Disputatio:Res publica Bohemica - Vicipaedia

# Disputatio:Res publica Bohemica

### E Vicipaedia

Vicipaedia 2 paginas de terra illa habet: Tzekia et Res Publica Cecha? Quale nomen adoptare debemus? Possibile, nomen potium est Cechia sive Czechia? --Alexander Gerascenco 15:55, 2 Ianuarii 2006 (UTC)

  Tzekia appears to be based off of Egger's Tzechoslovakia, Cecha is coined with the Italian-style "Church" pronunciation in mind. I really dislike Egger's overuse of Tz and k, but his book has such authority among Neo-Latinists that I would recomend we go with Tzechia. --Iustinus 19:51, 2 Ianuarii 2006 (UTC)

Won't it be useful to make a clear distinction between the two digraphs: "cz" and "tz", so that one of them would always stand for the sound denoted by "c" (before "e", "i", "y") - in Italian, "cz" - in Polish, "ch" in English, "tsch" - in German and the other for the sound denoted by "ts" - in English, "z" - in German, "c" - in Polish and, before "e", "i", "y", in the traditional variant of Latin pronunciation I was taught at the university. Should we write "Tzar" and "Czechia" (as I would prefer) or "Czar" and "Tzechia"? -- Alexander Gerascenco 16:46, 2 Ianuarii 2006 (UTC)

Czechia mihi melius sonat. Cuchar 21:21, 3 Martii 2006 (UTC)

  Mihi etiam! -- Alexander Gerascenco 07:07, 4 Martii 2006 (UTC)

"Cz" appears nowhere in the Latin-Czech dictionary (as well as "tz" or "k"). There is no reason for writing "z" after "c", because "e" follows. I think that the best forms are "Cechia" and "Res publica Cecha". Write more opinions so we could correct everything. Petr C. 08:25, 4 Martii 2006 (UTC)

  As far as I know, "c" before "i", "e", "y" is read according to Italian rules, i.e. like English "ch", only according to the Church pronunciation, which is not followed by everyone. Personally I was taught to read "c" as "ts" in such positions, and the reconstructed classical pronunciation prescribes reading "c" always as "k". So, "Cechia" could be read as "Tsekhia" or even "Kekia"...
  "Cz" and "tz" can be used in Latin transliterations of foreign words (esp. proper names) (see, e.g., Graesse. Orbis Latinus, Hofmann. Lexicon Universale, Herberstein. Rerum Moscoviticarum Commentarii, etc.). The problem is their interchangeability (that I'd love to put an end to)...
  The Russian-Latin dictionary that I have offers such variant of the country name as "Tsec(h)ia"... -- Alexander Gerascenco 05:04, 5 Martii 2006 (UTC)
    That's the problem of latin in the modern world - each nation uses its own pronounciation rules. I am taught that "c" before "i", "e", "y", "ae", "oe" is pronounced as "tz" (rules used in the Czech Republic - medieval latin). Example - "Cicero":
    - Medieval latin [tzitzero] - in Slavic languages c, ц
    - Germany [kikero]
    - Italy [tchitchero] - in Slavic languages cz, č, ч
    - France [sisero]
    - United kingdom [siserou]
    In this angle of view it's really hard to say which form describing the Czech land is correct. Latin came to Bohemia in medieval ages, but "Tzekia" appeared for the first time in history at the beginning of the 20-th century as a part of "Tzekoslovakia" (latin had already been "dead" language). That's why the medieval latin seems to be the best for me. I understand, that "big" nations would like to use their form of latin everywhere, but Tzekia is already being used in many other Vicipaedia articles, so this form seems to be a good compromise. Petr C. 10:26, 5 Martii 2006 (UTC)
      "Tzekia", never "Tzechia"? -- Alexander Gerascenco 12:44, 5 Martii 2006 (UTC)

