Wikimedia Foundation Governance Wiki foundationwiki https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home MediaWiki 1.47.0-wmf.15 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Wikimedia Wikimedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk Resolution Resolution talk Legal Legal talk Minutes Minutes talk Policy Policy talk Endowment Endowment talk Agenda Agenda talk Archive Archive talk Memory Memory talk Committee Committee talk Campaign Campaign talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 107 27313 592009 540530 2026-08-16T10:53:57Z Boud 19778 /* Honesty about the WMF executive's actions against Article 23.4 */ new section 592009 wikitext text/x-wiki {{User:LincolnBot/archiveconfig |archive = Policy talk:Wikimedia Human Rights Policy/Archive %(counter)d |algo = old(180d) |counter = 2 |maxarchivesize = 150K |archiveheader = {{talk archive}} |minthreadstoarchive = 1 |minthreadsleft = 3 }}{{Talk header|Human Rights Policy}} == Questions == Hello, I'm writing in response to the FAQs published on the 3rd Feb and the small further coverage(s) included within the CAC talk. #Why was this policy not shared more broadly before its approval? #:This indicated that no consultation could be done because of the need to fit it in by the December deadline, but that doesn't indicate why ''no'' on-wiki consultation could be done, only limited. #Why was this policy not shared more broadly before its approval? #:Even assuming (for this q) that no consultation was possible, would it not have been possible to state the creation of the policy ''and that consultation wouldn't be viable'' from the off? I'm struggling to see why the first warning we had that something was coming down the pipeline was its creation. #Why was the first conversation hour scheduled with one day notice? #:Could the conversation hour not have been published as "provisional, pending a successful BOT resolution" and thus announced further in advance? If not, why not? #How will you involve the movement in shaping how this policy will be implemented? #:Assuming the community routes are now fully operational since it's now February, I feel that they still are not being pushed broadly enough - they need to be on the village pump equivalents for at least the ten largest communities, preferably more, the front page of meta, notice to SWAN, and more. #If implementation will take years, surely that demonstrates that the community could have been consulted? #:Any reasonable organization had the funding capacity for in-progress activities and conditional programmes, so since it will apparently take years for actual execution to playout, then surely we could have been consulted. A say in implementation =/= a say in the policy text. #Real-time/Alternate #:The bit regarding January timings suggested real-time comms would be in place so I'm hoping these questions can be answered prior to the next quarter (although that would probably work for FAQ update(s)), many thanks in advance [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 14:52, 22 February 2022 (UTC) *Ancillary - please ping on any response, as otherwise it's easy to miss it on foundationwiki [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) *: Hi NBB, I can't answer any of these things (though I think one could make good educated guesses). But I also don't think it's helpful to ride this particular hobby horse too far. *: We have a first pass at such a policy, it seems fine. If there are issues or improvements: we can suggest them. *: It's always good to have more notice (within reason!), but we seem to be falling into the opposite trap, where there's an official "communications playbook" that is handled by "communications staff" and that makes people shy about simply doing their work publicly as possible. That's the worst of all worlds. *: I would prefer to see ''less'' spam of dozens of community fora. The spamming approach doesn't reach many people, but it does make forums of even modestly-sized wikis unusable, and again raises the bar to just working in public, pinging specific people or communities affected where appropriate. An invite to work together on specific things that relate to and affect communities on a wiki, tied to a forum where people already wrangle challenges and concerns, would also be good. But I can't think for instance of anything appropriate for the main page of Meta... *: Warmly, [[user:sj|SJ]] [[user talk:sj|+]] 00:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC) == Typo? == Hello. At [[Policy:Human Rights Policy/Frequently asked questions#Will this policy become available in other languages?]] it says "is