Plé úsáideora:Cuir Mise An Locht Ar Na Tuistí - Vicipéid

# Plé úsáideora:Cuir Mise An Locht Ar Na Tuistí

### Ón Vicipéid, an chiclipéid shaor.

Ar mhiste leat gan a bheith ag tabhairt drochíde don ghramadach ar leathanach Chogadh Carad na hÉireann. Le cead duit, níl tuiscint cheart agat go fóill ar úsáid cheart an ailt dheimhnigh sa Ghaeilge. Nuair atá ainmfhocal faoi réir ag ainmfhocal eile agus an t-alt deimhneach eatarthu, ní féidir alt a chur roimh an chéad fhocal acu a thuilleadh - is leor alt amháin leis an iomlán a dhéanamh deimhneach. Féach anseo:

Béarla: the people of the country (dhá "the") Gaeilge: muintir na tíre (níl ach aon alt amháin ann) mícheart ar fad: *an mhuintir na tíre (níl cead agat dhá alt a úsáid)

Níl ach aon eisceacht ann: tá "an mhuintir seo na tíre" ceart - má tá "seo", "sin" nó "úd" ann, is féidir an chéad "an" a chur ansin. Mar sin féin, níl sé mícheart cloí leis an bpríomhriail anseo ach an oiread: tá "muintir seo na tíre" ceart go leor freisin.

Dá réir sin, ní ceadmhach *"den Óglaigh na hÉireann" a úsáid. Is é "d'Óglaigh na hÉireann" an leagan ceart, gan ach aon alt amháin ansin.

Tá súil agam gur leor an nod don eolach.

Le dea-mhéin, Panu Petteri Höglund 18:06, 25 Aibreán 2006 (UTC)

- Uair eile: Tá tú ag déanamh dochair don ghramadach, agus mise díreach ag iarraidh bail éigin a chur ar an leathanach ó thaobh na teanga de. Mura n-éireoidh tú as anois, is é an tátal a bhainfidh mé as an scéal go bhfuil tú d'aon ogham ag iarraidh sabaitéireacht a dhéanamh ar mo chuid oibre, agus creid uaim go n-ardóidh mé an cheist sin i lárionad an chomhphobail. Panu Petteri Höglund 18:21, 25 Aibreán 2006 (UTC)

- Anois, tá mé ag éirí bréan breoite de seo. Níl tú ach ag sabaitéireacht gach aon dréacht de mo chuid féin. Níl an oiread Gaeilge agat is go mbeifeá in ann naisc shlachtmhara a chur isteach gan dochar a dhéanamh do ghramadach na teanga. Má tá rud éigin agat go pearsanta i m'aghaidh, cuir ríomhphost chugam, ach éirígh as an tsabaitéireacht. Panu Petteri Höglund 21:50, 25 Aibreán 2006 (UTC)

- As it seems idle to try to get anything across to you in Irish, please take note of this: The unhappy fact is, that you do not have enough Irish to even add links without murdering the grammar. Please stop vandalizing my writings, because what you doing can only be called vandalism. Do try to acquire a level of Irish that is as high as the level of your enthusiasm to contribute. But as the things are, I am terribly sorry to say that you seem to be unable to contribute with anything very constructive. Panu Petteri Höglund 21:57, 25 Aibreán 2006 (UTC)

- You are still unable to create links without distorting the grammar. Is it really too much to hope, that you put the basic form of the word on the left side of a vertical line, and keep my inflected form on the right side of the line? Don't you really know how to make Wikipedia links without distorting grammar? I am sick and tired of tidying up the grammar after you. It is my sincere opinion that you are doing more harm than good. Do try to take the trouble of reading a couple of books by native speakers and annotating them thoroughly, so as to find out about good Irish, and come back after one year, that will be quite enough to get going. Remember to get a copy of the unabridged version of Ó Dónaill's dictionary. Here is a list of recommended readings: [1] Panu Petteri Höglund 21:28, 7 Bealtaine 2006 (UTC)

I annulled your edits, because it has become quite obvious by now that you are not a bona fide editor, but a saboteur with some kind of personal grudge. Let it be known that you are not helping the language cause along. Panu Petteri Höglund 15:27, 8 Bealtaine 2006 (UTC)

