Disputatio Vicipaediae:Babel formulae - Vicipaedia

# Disputatio Vicipaediae:Babel formulae

### E Vicipaedia

## [recensere] Border Function

this is seriously needed for the proper display of many of the flags of this page so that the flags with White areas appear correctly.--Billiot 06:20, 20 Maii 2007 (UTC)

  At last, Billiot!!! Something upon which we agree wholeheartedly!--Ioshus (disp) 14:36, 20 Maii 2007 (UTC)

## [recensere] Babel/Babylon

"Babel", non "Babylon"? -- Alexander Gerascenco 06:56, 16 Martii 2006 (UTC)

  apud meta, est Babel, Babylon est locus pro interpretibus translationibusque.--Ioshus Rocchio 13:38, 16 Martii 2006 (UTC)
    Si non erro, in "meta", quae Anglice scripta est, "Babel" est versio utanda, quia verbum pro "Babylon" in translatione Anglica Bibliae est. Sed in Vulgata urbs illa "Babylon" nominata est. "Babylon" pro "Babel" hic propono etiam quia, e.g., in Vicipediis Russica et Ucrainica "Babel" Vicipaediae Anglicae tamquam urbs Babylon apellatur: "Вавилон", "Вавілон". -- Alexander Gerascenco 17:19, 16 Martii 2006 (UTC)
      "Бабилон" significan? Vere, mihi non magnum importat quod nomen huic paginae sit, sed valde necesse est inter "Babel" et "Babylon" sicut meta. Si vis haec pagina, quae apud meta appellatur "Babel", appellari "Babylon", quid est quod suggeres pro pagina quae apud meta appellatur Babylon?--Ioshus Rocchio 01:02, 17 Martii 2006 (UTC)
        Erravi: "Babel" versio utanda est... In Vulgata verbum illud unice hic inveni: "Et idcircum vocatum est nomen eius Babel quia ibi confusum est labium universae terrae" (Genesis 11:9). Ergo, "Babel", non "Babylon" (quod verbum urbem significat), latine pro confusione labium universae terrae utanda est. -- Alexander Gerascenco 02:17, 17 Martii 2006 (UTC)

## [recensere] vexilia

Fortasse quaedam harum linguarum vexlillia meliora requirat, pro yiddish, latina, aut aliis linguis. Etiam, peto aliquem qui vicipotens est: moenias inscribe circum vexillia ne russicum et iaponicum pro exemplo misceant cum alba paginae. Gratias.

## [recensere] Formula Linguae Anglicae – Categoria en-5

Cur categoria en-5 creatus est? Professio aliqua mensuram facultatis communicandae non indicat. Itaque categoria illa inutilis ineptusque est et etiam confusionem creare posset. Nam quid esset distinctio inter en-4 et en-5? Quid si aliquis non modo quasi native aut qualiscumque in lingua Anglica communicare potest sed etiam professio sua hac coniunctus est?
Praeterea nusquam in alias Vicipaedias est categoria en-5.
Christian Kotnik 18:10, 26 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

  Being a native speaker does not mean that someone knows the backgrounds of his language. I think level 5 is for native speakers who have an extra training in a language or in linguistics, maybe on an academic level or it is for people who are professional writers. There are such templates in other Wikipedias, e. g. en:template:User en-5 or en:template:User de-5. I have copied this template from the English Wikipedia since a user here has it on his user page. Level 4 seems to be for people who can speak a foreign language at the level of a native speaker. My opinion about this level 5 template: It does not hurt. ;-) --Roland2 18:45, 26 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

## [recensere] Flags for French

I will put this in English so there is no mistake in what I mean. Louisiana has a full right to be represented with its flag for the french language. We have almost 250,000 Native French speakers in Louisiana. Most of these speakers live in Acadiana but if you think the area is too small them fine, I will list the whole state. The Louisiana Constitution article 12 section 4 backs me up on my claim as well as Revised Statute 25 secion 651 and Revised Statute RS 17:272 and RS 48:2001 and RS 17:3382 and RS 43:204 and RS 49:170.3 and most importantly RS 1:51 which establishes French as the official language of Louisiana as well as numerous other places in different legal codes that I could site. Also, according to Louisiana Law, Louisiana is an independent soviernty that has full diplomatic relations with France and Le Francophone per the Louisiana Purchase document. Personally I feel that the Acadiana flag would be more apropriate considering RS 48:2001 and Louisiana House Concurrent Resolution No. 496 but if you want to fight me on everything then I have no problem listing Louisiana as a whole. I will also mention that Louisiana even has an agency for regulating French in Louisiana and has had it since 1968. Thank you. --Billiot 16:48, 5 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)

  Sigh...as I said on your disputatio page, there are 41 countries where french is the official language (en:List_of_countries_where_French_is_an_official_language). In the list of 31 places where french is spoken most, English isn't even on the list. As far as America goes, there are a good 4 states with large French speaking populations. As I said in your disputatio page, by your logic, as a reductio ad absurdum surely we should list all of these others flags as well.
  Why is your tone so combative, I have to ask? No one is saying anything about Louisiana or Acadiana, just that the flag itself isn't the best for representing the French language. First for the reasons I listed above, but beyond that: In order to represent something, people have to recognize it. Surely the French and Canadian flags are recognizable, but I confess, I've lived in America 24 years, and even travelled to your state, but the flag I did and do not recognize. How will this, to someone living in Turkey for example, represent a language? The person will be too busy wondering what it is and not what it represents.--Ioshus (disp) 14:25, 6 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)