currently work", shouldn't it be "is currently working" instead? Thanks, &mdash; [[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]] ([[User talk:MarcoAurelio|talk]]) 21:07, 27 March 2023 (UTC) :Thank you @[[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]], I have updated the answer to that question given current state of translations. Thank you! [[User:GVarnum-WMF|Gregory Varnum (Wikimedia Foundation) &#91;he/him&#93;]] ([[User talk:GVarnum-WMF|talk]]) 04:50, 28 March 2023 (UTC) == Link rot == Hi @[[User:GVarnum-WMF|GVarnum-WMF]]: the link to the ILO declaration is dead. IA captured the site on December 9, 2021, the day after the board adopted the policy (https://web.archive.org/web/20211128010401/https://www.ilo.org/declaration/lang--en/index.htm). Alternatively, [https://www.ilo.org/resource/conference-paper/ilo-1998-declaration-fundamental-principles-and-rights-work-and-its-follow this page] has the original text and the 2022 update. Best, [[User:Voorts|voorts]] ([[User talk:Voorts|talk]]) 02:37, 11 October 2025 (UTC) :@[[User:Voorts|Voorts]] - I have gone ahead and [[Special:Diff/532546|updated the link]]. Thank you! --[[User:GVarnum-WMF|Gregory Varnum (Wikimedia Foundation) [he/him]]] ([[User talk:GVarnum-WMF|talk]]) 17:13, 20 October 2025 (UTC) == Honesty about the WMF executive's actions against Article 23.4 == WMF has [https://medium.com/regarding-wikipedia/how-the-wikimedia-foundations-union-busting-is-textbook-9b5245f6a736 used the techniques established in the scholarly literature] in fighting ''against'' [[s:Universal Declaration of Human Rights#Article 23|the UNHDR 1948 Article 23.4 rights]] of [https://wikiworkersunited.org WMF workers who have organised as a trade union], but has so far not stated that ''in plain English'', as far as I can see. The statement on the Wikimedia Human Rights Policy includes {{tq|The Wikimedia Foundation ... must be '''honest''' with ourselves, the movement, and the broader public about our successes and shortcomings along the way.}} ('''emphasis''' added) So please be honest, and state in plain English that the WMF executive, with ''de facto'' support from the WMF Board of Trustees by its failure to prevent the executive's actions, has acted systematically against the human rights of WMF workers over the past few months. That would be a small step consistent with the stated policy. [[User:Boud|Boud]] ([[User talk:Boud|talk]]) 10:53, 16 August 2026 (UTC) qstht0x5q5migpne6zd65mlpok8bsrr 592010 592009 2026-08-16T10:58:11Z Boud 19778 /* Honesty about the WMF executive's actions against Article 23.4 */ fact check 592010 wikitext text/x-wiki {{User:LincolnBot/archiveconfig |archive = Policy talk:Wikimedia Human Rights Policy/Archive %(counter)d |algo = old(180d) |counter = 2 |maxarchivesize = 150K |archiveheader = {{talk archive}} |minthreadstoarchive = 1 |minthreadsleft = 3 }}{{Talk header|Human Rights Policy}} == Questions == Hello, I'm writing in response to the FAQs published on the 3rd Feb and the small further coverage(s) included within the CAC talk. #Why was this policy not shared more broadly before its approval? #:This indicated that no consultation could be done because of the need to fit it in by the December deadline, but that doesn't indicate why ''no'' on-wiki consultation could be done, only limited. #Why was this policy not shared more broadly before its approval? #:Even assuming (for this q) that no consultation was possible, would it not have been possible to state the creation of the policy ''and that consultation wouldn't be viable'' from the off? I'm struggling to see why the first warning we had that something was coming down the pipeline was its creation. #Why was the first conversation hour scheduled with one day notice? #:Could the conversation hour not have been published as "provisional, pending a successful BOT resolution" and thus announced further in advance? If not, why not? #How will you involve the movement in shaping how this policy will be implemented? #:Assuming the community routes are now fully operational since it's now February, I feel that they still are not being pushed broadly enough - they need to be on the village pump equivalents for at least the ten largest communities, preferably more, the front page of meta, notice to SWAN, and more. #If implementation will take years, surely that demonstrates that the community could have been consulted? #:Any reasonable organization had the funding capacity for in-progress activities and conditional programmes, so since it will apparently take years for actual execution to playout, then surely we could have been consulted. A say in implementation =/= a say