirring 1921-DS}}[[Image:Twin Paradox Minkowski Diagram.svg|right|200px]]
He described the round-trip experiment by using two platforms K (clock A) and K' (clock B) each equipped with rows of clocks. He first demonstrated the symmetry of time dilation and the mutual relativity of simultaneity on the platforms and its effect on clock synchronization. The K clocks that B passes are all advanced because of &lt;math&gt;t'=\gamma\left(t-vx/c^{2}\right)&lt;/math&gt;, and the same is true after turnaround since only the direction of velocity has to be changed in the Lorentz transformation &lt;math&gt;t'-t'_{0}=\gamma\left(t+vx/c^{2}\right)&lt;/math&gt; leading to the effect of clock desynchronization, where &lt;math&gt;t'_{0}&lt;/math&gt; is a constant depending on which clock one uses as standard for the new synchronization. He graphically showed using Minkowski diagrams, that this simultaneity jump due to desynchronization amounts to double the velocity time dilation during the inertial phases, explaining why A is more advanced than B at reunion. 

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Using clock B as synchronization standard, Thirring's constant is given by &lt;math&gt;t'_{0}=2l\gamma v/c^{2}=2t\gamma v^{2}/c^{2}&lt;/math&gt; with &lt;math&gt;l=vt&lt;/math&gt; as position of turnaround. A similar explanation was subsequently given by Langevin (1922).&lt;ref name=morand /&gt;}}

|}

==Curved spacetime==

While the previous examples are defined in flat Minkowski spacetime and therefore can be fully discussed in terms of special relativity, [[general relativity]] is required when [[:w:spacetime curvature]] in the presence of mass and energy cannot be neglected any more.&lt;ref name=koks group=S /&gt; 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

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|[[w:Jean Becquerel|Becquerel]]&lt;ref name=becqu1 /&gt;

1922

|After defining gravitational time dilation &lt;math&gt;d\tau=\sqrt{1-\tfrac{2GM}{c^{2}r}}dt&lt;/math&gt; in terms of the [[w:Schwarzschild metric]] around a material center, he discussed the following round-trip experiment: There are two identical clocks A and B placed next to each other, at a point very far from the material center, initially marking the same time &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt;. Let us transport clock A to a point where the field is more intense, at a distance &lt;math&gt;r&lt;/math&gt; from the center; this clock will measure time &lt;math&gt;\int d\tau&lt;/math&gt; which is shorter than &lt;math&gt;\int dt&lt;/math&gt;, thus it will run more slowly. If we bring clock A back to clock B, we will have to note that it is retarded with respect to B.

|}

==Paradoxical?==

{| class=wikitable style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

! width=50% | German original of [[w:Max von Laue|Laue]] (1911/12):&lt;ref name=laue1&gt;Laue introduces the word &quot;paradox&quot;, alludes to Berg and discusses Wiechert, in: {{citation |author=Laue, M. v. |title=Zwei Einwände gegen die Relativitätstheorie und ihre Widerlegung |journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift |volume=13 |issue=3|date=February 1912|orig-date=Submitted December 1911|pages=118–120|url=https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0013/page/148}}; {{icon|wikisource}} See also English translation [[:s:Translation:Two Objections Against the Theory of Relativity and their Refutation|Two Objections Against the Theory of Relativity and their Refutation]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

! English translation

|-

|Unter all den paradox erscheinenden Folgerungen aus der Zeittransformation der Relativitätstheorie gibt es wohl keine, gegen welche sich der natürliche Menschenverstand bei jedem, der der Sache noch ungewohnt ist, so sehr sträubt, wie gegen die, daß die Zeitangabe einer Uhr von ihrem Bewegungszustand abhängen soll. Schon in seiner grundlegenden Arbeit hat Einstein diese Paradoxie auf die Spitze getrieben in einem Gedankenexperiment, welches neuerdings von Langevin in einem auch sonst sehr lesenswerten Vortrage besonders hübsch erläutert worden ist.

|Of all apparently paradox consequences that stem from the time-transformation of the theory of relativity, there is probably none against which the common sense of anyone who is still unfamiliar with the matter is more reluctant, than the one according to which the time indication of a clock shall be dependent on its state of motion. Already in his fundamental paper, Einstein has driven this paradox to the extreme by a thought experiment, recently explained in a very nice way by Langevin in a lecture that is also very readable in other respects.

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=Laue was probably the first to denote the round-trip experiment as paradoxical (even though he pointed out that there are no real contradictions). Subsequently, [[:w:Paul Gruner|Gruner]] (1912)&lt;ref name=gruner /&gt; and others including Einstein (1918)&lt;ref name=einstein18 /&gt; explicitly used the expression &quot;clock paradox&quot; (French: Paradoxe des horloges, German: Uhrenparadoxon), whereas [[w:Rudolf Seeliger|Seeliger]] (1913)&lt;ref name=seel /&gt; spoke of the &quot;familiar Einstein-Langevinian paradox&quot; (German: &quot;bekannte Einstein-Langevinsche Paradoxon&quot;).}}

|}

==Misunderstandings==

{| class=wikitable style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot; 

! width=50% padding=10 | German original by [[w:Otto Berg (scientist)|Berg]] (1910):&lt;ref name=berg /&gt;

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Im Punkte &lt;math&gt;x = 0&lt;/math&gt; des Systems S befinde sich eine Uhr, eine andere im Punkte &lt;math&gt;x'=0&lt;/math&gt; von S'. Diese zweite bewege sich mit S' bis zum Punkte &lt;math&gt;x = a&lt;/math&gt;, kehre dort um und bewege sich nun mit der Geschwindigkeit &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; zurück bis zum Punkte &lt;math&gt;x= 0&lt;/math&gt;. Welche Zeit müssen beide Uhren in dem Moment angeben, wo sie sich wieder treffen? Wir beantworten diese Frage zunächst vom Standpunkt des Beobachters in S. Die Uhr in &lt;math&gt;x' = 0&lt;/math&gt; hat sich mit der Geschwindigkeit &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; bis zum Punkte &lt;math&gt;x = a&lt;/math&gt; bewegt; dazu brauchte sie die Zeit &lt;math&gt;\tau=\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt;. Zum Rückweg ist dieselbe Zeit nötig. Nach der Zeit &lt;math&gt;2\tau=2\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt; ist die Uhr also wieder im Punkte &lt;math&gt;x = 0&lt;/math&gt; angelangt. Wir stellen uns nun auf den Standpunkt des Beobachters in S'. Für diesen führt nach dem Relativitätsprinzip das System S genau dieselben Bewegungen aus wie das System S' für den Beobachter in S, nur in entgegengesetzter Richtung. Die Zeit bis zum Zusammentreffen beider Uhren ist also im System S' ebenfalls gegeben durch &lt;math&gt;2\tau=2\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt;. Betrachtungen, die auf anschauliche Vorstellungen, wie Nachgehen von Uhren, gestützt sind, führen hier leicht zu Irrtümern, von denen auch die Fachlitteratur nicht frei ist.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |There is a clock at point &lt;math&gt;x=0&lt;/math&gt; of system S, and another one at point &lt;math&gt;x'=0&lt;/math&gt; of S'. The second one moves together with S' until point &lt;math&gt;x=a&lt;/math&gt;, turns around and now moves back with speed &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; to point &lt;math&gt;x=0&lt;/math&gt;. Which time must both clocks indicate at the moment at which they encounter again? We answer this question at first from the standpoint of the observer in S. The clock at &lt;math&gt;x=0&lt;/math&gt; has been moving with speed &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; until point &lt;math&gt;x=a&lt;/math&gt;, for which it required time &lt;math&gt;\tau=\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt;. The same time is required for the way back. After time &lt;math&gt;2\tau=2\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt; the clock has thus arrived again at point &lt;math&gt;x=0&lt;/math&gt;. Let's now take the standpoint of the observer in S'. In his view in accordance with the relativity principle, system S is conducting exactly the same motions as those of system S' with respect to the observer in S, only in opposite direction. Thus the time until the meeting of both clocks is given by &lt;math&gt;2\tau=2\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt; in system S' as well. Considerations based on illustrative notions, such as the retardation of clocks, easily lead to mistakes at this place, of which also the professional literature isn't free.

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=Berg was probably the first to turn the relativity principle against asymmetric aging in the round-trip experiment, claiming that both clocks must indicate the same time at reunion. See [[w:Twin paradox]] as well as sections {{slink||Acceleration as asymmetry indicator|Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator|Perspective of the traveler}} for the solution of that problem.}}

|-

! width=50% | German original by [[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]] (1911)&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt;

! English translation

|-

|colspan=2| Even though he correctly derived differential clock aging in the round-trip experiment, he claimed that effects like time dilation are &quot;apparent&quot; if one admits Einstein's &quot;unconditional&quot; relativity principle in which there is no aether and all &quot;strides&quot; (i.e. non-accelerated motions) are physically equivalent, but they are &quot;real&quot; if one admits the existence of an aether in the framework of a &quot;conditional&quot; relativity principle in which all strides are physically non-equivalent or anisotropic. This led him to the following interpretation of the clock paradox:

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |[...] so muß am Schluß des Versuches B in seinem Fortschritt gegenüber A im Verhältnis &lt;math&gt;1:\sqrt{1-u^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; zurückgeblieben sein. Und dieses Zurückbleiben ist unbedingt reell, denn die beiden Gebilde A und B können ja unter gleichen Umständen unmittelbar beieinander verglichen werden. Hier ist es ganz sicher ausgeschlossen, an einen Schein zu glauben, der durch unsere Auffassung der Zeit bewirkt wird. So ist denn also auch die Folgerung unabwendbar, daß für den Verlauf der Weltvorgänge die Schreitungen nicht gleichwertig sind, ''und damit sind wir von neuem zu einem Schluß gekommen, welcher der Unbedingtheit des Relativitätsprinzipes durchaus widerspricht.'' [...] Man kann den Versuch noch mannigfach variieren, z. B. so, daß A ebenso wie B zwei verschiedene Schreitungen, &lt;math&gt;+u&lt;/math&gt; und &lt;math&gt;-u&lt;/math&gt;, nacheinander inne hat. Wird dann zu A der Wert &lt;math&gt;u_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, zu B  der Wert &lt;math&gt;u_{2}&lt;/math&gt;, zugeordnet, so muß der Vergleich von A  und B am Schluß des Versuches ergeben, daß B  oder A in seinem Fortschritt zurückgeblieben erscheint, je nachdem die Schreitungen &lt;math&gt;+u_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, &lt;math&gt;-u_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, oder &lt;math&gt;+u_{2}&lt;/math&gt;, &lt;math&gt;-u_{2}&lt;/math&gt; weiter auseinanderliegen. ''Vielleicht ist gerade diese Formulierung des Satzes besonders geeignet, um die Ungleichwertigkeit der verschiedenen Schreitungen klar und deutlich zu zeigen.''

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | [...] thus B's progress must be retarded with respect to A's in the ratio &lt;math&gt;1:\sqrt{1-u^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; at the end of the experiment. And this retardation is definitely real, since both bodies A and B indeed can be immediately compared side by side under the same conditions. Here it is certainly excluded to believe that this is an appearance due to our conception of time. Thus the consequence is unavoidable too, that the strides are not equivalent in the course of the world processes, ''and therefore we again came to a conclusion that completely contradicts the unconditionality of the relativity principle.'' [...] One can vary this experiment in many ways, for instance, so that A in the same way as B successively undergoes two different strides &lt;math&gt;+u&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;-u&lt;/math&gt;. If we apply the value &lt;math&gt;u_{1}&lt;/math&gt; to A and &lt;math&gt;u_{2}&lt;/math&gt; to B, then the comparison of A and B at the end of the experiment must give the result, that B or A is retarded in its progress depending on whether the strides &lt;math&gt;+u_{2},-u_{2}&lt;/math&gt; or &lt;math&gt;+u_{1},-u_{1}&lt;/math&gt; are further apart. ''Probably it is precisely this formulation of the theorem that is particularly suitable to demonstrate the non-equivalence of the different strides clearly and explicitly.''

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=This interpretation was directly rebutted by Laue (1911/12) who demonstrated the geometrical meaning of differential aging in Minkowski space, see sections {{slink||Laue 1911/12-PT|Laue 1911/12-VA}}, showing that there is no need to assume non-equivalance or anisotropy of motions. Laue added, that as long as there is no experimental contradiction to the relativity principle, the question after the aether can be banned from physics and left to philosophy.&lt;ref name=laue1 /&gt;}}

|-

! width=50% | German original by [[w:Norman Robert Campbell|Campbell]] (November 1911, published 1912)&lt;ref name=camp /&gt;

! English translation

|-

|colspan=2|After describing the round-trip experiment (as given by Wiechert) according to which the traveling clock B is retarded when it returns with respect to stationary clock A, he abandoned differential clock aging as follows: 

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Dieser Schluß ist nicht richtig. Die Beziehung zwischen &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt;, der Ablesung an der Uhr auf A seitens des Beobachters auf A und &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt;, der Ablesung an der Uhr auf B seitens des Beobachters auf A, ist (unter der Annahme, daß zu Beginn des Versuchs &lt;math&gt;t=t'&lt;/math&gt; ist)
:&lt;math&gt;t'=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}}\left(t-vz/c^{2}\right)&lt;/math&gt;. 
Der Unterschied zwischen &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; ist eine Funktion von &lt;math&gt;z&lt;/math&gt; und &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; allein. Wenn man diesen Größen ihre früheren Werte wiedergibt, indem man die beiden Uhren wieder zur Koinzidenz bringt, während sie relativ zueinander ruhen, so geht der Unterschied zwischen &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; wieder auf null zurück, gleichviel, welche Werte &lt;math&gt;z&lt;/math&gt; und &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; während der Zwischenzeit gehabt haben mögen. Wenn an irgendeinem Punkte der Bahn die Geschwindigkeit von B relativ zu A eine endliche plötzliche Änderung erfährt, so erfährt auch der Wert von &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; eine endliche plötzliche Änderung.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |This conclusion is not correct. The relationship between &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; as the reading on the clock on A by the observer on A, and &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; as the reading on the clock on B by the observer on A, is given by (assuming that &lt;math&gt;t=t'&lt;/math&gt; at the beginning of the experiment)
:&lt;math&gt;t'=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}}\left(t-vz/c^{2}\right)&lt;/math&gt;. 
The difference between &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; is a function of &lt;math&gt;z&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; alone. If these quantities are given their previous values by bringing the two clocks back to coincidence during which they are at rest relative to one another, the difference between &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; goes back to zero, no matter what values &lt;math&gt;z&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; may have had in the meantime. If at any point on the path the speed of B experiences a finite sudden change relative to A, then the value of &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; also undergoes a finite sudden change.

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=So Campbell claims that any time difference during the outbound path is wiped out during the inbound path. His mistake is obvious: Campbell is confusing coordinate differences stemming from the Lorentz transformation of ''events'' (which indeed depend on position and direction) with differences in ''clock aging'' derived from the proper time integral (which is ''accumulative'' and independent of position and direction.)}}

|-

! width=50% | French original by [[w:Paul Gruner|Gruner]] (March 1912):&lt;ref name=gruner /&gt;

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |[...] deux personnes du même âge, se séparant dans des systèmes de « marche » très différents et retournant après un laps de temps assez long, constateront une différence d'âge très sensible. [...] le principe de relativité exige toujours la ''réciprocité parfaite'' des phénomènes entre deux systèmes qui possèdent un mouvement relatif. Si, dans l'exemple cité, les deux personnes du même âge se séparent avec une vitesse relative pour se retrouver plus tard, la constatation d'une différence d'âge sera parfaitement mutuelle : A dira positivement que B est resté en arrière dans son développement, et B affirmera avec le même droit que c'est A qui ne s'est pas développé assez vite. Ainsi le principe absolu de la relativité montre ses conséquences les plus extrèmes et il est clair que l'introduction de l’éther n'est plus en état de résoudre cette contradiction irréductible et inconcevable.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | [...] two people of same age, separating into very different systems of motion and returning after a quite long period of time, will notice a very significant age difference. [...] the principle of relativity always requires the ''perfect reciprocity'' of the phenomenons between two systems that possess relative motion. When, in the cited example, the two persons of same age are separated by some relative velocity only to meet again later, the finding of an age difference will be perfectly mutual: A will positively say that B stayed behind in its development, and B will assert with same right that it was A who has not developed fast enough. By that, the absolute relativity principle shows its most extreme consequences and it is clear, that the introduction of the aether is no longer able to resolve this irreducible and inconceivable contradiction.

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=Gruner was probably the first to claim that combining the round-trip experiment with the symmetry of time dilation leads to the contradictory situation, that both must attribute younger age to one another at reunion. At the end of his paper, we also find the expression &quot;clock paradox&quot; (French: paradoxe des horloges). See [[w:Twin paradox]] as well as sections {{slink||Acceleration as asymmetry indicator|Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator|Perspective of the traveler}} for the solution of that problem.}}

|}

==Historical references==

&lt;references&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein05&gt;See p. 904f in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1905 |title=Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper|journal=Annalen der Physik |volume=322 |issue=10 |pages=891–921 |doi=10.1002/andp.19053221004|quote=Reprinted in ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 2, Document 23}}. See also: [https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/ English translation at fourmilab].&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein11a&gt;See p. 10. in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |title=Die Relativitäts-Theorie|journal=Naturforschende Gesellschaft, Zürich, Vierteljahresschrift |volume=56 |issue=1-2|pages=1–14 |date=27 November 1911|orig-date=Lecture 16 January 1911|url=https://archive.org/details/naturforschendegesellschaftinzurich_vierteljahrsschriftdernaturforschendengesellschaftinzur_v56_1911/page/n11/mode/2up|quote=Reprinted in ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 3, Document 17}}.&lt;br /&gt; The publication date 27 November 1911 can be seen on the [https://archive.org/details/naturforschendegesellschaftinzurich_vierteljahrsschriftdernaturforschendengesellschaftinzur_v56_1911/page/n5/mode/2up Title page and TOC of issue 1-2].&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein3&gt;Discussion between Einstien, Müller, Lämmel and others after the Zürich lecture: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A.; Müller, F., Lämmel, R.|title=Diskussion zu &quot;Die Relativitäts-Theorie&quot;|journal=Naturforschende Gesellschaft, Zürich, Vierteljahresschrift |volume=56 |pages=II-IX |date=January 1912|orig-date=Lecture on 16 January 1911|url=https://archive.org/details/naturforschendegesellschaftinzurich_vierteljahrsschriftdernaturforschendengesellschaftinzur_v56_1911/page/n587/mode/2up|quote=Reprinted in  ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 3, Document 18, and in the corresponding English translation volume}}&lt;br /&gt; While the discussion already happened on January 1911, the publication followed one year later in January 1912 in the session proceedings (Sitzungsberichte) of the third issue, see [https://www.ngzh.ch/publikationen/vjs/56/3 Full issue Nr. 3] with [http://www.ngzh.ch/archiv/1911_56/56_1-2/56_3.pdf Title page and TOC] and the [http://www.ngzh.ch/archiv/1911_56/56_3/56_30.pdf Sitzungsberichte including Einstein's discussion on pp. II-IX]. &lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einst12manu&gt;See p. 46 in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1912 |chapter=Document 1: Einstein's manuscript on the special theory of relativity|title=The collected papers of Albert Einstein|volume=4|pages=3-108|trans-chapter=See also the English translation in the corresponding translation volume}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstlor&gt;{{Citation|author=Einstein, A.|date=1914|title=Review of &quot;Lorentz, H. A. – Das Relativitätsprinzip&quot; |journal=Die Naturwissenschaften|volume=2|pages=1018|url=https://archive.org/details/CAT31421305002/page/1018/mode/2up|quote=Reprinted in  ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 6, Document 11}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstpetz&gt;{{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1914 |chapter=Document 5: Letter from Einstein to Petzoldt|title=The collected papers of Albert Einstein|volume=8a|pages=16-17|trans-chapter=See also the English translation in the corresponding translation volume}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein16&gt;See p. 423f in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1916 |title=Announcement of Einstein's lecture &quot;Über einige anschauliche Überlegungen aus dem Gebiete der Relativitätstheorie&quot;|journal=Berliner Sitzungsberichte|pages=423|volume=1916 (part 1)|url=https://archive.org/details/sitzungsberichte1916deutsch/page/423/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einadl&gt;Letter exchange between Einstein and Adler in which the critique on the clock paradox by Berg (1910) and Petzoldt (1914) was mentioned, together with the general relativity solution in terms of the gravitational potential, in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1918 |chapter=Adler's letter in Document 620 and Einstein's reply in Document 628|title=The collected papers of Albert Einstein|volume=8a|pages=16-17|trans-chapter=See also the English translation in the corresponding translation volume}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein18&gt;Einstein discussed in terms of inertial frames (special relativity) on pp. 697f; accelerated frames (general relativity) on pp. 698f.; distant masses (Mach's principle) on pp. 700f. in: {{citation |author=Einstein, A.|title=Dialog über Einwände gegen die Relativitätstheorie|date=November 1918|volume=6|issue=48|journal=Die Naturwissenschaften|pages=697-702|url=https://archive.org/details/sim_naturwissenschaften_1918-11-29_6_48|quote=Reprinted in ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 7, Document 13}}; See also English translation [[:s:Translation:Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity|Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity]] on Wikisource.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein18b&gt;Letter exchange between Max Jakob and Einstein from December 1918, in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1918 |chapter=Jakob's letter in Document 661c and Einstein's reply in Document 663a|title=The collected papers of Albert Einstein|volume=10|pages=189-190}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein20&gt;Interview of Einstein by Moszkowski, see p. 204f. in: {{citation |author=Moszkowski, A.|title=Einstein. Einblicke in seine Gedankenwelt|orig-date=Copyright date 1920 |date=1921|place=Hamburg|url=https://www.archive.org/details/einsteineinblick00moszuoft}}; See also English translation by H. L. [[Henry Brose|Brose]] (1921): [https://archive.org/details/einsteinsearch00moszrich Einstein, the searcher], p. 206&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=morand&gt;Discussion between Painlevé, Einstein, and Langevin on p. 316ff in: {{citation |author=Morand, M.|title=Einstein au collège de france|date=April 1922|journal=La Nature|volume=50|issue=2511|pages=315-320|url=http://cnum.cnam.fr/CGI/fpage.cgi?4KY28.102/319/100/620/5/613}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lammel&gt;{{Citation|author=Lämmel, R.|date=28 April 1911|title=Die Relativitäts-Lehre|journal=Neue Zürcher Zeitung|volume=117|pages=1|url=https://www.e-newspaperarchives.ch/?a=d&amp;d=NZZ19110428-01.2.4.1}}; English translation of the part concering the twin pardox at [[:v:History of Topics in Special Relativity/Twin paradox#Lämmel 1911-Hum|Wikiversity:Early history of the twin paradox - Lämmel]]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lammel2&gt;See p. 84ff in: {{Citation|author=Lämmel, R.|date=1921|orig-date=Preface December 1920|title=Die Grundlagen der Relativitätstheorie|place=Berlin|publisher=Springer|url=https://archive.org/details/diegrundlagende00lmgoog}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=langevin1&gt;He derived differential aging from the proper time integral; pointed out that this demonstrates the &quot;absolute nature of acceleration&quot; with respect to an aether, see: {{citation |author=Langevin, P.|title=[[:s:fr:L’Évolution de l’espace et du temps|L’Évolution de l’espace et du temps]]|journal=Scientia |volume=X |pages=31–54 |date=July 1911|orig-date=Lecture 10 April 1911}}; English translation [[:s:en:Translation:The Evolution of Space and Time|The Evolution of Space and Time]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=langevin2&gt;See p. 329 in: {{citation |author=Langevin, P. |title=Le temps, l'espace et la causalité dans la physique moderne |journal=Bulletin de la Société française de philosophie |volume=12 |orig-date=Lecture October 1911|date=1912|pages=1-28|url=http://ahp.li/1f7fc22d283fdf0deeca.pdf}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=wiechert11&gt;See p. 745f. general description and proper time; 757f. space travel; in: {{Citation |author=Wiechert, E. |date=September 1911|orig-date=Lectures March-May 1911, submitted 26 July|title=[[:s:de:Relativitätsprinzip und Äther|Relativitätsprinzip und Äther]]|journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift |volume=12 |issue=17-18 |pages=[https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0012/page/741 689-707] published September 1; [https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0012/page/789 737–758] published September 15}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=wiechert15&gt;See p. 46 (Einstein, Langevin, Wiechert) and pp. 51f (Laue versus Wiechert) in: {{citation |author=Wiechert, E.|contribution=Die Mechanik im Rahmen der allgemeinen Physik| title=Die Kultur der Gegenwart: Physik|volume=3.3.1|date=1915 |orig-date=Submitted July 1914|pages=1–78|contribution-url=https://www.archive.org/details/physikunterredak00warbuoft}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=wiechert20&gt;See p. 46f in: {{citation |author=Wiechert, E.|title=Der Äther im Weltbild der Physik|orig-date=Presented December 1920|date=1921|journal=Nachrichten von der Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften zu Göttingen, Mathematisch-Physikalische Klasse|pages=29-70|url=http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/dms/resolveppn/?PPN=GDZPPN00250586X}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=wiechert21&gt;See p. 25ff in: {{citation |author=Wiechert, E.|title=[[:s:de:Prinzipielles über Äther und Relativität|Prinzipielles über Äther und Relativität]]|date=1922|orig-date=Lecture September 1921|journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift|volume=23|pages=25-28}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=muller&gt;See p. 9 in: {{Citation|author=Müller, F.|date=October 1911|journal=Berliner Tageblatt|title=[[:s:de:Das Zeitproblem (1911)|Das Zeitproblem]]|pages=[https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/2QKOIOLGNVQILTCEZQOGQPLTRVLPM5PZ?query=zeit&amp;issuepage=9 Part 1 published 16 October 1911] and [https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/IO44I6QBC4SVV5YUKUDSGXYIPQUXXBN5?query=zeit&amp;issuepage=11 Part 2 published 23 October 1911]}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=gruner&gt;See p. 253f in: {{Citation |author=Gruner, P. |title=[[:s:fr:Rapport sur la dernière discussion concernant le principe de la relativité et l’éther|Rapport sur la dernière discussion concernant le principe de la relativité et l’éther]] |journal=Archives des sciences physiques et naturelles |volume=33|issue=4 |pages=252-254 |date=March 1912}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=laue3&gt;See p. 113f in: {{citation |author=Laue, M. v. |title=Das Relativitätsprinzip |journal=Jahrbücher der Philosophie |volume=1 |date=1913 |pages=99–128}}; {{icon|wikisource}} See also English translation of [[:s:Translation:The Principle of Relativity (Laue, Philosophy)|The Principle of Relativity]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=weyl&gt;See p. 147f. in: {{Citation |author=Weyl, H. |date=March 1918|title=Raum-Zeit-Materie (first edition)|publisher=Berlin: Springer|url=https://archive.org/details/RaumZeitMaterieVolIMeinerFrauGewidmet}}; English translation of the 4th edition by H. [[Henry Brose|Brose]] (1921): [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/43006 Space—Time—Matter], pp. 278f.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=gbaum&gt;See footnote on p. 507 in: {{Citation|author=Grünbaum, F. |title=Über einige ideelle Versuche zum Relativitätsprinzip|journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift|volume=12|pages=500–509|date=1911|url=https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0012/page/540}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=laue1&gt;Laue introduces the word &quot;paradox&quot;, alludes to Berg and discusses Wiechert, in: {{citation |author=Laue, M. v. |title=Zwei Einwände gegen die Relativitätstheorie und ihre Widerlegung |journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift |volume=13 |issue=3|date=February 1912|orig-date=Submitted December 1911|pages=118–120|url=https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0013/page/148}}; {{icon|wikisource}} See also English translation [[:s:Translation:Two Objections Against the Theory of Relativity and their Refutation|Two Objections Against the Theory of Relativity and their Refutation]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=laue2&gt;See p. 42f. for general description; p. 58f. in terms of proper time; in: {{Citation |author=Laue, M. v. |orig-date=Preface December 1912|date=1913 |title=Das Relativitätsprinzip (Second Edition) |publisher=Vieweg |place=Braunschweig|url=https://preserver.beic.it/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE4597082}}; See also English translation [[:s:Translation:The Principle of Relativity (Laue 1913)|The Principle of Relativity, Second edition, Part III]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=laue3&gt;See p. 113f in: {{citation |author=Laue, M. v. |title=Das Relativitätsprinzip |journal=Jahrbücher der Philosophie |volume=1 |date=1913 |pages=99–128}}; {{icon|wikisource}} See also English translation of [[:s:Translation:The Principle of Relativity (Laue, Philosophy)|The Principle of Relativity]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=berg&gt;See p. 369f in: {{Citation |author=Berg, O. |date=1910 |title=Das Relativitätsprinzip der Elektrodynamik |journal=Abhandlungen der Fries'schen Schule |volume=3 |issue=2|pages=333-382 |url=http://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.hnuynk?urlappend=%3Bseq=351}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=camp&gt;See p. 123f in: {{Citation |author=Campbell, N. |title=Relativitätsprinzip und Äther: Eine Entgegnung an Herrn Wiechert |journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift |volume=13 |pages=120-128 |issue=3|orig-date=Submitted December 1911|date=February 1912|url=https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0013/page/150}}. The is based on an English manuscript translated by Max Iklé, and Campbell's first name was Germanised as &quot;Normann&quot;.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=seel&gt;{{Citation|author=Seeliger, R.|title=Review of &quot;P. Gruner – Rapport sur la dernière discussion concernant le principe de la relativité et l'éther&quot;|journal=Die Fortschritte der Physik|volume=68|issue=2|pages=336|date=1913|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=fSJGAQAAMAAJ&amp;pg=PA336}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=study&gt;See footnote on p. 111 in: {{citation |author=Study, E. |title=Vorlesungen über ausgewählte Gegenstände der Geometrie |date=June 1911|url=https://archive.org/details/vorlesungenber00studuoft|publisher=B.G. Teubner|place=Leipzig}} &lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=robb1&gt;See pp. 356ff. in: {{Citation|author=Robb, A.|date=1914|title=A theory of time and space|place=Cambridge|publisher=University Press|url=https://archive.org/details/theoryoftimespac00robbrich}} &lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=robb2&gt;See §12 in: {{citation |author=Robb, A. A.|title=The Straight Path|date=1920 |journal=Nature|pages=599|volume=104|issue=2623|url=https://archive.org/details/sim_nature-uk_1920-02-05_104_2623/page/598/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=edding2&gt;See p. 22 in: {{Citation |author=Eddington, A. S. |date=1922 |title=The theory of relativity, and its influence on scientific thought |publisher=Oxford Clarendon Press |url=https://archive.org/details/cu31924005748573}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=rogers&gt;{{citation |author=Rogers, R. A. P.|title=The Time-Triangle and Time-Triad in Special Relativity|date=November 1922|journal=Nature|volume=110|issue=2769|pages=698–699|url=https://archive.org/details/sim_nature-uk_1922-11-25_110_2769/page/698/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lorentz1&gt;See pp. 37f, 55ff in: {{citation |author=Lorentz, H. A.|date=1913|title=Het relativiteitsbeginsel : drie voordrachten gehouden in Teyler's stichting|publisher=De Erven Loosjes |place=Haarlem|url=https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=MMKB24:063387000:00005}}; German translation on pp. 31f, 47f in: {{citation |author=Lorentz, H. A.|date=1914| title=Das Relativitätsprinzip. Drei Vorlesungen gehalten in Teylers Stiftung zu Haarlem|publisher=B.G. Teubner |place=Leipzig and Berlin|url=https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_89PPAAAAMAAJ}}; See also the transcription [[:s:de:Das Relativitätsprinzip (Lorentz)|Das Relativitätsprinzip]] on German Wikisource and the English translation [[:s:Translation:The Principle of Relativity (Lorentz)|The Principle of Relativity]] on English Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lorentz3&gt;See §12 in: {{citation |author=Lorentz, H. A.|title=Considérations élémentaires sur le principe de relativité|date=1914 |journal=Revue générale des sciences pures et appliquées|pages=179-186|url=https://archive.org/details/revuegnraled25pari/page/178/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=bloch&gt;See pp. 67 ff. in: {{Citation | author=Bloch, W.| date=September 1918|title=Einführung in die Relativitätstheorie| publisher=B. G. Teubner |url=https://hdl.handle.net/2027/njp.32101040276907}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=bloch2&gt;See pp. 69ff. (special relativity) and 102ff. (general relativity) in: {{Citation | author=Bloch, W.| date=1920 |title=Einführung in die Relativitätstheorie (second edition)| publisher=B. G. Teubner |url=https://www.archive.org/details/einfhrungindier00blocgoog}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=bollert1&gt;See p. 6 (special relativity), pp. 24-26 (EP) in: {{citation |author=Bollert, K.|title=Einstein’s Relativitätstheorie und ihre Stellung im System der Gesamterfahrung |date=April 1921|publisher=Steinkopff|url=https://archive.org/details/dbc.wroc.pl.001504}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=born&gt;See pp. 190f. (special relativity), 250f (EP) in: {{Citation | author=Born, M.| date=1921 |title=Die Relativitätstheorie Einsteins und ihre physikalischen Grundlagen (Second edition)| publisher=Springer | place=Berlin|url=https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015017387310}}; The [https://preserver.beic.it/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE5426498 first edition (1920)] of Born's book didn't include the twin paradox. English translation of the third edition by H. Brose (1924): [https://archive.org/details/einsteinstheoryo00born Einstein's theory of relativity]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=pauli&gt;See p. 558f (general description); p. 624f (proper time); p. 713f (accelerated frames); in: {{Citation |author=Pauli, W. |date=1921 |journal=Encyclopädie der Mathematischen Wissenschaften|title=Die Relativitätstheorie|pages=539–776|volume=5|issue=2 |url=http://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?PPN360709672}}; English translation by G. Field (1958): [https://books.google.com/books?id=rc3DAgAAQBAJ Theory of Relativity]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=thirring&gt;See p. 209ff in: {{citation |author=Thirring, H.|title=Über das Uhrenparadoxon in der Relativitätstheorie|date=April 1921|journal=Naturwissenschaften|volume=9|issue=18|pages=209-212|url=https://archive.org/details/sim_naturwissenschaften_1921-04-01_9_13/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=sommerfeld&gt;See p. 71 in: {{citation |author=Sommerfeld, A. |date=May 1913|chapter=Remarks on Minkowski's &quot;Space and Time&quot;|title=Das Relativitätsprinzip|editor=Otto Blumenthal|pages=69-73|url=https://www.archive.org/details/dasrelativittsp00minkgoog}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=kopff&gt;See pp. 45ff (special relativity and proper time); pp. 117ff (EP); pp. 189ff (Mach's principle), in: {{citation |author=Kopff, A.|title=Grundzüge der Einsteinschen Relativitätstheorie |date=February 1921|publisher=S. Hirzel|place=Leipzig|url=https://www.archive.org/details/grundzgedereins00kopfgoog}}; English translation by H. Levy (1923): [https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015017188817 The mathematical theory of relativity].&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=becqu1&gt;See p. 48ff (proper time), p. 240f (general relativity) in: {{citation |author=Becquerel, J.|title=[[:s:fr:Le Principe de relativité et la théorie de la gravitation|Le Principe de relativité et la théorie de la gravitation]] |date=1922 |publisher=Gauthier-Villars|place=Paris}}; See also p. 57ff (proper time), p. 177f (general relativity) in: {{citation |author=Becquerel, J.|title=[[:s:fr:Exposé élémentaire de la théorie d’Einstein et de sa généralisation|Exposé élémentaire de la théorie d’Einstein et de sa généralisation]]|date=1922 |publisher=Payot|place=Paris}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;/references&gt;

==Secondary sources==

&lt;references group=S&gt;

&lt;ref name=miller&gt;{{Citation |author=Miller, A. I. |date=1981 |title=Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity. Emergence (1905) and early interpretation (1905–1911) |place=Reading |publisher=Addison–Wesley |isbn=978-0-201-04679-3}}; See section 7.4.13 (Langevin, Wiechert, Laue, Einstein), footnotes 29-34 of chapter 7 (Petzoldt, Sommerfeld, Bergson, Einstein)&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lange&gt;{{Citation|author=Lange, L.|date=1927|title=The clock paradox of the theory of relativity|journal=The American Mathematical Monthly|volume=34|issue=1|pages=22-30|jstor=2299914}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=pes&gt;{{Citation |author=Pesic, P. |date=2003 |title=Einstein and the twin paradox |journal=European Journal of Physics |volume=24 |issue=6 |pages=585–590 |doi=10.1088/0143-0807/24/6/004}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=during&gt;{{Citation |author=During, É. |date=2014 |title=Langevin ou le paradoxe introuvable |journal=Revue de métaphysique et de morale |volume=84 |pages=513-527 |doi=10.3917/rmm.144.0513|doi-access=free}}; See pp. 515f (Langevin), 520f. (Einstein, Laue, Weyl, Painlevé).&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=debs&gt;{{Citation |author=Debs, T. A., &amp; Redhead, M. L. |title=The twin paradox and the conventionality of simultaneity |date=1996 |journal=American Journal of Physics |volume=64|issue=1| pages=384-392 |doi=10.1119/1.18252}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=alizzi&gt;{{Citation |author=Alizzi, A., Sen, A., &amp; Silagadze, Z. K.|title=Do moving clocks slow down? |year=2022 |journal=European Journal of Physics |volume=43|issue=6|pages=065601 |doi=10.1088/1361-6404/ac93ca|arxiv=2209.12654}}; Appendix B with reference to Lange and Halsbury&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=beng&gt;{{Citation |author=Benguigui, L. G. |date=2020 |title=A Tale Of Two Twins: The Langevin Experiment Of A Traveler To A Star |publisher=World Scientific|isbn=9789811219115}}; See early solutions (Einstein, Langevin, Lorentz, Born/Kopff) and the Bergson controversy. A shorter version appeared in {{arxiv|1212.4414}}.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=rowe&gt;{{Citation|author=Rowe, D. E.|date=2006|title=Einstein's allies and enemies: Debating relativity in Germany 1916–1920|journal=Interactions: Mathematics, Physics and Philosophy|pages=231-280|publisher=Springer|doi=10.1007/978-1-4020-5195-1_8}}; Covering the criticism of Gehrcke starting with 1912; discussion between Einstein and Gehrcke in 1914; Einstein's dialogue (1918) as response to antirelativists; the Weyland event in 1920 and Einstein's response.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=weiss&gt;Weiss, W. (Physics FAQ): [https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/TwinParadox/twin_gr.html The Twin Paradox: The Equivalence Principle Analysis]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=cuvaj&gt;{{Citation |author=Cuvaj, C. |date=1971 |title=Paul Langevin and the theory of relativity|journal=Japanese studies in the history of science|volume=10| pages=113-142|url=http://www.isc.meiji.ac.jp/~sano/hssj/pdf/Cuvaj_C-1972-Langevin_Relativity-JSHS-No_10-pp113-142.pdf}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=koks&gt;Koks, D. (2018): [https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/sr-gr.html Physics FAQ: Where is the Boundary between Special and General Relativity?]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;/references&gt;

[[Category:History of special relativity]]

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==Early history of the twin paradox==

{{Lorentzbox|Text={{center|Date of article creation: 9 November 2023; Last major revision: 2 March 2026}}}}

a) When was the [[:w:twin paradox]] applied to life forms and human beings?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=pes /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=during /&gt; report that {{slink||Einstein 1911-HU}} discussed the aging of living organisms, and that {{slink||Langevin 1911-HU}} and {{slink||Wiechert 1911-HU}} explicitly discussed the aging of human beings. 

:*More details in sections {{slink||Human beings in 1911|Twins from 1911 to 1920}}, including newspaper articles from 1911 written by {{slink||Lämmel 1911-HU}} and {{slink||Müller 1911-HU}} that clearly show that Einstein was the first to explicitly discuss the aging of human beings as well.

b) Who was the first to formulate the principle of maximal proper time along straight worldlines, upon which differential aging in the standard twin paradox is based?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=during /&gt; mention Langevin (1911), Laue (1911). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Maximal proper time}} with the contributions of Langevin (1911), Wiechert (1911), Study (1911), Laue (1911-13).

c) Who was the first to formulate [[w:Triangle inequality#Reversal in Minkowski space|inverse triangle inequality]] in Minkowski space, which represents the simplest version of the twin paradox?

:*See details in section {{slink||Triangle inequality}} with the contributions of Robb (1914-20), Eddington (1922), Rogers (1922).

d) Who was the first to show that any influence of proper acceleration on clocks can be neglected in the computation of the twin paradox from the viewpoint of the stay-at-home twin?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=pes /&gt; mention Einstein (1911), Laue (1913). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Negligibility of proper acceleration}} with the contributions of Einstein (1911), Wiechert (1911), Laue (1913), Lorentz (1913).

e) Who was the first to introduce the three clock/brother example that completely removes acceleration from the clock/twin paradox?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=debs /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=alizzi /&gt; date it back to Lange (1927) and Lord Halsbury (1957).

:*More details in section {{slink||Relay (three brothers) experiment}} with the contributions of Grünbaum (1911) and Wiechert (1920-22).

f) Who was the first to use acceleration as an asymmetry indicator?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref name=cuvaj group=S /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=pes /&gt; mention Langevin (1911), Einstein (1918). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Acceleration as asymmetry indicator}} with the contributions of Langevin (1911), Sommerfeld (1913), Lorentz (1913), Einstein (1914-20).

g) Who was the first to use different frame distribution as asymmetry indicator as an asymmetry indicator?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=pes /&gt; mention Laue (1911-13). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator}} with the contributions of Laue (1911-13), Bloch (1918).

h) Who was the first to describe the perspective of the traveler?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=beng /&gt; mention Langevin (1911), Lorentz (1914), Einstein (1918). 

:*More details in section {{slink||Perspective of the traveler}} with the contributions of Langevin (1911), Lorentz (1913-14), Einstein (1918), Thirring (1921).

i) Who was the first to describe a round-trip experiment in curved spacetime?

:*See section {{slink||Curved spacetime}} with the contribution of Becquerel (1922).

j) Who was the first to denote the round-trip experiment as paradoxical?

:*Historical accounts&lt;ref group=S name=miller /&gt;&lt;ref group=S name=during /&gt; point to Laue (1911).

:*See section {{slink||Paradoxical?}} for details.

k) Who was the first to misunderstand the twin paradox?

:*See section {{slink||Misunderstandings}} with the contributions of Berg (1910), Wiechert (1911), Campbell (1911/12), Gruner (1912).

==Human beings in 1911==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

![[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]] 

|-

|{{anchor|Einstein 1905}}In 1905&lt;ref name=einstein05 /&gt; he showed that a clock moving on a round-trip away from A and back along a polygonal or curved path, is retarded with respect to a clock stationary at A by approximately &lt;math&gt;\tfrac{1}{2}t(v/V)^{2}&lt;/math&gt; at reunion. For example, a clock on the equator is retarded with respect to a clock on the pole. He described this consequence as being &quot;peculiar&quot; (German: eigentümlich).

{{anchor|Einstein 1911-HU}}In a lecture given on January 1911&lt;ref name=einstein11a /&gt; (published in November), he extended this &quot;funny&quot; (German: drollig) experiment to living organisms:

{| 

! width=55% | Einstein wrote

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Wenn wir z. B. einen lebenden Organismus in eine Schachtel hineinbrächten und ihn dieselbe Hin- und Herbewegung ausführen lassen wie vorher die Uhr, so könnte man es erreichen, dass dieser Organismus nach einem beliebig langen Fluge beliebig wenig geändert wieder an seinen ursprünglichen Ort zurückkehrt, während ganz entsprechend beschaffene Organismen, welche an den ursprünglichen Orten ruhend geblieben sind, bereits längst neuen Generationen Platz gemacht haben. Für den bewegten Organismus war die lange Zeit der Reise nur ein Augenblick, falls die Bewegung annähernd mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit erfolgte!

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |For example, if we put a living organism in a box and make it undergo the same back and forth movement as the clock before, we could achieve that this organism returns to its original location with arbitrary little change after a flight of arbitrary length, whereas completely identical organisms that remained at rest in the original location have long since made room for new generations. To the moving organism, the long journey was only a moment if the movement happened close to the speed of light!

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Two participants of that lecture, {{slink||Lämmel 1911-HU}} and {{slink||Müller 1911-HU}}, report that Einstein also talked about the aging of ''human beings''.}}

|-

!{{anchor|Lämmel 1911-HU}}[[w:Rudolf Lämmel|Lämmel]]

|-

|He attended Einstein's 1911 lecture and gave a popular report about it in the Swiss newspaper &quot;[[w:Neue Zürcher Zeitung|Neue Zürcher Zeitung]]&quot; published on 28 April 1911,&lt;ref name=lammel /&gt; including additional details. Regarding the round-trip clock experiment he wrote:

{| 

! width=50% | Lämmel wrote

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Bewegt sich eine Uhr mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit längs einer Geraden, auf der gerichtete Uhren stehen, so scheint die bewegte Uhr, beurteilt vom Standpunkt der ruhenden aus, im oben stizzierten Sinn, stillzustehen. Kehrt die Uhr, nach einem Ruck, mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit wieder zurück zur Zentral-Uhr, so ist, nach Einstein, für den Beobachter bei der Zentral-Uhr die Sache so, als ob ein mit der bewegten Uhr mitgeführter Beobachter (samt dessen Uhr) nicht gealtert hätte. Hinge also des letzteren Alter von den Angaben des ruhenden Beobachters ab, so könnte der von einer großen Reise ins Weltall zurückkehrende Beobachter bei der Zentral-Uhr spätere Generationen antreffen – er selber hätte nicht gealtert. Welche Bedeutung diese ''ad absurdum'' geführte Gedankenspielerei etwa hat, läßt sich heute nicht absehen – vielleicht, ja wahrscheinlich ist sie ohne jeden Einfluß auf die tatsächlichen Verhältnisse. Aber man sieht dabei immerhin, daß die Physik imstande ist, die kühnsten Träume der Phantasie noch – zu überbieten.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Let a clock be moving at speed of light along a line on which regulated clocks are standing, then the moving clock's hand appears to be standing still (in the sense described above) as judged from the standpoint of the resting one. If the clock, after one jolt, comes back with light speed to the central clock, then according to Einstein the matter presents itself to the observer at the central clock, as if the observer comoving with the clock (together with his clock itself) hasn't been grown older. Thus if the age of the latter would depend on the indications of the resting observer, the observer returning from a great journey into space could meet later generations at the central-clock – he himself hasn't been grown older. The importance of this play of thought led ''ad absurdum'' cannot be seen today – maybe, or even probably, it is without any influence on the actual situations. Though at least one can see that physics is able to – surpass – even the boldest dreams and fantasies.

|}

Lämmel in December 1920 (published 1921)&lt;ref name=lammel2 /&gt; again alluded to Einstein's lectures in Zürich (possibly the one from 1911, and maybe also later ones), describing a discussion between himself and Einstein. After Einstein concluded that the travelers who came back after their journey will probably meet their former contemporaries as old men while they themselves could have been away for only a few years, Lämmel objected that this conclusion is only drawn with respect to rods and clocks, but not with respect to living beings. Einstein responded though, that all processes in the blood, in the nerves etc. are eventually periodical oscillations, i.e. motions. Yet to any such motion the relativity principle applies, thus the conclusion regarding the unevenly rapid aging it permissive.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=While the official publication of Einstein's January lecture ({{slink||Einstein 1911-HU}}) mentions the aging of organisms, Lämmel recalls the reference to the aging of a human space traveler (&quot;observer returning from a great journey into space&quot;). This means that Einstein was the first to use human beings in the clock/twin paradox on January 16 which was first published by Lämmel on April 28, 1911. In comparison, {{slink||Langevin 1911-HU}} used space travelers in a lecture on April 10 with publication in July, and {{slink||Wiechert 1911-HU}} used space travelers in lectures held between March 25 and May 23 with publication in July/September. It seems very unlikely that before April 28, Lämmel became somehow aware of the content of Langevin's or Wiechert's lectures held a few weeks earlier, in order to use them in his description of Einstein's lecture.}}

|-

!{{anchor|Langevin 1911-HU}}[[w:Paul Langevin|Langevin]]

|-

|On 10 April 1911, published July 1911,&lt;ref name=langevin1 /&gt; he held a now famous lecture popularizing the clock/twin paradox which he derived from the proper time integral as described in {{slink||Langevin 1911-PT}}. He demonstrated that a moving radioactive sample of radium is less evolved and less aged and therefore more active at return then the ones that remained in the laboratory. He also used light signals and the Doppler effect to visualize the effect. The most famous part concerned his description of the aging of human space travelers:

{| 

! width=50% | Langevin wrote

! [[:s:Translation:The Evolution of Space and Time|English Wikisource translation]]

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Cette remarque fournit le moyen, à celui d’entre nous qui voudrait y consacrer deux années de sa vie, de savoir ce que sera la Terre dans deux cents ans, d’explorer l’avenir de la Terre en faisant dans la vie de celle-ci un saut en avant qui pour elle durera deux siècles et pour lui durera deux ans, mais ceci sans espoir de retour, sans possibilité de venir nous informer du résultat de son voyage puisque toute tentative du même genre ne pourrait que le transporter de plus en plus avant.

Il suffirait pour cela que notre voyageur consente à s’enfermer dans un projectile que la Terre lancerait avec une vitesse suffisamment voisine de celle de la lumière, quoique inférieure, ce qui est physiquement possible, en s’arrangeant pour qu’une rencontre, avec une étoile par exemple, se produise au bout d’une année de la vie du voyageur et le renvoie vers la Terre avec la même vitesse. Revenu à la Terre ayant vieilli de deux ans, il sortira de son arche et trouvera notre globe vieilli de deux cents ans si sa vitesse est restée dans l’intervalle inférieure d’un vingt-millième seulement à la vitesse de la lumière. Les faits expérimentaux les plus sûrement établis de la physique nous permettent d’affirmer qu’il en serait bien ainsi.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |This remark provides the means for any among us who wants to devote two years of his life, to find out what the Earth will be in two hundred years, and to explore the future of the Earth, by making in his life a jump ahead that will last two centuries for Earth and for him it will last two years, but without hope of return, without possibility of coming to inform us of the result of his voyage, since any attempt of the same kind could only transport him increasingly further.

For this it is sufficient that our traveler consents to be locked in a projectile that would be launched from Earth with a velocity sufficiently close to that of light but lower, which is physically possible, while arranging an encounter with, for example, a star that happens after one year of the traveler's life, and which sends him back to Earth with the same velocity. Returned to Earth he has aged two years, then he leaves his ark and finds our world two hundred years older, if his velocity remained in the range of only one twenty-thousandth less than the velocity of light. The most established experimental facts of physics allow us to assert that this would actually be so.

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Reading his lecture in full, one finds the word &quot;paradoxical&quot; only in relation to the constancy of light speed, not on relation to the round-trip clock experiment.}}

|-

!{{anchor|Wiechert 1911-HU}}[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]

|-

|In lectures on 25 March and 23 May 1911, submitted July and published September 1911,&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt; he described the round-trip clock experiment with two equal clocks regulated to the same rate and brought to the same pointer position, or by introducing the same chemical process two times, or by introducing ''two life forms that began their life at the same time''. At the end of his paper he applied this to human travelers:

{|

! width=50% | Wiechert wrote

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Nehmen wir aber wieder eine Relativgeschwindigkeit an, die bis auf 3 Proz. der Lichtgeschwindigkeit nahekommt, dann wird das Verhältnis der empfundenen Zeitlängen wie 4:1. Das Bild mag etwas weiter noch ausgemalt werden. Denken wir uns, daß ein Beobachter durch den Raum unseres Sternhimmels mit dieser Geschwindigkeit in einer Kreisbahn mit einem Radius von 16 Lichtjahren fährt, dann wird er nach unserer Zeitrechnung nach je 100 Jahren wieder an unserem Sonnensystem vorüberkommen. In seinem Gefährt wird dabei die Zentrifugalkraft so auf ihn einwirken, daß sie gemäß den Relativitätsgesetzen der Einwirkung der Schwerkraft auf uns Erdenbewohner gleich erscheint. Es sind also die wirkenden Kräfte nur so groß, daß der Phantasie die Möglichkeit geboten wird, den Reisenden als menschliches Wesen zu denken. Da hier dauernd &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; ist, fließt die Eigenzeit für den Reisenden viermal langsamer dahin, als für die Bewohner der Gestirne. Wenn er also nach 100 unserer Jahre wieder zu unserem Sonnensystem zurückkehrt, wird er sich selbst nur um 25 Jahre gealtert fühlen. Erreicht er nach der Entwicklung seines Körpers und nach seiner Zeitempfindung ein Alter von 75 Jahren, so entspricht dies doch einer dreimaligen Wiederkehr zu unserem Sonnensystem, also 300 unserer Erdenjahre.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Yet if we again assume a relative velocity approximating the speed of light by 3 percent, then the ratio of the experienced duration of time becomes 4:1. This image can be further extended. Let's imagine that an observer travels with that velocity on a circular path at a radius of 16 light years through the space of our galaxy, then according to our time calculation he passes by our solar system every 100 years. In his vehicle the centrifugal force will act on him in such a way, that in accordance with the relativity laws it will appear to be equal to the force of gravity acting upon the inhabitants of Earth. Thus the acting forces are only thus big, in order to give our fantasy the possibility to imagine the traveler as a human being. Since we have &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; throughout, proper time flows four times slower for the traveler than for the inhabitants of the stars. Thus when he comes back to our solar system after 100 of our years, he will feel to have aged only by about 25 years. If he reaches an age of 75 years according to the development of his body and his own time experience, then this corresponds to a threefold return to our solar system, i.e. 300 of our Earth years.

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=a) Wiechert (1915)&lt;ref name=wiechert15 /&gt; later provided a short historical survey of the clock/twin paradox. He referred to the fact that already {{slink||Einstein 1905}} considered the case of two clocks (&quot;Einstein's clock experiment&quot;), and even though [[w:Hermann Minkowski|Minkowski]] himself didn't consider the case, his proper time formula provides the result in a straight forward manner. The latter was done by himself in lectures on 25 March and 23 May 1911, as well as by Langevin published in July 1911. Wiechert pointed out that he himself and Langevin used &quot;humorist&quot; examples in order to clarify the situation: While Wiechert argued that one has to make a journey in order to stay young, Langevin argued that one has to romp about in a laboratory in order to stay young. Both of them used human beings, arguing that their physical and mental life should have been influenced in the same way as any other process in nature.

b) The dates given by Wiechert (1915) are not complete. The correct ones are:

*Langevin's lecture on 10 April 1911, published in July.