      Considering the poor quality of much of the Latin here, I would not think referring to widespread use of a word here to be any kind of argument for its use. Errors go unchecked and tend to multiply... —Myces Tiberinus 03:08, 31 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Quin Bohemia? Bohemia enim non est diffilicis scriptu. Scio quidem hanc regionem non eosdem terminos habuisse ac Tsecia hodierna, sed tamen paene eandem regionem significat. Et - exempli gratia - etiam nomine Italiae utimur quamvis Italia hodierna maior sit quam Italia Romanorum temporis. usor:Bohmhammel 20.31 (UTC) pridie Nonas Martias 2006

  Ego quoque Bohemia malo. Also, when it comes to spelling sounds that can't be unproblematically spelled in Latin (such as the 'ch') I would be inclined to use the original/native orthography if possible (thus, from Česko, either Cech- or perhaps Čech-—or do the Czechs have a standard method of reducing diacriticked letters to plain ones?). That said, Hofmann does write Czechus at least once. "-kia" doesn't seem to be supported at all. —Myces Tiberinus 03:08, 31 Martii 2006 (UTC)

    I should append that the usual treatment I have run aross is that the sounds are spelled according to the underlying native language of the Latinist (so as an English-speaker I might prefer 'Czechia', the English form)—but in a place like this that's somewhat infeasible. —Myces Tiberinus 13:43, 31 Martii 2006 (UTC)

## [recensere] Res Publica Bohemica etc. etc. etc.

Georgius omnibus, qui hanc disputationem participant, salutem. Hodie denique quaestionem de nomine Rei Publicae Bohemicae (sive Tzekae, ut nonnulli dicunt) ad viros feminasque doctos, qui studiis in universitatibus studiorum Bohemicis (sive, sit venia verbo, Tzekicis) operam dant, cursu electronico detuli; equidem nullus dubito, quin duas paginas de eadem re publica habere supervacaneum sit; itaque exspectemus paulisper. --Georgius Laminarius 07:47, 17 Maii 2006 (UTC)

In Vicipaedia Latina iam sunt paginae lingua Bohemica et Bohemoslovacia. Possibile, haec pagina etiam renominanda est "Bohemia" (et pagina, nunc Bohemia nominatur, facienda est "Bohemia (terra)")?

  P.S. Václav Klaus -> Venceslaus Klaus (fons: Percontatio Venceslai Klaus, praesidentis Bohemiae [1])

-- Alexander Gerascenco 06:14, 29 Augusti 2006 (UTC)

Sodalis optime, gratias tibi pro interrogatione tua ago; nunc equidem nomen Rei Publicae Bohemicae mihi perplacet (quin etiam in usu diutissime est); nondum autem unum nomen, quo patria mea appelletur, proponere velim, quamvis opinionem meam habeam. Primum res in sessionibus nostris universitariis et in scholis Circuli Latini Prageni tractanda et penitus perscrutanda erit. Deinde omnia, si necesse erit, mutanda nobis erunt. Sed, quod ad vocem Tzekiae exit, parum Latina esse mihi videtur. --Georgius Laminarius 13:11, 4 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

## [recensere] Adhuc Tzekia - mox Res Publica Bohemica

Nonnullos Universitatis Carolinae Pragensis professores adii, ut sententiam suam de nomine rei publicae, quae ex Bohemia, Moravia, parte Silesiae constat, aperirent; opusculum de hac re proculdubio exarandum nimis longum temporis spatium postulat et bene compertum est lexica Latina (index eorum apud lingua Bohemica operaque in Academia scientiarum Bohemica edita nomen Rei Publicae Bohemicae continere. Intra ergo quattuordecim dies, sodales egregii, huic paginae nomen Rei Publicae Bohemicae impositurus sum. Unum autem nomen terrarum Bohemicarum variis ex causis perdifficile inveniri potest - nondum enim consensus inter incolas Bohemiae, Moraviae, Silesiae exstat. --Georgius Laminarius 16:41, 12 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Receptum de "http://la.wikipedia.org../../../r/e/s/Disputatio%7ERes_publica_Bohemica_9156.html"

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