Is it really such fun destroying other people's work? I cannot simply understand how anyone can be such a piece of damned nuisance. Panu Petteri Höglund 18:07, 8 Bealtaine 2006 (UTC)

Would you please stop murdering the grammar. Face it: it will take a long time before you are able to actually correct anything in an article written by me. Panu Petteri Höglund 19:22, 11 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

Nominative: na Stáit Aontaithe = the United States. Genitive, as used in Arm na Stát Aontaithe = the United States Army. I voided your "correction". GET A FUCKING LIFE and stop destroying other people's work. Panu Petteri Höglund 19:27, 11 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

I voided even your edits on "An tUileloscadh". As you made "san Oirthear" into "san Oirthear na hEorpa", which I already explained on this page is wrong, and why it is wrong ("in Oirthear na hEorpa" would be correct) I continue to see you as a saboteur and not as a bona fide editor. Keep off the pages I edit, or I'll raise a fucking hell. Panu Petteri Höglund 19:32, 11 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

Look now, I do not demand that my translation be kept on the "Forógra na Cásca" page - a mhalairt ar fad, the one left there is definitely better than mine. But you wrote "seo í aistriúcháin go Gaeilge". To start with, "aistriúcháin" is the genitive, not the nominative form. Then again, it is masculine (é), not feminine (í). And then, the whole expression is wrong: you put a flanking pronoun (é, í, iad) before a noun only if the noun has a definite article (an, an t-, na h-) or is otherwise definite (is a proper noun, or is followed by a genitive noun with a definite article).

As regards your addition to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings page: if you can back up the claim that UDR colluded with the Loyalists, I will be quite happy to add it to the article, and believe me I will do it in excellent Irish. But if you write "sa Reisimint Chosanta Uladh" although you have got it explained several times on this page why you should write "i Reisimint Chosanta Uladh", I take it you are sabotaging.

If you honestly want to contribute, then accept it that you cannot write good Irish yet. The way you murder grammar and use words in a wrong way ("taoiseach" is NOT a party leader, it is either a tribal chief or an Irish Prime Minister), you are NOT helping us, you are only creating more tedious updating work for the rest of us. If you want to research on the net for new information, then please give the information in English on the talk page of the article concerned. If you want to be a productive member of the community, then please take the trouble of communicating with the rest of us. Panu Petteri Höglund 08:07, 12 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

Is it really that difficult to understand that you destroy the grammar? Instead of sabotaging, you could be constructive, but you prefer to murder grammar just for laughs. Get a life. Panu Petteri Höglund 15:29, 12 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

## [athraigh] Athruithe go Bobby Sands, Mícheál Ó Coileáin, Éirí Amach na Cásca, srl

A chara. (Úsáideoir Cuir Mise An Locht Ar Na Tuistí). I would recommend that you respond to PPH's comments on your recent updates and "revert" changes to the above articles. While I commend your attention and patience in "wikifying" links and other flow and layout attributes of articles, some of your edits do not always pay due attention and consideration to language. It is for this reason (and likely also your lack of response or attention to the spirit of collaboration and community) that you may find yourself at odds with other community members. Consider a courtesy response before things get out of hand. Guliolopez 17:33, 12 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

## [athraigh] Eadráin (PPH)

A chara. De bharr na díospóidí a tharla le déanaí, tugaim cuireadh duit páirt a ghlacadh i "Eadráin" ar Plé úsáideora:Guliolopez/Eadráin. For now as simply, concisely and even mindedly as possible, I would ask that you set out your position on the issues. We can move towards compromise from there. Guliolopez 12:20, 14 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

## [athraigh] RABHADH

Léigh mé a scríobh Panu faoi na fadhbanna le déanaí ar an Vicipéid Ghaelach. Aontaím leis. Níl sé ceart duit an saghas eagarthóireachta a dhéánamh mar a dheanann tú (na athdhírithe "Art Ó Griofa", mar shampla). Bí cúramach nó cuirtear cosc seachtain ort. Evertype 13:05, 16 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