*Wiechert's lectures on 25 March and 23 May 1911, submitted on July 26, published in September.

*He was still unaware of Einstein's lecture from January 1911, published in November 1911.}}

|-

!{{anchor|Müller 1911-HU}}[[w:Fritz Müller-Partenkirchen|Müller]]

|-

|The freelance writer and law student Fritz Müller (who was later known as [[w:Fritz Müller-Partenkirchen|Müller-Partenkirchen]]) attended Einstein's lecture and wrote a popular report about it in the German newspaper &quot;[[w:Berliner Tageblatt|Berliner Tageblatt]]&quot; on 16th and 23rd October 1911,&lt;ref name=muller /&gt; in which he gave further details (compare with {{slink||Lämmel 1911-HU}}). Regarding the clock/twin paradox he wrote:

{| 

! width=50% | Müller wrote

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Zwei gleichgehende Uhren sollen je einen Beobachter haben und nebeneinander ruhen. Nun soll die eine mit ihrem Beobachter plötzlich mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit in den Weltenraum hinausreisen. Vorher haben die beiden vereinbart, sich alle Sekunden mit einem Lichtsignal die Zeit zu telegraphieren. [...] In unserem Grenzfall, wo die Reise mit Lichtgeschwindigkeit vor sich geht, müßte der ruhende Beobachter erklären, jene andere Uhr käme in der Zeit überhaupt nicht voran. Die Zeit stünde dort still. Tatsächlich kommen die Einsteinschen Gleichungen zu diesem Resultat. Für den mit der Uhr reisenden Beobachter, sagt Einstein, gelte dasselbe. Das heißt, im Urteil des Zurückbleibenden würde jener niemals alt. „Und wenn er auf einer gebrochenen Reiselinie wieder an seinen Ausgangspunkt zurückkehrte?&quot; fragt man den Vortragenden in der Diskussion. – „So bliebe er in unserem Urteil so jung wie bei der Ausreise,&quot; erwidert Einstein mit vollem Ernst, „selbst wenn wir Zurückgebliebenen inzwischen Männer mit weißen Bärten geworden sind – die Gleichungen liefern für jede Richtung der Bewegung, auch für eine gebrochene Bewegung, unerschütterlich die selben Resultate.&quot; – Wir sehen einander an. Das klingt märchenhaft. Märchenhaft? Gewiß, die alten Märchen vom Mönch von Heisterbach, vom Rip van Winkle, von Urashima Taro steigen auf. Merkwürdig, wie die Volksphantasie bei den Deutschen, bei den Amerikanern, bei den Japanern in der gleichen Richtung gearbeitet hat – alle drei Märchen erzählen ja von Leuten, deren Leben still steht, viele hundert Jahre lang, während die andern altern. So fanden sie bei ihrer Rückkehr ein anderes Land und eine andere Generation.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Two synchronous clocks at rest next to each other, shall each be accompanied by an observer. Now one of them, together with its observer, suddenly travels into space at the speed of light. Previously, both have arranged that every second they telegraph their time to each other using light signals. [...] In our limiting case where the journey happens at light speed, the resting observer would have to declare that the other clock would not proceed in time at all. Time would stand still at this place. Einstein's equations indeed produce this result. As to the observer traveling with the clock, says Einstein, the same is true. That means in the judgment of the remaining one, the other one would never become old. Then the lecturer [i.e. Einstein] was asked in the discussion: &quot;And if he comes back to his starting point on a curved travel path?&quot;, to which Einstein replied in full earnest: &quot;Then in our judgment he would remain as young as he was at departure, even if we remaining ones became men with white beards in the meantime, the equations unshakably give the same result in every direction of motion, also for curved motion&quot;. We look at each other. That sounds fabulous. Fabulous? Of course, the old fairy tales of [[w:Heisterbach Abbey|w:The monk of Heisterbach]] or [[w:Rip Van Winkle]] or [[w:Urashima Tarō]] come forward. Strange, how the folk fantasy of the Germans, the Americans, the Japanese worked in the same direction, all three fairy tales indeed tell about people whose life stands still, many hundred years long, while the other ones grow old. Thus they found another country and another generation when they returned.

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Müller's account confirms {{slink||Lämmel 1911-HU}} that Einstein indeed mentioned human beings, but his description also suggests that Einstein was the first to use mutually sent light signals. However, as this was published in October, it cannot be excluded that Müller's description of light signals was influenced by {{slink||Langevin 1911-HU}}, published in July, in which light signals were used as well.}}

|}

==Twins from 1911 to 1920==

We now provide a list of authors who employed ''twins'', i.e. ''two'' life forms or humans that initially were of ''same age'' when the round-trip began:

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Date !! Description

|-

|[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt;

|1911

|Two life forms that begin their life at the ''same time'' (German: &quot;Zwei Lebewesen [..] die ihr Leben gleichzeitig beginnen&quot;), of which the moving one returns retarded in its progression with respect to the stationary one.

|-

|[[w:Paul Gruner|Gruner]]&lt;ref name=gruner /&gt;

|1912

|Two persons of ''same age'' (French: &quot;deux personnes du même âge&quot;), of which the moving one returns less developed than stationary one.

|-

|[[w:Max von Laue|Laue]]&lt;ref name=laue3 /&gt;

|1913

|The moving life form returns younger than its ''former agemates'' (German: &quot;ehemaligen Altersgenossen&quot;).

|-

|[[w:Hermann Weyl|Weyl]]&lt;ref name=weyl /&gt;

|Easter 1918

|

{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Von zwei Zwillingsbrüdern, die sich in einem Weltpunkt A trennen, bleibe der eine in der Heimat (d. h. ruhe dauernd in einem tauglichen Bezugsraum), der andere aber unternehme Reisen, bei denen er Geschwindigkeiten (relativ zur »Heimat«) entwickelt, die der Lichtgeschwindigkeit nahekommen; dann wird sich der Reisende, wenn er dereinst in die Heimat zurückkehrt, als merklich jünger herausstellen denn der Seßhafte.

|Suppose we have two twin-brothers who take leave from one another at a world-point A, and suppose one remains at home (that is, permanently at rest in an allowable reference-space), whilst the other sets out on voyages, during which he moves with velocities (relative to “home”) that approximate to that of light. When the wanderer returns home in later years he will appear appreciably younger than the one who stayed at home. 

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Weyl was the first to ''explicitly use twins'' in relation to the round-trip experiment. The fourth edition (1920) of that book was translated from German into English and French in 1922.}}

|-

|[[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]]&lt;ref name=einstein20 /&gt;

|1920/21

|{{Anchor|Einstein 1921-TW}}

{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | Trifft A wieder bei B ein, so kann es sich ereignen, daß der beharrende Zwilling inzwischen 60 Erdjahre alt geworden ist, während der zurückkehrende nur 15 Jahre zählt, oder sich gar noch im Säuglingsstadium befindet. [..] Bei diesen Zwillingen, erklärte Einstein, haben wir zunächst eine ''Gefühls -Paradoxie'' vor uns. Eine ''Denk-Paradoxie'' würde indeß nur dann vorliegen, wenn sich für das Verhalten der beiden Geschöpfe kein zureichender Grund anführen ließe. 

|If A then returns to B, it may happen that the twin who stayed at home is now sixty years old, whereas the wanderer is only fifteen years of age, or is perhaps only an infant still. [..] In the case of these two twins, Einstein declared, we have merely a paradox of ''feeling''. It would be a paradox of ''thought'' only if no sufficient ground could be suggested for the behaviour of these two creatures. 

|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=This was based on an interview of Einstein by Moszkowski. While the expression &quot;clock paradox&quot; was used since 1911/12 (see section {{slink||Paradoxical?}}), this seems to be the first time that it was rebranded as &quot;twin paradox&quot;. The copyright mark indicates 1920, while the title page indicates 1921. The translation from German into English also appeared in 1921.}}

|}

==Maximal proper time==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|[[w:Paul Langevin|Langevin]]

1911

|{{anchor|Langevin 1911-PT}}In April 1911 (published July),&lt;ref name=langevin1 /&gt; he described the round-trip experiment without formulas using two portions of matter present at two events happening at the same place. The ''integration of proper time'' along the entire wordlines shows that the portion of matter that starts a closed cycle by receding and finally coming back, will have a ''smaller proper time'' than the one that stayed behind.

In October 1911 (published 1912),&lt;ref name=langevin2 /&gt; Langevin again showed that the portion of matter that described a closed cycle will have a ''smaller proper time'' &lt;math&gt;R&lt;/math&gt; than the one that stayed in an inertial frame, which is defined by the equation:

:&lt;math&gt;\begin{matrix}V^{2}\left(t-t_{0}\right)^{2}=d^{2}-R\\
\left[d^{2}=\left(x-x_{0}\right)^{2}+\left(y-y_{0}\right)^{2}+\left(z-z_{0}\right)^{2}\right]
\end{matrix}&lt;/math&gt; 

|-

|[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt;

Lectures March-May 1911

submitted July

published September

|{{anchor|Wiechert 1911-PT}}Let two equal processes be observed in two equal material systems colocated in two moments (1) and (2), and let there velocities have been changed in arbitrarily different ways in the meantime. It follows that the ratio of advancement of those processes is given by the two intervals &lt;math&gt;\Delta\tau &lt;/math&gt; of their respective ''proper times''. He concluded that any round-trip clock experiment can be easily comprehended from that theorem by computation. The corresponding integral is:

:&lt;math&gt;\Delta\tau=\int_{1}^{2}d\tau=\int_{1}^{2}dt\sqrt{1-\frac{\mathfrak{v}^{2}}{c^{2}}}&lt;/math&gt; 

|-

|[[w:Eduard Study|Study]]&lt;ref name=study /&gt;

June 1911

|Minkowski's concept of worldlines implies that the straight path between two points of the same worldline is the ''longest'' among all paths between those points, if the path length on a worldline is defined by the related proper time.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Study's book was purely mathematical without mentioning clocks or the round-trip experiment, alluding to his result only in a footnote.}}

|-

|[[w:Max von Laue|Laue]]

1911-13

|{{anchor|Laue 1911/12-PT}}In December 1911 (published 1912),&lt;ref name=laue1 /&gt; Laue showed without formulas that the round-trip experiment is represented by a curved worldline, which at worldpoint A decomposes into a row of curves, after which all of them will be re-united at worldpoint B to a single line. Of all curves connecting the points A and B having time-like direction throughout, the straight connection has the ''longest proper time.''

{{anchor|Laue 1912/13-PT}}In December 1912 (published 1913) in the second edition of this relativity book,&lt;ref name=laue1 /&gt; Laue described the proper time integral between events 1 and 2 of a slowly accelerated clock covering a broken line and a stationary clock covering a straight worldline. Of all worldlines covering 1 and 2, the straight line has the ''longest proper time''. Therefore the traveling clock in the round-trip experiment is retarded at reunion, because its curved worldline corresponds to a shorter proper time. This result he presented in terms of the following inequality, of which the right-hand side refers to the straight curve of the stationary clock, while all others possible curves are represented on left-hand side:

:&lt;math&gt;\tfrac{1}{c}\int_{1}^{2}\sqrt{du^{2}-\left(dx^{2}+dy^{2}+dz^{2}\right)}&lt;\tfrac{1}{c}\int_{1}^{2}du&lt;/math&gt; 

{{Lorentzbox|Text={{anchor|Sommerfeld 1913-PT}}Similar treatments can be found in the textbooks of [[w:Arnold Sommerfeld|Sommerfeld]] (1913),&lt;ref name=sommerfeld /&gt; [[w:Hermann Weyl|Weyl]] (1918),&lt;ref name=weyl /&gt; [[w:Wolfgang Pauli|Pauli]] (1921),&lt;ref name=pauli /&gt; [[w:August Kopff|Kopff]] (1921),&lt;ref name=kopff /&gt; [[w:Jean Becquerel|Becquerel]] (1922).&lt;ref name=becqu1 /&gt;}}

|}

==Triangle inequality==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|valign=top|[[w:Alfred Robb|Robb]]

1914-1920

|{{anchor|Robb 1914-TR}}In 1914&lt;ref name=robb1 /&gt; he showed that there are three types of triangles formed by intervals in Minkowski space, depending on whether one deals with &quot;separation lines&quot; (spacelike intervals), &quot;optical lines&quot; (lightlike intervals), or &quot;inertia lines&quot; (timelike intervals representing the path of nonaccelerated particles defined by &lt;math&gt;{\scriptstyle \left(x_{1}-x_{0}\right)^{2}+\left(y_{1}-y_{0}\right)^{2}+\left(z_{1}-z_{0}\right)^{2}-c^{2}\left(t_{1}-t_{0}\right)^{2}&lt;0}&lt;/math&gt;). As to a triangle formed by inertia lines, he showed that the sum of a certain two sides is ''less'' than that of the third one. 

{{Lorentzbox|Text=So the triangle inequality derived from time-like intervals in Minkowski space is ''[[w:Triangle inequality#Reversal in Minkowski space|inverse]]'' to the inequality in Euclidean space. This inverse inequality directly represents the most simple variant of the twin paradox: the traveler follows two sides of the time-triangle, while the stay-at-home observer follows the third side indicating maximal proper time.}}

[[File:RobbTriangle.svg|right|150px]]
In 1920&lt;ref name=robb2 /&gt; Robb gave a numerical example of the triangle ABC with time-like intervals (&quot;inertia lines&quot;) defined by coordinates

:&lt;math&gt;\begin{matrix} &amp; x &amp; y &amp; z &amp; t\\
A\  &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0\\
B\  &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 10\\
C\  &amp; 4 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 5
\end{matrix}&lt;/math&gt; 

which he plugged into 

:&lt;math&gt;\bar{s}^{2}=\left(t_{1}-t_{0}\right)^{2}-\left(x_{1}-x_{0}\right)^{2}-\left(y_{1}-y_{0}\right)^{2}-\left(z_{1}-z_{0}\right)^{2}&lt;/math&gt; 

from which he obtained the sides AB=10, AC=3, CB=3 and the inequality &lt;math&gt;AC+CB&lt;AB&lt;/math&gt;.

|-

|[[w:Arthur Eddington|Eddington]]&lt;ref name=edding2 /&gt;

1922

|He distinguished between the &quot;space-triangle&quot; for spacelike intervals, and the &quot;time-triangle&quot; for time-like intervals. The latter is measured with a clock from A to B and from B to C, with the sum of those readings ''is always less'' than the reading of a clock measuring directly from A to C. In the ordinary space-triangle any two sides are together greater than the third side; in the time-triangle two sides are together ''less'' than the third side. 

|-

|Rogers&lt;ref name=rogers /&gt;

1922

|He showed that the &quot;pure time-triangle&quot; C, A, B (in their proper time order) satisfies the relation &lt;math&gt;\cosh C=\tfrac{\alpha^{2}+\beta^{2}-\gamma^{2}}{2\alpha\beta}&lt;/math&gt;, where &lt;math&gt;\cosh C&lt;/math&gt; denotes the unit-scalar product of the vectors CA, CB, and &lt;math&gt;\alpha,\beta,\gamma &lt;/math&gt; the real and positive intervals BC, CA, AB. Since &lt;math&gt;\alpha&gt;\beta &lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;\cosh C&gt;1&lt;/math&gt;, it follows that &lt;math&gt;\alpha&gt;\beta+\gamma &lt;/math&gt;. That is, &quot;the greatest side of pure time-triangle is greater than the sum of the other two sides&quot;. It follows at once that the stationary value of the proper time integral is an &quot;absolute maximum&quot;.

|}

==Negligibility of proper acceleration==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|valign=top |[[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]]

1905-1918


|In 1905,&lt;ref name=einstein05 /&gt; Einstein used velocity time dilation &lt;math&gt;\tau=t\sqrt{1-\left(\frac{v}{V}\right)^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; to derive the retardation of a clock performing a round-trip with constant speed &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; along a polygonal path or a continuously curved line, without mentioning any influence of acceleration at turnaround.

{{anchor|Einstein 1911-VA}} In 1911 (published 1912),&lt;ref name=einstein3 /&gt; Einstein said that special relativity doesn't say anything about what happened to the clock's pointer position during the acceleration that changes the clock's direction along the round-trip, yet the influence of this change must be getting smaller the longer the clock ''is moving uniformly'', i.e. the longer one chooses the dimensions of the path.

{{anchor|Einstein 1912-VA}}In an unpublished manuscript on special relativity from 1912,&lt;ref name=einst12manu /&gt; he pointed out that any influence of acceleration during the round-trip experiment, can be neglected if one makes the time of acceleration negligible with respect to the total time of motion along the polygonal path. 

{{anchor|Einstein 1914a-VA}}In a letter from April 1914,&lt;ref name=einstpetz /&gt; Einstein showed that any ''finite'' acceleration at turnaround during the round-trip experiment can only influence the clock in a ''finite'' way, thus it can be neglected by minimizing the time of acceleration with respect to the time of uniform translation. So it ''must be concluded'' that the clock is retarded at reunion after traveling on a polygonal path.

{{anchor|Einstein 1914b-VA}}During a conversation in May 1914,&lt;ref name=rowe group=S /&gt; Einstein is reported to have replied that the accelerations during the round-trip are &quot;irrelevant for the amount of the time difference&quot;. (Compare with {{slink||Einstein 1914b-AC}}) 

{{anchor|Einstein 1918-VA}}In his famous &quot;Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity&quot; from 1918,&lt;ref name=einstein18 /&gt; Einstein pointed out that any effect of velocity changes at turnaround must be limited, thus the traveling clock must be retarded at reunion due to time dilation if one makes the path AB and back along the round-trip long enough. (Compare with {{slink||Einstein 1918-AC}})

|-

|[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt;

1911

|{{Anchor|Wiechert 1911-VA}}[[File:WiechertTwin.svg|110px|right]] He demonstrated that differential aging along the round-trip cannot be caused during the passage from one velocity to another (i.e. acceleration) at turnaround, because the same result also follows when ''both'' A and B experience the ''same velocity changes'' with respect to another frame, only with the difference that B has relative velocities &lt;math&gt;+u&lt;/math&gt;  and &lt;math&gt;-u&lt;/math&gt; for a long time, while A is brought after a short time from relative velocity &lt;math&gt;+u&lt;/math&gt; to relative rest at which it remains a long time, and then it is brought to relative velocity &lt;math&gt;-u&lt;/math&gt;  for a short time.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=He was probably the first to use an example in which both accelerate with same magnitude.}}

|-

|[[w:Max von Laue|Laue]]&lt;ref name=laue3 /&gt;

1913

|{{anchor|Laue 1913-VA}}He showed that the problem of the influence of acceleration at turnaround in the round-trip experiment, can be eliminated by ''arbitrarily'' enlarging the time in inertial motion.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=This is the same argument as given in {{slink||Einstein 1911-VA}}. The Einstein-Laue argument was also used by others such as [[w:Hans Thirring|Thirring]] (1921)&lt;ref name=thirring /&gt; or [[w:Max Born|Born]] (1921).&lt;ref name=born /&gt;}}

|-

|[[w:Hendrik Lorentz|Lorentz]]&lt;ref name=lorentz1 /&gt;

1913

|He pointed out that any effect of acceleration on the traveling clock at turnaround, can be separated from the time dilation effect since only the latter depends on the distance traversed along the round-trip.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Similarly, [[w:Wolfgang Pauli|Pauli]] (1921) stated that the arising infinitesimal accelerations at turnaround are certainly independent of the total travel time and ''therefore easy to eliminate''.&lt;ref name=pauli /&gt;}}
|}

==Relay (three brothers) experiment==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|[[w:de:Fritz Grünbaum (Physiker)|Grünbaum]]&lt;ref name=gbaum /&gt;

1911

|He discussed a one-way time dilation experiment in which the first clock is set into motion from the origin and then moving to the second clock. He argued that one can avoid the problem of acceleration experienced by the first clock when set into motion, by replacing it with a ''third'' clock that is already in motion with constant velocity and is synchronized at the origin with the first clock.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=While Grünbaum didn't discuss round-trip experiments, his introduction of a third clock in order to avoid acceleration is the basis of the three-brother experiment.}}

|-

|valign=top|[[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]]

1920-1922

|In 1920 (published 1921),&lt;ref name=wiechert20 /&gt; Wiechert explained how to completely remove acceleration from the round-trip experiment: Bodies A, B, C move undisturbed and non-accelerated in different directions. A and B pass each other at time (1), B and C pass each other at a later time (2), and C and A finally pass each other at an even later time (3). So in this setup, the condition of C is the continuation of the condition of B. On any of the three bodies one can count the oscillations of light of a certain spectral-line, in which case relativity predicts that the ''combined sum of all oscillations'' on B+C is smaller than the number of oscillations on A alone. Wiechert also held that one can replace the light oscillations by the life functions of human-like beings which live on A, B and C. For instance, while the inhabitants of B+C only had time for one meal, there were arbitrarily many generations on A who follow after each other by death and birth.

[[File:Wiechert1922a.png|180px|right]]
In 1921 (published 1922),&lt;ref name=wiechert21 /&gt; Wiechert extended his previous acceleration-free round-trip experiment to an arbitrary number of non-accelerated bodies &lt;math&gt;B_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, &lt;math&gt;B_{2}&lt;/math&gt;, ..., which constitutes a &quot;relay&quot; (German: Stafette) starting from body A and back again. The first B passes A and moves away, and after some time the last B comes back to A. Since any B body continues the fate of the previous one, all bodies &lt;math&gt;B_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, &lt;math&gt;B_{2}&lt;/math&gt;, ..., combined have emitted fewer oscillations than A alone during the relay race. Wiechert pointed out that instead of light oscillations one can also choose the aging of life forms.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Such relay experiments were later independently rediscovered in English language papers&lt;ref name=debs group=S /&gt; such as by Lange (1927)&lt;ref group=S name=lange /&gt; in which the brothers synchronize their times when they pass each other (“three brother experiment”).}}
|}

==Acceleration as asymmetry indicator==

While it was known that any direct influence of [[w:proper acceleration]] on clocks can be neglected in the computation of the inertial frame of the stay-at-home twin (see previous section {{slink||Negligibility of proper acceleration}}), the very fact that only one of them is accelerating is still useful as an asymmetry argument in order to show that there is no contradiction to the relativity principle.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|[[w:Paul Langevin|Langevin]]&lt;ref name=langevin1 /&gt;

1911

|{{Anchor|Langevin 1911-AC}}He derived differential aging in the round-trip experiment using the proper time integral along worldlines (see {{slink||Langevin 1911-PT}}) and used acceleration as an asymmetry indicator: The result of the round-trip experiment is &quot;another example of the absolute character of acceleration&quot; in which the &quot;asymmetry occurred because only the traveler, in the middle of his journey, has undergone an acceleration that changes the direction of his velocity&quot;. 

|-

|[[w:Arnold Sommerfeld|Sommerfeld]]&lt;ref name=sommerfeld /&gt;

1913

|After he showed (see {{slink||Sommerfeld 1913-PT}}) that retardation of time in the round-trip experiment derived from the proper time integral rests on the assumption that the clock's rate ''only depends on its momentary velocity'' (now called &quot;clock hypothesis&quot;), he used acceleration as an asymmetry indicator: There is no contradiction to the relativity principle since one of the clocks has to be accelerated in order to come back, thus the retardation in the round-trip experiment does not demonstrate &quot;motion&quot;, but &quot;accelerated motion&quot;.

|-

|[[w:Hendrik Lorentz|Lorentz]]

1913&lt;ref name=lorentz1 /&gt;

|After he derived differential aging in the round-trip experiment from velocity time dilation and pointed out the negligibility of proper acceleration for the computation, he used acceleration as an asymmetry indicator: There is no contradiction to the relativity principle, since one of them changes velocity and accelerates; the relativity principle does not require symmetry between inertial and non-inertial observers.

|-

|valign=top|[[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]]

1914-1920

|{{anchor|Einstein 1914b-AC}} During a conversation in 1914,&lt;ref name=rowe group=S /&gt; Einstein is reported to have said that moving clock B is retarded because it was accelerating in contrast to clock A; while those accelerations are ''irrelevant'' for the ''amount'' of the time difference, their ''presence'' nevertheless cause B to fall behind (&quot;accelerated motions are absolute&quot;).

{{anchor|Einstein 1918-AC}}In his famous &quot;Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity&quot; from 1918&lt;ref name=einstein18 /&gt;, Einstein pointed out the negligibility of velocity changes from the viewpoint of an inertial frame (see {{slink||Einstein 1918-VA}}). Then he used ''acceleration as an asymmetry indicator'' in order to show, that there is no contradiction to the relativity principle, because relativity only predicts the equivalence of non-accelerated inertial frames: &quot;only K is such a frame while K' is temporarily accelerated, thus the retardation of U2 with respect to U1 cannot be used to construe a contradiction against the theory.&quot; 

{{anchor|Einstein 1920-AC}}Einstein is reported to have said in an interview from 1920:&lt;ref name=einstein20 /&gt;
{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Bei diesen Zwillingen, erklärte Einstein, haben wir zunächst eine ''Gefühls-Paradoxie'' vor uns. Eine ''Denk-Paradoxie'' würde indeß nur dann vorliegen, wenn sich für das Verhalten der beiden Geschöpfe kein zureichender Grund anführen ließe. Dieser Grund für das Jüngerbleiben des A ergibt sich vom Gesichtspunkt der speziellen Relativitätstheorie aus der Tatsache, daß das betreffende Geschöpf — und nur dieses — Beschleunigungen erlitten hat.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |In the case of these two twins,&quot; Einstein declared, &quot;we have merely a paradox of ''feeling''. It would be a paradox of ''thought'' only if no sufficient ground could be suggested for the behaviour of these two creatures . This ground, which counts for the comparative youth of A, is given, from the point of view of the special theory of relativity, by the fact that the creature in question, and only this creature, has been subject to accelerations.&quot;
|}

In a discussion from 1922,&lt;ref name=morand /&gt; Einstein is reported to have said that there is no contradiction in the round-trip experiment (in terms of a train leaving the station and returning later): The relativity principle is not applicable to this case, because the train is not in a Galilean system (i.e. inertial frame) any longer during the period of velocity change at turnaround, i.e. the ensemble of two frames having velocities in opposite direction is not an inertial frame. There is no reciprocity between a frame that changes direction and one that doesn't.

|}

==Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator==

Because any direct influence of proper acceleration on the traveling clock at turnaround can be neglected (see {{slink||Negligibility of proper acceleration}}), the importance of {{slink||Acceleration as asymmetry indicator}} is limited to the mere fact that it reveals that only the traveler was in a non-inertial frame as only he changed his inertial frames, thus instead of emphasizing the occurrence of proper acceleration at turnaround, it's possible to describe the asymmetry more geometrically by emphasizing the different distribution of inertial frames of the twins along their worldlines.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|valign=top|[[w:Max von Laue|Laue]]

1911-1913

|{{Anchor|Laue 1911/12-VA}} In 1911/12,&lt;ref name=laue1 /&gt; he pointed out that during the time of separation, that clock is most advanced which was at rest in an inertial frame all the time; namely there is ''always one, and only one inertial frame'', in which the locations of separation and re-encounter lie in the same geometric point. He clarified this fact by alluding to different paths in spacetime (compare with {{slink||Laue 1911/12-PT}}).

In 1912/13,&lt;ref name=laue2 /&gt; he argued that in the round-trip experiment, we indeed can decide, which one of the clocks was steadily at rest in one and the same reference system, and which one was in the meantime at rest in two or more such systems. Among them there is of course a real physical difference. He clarified this fact by alluding to different paths in spacetime (compare with {{slink||Laue 1912/13-PT}}).

In 1913&lt;ref name=laue3 /&gt; Laue pointed out:

{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | Aber nach unseren Voraussetzungen ruht während der Zeit der Trennung die erste Uhr in ''einem'' berechtigten Bezugssystem, die zweite hingegen ruht zwar sowohl bei der Hin- wie bei der Rückbewegung in berechtigten Bezugssystemen, aber notwendig in ''zwei verschiedenen. Deshalb'' unterscheiden sich beider Schicksale physikalisch. Ließe man die zweite Uhr in der ihr anfangs erteilten Bewegung und schickte man ihr dafür die erste Uhr nach einiger Zeit mit größerer Geschwindigkeit nach, so würde beim Zusammentreffen die erste gegen die zweite zurückgeblieben sein; denn jetzt hat die erste während der Trennung in zwei verschiedenen Systemen geruht. (Footnote: Dem naheliegenden Einwand, daß wir über den Gang einer Uhr während eines Geschwindigkeits''wechsels'' nichts aussagen können, begegnet man am einfachsten mit dem Hinweis, daß man die Zeiten der gleichförmigen Bewegung ''beliebig'' groß gegen die der Beschleunigung machen kann.)

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | However, by our presuppositions, one clock is at rest in ''one'' valid reference system during the time of separation, while the second one is at rest in valid reference systems both during the forward- and the backward motion, but necessarily in ''two different ones. Therefore'' the two fates differ physically. If the second clock remains in the motion which was given to it at the start, and if after some time it is followed by the first clock with greater velocity, then the first one would be retarded with respect to the second one at the encounter; since now it was the first one that was at rest in two different systems during the separation. (Footnote: The objection which is near at hand, that we cannot say anything about the rate of a clock during a velocity ''change'', can be met most simply by the allusion, that we can render the times of uniform motion ''arbitrarily'' great with respect to acceleration..)
|}

|-

|[[w:Werner Bloch|Bloch]]&lt;ref name=bloch /&gt;

September 1918

|{{anchor|Bloch 1918-VA}} He represented the frames with three movable slots K, K' and K”, provided with hooks on which one can hang clocks at the origins of K and K'; while one clock always hangs on a hook of slot K, the other clock moved away with K' and after some time was transferred (neglecting any effect of acceleration) by a mechanical device to slot K” that moves in the other direction, by which it comes back; there is no contradiction to the relativity principle, as one clock rested in one inertial frame while the other one rested in two such frames.

|}

==Perspective of the traveler==

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

|-

|[[w:Paul Langevin|Langevin]]&lt;ref name=langevin1 /&gt;

1911

|{{anchor|Langevin 1911-LI}}[[Image:rstd4.gif|170px|right]] After deriving differential aging from the proper time integral in {{slink||Langevin 1911-PT}} and using human beings in {{slink||Langevin 1911-HU}}, he described the perspectives of both observers using light signals and the Doppler effect. When they separate they see each other live 200 times slower, while at return they see each other live 200 times faster. So ''from the explorer's viewpoint'', in the first year he sees the Earth perform the actions of two days, while in the second year he sees the Earth perform the actions of two centuries. The asymmetry can be seen by noticing, that the observer on Earth in 200 years sees the explorer performs the actions of 1 year. Then the explorer turns around, after which the observer on Earth in 2 days sees the projectile perform the actions of another year.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Langevin used &lt;math&gt;v=c\left(1-\tfrac{1}{20000}\right)&lt;/math&gt;, producing Lorentz factor &lt;math&gt;\gamma\approx100&lt;/math&gt; and Doppler factor &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{\tfrac{c+v}{c-v}}\approx200&lt;/math&gt;.}}

|-

|[[w:Hendrik Lorentz|Lorentz]]

Lectures published in 1913&lt;ref name=lorentz1 /&gt;

Similar treatment in 1914&lt;ref name=lorentz3 /&gt;

|{{anchor|Lorentz 1913/14-LI}}Described the round-trip experiment in terms of inertial observer A (equipped with clock K) and traveling observer B (equipped with clock K'). In the frame of A, clock K' is retarded with respect to K at reunion due to time dilation. He then described the perspective of the traveling observer B by using two-way propagation of light from K' to K and back to K', leading to three periods defined by the moment of B's turnaround: In the first period the light signals return to K' before turnaround; in the second period the signals are emitted before turnaround and return after turnaround; in the third period emission and return of the signals are both happening after turnaround. Lorentz showed that K is time dilated by a factor of &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; with respect to K' in the first and third period, but in the second period K is ticking ''faster'' than K' by a factor of &lt;math&gt;\sqrt{\tfrac{c+v}{c-v}}&lt;/math&gt; which overcompensates the dilation in the other periods and explains, even from the perspective of B, why K' is retarded with respect to K at reunion.

{{Lorentzbox|Text=In a review of the German translation of Lorentz's book, Einstein (1914) didn't directly mention Lorentz's treatment of the twin paradox, but he wrote that nobody who is seriously interested in relativity should neglect to read that book.&lt;ref name=einstlor /&gt; [[w:Wolfgang Pauli|Pauli]] (1921) refers to Lorentz's book as one of three papers that analyze the twin paradox more closely.&lt;ref name=pauli /&gt;}}

|-

|valign=top| [[w:Albert Einstein|Einstein]]

1916-1920

|{{anchor|Einstein 1916-EP}}In a lecture from 1916,&lt;ref name=einstein16 /&gt; of which only an abstract was published, Einstein spoke about the &quot;clock paradox of special relativity from the standpoint of [[w:general relativity]].&quot;

{{anchor|Einstein 1918a-EP}}In a letter from September 1918,&lt;ref name=einadl /&gt; Einstein showed that general relativity makes the inertial frame K and and the accelerated frame K' of the clocks in the round-trip experiment &quot;equally justified&quot;, explaining the time difference in K' by combining the influence of velocity and gravitational potential on clocks.

{{anchor|Einstein 1918-EP}}In his famous &quot;Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity&quot; from November 1918,&lt;ref name=einstein18 /&gt; aimed at clarifying misconceptions of the clock paradox, he explained that there is no paradox in special relativity because there is no symmetry between clock U1 at rest in inertial frame K and clock U2 at rest in accelerated frame K' (see {{slink||Einstein 1918-AC}}). Yet [[w:general relativity]] and the [[w:equivalence principle]] allow the treatment of this problem also from the standpoint of frame K', where clock U2 remains at rest all of the time while U1 makes the following movements: (1) It is accelerated by a homogeneous gravitational field in the negative direction, (2) it moves with constant velocity &lt;math&gt;-v&lt;/math&gt;, (3) it is accelerated in the positive direction until it turns around and comes by with constant velocity &lt;math&gt;+v&lt;/math&gt;, (4) it moves with velocity &lt;math&gt;+v&lt;/math&gt;, (5) it is accelerated in the negative direction until it stops. Clock U1 is retarded with respect to U2 in periods 2) and 4) due to velocity time dilation, but this retardation is overcompensated by the faster rate of U1 during period 3), because U1 is at a higher gravitational potential. He argued that the computation (which he didn't provide) shows that the advance of U1 in period 3) is double its retardation during periods 2) and 4). Einstein concluded that by this consideration &quot;the paradox is completely resolved&quot;. Using [[w:Mach's principle]], he pointed out that the gravitational field in K' might be induced by the masses of the universe that are accelerated in this frame.

{{anchor|Einstein 1918b-EP}}In a letter to Einstein from December 1918, [[w:Max Jakob|Jakob]] doubted the result that the advance in period 3) is double the retardation during periods 2) and 4). Einstein responded by letter,&lt;ref name=einstein18b /&gt; in which he used the gravitational time dilation factor &lt;math&gt;1+\Phi/c^{2}&lt;/math&gt; in K' in order to show that U1 at distance &lt;math&gt;l&lt;/math&gt; is advancing by &lt;math&gt;\Phi/c^{2}=2vl/c^{2}&lt;/math&gt; in period 3), which is indeed the double of approximated delay &lt;math&gt;vl/c^{2}&lt;/math&gt; caused by velocity time dilation during periods 2) and 4).

{{anchor|Einstein 1921-EP}}Einstein is reported to have said in an interview from 1920,&lt;ref name=einstein20 /&gt; that while acceleration explains the age difference between the stationary twin B and the traveling twin A in terms of special relativity (see {{slink||Einstein 1920-AC}}), the &quot;proper&quot; description in terms of general relativity is as follows:

{| 

! width=50% | German original

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | Eine tiefere Erfassung des Grundes ist indeß nur auf dem Boden der „Allgemeinen Relativitätstheorie&quot; zu erlangen, die uns erkennen läßt, daß von A aus beurteilt ein Zentrifugalfeld existiert, von B aus betrachtet aber nicht; und dieses Feld hat einen Einfluß auf den relativen Ablauf und die Raschheit der Lebensvorgänge.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | A proper grasp of the reason is furnished only when we adopt the general theory of relativity, which tell us that, from the point of view of A, a centrifugal field exists, whereas it is absent from the point of view of B. This field exerts an influence on the relative rate of happening of the events of life.&quot;
|}

{{Lorentzbox|Text=a) Einstein's explanation was quickly adopted in the textbooks of [[w:Werner Bloch|Bloch]] (1920),&lt;ref name=bloch2 /&gt; [[w:Wolfgang Pauli|Pauli]] (1921),&lt;ref name=pauli /&gt; [[w:August Kopff|Kopff]] (1921),&lt;ref name=kopff /&gt; [[w:Karl Bollert|Bollert]] (1921),&lt;ref name=bollert1 /&gt; [[w:Max Born|Born]] (1921),&lt;ref name=born /&gt; expressing the view that general relativity is &quot;necessary&quot; to provide the &quot;complete&quot; solution of the twin paradox.
b) From a modern standpoint, however, Einstein's explanation has nothing to do with general relativity, but is rather an application of accelerated frames and &quot;pseudo&quot;-gravitational fields to flat Minkowski space of ''special'' relativity.&lt;ref name=weiss group=S /&gt;}}

|-

|[[w:Hans Thirring|Thirring]]&lt;ref name=thirring /&gt;

April 1921

|{{anchor|Thirring 1921-DS}}[[Image:Twin Paradox Minkowski Diagram.svg|right|200px]]
He described the round-trip experiment by using two platforms K (clock A) and K' (clock B) each equipped with rows of clocks. He first demonstrated the symmetry of time dilation and the mutual relativity of simultaneity on the platforms and its effect on clock synchronization. The K clocks that B passes are all advanced because of &lt;math&gt;t'=\gamma\left(t-vx/c^{2}\right)&lt;/math&gt;, and the same is true after turnaround since only the direction of velocity has to be changed in the Lorentz transformation &lt;math&gt;t'-t'_{0}=\gamma\left(t+vx/c^{2}\right)&lt;/math&gt; leading to the effect of clock desynchronization, where &lt;math&gt;t'_{0}&lt;/math&gt; is a constant depending on which clock one uses as standard for the new synchronization. He graphically showed using Minkowski diagrams, that this simultaneity jump due to desynchronization amounts to double the velocity time dilation during the inertial phases, explaining why A is more advanced than B at reunion. 

{{Lorentzbox|Text=Using clock B as synchronization standard, Thirring's constant is given by &lt;math&gt;t'_{0}=2l\gamma v/c^{2}=2t\gamma v^{2}/c^{2}&lt;/math&gt; with &lt;math&gt;l=vt&lt;/math&gt; as position of turnaround. A similar explanation was subsequently given by Langevin (1922).&lt;ref name=morand /&gt;}}

|}

==Curved spacetime==

While the previous examples are defined in flat Minkowski spacetime and therefore can be fully discussed in terms of special relativity, [[general relativity]] is required when [[:w:spacetime curvature]] in the presence of mass and energy cannot be neglected any more.&lt;ref name=koks group=S /&gt; 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

|-

! Author !! Early examples

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|[[w:Jean Becquerel|Becquerel]]&lt;ref name=becqu1 /&gt;

1922

|After defining gravitational time dilation &lt;math&gt;d\tau=\sqrt{1-\tfrac{2GM}{c^{2}r}}dt&lt;/math&gt; in terms of the [[w:Schwarzschild metric]] around a material center, he discussed the following round-trip experiment: There are two identical clocks A and B placed next to each other, at a point very far from the material center, initially marking the same time &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt;. Let us transport clock A to a point where the field is more intense, at a distance &lt;math&gt;r&lt;/math&gt; from the center; this clock will measure time &lt;math&gt;\int d\tau&lt;/math&gt; which is shorter than &lt;math&gt;\int dt&lt;/math&gt;, thus it will run more slowly. If we bring clock A back to clock B, we will have to note that it is retarded with respect to B.

|}

==Paradoxical?==

{| class=wikitable style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot;

! width=50% | German original of [[w:Max von Laue|Laue]] (1911/12):&lt;ref name=laue1&gt;Laue introduces the word &quot;paradox&quot;, alludes to Berg and discusses Wiechert, in: {{citation |author=Laue, M. v. |title=Zwei Einwände gegen die Relativitätstheorie und ihre Widerlegung |journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift |volume=13 |issue=3|date=February 1912|orig-date=Submitted December 1911|pages=118–120|url=https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0013/page/148}}; {{icon|wikisource}} See also English translation [[:s:Translation:Two Objections Against the Theory of Relativity and their Refutation|Two Objections Against the Theory of Relativity and their Refutation]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

! English translation

|-

|Unter all den paradox erscheinenden Folgerungen aus der Zeittransformation der Relativitätstheorie gibt es wohl keine, gegen welche sich der natürliche Menschenverstand bei jedem, der der Sache noch ungewohnt ist, so sehr sträubt, wie gegen die, daß die Zeitangabe einer Uhr von ihrem Bewegungszustand abhängen soll. Schon in seiner grundlegenden Arbeit hat Einstein diese Paradoxie auf die Spitze getrieben in einem Gedankenexperiment, welches neuerdings von Langevin in einem auch sonst sehr lesenswerten Vortrage besonders hübsch erläutert worden ist.

|Of all apparently paradox consequences that stem from the time-transformation of the theory of relativity, there is probably none against which the common sense of anyone who is still unfamiliar with the matter is more reluctant, than the one according to which the time indication of a clock shall be dependent on its state of motion. Already in his fundamental paper, Einstein has driven this paradox to the extreme by a thought experiment, recently explained in a very nice way by Langevin in a lecture that is also very readable in other respects.

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=Laue was probably the first to denote the round-trip experiment as paradoxical (even though he pointed out that there are no real contradictions). Subsequently, [[:w:Paul Gruner|Gruner]] (1912)&lt;ref name=gruner /&gt; and others including Einstein (1918)&lt;ref name=einstein18 /&gt; explicitly used the expression &quot;clock paradox&quot; (French: Paradoxe des horloges, German: Uhrenparadoxon), whereas [[w:Rudolf Seeliger|Seeliger]] (1913)&lt;ref name=seel /&gt; spoke of the &quot;familiar Einstein-Langevinian paradox&quot; (German: &quot;bekannte Einstein-Langevinsche Paradoxon&quot;).}}

|}

==Misunderstandings==

{| class=wikitable style=&quot;background-color:white;&quot; 

! width=50% padding=10 | German original by [[w:Otto Berg (scientist)|Berg]] (1910):&lt;ref name=berg /&gt;

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Im Punkte &lt;math&gt;x = 0&lt;/math&gt; des Systems S befinde sich eine Uhr, eine andere im Punkte &lt;math&gt;x'=0&lt;/math&gt; von S'. Diese zweite bewege sich mit S' bis zum Punkte &lt;math&gt;x = a&lt;/math&gt;, kehre dort um und bewege sich nun mit der Geschwindigkeit &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; zurück bis zum Punkte &lt;math&gt;x= 0&lt;/math&gt;. Welche Zeit müssen beide Uhren in dem Moment angeben, wo sie sich wieder treffen? Wir beantworten diese Frage zunächst vom Standpunkt des Beobachters in S. Die Uhr in &lt;math&gt;x' = 0&lt;/math&gt; hat sich mit der Geschwindigkeit &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; bis zum Punkte &lt;math&gt;x = a&lt;/math&gt; bewegt; dazu brauchte sie die Zeit &lt;math&gt;\tau=\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt;. Zum Rückweg ist dieselbe Zeit nötig. Nach der Zeit &lt;math&gt;2\tau=2\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt; ist die Uhr also wieder im Punkte &lt;math&gt;x = 0&lt;/math&gt; angelangt. Wir stellen uns nun auf den Standpunkt des Beobachters in S'. Für diesen führt nach dem Relativitätsprinzip das System S genau dieselben Bewegungen aus wie das System S' für den Beobachter in S, nur in entgegengesetzter Richtung. Die Zeit bis zum Zusammentreffen beider Uhren ist also im System S' ebenfalls gegeben durch &lt;math&gt;2\tau=2\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt;. Betrachtungen, die auf anschauliche Vorstellungen, wie Nachgehen von Uhren, gestützt sind, führen hier leicht zu Irrtümern, von denen auch die Fachlitteratur nicht frei ist.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |There is a clock at point &lt;math&gt;x=0&lt;/math&gt; of system S, and another one at point &lt;math&gt;x'=0&lt;/math&gt; of S'. The second one moves together with S' until point &lt;math&gt;x=a&lt;/math&gt;, turns around and now moves back with speed &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; to point &lt;math&gt;x=0&lt;/math&gt;. Which time must both clocks indicate at the moment at which they encounter again? We answer this question at first from the standpoint of the observer in S. The clock at &lt;math&gt;x=0&lt;/math&gt; has been moving with speed &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; until point &lt;math&gt;x=a&lt;/math&gt;, for which it required time &lt;math&gt;\tau=\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt;. The same time is required for the way back. After time &lt;math&gt;2\tau=2\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt; the clock has thus arrived again at point &lt;math&gt;x=0&lt;/math&gt;. Let's now take the standpoint of the observer in S'. In his view in accordance with the relativity principle, system S is conducting exactly the same motions as those of system S' with respect to the observer in S, only in opposite direction. Thus the time until the meeting of both clocks is given by &lt;math&gt;2\tau=2\tfrac{a}{v}&lt;/math&gt; in system S' as well. Considerations based on illustrative notions, such as the retardation of clocks, easily lead to mistakes at this place, of which also the professional literature isn't free.

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=Berg was probably the first to turn the relativity principle against asymmetric aging in the round-trip experiment, claiming that both clocks must indicate the same time at reunion. See [[w:Twin paradox]] as well as sections {{slink||Acceleration as asymmetry indicator|Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator|Perspective of the traveler}} for the solution of that problem.}}

|-

! width=50% | German original by [[w:Emil Wiechert|Wiechert]] (1911)&lt;ref name=wiechert11 /&gt;

! English translation

|-

|colspan=2| Even though he correctly derived differential clock aging in the round-trip experiment, he claimed that effects like time dilation are &quot;apparent&quot; if one admits Einstein's &quot;unconditional&quot; relativity principle in which there is no aether and all &quot;strides&quot; (i.e. non-accelerated motions) are physically equivalent, but they are &quot;real&quot; if one admits the existence of an aether in the framework of a &quot;conditional&quot; relativity principle in which all strides are physically non-equivalent or anisotropic. This led him to the following interpretation of the clock paradox:

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |[...] so muß am Schluß des Versuches B in seinem Fortschritt gegenüber A im Verhältnis &lt;math&gt;1:\sqrt{1-u^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; zurückgeblieben sein. Und dieses Zurückbleiben ist unbedingt reell, denn die beiden Gebilde A und B können ja unter gleichen Umständen unmittelbar beieinander verglichen werden. Hier ist es ganz sicher ausgeschlossen, an einen Schein zu glauben, der durch unsere Auffassung der Zeit bewirkt wird. So ist denn also auch die Folgerung unabwendbar, daß für den Verlauf der Weltvorgänge die Schreitungen nicht gleichwertig sind, ''und damit sind wir von neuem zu einem Schluß gekommen, welcher der Unbedingtheit des Relativitätsprinzipes durchaus widerspricht.'' [...] Man kann den Versuch noch mannigfach variieren, z. B. so, daß A ebenso wie B zwei verschiedene Schreitungen, &lt;math&gt;+u&lt;/math&gt; und &lt;math&gt;-u&lt;/math&gt;, nacheinander inne hat. Wird dann zu A der Wert &lt;math&gt;u_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, zu B  der Wert &lt;math&gt;u_{2}&lt;/math&gt;, zugeordnet, so muß der Vergleich von A  und B am Schluß des Versuches ergeben, daß B  oder A in seinem Fortschritt zurückgeblieben erscheint, je nachdem die Schreitungen &lt;math&gt;+u_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, &lt;math&gt;-u_{1}&lt;/math&gt;, oder &lt;math&gt;+u_{2}&lt;/math&gt;, &lt;math&gt;-u_{2}&lt;/math&gt; weiter auseinanderliegen. ''Vielleicht ist gerade diese Formulierung des Satzes besonders geeignet, um die Ungleichwertigkeit der verschiedenen Schreitungen klar und deutlich zu zeigen.''

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | [...] thus B's progress must be retarded with respect to A's in the ratio &lt;math&gt;1:\sqrt{1-u^{2}/c^{2}}&lt;/math&gt; at the end of the experiment. And this retardation is definitely real, since both bodies A and B indeed can be immediately compared side by side under the same conditions. Here it is certainly excluded to believe that this is an appearance due to our conception of time. Thus the consequence is unavoidable too, that the strides are not equivalent in the course of the world processes, ''and therefore we again came to a conclusion that completely contradicts the unconditionality of the relativity principle.'' [...] One can vary this experiment in many ways, for instance, so that A in the same way as B successively undergoes two different strides &lt;math&gt;+u&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;-u&lt;/math&gt;. If we apply the value &lt;math&gt;u_{1}&lt;/math&gt; to A and &lt;math&gt;u_{2}&lt;/math&gt; to B, then the comparison of A and B at the end of the experiment must give the result, that B or A is retarded in its progress depending on whether the strides &lt;math&gt;+u_{2},-u_{2}&lt;/math&gt; or &lt;math&gt;+u_{1},-u_{1}&lt;/math&gt; are further apart. ''Probably it is precisely this formulation of the theorem that is particularly suitable to demonstrate the non-equivalence of the different strides clearly and explicitly.''

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=This interpretation was directly rebutted by Laue (1911/12) who demonstrated the geometrical meaning of differential aging in Minkowski space, see sections {{slink||Laue 1911/12-PT|Laue 1911/12-VA}}, showing that there is no need to assume non-equivalance or anisotropy of motions. Laue added, that as long as there is no experimental contradiction to the relativity principle, the question after the aether can be banned from physics and left to philosophy.&lt;ref name=laue1 /&gt;}}

|-

! width=50% | German original by [[w:Norman Robert Campbell|Campbell]] (November 1911, published 1912)&lt;ref name=camp /&gt;

! English translation

|-

|colspan=2|After describing the round-trip experiment (as given by Wiechert) according to which the traveling clock B is retarded when it returns with respect to stationary clock A, he abandoned differential clock aging as follows: 

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |Dieser Schluß ist nicht richtig. Die Beziehung zwischen &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt;, der Ablesung an der Uhr auf A seitens des Beobachters auf A und &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt;, der Ablesung an der Uhr auf B seitens des Beobachters auf A, ist (unter der Annahme, daß zu Beginn des Versuchs &lt;math&gt;t=t'&lt;/math&gt; ist)
:&lt;math&gt;t'=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}}\left(t-vz/c^{2}\right)&lt;/math&gt;. 
Der Unterschied zwischen &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; ist eine Funktion von &lt;math&gt;z&lt;/math&gt; und &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; allein. Wenn man diesen Größen ihre früheren Werte wiedergibt, indem man die beiden Uhren wieder zur Koinzidenz bringt, während sie relativ zueinander ruhen, so geht der Unterschied zwischen &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; wieder auf null zurück, gleichviel, welche Werte &lt;math&gt;z&lt;/math&gt; und &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; während der Zwischenzeit gehabt haben mögen. Wenn an irgendeinem Punkte der Bahn die Geschwindigkeit von B relativ zu A eine endliche plötzliche Änderung erfährt, so erfährt auch der Wert von &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; eine endliche plötzliche Änderung.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |This conclusion is not correct. The relationship between &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; as the reading on the clock on A by the observer on A, and &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; as the reading on the clock on B by the observer on A, is given by (assuming that &lt;math&gt;t=t'&lt;/math&gt; at the beginning of the experiment)
:&lt;math&gt;t'=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-v^{2}/c^{2}}}\left(t-vz/c^{2}\right)&lt;/math&gt;. 
The difference between &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; is a function of &lt;math&gt;z&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; alone. If these quantities are given their previous values by bringing the two clocks back to coincidence during which they are at rest relative to one another, the difference between &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;t&lt;/math&gt; goes back to zero, no matter what values &lt;math&gt;z&lt;/math&gt; and &lt;math&gt;v&lt;/math&gt; may have had in the meantime. If at any point on the path the speed of B experiences a finite sudden change relative to A, then the value of &lt;math&gt;t'&lt;/math&gt; also undergoes a finite sudden change.

