Disputatio:Nova Aurelia - Vicipaedia

# Disputatio:Nova Aurelia

### E Vicipaedia

Franciae "Orléans" est Aurelianum. Non est Aurelia.

## [recensere] Novum Cenabum

I vote to keep the article here at Nova Aurelia. Sinister Petrus 23:19, 1 Iulii 2006 (UTC)

  Done. Could someone provide sources (or at least a comment) for "Novum Cenabum", please? Just put it into the <ref>...</ref> --Roland2 08:59, 2 Iulii 2006 (UTC)
    I nosed around yesterday to discover that "Cenabum" is the old Celtic name of the place that Orleans is built on. Or perhaps is the same thing (I don't know the history). Anyway, on is like saying Gaul, the other is like saying France. Sinister Petrus 22:47, 2 Iulii 2006 (UTC)

## [recensere] Nova Orleans

  The name of my home is Nouveau Orleans. Nova Orleans would be acceptable as a Latin version of the name with Orleans taking the third declention but this other stuff just has to go. I would not object to a mention of the old name of the name sake but the name, only name now and forever, of Nouveau Orleans is Nouveau Orleans. English speakers have taken to calling the city New Orleans and that is acceptable in the same way that Nova Orleans would be. However, the first, only, and true name of the city from it's founding to today and for the rest of time is Nouveau Orleans and it is an insult to the great people of the city to not respect what they themselves call the city when the form is easily put into the other language.
    Um, I don't see how Novum Aurelianum is any more disrepectful than Novum Eboracum, Nova Caesarea, Nova Anglia, or any of the other myriad Latin names formed by appending "new" to an old world site with a pre-existing Latin name. --Iustinus 01:32, 2 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
      I don't have the time or energy to track down a huge number of attestations for Nova Aurelia(na) right now, so these will have to suffice for now:
      - 1844 Praesente Reverendissimo D. Antonio Blanc, Episcopo Novae-Aureliae, Synodus Dioecesana Neo-Aurelianensis Secunda, habita mense Aprili, anno MDCCCXLIV.
      - 1977 Caroli Egger Lexicon Nominum Locorum: "Ludoviciana, ae, f."
        If the form of the name as you have indicated is used in the Latin Mass I would expect that some of native population have used this name and know it. I will check with the church. Please be respectful of native populations before you just go around renaming things on whim.
          Sir, I don't know what else to tell you than what I've already said:
          - The name Nova Aurelia has been used in Latin since at least 1844, and almost certainly longer than that.
          - Therefore I am not "changing" anything, and certainly not "on a whim." I am simply reporting the Latin name that has been used for centuries.
          - I do not intend to disrespect anyone. I wish you would not use charged phrasings like "be respectful of native populations." This is not a social issue of any kind (or at least no more than the fact that the Chinese call your home 新奥爾良). The Latin name just is what it is.
          ...but clearly I am going to have to prove this to you with another long list of citations. --Iustinus 07:24, 2 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

Actually, now that I've gathered the citations, it seems that Neo-Aurelia actually has a longer, and better attested history. But Nova Aurelia's attestations are significant as well. A number of other forms have cropped up as well, here and there: I'm actually more used to hearing Aureliana or Aurelianum, but in fact these aren't very common (though Egger argued for their use at least in the case of Orléans, France.) Mr. Anonymous User, I really hope this is enough to settle the issue for you. But now there is no useful information in the article except on the history of the city's Latin name. That is a shameful state of affairs. Perhaps you might be interested in adding information yourself? Useful models (not to mention sources) can be found at fr:La Nouvelle-Orléans and en:New Orleans, Louisiana. --Iustinus 16:48, 2 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

  I accept what you have stated and appoligize myself for my emotions. I had seen the name for both Louisiana and New Orleans in Latin before and thought that it was strange but I figured that there had to be some logic behind it. What really upset me was when I came to the site on intention to add something in Latin I discovered that the name had been changed to Nova Canebum. Nova Aurelia at least sounds like New Orleans if you think about it but this I really felt was just goin way too far. Being that I am a Native American as well as an American Native; and that I have to constantly explain the correct French names of places to people, such as Baton Rouge being called but some crazies New Richmond, I figured I would draw a big line in the sand. I didn`t study Latin so that I could go back in time but so that I could use it for the modern day. I admit my ignorance in not looking up the accepted name used by the Church but that was not my point. Nova Canebum I thought set up a bad tide of how things were going and I really wanted it to stop. I am happy with the way the article is now as far as the name and I will take you up on the offer for writing something of further interest.
    Good, I'm glad we have an understanding. I did wonder if the original Novum Cenabum was part of the problem: I agree that's awful, and I don't think I've ever heard it used outside of Wikipedia (though it is mentioned in passing at one of the links I provided, as Neo-Genabum, but I don't think the author meant that to have any authority.) And I guess it is kind of a good thing that you made me get off my butt and add citations: that really shoudl be done for every article, but it rarely happens. And man, can you believe how many I found this time? I'm so pleased with it that I keep coming back to the page to look.
    I look forward to seeing your contribution. --Iustinus 02:16, 8 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

## [recensere] Nova Res

I hope my skill of Latin is adaquate but if anyone finds a better way to put the grammer then please by all means inprove the article. I wasn't sure of the best name to use or if there was already Latin names for somethings so I did the best I could. I provide the list here of the latin and the english so that someone can change the right part if they have a better name.