  Just in case, CMALANT, if you don't get his drift: the above means that you have been warned and that you shall be banned for a week for starters if you fool around any more. Panu Petteri Höglund 19:19, 16 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)
    Beidh ort LÉAMH a scriobh Panu. Rinne sé an-iarracht treoracha a thabhairt duit, a Chmalaint, do chuid gramadach agus do chuid nósanna eagarthóireachta a fheabhsú. Bí ag léamh an t–ábhar sin le linn na seachtaine seo chugainn, agus déan iarracht foghlamtha. Beir bua, Evertype 08:32, 17 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

## [athraigh] For your information

The part of Gramadach na Gaeilge from the headline "Léaspairtí..." onwards has not been cleaned up or rewritten yet. It will get a major overhaul and refurbishment, to the extent that if you put links there, they will most probably be overwritten, not le stainc ort (to annoy you), but ar chúiseanna praiticiúla (for practical reasons). Léaspairtí, by the way, is a Munster word meaning, among other things, snippets of information. In Ulster they'd say giobóga for that. In Aindrias Ó Muimhneacháin's book "Seanchas an Táilliúra", there is a chapter called "Léaspairtí faoi Tháilliúirí", that's where I picked up the word.

As regards Ulster and Munster, note that their dictionary forms in Irish are Ulaidh and An Mhumhain, or Cúige Uladh ("the province of Ulaidh" - note that "Uladh" is the genitive of "Ulaidh") and Cúige Mumhan ("the province of Mumhain"). The genitive forms are "Uladh" and "na Mumhan" respectively, or if you use the Cúige addition, then "Chúige Uladh" and "Chúige Mumhan". Why there is an article before Mumhain and Mumhan in the standalone version, but no article when Mumhan goes with Cúige, is one of the secrets of the language we love so much (don't we?).

We still use the old dative form after "i(n)", thus "in Ulster" is "in Ultaibh" in Irish. (Cf. also "le hUltaibh", as in the name of the book "Slán le hUltaibh" by Ernest Blythe, alias Earnán de Blaghd). The more natural form is "i gCúige Uladh", and Ernie could have called his book "slán le Cúige Uladh", too. Panu Petteri Höglund 19:34, 16 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

Don't make the link like this: na h[[Eorpa]]igh. "Eorpa" is just the genitive form, and you will be forced to make one of your redirect pages, and then you are in for a trouble with my old pal Evertype. Make it like this: na h[[An Eoraip|Eorpaigh]] instead, i.e. a piped link. And actually, take into consideration that if it's a page about NASA; then Europe implies probably European Space Agency, i.e. it is better to refer to ESA instead of Europe, like this: [[ESA|na hEorpaigh]]. Rest assured that I'll write that page about ESA an lá is faide anonn, if not earlier. Panu Petteri Höglund 19:42, 16 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

## [athraigh] Again!

I told you: you do not have a definite article before "Constáblacht Ríoga na hÉireann". You murdered grammar again, and on purpose. No use being friendly to you. This only time I'll correct the grammar for you, but you should learn some Irish or get lost. Besides, you are creating your redirect pages again, and that will most certainly get you into trouble with Evertype. You see, he can ban you, and I am afraid I'll revert most of your edits for good then. :) Panu Petteri Höglund 21:42, 16 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

## [athraigh] More

Let us look at this grrrreat work of art of yours:

"bhí sé ina Choimisiniúr na Garda Síochána"

How many errors do we have there?

To start with, "Garda" is a masculine word - "an Garda". Thus, when we want to put it into genitive case, what do we do?

Can we add an ending? Nopey dopey, because it is a masculine that ends in an -a. What can we do? Well, if it is preceded by a definite article an, then this definite article, which in the nominative case does not cause a mutation, does cause a mutation, so we'll have "an Gharda Síochána".

But what did you put there? You put there the form "na", and let it cause no mutation. Now, my dear, this would be entirely correct, if we had there a feminine word, such as "an tsráid", which has the genitive form na sráide. But the icy part of the story (oighear an scéil, as we say in Irish) is, that Garda is a masculine that stays masculine even in the genitive. Most masculine nouns do (although "an talamh", the land or the earth, does usually have a feminine genitive, na talún as in Conradh na Talún, the Land War, and "an t-am", the time, has in some dialects - notably Claregalway, see for instance Seanchas Thomáis Laighléis - attestedly the feminine genitive na hama). So, we must change it into "an Gharda Síochána". This was your first error corrected.