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=So Campbell claims that any time difference during the outbound path is wiped out during the inbound path. His mistake is obvious: Campbell is confusing coordinate differences stemming from the Lorentz transformation of ''events'' (which indeed depend on position and direction) with differences in ''clock aging'' derived from the proper time integral (which is ''accumulative'' and independent of position and direction.)}}

|-

! width=50% | French original by [[w:Paul Gruner|Gruner]] (March 1912):&lt;ref name=gruner /&gt;

! English translation

|-

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; |[...] deux personnes du même âge, se séparant dans des systèmes de « marche » très différents et retournant après un laps de temps assez long, constateront une différence d'âge très sensible. [...] le principe de relativité exige toujours la ''réciprocité parfaite'' des phénomènes entre deux systèmes qui possèdent un mouvement relatif. Si, dans l'exemple cité, les deux personnes du même âge se séparent avec une vitesse relative pour se retrouver plus tard, la constatation d'une différence d'âge sera parfaitement mutuelle : A dira positivement que B est resté en arrière dans son développement, et B affirmera avec le même droit que c'est A qui ne s'est pas développé assez vite. Ainsi le principe absolu de la relativité montre ses conséquences les plus extrèmes et il est clair que l'introduction de l’éther n'est plus en état de résoudre cette contradiction irréductible et inconcevable.

| style=&quot;padding: 0px 20px 0px 20px;&quot; | [...] two people of same age, separating into very different systems of motion and returning after a quite long period of time, will notice a very significant age difference. [...] the principle of relativity always requires the ''perfect reciprocity'' of the phenomenons between two systems that possess relative motion. When, in the cited example, the two persons of same age are separated by some relative velocity only to meet again later, the finding of an age difference will be perfectly mutual: A will positively say that B stayed behind in its development, and B will assert with same right that it was A who has not developed fast enough. By that, the absolute relativity principle shows its most extreme consequences and it is clear, that the introduction of the aether is no longer able to resolve this irreducible and inconceivable contradiction.

|-

|colspan=2|{{Lorentzbox|Text=Gruner was probably the first to claim that combining the round-trip experiment with the symmetry of time dilation leads to the contradictory situation, that both must attribute younger age to one another at reunion. At the end of his paper, we also find the expression &quot;clock paradox&quot; (French: paradoxe des horloges). See [[w:Twin paradox]] as well as sections {{slink||Acceleration as asymmetry indicator|Frame distribution as asymmetry indicator|Perspective of the traveler}} for the solution of that problem.}}

|}

==Historical references==

&lt;references&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein05&gt;See p. 904f in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1905 |title=Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper|journal=Annalen der Physik |volume=322 |issue=10 |pages=891–921 |doi=10.1002/andp.19053221004|quote=Reprinted in ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 2, Document 23}}. See also: [https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/ English translation at fourmilab].&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein11a&gt;See p. 10. in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |title=Die Relativitäts-Theorie|journal=Naturforschende Gesellschaft, Zürich, Vierteljahresschrift |volume=56 |issue=1-2|pages=1–14 |date=27 November 1911|orig-date=Lecture 16 January 1911|url=https://archive.org/details/naturforschendegesellschaftinzurich_vierteljahrsschriftdernaturforschendengesellschaftinzur_v56_1911/page/n11/mode/2up|quote=Reprinted in ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 3, Document 17}}.&lt;br /&gt; The publication date 27 November 1911 can be seen on the [https://archive.org/details/naturforschendegesellschaftinzurich_vierteljahrsschriftdernaturforschendengesellschaftinzur_v56_1911/page/n5/mode/2up Title page and TOC of issue 1-2].&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein3&gt;Discussion between Einstien, Müller, Lämmel and others after the Zürich lecture: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A.; Müller, F., Lämmel, R.|title=Diskussion zu &quot;Die Relativitäts-Theorie&quot;|journal=Naturforschende Gesellschaft, Zürich, Vierteljahresschrift |volume=56 |pages=II-IX |date=January 1912|orig-date=Lecture on 16 January 1911|url=https://archive.org/details/naturforschendegesellschaftinzurich_vierteljahrsschriftdernaturforschendengesellschaftinzur_v56_1911/page/n587/mode/2up|quote=Reprinted in  ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 3, Document 18, and in the corresponding English translation volume}}&lt;br /&gt; While the discussion already happened on January 1911, the publication followed one year later in January 1912 in the session proceedings (Sitzungsberichte) of the third issue, see [https://www.ngzh.ch/publikationen/vjs/56/3 Full issue Nr. 3] with [http://www.ngzh.ch/archiv/1911_56/56_1-2/56_3.pdf Title page and TOC] and the [http://www.ngzh.ch/archiv/1911_56/56_3/56_30.pdf Sitzungsberichte including Einstein's discussion on pp. II-IX]. &lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einst12manu&gt;See p. 46 in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1912 |chapter=Document 1: Einstein's manuscript on the special theory of relativity|title=The collected papers of Albert Einstein|volume=4|pages=3-108|trans-chapter=See also the English translation in the corresponding translation volume}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstlor&gt;{{Citation|author=Einstein, A.|date=1914|title=Review of &quot;Lorentz, H. A. – Das Relativitätsprinzip&quot; |journal=Die Naturwissenschaften|volume=2|pages=1018|url=https://archive.org/details/CAT31421305002/page/1018/mode/2up|quote=Reprinted in  ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 6, Document 11}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstpetz&gt;{{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1914 |chapter=Document 5: Letter from Einstein to Petzoldt|title=The collected papers of Albert Einstein|volume=8a|pages=16-17|trans-chapter=See also the English translation in the corresponding translation volume}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein16&gt;See p. 423f in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1916 |title=Announcement of Einstein's lecture &quot;Über einige anschauliche Überlegungen aus dem Gebiete der Relativitätstheorie&quot;|journal=Berliner Sitzungsberichte|pages=423|volume=1916 (part 1)|url=https://archive.org/details/sitzungsberichte1916deutsch/page/423/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einadl&gt;Letter exchange between Einstein and Adler in which the critique on the clock paradox by Berg (1910) and Petzoldt (1914) was mentioned, together with the general relativity solution in terms of the gravitational potential, in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1918 |chapter=Adler's letter in Document 620 and Einstein's reply in Document 628|title=The collected papers of Albert Einstein|volume=8a|pages=16-17|trans-chapter=See also the English translation in the corresponding translation volume}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein18&gt;Einstein discussed in terms of inertial frames (special relativity) on pp. 697f; accelerated frames (general relativity) on pp. 698f.; distant masses (Mach's principle) on pp. 700f. in: {{citation |author=Einstein, A.|title=Dialog über Einwände gegen die Relativitätstheorie|date=November 1918|volume=6|issue=48|journal=Die Naturwissenschaften|pages=697-702|url=https://archive.org/details/sim_naturwissenschaften_1918-11-29_6_48|quote=Reprinted in ''The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein'', Vol. 7, Document 13}}; See also English translation [[:s:Translation:Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity|Dialog about Objections against the Theory of Relativity]] on Wikisource.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein18b&gt;Letter exchange between Max Jakob and Einstein from December 1918, in: {{Citation |author=Einstein, A. |date=1918 |chapter=Jakob's letter in Document 661c and Einstein's reply in Document 663a|title=The collected papers of Albert Einstein|volume=10|pages=189-190}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=einstein20&gt;Interview of Einstein by Moszkowski, see p. 204f. in: {{citation |author=Moszkowski, A.|title=Einstein. Einblicke in seine Gedankenwelt|orig-date=Copyright date 1920 |date=1921|place=Hamburg|url=https://www.archive.org/details/einsteineinblick00moszuoft}}; See also English translation by H. L. [[Henry Brose|Brose]] (1921): [https://archive.org/details/einsteinsearch00moszrich Einstein, the searcher], p. 206&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=morand&gt;Discussion between Painlevé, Einstein, and Langevin on p. 316ff in: {{citation |author=Morand, M.|title=Einstein au collège de france|date=April 1922|journal=La Nature|volume=50|issue=2511|pages=315-320|url=http://cnum.cnam.fr/CGI/fpage.cgi?4KY28.102/319/100/620/5/613}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lammel&gt;{{Citation|author=Lämmel, R.|date=28 April 1911|title=Die Relativitäts-Lehre|journal=Neue Zürcher Zeitung|volume=117|pages=1|url=https://www.e-newspaperarchives.ch/?a=d&amp;d=NZZ19110428-01.2.4.1}}; English translation of the part concering the twin pardox at [[:v:History of Topics in Special Relativity/Twin paradox#Lämmel 1911-Hum|Wikiversity:Early history of the twin paradox - Lämmel]]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lammel2&gt;See p. 84ff in: {{Citation|author=Lämmel, R.|date=1921|orig-date=Preface December 1920|title=Die Grundlagen der Relativitätstheorie|place=Berlin|publisher=Springer|url=https://archive.org/details/diegrundlagende00lmgoog}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=langevin1&gt;He derived differential aging from the proper time integral; pointed out that this demonstrates the &quot;absolute nature of acceleration&quot; with respect to an aether, see: {{citation |author=Langevin, P.|title=[[:s:fr:L’Évolution de l’espace et du temps|L’Évolution de l’espace et du temps]]|journal=Scientia |volume=X |pages=31–54 |date=July 1911|orig-date=Lecture 10 April 1911}}; English translation [[:s:en:Translation:The Evolution of Space and Time|The Evolution of Space and Time]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=langevin2&gt;See p. 329 in: {{citation |author=Langevin, P. |title=Le temps, l'espace et la causalité dans la physique moderne |journal=Bulletin de la Société française de philosophie |volume=12 |orig-date=Lecture October 1911|date=1912|pages=1-28|url=http://ahp.li/1f7fc22d283fdf0deeca.pdf}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=wiechert11&gt;See p. 745f. general description and proper time; 757f. space travel; in: {{Citation |author=Wiechert, E. |date=September 1911|orig-date=Lectures March-May 1911, submitted 26 July|title=[[:s:de:Relativitätsprinzip und Äther|Relativitätsprinzip und Äther]]|journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift |volume=12 |issue=17-18 |pages=[https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0012/page/741 689-707] published September 1; [https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0012/page/789 737–758] published September 15}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=wiechert15&gt;See p. 46 (Einstein, Langevin, Wiechert) and pp. 51f (Laue versus Wiechert) in: {{citation |author=Wiechert, E.|contribution=Die Mechanik im Rahmen der allgemeinen Physik| title=Die Kultur der Gegenwart: Physik|volume=3.3.1|date=1915 |orig-date=Submitted July 1914|pages=1–78|contribution-url=https://www.archive.org/details/physikunterredak00warbuoft}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=wiechert20&gt;See p. 46f in: {{citation |author=Wiechert, E.|title=Der Äther im Weltbild der Physik|orig-date=Presented December 1920|date=1921|journal=Nachrichten von der Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften zu Göttingen, Mathematisch-Physikalische Klasse|pages=29-70|url=http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/dms/resolveppn/?PPN=GDZPPN00250586X}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=wiechert21&gt;See p. 25ff in: {{citation |author=Wiechert, E.|title=[[:s:de:Prinzipielles über Äther und Relativität|Prinzipielles über Äther und Relativität]]|date=1922|orig-date=Lecture September 1921|journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift|volume=23|pages=25-28}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=muller&gt;See p. 9 in: {{Citation|author=Müller, F.|date=October 1911|journal=Berliner Tageblatt|title=[[:s:de:Das Zeitproblem (1911)|Das Zeitproblem]]|pages=[https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/2QKOIOLGNVQILTCEZQOGQPLTRVLPM5PZ?query=zeit&amp;issuepage=9 Part 1 published 16 October 1911] and [https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/IO44I6QBC4SVV5YUKUDSGXYIPQUXXBN5?query=zeit&amp;issuepage=11 Part 2 published 23 October 1911]}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=gruner&gt;See p. 253f in: {{Citation |author=Gruner, P. |title=[[:s:fr:Rapport sur la dernière discussion concernant le principe de la relativité et l’éther|Rapport sur la dernière discussion concernant le principe de la relativité et l’éther]] |journal=Archives des sciences physiques et naturelles |volume=33|issue=4 |pages=252-254 |date=March 1912}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=laue3&gt;See p. 113f in: {{citation |author=Laue, M. v. |title=Das Relativitätsprinzip |journal=Jahrbücher der Philosophie |volume=1 |date=1913 |pages=99–128}}; {{icon|wikisource}} See also English translation of [[:s:Translation:The Principle of Relativity (Laue, Philosophy)|The Principle of Relativity]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=weyl&gt;See p. 147f. in: {{Citation |author=Weyl, H. |date=March 1918|title=Raum-Zeit-Materie (first edition)|publisher=Berlin: Springer|url=https://archive.org/details/RaumZeitMaterieVolIMeinerFrauGewidmet}}; English translation of the 4th edition by H. [[Henry Brose|Brose]] (1921): [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/43006 Space—Time—Matter], pp. 278f.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=gbaum&gt;See footnote on p. 507 in: {{Citation|author=Grünbaum, F. |title=Über einige ideelle Versuche zum Relativitätsprinzip|journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift|volume=12|pages=500–509|date=1911|url=https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0012/page/540}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=laue1&gt;Laue introduces the word &quot;paradox&quot;, alludes to Berg and discusses Wiechert, in: {{citation |author=Laue, M. v. |title=Zwei Einwände gegen die Relativitätstheorie und ihre Widerlegung |journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift |volume=13 |issue=3|date=February 1912|orig-date=Submitted December 1911|pages=118–120|url=https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0013/page/148}}; {{icon|wikisource}} See also English translation [[:s:Translation:Two Objections Against the Theory of Relativity and their Refutation|Two Objections Against the Theory of Relativity and their Refutation]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=laue2&gt;See p. 42f. for general description; p. 58f. in terms of proper time; in: {{Citation |author=Laue, M. v. |orig-date=Preface December 1912|date=1913 |title=Das Relativitätsprinzip (Second Edition) |publisher=Vieweg |place=Braunschweig|url=https://preserver.beic.it/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE4597082}}; See also English translation [[:s:Translation:The Principle of Relativity (Laue 1913)|The Principle of Relativity, Second edition, Part III]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=laue3&gt;See p. 113f in: {{citation |author=Laue, M. v. |title=Das Relativitätsprinzip |journal=Jahrbücher der Philosophie |volume=1 |date=1913 |pages=99–128}}; {{icon|wikisource}} See also English translation of [[:s:Translation:The Principle of Relativity (Laue, Philosophy)|The Principle of Relativity]] on Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=berg&gt;See p. 369f in: {{Citation |author=Berg, O. |date=1910 |title=Das Relativitätsprinzip der Elektrodynamik |journal=Abhandlungen der Fries'schen Schule |volume=3 |issue=2|pages=333-382 |url=http://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.hnuynk?urlappend=%3Bseq=351}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=camp&gt;See p. 123f in: {{Citation |author=Campbell, N. |title=Relativitätsprinzip und Äther: Eine Entgegnung an Herrn Wiechert |journal=Physikalische Zeitschrift |volume=13 |pages=120-128 |issue=3|orig-date=Submitted December 1911|date=February 1912|url=https://resolver.sub.uni-hamburg.de/kitodo/PPN891110208_0013/page/150}}. The is based on an English manuscript translated by Max Iklé, and Campbell's first name was Germanised as &quot;Normann&quot;.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=seel&gt;{{Citation|author=Seeliger, R.|title=Review of &quot;P. Gruner – Rapport sur la dernière discussion concernant le principe de la relativité et l'éther&quot;|journal=Die Fortschritte der Physik|volume=68|issue=2|pages=336|date=1913|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=fSJGAQAAMAAJ&amp;pg=PA336}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=study&gt;See footnote on p. 111 in: {{citation |author=Study, E. |title=Vorlesungen über ausgewählte Gegenstände der Geometrie |date=June 1911|url=https://archive.org/details/vorlesungenber00studuoft|publisher=B.G. Teubner|place=Leipzig}} &lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=robb1&gt;See pp. 356ff. in: {{Citation|author=Robb, A.|date=1914|title=A theory of time and space|place=Cambridge|publisher=University Press|url=https://archive.org/details/theoryoftimespac00robbrich}} &lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=robb2&gt;See §12 in: {{citation |author=Robb, A. A.|title=The Straight Path|date=1920 |journal=Nature|pages=599|volume=104|issue=2623|url=https://archive.org/details/sim_nature-uk_1920-02-05_104_2623/page/598/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=edding2&gt;See p. 22 in: {{Citation |author=Eddington, A. S. |date=1922 |title=The theory of relativity, and its influence on scientific thought |publisher=Oxford Clarendon Press |url=https://archive.org/details/cu31924005748573}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=rogers&gt;{{citation |author=Rogers, R. A. P.|title=The Time-Triangle and Time-Triad in Special Relativity|date=November 1922|journal=Nature|volume=110|issue=2769|pages=698–699|url=https://archive.org/details/sim_nature-uk_1922-11-25_110_2769/page/698/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lorentz1&gt;See pp. 37f, 55ff in: {{citation |author=Lorentz, H. A.|date=1913|title=Het relativiteitsbeginsel : drie voordrachten gehouden in Teyler's stichting|publisher=De Erven Loosjes |place=Haarlem|url=https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=MMKB24:063387000:00005}}; German translation on pp. 31f, 47f in: {{citation |author=Lorentz, H. A.|date=1914| title=Das Relativitätsprinzip. Drei Vorlesungen gehalten in Teylers Stiftung zu Haarlem|publisher=B.G. Teubner |place=Leipzig and Berlin|url=https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_89PPAAAAMAAJ}}; See also the transcription [[:s:de:Das Relativitätsprinzip (Lorentz)|Das Relativitätsprinzip]] on German Wikisource and the English translation [[:s:Translation:The Principle of Relativity (Lorentz)|The Principle of Relativity]] on English Wikisource&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lorentz3&gt;See §12 in: {{citation |author=Lorentz, H. A.|title=Considérations élémentaires sur le principe de relativité|date=1914 |journal=Revue générale des sciences pures et appliquées|pages=179-186|url=https://archive.org/details/revuegnraled25pari/page/178/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=bloch&gt;See pp. 67 ff. in: {{Citation | author=Bloch, W.| date=September 1918|title=Einführung in die Relativitätstheorie| publisher=B. G. Teubner |url=https://hdl.handle.net/2027/njp.32101040276907}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=bloch2&gt;See pp. 69ff. (special relativity) and 102ff. (general relativity) in: {{Citation | author=Bloch, W.| date=1920 |title=Einführung in die Relativitätstheorie (second edition)| publisher=B. G. Teubner |url=https://www.archive.org/details/einfhrungindier00blocgoog}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=bollert1&gt;See p. 6 (special relativity), pp. 24-26 (EP) in: {{citation |author=Bollert, K.|title=Einstein’s Relativitätstheorie und ihre Stellung im System der Gesamterfahrung |date=April 1921|publisher=Steinkopff|url=https://archive.org/details/dbc.wroc.pl.001504}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=born&gt;See pp. 190f. (special relativity), 250f (EP) in: {{Citation | author=Born, M.| date=1921 |title=Die Relativitätstheorie Einsteins und ihre physikalischen Grundlagen (Second edition)| publisher=Springer | place=Berlin|url=https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015017387310}}; The [https://preserver.beic.it/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE5426498 first edition (1920)] of Born's book didn't include the twin paradox. English translation of the third edition by H. Brose (1924): [https://archive.org/details/einsteinstheoryo00born Einstein's theory of relativity]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=pauli&gt;See p. 558f (general description); p. 624f (proper time); p. 713f (accelerated frames); in: {{Citation |author=Pauli, W. |date=1921 |journal=Encyclopädie der Mathematischen Wissenschaften|title=Die Relativitätstheorie|pages=539–776|volume=5|issue=2 |url=http://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?PPN360709672}}; English translation by G. Field (1958): [https://books.google.com/books?id=rc3DAgAAQBAJ Theory of Relativity]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=thirring&gt;See p. 209ff in: {{citation |author=Thirring, H.|title=Über das Uhrenparadoxon in der Relativitätstheorie|date=April 1921|journal=Naturwissenschaften|volume=9|issue=18|pages=209-212|url=https://archive.org/details/sim_naturwissenschaften_1921-04-01_9_13/mode/2up}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=sommerfeld&gt;See p. 71 in: {{citation |author=Sommerfeld, A. |date=May 1913|chapter=Remarks on Minkowski's &quot;Space and Time&quot;|title=Das Relativitätsprinzip|editor=Otto Blumenthal|pages=69-73|url=https://www.archive.org/details/dasrelativittsp00minkgoog}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=kopff&gt;See pp. 45ff (special relativity and proper time); pp. 117ff (EP); pp. 189ff (Mach's principle), in: {{citation |author=Kopff, A.|title=Grundzüge der Einsteinschen Relativitätstheorie |date=February 1921|publisher=S. Hirzel|place=Leipzig|url=https://www.archive.org/details/grundzgedereins00kopfgoog}}; English translation by H. Levy (1923): [https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015017188817 The mathematical theory of relativity].&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=becqu1&gt;See p. 48ff (proper time), p. 240f (general relativity) in: {{citation |author=Becquerel, J.|title=[[:s:fr:Le Principe de relativité et la théorie de la gravitation|Le Principe de relativité et la théorie de la gravitation]] |date=1922 |publisher=Gauthier-Villars|place=Paris}}; See also p. 57ff (proper time), p. 177f (general relativity) in: {{citation |author=Becquerel, J.|title=[[:s:fr:Exposé élémentaire de la théorie d’Einstein et de sa généralisation|Exposé élémentaire de la théorie d’Einstein et de sa généralisation]]|date=1922 |publisher=Payot|place=Paris}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;/references&gt;

==Secondary sources==

&lt;references group=S&gt;

&lt;ref name=miller&gt;{{Citation |author=Miller, A. I. |date=1981 |title=Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity. Emergence (1905) and early interpretation (1905–1911) |place=Reading |publisher=Addison–Wesley |isbn=978-0-201-04679-3}}; See section 7.4.13 (Langevin, Wiechert, Laue, Einstein), footnotes 29-34 of chapter 7 (Petzoldt, Sommerfeld, Bergson, Einstein)&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=lange&gt;{{Citation|author=Lange, L.|date=1927|title=The clock paradox of the theory of relativity|journal=The American Mathematical Monthly|volume=34|issue=1|pages=22-30|jstor=2299914}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=pes&gt;{{Citation |author=Pesic, P. |date=2003 |title=Einstein and the twin paradox |journal=European Journal of Physics |volume=24 |issue=6 |pages=585–590 |doi=10.1088/0143-0807/24/6/004}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=during&gt;{{Citation |author=During, É. |date=2014 |title=Langevin ou le paradoxe introuvable |journal=Revue de métaphysique et de morale |volume=84 |pages=513-527 |doi=10.3917/rmm.144.0513|doi-access=free}}; See pp. 515f (Langevin), 520f. (Einstein, Laue, Weyl, Painlevé).&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=debs&gt;{{Citation |author=Debs, T. A., &amp; Redhead, M. L. |title=The twin paradox and the conventionality of simultaneity |date=1996 |journal=American Journal of Physics |volume=64|issue=1| pages=384-392 |doi=10.1119/1.18252}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=alizzi&gt;{{Citation |author=Alizzi, A., Sen, A., &amp; Silagadze, Z. K.|title=Do moving clocks slow down? |year=2022 |journal=European Journal of Physics |volume=43|issue=6|pages=065601 |doi=10.1088/1361-6404/ac93ca|arxiv=2209.12654}}; Appendix B with reference to Lange and Halsbury&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=beng&gt;{{Citation |author=Benguigui, L. G. |date=2020 |title=A Tale Of Two Twins: The Langevin Experiment Of A Traveler To A Star |publisher=World Scientific|isbn=9789811219115}}; See early solutions (Einstein, Langevin, Lorentz, Born/Kopff) and the Bergson controversy. A shorter version appeared in {{arxiv|1212.4414}}.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=rowe&gt;{{Citation|author=Rowe, D. E.|date=2006|title=Einstein's allies and enemies: Debating relativity in Germany 1916–1920|journal=Interactions: Mathematics, Physics and Philosophy|pages=231-280|publisher=Springer|doi=10.1007/978-1-4020-5195-1_8}}; Covering the criticism of Gehrcke starting with 1912; discussion between Einstein and Gehrcke in 1914; Einstein's dialogue (1918) as response to antirelativists; the Weyland event in 1920 and Einstein's response.&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=weiss&gt;Weiss, W. (Physics FAQ): [https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/TwinParadox/twin_gr.html The Twin Paradox: The Equivalence Principle Analysis]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=cuvaj&gt;{{Citation |author=Cuvaj, C. |date=1971 |title=Paul Langevin and the theory of relativity|journal=Japanese studies in the history of science|volume=10| pages=113-142|url=http://www.isc.meiji.ac.jp/~sano/hssj/pdf/Cuvaj_C-1972-Langevin_Relativity-JSHS-No_10-pp113-142.pdf}}&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;ref name=koks&gt;Koks, D. (2018): [https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/sr-gr.html Physics FAQ: Where is the Boundary between Special and General Relativity?]&lt;/ref&gt;

&lt;/references&gt;

[[Category:History of special relativity]]

[[Category:Paradoxes]]</text>
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    <title>Bully Metric Timestamps</title>
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 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an alternative that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 1''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 1''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 1: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 1''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 2''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 2: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 2''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox Bully Timestamp
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon (Last 4 Digits)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta (Units)

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 2733 9B3A}}
| {{mono|9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1}}
| {{mono|99E4}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888}}
| {{mono|988E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
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|-
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 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an alternative that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 1''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 1''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 1: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 1''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 2''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 2: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 2''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox Bully Timestamp (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta (Units)

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1}}
| {{mono|99E4}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888}}
| {{mono|988E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>dnljc84lm55i5u2dcgzwsup5v5tmo4m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807258</id>
      <parentid>2807257</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T17:36:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807258</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14245" sha1="sd0s60gs86s9nhivbyrxojmndds88lp" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an alternative that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 1''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 1''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 1: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 1''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 2''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 2: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 2''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox Bully Timestamp (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta (Units)

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>sd0s60gs86s9nhivbyrxojmndds88lp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807259</id>
      <parentid>2807258</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T17:37:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807259</origin>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14251" sha1="gp8qcwy9h6p0g3gfcc8dd0d2qvohbq9" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an alternative that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 1''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 1''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 1: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 1''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 2''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 2: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 2''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta (Units)

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>gp8qcwy9h6p0g3gfcc8dd0d2qvohbq9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807260</id>
      <parentid>2807259</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T17:38:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807260</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14243" sha1="to2bnmwghgzr9tu750h09az2emgv01u" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an alternative that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 1''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 1''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 1: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 1''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 2''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 2: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 2''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>to2bnmwghgzr9tu750h09az2emgv01u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807262</id>
      <parentid>2807260</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T17:40:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807262</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14245" sha1="8w525z1l69uyo9bjql19qnlg624tqnd" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an alternative that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 1''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 1''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 1: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 1''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 2''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 2: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 2''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>8w525z1l69uyo9bjql19qnlg624tqnd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807286</id>
      <parentid>2807262</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:25:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807286</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14246" sha1="1dumgpfifglwzlnp8apjiev03geolke" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an alternative that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]


== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>1dumgpfifglwzlnp8apjiev03geolke</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807287</id>
      <parentid>2807286</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:26:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
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      <origin>2807287</origin>
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      <text bytes="14249" sha1="fdz16vau3xdshb3q4h3j4q6k5hxo3cp" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping options by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]


== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>fdz16vau3xdshb3q4h3j4q6k5hxo3cp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807288</id>
      <parentid>2807287</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:27:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807288</origin>
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      <text bytes="14241" sha1="b0rdhkb4o5ijfkbkeghevpd88iie8qz" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame attempt to solve this, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks this tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was recorded at the exact moment the UTC clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]


== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>b0rdhkb4o5ijfkbkeghevpd88iie8qz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807334</id>
      <parentid>2807288</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:43:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Why do we need Bully timestamps? */</comment>
      <origin>2807334</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14429" sha1="k56ysqeth8dyg7tutxe554p1pgm44ht" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' (see below) refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====
The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}
==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====
The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>k56ysqeth8dyg7tutxe554p1pgm44ht</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807335</id>
      <parentid>2807334</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:44:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Why do we need Bully timestamps? */</comment>
      <origin>2807335</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14420" sha1="oevsjnjzr6oeig7vmzlrf3cdbt1ubey" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>oevsjnjzr6oeig7vmzlrf3cdbt1ubey</sha1>
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      <id>2807336</id>
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      <text bytes="14420" sha1="6ikvac61znoak6l0w0ldd8h7w2l76m1" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>6ikvac61znoak6l0w0ldd8h7w2l76m1</sha1>
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      <id>2807337</id>
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        <id>695864</id>
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|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>01l5rcejnudxl3o2witkptjnl3vjkd2</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>2807338</id>
      <parentid>2807337</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:46:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Why do we need Bully timestamps? */</comment>
      <origin>2807338</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14431" sha1="hdk2h4eo9s07j1jmaw6apvjm8pra5mz" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These time zone offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
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        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Why do we need Bully timestamps? */</comment>
      <origin>2807339</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text bytes="14430" sha1="mkkx3fhklguhw4ztczxlguwdrhmznga" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These time zone offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec TAI)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>mkkx3fhklguhw4ztczxlguwdrhmznga</sha1>
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      <id>2807340</id>
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        <username>Unitfreak</username>
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      <text bytes="14426" sha1="0ihdbnz23mgaw0gm58efyufb94b6zgl" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These time zone offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the most precise and least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>0ihdbnz23mgaw0gm58efyufb94b6zgl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807341</id>
      <parentid>2807340</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:50:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Decontextualized Bully Timestamps */</comment>
      <origin>2807341</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14409" sha1="o9z3p23ztj18lo69b5gt0rlyyoyw2c5" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These time zone offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of environmental conditions; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>o9z3p23ztj18lo69b5gt0rlyyoyw2c5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807342</id>
      <parentid>2807341</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:52:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time */</comment>
      <origin>2807342</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="14432" sha1="t0u5i6kldjvf6573vapxujvnxy1vc1b" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These time zone offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of conditions at some specific geographic location; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret as belonging to an older, Earth-synched system.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>t0u5i6kldjvf6573vapxujvnxy1vc1b</sha1>
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      <id>2807343</id>
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      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:54:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time */</comment>
      <origin>2807343</origin>
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      <text bytes="14385" sha1="npw2zd5ipv14tvgvcsvgbsou7exviq7" xml:space="preserve">{| class=table style=&quot;width:100%;&quot;
|-
 | {{Original research}}
 | [https://physwiki.eeyabo.net/index.php/Main_Page &lt;small&gt;Development &lt;br/&gt;Area&lt;/small&gt;]
|}

[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

== Why do we need Bully timestamps? ==

All the timestamps in '''Figure 1''' refer to one single, simultaneous moment in time. The left frame illustrates the fragmentation of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) through time zones. For instance, on June 21, 1998, a UTC time of 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra, Ghana, was simultaneously 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. These time zone offsets are not based on science, but on '''political mandates''' that have resulted in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UTC_offsets 38 distinct UTC offsets], including confusing half- and quarter-hour increments. 

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;margin-right: 0; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;&quot;
|+ Figure 1: UTC Time Zones vs. Bully Timestamps.
|-
! Selected UTC Time Zones !! [https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Transformations_between_Time_Systems Decontextualized timestamps]
|-
| rowspan = 3 |
[[File:Timezone-boundary-builder_release_2023d.png|thumb|upright=1.0|
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 pm (JST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  7:59:29 pm (CST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  2:59:29 pm (EEST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 12:59:29 pm (IST)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at 11:59:29 am (GMT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  8:59:29 am (BRT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  4:59:29 am (PDT)&lt;/br&gt;
June 21, 1998 at  1:59:29 am (HST)&lt;/br&gt;
]]
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:32.184 (TT)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 12:00:00 (TAI)&lt;br/&gt;
06/21/1998 11:59:42 (GPS)
]]
|-
! Bully Timestamp
|-
||
[[File:WorldMap-Blank-Noborders.svg|thumb|8209 2800 0000 (+ 0.000 sec)]]
|}

==== Legacy Decontextualized Timestamps ====

The decontextualized timestamps (TAI, TT, GPS) in the upper-right frame of '''Figure 1''' attempt to solve the UTC geographic fragmentation problem, yet they remain &quot;cluttered&quot; by Gregorian formatting. Applying a Gregorian date—which is built to track the Sun—to an atomic standard is a '''category error'''. Seeing three different timestamps share the same date while differing by several &quot;leap&quot; seconds is intellectually disorienting because the date has been stripped of its astronomical meaning. In these technical contexts, the Gregorian format is an artificial mask applied for convenience, hiding the true linear nature of time.

For scientific and technical applications, TAI and TT are often expressed via '''Modified Julian Date (MJD)'''—a continuous count of SI days since a fixed epoch. While MJD avoids Gregorian irregularities, it remains &quot;tethered&quot; to the 86,400-second day, a unit that is astronomically meaningless when decontextualized. Similarly, '''GPS time''' relies on a week-based count (since January 6, 1980), forcing a technical system to conform to an arbitrary seven-day cycle. Both systems are cumbersome &quot;hybrids&quot; that attempt to measure linear time using units designed for Earth’s rotation.

==== Decontextualized Bully Timestamps ====

The '''Bully Timestamp''', shown in the lower-right frame of '''Figure 1''', breaks the Gregorian formatting tether. It is a single, unique identifier that applies simultaneously to all locations on Earth because it is never adjusted for geography or orbital drift. For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} was realized at the exact moment the UTC based clock read 11:59:29 a.m. in Accra and 8:59:29 p.m. in Tokyo. By discarding the baggage of weeks, days, and hours, the Bully timestamp emerges as the least ambiguous format for representing universal, decontextualized time.

Click on the below links for a comparison of current time in six time standards (local, UTC, GPS, Loran, and TAI), all displayed using traditional Gregorian format:

[http://www.leapsecond.com/m/gps.htm LeapSecond.com]

[https://www.ipses.com/eng/in-depth-analysis/standard-of-time-definition ipses.com]

[http://www.csgnetwork.com/multitimedisp.html csgnetwork.com]

== Contextualized vs. Decontextualized Time ==

Local clocks and calendars reflect '''contextualized time''', which uses region-specific offsets from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) to align with physical reality. This time is &quot;contextual&quot; because it provides an intuitive sense of conditions at some specific geographic location; for instance, a traveler arriving in London at 4:00 a.m. can instinctively expect darkness and quiet streets. To maintain this alignment with Earth's natural cycles, UTC requires periodic &quot;leaps&quot; (seconds and years). In '''Figure 2''', the light blue line represents Earth's irregular rotation ('''UT1'''), while the dark blue line shows '''UTC''', which is manually adjusted to track UT1.

In contrast, standards such as International Atomic Time ('''TAI'''), Terrestrial Time ('''TT'''), and '''GPS time''' are '''decontextualized'''. They are independent of Earth's rotation, meaning they do not correspond to &quot;true time&quot; at any specific geographical location. Represented by the black lines in '''Figure 2''', these standards track a continuous, uniform interval measured by atomic clocks. This uninterrupted linearity is vital for scientific and technical systems, where the discontinuities introduced by leap seconds could lead to critical errors or system failures.

[[File:Bully Timestamps in relation to modern time keeping.png|frame|center|text-bottom|Figure 2: Modern Time Keeping]]

The various decontextualized standards currently in use are effectively &quot;frozen&quot; in the astronomical conditions present at the time of their deployment. Because long-term changes in Earth's motion are unpredictable, each system launched with a different initial offset. For example, when GPS was launched in 1980, the '''Delta T''' adjustment (TT-UTC) exceeded 51 seconds. In contrast, the 1972 LORAN-C upgrade began with an adjustment closer to 42 seconds. This historical discrepancy results in a permanent nine-second offset between GPS and LORAN-C. Similarly, LORAN-C remains offset from TAI (deployed in 1958) by exactly ten seconds.

The Bully timestamp system, shown on the far-right axis of '''Figure 2''', follows the same uniform, decontextualized logic as TAI and TT but avoids this &quot;legacy offset&quot; confusion. Unlike existing standards, Bully timestamps are not linked to others by a constant, arbitrary time offset. This independence ensures they are uniquely recognizable and impossible to misinterpret.

[[Bully_Metric_Timestamp_units|Examples of contextualized vs decontextualized time]]

== The Bully Timestamp System ==

The Bully Timestamp System is an original research project designed to:

# '''Augment''' existing timekeeping by providing an option that does not require &quot;leap&quot; seconds, &quot;leap&quot; years, or time zones.
# '''Standardize''' a fundamentally binary temporal structure that is natively compatible with computer architecture.
# '''Establish''' a universal scale—incorporating [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks]], Great Years, and Galactic Years—capable of uniquely identifying any moment from the Big Bang into the far future.
# '''Promote''' intuitive understanding and education through a built-in [[Bully Mnemonic|mnemonic device]].

The '''Bully Timestamp System''' provides a streamlined method for expressing decontextualized time by precisely measuring elapsed intervals via atomic clocks. A unique, 12-digit hexadecimal Bully timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds (TAI). For example, Bully timestamp {{mono|8209 2800 0000}} occurred simultaneously with 12:00:00 TAI on June 21, 1998.

Unlike traditional standards, Bully timestamps are entirely independent of planetary motion, removing the need for &quot;leaps&quot; or regional offsets. By discarding traditional unit names—such as &quot;year,&quot; &quot;month,&quot; or &quot;hour&quot;—the system eliminates any possible confusion with contextualized solar time. While it utilizes SI seconds as its fundamental building block, it does so strictly as a unit of duration rather than a fraction of an Earth day. This ensures the Bully system remains a consistent, unambiguous, and mathematically &quot;clean&quot; alternative to historical timekeeping.

== Time span covered by Bully timestamps ==

With 12 hexadecimal digits, the system has a massive address space for time. Given that a new timestamp is realized every 3,055 SI seconds, the total capacity of the system is:

:&lt;math&gt;16^{12} \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 27.25 \text{ billion Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Because the universe is estimated to be approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Bully Timestamp System provides enough unique identifiers to span the entire history of the universe—from the Big Bang into the far-distant future.

== The Foundations of Bully Metric ==

The Bully Timestamp System is derived from the orbital periods of major Solar System bodies. Specifically, the duration of Earth's '''sidereal year''' (~31,558,150 seconds) is roughly equal to &lt;math&gt;10,330 \times 3,055&lt;/math&gt; SI seconds. This foundational constant—3,055 seconds—serves as the building block for the larger [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|Great Weeks and Great Years]].

The name &quot;Bully&quot; is a dual-reference to the massive astronomical objects that define our local spacetime. In an archaic sense, &quot;bully&quot; means '''&quot;beautiful&quot; or &quot;excellent,&quot;''' describing the celestial harmony of the cosmos. In the modern sense, it refers to the '''dominance and gravitational influence''' of &quot;bullies&quot; like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A* Sagittarius A*], the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Sun], and giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn. These massive bodies dictate the motion of everything around them, serving as the physical anchors for the Bully Metric system.

* [[Bully_Metric_Foundations|The Foundations of Bully Metric]]
* [[Bully_Metric_Astronomical_Coordinates|Bully Metric Coordinate System]]

== The Metonic Cycle and Bully Timestamps ==

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.

* [[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]

== The Bully Mnemonic ==

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Sidereal \, Year} = {31,558,150 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; {1 \, Tropical \, Year} = {31,556,926 \, Seconds} &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt; 1 \, Great \, Year \approx 25,824 \, Sidereal \, Years \approx 25,825 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;

&lt;math display=&quot;block&quot;&gt;{1 \, Galactic \, Year} \approx 8264 \, Great \, Year \approx 213,417,800 \, Tropical \, Years &lt;/math&gt;


The '''Bully Mnemonic''' is a technique for remembering the exact number of seconds that occur in Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year sidereal year] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year tropical year], a good approximation of the Earth's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year Great Year], and a rough approximation of the Solar System's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year galactic year]. Click on the following link to learn more about the Bully Mnemonic and the role it plays in the mathematical foundation of Bully timestamps.

[[Bully Mnemonic |The Bully Mnemonic]]

[[Bully Mnemonic Extension |The Bully Mnemonic Extension]]

= Realized vs. Estimated Bully timestamps =

Each Bully timestamp is realized exactly 3055 seconds TAI after the previous one.  However, since atomic clocks did not exist prior to the 1950's, any assignment of Bully timestamps prior to 1958 should be viewed as an estimate of how elapsed time might have transpired on Earth in the past, rather than an actual realization of Bully time. Bully time should only be considered &quot;realized&quot; when time is measured with an accuracy of &lt;math&gt;{10}^{-10}&lt;/math&gt;.

== Realized Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_Realized_Timestamps|Realized Bully Timestamps]]

== Estimated Bully Time ==

== Future Bully Time ==

[[Bully_Metric_CMB_Stabilized_Timestamps| CMB Stabilized Bully Timestamps]]</text>
      <sha1>npw2zd5ipv14tvgvcsvgbsou7exviq7</sha1>
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  <page>
    <title>WikiJournal Preprints/Mental health in Sri Lanka</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>321771</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807236</id>
      <parentid>2804160</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T14:00:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Atcovi</username>
        <id>276019</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>gonna add this in before my computer explodes</comment>
      <origin>2807236</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="91877" sha1="dh6da53sdktn878lc97w2qcpv5jr762" xml:space="preserve">{{Article info
| journal = WikiJournal of Medicine      &lt;!-- WikiJournal of Medicine, Science, or Humanities --&gt;
| last1 = Azeez
| orcid1 = 0009-0007-9202-4614
| first1 = Aaqib
| last2 = 
| first2 = 
| last3 = 
| first3 = 
| last4 = 
| first4 = &lt;!-- up to 9 authors can be added in this above format --&gt;
| et_al = &lt;!-- if there are &gt;9 authors, hyperlink to the list here --&gt;
| affiliation1 = Old Dominion University
| correspondence1 = yonikmalik@gmail.com
| affiliations = institutes / affiliations
| correspondence = email@address.com
| keywords = &lt;!-- up to 6 keywords --&gt;
| license = &lt;!-- default is CC-BY --&gt;
| abstract = This is a narrative review.
}}

TBD 

== Introduction ==
Mental health continues to be a critically relevant topic as the island nation has experienced decades of [[w:Black_July|violent ethnic conflict]], terrorist attacks, war crimes, and economic disruptions. Sri Lanka has only recently exited the climaxes of a [[w:Sri_Lankan_economic_crisis_(2019–2024)|severe economic crisis in from 2019 to 2024]], a [[w:Sri_Lankan_civil_war|nearly 30-year civil war ending in 2009]], a [[w:2019_Sri_Lanka_Easter_bombings|2019 terrorist attack]], and continues to face the ripple effects of the [[w:2004_Boxing_Day_tsunami|2004 Boxing Day tsunami]]. The exact effect these major events have had on mental health in the country is &quot;unknown&quot;, but the statistics remain alarming despite a declining trend.

Suicide rates in the country during the mid-1990s were the second-highest in the world with ingesting toxic products being the main suicide method. Despite the decline in suicide numbers since then—possibly attributed to Sri Lanka's ban on toxic products—evidence from a 2023 study reports an upward trend in suicide through hanging from 2016 to 2021—independent of the [[w:COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sri_Lanka|COVID-19 pandemic]]. Several risk factors for suicide, such as poverty and economic instability, are still prevalent and even increasing in the country to this day&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Rajapakse|first=Thilini|last2=Silva|first2=Tharuka|last3=Hettiarachchi|first3=Nirosha Madhuwanthi|last4=Gunnell|first4=David|last5=Metcalfe|first5=Chris|last6=Spittal|first6=Matthew J.|last7=Knipe|first7=Duleeka|date=2023-01-19|title=The Impact of the COVID-19 Pandemic and Lockdowns on Self-Poisoning and Suicide in Sri Lanka: An Interrupted Time Series Analysis|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9914278/|journal=International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health|volume=20|issue=3|pages=1833|doi=10.3390/ijerph20031833|issn=1660-4601|pmc=9914278|pmid=36767200}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

== Methods ==
[source selection process]

==Historical Development of Mental Health Services==

In the 1800s, established care for mental health began shifting primarily from indigenous practices, mainly derived from [[w:Ayurveda|Ayurveda medicine]], [[w:Siddha_medicine|Siddha medicine]], and [[w:Unani_medicine|Unani medicine]], to a Western model&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;Gambheera, H. (2011). [https://www.saarcpsychiatry.com/viewText?chapter=c6 The evolution of psychiatric services in Sri Lanka]. South Asian Journal of Psychiatry, 2(1), 25–27.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:15&quot;&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://doi.org/10.1007/978-981-96-8078-8_7|title=Social Psychiatry in Sri Lanka|last=Baminiwatta|first=Anuradha|last2=Williams|first2=Shehan|date=2025|publisher=Springer Nature|isbn=978-981-96-8078-8|editor-last=Arafat|editor-first=S. M. Yasir|location=Singapore|pages=141–158|language=en|doi=10.1007/978-981-96-8078-8_7|editor-last2=Singh|editor-first2=Amit|editor-last3=Kar|editor-first3=Sujita Kumar}}&lt;/ref&gt;. [pull more info from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342354982_Development_of_civil_commitment_statutes_laws_of_involuntary_detention_and_treatment_in_Sri_Lanka_a_historical_review maybe?] 

=== Adoption of a Western-based mental healthcare model and issuances of ordinances ===
In 1839, [[w:James_Alexander_Stewart-Mackenzie|James Alexander Stewart-Mackenzie]], the 7th Governor of British Ceylon, released the Lunacy Ordinance, authorizing municipal authorities to create lunatic asylums for the mentally ill in the country&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot;&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://mentalhealth.health.gov.lk/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=6&amp;Itemid=125&amp;lang=en|title=History - Directorate of Mental Health|website=mentalhealth.health.gov.lk|access-date=2025-05-10}}&lt;/ref&gt;. The ordinance was concerned with the legal frameworks of detaining individuals considered dangerous to others or individuals falsely presenting themselves as mentally ill, and not on medical treatments to alleviate the conditions of detained individuals. UK psychiatrist [[w:Edward_Mapother|Edward Mapother]] critiqued the ordinance during his 1937 inspection of British Ceylon's mental health institutions in a series of reports titled ''A Disgrace to a Civilised Community'', remarking that the ordinance &quot;[did] not seem to have contemplated treatment as a contingency to be considered&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{Cite book|title=Permeable walls: historical perspectives on hospital and asylum visiting|date=2009|publisher=Rodopi|isbn=978-90-420-2599-8|editor-last=Mooney|editor-first=Graham|series=Clio medica|location=Amsterdam New York, NY|editor-last2=Reinarz|editor-first2=Jonathan}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

In 1840, the 1839 Ordinance was repealed and replaced by the 1840 Ordinance. The 1839 Ordinance was almost identical to the 1840 Ordinance, except the removal of two previous requirements: the requirement for official medical diagnoses of the mentally insane and the mandate to maintain adequate staff-to-patient ratios within lunatic asylums&lt;ref name=&quot;:3&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Alwis|first=L. A. P. de|last2=Seneviratne|first2=V. L.|last3=Mendis|first3=T. S. S.|last4=Abhayanayaka|first4=C.|date=2024-12-31|title=The development of laws related to the disposal of forensic patients in Sri Lanka: A historical review|url=https://sljpsyc.sljol.info/articles/10.4038/sljpsyc.v15i2.8569|journal=Sri Lanka Journal of Psychiatry|language=en-US|volume=15|issue=2|doi=10.4038/sljpsyc.v15i2.8569|issn=2012-6883}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

In 1873, a third Ordinance was released. It included linguistic changes, where the term, &quot;insane&quot;, was replaced with &quot;of unsound mind&quot;. The Ordinance also gave more power to medical professionals in determining insanity diagnoses, and more power to detainees in appealing their commitment to the mental asylum. Despite this Ordinance being the most comprehensive outlook on mental healthcare in the country at the time, the legal frameworks behind the detainment of the criminally insane were left identical to previous ordinances&lt;ref name=&quot;:3&quot; /&gt;.

=== Development of mental asylums ===
At the time the 1839 ordinance was released, mentally ill patients were placed either in prisons throughout the country or leprosy hospitals, such as the [[w:Hendala_Leprosy_Hospital|Hendala Leprosy Hospital]] in the Gampaha district&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:3&quot; /&gt;. After the creation of the first mental asylum in Borella in 1846, patients from the Hendala Leprosy Hospital were transferred to the institute in Borella. Overcrowding soon became an issue and patients institutionalized at the Borella mental asylum were sent to prisons across the country. [[File:Edward Mapother.jpg|thumb|A portrait taken of Edward Mapother during his time working at [[w:Maudsley_Hospital|Maudsley Hospital]] in London.
]]

As medical institutions were being made to house the mentally insane, another mental asylum was created in the [[w:Cinnamon_Gardens|Cinnamon Gardens]] area of Colombo in 1884, though this mental asylum faced overcrowding in just one year&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;. Treatment in these asylums was limited to occupational and protection therapy, failing to provide treatment for the root causes of the mental disorders.

In 1926, the Angoda Mental Hospital was established, scantily alleviating the severe overcrowding issues that were plaguing the preceding mental asylums. Despite the addition of 1,700 beds to the facility, treatment was still vastly limited and the patients were left in significantly poor conditions. 

=== Edward Mapother's 1937 inspection of British Ceylon ===
Edward Mapother was born in Dublin, Ireland, on July 12, 1881 and moved to London when he was 7 years old&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title=Madness to mental illness: a history of the Royal College of Psychiatrists|last=Bewley|first=Thomas|date=2008|publisher=RCPsych Publications ; Distributed in North America by Balogh International|isbn=978-1-904671-35-0|location=London : [S.l.]}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Mapother attained his M.D. in 1908. While Mapother was the Medical Superintendent of Maudsley Hospital in London, England, he was invited to inspect British Ceylon's mental health institutions by Dr S. T. Gunasekara, the first Medical Director of British Ceylon&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot; /&gt;.

In Mapother's visit, he commented that the Angoda Mental Hospital had the atmosphere of &quot;a prison that is neglected and dilapidated&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot; /&gt;. Overcrowding was still a major issue, with the institute hosting 3,000 patients—more than double the intended capacity. Patients were sleeping on mats and were clearly out of reach of adequate treatment. Mapother also noted that only 4% of public health expenditure in the country was being set for hospitals, drawing a stark comparison to London's 25%&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot; /&gt;. Mapother offered a vivid and grim account of the hospital in his reports:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The floor, roof and walls of each cell consist alike of drab cement without any attempt at colouring or decoration. High up in one wall is a small window with stout iron bars. In the floor is a large hole into which the patient may pass his motion and urine. These cells are incompletely divided from one another by a partition which does not reach the roof so that the noise and stink from any one cell may reach at least all the others of the same row. Into these empty cells I was informed that the most noisy and troublesome patients in the hospital; were turned at night completely naked. The doors of the cell contain no observation window, and considering the violent character of many of these patients there is every ground for believing that the doors are rarely opened in the night by the solitary attendant on duty. It needs little imagination to picture the suffering of any patient in an early stage of bodily illness passing a night under such conditions, a situation which must frequently arise. I am told that the noise proceeding from this building is like that on a bad night in a menagerie&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Mapother proposed a series of reinforcements to the legal, institutional, and medical frameworks of mental health care in British Ceylon. This included the decentralization of the psychiatric services, a reworking of the Lunacy Ordinance to incorporate treatment into the legal framework, and the establishment of a separate service of medical professionals dedicated to psychiatry. Mapother's recommendations led to several of the best local medical professionals to be sent to London for extensive training in psychiatry, while nurses from England were sent to British Ceylon to supervise hospital operations and train local staff&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot; /&gt;.

On August 25, 1938, the Executive Committee of Health approved the strategies proposed by Mapother, though the Government was unable to fully implement all of Mapother's interventions due to the 'heavy cost'. In fact, the Government decided to forego one of his proposals, which was the suggestion of a &quot;Visiting Committee&quot;. This committee was tasked to &quot;meet at the hospital, carry out inspections, and make recommendations&quot; to the Executive Committee of Health&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot; /&gt;. The Government realized that deficiencies in their mental healthcare system could prove to be &quot;costly&quot; for their reputation. Mapother was reportedly enraged when he found out. Mapother intended to contact the Secretary of State regarding the &quot;distortion&quot; of his plans, but was interrupted by events preluding to [[w:World_War_II|World War II]]&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot; /&gt;. Mapother passed away on March 20, 1940, without materializing his follow-up plans.

=== Post-Mapother developments and further innovations ===
[[File:Sri Lanka districts Colombo.svg|thumb|A map of Sri Lanka highlighting the Colombo District, where the capital is located. 
|right|250px]]Mapother's insights on the mental healthcare structure in British Ceylon proved to be the catalyst of massive renovations. In 1939, the first outpatient clinic was established in the [[w:National_Hospital_of_Sri_Lanka|National Hospital of Sri Lanka]] in Colombo. The first trained Ceylonese psychiatrists began practice in the 1940s, leading to the establishment of the first neuropsychiatric clinic in Colombo in 1943. Treatments for the mentally ill improved dramatically, as protectional therapy expanded to [[w:insulin_shock_therapy|insulin shock therapy]] and [[w:Electroconvulsive_therapy|cardiazol convulsive therapy]]&lt;ref name=&quot;:4&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Kathriarachchi|first=Samudra T.|last2=Seneviratne|first2=V. Lakmi|last3=Amarakoon|first3=Luckshika|date=2019-06|title=Development of Mental Health Care in Sri Lanka: Lessons Learned|url=https://journals.lww.com/tpsy/fulltext/2019/33020/development_of_mental_health_care_in_sri_lanka_.1.aspx|journal=Taiwanese Journal of Psychiatry|language=en-US|volume=33|issue=2|pages=55|doi=10.4103/TPSY.TPSY_15_19|issn=1028-3684}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Mapother's advocation for the decentralization of services were further honored through the 1947 establishment of a first child guidance clinic in Colombo General Hospital&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;. 

In 1948, British Ceylon was granted independence from the British after the [[w:Sri_Lankan_independence_movement|Sri Lankan independence movement]]. Changes in the mental healthcare structure were not immediate following independence, but rapid expansions of mental healthcare services were still ongoing. 

The following decades saw positive institutional developments, such as the creation of a second hospital in [[w:Mulleriyawa|Mulleriyawa]] in 1957, and the creation of a psychiatric inpatient unit in Colombo General Hospital in 1967—effectively granting the city of Colombo the luxury of hosting the top psychiatric care in the country&lt;ref name=&quot;:5&quot;&gt;{{Cite book|url=http://link.springer.com/10.1007/978-1-4899-7999-5_4|title=Mental Health System Development in Sri Lanka|last=Minas|first=Harry|last2=Mendis|first2=Jayan|last3=Hall|first3=Teresa|date=2017|publisher=Springer US|isbn=978-1-4899-7997-1|editor-last=Minas|editor-first=Harry|location=Boston, MA|pages=59–77|language=en|doi=10.1007/978-1-4899-7999-5_4|editor-last2=Lewis|editor-first2=Milton}}&lt;/ref&gt;. The 1950s was also the start of psychopharmacological innovations, with the introduction of [[w:Lithium_(medication)|lithium]] and long-acting injectable antipsychotics ([[w:Depot_injection|depot]] [[w:Antipsychotic|neuroleptics]]) in the succeeding years&lt;ref name=&quot;:4&quot; /&gt;. Additionally, the number of public psychiatrist positions increased by 400% from 1953 to 1967&lt;ref name=&quot;:5&quot; /&gt;.

After 1960, mental health services were being established beyond the capital to other cities in the country&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot; /&gt;.

In 1980, the [[w:Postgraduate_Institute_of_Medicine|Postgraduate Institute of Medicine]] began a program where students would enroll in a 5-year medical course and attain an MD in psychiatry, curbing the need for Sri Lankan medical students to be sent abroad to complete their training. Many of the medical students sent abroad for training never returned to Sri Lanka to practice, resulting in a &quot;1:500,000 to 1000,000&quot; ratio of psychiatrists to patients on &quot;most occasions&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;.