  Vestrum Quatratum - Viuex Carre - French Quarter
    Lat. Vestrum = Fr. votre, not vieux. For Quarter/Carre, I would recommend vicus "village; neighbourhood; block", for vieux either vetus or antiquus... probably antiquus is better, to avoid the awkward assonant alliteration.
      Yah, I meant to use vetus. I suppose my possessiveness of the Quarter came out in my typing.--58.89.148.204 07:42, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)Grill13
  Fluvius Mississippia - Mississippi River
    There was some discussion at Disputatio:Illinoesia about how to say "Mississippi." Shamefully enough it hasn't progressed beyond that point since then, so we've just been using the Eggerian Missisippius Fluvius.
  Sinus Mexici - Gulf of Mexico
    Sinus Mexicanus would be better
  Terra Neutri - Neutral Ground - Rue Canal
    Hmmm, I would prefer neutrius (neutri does frequently occur in the expression neutri generis "of neither gender", but usually the genitive is actually neutrius, like alterius, unius, eius and so on), or even neutralis. Or of course media(lis). Where does the name "Rue Canal" come from? Is that rue "street"? Surely it's not rue "rue"?
    It is the French 'rue' as in Street. The official name of the street is Rue Canal since there was meant to have a canal conecting the River and the Lake there but it was never dug. The popular saying of 'neutral ground' marked the spot in the center of the street where it was ok of the newly arrived Americans and old town French to meet. This difference in the name of the center of the street has been traditionally so popular that it is now codified into Louisiana Law that the center of every street is called the 'Neutral Ground.'--58.89.148.204 07:33, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)grill13--Billiot 08:00, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
  Maior Amphitheater Tholus - Superdome
    THat's a tough one. I might just say "Superdome (i.e. "Amphitheatrum Tholi Maximi")." If I'm not mistaken, architects distinguish the words "tholus" and "dome", but even so I'm not sure that distinction holds in Latin.
      Dome comes to us by way of Domus for house as far as I understand. Technically the name of the superdome thus means higher house but then you have no idea what it is used for. There was another word for dome that I found but wasn't too impressed with it and it was even more different than tholus.--58.89.148.204 07:33, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)grill13--Billiot 08:00, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
  Sanctus Novae Aureliae - New Orleans Saints
    There is some disagreement as to whether or not sports teams should have their names translated at all: see Disputatio:Cincinnatorum Cyclones. The plural of sanctus is sancti, of course. Also, I think an adjective would be better than a genitive here, so perhaps it should be Sancti Neoaurelianenses or something like that (as you will recall from those sources I cited, the adjective occurs in several forms).
      I have checked and it seems to be the convention that all the sports teams don't have their names translated into any language. Japanese uses Katakana but it is only to aproximate the sound. So I figure that when I get around to the next round of writing that I will change it to "New Orleans Saints (Latine Sancti Neoaureliani)."
  Judicium Supremum Lodovicianae - Supreme Court of Louisiana
    Supreme Court. Supreme Court. There's got to be a good expression for that. I don't think Iudicium is the best word, though (also, note that by convention we don't use the letter j in native Latin words here: in real life you can use it or not, as you see fit, here we just want to keep it consistant). Perhaps curia, which at least in the traditional Latin phrases used by lawyers can mean "court of law."
      I thought of Curia and think that is a good choice except that the word sounds more like a legislature then a court. However you are right about it being what Lawyers use. --58.89.148.204 07:33, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)grill13 --Billiot 08:00, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
  Cathedra Sancti Lodovici - St. Louis Cathedral
    Cathedralis, but otherwise that's correct. FOr an example, compare Cathedralis Sanctorum Michaelis et Gudulae
  Lacum Pontratan - Lake Pontratrain
    It's probably better to put the name before Lacus (and note that it's lacus not lacum) rather than after it. But what the name shoudl be, I don't know. Seems like something that almost certainly has a Latin name already. For now, why don't you say Pontratranus Lacus.
      It might have pons, pontis in it. Char- could imply Latin Car-. What's the etymology of the whole term? IacobusAmor 05:15, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
        It was named after 'comte de Pontchartrain' in France but that could mean anything. I wouldn't like to see something too far off what it looks like now. --Billiot 08:00, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

I have added my initial comments in blue. FOr many of these things we can probably find good attestations, but I'm a little busy now. So perhaps you can go ahead with the article, and if I can find better names for things, we can always change it later. --Iustinus 04:59, 14 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

## [recensere] Corrections

Made a few corrections but still need to come back and add. Plus can anyone tell me the Latin word for Creole?--Billiot 13:53, 1 Martii 2007 (UTC)

Receptum de "http://la.wikipedia.org../../../n/o/v/Disputatio%7ENova_Aurelia_edec.html"

##### Views

- Res
- Disputatio
- Emendatio recentissima

##### Quaerere