## [recensere] maybe...

...the problem is that we have already overrepresented certain languages, so the temptation is there to overrepresent others. To help this I will simplify: English will only have the flag of England, German only the flag of Germany, Portuguese only the flag of Portugal, and French only the flag of France. We kind of need two flags for Yiddish, I think. This leaves us to Latin. I think an eagle standard might be best, or that Romulus/Remus image might just suffice. What do other people think?--Ioshus (disp) 14:41, 6 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)

  I think it to be fair to list only the country of Origin of a language as long as it does not imply that the country of origin is superior in language ability to other countries of the same langage. French Speakers in Louisiana do have a hard enough time as it is but we are definatly not going away. On another note, since The Vatican City State still uses Latin Officially, regardless of other objections you can make, that means that it is the only country in the current political environment that does so and I feel therefore that the Vatican Flag should be shown for the Language of Latin. I don't see how you can object to that on anything but religous grounds and that is beyond the scope of the decision making power here at Wikipedia. Several Dictionaries of Latin after all do in fact use the Vatican flag on the cover and give bits of information on visiting the Vatican as a Country. As an alternative, if you really feel that the Vatican just can't be listed, and again I don't see any realy objection other then religious, then I suggest we use the current city flag of the city of Rome. This would be a weak compromise but they still officially use SPQR and maybe you think that is enough. Showing the statue gives the impression that we are only here to promote the study of Classical Pre Christian Latin and to be fair that is definatly Latin but so is all the other Latin that came after and is still spoken to the present day. A Language is a tool, heavely linkes to cultural identity, but a tool non the less that can be spoken and understood by more then just the Ancient Romans.--Billiot 06:20, 20 Maii 2007 (UTC)
    The city flag of Rome is fine for me. We are not here to promote only the study of pre-Christian Latin, but we are certainly here to write in it. saeculum non seclum, etc. It has even been discussed that we get rid of all the flags. That's fine with me, too. I don't want there to be controversy and fighting over something as stupid as how to represent the languages we speak.--Ioshus (disp) 14:33, 20 Maii 2007 (UTC)
      And actually, to correct you slightly, Finland's writings to and in the EU are in Latin, so the Vatican is not the only political environment that uses Latin.--Ioshus (disp) 14:35, 20 Maii 2007 (UTC)

I did not know about Finnland using Latin to communicate with the EU. I did know that they have the daily news audio files for download in Latin. Switzerland uses Latin on their money but I think several other countries do as well. I think the Flags are good in general as long as they don't cause fighting. One think I will note is that all official laws of the Vatican must be written in Latin in order to be considered valid. All court cases likewise use Latin documentation but the language spoken at procedings are in whatever language will be understood. There is also a law in the Vatican that upholds Italian Law but this law that upholds the laws of Italy is written in Latin. The pope recently made statements wherein he expressed a desire to have Latin promoted not just as the lanuage of the Church but as also as the language of common European hearitage and culture. Some may disagree with this but I wouldn't. With that in mind and with the fact that Finnland uses Latin to communicate with the EU I would like to ask if Latin is in any copacity used in the Eu. If so I could be a good idea just to use the EU flag as long as it didn't give the wrong impression. We also could make our own custom flag just for use on Vikipedia, maybe a red background with gold letters that just say LATINA, or Latina CIRCUM MUNDA. The image of Romulus and Remus is ok but I really think something better could be used.--Billiot 13:26, 3 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

  I replaced it with the city flag of Rome. I think this may be the most neutral method, until we come up with a better system of representation. Perhaps we should just go to text.
  I think that is a very good thing that the Pope is trying to spread Latin around Europe. Maybe soon there will be an international language flag for it, and we won't even need this discussion in the first place.--Ioshus (disp) 15:01, 3 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

To look at the page now I think it does look better you use a flag then an image for Latin. I just fits in better in my opinion. Now if we can just fix the boarder problem so Japan stops looking like just a red dot form a pirate movie.--Billiot 17:34, 4 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

I notice that for ancient Greek there are the modern flags for Greece and I think Crete. I think the last official government to use this form of the language was the Byzintine empire. I don't mind the modern flags mind you but the byzintine flag is still flown over a lot of churches in Greece. It is the yellow one with the two headed eagle that is similar to the image on Russiam passports. What is your opintion of using this flag?--Billiot 17:43, 4 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

  It's actually the flag of Athens. Most of the Greek studied is Attic.--Ioshus (disp) 18:03, 4 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

## [recensere] lingua Catalanorum

Multis hac pagella creatis linguis, Catalanorum autem deest, inter quos non pauci sumus qui latine scribere ualeamus. Potestne aliquid eam addere? Gratias plurimas ago. --Quirinus Xρυσοχαίτας 10:48, 30 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

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