=== Mental Disease Ordinance of 1956 ===
In 1956, the 1873 Ordinance was revised a second time and renamed the &quot;Mental Disease Ordinance of 1956&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:5&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:6&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Hapangama|first=Aruni|last2=Mendis|first2=Jayan|last3=Kuruppuarachchi|first3=K. a. L. A.|date=2023-02|title=Why are we still living in the past? Sri Lanka needs urgent and timely reforms of its archaic mental health laws|url=https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-international/article/why-are-we-still-living-in-the-past-sri-lanka-needs-urgent-and-timely-reforms-of-its-archaic-mental-health-laws/B18B03DC962CC6F09BC6D7877E390EE4|journal=BJPsych International|language=en|volume=20|issue=1|pages=4–6|doi=10.1192/bji.2022.26|issn=2056-4740|pmc=9909436|pmid=36812028}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Another linguistic development is seen with the new revision as &quot;lunacy&quot; was replaced with &quot;mental disease&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:6&quot; /&gt;. The Ordinance paved the way for community-based services to be delivered to patients closer to their residences rather than solely allocating services to just hospitals. This led to the creation of a [[w:WHO|WHO]]-backed community clinic near the [[w:University_of_Colombo|University of Colombo]] in the 1970s, where the focus was to eventually ease patients in the Angoda Mental Hospital back into the general population&lt;ref name=&quot;:5&quot; /&gt;.

=== Developments from the 1990s ===
The 1990s and onwards saw further positive developments in framing the mental healthcare system, including the establishment of the [https://mentalhealth.health.gov.lk/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=featured&amp;Itemid=101&amp;lang=en Directorate of Mental Health] in 1998. The Directorate of Mental Health is a part of the [[w:Ministry_of_Health_(Sri_Lanka)|Ministry of Health]] who is responsible for the monitoring and implementation of mental health programs across the country&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://mentalhealth.health.gov.lk/index.php?lang=en|title=Home - Directorate of Mental Health|website=mentalhealth.health.gov.lk|access-date=2025-05-12}}&lt;/ref&gt;.  As of 2025, the current director of the Directorate of Mental Health is Dr. Chithramalee de Silva&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot; /&gt;.

On November 11, 2005, the Mental Health Policy was approved by the Government of Sri Lanka, advocating for establishments of more de-centralized, community-based mental health services across the country beyond the capital (Colombo). The policy aimed to concisely define the rigorous standards needed to be completed for each respected medical professional, including psychiatrists and clinical psychologists&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Rajapakshe|first=Onali Bimalka Wickramaseckara|last2=Mohan|first2=Mohapradeep|last3=Singh|first3=Swaran Preet|date=2023-05|title=Development of adolescent mental health services in Sri Lanka|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10895478/|journal=BJPsych international|volume=20|issue=2|pages=41–43|doi=10.1192/bji.2022.32|issn=2056-4740|pmc=10895478|pmid=38414998}}&lt;/ref&gt;. The policy also included a new position, the &quot;Medical Officer of Mental Health&quot;, who oversees and assists in the implementation of community-based mental health services&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;. This same year, the Sri Lankan government began implementing psychological services in state institutions, such as the military&lt;ref name=&quot;:8&quot; /&gt;.  

In 2007, the National Mental Health Advisory Council (NMHAC) was created to serve as an 'advisory' board for the Ministry of Health on what actions should be executed by the Directorate of Mental Health&lt;ref name=&quot;:7&quot;&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://mentalhealth.health.gov.lk/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=9&amp;Itemid=220&amp;lang=en|title=Introduction - Directorate of Mental Health|website=mentalhealth.health.gov.lk|access-date=2025-05-12}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 

In 2008, the Angoda Mental Hospital was restructured as the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH)&lt;ref name=&quot;:7&quot; /&gt;. 

=== Modern-day Sri Lanka ===
[[File:Feeding Children in Sri Lanka.jpg|left|thumb|Despite the noteworthy improvements in mental healthcare services in recent decades, mental health remains a significant issue due to rising poverty. ]]
As of 2025, the Mental Health Act (mental health legislation) has been undergoing development since 2005 and is currently awaiting to be considered for the final stage of approval. This is expected to replace the 1956 Mental Health Ordinance&lt;ref name=&quot;:7&quot; /&gt;.

Currently, there are 7 tertiary care hospitals, 61 adult patient units, 3 child inpatient units, and 1 forensic unit. The [[w:Lady_Ridgeway_Hospital_for_Children|Lady Ridgeway Hospital]] in Colombo and the Sirimavo Bandaranayke Specialized Children Hospital in Kandy are tailored towards alleviating children with [[w:Learning_disability|SLD]], [[w:ADHD|ADHD]], [[w:Autism_Spectrum_Disorder|ASD]] and family support for diagnosed children. As of 2017, 22 rehabilitation centers exist through the country, including 7 alcohol rehab centers&lt;ref name=&quot;:7&quot; /&gt;. [expand more on SL Gov't efforts here...]  

Despite the impressive advancements in mental healthcare in the last couple of decades, Sri Lanka still suffers significant mental health issues due to increasing poverty levels in the country. The [[w:World_Bank|World Bank]] reported that [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/04/08/eesc-a08.html the poverty levels in Sri Lanka increased from 11% in 2019 to 26% in 2024], with 60% of Sri Lankan households facing &quot;decreased incomes&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Lakhtakia, Shruti, Atapattu Mudiyanselage, Udahiruni Shashadari Atapat, Walker, Richard Ancrum. ''Sri Lanka Development Update - Bridge to Recovery (English).'' Washington, D.C.: World Bank Group. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/099634104012434919&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/ref&gt;. This was churned by Sri Lanka's excessive foreign debt, economic troubles stemming from [[w:Gotabaya_Rajapaksa|Gotabaya Rajapaksa]]'s presidential term, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the [[w:Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine|ongoing invasion of Ukraine by Russia (2022)]].  

According to [[w:NYU|New York University]] graduate student [https://gc-cuny.academia.edu/NadiaAugustyniak Nadia Augustyniak] in her 2025 overview of Sri Lanka's public mental healthcare system, poverty-induced financial precarity remains a major obstacle to receiving access to mental healthcare services. Even though trauma from adverse weather and conflict is deleterious to mental health, issues originating from every-day struggles, especially struggles related to poverty, could arguably play a more significant role&lt;ref name=&quot;:8&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Augustyniak|first=Nadia|date=2025-06-01|title=Public mental healthcare and economic vulnerability in Sri Lanka|url=https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S2666560324000926|journal=SSM - Mental Health|volume=7|pages=100387|doi=10.1016/j.ssmmh.2024.100387|issn=2666-5603}}&lt;/ref&gt;.  

== Impact of Conflicts, Terrorism, Political Instability &amp; Natural Disasters ==

=== Sri Lankan Civil War ===
The '''Sri Lankan Civil War''' was a domestic conflict that took place between the Sri Lankan government and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (abbreviated as the ''LTTE),'' a militant group formed in the 1970s as a result of rising tensions between the majority Sinhalese and minority Tamil population. The group is considered a terrorist organization&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.start.umd.edu/baad/database/liberation-tigers-tamil-eelam-ltte-1998.html|title=BAAD - Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) - 1998 {{!}} START.umd.edu|website=www.start.umd.edu|access-date=2025-06-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/liberation-tigers-tamil-eelam-aka-tamil-tigers-sri-lanka-separatists|title=Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (aka Tamil Tigers) (Sri Lanka, separatists) {{!}} Council on Foreign Relations|last=Bhattacharji|first=Preeti|website=www.cfr.org|language=en|access-date=2025-06-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Through brutal massacres, assassinations, and suicide bombings, the LTTE waged decades of terror which led to civilian displacement, infrastructure collapse, and the reduction of mental health services available in the northern region.[[File:DFID-funded, UNHCR emergency shelter tents, in the IDP camp at Menik Farm, Sri Lanka (3694081492).jpg|thumb|350x350px|An IDP camp in Menik Farm, Sri Lanka in 2009 ([https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-19703826 now closed]). Suicide rates in IDP camps were three times the general population.]]The civil war mainly affected the northeastern portion of the country, including the [[w:Vanni_(Sri_Lanka)|Vanni region]]. The conflict caused mass destruction to local mental healthcare facilities. Local residents described the conflict with the phrase ''varthayal varnicca mudiyathavai'', roughly translating into English as 'beyond description by words'&lt;ref name=&quot;:9&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Somasundaram|first=Daya|date=2010-07-28|title=Collective trauma in the Vanni- a qualitative inquiry into the mental health of the internally displaced due to the civil war in Sri Lanka|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/1752-4458-4-22|journal=International Journal of Mental Health Systems|language=en|volume=4|issue=1|pages=22|doi=10.1186/1752-4458-4-22|issn=1752-4458|pmc=2923106|pmid=20667090}}&lt;/ref&gt;. In 2003, only two psychiatrists were found in the region, operating on extremely limited resources and further deepening long-term trauma and mental health deterioration in the population&lt;ref name=&quot;:5&quot; /&gt;. 

In 2002, the humanitarian organization [https://www.msf.org/ Médecins Sans Frontières] (MSF) performed an investigation of mental health needs in the [[w:Vavuniya|Vavuniya]] area, the site of intense conflict during the civil war (including the [[w:1985_Vavuniya_massacre|1985 Vavuniya massacre]]), and found that many of the residents suffered from high suicide rates, alcohol abuse, domestic violence, grief, and a &quot;sense of ‘learnt helplessness’&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:5&quot; /&gt;. A team from the University of Konstanz in Germany found that 92% of grade school children in the region were exposed to &quot;combat, shelling, and witnessing the death of loved ones&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:9&quot; /&gt;. 
[[File:Tractors. Jan 2009 displacement in the Vanni.jpg|left|thumb|350x350px|Displaced civilians originating from the Kilinochchi and Mullaitivu Districts due to military campaigns by the Sri Lankan military (January 2009). Displaced civilians had to avoid both the atrocities committed by the LTTE and the Sri Lankan government.]]
Accusation of war crimes towards [[w:War_crimes_during_the_final_stages_of_the_Sri_Lankan_civil_war|the Sri Lankan government]] have been documented by various external organizations, despite the government's attempts at removing any [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_p1TfTguW0 mentions] or [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtm54Y9USEg investigations] of it&lt;ref&gt;See also [[w:Sexual violence in the Sri Lankan civil war]].&lt;/ref&gt;. A 2009 HRW report stated that the Sri Lankan government assumed native Tamil population residing in war zones to be &quot;siding with the LTTE and [therefore, were] treated as combatants&quot;, leading to indiscriminate shillings and massacres of civilians&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|date=2009-02-19|title=War on the Displaced|url=https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/02/19/war-displaced/sri-lankan-army-and-ltte-abuses-against-civilians-vanni|journal=Human Rights Watch|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Alongside the oppression by the Sri Lankan military, the Vanni population also endured the brutal theatrics of the LTTE, which recruited men, women, and even children with minimal training, effectively rendering them cannon fodder. 

Over 200,000 Tamil civilians were moved into [[w:Internally_displaced_persons_in_Sri_Lanka|designated displacement camps during the war]], where conditions were abysmal&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Dissanayake|first=Lasith|last2=Jabir|first2=Sameeha|last3=Shepherd|first3=Thomas|last4=Helliwell|first4=Toby|last5=Selvaratnam|first5=Lavan|last6=Jayaweera|first6=Kaushalya|last7=Abeysinghe|first7=Nihal|last8=Mallen|first8=Christian|last9=Sumathipala|first9=Athula|date=2023-08-31|title=The aftermath of war; mental health, substance use and their correlates with social support and resilience among adolescents in a post-conflict region of Sri Lanka|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s13034-023-00648-1|journal=Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Mental Health|language=en|volume=17|issue=1|pages=101|doi=10.1186/s13034-023-00648-1|issn=1753-2000}}&lt;/ref&gt;. The suicide rate in these displacement camps were three times the community-level (2002), with a ratio of 103.5 per 10,000 compared to the Sri Lankan general population's rate of 37.5 per 10,000. Almost all suicide attempts involved poisonous substances. Other forms of violence included domestic violence and child abuse. Local health officials in Vavuniya admitted that mental health concerns were a major problem, but were unable to address these concerns due to a lack of resources and support from the government. During the [[wikipedia:Sri_Lankan_civil_war#2002_peace_process_(2002%E2%80%932006)|brief 2002 ceasefire]], the MSF implemented a &quot;community-based programme&quot; which included &quot;increasing awareness, community strengthening, reinforcing coping-strategies for long-term war-affected communities, and counselling&quot;. The MSF also advocated for restrictions of poisonous substances due to the suicide attempts, and stressed that &quot;much more [than resettlement]&quot; would need to be done to help alleviate the psychological pain the northern population had faced&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=de Jong|first=Kaz|last2=Mulhern|first2=Maureen|last3=Ford|first3=Nathan|last4=Simpson|first4=Isabel|last5=Swan|first5=Alison|last6=van der Kam|first6=Saskia|date=2002-04|title=Psychological trauma of the civil war in Sri Lanka|url=https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0140673602084209|journal=The Lancet|language=en|volume=359|issue=9316|pages=1517–1518|doi=10.1016/S0140-6736(02)08420-9}}&lt;/ref&gt;. The ceasefire ended in 2006 and led to the [[w:Eelam_War_IV|final phase of the civil war]], eventually ending in 2009 with the [[w:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velupillai_Prabhakaran#Sri_Lankan_Army_Northern_offensive_and_death|death of the LTTE's leader]]. 

'''Post-war'''
[[File:Puttalam district.svg|left|thumb|Puttalam District, unlike its northern counterparts, was largely spared from the intense conflict, possibly explaining the lower rates of common mental disorders (CMDs).]]
The first district-wide cross-sectional multistage cluster sample survey was conducted in the [[w:Jaffna_District|Jaffna District]] shortly after the war ended. The study's sample included 1517 households and 2 internally displaced peoples camps. With a response rate of 92%, the study found that symptoms for PTSD were found in 7% of participants, symptoms of anxiety were found in 32.6% of participants, and symptoms of depression were found in 22.2% of participants. 2% of respondents were currently placed in internally displaced peoples camps at the time of the study, 29.5% were freshly resettled from the internally displaced peoples camps, and the rest of the participants (68.5%) were never placed into camps. In comparison to residents who were never placed into camps, participants that were actively held in camps tend to report more symptoms of PTSD, anxiety, and depression. The researchers also found that women were especially vulnerable to deteriorating mental health conditions. This was explained by two factors: women having to assume the roles of both the father and the mother in the family setting after the, either voluntary or forced, departure of the husband to war, and sexist violence&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Husain|first=Farah|last2=Anderson|first2=Mark|last3=Lopes Cardozo|first3=Barbara|last4=Becknell|first4=Kristin|last5=Blanton|first5=Curtis|last6=Araki|first6=Diane|last7=Kottegoda Vithana|first7=Eeshara|date=2011-08-03|title=Prevalence of War-Related Mental Health Conditions and Association With Displacement Status in Postwar Jaffna District, Sri Lanka|url=https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.2011.1052|journal=JAMA|volume=306|issue=5|pages=522–531|doi=10.1001/jama.2011.1052|issn=0098-7484}}&lt;/ref&gt;. A 2013 study on adult patients in [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK232631/ primary care settings] (divisional hospitals, primary medical care units) found major depression to be significantly higher in females (5.1%) than males (3.6%), bolstering the observation seen in the 2009 study&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Senarath|first=Upul|last2=Wickramage|first2=Kolitha|last3=Peiris|first3=Sharika Lasanthi|date=2014-03-24|title=Prevalence of depression and its associated factors among patients attending primary care settings in the post-conflict Northern Province in Sri Lanka: a cross-sectional study|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-244X-14-85|journal=BMC Psychiatry|language=en|volume=14|issue=1|pages=85|doi=10.1186/1471-244X-14-85|issn=1471-244X|pmc=3987835|pmid=24661436}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

Muslims in Northern Sri Lanka during the conflict also faced violence and discrimination, most notably [[w:Expulsion_of_Muslims_from_the_Northern_Province_of_Sri_Lanka|the October 1990 expulsion of Muslims from the North to the Puttalam District or Jaffna]] and the [[w:Kattankudy_mosque_massacre|1990 Kattankudy mosque massacre]]. The only study testing the displaced Muslim population post-civil war was completed in 2011, where a cross-sectional survey of 450 internally displaced people or people born into displacement (ages 18 - 65) revealed 18.8% of the sample suffering from common mental health disorders (CMD), including [[w:Somatoform_disorder|somatoform disorder]] (14%), &quot;other depressive syndromes&quot; (7.3%), major depression (5.1%), and anxiety disorder (2.8%). The percentages found in this study for somatoform disorder and major depression were &quot;considerably higher&quot; than the national percentages, though the researchers noted that the prevalence of CMD was lower in comparison to other countries marred with conflict, including Palestine (40.3%) and Ethiopia (27.8%). The researchers explained that the lower rate of CMD may be attributed to the [[w:Puttalam_District|serenity of the post-settlement destination]], as conflict was mainly centered in the North and East. In contrast to earlier findings, this study did not observe a higher prevalence of CMDs among women, although increased rates of somatoform disorders were noted (though the researchers did not show the data behind this)&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Siriwardhana|first=Chesmal|last2=Adikari|first2=Anushka|last3=Pannala|first3=Gayani|last4=Siribaddana|first4=Sisira|last5=Abas|first5=Melanie|last6=Sumathipala|first6=Athula|last7=Stewart|first7=Robert|date=2013-05-22|title=Prolonged Internal Displacement and Common Mental Disorders in Sri Lanka: The COMRAID Study|url=https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0064742|journal=PLOS ONE|language=en|volume=8|issue=5|pages=e64742|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0064742|issn=1932-6203|pmc=3661540|pmid=23717656}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

Research on the mental state of combatants has been limited, but a post-war 2009 study done between soldiers of the [[w:Sri_Lanka_Army_Special_Forces_Regiment|Special Forces]] and regular soldiers showed higher levels of exposure to traumatic events for units of the Special Forces, yet the former exhibited significantly less symptoms of CMDs compared to the latter. The authors of this study, [https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=cVKEBdwAAAAJ&amp;hl=en&amp;oi=ao Raveen Hanwella] and [https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=ZRj74qMAAAAJ&amp;hl=en&amp;oi=sra Varuni de Silva], offers the camaraderie of the unit as an explanation for the discrepancy&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Hanwella|first=Raveen|last2=de Silva|first2=Varuni|date=2012-08|title=Mental health of Special Forces personnel deployed in battle|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22038567|journal=Social Psychiatry and Psychiatric Epidemiology|volume=47|issue=8|pages=1343–1351|doi=10.1007/s00127-011-0442-0|issn=1433-9285|pmid=22038567}}&lt;/ref&gt;. A follow-up study was completed by the pair (with the addition of former Director-General of the Health Services of the Sri Lanka Navy [[w:Nicholas_Jayasekera|Nicholas Jayasekera]]), where the findings were similar, though the statistically significant bridge between the two cohorts in the previous study evaporated in the follow-up study. This may be due to the significant decline in mental health problems observed in the regular unit forces, potentially reflecting resilience in the aftermath of jarring conflict&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Hanwella|first=Raveen|last2=Jayasekera|first2=Nicholas E. L. W.|last3=Silva|first3=Varuni A. de|date=2014-09-25|title=Mental Health Status of Sri Lanka Navy Personnel Three Years after End of Combat Operations: A Follow Up Study|url=https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0108113|journal=PLOS ONE|language=en|volume=9|issue=9|pages=e108113|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0108113|issn=1932-6203|pmc=4177866|pmid=25254557}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Amputees or soldiers with spinal injuries exhibited drastically different numbers, with approximately 40% of nearly 100 male-veterans in a post-war 2009 study displaying PTSD-like symptoms&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Abeyasinghe|first=N. L.|last2=de Zoysa|first2=P.|last3=Bandara|first3=K.M.K.C.|last4=Bartholameuz|first4=N. A.|last5=Bandara|first5=J. M.U.J.|date=2012-05-01|title=The prevalence of symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder among soldiers with amputation of a limb or spinal injury: A report from a rehabilitation centre in Sri Lanka|url=https://doi.org/10.1080/13548506.2011.608805|journal=Psychology, Health &amp; Medicine|volume=17|issue=3|pages=376–381|doi=10.1080/13548506.2011.608805|issn=1354-8506|pmid=21942815}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

About a decade after the conflict ceased, a few notable studies have emerged to help guide understanding on the longer-term mental health effects on victims of the civil war. 

From July 2019 to October 2020, a study was conducted on 585 local adolescents (ages 12-19) in the Vavuniya district revealed that despite 15.6% of the statistic having faced one or more war-related events, only 3.9% of the participants had moderate - severe depression. In addition to considerably low depression rates, only 5.7% of participants age 17+ were found to have moderate - severe hopelessness&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Dissanayake|first=Lasith|last2=Jabir|first2=Sameeha|last3=Shepherd|first3=Thomas|last4=Helliwell|first4=Toby|last5=Selvaratnam|first5=Lavan|last6=Jayaweera|first6=Kaushalya|last7=Abeysinghe|first7=Nihal|last8=Mallen|first8=Christian|last9=Sumathipala|first9=Athula|date=2023-08-31|title=The aftermath of war; mental health, substance use and their correlates with social support and resilience among adolescents in a post-conflict region of Sri Lanka|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s13034-023-00648-1|journal=Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Mental Health|language=en|volume=17|issue=1|pages=101|doi=10.1186/s13034-023-00648-1|issn=1753-2000|pmc=10472617|pmid=37653394}}&lt;/ref&gt;. The authors referenced a 2010 observation by psychiatrist [https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/author/daya-somasundaram Daya Somasundaram], who noted that many Tamil IDPs exhibited &quot;remarkable resilience and post-traumatic growth&quot; after the civil war—an outcome he attributed to the close-knit, family-centered nature of Tamil communities&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Somasundaram|first=Daya|date=2010-07-28|title=Collective trauma in the Vanni- a qualitative inquiry into the mental health of the internally displaced due to the civil war in Sri Lanka|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/1752-4458-4-22|journal=International Journal of Mental Health Systems|volume=4|issue=1|pages=22|doi=10.1186/1752-4458-4-22|issn=1752-4458|pmc=2923106|pmid=20667090}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Findings originating from a 2019 study undertook by several faculty members from the University of Kelaniya, the University of Jaffna, the [[w:Gampaha_Wickramarachchi_University_of_Indigenous_Medicine|Gampaha Wickramarachchi University of Indigenous Medicine]], and the [https://onur.gov.lk/ Office for National Unity and Reconciliation (ONUR)] in Jaffna, found contrasting statistics. Out of 336 participants from districts that faced significant ramifications of the conflict (Jaffna, Kilinochchi, Mullaithivu, Vavuniya, and Mannar districts), 50.5% had extreme anxiety symptoms and 36.5% exhibited &quot;extremely severe&quot; symptoms of depression. 92.5% of families in the sample experienced suicidal ideation, with an observed negative correlation between trauma exposure and life satisfaction with families. Drug abuse (86.2%) and alcohol abuse (84.5%) were the two highest problematic behaviors recorded on a community-level, suggesting that the negative consequences of the civil war still persist, possibly on a substantial scale than previously recognized, in Tamil communities in the North&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Thamotharampillai|first=Umaharan|last2=Perera|first2=Ruwanthi|last3=Wickremasinghe|first3=Rajitha|last4=Williams|first4=Shehan|last5=Vijayasangar|first5=Thedsanamoorthy|last6=Sivatharsan|first6=Balasubramaniam|last7=Hilbert|first7=Vanceline|last8=Somasundaram|first8=Daya|date=2025-05-06|title=Collective Trauma- Psychosocial consequences of war in northern Sri Lanka 10 years on, a mixed methods study|url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666560325000696|journal=SSM - Mental Health|pages=100457|doi=10.1016/j.ssmmh.2025.100457|issn=2666-5603}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Further research should be conducted in this field. 

In 2019, [https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/R-M-M-Monaragala-2087692299 Dr. R. M. M. Monaragala] conducted a study on 1,845 soldiers with combat experience, finding that 3.9% of the sample suffered from PTSD. Dr. Monaragala noted that &quot;probable depression, fatigue, aggression, and family history of mental disorder&quot; were correlative of PTSD presence. He suggested that &quot;screening and psychosocial intervention&quot; were recommended avenues to alleviate CMDs of former combatants&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Monaragala|first=R. M. M.|date=2024-04-19|title=Exploring the effects of the past civil war in terms of the prevalence and associating factors of PTSD|url=https://sljpsyc.sljol.info/articles/10.4038/sljpsyc.v14i2.8465|journal=Sri Lanka Journal of Psychiatry|language=en-US|volume=14|issue=2|doi=10.4038/sljpsyc.v14i2.8465|issn=2012-6883}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 

=== 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami ===
The '''2004 Boxing Day Tsunami''' was a natural disaster where a tsunami spawned off a 9.2–9.3 magnitude earthquake off the coast of Aceh in Indonesia on December 26.  The tsunami greatly affected the coastlines of the country, with the death toll reaching to about 35,000 deaths. In addition, 90,000 houses were destroyed and 516,000 people were forced to migrate due to severe infrastructural damage&lt;ref name=&quot;:5&quot; /&gt;. It stands as the [http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/tsunami_relief/119821.htm worst natural disaster to have ever hit Sri Lanka].  
[[File:Tsunami relief 2004 02.jpg|thumb|300x300px|Volunteers from [[w:Royal_College,_Colombo|Royal College in Colombo]] assisting in tsunami relief efforts (Sarvodaya Headquaters, Moratuwa).]]
A survey conducted on schoolchildren (ages 8-14) in Manadkadu (Tamil-majority village in the northern coast), [[w:Kosgoda|Kosgoda]] (western coast), and [[w:Galle|Galle]] (southern coast), just a few weeks after the tsunami hit Sri Lanka, revealed that 33.8%, 13.9%, and 38.8% of children interviewed exhibited signs of PTSD (according to the DSM-IV's criteria), respectively (minus the time criteria, as the DSM-IV does not permit diagnosis of PTSD within 4 weeks of a traumatic incident). The loss of family members and exposure to previously traumatic incidents seem to highly correlate with PTSD development&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Neuner|first=Frank|last2=Schauer|first2=Elisabeth|last3=Catani|first3=Claudia|last4=Ruf|first4=Martina|last5=Elbert|first5=Thomas|date=2006|title=Post-tsunami stress: A study of posttraumatic stress disorder in children living in three severely affected regions in Sri Lanka|url=https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jts.20121|journal=Journal of Traumatic Stress|language=en|volume=19|issue=3|pages=339–347|doi=10.1002/jts.20121|issn=1573-6598}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 

Many victims in the Jaffna area suffered with &quot;[https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/prolonged-grief-disorder pathological grief], phobias, depression and PTSD&quot; post-tsunami. Schizophrenia in the Jaffna Tamil community, which had already suffered elevated prevalence of PTSD prior to the tsunami, had worsened—highlighting the need for specialized care in response to cumulative exposures to chronic and acute traumas. In a study published in the journal ''International Psychiatry'' (2006), Jaffna-based researchers noted that, contrary to their initial inclinations, there was not a &quot;large[r] (than expected) rise in [the] number of people&quot; seeking mental health support 3 months after the tsunami. However, 10 months after the disaster, the researchers anticipated that &quot;more psychiatric disorders&quot; would emerge due to &quot;very little rebuilding [efforts]&quot; and an apparent &quot;unfairness in the aid system&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Somasundaram|first=D. J.|last2=Yoganathan|first2=S.|last3=Ganesvaran|first3=T.|date=1993-09|title=Schizophrenia in northern Sri Lanka|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7828234|journal=The Ceylon Medical Journal..|volume=38|issue=3|pages=131–135|issn=0009-0875|pmid=7828234}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Danvers|first=K.|last2=Sivayokan|first2=S.|last3=Somasundaram|first3=D. J.|last4=Sivashankar|first4=R.|date=2006-07|title=Ten months on: qualitative assessment of psychosocial issues in northern Sri Lanka following the tsunami|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6734678/|journal=International Psychiatry: Bulletin of the Board of International Affairs of the Royal College of Psychiatrists|volume=3|issue=3|pages=5–8|issn=1749-3676|pmc=6734678|pmid=31507850}}&lt;/ref&gt; 

At the February 2005 ''After the Tsunami: Mental Health Challenges to the Community for Today and Tomorrow'' conference in Thailand, [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chandanie-Hewage Dr. Chandanie Hewage] of the [[w:University_of_Ruhuna|University of Ruhuna]] reported measures taken to assist the affected were &quot;not coordinated&quot; due to poor &quot;communication systems and road [conditions]&quot;, which were disrupted by the Boxing Day tsunami. Regardless, efforts were continued by the government and health professionals to alleviate the struggles the victims were facing, including the psychological ramifications of the disaster. 

Several issues in the delivery of these services were highlighted by Dr. Hewage, including poor maintenance of health records, lack of awareness on drug consumption by the patients themselves, and shortages of health professionals. Dr. Hewage points out that personnel had &quot;little&quot; mental health training prior to the disaster, suggesting increased &quot;research&quot; and adequate &quot;provision[ing] and training of staff&quot; in the long-term&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Davidson|first=Jonathan R. T.|date=2006|title=Foreword. After the tsunami: mental health challenges to the community for today and tomorrow|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16602809|journal=The Journal of Clinical Psychiatry|volume=67 Suppl 2|pages=3–8|issn=0160-6689|pmid=16602809}}&lt;/ref&gt;. With inadequate documentation, no systematic procedures in place, and insufficient personnel, tsunami victims with mental health concerns may not receive the services they need, further compacting neuropsychological ailments.  

In 2008 (about 3-4 years after the tsunami), researchers in the hard-hit village of [[w:Peraliya|Peraliya]] (Galle District) found that from a sample of approximately 90 adults, 25% suffered from moderate–severe PTSD, with women scoring &quot;above the cut-off for anxiety&quot; and reporting more &quot;somatic symptoms&quot;, though researchers inferred that the PTSD rate found in the study may be influenced by war or economic hardship&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Hollifield|first=Michael|last2=Hewage|first2=Chandanie|last3=Gunawardena|first3=Charlotte N.|last4=Kodituwakku|first4=Piyadasa|last5=Bopagoda|first5=Kalum|last6=Weerarathnege|first6=Krishantha|last7=Group|first7=International Post-Tsunami Study|date=2008-01|title=Symptoms and coping in Sri Lanka 20–21 months after the 2004 tsunami|url=https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/symptoms-and-coping-in-sri-lanka-2021-months-after-the-2004-tsunami/CB33752239AF362A0BFD55B3668D60B0|journal=The British Journal of Psychiatry|language=en|volume=192|issue=1|pages=39–44|doi=10.1192/bjp.bp.107.038422|issn=0007-1250}}&lt;/ref&gt;.  

=== 2019 Easter Bombings ===
The '''2019 Easter Bombings''' were a series of coordinated attacks perpetrated by the Islamic extremist group, [[w:National_Thowheeth_Jama'ath|National Thowheeth Jama'ath]], on April 21, 2019. The attack targeted three churches and three hotels in the Colombo area, killing nearly 300 people and injuring over 500. The attack was also attributed to the incompetency of the Sri Lankan government, who ignored [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48044636 multiple warnings regarding the attacks]. The attacks negatively affected the Sri Lankan Catholic community and further weakened relations between the major religious groups&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Jayawickreme|first=Nuwan|last2=Jayawickreme|first2=Eranda|last3=McCaffrey|first3=Amy Z.|last4=Thiruvarangan|first4=Mahendran|date=2025-06-01|title=Mental health futures in post-war Sri Lanka: Resilience, relational pluralism, and implementation pathways|url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666560325000775|journal=SSM - Mental Health|volume=7|pages=100465|doi=10.1016/j.ssmmh.2025.100465|issn=2666-5603}}&lt;/ref&gt;.  

In the aftermath of the attacks, professionals in the [[w:Gampaha_District|Gampaha District]] resorted to &quot;low-cost methodological&quot; responses to children and adolescents affected by the attack as a &quot;severe shortage&quot; of children and adolescent mental health experts were exposed&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chandradasa|first=Miyuru|last2=Rathnayake|first2=Layani C|last3=Rowel|first3=Madushi|last4=Fernando|first4=Lalin|date=2020-06-01|title=Early phase child and adolescent psychiatry response after mass trauma: Lessons learned from the Easter Sunday attack in Sri Lanka|url=https://doi.org/10.1177/0020764020913314|journal=International Journal of Social Psychiatry|language=EN|volume=66|issue=4|pages=331–334|doi=10.1177/0020764020913314|issn=0020-7640}}&lt;/ref&gt;. In a qualitative study of 8 survivors of the attacks receiving grief counseling, [[w:University_of_Ruhuna|University of Ruhuna]] assistant professor [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Virasha-Godakanda Virasha Godakanda] observed that 70% of the sample size expressed &quot;doubts&quot; in adequate mental health interventions from the government, reducing the quality of such services. Professor Godakanda strongly endorsed for &quot;culturally-sensitive&quot; programs, a diversity in therapeutic approaches (including nature-based therapy), and &quot;prolonged investigations&quot; to track developments in mental health resources and impacts of implemented interventions&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Godakanda|first=Virasha|date=2025-01-29|title=A GRIEF COUNSELING INTERVENTION AFTER THE MASS TRAUMA: LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE VICTIMS OF THE EASTER SUNDAY ATTACK IN SRI LANKA|url=https://kjmr.com.pk/kjmr/article/view/216|journal=Kashf Journal of Multidisciplinary Research|language=en|volume=2|issue=01|pages=13–32|doi=10.71146/kjmr216|issn=3007-200X}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 

A few weeks following the attacks, Muslims in Sri Lanka were subjected to [[w:2019_anti-Muslim_riots_in_Sri_Lanka|violent, coordinated riots]] masterminded by Sinhalese national forces&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Mujahidin|first=Muhammad Saekul|date=2023-07-03|title=Extremism and Islamophobia Against the Muslim Minority in Sri Lanka|url=https://www.ajis.org/|journal=American Journal of Islam and Society|language=en|volume=40|issue=1-2|pages=213–241|doi=10.35632/ajis.v40i1-2.3135|issn=2690-3741}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Riots were mainly centered in the [[w:Kurunegala_District|Kurunegala]], Gampaha, and [[w:Kandy_District|Kandy]] Districts. At least [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/5/21/in-sri-lanka-muslims-say-sinhala-neighbours-turned-against-them one confirmed death was reported]. Calls for vague ''niqab'' and ''burqa'' bans were increasingly prominent, eventually leading to the 2021 burqa ban by the Sri Lankan government. Pakistani and Afghani refugees fleeing religious persecution in Negombo were forced to be &quot;made refugees again&quot; after local protests were orchestrated against their settlement. Islamophobic aroma was &quot;unleashed online, in the law, and on the street&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title=CARTOGRAPHIC JOURNEY OF RACE, GENDER AND POWER: global identity|date=2021|publisher=CAMBRIDGE SCHOLARS PUBLIS|isbn=978-1-5275-6965-2|location=S.l.}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Albeit its relevancy to the attacks, no in-depth mental health studies were administered on the minority Muslim population following the Easter bombings. Further research is imperative in exploring the sustained psychological effects of Islamophobia and its effect on the Muslim minority community in the aftermath of the 2019 Easter attacks. 

Literature regarding the impact of the 2019 Easter Bombings on mental health are limited and further research should be done in the field.  

=== 2019-2024 Economic Crisis ===
The '''2019-2024 Economic Crisis''' refers to a 5 year period where the Sri Lankan economy experienced massive inflation and an abrupt hike in prices on basic, everyday items. It is the worse economic crisis the country has faced since the Sri Lankans were granted independence in 1948. Schools in Sri Lanka were forced to postpone examinations due to paper shortages. Gas shortages led to long lines at gas stations, some lasting for days, throughout the island. Shortages in electricity, cooking gas, and aviation were additional results of the economic crisis.

Healthcare workers faced a barrage of mental health during the crisis, including a lopsided work-life balance due to unprecedented demand, increased stress and mental fatigue from a lack of resources and personnel, unhealthy coping mechanisms, job dissatisfaction, and a reduction in work quality. Such effects perpetuate a self-enforcing cycle of psychologically distressed mental healthcare workers providing subpar services, affecting patients and amplifying mental health issues experienced by both the workforce and their patients&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Dilogini|first=S.|last2=Grace|first2=H. H.|last3=Thasika|first3=T.|date=2024|title=Exploring The Mental Health and Well-Being of Public Healthcare Workers (HCWs) Amid Economic Crisis in Sri Lanka|url=http://repo.lib.jfn.ac.lk/ujrr/handle/123456789/11092|language=en|publisher=Chartered Institute of Personnel Management}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 

Medical students from the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Colombo reported that the economic crisis forced abrupt changes in dietary consumption, increased hopelessness in the future, increased stress and anxiety, and a decrease in interest in pursuing a &quot;clinical post-graduate career&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Adikaranayake|first=Pesala Randika|last2=Perera|first2=Anusha Nimrod|last3=Nilaweera|first3=Akhila Imantha|last4=Fernando|first4=Desha Rajni|last5=Wijayaratne|first5=Dilushi Rowena|date=2025-07-01|title=Effects of Sri Lankan economic crisis on health, lifestyle and education of medical students in Faculty of Medicine, University of Colombo – an online survey|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s12909-025-07506-y|journal=BMC Medical Education|language=en|volume=25|issue=1|pages=938|doi=10.1186/s12909-025-07506-y|issn=1472-6920|pmc=12211748}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 283 government-school teachers completed a web-based cross-sectional survey in April 2024, with majority of the participants reporting a severe reduction in monthly income &amp; 1/3 of participants exhibiting &quot;clinical levels of psychological distress&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Senevirathne|first=C. P.|last2=Senarathne|first2=D. L. P.|last3=Fernando|first3=M. S.|last4=Senevirathne|first4=S. P.|date=2025-05-28|title=Examining the economic burden and mental health distress among government school teachers in Sri Lanka: a cross-sectional study|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s40359-025-02921-8|journal=BMC Psychology|language=en|volume=13|issue=1|pages=572|doi=10.1186/s40359-025-02921-8|issn=2050-7283}}&lt;/ref&gt;. A study published in that same year reported that out of 261 nurses working in teaching hospitals, 91.6% were forced to allocate their finances to strictly &quot;general needs&quot;, while more than 50% looked into international opportunism for employment. Notably, the study reported an overall near &quot;twofold greater&quot; rate of depression, anxiety, and stress compared to previously conducted studies on nurses&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Senevirathne|first=C.P|last2=Senarathne|first2=L.|last3=Fernando|first3=M.|date=2024-04-01|title=Exploring the Association Between Behavioural Modification in Response to the Prevailing Economic Crisis and Mental Health Outcomes of Nurses from Teaching Hospitals, Sri Lanka|url=https://doi.org/10.1177/23779608241272679|journal=SAGE Open Nursing|language=EN|volume=10|pages=23779608241272679|doi=10.1177/23779608241272679|issn=2377-9608|pmc=11311183}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 

The detrimental effects the crisis has had on the mental health sector reveal a concerning area of underappreciation and under compensation by the Sri Lankan government towards a critical sector for the well-being of the country. Comprehensive mental health interventions need to be prepared and ready to implement at times of national emergencies. 

== Present-Day Challenges ==

=== Ethnic tension ===
Despite the end of the Sri Lankan civil war and the introduction of pluralist policies, such as the [https://srilankaembassy.fr/sites/default/files/files/media/pdf/NationalPolicy-English.pdf 2017 National Policy on Reconciliation and Coexistence] under the Sirisena administration, tensions amongst members of the ethnic groups still persist in the country. Evidence of these tensions was found through a 2022 study conducted in the Ratnapura district, where religious leaders expressed skepticisms, through semi-structured interviews, for &quot;conflict transformation&quot;. A Tamil citizen of the Ratnapura community recounted that they were forced to &quot;hide in jungles&quot; and consume &quot;dirty water in drainage[s]&quot; due to scarcity of food and drinkable water as a result of the conflict. In certain personal accounts, ethnic conflicts appear to affect the social behavior and identity of the majority ethnic group. One Sinhala participant recounted his objection to the war-time retaliatory destruction of a shop run by a Tamil shopkeeper was met with interrogative questions about &quot;whether [he was] Sinhalese or not&quot;. Both accounts convey interethnic tensions stemming from decade-long conflicts&lt;ref&gt;Jayathilaka, Aruna &amp; Gamage, Sayuri. (2024). Role of Buddhist and Hindu Religious Leaders Role of Buddhist and Hindu Religious Leaders in the Post-War Conflict Transformation Process: A Study Based on Rathnapura District in Srilanka. ''Retrieved from'' https://gandhimargjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Volume-46-Issue-1-April-June-2024.pdf#page=66&lt;/ref&gt;. 

Beyond individual accounts and the official end of the civil war, the minority groups in the country continue to feel ostracized. The Sri Lankan Tamil population remains dissatisfied with the Sri Lankan government and their accountability of perpetrators of war crimes and information on the whereabouts of [[w:Enforced_disappearances_in_Sri_Lanka|thousands of enforced disappearances]] that took place from the 1980s. Additionally, rising anti-Muslim sentiment in recent years contribute to increased ethnic tensions, a stark contrast to the previous centuries of peaceful co-existence between the groups. 
[[File:Bodu Bala Sena symbol.svg|thumb|The symbol for Bodu Bala Sena, a nationalistic Sinhala Buddhist group criticized for catalyzing ethnic tensions in Sri Lanka.]]
Laws passed by the Sri Lankan government, such as the [[w:Prevention_of_Terrorism_Act_(Sri_Lanka)|Prevention of Terrorism Act]] and [[wikipedia:Anti-conversion_law#Sri_Lanka|anti-conversion laws]], have forced the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom to label Sri Lanka as a nation that &quot;[engages] or [tolerates] severe violations of religious freedom&quot; in their 2024 report. The government has been criticized by human rights organizations for &quot;disproportionately targeting religious minorities&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Jayawickreme|first=Nuwan|last2=Jayawickreme|first2=Eranda|last3=McCaffrey|first3=Amy Z.|last4=Thiruvarangan|first4=Mahendran|date=2025-06-01|title=Mental health futures in post-war Sri Lanka: Resilience, relational pluralism, and implementation pathways|url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666560325000775|journal=SSM - Mental Health|volume=7|pages=100465|doi=10.1016/j.ssmmh.2025.100465|issn=2666-5603}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Additionally, the implementation of the three dominant languages, English, Sinhala, and Tamil, across formal education and government services have been lackadaisical, narrowing opportunities of foundational social interactions between the groups. Persistent discrimination and prejudice towards minority groups can lead to an array of complex and self-deprecating mental health issues.   

Effort to mitigate ethnic tensions include strategies like [[w:Community-based_participatory_research|community-based participatory research]] (CBPR), task-sharing, and securing online mental health services in order to expand mental health services. However, the implementation of evidence-based plans has been met with difficulty due to inaccessibility, high costs, and shortages of adequately-trained personnel.  

Movements aiming for improved intra group and inter group coexistences, such as the Jaffna People’s Forum for Coexistence developed in the wake of the 2019 Easter bombings, should be emphasized on a systematic and multi-level basis, including but not limited to education, public sectors, and within communities. Pluralistic values should be stressed across both private and public schools to foster cultural sensitivity and tolerance. Measures should be taken against threatening extremist groups promoting sectarian hostility, such as the [[w:Bodu_Bala_Sena|Bodu Bala Sena]]. 

=== Poverty ===
It has been proven that poverty significantly increases the chances of developing mental illnesses. This is further amplified by possible discrimination&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Knifton|first=Lee|last2=Inglis|first2=Greig|date=2020-10|title=Poverty and mental health: policy, practice and research implications|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7525587/|journal=BJPsych bulletin|volume=44|issue=5|pages=193–196|doi=10.1192/bjb.2020.78|issn=2056-4694|pmc=7525587|pmid=32744210}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Poverty also affects the ability for individuals with mental health concerns to receive the treatment they need. Due to the repercussions of the economic crisis, clients in Sri Lanka could not attend further counseling sessions&lt;ref name=&quot;:8&quot; /&gt;. Poverty from 2021 to 2022 [https://databankfiles.worldbank.org/public/ddpext_download/poverty/987B9C90-CB9F-4D93-AE8C-750588BF00QA/current/Global_POVEQ_LKA.pdf reportedly doubled], with future forecasts predicting the poverty line to &quot;remain above 25 percent&quot;. Suicide has been empirically linked to economic hardships in previous studies&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Kithulagoda|first=A. S.|last2=Gunasinghe|first2=U. C. M.|last3=Senevirathna|first3=J. M. M. S.|last4=Nufail|first4=A. L. M.|last5=Alahakoon|first5=A. M. S. S.|date=2025-07-16|title=An Analysis of Attempted Suicide Cases Registered at Teaching Hospital Batticaloa, Sri Lanka|url=https://bmj.sljol.info/articles/10.4038/bmj.v19i1.67|journal=Batticaloa Medical Journal|language=en-US|volume=19|issue=1|doi=10.4038/bmj.v19i1.67|issn=1800-4903}}&lt;/ref&gt;. A 2013 study done on suicidal patients in [[w:Batticaloa_Teaching_Hospital|Batticaloa Teaching Hospital]] revealed 76% of patients who attempted suicide were from rural areas while 15% were from urban areas&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=http://ir.lib.seu.ac.lk/handle/123456789/1457|title=The influence of common risk factors for the patient with attempted suicide hospitalized at the teaching hospital, Batticaloa|last=Kisokanth|first=G.|last2=Najeem|first2=M. M.|last3=Karunakaran|first3=K. E.|date=2014-08-02|publisher=South Eastern University of Sri Lanka, University Park, Oluvil #32360, Sri Lanka|isbn=978-955-627-053-2|language=en-US}}&lt;/ref&gt;. The Sri Lankan government should consider the economical impacts that poverty has on mental health and implement ways to aid poverty-stricken individuals with mental health concerns.   

=== Stigmas ===
Stigma consists of the &quot;combined effect of prejudice, ignorance and discrimination.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:10&quot;&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://www.researchgate.net/publication/233990797_The_Stigma_of_Mental_Illness_in_Sri_Lanka_The_Perspectives_of_Community_Mental_Health_Workers|title=(PDF) The Stigma of Mental Illness in Sri Lanka: The Perspectives of Community Mental Health Workers|website=ResearchGate|language=en|access-date=2025-07-25}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

A 2012 interview consisting of nine participants (two doctors, three nurses, one occupational therapist, one development worker, and two volunteers) revealed a number of concerning societal viewpoints on individuals with mental health concerns. The interviews revealed that negative judgements were not only levied against the individual with the mental illness, but also the family. Families hid mentally ill family members from the public to avoid &quot;shame&quot; and possible hinderances in marriage proposals. Views that mentally ill individuals were &quot;violent&quot; served as the motivating factor behind socially isolating those with mental illness from their communities. Interviewees mentioned that individuals dealing with mental health challenges would have stones and &quot;derogatory names&quot; launched at them. A lack of community awareness regarding mental health and negative portrayals of mentally ill individuals in media exacerbates stigmatization, though the researchers commented that the media was &quot;improving&quot; in their depiction of mental illness. Beliefs that illnesses are caused by &quot;spirits&quot; can be problematic for individuals dealing with mental health issues and serves as evidence to poor mental health awareness in the country. Mental health workers themselves believed that they were being stigmatized, as mental health is reportedly not taken as seriously as physical health. Despite the intriguing perspectives provided, the small sample size and usage of snow sampling raise questionable concerns regarding the contextualization of the results&lt;ref name=&quot;:10&quot; /&gt;. 

Improving media portrayal of subjects concerning mental health and involving community members in interventions dealing with mental health issues are ways that could destigmatize mental health amongst communities in Sri Lanka. Tying collaborations between allopathic services and traditional healers instead of having these two services work individually could enhance engagement between traditional medicine and Western medicine.

=== Suicide Trends &amp; Risk Factors ===
Suicide is defined as &quot;the act of killing oneself deliberately, initiated and performed by the person concerned in the full knowledge or expectation of its fatal outcome&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:11&quot;&gt;{{Cite book|title=The neuroscience of suicidal behavior|last=Heeringen|first=Kees van|date=2018|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-316-60290-4|series=Cambridge fundamentals of neuroscience in psychology|location=Cambridge, United Kingdom New York, NY, USA Port Melbourne, VIC, Australia New Delhi, India Singapore}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Although Sri Lanka has seen a significant reduction in suicide rates from the mid 1990s due to its banning of extremely toxic pesticide products, suicide and self harm remains a significant issue. The suicide rate per 100,000 people increased from 14.0 in 2019 to [https://www.who.int/srilanka/news/detail/06-09-2024-world-suicide-prevention-day-2024--changing-the-narrative-on-suicide 15.0 in 2022] (according to WHO). On average, 27 males per 100,000 males and 5 females per 100,000 females committed suicide in 2022&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Kithulagoda|first=A. S.|last2=Gunasinghe|first2=U. C. M.|last3=Senevirathna|first3=J. M. M. S.|last4=Nufail|first4=A. L. M.|last5=Alahakoon|first5=A. M. S. S.|date=2025-07-16|title=An Analysis of Attempted Suicide Cases Registered at Teaching Hospital Batticaloa, Sri Lanka|url=https://bmj.sljol.info/articles/10.4038/bmj.v19i1.67|journal=Batticaloa Medical Journal|language=en-US|volume=19|issue=1|doi=10.4038/bmj.v19i1.67|issn=1800-4903}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Hanging appears to be the most used method for suicide for both males and females, with studies revealing a steady increase in recent years&lt;ref name=&quot;:12&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Bandara|first=Piumee|last2=Wickrama|first2=Prabath|last3=Sivayokan|first3=Sambasivamoorthy|last4=Knipe|first4=Duleeka|last5=Rajapakse|first5=Thilini|date=2024-04-17|title=Reflections on the trends of suicide in Sri Lanka, 1997–2022: The need for continued vigilance|url=https://journals.plos.org/globalpublichealth/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgph.0003054|journal=PLOS Global Public Health|language=en|volume=4|issue=4|pages=e0003054|doi=10.1371/journal.pgph.0003054|issn=2767-3375|pmc=11023397|pmid=38630779}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 

From 2023 to 2024, a group of researchers from the [[w:Eastern_University,_Sri_Lanka|Eastern University in Sri Lanka]] assessed 828 patients admitted to the Teaching Hospital in [[w:Batticaloa,_Sri_Lanka|Batticaloa, Sri Lanka]] for attempted suicide. They concluded that suicide prevention programs should be attuned to younger people (ages 15 to 35 in the study), emphasize the importance of education and reducing unemployment, and increase social support in the Tamil community. Despite the relevant insights into certain aspects of an average Sri Lankan's life that could lead to suicidal ideation (ie, poverty), the results from this study suffer in external validity as 90% of the patients were Tamil and over 50% were between 16 and 25 years. In addition, correlations between suicide and unemployment rates have been questioned, with [[w:Austerity|austerity]] being a more reliable indicator of suicide rates than unemployment rates&lt;ref name=&quot;:11&quot; /&gt;. Further comprehensive studies on risk factors relating to suicide should be studied to assess correlations between unemployment rates and austerity measures.  

The WHO suggests implementing evidence-based suicide prevention programs, such as [https://www.who.int/initiatives/live-life-initiative-for-suicide-prevention LIVE LIFE], to reduce the national suicide rate&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.who.int/srilanka/news/detail/06-09-2024-world-suicide-prevention-day-2024--changing-the-narrative-on-suicide|title=World Suicide Prevention day 2024 “Changing the Narrative on Suicide”|website=www.who.int|language=en|access-date=2025-07-29}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Media potrayals of suicidal methods, such as hanging, can lead to sensationalism and the media should be cautious of such displays in movies and TV shows&lt;ref name=&quot;:12&quot; /&gt;. Awareness of depression and other mental health issues can serve as a safeguard against suicidal ideation in Sri Lankan men and women.  

== Role of Religion ==
According to the last demographic report (2012), 70.2% of Sri Lankans are Buddhist, 12.6% are Hindus, 9.7% are Muslims, and 7.4% are Christians. The Theravada Buddhist community makes up the majority in several provinces throughout the country&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/sri-lanka/|title=Sri Lanka|website=United States Department of State|language=en-US|access-date=2025-08-07}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Religion, especially Theravada Buddhism, has had a significant influence on not only the historical treatment of mental health in the country, but also everyday life&lt;ref name=&quot;:15&quot; /&gt;. The [[w:Mahāvaṃsa|''Mahāvaṃsa'']] affirms hospitals treating patients suffering from mental health issues as early as the 4th century BC. Additionally, the 1700s Nayaka king [[w:Kirti_Sri_Rajasinha|Kirthi Sri Rajasinghe]] detailed the implementation of Buddhist philosophy in psychiatry&lt;ref name=&quot;:4&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Alwis|first=L. A. P. De|date=2017-12-05|title=Development of civil commitment statutes (laws of involuntary detention and treatment) in Sri Lanka: a historical review|url=https://mljsl.sljol.info/articles/10.4038/mljsl.v5i1.7351|journal=Medico-Legal Journal of Sri Lanka|language=en|volume=5|issue=1|doi=10.4038/mljsl.v5i1.7351|issn=2012-8231}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

Modern-day empirical studies have attested to the usefulness of religion in mitigating stress and elevating mental health&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://doi.org/10.1007/978-94-007-4276-5_22|title=Religion and Mental Health|last=Schieman|first=Scott|last2=Bierman|first2=Alex|last3=Ellison|first3=Christopher G.|date=2013|publisher=Springer Netherlands|isbn=978-94-007-4276-5|editor-last=Aneshensel|editor-first=Carol S.|location=Dordrecht|pages=457–478|language=en|doi=10.1007/978-94-007-4276-5_22|editor-last2=Phelan|editor-first2=Jo C.|editor-last3=Bierman|editor-first3=Alex}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Religion has been found to be positively correlated with improved mental health, and more religious patients were concluded to have &quot;better mental health and adapt[ed] more quickly to health problems&quot; versus patients who weren't religious&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Koenig|first=Harold G.|date=2012|title=Religion, spirituality, and health: the research and clinical implications|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3671693/|journal=ISRN psychiatry|volume=2012|pages=278730|doi=10.5402/2012/278730|issn=2090-7966|pmc=3671693|pmid=23762764}}&lt;/ref&gt;. [https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/T-N-Wickramarathna-2247724082 Dr. Wickramarathna] of the University Psychiatry Unit (UPU) at the National Hospital of Sri Lanka (NHSL) argues that psychiatrists must strive for a balance in their approach to patients and &quot;make positive use of religion in [their] practice[s]&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Wickramarathna|first=T. N.|date=2022-12-31|title=Psychiatrists should stand far from the shrine: why and why not we should separate religion from psychiatry|url=https://sljpsyc.sljol.info/articles/10.4038/sljpsyc.v13i2.8397|journal=Sri Lanka Journal of Psychiatry|language=en|volume=13|issue=2|doi=10.4038/sljpsyc.v13i2.8397|issn=2012-6883}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

=== Buddhism ===
27 Sinhalese Buddhists from four Buddhist temples were selected for a series of 70-minute interviews and focus group discussions with the aim of learning the Sinhala Buddhist understanding and experience of spiritual well-being and psychological well-being. The interviewees held spiritual wellness to be the &quot;center&quot; of overall wellness, the &quot;precondition for a successful life&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:14&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Udayanga|first=Samitha|date=2021-06-30|title=Cultural understanding of ‘spiritual well-being’ and ‘psychological well-being’ among Sinhalese Buddhists in Sri Lanka|url=https://sljss.sljol.info/articles/10.4038/sljss.v44i1.7990|journal=Sri Lanka Journal of Social Sciences|language=en-US|volume=44|issue=1|doi=10.4038/sljss.v44i1.7990|issn=0258-9710}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Sinhala Buddhists believe that wellness cannot be achieved without spiritual tranquility. The report states that participants emphasized that spirituality &quot;cannot be directly intervened&quot; and can only be seen through &quot;[interactions] with society&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:14&quot; /&gt;. Despite the ''athmaya'' (soul) being &quot;unreachable&quot;, it can be &quot;intervened&quot;, or treated, through the actions of the mind and body with society&lt;ref name=&quot;:14&quot; /&gt;. One being &quot;psychologically ill&quot; can affect one's spiritual being, as the participants reported in their interviews, and can be affected through &quot;lifestyle stressors, environmental and socio-cultural causes, non-human related causes and bad-karma in the past lives&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:14&quot; /&gt;.  