At this stage, we have bhí sé ina Choimisiniúr an Gharda Síochána.

Is this correct? No, it isn't. The word for "Commissioner", you see. It is certainly not "Coimisiniúr". That one you made up yourself. You do not make up the words yourself, you see. There are words in the Irish language already, no need for you to make them up. Have a go at acmhainn.ie and look for Commissioner there. You will find a lot of "Coimisinéir" and some instances of "Feidhmeannach". I reckon it is "Coimisinéir" then.

You can always say that you do not have a dictionary. Well, you have a computer, you have the Internet, and you have acmhainn.ie. So, you cannot use that defense. You could have picked up the word that way.

Now we have corrected your second error, and have the following:

"bhí sé ina Choimisinéir an Gharda Síochána".

There is still something wrong there. Can you guess what it is? It is your favorite error: double definiteness, which is a doubly definite no-no in Irish syntax. You see, the -a in "ina" is the possessive adjective a = his. And the possessive adjective has the power of definiteness, the same as the definite article and the proper name. And, as I seem to have told you several times on this page already, a noun (coimisinéir) that governs a definite noun in genitive (an Gharda Síochána) is already definite and cannot and shall not be preceded by a definite article under any circumstances. Now, that was your third error, in such a short construction.

We can correct that error by adding "ar" there. Then, it will mean that he was acting the (authority of a) commissioner "upon" the Garda Síochána, i.e. bhí sé ina Choimisinéir ar an nGarda Síochána. Look at that fascinating thing that happens when the singular noun Garda is preceded by a single preposition followed by a definite noun. It is called eclipsis, in Irish urú:

Bhí sé ina Choimisinéir ar an nGarda Síochána

Of course, you can use the construction "Coimisinéir an Gharda Síochána". But you must use it only in permitted contexts. You cannot put just about anything before it. Especially not anything amounting to a definite article.

Now, let us give you the benefit of the doubt regarding those two things with the article and the possessive adjective. When you do not know syntax, you do not know syntax, and that is about the end of it, if you do not want to request the advice of someone who does know syntax. (You could actually have asked me a question on my talk page, but for some entirely unfathomable reason you never did.) But there is really no reason for you to make up a word like "coimisiniúr", when you have the perfectly good access to the correct word on acmhainn.ie.

I am not sure if it ever dawns upon you how daunting it is to correct your errors afterwards, but at least I have tried to explain it. But as you probably carry on as usual, you will get yourself banned by Evertype. Sorry. Panu Petteri Höglund 22:19, 16 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I corrected your error already, no need for you to go there. I am not your nanny however. When I want to add something to a page that has been edited by you after me, I cannot help but be tempted to start with a revert - it is easier than go through the errors and bad grammar you leave all over the place. Panu Petteri Höglund 22:30, 16 Meitheamh 2006 (UTC)

So, you are back, murdering grammar once again. You have so little idea of Irish grammar that every time you change the wording you murder the grammar. You changed "ar na Dílseoirí" into "ar na Aontachtóirí". Don't you know what is wrong with that? Don't you know? Why the hell do you need to change the wording of perfectly good texts AND DESTROY GRAMMAR? Panu Petteri Höglund 12:42, 16 Iúil 2006 (UTC)

BTW: It has not yet become clear to you that your links are no good either. You always make the link around some inflected word, and then you make a redirect page that is supposed to take one to the correct page. But as you have no idea of correct Irish (or maybe you have, but you are murdering it just to annoy me - I would not be surprised, because being some kind of fascist bigot, you invariably target only my work for your vandalism, me being a foreigner with better Irish than your own) you cannot link to the correct page, and must add more and more redirect pages. Of course you do not know that the second redirect does not happen automatically, but that reader is left in a maze (in a Maze!) of new and new redirects, which only take memory space.Panu Petteri Höglund 13:08, 16 Iúil 2006 (UTC)

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