in the policy text. #Real-time/Alternate #:The bit regarding January timings suggested real-time comms would be in place so I'm hoping these questions can be answered prior to the next quarter (although that would probably work for FAQ update(s)), many thanks in advance [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 14:52, 22 February 2022 (UTC) *Ancillary - please ping on any response, as otherwise it's easy to miss it on foundationwiki [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) *: Hi NBB, I can't answer any of these things (though I think one could make good educated guesses). But I also don't think it's helpful to ride this particular hobby horse too far. *: We have a first pass at such a policy, it seems fine. If there are issues or improvements: we can suggest them. *: It's always good to have more notice (within reason!), but we seem to be falling into the opposite trap, where there's an official "communications playbook" that is handled by "communications staff" and that makes people shy about simply doing their work publicly as possible. That's the worst of all worlds. *: I would prefer to see ''less'' spam of dozens of community fora. The spamming approach doesn't reach many people, but it does make forums of even modestly-sized wikis unusable, and again raises the bar to just working in public, pinging specific people or communities affected where appropriate. An invite to work together on specific things that relate to and affect communities on a wiki, tied to a forum where people already wrangle challenges and concerns, would also be good. But I can't think for instance of anything appropriate for the main page of Meta... *: Warmly, [[user:sj|SJ]] [[user talk:sj|+]] 00:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC) == Typo? == Hello. At [[Policy:Human Rights Policy/Frequently asked questions#Will this policy become available in other languages?]] it says "is currently work", shouldn't it be "is currently working" instead? Thanks, &mdash; [[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]] ([[User talk:MarcoAurelio|talk]]) 21:07, 27 March 2023 (UTC) :Thank you @[[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]], I have updated the answer to that question given current state of translations. Thank you! [[User:GVarnum-WMF|Gregory Varnum (Wikimedia Foundation) &#91;he/him&#93;]] ([[User talk:GVarnum-WMF|talk]]) 04:50, 28 March 2023 (UTC) == Link rot == Hi @[[User:GVarnum-WMF|GVarnum-WMF]]: the link to the ILO declaration is dead. IA captured the site on December 9, 2021, the day after the board adopted the policy (https://web.archive.org/web/20211128010401/https://www.ilo.org/declaration/lang--en/index.htm). Alternatively, [https://www.ilo.org/resource/conference-paper/ilo-1998-declaration-fundamental-principles-and-rights-work-and-its-follow this page] has the original text and the 2022 update. Best, [[User:Voorts|voorts]] ([[User talk:Voorts|talk]]) 02:37, 11 October 2025 (UTC) :@[[User:Voorts|Voorts]] - I have gone ahead and [[Special:Diff/532546|updated the link]]. Thank you! --[[User:GVarnum-WMF|Gregory Varnum (Wikimedia Foundation) [he/him]]] ([[User talk:GVarnum-WMF|talk]]) 17:13, 20 October 2025 (UTC) == Honesty about the WMF executive's actions against Article 23.4 == WMF has [https://medium.com/regarding-wikipedia/how-the-wikimedia-foundations-union-busting-is-textbook-9b5245f6a736 used the techniques established in the scholarly literature] in fighting ''against'' [[s:Universal Declaration of Human Rights#Article 23|the UNHDR 1948 Article 23.4 rights]] of [https://wikiworkersunited.org WMF workers who have organised as a trade union], but has so far not stated that ''in plain English'', as far as I can see. The statement on the Wikimedia Human Rights Policy includes {{tq|The Wikimedia Foundation ... must be '''honest''' with ourselves, the movement, and the broader public about our successes and shortcomings along the way.}} ('''emphasis''' added) So please be honest, and state in plain English that the WMF executive, with ''de facto'' support from the WMF Board of Trustees by its failure to prevent the executive's actions, has acted systematically against the human rights of WMF workers over the past few months. That would be a small step consistent with the stated policy. [[User:Boud|Boud]] ([[User talk:Boud|talk]]) 10:53, 16 August 2026 (UTC) :For readers unfamiliar with the topic, see the [[m:Wiki Workers United/Claims and responses|community-curated fact-check of statements from the Wikimedia Foundation, its staff, and its board about the Wiki Workers United effort]]. 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