The researchers concluded that despite Sinhala Buddhists not being able to articulately decipher the discrepancies between psychological well-being and spiritual well-being, they are able to conceptualize and maintain a culturally embedded understanding between the two, serving as reputable evidence of the integration of mental health in Sinhala Buddhist practices. However, it is important to note that these results come from a very small sample size and cannot be generalized to all Sri Lankan Buddhists.   

In addition, a 2009 study found that a belief in karma was correlated with poor health. However, an earlier study found a positive correlation between the reliance on the [[w:Karma_in_Buddhism|Buddhist concept of karma]] and trauma, inferencing Buddhist karma being a prevalent response to trauma&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Levy|first=Becca R.|last2=Slade|first2=Martin D.|last3=Ranasinghe|first3=Padmini|date=2009-03|title=Causal thinking after a tsunami wave: karma beliefs, pessimistic explanatory style and health among Sri Lankan survivors|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19229624|journal=Journal of Religion and Health|volume=48|issue=1|pages=38–45|doi=10.1007/s10943-008-9162-5|issn=1573-6571|pmid=19229624}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Overall, the effectiveness of karma as a coping mechanism appears to be conflicted.   

Studies indicate that other practices of Buddhism seem to be utilized by individuals affected by the war. 40% of Sri Lankan Buddhists affected by the 2004 tsunami found the Buddhist ritual ''Bodhipuja'' to be helpful in dealing with traumatic experiences&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://jmvh.org/article/mental-health-and-the-role-of-cultural-and-religious-support-in-the-assistance-of-disabled-veterans-in-sri-lanka/|title=Mental Health and the Role of Cultural and Religious Support in the Assistance of Disabled Veterans in Sri Lanka|website=JMVH|language=en-US|access-date=2025-08-12}}&lt;/ref&gt;.    

=== Catholicism ===
Catholic counseling refers to &quot;a nuanced and holistic mental health care paradigm that intricately weaves together psychological science with the moral, spiritual, and pastoral traditions of the Catholic Church&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:13&quot;&gt;Perera, U. [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Udeshini-Perera/publication/394095042_Catholic_Counselling_in_Sri_Lanka_Integrating_Faith_Psychology_and_Cultural_Healing/links/6889303af8031739e6098c79/Catholic-Counselling-in-Sri-Lanka-Integrating-Faith-Psychology-and-Cultural-Healing.pdf Catholic Counselling in Sri Lanka: Integrating Faith, Psychology, and Cultural Healing]. July 2025.&lt;/ref&gt; and aims to assimilate Catholic theology and evidence-based psychological treatment while including Sri Lankan cultural elements. This is achieved through emphasis on community cohesion and a locally-based understanding of &quot;personhood&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:13&quot; /&gt;. 

The origins of Catholic counseling trace back to the introduction of Roman Catholicism to the island in the 1600s, with the focus of the early Sri Lankan Catholic community being on &quot;[[w:Evangelism|evangelization]], education, and sacramental formation&quot;. Demand for counseling services in general increased due to the impacts of the Sri Lankan Civil War, where Catholic organizations (Caritas Sri Lanka, Seth Sarana, Subodhi Integral Centre (Piliyandala), etc.) established several Catholic-based trauma-informed programmes for victims of the Civil War. Programmes use group therapy, forgiveness rituals, and narrative repairs to alleviate war trauma. 

Examples of integration of Catholic virtues and counseling can be seen in [[w:Cognitive_Behavioral_Therapy|Cognitive Behavioral Therapy]] (CBT), where &quot;hope&quot; and &quot;humility&quot; are used as the frameworks for creating spiritual resilience&lt;ref name=&quot;:13&quot; /&gt;. The general Christian call of &quot;agape love and acceptance&quot; is echoed by the concept of [[w:Unconditional_positive_regard|unconditional positive regard]]. ''[[w:Lectio_Divina|Lectio Divina]]'' (Catholic prayer and meditation) and ''Marian devotions'' are integrated into therapeutic practices to achieve emotional regulation and mindfulness.   

Senior Lecturer [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Udeshini-Perera Udeshini Perera] of the University of Colombo articulates a critical role of Catholic counseling. She claims that secular counseling fails to address the &quot;spiritual roots of distress and moral confusion&quot;. Catholic counseling fills in this gap by integrating &quot;psychological insights with a transcendent orientation, supporting lasting transformation and integrity&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:13&quot; /&gt;.  

As of 2025, no formal accreditation or standardized training exists for [[w:Pastoral_counseling|pastoral counselors]] in Sri Lanka, hampering the legitimacy of Catholic counseling. Udeshini Perera remarks that mental health stigma, lack of standardized training, research regarding Catholic counseling effectiveness, and acceptance of the combination of religion and science in a professional setting present challenges for Catholic pastoral counseling in the country. Additionally, Catholic psychiatry in Sri Lanka appears to be under-researched, and evidence of its empirical effects on followers appears sparse. Further research is needed in assessing the empirical effects of Catholic counseling in Sri Lanka.  

=== Islam ===
The literature on the empirical effects of Islamic-based psychotherapy in Sri Lanka is limited. Research has revealed a 2012 case study where a 21-year-old Muslim woman was experiencing episodic possession states. The patient ceased attending psychiatric services and opted for religious rituals. The patient reported, in a follow-up visit, that the possession states had been absent for 3 months since her switch to religious rituals. The woman and her family attributed the apparent improvement of her condition to religious rituals&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Hanwella|first=Raveen|last2=de Silva|first2=Varuni|last3=Yoosuf|first3=Alam|last4=Karunaratne|first4=Sanjeewani|last5=de Silva|first5=Pushpa|date=2012|title=Religious Beliefs, Possession States, and Spirits: Three Case Studies from Sri Lanka|url=http://www.hindawi.com/journals/crips/2012/232740/|journal=Case Reports in Psychiatry|language=en|volume=2012|pages=1–3|doi=10.1155/2012/232740|issn=2090-682X|pmc=3437272|pmid=22970398}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

Future recommendations would be to employ resources to research the foundations of Islamic psychiatry in the country, and to observe the rituals employed and their effects on patients. Studies have found that Islamic prayer can be an effective means of &quot;support and coping&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;:15&quot; /&gt;. Seven world-wide case studies using Islamic-based psychotherapy on patients, consisting of religious rituals such as scriptural reading from the [[w:Quran|Quran]], teaching of fundamental Islamic concepts (such as ''[[w:Tawakkul|tawakkul]]''), and active implementation of contemplation (''[[w:Tadabbur|tadabbur]]''), have reported positive effects in decreasing cognitive and emotional symptoms associated with &quot;religious, obsessive-compulsive disorder, depression, agoraphobia, generalized anxiety disorder, grief, and substance use disorder.”&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Kurhade|first=Chhaya Shantaram|last2=Jagannathan|first2=Aarti|last3=Varambally|first3=Shivarama|last4=Shivanna|first4=Sushrutha|date=2022-01|title=Religion-based interventions for mental health disorders: A systematic review|url=https://journals.lww.com/10.4103/ijoyppp.ijoyppp_14_21|journal=Journal of Applied Consciousness Studies|language=en|volume=10|issue=1|pages=20–33|doi=10.4103/ijoyppp.ijoyppp_14_21|issn=2949-6993}}&lt;/ref&gt; Additionally, a community-based study of elderly patients in Bangalore, India receiving Islamic-based psychotherapy observed decreased exhibitions of sleep disorders, eating disorders, and emotional distress&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Hafeez|first=Nimin|last2=Sanjay|first2=Thittamaranahalli Varadappa|last3=Puthussery|first3=Yannick Poulose|last4=Madhusudan|first4=Muralidhar|last5=Kariyappa|first5=Poornima Muddaiah|last6=Kulkarni|first6=Sridevi|last7=Raj|first7=Lavanya|date=2023-12-31|title=Spiritual practices among elderly, prevalence, pattern and associated factors: a community-based study from rural Bengaluru, India|url=https://jccpsl.sljol.info/articles/10.4038/jccpsl.v29i4.8610|journal=Journal of the College of Community Physicians of Sri Lanka|language=en|volume=29|issue=4|doi=10.4038/jccpsl.v29i4.8610|issn=1391-3174}}&lt;/ref&gt;. 

=== Hinduism ===
Despite Hindus being 12.6% of the population of Sri Lanka, the research on Hinduism-based therapy in the country is limited. Ayurvedic medicine, a form of medicine originating from ancient India, predominated the Sri Lankan medical landscape for over 2,000 years and even had a symbiotic relationship with Sinhalese medicine, which also played a significant and influential role in the country's medical framework&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Udayanga|first=Samitha|date=2021-06-30|title=Cultural understanding of ‘spiritual well-being’ and ‘psychological well-being’ among Sinhalese Buddhists in Sri Lanka|url=https://sljss.sljol.info/article/10.4038/sljss.v44i1.7990/|journal=Sri Lanka Journal of Social Sciences|volume=44|issue=1|pages=33|doi=10.4038/sljss.v44i1.7990|issn=2478-1169}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Despite its historical dominance, Ayurvedic medicine has been challenged against modern evidence-based medical standards&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://philarchive.org/rec/DOMAAT|title=Ayurveda: Ancient Tradition or Pseudoscientific Practice? A Philosophical Inquiry|last=Dominic|first=Shubham K.}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

=== Comparative synthesis ===
Taking an overarching review of the role of religion in Sri Lanka, methods to improve mental well-being are practiced by adherents of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity. These methods are practiced through karma, tawakkul, hope, and humility. Additionally, these practices are implemented in traditionally-oriented mental health care, which has been reported to be preferred over psychiatric care at times. These rituals practiced across these religions indicate a common theme of psychologically integrated aspects of well-being. Interpretation of trauma is a central use in religion, with religious principles, such as karma and ''tawakkul'', serving as psychologically analogous mechanisms during times of distress.  

In terms of methodological comparisons to the studies described, qualitative interviews have documented Buddhist practices and principles, like Bodhipuja and the belief in karma, in response to traumatic events, while case studies found religious practices by other religious groups, such as a Muslim patient reading Islamic scripture and observing prayer to reduce emotional distress. Peer-reviewed sources have documented Catholic practices and principles, such as ''Lectio Divina'' and unconditional positive regard, in improving mindfulness and emotional regulation. The paper acknowledges limitations in the evaluation of certain findings, such as in Islam and Hinduism. These shortcomings, however, are a reflection of the existing literature and its deficiencies. Empirical findings indicate mental health practices are complex and are multifaceted in their effects. 

Evidently, religion serves a parallel role to psychiatric services in improving mental health. Despite its perceived benefits, the findings surrounding religions' role in mental health suffer from conflicting, and sometimes contradictory, results. Additionally, a disproportionate amount of empirical findings seem to be Buddhist-predominant, while other religions are underrepresented in the research. Regarding research barriers, the methodological approaches implemented to study the practices of religious followers vary, though much of the research was brought from qualitative or case-based studies, impeding generalizability. Another noteworthy issue is that many studies do not utilize standardized, psychiatric measures.

== Future Outlook ==
'''→''' '''[[User:Atcovi/sandbox]]'''

Despite significant changes to the mental health environment in Sri Lanka, the current legal framework shaping mental health in the country has not been updated since 1956. A Cambridge University Press article detailed many limitations of the Mental Disease Ordinance of 1956, including discrepancies between the legal provisions of involuntary admissions and modern practices, potential exposure to trauma through extra-legal detentions of the mentally ill, and an absence of legal guidelines addressing the restraint of violent patients (https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-international/article/why-are-we-still-living-in-the-past-sri-lanka-needs-urgent-and-timely-reforms-of-its-archaic-mental-health-laws/B18B03DC962CC6F09BC6D7877E390EE4). Participants from Sri Lanka reported in a comparative legislative questionnaire that they felt the mental health laws were &quot;outdated&quot; and descriptions of clinical roles remained ambiguous (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13033-019-0322-7). A mental health legislation, drafted in 2007, includes provisions for human rights, but due to &quot;bureaucratic processes&quot; and a &quot;lack of consensus&quot;, an agreement has not been reached for the legislation to be accepted and implemented.

These limitations pose challenges to the standardization of patient admissions for mental healthcare and may impact the rights of detained patients. Detained patients may have their human rights violated with a lack of an up-to-date legal framework, impeding the identification of such violations. Additionally, with the lack of clarity on clinical roles, clinical responsibilities may not be routinely recognized and observed, leading to role confusion and potential legal ramifications.

Based on these limitations...

=== Criticism of the Mental Disease Ordinance of 1956 ===
&lt;ref name=&quot;:6&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Hapangama|first=Aruni|last2=Mendis|first2=Jayan|last3=Kuruppuarachchi|first3=K. a. L. A.|date=2023-02|title=Why are we still living in the past? Sri Lanka needs urgent and timely reforms of its archaic mental health laws|url=https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-international/article/why-are-we-still-living-in-the-past-sri-lanka-needs-urgent-and-timely-reforms-of-its-archaic-mental-health-laws/B18B03DC962CC6F09BC6D7877E390EE4|journal=BJPsych International|language=en|volume=20|issue=1|pages=4–6|doi=10.1192/bji.2022.26|issn=2056-4740|pmc=9909436|pmid=36812028}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Dey|first=Sangeeta|last2=Mellsop|first2=Graham|last3=Diesfeld|first3=Kate|last4=Dharmawardene|first4=Vajira|last5=Mendis|first5=Susitha|last6=Chaudhuri|first6=Sreemanti|last7=Deb|first7=Aniruddha|last8=Huq|first8=Nafisa|last9=Ahmed|first9=Helal Uddin|date=2019-10-24|title=Comparing legislation for involuntary admission and treatment of mental illness in four South Asian countries|url=https://ijmhs.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13033-019-0322-7|journal=International Journal of Mental Health Systems|volume=13|issue=1|pages=67|doi=10.1186/s13033-019-0322-7|issn=1752-4458|pmc=6813093|pmid=31666805}}&lt;/ref&gt;

=== Expansion of services for women facing domestic violence ===
&lt;ref name=&quot;:8&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Augustyniak|first=Nadia|date=2025-06-01|title=Public mental healthcare and economic vulnerability in Sri Lanka|url=https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S2666560324000926|journal=SSM - Mental Health|volume=7|pages=100387|doi=10.1016/j.ssmmh.2024.100387|issn=2666-5603}}&lt;/ref&gt; (last paragraph before 4.2; see discussion + conclusion as well)

==Additional information==

===Acknowledgements===
Any people, organisations, or funding sources that you would like to thank.

===Competing interests===
No competing interests.

===Ethics statement===
An ethics statement, if appropriate, on any animal or human research performed should be included here or in the methods section.

==References==
{{reflist|35em}}

[[Category:Mental health]]
[[Category:Sri Lanka]]</text>
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    <title>Wikiversity talk:Artificial intelligence</title>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Sj</username>
        <id>2660</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Mandatory link to chatbot conversation? */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="38808" sha1="f1ygbr4yovsnv8eonfyrcgpr01dmyne" xml:space="preserve">== My POV ==

*I would remove &quot;The contributor should be an expert on the topic&quot;, because Wikiversity is not about authorities and we are not able to check weather certain person contributing LLM-created text is an expert or not.
*This is not applicable to all situations, when using LLM: &quot;where citations are included.&quot; Sometimes you generate wery short overviews or general things.
[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:41, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
: In my notes, I have a proposal to restrict the use of GenAI even more; it is much more of a threat than an opportunity for the English Wikiversity.
: In the mean time, requiring that a contributor be an expert or at least know what he is writing about is a very good thing, from my perspective. It is not true that we have no way of tentatively determining whether someone is an expert or not: we can ask for self-disclosure and we can test knowledge. And he who does not want to be tested should not be inserting GenAI into mainspace. --[[User:Dan Polansky|Dan Polansky]] ([[User talk:Dan Polansky|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dan Polansky|contribs]]) 07:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
::But the obsession with expertise closes down an open Wikiversity. Nupedia was expert and failed, Wikipedia was open and succeeded. Why should Wikiversity go the way of Nupedia? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 16:13, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with Juandev here, although in theory the content added by folks on Wikiversity should be coming from a place of expertise, I also understood one of the missions of wikiversity to be a place where expertise can be actively developed through the act of editing by editors. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:11, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
:I think generative AI should be used as a tool. If you are copying the text word for word, the text might not be correct. If you are interested in a particular topic, feel free to use GenAI, but maybe check the facts before using it and provide the link to the conversation. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 11:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
::In that case, some kind of scale should be introduced that a human editor would use to indicate how much LLM was used. From full text created entirely by a chatbot (which I don't think is a good idea, because it may contain errors in the form of hallucinations and at the same time takes away the authorship from the given LLM). To text proofreading and only minor interventions by artificial intelligence. @[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|RailwayEnthusiast2025]] [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:36, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

== A proposed caveat on when they are used ==

If we allow generative AI usage, I think we should require disclosure of what tool was used, when, and which prompt(s) it was given. Understanding not only that it was used but how is crucial, plus, since these tools change rapidly, knowing the time/date is also key for understanding what it was likely processing and how when it generated the output. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:47, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

:Thats a good point. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 16:14, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
:I agree that knowing how users are using AI may be a good data for Wikiversity community to learn how AI is used, but I would not overcomplicate the policy. So what about to start this with optional values for {{tl|AI-generated}} tempate? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 08:41, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

== Different uses of AI ==

I am just pointing out that AI is not just used to generate text, which could be copy paste to Wikiversity. One may use AI to improve their grammar (for example with the use of Grammarly), other one may use GPT to create wiki tabs from CSV. So if the proposed policy is using wide title Artifical inteligence, I would consider all use cases and decide how to deal with them. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:38, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

: I believe that if the changes made by an AI in the authoring process falls into the definition of a &quot;minor edit&quot; (borrowing the definitions of [[:w:WP:MINOR]]), the resulting content should not count as &quot;AI-generated&quot;. So definitely not for the table thing. Grammar... depends on how extensive the change is (possibly because I dislike Grammarly; I may be quite biased here). --[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Template:AI-generated]] ==

Discussion on indication of a resource being AI-generated. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:55, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

== Confirm AI use is okay ==

Before I continue adding to the the Law School 101 course I started, I want to make sure that it's consistent with the AI policy. I'm seeing some conflicting opinions here that may not be as nuanced as they should be. 

I would not have decided to share the Law School 101 course from an LLM if I didn't feel it was uber good, completely missing in public access, and sorely needed to be available to the public.

I am 100% ok with having an AI disclaimer on the front page of the course, but I'm not going to go and add it to each page with the prompt on each page. That's stupid. Some prompts were &quot;Next class&quot;.

If I went through the course, I'm an expert on the topic of the course. Seriously, though, expertise is an extremely stretchable concept that cannot be used as a whip to disqualify great courses. A person may have had years of education, high IQ, for example. And the topic itself may be at the level of general knowledge where the value of expertise on the topic may much less relevant to the quality of material that the course creator sees in the content. 

And we're moving away from an era when LLMs were producing errors. Of course, all content from an LLM must be vetted, and of course expert opinions on class content are welcome, but to preclude excellent course content from being made public would detract from the mission of Wikiversity.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 07:11, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

== Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI ==

=== Adapting to New Technologies ===
I am old enough to have obtained my BSEE degree in 1972, before the general availability of pocket electronic calculators. I laboriously used a slide rule and pencil and paper for those hundreds of calculations. Since then, I have witnessed the introduction of pocket calculators, scientific calculators, cassette recorders, video recorders, CDs, DVDs, personal computers, spreadsheets, word processors, spell checkers, online dictionaries and thesauruses, cell phones, GPS, the Internet, search engines, grammar checkers, Nanny cams, cloud storage, Napster, streaming, smart phones, Wolfram Alpha, homework assistants, tablets, Wikimedia projects, MOOCs, videoconferencing, Crypto currency, and most recently AI large language models.

Each of these technologies has required us to adapt. We had to be clear about our needs and goals. These goals might include learning, teaching, getting the right answer, efficiency, profit, ease of use, entertainment, sharing, collaboration, safety, intellectual property rights, and no doubt other concerns. 

Technology is inherently morally neutral. A hammer can be used to build a house or to bludgeon someone. How we decide to use technology is our choice, not the destiny of the technology. 

=== Guiding Principles and Lessons Learned ===
It is wise to avoid overreacting or underreacting. 

It is wise to avoid “[[wikipedia:One-drop_rule|one drop rules]]” that indiscriminately, and unnecessarily, prejudice the use of emerging technologies.

It is wise to avoid any form of “[[wikipedia:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]” that causes unwarranted panic, anxiety, unfounded accusations, and an unfounded search for the guilty. Furthermore, unduly highlighting the use of AI within Wikiversity is a form of [[wikipedia:Ad_hominem|Ad hominem]] attack—attacking the source rather than the argument or resulting text. Doing so pejoratively stains the material, and the authors, with a form of [[wikipedia:The_Scarlet_Letter|scarlet letter]]. 

It is useful to understand and acknowledge the nuances of the many ways that the new technology can be used. Existing LLM’s can be used to:

1)     Proofread copy,

2)     As a thesaurus or to suggest a variety of word choices,

3)     To extend a list of items sharing various characteristics,

4)     To assist in brainstorming, 

5)     To write introductory, summary, or clarifying text.

6)     To suggest alternative wording or rewriting text,

7)     To modify the tone of the text,

8)     To generate a list of questions,

9)     As a research tool to identify likely sources of new information,

10)  To demonstrate the limits and capabilities of the technology, and

11)  in many more ways. 

These are very different uses of the technology, and it is misleading to place them into a single category.

=== Addressing Wikiversity goals. ===
Wikiversity provides “learning resources” freely available to the users. Editors have a responsibility to follow established [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity Policies]].  

Content [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|must be verifiable]]. While professors have the liberty to profess, ''accurate propositional statements'' typically provide more useful learning resources than do false or misleading propositional statements. As described above, text generated or assisted by an LLM often does not include propositional statements subject to verification. Both people and LLMs sometimes hallucinate (and bloviate) and are otherwise fallible, and therefore what is relevant is the ''accuracy of the propositional statements'', regardless of the source. 

If the editor takes sufficient care and has the expertise to verify the accuracy of the propositional statements made, the origin of those statements is irrelevant, as long as they are properly cited.

Because the source of verified and accurate propositional statements is irrelevant, marking, and especially obtrusive or pejorative marking, of AI generated content is unnecessary. 

Because I recognize that there may be good reasons to collect AI generated materials into a category, I recommend the “AI Generated” template be redesigned to be similar to the “[[:Category:Essays|Essay” category tag]]. This would be a small tag appearing along the right-hand margin of the page. The tag could usefully include a parameter identify the mode of the AI used, as suggested above. 

I hope these ideas are carefully considered as we continue to collaborate in adapting to this new and valuable technology. I also call for a moratorium on defacing existing materials until a consensus policy is adopted. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:45, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:Thanks for your ideas. I didn't realize this was a draft policy discussion. In this case, please take a look at this AI-generated and human-vetted course &quot;[[Law School 101]].&quot; It is so superb. I have taken it in its entirety, and I believe it's a top-notch learning resource for every adult. It's also pure joy to go through and sets the bar high.
:And I don't see anything online that would accomplish something remotely similar. 95% of undergraduates graduate having no clue what Law is all about, all while it affects every facet of our lives every day. 
:I think this should be a class in colleges, and the Intro part should even be offered in high schools (imagine the thrill of going through the entire one year of law school in ten classes?). I think it's the biggest, sorest gap in core education these days, and it's unclear why the legal professionals are MIA and not scrambling to fill this screaming void.
:Specifically regarding AI use - this debate must not be out of context. And the context is that access to education must not be stifled and veiled behind arbitrary exclusionary barriers.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 10:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::I just note that this policy draft is not against AI generated content @[[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]]. Thats why nobode disputed your previous post and your reflection was build in to the proposal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:52, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Cool. I understand this is an extremely complex topic on many levels.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 10:56, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
:You said &quot;If the editor takes sufficient care&quot;. But some editors does not take sufficient care. Some editor say its not a policy I dont mind. Thats why this policy is proposed that everbody do that and co-create quality resource on Wikiversity.
:You talk about some embarrassment that a source is marked as LLM-generated, but this rule requires you to mark it yourself and if you don't mark it, we can only suggest it to you. So why rebel against such a practice? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

== Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy ==

As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.

The stakeholders are:

# The users,
# The source providers, and
# The editors

There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.

The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 

As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].

To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.

Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 

The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:

=== Recommended Policy statement: ===

* Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
* Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
* Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred.

[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:58, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:Just note, that [[Wikiversity:Cite sources]] is not a policy. You can read it on the top of the page, its a ''proposed policy''. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
:I would say, that the actual text is better then your first two proposed statements, because:
:#Your proposal is less clear to me, so it might be less clear to others - we need policies which are easy to understand. For example, the course structure generated in LLM is not, in my opinion, a ''propositional statement'', but the rule should still cover such a case.
:#Your proposal is missing the option, when references are outputed by the LLM
:Templates that indicate AI-generated content should be mandatory, as they allow you to create statistics about AI-generated content. This is good for creating tools or other policies that work with AI-generated content, for example. It is also useful for patrolling users to be able to return to AI-assisted pages when checking. 
:Another thing is that you don't specify which specific templates to use. If you don't specify, everyone will use whatever templates they want and it will lead to chaos. Moreover, who is to determine that the templates are ''not unduly distracting or alarming''? As I wrote above, Wikiversity's policy should be clear. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

== Publicly available link - risk of link-rot? ==

Is there a risk that the statement:

''&lt;big&gt;The origin of the text must be clearly indicated in the edit summary and ideally include a publicly available link to the chatbot conversation&lt;/big&gt;''

may be problematic in the future if the links go bad (see [[wikipedia:Link_rot|link rot]])? Does the internet archive regularly comb the link of chatbot conversations? [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:19, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:IanVG|IanVG]] There may well be link rot over time but linking to the conversation is still better than not linking so that contributions and their sources are reviewable at least until the link does rot -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:48, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

== Mandatory link to chatbot conversation? ==


I'm not sure I'm a fan of (in bold) from the first acceptability requirement that states:&lt;blockquote&gt;The origin of the text must be clearly indicated in the edit summary and '''ideally include''' a publicly available link to the chatbot conversation&lt;/blockquote&gt;Why isn't the requirement strict? Why don't we make the link to the chat mandatory? [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:24, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:IanVG|IanVG]] linking to the chat could be made mandatory (and would be better scholarship) but not all LLMs provide a way to publicly link to chats, so such a policy would restrict what AI tools could be used -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:45, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::In true &quot;conversation&quot; cases a pastebin service such as https://paste.toolforge.org/ may be usable. As long as the text is legible as a transcript of the conversation it would be good for scholarship. Would not be usable for cases where AI is used as an &quot;auto-complete&quot; tool like GitHub copilot or Claude Code working on text file containing the wikitext source code though. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:27, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:::Agree. I've changed &quot;where available&quot; to &quot;(or a copy of the transcript)&quot;. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Lets keep it simple. Do we really need that link. Patrole is not able to controll all recent changes, who will be patrolling this? I would '''leave it as it is or on request'''. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 09:37, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
::Patrol can focus on the content itself, not the link. The link is like providing a source code to some media on Commons: good for knowing how it's made and for when modifications are needed. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:25, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I'd love to have an on-wiki LLM that we can tweak to do what we want here: which is roughly a condensed summary of the prompts and transcript leading up to the final output.  Often the full transcript includes many rounds of iteration and modification, and it will be many times longer than the final output including duplication of that output itself.  (this is the 'default' downloadable transcript where one is available)
:::I think the right request should be &quot;prompt and model&quot; and &quot;link to transcript where possible&quot; to avoid the duplication of the output. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 18:34, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Superseding the first policy proposal ==

Because the first policy proposal would distract users without due cause;

Because the first policy proposal would burden editors without due cause;

Because the first policy proposal includes elements that are arbitrarily chosen and not derived from stakeholder benefits;

Because great designs are as simple as possible and no simpler;

Because the first policy proposal has failed to attract proponents;

Because the stated objections to the second policy proposal are based on unsound arguments, [[wikipedia:Straw_man|straw men]], speculation, and [[wikipedia:Ad_hominem|ad hominem]] attacks;

I have superseded the first policy proposal text with the second policy proposal text. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 18:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

:Because we are in the process of improving the proposed policy through consensus, I suggest reverting these wholesale changes and working to iteratively improve it. You have strong opinions and some useful ideas; your input is valued. I appreciate [[Wikiversity:Be bold|being bold]], but community consensus is more likely to be achieved through gradual, collaborative iteration. Alternatively, consider forking the proposal and then the community can evolve two versions and then decide on the preferred approach. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:09, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for these comments and your moderating voice. How do I “fork the proposal”? I would like to present alternative policy text with equal visibility to the legacy policy proposal text so that there can be an informed and skillful dialogue leading toward a strong consensus.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:27, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::To &quot;fork&quot;, create a target page e.g., [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence 2]] e.g., by:
:::# Manual fork (copy and paste) - but loses edit history
:::# Export/import fork (use [[Special:Export]] and [[Wikiversity:Import]] to copy an original page and retain its edit history) - needs admin rights for import
:::# Or create an alternative policy proposal by starting from scratch
:::See also [[Wikiversity:Productive forking and tailoring is encouraged]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 01:23, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:None of these rationales are based on evidence and/or just completely false (ex, &quot;the first policy proposal has failed to attract proponents&quot; when multiple people have supported the policy as is on the Colloquium). I've removed your edit and I ask you not to do that again. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 12:03, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::You are obviously passionate about this issue, and we have differing points of view. Perhaps we can [[Transcending Conflict|transcend conflict]] and find [[Finding Common Ground|common ground]]. I suggest you develop a [[Creating Wikiversity Courses|Wikiversity course]] called something like “Uses and Abuses of Artificial Intelligence.” This will provide all of us with a well-considered basis for developing a policy.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Common ground sounds great. I've edited the current (original) draft a little to emphasise adoption of good scholarly practice (e.g., transparency) above specific requirements but also softened the requirement for the AI template to be displayed only for pages with a significant amount of AI-generated material. Hopefully this helps at least somewhat to address some of Lee's concerns. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:54, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

== The Single Mandated Template Needs to Become More Flexible ==

The presently proposed policy mandates the use of a single AI-Generated template for a wide range of AI uses. The scope of the policy identifies a broad range of AI usage, from grammar checkers to generation of extensive text passages. These various uses bear little or no similarity from the user’s perspective. More flexibility, more subtlety, more nuance is needed. I recommend adding parameters to the single mandated template to identify the nature of the AI usage, or providing a family of templates that editors can choose from to more accurately communicate the variety of AI used.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:54, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be better to have one template with parameters. As I previously mentioned more templates would create more mess from my perspective. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:11, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, template parameters could work well. One parameter could allow a text note to explain how gen-AI was used. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 00:52, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:This can probably be done technically. But now I realized that there may be a problem with the correct filling if several people edit one page and use different AI tools. There it is more technically feasible, respectively it may be difficult for the user to fill in these parameters and the template itself, or templates, may take up unnecessary space. Therefore, I think that the template can offer these variants, but it would be better if their filling was optional. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:09, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== Undue Attention and Distraction ==

Attention is our most precious resource, and it must be directed wisely. The presently mandated template places a large banner at the top of each page, as if use of AI is the most important attribute of the learning resource that the user must direct attention to and be concerned with. However, we are acclimating to the use of AI, much as we have acclimated to the use of pocket electronic calculators and the many other innovative technologies that have arisen over the past several decades. The AI notification must become less distracting. I suggest generating a smaller box that appears in the right-had margin like that produced by the ''essay''template. This will better align the attention attracted by the template to the attention it merits.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:54, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Sounds like a good idea. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:14, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:I've [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAI-generated&amp;diff=2804949&amp;oldid=2802022 simplified] the {{tl|AI-generated}} message.
:Note that this Wikiversity template is minimalistic compared to sister project equivalents e.g.,
:* [[Template:AI-generated|Template:AI-generated]] (Wikibooks)
:* [[Template:AI-generated|Template:AI-generated]] (Wikipedia)
:-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:23, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, this could be, see: [[User:Juandev/T/QA AI contribution]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== What problem is being addressed? ==

I recommend we be clear and explicit about the problem, real or perceived, that this policy is intended to address. What are the unmet needs of the users? What are the unmet needs of the editors that need to be addressed by such a policy? We can only rationally evaluate alternative polices in the context of know user and editor needs. Until we understand the users’ needs, and the editors’ needs it is premature to propose a policy.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:55, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:'''The basic problem we are solving here is the speed of generating such content.'''
:Qualitatively, texts created with the help of artificial intelligence are equal to texts without the use of AI. There is a range of contributions by quality: high-quality texts, average, and bad ones.
:Methods developed for text control, which were developed on Wikimedia projects, can fail in the case of quickly generated text in that the project will be overwhelmed with such content very quickly that some methods of control will fail and then the quality of the project will decrease.
:That is, we are looking for new solutions to prevent this and one of such solutions is to
:#''remind editors to check the LLM output'',
:#''notify others that the content was created using AI''.
:The control methods used so far are based on creating categories of edits. However, for non-AI contributions categories are recognizable (or can be recognized by a computer program), for AI contributions, I am not aware of a recognition method, so I think it is appropriate for the creator to '''voluntarily report''' AI was used. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:38, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
::Why is increased production speed a problem?
::There is no strong link between production speed and product quality. Electronic calculators and electronic spreadsheet increase both speed and accuracy. Word processors, spell checkers, grammar checkers, on-line dictionaries and thesauruses also increase speed and accuracy. Large Language Models can be used and abused in a wide variety of ways. Certainly, using a LLM to proofread copy, suggest alternative word choice, suggesting rewrites for an awkward sentence and other uses increase the quality of the final product. 
::Although the basic problem is stated as “speed of generation” perhaps the problem to be addressed is the quality of the resulting text.
::The quality of Wikiversity learning resources depends on many factors including curriculum design, topic choice, pedagogical approach, vocabulary choice, prerequisite assumptions, and of course, the factual accuracy of propositional sentences. LLM use pertains to only a fraction of these considerations. Do we have reliable evidence that when LLM’s are used skillfully they are less accurate than material written by the typical Wikiversity editor? 
::Existing Wikiversity policies address the accuracy of the content contributed. As we propose development of AI-specific policies, we need to be clearer and more accurate regarding the problem we are addressing. We need to be more parsimonious in developing policy to address actual problems.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 20:08, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] So the problem is still speed. You say, let's solve the problem when it occurs, but here it may happen that when the problem occurs, we will no longer be able to solve it, because we will be flooded with problems and we will not know where they are in that volume. That means, you find one problem in one page and youll figure out its in all pages, but you cannot determine which ones are thos pages. In other words, if the patrol team is now weakened, then it will be totally paralyzed when LLM texts or problems are arose – it will have many times more work than if the text created by LLM was marked and categorized. And secondly, the problem that LLM brings may not be revealed for a very long time. At the same time, it has long been known that LLM hallucinates and, for example, in GPT version 5, the hallucinations have increased slightly compared to version 4o.
:::In other words, I say let's mark and categorize pages with a significant LLM contribution. The marking informs the reader who the author is (correct marking of authorship is the gold standard in Western culture) and let's categorize them so that in the event of a problem we are able to catch the problem. (text created with GT, proofreading human) [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:53, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] Help me understand the phrase &quot;patrol team&quot;. Thanks. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:53, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::See [[:w:Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol]] @[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]. Even though we don't have an informative page about this on Wikiversity, it actually naturally exists on all projects. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 11:55, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, this provides a valuable service. I was not aware how organized this work is. Do patrol team members coordinate, distributing the work to ensure coverage with minimal duplication? Do they leave some marker (“Kilroy was here”) to inform the original editor and subsequent patrol team members that any particular page was scanned?  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 13:33, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:Agree with @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] that the basic problem to tackle is to have some sort of control/filter over excessive, low-quality gen-AI content being contributed in a way that would diminish rather than enhance the educational value of this project.
:In the first phase, we've just waited to see what happens. And recently there have been some instructive instances of low-quality gen-AI content so that has helped inform our ideas as have the approaches taken by other sister projects.
:I think it is good scholarly practice to inform readers about the genesis of text. Wiki does this typically very well through edit summaries. So, this should ideally be used to communicate and show specific gen-AI chat sources.
:And a gen-AI info box allows pages with significant gen-AI content to be flagged to readers and categorised. 
:Above all, for me, this is about intellectual honesty. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 00:48, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

== Tangential: style ==

IMHO the biggest issue with &quot;AI-generated content&quot; is the long-winded, low-information-density writing style it defaults to, complete with unnecessary use of lists over prose and boldening of text. The thing is that it does not take an AI to write like that -- humans who think lazily do many of the same things, especially when influenced by the AI writing-style in everyday conversations. Humans write text full of hot air all the time, complete with references that they did not read. Every fault we have seen in an AI has an analogue in some group of academic humans.

While tagging AI-generated content will aid in the detection of mass-manufactured hot air, it will not address the &quot;artisanal&quot; hot air lovingly typed by some human fingers. The [[WV:MOS]] should be expanded to cover some of these issues. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree. IMHO, a lot of human writing could be improved by running it through a language model.
:Feel free to suggest MOS improvements: [[Wikiversity talk:Manual of Style]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:29, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Wikiversity is not an encyclopedia, nor a repository of professional texts, although we also store professional texts here. I wonder if blank pages or lengthy narration are not more a methodology within a certain course. In short, Wikiversity cannot be judged through the lens of Wikipedia. Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikibooks and other content focus projects can be judged through the lens of Wikipedia, but I find it debatable for Wikiversity @[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]].
:Otherwise, for ordinary inflated or less quality text, there are control mechanisms such as [[:w:Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol|patrol]] and monitoring of watchlist, which could also be applied to text created by artificial intelligence. The problem with AI texts, however, is the speed of creation, so I would be in favor of adopting this special policy that would allow such text to be categorized. Ones its categorized, it could be easily checked. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 12:10, 17 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f1ygbr4yovsnv8eonfyrcgpr01dmyne</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807346</id>
      <parentid>2807269</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T08:24:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* My POV */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>2807346</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="39903" sha1="g48wav40zfei7q1v8k4vx12ts9pxurr" xml:space="preserve">== My POV ==

*I would remove &quot;The contributor should be an expert on the topic&quot;, because Wikiversity is not about authorities and we are not able to check weather certain person contributing LLM-created text is an expert or not.
*This is not applicable to all situations, when using LLM: &quot;where citations are included.&quot; Sometimes you generate wery short overviews or general things.
[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:41, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
: In my notes, I have a proposal to restrict the use of GenAI even more; it is much more of a threat than an opportunity for the English Wikiversity.
: In the mean time, requiring that a contributor be an expert or at least know what he is writing about is a very good thing, from my perspective. It is not true that we have no way of tentatively determining whether someone is an expert or not: we can ask for self-disclosure and we can test knowledge. And he who does not want to be tested should not be inserting GenAI into mainspace. --[[User:Dan Polansky|Dan Polansky]] ([[User talk:Dan Polansky|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dan Polansky|contribs]]) 07:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
::But the obsession with expertise closes down an open Wikiversity. Nupedia was expert and failed, Wikipedia was open and succeeded. Why should Wikiversity go the way of Nupedia? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 16:13, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with Juandev here, although in theory the content added by folks on Wikiversity should be coming from a place of expertise, I also understood one of the missions of wikiversity to be a place where expertise can be actively developed through the act of editing by editors. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:11, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Could this be like that we are letting people make their own mistakes, learn from their own mistakes(if they can) and then only intervene if the project becomes dormant/'paused' or if the contributor is asking for help from us for an extended period of time? Otherwise if we didn't let the users/contributors make mistakes they might not learn from them.
:::I feel like that is how my personal experience has been so far. I got help when I asked for it, otherwise I'm free to develop my draft as well as I can while making mistakes and hopefully learning from them. I guess exceptions for 'intervention' is when a user publishes content with red flags, and I don't know if my mention of Taylor Swift is one but I also need to learn sooner or later who to contact and for what reason. I feel like I'm having a Wikiversity journey but also a personal journey at the same time with and without &quot;AI Mode&quot; by Google and other providers. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 08:24, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:I think generative AI should be used as a tool. If you are copying the text word for word, the text might not be correct. If you are interested in a particular topic, feel free to use GenAI, but maybe check the facts before using it and provide the link to the conversation. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 11:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
::In that case, some kind of scale should be introduced that a human editor would use to indicate how much LLM was used. From full text created entirely by a chatbot (which I don't think is a good idea, because it may contain errors in the form of hallucinations and at the same time takes away the authorship from the given LLM). To text proofreading and only minor interventions by artificial intelligence. @[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|RailwayEnthusiast2025]] [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:36, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

== A proposed caveat on when they are used ==

If we allow generative AI usage, I think we should require disclosure of what tool was used, when, and which prompt(s) it was given. Understanding not only that it was used but how is crucial, plus, since these tools change rapidly, knowing the time/date is also key for understanding what it was likely processing and how when it generated the output. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:47, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

:Thats a good point. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 16:14, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
:I agree that knowing how users are using AI may be a good data for Wikiversity community to learn how AI is used, but I would not overcomplicate the policy. So what about to start this with optional values for {{tl|AI-generated}} tempate? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 08:41, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

== Different uses of AI ==

I am just pointing out that AI is not just used to generate text, which could be copy paste to Wikiversity. One may use AI to improve their grammar (for example with the use of Grammarly), other one may use GPT to create wiki tabs from CSV. So if the proposed policy is using wide title Artifical inteligence, I would consider all use cases and decide how to deal with them. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:38, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

: I believe that if the changes made by an AI in the authoring process falls into the definition of a &quot;minor edit&quot; (borrowing the definitions of [[:w:WP:MINOR]]), the resulting content should not count as &quot;AI-generated&quot;. So definitely not for the table thing. Grammar... depends on how extensive the change is (possibly because I dislike Grammarly; I may be quite biased here). --[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Template:AI-generated]] ==

Discussion on indication of a resource being AI-generated. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:55, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

== Confirm AI use is okay ==

Before I continue adding to the the Law School 101 course I started, I want to make sure that it's consistent with the AI policy. I'm seeing some conflicting opinions here that may not be as nuanced as they should be. 

I would not have decided to share the Law School 101 course from an LLM if I didn't feel it was uber good, completely missing in public access, and sorely needed to be available to the public.

I am 100% ok with having an AI disclaimer on the front page of the course, but I'm not going to go and add it to each page with the prompt on each page. That's stupid. Some prompts were &quot;Next class&quot;.

If I went through the course, I'm an expert on the topic of the course. Seriously, though, expertise is an extremely stretchable concept that cannot be used as a whip to disqualify great courses. A person may have had years of education, high IQ, for example. And the topic itself may be at the level of general knowledge where the value of expertise on the topic may much less relevant to the quality of material that the course creator sees in the content. 

And we're moving away from an era when LLMs were producing errors. Of course, all content from an LLM must be vetted, and of course expert opinions on class content are welcome, but to preclude excellent course content from being made public would detract from the mission of Wikiversity.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 07:11, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

== Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI ==

=== Adapting to New Technologies ===
I am old enough to have obtained my BSEE degree in 1972, before the general availability of pocket electronic calculators. I laboriously used a slide rule and pencil and paper for those hundreds of calculations. Since then, I have witnessed the introduction of pocket calculators, scientific calculators, cassette recorders, video recorders, CDs, DVDs, personal computers, spreadsheets, word processors, spell checkers, online dictionaries and thesauruses, cell phones, GPS, the Internet, search engines, grammar checkers, Nanny cams, cloud storage, Napster, streaming, smart phones, Wolfram Alpha, homework assistants, tablets, Wikimedia projects, MOOCs, videoconferencing, Crypto currency, and most recently AI large language models.

Each of these technologies has required us to adapt. We had to be clear about our needs and goals. These goals might include learning, teaching, getting the right answer, efficiency, profit, ease of use, entertainment, sharing, collaboration, safety, intellectual property rights, and no doubt other concerns. 

Technology is inherently morally neutral. A hammer can be used to build a house or to bludgeon someone. How we decide to use technology is our choice, not the destiny of the technology. 

=== Guiding Principles and Lessons Learned ===
It is wise to avoid overreacting or underreacting. 

It is wise to avoid “[[wikipedia:One-drop_rule|one drop rules]]” that indiscriminately, and unnecessarily, prejudice the use of emerging technologies.

It is wise to avoid any form of “[[wikipedia:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]” that causes unwarranted panic, anxiety, unfounded accusations, and an unfounded search for the guilty. Furthermore, unduly highlighting the use of AI within Wikiversity is a form of [[wikipedia:Ad_hominem|Ad hominem]] attack—attacking the source rather than the argument or resulting text. Doing so pejoratively stains the material, and the authors, with a form of [[wikipedia:The_Scarlet_Letter|scarlet letter]]. 

It is useful to understand and acknowledge the nuances of the many ways that the new technology can be used. Existing LLM’s can be used to:

1)     Proofread copy,

2)     As a thesaurus or to suggest a variety of word choices,

3)     To extend a list of items sharing various characteristics,

4)     To assist in brainstorming, 

5)     To write introductory, summary, or clarifying text.

6)     To suggest alternative wording or rewriting text,

7)     To modify the tone of the text,

8)     To generate a list of questions,

9)     As a research tool to identify likely sources of new information,

10)  To demonstrate the limits and capabilities of the technology, and

11)  in many more ways. 

These are very different uses of the technology, and it is misleading to place them into a single category.

=== Addressing Wikiversity goals. ===
Wikiversity provides “learning resources” freely available to the users. Editors have a responsibility to follow established [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity Policies]].  

Content [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|must be verifiable]]. While professors have the liberty to profess, ''accurate propositional statements'' typically provide more useful learning resources than do false or misleading propositional statements. As described above, text generated or assisted by an LLM often does not include propositional statements subject to verification. Both people and LLMs sometimes hallucinate (and bloviate) and are otherwise fallible, and therefore what is relevant is the ''accuracy of the propositional statements'', regardless of the source. 

If the editor takes sufficient care and has the expertise to verify the accuracy of the propositional statements made, the origin of those statements is irrelevant, as long as they are properly cited.

Because the source of verified and accurate propositional statements is irrelevant, marking, and especially obtrusive or pejorative marking, of AI generated content is unnecessary. 

Because I recognize that there may be good reasons to collect AI generated materials into a category, I recommend the “AI Generated” template be redesigned to be similar to the “[[:Category:Essays|Essay” category tag]]. This would be a small tag appearing along the right-hand margin of the page. The tag could usefully include a parameter identify the mode of the AI used, as suggested above. 

I hope these ideas are carefully considered as we continue to collaborate in adapting to this new and valuable technology. I also call for a moratorium on defacing existing materials until a consensus policy is adopted. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:45, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:Thanks for your ideas. I didn't realize this was a draft policy discussion. In this case, please take a look at this AI-generated and human-vetted course &quot;[[Law School 101]].&quot; It is so superb. I have taken it in its entirety, and I believe it's a top-notch learning resource for every adult. It's also pure joy to go through and sets the bar high.
:And I don't see anything online that would accomplish something remotely similar. 95% of undergraduates graduate having no clue what Law is all about, all while it affects every facet of our lives every day. 
:I think this should be a class in colleges, and the Intro part should even be offered in high schools (imagine the thrill of going through the entire one year of law school in ten classes?). I think it's the biggest, sorest gap in core education these days, and it's unclear why the legal professionals are MIA and not scrambling to fill this screaming void.
:Specifically regarding AI use - this debate must not be out of context. And the context is that access to education must not be stifled and veiled behind arbitrary exclusionary barriers.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 10:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::I just note that this policy draft is not against AI generated content @[[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]]. Thats why nobode disputed your previous post and your reflection was build in to the proposal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:52, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Cool. I understand this is an extremely complex topic on many levels.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 10:56, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
:You said &quot;If the editor takes sufficient care&quot;. But some editors does not take sufficient care. Some editor say its not a policy I dont mind. Thats why this policy is proposed that everbody do that and co-create quality resource on Wikiversity.
:You talk about some embarrassment that a source is marked as LLM-generated, but this rule requires you to mark it yourself and if you don't mark it, we can only suggest it to you. So why rebel against such a practice? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

== Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy ==

As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.

The stakeholders are:

# The users,
# The source providers, and
# The editors

There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.

The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 

As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].

To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.

Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 

The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:

=== Recommended Policy statement: ===

* Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
* Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
* Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred.

