Disputatio:Computatrum - Vicipaedia

# Disputatio:Computatrum

### E Vicipaedia

Instrumentum computatorium verbum correctum in lingua latina recentis est! Vide: Lexicon Recentis Latinitatis (Nexus externi) Computatrum aut computatorium non in lingua latina esse videtur.

  Lexicon Recentis Latinitatis non est solus fons linguae Latinae recentis - et mea quidem sententia ne quidem optimus. W. B. 10 Kal. Febr. 2006 20.01 UTC

## [recensere] Computatrum

Computatrum? Computatorium? Instrumentum computatorium? ...

1. Isn't this just like the English word computer? Taken from the verb computare?
2. Doesn't it look silly to have such long words for something of such common usage?

My point is, I think it looks rather silly to "import" most Latin words from English, which can (like in this case) make them waaay too long. Like in Icelandic- when the computer first came, it was called tölva (tala (number) + völva (seeing stone)) and now everybody uses that word, it's short and rather original. I've noticed a myriad of similarities between Latin and Icelandic such as; declensions, word order; sentence-forming and simular words (e.g. Icelandic: Mús = Latin: Mus; Icelandic: penni (pen) = Latin: penna (feather, wing); Icelandic: Múr = Latin: Murus) so it might make sense to 'combine' words to make neologisms in Latin, instead of stealing them from English. I know Wikipedia's job is NOT to make neologisms, but most of these words (Instrumentum computatorium?? Wtf?) are not words any sane person would use in an every day conversation (well, what sane person learns latin? ;]). Maybe even calling it an abacus? --BiT 16:14, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

  English & Icelandic are Germanic languages, similarly related to Latin (and other Italic languages), except that English has more borrowed Latin-derived words, both from Latin itself and from Latin's descendants, especially French. Like Icelandic, we retain a Germanic word for your mús (i.e., the word mouse), but we also have the adjective murine 'of or relating to mice', taken from Latin in the seventeenth century. ¶ I too deplore the long word(s) for 'computer' ; but if we don't have a better suggestion, we have to accept it. One trusts that, if we write & speak Latin enough, a short form will emerge. IacobusAmor 17:43, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

    I grant your point on instrumentum computatorium, but isn't computatrum just one more syllable than the english? What's so unwieldly about that?--Ioshus (disp) 17:44, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
      Actually, it's even briefer than that: since the "u" is short, rapid pronunciation approximates three syllables: comp'tātrum! and if we nasalize the "m," it feels even briefer! IacobusAmor 18:18, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
        Alright! I get your point- it's not that long =] --BiT 18:39, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

- It is indeed the English word Computer. Also, the Danish, German, Spanish, Italian, Japanese etc. word. Some prefer to use the French-like ordinatrum (actually most people who use that word use it interchangeably with computatrum.)
- Computatrum or even Computatorium are not that long. As for instrumentum computatorium, well that comes from the Lexicon Recentis Latinitatis of the Vatican. Vatican Latinists have a reputation for expressing things by lengthy circumlocutions, in order to avoid non-classical words. But note that you woudn't have to say instrumentum computatorium everytime you mentioend the thing: if the context was clear you could presumably say just computatorium, or possibly even just instrumentum.
- Tölva is a famous example, at least among the linguistically minded, but portmanteaux are not really a very Latin way to coin words (though it could be argued tölva is not a portmanteau, but a new adaptation of a very rare morphological fomration--but I guess so is computatrum: see my last point, below.)
- I like that you find parallels between Icelandic and Latin, as these are useful for learners, and both languages are incredibly awesome. However, I would not call these similarities shocking or decisive:
  - Declensions are also found in German, Gothic, Sanskrit, Greek, Hittite, Lithuanian , and hell, Finnish, Esthonian, etc. etc. etc.
  - The *mus root is found in practically every Indo-European language family: Latin mus, Greek μῦς, Sanskrit muṣ, Farsi موش mūš, and a dozen others.
  - If I'm am not mistaken, Múr will be a loanword directly from Latin. Compare the German Mauer, and the obsolete English word mure, bot of which definitely are.
- I sometimes use abacus to mean "cash register", actually, but I don't think anyone else does. The problem with abacus is that it doesn't only mean a machine that counts, but also a "counter" in the other sense. Besides, of course, abaci are more like calculators than computers, in that they are not programable.
- I resisted computatrum for a long time, because words in -trum are not actually overwhelmingly common, and the only one of them I can find that represents a machine not known since the dawn of Italic history is haustrum "bilge pump." But SO many people now say computatrum that it seems pointless to try to fight it. The shortness compared to computatorium is an advantage, but to my mind not in the simplex form (computatorium isn't that much longer), so much as in the adjective: I find it very convenient to be able to say computatralis. In any case, if I can get over my dislike of computatrum then so can you :P

--Iustinus 17:50, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

  Ok, point taken. :P I was just thinking, that one of the biggest part of "live" languages is that there are words that are "correct" and then words that people colloquially use (and I do realize that "computatrum" isn't such a long word). Like telephone and phone and... it really is hard to find examples when you need them isn't it? Ofcourse the word "tölva" could be used in Latin couldn't it =]

    Mea tolva habet magna memoria.

  Sounds horrible, never mind that.. ^_^; --BiT 18:26, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
    Heheh, actually that could be cute in some situations. And in fact there are definitely "registers" as far as modern spoken Latin is concerned: there are some words people use when in conversation, which they woudln't consider appropriate for writing. This is especially true when speaking on the fly, without a dictionary ;) --Iustinus 18:30, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
      The only hard part, if one were to find a more colloquial version of computatrum (compus?), is how to "get it out there". I'm sure it wouldn't be allowed on Vikipaedia, because it's an un-sourced neologism? --BiT 18:35, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
        You could try the Grex Latine Loquentium (currently a red link, but a much needed article), but I don't think compus would fly. Honestly, when I'm at a Conventiculum and I need a shorter word for "computer" "car" "GPS" or just about any device, I say machina, and context usually makes it clear which machine I mean ;) --Iustinus 18:53, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
          Aww, you don't like copus? --BiT 19:03, 1 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

Receptum de "http://la.wikipedia.org../../../c/o/m/Disputatio%7EComputatrum_6210.html"

##### Views

- Res
- Disputatio
- Emendatio recentissima

##### communitas

- Invitatio
- Taberna
- Adiutatum
- Donationes

##### Quaerere