[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:58, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:Just note, that [[Wikiversity:Cite sources]] is not a policy. You can read it on the top of the page, its a ''proposed policy''. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
:I would say, that the actual text is better then your first two proposed statements, because:
:#Your proposal is less clear to me, so it might be less clear to others - we need policies which are easy to understand. For example, the course structure generated in LLM is not, in my opinion, a ''propositional statement'', but the rule should still cover such a case.
:#Your proposal is missing the option, when references are outputed by the LLM
:Templates that indicate AI-generated content should be mandatory, as they allow you to create statistics about AI-generated content. This is good for creating tools or other policies that work with AI-generated content, for example. It is also useful for patrolling users to be able to return to AI-assisted pages when checking. 
:Another thing is that you don't specify which specific templates to use. If you don't specify, everyone will use whatever templates they want and it will lead to chaos. Moreover, who is to determine that the templates are ''not unduly distracting or alarming''? As I wrote above, Wikiversity's policy should be clear. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

== Publicly available link - risk of link-rot? ==

Is there a risk that the statement:

''&lt;big&gt;The origin of the text must be clearly indicated in the edit summary and ideally include a publicly available link to the chatbot conversation&lt;/big&gt;''

may be problematic in the future if the links go bad (see [[wikipedia:Link_rot|link rot]])? Does the internet archive regularly comb the link of chatbot conversations? [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:19, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:IanVG|IanVG]] There may well be link rot over time but linking to the conversation is still better than not linking so that contributions and their sources are reviewable at least until the link does rot -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:48, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

== Mandatory link to chatbot conversation? ==


I'm not sure I'm a fan of (in bold) from the first acceptability requirement that states:&lt;blockquote&gt;The origin of the text must be clearly indicated in the edit summary and '''ideally include''' a publicly available link to the chatbot conversation&lt;/blockquote&gt;Why isn't the requirement strict? Why don't we make the link to the chat mandatory? [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:24, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:IanVG|IanVG]] linking to the chat could be made mandatory (and would be better scholarship) but not all LLMs provide a way to publicly link to chats, so such a policy would restrict what AI tools could be used -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:45, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::In true &quot;conversation&quot; cases a pastebin service such as https://paste.toolforge.org/ may be usable. As long as the text is legible as a transcript of the conversation it would be good for scholarship. Would not be usable for cases where AI is used as an &quot;auto-complete&quot; tool like GitHub copilot or Claude Code working on text file containing the wikitext source code though. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:27, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:::Agree. I've changed &quot;where available&quot; to &quot;(or a copy of the transcript)&quot;. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Lets keep it simple. Do we really need that link. Patrole is not able to controll all recent changes, who will be patrolling this? I would '''leave it as it is or on request'''. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 09:37, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
::Patrol can focus on the content itself, not the link. The link is like providing a source code to some media on Commons: good for knowing how it's made and for when modifications are needed. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:25, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I'd love to have an on-wiki LLM that we can tweak to do what we want here: which is roughly a condensed summary of the prompts and transcript leading up to the final output.  Often the full transcript includes many rounds of iteration and modification, and it will be many times longer than the final output including duplication of that output itself.  (this is the 'default' downloadable transcript where one is available)
:::I think the right request should be &quot;prompt and model&quot; and &quot;link to transcript where possible&quot; to avoid the duplication of the output. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 18:34, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Superseding the first policy proposal ==

Because the first policy proposal would distract users without due cause;

Because the first policy proposal would burden editors without due cause;

Because the first policy proposal includes elements that are arbitrarily chosen and not derived from stakeholder benefits;

Because great designs are as simple as possible and no simpler;

Because the first policy proposal has failed to attract proponents;

Because the stated objections to the second policy proposal are based on unsound arguments, [[wikipedia:Straw_man|straw men]], speculation, and [[wikipedia:Ad_hominem|ad hominem]] attacks;

I have superseded the first policy proposal text with the second policy proposal text. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 18:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

:Because we are in the process of improving the proposed policy through consensus, I suggest reverting these wholesale changes and working to iteratively improve it. You have strong opinions and some useful ideas; your input is valued. I appreciate [[Wikiversity:Be bold|being bold]], but community consensus is more likely to be achieved through gradual, collaborative iteration. Alternatively, consider forking the proposal and then the community can evolve two versions and then decide on the preferred approach. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:09, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for these comments and your moderating voice. How do I “fork the proposal”? I would like to present alternative policy text with equal visibility to the legacy policy proposal text so that there can be an informed and skillful dialogue leading toward a strong consensus.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:27, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::To &quot;fork&quot;, create a target page e.g., [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence 2]] e.g., by:
:::# Manual fork (copy and paste) - but loses edit history
:::# Export/import fork (use [[Special:Export]] and [[Wikiversity:Import]] to copy an original page and retain its edit history) - needs admin rights for import
:::# Or create an alternative policy proposal by starting from scratch
:::See also [[Wikiversity:Productive forking and tailoring is encouraged]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 01:23, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:None of these rationales are based on evidence and/or just completely false (ex, &quot;the first policy proposal has failed to attract proponents&quot; when multiple people have supported the policy as is on the Colloquium). I've removed your edit and I ask you not to do that again. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 12:03, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::You are obviously passionate about this issue, and we have differing points of view. Perhaps we can [[Transcending Conflict|transcend conflict]] and find [[Finding Common Ground|common ground]]. I suggest you develop a [[Creating Wikiversity Courses|Wikiversity course]] called something like “Uses and Abuses of Artificial Intelligence.” This will provide all of us with a well-considered basis for developing a policy.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Common ground sounds great. I've edited the current (original) draft a little to emphasise adoption of good scholarly practice (e.g., transparency) above specific requirements but also softened the requirement for the AI template to be displayed only for pages with a significant amount of AI-generated material. Hopefully this helps at least somewhat to address some of Lee's concerns. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:54, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

== The Single Mandated Template Needs to Become More Flexible ==

The presently proposed policy mandates the use of a single AI-Generated template for a wide range of AI uses. The scope of the policy identifies a broad range of AI usage, from grammar checkers to generation of extensive text passages. These various uses bear little or no similarity from the user’s perspective. More flexibility, more subtlety, more nuance is needed. I recommend adding parameters to the single mandated template to identify the nature of the AI usage, or providing a family of templates that editors can choose from to more accurately communicate the variety of AI used.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:54, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be better to have one template with parameters. As I previously mentioned more templates would create more mess from my perspective. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:11, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, template parameters could work well. One parameter could allow a text note to explain how gen-AI was used. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 00:52, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:This can probably be done technically. But now I realized that there may be a problem with the correct filling if several people edit one page and use different AI tools. There it is more technically feasible, respectively it may be difficult for the user to fill in these parameters and the template itself, or templates, may take up unnecessary space. Therefore, I think that the template can offer these variants, but it would be better if their filling was optional. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:09, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== Undue Attention and Distraction ==

Attention is our most precious resource, and it must be directed wisely. The presently mandated template places a large banner at the top of each page, as if use of AI is the most important attribute of the learning resource that the user must direct attention to and be concerned with. However, we are acclimating to the use of AI, much as we have acclimated to the use of pocket electronic calculators and the many other innovative technologies that have arisen over the past several decades. The AI notification must become less distracting. I suggest generating a smaller box that appears in the right-had margin like that produced by the ''essay''template. This will better align the attention attracted by the template to the attention it merits.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:54, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Sounds like a good idea. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:14, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:I've [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAI-generated&amp;diff=2804949&amp;oldid=2802022 simplified] the {{tl|AI-generated}} message.
:Note that this Wikiversity template is minimalistic compared to sister project equivalents e.g.,
:* [[Template:AI-generated|Template:AI-generated]] (Wikibooks)
:* [[Template:AI-generated|Template:AI-generated]] (Wikipedia)
:-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:23, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, this could be, see: [[User:Juandev/T/QA AI contribution]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== What problem is being addressed? ==

I recommend we be clear and explicit about the problem, real or perceived, that this policy is intended to address. What are the unmet needs of the users? What are the unmet needs of the editors that need to be addressed by such a policy? We can only rationally evaluate alternative polices in the context of know user and editor needs. Until we understand the users’ needs, and the editors’ needs it is premature to propose a policy.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:55, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:'''The basic problem we are solving here is the speed of generating such content.'''
:Qualitatively, texts created with the help of artificial intelligence are equal to texts without the use of AI. There is a range of contributions by quality: high-quality texts, average, and bad ones.
:Methods developed for text control, which were developed on Wikimedia projects, can fail in the case of quickly generated text in that the project will be overwhelmed with such content very quickly that some methods of control will fail and then the quality of the project will decrease.
:That is, we are looking for new solutions to prevent this and one of such solutions is to
:#''remind editors to check the LLM output'',
:#''notify others that the content was created using AI''.
:The control methods used so far are based on creating categories of edits. However, for non-AI contributions categories are recognizable (or can be recognized by a computer program), for AI contributions, I am not aware of a recognition method, so I think it is appropriate for the creator to '''voluntarily report''' AI was used. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:38, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
::Why is increased production speed a problem?
::There is no strong link between production speed and product quality. Electronic calculators and electronic spreadsheet increase both speed and accuracy. Word processors, spell checkers, grammar checkers, on-line dictionaries and thesauruses also increase speed and accuracy. Large Language Models can be used and abused in a wide variety of ways. Certainly, using a LLM to proofread copy, suggest alternative word choice, suggesting rewrites for an awkward sentence and other uses increase the quality of the final product. 
::Although the basic problem is stated as “speed of generation” perhaps the problem to be addressed is the quality of the resulting text.
::The quality of Wikiversity learning resources depends on many factors including curriculum design, topic choice, pedagogical approach, vocabulary choice, prerequisite assumptions, and of course, the factual accuracy of propositional sentences. LLM use pertains to only a fraction of these considerations. Do we have reliable evidence that when LLM’s are used skillfully they are less accurate than material written by the typical Wikiversity editor? 
::Existing Wikiversity policies address the accuracy of the content contributed. As we propose development of AI-specific policies, we need to be clearer and more accurate regarding the problem we are addressing. We need to be more parsimonious in developing policy to address actual problems.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 20:08, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] So the problem is still speed. You say, let's solve the problem when it occurs, but here it may happen that when the problem occurs, we will no longer be able to solve it, because we will be flooded with problems and we will not know where they are in that volume. That means, you find one problem in one page and youll figure out its in all pages, but you cannot determine which ones are thos pages. In other words, if the patrol team is now weakened, then it will be totally paralyzed when LLM texts or problems are arose – it will have many times more work than if the text created by LLM was marked and categorized. And secondly, the problem that LLM brings may not be revealed for a very long time. At the same time, it has long been known that LLM hallucinates and, for example, in GPT version 5, the hallucinations have increased slightly compared to version 4o.
:::In other words, I say let's mark and categorize pages with a significant LLM contribution. The marking informs the reader who the author is (correct marking of authorship is the gold standard in Western culture) and let's categorize them so that in the event of a problem we are able to catch the problem. (text created with GT, proofreading human) [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:53, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] Help me understand the phrase &quot;patrol team&quot;. Thanks. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:53, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::See [[:w:Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol]] @[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]. Even though we don't have an informative page about this on Wikiversity, it actually naturally exists on all projects. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 11:55, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, this provides a valuable service. I was not aware how organized this work is. Do patrol team members coordinate, distributing the work to ensure coverage with minimal duplication? Do they leave some marker (“Kilroy was here”) to inform the original editor and subsequent patrol team members that any particular page was scanned?  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 13:33, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:Agree with @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] that the basic problem to tackle is to have some sort of control/filter over excessive, low-quality gen-AI content being contributed in a way that would diminish rather than enhance the educational value of this project.
:In the first phase, we've just waited to see what happens. And recently there have been some instructive instances of low-quality gen-AI content so that has helped inform our ideas as have the approaches taken by other sister projects.
:I think it is good scholarly practice to inform readers about the genesis of text. Wiki does this typically very well through edit summaries. So, this should ideally be used to communicate and show specific gen-AI chat sources.
:And a gen-AI info box allows pages with significant gen-AI content to be flagged to readers and categorised. 
:Above all, for me, this is about intellectual honesty. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 00:48, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

== Tangential: style ==

IMHO the biggest issue with &quot;AI-generated content&quot; is the long-winded, low-information-density writing style it defaults to, complete with unnecessary use of lists over prose and boldening of text. The thing is that it does not take an AI to write like that -- humans who think lazily do many of the same things, especially when influenced by the AI writing-style in everyday conversations. Humans write text full of hot air all the time, complete with references that they did not read. Every fault we have seen in an AI has an analogue in some group of academic humans.

While tagging AI-generated content will aid in the detection of mass-manufactured hot air, it will not address the &quot;artisanal&quot; hot air lovingly typed by some human fingers. The [[WV:MOS]] should be expanded to cover some of these issues. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree. IMHO, a lot of human writing could be improved by running it through a language model.
:Feel free to suggest MOS improvements: [[Wikiversity talk:Manual of Style]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:29, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Wikiversity is not an encyclopedia, nor a repository of professional texts, although we also store professional texts here. I wonder if blank pages or lengthy narration are not more a methodology within a certain course. In short, Wikiversity cannot be judged through the lens of Wikipedia. Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikibooks and other content focus projects can be judged through the lens of Wikipedia, but I find it debatable for Wikiversity @[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]].
:Otherwise, for ordinary inflated or less quality text, there are control mechanisms such as [[:w:Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol|patrol]] and monitoring of watchlist, which could also be applied to text created by artificial intelligence. The problem with AI texts, however, is the speed of creation, so I would be in favor of adopting this special policy that would allow such text to be categorized. Ones its categorized, it could be easily checked. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 12:10, 17 April 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>g48wav40zfei7q1v8k4vx12ts9pxurr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807365</id>
      <parentid>2807346</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T10:11:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
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      <comment>/* I'm worried about my text becoming too much */ new section</comment>
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      <text bytes="41557" sha1="ma7p5kbjbptprg8lu48uzepwat0qje0" xml:space="preserve">== My POV ==

*I would remove &quot;The contributor should be an expert on the topic&quot;, because Wikiversity is not about authorities and we are not able to check weather certain person contributing LLM-created text is an expert or not.
*This is not applicable to all situations, when using LLM: &quot;where citations are included.&quot; Sometimes you generate wery short overviews or general things.
[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:41, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
: In my notes, I have a proposal to restrict the use of GenAI even more; it is much more of a threat than an opportunity for the English Wikiversity.
: In the mean time, requiring that a contributor be an expert or at least know what he is writing about is a very good thing, from my perspective. It is not true that we have no way of tentatively determining whether someone is an expert or not: we can ask for self-disclosure and we can test knowledge. And he who does not want to be tested should not be inserting GenAI into mainspace. --[[User:Dan Polansky|Dan Polansky]] ([[User talk:Dan Polansky|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dan Polansky|contribs]]) 07:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
::But the obsession with expertise closes down an open Wikiversity. Nupedia was expert and failed, Wikipedia was open and succeeded. Why should Wikiversity go the way of Nupedia? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 16:13, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with Juandev here, although in theory the content added by folks on Wikiversity should be coming from a place of expertise, I also understood one of the missions of wikiversity to be a place where expertise can be actively developed through the act of editing by editors. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:11, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Could this be like that we are letting people make their own mistakes, learn from their own mistakes(if they can) and then only intervene if the project becomes dormant/'paused' or if the contributor is asking for help from us for an extended period of time? Otherwise if we didn't let the users/contributors make mistakes they might not learn from them.
:::I feel like that is how my personal experience has been so far. I got help when I asked for it, otherwise I'm free to develop my draft as well as I can while making mistakes and hopefully learning from them. I guess exceptions for 'intervention' is when a user publishes content with red flags, and I don't know if my mention of Taylor Swift is one but I also need to learn sooner or later who to contact and for what reason. I feel like I'm having a Wikiversity journey but also a personal journey at the same time with and without &quot;AI Mode&quot; by Google and other providers. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 08:24, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:I think generative AI should be used as a tool. If you are copying the text word for word, the text might not be correct. If you are interested in a particular topic, feel free to use GenAI, but maybe check the facts before using it and provide the link to the conversation. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 11:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
::In that case, some kind of scale should be introduced that a human editor would use to indicate how much LLM was used. From full text created entirely by a chatbot (which I don't think is a good idea, because it may contain errors in the form of hallucinations and at the same time takes away the authorship from the given LLM). To text proofreading and only minor interventions by artificial intelligence. @[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|RailwayEnthusiast2025]] [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:36, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

== A proposed caveat on when they are used ==

If we allow generative AI usage, I think we should require disclosure of what tool was used, when, and which prompt(s) it was given. Understanding not only that it was used but how is crucial, plus, since these tools change rapidly, knowing the time/date is also key for understanding what it was likely processing and how when it generated the output. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:47, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

:Thats a good point. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 16:14, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
:I agree that knowing how users are using AI may be a good data for Wikiversity community to learn how AI is used, but I would not overcomplicate the policy. So what about to start this with optional values for {{tl|AI-generated}} tempate? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 08:41, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

== Different uses of AI ==

I am just pointing out that AI is not just used to generate text, which could be copy paste to Wikiversity. One may use AI to improve their grammar (for example with the use of Grammarly), other one may use GPT to create wiki tabs from CSV. So if the proposed policy is using wide title Artifical inteligence, I would consider all use cases and decide how to deal with them. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:38, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

: I believe that if the changes made by an AI in the authoring process falls into the definition of a &quot;minor edit&quot; (borrowing the definitions of [[:w:WP:MINOR]]), the resulting content should not count as &quot;AI-generated&quot;. So definitely not for the table thing. Grammar... depends on how extensive the change is (possibly because I dislike Grammarly; I may be quite biased here). --[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Template:AI-generated]] ==

Discussion on indication of a resource being AI-generated. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:55, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

== Confirm AI use is okay ==

Before I continue adding to the the Law School 101 course I started, I want to make sure that it's consistent with the AI policy. I'm seeing some conflicting opinions here that may not be as nuanced as they should be. 

I would not have decided to share the Law School 101 course from an LLM if I didn't feel it was uber good, completely missing in public access, and sorely needed to be available to the public.

I am 100% ok with having an AI disclaimer on the front page of the course, but I'm not going to go and add it to each page with the prompt on each page. That's stupid. Some prompts were &quot;Next class&quot;.

If I went through the course, I'm an expert on the topic of the course. Seriously, though, expertise is an extremely stretchable concept that cannot be used as a whip to disqualify great courses. A person may have had years of education, high IQ, for example. And the topic itself may be at the level of general knowledge where the value of expertise on the topic may much less relevant to the quality of material that the course creator sees in the content. 

And we're moving away from an era when LLMs were producing errors. Of course, all content from an LLM must be vetted, and of course expert opinions on class content are welcome, but to preclude excellent course content from being made public would detract from the mission of Wikiversity.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 07:11, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

== Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI ==

=== Adapting to New Technologies ===
I am old enough to have obtained my BSEE degree in 1972, before the general availability of pocket electronic calculators. I laboriously used a slide rule and pencil and paper for those hundreds of calculations. Since then, I have witnessed the introduction of pocket calculators, scientific calculators, cassette recorders, video recorders, CDs, DVDs, personal computers, spreadsheets, word processors, spell checkers, online dictionaries and thesauruses, cell phones, GPS, the Internet, search engines, grammar checkers, Nanny cams, cloud storage, Napster, streaming, smart phones, Wolfram Alpha, homework assistants, tablets, Wikimedia projects, MOOCs, videoconferencing, Crypto currency, and most recently AI large language models.

Each of these technologies has required us to adapt. We had to be clear about our needs and goals. These goals might include learning, teaching, getting the right answer, efficiency, profit, ease of use, entertainment, sharing, collaboration, safety, intellectual property rights, and no doubt other concerns. 

Technology is inherently morally neutral. A hammer can be used to build a house or to bludgeon someone. How we decide to use technology is our choice, not the destiny of the technology. 

=== Guiding Principles and Lessons Learned ===
It is wise to avoid overreacting or underreacting. 

It is wise to avoid “[[wikipedia:One-drop_rule|one drop rules]]” that indiscriminately, and unnecessarily, prejudice the use of emerging technologies.

It is wise to avoid any form of “[[wikipedia:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]” that causes unwarranted panic, anxiety, unfounded accusations, and an unfounded search for the guilty. Furthermore, unduly highlighting the use of AI within Wikiversity is a form of [[wikipedia:Ad_hominem|Ad hominem]] attack—attacking the source rather than the argument or resulting text. Doing so pejoratively stains the material, and the authors, with a form of [[wikipedia:The_Scarlet_Letter|scarlet letter]]. 

It is useful to understand and acknowledge the nuances of the many ways that the new technology can be used. Existing LLM’s can be used to:

1)     Proofread copy,

2)     As a thesaurus or to suggest a variety of word choices,

3)     To extend a list of items sharing various characteristics,

4)     To assist in brainstorming, 

5)     To write introductory, summary, or clarifying text.

6)     To suggest alternative wording or rewriting text,

7)     To modify the tone of the text,

8)     To generate a list of questions,

9)     As a research tool to identify likely sources of new information,

10)  To demonstrate the limits and capabilities of the technology, and

11)  in many more ways. 

These are very different uses of the technology, and it is misleading to place them into a single category.

=== Addressing Wikiversity goals. ===
Wikiversity provides “learning resources” freely available to the users. Editors have a responsibility to follow established [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity Policies]].  

Content [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|must be verifiable]]. While professors have the liberty to profess, ''accurate propositional statements'' typically provide more useful learning resources than do false or misleading propositional statements. As described above, text generated or assisted by an LLM often does not include propositional statements subject to verification. Both people and LLMs sometimes hallucinate (and bloviate) and are otherwise fallible, and therefore what is relevant is the ''accuracy of the propositional statements'', regardless of the source. 

If the editor takes sufficient care and has the expertise to verify the accuracy of the propositional statements made, the origin of those statements is irrelevant, as long as they are properly cited.

Because the source of verified and accurate propositional statements is irrelevant, marking, and especially obtrusive or pejorative marking, of AI generated content is unnecessary. 

Because I recognize that there may be good reasons to collect AI generated materials into a category, I recommend the “AI Generated” template be redesigned to be similar to the “[[:Category:Essays|Essay” category tag]]. This would be a small tag appearing along the right-hand margin of the page. The tag could usefully include a parameter identify the mode of the AI used, as suggested above. 

I hope these ideas are carefully considered as we continue to collaborate in adapting to this new and valuable technology. I also call for a moratorium on defacing existing materials until a consensus policy is adopted. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:45, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:Thanks for your ideas. I didn't realize this was a draft policy discussion. In this case, please take a look at this AI-generated and human-vetted course &quot;[[Law School 101]].&quot; It is so superb. I have taken it in its entirety, and I believe it's a top-notch learning resource for every adult. It's also pure joy to go through and sets the bar high.
:And I don't see anything online that would accomplish something remotely similar. 95% of undergraduates graduate having no clue what Law is all about, all while it affects every facet of our lives every day. 
:I think this should be a class in colleges, and the Intro part should even be offered in high schools (imagine the thrill of going through the entire one year of law school in ten classes?). I think it's the biggest, sorest gap in core education these days, and it's unclear why the legal professionals are MIA and not scrambling to fill this screaming void.
:Specifically regarding AI use - this debate must not be out of context. And the context is that access to education must not be stifled and veiled behind arbitrary exclusionary barriers.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 10:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::I just note that this policy draft is not against AI generated content @[[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]]. Thats why nobode disputed your previous post and your reflection was build in to the proposal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:52, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Cool. I understand this is an extremely complex topic on many levels.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 10:56, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
:You said &quot;If the editor takes sufficient care&quot;. But some editors does not take sufficient care. Some editor say its not a policy I dont mind. Thats why this policy is proposed that everbody do that and co-create quality resource on Wikiversity.
:You talk about some embarrassment that a source is marked as LLM-generated, but this rule requires you to mark it yourself and if you don't mark it, we can only suggest it to you. So why rebel against such a practice? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

== Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy ==

As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.

The stakeholders are:

# The users,
# The source providers, and
# The editors

There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.

The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 

As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].

To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.

Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 

The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:

=== Recommended Policy statement: ===

* Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
* Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
* Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred.

[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:58, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:Just note, that [[Wikiversity:Cite sources]] is not a policy. You can read it on the top of the page, its a ''proposed policy''. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
:I would say, that the actual text is better then your first two proposed statements, because:
:#Your proposal is less clear to me, so it might be less clear to others - we need policies which are easy to understand. For example, the course structure generated in LLM is not, in my opinion, a ''propositional statement'', but the rule should still cover such a case.
:#Your proposal is missing the option, when references are outputed by the LLM
:Templates that indicate AI-generated content should be mandatory, as they allow you to create statistics about AI-generated content. This is good for creating tools or other policies that work with AI-generated content, for example. It is also useful for patrolling users to be able to return to AI-assisted pages when checking. 
:Another thing is that you don't specify which specific templates to use. If you don't specify, everyone will use whatever templates they want and it will lead to chaos. Moreover, who is to determine that the templates are ''not unduly distracting or alarming''? As I wrote above, Wikiversity's policy should be clear. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

== Publicly available link - risk of link-rot? ==

Is there a risk that the statement:

''&lt;big&gt;The origin of the text must be clearly indicated in the edit summary and ideally include a publicly available link to the chatbot conversation&lt;/big&gt;''

may be problematic in the future if the links go bad (see [[wikipedia:Link_rot|link rot]])? Does the internet archive regularly comb the link of chatbot conversations? [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:19, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:IanVG|IanVG]] There may well be link rot over time but linking to the conversation is still better than not linking so that contributions and their sources are reviewable at least until the link does rot -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:48, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

== Mandatory link to chatbot conversation? ==


I'm not sure I'm a fan of (in bold) from the first acceptability requirement that states:&lt;blockquote&gt;The origin of the text must be clearly indicated in the edit summary and '''ideally include''' a publicly available link to the chatbot conversation&lt;/blockquote&gt;Why isn't the requirement strict? Why don't we make the link to the chat mandatory? [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:24, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:IanVG|IanVG]] linking to the chat could be made mandatory (and would be better scholarship) but not all LLMs provide a way to publicly link to chats, so such a policy would restrict what AI tools could be used -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:45, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::In true &quot;conversation&quot; cases a pastebin service such as https://paste.toolforge.org/ may be usable. As long as the text is legible as a transcript of the conversation it would be good for scholarship. Would not be usable for cases where AI is used as an &quot;auto-complete&quot; tool like GitHub copilot or Claude Code working on text file containing the wikitext source code though. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:27, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:::Agree. I've changed &quot;where available&quot; to &quot;(or a copy of the transcript)&quot;. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Lets keep it simple. Do we really need that link. Patrole is not able to controll all recent changes, who will be patrolling this? I would '''leave it as it is or on request'''. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 09:37, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
::Patrol can focus on the content itself, not the link. The link is like providing a source code to some media on Commons: good for knowing how it's made and for when modifications are needed. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:25, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I'd love to have an on-wiki LLM that we can tweak to do what we want here: which is roughly a condensed summary of the prompts and transcript leading up to the final output.  Often the full transcript includes many rounds of iteration and modification, and it will be many times longer than the final output including duplication of that output itself.  (this is the 'default' downloadable transcript where one is available)
:::I think the right request should be &quot;prompt and model&quot; and &quot;link to transcript where possible&quot; to avoid the duplication of the output. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 18:34, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Superseding the first policy proposal ==

Because the first policy proposal would distract users without due cause;

Because the first policy proposal would burden editors without due cause;

Because the first policy proposal includes elements that are arbitrarily chosen and not derived from stakeholder benefits;

Because great designs are as simple as possible and no simpler;

Because the first policy proposal has failed to attract proponents;

Because the stated objections to the second policy proposal are based on unsound arguments, [[wikipedia:Straw_man|straw men]], speculation, and [[wikipedia:Ad_hominem|ad hominem]] attacks;

I have superseded the first policy proposal text with the second policy proposal text. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 18:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

:Because we are in the process of improving the proposed policy through consensus, I suggest reverting these wholesale changes and working to iteratively improve it. You have strong opinions and some useful ideas; your input is valued. I appreciate [[Wikiversity:Be bold|being bold]], but community consensus is more likely to be achieved through gradual, collaborative iteration. Alternatively, consider forking the proposal and then the community can evolve two versions and then decide on the preferred approach. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:09, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for these comments and your moderating voice. How do I “fork the proposal”? I would like to present alternative policy text with equal visibility to the legacy policy proposal text so that there can be an informed and skillful dialogue leading toward a strong consensus.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:27, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::To &quot;fork&quot;, create a target page e.g., [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence 2]] e.g., by:
:::# Manual fork (copy and paste) - but loses edit history
:::# Export/import fork (use [[Special:Export]] and [[Wikiversity:Import]] to copy an original page and retain its edit history) - needs admin rights for import
:::# Or create an alternative policy proposal by starting from scratch
:::See also [[Wikiversity:Productive forking and tailoring is encouraged]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 01:23, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:None of these rationales are based on evidence and/or just completely false (ex, &quot;the first policy proposal has failed to attract proponents&quot; when multiple people have supported the policy as is on the Colloquium). I've removed your edit and I ask you not to do that again. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 12:03, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::You are obviously passionate about this issue, and we have differing points of view. Perhaps we can [[Transcending Conflict|transcend conflict]] and find [[Finding Common Ground|common ground]]. I suggest you develop a [[Creating Wikiversity Courses|Wikiversity course]] called something like “Uses and Abuses of Artificial Intelligence.” This will provide all of us with a well-considered basis for developing a policy.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Common ground sounds great. I've edited the current (original) draft a little to emphasise adoption of good scholarly practice (e.g., transparency) above specific requirements but also softened the requirement for the AI template to be displayed only for pages with a significant amount of AI-generated material. Hopefully this helps at least somewhat to address some of Lee's concerns. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:54, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

== The Single Mandated Template Needs to Become More Flexible ==

The presently proposed policy mandates the use of a single AI-Generated template for a wide range of AI uses. The scope of the policy identifies a broad range of AI usage, from grammar checkers to generation of extensive text passages. These various uses bear little or no similarity from the user’s perspective. More flexibility, more subtlety, more nuance is needed. I recommend adding parameters to the single mandated template to identify the nature of the AI usage, or providing a family of templates that editors can choose from to more accurately communicate the variety of AI used.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:54, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be better to have one template with parameters. As I previously mentioned more templates would create more mess from my perspective. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:11, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, template parameters could work well. One parameter could allow a text note to explain how gen-AI was used. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 00:52, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:This can probably be done technically. But now I realized that there may be a problem with the correct filling if several people edit one page and use different AI tools. There it is more technically feasible, respectively it may be difficult for the user to fill in these parameters and the template itself, or templates, may take up unnecessary space. Therefore, I think that the template can offer these variants, but it would be better if their filling was optional. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:09, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== Undue Attention and Distraction ==

Attention is our most precious resource, and it must be directed wisely. The presently mandated template places a large banner at the top of each page, as if use of AI is the most important attribute of the learning resource that the user must direct attention to and be concerned with. However, we are acclimating to the use of AI, much as we have acclimated to the use of pocket electronic calculators and the many other innovative technologies that have arisen over the past several decades. The AI notification must become less distracting. I suggest generating a smaller box that appears in the right-had margin like that produced by the ''essay''template. This will better align the attention attracted by the template to the attention it merits.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:54, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Sounds like a good idea. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:14, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:I've [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAI-generated&amp;diff=2804949&amp;oldid=2802022 simplified] the {{tl|AI-generated}} message.
:Note that this Wikiversity template is minimalistic compared to sister project equivalents e.g.,
:* [[Template:AI-generated|Template:AI-generated]] (Wikibooks)
:* [[Template:AI-generated|Template:AI-generated]] (Wikipedia)
:-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:23, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, this could be, see: [[User:Juandev/T/QA AI contribution]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== What problem is being addressed? ==

I recommend we be clear and explicit about the problem, real or perceived, that this policy is intended to address. What are the unmet needs of the users? What are the unmet needs of the editors that need to be addressed by such a policy? We can only rationally evaluate alternative polices in the context of know user and editor needs. Until we understand the users’ needs, and the editors’ needs it is premature to propose a policy.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:55, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:'''The basic problem we are solving here is the speed of generating such content.'''
:Qualitatively, texts created with the help of artificial intelligence are equal to texts without the use of AI. There is a range of contributions by quality: high-quality texts, average, and bad ones.
:Methods developed for text control, which were developed on Wikimedia projects, can fail in the case of quickly generated text in that the project will be overwhelmed with such content very quickly that some methods of control will fail and then the quality of the project will decrease.
:That is, we are looking for new solutions to prevent this and one of such solutions is to
:#''remind editors to check the LLM output'',
:#''notify others that the content was created using AI''.
:The control methods used so far are based on creating categories of edits. However, for non-AI contributions categories are recognizable (or can be recognized by a computer program), for AI contributions, I am not aware of a recognition method, so I think it is appropriate for the creator to '''voluntarily report''' AI was used. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:38, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
::Why is increased production speed a problem?
::There is no strong link between production speed and product quality. Electronic calculators and electronic spreadsheet increase both speed and accuracy. Word processors, spell checkers, grammar checkers, on-line dictionaries and thesauruses also increase speed and accuracy. Large Language Models can be used and abused in a wide variety of ways. Certainly, using a LLM to proofread copy, suggest alternative word choice, suggesting rewrites for an awkward sentence and other uses increase the quality of the final product. 
::Although the basic problem is stated as “speed of generation” perhaps the problem to be addressed is the quality of the resulting text.
::The quality of Wikiversity learning resources depends on many factors including curriculum design, topic choice, pedagogical approach, vocabulary choice, prerequisite assumptions, and of course, the factual accuracy of propositional sentences. LLM use pertains to only a fraction of these considerations. Do we have reliable evidence that when LLM’s are used skillfully they are less accurate than material written by the typical Wikiversity editor? 
::Existing Wikiversity policies address the accuracy of the content contributed. As we propose development of AI-specific policies, we need to be clearer and more accurate regarding the problem we are addressing. We need to be more parsimonious in developing policy to address actual problems.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 20:08, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] So the problem is still speed. You say, let's solve the problem when it occurs, but here it may happen that when the problem occurs, we will no longer be able to solve it, because we will be flooded with problems and we will not know where they are in that volume. That means, you find one problem in one page and youll figure out its in all pages, but you cannot determine which ones are thos pages. In other words, if the patrol team is now weakened, then it will be totally paralyzed when LLM texts or problems are arose – it will have many times more work than if the text created by LLM was marked and categorized. And secondly, the problem that LLM brings may not be revealed for a very long time. At the same time, it has long been known that LLM hallucinates and, for example, in GPT version 5, the hallucinations have increased slightly compared to version 4o.
:::In other words, I say let's mark and categorize pages with a significant LLM contribution. The marking informs the reader who the author is (correct marking of authorship is the gold standard in Western culture) and let's categorize them so that in the event of a problem we are able to catch the problem. (text created with GT, proofreading human) [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:53, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] Help me understand the phrase &quot;patrol team&quot;. Thanks. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:53, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::See [[:w:Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol]] @[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]. Even though we don't have an informative page about this on Wikiversity, it actually naturally exists on all projects. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 11:55, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, this provides a valuable service. I was not aware how organized this work is. Do patrol team members coordinate, distributing the work to ensure coverage with minimal duplication? Do they leave some marker (“Kilroy was here”) to inform the original editor and subsequent patrol team members that any particular page was scanned?  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 13:33, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:Agree with @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] that the basic problem to tackle is to have some sort of control/filter over excessive, low-quality gen-AI content being contributed in a way that would diminish rather than enhance the educational value of this project.
:In the first phase, we've just waited to see what happens. And recently there have been some instructive instances of low-quality gen-AI content so that has helped inform our ideas as have the approaches taken by other sister projects.
:I think it is good scholarly practice to inform readers about the genesis of text. Wiki does this typically very well through edit summaries. So, this should ideally be used to communicate and show specific gen-AI chat sources.
:And a gen-AI info box allows pages with significant gen-AI content to be flagged to readers and categorised. 
:Above all, for me, this is about intellectual honesty. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 00:48, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

== Tangential: style ==

IMHO the biggest issue with &quot;AI-generated content&quot; is the long-winded, low-information-density writing style it defaults to, complete with unnecessary use of lists over prose and boldening of text. The thing is that it does not take an AI to write like that -- humans who think lazily do many of the same things, especially when influenced by the AI writing-style in everyday conversations. Humans write text full of hot air all the time, complete with references that they did not read. Every fault we have seen in an AI has an analogue in some group of academic humans.

While tagging AI-generated content will aid in the detection of mass-manufactured hot air, it will not address the &quot;artisanal&quot; hot air lovingly typed by some human fingers. The [[WV:MOS]] should be expanded to cover some of these issues. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree. IMHO, a lot of human writing could be improved by running it through a language model.
:Feel free to suggest MOS improvements: [[Wikiversity talk:Manual of Style]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:29, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Wikiversity is not an encyclopedia, nor a repository of professional texts, although we also store professional texts here. I wonder if blank pages or lengthy narration are not more a methodology within a certain course. In short, Wikiversity cannot be judged through the lens of Wikipedia. Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikibooks and other content focus projects can be judged through the lens of Wikipedia, but I find it debatable for Wikiversity @[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]].
:Otherwise, for ordinary inflated or less quality text, there are control mechanisms such as [[:w:Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol|patrol]] and monitoring of watchlist, which could also be applied to text created by artificial intelligence. The problem with AI texts, however, is the speed of creation, so I would be in favor of adopting this special policy that would allow such text to be categorized. Ones its categorized, it could be easily checked. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 12:10, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== I'm worried about my text becoming too much ==

If my input / output archive of AI Prompts becomes too much or if you have an idea for how I can better save space, please let me know on my talk page. I'm trying to use the &quot;quasi-AI&quot; tools both to motivate me and to become bolder(&quot;be bold&quot;) in my editing.

I already know text takes up very little space but still I'm worried for some reason...maybe worried to try new things, like documenting extensively what I type to the &quot;Auasi-AI&quot; and I usually copy and text a lot of repeating texts so I'm worried about the text size building up &quot;exponentially&quot;.

Part of the reason for posting this is because sometimes or most of the time when I'm in a specific &quot;psychological mood&quot; I'm feeling like all the ground is just thin ice. So maybe today I want to contribute but I feel like I'm on thin ice. All might just be an illusion that I have to go through. If anyone got any advice for any resource you got(maybe even more preferable if it is &quot;AI-generated&quot;) please let me know if it can help contributors/learners become bolder. 

I hope that in the future we will accept &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; edits so much more so that we may even ask people who may struggle with understanding and outputting human text might be encouraged to use a &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; for their output, ie. my father asked me to use a &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; because he can't stand my &quot;blathering&quot; because he prefers &quot;spartanic minimalism&quot; and saying more with less text. This text was 100% human generated. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:11, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ma7p5kbjbptprg8lu48uzepwat0qje0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807366</id>
      <parentid>2807365</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T10:29:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Tangential: style */ Reply</comment>
      <origin>2807366</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="42604" sha1="kmarobsi7sglhunxhe6qsdacv71hymi" xml:space="preserve">== My POV ==

*I would remove &quot;The contributor should be an expert on the topic&quot;, because Wikiversity is not about authorities and we are not able to check weather certain person contributing LLM-created text is an expert or not.
*This is not applicable to all situations, when using LLM: &quot;where citations are included.&quot; Sometimes you generate wery short overviews or general things.
[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:41, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
: In my notes, I have a proposal to restrict the use of GenAI even more; it is much more of a threat than an opportunity for the English Wikiversity.
: In the mean time, requiring that a contributor be an expert or at least know what he is writing about is a very good thing, from my perspective. It is not true that we have no way of tentatively determining whether someone is an expert or not: we can ask for self-disclosure and we can test knowledge. And he who does not want to be tested should not be inserting GenAI into mainspace. --[[User:Dan Polansky|Dan Polansky]] ([[User talk:Dan Polansky|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dan Polansky|contribs]]) 07:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
::But the obsession with expertise closes down an open Wikiversity. Nupedia was expert and failed, Wikipedia was open and succeeded. Why should Wikiversity go the way of Nupedia? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 16:13, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
::I agree with Juandev here, although in theory the content added by folks on Wikiversity should be coming from a place of expertise, I also understood one of the missions of wikiversity to be a place where expertise can be actively developed through the act of editing by editors. [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:11, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Could this be like that we are letting people make their own mistakes, learn from their own mistakes(if they can) and then only intervene if the project becomes dormant/'paused' or if the contributor is asking for help from us for an extended period of time? Otherwise if we didn't let the users/contributors make mistakes they might not learn from them.
:::I feel like that is how my personal experience has been so far. I got help when I asked for it, otherwise I'm free to develop my draft as well as I can while making mistakes and hopefully learning from them. I guess exceptions for 'intervention' is when a user publishes content with red flags, and I don't know if my mention of Taylor Swift is one but I also need to learn sooner or later who to contact and for what reason. I feel like I'm having a Wikiversity journey but also a personal journey at the same time with and without &quot;AI Mode&quot; by Google and other providers. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 08:24, 2 May 2026 (UTC)
:I think generative AI should be used as a tool. If you are copying the text word for word, the text might not be correct. If you are interested in a particular topic, feel free to use GenAI, but maybe check the facts before using it and provide the link to the conversation. —[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana; color:#008000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;&quot;&gt;RailwayEnthusiast2025&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:RailwayEnthusiast2025|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#59a53f&quot;&gt;''talk with me!''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 11:44, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
::In that case, some kind of scale should be introduced that a human editor would use to indicate how much LLM was used. From full text created entirely by a chatbot (which I don't think is a good idea, because it may contain errors in the form of hallucinations and at the same time takes away the authorship from the given LLM). To text proofreading and only minor interventions by artificial intelligence. @[[User:RailwayEnthusiast2025|RailwayEnthusiast2025]] [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:36, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

== A proposed caveat on when they are used ==

If we allow generative AI usage, I think we should require disclosure of what tool was used, when, and which prompt(s) it was given. Understanding not only that it was used but how is crucial, plus, since these tools change rapidly, knowing the time/date is also key for understanding what it was likely processing and how when it generated the output. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 22:47, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

:Thats a good point. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 16:14, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
:I agree that knowing how users are using AI may be a good data for Wikiversity community to learn how AI is used, but I would not overcomplicate the policy. So what about to start this with optional values for {{tl|AI-generated}} tempate? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 08:41, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

== Different uses of AI ==

I am just pointing out that AI is not just used to generate text, which could be copy paste to Wikiversity. One may use AI to improve their grammar (for example with the use of Grammarly), other one may use GPT to create wiki tabs from CSV. So if the proposed policy is using wide title Artifical inteligence, I would consider all use cases and decide how to deal with them. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 14:38, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

: I believe that if the changes made by an AI in the authoring process falls into the definition of a &quot;minor edit&quot; (borrowing the definitions of [[:w:WP:MINOR]]), the resulting content should not count as &quot;AI-generated&quot;. So definitely not for the table thing. Grammar... depends on how extensive the change is (possibly because I dislike Grammarly; I may be quite biased here). --[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

== [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Template:AI-generated]] ==

Discussion on indication of a resource being AI-generated. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 15:55, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

== Confirm AI use is okay ==

Before I continue adding to the the Law School 101 course I started, I want to make sure that it's consistent with the AI policy. I'm seeing some conflicting opinions here that may not be as nuanced as they should be. 

I would not have decided to share the Law School 101 course from an LLM if I didn't feel it was uber good, completely missing in public access, and sorely needed to be available to the public.

I am 100% ok with having an AI disclaimer on the front page of the course, but I'm not going to go and add it to each page with the prompt on each page. That's stupid. Some prompts were &quot;Next class&quot;.

If I went through the course, I'm an expert on the topic of the course. Seriously, though, expertise is an extremely stretchable concept that cannot be used as a whip to disqualify great courses. A person may have had years of education, high IQ, for example. And the topic itself may be at the level of general knowledge where the value of expertise on the topic may much less relevant to the quality of material that the course creator sees in the content. 

And we're moving away from an era when LLMs were producing errors. Of course, all content from an LLM must be vetted, and of course expert opinions on class content are welcome, but to preclude excellent course content from being made public would detract from the mission of Wikiversity.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 07:11, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

== Evolving a Wikiversity policy on AI ==

=== Adapting to New Technologies ===
I am old enough to have obtained my BSEE degree in 1972, before the general availability of pocket electronic calculators. I laboriously used a slide rule and pencil and paper for those hundreds of calculations. Since then, I have witnessed the introduction of pocket calculators, scientific calculators, cassette recorders, video recorders, CDs, DVDs, personal computers, spreadsheets, word processors, spell checkers, online dictionaries and thesauruses, cell phones, GPS, the Internet, search engines, grammar checkers, Nanny cams, cloud storage, Napster, streaming, smart phones, Wolfram Alpha, homework assistants, tablets, Wikimedia projects, MOOCs, videoconferencing, Crypto currency, and most recently AI large language models.

Each of these technologies has required us to adapt. We had to be clear about our needs and goals. These goals might include learning, teaching, getting the right answer, efficiency, profit, ease of use, entertainment, sharing, collaboration, safety, intellectual property rights, and no doubt other concerns. 

Technology is inherently morally neutral. A hammer can be used to build a house or to bludgeon someone. How we decide to use technology is our choice, not the destiny of the technology. 

=== Guiding Principles and Lessons Learned ===
It is wise to avoid overreacting or underreacting. 

It is wise to avoid “[[wikipedia:One-drop_rule|one drop rules]]” that indiscriminately, and unnecessarily, prejudice the use of emerging technologies.

It is wise to avoid any form of “[[wikipedia:Satanic_panic|satanic panic]]” that causes unwarranted panic, anxiety, unfounded accusations, and an unfounded search for the guilty. Furthermore, unduly highlighting the use of AI within Wikiversity is a form of [[wikipedia:Ad_hominem|Ad hominem]] attack—attacking the source rather than the argument or resulting text. Doing so pejoratively stains the material, and the authors, with a form of [[wikipedia:The_Scarlet_Letter|scarlet letter]]. 

It is useful to understand and acknowledge the nuances of the many ways that the new technology can be used. Existing LLM’s can be used to:

1)     Proofread copy,

2)     As a thesaurus or to suggest a variety of word choices,

3)     To extend a list of items sharing various characteristics,

4)     To assist in brainstorming, 

5)     To write introductory, summary, or clarifying text.

6)     To suggest alternative wording or rewriting text,

7)     To modify the tone of the text,

8)     To generate a list of questions,

9)     As a research tool to identify likely sources of new information,

10)  To demonstrate the limits and capabilities of the technology, and

11)  in many more ways. 

These are very different uses of the technology, and it is misleading to place them into a single category.

=== Addressing Wikiversity goals. ===
Wikiversity provides “learning resources” freely available to the users. Editors have a responsibility to follow established [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity Policies]].  

Content [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|must be verifiable]]. While professors have the liberty to profess, ''accurate propositional statements'' typically provide more useful learning resources than do false or misleading propositional statements. As described above, text generated or assisted by an LLM often does not include propositional statements subject to verification. Both people and LLMs sometimes hallucinate (and bloviate) and are otherwise fallible, and therefore what is relevant is the ''accuracy of the propositional statements'', regardless of the source. 

If the editor takes sufficient care and has the expertise to verify the accuracy of the propositional statements made, the origin of those statements is irrelevant, as long as they are properly cited.

Because the source of verified and accurate propositional statements is irrelevant, marking, and especially obtrusive or pejorative marking, of AI generated content is unnecessary. 

Because I recognize that there may be good reasons to collect AI generated materials into a category, I recommend the “AI Generated” template be redesigned to be similar to the “[[:Category:Essays|Essay” category tag]]. This would be a small tag appearing along the right-hand margin of the page. The tag could usefully include a parameter identify the mode of the AI used, as suggested above. 

I hope these ideas are carefully considered as we continue to collaborate in adapting to this new and valuable technology. I also call for a moratorium on defacing existing materials until a consensus policy is adopted. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 22:45, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

:Thanks for your ideas. I didn't realize this was a draft policy discussion. In this case, please take a look at this AI-generated and human-vetted course &quot;[[Law School 101]].&quot; It is so superb. I have taken it in its entirety, and I believe it's a top-notch learning resource for every adult. It's also pure joy to go through and sets the bar high.
:And I don't see anything online that would accomplish something remotely similar. 95% of undergraduates graduate having no clue what Law is all about, all while it affects every facet of our lives every day. 
:I think this should be a class in colleges, and the Intro part should even be offered in high schools (imagine the thrill of going through the entire one year of law school in ten classes?). I think it's the biggest, sorest gap in core education these days, and it's unclear why the legal professionals are MIA and not scrambling to fill this screaming void.
:Specifically regarding AI use - this debate must not be out of context. And the context is that access to education must not be stifled and veiled behind arbitrary exclusionary barriers.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 10:19, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
::I just note that this policy draft is not against AI generated content @[[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]]. Thats why nobode disputed your previous post and your reflection was build in to the proposal. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:52, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Cool. I understand this is an extremely complex topic on many levels.  [[User:Berkeleywho|Berkeleywho]] ([[User talk:Berkeleywho|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berkeleywho|contribs]]) 10:56, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
:You said &quot;If the editor takes sufficient care&quot;. But some editors does not take sufficient care. Some editor say its not a policy I dont mind. Thats why this policy is proposed that everbody do that and co-create quality resource on Wikiversity.
:You talk about some embarrassment that a source is marked as LLM-generated, but this rule requires you to mark it yourself and if you don't mark it, we can only suggest it to you. So why rebel against such a practice? [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 10:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

== Toward a Justified and Parsimonious AI Policy ==

As we collaborate to develop a consensus policy on the use of Large Language Models, it is wise to begin by considering the needs of the various stakeholders to the policy.

The stakeholders are:

# The users,
# The source providers, and
# The editors

There may also be others with a minor stake in this policy, including the population at large.

The many needs of the users are currently addressed by long-standing [[Wikiversity:Policies|Wikiversity policies]], so we can focus on what, if any, additional needs arise as LLMs are deployed. 

As always, users need assurance that propositional statements are accurate. This is covered by the existing policy on [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verifiably]]. In addition, it is expected by both the users and those that provide materials used as sources for the text are [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|accurately attributed]]. This is also covered by [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|existing policies]].

To respect the time and effort of editors, a parsimonious policy will unburden editors from costly requirements that exceed benefits to the users.

Finally, it is important to recognize that because attention is our most valuable seizing attention unnecessarily is a form of theft. 

The following proposed policy statement results from these considerations:

=== Recommended Policy statement: ===

* Editors [[Wikiversity:Verifiability|verify the accuracy]] of propositional statements, regardless of the source.
* Editors [[Wikiversity:Cite sources|attribute the source]] of propositional statements. In the case of LLM, cite the LLM model and the prompt used.
* Use of various available templates to mark the use of LLM are optional. Templates that are flexible in noting the type and extend of LLM usage are preferred. Templates that avoid unduly distracting or alarming the user are preferred.

[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:58, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

:Just note, that [[Wikiversity:Cite sources]] is not a policy. You can read it on the top of the page, its a ''proposed policy''. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
:I would say, that the actual text is better then your first two proposed statements, because:
:#Your proposal is less clear to me, so it might be less clear to others - we need policies which are easy to understand. For example, the course structure generated in LLM is not, in my opinion, a ''propositional statement'', but the rule should still cover such a case.
:#Your proposal is missing the option, when references are outputed by the LLM
:Templates that indicate AI-generated content should be mandatory, as they allow you to create statistics about AI-generated content. This is good for creating tools or other policies that work with AI-generated content, for example. It is also useful for patrolling users to be able to return to AI-assisted pages when checking. 
:Another thing is that you don't specify which specific templates to use. If you don't specify, everyone will use whatever templates they want and it will lead to chaos. Moreover, who is to determine that the templates are ''not unduly distracting or alarming''? As I wrote above, Wikiversity's policy should be clear. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

== Publicly available link - risk of link-rot? ==

Is there a risk that the statement:

''&lt;big&gt;The origin of the text must be clearly indicated in the edit summary and ideally include a publicly available link to the chatbot conversation&lt;/big&gt;''

may be problematic in the future if the links go bad (see [[wikipedia:Link_rot|link rot]])? Does the internet archive regularly comb the link of chatbot conversations? [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:19, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:IanVG|IanVG]] There may well be link rot over time but linking to the conversation is still better than not linking so that contributions and their sources are reviewable at least until the link does rot -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:48, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

== Mandatory link to chatbot conversation? ==


I'm not sure I'm a fan of (in bold) from the first acceptability requirement that states:&lt;blockquote&gt;The origin of the text must be clearly indicated in the edit summary and '''ideally include''' a publicly available link to the chatbot conversation&lt;/blockquote&gt;Why isn't the requirement strict? Why don't we make the link to the chat mandatory? [[User:IanVG|IanVG]] ([[User talk:IanVG|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/IanVG|contribs]]) 21:24, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

:@[[User:IanVG|IanVG]] linking to the chat could be made mandatory (and would be better scholarship) but not all LLMs provide a way to publicly link to chats, so such a policy would restrict what AI tools could be used -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 11:45, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
::In true &quot;conversation&quot; cases a pastebin service such as https://paste.toolforge.org/ may be usable. As long as the text is legible as a transcript of the conversation it would be good for scholarship. Would not be usable for cases where AI is used as an &quot;auto-complete&quot; tool like GitHub copilot or Claude Code working on text file containing the wikitext source code though. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:27, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:::Agree. I've changed &quot;where available&quot; to &quot;(or a copy of the transcript)&quot;. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Lets keep it simple. Do we really need that link. Patrole is not able to controll all recent changes, who will be patrolling this? I would '''leave it as it is or on request'''. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 09:37, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
::Patrol can focus on the content itself, not the link. The link is like providing a source code to some media on Commons: good for knowing how it's made and for when modifications are needed. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:25, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:::I'd love to have an on-wiki LLM that we can tweak to do what we want here: which is roughly a condensed summary of the prompts and transcript leading up to the final output.  Often the full transcript includes many rounds of iteration and modification, and it will be many times longer than the final output including duplication of that output itself.  (this is the 'default' downloadable transcript where one is available)
:::I think the right request should be &quot;prompt and model&quot; and &quot;link to transcript where possible&quot; to avoid the duplication of the output. &lt;span style=&quot;padding:0 2px 0 2px;background-color:white;color:#bbb;&quot;&gt;&amp;ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|&lt;font style=&quot;color:#f90;&quot;&gt;+&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 18:34, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

== Superseding the first policy proposal ==

Because the first policy proposal would distract users without due cause;

Because the first policy proposal would burden editors without due cause;

Because the first policy proposal includes elements that are arbitrarily chosen and not derived from stakeholder benefits;

Because great designs are as simple as possible and no simpler;

Because the first policy proposal has failed to attract proponents;

Because the stated objections to the second policy proposal are based on unsound arguments, [[wikipedia:Straw_man|straw men]], speculation, and [[wikipedia:Ad_hominem|ad hominem]] attacks;

I have superseded the first policy proposal text with the second policy proposal text. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 18:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

:Because we are in the process of improving the proposed policy through consensus, I suggest reverting these wholesale changes and working to iteratively improve it. You have strong opinions and some useful ideas; your input is valued. I appreciate [[Wikiversity:Be bold|being bold]], but community consensus is more likely to be achieved through gradual, collaborative iteration. Alternatively, consider forking the proposal and then the community can evolve two versions and then decide on the preferred approach. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:09, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for these comments and your moderating voice. How do I “fork the proposal”? I would like to present alternative policy text with equal visibility to the legacy policy proposal text so that there can be an informed and skillful dialogue leading toward a strong consensus.   [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 11:27, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:::To &quot;fork&quot;, create a target page e.g., [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence 2]] e.g., by:
:::# Manual fork (copy and paste) - but loses edit history
:::# Export/import fork (use [[Special:Export]] and [[Wikiversity:Import]] to copy an original page and retain its edit history) - needs admin rights for import
:::# Or create an alternative policy proposal by starting from scratch
:::See also [[Wikiversity:Productive forking and tailoring is encouraged]] -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 01:23, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
:None of these rationales are based on evidence and/or just completely false (ex, &quot;the first policy proposal has failed to attract proponents&quot; when multiple people have supported the policy as is on the Colloquium). I've removed your edit and I ask you not to do that again. —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 12:03, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
::You are obviously passionate about this issue, and we have differing points of view. Perhaps we can [[Transcending Conflict|transcend conflict]] and find [[Finding Common Ground|common ground]]. I suggest you develop a [[Creating Wikiversity Courses|Wikiversity course]] called something like “Uses and Abuses of Artificial Intelligence.” This will provide all of us with a well-considered basis for developing a policy.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 19:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Common ground sounds great. I've edited the current (original) draft a little to emphasise adoption of good scholarly practice (e.g., transparency) above specific requirements but also softened the requirement for the AI template to be displayed only for pages with a significant amount of AI-generated material. Hopefully this helps at least somewhat to address some of Lee's concerns. Sincerely, James -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:54, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

== The Single Mandated Template Needs to Become More Flexible ==

The presently proposed policy mandates the use of a single AI-Generated template for a wide range of AI uses. The scope of the policy identifies a broad range of AI usage, from grammar checkers to generation of extensive text passages. These various uses bear little or no similarity from the user’s perspective. More flexibility, more subtlety, more nuance is needed. I recommend adding parameters to the single mandated template to identify the nature of the AI usage, or providing a family of templates that editors can choose from to more accurately communicate the variety of AI used.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:54, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:I think it would be better to have one template with parameters. As I previously mentioned more templates would create more mess from my perspective. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:11, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, template parameters could work well. One parameter could allow a text note to explain how gen-AI was used. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 00:52, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:This can probably be done technically. But now I realized that there may be a problem with the correct filling if several people edit one page and use different AI tools. There it is more technically feasible, respectively it may be difficult for the user to fill in these parameters and the template itself, or templates, may take up unnecessary space. Therefore, I think that the template can offer these variants, but it would be better if their filling was optional. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:09, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== Undue Attention and Distraction ==

Attention is our most precious resource, and it must be directed wisely. The presently mandated template places a large banner at the top of each page, as if use of AI is the most important attribute of the learning resource that the user must direct attention to and be concerned with. However, we are acclimating to the use of AI, much as we have acclimated to the use of pocket electronic calculators and the many other innovative technologies that have arisen over the past several decades. The AI notification must become less distracting. I suggest generating a smaller box that appears in the right-had margin like that produced by the ''essay''template. This will better align the attention attracted by the template to the attention it merits.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:54, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:Sounds like a good idea. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:14, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:I've [https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAI-generated&amp;diff=2804949&amp;oldid=2802022 simplified] the {{tl|AI-generated}} message.
:Note that this Wikiversity template is minimalistic compared to sister project equivalents e.g.,
:* [[Template:AI-generated|Template:AI-generated]] (Wikibooks)
:* [[Template:AI-generated|Template:AI-generated]] (Wikipedia)
:-- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:23, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, this could be, see: [[User:Juandev/T/QA AI contribution]]. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:06, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

== What problem is being addressed? ==

I recommend we be clear and explicit about the problem, real or perceived, that this policy is intended to address. What are the unmet needs of the users? What are the unmet needs of the editors that need to be addressed by such a policy? We can only rationally evaluate alternative polices in the context of know user and editor needs. Until we understand the users’ needs, and the editors’ needs it is premature to propose a policy.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:55, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

:'''The basic problem we are solving here is the speed of generating such content.'''
:Qualitatively, texts created with the help of artificial intelligence are equal to texts without the use of AI. There is a range of contributions by quality: high-quality texts, average, and bad ones.
:Methods developed for text control, which were developed on Wikimedia projects, can fail in the case of quickly generated text in that the project will be overwhelmed with such content very quickly that some methods of control will fail and then the quality of the project will decrease.
:That is, we are looking for new solutions to prevent this and one of such solutions is to
:#''remind editors to check the LLM output'',
:#''notify others that the content was created using AI''.
:The control methods used so far are based on creating categories of edits. However, for non-AI contributions categories are recognizable (or can be recognized by a computer program), for AI contributions, I am not aware of a recognition method, so I think it is appropriate for the creator to '''voluntarily report''' AI was used. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:38, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
::Why is increased production speed a problem?
::There is no strong link between production speed and product quality. Electronic calculators and electronic spreadsheet increase both speed and accuracy. Word processors, spell checkers, grammar checkers, on-line dictionaries and thesauruses also increase speed and accuracy. Large Language Models can be used and abused in a wide variety of ways. Certainly, using a LLM to proofread copy, suggest alternative word choice, suggesting rewrites for an awkward sentence and other uses increase the quality of the final product. 
::Although the basic problem is stated as “speed of generation” perhaps the problem to be addressed is the quality of the resulting text.
::The quality of Wikiversity learning resources depends on many factors including curriculum design, topic choice, pedagogical approach, vocabulary choice, prerequisite assumptions, and of course, the factual accuracy of propositional sentences. LLM use pertains to only a fraction of these considerations. Do we have reliable evidence that when LLM’s are used skillfully they are less accurate than material written by the typical Wikiversity editor? 
::Existing Wikiversity policies address the accuracy of the content contributed. As we propose development of AI-specific policies, we need to be clearer and more accurate regarding the problem we are addressing. We need to be more parsimonious in developing policy to address actual problems.  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 20:08, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] So the problem is still speed. You say, let's solve the problem when it occurs, but here it may happen that when the problem occurs, we will no longer be able to solve it, because we will be flooded with problems and we will not know where they are in that volume. That means, you find one problem in one page and youll figure out its in all pages, but you cannot determine which ones are thos pages. In other words, if the patrol team is now weakened, then it will be totally paralyzed when LLM texts or problems are arose – it will have many times more work than if the text created by LLM was marked and categorized. And secondly, the problem that LLM brings may not be revealed for a very long time. At the same time, it has long been known that LLM hallucinates and, for example, in GPT version 5, the hallucinations have increased slightly compared to version 4o.
:::In other words, I say let's mark and categorize pages with a significant LLM contribution. The marking informs the reader who the author is (correct marking of authorship is the gold standard in Western culture) and let's categorize them so that in the event of a problem we are able to catch the problem. (text created with GT, proofreading human) [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 21:53, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] Help me understand the phrase &quot;patrol team&quot;. Thanks. [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 12:53, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::See [[:w:Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol]] @[[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]]. Even though we don't have an informative page about this on Wikiversity, it actually naturally exists on all projects. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 11:55, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, this provides a valuable service. I was not aware how organized this work is. Do patrol team members coordinate, distributing the work to ensure coverage with minimal duplication? Do they leave some marker (“Kilroy was here”) to inform the original editor and subsequent patrol team members that any particular page was scanned?  [[User:Lbeaumont|Lbeaumont]] ([[User talk:Lbeaumont|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lbeaumont|contribs]]) 13:33, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
:Agree with @[[User:Juandev|Juandev]] that the basic problem to tackle is to have some sort of control/filter over excessive, low-quality gen-AI content being contributed in a way that would diminish rather than enhance the educational value of this project.
:In the first phase, we've just waited to see what happens. And recently there have been some instructive instances of low-quality gen-AI content so that has helped inform our ideas as have the approaches taken by other sister projects.
:I think it is good scholarly practice to inform readers about the genesis of text. Wiki does this typically very well through edit summaries. So, this should ideally be used to communicate and show specific gen-AI chat sources.
:And a gen-AI info box allows pages with significant gen-AI content to be flagged to readers and categorised. 
:Above all, for me, this is about intellectual honesty. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 00:48, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

== Tangential: style ==

IMHO the biggest issue with &quot;AI-generated content&quot; is the long-winded, low-information-density writing style it defaults to, complete with unnecessary use of lists over prose and boldening of text. The thing is that it does not take an AI to write like that -- humans who think lazily do many of the same things, especially when influenced by the AI writing-style in everyday conversations. Humans write text full of hot air all the time, complete with references that they did not read. Every fault we have seen in an AI has an analogue in some group of academic humans.

While tagging AI-generated content will aid in the detection of mass-manufactured hot air, it will not address the &quot;artisanal&quot; hot air lovingly typed by some human fingers. The [[WV:MOS]] should be expanded to cover some of these issues. [[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Artoria2e5|contribs]]) 05:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

:Agree. IMHO, a lot of human writing could be improved by running it through a language model.
:Feel free to suggest MOS improvements: [[Wikiversity talk:Manual of Style]]. -- [[User:Jtneill|Jtneill]] - &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Jtneill|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Jtneill|c]]&lt;/small&gt; 05:29, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
:Wikiversity is not an encyclopedia, nor a repository of professional texts, although we also store professional texts here. I wonder if blank pages or lengthy narration are not more a methodology within a certain course. In short, Wikiversity cannot be judged through the lens of Wikipedia. Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikibooks and other content focus projects can be judged through the lens of Wikipedia, but I find it debatable for Wikiversity @[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]].
:Otherwise, for ordinary inflated or less quality text, there are control mechanisms such as [[:w:Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol|patrol]] and monitoring of watchlist, which could also be applied to text created by artificial intelligence. The problem with AI texts, however, is the speed of creation, so I would be in favor of adopting this special policy that would allow such text to be categorized. Ones its categorized, it could be easily checked. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 12:10, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::{{quote|IMHO the biggest issue with &quot;AI-generated content&quot; is the long-winded, low-information-density writing style it defaults to, complete with unnecessary use of lists over prose and boldening of text.}}
::I think this could be developed into a useful resource where we suggest ways to type shorter text to a &quot;Quasi-AI&quot;, ie. &quot;Always reply with max 20 word responses to my input and if you type more words then your next response will be more limited each time I notice it&quot; (something like this, so the instructions  to the &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; and to any human reading the input understands what the goal is). That way anybody reading the text doesn't have to read a jungle of text. I myself have a problem with typing a lot of text and I believe &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; could be human's next best friend.(my reference is regarding &quot;The dog is human's best friend&quot;). This text was 100% human generated.
:[[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:29, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

== I'm worried about my text becoming too much ==

If my input / output archive of AI Prompts becomes too much or if you have an idea for how I can better save space, please let me know on my talk page. I'm trying to use the &quot;quasi-AI&quot; tools both to motivate me and to become bolder(&quot;be bold&quot;) in my editing.

I already know text takes up very little space but still I'm worried for some reason...maybe worried to try new things, like documenting extensively what I type to the &quot;Auasi-AI&quot; and I usually copy and text a lot of repeating texts so I'm worried about the text size building up &quot;exponentially&quot;.

Part of the reason for posting this is because sometimes or most of the time when I'm in a specific &quot;psychological mood&quot; I'm feeling like all the ground is just thin ice. So maybe today I want to contribute but I feel like I'm on thin ice. All might just be an illusion that I have to go through. If anyone got any advice for any resource you got(maybe even more preferable if it is &quot;AI-generated&quot;) please let me know if it can help contributors/learners become bolder. 

I hope that in the future we will accept &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; edits so much more so that we may even ask people who may struggle with understanding and outputting human text might be encouraged to use a &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; for their output, ie. my father asked me to use a &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; because he can't stand my &quot;blathering&quot; because he prefers &quot;spartanic minimalism&quot; and saying more with less text. This text was 100% human generated. [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:11, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kmarobsi7sglhunxhe6qsdacv71hymi</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:ThinkingScience</title>
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      <id>2807218</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* April 20th experiment, &quot;AI Decisions, sure. AI-generation NEVER&quot; */ strong opinion expressed, may offend some</comment>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8271" sha1="p2pgq6ve170vbiqyx0m9jq2w31p9rhe" xml:space="preserve">== Main focus: my &quot;idea&quot; ==

* This is my [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]]. There goes the &quot;main effort&quot; based on my other smaller effort in various places and also by using the methodology I one day hope I will make.
* [[User:ThinkingScience/ND_Inspired_Idea_Notebook|Daily Diary of ND Inspired Idea]]
* These are my course notes: [[User:ThinkingScience/Draftspace/Coursera]]

== Taking responsibility for famous people or people to focus on in [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]] ==

I need to take responsibility for the choices I make. If any of my choices resulted in a harm to a real person I am responsible whether I agree or not to any blame being put on me.

This section may be moved to a sub-page if I think it starts getting too &quot;cluttered&quot; and later into more sub-pages if the list just grows and grows.

=== T ===

Taylor Swift. Why I chose Taylor Swift. I have watched interviews with her before. She is an interesting person to me. I discovered she is open about her creation process. I value that in human beings and that includes people I meet offline, in the &quot;real world&quot; but it will be a challenge for me to make video notes that are &quot;Do no harm&quot;. I may be &quot;way in over my head&quot;. Please help me if you think I'm doing something wrong. 

She has a dedicated follower base which may have a large influence. Maybe I'll suffer for this but keeping my &quot;idea&quot; locked inside &quot;my head&quot; I think will cause greater harm to me than good. I know what risk I am taking...or probably not but I gotta move forward or try to. Perhaps my fears are greater than real risks in reality but who knows?

== April 20th experiment, &quot;AI Decisions, sure. AI-generation NEVER&quot; ==

Starting today on April 20th after 08:46 UTC Time(I got UTC time on this computer where I'm so far only using this account), I'll begin by editing Wikiversity resources by being more encouraged by &quot;yeah, do that&quot; comments by Large Language Models.

Nothing of it will be &quot;AI-generated&quot; but the decisions I take: the reason for the decisions I take may be because of &quot;AI-generation&quot; but of course I will try to stay away from clear stupidity like if the AI-generation says &quot;jump off a cliff&quot;. An extreme example, but I wanted to make a point that I won't take any decision and I will question the &quot;AI/LLM&quot; if it suggests something that to me sounds insane.

If you see anything weird please comment on my talk page after you've reverted my edits.

When this experiment ends, I don't have a plan for that yet. User input might help.

This is where I make notes of decisions that may motivate me to do edits in places. It should include both inputs and outputs and what kind of &quot;version&quot; of &quot;AI&quot;s/LLMs I'm using:
* [[/April 20th Experiment Notes|&quot;AI Notes&quot; for motivation purposes in this &quot;experiment&quot;]]

=== Defining the end goal ===

The end goal is supposed to make me make useful edits or being able to make edits or contributions on more than just only the projects I'm &quot;mainly&quot; interested in.

'''Success Criteria'''

* &quot;Did the AI's decision lead me to make a useful edit on a page I wouldn't have chosen on my own?&quot;
** (this part was generated by &quot;AI Mode&quot; on May 1, 2026)
- Strong Opinion, may offend some: I'd call it &quot;LLM Mode&quot; even if Google wants us to call it &quot;AI Mode&quot; because largely it's an LLM program that is programmed to also defend things that the program makes up from time to time. &quot;soft AI&quot; at best! These terms do harm to society by making us invest money in things which is basically an LLM and then asks us to &quot;trust&quot; that they will do more work in the future. Like a bubble.

== Coursera schedule and notes ==

Today April 16, 2026 my contributions contain a lot of spelling mistakes. They may be present other days too. You'll probably spot spelling mistakes all over.

My studying schedule as I've understood it so far(studying with my mother):

This schedule is not reliable(cause my studying partner keeps changing the time, which is not necessarily bad):

UTC TIME: 07:30 - 09:30 (2 hours a day, 6 hours a week)
* Monday
* Thursday
* Saturday

== I'm studying on Coursera and about their Terms of Use ==
'''Nothing here is legal advice'''. This is very important.
Nothing in this &quot;Wikisection&quot; constitutes legal advice! Please don't blindly follow my advice and if someone copies some parts of this text without providing context then they are responsible for what they share! If you have been tricked by scammers that's sad but I am NOT responsible for illegal activities.

* web.archive.org/web/20260325233813/https://www.coursera.org/about/terms

&quot;When you create your Coursera account, and when you subsequently use certain features, you must provide us with accurate and complete information, and you agree to update your information to keep it accurate and complete.&quot;

My interpretation of that is that on Coursera I have to provide a real name. There is a field for &quot;Full name&quot;(retrieved 2026-04-09 UTC YYYY-MM-DD). How does that correspond to these terms? It doesn't say &quot;Real name&quot; but even if it did, what if I choose a name for myself and I'd like to call myself ThinkingScience? Is it still accurate? 

They don't specify what I actually have to do, just based on my quote. It would be nice for me and other Coursera learners to know what is true. Is the privacy on Wikiversity better? I'd say it is because on Coursera we are forced to provide an email address to create an account. We are not forced to do that on Wikiversity, Wikidata etc.

== notes about this account ==

This account is an alternative account on a computer I don't trust. It should never be allowed to vote and if it does please block this account. Doubling down on this today at 2026-04-30!(intent unchanged)

It's an alt of [[User:Dekatriofovia]] which unfortunately I have to prove right now despite me being in a hurry...so I'll edit my account at Dekatriofovia at the same time almost and publish at the same time...so you know it's me.

The reason for this account is it's on a computer with a bigger screen so I can more easily read books and documents.

== a thing I did not regret(modified section title) ==

This may be blathering but it ends with another Wikilink where I will pass my &quot;idea&quot; through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics''' and through anything else that might be required before anything enters Draft space. The &quot;idea&quot; is &quot;'''The Neurodiversity-inspired idea'''&quot;.

[[Protoscience]] was an interesting read. I think it will be calming for me if my idea is proven to be pseudoscience cause I can stop worrying about it and leave it behind me. &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot;(in lack for a better name, for now) will not be published in main space, only in draft space.

[[Wikiversity:Original research]] made me think &quot;I may be way over my head&quot; (though I stumbled around a bit due to not knowing English at an advanced enough level...this parenthesis is about some unimportant trivia).

I'm gonna place everything regarding &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot; into draft space and pass it through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics'''(sorry for repeating myself) and anything else I can find and also ask the community here on Wikiversity what else to place it through.

I thought I was gonna create '''User:ThinkingScience/The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea'''(but turns out I was encouraged to create it in Draft: space ... (this paragraph has been modified. Edit history might keep the original). Here are my notes again which I wanted to link to [[User:ThinkingScience/ND Inspired Idea Notebook]]

'''Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea''' that probably is in line with &quot;be bold&quot;.

=== It happened, a small burden has been lifted ===

I posted to the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium]] https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Colloquium&amp;oldid=2805080

Thing may be archive in the future. I've lost many things that way.(but also re-discovered many things that landed in the archive that I had posted too!)

One week. One small burden lifted. It was the only way forward. I may have been driven insane otherwise or this is just a very bad day I'm having. Full of things that &quot;real life&quot; is demanding of me.

More specifically, this is what I posted [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Advice_needed:_A_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea/observation]]</text>
      <sha1>p2pgq6ve170vbiqyx0m9jq2w31p9rhe</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807219</id>
      <parentid>2807218</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:07:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Defining the end goal */ I make no sense. I guess this question is the criteria. Not something I'm supposed to answer, it must be rhetorical</comment>
      <origin>2807219</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7848" sha1="45yguwgcq6rm3ntkx1x8uzwirhk5zpz" xml:space="preserve">== Main focus: my &quot;idea&quot; ==

* This is my [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]]. There goes the &quot;main effort&quot; based on my other smaller effort in various places and also by using the methodology I one day hope I will make.
* [[User:ThinkingScience/ND_Inspired_Idea_Notebook|Daily Diary of ND Inspired Idea]]
* These are my course notes: [[User:ThinkingScience/Draftspace/Coursera]]

== Taking responsibility for famous people or people to focus on in [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]] ==

I need to take responsibility for the choices I make. If any of my choices resulted in a harm to a real person I am responsible whether I agree or not to any blame being put on me.

This section may be moved to a sub-page if I think it starts getting too &quot;cluttered&quot; and later into more sub-pages if the list just grows and grows.

=== T ===

Taylor Swift. Why I chose Taylor Swift. I have watched interviews with her before. She is an interesting person to me. I discovered she is open about her creation process. I value that in human beings and that includes people I meet offline, in the &quot;real world&quot; but it will be a challenge for me to make video notes that are &quot;Do no harm&quot;. I may be &quot;way in over my head&quot;. Please help me if you think I'm doing something wrong. 

She has a dedicated follower base which may have a large influence. Maybe I'll suffer for this but keeping my &quot;idea&quot; locked inside &quot;my head&quot; I think will cause greater harm to me than good. I know what risk I am taking...or probably not but I gotta move forward or try to. Perhaps my fears are greater than real risks in reality but who knows?

== April 20th experiment, &quot;AI Decisions, sure. AI-generation NEVER&quot; ==

Starting today on April 20th after 08:46 UTC Time(I got UTC time on this computer where I'm so far only using this account), I'll begin by editing Wikiversity resources by being more encouraged by &quot;yeah, do that&quot; comments by Large Language Models.

Nothing of it will be &quot;AI-generated&quot; but the decisions I take: the reason for the decisions I take may be because of &quot;AI-generation&quot; but of course I will try to stay away from clear stupidity like if the AI-generation says &quot;jump off a cliff&quot;. An extreme example, but I wanted to make a point that I won't take any decision and I will question the &quot;AI/LLM&quot; if it suggests something that to me sounds insane.

If you see anything weird please comment on my talk page after you've reverted my edits.

When this experiment ends, I don't have a plan for that yet. User input might help.

This is where I make notes of decisions that may motivate me to do edits in places. It should include both inputs and outputs and what kind of &quot;version&quot; of &quot;AI&quot;s/LLMs I'm using:
* [[/April 20th Experiment Notes|&quot;AI Notes&quot; for motivation purposes in this &quot;experiment&quot;]]

=== Defining the end goal ===

The end goal is supposed to make me make useful edits or being able to make edits or contributions on more than just only the projects I'm &quot;mainly&quot; interested in.

'''Success Criteria'''

* &quot;Did the AI's decision lead me to make a useful edit on a page I wouldn't have chosen on my own?&quot;
** (this part was generated by &quot;AI Mode&quot; on May 1, 2026)

== Coursera schedule and notes ==

Today April 16, 2026 my contributions contain a lot of spelling mistakes. They may be present other days too. You'll probably spot spelling mistakes all over.

My studying schedule as I've understood it so far(studying with my mother):

This schedule is not reliable(cause my studying partner keeps changing the time, which is not necessarily bad):

UTC TIME: 07:30 - 09:30 (2 hours a day, 6 hours a week)
* Monday
* Thursday
* Saturday

== I'm studying on Coursera and about their Terms of Use ==
'''Nothing here is legal advice'''. This is very important.
Nothing in this &quot;Wikisection&quot; constitutes legal advice! Please don't blindly follow my advice and if someone copies some parts of this text without providing context then they are responsible for what they share! If you have been tricked by scammers that's sad but I am NOT responsible for illegal activities.

* web.archive.org/web/20260325233813/https://www.coursera.org/about/terms

&quot;When you create your Coursera account, and when you subsequently use certain features, you must provide us with accurate and complete information, and you agree to update your information to keep it accurate and complete.&quot;

My interpretation of that is that on Coursera I have to provide a real name. There is a field for &quot;Full name&quot;(retrieved 2026-04-09 UTC YYYY-MM-DD). How does that correspond to these terms? It doesn't say &quot;Real name&quot; but even if it did, what if I choose a name for myself and I'd like to call myself ThinkingScience? Is it still accurate? 

They don't specify what I actually have to do, just based on my quote. It would be nice for me and other Coursera learners to know what is true. Is the privacy on Wikiversity better? I'd say it is because on Coursera we are forced to provide an email address to create an account. We are not forced to do that on Wikiversity, Wikidata etc.

== notes about this account ==

This account is an alternative account on a computer I don't trust. It should never be allowed to vote and if it does please block this account. Doubling down on this today at 2026-04-30!(intent unchanged)

It's an alt of [[User:Dekatriofovia]] which unfortunately I have to prove right now despite me being in a hurry...so I'll edit my account at Dekatriofovia at the same time almost and publish at the same time...so you know it's me.

The reason for this account is it's on a computer with a bigger screen so I can more easily read books and documents.

== a thing I did not regret(modified section title) ==

This may be blathering but it ends with another Wikilink where I will pass my &quot;idea&quot; through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics''' and through anything else that might be required before anything enters Draft space. The &quot;idea&quot; is &quot;'''The Neurodiversity-inspired idea'''&quot;.

[[Protoscience]] was an interesting read. I think it will be calming for me if my idea is proven to be pseudoscience cause I can stop worrying about it and leave it behind me. &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot;(in lack for a better name, for now) will not be published in main space, only in draft space.

[[Wikiversity:Original research]] made me think &quot;I may be way over my head&quot; (though I stumbled around a bit due to not knowing English at an advanced enough level...this parenthesis is about some unimportant trivia).

I'm gonna place everything regarding &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot; into draft space and pass it through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics'''(sorry for repeating myself) and anything else I can find and also ask the community here on Wikiversity what else to place it through.

I thought I was gonna create '''User:ThinkingScience/The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea'''(but turns out I was encouraged to create it in Draft: space ... (this paragraph has been modified. Edit history might keep the original). Here are my notes again which I wanted to link to [[User:ThinkingScience/ND Inspired Idea Notebook]]

'''Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea''' that probably is in line with &quot;be bold&quot;.

=== It happened, a small burden has been lifted ===

I posted to the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium]] https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Colloquium&amp;oldid=2805080

Thing may be archive in the future. I've lost many things that way.(but also re-discovered many things that landed in the archive that I had posted too!)

One week. One small burden lifted. It was the only way forward. I may have been driven insane otherwise or this is just a very bad day I'm having. Full of things that &quot;real life&quot; is demanding of me.

More specifically, this is what I posted [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Advice_needed:_A_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea/observation]]</text>
      <sha1>45yguwgcq6rm3ntkx1x8uzwirhk5zpz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807220</id>
      <parentid>2807219</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:10:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Defining the end goal */ Modified the &quot;LLM&quot; question to what I think is useful</comment>
      <origin>2807220</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7927" sha1="nev5igw52duhe5jlosuwoszl2rduoyf" xml:space="preserve">== Main focus: my &quot;idea&quot; ==

* This is my [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]]. There goes the &quot;main effort&quot; based on my other smaller effort in various places and also by using the methodology I one day hope I will make.
* [[User:ThinkingScience/ND_Inspired_Idea_Notebook|Daily Diary of ND Inspired Idea]]
* These are my course notes: [[User:ThinkingScience/Draftspace/Coursera]]

== Taking responsibility for famous people or people to focus on in [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]] ==

I need to take responsibility for the choices I make. If any of my choices resulted in a harm to a real person I am responsible whether I agree or not to any blame being put on me.

This section may be moved to a sub-page if I think it starts getting too &quot;cluttered&quot; and later into more sub-pages if the list just grows and grows.

=== T ===

Taylor Swift. Why I chose Taylor Swift. I have watched interviews with her before. She is an interesting person to me. I discovered she is open about her creation process. I value that in human beings and that includes people I meet offline, in the &quot;real world&quot; but it will be a challenge for me to make video notes that are &quot;Do no harm&quot;. I may be &quot;way in over my head&quot;. Please help me if you think I'm doing something wrong. 

She has a dedicated follower base which may have a large influence. Maybe I'll suffer for this but keeping my &quot;idea&quot; locked inside &quot;my head&quot; I think will cause greater harm to me than good. I know what risk I am taking...or probably not but I gotta move forward or try to. Perhaps my fears are greater than real risks in reality but who knows?

== April 20th experiment, &quot;AI Decisions, sure. AI-generation NEVER&quot; ==

Starting today on April 20th after 08:46 UTC Time(I got UTC time on this computer where I'm so far only using this account), I'll begin by editing Wikiversity resources by being more encouraged by &quot;yeah, do that&quot; comments by Large Language Models.

Nothing of it will be &quot;AI-generated&quot; but the decisions I take: the reason for the decisions I take may be because of &quot;AI-generation&quot; but of course I will try to stay away from clear stupidity like if the AI-generation says &quot;jump off a cliff&quot;. An extreme example, but I wanted to make a point that I won't take any decision and I will question the &quot;AI/LLM&quot; if it suggests something that to me sounds insane.

If you see anything weird please comment on my talk page after you've reverted my edits.

When this experiment ends, I don't have a plan for that yet. User input might help.

This is where I make notes of decisions that may motivate me to do edits in places. It should include both inputs and outputs and what kind of &quot;version&quot; of &quot;AI&quot;s/LLMs I'm using:
* [[/April 20th Experiment Notes|&quot;AI Notes&quot; for motivation purposes in this &quot;experiment&quot;]]

=== Defining the end goal ===

The end goal is supposed to make me make useful edits or being able to make edits or contributions on more than just only the projects I'm &quot;mainly&quot; interested in.

'''Success Criteria'''

* &quot;Did the AI's output lead me to make a useful edit on a page I wouldn't have thought about and/or chosen on my own?&quot;
** This question was modified by myself based on an AI's output(this part was generated by &quot;AI Mode&quot; on May 1, 2026)

== Coursera schedule and notes ==

Today April 16, 2026 my contributions contain a lot of spelling mistakes. They may be present other days too. You'll probably spot spelling mistakes all over.

My studying schedule as I've understood it so far(studying with my mother):

This schedule is not reliable(cause my studying partner keeps changing the time, which is not necessarily bad):

UTC TIME: 07:30 - 09:30 (2 hours a day, 6 hours a week)
* Monday
* Thursday
* Saturday

== I'm studying on Coursera and about their Terms of Use ==
'''Nothing here is legal advice'''. This is very important.
Nothing in this &quot;Wikisection&quot; constitutes legal advice! Please don't blindly follow my advice and if someone copies some parts of this text without providing context then they are responsible for what they share! If you have been tricked by scammers that's sad but I am NOT responsible for illegal activities.

* web.archive.org/web/20260325233813/https://www.coursera.org/about/terms

&quot;When you create your Coursera account, and when you subsequently use certain features, you must provide us with accurate and complete information, and you agree to update your information to keep it accurate and complete.&quot;

My interpretation of that is that on Coursera I have to provide a real name. There is a field for &quot;Full name&quot;(retrieved 2026-04-09 UTC YYYY-MM-DD). How does that correspond to these terms? It doesn't say &quot;Real name&quot; but even if it did, what if I choose a name for myself and I'd like to call myself ThinkingScience? Is it still accurate? 

They don't specify what I actually have to do, just based on my quote. It would be nice for me and other Coursera learners to know what is true. Is the privacy on Wikiversity better? I'd say it is because on Coursera we are forced to provide an email address to create an account. We are not forced to do that on Wikiversity, Wikidata etc.

== notes about this account ==

This account is an alternative account on a computer I don't trust. It should never be allowed to vote and if it does please block this account. Doubling down on this today at 2026-04-30!(intent unchanged)

It's an alt of [[User:Dekatriofovia]] which unfortunately I have to prove right now despite me being in a hurry...so I'll edit my account at Dekatriofovia at the same time almost and publish at the same time...so you know it's me.

The reason for this account is it's on a computer with a bigger screen so I can more easily read books and documents.

== a thing I did not regret(modified section title) ==

This may be blathering but it ends with another Wikilink where I will pass my &quot;idea&quot; through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics''' and through anything else that might be required before anything enters Draft space. The &quot;idea&quot; is &quot;'''The Neurodiversity-inspired idea'''&quot;.

[[Protoscience]] was an interesting read. I think it will be calming for me if my idea is proven to be pseudoscience cause I can stop worrying about it and leave it behind me. &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot;(in lack for a better name, for now) will not be published in main space, only in draft space.

[[Wikiversity:Original research]] made me think &quot;I may be way over my head&quot; (though I stumbled around a bit due to not knowing English at an advanced enough level...this parenthesis is about some unimportant trivia).

I'm gonna place everything regarding &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot; into draft space and pass it through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics'''(sorry for repeating myself) and anything else I can find and also ask the community here on Wikiversity what else to place it through.

I thought I was gonna create '''User:ThinkingScience/The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea'''(but turns out I was encouraged to create it in Draft: space ... (this paragraph has been modified. Edit history might keep the original). Here are my notes again which I wanted to link to [[User:ThinkingScience/ND Inspired Idea Notebook]]

'''Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea''' that probably is in line with &quot;be bold&quot;.

=== It happened, a small burden has been lifted ===

I posted to the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium]] https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Colloquium&amp;oldid=2805080

Thing may be archive in the future. I've lost many things that way.(but also re-discovered many things that landed in the archive that I had posted too!)

One week. One small burden lifted. It was the only way forward. I may have been driven insane otherwise or this is just a very bad day I'm having. Full of things that &quot;real life&quot; is demanding of me.

More specifically, this is what I posted [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Advice_needed:_A_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea/observation]]</text>
      <sha1>nev5igw52duhe5jlosuwoszl2rduoyf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807224</id>
      <parentid>2807220</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:27:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Main focus: my &quot;idea&quot; */ based on &quot;AI Mode&quot; I'm editing now live based on what I think is good to do, based on what I read from &quot;AI Mode&quot;... &quot;experiment&quot;</comment>
      <origin>2807224</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="8175" sha1="i5ymwojaxwbiqw607b99ge78xamfypz" xml:space="preserve">== Main focus: my &quot;idea&quot; ==

* This is my [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]]. There goes the &quot;main effort&quot; based on my other smaller effort in various places and also by using the methodology I one day hope I will make.
* [[User:ThinkingScience/ND_Inspired_Idea_Notebook|Daily Diary of ND Inspired Idea]]
* These are my course notes: [[User:ThinkingScience/Draftspace/Coursera]]

=== Secondary Goals ===

* Contribute to Wikiversity by understanding and improving on content:
** I begin with interpreting the [[Neurodiversity Movement]] by creating this subpage: [[User:ThinkingScience/Neurodiversity_Movement_Interpretation]]

== Taking responsibility for famous people or people to focus on in [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]] ==

I need to take responsibility for the choices I make. If any of my choices resulted in a harm to a real person I am responsible whether I agree or not to any blame being put on me.

This section may be moved to a sub-page if I think it starts getting too &quot;cluttered&quot; and later into more sub-pages if the list just grows and grows.

=== T ===

Taylor Swift. Why I chose Taylor Swift. I have watched interviews with her before. She is an interesting person to me. I discovered she is open about her creation process. I value that in human beings and that includes people I meet offline, in the &quot;real world&quot; but it will be a challenge for me to make video notes that are &quot;Do no harm&quot;. I may be &quot;way in over my head&quot;. Please help me if you think I'm doing something wrong. 

She has a dedicated follower base which may have a large influence. Maybe I'll suffer for this but keeping my &quot;idea&quot; locked inside &quot;my head&quot; I think will cause greater harm to me than good. I know what risk I am taking...or probably not but I gotta move forward or try to. Perhaps my fears are greater than real risks in reality but who knows?

== April 20th experiment, &quot;AI Decisions, sure. AI-generation NEVER&quot; ==

Starting today on April 20th after 08:46 UTC Time(I got UTC time on this computer where I'm so far only using this account), I'll begin by editing Wikiversity resources by being more encouraged by &quot;yeah, do that&quot; comments by Large Language Models.

Nothing of it will be &quot;AI-generated&quot; but the decisions I take: the reason for the decisions I take may be because of &quot;AI-generation&quot; but of course I will try to stay away from clear stupidity like if the AI-generation says &quot;jump off a cliff&quot;. An extreme example, but I wanted to make a point that I won't take any decision and I will question the &quot;AI/LLM&quot; if it suggests something that to me sounds insane.

If you see anything weird please comment on my talk page after you've reverted my edits.

When this experiment ends, I don't have a plan for that yet. User input might help.

This is where I make notes of decisions that may motivate me to do edits in places. It should include both inputs and outputs and what kind of &quot;version&quot; of &quot;AI&quot;s/LLMs I'm using:
* [[/April 20th Experiment Notes|&quot;AI Notes&quot; for motivation purposes in this &quot;experiment&quot;]]

=== Defining the end goal ===

The end goal is supposed to make me make useful edits or being able to make edits or contributions on more than just only the projects I'm &quot;mainly&quot; interested in.

'''Success Criteria'''

* &quot;Did the AI's output lead me to make a useful edit on a page I wouldn't have thought about and/or chosen on my own?&quot;
** This question was modified by myself based on an AI's output(this part was generated by &quot;AI Mode&quot; on May 1, 2026)

== Coursera schedule and notes ==

Today April 16, 2026 my contributions contain a lot of spelling mistakes. They may be present other days too. You'll probably spot spelling mistakes all over.

My studying schedule as I've understood it so far(studying with my mother):

This schedule is not reliable(cause my studying partner keeps changing the time, which is not necessarily bad):

UTC TIME: 07:30 - 09:30 (2 hours a day, 6 hours a week)
* Monday
* Thursday
* Saturday

== I'm studying on Coursera and about their Terms of Use ==
'''Nothing here is legal advice'''. This is very important.
Nothing in this &quot;Wikisection&quot; constitutes legal advice! Please don't blindly follow my advice and if someone copies some parts of this text without providing context then they are responsible for what they share! If you have been tricked by scammers that's sad but I am NOT responsible for illegal activities.

* web.archive.org/web/20260325233813/https://www.coursera.org/about/terms

&quot;When you create your Coursera account, and when you subsequently use certain features, you must provide us with accurate and complete information, and you agree to update your information to keep it accurate and complete.&quot;

My interpretation of that is that on Coursera I have to provide a real name. There is a field for &quot;Full name&quot;(retrieved 2026-04-09 UTC YYYY-MM-DD). How does that correspond to these terms? It doesn't say &quot;Real name&quot; but even if it did, what if I choose a name for myself and I'd like to call myself ThinkingScience? Is it still accurate? 

They don't specify what I actually have to do, just based on my quote. It would be nice for me and other Coursera learners to know what is true. Is the privacy on Wikiversity better? I'd say it is because on Coursera we are forced to provide an email address to create an account. We are not forced to do that on Wikiversity, Wikidata etc.

== notes about this account ==

This account is an alternative account on a computer I don't trust. It should never be allowed to vote and if it does please block this account. Doubling down on this today at 2026-04-30!(intent unchanged)

It's an alt of [[User:Dekatriofovia]] which unfortunately I have to prove right now despite me being in a hurry...so I'll edit my account at Dekatriofovia at the same time almost and publish at the same time...so you know it's me.

The reason for this account is it's on a computer with a bigger screen so I can more easily read books and documents.

== a thing I did not regret(modified section title) ==

This may be blathering but it ends with another Wikilink where I will pass my &quot;idea&quot; through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics''' and through anything else that might be required before anything enters Draft space. The &quot;idea&quot; is &quot;'''The Neurodiversity-inspired idea'''&quot;.

[[Protoscience]] was an interesting read. I think it will be calming for me if my idea is proven to be pseudoscience cause I can stop worrying about it and leave it behind me. &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot;(in lack for a better name, for now) will not be published in main space, only in draft space.

[[Wikiversity:Original research]] made me think &quot;I may be way over my head&quot; (though I stumbled around a bit due to not knowing English at an advanced enough level...this parenthesis is about some unimportant trivia).

I'm gonna place everything regarding &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot; into draft space and pass it through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics'''(sorry for repeating myself) and anything else I can find and also ask the community here on Wikiversity what else to place it through.

I thought I was gonna create '''User:ThinkingScience/The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea'''(but turns out I was encouraged to create it in Draft: space ... (this paragraph has been modified. Edit history might keep the original). Here are my notes again which I wanted to link to [[User:ThinkingScience/ND Inspired Idea Notebook]]

'''Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea''' that probably is in line with &quot;be bold&quot;.

=== It happened, a small burden has been lifted ===

I posted to the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium]] https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Colloquium&amp;oldid=2805080

Thing may be archive in the future. I've lost many things that way.(but also re-discovered many things that landed in the archive that I had posted too!)

One week. One small burden lifted. It was the only way forward. I may have been driven insane otherwise or this is just a very bad day I'm having. Full of things that &quot;real life&quot; is demanding of me.

More specifically, this is what I posted [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Advice_needed:_A_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea/observation]]</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>2807356</id>
      <parentid>2807224</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:55:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Secondary Goals */ This is different from my project subpage for prompt history and this is general for all prompts...</comment>
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      <text bytes="8410" sha1="2l6ap8yw0qwep2uaoi7adu0972jojoc" xml:space="preserve">== Main focus: my &quot;idea&quot; ==

* This is my [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]]. There goes the &quot;main effort&quot; based on my other smaller effort in various places and also by using the methodology I one day hope I will make.
* [[User:ThinkingScience/ND_Inspired_Idea_Notebook|Daily Diary of ND Inspired Idea]]
* These are my course notes: [[User:ThinkingScience/Draftspace/Coursera]]

=== Secondary Goals ===

These are secondary goals in no particular order:

* Contribute to Wikiversity by understanding and improving on content:
** I begin with interpreting the [[Neurodiversity Movement]] by creating this subpage: [[User:ThinkingScience/Neurodiversity_Movement_Interpretation]]
* Documenting all &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; inputs and outputs related to a particular action:
** [[User:ThinkingScience/All General AI Prompt History Archive|All General AI Prompt History Archive]]

== Taking responsibility for famous people or people to focus on in [[Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea]] ==

I need to take responsibility for the choices I make. If any of my choices resulted in a harm to a real person I am responsible whether I agree or not to any blame being put on me.

This section may be moved to a sub-page if I think it starts getting too &quot;cluttered&quot; and later into more sub-pages if the list just grows and grows.

=== T ===

Taylor Swift. Why I chose Taylor Swift. I have watched interviews with her before. She is an interesting person to me. I discovered she is open about her creation process. I value that in human beings and that includes people I meet offline, in the &quot;real world&quot; but it will be a challenge for me to make video notes that are &quot;Do no harm&quot;. I may be &quot;way in over my head&quot;. Please help me if you think I'm doing something wrong. 

She has a dedicated follower base which may have a large influence. Maybe I'll suffer for this but keeping my &quot;idea&quot; locked inside &quot;my head&quot; I think will cause greater harm to me than good. I know what risk I am taking...or probably not but I gotta move forward or try to. Perhaps my fears are greater than real risks in reality but who knows?

== April 20th experiment, &quot;AI Decisions, sure. AI-generation NEVER&quot; ==

Starting today on April 20th after 08:46 UTC Time(I got UTC time on this computer where I'm so far only using this account), I'll begin by editing Wikiversity resources by being more encouraged by &quot;yeah, do that&quot; comments by Large Language Models.

Nothing of it will be &quot;AI-generated&quot; but the decisions I take: the reason for the decisions I take may be because of &quot;AI-generation&quot; but of course I will try to stay away from clear stupidity like if the AI-generation says &quot;jump off a cliff&quot;. An extreme example, but I wanted to make a point that I won't take any decision and I will question the &quot;AI/LLM&quot; if it suggests something that to me sounds insane.

If you see anything weird please comment on my talk page after you've reverted my edits.

When this experiment ends, I don't have a plan for that yet. User input might help.

This is where I make notes of decisions that may motivate me to do edits in places. It should include both inputs and outputs and what kind of &quot;version&quot; of &quot;AI&quot;s/LLMs I'm using:
* [[/April 20th Experiment Notes|&quot;AI Notes&quot; for motivation purposes in this &quot;experiment&quot;]]

=== Defining the end goal ===

The end goal is supposed to make me make useful edits or being able to make edits or contributions on more than just only the projects I'm &quot;mainly&quot; interested in.

'''Success Criteria'''

* &quot;Did the AI's output lead me to make a useful edit on a page I wouldn't have thought about and/or chosen on my own?&quot;
** This question was modified by myself based on an AI's output(this part was generated by &quot;AI Mode&quot; on May 1, 2026)

== Coursera schedule and notes ==

Today April 16, 2026 my contributions contain a lot of spelling mistakes. They may be present other days too. You'll probably spot spelling mistakes all over.

My studying schedule as I've understood it so far(studying with my mother):

This schedule is not reliable(cause my studying partner keeps changing the time, which is not necessarily bad):

UTC TIME: 07:30 - 09:30 (2 hours a day, 6 hours a week)
* Monday
* Thursday
* Saturday

== I'm studying on Coursera and about their Terms of Use ==
'''Nothing here is legal advice'''. This is very important.
Nothing in this &quot;Wikisection&quot; constitutes legal advice! Please don't blindly follow my advice and if someone copies some parts of this text without providing context then they are responsible for what they share! If you have been tricked by scammers that's sad but I am NOT responsible for illegal activities.

* web.archive.org/web/20260325233813/https://www.coursera.org/about/terms

&quot;When you create your Coursera account, and when you subsequently use certain features, you must provide us with accurate and complete information, and you agree to update your information to keep it accurate and complete.&quot;

My interpretation of that is that on Coursera I have to provide a real name. There is a field for &quot;Full name&quot;(retrieved 2026-04-09 UTC YYYY-MM-DD). How does that correspond to these terms? It doesn't say &quot;Real name&quot; but even if it did, what if I choose a name for myself and I'd like to call myself ThinkingScience? Is it still accurate? 

They don't specify what I actually have to do, just based on my quote. It would be nice for me and other Coursera learners to know what is true. Is the privacy on Wikiversity better? I'd say it is because on Coursera we are forced to provide an email address to create an account. We are not forced to do that on Wikiversity, Wikidata etc.

== notes about this account ==

This account is an alternative account on a computer I don't trust. It should never be allowed to vote and if it does please block this account. Doubling down on this today at 2026-04-30!(intent unchanged)

It's an alt of [[User:Dekatriofovia]] which unfortunately I have to prove right now despite me being in a hurry...so I'll edit my account at Dekatriofovia at the same time almost and publish at the same time...so you know it's me.

The reason for this account is it's on a computer with a bigger screen so I can more easily read books and documents.

== a thing I did not regret(modified section title) ==

This may be blathering but it ends with another Wikilink where I will pass my &quot;idea&quot; through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics''' and through anything else that might be required before anything enters Draft space. The &quot;idea&quot; is &quot;'''The Neurodiversity-inspired idea'''&quot;.

[[Protoscience]] was an interesting read. I think it will be calming for me if my idea is proven to be pseudoscience cause I can stop worrying about it and leave it behind me. &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot;(in lack for a better name, for now) will not be published in main space, only in draft space.

[[Wikiversity:Original research]] made me think &quot;I may be way over my head&quot; (though I stumbled around a bit due to not knowing English at an advanced enough level...this parenthesis is about some unimportant trivia).

I'm gonna place everything regarding &quot;The Neurodiversity-inspired idea&quot; into draft space and pass it through '''Wikiversity:Research ethics'''(sorry for repeating myself) and anything else I can find and also ask the community here on Wikiversity what else to place it through.

I thought I was gonna create '''User:ThinkingScience/The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea'''(but turns out I was encouraged to create it in Draft: space ... (this paragraph has been modified. Edit history might keep the original). Here are my notes again which I wanted to link to [[User:ThinkingScience/ND Inspired Idea Notebook]]

'''Draft:The Neurodiversity-inspired Idea''' that probably is in line with &quot;be bold&quot;.

=== It happened, a small burden has been lifted ===

I posted to the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium]] https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Colloquium&amp;oldid=2805080

Thing may be archive in the future. I've lost many things that way.(but also re-discovered many things that landed in the archive that I had posted too!)

One week. One small burden lifted. It was the only way forward. I may have been driven insane otherwise or this is just a very bad day I'm having. Full of things that &quot;real life&quot; is demanding of me.

More specifically, this is what I posted [[Wikiversity:Colloquium#Advice_needed:_A_Neurodiversity-inspired_Idea/observation]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Juandev</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>328676</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807367</id>
      <parentid>2804184</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T10:42:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Is it ok for me to do a &quot;:&quot; in front of my talk page posts = Accessibility */ new section</comment>
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      <text bytes="2741" sha1="2c6w26gcznrhe5hzinnbv9l6aaeqily" xml:space="preserve">{{User talk:Juandev/Archive navigation}}

== Do you have to manually archive your talk page each time or is it set to automatic? ==

Is there something I can do as a non-admin to archive my talk page automatically or manually? Also do you or does a system module regularly delete the edit history on your talk page? I only saw 2 dates from 2026 while on your archived talk page there are things from 2020 too and earlier. [[User:Dekatriofovia|Dekatriofovia]] ([[User talk:Dekatriofovia|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dekatriofovia|contribs]]) 11:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC)

:Hi, you have to do it manualy. But let set in few conservations and do it time to time, no need to do it after each conservation. You can do it by moving your talk page to the new name @[[User:Dekatriofovia|Dekatriofovia]] or by copy and pasting its source. The history is never deleated all information in it is stored and publically avalilable. [[User:Juandev|Juandev]] ([[User talk:Juandev|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Juandev|contribs]]) 18:10, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

== Is it ok for me to do a &quot;:&quot; in front of my talk page posts = Accessibility ==

I find it hard to read texts that looks like 1 paragraph where multiple people speak in the same paragraph. I added the &quot;:&quot; today but I'd like to ask if this is ok or if I should stop this new behavior. Is there a better way?

I find it readable but I find it hard to figure out &quot;who said what&quot; and that makes me feel it is harder to engage so most likely as a workaround if it's not ok to use &quot;:&quot; most probably the use of &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; will just expand and expand for both me and everyone who has &quot;learning disabilities&quot;(I've never had them officially diagnosed though, unless &quot;autism as a learning disability&quot; is a thing cause I was diagnosed Asperger's which now is known as &quot;autism&quot;/&quot;ASD&quot;)

One more question: would it be ok with you if I ever asked a &quot;Quasi-AI&quot; to generate a 100% &quot;Quasi-AI&quot;-response/-question to you on your talk page?
If yes do you have an amount of max amount of words you'd like that non-human-generated text to have on your talk page so your time is saved not having to read large &quot;essays&quot; of text?

If no to the last question: 
Is there a max amount of text you'd like me to aim for when posting on your talk page?

This text was posted with 100% human text but a question regarding &quot;judgement&quot; was made asking &quot;AI Mode&quot; by Google if it would be ok to &quot;post the text above this paragraph&quot; where it partly said {{quote|Verdict: Go ahead and post it! It shows you care about the community rules and his personal time.}} [[User:ThinkingScience|ThinkingScience]] ([[User talk:ThinkingScience|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/ThinkingScience|contribs]]) 10:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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|Date=2026-05-02
|Author=Young W. Lim
|Permission={{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}
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== Licensing ==
{{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}</text>
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|Date=2026-04-28
|Author=Young W. Lim
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== Licensing ==
{{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User:Atcovi/OGM &amp; Suicide/The Paper</title>
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      <text bytes="2917" sha1="eftvfzzn67t9bf6of4ae44lxbvu5j69" xml:space="preserve">==Introduction==
'''[[w:Overgeneral_autobiographical_memory|Overgeneral autobiographical memory]]''' (OGM) describes a reduced ability to recall specific events in one's autobiographical memory. For example, one may remember attending a birthday party at some point in their life, but they could not uniquely recall a specific instance of attending a birthday party. OGM has been empirically associated with depression, with depressed individuals reporting higher levels of OGM than non-depressed individuals&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Sumner|first=Jennifer A.|last2=Griffith|first2=James W.|last3=Mineka|first3=Susan|date=2010-07|title=Overgeneral autobiographical memory as a predictor of the course of depression: a meta-analysis|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2878838/|journal=Behaviour Research and Therapy|volume=48|issue=7|pages=614–625|doi=10.1016/j.brat.2010.03.013|issn=1873-622X|pmc=2878838|pmid=20399418}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Given the association of depression and suicidal ideation&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chachamovich|first=Eduardo|last2=Stefanello|first2=Sabrina|last3=Botega|first3=Neury|last4=Turecki|first4=Gustavo|date=2009-05|title=[Which are the recent clinical findings regarding the association between depression and suicide?]|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19565147|journal=Revista Brasileira De Psiquiatria (Sao Paulo, Brazil: 1999)|volume=31 Suppl 1|pages=S18–25|doi=10.1590/s1516-44462009000500004|issn=1516-4446|pmid=19565147}}&lt;/ref&gt;, utilizing suicide models, such as the '''Integrated Motivational-Volitional (IMV) model''', provides a theoretical cognitive framework to map and increase understanding of where OGM may fit in the escalation to suicidal ideation and/or suicide.

The IMV model portrays suicidal behavior as an escalating, behavioral process divided into three phases: pre-motivational phase, motivational phase, and volitional phase. The motivational phase is characterized by suicidal ideation formation, where feelings of entrapment (described as a &quot;proximal [predictor] of suicidal ideation&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=O'Connor|first=Rory C.|last2=Kirtley|first2=Olivia J.|date=2018-09-05|title=The integrated motivational-volitional model of suicidal behaviour|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6053985/|journal=Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences|volume=373|issue=1754|pages=20170268|doi=10.1098/rstb.2017.0268|issn=1471-2970|pmc=6053985|pmid=30012735}}&lt;/ref&gt;), threats to self moderators (such as poor problem-solving abilities and brooding), and motivational moderators (such as thwarted belongingness and perceived burdensomeness), may lead to the changeover to the volitional phase, where evident...

==OGM as Vulnerability==
==Mechanisms==
==OGM → Suicidal ideation (CORE)==
==Contradictions / Nuances==
==Conclusion==

== References ==
{{Reflist}}
[[Category:Atcovi/OGM &amp; Suicide Poster]]</text>
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    <revision>
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        <username>Atcovi</username>
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      <text bytes="3835" sha1="0rbc52os6qhgxcwniixw5sdarfp324m" xml:space="preserve">==Introduction==
'''[[w:Overgeneral_autobiographical_memory|Overgeneral autobiographical memory]]''' (OGM) describes a reduced ability to recall specific events in one's autobiographical memory. For example, one may remember attending a birthday party at some point in their life, but they could not uniquely recall a specific instance of attending a birthday party. OGM has been empirically associated with depression, with depressed individuals reporting higher levels of OGM than non-depressed individuals&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Sumner|first=Jennifer A.|last2=Griffith|first2=James W.|last3=Mineka|first3=Susan|date=2010-07|title=Overgeneral autobiographical memory as a predictor of the course of depression: a meta-analysis|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2878838/|journal=Behaviour Research and Therapy|volume=48|issue=7|pages=614–625|doi=10.1016/j.brat.2010.03.013|issn=1873-622X|pmc=2878838|pmid=20399418}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Given the association of depression and suicidal ideation&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chachamovich|first=Eduardo|last2=Stefanello|first2=Sabrina|last3=Botega|first3=Neury|last4=Turecki|first4=Gustavo|date=2009-05|title=[Which are the recent clinical findings regarding the association between depression and suicide?]|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19565147|journal=Revista Brasileira De Psiquiatria (Sao Paulo, Brazil: 1999)|volume=31 Suppl 1|pages=S18–25|doi=10.1590/s1516-44462009000500004|issn=1516-4446|pmid=19565147}}&lt;/ref&gt;, utilizing suicide models, such as the '''Integrated Motivational-Volitional (IMV) model''', provides a theoretical cognitive framework to map and increase understanding of where OGM may fit in the escalation to suicidal ideation and/or suicide.

The IMV model portrays suicidal behavior as an escalating, behavioral process divided into three phases: pre-motivational phase, motivational phase, and volitional phase. The motivational phase is characterized by suicidal ideation formation, where feelings of entrapment (described as a &quot;proximal [predictor] of suicidal ideation&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=O'Connor|first=Rory C.|last2=Kirtley|first2=Olivia J.|date=2018-09-05|title=The integrated motivational-volitional model of suicidal behaviour|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6053985/|journal=Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences|volume=373|issue=1754|pages=20170268|doi=10.1098/rstb.2017.0268|issn=1471-2970|pmc=6053985|pmid=30012735}}&lt;/ref&gt;), threats to self moderators (such as poor problem-solving abilities and brooding), and motivational moderators (such as thwarted belongingness and perceived burdensomeness) may transition the individual to the volitional phase. When looking at the IMV model and assessing where OGM could play a part in the transition to suicidal ideation, OGM could restrict problem-solving capabilities and impede taking from past experiences, leading to hopelessness&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Jiang|first=Wen|last2=Hu|first2=Guangtao|last3=Zhang|first3=Jingxuan|last4=Chen|first4=Ken|last5=Fan|first5=Dongni|last6=Feng|first6=Zhengzhi|date=2020-10-12|title=Distinct effects of over-general autobiographical memory on suicidal ideation among depressed and healthy people|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|journal=BMC Psychiatry|language=en|volume=20|issue=1|pages=501|doi=10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|issn=1471-244X|pmc=7549224|pmid=33046032}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://doi.org/10.1017/9781316563205|title=The Neuroscience of Suicidal Behavior|last=van Heeringen|first=Kees|date=2018-08-23|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-316-56320-5}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

==OGM as Vulnerability==
==Mechanisms==
==OGM → Suicidal ideation (CORE)==
==Contradictions / Nuances==
==Conclusion==

== References ==
{{Reflist}}
[[Category:Atcovi/OGM &amp; Suicide Poster]]</text>
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      <text bytes="3883" sha1="jbbpykosnkx16g6dnrtq16prslbzx60" xml:space="preserve">==Introduction==
'''[[w:Overgeneral_autobiographical_memory|Overgeneral autobiographical memory]]''' (OGM) describes a reduced ability to recall specific events in one's autobiographical memory. For example, one may remember attending a birthday party at some point in their life, but they could not uniquely recall a specific instance of attending a birthday party. OGM has been empirically associated with depression, with depressed individuals reporting higher levels of OGM than non-depressed individuals&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Sumner|first=Jennifer A.|last2=Griffith|first2=James W.|last3=Mineka|first3=Susan|date=2010-07|title=Overgeneral autobiographical memory as a predictor of the course of depression: a meta-analysis|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2878838/|journal=Behaviour Research and Therapy|volume=48|issue=7|pages=614–625|doi=10.1016/j.brat.2010.03.013|issn=1873-622X|pmc=2878838|pmid=20399418}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Given the association of depression and suicidal ideation&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chachamovich|first=Eduardo|last2=Stefanello|first2=Sabrina|last3=Botega|first3=Neury|last4=Turecki|first4=Gustavo|date=2009-05|title=[Which are the recent clinical findings regarding the association between depression and suicide?]|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19565147|journal=Revista Brasileira De Psiquiatria (Sao Paulo, Brazil: 1999)|volume=31 Suppl 1|pages=S18–25|doi=10.1590/s1516-44462009000500004|issn=1516-4446|pmid=19565147}}&lt;/ref&gt;, utilizing suicide models, such as the '''Integrated Motivational-Volitional (IMV) model''', provides a theoretical cognitive framework to increase understanding of where OGM may fit in the escalation to suicidal ideation and/or suicide.

The IMV model portrays suicidal behavior as an escalating, behavioral process divided into three phases: pre-motivational phase, motivational phase, and volitional phase. The motivational phase is characterized by suicidal ideation formation, where feelings of entrapment (described as a &quot;proximal [predictor] of suicidal ideation&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=O'Connor|first=Rory C.|last2=Kirtley|first2=Olivia J.|date=2018-09-05|title=The integrated motivational-volitional model of suicidal behaviour|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6053985/|journal=Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences|volume=373|issue=1754|pages=20170268|doi=10.1098/rstb.2017.0268|issn=1471-2970|pmc=6053985|pmid=30012735}}&lt;/ref&gt;), threats to self moderators (such as poor problem-solving abilities and brooding), and motivational moderators (such as thwarted belongingness and perceived burdensomeness) may transition the individual to the volitional phase. When looking at the IMV model and assessing where OGM could play a part in the transition to suicidal ideation, OGM may impair problem-solving capabilities and the ability to learn from the past through poor specific retrieval of specific past experiences, leading to hopelessness&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Jiang|first=Wen|last2=Hu|first2=Guangtao|last3=Zhang|first3=Jingxuan|last4=Chen|first4=Ken|last5=Fan|first5=Dongni|last6=Feng|first6=Zhengzhi|date=2020-10-12|title=Distinct effects of over-general autobiographical memory on suicidal ideation among depressed and healthy people|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|journal=BMC Psychiatry|language=en|volume=20|issue=1|pages=501|doi=10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|issn=1471-244X|pmc=7549224|pmid=33046032}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://doi.org/10.1017/9781316563205|title=The Neuroscience of Suicidal Behavior|last=van Heeringen|first=Kees|date=2018-08-23|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-316-56320-5}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

==OGM as Vulnerability==
==Mechanisms==
==OGM → Suicidal ideation (CORE)==
==Contradictions / Nuances==
==Conclusion==

== References ==
{{Reflist}}
[[Category:Atcovi/OGM &amp; Suicide Poster]]</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>2807235</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Atcovi</username>
        <id>276019</id>
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      <comment>/* Introduction */</comment>
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      <text bytes="3835" sha1="jc6avxte2zoajutk9gnkxv8u4xxu338" xml:space="preserve">==Introduction==
'''[[w:Overgeneral_autobiographical_memory|Overgeneral autobiographical memory]]''' (OGM) describes a reduced ability to recall specific events in one's autobiographical memory. For example, one may remember attending a birthday party at some point in their life, but they could not uniquely recall a specific instance of attending a birthday party. OGM has been empirically associated with depression, with depressed individuals reporting higher levels of OGM than non-depressed individuals&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Sumner|first=Jennifer A.|last2=Griffith|first2=James W.|last3=Mineka|first3=Susan|date=2010-07|title=Overgeneral autobiographical memory as a predictor of the course of depression: a meta-analysis|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2878838/|journal=Behaviour Research and Therapy|volume=48|issue=7|pages=614–625|doi=10.1016/j.brat.2010.03.013|issn=1873-622X|pmc=2878838|pmid=20399418}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Given the association of depression and suicidal ideation&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chachamovich|first=Eduardo|last2=Stefanello|first2=Sabrina|last3=Botega|first3=Neury|last4=Turecki|first4=Gustavo|date=2009-05|title=[Which are the recent clinical findings regarding the association between depression and suicide?]|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19565147|journal=Revista Brasileira De Psiquiatria (Sao Paulo, Brazil: 1999)|volume=31 Suppl 1|pages=S18–25|doi=10.1590/s1516-44462009000500004|issn=1516-4446|pmid=19565147}}&lt;/ref&gt;, utilizing suicide models, such as the '''Integrated Motivational-Volitional (IMV) model''', provides a theoretical cognitive framework to increase understanding of where OGM may fit in the escalation to suicidal ideation and/or suicide.

The IMV model portrays suicidal behavior as an escalating, behavioral process divided into three phases: pre-motivational phase, motivational phase, and volitional phase. The motivational phase is characterized by suicidal ideation formation, where feelings of entrapment (described as a &quot;proximal [predictor] of suicidal ideation&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=O'Connor|first=Rory C.|last2=Kirtley|first2=Olivia J.|date=2018-09-05|title=The integrated motivational-volitional model of suicidal behaviour|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6053985/|journal=Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences|volume=373|issue=1754|pages=20170268|doi=10.1098/rstb.2017.0268|issn=1471-2970|pmc=6053985|pmid=30012735}}&lt;/ref&gt;), poor problem-solving abilities, brooding, and interpersonal vulnerabilities (thwarted belongingness and perceived burdensomeness) may transition the individual to the volitional phase. When looking at the IMV model and assessing where OGM could play a part in the transition to suicidal ideation, OGM may impair problem-solving capabilities and the ability to learn from the past through reduced retrieval of specific past experiences, leading to hopelessness&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Jiang|first=Wen|last2=Hu|first2=Guangtao|last3=Zhang|first3=Jingxuan|last4=Chen|first4=Ken|last5=Fan|first5=Dongni|last6=Feng|first6=Zhengzhi|date=2020-10-12|title=Distinct effects of over-general autobiographical memory on suicidal ideation among depressed and healthy people|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|journal=BMC Psychiatry|language=en|volume=20|issue=1|pages=501|doi=10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|issn=1471-244X|pmc=7549224|pmid=33046032}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://doi.org/10.1017/9781316563205|title=The Neuroscience of Suicidal Behavior|last=van Heeringen|first=Kees|date=2018-08-23|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-316-56320-5}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

==OGM as Vulnerability==
==Mechanisms==
==OGM → Suicidal ideation (CORE)==
==Contradictions / Nuances==
==Conclusion==

== References ==
{{Reflist}}
[[Category:Atcovi/OGM &amp; Suicide Poster]]</text>
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    <revision>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Atcovi</username>
        <id>276019</id>
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      <text bytes="4529" sha1="lugbuts80wpk7ygm6wqpws1gcwcffjo" xml:space="preserve">''Better translated as the &quot;thinking space&quot; vs. an actual paper.''

''What we doing?'' Integrating OGM → suicidal ideation within a structured model (IMV + mechanisms).

==Introduction==
'''[[w:Overgeneral_autobiographical_memory|Overgeneral autobiographical memory]]''' (OGM) describes a reduced ability to recall specific events in one's autobiographical memory. For example, one may remember attending a birthday party at some point in their life, but they could not uniquely recall a specific instance of attending a birthday party. OGM has been empirically associated with depression, with depressed individuals reporting higher levels of OGM than non-depressed individuals&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Sumner|first=Jennifer A.|last2=Griffith|first2=James W.|last3=Mineka|first3=Susan|date=2010-07|title=Overgeneral autobiographical memory as a predictor of the course of depression: a meta-analysis|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2878838/|journal=Behaviour Research and Therapy|volume=48|issue=7|pages=614–625|doi=10.1016/j.brat.2010.03.013|issn=1873-622X|pmc=2878838|pmid=20399418}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Given the association of depression and suicidal ideation&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chachamovich|first=Eduardo|last2=Stefanello|first2=Sabrina|last3=Botega|first3=Neury|last4=Turecki|first4=Gustavo|date=2009-05|title=[Which are the recent clinical findings regarding the association between depression and suicide?]|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19565147|journal=Revista Brasileira De Psiquiatria (Sao Paulo, Brazil: 1999)|volume=31 Suppl 1|pages=S18–25|doi=10.1590/s1516-44462009000500004|issn=1516-4446|pmid=19565147}}&lt;/ref&gt;, utilizing suicide models, such as the '''Integrated Motivational-Volitional (IMV) model''', provides a theoretical cognitive framework to increase understanding of where OGM may fit in the escalation to suicidal ideation and/or suicide.

The IMV model portrays suicidal behavior as an escalating, behavioral process divided into three phases: pre-motivational phase, motivational phase, and volitional phase. The motivational phase is characterized by suicidal ideation formation, where feelings of entrapment (described as a &quot;proximal [predictor] of suicidal ideation&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=O'Connor|first=Rory C.|last2=Kirtley|first2=Olivia J.|date=2018-09-05|title=The integrated motivational-volitional model of suicidal behaviour|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6053985/|journal=Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences|volume=373|issue=1754|pages=20170268|doi=10.1098/rstb.2017.0268|issn=1471-2970|pmc=6053985|pmid=30012735}}&lt;/ref&gt;), poor problem-solving abilities, brooding, and interpersonal vulnerabilities (thwarted belongingness and perceived burdensomeness) may transition the individual to the volitional phase. When looking at the IMV model and assessing where OGM could play a part in the transition to suicidal ideation, OGM may impair problem-solving capabilities and the ability to learn from the past through reduced retrieval of specific past experiences, leading to hopelessness&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Jiang|first=Wen|last2=Hu|first2=Guangtao|last3=Zhang|first3=Jingxuan|last4=Chen|first4=Ken|last5=Fan|first5=Dongni|last6=Feng|first6=Zhengzhi|date=2020-10-12|title=Distinct effects of over-general autobiographical memory on suicidal ideation among depressed and healthy people|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|journal=BMC Psychiatry|language=en|volume=20|issue=1|pages=501|doi=10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|issn=1471-244X|pmc=7549224|pmid=33046032}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://doi.org/10.1017/9781316563205|title=The Neuroscience of Suicidal Behavior|last=van Heeringen|first=Kees|date=2018-08-23|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-316-56320-5}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

The current literature aims to shed light on a neglected niche of suicide research: autobiographical memory. Despite the overwhelming research suggesting correlations between OGM and depression and suicidal ideation, research has not explored OGM's exact role in a cognitive, theoretical framework of suicidal ideation (specifically within the IMV model). By conducting a narrative review and integrating research on OGM's role in suicidal ideation, this paper furthers understanding on OGM's role in suicidal ideation. 

==OGM as Vulnerability==
==Mechanisms==
==OGM → Suicidal ideation (CORE)==
==Contradictions / Nuances==
==Conclusion==

== References ==
{{Reflist}}
[[Category:Atcovi/OGM &amp; Suicide Poster]]</text>
      <sha1>lugbuts80wpk7ygm6wqpws1gcwcffjo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807239</id>
      <parentid>2807238</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T14:31:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Atcovi</username>
        <id>276019</id>
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      <text bytes="4540" sha1="6lxdweoth13i0ja4dpzzdvh4cza42q5" xml:space="preserve">''Better translated as the &quot;thinking space&quot; vs. an actual paper.''

''What we doing?'' Integrating OGM → suicidal ideation within a structured model (IMV + mechanisms).

==Introduction==
'''[[w:Overgeneral_autobiographical_memory|Overgeneral autobiographical memory]]''' (OGM) describes a reduced ability to recall specific events in one's autobiographical memory. For example, one may remember attending a birthday party at some point in their life, but they could not uniquely recall a specific instance of attending a birthday party. OGM has been empirically associated with depression, with depressed individuals reporting higher levels of OGM than non-depressed individuals&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Sumner|first=Jennifer A.|last2=Griffith|first2=James W.|last3=Mineka|first3=Susan|date=2010-07|title=Overgeneral autobiographical memory as a predictor of the course of depression: a meta-analysis|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2878838/|journal=Behaviour Research and Therapy|volume=48|issue=7|pages=614–625|doi=10.1016/j.brat.2010.03.013|issn=1873-622X|pmc=2878838|pmid=20399418}}&lt;/ref&gt;. Given the association of depression and suicidal ideation&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chachamovich|first=Eduardo|last2=Stefanello|first2=Sabrina|last3=Botega|first3=Neury|last4=Turecki|first4=Gustavo|date=2009-05|title=[Which are the recent clinical findings regarding the association between depression and suicide?]|url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19565147|journal=Revista Brasileira De Psiquiatria (Sao Paulo, Brazil: 1999)|volume=31 Suppl 1|pages=S18–25|doi=10.1590/s1516-44462009000500004|issn=1516-4446|pmid=19565147}}&lt;/ref&gt;, utilizing suicide models, such as the '''Integrated Motivational-Volitional (IMV) model''', provides a theoretical cognitive framework to increase understanding of where OGM may fit in the escalation to suicidal ideation and/or suicide.

The IMV model portrays suicidal behavior as an escalating, behavioral process divided into three phases: pre-motivational phase, motivational phase, and volitional phase. The motivational phase is characterized by suicidal ideation formation, where feelings of entrapment (described as a &quot;proximal [predictor] of suicidal ideation&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=O'Connor|first=Rory C.|last2=Kirtley|first2=Olivia J.|date=2018-09-05|title=The integrated motivational-volitional model of suicidal behaviour|url=https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6053985/|journal=Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences|volume=373|issue=1754|pages=20170268|doi=10.1098/rstb.2017.0268|issn=1471-2970|pmc=6053985|pmid=30012735}}&lt;/ref&gt;), poor problem-solving abilities, brooding, and interpersonal vulnerabilities (thwarted belongingness and perceived burdensomeness) may transition the individual to the volitional phase. When looking at the IMV model and assessing where OGM could play a part in the transition to suicidal ideation, OGM may impair problem-solving capabilities and the ability to learn from the past through reduced retrieval of specific past experiences, leading to hopelessness&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Jiang|first=Wen|last2=Hu|first2=Guangtao|last3=Zhang|first3=Jingxuan|last4=Chen|first4=Ken|last5=Fan|first5=Dongni|last6=Feng|first6=Zhengzhi|date=2020-10-12|title=Distinct effects of over-general autobiographical memory on suicidal ideation among depressed and healthy people|url=https://doi.org/10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|journal=BMC Psychiatry|language=en|volume=20|issue=1|pages=501|doi=10.1186/s12888-020-02877-6|issn=1471-244X|pmc=7549224|pmid=33046032}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://doi.org/10.1017/9781316563205|title=The Neuroscience of Suicidal Behavior|last=van Heeringen|first=Kees|date=2018-08-23|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-316-56320-5}}&lt;/ref&gt;.

The current literature aims to shed light on a neglected niche of suicide research: autobiographical memory. Despite the overwhelming research suggesting correlations between OGM and depression and suicidal ideation, research has not thoroughly explored OGM's exact role in a cognitive, theoretical framework of suicidal ideation (specifically within the IMV model). By conducting a narrative review and integrating research on OGM's role in suicidal ideation, this paper furthers understanding on OGM's role in suicidal ideation. 

==OGM as Vulnerability==
==Mechanisms==
==OGM → Suicidal ideation (CORE)==
==Contradictions / Nuances==
==Conclusion==

== References ==
{{Reflist}}
[[Category:Atcovi/OGM &amp; Suicide Poster]]</text>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Bully Metric Metonic cycle</title>
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      <timestamp>2026-05-01T17:39:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
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      <text bytes="3661" sha1="qlj93kwwjml2934yzkpl8e8c29jfdwg" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
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        <username>CanonicalMormon</username>
        <id>2646631</id>
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      <text bytes="4079" sha1="3tnzjs37cxignlhoxl2s89laz1rq0wz" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)
|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3
|-

| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}


December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33) (-7)
8209 2800 DE08 (DE27) (+31)
8209 2801 5714 (56EC) (-40)
8209 2802 99E1 (99E4) (+3)
8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9) (+43)
8209 2804 55BB (558F) (-44)
8209 2805 9888 (988E) (+6)
8209 2806 DB55 (DB88) (+51)
8209 2807 5461 (542D) (-52)
8209 2808 972E (972E) (+0)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)
8209 280A 5308 (52CF) (-57)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>3tnzjs37cxignlhoxl2s89laz1rq0wz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807289</id>
      <parentid>2807285</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:36:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807289</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4129" sha1="e1js0yrjcyh17tw6q2f0yeonsi07j5l" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}


December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33) (-7)
8209 2800 DE08 (DE27) (+31)
8209 2801 5714 (56EC) (-40)
8209 2802 99E1 (99E4) (+3)
8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9) (+43)
8209 2804 55BB (558F) (-44)
8209 2805 9888 (988E) (+6)
8209 2806 DB55 (DB88) (+51)
8209 2807 5461 (542D) (-52)
8209 2808 972E (972E) (+0)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)
8209 280A 5308 (52CF) (-57)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>e1js0yrjcyh17tw6q2f0yeonsi07j5l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807290</id>
      <parentid>2807289</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:37:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807290</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4160" sha1="7wae61h0v34jhiokyfkkivwlo8lvn8p" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}


December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33) (-7)
8209 2800 DE08 (DE27) (+31)
8209 2801 5714 (56EC) (-40)
8209 2802 99E1 (99E4) (+3)
8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9) (+43)
8209 2804 55BB (558F) (-44)
8209 2805 9888 (988E) (+6)
8209 2806 DB55 (DB88) (+51)
8209 2807 5461 (542D) (-52)
8209 2808 972E (972E) (+0)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)
8209 280A 5308 (52CF) (-57)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>7wae61h0v34jhiokyfkkivwlo8lvn8p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807291</id>
      <parentid>2807290</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:37:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807291</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4166" sha1="54qmav545eg66wks9quhaxgx88jcigm" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}


December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33) (-7)
8209 2800 DE08 (DE27) (+31)
8209 2801 5714 (56EC) (-40)
8209 2802 99E1 (99E4) (+3)
8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9) (+43)
8209 2804 55BB (558F) (-44)
8209 2805 9888 (988E) (+6)
8209 2806 DB55 (DB88) (+51)
8209 2807 5461 (542D) (-52)
8209 2808 972E (972E) (+0)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)
8209 280A 5308 (52CF) (-57)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>54qmav545eg66wks9quhaxgx88jcigm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807292</id>
      <parentid>2807291</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:39:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807292</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4398" sha1="t1jdvila5q3f52nzvqwfsd0b70z655m" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}


December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 2802 99E1 (99E4) (+3)
8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9) (+43)
8209 2804 55BB (558F) (-44)
8209 2805 9888 (988E) (+6)
8209 2806 DB55 (DB88) (+51)
8209 2807 5461 (542D) (-52)
8209 2808 972E (972E) (+0)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)
8209 280A 5308 (52CF) (-57)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>t1jdvila5q3f52nzvqwfsd0b70z655m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807293</id>
      <parentid>2807292</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:40:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807293</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4401" sha1="oob0k96ziyy5cdzaa8n04lr0lw0czgy" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}


December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 2802 99E1 (99E4) (+3)
8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9) (+43)
8209 2804 55BB (558F) (-44)
8209 2805 9888 (988E) (+6)
8209 2806 DB55 (DB88) (+51)
8209 2807 5461 (542D) (-52)
8209 2808 972E (972E) (+0)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)
8209 280A 5308 (52CF) (-57)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>oob0k96ziyy5cdzaa8n04lr0lw0czgy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807294</id>
      <parentid>2807293</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:45:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807294</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="4401" sha1="kds2omsm4ood2srlim5vncwp7kg7imo" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6
|}


December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 2802 99E1 (99E4) (+3)
8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9) (+43)
8209 2804 55BB (558F) (-44)
8209 2805 9888 (988E) (+6)
8209 2806 DB55 (DB88) (+51)
8209 2807 5461 (542D) (-52)
8209 2808 972E (972E) (+0)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)
8209 280A 5308 (52CF) (-57)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>kds2omsm4ood2srlim5vncwp7kg7imo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807295</id>
      <parentid>2807294</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:54:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807295</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5265" sha1="ga9k36l21khyowzuhvbe27ywz5oqnsu" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>ga9k36l21khyowzuhvbe27ywz5oqnsu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807296</id>
      <parentid>2807295</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:56:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807296</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5292" sha1="g9bm41yl4mqzuuy5j9fd3d4s5xuz3b9" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold;&quot;
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>g9bm41yl4mqzuuy5j9fd3d4s5xuz3b9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807297</id>
      <parentid>2807296</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:57:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807297</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5318" sha1="ggpwjvnvy7929u1xk2t3rds8i0yzvco" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold;&quot;
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|-
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|-
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>ggpwjvnvy7929u1xk2t3rds8i0yzvco</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807298</id>
      <parentid>2807297</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:58:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807298</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5500" sha1="5ccisk7ae01hg29vy781l15qo7i9wuo" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold;&quot;
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|-
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>5ccisk7ae01hg29vy781l15qo7i9wuo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807299</id>
      <parentid>2807298</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T02:59:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807299</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5581" sha1="pybz4hxfxtetykk8lar14ll8r2lul7u" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold;&quot;
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold;&quot;
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot; | 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold;&quot;
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold;&quot;
| Year 19
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>pybz4hxfxtetykk8lar14ll8r2lul7u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807300</id>
      <parentid>2807299</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:02:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807300</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5446" sha1="h14v3fxj0dnl7j66bogs9nqui53a4fl" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>h14v3fxj0dnl7j66bogs9nqui53a4fl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807301</id>
      <parentid>2807300</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:04:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807301</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5418" sha1="e9n7hfwb5z3xvlh9lsi9awnjjgz84vb" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>e9n7hfwb5z3xvlh9lsi9awnjjgz84vb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807302</id>
      <parentid>2807301</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:06:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807302</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5390" sha1="rjm52aa66d0ugbnls2zcy1g2mcm50p0" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 8
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small;&quot;
| Year 11
| style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;&quot; | 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>rjm52aa66d0ugbnls2zcy1g2mcm50p0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807303</id>
      <parentid>2807302</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:15:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807303</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5180" sha1="2dps6zm4scj6uvifqgxr95cqvfjmvwg" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Metonic Alignment (19-Year Intervals)

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>2dps6zm4scj6uvifqgxr95cqvfjmvwg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807304</id>
      <parentid>2807303</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:18:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807304</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5205" sha1="9lfhvbcw2pd5e1grph68iprg0vte6o0" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Interval Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>9lfhvbcw2pd5e1grph68iprg0vte6o0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807305</id>
      <parentid>2807304</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:19:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807305</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5213" sha1="q6gg2rwo41045rnkkskaluh2g8bioc1" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>q6gg2rwo41045rnkkskaluh2g8bioc1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807306</id>
      <parentid>2807305</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:22:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807306</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7585" sha1="f8jvs07oefw2t0whx10ry56i29p2yvv" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}


]]

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Metonic Alignment Example ===

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>f8jvs07oefw2t0whx10ry56i29p2yvv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807307</id>
      <parentid>2807306</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:25:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807307</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7618" sha1="2b7twkjqtfoks27tgiwbj18hgs4vuhe" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.


== Metonic Alignment Example ==

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|right|500px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>2b7twkjqtfoks27tgiwbj18hgs4vuhe</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807308</id>
      <parentid>2807307</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:25:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807308</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7600" sha1="b90euvb3e2sr43v6pj1bw31vppav5mc" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.


== Metonic Alignment Example ==

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>b90euvb3e2sr43v6pj1bw31vppav5mc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807309</id>
      <parentid>2807308</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:25:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807309</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7606" sha1="nwrjthck53nb8kksh1jxsbq8ev00j0a" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.


== Metonic Alignment Example ==

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>nwrjthck53nb8kksh1jxsbq8ev00j0a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807310</id>
      <parentid>2807309</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:26:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807310</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7613" sha1="djpqgiqto8rw8hwr4ejxkvgy3bpqrfo" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.


== Metonic Alignment Example ==

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>djpqgiqto8rw8hwr4ejxkvgy3bpqrfo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807311</id>
      <parentid>2807310</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:26:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807311</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7620" sha1="bin31b5i6rryvy8j1p58l4j5usa5khh" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.


== Metonic Alignment Example ==

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|600 px| The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>bin31b5i6rryvy8j1p58l4j5usa5khh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807312</id>
      <parentid>2807311</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:28:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment Example */</comment>
      <origin>2807312</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7621" sha1="k9jcjxghnqge31wgv4nd9pf85gin0p5" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.


== Metonic Alignment Example ==

The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|600 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>k9jcjxghnqge31wgv4nd9pf85gin0p5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807313</id>
      <parentid>2807312</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:31:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807313</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7650" sha1="n8ros8o3dk4ugk56p47gqffk5dp73uu" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

== Metonic Alignment ==

The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

=== Dark North &lt;small&gt; B &lt;/small&gt;===

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|600 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>n8ros8o3dk4ugk56p47gqffk5dp73uu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807314</id>
      <parentid>2807313</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:32:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment */</comment>
      <origin>2807314</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7913" sha1="sddzi144p1fk47gxjamx2tkyjwc63ex" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

== Metonic Alignment ==

The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

=== Dark North (December Equinox New Moon) ===

The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|700 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>sddzi144p1fk47gxjamx2tkyjwc63ex</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807315</id>
      <parentid>2807314</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:33:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Equinox New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807315</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="7914" sha1="2ohdx183oknumeanw2558kq54jxlmro" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

== Metonic Alignment ==

The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon is during the solstice in one year, the subsequent year's solstice will see the Moon's phase advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift explains why the 8th and 11th years appear as near-matches in the accompanying image; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===

The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|700 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>2ohdx183oknumeanw2558kq54jxlmro</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807316</id>
      <parentid>2807315</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:37:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Metonic Alignment */</comment>
      <origin>2807316</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="6999" sha1="awti51vqx7ngryw1thehzli10viimj9" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. This historical cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

== Metonic Alignment ==

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===

The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|700 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Metonic Alignment Example V2 ==

The following table demonstrates the Metonic relationship. Every 19 years, the December Equinox and a New Moon occur at nearly the same position within the Bully hexadecimal cycle (the last four digits). 


{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)

As shown, despite a 38-year span, the &quot;drift&quot; between the solar equinox and the lunar phase is only a few Bully units. This precision demonstrates how the system’s 12-digit structure naturally captures ancient astronomical cycles.</text>
      <sha1>awti51vqx7ngryw1thehzli10viimj9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807318</id>
      <parentid>2807316</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:49:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807318</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5095" sha1="ply10i6xjvlb3y7t62t5q2fuu1yrdha" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, the subsequent year's Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|700 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>ply10i6xjvlb3y7t62t5q2fuu1yrdha</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807319</id>
      <parentid>2807318</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T03:50:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807319</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5100" sha1="bb1h1pa1r972gn0becri8tilohldi6s" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, the subsequent year's Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle'''. For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is closest to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|700 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>bb1h1pa1r972gn0becri8tilohldi6s</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807320</id>
      <parentid>2807319</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:00:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <origin>2807320</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5263" sha1="fjwo9znlaul2ggiyrpopx6et224nzz2" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. 

The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|700 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>fjwo9znlaul2ggiyrpopx6et224nzz2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807321</id>
      <parentid>2807320</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:02:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807321</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5261" sha1="0fukj3l65tkqk86x9vjfbd0nacpgpwf" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|700 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: Dark North December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>0fukj3l65tkqk86x9vjfbd0nacpgpwf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807322</id>
      <parentid>2807321</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:04:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807322</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5250" sha1="jop2v03010vdbx1cqdd3db9e3bwf3uq" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>jop2v03010vdbx1cqdd3db9e3bwf3uq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807323</id>
      <parentid>2807322</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:05:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807323</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5507" sha1="d7gfx03acvqmwg1e8i6rxesiocv96qy" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp &lt;br/&gt; December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>d7gfx03acvqmwg1e8i6rxesiocv96qy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807324</id>
      <parentid>2807323</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:08:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807324</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5359" sha1="batijjjdaviuafz33e348clxj1l4qmh" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox (New Moon)
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A (9B33)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>batijjjdaviuafz33e348clxj1l4qmh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807325</id>
      <parentid>2807324</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:10:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807325</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5393" sha1="pnjj2zbu7bwjydg51ts56ujiqay29kf" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>pnjj2zbu7bwjydg51ts56ujiqay29kf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807326</id>
      <parentid>2807325</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:11:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807326</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5397" sha1="22v7ktpijyijk2nxgnzsyzf3azvdvre" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|... 9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08 (DE27)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714 (56EC)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>22v7ktpijyijk2nxgnzsyzf3azvdvre</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807327</id>
      <parentid>2807326</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:12:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807327</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5423" sha1="s6ncjdmdzx9hcmr6w0a2eqia4v82a58" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|... 9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08}}
| {{mono|... DE27}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714}}
| {{mono|... 56EC}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1 (99E4)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE (DCD9)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB (558F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888 (988E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>s6ncjdmdzx9hcmr6w0a2eqia4v82a58</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807328</id>
      <parentid>2807327</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:16:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807328</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5475" sha1="s9coyoxao763xkh1ynm9qbm5670i8qa" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|... 9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08}}
| {{mono|... DE27}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714}}
| {{mono|... 56EC}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1}}
| {{mono|... 99E4}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE}}
| {{mono|... DCD9}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB}}
| {{mono|... 558F}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888}}
| {{mono|... 988E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55 (DB88)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461 (542D)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E (972E)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F)}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308 (52CF)}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>s9coyoxao763xkh1ynm9qbm5670i8qa</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807329</id>
      <parentid>2807328</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:21:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807329</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5541" sha1="qt5of2mrdyk3wdvw14pbrmdms4rr3kc" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. The following image and table demonstrate the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| 
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;
|+ style=&quot;font-size: 1.2em; font-weight: bold; margin-bottom: 10px;&quot; | Table 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|... 9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08}}
| {{mono|... DE27}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714}}
| {{mono|... 56EC}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1}}
| {{mono|... 99E4}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE}}
| {{mono|... DCD9}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB}}
| {{mono|... 558F}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888}}
| {{mono|... 988E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55}}
| {{mono|... DB88}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461}}
| {{mono|... 542D}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E}}
| {{mono|... 972E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2}}
| {{mono|... DA2F}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308}}
| {{mono|... 52CF}}

| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>qt5of2mrdyk3wdvw14pbrmdms4rr3kc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807330</id>
      <parentid>2807329</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:23:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807330</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5449" sha1="qwkeucqj7t5waliuvgoq60ffvu8b2vh" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. Figure 1 illustrates the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| Figure 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|... 9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08}}
| {{mono|... DE27}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714}}
| {{mono|... 56EC}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1}}
| {{mono|... 99E4}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE}}
| {{mono|... DCD9}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB}}
| {{mono|... 558F}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888}}
| {{mono|... 988E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55}}
| {{mono|... DB88}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461}}
| {{mono|... 542D}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E}}
| {{mono|... 972E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2}}
| {{mono|... DA2F}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308}}
| {{mono|... 52CF}}

| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>qwkeucqj7t5waliuvgoq60ffvu8b2vh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807331</id>
      <parentid>2807330</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:27:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807331</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5458" sha1="7hqjvsvmw14xsgtajfc1zlyk2z2x6zl" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. Figure 1 illustrates the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[:commons:File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| Figure 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|... 9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08}}
| {{mono|... DE27}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714}}
| {{mono|... 56EC}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1}}
| {{mono|... 99E4}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE}}
| {{mono|... DCD9}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB}}
| {{mono|... 558F}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888}}
| {{mono|... 988E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55}}
| {{mono|... DB88}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461}}
| {{mono|... 542D}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E}}
| {{mono|... 972E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2}}
| {{mono|... DA2F}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308}}
| {{mono|... 52CF}}

| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>7hqjvsvmw14xsgtajfc1zlyk2z2x6zl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807332</id>
      <parentid>2807331</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:28:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807332</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5457" sha1="sshxna9dfw6l73c3x4to8jedltvw3ng" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. Figure 1 illustrates the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[commons:File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| Figure 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|... 9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08}}
| {{mono|... DE27}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714}}
| {{mono|... 56EC}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1}}
| {{mono|... 99E4}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE}}
| {{mono|... DCD9}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB}}
| {{mono|... 558F}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888}}
| {{mono|... 988E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55}}
| {{mono|... DB88}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461}}
| {{mono|... 542D}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E}}
| {{mono|... 972E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2}}
| {{mono|... DA2F}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308}}
| {{mono|... 52CF}}

| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>sshxna9dfw6l73c3x4to8jedltvw3ng</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807333</id>
      <parentid>2807332</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T04:28:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Unitfreak</username>
        <id>695864</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) */</comment>
      <origin>2807333</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="5449" sha1="qwkeucqj7t5waliuvgoq60ffvu8b2vh" xml:space="preserve">[[Bully_Metric|Bully Metric Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Timestamps|Bully Metric Timestamps Main Page]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bully_Metric_Metonic_cycle|The Metonic Cycle in Bully Metric]]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Java_Bully.html Current Bully Timestamp (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;
[https://unitfreak.github.io/Bully-Row-Timestamps/Earth_Gravity_Calculator.html Earth Gravity Calculator (GitHub)]&lt;br /&gt;

The '''Metonic cycle''' is a period of approximately 19 solar years, after which the moon's phases recur on the same days of the year. There are also significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks.

This progression follows a predictable drift: whatever the phase of the Moon was during a particular day of the solar year, in the subsequent year, the Moon's phase will have advanced by slightly more than '''one-third of a cycle''' (approximately 7/19). For example, if a New Moon occurs during the December Solstice of 2014, the 2015 solstice will feature a '''Waxing Gibbous''' moon which is approximately a 7/19 increase in phase. And the 2016 solstice will feature a Third Quarter Moon which is 14/19 increase in phase.

This annual shift also results in the 8th and 11th years being near-matches; they represent intervals where the cumulative drift is close to a full-cycle integer, falling just short or just past a total &quot;reset&quot; of the lunar-solar alignment, which occurs every 19 years.

== The Metonic Cycle in Bully Timestamps ==
The Metonic cycle has a remarkably simple relationship with the Bully Timestamp System: the Metonic cycle completes in almost exactly the time it takes for the last four hexadecimal digits of a Bully timestamp to cycle three times.

In the Bully system, the last four digits represent an interval of &lt;math&gt;16^{4}&lt;/math&gt; units. Since each unit is 3,055 seconds, one full cycle of the last four digits equals:
:&lt;math&gt;65,536 \times 3,055 \text{ seconds} \approx 6.34 \text{ Julian years}&lt;/math&gt;

Three such cycles equal approximately '''19.03 Julian years''', aligning closely with the '''19.00 solar years''' of the traditional Metonic cycle. This relationship allows the Bully system to track complex lunar-solar patterns using simple hexadecimal increments.

=== Dark North (December Solstice New Moon) ===
The darkest nights in the Northern Hemisphere occur when the '''December Solstice''' coincides with a '''New Moon'''. While the Metonic cycle predicts this alignment every 19 years, there are significant &quot;near-matches&quot; at the 8th and 11th-year marks. Figure 1 illustrates the Metonic relationship over a period of one century, beginning with the December Solstice New Moon of 1995, and continuing to the December Solstice New Moon of 2109. 

[[File:Bully_Metric_Metonic_Cycle.png|thumb|center|650 px| Figure 1: December Equinox &lt;small&gt;(19-Year Metonic Alignment)&lt;/small&gt;
{| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center; width:100%; max-width:800px; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; border-collapse: collapse;&quot;

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Metonic Cycle
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Gregorian Year
! colspan=&quot;3&quot; style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Bully Timestamp

|- style=&quot;background-color: #eaecf0; font-weight: bold;&quot;
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | December Equinox
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | New Moon
! style=&quot;padding: 10px;&quot; | Delta

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 1995
| {{mono|8209 27FF 9B3A}}
| {{mono|... 9B33}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33;&quot; | −7

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2003
| {{mono|8209 2800 DE08}}
| {{mono|... DE27}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +31

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2006
| {{mono|8209 2801 5714}}
| {{mono|... 56EC}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -40

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2014
| {{mono|8209 2802 99E1}}
| {{mono|... 99E4}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +3

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2022
| {{mono|8209 2803 DCAE}}
| {{mono|... DCD9}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +43

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2025
| {{mono|8209 2804 55BB}}
| {{mono|... 558F}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -44

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2033
| {{mono|8209 2805 9888}}
| {{mono|... 988E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89;&quot; | +6

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2041
| {{mono|8209 2806 DB55}}
| {{mono|... DB88}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +51

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2044
| {{mono|8209 2807 5461}}
| {{mono|... 542D}}
| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -52

|- style=&quot;font-weight: bold; background-color: #f8f9fa;;&quot;
| Year 19
| 2052
| {{mono|8209 2808 972E}}
| {{mono|... 972E}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +0

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 8
| 2060
| {{mono|8209 2809 D9F2}}
| {{mono|... DA2F}}
| style=&quot;color: #00af89; font-weight: bold;&quot; | +61

|- style=&quot;font-size: small; background-color: #ffffff;&quot;
| Year 11
| 2063
| {{mono|8209 280A 5308}}
| {{mono|... 52CF}}

| style=&quot;color: #d33; font-weight: bold;&quot; | -57
|}
]]

== Edit ==

December Solstice (New Moon)
8209 280B 95D5 (95CD) (-8)
8209 2809 D9F2 (DA2F) (+61)</text>
      <sha1>qwkeucqj7t5waliuvgoq60ffvu8b2vh</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:ThinkingScience/April 20th Experiment Notes</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>329382</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807222</id>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:23:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>process, first &quot;AI Mode&quot; decision I'm taking in this transparent system I'm developing</comment>
      <origin>2807222</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="999" sha1="dmuv38g5yxauggdkhp44tbnd3kqob7o" xml:space="preserve">Idea is not to &quot;spam&quot; Wikiversity but instead focus on the output that the &quot;AI&quot; program got in its output that made an impression on me. For simplicity I could add anything that I read.

I will not include output that encourages &quot;megalomania&quot;, this &quot;AI Mode&quot; just giving me compliments and me just 'eating it all up without a care' unless it's related to an action I'm interested in taking.

* input: Let's take it into action. Can you suggest some wikiversity page for me to edit?
** I found the output uninteresting
* input: Any page on Wikiversity regarding rapport or neurodiversity?
** output: shows me Google search results instead
* input: I'm thinking https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Neurodiversity_Movement but I don't wanna modify it because I want to preserve the original knowing I may be &quot;crazy&quot; today and thus I suggest a subpage where I'll &quot;interpret&quot; the content and try to improve what the project is about
** output: it suggests I do that on my user page instead...so I'll do that.</text>
      <sha1>dmuv38g5yxauggdkhp44tbnd3kqob7o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807227</id>
      <parentid>2807222</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:35:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>This is work in progress</comment>
      <origin>2807227</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1125" sha1="k4pc1mdjoxwuzz2c1qgyxw2zicpjfwf" xml:space="preserve">Idea is not to &quot;spam&quot; Wikiversity but instead focus on the output that the &quot;AI&quot; program got in its output that made an impression on me. For simplicity I could add anything that I read.

I will not include output that encourages &quot;megalomania&quot;, this &quot;AI Mode&quot; just giving me compliments and me just 'eating it all up without a care' unless it's related to an action I'm interested in taking.

* input: Let's take it into action. Can you suggest some wikiversity page for me to edit?
** I found the output uninteresting
* input: Any page on Wikiversity regarding rapport or neurodiversity?
** output: shows me Google search results instead
* input: I'm thinking https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Neurodiversity_Movement but I don't wanna modify it because I want to preserve the original knowing I may be &quot;crazy&quot; today and thus I suggest a subpage where I'll &quot;interpret&quot; the content and try to improve what the project is about
** output: it suggests I do that on my user page instead...so I'll do that.

RESULT: Editing my userpage and adding among other things:
* [[User:ThinkingScience/Neurodiversity_Movement_Interpretation]]</text>
      <sha1>k4pc1mdjoxwuzz2c1qgyxw2zicpjfwf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807344</id>
      <parentid>2807227</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T07:48:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor />
      <comment>Bulleted list</comment>
      <origin>2807344</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1129" sha1="pi8la2s901ztk7jzb4woxw92r3yanlk" xml:space="preserve">Idea is not to &quot;spam&quot; Wikiversity but instead focus on the output that the &quot;AI&quot; program got in its output that made an impression on me. For simplicity I could add anything that I read.

I will not include output that encourages &quot;megalomania&quot;, this &quot;AI Mode&quot; just giving me compliments and me just 'eating it all up without a care' unless it's related to an action I'm interested in taking.

* input: Let's take it into action. Can you suggest some wikiversity page for me to edit?
** I found the output uninteresting
* input: Any page on Wikiversity regarding rapport or neurodiversity?
** output: shows me Google search results instead
* input: I'm thinking https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Neurodiversity_Movement but I don't wanna modify it because I want to preserve the original knowing I may be &quot;crazy&quot; today and thus I suggest a subpage where I'll &quot;interpret&quot; the content and try to improve what the project is about
** output: it suggests I do that on my user page instead...so I'll do that.

RESULT: 
* Editing my userpage and adding among other things:
** [[User:ThinkingScience/Neurodiversity_Movement_Interpretation]]</text>
      <sha1>pi8la2s901ztk7jzb4woxw92r3yanlk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2807348</id>
      <parentid>2807344</parentid>
      <timestamp>2026-05-02T09:26:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Making a new subpage regarding AI Prompts that is more general than what it was on my &quot;Draft:The&quot; etc. which was specific only to that project</comment>
      <origin>2807348</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1645" sha1="1sdvwlgwo7x0ekm5eu1z6xcbj5oy3lq" xml:space="preserve">Idea is not to &quot;spam&quot; Wikiversity but instead focus on the output that the &quot;AI&quot; program got in its output that made an impression on me. For simplicity I could add anything that I read.

I will not include output that encourages &quot;megalomania&quot;, this &quot;AI Mode&quot; just giving me compliments and me just 'eating it all up without a care' unless it's related to an action I'm interested in taking.

* input: Let's take it into action. Can you suggest some wikiversity page for me to edit?
** I found the output uninteresting
* input: Any page on Wikiversity regarding rapport or neurodiversity?
** output: shows me Google search results instead
* input: I'm thinking https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Neurodiversity_Movement but I don't wanna modify it because I want to preserve the original knowing I may be &quot;crazy&quot; today and thus I suggest a subpage where I'll &quot;interpret&quot; the content and try to improve what the project is about
** output: it suggests I do that on my user page instead...so I'll do that.

RESULT: 
* Editing my userpage and adding among other things:
** [[User:ThinkingScience/Neurodiversity_Movement_Interpretation]]

'''AI Prompt History referenced to from other projects on Wikiversity/elsewhere'''

Here I am &quot;Making a new subpage that will host so far, unless I archive it with ie. Wayback Machine, then ask for it to be wiped here&quot;:

[[User:ThinkingScience/All_General_AI_Prompt_History_Archive|Archive of prompt history which I interpret the AI Policy is all about]]

==  ==

* input: I've created a 100% human post by myself at https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity_talk:Artificial_intelligence&amp;action=edit</text>
      <sha1>1sdvwlgwo7x0ekm5eu1z6xcbj5oy3lq</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>File:VLSI.Arith.2A.CLA.20260501.pdf</title>
    <ns>6</ns>
    <id>329383</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807225</id>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:27:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>{{Information
|Description=Carry Lookahead Adders 2A traditional (20260501 - 20260430)
|Source={{own|Young1lim}}
|Date=2026-05-01
|Author=Young W. Lim
|Permission={{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}
}}</comment>
      <origin>2807225</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="281" sha1="hmsmz0oiomv5zn8vhpz9rmojzq0uip8" xml:space="preserve">== Summary ==
{{Information
|Description=Carry Lookahead Adders 2A traditional (20260501 - 20260430)
|Source={{own|Young1lim}}
|Date=2026-05-01
|Author=Young W. Lim
|Permission={{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}
}}
== Licensing ==
{{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}</text>
      <sha1>hmsmz0oiomv5zn8vhpz9rmojzq0uip8</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>File:C04.SA0.PtrOperator.1A.20260501.pdf</title>
    <ns>6</ns>
    <id>329384</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807229</id>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:39:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>{{Information
|Description=C04.SA0: Address and Dereference Operators (20260501 - 20260430)
|Source={{own|Young1lim}}
|Date=2026-05-01
|Author=Young W. Lim
|Permission={{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}
}}</comment>
      <origin>2807229</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="287" sha1="lyhgcodnjrf8roi02bemm9k4yh0onja" xml:space="preserve">== Summary ==
{{Information
|Description=C04.SA0: Address and Dereference Operators (20260501 - 20260430)
|Source={{own|Young1lim}}
|Date=2026-05-01
|Author=Young W. Lim
|Permission={{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}
}}

== Licensing ==
{{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}</text>
      <sha1>lyhgcodnjrf8roi02bemm9k4yh0onja</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:ThinkingScience/Neurodiversity Movement Interpretation</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>329385</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807230</id>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:40:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ThinkingScience</username>
        <id>3061446</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>First interpretation plans...seeing if I can somehow &quot;improve&quot; on this.</comment>
      <origin>2807230</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="695" sha1="6shjf0rdmubgr6ltsif9noa81blo733" xml:space="preserve">Template Links:
* {{tl|AI-generated}}
* {{tl|Draft}}
* {{tl|underconstruction}}

The above template links are for if this page is ever moved outside this subpage by the recommendation of a real human.

This is a page where I will try to interpret what I can from the &quot;[[Neurodiversity Movement]]&quot; and trying to improve it in a more neutral way. I will base my edits on this oldid: https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Neurodiversity_Movement&amp;oldid=297014

That was Luai Lashire's last edit and that was made on 20 July, 2008. To preserve the &quot;original intent&quot; is part of the plans but a greater personal interpretation of it so this will be &quot;inspired&quot; rather than &quot;based&quot; on the content.</text>
      <sha1>6shjf0rdmubgr6ltsif9noa81blo733</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>File:Laurent.5.Permutation.6C.20260501.pdf</title>
    <ns>6</ns>
    <id>329386</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807233</id>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T13:46:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>{{Information
|Description=Laurent.5: Permutation 6C (2026501 - 20260430)
|Source={{own|Young1lim}}
|Date=2026-05-01
|Author=Young W. Lim
|Permission={{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}
}}</comment>
      <origin>2807233</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="269" sha1="j7vrbfhkws1mewefevebs6e0oh41mc0" xml:space="preserve">== Summary ==
{{Information
|Description=Laurent.5: Permutation 6C (2026501 - 20260430)
|Source={{own|Young1lim}}
|Date=2026-05-01
|Author=Young W. Lim
|Permission={{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}
}}

== Licensing ==
{{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}</text>
      <sha1>j7vrbfhkws1mewefevebs6e0oh41mc0</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User talk:Atcovi/OGM &amp; Suicide/The Paper</title>
    <ns>3</ns>
    <id>329387</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807237</id>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T14:19:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Atcovi</username>
        <id>276019</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* AI-Notes (5.1.2026) */ new section</comment>
      <origin>2807237</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="1377" sha1="4dd8ira1x3523sqg51bs1cwn2hszi00" xml:space="preserve">== AI-Notes (5.1.2026) ==

= 🔍 Let’s test your concern directly =
Your paragraph says:&lt;blockquote&gt;OGM → cognitive vulnerability

→ problem solving, rumination, hopelessness

→ suicidal ideation (via IMV)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
----

== 📊 Does your actual paper list support that? ==

=== ✔ 1. OGM → suicidal ideation ===

* Jiang → OGM mediates SI ✔
* Zhu → OGM predicts SI independent of depression ✔
* Kaviani → OGM linked to SI ✔

👉 Covered heavily
----

=== ✔ 2. OGM → problem solving → hopelessness ===

* Kaviani → OGM → poor problem solving → hopelessness → SI ✔
* Arie → same pathway ✔

👉 Direct support (this is your strongest mechanism)
----

=== ✔ 3. OGM → rumination ===

* Watkins → rumination maintains OGM ✔
* CaR-FA-X framework → capture + rumination ✔

👉 Covered
----

=== ✔ 4. OGM → vulnerability (trait-like) ===

* Champagne → persists after depression ✔
* Hallford → remitted depression ✔
* Young → high-risk individuals ✔

👉 Strong support
----

=== ✔ 5. Conditional / nuance (VERY important) ===

* Crane → no effect in general population ✔
* Stange → only under stress ✔

👉 This actually '''strengthens your intro claim''', not weakens it —[[User:Atcovi|Atcovi]] [[User talk:Atcovi|(Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Atcovi|Contribs)]] 14:19, 1 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4dd8ira1x3523sqg51bs1cwn2hszi00</sha1>
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  </page>
  <page>
    <title>File:Data.Object.1A.20260429.pdf</title>
    <ns>6</ns>
    <id>329388</id>
    <revision>
      <id>2807241</id>
      <timestamp>2026-05-01T15:50:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Young1lim</username>
        <id>21186</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>{{Information
|Description=Data.1A: Data Object (20260429 - 20260428)
|Source={{own|Young1lim}}
|Date=2026-05-01
|Author=Young W. Lim
|Permission={{self|GFDL|cc-by-sa-4.0,3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}
}}</comment>
      <origin>2807241</origin>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text bytes="265" sha1="7fx0cuh5kdffdp4du7c9g7z87cg7m44" xml:space="preserve">== Summary ==
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      <comment>Created page with &quot;{{subst:welcome}} ~~~~&quot;</comment>
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      <text bytes="2627" sha1="5wy8iv2nnvfa0s8y69pxnyfzeasjn6p" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
{{Robelbox|theme=9|title='''[[Wikiversity:Welcome|Welcome]] to [[Wikiversity:What is Wikiversity|Wikiversity]],  BigKrow!'''|width=100%}}
&lt;div style=&quot;{{Robelbox/pad}}&quot;&gt;
You can [[Wikiversity:Contact|contact us]] with [[Wikiversity:Questions|questions]] at the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium|colloquium]] or get in touch with [[User talk:Koavf|me personally]] if you would like some [[Help:Contents|help]].

Remember to [[Wikiversity:Signature#How to add your signature|sign]] your comments when [[Wikiversity:Who are Wikiversity participants?|participating]] in [[Wikiversity:Talk page|discussions]]. Using the signature icon [[File:OOjs UI icon signature-ltr.svg]] makes it simple.

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&lt;!-- The Left column --&gt;
&lt;div style=&quot;width:50.0%; float:left&quot;&gt;
* [[Wikiversity:Introduction|Introduction to Wikiversity]]
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&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!-- The Right column --&gt;
&lt;div style=&quot;width:50.0%; float:left&quot;&gt;

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&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br clear=&quot;both&quot;/&gt;

To get started, experiment in the [[wikiversity:sandbox|sandbox]] or on [[special:mypage|your userpage]].

See you around Wikiversity! --—[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!-- Template:Welcome --&gt;
{{Robelbox/close}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5wy8iv2nnvfa0s8y69pxnyfzeasjn6p</sha1>
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      <contributor>
        <username>BigKrow</username>
        <id>3069766</id>
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      <comment>/* Welcome */ Reply</comment>
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      <text bytes="2765" sha1="l79rykcfho72pj9y873ol10f7ph5oc5" xml:space="preserve">==Welcome==
{{Robelbox|theme=9|title='''[[Wikiversity:Welcome|Welcome]] to [[Wikiversity:What is Wikiversity|Wikiversity]],  BigKrow!'''|width=100%}}
&lt;div style=&quot;{{Robelbox/pad}}&quot;&gt;
You can [[Wikiversity:Contact|contact us]] with [[Wikiversity:Questions|questions]] at the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium|colloquium]] or get in touch with [[User talk:Koavf|me personally]] if you would like some [[Help:Contents|help]].

Remember to [[Wikiversity:Signature#How to add your signature|sign]] your comments when [[Wikiversity:Who are Wikiversity participants?|participating]] in [[Wikiversity:Talk page|discussions]]. Using the signature icon [[File:OOjs UI icon signature-ltr.svg]] makes it simple.

We invite you to [[Wikiversity:Be bold|be bold]] and [[Wikiversity|assume good faith]]. Please abide by our [[Wikiversity:Civility|civility]], [[Wikiversity:Privacy policy|privacy]], and [[Foundation:Terms of Use|terms of use]] policies.

To find your way around, check out:
&lt;!-- The Left column --&gt;
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* [[Wikiversity:Introduction|Introduction to Wikiversity]]
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* [[Wikiversity:Introduction explore|Explore]] links in left-hand navigation menu
&lt;/div&gt;
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* Read an [[Wikiversity:Wikiversity teachers|introduction for teachers]]
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* Give [[Wikiversity:Feedback|feedback]] about your observations
* Discuss issues or ask questions at the [[Wikiversity:Colloquium|colloquium]]
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br clear=&quot;both&quot;/&gt;

To get started, experiment in the [[wikiversity:sandbox|sandbox]] or on [[special:mypage|your userpage]].

See you around Wikiversity! --—[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;!-- Template:Welcome --&gt;
{{Robelbox/close}} —[[User:Koavf|Justin (&lt;span style=&quot;color:grey&quot;&gt;ko'''a'''vf&lt;/span&gt;)]]&lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯&lt;/span&gt; 23:39, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

:Thanks! [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigKrow|contribs]]) 01:08, 2 May 2026 (UTC)</text>
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  <page>
    <title>User:ThinkingScience/All General AI Prompt History Archive</title>
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      <comment>This was 100% human created</comment>
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      <text bytes="886" sha1="3625hlvx5vtqqixc27m6szbx50a2vvr" xml:space="preserve">This page is adhering to [[Wikiversity:Artificial intelligence]]'s latest revision as of the making of this post based on this oldid: https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Artificial_intelligence&amp;oldid=2806663

If this text becomes too much...then I may suggest archiving it. If there later is an archive of this text, then maybe I'll request a full wipe of this page so that the size that the text takes up on this page doesn't become too much for the Wikiversity database and then can save some space.

== Prompts ==

Each prompt and it's follow-up inputs and outputs are put into one section at a time. ie. if a series of inputs and outputs were related and it was my judgement that based on all the &quot;back and forth&quot; between me and the Quasi-AI the end result was posting on a talk page or editing something else it will be documented here into its own subsection.</text>
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== Licensing ==
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